Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20230810_piers-morgan-uncensored-trumps-popularity-trans-su
Aired: 2023-08-10
Duration: 46:52


=== Trump's Serious New Mandate (15:49) ===

[00:00:00]  I am Rosanna Lockwood here on Uncensored Tonight.
[00:00:03]  Donald Trump's Twitter account used to be the stuff of Comedy Gold, but now he's under criminal investigation and it's all turned very serious indeed.
[00:00:12]  Could what's lurking in the former president's private DMs prevent him standing for office again?
[00:00:19]  Plus, Sarin Adalka was a teenager when she made the decision to undergo gender reassignment surgery.
[00:00:25]  Now she is suing her former doctors, claiming they coerced her into a double mastectomy.
[00:00:30]  I'll be talking to her live.
[00:00:32]  And nothing on the telly over the summer?
[00:00:34]  Apart from here on Talk TV, of course, then why not try the latest viewing sensation, Skip TV?
[00:00:40]  We have the bald builders behind it all to explain it.
[00:00:47]  Live from the news building in London, this is Piers Morgan, uncensored with Rosanna Lockwood.
[00:00:55]  Well, this time a week ago, I was sat in this very seat, four peers, hosting a two-hour special as we watched Donald Trump get indicted for the third time.
[00:01:04]  He's amassed so many criminal charges now, facing so many trials, and yet he remains intensely popular.
[00:01:12]  Latest polls putting him actually way out in front as the Republican nominee for the next run at the White House.
[00:01:18]  Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, the only other contender really breaking into those double digits, but still actually trailing far behind Trump.
[00:01:25]  Now, today I've been mulling this with the uncensored team, including some of our American colleagues as well.
[00:01:30]  Why is Trump so popular, not only among US voters, but internationally too?
[00:01:36]  Now, some argue it's his mastery of manipulation and deceit.
[00:01:40]  Others say it's his no-nonsense policies that speak to real people.
[00:01:44]  But there is one common thread that unites even the left and the right.
[00:01:48]  Trump is funny.
[00:01:56]  Christy is eating right now.
[00:01:58]  He can't be barred.
[00:02:00]  Don't call him a fat pig.
[00:02:03]  They would love to see a guy like Sleepy Joe Biden who has no clue what the hell he's doing.
[00:02:14]  There's my hair, I don't know about you, but it has to be perfect.
[00:02:17]  Perfect.
[00:02:23]  I wonder who did that to our mind.
[00:02:27]  I don't believe it was Joe.
[00:02:30]  You know who it was?
[00:02:31]  Crooked Hillary.
[00:02:45]  Well, whether you are laughing with him as he slams crooked Hillary or laughing at him as he dad dances out of an escalade, Trump is not afraid to be a laughing stock.
[00:02:56]  And that is because he knows the true currency of humour, attention.
[00:03:01]  Attention means more airtime, means more influencing.
[00:03:04]  It means more fans, followers and popularity.
[00:03:07]  That doesn't mean he's a good politician, but it probably means he is a successful one.
[00:03:12]  Now, one place he, of course, used to do all this was Twitter before he was banned.
[00:03:16]  No politician or leader has ever used social media like Trump did now or does on his truth social platform now.
[00:03:22]  Now we know that the lawyer investigating Trump in this latest indictment actually obtained a search warrant for Trump's Twitter account.
[00:03:29]  Now, presumably, there are probably a lot less gags in the DMs.
[00:03:33]  We'll be finding out more about that shortly.
[00:03:34]  But ask more journalists and they will say despite the turbulence of Trump's presidency and the real world impacts of his words and actions, it was an interesting time when he was in power.
[00:03:45]  And the same can seldom be said for other candidates.
[00:03:47]  I mean, have you seen Biden's attempt to have a sense of humor?
[00:03:51]  Grand Canyon, one of the Earth, nine wonders, wonders of the world.
[00:03:56]  Happy birthday to you.
[00:04:00]  Happy birthday to you.
[00:04:04]  Happy birthday, dear Dallas.
[00:04:07]  Well, Mr. President, just motor you.
[00:04:11]  Now, of course, I'm not saying, you know, I back Trump over Biden.
[00:04:14]  You know me by now and the types of politics I'm into.
[00:04:17]  But we're talking here about humor and why it works for one side or another.
[00:04:21]  And it's a particular weak spot for Democrats and indeed liberals and left-wingers the world over.
[00:04:27]  Why do left-leaning candidates so often lose against conservatives in debates?
[00:04:32]  You could argue it's because they're so focused on the importance of their arguments that they often lose the ability to relate to people, to be human.
[00:04:38]  And like it or not, it's an honest reality.
[00:04:40]  People vote for candidates that they like.
[00:04:43]  And having a sense of humor is a shortcut to popularity.
[00:04:46]  Unfortunately, it's also really hard to fake.
[00:04:49]  So short of another Obama, if the Democrats really want to stop a court jester getting back into the White House, they probably better find one of their own.
[00:04:58]  Well, to discuss this more, I'm joined here in the studio by stand-up comedian and podcaster Eric McElroy and news review editor at the Sunday Times, Josh Glancy.
[00:05:07]  Thanks to both of you.
[00:05:08]  We are also joined in the US by Donald Trump's former lawyer, Alan Dershowitz.
[00:05:13]  Also joining us down the line, billionaire businessman and investor Kevin O'Leary.
[00:05:17]  All four of you.
[00:05:18]  Thank you.
[00:05:19]  We've got a lot to get through.
[00:05:20]  I will start with the comedian that joins us here on the panel in the studio.
[00:05:24]  You were watching that, Eric.
[00:05:28]  Are we wildly out of touch here, or is Trump a funny person?
[00:05:31]  No, when you watch him do his speech, when he's doing a joke or even when he's trying out ideas, he plays the room like he's a stand-up comedian.
[00:05:38]  Like when we do comedy, we can't just make things funny out of thin air.
[00:05:42]  We have to try it in front of people.
[00:05:43]  You feel it and you change it and you adjust it.
[00:05:45]  And you can see the way he plays with the crowd, plays to the things that they like him to say, and then, you know, and then builds on that.
[00:05:51]  Even in his political ideas, he tries them out like we would try out a joke in a way.
[00:05:55]  I saw somebody mention the fact that he almost sometimes can leave off the final word of a sentence and he'll mime it instead.
