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Nov. 21, 2023 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
47:21
20231121_piers-morgan-uncensored-andrew-tate-and-tristan-ta
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Terrorism and Retaliation 00:15:16
Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensored, Andrew Tate is one of the most influential men in the world.
He's a businessman, a mogul, and to many people, a misogynist.
Well, since last year, he's also a practicing Muslim.
And as Israel wages war on Hamas, he stirred his followers with furious tirades against Israel's response to the October 7th attacks.
Tonight, I put those views to the test.
Why do you support Hamas?
I support justice in the universe.
I support justice in the universe.
Do you support Hamas?
No.
And for the first time, his brother and confidant, Tristan, who's facing the same very serious criminal charges, joins me and is also uncensored.
What don't you like about his views?
Well, the major one.
I want to turn to the war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.
What is your view of this war?
I think when you call it a war, you're doing a disservice to the people who are having their limbs blown off by some of the most advanced technical weaponry on the planet.
It is a genocide and it is disgusting.
And it doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum you fall on.
When you observe a genocide in front of your very eyes, you should be disgusting.
Which side is waging genocide?
The Israelis are genociding the Palestinians and you know it as well as everybody else.
Who doesn't know that?
Well then it seems like your bosses are not allowing you to know it.
What do you think of what Hamas did on October the 7th?
Why are you starting the story in the middle?
I didn't.
I just asked you about the wider war.
I'm now asking you.
I can't professionally.
I cannot professionally answer that question without talking about the context that led up to October 7th.
Well nothing to my mind justifies what happened on October the 7th.
Nothing justifies what happened before October the 7th, Piers.
This is the exact point.
So you're talking to a man.
I don't know what answer you expect from me because let's forget the fact that I'm a Muslim.
You're talking to a man who is fighting oppression to the best of his ability because he believes that the people in charge of the world are enslaving us all to the point where I detriment my own life.
I end up in a jail cell because I'm speaking against oppression.
Then you're asking me what I would do if my family was blown to pieces.
You're not in a jail.
Hang on.
You're asking me what I would do if another government came along and blew my family to pieces.
You weren't put in a jail cell because of any oppression.
Absolutely I was.
You weren't?
Of course you were.
You were put in jail cell because you've been accused of serious sexuality.
I would not have been accused if I was not monumentally successful in speaking the truth.
Let me ask you again.
It's a simple question.
Some people can answer it straight away, including pro-Palestinians, people I've had on my program.
Many are very quick to say absolutely.
Do you believe Hamas are a terror organization?
And that's a very interesting question, but I think you're peddling asoninities.
Well, just answer the question.
Could somebody do me a favor, Google Asoninities and find out if it's not.
I know what it means.
If it's not, make sure it's added to Webster on Top G's Order.
Okay.
Just, are they a terror group?
You're peddling asoninities, because I'll tell you why, Piers.
Let me answer.
No, you're not.
Of course you are.
Simple question.
That's like me asking.
Tell me why I ask.
Because the UK, where you were born, prescribes Hamas as a terrorist.
They also prescribe me as dangerous to children in schools.
Let me explain something to you, Piers.
You're not going to be able to do this.
If I were to sit here and say, is stealing wrong?
And you'd say yes, and I'd go, ah, but what if the person stealing is trying to feed their family and if they don't, their family are going to die?
Is it still wrong?
You're trying to take a very nuanced and complicated argument and reduce it down to one sentence, which is failure.
You're trying to equate stealing with a mob of terrorists breaking over a border, going to peaceful.
Is that what Israel did?
Wait a minute.
A mob of terrorists breaking over a border and killing people.
Is that what Israel did?
Going through a border on October the 7th.
Oh, October the 7th?
Massacring young people at a festival, massacring families in their homes and setting fire to them, cutting their heads off, killing babies.
Oh, killing babies.
That was true.
Well, fine.
Were the babies vaccinated?
Why are you being flippant?
I'm not being flippant.
The point I am making.
You don't find that funny.
No, but the point I am making is that the media lies.
Firstly.
Secondly, I'm going to ask you, we can ask, I can ask you about different things at the same time, right?
So I'm asking you, first of all, specifically, what is your reaction to what happened on October the 7th?
Sure.
I'll answer the question professionally.
I do not condone the loss of human life on either side.
I think anybody doing anything which directly damages civilians is disgusting and abhorrent.
However, I would be an amateur if I could not sit and pretend I do not understand the motivations behind either side.
This is not even me taking a side.
I understand why Israel is doing what it's doing.
I understand why Palestine is doing what it is doing.
However, I still call the Israeli actions absolutely abhorrent and genocidal.
Okay, we're going to come to Israel's actions.
I promise you.
We will ask that question specifically.
But in terms of what Hamas did on October the 7th, do you accept that was an act of terrorism?
It's an interesting question because once you're...
Not really.
It is.
No, it's not.
It's very straightforward, but...
Because you're the person who would have called Nelson Mandela a terrorist while he was still in jail.
And one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
For me to answer the question...
Yes, you would have.
For me to answer the question, I have to be very professional, Pierce.
For me to sit on the outside in Romania with no personal involvement in Israel-Palestine, it's easy for me to say, yes, it was an act of terror.
However, if I was in Gaza, if I was in an open-air prison, if my family had been annihilated by bombs from the sky, if everybody I knew had suffered the loss of a loved one, if I had no chance of any kind of freedom or democracy or standard of life, would I believe it was an act of terror or would I believe it's an act of resistance against oppression?
You have to be very careful how you answer these questions.
So what do you think?
I think I understand what happens when you take people and put them in such an inhumane condition.
For anybody to sit and say that you're going to take people and put them in absolutely inhumane conditions and give them no standard of life and they're not allowed to ever fight back or they are anyone who does it is an amateur.
I can agree with you that the plight of the Palestinians for many decades has been absolutely shameful.
So what did we think was going to happen, Pierce?
No, nothing justifies what happened on October 7th.
So what are they supposed to do?
Nothing.
So what are they supposed to do?
That was an act of medieval barbaric terrorism.
