Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20230626_piers-morgan-uncensored-downfall-of-putin-titan-su
Aired: 2023-06-26
Duration: 46:59


=== Putin's Hardline Successors (14:40) ===

[00:00:00]  I'm Piers Morgan uncensored tonight.
[00:00:02]  24 hours rocked Russia and could still change the world.
[00:00:06]  Are we witnessing the beginning of the downfall of the world's deadliest dictator?
[00:00:10]  And can Ukraine turn Putin's chaos into victory?
[00:00:14]  Also tonight calls to ban adventure expeditions to the Titanic after the Titan sub disaster claimed five lives.
[00:00:21]  Should explorers have the right to tour the ruins?
[00:00:24]  We'll debate that with a descendant of victims of the original Titanic voyage.
[00:00:29]  Basarot and John is held for his show-stopping final show at Glastonbury Festival.
[00:00:33]  Do real rock stars need an auto-cue to read their own songs?
[00:00:37]  We'll debate that.
[00:00:44]  Live from the news building in London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
[00:00:51]  Good evening from London.
[00:00:51]  Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
[00:00:53]  For years we've been told that Vladimir Putin is a tactical grandmaster with an iron grip on power, an unshakable truth in a world of uncertainties who can outfox the West and crush dissent at home all before judo at tea time.
[00:01:06]  But the world is changing before our eyes and so is his.
[00:01:09]  That illusion has now been shattered.
[00:01:11]  Putin's world could literally be falling apart.
[00:01:15]  This weekend a column of rebel soldiers came within 200 kilometers of Moscow.
[00:01:19]  They shot down Russian helicopters in a plane, forced the military to destroy an oil depot, then seized control of a Russian military headquarters.
[00:01:27]  Those soldiers weren't part of some Western plot.
[00:01:30]  They were Russians, part of the mercenary Wagner army led by Evgeny Prigozin, who launched the biggest assault on Putin's power that he's ever experienced.
[00:01:39]  And Russia's dictator, normally so careful to manage the propaganda on state television, was seriously rattled.
[00:01:47]  All those who deliberately went on the path of treason for preparing an armed rebellion for preparing terrorist attacks will be punished inevitably.
[00:01:58]  But that didn't happen.
[00:02:00]  The Wagner rebels met little if any resistance.
[00:02:02]  In some places, they were even cheered and celebrated by other Russians.
[00:02:07]  A panicked President Putin lined Moscow streets with troops and dug up roads to the capital so that the city's residents were told to stay indoors and work on Monday cancel.
[00:02:16]  And when Prigozin, the mad chef, agreed his deal to stand down the rebellion, he was even cheered and fist-bumped as he drove away.
[00:02:24]  We don't know yet why he made that deal or what it all really means or whether he'll survive the fallout himself, exiled apparently in Belarus.
[00:02:32]  What we do know is that Russian troops were killed and military hardware destroyed on Russia's own soil by a renegade Russian militia.
[00:02:41]  And they've all so far been released without any punishment at all.
[00:02:45]  In fact, Prigozhin today's popped up with a self-aggrandizing audio message claiming he showed Putin how it's done.
[00:02:52]  За сутки не дошли всего 200 километров до Москвы, зашли и полностью взяли под контроль город Ростов.
[00:03:02]  Мирные жители были рады нас видеть.
[00:03:06]  Мы показали мастер-класс, каким образом должно было выглядеть 24 февраля 22 года.
[00:03:14]  Putin, on the other hand, today failed to even mention the failed coup in his first statement since the country sat on the brink of a civil conflict.
[00:03:21]  Before the war in Ukraine, that would have been unthinkable.
[00:03:24]  Before this weekend, it would also have been unthinkable.
[00:03:27]  Now it seems clear that Putin's demented quest to build an empire by invading and destroying his neighbours threatens his own very survival.
[00:03:34]  This was a plot from within.
[00:03:36]  These people know where he sleeps and where he hides.
[00:03:39]  His own people saw him humiliated and exposed.
[00:03:42]  Putin's iron grip has just turned, well, to jelly.
[00:03:46]  The question now is can he cling on?
[00:03:49]  Well, joining me now as former world chess champion and chairman of the Renewed Democracy Initiative, Gary Kasparov, Ukrainian ambassador to the UK, Vardim Prysika, former head of the British Army, Lord Danett, plus Russia-born author and podcaster Konstantin Kissin.
