Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20240312_ramadan-ceasefire Aired: 2024-03-12 Duration: 21:56 === Rafah Invasion Risks October 7th (09:28) === [00:00:00] We have to move by all estimates pretty decisively and swiftly into Rafah because without holding that area a repeat of October 7th is bound to come. [00:00:11] You have moved them to an area, a densely populated refugee camp, where the Prime Minister of Israel has now indicated he's going to attack and invade. [00:00:19] During the month of Ramadan, you're going to have these displaced Palestinians being bombed by Israel. [00:00:24] So with allies like Israel, who leads enemies? [00:00:26] Netanyahu is only in this war for Netanyahu. [00:00:29] He does not care about the hostages. [00:00:30] You think that actually, if you don't get the hostages back, you should attack Rafah during Ramadan, right? [00:00:35] The State of Israel and the Jewish people have an absolute responsibility to return the hostages as swiftly as possible. [00:00:41] Who is displacing, who is bombing the Palestinians in Gaza? [00:00:44] That is called ethnic cleansing. [00:00:46] I'm not here to be lectured on the tenets of Judaism by anybody on this show. [00:00:52] President Biden warned last week that Israel must agree to a ceasefire before the holy month of Ramadan, adding that failing to do so would result in a very, very dangerous situation. [00:01:01] Biden also said this weekend that an invasion of Rafah, a refugee camp for about half of Gaza's 2.3 million people, would be a red line for the United States. [00:01:11] Well, Ramadan is now upon us, but the war rages on. [00:01:14] And far from pausing the fighting for Islam's sacred month, Benjamin Netanyahu is doubling down. [00:01:20] He says Israel will attack Rafah. [00:01:22] Ultimately, it's Israel that has to decide. [00:01:25] Our neck is on the line. [00:01:26] I'm encouraging you to get off the gas department. [00:01:41] So has the United States lost all influence over its ally and should warfare respect religious sensitivities? [00:01:46] Joining me now to debate this is commentator Vajah Ali and from Israel, former IDF Combat Reservist and CEO of the Mir Yam Institute, Sergeant Benjamin Anthony. [00:01:56] Well welcome to both of you. [00:01:58] Sergeant Benjamin Anthony, welcome to Uncensored. [00:02:01] The first time we've had you on, I appreciate it. [00:02:03] Benjamin Netanyahu, pretty direct and blunt today, that whatever the United States may think about it or say to him, he's going to finish the job of wiping out Hamas. [00:02:15] And if that involves many more casualties, so be it. [00:02:18] How do you morally justify that given the volume of civilians already killed, particularly children? [00:02:26] Well, thank you very much for having me, Piers. [00:02:28] It's a pleasure to be on your show. [00:02:30] And I just take issue with the question right off the bat. [00:02:33] The Prime Minister at no point during any statement at any time has expressed that he is willing to press on regardless of how many people are killed. [00:02:43] He's not said that second part of your question. [00:02:46] He has said that he's determined to continue the military operation, which he must do. [00:02:50] We have not yet reached our objectives, the dual objectives of bringing home our hostages, those kidnapped on October the 7th during the massacre launched by Hamas into southern Gaza. [00:03:01] And we've also not yet come to the point where we have destroyed Hamas's military capabilities. [00:03:06] In order to do the second part of that, we have to move by all estimates pretty decisively and swiftly into Rafah, the city in the southern part of the Gaza Strip, adjacent to the Rafah crossing, appropriately named, because without holding that area, a repeat of October 7th is bound to come. [00:03:27] And fortunately, we learned on October 7th at a time of our enemies' choosing and our enemies' initiation. [00:03:34] It's vital in Rafah. [00:03:37] Most of whom were directed to go there by Israel, most of whom are refugees, many of whom are women and children. [00:03:46] So again, I ask, what is the moral justification for bombing a massive refugee camp? [00:03:54] Well, again, to your question, there is no bombing of any refugee camp over there near Rafah whatsoever. [00:04:02] In fact, the IDF is basically in a holding pattern around the city to the north of Rafah called Khan Yunis. [00:04:08] But let's take what you mentioned. [00:04:10] The very fact, you'll agree, I'm sure, that there are 1.3 million estimated displaced persons inside the Gaza Strip from other areas of the Gaza Strip is testament to the morality of the Israel Defense Forces who have moved those individuals out of the line of fire as we have operated very professionally. [00:04:29] And you've now moved them right into the line of fire. [00:04:31] With respect, Sergeant Anthony, you've moved them to a place that you've now... [00:04:36] With respect, you have moved them to an area, a densely populated refugee