Nothing justifies that.
Did they suffer acts of medieval terror?
Did they suffer acts of medieval barbaric terrorism before that date?
Yes.
And it's unfortunately an eye for an eye in this world.
I'm not condoning.
I'm being a professional and answering why it happened.
Let me tell you the reality of the world.
What Hamas did was an act of terror.
An absolutely despicable act of terror and should be called exactly what it is.
And they are now demonstrably a terrorist group.
That is why they were rightly prescribed that by the UK and America and other countries.
And to try and pretend they're not makes you sound like Jeremy Corbyn.
And I can't think of a worse insult to throw at you, right?
I don't think me and Corinne would agree on that.
But I also think there are legitimate questions to come about the way Israel's responded.
We can come to that.
But I just want to ask you one more time.
Is what Hamas did on October the 7th an act of terrorism?
I think, Pierce, it is peddling asin entities for you to pretend that enslaving the...
You sound like Jeremy Corbyn.
No, let me answer the question.
15 times he refused to answer the question.
Let me answer the question.
You're now asking me.
I'm not refusing.
You're not three or four.
Are they a terror group or not?
They're one team's freedom fighter and they're deemed a terrorist group.
What do you think?
I think that if you lock people in an open-air prison and steal their land, they're going to retaliate.
So they're not a terror group?
I think they're going to retaliate.
They're not a terror group.
One team's terrorist is a good terrorist terrorist.
Okay, we're now talking about eight.
Are they a terror group?
And also, another thing I want to make clear to you, Pierce.
Only Jeremy Corbyn has done this.
Done what?
Refused to answer the question.
I think that what they are doing is seemingly deemed an act of terror by the people that the terrorists...
Don't use weasly words.
They're not weasily.
Of course the Israelis think they're a terror group and of course the Palestinians think they're freedom fighters.
Most people are stupid that you're asking the question.
Most of the civilized world thinks they're a terror group who committed an act of terrorism.
It's not difficult.
What they did was an act of terrorism.
And I think that if Israel continues to conduct acts of terror on the Palestinian people, they're going to do nothing but strengthen the reaction.
That's a different conversation I'm about to have with you about Israel's response.
But before I get there, one more time, is Hamas a terror group who committed an act of terrorism?
I think that when you lock people in an open-air prison, you're going to have to do retaliation.
No, because I have to, there's people who are...
Firstly, first things I want to say, Pierre.
If you don't mind me saying, I think it's spineless.
Sure.
I do.
That's fine.
You sound like Jeremy Corbyn.
Well, that isn't.
Did you see my interview with him?
No.
Right.
15 times last week, I asked him the same question.
15 times, he prevaricated and wouldn't answer.
Eventually, when someone does that enough times, you know what they really think.
Okay.
You don't think they're a terror group.
Let me answer a question.
You don't think they're a terror group.
No, what I think is this.
On certain situations.
So I'm really curious what you think an act of terror is if it's not massacring 1,500 innocent people.
It's not.
Including Holocaust survivors.
Pierce.
Kidnapping babies.
Decapitating people.
Cutting their limbs off.
Raping women.
Yeah, talk about missing limbs.
We're going to talk about that when we talk about what Israel has done.
But when we get there, it'll be in the context of you not admitting that was an act of terrorists.
Well, let me answer the question for the final time.
I am a realist.
And as a realist, sometimes you do not come to the conclusion of labeling good guys and bad guys.
The world is not black and white.
Oh, Hamas and bad guys.
No, the world is not black and white.
The world is actually very gray.
Anybody who sits and thinks there's nothing to do with the world.
Clearly a good guy.
There's nothing that's not a good idea.
There's clearly a good guy and clearly a bad guy does not understand how the world works.
And as a realist, what you do is you look at scenarios and you understand why they happen, how unfortunate they are, how unfortunate the loss of human life is, how civilians die on both sides, how innocents are dying in a chess game played by the elites on both sides.
Both sides, you have innocent people who didn't even vote for the person making the decisions who are ensuring their death, signing their death warrants.
It's unfortunate on both sides.
But listen, sir, you would not advocate Russia doing any of the things to Ukraine that Israel is doing to Palestine.
You would not see.
Russia has been doing exactly that.
Russia has not done a fraction of the US.
Russia illegally has to do with Russia illegally invaded a sovereign democratic country and has committed a barbaric rampage, trying to seize as much of Ukraine as it can, bombing maternity hospitals.
Let me ask you a question.
Let me ask you a question.
Don't even try and have some kind of...
No, no, this is genuine question.
I will.
A Hamas rocket, a tiny Hamas rocket that can make a pothole in the road, and then they get hit back with cruise missiles.
Let me ask you a question.
Ukraine sent a drone and it hit the Kremlin, a drone attack.
It did nothing.
It damaged some shingles.
If Russia decided to then respond with a missile attack on a hospital and annihilate 800 people, do you think that would be allowed?
That's exactly what it has been.
Would you advocate for that?
Have you seen that?
Would you support that?
Have you seen the state of Mariupol?
Would they level to the ground?
The Ukrainians did level to the ground.
No, the Russians did.
2014.
The Russians.
They leveled Mariupol.
And my question to you is: would you advocate those reactions?
Let me ask you another question, Pierce.
This is a genuine question.
Let me ask you a question.
I want to understand your point of view.
This is actually my interview of you.
Yeah, but you tried to understand mine.
I just want to understand your point of view.
If I believed, or if Israel believed, that one of the people in your house was a terrorist and decided to destroy your entire house and kill your entire family, would you sit and say, well, maybe there was a terrorist inside.
I accept that.
Or would you be enraged?
Genuine question.
I don't think you can take an individual person's response.
Well, it's a bunch of individual people in Gaza.
They're people, individuals with thoughts and dreams and aspirations which are being annihilated.
15-year-old girls without legs going cruise missiles.
They are individual people.
They're not cattle people.
Let's come to them.
They're people.
Right, and so were the people in Israel on October the 1st.
And that's why it's so heinous, which is my exact point.
But not heinous enough to reach your bar of terrorism.