[00:04:05]  Okay, well, a great panel, first of all.
[00:04:08]  Gary Kasparov, let me stop.
[00:04:09]  Thank you for being in the studio.
[00:04:10]  I greatly appreciate it.
[00:04:12]  What's going on?
[00:04:15]  You're a chess grandmaster.
[00:04:17]  Can you work out what's at play here?
[00:04:19]  Look, as a chess grandmaster, I'm used to analyze facts.
[00:04:21]  And I believe what we saw was a tip on iceberg.
[00:04:24]  There's so much still underwater.
[00:04:26]  I don't think Pregozhin acted alone.
[00:04:28]  I think that was a much bigger challenge to Putin's power by those in Russia, mostly GRU or KGB, who were not happy with the war on Ukraine.
[00:04:37]  Don't forget, Russia is a mafia state.
[00:04:39]  And there's so much money at stake.
[00:04:41]  And Putin basically is a liability for those who have been doing this business with hundreds of billions of dollars.
[00:04:47]  Maybe we should look for answers for Pregorgian's operation in Africa.
[00:04:50]  I mean, we don't know enough, but what we know is that Putin's regime looked at the facing first real challenge as a Hollywood declaration.
[00:05:00]  Just big declarations, nothing behind it.
[00:05:03]  So Putin made a big statement.
[00:05:04]  You showed the statement, 9 a.m.
[00:05:07]  It's in the morning.
[00:05:09]  Who followed his orders?
[00:05:10]  Nobody.
[00:05:11]  What was the government?
[00:05:13]  Nowhere to be seen.
[00:05:14]  Parliament, Senate, a Minister of Interior, Minister of Defense.
[00:05:18]  They're all gone.
[00:05:19]  So it's just, you know, it's a colossal assault on clay feet.
[00:05:23]  And I think what we saw was just the first act of the drama.
[00:05:27]  I would not trust the stories about these deals because, again, I think there's so much behind the scene.
[00:05:33]  And it was all about, I believe, commercial interests.
[00:05:36]  But what is important is the way Pregozhan troops were received by Russians.
[00:05:40]  I think it's more about corruption because the name of the Pregozhians operation was March for Justice.
[00:05:47]  And I think that the people instinctively demonstrated that this corruption regime, that's Putin's regime, has no support, as it claimed.
[00:05:58]  The whole story of Putin was popular has been just destroyed by the march, which stopped for no clear reasons.
[00:06:05]  Pregozin could have taken Moscow in the next 12 hours.
[00:06:08]  But none of it really makes a lot of sense.
[00:06:10]  General Daniel, we've just been told the Russian state media reporting that Vladimir Putin will make a series of important announcements this evening.
[00:06:17]  That'll be his first appearance since denouncing the Wagner mutiny.
[00:06:22]  What's he going to say?
[00:06:23]  What do you think is going on here?
[00:06:25]  Well, it'd be interesting to see what he's going to say, because on Saturday morning, he had a lot of words, but he didn't have much substance at all and looked like a man pretty much caught in the headlights.
[00:06:35]  So unless he's reinvented himself something clever, I think we're going to see more of the same.
[00:06:41]  I think, whichever way you look at it, he is now a weakened man.
[00:06:45]  And what Pregozin's extraordinary sort of march for justice towards Moscow showed was that Putin's got very little support.
[00:06:53]  Where was his army?
[00:06:55]  An army in an arms mutiny situation like, where were they?
[00:06:58]  Can do one of two things.
[00:06:59]  It can oppose the mutineers or it can do nothing.
[00:07:02]  They chose to do nothing.
[00:07:03]  And this actually speaks volumes.
[00:07:05]  Even the FS.
[00:07:06]  Is it the beginning of the end of Putin?
[00:07:08]  Historically with Russia, when this thing happens, this kind of march, if you like, or assault on whoever's running the country, tends to be the end pretty quickly.
[00:07:20]  I think it's very much related also to what is going on in the battlefield in eastern Ukraine.
[00:07:25]  And I think that's an extraordinary set of circumstances.
[00:07:29]  The counter-offensive, which has been talked about for a long time, well equipped, well-trained, well-prepared.
[00:07:35]  A lot of preliminary operations have been going on.
[00:07:38]  There will come a point at a point in time and space, I don't know where or when, when the Ukrainian forces feel they found some weak spots, and that's when they'll press with their attack brigades, and then anything could happen.
