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June 4, 2024 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
46:00
20240604_charlamagne-tha-god-trump-diddy-caitlin-clark
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Time Text
Privilege and Political Nuance 00:02:49
I get excited to be on with you, man, just because I know we're going to have some lively conversations.
We're seeing right now, and there is a way that privileged white males who used to be president are treated.
A lot of everyday people aren't going to feel sorry for, you know, for him to be screaming that, you know, he's being treated so unfairly.
And it's like, not necessarily.
But to pick you up on that, Charlemagne, that's why I asked you, is it good for America?
Have you decided yet who you're going to vote for?
Yeah.
Would you like to share it with me?
I've never been to a Diddy Pardon.
Trump was trying to hide things.
B. Diddy was trying to hide things too.
I think race is a factor in Caitlin Clark.
But Piers, you have to admit, whenever you see somebody excelling in a field that that race doesn't usually excel in, you know, it is heightened.
He's a media mogul, a best-selling author and star host of The Breakfast Club, self-styled as the most dangerous morning show in the world.
And having been on it, I can confirm it is pretty dangerous.
In a world of spin and nonsense, Charlemagne the God deals in straight talking facts.
And his new book, Get Honest or Die Lying, is billed as an antidote to small talk from small minds.
So once again, Charlemagne the God is uncensored.
Charlemagne, great to see you.
Piers, what's up, man?
Good to see you again, too, man.
I love an early plug.
I love it being bullshit.
A little shameless self-promotion.
You know, got to do that on a big plan.
Well, you know me.
I'm all in for shameless self-promotion.
And what I loved about the book, it said it critiques the prevalence of superficial conversations and advocates for deeper, more meaningful dialogues to address societal divisions and personal unhappiness.
Because I totally agree with you.
I think social media has made everyone talk and think and debate in sound bites.
We've lost that ability to do what I did with you when I came on your brilliant breakfast show in New York.
We just had time.
You know, we had a 90-minute conversation.
We could talk about stuff with nuance, with layers.
And it seems that we've lost that ability.
People have kind of forgotten how to have longer conversation.
Yeah, not only have we lost that ability, we're putting everything on the same scale.
And, you know, when I talk about small talk, I'm saying how we take a lot of these, you know, minor issues and we make them these big, these big macro issues.
We take these small things and make them, you know, big things.
So when the actual big things come across our desk or, you know, the big things are up for discussion.
We don't even know how to talk about them if we talk about them at all, because everything is literally on the same scale.
So things that are small are held to the same level of, you know, validity as, you know, things that are that are big.
One thing I was struck by, I watched you do an interview with CNN, I think, a few days ago.
The Witch Hunt Narrative 00:14:47
And I could see that you were kind of irritated by constantly being kind of, I guess in your eyes, wheeled out as a spokesman for all black people in America because of your great influence from the show and so on.
I totally got that.
It's like, why should your skin color dictate whether you're booked to do an interview to talk about society or issues or whatever?
Tell me a little bit more about how that makes you feel when you feel that way.
Well, you're a good reader of people, you know, because that's exactly how I felt in that moment.
Because I'm like, you know, black people are not monolithic.
And, you know, when you bring me on a show and ask me what all black people think, I could not tell you.
I could only tell you, you know, what I think.
And it's a little frustrating too, because, you know, in America, you know, they keep asking about the black vote, the black vote in regards to Biden.
But when you look at the polls, you know, he's losing the young vote.
He's losing the Latino vote.
Like there's a lot of people that are that are that are down on Biden right now.
So I don't understand why it keeps coming back through a black thing, a black thing, a black thing.
I completely agree.
And it must be, I mean, I was trying to think what it'd be like if I get booked only to talk about issues about white people.
How very quickly, how annoying I would find that.
And so I get it.
I mean, that isn't going to happen because it doesn't happen to white people that way.
But it's an interesting thing to actually see that you were kind of bristling.
I watched it.
I thought, yeah, I get that.
I get it.
There's a guy here in America, man.
His name is Tim Ryan.
He's a good guy.
Yeah, I know Tim, yeah.
Yeah, and you know, Tim has this phrase called the exhausted majority.
And he said, most people in America are the exhausted majority.
So I don't care whether I'm black.
I don't care whether I'm white, Democrat, Republican.
Most people are just exhausted at what's happening in our political system right now.
And I represent one of them.
Well, yeah, and I think you're absolutely not alone.
And let's talk, you know, immediately about what happened in the last week.
It is, listen, I'm in the UK at the moment.
Across the pond, there's a kind of wonderment and shock about what is happening to the great superpower of the world when you have one candidate who can barely string a sentence together and the other candidate facing all these criminal indictments and actually being convicted now of being a felon.
And putting aside the debate about whether that is fair or not fair, and I'll come to that with you.
But just the fact that these are the two candidates that America has to choose from in November seems staggering to people.
Yeah, and I represent the one in four Americans who have unfavorable views about both of them.
So it's like, you know, when you see me on a show like The View and I say something like, yo, both of these, you know, both of these candidates are trash.
I truly mean that.
You know, one of them, one of them, like, you know, has all of these criminal charges.