It's not about reaching a bar of terrorists.
It's understanding why things happen.
By not saying it, you've made your position clear, just as Jeremy Corbyn did.
And to pretend you're any different is ridiculous.
Let's move on to Israel's response.
Because there are legitimate questions about this.
Hamas embeds itself, 35,000, 40,000 terrorists, in my estimation.
You can call them whatever you like.
And they're embedded amongst the civilian population, predominantly in northern Gaza.
We know from intelligence over the last 20 years.
Which you won't believe because the Matrix has made it all up.
We know from intelligence that historically Hamas likes to embed itself, particularly around things like schools and hospitals and mosques, because that makes it more difficult if the Israelis attack.
Now, Israel has killed nearly 12,000 people in its response, right?
There are many people around the world demanding a ceasefire who think that is a ridiculously disproportionate response to what happened.
Well, it was genocide.
They would want to kill everyone in Palestine.
They don't.
They just want to drive them all out.
Whereas Hamas do want to kill every Jew.
That is actually what genocide is.
You know what's actually interesting?
Because you've spoken about this subject of people more who actually understand the conflict better than I do.
Muhammad Hijab understands it better.
Low-key understands it better.
I'm talking from a very general humanistic perspective because I don't understand that absolute intricacies like they do.
Do you know what genocide means?
Of course I do.
Right.
Genocide means you want to eradicate an entire people based on race or ethnicity.
Israel clearly doesn't want to do that to the Palestinian people.
Clearly not.
If he did, it wouldn't tell a million of them, as it turned out, who moved south.
Now, there are arguments about whether...
To attack them as they moved.
Well, some people got hit as they moved.
Oh, some people got hit.
Some people got hit.
You know what?
You know what happens?
You know what, Andrew?
Wait till it's your son's.
Wait till it's your son.
I agree.
And you know what, Andrew?
War is horrific.
It's horrific.
The question is, is it a just war for Israel to go after Hamas?
And if it is, and you believe as I do, that Hamas has to be got rid of, how do you do that?
If you don't do it the way Israel is doing it, how do you get rid of that terror group?
Now, you won't agree with anything they're doing because you can't even categorize them as a terror group.
No, the reason I won't agree with them is because I'm a human, Piers.
And please let me answer this without being interrupted.
You didn't answer my earlier question for a reason because you knew that you couldn't answer it without my point.
The question about the fact that if they decided to cruise missile your house because they thought somebody inside was a terrorist, you would not accept the loss of your family that you have raised.
You would not accept the loss.
Okay, absolutely.
So let me answer this as a professional.
What's funny is I'm a humanist.
Like I said, professional what, by the way?
The professional.
Please let me answer.
Let me answer.
What are you at?
What are you talking about?
I'm saying you're a professional.
And I'm talking about this from a humanistic perspective, right?
And like I said, you've talked to people more knowledgeable than me on the details of the subject.
Listen to me very carefully.
I thought we lived in a democratic society.
You just had 35,000 Hamas terrorists.
And this is the thing that's most upsetting to me.
This is what genuinely upsets me.
Israel intelligence will say a guy's a Hamas terrorist.
Has that guy gone to a court of law?
Has there been a democratic process?
Has he been proven to be a terrorist?
No.
They've just decided from their intelligence that couldn't see an invasion coming from hundreds of miles away.
So this intelligence is not great.
So they've decided this person might be an intelligence without court case, without any kind of democratic process.
And because of that, they've decided to annihilate civilians along with him.
And it's all just collateral damage and nobody should care.
That is not a humanistic perspective.
And that is disgusting.
And any person in the West who is advocating for that is a hypocrite.
Because if it was turned on them, if the American government said, we think the person in your shopping mall, one of the people you were shopping alongside in the mall, might have committed a crime, we didn't take them to court, we think they might have, so we killed your whole family.
Get over it.
So the last guy is a clown and a hypocrite.
So the last time you wanted to respond.
What do you expect full-grown men to do when you kill all of their families and leave them locked in an open area?
We respond.
Disproportionate Response 00:06:01
The last time that Jewish people face an existential threat was in World War II.
And the Nazis, who wanted to take over the world and kill every Jewish person, the Nazis were ultimately defeated by Winston Churchill leading the Allies.
And Winston Churchill, in the process of defeating the Nazis, killed a lot of German innocent civilians in the process.
Do you think that was justified?
Let me ask a question.
Was it what?
I asked the questions.
Was it justified?
Sir, I believe, and let me just get this right in my head.
Yeah, think about it.
No, I don't need to think about your question.
I believe that the Nazis, which were obviously heinous, I'm not advocating anything to do.
It's disgusting, the Nazis.
I'm glad we beat them.
I'm actually a huge fan of them.
Were they terrorists?
Yeah, they were.
Right.
So I believe that they...
So when you massacre Jewish people, you're terrorists.
Except when you do it in Israel.
When you try and conduct genocide on a populace because you don't want them on land you say is yours, then you are terrorists.
That's exactly what Hamas did on October 7th.
After what Israel had did before that.
So you've literally just described what Hamas do.
You just described what Israel do.
They're trying to genocide the Palestinians as we speak.
And this is the exact point.
So the city of Israel...
No, but the city are Israel.
Do you think Israel are terrorists?
I think that what they're doing now is disproportionate and genocide.
Is it terrorism?
It's genocidal, so I guess that makes a terrorism.
So they're terrorists for responding to an act of terror, but the people who committed the act of terror are not terrorists.
The way in which they're responding is...
You see the problem in that argument?
No.
Really?
Pierce, what they are doing now.
Slaughtering 1,500 people and the way they did it is not an act of terror by terrorists, but a response from the people on the receiving end, rather like the response to World War II people.
To what the Nazis did, that apparently is the only act of terrorism.
Didn't you say 12,000 people the Israelis have killed thus far?
Yes.
I saw a video of a 15-year-old girl with no legs begging to die.
She was begging to die, saying, I have no future because my parents are gone or my legs are gone.
Terrific.
There's no future.
No, but you say that, right?
You talk about numbers and statistics, and you say a few people got caught.
