Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20230731_piers-morgan-uncensored-sunaks-oil-and-gas-expansi
Aired: 2023-07-31
Duration: 46:58


=== Sunak Expands Oil and Gas (15:25) ===

[00:00:00]  Ben, late for summer.
[00:00:02]  Limited availability.
[00:00:03]  Check coverage at ee.co.uk slash coverage.
[00:00:13]  Hello there, I'm Rosanna Lockwood on Uncensored.
[00:00:16]  Tonight, Rishi Sunak gets mean on green as he launches an expansion of oil and gas exploration and says banning everything is not the answer to climate change.
[00:00:26]  But with record heat waves in Europe, will Britain find itself on the wrong side of history?
[00:00:32]  We're going to be debating that.
[00:00:33]  An estimated 150,000 Brits went to Turkey last year for cheap cosmetic surgery worth billions for that country.
[00:00:42]  But with more and more patients having botched procedures, should the NHS and the taxpayer bear the cost of fixing patients' problems?
[00:00:50]  And the Gen Z women doing, quote, lazy girl jobs.
[00:00:54]  A new anti-work movement is taking TikTok by storm, with women in particular boasting about getting paid well to do the bare minimum.
[00:01:07]  Live from the news building in London, this is Piers Morgan, uncensored with Rosanna Lockwood.
[00:01:15]  Now, net zero, when I say those two words, what do you think?
[00:01:19]  Do you think, yeah, cool, something we've all got to do to save the planet?
[00:01:22]  Or do you think nonsense, a sham, a lie we're being sold that's going to make us all poorer?
[00:01:28]  That we have these same fiery debates about climate change every summer now when we witness more wildfires and heat waves around the world.
[00:01:35]  But yes, I know, I know, it's pouring with rain in the UK at the moment.
[00:01:39]  It feels more like autumn, so global warming isn't real.
[00:01:43]  And what about those historical weather patterns and El Niño, those charts people can point to to reassure themselves this is all hokeum and path of the course?
[00:01:52]  Because who really wants to believe that we're making the planet uninhabitable through our actions when top scientists have been warning us for years about the danger of burning fossil fuels into the atmosphere?
[00:02:02]  Because it doesn't feel nice, does it, to admit that?
[00:02:05]  It's scary, quite frankly, and it means we're all somehow at fault for driving cars, for taking planes and eating intensively farmed food.
[00:02:14]  And we're all just trying to live a nice life, aren't we?
[00:02:16]  We're only here for a short time.
[00:02:18]  And things were seemingly fine up until a few years ago.
[00:02:21]  Some people are struggling to pay rent now.
[00:02:23]  There's a housing crisis and the cost of basic food items is going through the roof.
[00:02:27]  So it's easier to just call the net zero stuff bogus or a scam or even a conspiracy to control the way we live.
[00:02:34]  But I am not here to insult your intelligence like that.
[00:02:37]  I know, you know, there is a difference between global climate change and the daily weather patterns here in Britain.
[00:02:43]  And I know a lot of you actually care about it, even if just for a little bit.
[00:02:46]  Here in Britain, I think we're generally pretty good at doing our part, taking out the recycling, listening to scientists, doing what we can to help others.
[00:02:54]  And it's not like we're in control of a lot of this stuff either.
[00:02:56]  It's the private companies we buy the stuff from and the politicians we vote into power.
[00:03:00]  Recent polling actually showing a majority of Conservative voters considering switching to Labour think that Rishi Sunak has not done enough to tackle climate change.
[00:03:10]  And as if to double down, today, Prime Minister Sunak announcing more than 100 new drilling licenses for oil and gas in the North Sea.
[00:03:18]  A huge investment into fossil fuels at a time when other countries are turning away.
[00:03:23]  The thing is, I think most of us want to keep taking planes to go on holiday, don't we?
[00:03:27]  To escape this wet little island we call home.
[00:03:29]  And trust me, me included, I just came back from a holiday.
[00:03:32]  We want to keep driving our much-loved cars.
[00:03:34]  And I think that's where a lot of this debate comes from.
[00:03:37]  We feel attacked for our choices.
[00:03:39]  So we look for a narrative that makes us feel better.
[00:03:42]  And I'm not here to preach.
[00:03:43]  I'm not here to make you feel better or make you feel worse about those choices.
[00:03:46]  I'm in exactly the same boat as you.
[00:03:48]  I just think we need to find a way to live with all this while not choosing to be stupid because we don't like the truth.
[00:03:54]  If we can have some calm analysis of the facts without hysteria from either side, whether it be Just Stop Oil or the anti-net zero brigade, if we can all just stop attacking each other for the decisions we make, then we can all be better informed, make the choices we want based on that information, and keep an eye on the future we're leaving behind.
[00:04:11]  And I think we would all appreciate that.
[00:04:14]  So, what will Britain's legacy be in this debate?
[00:04:16]  And is the government now moving backwards in its approach to tackling climate change?
[00:04:20]  I know what I think.
[00:04:21]  Let's see what these people think.
[00:04:22]  I'm joined by Associate Editor of the Mirror, Kevin Maguire, Harry Wilkinson, head of policy at Net Zero Watch, and Just Stop Oil protester Alex de Koenig joining us from down the line.
[00:04:33]  Alex, as you're there, I'll start with you.
[00:04:35]  Just talk to me a little bit about what you thought when you heard this government announcement today about these hundred or so licenses for drilling in the North Sea.
[00:04:44]  Well, first of all, Rosanna, thank you for having me on the show, and I really loved your introduction.
[00:04:48]  You've got so many things right.
[00:04:50]  You're right, the everyday person doesn't want to, you know, give up their cars, give up their planes.
[00:04:55]  And we're not asking people to.
[00:04:57]  Ultimately, the responsibility shouldn't be on the everyday person, it should be on the government who are betraying us by opening up these over 100 new oil and gas licenses.
[00:05:06]  I was livid when I saw that.
[00:05:08]  This is a direct site, almost act of war against the young people and the people in the global south who are going to suffer first from the climate crisis.
[00:05:17]  As you say, we've seen the wildfires, we've seen 40-degree weather in the UK, we know it's going to keep getting worse and worse.
[00:05:23]  It's about time that we started trying to do something in order to stop it from happening.
[00:05:29]  We need to stop all new oil and gas, in line with what Lord Devon, the former head of the Climate Change Committee, has said before he retired because Rishi Sunak wasn't doing his part, in line with what the cross-parliamentary environmental committee said, in line with what the UN is saying, the International Energy Agency.
[00:05:47]  This is not a party issue.
[00:05:49]  We all want a livable future, and we should be striving for that.