One of them led an attempted coup with his country.
One of them said we need to terminate, you know, the Constitution to overthrow the results of an election.
You know, that was, you know, to overturn the results of an election.
That was Donald Trump.
And then, you know, the other one is just uninspiring.
You know, the other one can't even deliver the proper messaging about the things, you know, that him and his administration have done.
And, you know, we spend so much time here in America talking about how bad Trump is, especially the left media.
They talk about how bad Trump is.
And they're always on their social media and on their platforms talking about how bad he is, but they're never talking about how, they're never talking about the things that they say President Biden has done.
And then they wonder why people ask those questions.
They wonder why people say, well, what is Joe Biden done?
You know, what is Kamala Harris doing?
We would know if more of y'all would spend more time telling us about them as opposed to just talking, you know, telling us how bad Trump is.
I totally agree.
Again, because there's a kind of this Trump derangement syndrome is a real thing.
I see it in people where they're so fixated in hating Trump and everything about him and doing it 24-7.
They forget that there's a country currently being run by Democrats who are making decisions that are directly impacting on people's lives.
I thought it's interesting the dynamic.
You mentioned the view.
I want to play a clip.
This is where effectively the host try and bully you to endorse Biden.
Take a look.
I've seen y'all do this on the view before.
I saw y'all do this to Killer Mike when he was on the view.
And Killer Mike literally sat here and said, hey, you know, I supported Keisha Lance Bottoms.
I supported Ralph Warnock.
I supported John Osoff, right, in Georgia.
He said, you should support the people that I've supported.
You should support the person who the people I've supported are supporting.
Okay.
That's y'all's opportunity to say, well, clearly he's talking about President Biden.
Why do y'all need us to say this if we don't feel comfortable saying it?
No, no, it's not that we need you to say it.
I think other folks need to hear because, you know, one of the things you, I'm sorry, I just jumped to you.
I'm sorry.
But one of the things that we've been talking about is the fact that getting facts out through the media has been very, seems to be very difficult.
I feel like I dispute some facts.
Yeah, yes, but we need you to do it on that show.
Well, I think, well, the reality is I think both candidates are trash.
So because I'm, but I am going to vote in November and I'm going to vote in my best interest and I'm going to vote who I think can preserve democracy.
So if I think both candidates are trash and I don't feel like endorsing one, would you rather me endorse an individual or endorse the fact that, hey, we need to go out here and protect democracy?
What was fascinating, Charlemagne, was their stunned reaction.
They couldn't really deal with this.
It was a kind of presumption by them that you would, obviously you would vote for Biden.
And when you said, actually, I think both candidates are trash, they were sort of shocked.
They didn't know what to say.
And I've watched the view a few times and it's so ridiculously partisan now.
You know, I watched Joy Beha reacting to the Trump conviction and saying she actually got a leak, she said, and tittered away.
And I was like, wow.
What part of you thinks that that is a smart way to deal with what is going on right now?
To look like you're so partisan, so overexcited by anything that's damaging to Trump that you lose all kind of reasonable ability to assess and analyze the big picture about American politics and where the country is.
Yeah, and I don't like the assumption that, you know, just because I don't want to endorse, you know, means I'm not voting.
And, you know, it goes back to my, it goes back to what I keep saying about the left really does not know how to push narratives in any way, shape, or form.
Because, you know, I was on CNN this weekend and I literally was talking about a chapter in my book called The Language of Politics is Dead.
And I give credit to Donald Trump for killing the language of politics.
Like he's made it to where politicians, they don't have to be perfect.
They don't always have to say the right thing.
And they can actually say what they truly feel if they choose to.
You know, Fox News, I was on CNN.
Fox News took that clip and their headline was, Charlemagne Nagard praises Donald Trump for killing the language of politics.
That's just them pushing the narrative that they want to push.
I didn't praise him.
But in a way, I understand why they did that because in a way, you're kind of praising him.
What you're acknowledging is that Trump's appeal, unless I don't want to speak for you, you can tell me, but it seems to me what you were saying was Trump's appeal comes from the fact he's a straight talker.
You may not like what he's saying, but he sounds authentic and he doesn't sound like a normal, robotic, pre-planned, pre-rehearsed politician.
Oh, I say it all the time.
I said that, you know, somebody like Donald Trump and a lot of conservatives in general, especially the MAGA ones, they are more sincere about their lies than Democrats are about their truth.
So you can hear a conservative say something that you know is not true, but it'll sound sincere.
And you can hear a Democrat say something that possibly is true, but they don't sound like, you know, they don't sound sincere about it in any way, shape, or form.
Did you feel the Donald Trump conviction was a good moment for America?
I mean, listen, man, we say nobody is above the law, right?
So, I mean, if, you know, if charges are brought up against somebody and, you know, they go through their due process, they go to court and they're found guilty.
You know, I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing because nobody is, you know, above the law.
But what I think is going to happen now is you're going to see a lot of tit for tat of people now that, you know, now that, you know, they've made it to where I can totally see them doing political, you know, retaliation in the courts.
If I'm not mistaken, Hunter Biden's, you know, the jury selection begins in his trial today.