[00:06:00]  And that leaves him open to lack of prosecution on one thing.
[00:06:03]  But it's also just a sort of tactics.
[00:06:05]  Do you think he's really thinking about his angles like a comedian does?
[00:06:08]  I mean, he definitely has a natural charisma.
[00:06:11]  I mean, he's not somebody that I've ever supported, but I think you're right about the likability thing.
[00:06:14]  And if you go back since we've had televised debates in America, the likable candidate, whether you like their politics or not, has always won.
[00:06:22]  And Trump was more likable than Hillary.
[00:06:24]  And I say that for somebody who fully endorsed Hillary in all of her policies and wanted her to win, but she was not that charming person that you wanted to hang out with and listen to for a while.
[00:06:32]  So do you think my point about Democrats not really having a sense of humor is unfair?
[00:06:37]  Well, no, I mean, Obama is a great example.
[00:06:38]  If you see the speeches that he made for the Press Association dinners, the Washington Press Code, those were very, very funny.
[00:06:46]  And he has great comic timing.
[00:06:48]  But you're right.
[00:06:48]  Biden feels more like he would tell you dad jokes.
[00:06:50]  Trump's going to pull you in and tell you the dirty little naughty joke.
[00:06:53]  Let's go over to Kevin O'Leary and ask him a bit more about that.
[00:06:56]  The naughty, dirty little jokes that Trump asks.
[00:06:59]  Are they part of his brand, Kevin?
[00:07:02]  I think people have got to know him quite well the straightforwardness, the transparency, sometimes outrageous statements.
[00:07:10]  Other people have got canceled for saying the same things.
[00:07:14]  Somehow, he's the Teflon man.
[00:07:17]  But what's remarkable over the last six weeks, as these indictments started pouring on, we're past 70 indictments, seven zero indictments.
[00:07:26]  Many of them, should he be found guilty, would get him 20 years in a federal prison.
[00:07:32]  He's not talking about that.
[00:07:35]  They keep coming.
[00:07:35]  We have another set of maybe as many as 100 more coming out of Atlanta for attempting to change the vote in Georgia.
[00:07:44]  And now the entire population seems to be getting numb to this piling on of indictments.
[00:07:50]  In fact, both sides are under scrutiny now.
[00:07:53]  This seems to be a new kind of political warfare where each side tries to indict the other person or their family in the case of Biden's son, Hunter Biden.
[00:08:02]  It looks like by the time we get debates between the presidential candidates, they'll both be wearing ankle bracelets.
[00:08:08]  And that's new in America, but people don't seem to care.
[00:08:11]  Trump is on a different mandate now.
[00:08:14]  He's cracking jokes, as you've just detailed.
[00:08:16]  He's not talking about indictments or prison time.
[00:08:19]  He's not attacking Biden personally.
[00:08:22]  He's attacking his policies.
[00:08:24]  We are five months early.
[00:08:25]  This usually doesn't start till the November before the election.
[00:08:29]  Here we are in August in America, and we are getting very detailed policies out of Trump, attacking foreign policy on Biden, attacking economic domestic policy, energy policy, very specific claims.
[00:08:44]  And that's unique.
[00:08:45]  And it's actually getting quite a bit of traction.
[00:08:47]  And why we're doing, and we're seeing this, they both have 43%.
[00:08:51]  So in other words, you can't elect either of these people without the people who haven't decided, the undecided voters.
[00:08:58]  And Trump is going after them now with policy.
[00:09:02]  Fascinating.
[00:09:03]  Let's cross over to Alan Dershowitz, who, of course, has performed as a lawyer for Trump before.
[00:09:09]  He's a close friend of the show.
[00:09:10]  He was on with us for the indictment last week as well.
[00:09:13]  Alan, can you talk us and our audience through some of the latest things that are happening in this myriad of legal cases against Trump?
[00:09:20]  We've had new information this evening just about the Mar-a-Lago files, which of course I think was a second indictment, if I'm not losing count.
[00:09:28]  Yeah, well, first of all, Trump is an invention of the media, particularly the media who opposed him.
[00:09:34]  CNN gave him the presidency in 2016, and he manages to turn attacks on him into humor.
[00:09:43]  Sometimes it's intended, sometimes it's not.
[00:09:45]  When I finished arguing for him on behalf of the Senate, and I think I did a good job, and he called me the next day.
[00:09:52]  I expected him to say thank you.
[00:09:54]  He said, Alan, I hope you will thank me for making you famous.
[00:09:58]  Now, I don't think he even thought that was funny, but to me, it was funny.
[00:10:04]  I occasionally see him say things that are dead serious, but they seem funny.
[00:10:10]  People look at it as being funny.
[00:10:13]  And I think the fact that he's being attacked so much, and in my case, in my opinion, often unfairly, of the three indictments so far against him, two of them are absolutely unfair.
[00:10:24]  The only possibly fair one is the one in Florida where he was waving classified material in front of unauthorized people.
[00:10:32]  But I think Americans don't like bullies, even if there are bullies going after bullies.
[00:10:37]  I think that it's turned a lot of people in Trump's direction who don't like him, but they want to object to how he's being persecuted by the other side and by prosecutors and by some in the media.
[00:10:51]  So he's managed to figure out a way by using humor of turning the attacks on him against his enemies and in his favor.
[00:11:01]  It's a rare talent.
[00:11:02]  I've never seen it before in any politician.
[00:11:05]  Neither Obama nor Clinton, who had a good sense of humor, were able to do that.
[00:11:10]  He has this remarkable ability to turn attacks into humorous defenses and attacks against his attackers.
[00:11:18]  His nicknames, for example, they're pretty dumb nicknames.
[00:11:21]  They're lame.
[00:11:22]  But he managed to get laughs from calling people these names.
[00:11:26]  I wouldn't laugh at that.
[00:11:27]  He gets extraordinary traction with them.
[00:11:29]  Crooked Hillary, Rhonda Sanctimonious, Meatball Ron.
[00:11:32]  He needs to only utter it once and it gets into the public imagination.
[00:11:36]  Alan, just while we've got you, I just want to ask you about this latest detail on Trump's Twitter DMs, basically, that the new, the special counsel for the new indictment got a warrant to get access to Trump's Twitter account.
[00:11:50]  It was blocked at first, et cetera.
[00:11:52]  Where are we in that?
[00:11:53]  How serious could that be?
[00:11:55]  I don't think it would be very serious.
