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May 2, 2024 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
44:48
20240502_columbia-uni-protests-how-dare-you-call-me-a-racis
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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NYPD and Campus Protests 00:12:03
That doesn't mean I don't have very strong views about what's happening in Gaza because you know that I do.
So where is my lie in all this?
Yeah, Piers, I just listened to you for 20 minutes frame the issue in a purely 100% Israeli propaganda way.
So if you say, hey, listen, the Jewish students shouldn't be harassed or attacked, of course I agree.
I have to say, why have I lied?
No, no, no.
Stop interrupting.
The protesters wreaking havoc at some of America's top universities have a deadly serious point.
Unfortunately, many of them are fundamentally unserious people.
Nothing captured the insanity of this moment better than a PhD candidate at Columbia University stepping out to demand humanitarian aid for the protesters.
I guess it's ultimately a question of what kind of community and obligation Colombia feels it has to its students.
Do you want students to die of dehydration and starvation or get severely ill, even if they disagree with you?
If the answer is no, then you should allow basic, I mean, it's crazy to say because we're on an Ivy Lee campus, but this is like basic humanitarian aid we're asking for.
It seems like you're sort of saying we want to be revolutionaries, we want to take up this building.
Now would you please bring us some food?
With a completely straight face, she demands urgent assistance for protesters to spare them dehydration, starvation and severe illness as she and her mob friends voluntarily occupied a private building in support of Gaza people actually facing dehydration, starvation and severe illness.
Well students protesting for peace is nothing new.
They have every right to do it, but clearly there are limits under the law.
And at this point they're doing a better job of Israeli propaganda than Israel's government.
Police have moved in to eject students from Columbia's Hamilton Hall after reports they vandalized and barricaded the famous building.
As the university said, this was because of the protesters' actions, not because of their cause.
Officers clashed with students at other campuses overnight, including UCLA in Los Angeles, where pro-Israel protesters moved on their rivals and police patients ran out.
It's all beginning to have unpleasant shades of the BLM riots in 2020, a fundamentally just cause which became toxic and divisive, fueled by people who know little about the issues, a lot about causing chaos.
And quite apart from the absurdity of the individuals involved, it raises serious questions and contradictions.
Many of former President Trump's fears his critics shuddered at his blated crackdown on those 2020 protests.
How does St. Joe Biden's supporters defend the scenes we're witnessing now?
And on the other hand, many of the staunchest defenders of free speech have been the loudest supporters of Israel and the fiercest critics of the campus protesters.
So where is the line?
And is it the police or the protesters who've crossed it?
Well, in a moment, we'll debate all this with an all-star panel.
Well, first joining me now is pro-Palestinian activist Nadine Khizwani, who organized protests outside Colombia and City University in New York last night.
Okay, Nadine, welcome back to Uncensored.
You were there last night.
There's a current ban on you and others from Colombia dated from last week saying that you are considered persona non grata on all Colombia university-owned property due to alarming and concerning behavior.
So why were you back there?
I wasn't inside the gates of Colombia.
I was outside of Colombia.
And, you know, I'm able to be able to protest outside of Colombia in support of the students as a New Yorker, just like New Yorkers have been consistently showing outside of the gates of Colombia in support of the students, even before they launched the Gaza Solidarity encampment.
My organization, within our lifetime, mobilized in support of Colombia students from Jewish Voice for Peace and from Students for Justice in Palestine, who were both suspended months ago.
And, you know, we're just continuing that tradition, that support from the community to the students.
So we had a protest that started at NYU, went to the new school, made a stop at FIT, the Fashion Institute of Technology.
We made our way over to Colombia by train and then ended at CUNY.
So just showing solidarity to all of the encampments.
But it's not quite as straightforward as just showing solidarity.
Mobs inside and outside the campus have been chanting intifada.
And anyone who knows the history of the conflict between Palestine and Israel knows what intifada means.
It means a violent uprising.
They've been chanting from the river to the sea, which of course involves the eradication of Israel.
We've seen Jewish students being harassed by the mob.
We've seen Jewish professors not being allowed in to teach because of fears for their safety.
We've seen others being held in effective captivity following the breaking in, the violent breaking in of an historic building.
All of this, a lot of it is criminal, from trespass to vandalism to actually potentially kidnapping people if you're not letting them out when you break in.
Hang on, I'm just saying, potentially it could be categorized as that.
So my question for you is, why would you support all this?
Why do you support chanting about a violent uprising?
Why are Jewish students being harassed in this manner?
Why would you support the wanton vandalism involved in smashing into an historic building?
So I'm going to try to answer this in the order of everything you said.
First of all, intifada means shaking off an Arabic or uprising.
It's not just used in the Palestinian context, but against people fighting against oppression everywhere.
And the City University of New York, where I was a student in undergrad and for law school, actually investigated SJP for the use of the word intifada in previous years.
They released a report in 2016 that is public right now.
You can find it online that clarifies that intifada is not an anti-Semitic.