So how do you know Hunter Biden is going to get a fair trial?
You know, we just had, you know, Governor Josh Shapiro here, and he told us that he sued Donald Trump 43 times.
And in return, Donald Trump sued the state of Pennsylvania, you know, 43 times.
So, I mean, that's just, I don't want to see that in our political system.
I don't want to see people just weaponizing the courts and weaponizing the justice system and just going after each other.
But I think that's what you're going to see.
Yeah, I mean, my issue with it is I agree no one should be above the law, but nor should the law be twisted to just go after one person like Trump.
I mean, there's no other businessman in New York who would have had what was a state misdemeanor offense at worst upgraded to a felony in the way that Alvin Bragg did, because he's politically motivated in most people's estimation.
I think he is.
He's a Democrat.
He makes no bones.
He wanted to take down Donald Trump.
But by escalating a state misdemeanor to a felony in the way that he did, he wasn't actually treating Trump fairly in the way that the law would normally treat someone.
So I think in a way, it's not that Trump felt he was above the law.
If he was just entitled to the same treatment in U.S. law as every other business guy in New York, he would not have had to face felony charges.
That's the reality.
It got twisted and morphed up to be something a lot more serious than it actually was.
In the end, he had a fling with a porn star nearly 20 years ago, one night stand, which he denies, but I think it's pretty clear he did.
And here we are, 20 years later, and he's running for president in 2016, and he wants to hide this information like a lot of famous people do when people make allegations about them.
And he pays her off.
And then because he shovels a bit of paperwork in his business, suddenly he's now facing imprisonment.
And I just felt...
We know he's not going to see no prison, but I mean, you know, we can't just, if it's illegal, it's illegal, Peter.
And if you get caught, then you got to deal with the consequences of those actions.
You know, I'm not, I'm not.
Yeah, but should an American president, yeah, but my point is this.
If they were taking an American president to court over an illegal drone program that killed thousands of innocent people, if they were doing it over major corruption involving government funds that were being funneled to a president and his family, you know, something of that order, then, okay, I get it, right?
But to do it to Trump over a payment which at $150,000 was about a fifth or a quarter of the fifth of the amount that Bill Clinton paid to pay off Paula Jones, who accused him of sexual harassment.
And he was president at the time, unlike Trump.
And yet Bill Clinton never got dragged through criminal courts because he didn't shuffle a bit of paperwork to pay it.
So yeah, technically it was a crime.
I don't think anyone disputes that the jury made the right decision when they had to adjudicate on this.
But my question is, should this ever have come to court?
Some of the other cases that Trump's involved with are infinitely more serious.
You know, his involvement in January 6th, the documents that were found at Mer-a-Lago and shuffled around, the Georgia phone call and so on.
They're all more serious.
But to take a president of the United States to the criminal court in election year, depriving him of his right to campaign, all I thought was whatever happens here, Trump tried stolen election last time wrongly without any evidence.
But this time he's going to have a very good case.
If he loses this election by a marginal amount, which is quite likely one of the wins or loses by a marginal amount, he's just going to say this got stolen all over again.
By putting me through the courts for two months, preventing me from campaigning over a stupid little story involving a fling 20 years ago, they have stopped me winning the election.
And he never, actually, I think probably a lot more people agreeing with him than he did last time.
Yeah, he was going to say that regardless.
I don't know how much sympathy he's going to get, though, because, you know, when you are a powerful person, when you've been a person who's been as wealthy as long as Donald Trump, you know, a lot of everyday people aren't going to feel sorry for you because there's everyday people who get, you know, jammed up in the justice system and get, you know, sentenced to jail for, you know, lesser crimes than what Trump just got convicted for.
So I don't think nobody's going to feel sorry for him in that case.
And then, you know, and if it was a political move, hey, it was a brilliant political move because I read this morning, or I read over the weekend that 49% of independents think Trump should drop out, you know, after the convictions.
You know, it's easier to say this is a witch hunt, this is a witch hunt, this is a witch hunt, you know, when you haven't been convicted.
And that was one of my concerns.
I said that last week.
I was like, yo, if Donald Trump, before the verdict came in, I was like, yo, if he gets found not guilty on this, it makes everything across the board look like a witch hunt.
It makes what's, you know, going on in Florida, what's going on in Georgia with the election case.
It makes all of that look, makes the January 6th and Rex stuff.
It makes everything look like a witch hunt.
If he was found not guilty on these 34 counts, it wouldn't even matter that it was just some Thormy Daniels porn star stuff.
It would just make his declaration that all of this is a witch hunt stronger.
So the fact that he was convicted, I think it does change the minds of a lot of people.
I think he has his die-hard supporters who are going to show up for him regardless.
But when you look at those independents and they're like 49% of them say they think Trump should drop out after the conviction, that's, I mean, that was a good political move if it was a political move.
Well, I said on the flip side, he's raised nearly $60 million since he was convicted, smashing all records.
He's galvanized his base massively.
The independents are very important.
There's no question.
But I'm now going to ask you a question, which will fly completely in the face of what I was talking to you earlier about only asking you to represent the black community.