You don't think of Gazans and you don't think of as Muslims and Palestinians as individual people.
Oh, yes, I do.
No, you don't.
Because if you did, if you did, you would not be happy with what you're saying.
Why don't you dare say that about me?
Well, okay, but don't put them together in numbers.
No, no, I'm not sure.
They're not numbers.
I've spoken for many years about the plight of the Palestinian people.
I think it's outrageous that Israel has any control over their ability to function with water, with fuel, with other energy, and so on.
Food is not.
That's interesting.
If you were in Gaza as a Gazaian male of masculine fighting age and you believed the things you currently believe, what would you do about it?
I'm just asking.
You know what?
Nothing justifies the terrorism we're talking about.
I never said you'd be a terrorist.
I'm asking what you do.
No, no.
I understand why people in Palestine feel oppressed.
I understand why they want freedom.
I understand why they want the same rights as the people in Israel.
Then here's a perfect.
On that we agree.
Absolutely.
But nothing, nothing justifies what happened on October 7th.
Well, here's where we disagree, Piers, because as a professional, when we both agree on the point that the people inside of Gaza are being oppressed and that their life is being detrimental and that they have no way of getting out, we as a professional.
And I do agree with that.
I understand pressure cookers explode.
You're pretending they shouldn't.
You're saying that they should never explode.
Nothing bad should ever happen.
Nothing justifies terrorism.
You should just be allowed to subjugate them for endless years.
Here's my nothing happened.
No.
And I'm a realist to understand that pressure cookers explode.
No, you're not.
That's what happened.
No, you're not.
We need a solution to the problem and will continue to happen.
You're not a realist because actually you are not accepting that what they did on October the 7th was an act of terrorism by terrorists.
You won't accept that.
You think actually they're freedom fighters doing some kind of resistance.
And I say that is ridiculous and shameful.
That's the difference between us.
I understand that pressure cookers explode, Pierce.
Right.
So you think it's perfectly reasonable what happened there?
I don't think it's reasonable.
I think it's a shame.
Natural consequence.
I think it's a shame.
A shame.
That's it.
I think it's a shame that we're living in the world now where people are reduced to basically suicide to try and fight for freedom for their families if they have one left.
Because they all committed suicide, those men who did that.
Well, the Hamas.
They didn't have a chance of survival.
I think when you were told that it was a good idea.
Well, that's because they believe that they're marching themselves and going to abandon them.
So when you oppress people to the point where their family's dead and they have nothing to live for.
I think that's a shame.
So do you support Islamic fundamentalism?
Absolutely not.
Do you support an Islamist ideology?
Absolutely not.
Right.
What I support.
So why do you support Hamas?
I support justice in the US.
You support Hamas.
I support justice in the universe.
Do you support Hamas?
No.
You don't?
Well, I don't know the ins and outs of Hamas' creed.
I have to be very honest.
Well, you know what they did in October the 7th?
Do you support them?
I understand why that happened, and I'm saying it's a shame.
But you won't denounce them.
I say it's a shame.
Will you condemn them?
I can't sit here and condemn the obvious outcome of the consequence.
Really?
How can I condemn it?
You can't condemn Hamas for what they did.
Well, we know what's going to happen, and we need a solution.
You're very quick to condemn Israel's response, but you won't condemn the terror attack which prompted it.
No, I'll tell you why.
Even though Hamas knew by doing what they were doing, that would be the response.
Do you think they knew that?
Of course they knew that.
Do you think they knew that Israel?
They did it quite deliberately.
You know why?
Because they were funded and supported by Iran.
They didn't like the fact that Israel was normalizing relations with a bunch of Arab countries, from the UAE to Bahrain to Morocco, and then coming down the line was going to be Saudi Arabia.
That was a threat to the Iran view of what should be happening in that region.
Iran are the ones who support and fund and arm Hamas.
And they, clearly, in my estimation, that hasn't been properly established yet, but clearly Hamas couldn't have done this on their own.
They've done it with support from Iran, and they've gone and committed an act of such heinous atrocity that they knew what the response would be.
And that means that they sentenced in that moment not just 1,500 people in Israel to death in the most appalling manner possible, but they also sentenced to death thousands and thousands of innocent Palestinians, including many innocent children, because half the population are children, and Hamas knew that was what was going to happen.
So my question is, how can anyone think that Hamas is a force for good?
I don't say a force for good.
I said they're unfortunate.
No, I didn't say they're a force for good.
I said it's a pressure cooker and it's a shame.
You won't even connect.
Hypocrisy and Peace Terms 00:10:49
Let me ask the question.
Do you think if we gave the Palestinian people basic human rights that Hamas would find it more difficult to recruit new soldiers?
Yeah, look, I think.
Probably if we treat them like humans.
This won't happen.
So we agree and let's move on.
I think there's a real danger in the scale of Israel's response that you radicalize a whole new generation of Palestinians.
I think that's a real danger.
And by the way, I've said that.
We can agree on that.
So perhaps it was Israel's actions before October 7th that radicalized the soldiers who invaded.
So you agree with me?
So let's move on.
No, I don't.
No, nothing justifies what they did.
Let me ask you about the reaction that you've had from certain people who I think at one stage you had a good relationship with.
One is Jordan Peterson, and the other one, Ben Shapiro.
Let's talk about Jordan first.
Sure.
You've had a bit of a to and fro with him, but what is your view of him?
I think Jordan and I actually agree on many issues.
I think the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
I think we have a lot more in common than we have that we disagree on.
We have different views of the world on certain things.
I think we approach him from different places.
He's far more in his mind, whereas I'd have been more in a physical realm than he does.
I have nothing against Jordan.
I don't dislike him.
I do find it, and I must be honest, a bit disingenuous and hypocritical that he speaks mental strength and then ends up addicted to an antidepressant.
I don't think he should ever take antidepressants ever.
I've been through worse than what he's been through, and I didn't take a single drug.
However, I have nothing against the guy.
He says very intelligent things, and I'd be interested to argue with him or discuss or debate with him, but I think we'd actually agree on most points, to be honest with you.