camp, where the Prime Minister of Israel has now indicated he's going to attack and invade. [00:04:44] So you've moved them to a place of maximum danger. [00:04:48] So two points on that in order to come directly to your question. [00:04:51] Number one, Rafah is a city. [00:04:54] The idea that it's a refugee camp is purely an anachronism of history. [00:04:58] It's a city. [00:04:58] It's a throne. [00:04:59] How many refugees are there? [00:05:01] With regard to the refugee state. [00:05:05] With regards to the displaced persons who are collected there right now, they're not being bombed. [00:05:10] There is a consequence of the fact that the IDF has moved them to safe shelter. [00:05:14] It's testament to the morality of our activities inside the Gaza Strip and our restraint. [00:05:19] And if needs be, Piers, I can assure you, the IDF will move them north of the area before it operates inside Rafah. [00:05:26] That's the very reason there's a pause in the fighting. [00:05:28] One more thing. [00:05:29] Typically, when there is a mass of displaced persons in the international community, two things are expected of the international community at large. [00:05:38] Number one, that neighboring countries will open their borders to absorb the displaced and the distressed persons. [00:05:45] In this case, that would be Egypt. [00:05:46] Egypt's border should be opened and the displaced should be able to seek succour and refuge inside the Sinai Peninsula. [00:05:53] Egypt is well resourced to take on this task, eminently well resourced to do so, and has a responsibility to do so because it's from Egyptian territory that much of the know-how that underpinned the operation that Hamas launched, the terror operation on October 7th, came. [00:06:08] People would leave Gaza, move into the Sinai, travel to Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and even to Iran, and then come back trained by the Iranians through the Sinai Peninsula, back into the Gaza Strip, ready to launch that attack. [00:06:24] Okay, let me go to Bajah Ali. [00:06:25] You've been listening very patiently there. [00:06:27] Your response. [00:06:29] Well, first and foremost, Ramadan Mubarak, to all those who are celebrating, especially the Palestinians in Gaza, the 2.2 million people, a fourth of them who are being starved right now, 2.2 million who are suffering from famine. [00:06:41] There are still, by the way, many of them, Pierce, who are going to observe during Ramadan. [00:06:45] They're going to be eating animal feed and leaves because of Israel's bombardment that has killed 30,000 Palestinians, 12,000 children, injured 70,000. [00:06:53] And 1.2 million, like you said, Pierce, are now displaced from their homes in Rafah, which is being bombed. [00:06:58] With allies like Israel, who needs enemies? [00:07:01] Joe Biden and the United States has to airdrop humanitarian aid because Israel, the government that I give billions of dollars to, that we give weapons to, is not allowing the United States to give humanitarian aid. [00:07:13] My taxpayer money now has to go build a port in Israel. [00:07:17] By the way, Israel, according to Oslo, should have allowed Palestinians in Gaza to build an airport and a port, but it didn't. [00:07:24] It is occupying Gaza. [00:07:25] And so now we have to build a port. [00:07:27] And while this is happening, during the month of Ramadan, you're going to have these displaced Palestinians being bombed by Israel. [00:07:33] So with allies like Israel, who leads enemies? [00:07:36] And I agree with Thomas Friedman. [00:07:37] I never thought I would agree with Thomas Friedman in his article last week. [00:07:40] He said, and he's a defender of Israel, that this campaign that Netanyahu has launched, this bloody, barbaric campaign, I see your tweets, Pierce, I agree with you, that is killing Palestinians is only hurting Israel and Israel's security, and as we know, has increased both Islamophobia and anti-Semitism around the world. [00:07:57] It has made Jews and Muslims less safe. [00:08:00] As most people in Israel know, Netanyahu is only in this war for Netanyahu. [00:08:05] He does not care about the hostages. [00:08:07] It's been women and children and hostages who have been killed. [00:08:10] Very few Hamas leaders, according to Israel's intelligence, has been killed. [00:08:14] And if the sergeant is actually saying what he's saying, he wants to displace these people to Egypt. [00:08:20] It's Israel's. [00:08:21] It is Israel's responsibility as the occupying power to take care of Palestinians in Gaza and also the West Bank. [00:08:28] Last thing I'll say, Piers, because no one talks about the West Bank. [00:08:31] Hamas does not control the West Bank. [00:08:33] What's the excuse for Israel just last week thumbing the eye of Joe Biden and announcing that they will build 3,400 illegal settlements in the West Bank, where again, Hamas is not in control. [00:08:44] And also 400 people have been killed in the West Bank, including 100 children. [00:08:49] What's the excuse