I don't mean it like that, but there'll be a lot of black Americans who will share Trump's view about the justice system being particularly unfair to members of the African-American community in America.
Justice System Unfairness 00:15:19
So is Trump not entitled to say, look, on this occasion, the justice system was deliberately skewed to nail me and was therefore used unfairly?
Yeah, I highly disagree about, you know, that narrative that a lot of black people are gravitating towards Trump because, you know, Trump is being targeted by the justice system or, you know, now he's, you know, been convicted of crimes.
I push back on that.
Yeah, I just don't agree with that because when you look at what happened with Trump, like people, there's a two-tier justice system in America.
We know that.
We know that there's a way, you know, that black people are treated.
And we know that there's a way, you know, white people are treated.
But then there's another third tier that we're seeing right now.
And there is a way that privileged white males who used to be president are treated.
Because in the New York case, you never saw a mugshot.
You never saw Donald Trump and any handcuffs.
Piers, you tell me where that happens.
Who does that happen to in America?
There's rich people.
We have seen a Trump mugshot.
In Georgia, but not in the New York case.
So, you know, for him to be screaming that, you know, he's being treated so unfairly.
And it's like, not necessarily.
34 counts and you get to walk out of a courtroom.
Well, the 34 counts only, I would say that, and I'm only playing devil's advocate here, but I would say 34 counts are all on the same thing.
Right.
So it sounded a lot worse than it was.
It was all about the same falsifying of business records.
I think the unfairness point really is, would any other businessman have had that misdemeanor upgraded to a felony?
I don't think they would.
So that's where it looks to me like a Democrat motivated Alvin Bragg, who is a Democrat and was on record of saying, I want to take down Trump.
He ran on that.
He ran on that.
Right.
So he's made no secret of what he wants to do.
And he's done something with this misdemeanor, which has not been done with other people.
But this is what I tell people, Piers.
Alvin Bragg ran on that people can't get you if you don't give them nothing to get.
So clearly, you know, Trump has done enough to where they were able to bring charges against him and now have him convicted in a court of law.
Like, we can sit here and debate whether that's right or wrong, but the only reason we would say it's wrong is because he's a president and we think that he should have a different level of privilege than everybody else.
Well, actually, I do think they should.
I actually do.
Yeah, because I don't think any president in America, particularly now, could possibly get a fair trial.
I don't care what people say about that jury.
There will have been people in there who were not being entirely honest about what they really feel about Trump.
I'm sure of it.
Because how could you not have extreme views about Trump either way?
Oh, I agree with that.
That I agree with you.
I've been saying that from day one.
It's impossible for somebody like Donald Trump to get judged by a jury of his peers, a jury that's not biased.
And it would be for Biden.
It would be, if Biden was being prosecuted in a criminal court in Texas, it would be exactly the same issue.
I would feel exactly the same way.
It's just, I just don't think any American president can possibly get a fair trial of a jury of so-called peers.
They're not peers.
He's the president of the United States.
He's the most powerful person in the country.
He's one of only 46 people to hold that office.
Of course, this jury has nothing in connection with Trump on that level.
So I just felt like from the start, the whole principle of dragging him through a courtroom over something so relatively trivial, I felt was always destined to make America a more divided country, which it already is.
What do you think about the other charges?
Do you think the other charges are fair?
Well, I think he certainly has responsibility for what happened on January the 6th, and I think that was serious and people died.
And that is a very serious situation.
I think the storing of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago was wrong.
And I think it's serious for any president to do that.
But I also know Joe Biden was found with a lot of documents at his house in Delaware.
And on the Georgia phone call, it comes down to your interpretation of the phone call.
Trump will have a view about what he meant when he said, I need to find these extra votes.
Other people will take another view.
And again, it comes down to, you know, if that's a jury trial, is it really going to be in Georgia a fair trial for Donald Trump?
Are those 12 people are so unimpeachable that they can rise above any personal feelings for Trump?
I very much doubt it.
He's probably the most famous person and notorious person in the history of planet Earth.
And the idea he can be in a courtroom anywhere in America and get a fair shake is, I think, for the birds.
I agree.
But then, I mean, so what do you do?
Like, how do you hold people like that accountable?
You know, like America could be a good person.
I think you go through impeachment.
You go through the impeachment process.
They've done that twice.
They did that twice.
I know.
But that's all you're left with.
I mean, look at Bill Clinton.
You know, he was impeached over Monica Lewinsky and lying to the American people.
You know, a lot of presidents get impeached for stuff.
I mean, it is normally the mechanics that you use, but nobody thought of dragging Clinton through a criminal court for any of the stuff with either Monica Lewinsky or Paula or Paula Jones.
Yeah, that's true, too.
I mean, it's so interesting because I think out of all of the cases, right, you know, the election interference in Georgia trying to find the extra votes.
And I think the insurrection are the strongest ones.
Because even if you bring up the Mar-a-Lago case to what you just did, the first thing people will say was, well, hey, President Biden had documents in his house too.
Right.
And then now you're trying to figure out, well, what document is what?
Was it the nuclear code?