[00:05:52]  We should be working together against the government who are now pushing through these crankily criminal policies.
[00:05:59]  Alex, thank you.
[00:06:00]  I want to come back to you and talk about the role that Just Stop Oil has played in this debate.
[00:06:04]  Obviously, you're speaking on behalf of them today.
[00:06:06]  So, we will come back to him.
[00:06:07]  I want to come to Harry in the studio now and just talk about net zero as a term.
[00:06:13]  You work for Net Zero Watch, it's a sort of policy group.
[00:06:18]  And do you think it's all hokem?
[00:06:20]  It's all bogus?
[00:06:20]  No, absolutely not.
[00:06:22]  We should be concerned about climate change, but we should have policies that protect people's lives, that mean that they can still do the things that they've been used to doing at an affordable price.
[00:06:32]  I think Rishi Sunak was quite right to say today that net zero shouldn't mean banning things, it shouldn't mean an unfair cost burden.
[00:06:41]  And that's what we believe in.
[00:06:43]  And I think it's right that he's finally woken up to this.
[00:06:45]  The political class, just for too long, hasn't actually been dealing with the cost of net zero.
[00:06:51]  They've been talking about ambition, they've been talking about what can we do to tackle climate change, but they haven't been thinking about the costs.
[00:06:57]  There's now more of a cost to that.
[00:06:59]  And when it comes to the licenses for oil and gas in the North Sea, we have to make a choice.
[00:07:04]  Do we want this oil and gas to come from Russia, Qatar?
[00:07:07]  Do we want it to come from domestic sources?
[00:07:10]  We still rely on 75% of our energy needs come from fossil fuels.
[00:07:16]  So, if we say no to our own supplies, it just means bring it in from elsewhere.
[00:07:20]  Yeah, Harry, I can get behind the supply security point of view here.
[00:07:25]  Kevin, I'll come to you on this because, you know, it's easy for us to understand now since the recent war in Ukraine and what we saw happen to energy prices.
[00:07:33]  And we know we need to generate more energy from the United Kingdom, so we don't need to import it all in.
[00:07:38]  I can buy that argument.
[00:07:39]  What I necessarily can't buy is that it should be fossil fuels.
[00:07:43]  No, well, Harry's group is hostile to measures and the net zero target.
[00:07:48]  So it's not just an independent research organisation and questions have been raised about the funding and who funds the commercial interests funding that.
[00:07:57]  No, there is an issue of energy security.
[00:07:59]  In fact, the government, Richie Sunak, set up a Department of Energy Security and Net Zero.
[00:08:04]  You can see which comes first, where his emphasis is.
[00:08:08]  And we at the moment import about 40% of our oil, 47% of our gas.
[00:08:14]  But we don't control what comes out of the North Sea.
[00:08:17]  In fact, Greg Hans, a former energy minister, who is now chair of the Tory party, saying, more gas coming out won't reduce your bill because it just goes into international energy.
[00:08:27]  Exactly.
[00:08:27]  It's not as if it's nationalised.
[00:08:29]  Now, what's wrong here, I think, the Sunak and most of those 100 licenses won't produce a drop of oil or a whiff of gas.
[00:08:39]  They will just fail.
[00:08:40]  The North Sea itself is actually pretty pumped out now.
[00:08:43]  There's very little left because we've been extracting it for so long.
[00:08:48]  But what he's basically saying is he's going to be a fossil fool.
[00:08:52]  He's going to be a prime minister sticking with fossil fuels rather than try to make that jump to renewables and, for instance, wind turbines on land, the cheapest, most secure form of electricity.
[00:09:07]  And yet the Tory party is full of NIMBYs who just oppose that.
[00:09:11]  This is where he's getting it wrong.
[00:09:12]  This is before you even think about saving the planet.
[00:09:15]  You'll just think about your own energy bill.
[00:09:17]  Harry talks about cost.
[00:09:19]  Well, if we're going to have cost, we'd have more wind turbines.
[00:09:22]  We wouldn't be drilling in the North Sea.
[00:09:26]  Harry, I'll give you a chance.
[00:09:27]  But Alex, I know you wanted to join in there as you were listening to Kevin.
[00:09:31]  I also want to talk just generally about this being a political move because obviously the current government want to stay in power and they think this is going to be the way forward because, and some would say this, that the actions of organisations like Just Stop Oil have politicised this debate so much and caused some people to turn against the climate change cause.
[00:09:49]  So the government are riding off the back of this, basically, and pursuing this huge fossil fuel policy.
[00:09:57]  Well, no, I don't think that it's Just Stop Oil that has been politicising this issue.
[00:10:01]  I think the government are deliberately trying to politicize it themselves.
[00:10:06]  But I think that tide will turn when people realize that it takes an average of 28 years to get oil and gas from the North Sea after granting a license.
[00:10:17]  28 years.
[00:10:17]  We cannot wait 28 years.
[00:10:19]  We all know how bad the climate crisis is right now.
[00:10:21]  We've seen the wildfires in Rhodes.
[00:10:23]  We've seen the orange skies in New York.
[00:10:26]  We've seen how high our energy bills are.
[00:10:28]  We simply cannot wait 28 years.
[00:10:31]  I think once people have realized that they're being lied to by this government, they're going to be furious.
[00:10:36]  And they too are going to start coming onto the streets and joining other groups like Just Stop Oil, like Extinction Rebellion.
[00:10:43]  Are they going to vote Labour?
[00:10:44]  Are they going to do whatever they can?
[00:10:46]  Because honestly, it's a farce.
[00:10:48]  They're subsidising millions and millions of pounds into North Sea oil and gas, even though, as one of the guests has correctly said, onshore wind is by far the cheapest form of energy and is being banned right now.
[00:11:01]  Harry, I want to come to you on the sort of the business and the political rationale for this because there has been some reception internationally today of this, of Britain's decision to do this and Sunak's government decision, that it's not the right direction to be moving in for investment in the future of the United Kingdom.
[00:11:16]  It's obviously not the right decision for climate change worldwide.
[00:11:19]  No doubt about that because it's fossil fuels.
[00:11:21]  But it just proves that it's a sort of, we're a country trapped in the past.
[00:11:24]  We're still trying to generate fossil fuel jobs.
[00:11:26]  Absolutely not.
[00:11:27]  It shows we're being realistic about our energy needs.
[00:11:30]  There are plenty of other countries that are looking at their own energy supplies.
[00:11:33]  It's not an either or.
[00:11:35]  It doesn't stop us looking into renewables if we make sure that North Sea oil and gas can still be exploited.
[00:11:42]  And we have to remember there's 200,000 plus jobs, mainly in Scotland, that are dependent on this industry.