There have been two intifada.
Hang on.
There have been two intifadas.
The first and second intifada in the conflict in the last 30 years.
There have been these two infamous intifadas, which led to the deaths of many, many people on both sides.
Both were violent uprisings.
So when people chant about...
Intifada started to start as boycotts.
It started to strike.
Are you going to let me respond?
I'm going to clarify.
I've got to have five accusations.
Well.
And I'm going to try to respond to all of them in order.
Okay, not going back and forth.
Are you going to try and deny that either intifada was violent?
I believe that the Israeli colonizers, the Zionists, made it violent by attacking peaceful protests.
Just like we saw the NYPD attack protesters at CUNY and at Colombia, that made the situation that wasn't previously violent violence.
And all the acts of terrorism perpetrated by pro-Palestinians against Israelis during the two intifadas, what do you think of those?
I'm not here to debate the first and the second intifada with you.
I've told you the definition of the word.
You could say that.
But that is why when people are spot on.
You're being disingenuous.
When people, when pro-Palestinian groups outside of New York University chant about intifada, they know what they're doing and Jewish people know what they're doing.
They are invoking the first and second protests.
I have been chanting intifada for decades.
So, you know, this, and let's go back, let's go to the second phrase you say, from the river to the sea.
Now they want to make a problem with that.
Any chant that we say, you know, there's this accusation of anti-Semitism because every single pro-Palestinian activist has been accused of anti-Semitism as a way to silence them.
Even though just, you know, you mentioned Jewish students before.
So many of these Jewish students are standing with us, are with the protests inside and outside.
Many are not.
And the Jewish voice for peace.
Many Jewish students.
Many Jewish students are not, and they're being harassed.
We're seeing the videos of them being harassed.
They're being threatened.
They're being banned from the people.
And many Palestinian Arabs are going into being tortured.
They've been on October 7th.
But you're not in Gaza doing this.
You're doing it in the middle of New York.
What does this have to do with being in Gaza?
We're here as New Yorkers, as Arabs, Muslims, and Palestinians, and we're harassed daily, constantly, not just since October 7th, but for as long as we have lived here.
And you know, that's constantly ignored.
But when Palestinian students are finally speaking up against the slaughter of their people in Gaza and all over Palestine, you know, it becomes a problem.
Now they want to, you know, pay attention to these things.
You know, I think every Palestinian organization, including my own, has made it clear that we stand against anti-Semitism and that these smears of anti-Semitism against pro-Palestinian activists are a long-held tradition by the Zionist lobby, by Zionist organizations, as an attempt to discredit people.
If protesters get violent, is that acceptable resistance to the oppression?
I haven't seen any violence happening at protests, so I don't even know why this is a question.
Nobody's advocating for violent protests, and nobody's justified.
Would it be justified?
I just answered that.
You're just repeating the same question.
I feel like you're being disingenuous.
You didn't answer when I've already made this.
You didn't answer if it would be justified.
I just said it's not acceptable.
How could it be justified?
Right.
So the only violence that we see being unleashed, which is completely unacceptable, is by the NYPD who have maced protesters.
They maced people at NYU, which I saw with my own eyes.
Well, they actually went and threw out.
Last night, they whipped out their batons.
They beat people until they bled.
People got punched in the face.
They were bleeding from their teeth.
You know, this is the violence that's coming up.
Well, that's because we're seeing it.
That's because a howling violent mob chanting intifada broke into an historic building on a private property.
It's not their property.
They committed acts of vandalism, committed acts of trespass.
They were holding people against their will.
They've been threatening and harassing Jewish students.
I'm sorry, that's not a peaceful protest.
These people are...
Those people being held against their will were Columbia students forced to stay inside the journalism school.
You know, the NYPD literally poked their head in an open door and told the CUNY journalism students that if they left that building, they would be arrested.
Columbia admin came to say that they should have the right to report, that they can't limit the freedom of speech, the freedom of the press.
And the NYPD actually threatened Colombia administration.
So the only people who were being held against their will were the Columbia students by the NYPD.
And other students who were not part of the journalism school, part of the other schools or in their dorms, were also ordered to shelter in place by the Columbia administration.
So everything you brought up from the violence to people being held against their will, this is being perpetuated by the people in positions of power, by the administrations of these universities, and by the police department, who is being used to crush peaceful protests, who is being used to show up in riot gear and turn an otherwise peaceful situation into a riot.
Never forget that in 1968, 150 protesters occupied the same exact hall that the students of Colombia were occupying as of last night and forced to come out of Hamilton Hall, which they renamed Hinns Hall in honor of the five-year-old Palestinian girl who was killed, who had to sit in a car with her family member for hours, her family members for hours, while they decayed, while they rotted after being killed by the Israeli army.
And she starved to death.
Nobody was able to get to her.
So, you know, in 1968, Hamilton Hall was occupied by over 150 students protesting South African apartheid.
And this kind of police violence wasn't used against them.