Was it something simple?
So people would dismiss that one.
I think the same thing with the New York and with the Stormy Daniels.
People will be like, man, that's what he's getting convicted for.
Right, so so it's like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, because I think you would have the same reaction if he was in court right now in Georgia and they found him guilty of trying to find extra votes.
It would be the same reaction totally agree from the American president.
But that is my problem with that's my problem with taking presidents through the regular criminal system.
I don't think you can.
I just don't think it goes back to what I and it goes back to this, right?
And I'm not trying to plug my book, but it's true.
What I said about everybody putting things on the same scale, yeah, right?
Like all four of those charges should not be on the same scale, they should not be weighted the same.
Like, you know, two of those things, you know, to me are much heavier than the other two.
But should Barack Obama be taken through criminal courts for running drone programs that killed lots of innocent people?
Oh man, if you if you do that, then you're gonna have to lock up every single person.
Okay, but to pick you up on that, Charlemagne, your argument against doing that is you then have to do it for everybody else, right?
But Trump wasn't afforded that logic with this prosecution.
Well, we're in a new day and age, and you know, I guess this is how it's gonna be moving forward.
Yeah.
And honestly, I don't know if we want that.
Like, you know, there's been people right now that's calling, you know, for if the federal cases against Trump happen, they're calling for Joe Biden to pardon Trump.
You know, I don't know, Piers.
Like, you know, we're about to see some things in America that we've never ever seen before, you know, moving forward.
And that's why I asked you, is it good for America?
And I think probably you kind of agree with me that ultimately, I'm not sure any of this is good for America.
Looking at it from outside America at the moment, I love America.
I don't know.
I love Americans, but watching what is happening here is really unsettling.
It feels like a kind of banana republic, you know, like sort of wild, corrupt, you know, South American regime.
It's like, it doesn't feel like America.
Yeah, but the only reason I say I don't know is because if I say, if I say, no, this isn't good for America because of what happened in New York, what about when a president, you know, does things like attempts to lead an insurrection of this country?
Right.
You know, what about the president does things like tries to overthrow the results of an election?
You know, like what?
Those are things that I feel like should be punished because none of that is constitutional.
So, you know, for me to say, hey, this isn't right, I can't say that because if I say that about this, and that means even the bigger things that he's accused of, I got to dismiss those too.
And I don't necessarily agree with dismissing those.
Just play your clip.
This is from your last interview with me when I asked you about Trump.
Listen to this.
I need a name, Charlemagne.
Is he winnable?
I really don't know.
You got to give me a name.
Who's going to win?
Biden v. Trump.
It's not Dean Phillips.
It's not going to be Dean.
I really, truly don't know if I had to say right now, I would say Donald Trump.
Wow.
There we go.
The casting vote.
Charlemagne the God, the man with his finger on the pulse of America.
Trump.
Maybe.
But I don't know.
It's a long time in the middle.
And that's what's so scary about it.
So I'll ask you the same question post-conviction.
Do you still think this is not about whether you want him to win, but do you still think Trump will win?
I truly, really don't know now.
And I'll tell you why.
I think, you know, like most elections in America, it comes down to the bases.
And, you know, right now, Donald Trump's base is very energized, you know, behind, you know, this conviction.
Like, you know, last week in New York City, they had Fifth Avenue blocked off.
Guy was walking around Fifth Avenue with an F Joe Biden sign.
And then there was all of these, a bunch of F Joe Biden signs, you know, up and down, up and down the block.
And on the flip side, you know, a lot of President Biden's base, you know, doesn't seem too energized, you know, by him right now.
I mean, especially when you look at, you know, you look at, you know, the Muslims in Michigan, you know, who are mad over, you know, what's happening in Gaza.
You know, if they sit out, you know, if they sit out en masse, it could be a real problem, you know, for President Biden.
But then on the flip side of that, you go and, like I said earlier, the 49% of independents who, you know, think Trump should drop out.
So literally right now, I think it's going to come down to who can energize their base the most.
Who can make those die-hard constituents come out in droves in November?
And I don't know.
I really don't know who that's going to be.
Have you decided yet who you're going to vote for?
Have I decided yet who I'm going to vote for?
Yeah.
I believe so.
Would you like to share it with me?
No.
Not at all.
But, you know, I tell everybody, this is what I do with my listeners.
I put all the facts as I know them on the table.
I bring on people who, you know, want to cheer for their respective sides.
Like I said, we had Governor Josh Shapiro in here.
He's clearly a surrogate of Joe Biden.
But then, you know, we've had, you know, people like Candace Owens in here and, you know, different conservatives like Vivek Ramaswamy.
That's why I love your show.
Yeah.
So it's like, I just want everybody to get all the information and make their own decisions.
We've had third-party candidates in here.
We've had RFK Jr. here.
We've had Cornell West, Marianne Williamson.
I want to put everything on the table.
I want all my listeners to get as much information as they can about everything that's available for them to vote for, and they go make their own decisions.
The latest polls suggest that 17% of black Americans would now vote for Trump, a significant increase on either of the two last elections.
Can you understand that?
I don't believe it.