[00:11:48]  Do we just want to let them see those jobs go?
[00:11:51]  Or do we actually want to give time for people to reskill and to have a productive economy?
[00:11:56]  If Britain does net zero expensively, who is going to want to copy us?
[00:12:00]  You look at America's approach that many people have been saying that we should copy of subsidising all of these green industries.
[00:12:06]  But the developing world can't do that.
[00:12:09]  You know, they can't afford these huge subsidies.
[00:12:11]  If we want to promote an approach that other countries can copy, it has to be based off competition.
[00:12:17]  We have to discover the most reliable green technologies by allowing them to compete against each other.
[00:12:23]  Yeah, reliable green technologies.
[00:12:24]  I'm with you on that.
[00:12:25]  Absolutely.
[00:12:26]  Kevin, wouldn't you rather see this type of investment and job creation in hydrogen capture?
[00:12:31]  Yeah, carbon capture rather than hydrogen and renewables.
[00:12:33]  Yeah, well, carbon capture is promoted by the oil and gas companies to try and keep themselves in business.
[00:12:38]  We would still be literally burning the planet, digging it out and burning it, which is what we've been doing for centuries.
[00:12:44]  And look, that 1.5 target, which scientists say the Earth heats by 1.5% compared to pre-industrial levels, you'll get these massive weather changes, which you'll either have drought or you'll have floods, you'll have storms.
[00:12:58]  Well, we're about 1.2% already there.
[00:13:01]  Look, we're about 80% of the way of that target.
[00:13:03]  It might be exceeding that.
[00:13:05]  The way to invest is in renewables and nuclear power.
[00:13:08]  That is the way.
[00:13:09]  Now, there's problems with waste nuclear power.
[00:13:11]  I won't deny that, but you get a great big baseload.
[00:13:14]  We've just got to stop this idea of being hooked on fossil fuels.
[00:13:19]  Look, we've got to move with the future.
[00:13:21]  We can't be in the dinosaur age forever.
[00:13:23]  Yeah, Alex, I want to give you the last word on this because you've joined us outside of the studio this evening.
[00:13:28]  But net zero is becoming a really, some would argue, toxic term because of the way that it's been characterized currently in the media and part of the debate.
[00:13:37]  How do you turn the ship around?
[00:13:40]  Well, we don't need the term net zero.
[00:13:41]  Net zero is commonly associated with net zero by 2050.
[00:13:44]  2050 is too late to do any action.
[00:13:47]  We all know that 27 years from now is too late.
[00:13:50]  So we need to be talking about renewables.
[00:13:52]  We need to be talking about the cleaner air we can get from that, the lower energy loss.
[00:13:56]  We need to be talking about insulation and the warmer homes we can have and the cheaper public transport that's going to help people take trains as opposed to drive as often.
[00:14:04]  We need to be talking about a positive vision of the future and not promoting these lies about North Sea oil and gas.
[00:14:11]  We don't need it.
[00:14:12]  It's as simple as that.
[00:14:13]  There's no economic reason.
[00:14:15]  There's no moral reason.
[00:14:17]  Let's just move on with the debate.
[00:14:19]  Look, Just Stop Oil are going to stop the disruption as soon as all these North Sea oil and gas licenses stop.
[00:14:24]  And we all want the same thing.
[00:14:25]  So let's all pressure the government in order to make sure this stops.
[00:14:29]  And then Just Stop Oil can stop and we can all go on with our days and live happy lives.
[00:14:33]  Doesn't that sound better?
[00:14:34]  Alex, can you admit though that Just Op Oil isn't the most popular organisation in the UK?
[00:14:39]  I mean, what's next for you guys?
[00:14:42]  How are you going to turn that ship around?
[00:14:44]  Well, this isn't about popularity.
[00:14:47]  Rishi Sunak isn't popular.
[00:14:48]  I think we're actually even more popular than Rishi Sunak at the moment.
[00:14:52]  So a lot of history has shown that social movements don't need to be popular to make change.
[00:14:58]  But we're really trying to hire to make the connection between oil and gas and the climate events that we're seeing now.
[00:15:04]  We're trying to highlight the hypocrisy that Rishi Sunak is making all these lies.
[00:15:10]  So yeah, we're going to keep doing what we're doing because it is working.
[00:15:14]  Every other major political party has said no new oil and gas.
[00:15:18]  And it's really starting to help turn the tide.
[00:15:20]  Harry, Alex, Kevin, thank you all very much for joining me.
[00:15:23]  Really interesting debate.
[00:15:25]  Thank you.

=== Cosmetic Surgery in Turkey (12:21) ===

[00:15:26]  Well and uncensored next tonight, over 100 Brits needed emergency NHS care after returning from places like Turkey in 2022 to go under the knife.
[00:15:35]  So are the cheaper prices worth it and who should bear the cost for surgery gone wrong?
[00:15:39]  Coming up next.
[00:15:57]  Welcome back to Fears Morgan Uncensored.
[00:15:59]  Me, Rosanna Lockwood, sitting in the chair for the next few weeks.
[00:16:01]  Now, taxpayers last year spent a record £1.7 million on fixing Brits, botched by cosmetic surgery carried out abroad, with one case costing the NHS £100,000.
[00:16:15]  That was to fix a dodgy tummy tuck.
[00:16:17]  Cheap flights, package deals, surplus of surgeries have all made Turkey one of the top destinations for Brits desperate for the body of their dreams.
[00:16:25]  But at what cost?
[00:16:26]  British cosmetic surgeons are now accusing their Turkish counterparts of using the NHS as a taxpayer-funded safety net for their poor aftercare.
[00:16:35]  So, who should be picking up the bill for these surgeries?
[00:16:38]  Let's talk to two people who have undergone surgeries in Turkey but who had very different experiences.
[00:16:44]  I'm joined by Sarah Platt, who underwent weight loss surgery that unfortunately went very wrong in Deer indeed.
[00:16:51]  Also joined by Dinzel Seegas, who flew from the US to undergo leg-lengthening surgery.
[00:16:57]  Also, joining us.
[00:16:58]  Thank you both very much.
[00:17:00]  And live from Istanbul, the Turkish cosmetic surgeon, Dr. Erjim Guven.
[00:17:04]  And joining me in the studio to react to all this Talk TV contributor Esther Kraku.
[00:17:08]  Now, Sarah, I will come to you first because this story is about surgeries that have gone wrong essentially and coming back to the UK with those.
[00:17:18]  Just tell us what happened to you.
[00:17:21]  So I had weight loss surgery and that went totally fine.
[00:17:24]  And I lost 12 stone.