They are remembered in history as heroes.
So, continuing the long-held tradition of university activism, this is what they were doing.
You made your point.
This is what we were doing at CUNY and all the encampments that we saw.
Free Speech vs Hate Speech 00:03:22
Not just in the U.S., but all seven countries.
Nadine, I have to move on because I have four other guests, but I appreciate you joining me.
Thank you very much.
But joining me now is the independent presidential candidate Cornell West, who teaches at Columbia and joins some of the student protests.
The Fox News contributor Kat Tim, former BLM supporter Javier DeRusso of Prague U, who broke into a pro-Palestinian encampment at UCLA, and the young Turks founder, Jenk Ugar.
Kat, I want to start with you because I know you've got a slight time constraint.
So I want to start with you and just talk about one aspect of this, which is the whole issue of free speech in this debate.
And we're going to get into the two sides part of it in a moment with the other guests.
But from a free speech perspective, what is your take on what we're seeing here?
So I've been very open about this issue.
I think there's been not quite enough focus on the free speech issue.
I think that, for example, you could look at Texas Governor Abbott, who in 2019 was saying there has to be free speech on campuses.
There has to be the First Amendment on campuses.
Then on March 27th, he signed something that limits speech on campus, including constitutionally protected speech, including criticism of Israel's government.
I think that what the Constitution says is very, very clear that even hate speech is free speech, right?
So you can debate whether something is or is not hate speech in the debate.
You just have it through your last guess proves that there is some disagreement on that.
And the main point is the government should not be the one deciding what is and is not.
We have a spokesperson for the Indiana Police Department saying hate speech isn't free speech.
Well, that just simply isn't true.
And it's the whole idea of what it's always been, which is that you don't want the government to be in the position of deciding what speech is and is not allowed, because that is going to be dangerous for anyone, including Jewish students, right?
I mean, there was no free speech, obviously, in Hitler's Germany, right?
And saying that free speech, something is First Amendment protected free speech, it's not that you don't have to say you agree with it.
And you can totally bring up the fact that maybe it's been less consistent in terms of all of a sudden now a lot of these university presidents are super pro-free speech when it comes to this and they haven't been in the past.
But to me, that's not going to cause me to be hypocritical on this issue.
I'm a First Amendment absolutist.
I was in 2019.
I was before 2019 and I still am today.
What if you are chanting Intifada, given the history of intifadas between Israel and Palestine twice in the last 30 years?
We know what intifadas have been there.
There have been violent uprisings with many people dying.
And what if you chart from the river to the sea, which Jewish people believe absolutely means the eradication of Israel?
I'm just asking.
The First Amendment.
I will come to everybody else.
Kat has to go, so I want to just get this free speech part of the debate out of the way.
Kat.
The First Amendment is actually clear on that, where you have to have a very, very, very specific exception where that would not be allowed.
So, for example, a peaceful protest where people are marching and saying from the river to the sea is constitutionally protected speech.
An incident where you were targeting a specific Jewish student and chanting that at that student where a protest had become violent, then that maybe would not be.
Crossing the Line at Columbia 00:11:14
But it's very, very narrow, and it's supposed to be very, very narrow, where it has to be directed and likely to produce imminent action and also true threats.
Those are the only exceptions which are very, very narrow.
And the law is clear on this.
But if you have people, and we've seen pictures of them inside and outside campus who appear to be supporting Hamas rhetoric, who are wearing maybe insignia relating to Hamas or Hezbollah or whatever.
If you're brazenly supporting organizations, groups of people that are deemed to be terrorists by large sways of the world, does that cross the line?
This is utter nonsense, Piers.
Can I just answer the question?
Okay, you got genocide taking place.
You got IDF terrorism taking place.
You can't say a mumbling word about 12 universities that have been leveled to the ground.
Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of professors have been killed.
Students have been killed.
You're a journalist.
Yes.
Have you talked about the 112 journalists who have been killed?
Yes, I have done.
Well, hang on.
Well, Cornell, I actually...
Cornell, hang on.
Hang on.
Cornell.
Cornell.
You're unfair.
Cornell.
You start lying, man.
It's ridiculous.
Cornell, I'm not lying about anything.
No, you are.
I agree with Cornell West completely.
You're totally, utterly lying through your framing.
The framing of Israel.
Sorry.
Look, I can't hear you both speaking at the same time.
Cornell.
Just to be clear, I have posted.
Sorry, hang on.
Hang on.
I have posted about the journalists who've died in Gaza, right?
I have posted about this.
I have highlighted the deaths of those journalists.
Put it in the framework.
Well, I'm going to.
I was going to come to you about the framework.
No, you're not.
All the vandalism about one hall, and you target can say a mumbling word about universities, libraries gone completely, schoolrooms gone completely.
You see how truncated and narrow your framework is?
You're just lying, man.
You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
When you say lying, you're trying to imply that I don't care about the other stuff you've just mentioned.
That's not a lie.