And the reason I don't believe it, a couple of months ago, it was 22%.
You know, I think all of those polls are a little bit overstated.
I think what you're, what happened, first of all, I would like to know who they're polling because I've never met anybody who's been polled.
Like my good sister, Angela Rye, she has a great podcast called the Native Land Podcast with Andrew Gillam and Tiffany Cross.
And they just literally had a discussion about that last week.
I don't know any black person who's ever been polled.
So I would like to know who they're polling.
But I think what you're experiencing right now is, like I said earlier, you have the exhausted majority.
In every presidential election year, we have this.
It's the same exact conversation.
Black people are disappointed.
Black people are fed up with the Democratic Party.
So if you're talking to Black people, some Black people in this moment, I think that's what you're getting when it comes to a lot of these polls.
Because even when you see those poll numbers, it's not because of anything that Donald Trump is doing.
I think it has to do more with what black people feel.
And like I said, I can't speak for all black people, but I'm just speaking basing this off conversations that I've had, what a lot of black people feel the Democratic Party hasn't done for them over the years, not even just this current Biden administration, just over the years.
A lot of hope, a lot of change has been promised that, you know, they just, we've never received the way we want to.
And I think that's what happens.
Whoever these people that they're polling, I think that's what you're getting.
You're getting a reaction to just years and years of disappointment in Democrats.
I don't think it necessarily has to do with anything that Donald Trump is doing or even President Biden isn't doing.
President Biden is just continuing a tradition of not doing enough for black people and black people feeling like not enough is being done for them by Democrats.
And is that feeling enhanced by what is widely accepted to be the poor performance of Carmela Harris as vice president?
I think we all at this point realize that the vice president has been handcuffed in a lot of ways.
She was being attacked, you know, by her own party.
You know, there was, you know, months ago, there was like so many stories constantly coming out.
And the stories were about how people in the Democratic Party were basically telling President Biden to watch out for Vice President Harris because she has aspirations, you know, past being vice president.
And I think, you know, because of that and because of the position that she's in, you know, it might make her fall back, you know, in a way.
But, you know, she's starting to come out a little bit more, but I still would like to see, you know, the Vice President Harris, the Kamala Harris that a lot of us, you know, know from her days in the Senate when she was really holding people's feet to the fire, man.
I'd like to see her come out and really prosecute, you know, the case against Donald Trump to the American people.
Now she has more to even be able to do that with now that he's been convicted.
And I think the biggest thing that folks should be saying about somebody like Donald Trump is like, regardless of party, right?
If you call yourself a patriot, you have to say that a lot of things he does are just not constitutional.
Like, you know, if you're calling for the determination of the Constitution to overthrow the results of an election, if you led an attempted coup of this country, at the least you have to say that's not patriotic.
So when you're out here waving your American flag or you're mad at athletes for taking a knee, right?
And you're calling that unpatriotic, then what is that what he's doing?
Consequences of Actions 00:02:46
It's a very interesting point.
I want to end a couple of totally different stories.
One is what's happening with P. Diddy.
His former security guy, Roger Bonds, came on my show last week, said he'd seen Diddy violent with multiple women.
A lot more allegations coming out all the time about it.
What do you make of what is happening with Diddy?
The same thing I make of, you know, what's happening with anybody.
You know, if you, you know, you got to deal with the consequences of your actions, period.
You can't run from yourself.
I tell people that all the time, man.
Like, you know, I'm a big proponent of mental health.
And the reason I'm a big proponent of mental health and, you know, people doing the work on themselves is because a lot of people are dealing with a lot of unhealed trauma.
They're dealing with a lot of pain and a lot of hurt.
And they end up projecting that pain and that hurt onto other people.
And, you know, that's what I think has been happening with him over the years.
I don't know him personally.
I know him from interviewing him.
You know, of course, I've had conversations with him, but I've never hung out with him.
I've never been to a Diddy party.
None of that.
Like, that's just not, you know, things that I'm interested in doing.
But I feel like, you know, he's a person who's been dealing with a lot of pain and a lot of hurt for a long time.
And, you know, it seems like he's been hurting a lot of people.
And like I said, projecting a lot of pain on folks.
And you cannot run from yourself.
I don't care who you are.
I don't care if you're P. Diddy.
I don't care if you're Donald Trump.
I don't care how rich you are.
I don't care what race you are.
You cannot run from yourself.
Eventually, you know, your BS will catch up with you.
And I mean, I think that's what we're seeing right now.
I think we're seeing a lot of his BS catching up with him.
I mean, you can't even hide.
Like you just, the same way, you know, Trump was trying to hide things.
P. Diddy was trying to hide things too by, you know, suppressing that tape.
So, I mean, you know, you can't run from yourself, Piz.
You got to deal with the consequences of your actions.
So, you know, whatever happens to him, as far as legal ramifications are concerned or, you know, jail time, he has to deal with that.
But what I would tell people is don't forget what the issue is because a lot of times we do that here in America.
We get so caught up in the celebrity that we forget what the actual issue is.
And the issue in this situation is domestic violence.