[00:07:50]  How diminished militarily are the Russians in Ukraine right now without the Wagner group?
[00:07:56]  Well, they are diminished because there's 25,000 or so fighters that were fighting.
[00:08:01]  They were fighting side by side with them in Bakhmud until they've withdrawn.
[00:08:05]  So numerically, the Russians are weaker.
[00:08:08]  Also, the senior commander control from General Garazimov down, that's now got question marks over it.
[00:08:15]  How much authority can he actually deploy?
[00:08:19]  And then, of course, you come to the Russian soldiers themselves.
[00:08:21]  Most of them don't really want to be there, right?
[00:08:23]  They're poorly equipped, poorly trained, very poorly led at low level.
[00:08:27]  Yes, they've got wonderful defensive positions, but if they can, if those defensive positions can be cracked into, then frankly, anything could happen.
[00:08:35]  Literally anything.
[00:08:36]  We don't want to get too overly optimistic.
[00:08:38]  And lives are involved here.
[00:08:39]  Ukrainian lives are involved here.
[00:08:41]  Well, that's quite possible.
[00:08:42]  They could break through and be very successful.
[00:08:44]  Yes, I agree.
[00:08:45]  Ambassador Bristako, I mean, I can't even imagine what your weekend was like.
[00:08:49]  I was gripped to this, literally watching cable news the entire weekend.
[00:08:54]  What were you doing?
[00:08:56]  Same.
[00:08:57]  I was wasting two days on my time on weekend, quite rare thing, just to understand what is actually happening, how it can influence what is happening in our party.
[00:09:05]  Well, I can tell you that for us, both of them, either Prigozhin or Putin, both of them are enemies.
[00:09:11]  We understand that when they're fighting, it will ease a situation in our case, at least these 25,000 people, or six more helicopters will now appear in Ukrainian skies.
[00:09:23]  So that's what we were hoping.
[00:09:25]  What was interesting also, it was not very well reflected that what Prigozhin said before starting.
[00:09:31]  He went and making...
[00:09:32]  I'm just interrupting you, Ambassador, one moment.
[00:09:34]  We now have live pictures of Vladimir Putin.
[00:09:38]  He's not actually talking yet.
[00:09:39]  We're going to keep an eye on this.
[00:09:40]  This will be an interesting statement.
[00:09:43]  It's come, actually, the press service for the Belarusian president, Alexander Lukashenko, has written on Telegram a lot of questions, stuffing, versions, and assumptions.
[00:09:54]  The first one will tell everything, answer everything very soon, follow the agenda.
[00:10:00]  Again, some cryptic messaging coming out of Belarus there.
[00:10:04]  What do you make of that?
[00:10:06]  I hope that we'll talk now about the Minister of Defense or Chief of Defense.
[00:10:10]  And if it is the part of the agreement with Prigozhin, remember, he went to Moscow saying that he is going to undermine the particular two individuals, not the Putin himself.
[00:10:20]  So he was leaving sort of flexibility here.
[00:10:23]  But having Lukashenko in picture, they can talk now about the even sort of deeper reunification between Belarus and Russia.
[00:10:31]  They might tell...
[00:10:32]  It's so volatile.
[00:10:35]  Of course, on the face of it, my first thought was this looks good for Ukraine.
[00:10:39]  That just as you're launching a counter-offensive, you have the Russians in total chaos.
[00:10:45]  Of course, knowing the character of Putin, it could be the reverse.
[00:10:49]  He might decide to double down in Ukraine, to go even harder, more aggressively.
[00:10:54]  That's a potential, right?
[00:10:55]  I agree.
[00:10:56]  I agree with Gary that there are some circles in Russia which will be more interested.
[00:11:01]  Some of them are not happy with what is happening.
[00:11:03]  It doesn't mean that it won't go and escalate even higher.
[00:11:06]  And the oligarchs, nothing can be done in Russia without oligarchy consent.
[00:11:10]  So what they want, whether they want to get rid of sanctions or they wanted to finish it up right now, right away.
[00:11:16]  So let's escalate, let's finish it up, whatever the consequences.
[00:11:19]  Let me bring in Konstantin Kissing.
[00:11:21]  Konstantin, you've been tweeting away about this the last three days.
[00:11:25]  Fascinating actually to get your take on this.
[00:11:28]  How are you seeing things as we're watching Vladimir Putin about to make some address?
[00:11:33]  We have no idea what he's going to say, but what's your take on it?