I don't think we, I mean, he may be unhappy with somehow how I've lived my life and some things I've done, but we've already discussed the fact that I come from the lowest income area of the UK and most people around me were selling drugs, so at least I didn't do that.
So I'm not going to allow somebody who's a professor at a university who's had an easy life to come along and tell me how people from the streets should survive.
You have to find a way out.
Let's get rich or die trying.
But I have nothing against the guy.
I just think that he's been a bit hypocritical.
And then, truthfully, the only time I've been genuinely a bit appalled by any of his actions was the tweet he made on Israel-Palestine, when he said, give them hell.
I know that's an easy thing to say, and it's an expression that people use, and they throw it around flippantly.
But I think when you actually wish hell upon other human beings, I think it's a disgusting thing to do, because hell is that 15-year-old girl with no legs, and her parents were dead.
Well, hello.
You see her crying her eyes out, begging to die.
That is hell.
And I don't think you should genuinely wish hell on anyone, Israel or Palestinian, either, anyone.
I'm a humanist.
I don't want anybody to die.
Well, he did.
And when he was wishing hell on an entire population, he did express regret for the way he phrased it.
And he should.
And he's disgusting.
I've not wished hell on the Israelis.
I've not wished hell on the Israeli state.
I don't want any Israeli civilian to go through what that 15-year-old Palestinian girl's going through.
Not a single one.
He said about you, Jordan Peterson.
I'm not particularly happy to be grouped with Andrew Tate.
I think there are some elements about what he does that are quite reprehensible.
I'm sure he has.
I don't know everything he says, and he may disagree with some of my points of view.
As I said, I have nothing against him.
I don't think anything he says is particularly wrong.
I think that he's hypocritical because of the anti-depression problem, and I think that the fact he wishes hell on other humans because he gets emotionally involved in a conflict, which within two minutes of it sparking off, he's wishing genocide.
I think that says a lot about his personality.
But overall, when he speaks at length, a lot of the things he says are pretty well thought through and pretty constructive.
I have nothing against the guy.
Let me turn to Ben Shapiro.
He said, let me assure you, as someone who's not pimped women and bragged about it, that morality requires that those who rape women and kidnap women must be eradicated, not negotiated with.
He says on my show, I won't be lectured on morality and toughness by Andrew Tate.
His great idea of toughness and morality is pimping women and bragging about it on air and then trying to quasi-walk it back while simultaneously maintaining many of the same positions and flexing his biceps.
Listen, everyone should be able to tweet whatever it is they want.
I'm more for an open discourse, even with people who I think are dead wrong on a lot of issues.
But Andrew Tate is dead wrong on a lot of these issues.
And the particularly ridiculous posturing about being a yes, you're very tough when you want people to make peace with terrorists who've just murdered their children, very, very tough.
What do you say to that?
So Ben is a warmonger.
Ben has been wrong on basically every single issue you can name.
He was with you with the vaccine and every other war.
Ben is always calling for other people's young men to go and die in some war.
He seems to love it.
I don't know if he has short man syndrome, but he's always behind his desk calling about how important it is that big, strong men like me go and die.
And the reason he tweeted that and said that is because when Hamas and Israel, very early in the conflict, I think it was three days in, were discussing possible peace talks, he tweeted, no, absolutely not.
F them, kill them all.
And I said, I said, Ben, as a man who's done his own fighting, because I've had a life of pain and violence, listen to me.
Peace is always worth a conversation.
What I said is that we should always be prepared to at least discuss peace.
He, because he's a warmonger, said, no, peace is not worth a conversation.
You're this, you're that, da-da-da.
Because he's always sitting behind his desk.
He must have a booster chair and he's always running his mouth trying to invoke violence and call for war.
And I find it kind of hypocritical because a man who's so small he would die if he was slapped on the street, sitting behind a desk and screaming for other people to be annihilated, I think is kind of worse than that.
I actually think it's insane.
I believe if he was sitting here listening to this, he would say that what he's screaming for is for Jewish people in Israel better to defend themselves.
And what Ben does is call for war.
And I agree.
Defending yourself.
That's not all he does.
That's all he does.
And calling for war and defending yourself is very different than genocide.
And Ben, like I said, overall, most of Ben's worldviews and mine probably align.
We don't align on the religious sect, we don't rely on the religious points.
Fine.
But our overall worldviews about how society should function probably align on many of the key issues.
I don't have a beef with Ben, and I don't watch his show, and I have no idea what he talks about a lot of the time.
But what I do know is every time I turn it on, he's calling for someone else's son to go and die in a ditch somewhere for his interests.
And I don't like people who are not advocates for peace.
Blessed are the peacemakers, said Ken Dace, who's far more intelligent than Ben will ever be.
And she is completely right.
He replied that rhetoric, starting an argument with me, when I said we should talk about peace.
I say we should talk about peace.
He calls for the death of civilians, and somehow we're asking why my point of view is seen as abstract.
It's insane.
Why can't we all just sit down and say the fighting must end?
Why can't we do that?
Why can't we sit and say, nobody should be dying?
Let's stop using the most advanced military weaponry on the planet to blow the limbs off children.
Why can't we say that without being deemed some kind of terrorist sympathizer or anti-Semite?
It's insanity.
Trump came along and didn't start a single war.
He's the only one who didn't.
And they're going to come along him and make him a bad guy.
When a new president comes in, it's just endless war and death and killing.
Have you seen a dead body, Piers?
Have you seen people lose him?
It's disgusting.
I know what's happening over there.
Have you seen that?
I don't need to tell you about the parts of my history that I'm not prepared to share, Pierce.
I said it to Ben.
I said people who have done their own fighting and seen their own violence and have seen people bleed out in the street from a stab wound are not going to be so smart and so quick to sit behind a desk and call for the death of innocent people.
It's disgusting what's happening.
I don't want anyone to die on either side.
And when I come along as a peacemaker and say, this is insane, because he's a warmonger, because he has chosen blinkers and sees one side of the argument and refuses to accept the humanity of Palestinians, he says I'm a bad person for calling for peace.