That's definitely right.
Does not have the same value as an Israeli life.
That's what I'm saying.
Okay, let me bring in Jenkins.
Let me bring in Chen.
Let me bring in.
Okay, let me bring in Cheng.
Just to be clear, I haven't lied about anything, right?
I haven't talked about what's happening in Gaza yet because we haven't come to that part of the debate.
But Chenk, I don't believe...
You've always seemed to me to be one of the more rational voices in this debate, prepared to accept what Hamas did was horrendous and so on.
I don't believe that you think it's right that Jewish students should be intimidated and harassed.
You come right back to the thing.
Can I just answer this?
We are debating the protests.
Come on, bro.
I don't think it's right.
They should be subjected to intimidation.
Okay, Piers.
Nobody thinks that's right.
Nobody thinks that's right.
It's not a problem.
Let Jenkin speak and I'll come back to you.
Because she and 15,000 other children have been killed by the IDF terrorists that you don't even call terrorists.
But you can call the students terrorists.
That's not a double standards, man.
That's just outright mendacity, hiding criminality on your show.
And you're supposed to be uncentered, concerned about the truth.
You just said I call them terrorists.
I haven't called them terrorists.
That ironically is a lie.
Chenk, I want to bring you in.
You're getting very angry about this too.
Just to be clear, I am expressing an opinion that what has happened at Columbia has crossed a line.
And that if I'm a Jewish student there, I think it's completely outrageous.
I'm being intimidated and harassed for the actions of Israel's government thousands of miles away.
That doesn't mean I don't have very strong views about what's happening in Gaza because you know that I do.
So where is my lie in all this?
Yeah, Piers, I've just listened to you for 20 minutes frame the issue in a purely 100% Israeli propaganda way.
So if you say, hey, listen, Jewish students shouldn't be harassed or attacked.
Of course I agree.
I've got to say that.
So why have I lied?
No, no, no.
Stop interrupting.
But what you don't talk about is you say from the river to the sea is an unacceptable chain.
Did you mention to the audience in these last 20 minutes that Benjamin Netanyahu actually said it recently?
Not only that, he's actually doing it.
He's in the middle of wiping out the Palestinians from the river to the sea.
That is the grotesque violence.
He has slaughtered 25,000 women and children.
They were all innocent.
So when Hamas kills 860 innocent Israeli civilians, I call them out and I say that is terrible.
But when Israel slaughters 25,000 women and children, we're saying, oh, I don't like a pro-Palestinian chant.
Chant?
That's what we're concerned about.
And now you turn to the violence that has happened on college campuses.
There is one case of overwhelming violence.
And that happened last night at UCLA.
And it was pro-Israeli protesters that violently attacked the peace protesters that didn't do anything.
They attacked an old lady and said, oh, yeah, good luck trying to defend yourself, old lady.
These are vicious, vigilante thugs.
And they have done more violence than all of the peace protesters in the country combined.
Where are the arrests?
Where's the outrage?
Where is the indignation?
You pretend that you care about protecting students, but you only care about protecting one side, whereas the other side is assaulted.
No, I don't actually.
No, because it's debase and humiliating.
Let me respond.
All you want to do is cancel our speech.
You're part of canceling culture and administrator.
Can I respond to that?
We're talking about protesting people.
Americans.
Can I respond?
Americans.
By the way.
Okay, this is not the United States of Israel.
Fine.
America to protest a foreign government.
Okay, let me respond.
Just to be clear.
You've lost the right wing.
Just to be clear.
You've lost the right wing.
You've lost America.
America's not going to stand here and let Israel speak.
And who's going to be arrested?
All right, you can keep shouting.
I'm going to give you 20 minutes to do propaganda.
Okay, go ahead.
It's not propaganda.
I have many views about all of this.
We're talking specifically about the protests at Columbia, which I think you've crossed a line.
By the way, you talk about cancel culture.
I'm entitled to my view without you and Dr. West screaming liar, genocide, supporting, and all this other bodies.
Okay, do you condemn the UCLA thugs?
Let me make it clear.
Do you condemn them?
I'm doing the same thing you want to do.
Wait a minute.
Do you condemn them?
Wait a minute.
Are you pro-violence?
Can I answer the question?
If this was Jewish students that were breaking into this building violently...
No, you don't have to go with a hypothetical.
No, sorry, I am going to go with a hypothetical because you're trying to make out that somehow...
I'm only doing this because I'm pro-Israel's government.
I'm not pro-Israel's government.
What I am pro is the safety of Jewish students being protected because they are not responsible for the actions of an Israel government thousands of miles away.
They're entitled, having paid $400,000 for their education.
You say no, you don't want to protect the peace.
I don't think mob rules should be allowed to go on.
So when you're talking about, this is a private university campus.
They are entitled to not have their buildings desecrated in this manner.
And they are entitled to benchmarking.
But when they have the police removed.
Be honest.
Be honest.