[00:17:26]  I needed it not for health reasons.
[00:17:29]  I needed emergency operation and I couldn't have it because I was overweight during COVID.
[00:17:35]  So after I'd lost all my weight, because I lost it so quickly, I was left with a saggy, hanging, really bad skin.
[00:17:43]  And it was blistering, it was rubbing, it was burning.
[00:17:46]  I couldn't deal with it anymore.
[00:17:47]  And I couldn't afford the price in the UK.
[00:17:50]  So I researched like for 17 months and I flew out to Turkey and basically he left me in a complete net of mess.
[00:17:59]  He operated on me when I was awake and they held me down and I've got complex PTSD from that.
[00:18:07]  I've been left with gaping holes in my stomach.
[00:18:09]  They've had to remove my boobs.
[00:18:12]  I've been left with cuts across my back that wasn't even supposed to happen anyway.
[00:18:18]  I can't lift my arms above my head because he's taking too much skin off.
[00:18:22]  He's taking too much skin off my stomach.
[00:18:24]  So there's no way of closing my stomach.
[00:18:27]  And he's just totally destroyed me.
[00:18:29]  Sarah, I'm so sorry to hear about that experience.
[00:18:32]  Absolutely traumatic.
[00:18:35]  Thank you for sharing the details with us as part of this story.
[00:18:38]  I just want to ask you what advice you would give to anyone else who is considering a procedure in Turkey because your first one was successful.
[00:18:47]  It was successful, but there was no aftercare.
[00:18:49]  There was zero aftercare.
[00:18:52]  And then I was recommended, obviously, to like the price difference was half the price in Turkey.
[00:18:57]  It was still £15,000, but it was half the price of the UK.
[00:19:01]  What I would say was, don't do it.
[00:19:04]  Like it's literally like Russian roulette.
[00:19:06]  You don't know what's going to happen.
[00:19:08]  There's no regulations over there.
[00:19:09]  There's nothing.
[00:19:10]  And they don't care.
[00:19:11]  Once they've got your money, they do not care.
[00:19:13]  They don't.
[00:19:14]  Sarah, thank you very much for sharing your experience with us.
[00:19:16]  I want to go to Dr. Erjim Guven now, who joins us from Turkey, a cosmetic surgeon.
[00:19:21]  Listening to that story, sir, we're not saying that that is representative of all surgery in Turkey.
[00:19:28]  Of course, we're not.
[00:19:29]  But listening to that story, what does it make you think?
[00:19:33]  Just the people think that in Turkey the cosmetic surgery is very low cost and they just think about the cost about the surgery.
[00:19:44]  The people should think about the result firstly and the experienced surgeons they should find very experienced surgeons in Turkey.
[00:19:55]  Many young surgeons do very low cost operations here in Turkey but the operations result mostly is very successful in Turkey.
[00:20:08]  But the cost is very different from hospital to hospital.
[00:20:13]  If you find a high class hospital, you cannot find like this kind of hospital even in UK.
[00:20:21]  This is very high class hospital we have in Turkey, but you should pay more than like the low cost companies in Turkey.
[00:20:31]  The tourism agency make the some health organization in Turkey.
[00:20:38]  But if you find some tourism agency in Turkey, you are going to have very low cost surgeries here.
[00:20:47]  If you directly reach to the surgeons and connect with them, they are going to do the best things for you.
[00:20:55]  Sarah, your experience was an expensive one though, right?
[00:20:59]  Yeah, sorry, but what you're saying is totally rubbish, I've got to be honest, because I researched for 70 months.
[00:21:05]  I went, I flew out last year and visited eight different surgeons, literally.
[00:21:10]  The one I picked was the most expensive.
[00:21:12]  He had amazing clinic, amazing reviews, and he still did knock out a plan.
[00:21:16]  So it was not cheap.
[00:21:18]  It was literally.
[00:21:19]  So it's going to have to do that.
[00:21:20]  I've seen all the hospitals.
[00:21:21]  I went to all the clinics, everything.
[00:21:23]  Everything.
[00:21:24]  And of course, we'd like to restate that the doctor joining us on the show today is not the doctor that worked with Sarah, but also you were just responding to the comments made there.
[00:21:33]  Thank you, Sarah.
[00:21:34]  Let's cross now to Denzel as well, who actually had a very different experience.
[00:21:38]  Denzel, you had leg lengthening surgery in Turkey.
[00:21:42]  Talk us through what that was like.
[00:21:45]  So my experience with limb lengthening surgery was actually amazing for me.
[00:21:49]  I originally was going to get it in America, but they have a rehabilitation center and they were much more costly.
[00:21:56]  So after doing a bit more research about two weeks before my appointment in America, I actually found a few centers in Turkey that did the process.
[00:22:04]  Well, one that I stumbled upon that I did the most research into, I actually found a rehabilitation center and had like a ton of successful surgeries.
[00:22:12]  So I flew out like right after doing my research and finding out about them.
[00:22:16]  I flew out and I did my surgery there and I actually did the surgery twice to get to all I did my upper legs and lower legs and I've had a very successful experience with it just in my recovery while I was there.
[00:22:27]  It was actually my free I've ever had and it was very successful for me.
[00:22:32]  I couldn't be happier with the results.
[00:22:34]  But when you hear Sarah's story, obviously a very, very different experience.
[00:22:38]  Would that make you think twice about pursuing more surgery in Turkey or advising other people to do so?
[00:22:45]  So I don't plan on getting any other surgeries.
[00:22:47]  Height was my only issue that I had with myself really.
[00:22:50]  But the center that I went through, I would say anyone.
[00:22:53]  I've actually made a whole page and I promote them on my social media just because of my experience with them.
[00:22:58]  I haven't seen any unsuccessful surgeries.
[00:23:00]  I've only heard of one, but I couldn't tell you much about their story.
[00:23:05]  It was just some random person that messaged me online.
[00:23:07]  But it's definitely not for everyone.
[00:23:09]  It was the most painful process I've ever been through.
[00:23:12]  But it was, like I said, worth it for me overall because height was something that really stuck with me.
[00:23:18]  Thank you very much, Denzel, for sharing your story with us.
[00:23:20]  I want to come to the studio now and speak to Esther, who has been watching all of this with me for stories.
[00:23:26]  You know, and Sarah and Denzel are still with us and obviously have had very different experiences.
[00:23:31]  Are is particularly traumatic.
[00:23:33]  When it comes to people making the personal choice to go have cosmetic surgery, I want to disclose I have had cosmetic surgery.
[00:23:39]  I had a nose job in Dubai a few years ago.
[00:23:42]  I was living there.
[00:23:43]  I didn't fly there for it.