[00:11:56]  First, he's going to attack the warrant.
[00:11:59]  But second of all, I can't imagine what on his Twitter account, which he hasn't made public.
[00:12:04]  Donald Trump doesn't understand privacy or confidentiality.
[00:12:09]  Everything he thinks about, he says publicly.
[00:12:12]  He is not a private person.
[00:12:14]  So I doubt that his Twitter account will have any smoking guns or anything that he hasn't already said in public.
[00:12:20]  Who knows?
[00:12:21]  But that's my guess.
[00:12:22]  Yeah, it does seem to be all out there, doesn't it?
[00:12:24]  Let's come to the studio again now and speak to Josh who joins us.
[00:12:28]  Josh, you study the news as part of your job, basically.
[00:12:32]  And when you think about Trump and the way he's seen internationally as well, especially from here in the UK, do you think he's going to win again with that same routine that we've just been analyzing?
[00:12:42]  Well, I mean, I covered the 2020 election on the ground, and it was very notable for me then that a fair proportion of Americans who maybe didn't hate Trump's policies were just exhausted with the guy.
[00:12:53]  I mean, four years of Trump in America was the most dizzying, draining, preposterous experience I've ever had, and many shared that view.
[00:13:01]  And I think that's really why he lost, because a fair chunk of Americans who weren't in one camp or the other just thought, you know what, enough.
[00:13:09]  This Biden guy, he seems boring, sleepy, fine, let's do that for a bit.
[00:13:13]  So the question is, this time around, is that sort of exhausted middle still there?
[00:13:19]  I suspect it probably is.
[00:13:22]  But Trump will out-campaign Biden if it comes between the two of them.
[00:13:26]  He's got more energy than Biden.
[00:13:27]  He's clearly funnier than Biden.
[00:13:28]  We know that.
[00:13:30]  So, and Biden does have this problem with his age and with his mental acuity.
[00:13:34]  So I would say Biden probably shades it, but it really is a coin toss, as any country as polarized as America is going to be in a two-horse race.
[00:13:42]  And do you think comparisons with Trump and his way of using humor as a tactic and Boris Johnson are well-founded?
[00:13:49]  Well, they're almost archetypes of their different countries, aren't they?
[00:13:52]  So Boris Johnson is the witty, erudite Etonian who's good at sort of quoting the classics at inappropriate moments.
[00:14:01]  And Trump is the brash, wise guy, New Yorker who says cruel, funny little put-downs and knows how to get under people's skin.
[00:14:09]  So in some ways, they had a lot in common.
[00:14:11]  In some ways, they couldn't be more different.
[00:14:13]  Kevin, listening into that, I want to ask you what you make of Josh's assessment there of us Brits as well, the way we perceive Trump.
[00:14:21]  Maybe it's similar to how you guys see Boris Johnson.
[00:14:25]  I always thought Boris was very entertaining.
[00:14:30]  And I've come to the conclusion, this is, you know, from Napoleonic times.
[00:14:36]  Great leaders are amazing storytellers, right?
[00:14:41]  From Attila the Hun, right through to Napoleon, Trump, Boris Johnson, they tell stories.
[00:14:48]  People are captivated in listening to them.
[00:14:50]  And as a result, they feel their brand when they're at the polling booth.
[00:14:55]  And I think that's exactly how Boris Johnson did it.
[00:14:57]  I was surprised when he was trying to make his comeback that he didn't get more traction because I never felt his removal.
[00:15:06]  And of course, I understand the British parliamentary system because I'm an Irish and a Canadian citizen.
[00:15:11]  So I watch these things happen.
[00:15:13]  When your own caucus decides you can't win a majority mandate, they take you behind the barn and shoot you.
[00:15:19]  And that's what happened to him.
[00:15:21]  But in a way, these remarkable politicians in modern times, the Trump story and Boris and even Maggie Thatcher was a hell of a storyteller.
[00:15:33]  I was mesmerized growing up listening to her and studying politics and history.
[00:15:38]  Great storytellers are successful politicians.
[00:15:43]  Doesn't speak to their policies.
[00:15:45]  That's different.
[00:15:46]  The ability to get elected is the first thing you have to do.

=== Self-ID and Mental Health Debates (13:30) ===

[00:15:50]  Then you have to execute.
[00:15:51]  Great storytellers, also great businessman, Kevin.
[00:15:55]  Eric, you were listening into that in the studio, and I want to ask you whether you think there's any sort of link then between being a great storyteller and the types of sort of career burnout we've seen, if we can call it that.
[00:16:06]  And that's kind of Boris Johnson as a leader, Trump as a leader, you know, finding themselves facing investigations and criminal charges.
[00:16:13]  Yeah, well, I think Trump's whole shtick, and that's what his fans and hardcore supporters really like.
[00:16:18]  They like the fact that he punches down, you know, picks on people.
[00:16:22]  They enjoy that kind of comedy.
[00:16:23]  It's a comedy of cruelty because it's not normally the rule in comedy is you punch up against power.
[00:16:27]  Well, Trump has been the most powerful man in the world.
[00:16:29]  And so he picks on people and they seem to enjoy that.
[00:16:32]  And it feels like some of it, I don't know how much that expands the base that likes him because you're right, they're probably exhausted from it after all these years of it.
[00:16:39]  And the people who seem to be coming back to him want that last sort of hurrah of the band that maybe is a little bit too tired and maybe should have packed it up a few years ago.
[00:16:47]  Goodness, we'll have to wait and see if the trumpet is still playing.
[00:16:49]  Look, all four of you, thank you very much for an interesting discussion.
[00:16:52]  Here on Uncensored next tonight, we're going to be speaking to the woman suing her doctors for allegedly encouraging her to become a man.
[00:16:59]  Should there be more rigorous medical assessments for those wanting gender reassignment surgery?
[00:17:04]  We'll be asking that next.
[00:17:21]  Welcome back to Uncensored.
[00:17:23]  Now, how long should someone have to wait before receiving gender reassignment treatment?
[00:17:28]  Last year, lawyers argued that NHS England had failed to meet a duty to ensure that 92% of patients referred for non-urgent care start treatment within 18 weeks.
[00:17:38]  The High Court actually rejected that.
[00:17:40]  In America, meanwhile, a number of lawsuits are being brought by people who say they were rushed too quickly into treatment by the medical establishment.