[00:11:36]  Well, some very good points have been made so far.
[00:11:39]  The one thing I would add is I think people haven't emphasized enough the fact that anybody who's going to attempt to replace Vladimir Putin is likely to be more nationalistic and more hardline than him at the moment.
[00:11:51]  As you know, over the last quarter of a century, Vladimir Putin has removed everybody who's attempted to challenge him from a more liberal or more democratic position.
[00:12:00]  One of those men is sitting to your left, Garrick Hasprov, of course.
[00:12:05]  And so what I think people forgot in the West is there's no Nick Clegg waiting in the wings to take over.
[00:12:11]  This is a very serious situation.
[00:12:12]  This is a nuclear nation with the potential for civil war.
[00:12:15]  So I wouldn't get too excited about it, even though, of course, we would all want to see Russia less powerful in its terrible invasion of Ukraine.
[00:12:23]  So I think that's one of the things to add.
[00:12:25]  And the thing that is happening right now on our screens is Vladimir Putin giving a statement.
[00:12:29]  I imagine we will see him attempting to reassert authority because what we have seen over the last many days is that his authority is certainly in question.
[00:12:38]  Yeah, I'm not sure.
[00:12:39]  Gary, you've been shaking your head there.
[00:12:40]  So come.
[00:12:41]  It's absolute nonsense.
[00:12:42]  I mean, it's a total misunderstanding of the nature of any dictatorship.
[00:12:45]  After 23 years, Putin is a spine of the system.
[00:12:48]  You cannot take spine away and put someone in the place.
[00:12:51]  Whoever comes after Putin will start negotiating with Americans, with Ukrainians.
[00:12:56]  There's no doubt about it.
[00:12:57]  That's what happened after Stalin's death.
[00:12:59]  So you cannot have another dictator replacing Putin because he's the center of decision-making process.
[00:13:04]  And now it seems that he's no longer capable of TikAppi.
[00:13:06]  He's not the final referee in all these negotiations between various groups.
[00:13:11]  So that's why it's like, you know, saying, oh, Stauffenberg also brought some questionable people with him.
[00:13:16]  And after Hitler, we could have somebody worse.
[00:13:18]  No, absolutely not.
[00:13:19]  But if you take your mafia analogy, for argument's sake, in the mafia, if the head boss got taken out, they would replace him with often somebody even worse.
[00:13:29]  It takes time before you have somebody else, they have to negotiate.
[00:13:33]  It's more like a polit, which is always better because they have to negotiate.
[00:13:37]  What do you really think in your bones is going to happen here, Gary?
[00:13:40]  Oh, I think it's a growing opposition to Putin because he's losing the war.
[00:13:46]  There's a huge commercial interest that is not interested to continue unwinnable war.
[00:13:52]  They know this war cannot be won.
[00:13:53]  And again, what will be the outcome of this fight?
[00:13:56]  I don't know.
[00:13:57]  But I don't think Putin will stay for too long because if Russian history is any guide, the bad wars always led to the change of the regime.
[00:14:04]  Ambassador, what does victory look like here?
[00:14:08]  Is there any potential, as some people have called, for Ukraine to cede any of the territory that the Russians have taken?
[00:14:14]  Or is your position still implacable?
[00:14:17]  You do not give them an inch?
[00:14:19]  That is a position that we are not going to give an inch to anybody.
[00:14:23]  And Russia is the first.
[00:14:25]  And second, I'd like to see...
[00:14:26]  But what about Crimea, for example, which was taken years ago?
[00:14:28]  Crimea as well.
[00:14:29]  You'd like to see that.
[00:14:31]  I'd like myself to be able to do that.
[00:14:32]  That's true.
[00:14:33]  And by the way, we already started to liberate some of the places which were under occupation since 2014, not just recently acquired lands.

=== Wagner Betrayal and Chaos (05:26) ===

[00:14:40]  So that's what we are already doing.
[00:14:42]  So do you feel total victory is now very achievable?
[00:14:45]  In fact, potentially a lot more achievable than it looked last week.
[00:14:49]  Much better now, that's true.
[00:14:50]  This jar with the spiders in it, you know, who will get out of it will be wounded and will be weakened.
[00:14:56]  I totally agree.
[00:14:56]  And if you want to talk about the analogy, historical analogies, if you remember when Gerbachev got back after the coup, it only took four months until the whole system collapsed afterward.
[00:15:07]  We've got some quotes now from Putin tonight.