[00:23:44]  There you go.
[00:23:45]  That was my recovery.
[00:23:46]  Very painful.
[00:23:47]  I went for a medical procedure and they took off the bump on my nose while I was in there.
[00:23:51]  No regrets at all.
[00:23:52]  I think anyone should pursue cosmetic surgery responsibly if they want to.
[00:23:57]  It can be absolutely life-changing, Esther.
[00:23:59]  But in terms of flying somewhere to go do it, what are your thoughts on that?
[00:24:03]  I think if you understand the risks and you are prepared for what comes with it, I think that's fine.
[00:24:09]  I think in the context of the NHS, because we're talking about in the context of the NHS having to foot the bill for botch surgeries, I think that's a reality that comes with socialized healthcare.
[00:24:18]  I mean, if we really wanted to get to the crux of the issue, we should be talking about obesity and alcoholism because these are choices that people make.
[00:24:24]  Well, in the case of obesity, you can argue that it's linked to mental health.
[00:24:27]  But at the end of the day, getting to that state is because of personal choices.
[00:24:31]  And yet, the NHS spends most of its budget on rectifying lifestyle-related illnesses like this.
[00:24:36]  I think £1.7 million for bot surgery is actually a steal.
[00:24:39]  If we could exchange that for all the costs that we spend on all the amount of money that's spent on lifestyle-related illnesses, I think the NHS would be a much better state.
[00:24:48]  But the reality is, at the end of the day, people have to take personal responsibility for the choices that they make.
[00:24:53]  You could go to a country where you don't have any social support, you don't have any relatives around, aftercare is may or may not exist, and that's a risk that you take by going abroad to get surgery.
[00:25:02]  So, these are all the things that people need to consider.
[00:25:04]  Absolutely.
[00:25:05]  And do you think, by the way, that there should be any advisory from the government or from health bodies or from plastic surgery associations about Turkey based on what we're hearing?
[00:25:13]  I don't think necessarily because, yes, we usually use the example of Turkey because it's so popular and common.
[00:25:18]  But, you know, increasingly people are going to India for sort of eye surgery.
[00:25:22]  The Middle East, Dubai, I've heard of as well.
[00:25:24]  So I think Turkey, just because of, you know, it's what we know, but there are other places as well that people go to.
[00:25:29]  At the end of the day, I think we've become so infantilized as a society that I don't think it's necessary for the government to say this is your responsibility.
[00:25:36]  But I do think if we're concerned about the repercussions with regards to the costs in the NHS, we really should be talking about obesity and alcoholism as opposed to botch surgeries.
[00:25:46]  Dr. Gooven, I want to end this discussion coming back to you because again, you're not representative of all cosmetic surgeons.
[00:25:53]  You weren't related to the bot surgery we were talking about earlier on in the show.
[00:25:56]  But want to ask for your advice to anyone considering flying not just to Turkey but to somewhere else in the world for cosmetic surgery.
[00:26:05]  How should that be done responsibly?
[00:26:08]  I just want to recommend to the people, UK people, just first time they should make interviews with the surgeons, real interview, live, because they need to see the environment and the hospitals of the like surgery going to do.
[00:26:30]  So it is very important to talk with the surgeons.
[00:26:33]  It's not fine to share the photographs and have some surgeries about the photographs.
[00:26:41]  You need to talk with the surgeons and interview with the surgeons, consultation, and later decide about the surgery in Turkey.
[00:26:50]  It is very important and the first thing that we advise for the UK people.
[00:26:55]  If you come to Turkey and see the hospitals, if you look around the hospitals and the environment, the surgerization and especially the physicians experiment is very important for the successful surgery results.
[00:27:14]  It's very important.
[00:27:16]  Do you think your cosmetic surgery industry is a positive part of Turkey's reputation?
[00:27:22]  Yes, because in Turkey there is many physicians that's well educated in plastic surgery.
[00:27:31]  You can find very, very high-end surgery procedures in Turkey.
[00:27:37]  And many surgeons have a very good reputation in Turkey.
[00:27:42]  If you can find good surgeons, you can have good results as well.

=== The Lazy Girl Debate (10:19) ===

[00:27:47]  Of course, but there are always, of course, examples of stories like we had from Sarah this evening as well.
[00:27:53]  I want to thank particularly our two case studies who've shared their stories this evening, Sarah Platt and Dinzel Seegas.
[00:27:59]  Dr. Gouver for your insight.
[00:28:00]  Esther here in the studio.
[00:28:02]  Thanks.
[00:28:04]  Well, Uncentered next with swathes of young women choosing, quote, lazy girl jobs.
[00:28:09]  What on earth is motivating them to turn their backs on good old-fashioned hard work?
[00:28:13]  We'll be debating that next.
[00:28:29]  Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored with me, Rosanna Lockwood.
[00:28:32]  Now, we have all heard of the work smarter, not harder, concept, haven't we?
[00:28:36]  But a new workplace term is going viral on social media, which encourages women to achieve an easier work-life balance.
[00:28:44]  Coined the lazy girl job, content creators urge young women to quietly quit their jobs and do the bare minimum.
[00:28:51]  Let's take a look.
[00:28:53]  Like a lazy girl job is like a job that does not require an intense amount of work.
[00:28:59]  I feel like it's laid back.
[00:29:01]  And also, there's a lot of jobs out there where you could make like 60 to 80k, so like pretty comfortable salaries and not do that much work and be remote.
[00:29:10]  So I have one of those lazy girl jobs.
[00:29:11]  That's why I make videos while I'm sitting at Target waiting on my order in the middle of the day.
[00:29:15]  Work in two hours instead of eight hours and you're on a salary, so you still get paid regardless.
[00:29:18]  And then you can go do whatever you want.
[00:29:20]  Fond lazy girl jobs.
[00:29:21]  Not because we're being lazy.
[00:29:23]  Well, joining me now to discuss all of this.
[00:29:25]  Socialist commentator and author Grace Blakely.
[00:29:28]  Grace, I mean, when you're watching that, I personally find it a little bit aspirational, not going to lie.
[00:29:34]  I know I've got the kind of job a lot of people would kill for, but it's certainly not a lazy girl job.
[00:29:40]  And when I saw those TikToks and see these girls sort of saying, basically take an admin job, get as much salary as you can, clock in as few hours as possible and just slope off home.
[00:29:49]  I mean, I kind of slightly support it.
[00:29:52]  Oh, totally.
[00:29:53]  I completely support it.
[00:29:54]  I mean, I've currently lost my voice slightly, as you can tell, from enjoying my life, because there is a lot more to life than just working.