Well, you know why?
Because you'll probably listen to this interview and say, this guy can't even describe Hamas as terrorist.
If Ben Shapiro thinks bad about it.
And if you don't think what happened to the people in Israel on October the 7th is an act of terrorism.
Did I not just say I want all people to stop?
Then you are just as partisan to one side as you believe Ben Shapiro is.
Did I not just say I want all people to start dying?
Stop dying.
Piers, don't interrupt this.
It's two sentences.
I want all people to stop dying.
However, I understand what is going to happen when you create a pressure cooker.
That is my answer, and it's extremely professional.
I don't want anyone to die.
And because I don't want anyone to die, because I'm a peacemaker, because I'm a humanist, I understand you cannot lock people in an open-air prison for an undetermined period of time without provoking terrorism.
So out of interest, what would you have done if you'd been Israel after October the 7th?
That's a really interesting question.
And I think there's people who are more qualified than me to answer.
Given that Hamas last week said we're going to try and do the same thing again and again and again, what would you do to defend the people of Israel?
Good question.
They have the Iron Dome, which is largely effective.
I think that their border security is usually effective.
It's very interesting that it wasn't on.
So you would say they would do nothing other than tighten up security?
I think if I was truthfully, I'll answer the question.
If I was truthfully in charge of Israel, I would have found out how our border was penetrated.
I would have made sure that was impossible to do.
I would have had large conversations and discourse during that period, which would probably take weeks to ensure that my border was impenetrable because we were at no genuine threat of a repeat attack.
And then I would make it clear that there will be some repercussion unless there would be some repercussion unless we can come to peace terms.
I don't think the reason...
Hamas doesn't want peace.
Of course not.
But I'm saying, that's fine.
Of course, of course.
Okay, you're asking what I'd do.
I would have found out, first things first, I'm a man.
So first things first, you fix the problem.
Okay, our border's been penetrated.
How do we make sure that doesn't happen again?
How did it happen?
Internal investigations.
Let's make sure the border is secure.
Now our civilians are safe.
Our civilians are safe, which buys us time.
Let's have a conversation to see if we can actually reason with Hamas.
If we can't, then there might be some military intervention.
But there certainly wouldn't be bombing hospitals, crews missiling, refugee camps.
There wouldn't be any of the things that's going on now.
Absolutely.
You wouldn't try and attack the people with the nation.
No, because this is a rushed and emotional response.
And that's what I would have prevented.
I would have made sure as a man I didn't make a rushed and emotional response.
So you'd be more like Neville Chamberlain trying to do peace with the Nazis and Winston Churchill trying to kill them.
Well, that's an interesting question.
You're an appeaser, not a warrior.
Well, I still think I'm a warrior, but I think that when you're a warrior, you have to be very capable and that's what Neville Chamberlain's view was.
We should do peace with the Nazis.
You have to be very understanding of your power, and you have to use it responsibly.
And just like I said earlier, when I'm trying to be responsible about what I say to the young men of the world, I would understand as Israel, I must be responsible with my massive military might to make sure I don't kill civilians.
And I would sit and try and make a measured response, and I'd be a professional, and I would consider them human beings, and I would secure my border and try and come up with a plan better than, oh, no, I'm mad.
I'm emotional now.
Let's go kill everyone.
I think that's the wrong response.
Correct.
I don't think that's the right thing to do.
We've spent a long time talking.
You're going to find out at some stage today or in the next few days whether you're going to get your possessions back.
That'll either happen or not happen.
Trial and Repercussions 00:06:21
But then there's likely to be a trial.
And that will determine how you spend the next 10 years of your life, almost certainly, which is a sobering thought for anyone.
When you look back on the whole arc of the last few years, you know, you've expressed some regret because of your turning to Islam, your change in your philosophy from a religious perspective.
You've acknowledged that some of the stuff you used to do was immoral.
Do you look at the journey you've gone on here and think that in a way, notwithstanding the matrix and everything else, that maybe you yourself could have done things differently to avoid being in this position?
Absolutely.
I'm a man and I take absolute self-accountability.
You have to, as a man, your superpower is looking in the mirror and understanding everything that happens to you, both good and bad, to a degree is your fault.
It could have all been influenced.
I could have avoided all of this.
I could have avoided the matrix attacks.
Or sorry, I could have avoided jail cell.
You don't want to be using that term.
I could have avoided all the negative press.
I could have chosen to work in Starbucks and just stayed with nobody.
I made choices that put me in this position.
I take responsibility for them.
I said things on the internet in a satirical way on videos that got 110 views when YouTube was brand new that I did not expect to become the most viral videos in the world because I didn't expect to become the most vainless and known person on the planet.
That's all true.
I'm not saying I have no part to play in any of this.
However, I can still say that I'm completely innocent.
I can still say that it is only my fame and notoriety that has inspired the prosecution service to try and even put me in jail in the first place.
I can still say that there's some unfair policing in the world depending on your political views.
I can still say all of those things while accepting absolute responsibility for the situation I am in.
Andrew Tate, thank you very much.
Thank you, sir.
Uncensored next, Andrew Tate's brother and confidant, Tristan, who's facing the same criminal charges in Romania, speaks to me exclusively for the first time.
He said, the times I struck a woman for acting passion, I never left a mark.
I've never heard that before in my life.
Tristan, first of all, your reaction to that extraordinary interview.
I just finished with your brother.
I think that was one of the best interviews ever conducted with Andrew.
I actually, I don't know how hard you're going to go on me, so perhaps I'm making a mistake saying this.
I like how you challenge your guests.
I like how you seem to have a very impartial opinion on people.
You don't judge things one way or another before you go into the interviews.
And I think that made the interview with Andrew very interesting.
I'm very excited to see the public response.
I mean, like I said to him, I'm not here to convict you or otherwise.
I don't know if you're guilty or not of the charges laid against you.
We'll establish that in a trial or otherwise.
I mean, it may not even go to trial.
No, it might not.
Rolling Stone in a profile said this.
Oh, Rolling Stone.
Their relationship dynamic is very odd.