The issue in this situation is the patriarchy, because as long as you have, you know, men, especially powerful men, you know, thinking that women are their property, you know, and they can do whatever to them, you're going to see situations like, you know, the Diddy Cassie tape.
And like I said, you know, men not dealing with their unhealed trauma, you know, men not dealing with their pain, men not dealing with their hurt and projecting it onto, you know, people around them.
Those are the three issues that I think we really should be focused on because long after we're not talking about this P. Diddy and Cassie situation anymore, there's still going to be women all around the world, you know, dealing with men like that.
Domestic Violence Reality 00:09:44
So how do we get to the root of the issue?
I think we only get to the root of the issue by talking about the actual issue and not the individuals.
Another big story in the news at the moment is Caitlin Clark, biggest star at the moment in women's basketball.
She was pushed to the ground in this rather notorious incident a few days ago by Kennedy Carter off the ball.
And this follows a couple of things.
One was one of your friends from the view, Sonny Hostin, one of the co-hosts, arguing that white privilege and pretty privilege played a role in Caitlin Clark's popularity.
ESPN former host Jamil Hill also said that her popularity was due to her race and sexuality.
And people are saying, well, that is why potentially Kennedy Carter did what she did off the ball.
When you put it all together, I mean, what do you feel about this, Sean?
I mean, are we seeing the race element of this story coming to the fore inevitably?
I don't think that, you know, the young woman who pushed her did it because Caitlin Clark is white.
But I will go back to the points that Jamal Hill and Sonny made.
I think race is a factor in Caitlin Clark, but it's not the first factor.
The first factor in Caitlin Clark's success is that she's phenomenal as a basketball player.
Like she's one of the, we've never seen anything like her.
You know, she is the leading scorer in Division I basketball, period, male, female, whatever.
But, Piers, you have to admit, whenever you see somebody excelling in a field that that race doesn't usually excel in, you know, it is heightened.
You can look at Tiger Woods in golf.
Yeah.
You can look at Eminem in rap music.
You can look at, you know, even President Obama.
Yeah, but here's the difference.
Here's the difference.
Yeah, but here's the difference.
When Obama and Tiger Woods dominated their fields of politics and golf, people didn't use their skin color in the same way they're using Caitlin Clark.
What they're saying there is she's got white privilege, pretty privilege.
She's a pretty white girl.
And that's the only reason there's all this fuss about them.
Whereas I don't think you would argue with Obama and Tiger Woods.
Yeah, there was a fuss about them, but that's because they were, one was a brilliant politician, and the other one was one of the great golfers of all time.
But that's the point.
They're all once in a lifetime generational talents, including Caitlin, including in Eminem.
But whenever you see somebody, you know, excelling in a field that that race usually doesn't excel in, there's going to be more eyeballs on it.
You're going to be like, damn, you heard this dude, Eminem, this dude, this one.
That's true.
Same thing with Caitlin.
You've seen that white guy.
That girl can ball.
That white girl can ball.
It's just a thing.
But their success isn't just because they're white.
Their success is because they're phenomenally good at what they do.
And there is that element to it.
We see it all the time.
So it's like, I think when the girl hit her, I think she's just going through some rookie hazing.
I think there is a lot of rookie hazing involved with that because she's not the only rookie.
Angel Reese, she damn, she got, you know, they choke slammed her last week, right?
So I just think there's a level of rookie hazing going on.
And there is a lot of jealousy and envy because these young ladies that are coming into the league now, the Angel Reese's, the Caitlin Clarks, you know, they've made a lot of money.
They probably, they made more money than some of these women that's been in the NBA for years.
So I think there is a level of jealousy and envy.
Like when you saw, I saw the young lady tweet out, the young lady that pushed Caitlin Clark, I can't remember her name, but she tweeted out, other than three pointers, what does she bring to the table?
That's an envy.
You got to admit, that's an envious statement, right?
That's a statement that reeks of jealousy.
It does.
I think, yeah, I don't think, I don't think it's, I don't think she's playing the race card.
I think she's just upset at a lot of the attention.
You know that, that a Caitlin Clark is getting.
But i'll tell you what, they better be careful how they treat Caitlin Clark.
They better be careful how they treat Angel Reese.
If not, they're gonna be back flying jet blue in a minute.
They're gonna be back on jealousy.
They're gonna be back on southwest.
It's not gonna be no chartered planes for those young ladies if they, you know, end up hurting either either one of those either one of those women.
But they shouldn't be soft on them either.
No, I totally agree and actually i'm sure listen, I haven't heard, I haven't seen Caitlin Clark complaining.
I think she'll probably dust herself down, score some more three-pointers and get a bit tougher physically, which is what she'll have to do to be in the program.
But on that specific point Sonny Hostin made about white privilege and pretty privilege playing a role in her popularity, you know again, using the Tiger Woods analogy, he was so talented that I don't remember saying that he was benefiting in a white sport from black privilege or, you know black, or being a good-looking young black guy.
That wasn't.
They weren't used as the sticks to beat him with when he rose to the top of golf very quickly.
And yet here we have Caitlin Clark, who is, by any definition, a brilliantly talented basket player, regardless of her skin color.