[00:30:03]  And I think we have this kind of attitude where, you know, we expect people to basically kind of suffer as a form of virtue.
[00:30:11]  And that that's like, you know, the best thing to do is to work as hard as possible and to not take time off.
[00:30:17]  But actually, yeah, I think, you know, there is so much more to life than work.
[00:30:20]  And these people are clearly enjoying their lives, as I have been, as you can hear.
[00:30:24]  Yeah, we can.
[00:30:25]  We can tell.
[00:30:25]  We can hear from that.
[00:30:26]  And, you know, I say it's aspirational to have a lazy girl job, but of course, I've worked my socks off to get right here.
[00:30:33]  And I do also follow the economy and business quite closely.
[00:30:36]  Understand that, you know, we need jobs to turn the economy around.
[00:30:39]  So I am being slightly trite.
[00:30:41]  And on that, I want to bring in Shark Tank star and businessman Kevin O'Leary.
[00:30:45]  Kevin, the lazy girl job phenomenon.
[00:30:49]  Haven't they just found a really smart way to hack the system?
[00:30:54]  You know, we've seen this movie before.
[00:30:56]  It was called Quiet Quitting only 18 months ago.
[00:30:59]  And it was multi-gender at that time.
[00:31:01]  It wasn't just lazy girls, it was everybody.
[00:31:04]  And the economy was coming through a worldwide pandemic and new work models were emerging.
[00:31:10]  And so we deal with this every day.
[00:31:12]  I've got portfolio companies, 34 different companies.
[00:31:16]  40% of our employees have not returned to work, primarily in areas such as accounting, logistics, and compliance.
[00:31:24]  And now social media support.
[00:31:28]  We have virtually no one in that category that works out of an office.
[00:31:32]  They work from all around the world.
[00:31:33]  But here's the point I want to make.
[00:31:35]  Whether you're a lazy girl or you're a quiet quitter, doesn't matter because you either perform your task on a project basis.
[00:31:44]  In other words, if you're releasing your quarterly financial statements next Thursday at 12 noon and you're the head of finance and you're working remotely from another country, nobody cares how you get it done or what time you do it in.
[00:31:57]  It's just that do you release the statements on time for compliance?
[00:32:02]  And so the whole world is watching this happen.
[00:32:04]  And so are young and old people and saying, wait a second, for my job, I don't need to sit in a cubicle.
[00:32:10]  I'm going to be a lazy girl.
[00:32:11]  I'm going to be a quiet quitter, but I'm going to get my job done and I'm going to get paid.
[00:32:15]  And so I'm paying plenty of people more than $80,000 a year or euros in the case of my employees in Europe or pounds, you know, or any of the European countries or Asian countries or Middle East countries that they work with us.
[00:32:29]  And they're making lots of money, but they're getting it done on a project basis.
[00:32:33]  So I wouldn't be too concerned about this.
[00:32:35]  Now, if you're just lazy and you can't get anything done, I'm going to fire your ass.
[00:32:40]  And I do that all the time.
[00:32:42]  Look, great, surely.
[00:32:44]  I mean, that's fair.
[00:32:44]  Someone's not performing their work and they're boasting about being lazy.
[00:32:49]  They're filming TikToks at work about how lazy they are.
[00:32:51]  Don't they deserve to be fired?
[00:32:53]  Look, I don't actually disagree with a lot of what we've just heard because as long as you are getting your tasks done on a project basis, that's what we should care about.
[00:33:01]  We have a big problem actually in the economy of low productivity.
[00:33:04]  So that's people often actually being employed for long periods of time and often not doing very much or not adding very much value because they were forced to sit in an office where, you know, they weren't necessarily contributing a lot.
[00:33:16]  They were just sitting, you know, doing small tasks and trying to fill up the day.
[00:33:20]  Whereas actually as we move towards home working, where people perhaps have more control over their time, you get the combination of potentially higher productivity because they're doing more and less time and a better work-life balance, which means they're kind of happier, having, you know, a better time in general, less stress, and probably actually doing more when they are working.
[00:33:39]  And of course, everyone has lived through a pandemic and is living with the outcomes of this war that is currently still going on.
[00:33:47]  So Kevin, I mean, you talked about the hybrid work model we've arrived at.
[00:33:51]  Does it give you empathy for the average worker, especially when we look at the younger generations, the Gen Zs and millennials?
[00:33:58]  Do you adjust your kind of bossing, if you like, for younger generations?
[00:34:03]  Well, we accommodate, you know, and I'm dealing with all these CEOs and we have this narrative every Tuesday.
[00:34:09]  We talk to our companies saying, look, first of all, we're really surprised that 40% didn't return.
[00:34:13]  We thought it would be 15%.
[00:34:14]  That was the first shockwave we dealt with.
[00:34:17]  And now we have to deal with things like reducing our footprint in office spaces or retail outlets.
[00:34:23]  So a lot of change going on in the economy.
[00:34:25]  And yet, one of the reasons you're seeing markets like the SP 500 in the US, the largest market in the world, hit new highs is there's a tremendous amount of productivity enhancement using technology through remote work.
[00:34:37]  And the other thing that changed, and this is what people are just starting to figure out, even giant companies like Nike, 50% of our sales now go direct to consumer, where the margins are much higher.
[00:34:49]  And social media and the data about the consumer is far more valuable than ever before.
[00:34:56]  So data is the new oil and it's come through this new version of the global economy that I call digital version 2.0.
[00:35:04]  And margins are much higher, profits are higher, cash flows are higher.
[00:35:07]  So we can accommodate a lot of different work habits as long as they get the job done.
[00:35:14]  When they do it, I couldn't give a beep, doesn't matter to me.
[00:35:19]  And if they're doing it a 24-hour cycle somewhere in Asia, or we're talking to them in Dubai or in Abu Dhabi, we don't care.
[00:35:26]  And what we've learned in every other company straight to the south, this makes us far more competitive.
[00:35:31]  I can hire the best talent regardless where they are.
[00:35:34]  They could be in the Ukraine and be a great engineer.
[00:35:38]  We don't care as long as they get it done.
[00:35:40]  And I think this is very good for the globe.
[00:35:42]  So yes, we have lots of fun on TikTok calling it lazy girl or quiet quitters.
[00:35:47]  Nobody cares about that.
[00:35:48]  It's how productive can you be?
[00:35:49]  You'll make a lot of money.
[00:35:51]  working wherever you are, whenever you want, as long as you get it done.
[00:35:54]  And I think what's interesting about that as well is that even when you're not working, if you're on social media, you are actually producing value because you're producing data, you're producing things that can be kind of, you know, analyzed by social media companies about your habits online that can produce value.