When they were doing it in a public space, everybody in media, in American media, said, how dare they do it in a public space?
They do it in a private place.
You go, how dare they do it in a private place?
You shouldn't be breaking into buildings for.
You know what?
When Martin Luther King in Selma, Alabama, crossed the Edmund Pettis Bridge, you know what they said?
How dare they interrupt the bridge?
How dare they go in a public place?
How dare those protesters, civil rights leaders should know their role, should know their place, boy?
That's what people like everyone in American media is saying right now to the people in favor of not slaughtering any more Palestinians.
You guys sound exactly like Bull Conner.
Okay, I know you have to go.
I just want to just bring you back in just briefly.
Look, this is an incredibly, as you can tell, this is a very incendiary debate and passions run very high about this.
Has anything you've just been listening to given you any more clarity about how we resolve this situation?
Because presumably, these protests are not going to go away.
They may get bigger in number.
They may affect more universities.
This is a bad situation getting progressively quickly worse.
What do we do about this?
Right.
Again, going back to what I was saying before, I think that the law on these things is clear.
I think that we want to be careful to not give up any of our rights as Americans in response to things that we see.
There was also a bipartisan legislation proposed about having anti-Semitism monitors on campuses.
I mean, what could go wrong there, right?
And I've been open as a First Amendment absolutist, and I've had people send me videos of things like smash windows.
Well, is this free speech, Kat?
Obviously not, and I'm not saying that it is.
I think that the robust debate surrounding this proves all the more reason why there are strong disagreements on what counts as what and what means this or what means that, that we should not have the government be in the position to decide ever what you can and cannot say because any of these rules that some people are pushing for that would, you know, some of the slogans that the Palestinian protesters are chanting to silence any of that could then,
based on what else someone else thinks, could be used to say prevent an IDF soldier from coming to campus to speak.
So I think that there are two separate things that we need to keep how you feel about the speech personally, how you feel about the issue personally, and then how you feel about the government involvement in it.
Those are two completely separate things and it's not the same to be pro-First Amendment and anti-Semitic.
You make some great points.
Kat, we've got to let you go.
Thank you very much, Indeed, for joining us.
I greatly appreciate it.
Thank you.
I want to bring in Javier Darusso.
You've been waiting patiently.
You posted on X yesterday breaking inside the UCLA anti-Israel encampment.
Journalist Cam Higbee and I snuck into the ongoing encampment to see what was going on.
Cam was killed after asking too many common sense questions and physically removed by the protesters.
We have a bit of footage of that, I think.
They bought the same wristbands as the anti-Semites so that we could sneak into their camp and woo channel the ghetto.
First of all, they had gender neutral buckets to urinate and poop in.
The whole place smelled like musty terrorists and shit.
But the fact that they were forcing out conversation in journalists makes it clear that they don't have the answers to explain why they're there.
And I was overhearing the most racist conversations about white people just in general.
These people are literally BLM rebranded and more extreme.
Look, that's pretty inflammatory stuff, but you're here now.
Do you think what you did last night was the right thing to do?
American Terrorism on Campus 00:03:19
Absolutely.
And first of all, thank you for having me, Pierce.
It was the right thing to do.
I'm somebody, I hate propaganda from either side.
I hate being told what I'm supposed to believe.
So I like to go in and see for myself.
So I snuck into the camp.
It was very easy.
I just put on a tacky outfit and went and bought the same wristbands from Staples.
And I saw the conditions that were back there.
I saw the sanitation hazards of them all using the same bucket to poop in.
And I saw the, I overheard the conversations that they were having in there.
It was full of hate speech.
It was full of just calling for the bloodshed of Zionists.
It was them being angry.
And it ultimately started to get violent once my friend Cam Higbee's cover was blown.
Once they realized that they were describing him as a white Republican, they immediately knew that they had to kick him out.
And they locked arms.
They were shoving him up the stairs and then back down the stairs to get him out of the encampment.
And it just goes to show how aggressive these college students are getting.
I'm all for free speech.
I'm all for freedom of expression, but that is limited once you start, one, prohibiting these students who pay a lot of money to go to these college campuses to go to class, as well as you start becoming violent towards journalists and people who are just there trying to get an inside story on what's actually happening on these universities that we are being asked to pay for.
Dr. West, coming back to you, Donald Trump got horrendous criticism for cracking down on the BLM process in 2020.
Is Biden not just doing the same here?
And is there a double standard in the way that people are looking at these two different situations?
I mean, one, anytime you have massive military occupation of a community, that's what BLS was about.
That's what Black Lives Matter was about, which is a 400-year affair.
I don't know whether the brother would want to do that in the 1960s to see who was using the urine with King and Malcolm and Fannie Lou Haman and others.
But there were other issues they were zeroing in on.
It's called American terrorism.
It's called American Jim Crow or American police murdering other young people of different colors, disproportionately chocolate, right?
But when you have massive military occupation, that is a massive breakdown of a community.