[00:17:49]  Now, one of them is Saren Adalka, a woman from Texas who is suing doctors who she says acted like ideologues, pushing her into gender reassignment surgery at 18 rather than treating her for anxiety and depression.
[00:18:03]  Now, Sarin claims surgeons opted for a risky procedure and botched her double mastectomy.
[00:18:08]  She then detransitioned just six months later.
[00:18:11]  Soren joins us now, along with her lawyer, Ron Miller.
[00:18:15]  The two of you really want to thank you for sharing your time with us.
[00:18:19]  I understand this case is very much open, which is why your lawyer joins us.
[00:18:23]  Ron, thank you very much for making the time as well.
[00:18:26]  Soren, thanks for letting us share your story, but it's best if it comes from you.
[00:18:29]  Just give the audience a sense of what happened to you.
[00:18:34]  So, yeah, I mean, I first started really exploring my identity as a teenager, which is totally normal for teenagers to do.
[00:18:43]  It's in fact an extremely normal part of our adolescent development.
[00:18:48]  But when I was hospitalized for a psychiatric episode at age 15, I was coerced into admitting that I was trans or telling, you know, the practitioner that I was trans by the psychiatrist seeing me.
[00:19:06]  And from there, I was pretty quickly medicalized, started attending a support group where I was affirmed and found that sense of community that I think a lot of adolescents crave and desire.
[00:19:17]  And at age 17, I started testosterone.
[00:19:21]  At age 19, I had my healthy breast amputated in a double mastectomy.
[00:19:25]  And six months later, before I even turned 20 years old, I ideologically detransitioned and along with that, stopped the use of hormones and also correcting anybody on how they perceived me.
[00:19:37]  Wow, what a journey you have been on, Soren.
[00:19:40]  And very brave of you to now be sharing your story of the world.
[00:19:43]  You're also bringing a court case, I understand, in Texas against the medical professionals who advised you, who carried out these procedures.
[00:19:52]  And, you know, Ron, feel free to pick up at this point if there's something you think you should add legally here.
[00:19:59]  But why is it that you're bringing this case to court?
[00:20:05]  Soren, go ahead.
[00:20:06]  Yeah, I think Soren.
[00:20:07]  Yeah, I think Soren's perfectly capable of answering this one.
[00:20:10]  She's very familiar with their lawsuit.
[00:20:14]  Soren, what has led you to bring this case because we see this happening to people besides just me, but because what happened to me was preventable.
[00:20:28]  I mean, these practitioners overlooked so many red flags in my mental health and why I was, you know, pursuing this treatment, why this treatment was being recommended to me even in providing it to me.
[00:20:44]  And, you know, I think that the legal route, because the medical community has failed to regulate itself, it's going to be the way that we bring about this change and this sort of caution when dealing with irreversible medical interventions.
[00:20:58]  So this isn't a class action lawsuit.
[00:21:01]  This isn't multiple parts.
[00:21:02]  This is your lawsuit, but you're hoping, well, not hoping, but by doing so, you think that more people might be encouraged to do the same.
[00:21:08]  Have you met people in your position?
[00:21:12]  Yeah, I mean, I've met lots of people who at least underwent similar interventions to me, who dealt with practitioners who, you know, threatened them and their families, who, I mean, just had this feeling of wrong that I think is brought about more by sort of cultural limitations on what men and women can do, on what they can wear, on what activities are appropriate for them to partake in.
[00:21:38]  And, you know, I don't think we should be addressing something societal with this pursuit of physical change.
[00:21:46]  You know, we've that that's not been true for any other case in history.
[00:21:51]  And I don't think it's true now.
[00:21:53]  And what was it about the way that the medical practitioners approached your case that made you think that they were approaching it ideologically rather than medically?
[00:22:03]  Well, there wasn't any question of why I thought the way I thought.
[00:22:08]  All of them seemed very happy to help me along in my struggle.
[00:22:14]  I mean, I had a practitioner whose partner was, you know, transgender.
[00:22:19]  I had another practitioner whose child was transgender.
[00:22:22]  And it seemed like a lot of them had personal stakes in my case and weren't really treating my case objectively, as I would expect from somebody who is supposed to be helping me rather than enabling me.
[00:22:35]  Okay, and I will bring Ron in on this one and just talk a little bit about preparing for this case.
[00:22:40]  Have you dealt with any similar ones like this, Ron?
[00:22:44]  And what will your sort of case be based around?
[00:22:48]  What is the kind of testimony or evidence that you're bringing?
[00:22:53]  Yeah, we have unfortunately dealt with several other cases that are similar to Sorens, not exactly the same, but have similar fact patterns, so to speak, where a medical provider is essentially fast-tracking the patient down this course of gender-affirming treatments that include cross-sex hormones and surgeries to their bodies.
[00:23:17]  You know, for females, it usually starts with a double mastectomy.
[00:23:21]  For males, you've got anectomies and other surgeries that will permanently disfigure their bodies.
[00:23:28]  And so we've seen these cases and we are bringing other cases against these medical practitioners, urging a sense of caution and care, just follow the normal standard of care.
[00:23:40]  These are medical malpractice cases.
[00:23:43]  There's a standard of care that, you know, to do no harm, to make sure that you're using the least invasive medical intervention possible.
[00:23:52]  And these practitioners seem to jump to almost the most medically invasive possibility right off the bat without even ruling out the other ones.
[00:24:01]  And so each of these cases share similar fact patterns and will be brought under these kind of causes across the country.
[00:24:09]  Okay, really interesting.
[00:24:10]  Look, Sarin, before we let you go, how do you feel about the court case?
[00:24:14]  You've been brave enough to share your account with us here on television.
[00:24:18]  Do you feel ready to talk about it in court?
[00:24:22]  I do.
[00:24:23]  I mean, I feel like this is bigger than me.
[00:24:25]  And that's a lot of what is motivating me knowing that while I was so into myself for so long, I'm so concerned with my pain and, you know, my life and what direction that was going to take.
[00:24:37]  I feel like I know now that I'm part of this collective of humanity.
[00:24:42]  And while I care for myself as part of that, I know that, you know, when I stand before that court, I'm going to be doing something that's going to have lasting effects for years, for decades, for centuries, perhaps millennia to come, and ensuring that our health, our mental health especially, is taken seriously.
[00:25:00]  Sarin Aldico and Ron as well, your lawyer.