[00:36:11]  And I think that speaks to this wider trend of actually the line between life and work becoming less clear.
[00:36:18]  But not creating value for the boss that directly employs you.
[00:36:21]  Look, Grace, before we run out of time, I just want to talk about the idea that this is lazy girl because it just seems to be that it's girls that are making these videos for, you know, to entertain themselves.
[00:36:31]  I don't think it's necessarily relegated just to girls.
[00:36:33]  As Kevin said, it's quiet quitting.
[00:36:35]  But does this not hark to the idea that women are kind of taking ownership in the workplace?
[00:36:39]  They sort of think, I deserve a break at this point.
[00:36:42]  I think a lot of it is to do with the idea of branding yourself a lazy girl is potentially easier than a lazy guy because there's lots of kind of stereotypes around masculinity which suggest you have to be going out there working hard, producing for your family, kind of really suffering in order to basically survive and be a good man.
[00:37:00]  So I think women, this is kind of like a bit of a, it's a bit of a joke, really, isn't it?
[00:37:04]  It's saying like, oh, well, we don't care so much about that sort of thing.
[00:37:07]  We're actually not into the idea of suffering in order to create value for someone else.
[00:37:12]  We believe that, you know, we are in control of our lives and want to be able to have fun, basically.
[00:37:16]  Kevin, is that fair?
[00:37:18]  We can have lazy girls, but not lazy guys.
[00:37:21]  Girls just want to have fun.
[00:37:23]  Everybody knows that.
[00:37:24]  You know, I look at it and say most of my operating positions in my overall holding company are women.
[00:37:31]  So they live their lives in this new arena the same way men do, except they're incredibly productive, which is why I hire them.
[00:37:39]  You know, there's an old saying that I would bring up here.
[00:37:42]  You want something done, give it to a busy mother.
[00:37:45]  They're very good at juggling their day.
[00:37:49]  And one of the reasons I support women entrepreneurs is so many of my companies are run by women and my operating positions are women because they get it done whenever they have to.
[00:37:58]  And these days, I don't care what time of the day that is.
[00:38:02]  Wonderful.
[00:38:03]  Look, Kevin, Grace, thanks so much joining us on the lazy girl debate.

=== Amanda Holden vs Andrew Tate (03:31) ===

[00:38:07]  Uncensored next tonight, Andrew Tate takes on Amanda Holden.
[00:38:11]  He heard that correctly.
[00:38:12]  The controversial social media star is accused of mum shaming, talking of mums, Amanda Holden over photos of her in a bikini.
[00:38:19]  That is coming up next.
[00:38:37]  Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored Me Rosanna Lockwood in the chair tonight.
[00:38:41]  I'm joined by the PAC in the studio, the Monday Night Pack, associate editor of The Mirror, Kevin Maguire, talk TV contributor Esther Kraku and socialist and author Grace Blakely rejoins us all of you.
[00:38:53]  It's been an interesting show so far.
[00:38:55]  I think it's fair to say.
[00:38:56]  Women have been in charge.
[00:38:58]  And even Kevin O'Leary was a pussycat, Grace.
[00:39:01]  I know.
[00:39:01]  I was so surprised.
[00:39:02]  I was really ready to have a fight with my voice completely gone, but I didn't need to.
[00:39:07]  Look, let's stay on topics regarding women and men, shall we?
[00:39:11]  Because we talked to you about this before the break.
[00:39:13]  Andrew Tate, that very controversial male, has made comments about Amanda Holden, the much-loved celebrity who has posed in a bikini, posted these photos of herself on holiday.
[00:39:25]  She's 52 years old.
[00:39:26]  I'm going to say she looks absolutely incredible.
[00:39:29]  If she wants to post a photo of herself in a bikini, and I'm not even going to say if her husband approves because who cares about that?
[00:39:34]  But if she wants to do it, that's what she's chosen to do.
[00:39:37]  Andrew Tate tweeted a reply to that saying, quote, you are a wife and a mother and you are far past a teenager.
[00:39:44]  There is no need for this post.
[00:39:48]  I would argue there is no need for that comment.
[00:39:51]  But of course, it's Andrew Tate we're talking about here.
[00:39:54]  Kevin, no surprises.
[00:39:55]  No, well, look, Amanda Holden can go on holiday and post a photograph.
[00:39:59]  He's under house arrest and go on going on holiday.
[00:40:01]  Maybe he's just jealous, isn't he?
[00:40:04]  He's a vile, horrible black.
[00:40:05]  I didn't actually think about that, actually.
[00:40:07]  He's vile and horrible.
[00:40:08]  And there we are.
[00:40:09]  If you post a picture of yourself, you're going to get some comments flat coming back.
[00:40:13]  But of course, he is just vile.
[00:40:16]  He's just a misogynist.
[00:40:17]  That's it.
[00:40:18]  Like, I think Amanda's problem is just...
[00:40:21]  She does look great, but she also has...
[00:40:24]  How do I put this nicely?
[00:40:25]  She's thought of more placid than Tupperware.
[00:40:27]  That being said, that being said, when you post pictures like that of yourself online, you will get comments.
[00:40:35]  It's the truth.
[00:40:36]  Now, I have no problem with her posting that because, again, she looks better than I do, arguably.
[00:40:40]  Her body is, she's far more displayed with her diet and physically.
[00:40:43]  But listen, this is part of the course.
[00:40:45]  I think she should be concerned about being able to move part of her face than part of a very tight talk.
[00:40:50]  No shame in the surgeon.
[00:40:51]  No shame, but no shame.
[00:40:53]  Listen, I've said it's literally like, I feel like I'm not.
[00:40:57]  The goal is not to look crazy.
[00:40:58]  I have no problem with enhancing, tucking, nipping.
[00:41:03]  You don't want to look crazy.
[00:41:04]  When you can't move your face, you look crazy.
[00:41:06]  So that's what I'll say there.
[00:41:07]  But look, her body looks fantastic.
[00:41:09]  I mean, she looks great.
[00:41:10]  Like, whether it's like her body, yeah, neck down, yeah.
[00:41:13]  She looks great.
[00:41:14]  And I'll say, I agree.
[00:41:15]  Andrew Tate is an awful man.
[00:41:17]  And we shouldn't really be, you know, women get a lot of comments about their physical appearance.
[00:41:24]  And that's often why they feel the need and the pressure to go onto the knife to have these procedures in order to look and feel young and feel accepted.
[00:41:30]  I think if there's people going out there and sharing pictures of their body with all of their flaws and everything out to see, we should be encouraging that.
[00:41:36]  And yeah, of course, you're going to get negative comments because some people are already in the world.