If you can't have a leadership of a university that can have a dialogue about three claims, we want transparency about your investments.
We don't want you to invest in genocide, occupation, and ethnic cleansing.
And we want amnesty.
You can have a dialogue.
At Brown, they said they're going to have a dialogue.
They're going to have a vote.
But no, no, not Columbia and the others.
They've become such a corporation.
They're tied to their donors.
They're tied to their money masters.
They're tied to their benefactors.
They don't give a damn about what the students think.
The students are just cannon fodder for their reputation who are highly talented, worked very hard, but have hardly any voice.
And when you don't have a voice and you move in a nonviolent way, and Brother Pierce, you should know the two first anti-fathers were non-violent.
They shot them down like dogs.
That's why Hamas didn't appear until 1988 and you had the vicious occupation in 1948.
If they had shot Martin Luther King Jr. down and Rosa Parks down and so forth, there's no doubt that black folk would have responded.
That's why we, the black people, haven't created a black version of the Ku Klux Klan because we had leaders like Martin and leaders like Fannie Lou.
White Supremacy in Universities 00:12:17
You shoot them down like a dog, it's going to be a very different situation.
Okay.
Okay, but let me ask you.
Let me ask you a question then.
Students are going to have faults and you perception.
We're talking about the main issue of genocide.
This ain't no game.
This ain't no game.
It's not a game.
People are dying.
And I understand.
Journalists are dying.
Cornell, I'm already.
You must let me respond.
You teach at Columbia and you join these protests.
Theological seminary across the street.
I've been in the camp.
I didn't see anything that the other brothers saw.
But, you know, if he makes his judgment, he makes his judgment.
But given that there has been clear intimidation and harassment of Jewish students, it's been broadcast.
We've seen the videos of it.
You cannot be happy as a professor there that Jewish students are being harassed and intimidated because people are critical of what an Israel government's doing thousands of miles away.
That is my point.
Of course.
Of course.
That goes without saying.
I try to be a decent person in my life.
So you agree with me.
After that diary, all you want to talk about is predictions.
That's all I want to talk about.
Cornell.
But that is actually what this debate is about.
Organizations that are banned back in October.
Did you say a word about that?
When you got massive children at universities and hospitals completely leveled and you have something on your Twitter rather than make that part of the framing of the issue, then in fact, you become an extension of propaganda.
And that's why I call you a racist because it means then that Palestinian Israeli life, I would not frame it in that way.
I'm sorry, but you, you, how dare you call me a racist?
What you don't know is, I, before I did this debate, I did a long interview with one of the IDF spokesmen in which I went after him about their planned invasion of Rafah because I think it would be a catastrophic mistake.
So don't call me a racist.
Don't assume that you believe the Palestinian life has the same value as Israeli.
Yes, I do.
Absolutely not.
Yes, I do.
I absolutely love it.
I absolutely believe I believe Palestinian lives matter just as much as any other lives.
And I've always said that.
Always.
It's not manifest in your framing, brother.
It's not manifest in your race.
Don't throw around the word racist without any evidence to support the fact that I'm a race.
I hear a lot of evidence, and I've been hearing the evidence and I throw it around.
It's not throwing around.
It's a reality.
Me saying it is wrong that Jewish students are being harassed is not racism because I'm not also talking about university thing.
I think that's like a lot of people.
All right, Jake, I'll bring you in.
No.
Okay.
Look, Piers, you keep going back to the most obvious question in the world.
Should Jewish students be protected from harassment or assault?
Yes.
Obviously.
Obviously.
So you both agree with me.
No.
So what does it mean?
Let me finish.
Let me finish.
So that's the most obvious point in the world.
And I already told you that I have Jewish family.
I have a nephew who wears a star, David, on a college campus.
I will go and help the people that are escorting them to their classes, etc.
That is not an issue.
But what you just did was you spent now 20 to 30 minutes framing it like that is the biggest issue and everyone is saying, oh no, we should attack the Jewish students when no one is saying that.
In reality, hold on.
In reality, vigilante thugs last night attacked the peace protesters at UCLA who had done nothing wrong.
It was a violent attack.
They beat them with sticks.
They pepper sprayed them.
And yet I asked you a simple question.
You've got now 20 to 30 minutes of propaganda saying, oh, the Palestinian protesters, the peace protesters, they hate the Jews.
They're anti-Semites, anti-Semites, all the Jews are in danger, etc.
And I'm saying, of course, let's protect them.
And then you make it seem like that's the 98% of the issue.
When in reality, the only protesters that have been massively violent are the pro-Israel protesters.
And to this second, not only did you mention it for about two and a half seconds, you still haven't condemned them.
So do you condemn them, Piers?
The violent thugs.
I deliberately, I deliberately, I deliberately held off writing or commenting about what was going on in Colombia for quite a few days.
And I will do the same about what happened at UCLA until I've actually established for myself.
Well, hang on.
Sorry, it happened overnight.
And I will wait and see the facts.