Having somebody on national television say actually, she's only really popular because of her white and pretty privilege I, I think that's wrong.
Yeah, I do I I, I disagree with that.
I mean, Caitlin is, like I said, she's a once-in-a-lifetime, generational talent.
Like you know, she's literally the leading scorer yeah, in college basketball history.
Like I, I started watching.
I started watching women's college basketball because my wife she, graduated from the University OF South Carolina.
She was a cheerleader for the University OF South Carolina, so I used to go to a lot of football games, a lot of basketball games.
I'm a Gamecock fan.
When Don Staley came to the University OF South Carolina, I started watching, you know, women's basketball a lot.
When we kept uh, Asia Wilson, who was the face of the W NBA, the best talent in the WNBA.
Now, when she stayed home in South Carolina and played for us, I never I watched that whole run and never stopped watching women's college basketball.
So I saw when Angel Reese came in, I saw when, you know, Caitlin Clark came in and what kept me watching was the fact that they were really good like.
All of them were really good, like they are, you know, phenomenal competitors, man.
So it's like yeah, I think that there is an element um, that I think there is an element of race.
But, like I said, I think it's because whenever you see somebody dominating, that's a very good point.
That race doesn't usually dominate it, it just makes it more of a spectacle.
It just does.
I don't.
That's just how we're all wired.
I don't know, when you see the first black president, that's more historic than any other president that's ever happened.
When you see, when you see Tiger Woods, that's more historic than anything else.
You know, when you see a Caitlin Clark, you're like wow, I've never seen that, you know.
So, I mean, yeah, to deny race in those situations, it would be foolish of us, but that's not the, that's not the sole reason.
I don't even know what the percentage would be, but I wouldn't even give that half of why, you know, she's successful.
And your message to Chenity Carter is be careful you're not backflying Jet Blue.
What's her name?
What's her name again?
Chennedy Carter.
Kennedy Carter, yes.
To Chennedy Carter.
And, you know, all the other women out there that are being super tough on the rookies like the Andrew Reese and the Caitlin Clarks, you have to be careful because if you hurt one of them, y'all going to all be back, you know, flying Delta or Jet Blue, which is nothing wrong with Delta and Jet Blue.
I love both of them.
I can have miles on both of them.
But if I could fly private all the time, I probably would.
If I could fly charters at the time, I probably would.
So, you know, don't cut your nose off to spite your face.
But don't be soft on them either, though.
No.
I thought Martina Ratilova made a good point.
She said, the players in the WNBA need to realize that Clark is helping all of them now.
And in the long run, Caitlin's the tide that will raise all boats.
And I totally get that.
It's like the more exciting you can make the sport, the women's national basketball association sport look, the more eyeballs you're going to get, the more money they're all going to get.
And she's absolutely right.
And by the way, the reason everybody is having a reaction to what happened to Caitlin is because it wasn't a basketball play.
Like it was clearly a cheap shot.
Like my man Matt Barnes, he hosts a very popular podcast called the All the Smoke Podcast that you can hear on my podcast network, the Black Effect iHeartRadio Podcast Network, him and Stephen Jackson.
He said that, yo, Indiana needs an enforcer.
Indiana needs somebody that protects the star because he was an enforcer for Kobe Bryan, God bless the dead.
And just like you've seen other enforcement, like Charles Oakley was an enforcer for Michael Jordan when he was on the Bulls.
Like every team needs an enforcer.
So when there's a cheap shot like that that happens, the, you know, Caitlin Clark, somebody can retaliate.
Piz, I was born in 1978.
So, you know, I'm sure you follow American basketball.
You saw there was a time, I think it was Bill Lambert had like, like he just did this disgusting, dirty foul play on Larry Bird, right?
Mind you, Bill Lambert is white.
Larry Bird is white.
So it's just basketball, basketball.
He just, he hurt Larry Bird.
I don't know if it was, I think it was the next game, Robert Parrish, Black Center, two-piece Bill Lambert.
Like, I mean, it wasn't even a basketball play, just a beat down to the ground because you need an enforcer.
And I think, you know, that's what this situation is.
The Indiana Fields do need an enforcer, you know, to protect Caitlin Carter.
I have an idea for who that could be.
I think if LeBron James just needs to identify as a woman, and then by Joe Biden, by Joe Biden's yardstick, that would be fine.
He can become the enforcer for Caitlin Clark.
You know, right now in America, that could be a possibility.
It could actually happen.
Yeah, it could actually happen.
Indiana Needs an Enforcer 00:00:31
That's right.
Charlamagne, brilliant to talk to you.
I love the book, Get Honest or Die Lying, Why Small Talk Sucks.
I think we've just proved two things.
One, you're the best promoter of your own products, and why shouldn't you be?
They're great.
And secondly, you do what it says on the tin.
You like the extended chat.
I like it.
I love going on your show.
I love having you on mine.
I think you're a breath of fresh air in the global debate.
So thank you very much.
Thank you, Piers.
I get excited to be on with you, man, just because I know we're going to have some lively conversations, man.
So thank you for having me again.
Great to see you.
Catch up soon.
Okay.
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