[00:15:10]  General Dannett, I'll bring this to you.
[00:15:12]  The organizers of this rebellion, he says, cannot but understand that it will be brought to justice.
[00:15:16]  Everyone understands this.
[00:15:18]  That is criminality that is aimed at weakening the country.
[00:15:21]  From outside, we are threatened.
[00:15:22]  However, the organizers of this rebellion have betrayed those people who were bribed into this organization.
[00:15:27]  So he's saying, apparently, also that society has consolidated.
[00:15:31]  There's not much evidence of that.
[00:15:32]  But he's suggesting from that, unless I'm misreading it, that the Wagner group have betrayed Russia and they have to be dealt with.
[00:15:39]  But there's no sign from the Wagner group that they're fearing that's going to happen.
[00:15:43]  Well, he said that on Saturday morning, that these people will be brought to justice.
[00:15:47]  By Saturday evening, he said that they would be allowed to go their way.
[00:15:50]  So he's now reverting to his first speech.
[00:15:54]  What do you believe?
[00:15:54]  What do you understand?
[00:15:55]  I mean, I think he's lashing out.
[00:15:59]  I think he's showing further signs of weakness by holding completely differing points of view.
[00:16:04]  Is he done, Putin, do you think?
[00:16:05]  I think he's done.
[00:16:06]  And go back to what I said before, I think when the Ukrainian army's counter-attack really gets going, then I think he will be completely done.
[00:16:14]  And I think the big point on the battlefield to remember is that if they do manage, if the Ukrainians manage to break in and break through, they haven't got to defeat the Russian army everywhere.
[00:16:24]  They've just got to make the average Russian soldier think he's lost.
[00:16:28]  And when an army thinks it's lost, it's lost.
[00:16:30]  And that's what they've got to try and achieve.
[00:16:32]  And they can do that.
[00:16:33]  Some more quotes here.
[00:16:34]  Konstantin, I'll bring you in here.
[00:16:36]  Putin, most of Wagner are also patriots.
[00:16:39]  He closed his speech by saying President Lukashenko, obviously the Belarusian president, should be thanked for his role in this to achieve a peaceful resolution.
[00:16:47]  It's a patriotic duty of everyone that has saved us.
[00:16:50]  Thank you.
[00:16:51]  So some kind of mixed messaging.
[00:16:53]  Although I guess what he's trying to say tonight is that the organizers are the culpable ones.
[00:17:00]  What does that mean, though?
[00:17:01]  What's he going to do?
[00:17:02]  Well, as I said, Zach predicted he was going to attempt to reassert authority.
[00:17:06]  But on the other hand, he doesn't want to make enemies of 25,000 of his most capable soldiers who are quite loyal to Evgeny Progozhin, as far as we know.
[00:17:16]  But I think there was a misunderstanding about the previous point that I made.
[00:17:19]  I wasn't suggesting that a coup would make Putin stronger.
[00:17:23]  What I was saying was that a lot of the resistance to the regime at the moment isn't actually focused on Vladimir Putin.
[00:17:30]  A lot of the criticism is of his defense minister, Shoiku, and the head of the armed forces, Girasimov.
[00:17:35]  And that, I think, is where this has all come from.
[00:17:38]  This conflict has been brewing for many months now with a war of words between Progozhin and the Ministry of Defense.
[00:17:44]  And so what I was saying, and I think this is important to say, the liberal democratic voices like Gary have been forced out of Russia.
[00:17:52]  And so much of the resistance to Vladimir Putin isn't people who want democracy and stability.
[00:17:58]  It's people who feel that the war is going badly, as he says, and they want someone to come in and take charge.
[00:18:04]  So it remains to be seen how this one actually plays out.
[00:18:07]  Yeah, apparently, I'm just reading some reports on Twitter here that apparently he said the uprising was doomed to fail.
[00:18:13]  And his organizers, even though they lost their sense of right and wrong, couldn't have failed to realize that.
[00:18:18]  He also seems to say that Ukraine was involved somehow and calls the revolt revenge for their failed counter-offensive.
[00:18:25]  He then ranted about Wagner's treason a bit more and then it cut out.
[00:18:28]  He didn't actually announce anything.
[00:18:30]  So someone on Twitter here.
[00:18:32]  Gary, what do you make of that?
[00:18:34]  Mad rantings?
[00:18:36]  Yes, it's just, I think he lost control.