And when I get the facts, I will pass judgment without fear or favor and certainly without any racism.
Now, have you, you were there last night.
And Piers, on the racism charge?
Hang on.
No, no.
Because we are, everyone who defends Palestinians in this country, no matter what they say, like I'm a perfect example.
I condemn Hamas.
I want to protect the Jewish students.
I want a beautiful pro-Palestine and Israel.
I want two states.
And we're called anti-Semites, including by your guests, 24-7.
The minute someone calls an Army.
I've never called you an anti-Semitic.
All of a sudden, everybody catches fear.
Except I haven't called it.
Which only goes one way.
It only goes one way, right?
No, no, no.
I have never called you an anti-Semite.
I've never called Dr. West an anti-Semitism.
I've never called either of you racist, and yet both of you have gone along with calling me a racist, even though I'm not.
So, yeah, if you're going to see shit out.
Are you going to ignore the people?
Piers, are you going to ignore the framing?
You know you framed it this way.
And Piers, you're not all of you.
Just to be clear.
Come on, Piers, let me give you a little bit of credit.
You are open to the Palestinian position 20% of the time.
Just to be clear.
That's why I come back on this show.
Just to be clear.
But the American media is filled with racists against Muslims.
American politicians are racist against Muslims and they revel in it.
Blood, rivers of blood in Gaza.
And the American politicians and the American media say, not enough.
Kill them more, Israel.
Kill them more.
Just to be clear.
Who objects to the wide slaughter of those people?
Okay.
It's called an anti-Semitic.
Just to be clear.
The American media is sick.
Just to be clear, you were all booked to take part in a debate specifically about the protests at Colombia.
So when you're asking, why am I focusing on the protests at Colombia?
That is why you were all booked for this segment and debate.
So don't try and be disingenuous with viewers and make out that you were booked for any wider purpose because you weren't.
I wanted to debate all the issues around what's going on in Colombia.
What is interesting to me.
Let's talk about Kalibur.
Let me finish.
Let's talk about Kalibur.
Let me finish.
Those peace brokers are the same ones that are.
I'm sorry, you don't just keep talking on my show.
I'm also banished and propagandized against people like you.
I'm not a propagandist.
I'm not a racist or any of these things, right?
War is always great.
Peace is always the bad guys.
It's absurd.
It is absurd.
I agree with you about it being absurd.
Piers, do you get that we are vomiting your propaganda?
We can't stand it anymore.
It isn't just about you.
It's all of media, all of the politicians with their non-stop propaganda that the people in favor of peace, the people who want to protect innocent lives, are somehow pro-terrorists or the bad guys or the anti-Semites or the racists, etc.
We're sick of the overwhelming propaganda.
Yeah, I'm pretty sick of being called a racist by you guys.
So we've all got across the bed.
Let me bring.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to ask you whether the IDF were terrorists.
Are the IDF a terrorist organization killing innocent children?
Yes or no?
I do not believe they're a terrorist organization.
No.
Oh, come on.
Of course they're in Aries.
They're at war.
There's a big difference between being at war and being a terrorist.
You may think they are, Cornell, and you may think they are, Jenk.
You've asked me a question.
I do not think they are.
Okay?
Based on what?
Do I think the IDF?
Do I think the IDF has very serious questions to answer about the way they are executing this war?
Absolutely.
Do we have international criminal courts?
Do we have criminal courts and laws and rules to hold them to account?
Absolutely.
And do I want them to be held to account?
Damn right I do.
Yeah.
And do I think they should be invading Rafah?
No, I do not.
Don't mean that much to you.
Let me come on.
Oh, it does mean as much to me.
Let me bring in Javier again.
No, they don't mean it.
Javier.
Javier, this debate has got very unpleasant for reasons that are slightly lost on me, given what the debate was supposed to be.
Cornell, let Javier speak.
Okay?
Javier, you were there.
Javier has been very patient.
Javier, you were there last night, and it's been pictured by Cenk as it was simply a bunch of very violent pro-Israel protesters attacking completely innocent pro-Palestinian protesters.
What was your experience there?
What did you see?
I mean, that's not what happened there, and it's not what's happened at any of these universities.
I don't know why he's trying to portray it as if the pro-Palestinians are there peacefully.
I also have a video on my Twitter of a pro-Palestinian chasing after a Jewish man trying to tase him because she didn't like what was on his sign.
I also saw a man go and spit on a woman's dog simply because she was on the Zionist side.
So, no, it's not this situation where you have the pro-Palestinians who are just sitting there in their encampment and not doing anything.
These people have continuously been violent.
And I mean, even just looking over at what happened in Colombia, you're not busting into windows and breaking into buildings if you're there to be peaceful and to be protesting peacefully.
That's not the case.
So you are disingenuous, Sank, if you're going to sit here and pretend that the pro-Palestinians are just being innocent.
I don't understand how you could even see it in that way.
But, brother, Levi, there's videos online.