for the occupation of the West Bank, Sergeant? [00:08:53] Sergeant? [00:08:56] Yeah, so first of all, there are so many absurd assertions in my interlocutor's statement just there that I don't really know where to start. [00:09:03] We're here having a conversation about whether or not the Israel Defense, pleasure to meet you, we're here having a conversation about whether or not the Israel Defense Forces should operate in the city of Rafach. [00:09:15] The reason that we're having that conversation is precisely because it is not operating in the city of Rafaq. [00:09:20] It is not bombing the Palestinian Arabs in Rathach. [00:09:23] It is not even attacking and taking apart the remaining battalions of Hamas inside Rafah. === Netanyahu's Logic to Prolong War (12:27) === [00:09:28] It has been repeatedly stated that it will do so only once it has drawn together a viable option for the relocation of those displaced in that area, moved them into another locale where they will be away from the fire, as they have shown their ability to do thus far. [00:09:47] That's the first thing. [00:09:48] The second thing... [00:09:49] One second. [00:09:51] On that point, Sergeant Antiquarian. [00:09:52] Yes, why should Palestinians leave their own home? [00:09:56] Why should they have to leave, as you suggest to go to Egypt? [00:10:01] Why would they trust Israel to ever let them back? [00:10:03] But why should they leave? [00:10:07] Well, what I'm saying to you, Piers, and thank you for your question, is that the typical form of the international community in a case where there are displaced persons in a war zone, regardless of who those persons may be, is twofold. [00:10:19] Number one, it is expected that neighboring countries open their borders to absorb those displaced persons and remove them from the point of distress. [00:10:28] Secondly, it's expected that non-neighboring countries in the international community do the very same. [00:10:33] I'll give you two examples so that people are aware of it. [00:10:36] First of all, with regards to the Syrian civil war, nothing to do with the state of Israel. [00:10:41] In that particular case, Turkey, a neighboring country, absorbed about 3 million Syrian refugees during the course of that war. [00:10:49] Germany, a non-neighboring country, absorbed Absorbed more than a million. [00:10:53] When it came to the war of Russia against Ukraine, Ukraine's neighbour Poland absorbed many refugees from Ukraine into its borders, as was expected by the international community. [00:11:05] And many countries who did not neighbor Ukraine also accepted refugees, including my country, the State of Israel, which was very pleased to be invaded by the United States. [00:11:16] It's only if I can just finish, if I can just finish, I didn't interrupt you, if I can just conclude. [00:11:21] Sure, sure. [00:11:22] It's only in the case of the Palestinian Arabs that people such as you, sir, insist that not only must no country open its borders to them, must they not seek refuge even in a neighbouring country eminently resourced to do so, such as Egypt, but also that only the Palestinian Arabs in the list of displaced persons around the world, they uniquely wish to stay exactly where they are, in distress, emiserated not by Israel, not by the Israel Defence Forces, as you falsely assert, but by Hamas, [00:11:51] who launched a terror campaign with the mandate of the people into the state of Israel, murdered, may I remind everybody, 1,200 people, kidnapped 200 people, 136 of which are still in the country. [00:12:03] Sergeant Antony just asked 19 of whom are women, and the US has expressed that sexual assault and rape has been used against those women during captivity. [00:12:13] So I think we have to operate there, Piers, in answer to your question. [00:12:16] Yes, but I do remember that many Israelis were particularly offended that they chose a Jewish holiday on which to commit that atrocity on October the 7th. [00:12:26] Why are you now planning to attack Rafah during Ramadan? [00:12:31] I mean, isn't that completely why are you asking me that question as though that's something that I've said? [00:12:36] You've not even asked me whether or not we're ready to do it. [00:12:38] Are you asking me or are you asking why the State of Israel is ready? [00:12:41] And why do you assume that that would be my opinion without asking me? [00:12:44] What is your opinion? [00:12:46] My opinion is the following. [00:12:48] The people of the Muslim faith are not the only ones who have an adherence to a religious code. [00:12:53] I've seen on your show many, many times that people have quoted texts and passages in Arabic. [00:13:00] That's perfectly fine and appropriate for people to do. [00:13:03] Let me quote something in Hebrew. [00:13:06] En mitzvah kapidjon shvoyim. [00:13:09] There is no commandment greater than the release of hostages. [00:13:14] That is one of the highest responsibilities of the Jewish people. [00:13:17] For every day they're held in captivity. [00:13:20] They