[00:25:03]  Thank you very much for sharing your story with us this evening.
[00:25:05]  We appreciate it.
[00:25:07]  Now, bringing this story back over here to the United Kingdom, of course, different systems.
[00:25:11]  They've got this private healthcare system over there in the US.
[00:25:14]  That's the medical establishment that's being taken to court in that case here in the United Kingdom.
[00:25:18]  It's mostly NHS, isn't it?
[00:25:21]  And in terms of points of view in this debate, often brought up on this show a lot, some think trans people have to wait too long for treatment here in the UK, especially here with the NHS.
[00:25:33]  And Frida Wallace is a trans rights campaigner, host of Gender Nebulous Podcasts, joins me now to discuss this.
[00:25:39]  Frida, not our first rodeo.
[00:25:41]  You and I met a few months ago here, right?
[00:25:43]  Right on Pierson Time.
[00:25:45]  Nice to speak to you again.
[00:25:45]  Hopefully it won't be so chaotic this time.
[00:25:48]  It was fiery, wasn't it, Frida?
[00:25:50]  It was a little bit.
[00:25:50]  And I do apologise if I was a little bit too aggressive.
[00:25:54]  But I know, I speak well because I care about what I say, you know.
[00:25:59]  And it was interesting to listen to that story there because there was a mention of something being ideologically driven.
[00:26:05]  Now, trans people are not ideologically driven.
[00:26:09]  Trans just happens to be something we are.
[00:26:11]  Now, we have to fit into society with that.
[00:26:14]  And sadly, because of the history of the medicalization of our experience, part of that is going through psychological processes, going through checks and balances with doctors, gatekeeping of medications we might need.
[00:26:28]  It's very, very difficult to be trans.
[00:26:30]  If you were a young person now and you were coming out as trans, you could expect to wait as long as seven years for a first appointment.
[00:26:37]  And that's just, and it's true of any NHS service at the moment.
[00:26:40]  Sadly, the NHS is so underfunded.
[00:26:42]  I don't know really why we're talking about this as a trans issue because it's a mental health issue as well.
[00:26:47]  Because unfortunately, like I said before, the way the trans experience has been codified, it's become a mental health.
[00:26:53]  It comes under mental health, really.
[00:26:54]  But I disagree with that.
[00:26:56]  And unfortunately, not to take away anything from that person's experience, because I don't know them, but we hear more about the transitioners than we hear about the trans medical experience because that is the thing that is politically and ideologically driven.
[00:27:13]  We have to talk about trans people as human beings.
[00:27:15]  And another thing that sticks out to me about this is this idea of medicalization.
[00:27:21]  We're often talked about, oh, you can't just change into a woman if you have surgeries.
[00:27:24]  The surgery thing isn't really the important thing for me.
[00:27:27]  It's the social thing.
[00:27:28]  It's being accepted socially, accepted to be accepted in law.
[00:27:32]  You know, if I wanted to get married, say if I wanted to, if I was involved in some complex legal situation.
[00:27:37]  And the thing that would change that, the thing that would empower and make young people happy would be self-id.
[00:27:43]  That is the thing that would change all that.
[00:27:45]  And it would be so easy to, it's already gone through in Scotland.
[00:27:48]  It would have been, it would have, it would have been law now in Scotland, but Westminster blocked it.
[00:27:53]  And it was blocked for ideological reasons.
[00:27:55]  It wasn't blocked for any medical reason.
[00:27:57]  It wasn't blocked for any safeguarding reasons.
[00:27:59]  It's been proved time and time again that self-id only is it's like the high tide that lifts all boats.
[00:28:05]  That's what self-id is.
[00:28:07]  And I know so self-id is that important because obviously it is the bone of biggest contention, I think, when it comes to the gender identity debate here in the United Kingdom.
[00:28:17]  You know, the common refrain you hear is we're saying, I will give you the pronouns you want socially in public, but self-id, i.e. signing a legal declaration to change your sex legally and officially, there is a lot of opposition to that.
[00:28:30]  But you're saying it means a lot to you.
[00:28:32]  Yeah, the opposition is ideological and political.
[00:28:35]  And they've had to, I mean, if you think, if you look at the conversation about it, they have to think the people that are against that have to find the worst case scenarios in the world.
[00:28:43]  They will scour the world for the one time somebody, say somebody was a sexual predator and happened to be trans.
[00:28:52]  And they will, that story will make it to the Daily Mail.
[00:28:55]  And we know that self-ID would not change.
[00:28:58]  It would not affect any of that.
[00:29:01]  We know that because it's already self-id exists in like, I think it's 20 countries now.
[00:29:06]  And there's no reports of it being a problem.
[00:29:09]  And the actual UN, the UN had to intervene actually in the Scottish debate because Victor Bolas from the UN, he had to intervene and say this is inhumane.
[00:29:18]  This goes against human rights.

=== Unregulated Social Media Culture (07:16) ===

[00:29:20]  And that's why Baroness Faulkner is currently being investigated for a corruption of the EHRC.
[00:29:26]  And that's where we are.
[00:29:26]  That's where trans people are at the moment, Rosanna.
[00:29:29]  And the thing that would change it and make everybody happier, we wouldn't need to feel validated by a medical experience if we felt that the government and people who make laws are actually batting for us.
[00:29:42]  Can I just add, I mean, I've written to many politicians and there are some good people out there.
[00:29:48]  The Tory Party spoke to Caroline Noakes and she and it was really sad today to see what was happening to Mary Black, who's a trans ally.
[00:29:57]  And when anybody stands up for us, when any person puts their head above the parapet, the little Twitter trolls come out and they just try and cut them down.
[00:30:06]  And it's really sad.
[00:30:07]  Frida, unfortunately, we've run out of time, but we did bring you on so we could hear from your point of view.
[00:30:12]  I think that pink chair has done something to you.
[00:30:14]  You're a pussycat now.
[00:30:17]  It was great to speak to you.
[00:30:19]  Thanks so much.
[00:30:20]  Look, I'm censored next tonight.
[00:30:22]  The latest on the mysterious mushroom deaths investigation.
[00:30:25]  We bought you that last night.
[00:30:27]  We're headed back down under next.
[00:30:45]  Welcome back to Uncensored, where I'm joined by the Thursday night pack in the studio, lawyer and talk TV contributor Paula Rhin Adrian, Talk TV International editor Isabel Oakeshott and Talk TV presenter Richard Tice.