Are you going to sit here and lie to everyone and say that the pro-Israel side didn't attack?
Well, you both spoke over each other, so we didn't hear what either person said.
Okay, all right.
Let me just ask Javier, who's obviously lying about this.
There's videos online of the pro-Israel side clearly attacking the pro-Palestinian side with sticks and fireworks and pepper spray.
Are you going to sit here and lie on television and say to everyone that that didn't happen?
Because go ahead.
You lose all credibility.
Go ahead, liar.
They were fighting back.
They were fighting back.
And don't call me a liar.
I'm not hearing back her name and be childish like you at your big age.
But the pro-Palestinian side, there was a woman who was put in the hospital because she was hitting them.
They were innocent all of a sudden.
Yeah, you just were being dirty.
You don't sit there and poop in a gender-neutral bucket and sit there and act like you're not dirty.
I call it the health department.
It is filthy.
The way that they're behaving is filthy.
I don't hate Muslims, but I do hate Muslim extremism.
I have a lot of fundamental issues with the Muslim extremism that's going on in the world.
If the only way that you can get your point across is going and raping and beheading people, then you're probably a terrorist and you're probably an extremist.
I do have an issue with that.
I do have an issue with the fact that you show an ankle and you're killed in some of these nations.
Oh, no, I'm racist.
I'm not racist.
I don't have any issue with Muslims being generous.
Did I not just say extremists?
I just said extremists, but you chose to hear what you wanted to hear.
And then he soon streamed it into a bucket.
I wasn't even just talking about the Muslims.
I was talking about in the encampment.
The encampment is disgusting.
They're all sitting there with unwashed behinds protesting and screaming out for the bloodshed of Jews and Christians worldwide.
So yeah, I have a problem with that.
I have a fundamental issue with that.
That's such a big deal.
But Javier, nonsense.
Propaganda.
What did I lie about?
Where was the lie?
Where was the lie?
Who's paying you Javier?
Who's paying you off?
The pro-Palestinian side started the aggression.
They started the violence when they went and they attacked that Jewish girl that night.
And then things began to escalate.
Don't know what you're talking about.
I mean, that's ridiculous.
That's like saying Matt Turner created he was the cause of the whole issue of white supremacy because he's responding to white supremacy.
That's ridiculous.
And you know it's ridiculous.
Why are we still talking about white supremacy in 2024?
Escalating Tensions and Mistreatment 00:02:31
Why are we still talking about that hundreds of years later?
What do white people do that black people can?
How is white supremacy even still on the forefront of your mind?
You're stuck in the past.
You're stuck in these dated issues.
That's what I'm saying.
No, you're really revealing your ignorance, brother.
You don't think white supremacy has anything to do with what's going on in Gaza at all?
How am I ignorant?
I've been black for 27 years and I have never been inferior to a white person.
What is the white supremacy that is affecting your life?
I would like to hear it.
Nobody in your family is a lot of people.
I would like to hear it.
What can't I do that a white person can do?
I've never been mistreated, right?
You one of the few black people never been mistreated.
Okay, all right.
All right.
I see.
I'm saying that I've never been mistreated.
Every demographic has been mistreated.
White people get mistreated.
I'm talking about because I'm talking about black people getting mistreated.
There are prejudices from every single demographic.
So I don't understand what you think that that is so unique to black people for.
All right.
You know what?
I've got to bring this debate to an end.
It was supposed to be specifically about the protests.
I'm sorry that it got so heated and personally abusive.
I would like to make it clear.
It wasn't your fault, Piers.
I would like to make it clear to Cornell and to Cheng, I'm not a racist and I genuinely care about the safety of Jewish students at that university.
That's it.
And that doesn't mean I don't care about what's happening in Gaza or the journalists there or the universities there or any of those things because actually I do.
And I've expressed my concern about that many times.
Let's see in your reporting.
Let's see it in your reporting.
Well, if you bother to watch it, Cornell, you would know.
If you bothered to watch it, you would know.
Over and over and over again, brother.
That's why I come on your show.
Then you would not call me a racist.
Yeah, well, I'm sorry.
You don't have a right to call me a racist without evidence.
And you didn't have a problem.
No, please, brother.
But the evidence is overwhelming.
You can't even say the IADF is about to terrorist in Palestinians, but Hamas terrorizes all the time.
Palestinian lives don't mean the same as Israeli lives for you.
Admit it.
They do.
Wrestle with that in the midnight hour.
They do.
Wrestle with that in the midnight hour.
They say terrorism when you're at work.
Like I said to you.
I don't think you understand the definition of terrorism.
I value every life.
I value every life as equally important, even yours, Cornell.
How would one of you know?
But listen, I want you to tell me that.
I'm the blackest person in LA County.
I've got to leave it there.
Look, I value all your lives.
I value coming on the program.
I'm sorry things got so personal, but we move on and we'll continue debating it.
I believe that out of all the debate, hopefully we will get some solutions and we'll get to a better place.
So thank you for joining me.
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