are seen to be bleeding out of the country. [00:13:21] What is your opinion, though, of attacking Rafah during Ramadan? [00:13:26] Very straightforward. [00:13:27] In the event that we can bring about a deal, given what I've just said about the urgency of bringing our hostages home, in the event that we can strike a deal where those hostages start to be returned, as we saw in previous hostage releases, I think that the IDF would do well to hang fire until those hostages are released. [00:13:48] If you don't get the hostages back, to be clear, if you don't get the hostages back, then you're saying in the event that the hostages don't come back, the Israel Defence Forces should move forward according to the calendar of its responsibility to its citizens. [00:14:06] No other artificial calendar inside the Gaza Strip. [00:14:11] Look, with respect, you were all indignant when I suggested that you might agree with Netanyahu about this. [00:14:16] Actually, you agree with him. [00:14:18] You think that actually, if you don't get the hostages back, you should attack Rafah during Ramadan, right? [00:14:25] I think that the state of Israel and the Jewish people have an absolute responsibility to return the hostages as swiftly as possible, particularly given that the United Nations, in its independent report on sex as a weapon of war, has determined that our hostages, including the 19 women who are there, are likely being continually raped and sexually assaulted in Hamas captivity. [00:14:47] If you think that anyone Extraction of those hostages. [00:14:51] Bajah Ali, I mean, you've heard there, Sergeant Anthony, basically endorsing Prime Minister Netanyahu's view, which is that there should be no barrier to attacking Rafah during Ramadan. [00:15:03] That will clearly be extremely incendiary, I would imagine, to the Muslim world. [00:15:09] What do you feel about that? [00:15:10] And is there a hypocrisy from the Muslim world, given that Hamas attacked Israel on a Jewish holiday? [00:15:17] So I will answer then, and I'll also say who is displacing the Palestinians in Gaza? [00:15:21] Israel. [00:15:22] Who is bombing the Palestinians in Gaza? [00:15:24] Israel. [00:15:24] Who is starving the Palestinians in Gaza? [00:15:27] Israel. [00:15:27] Who is occupying the West Bank and Gaza? [00:15:29] Israel. [00:15:30] Whose responsibility is it to take care of the Palestinians? [00:15:34] Israel. [00:15:34] If the sergeant really believes that he wants to transfer these Palestinians in Gaza to Egypt, that is called ethnic cleansing. [00:15:43] That is genocidal. [00:15:44] Secondly, when he talked about the attacking during a religious holiday, of course it will be incendiary, not just for Muslims, but the entire world. [00:15:54] It is the majority of Americans, independents, Republicans, and also Democrats who want to cease fire. [00:16:01] The majority of the world, Pierce, wants a ceasefire. [00:16:04] It's not just Muslims. [00:16:05] And Hamas, which is a terrorist organization, a militant group, it attacked 12, killed 1,200 Jews during the end of Sukkot, the Jewish holiday. [00:16:14] Israel is allegedly the most moral army. [00:16:16] Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. [00:16:18] Israel gets billions of dollars from the United States of America. [00:16:21] So why is Israel then behaving like Hamas, a terrorist group according to the United States? [00:16:26] Why is Israel 10 times, 20 times as worse as Hamas, killing 30,000 people, overwhelming majority of civilians? [00:16:33] What moral high ground does Israel have and why should they expect the world to support it? [00:16:37] And finally, I'll say, studying Judaism, one of the highest aspects, one of the highest, if you will, the foundation of Judaism, which is shared with Islam, is you have to save life. [00:16:47] You have to preserve life. [00:16:48] Saving one life is like saving generations. [00:16:50] How many generations is Netanyahu and Israel destroying with this war that has not killed Hamas, that has not weakened Hamas, that has killed civilians, that has displaced 1.2 million people, and is earning the anger of the world. [00:17:04] It is isolating itself. [00:17:05] It is making itself less secure. [00:17:07] And as we know from the family members of the hostage members, they know that Netyahu does not care about the hostages. [00:17:13] That's why they're protesting the government right now. [00:17:15] In Israel, folks, the Israeli Jewish family members of the hostages are protesting Netyahu's government because they know this extremely unpopular leader, if the war were to end, what would happen to him, Pierce? [00:17:28] You know he would have to resign. [00:17:30] So for him, he has to keep the war going. [00:17:32] Well, I do. [00:17:32] I have to say, Sergeant Anthony, I do think that's a reality, Sergeant Anthony. [00:17:37] I do think Prime Minister Netanyahu, the polls show two things in Israel. [00:17:41] One is that he's extremely unpopular. [00:17:43] That speech is the