[00:30:56]  But first, let's cross to Australia, shall we, to get the very latest on that deadly mushroom mystery.
[00:31:01]  We bought you yesterday.
[00:31:02]  It's been gripping the world.
[00:31:04]  Sky News Australia host and journalist Jenna Clark is ready to update us all on the latest.
[00:31:09]  Jenna, just run us through what has happened in the last 24 hours in this.
[00:31:15]  Well, Rosanna, if you are a little bit squeamish, you have to be prepared because this story just keeps getting even more and more terrifyingly revolting.
[00:31:22]  Beef Wellington was apparently on the menu the day of that fateful lunch, which is what Erin Patterson, who still remains a suspect, but police have told us that she still could all be very, very innocent.
[00:31:34]  And that's a direct quote from Victoria Police just this morning.
[00:31:38]  Because Beef Wellington was on the menu when those three people did suffer from death cap mushroom poisoning and have later died.
[00:31:46]  Ian Wilkinson, who was one of the pastors and the friends involved in that lunch, still remains in a critical condition in hospital.
[00:31:53]  The only latest update I have for you is that Erin Patterson, who we must reiterate, is still completely innocent.
[00:32:00]  There's no allegations being made, but she has gone to Melbourne, which is about a two-hour drive, to meet specifically with her lawyers.
[00:32:07]  Interesting, of course.
[00:32:08]  And we're just showing our viewers that sort of what we call doorstep footage there when Erin was confronted by reporters.
[00:32:13]  And of course, she looked very anguished.
[00:32:15]  She said she denied ever being involved in anything, and she obviously missed the family members that have now passed away or in-laws, we should say.
[00:32:21]  Jenna, thank you very much for the update and for getting up blindingly early for us over there in Australia.
[00:32:27]  I'm sure we'll be doing it again with you the next couple of days.
[00:32:29]  There's a lot of interest in this story.
[00:32:32]  Thanks, Rosanna.
[00:32:33]  We're coming to the PAC now here in the studio, and we've got some interesting Thursday night stories to dice up with Teenio.
[00:32:39]  Just in the commercial break there, we were talking about this first one, which we're calling bad influencers.
[00:32:43]  But it's basically about rioting, can we call it that sort of bad behaviour in central London?
[00:32:49]  This was happening yesterday.
[00:32:50]  We probably have some video to show our viewers, but teenagers basically organised on social media to all meet up in various locations around Oxford Street, which is bang smack in the middle, central London, very touristy district as well.
[00:33:03]  You can see the riot, the sort of bad behaviour that unleashed.
[00:33:06]  There was a lot of police presence because it was expected.
[00:33:09]  Basically, a note went out on TikTok to teenagers.
[00:33:12]  That makes me sound so old, a note, where they were saying to each other, come and meet up outside this particular sports shop and we're going to do a mugging.
[00:33:19]  And, you know, the language used was basically don't come unless you can run and gave people advice on what to wear.
[00:33:24]  And we were just talking about our experiences in Oxford Street recently when you go there.
[00:33:29]  And I've been quite shocked recently going how sort of how much disarray there seems to be.
[00:33:35]  I mean, Paula, you went there on Monday.
[00:33:36]  I went there on Monday and I have to say I was shocked.
[00:33:39]  I was shocked at the amount of homeless people who were there.
[00:33:44]  I was shocked at the amount of shops that were boarded up.
[00:33:48]  I was just shocked at the general state of the place.
[00:33:51]  It looked like, it didn't look like the Oxford Street that I know.
[00:33:56]  But I have to say, this story actually isn't about rampaging teenagers.
[00:34:01]  This story is about an unregulated social media.
[00:34:04]  TikTok, absolutely.
[00:34:06]  TikTok.
[00:34:06]  Ticket.
[00:34:08]  Because what I thought when I saw this was almost a time pre-social media was a 2011 summer riots, which a lot of us who lived in London at the time really lived through, which was essentially bored teenagers with nothing better to do.
[00:34:19]  I agree with Paula there that this is more about social media than it is about a culture.
[00:34:24]  I will let you finish your point of antisocial media.
[00:34:28]  Everybody knew this was going to happen.
[00:34:31]  There were messages going backwards and forwards.
[00:34:33]  I'm on TikTok.
[00:34:34]  I put up messages about the law and some of them get taken down.
[00:34:39]  And it takes me days to say to TikTok, this needs to go back up and this is the reason why.
[00:34:45]  Here we have teenagers, young people who are clearly saying come and engage in these criminal activities.
[00:34:54]  And TikTok allow these messages to continue?
[00:34:57]  I'm confused by that.
[00:34:58]  No, you're totally right about that.
[00:35:00]  And absolutely, that should not be allowed.
[00:35:02]  I mean, Richard, you've got experience of your own posts being taken down, not on TikTok, but on other platforms.
[00:35:08]  It was.
[00:35:08]  I was taken down by TikTok from apparently for hate speech and for inciting violence because I didn't want gender questioning and social transitioning in schools.
[00:35:20]  And that's what their lawyers said.
[00:35:21]  And they decided to keep the cancellation.
[00:35:23]  And yet, as Paula quite rightly says, they're quite happy to promote and allow and advertise a get-together for shoplifting and fair.
[00:35:32]  I don't think we should take away from the fact that there is a culture that has allowed this to happen in the first place.
[00:35:37]  I mean, you've got to think carefully about what is the responsibility of us as a society that we are in a position where young people think this is a way of having a fun night out.
[00:35:49]  And the reason is because there is no real fear of any consequence.
[00:35:53]  And the reason for that is that the government has stopped putting pressure on the police to prosecute each and every one of the cases of theft.
[00:36:04]  We saw the Bravman today saying that she wanted each and every one of the teenagers that was involved in this.
[00:36:09]  I think her wording was, don't quote me, this hunted down or targeted, found basically.
[00:36:13]  And yet she doesn't want to pull up the corporate, the corporates in relation to this.
[00:36:19]  We're not just talking about teenagers who are, you know, participating in criminal activity.
[00:36:24]  We're talking about teenagers who have lost their lives due to the activities of social media and parents who fight and fight and fight and fight and constantly hit brick walls because the government will not rein in social media giants.

=== NHS Waiting List Crisis (03:38) ===

[00:36:36]  And here is another example.
[00:36:37]  Let me blame the child, the teenager, the youth, who of course is doing something wrong.