=== Euthanasia and Legal Thresholds (05:19) ===

[00:41:39]  No, I don't think we should respond.
[00:41:40]  Supporting one another.
[00:41:42]  I don't think the response to insecurity would be to seek validation online.
[00:41:46]  I understand that there is pressure for women to look a certain way, but I do think it's a testament to.
[00:41:50]  Well, it's about interaction, isn't it?
[00:41:51]  It's about your relationship with yourself.
[00:41:53]  You shouldn't value strangers' comments on that.
[00:41:56]  That shouldn't be a barometer for you.
[00:41:57]  No, but we should be able to say, like, look, here's an example of a woman showing her body in a way that is proud and like she's happy with it.
[00:42:04]  And like, we should be happy for her before she's negative comments.
[00:42:08]  As the talk and blockchain, I just say the man under house arrest doesn't speak for the majority.
[00:42:14]  Thank you.
[00:42:17]  Wait, you're not under house arrest.
[00:42:18]  No, no, I'm free.
[00:42:20]  Mr. Tate can't.
[00:42:21]  Let's turn the considerable brains in this studio to matters a little bit more serious than just talking about bodies.
[00:42:27]  We could talk about body parts all day, I know.
[00:42:29]  But let's talk about another story that headlined a lot of the newspapers today.
[00:42:33]  It's regarding this British man, David Hunter.
[00:42:36]  He was freed in Cyprus after being sentenced for manslaughter.
[00:42:39]  He killed his wife, 76 years old.
[00:42:43]  He had already spent 19 months in custody.
[00:42:45]  It's an absolutely tragic story, this.
[00:42:47]  His wife, Janice Hunter, 74, died of asphyxiation at their retirement home in Cyprus back in December 2021.
[00:42:53]  Now, he wasn't sentenced on murder, so no premeditation is what the court decided.
[00:42:58]  And they decided to release him basically on compassionate grounds here.
[00:43:02]  The judge in Cyprus actually talking about the fact that love played such a huge part in this.
[00:43:07]  Janice had a rare type of blood cancer and was in a lot of pain.
[00:43:11]  And it obviously brings to mind this complicated debate about euthanasia.
[00:43:16]  Cyprus will remind ourselves as a Greek Orthodox country, which makes this incredibly tough to consider and very different from the considerations we have here in the UK.
[00:43:23]  But Kevin, I mean, do you think this will reignite debates about assisted dying?
[00:43:28]  Because in Europe, it is allowed in some countries.
[00:43:31]  It is.
[00:43:31]  It's not allowed in the UK.
[00:43:32]  It certainly isn't in Cyprus, which is socially conservative.
[00:43:35]  I think it's a debate we do need because you sometimes condemn people to live and they want to end their life.
[00:43:42]  And certainly in the UK, if you've got the money and the organisation, you can go to Switzerland and dignitas.
[00:43:47]  You're okay.
[00:43:48]  Your family won't be prosecuted for taking you out and bringing you back.
[00:43:51]  In fact, a friend of mine went and ended her life because she didn't want the grisly end with MS that was ahead of her.
[00:43:58]  And those who returned, who had taken her there, there was no action taken against him.
[00:44:03]  But I think we've just got to address it.
[00:44:05]  Because if you love somebody and they're asking you to help them end their suffering and their agony, it must be an awful dilemma.
[00:44:14]  Absolutely.
[00:44:15]  But you will want to help them and you will want to carry out their wishes.
[00:44:18]  I think the thing is, we do have this conversation regularly in the UK about euthanasia, which I think is a good thing.
[00:44:23]  Obviously, you don't want the extreme of what's going on in Canada, for instance, where you could argue that people are being given euthanasia as an option too easily.
[00:44:30]  I think the issue here is, obviously, the court has decided that it wasn't murder, premeditated murder, it was manslaughter.
[00:44:37]  But when you're talking about it in the context of euthanasia, the issue is when you ask to die for assisted suicide, in countries that allow this, there is a threshold you must meet to be sure that you're of sound mind.
[00:44:49]  Now, obviously, the person that would testify to this, I don't know if she left a letter or anything like that, is not alive to be assessed by someone other than the person who's trying to get off this charge of murder.
[00:44:59]  So I think that's the issue here, is the fact that he said, obviously, she wanted it, but it's not just the fact that she wanted it.
[00:45:06]  Has it been ascertained that she was of sound mind to say that she wanted it?
[00:45:09]  This is why this often happens with things that people need or want, which are made illegal.
[00:45:15]  It's the boundary between something that's regulated and accessible versus something that's illegal becomes the problem.
[00:45:22]  Because if you had a system in which there was assisted dying that was regulated, that you were made sure that, for example, people weren't being put under pressure by their families for inheritance or under pressure by medical associations or mental faculties.
[00:45:36]  Exactly.
[00:45:36]  It's really difficult.
[00:45:38]  You have a system which is regulated.
[00:45:40]  If you just basically say people are allowed to kill people when they are asked to do so, that's obviously not a feasible framework.
[00:45:48]  When my dad was on the way out, I wished we could have helped him three months out.
[00:45:53]  If it had been a dog or a cat, we wouldn't have allowed him to suffer the way he had to.
[00:45:57]  Yeah, but a dog or a cat fundamentally holds different value to a human being.
[00:46:01]  Like a human life is more valuable than a chicken.
[00:46:04]  Fundamentally.
[00:46:04]  But that is why we shouldn't have allowed him to suffer.
[00:46:06]  Well, yeah, I understand that.
[00:46:08]  I think in this particular case, it's more of just the fact that the person who would testify to her own sound mind is no longer here.
[00:46:14]  And there's a vested interest for this man to not be able to do that.
[00:46:16]  It's a capacity to choose, Grace, you brought up.
[00:46:18]  Is it a hallmark of civilized society?
[00:46:20]  I'm not saying that the countries that don't have this in place are not civilized, but is it a debate that should be had?
[00:46:25]  I think it is because, yeah, I mean, what is the difference between a cat and a dog and a person?
[00:46:29]  Like, we have decision-making capabilities and, you know, a conscious understanding of our own suffering, not just the suffering itself, but the fact that we are likely to continue to experience it, which is what often makes things so terrible for people.
[00:46:42]  We brought that back to a vaguely serious conversation.
[00:46:45]  I'm very impressed, Grace, Esther, Kevin.
[00:46:47]  Thank you very much for joining me in the studio tonight, the Monday night panel.
[00:46:50]  That is it from me for today.
[00:46:52]  Whatever you're up to, make sure it's uncensored.
[00:46:54]  I'll see you back in this chair tomorrow night.
[00:46:57]  Good night.
[00:46:57]  Have a good one.