It's like Tristan is held captive by Andrew and believes or follows everything Andrew says or does.
I don't believe or follow a lot of things that Andrew says or does.
You know, I get asked every single day to counter E.J. Dickinson is this woman's name.
I could tell you some horrible stories about the people who she's harassed and bothered this Rolling Stone woman.
The things Andrew says and does, I mean, I get asked.
What don't you like about his views?
Well, the major one, the major one, when people say, oh, Tristan, now that you've converted to Islam, I'm like, I haven't converted to Islam.
Who says I convert to Islam?
No, I'm an Orthodox Christian and I have not converted to Islam.
What do you think of his conversion?
I think that it's a, it's not my place to even comment on it.
Now, some of the greatest religious discussions I've had have been with Andrew since his reversion, since him reading the Quran, most of it of which he covered in prison.
And we sit there and discuss these various ideas, but I believe that individual religious conviction is exactly that.
It's individual.
And I don't believe whether I'm his brother, whether I'm his son, mother, uncle, I have no place to tell him what his religious conviction should be, just as he has no business to tell me mine.
So I'm happy for him because he's become a happier and better person.
Are you rivals?
Yes.
Oh, absolutely.
But in the best and most healthy way.
I can't watch him train in the gym for an hour in the morning and then not train for an hour myself.
I can't sit there drinking and relaxing and partying while he's on his laptop working.
You ever fight?
No, never.
We never argued.
You never physically fight?
Well, we used to physically fight all the time.
We're both professional athletes, so we used to beat each other up in the ring for sparring.
Who would win?
Oh, Andrew would win.
I was good.
I was the European champion at my peak, but Andrew was built for Andrew's.
I mean, see my broken nose?
It leans this way.
First time it was broken was by him, and it got weaker after that, and I had it broken twice subsequently in kickboxing matches.
But yeah, we are rivals in the way that we inspire each other to work better and to be better, but not rivals in any way that his success would upset me or my success would upset him.
When you were in jail together.
Yes.
So a period of that three months, you were actually in the same cellar.
Indeed, for about half of it.
What did you talk about when it's just you and him and you're thinking we may never get out of here?
Lots of things.
Books, religion, the case, obviously, explaining, trying to understand.
And you're in a cockroach-infested tiny cell together.
Yes.
You've gone from being the top G and his brother with your bigattis, your cigars, the lifestyle, the women, and so on, to literally nothing in a very degrading environment that you find yourself in.
And you've got no idea how this plays out or how it ends, or even if you get out.
I mean, that's a pretty, that's a big moment.
Yeah, I guess it is a big moment, but I always knew that we were going to be okay.
You know, even when I was separate from him, I wasn't worried that he was banging his head against the wall or self-harming or doing anything stupid.
Again, he wasn't worried about me.
We obviously weren't worried that the other brother, and I know you can't share in this conviction, I know he's not a criminal.
I know he has no skeletons in his closet and no criminal past.
He knows exactly the same about me.
So we were very relaxed.
I guess in jail I was more relaxed than I am now, because in prison, I assumed that the prosecutor, whose job by the Romanian Constitution, by the way, he's not a district attorney like in the United States where he is told he has to argue that you're guilty and that's it.
The prosecutor's job actually here is to discern the truth of the situation.
So I was sitting in jail relatively relaxed, thinking, well, this is going to end any day now.
I mean, human trafficking, this is r this is stupid.
It's not going to happen.
They're not going to sentence me to jail for this.
It was only when I got out that I learned the true motivations behind this that made me actually more worried than I was in jail.
So in jail I was relatively relaxed.
Trained every day, ate their horrible food, did my push-ups.
It was all right.
Mental break, no electronics.
Misogyny and Fatherhood 00:08:09
People often say, and it's certainly true from people I've interviewed over the years, that you're a product of your environment, particularly of your parents.
Yes.
In a November 2011 Facebook post, your father, Emery, wrote that the eternal problem of the alpha male was protecting his flock of women.
He said, the times I struck a woman, brackets, in passion, I never left a mark, no trace, hyper control, super control of a human animal.
They love me still.
I've never heard that before in my life.
I'm smiling, man, because I can imagine his voice saying it.
You can.
I can imagine his voice saying it.
The only times I've struck a woman in brackets in passion.
Have you ever struck a woman in passion, Piers?
No.
You haven't?
No.
Not a little spank?
Well, once.
Let's keep this above board.
I want to, Piers, but I'm saying, like, I understand how you're trying to phrase this.
No, I don't understand.
My father is dead and can't.
No, no, I'm not trying to phrase it in any way.
I'm just curious what you think he meant by that.
I honestly don't know.
I mean, keep in mind, my father died when I was 27, and that post was written a long time ago.
I've never heard it before.
I've never seen it before.
What kind of father was he in terms of the values he instilled in you and Andrew?
Oh, he was a wonderful man, and he was a very protective man over his family and the people he cared about.
I mean, they got divorced many, many years ago, but even with his dying breath, he would have jumped in to fight 10 men to defend my mother and her honor.
That's the kind of guy he was.
Super protective and super, you know, involved in everyone he loves life, even if he was far away.
You know, the phone calls were constant, the emails were constant.
And he held us very accountable as young men.
Andrew tweeted last year, my dad was a chess genius, CIA operative.
My mother was a dinner lady.
They had nothing in common.
Dad said she fed you boys healthy meals every day, cleaned the house, and was largely quiet.
I loved her very much.
That's literally all men want.
Is that, are you asking if that's an accurate description of my parents' relationship?
Yeah.
Perhaps, yeah.
But my mother was a wonderful mother.
See, I don't think...
But they split up.
Of course they did.
So when he says that's literally all men want.
They split up way before I was old enough to understand marriage or sexual or male or female dynamics, by the way.
So I can't even comment on their marriage.
What I can comment on is how they were as parents.
And what I will say is, I don't look back on my childhood, raised in a council estate on state benefits, you know, I was free school lunches.
I don't look back on that and think, oh, my mother was a terrible mother because we didn't have any money.