[00:36:42]  Of course they are.
[00:36:42]  I'm not going to take that away from them.
[00:36:44]  But in terms of responsibility, the responsibility rests with us.
[00:36:48]  The responsibility rests with social media giants who've allowed that to happen.
[00:36:51]  They allowed that to happen.
[00:36:52]  I actually think that's the simplest thing to tackle.
[00:36:54]  You know, it's not that difficult for the government to crack down on that, to issue very, very clear instructions to social media companies that they cannot allow this.
[00:37:03]  What is much harder to tackle because it is built up over a long period of time is the culture that has allowed us to get into this place.
[00:37:12]  Look, let's move on to another story, Richard.
[00:37:14]  I'll come to you on this.
[00:37:14]  NHS waiting lists because it is a real problem now.
[00:37:19]  Topping 7.6 million people in NHS England waiting to start treatment at the end of June.
[00:37:25]  That's up from 7.5 million in May.
[00:37:28]  NHS truly creaking here.
[00:37:30]  And this is, of course, one of the Prime Minister's five key pledges that he would get the waiting list down.
[00:37:35]  And ever since, they're going up and up and up.
[00:37:38]  And he can't just blame the strikes.
[00:37:40]  This is because fundamentally, we've got an NHS that is like many parts of our public services is essentially broken.
[00:37:48]  Of course, there are elements of great work done on the front line, but the NHS needs fundamental reform.
[00:37:54]  And the government's done absolutely nothing for six months.
[00:37:58]  I mean, there are aspects of it that are just quite extraordinarily dysfunctional and ridiculous.
[00:38:04]  Just to give an example, which I gave on Mike Graham's show this morning, of a friend of mine who has a suspicious lump, wanted to get that, seemed to, of course, she would, went private because it was going to take too long to get an examination by a consultant on the NHS, went to one of the best urologists in this country, a consultant who used to work for both the NHS and the private sector up until very recently.
[00:38:30]  The consultant says, yep, you need to have that thing removed.
[00:38:33]  And the referral letter, which the consultant sent for the GP was not accepted by the NHS because he's not an NHS consultant anymore.
[00:38:42]  That is ludicrous.
[00:38:43]  The patient is now waiting to get on a waiting list.
[00:38:46]  So don't be deceived, by the way, by this 7.6 million, because there are millions of people who aren't even on the waiting list.
[00:38:53]  So I mean, some say, you know, privatization is almost inevitable at this point, or some sort of hybrid has already happened, hasn't it, Rosanna?
[00:38:59]  It's already happened.
[00:39:00]  Those who can afford go private and it's as simple as that.
[00:39:04]  And many of those who can't afford.
[00:39:05]  And I was just going to say, and many of those who can't afford put it on their credit cards and get themselves in debt.
[00:39:10]  And I just want to get some figures out here.
[00:39:11]  So in terms of the junior doctor strike tomorrow, the BMA tell us that it would cost approximately a million pounds, forgive me, a billion pounds to pay the junior doctors what they wanted.
[00:39:22]  We have other departments saying that it would cost two billion pounds.
[00:39:26]  One billion pounds, two billion pounds.
[00:39:27]  Let me just give you one example of the BBL loans, the loans that banks were able to give out when and during COVID.
[00:39:35]  How much of those £47 billion do you think the government are going to see back?
[00:39:39]  I don't want to even know.
[00:39:40]  Okay.
[00:39:41]  We're going to, but I can tell you how much we're going to write off exactly.
[00:39:44]  17 billion is estimated to be written off just on those loans at all.
[00:39:48]  Well, I think it's not going to be a good thing.
[00:39:50]  Even with the doctors paid whatever they want, it's not going to make a difference.
[00:39:53]  You've got to use the private sector.
[00:39:55]  And let's remember, the last person to use the private sector was Tony Blair.
[00:39:59]  And the waiting list came down and down and down.
[00:40:01]  And that is the sort of thing we've got to fundamentally reform.
[00:40:04]  80% of people don't care who treats them.
[00:40:06]  They just want the pain gone.
[00:40:08]  They just, exactly, just want the pain gone.
[00:40:10]  Thank the three of you for a very interesting discussion there across London, but also the NHS as well.

=== Crooked Pub Scandal Exposed (05:33) ===

[00:40:14]  Uncensored next tonight with 70% of builders saying they've fallen victim to having their skip filled with other people's rubbish.
[00:40:21]  Find out what happened when a live stream filmed a central London skip for 24 hours.
[00:40:39]  Welcome back to Uncensored, where we've decided to cover the latest streaming sensation, but not on Netflix or Amazon Prime.
[00:40:46]  No, Skip Watch TV.
[00:40:48]  Yeah, that's where hundreds of Brits have been tuning in online to watch a live streamed video of a skip.
[00:40:56]  Breaking news there.
[00:40:58]  This is the skip.
[00:40:59]  This is live footage.
[00:41:00]  We're going to treat it with all the dignity and reverence that live television news footers should be treated with.
[00:41:04]  You are watching the skip there, waiting to see if anybody approached it.
[00:41:07]  No, a bloke is just eating a fried egg in the cafe behind it.
[00:41:11]  This skip is basically a camera focused on it and it's kind of bringing up people who are sort of indecently flytipping in it.
[00:41:18]  It's an internet phenomenon now.
[00:41:20]  It was launched this week after a poll of 250 British builders revealed flytippers use the skips and it's one of their biggest pet peeves.
[00:41:28]  And of course, as all people, I think British people in particular, we like seeing, you know, catching people out doing naughty stuff, don't we?
[00:41:34]  I'm joined live by Brad and Sam from the Bald Builders Breakfast Show or Fix Radio.
[00:41:39]  They launched this crusade to end fly tipping.
[00:41:41]  Welcome to the show, guys.
[00:41:43]  Yeah, it's to stop fly tipping, but did you think it would get this much traction?
[00:41:47]  To be honest, we was having a laugh with it on the show, to be fair.
[00:41:50]  We just got my house and I've had about 20 skips on the job recently doing a refurb.
[00:41:56]  And I reckon two of them was full up with rubbish that weren't mine.
[00:42:00]  So it cost me about a thousand pounds, let's say, in skips that I shouldn't have actually paid for.
[00:42:05]  So there was Dotty bringing it up on the radio show having a laugh and a joke.