reality, Pierce. [00:17:45] Well, let me just say to you what I think about this. [00:17:47] I think there are two schools of thought in Israel. [00:17:49] One is that Prime Minister Netanyahu should resign and take accountability for what happened on October the 7th. [00:17:56] But the second school of thought is that the majority of Israelis believe that it is right to try and finish off Hamas. [00:18:03] So you can understand why if you're Netanyahu and you know that your own people want to get you out of office the moment this is over, there is a logic to prolonging this until you absolutely have to end it, particularly if your mission statement is to get rid of every Hamas terrorist, which most military experts I've heard commenting on this think is impossible anyway because you can't kill the ideology. [00:18:28] Yeah, so first of all, I just want to push back. [00:18:30] I'm not here to be lectured on the tenets of Judaism by anybody on this show. [00:18:35] I'm very comfortable with the series of priorities that I'm familiar with Judaism putting forward. [00:18:40] And I repeat, the highest priority at this stage under these circumstances is to bring our hostages home. [00:18:45] Secondly, unlike what was just said, Israel is absolutely taking apart Hamas. [00:18:50] We've destroyed 20 of the 24 battalions that Hamas has. [00:18:54] The rest remain in Rafah, and we will operate in Rafah once we are able to move the civilian population from that area out of harm's way. [00:19:03] I remind everybody they are there because of our moral code. [00:19:06] In addition to that, the notion that Israelis do not want Prime Minister Netanyahu to go and finish the job inside the Gaza Strip is utterly false. [00:19:16] It's something that's been asserted here on this show without any basis to it. [00:19:20] I literally just said that the Israeli people do support reporting. [00:19:24] I literally just said that. [00:19:26] Not you, Piers. [00:19:27] Not you. [00:19:27] Not you. [00:19:28] Forgive me the name of the gentleman I'm speaking to. [00:19:30] I can't see him across his name on the screen. [00:19:32] I said he's very unpopular, which is true. [00:19:35] He is extremely unpopular. [00:19:36] Three-fourths of Israelis do not like Netyahu. [00:19:40] That is absolutely nothing to do with public support for his ongoing movement and advance of this war. [00:19:47] It is absolutely expected by the Israeli people who are invested in this fight, who felt the horrors of Hamas on their flesh. [00:19:55] It is absolutely expected by them that their Prime Minister, whether it's Prime Minister Netanyahu or anybody else, will go on and finish the task. [00:20:01] And by the way, in response to what you said about Israel's responsibility for everything that's going on inside the Gaza Strip at this time, you give me the numbers, sir, of the killed there inside the Gaza Strip on October 6th, the day before October 7th. [00:20:17] You give me the numbers of the children that were being reported starving inside the Gaza Strip on October 6th, the day before October 7th. [00:20:25] You give me the numbers of the Gazans who had to move out of harm's way as the state of Israel had to go and release its hostages from the Gaza Strip on October 6th, the day before October 7th. [00:20:37] The answer is nothing. [00:20:38] The answer is zero. [00:20:40] And the reason for that is because everything that is taking place inside the Gaza Strip right now, make no mistake about it, folks who are watching this, is solely the responsibility of Hamas, who launched a depraved massacre against innocent civilians inside the state of Israel. [00:20:56] We're running out of time. [00:20:57] I want to give you a lot of time. [00:21:00] Sergeant Anthony, we're running out of time. [00:21:02] I want to give Vajah Ali the last word as he's been waiting patiently. [00:21:06] So, Vajah. [00:21:08] One number, 57. [00:21:10] That's the number of years that Israel has occupied the West back in Gaza. [00:21:14] As anyone knows, as long as the occupation continues, as long as Palestinians are being occupied, denied their rights, as long as there's no pathway towards any independence or statehood, which Netanyahu says he does not want, the cycle of violence will repeat. [00:21:26] It will increase extremism. [00:21:28] Jews, Muslims, Palestinians, Arabs will not be safe. [00:21:31] It is in the interest of Israelis and Palestinians for a future. [00:21:34] And with both of them, have self-determination, peace, and security. [00:21:37] They will not get that with this war. [00:21:39] They will not get that with Netyahu. [00:21:41] Vajah, Ali, and Sergeant Benjamin for the United States. [00:21:44] I've got to be released by the police. [00:21:46] I'm giving you both people to power. [00:21:48] I'm giving you both equal time. [00:21:49] Sergeant Anthony, I appreciate you joining me. [00:21:51] Thank you very much. [00:21:52] Vajahat, thank you very much. [00:21:53] I appreciate you joining us. [00:21:55] I appreciate it. [00:21:56] Thank you.