Because I don't think it was my mother's job to, I guess, provide as much as my father was doing his best in the United States.
But I will look back and say my mother was an absolutely wonderful mother.
I had three square meals a day.
She knew how to manage her finances, didn't smoke, didn't go out with her friends, made sure my clothes were always washed, knew how to mend things.
She was the, she is.
How does she feel about the fact both her boys are in this serious legal jeopardy?
Well, you have to understand she's known us our entire lives and you haven't.
You know, when I was 15, 16, 18, all my friends were selling drugs and breaking into cars.
I was down at the kickboxing gym every single day.
I would get into the kickboxing ring for 50 pounds after eight weeks training.
Just because I found harmony in the discipline that sport gave me, I think kickboxing is massively, largely responsible for keeping me from ever doing anything illegal.
Never tried a drug in my life.
Never broken a law in my life.
Never broken any law.
I was speeding.
I mean, we're talking, I'm talking about serious crimes.
And my mother's known that even at my most desperate and my most poor, I would come home to her and sleep on her couch for six months as opposed to do anything illegal and try to find an honest, good way of, legal way at least, of making money.
So is she worried about you, the situation you're in?
Well, she's worried about the situation, but she has no doubt in her mind that I haven't done any heinous things against women, especially for money, because it doesn't make sense that after going through what I've gone through and avoiding any legal problems, suddenly I'm worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
And I decide that's the time to start trafficking.
You guys have preached a message of masculinity, and I'm all in favor of masculinity.
Great.
Many other people have categorized it as toxic masculinity because of the misogyny and so on.
Do you feel that maybe you have collectively gone too far in the misogyny?
And that that has been, again, one of the reasons you find yourself and the problems you're in.
Well, again, when I say, first of all, the kind of alpha male rhetoric.
What have I said that's misogynistic to you?
No, I'm just asking generally whether you feel that's part of the problem.
I don't think that's part of the problem.
I don't think it is a problem at all.
I think that when somebody has been speaking on the internet for a decade, you have to understand that, first of all, lots and lots of content is produced and it's very easy to cherry-pick and to take things out of conversation.
And number two, the man speaking on the internet 10 years ago is not the man sitting in being interviewed by you today.
You know, who I was when I was 25, I fancied myself a bit of a dating coach, used to give people advice on how to meet women and how to pick.
That's not how I live.
Now I'm 35.
I'm not 25.
You at 25, I'm sure, were very vastly different than you are today.
So, you know, I don't think there's a problem with anything I've said because I've never advocated for anything illegal.
I've never advocated for any crime.
I do not advocate for drugs.
I do not advocate for violence.
I do not advocate for any of these things.
So if Andrew said that women can't drive as well as men once, like it's very easy to jump on that and say this man is the world's biggest misogynist because he said X. Look, I just think it's, for me, when I look at all the rhetoric, the stuff that I find most problematic, to use the phrase of the buzz phrase of our era.
Absolutely.
It's simply where I feel like if it strays into that misogyny, I think you let yourselves down.
You have a good message in many ways.
You know, a lot of the stuff, notwithstanding the serious charges you're facing, and we'll have to see how that all plays out.
And maybe you both are very different people to the ones you're claiming to be.
We'll find out, right?
But in terms of your general rhetoric, I find that constant running underpinning theme of misogyny and about where a woman's place should be, that is the problem in terms of the influence on young men.
They shouldn't all be walking around thinking that a woman's place is only in the home serving their men.
Well, no.
And they're somehow their only thought process each day, women, should be, how do I please my man?
Not can I get a fulfilling job or any of those things.
You stay at home, self-improvement, make yourself look good, obey his instructions, all that kind of stuff.
So Andrew talking about the way that he wants his relationship to work.
He's entitled to want it.
He's advocating and forcing the whole world to see it his way.
Yeah, but that's the delusion.
Well, no, because you can say he only wants that for himself.
Right?
By the way, he's allowed any relationship he wants.
But when do you pretend that when he says those things, they're not amplified to literally tens of millions of people.
Right, but here's why young men.
But here's why you're wrong.
Then you know that's not true.
Well, here's why you're wrong, because you assume that Andrew Tate, for some reason in this conversation, is the only influencer in the world and the only people listen to.
Because he's not at all.
No, to the internet.
But I've got to tell you, he's one of the most influenced.
No, he absolutely is.
And that's great.
And that's the part of his influence that I think is a potentially malignant.
Right, and it's wonderful and good.
And you don't have to like it.
But let me tell you, every force has an equal and opposite force somewhere else.
So on X, Elon has now legalized free speech on that platform.
So there are differing opinions on every single aspect of life, including how you want to date women, what kind of music you should listen to, what kind of cars are good, what kind of, whatever it is.
So for every Andrew Tate out there, there's some feminist OnlyFans model who lives in Florida, who makes rap music, who's saying that men are nothing and men are not.
So the people who are listening to Andrew Tate aren't listening to Andrew Tate.
They're listening to the internet as a whole.
And I believe Andrew's message is, one, overwhelmingly positive, absolutely overwhelmingly positive.
And I believe he's a very important mark on that spectrum of opinions that exist out there because when you delete Andrew Tate, the mean average of people will drift down this toilet of degeneracy and become less like Andrew Tate.
He's a professional athlete with a completely clean criminal record, by the way, who's massively financially successful, who's kind, who's generous.
He runs his own charity.
He's the best brother.
He's the best father.
He's the best uncle.
He's an absolutely wonderful man.
Andrew Tate's Positive Message 00:00:40
And I would love to see more men become like him.
So I like his opinions and I like the fact that he's out there.
Tristan Tate.
Thank you.
It's been a pleasure.
It wasn't until I got to Ukraine where I really felt like, now I understand this thing.
You dedicate the film to Ukrainian fighter pilot and he very sadly died three months ago in a training exercise.
Yeah.
The Israel-Hamas war.
Israel also has a prime minister who is a terror.
Will Smith Chris Rock punch up on stage.
A very low moment.
We're in a world where cancel culture is a very real thing.
I have opinions.
Big surprise.
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