[00:42:08]  And then one of our listeners, he rang in and he said that he found a dead pig in one.
[00:42:16]  Then he looked in the body bag and it was a blue eye looking at him.
[00:42:19]  Oh my god.
[00:42:24]  Sorry, I shouldn't laugh.
[00:42:25]  That's terrible of a pig, but oh my gosh.
[00:42:27]  Oh, it is.
[00:42:28]  Yeah.
[00:42:29]  This is extraordinary stuff.
[00:42:31]  Look, let's show our viewers some of the people you've caught on your live stream here.
[00:42:38]  This has, you know, captured people's imagination.
[00:42:41]  Look, let's.
[00:42:42]  Oh, I mean, we've all been a little guilty maybe of a prep coffee cup or something at some point.
[00:42:47]  Guilty, I don't know.
[00:42:48]  I have to hold my hands up for that one.
[00:42:51]  What's going on here?
[00:42:52]  But it's serious stuff, isn't it?
[00:42:55]  Let's give you some stats.
[00:42:56]  At least 70% of builders claim to have fallen victim to having their skip filled with other people's rubbish.
[00:43:01]  You said it cost you almost a thousand quid at one point.
[00:43:04]  Do you hope that this campaign will stop people, make people think?
[00:43:08]  Let's be honest, it ain't.
[00:43:10]  We know it ain't gonna, but at least it brings a little bit of awareness to the situation.
[00:43:14]  The other thing we could do is hire a doorman for skips.
[00:43:17]  We were thinking about that, having a security guard.
[00:43:20]  We know I'm a fucking dog.
[00:43:22]  Love this.
[00:43:23]  Very good.
[00:43:24]  We just want to highlight our viewers to another campaign you've got going, which is the best colour cup of tea.
[00:43:30]  This again on your radio show.
[00:43:33]  Let's ask the panel here if you can see that, where you fit on the spectrum.
[00:43:39]  I'm certainly more in the 2C column.
[00:43:41]  Oh, 2C.
[00:43:44]  I'm not sure my eyesight is good enough for this one.
[00:43:47]  Second row, far right.
[00:43:48]  Second row, far right.
[00:43:51]  That's quite milky tice.
[00:43:52]  That's quite milky.
[00:43:53]  Yeah, that's roughly the same as mine, actually.
[00:43:55]  Yeah.
[00:43:55]  That's what happens when you first, you see.
[00:43:57]  You can't do that.
[00:43:58]  You've got to have milk in second.
[00:44:00]  Absolutely.
[00:44:01]  Milk in second.
[00:44:02]  I think you'll unite the nation on that.
[00:44:04]  Tell us how you like to have your tea, lads.
[00:44:07]  I like my cup of tea.
[00:44:08]  I like a Yorkshire tea bag, two sweeteners, milk goes in afterwards, give it a little brew, I don't know, 10 seconds or so, and that'll do me lovely.
[00:44:15]  PG tip, milk in first, two sugars.
[00:44:18]  He's a wrong one.
[00:44:22]  I'm with you on the PG tips, not the sugar.
[00:44:24]  What's the most cups of tea you've ever drunk in one session when you've been on a building side, you reckon?
[00:44:30]  On every night, I saw 15 cups.
[00:44:33]  Oh my god, 15.
[00:44:35]  No time to do any work.
[00:44:36]  You've been in the loo all day.
[00:44:38]  That's what I'm talking about, you see.
[00:44:40]  Day ray, we're going around the day right.
[00:44:43]  Before you go, we want to ask you about one vaguely serious story in the news at the moment, which is about this crooked pub.
[00:44:49]  This is a pub, of course, in England.
[00:44:51]  It was supposedly one of Britain's wonkiest buildings, and it was bought by somebody.
[00:44:57]  And then we won't get into the logistics of this legal battle, but basically it's burnt down.
[00:45:01]  And people are wondering whether it should be rebuilt as crooked.
[00:45:04]  If you guys got the job to come and rebuild it, would you take it on and would you build it crooked?
[00:45:09]  Yeah, I think so.
[00:45:10]  I think after on every weekend, Friday, Saturday night, if we turn up Monday morning, it'll probably look like that to be fair.
[00:45:20]  You're five, you're not hired.
[00:45:25]  You guys have been great value.
[00:45:26]  The bald builders of Fixed Radio, thank you so much.
[00:45:30]  We'll bring our viewers back to the live foot viewing of the skip.
[00:45:33]  We really hope that we're going to gatch somebody live here on Piers Morgan Uncensored, dropping their rubbish in.
[00:45:37]  But I just want to come back to the pack and ask you, do you think you've been guilty of this?
[00:45:41]  Don't worry, we won't tell the authorities.
[00:45:44]  I am a practicing barrister, as you know, so I'm going to plead the fifth on this one.

=== Rebuilding the Crooked Pub (01:04) ===

[00:45:48]  Oh, okay, you're really into that.
[00:45:50]  Isabel, you shook your head.
[00:45:51]  No, no, no, I definitely haven't.
[00:45:52]  And I love the way the builders all said it cost them a thousand pounds because in reality, mostly it costs the client a thousand pounds.
[00:45:59]  £1,200.
[00:46:00]  Whoever is actually quite exactly that, whoever's hired the builders has to pay for the skip.
[00:46:04]  So I don't know.
[00:46:05]  I've probably been a victim of it.
[00:46:07]  That's what I feel like.
[00:46:08]  I may have accidentally let slip as I walked past with my Pretamonger cup and just happened to slip it by mistake into the poor.
[00:46:17]  We have just witnessed an honest politician.
[00:46:21]  There you are.
[00:46:21]  You see, that's the difference between me and the rest of them, Paula.
[00:46:24]  Goodness me.
[00:46:26]  But I also want to say, I think the guys have missed a beat on that skip because if that was on a residential road, it would have been full bunny.
[00:46:32]  Oh, absolutely.
[00:46:33]  But people would be putting chairs in, a sofa, a mattress.
[00:46:37]  There'd have to be a mattress.
[00:46:39]  That's the next phase of their expose.
[00:46:41]  I can absolutely.
[00:46:43]  I'm hooked.
[00:46:44]  Screw the WhatsApp files.
[00:46:45]  How about the skips files?
[00:46:48]  That is it from me and all of us here in the studio.
[00:46:50]  Whatever you're up to tonight, make sure it's Not sensitive.