[00:18:38]  And probably he feels that he can keep talking, but nothing is happening.
[00:18:45]  And what you just said now just doesn't make any sense.
[00:18:48]  No, none of it makes sense.
[00:18:49]  No.
[00:18:50]  Do you think he'll still be in charge in a month's time?
[00:18:53]  Months, maybe.
[00:18:54]  Definitely not within a year.
[00:18:56]  Probably, you know, three to six months.
[00:18:58]  Ambassador, what do you think?
[00:18:59]  It will be bloody, it will be dirty, but he's going down.
[00:19:03]  General?
[00:19:04]  And there might be a churn.
[00:19:05]  Someone might replace him, and then someone might replace that person.
[00:19:09]  I think the second replacement could be more favourable to the West.
[00:19:12]  And just a final point, General.
[00:19:13]  What message does all this send to China, who may have been considering attacking Taiwan?
[00:19:20]  Is this a marker in Massan that if you do this kind of thing as a dictatorship, that actually can backfire pretty horrendously?
[00:19:28]  The Chinese should think very carefully about taking on the world over Taiwan.
[00:19:33]  Actually, the Chinese are a patient people.
[00:19:35]  Just give it time.
[00:19:37]  They would be most unwise to take any lessons out of this.
[00:19:41]  If there is a lesson, actually, it's a coup such as such as Putin tried to mount on Kyiv 24th of February last year.
[00:19:48]  It did not work.
[00:19:50]  So just don't go there.
[00:19:51]  General, Ambassador, Grandmaster, great to see you all.
[00:19:54]  Thank you very much.
[00:19:55]  Great panel tonight.
[00:19:56]  Constantine, thank you as well for joining me.
[00:19:58]  Much appreciated.
[00:19:59]  A lot going on in Russia, a lot going on in Ukraine.
[00:20:02]  Going to be fascinating a few days and months to see how this all plays out.
[00:20:06]  Well, I'm sensitive next.

=== Titanic Tragedy Reflections (10:01) ===

[00:20:07]  Should the Titanic wreckage be left in peace after five people died in a catastrophic implosion of the Titan Sum as it tried to reach the shipwreck?
[00:20:15]  We'll debate whether extreme tourism, as it's dubbed, should now be banned.
[00:20:37]  Walking back to Piers, we're going to sensor.
[00:20:39]  The fallout from the Titan sub-tragedy continues to divide opinion.
[00:20:42]  With descendants of the Titanic tragedy in 1912, saying it's time to let the wreck rest in peace.
[00:20:48]  Others say all extreme adventure tourism like this, including deep dives and space exploration, needs far greater regulation to avoid disaster, but must continue.
[00:20:57]  Those on the other side of the debate, including Boris Johnson, argue that all goes against the spirit of adventure that inspires humanity to ever greater discoveries.
[00:21:05]  Would you want me to discuss this?
[00:21:06]  Is Titanic historian Shelley Binder, whose great-grandmother and great-uncle both survived the ship's sinking in 1912, and by the biologist and television host Jeff Galwin, who is currently filming fishing in shark-infested waters and is no stranger to adventure and exploration.
[00:21:22]  Well, thank you both for joining me.
[00:21:24]  Shelly Binder, first of all, tell me about your relatives who survived the Titanic sinking.
[00:21:34]  Right.
[00:21:35]  Well, thank you for having me, Pierce.
[00:21:37]  My great-grandmother was 18 years old and was bringing her 10-month-old baby, Frank Phillip, or Philly, baby Philly, to meet my great-granddad, who had come over in September of 1911 to emigrate to the United States.
[00:21:54]  And her parents said if she waited three months, they would agree to make up the cost of the ticket in order to send her over on the safest ship ever built.
[00:22:10]  And that's how she ended up on the Titanic.
[00:22:12]  Right, incredible.
[00:22:13]  And your great uncle was also on board.
[00:22:18]  Yes, he was 10 months old at the time.
[00:22:21]  Correct.
[00:22:22]  And they actually got separated in the sinking.
[00:22:28]  So just to clarify, sorry, the great uncle was, of course, your great-grandmother's child there.
[00:22:33]  Is that what you're saying?
[00:22:36]  Exactly, my grandmother's brother.
[00:22:38]  And what then happened to both of them?
[00:22:45]  Well, on the Carpathia, my great-grandmother was despondent and wouldn't get off of a mattress lying down.
[00:22:55]  And, you know, she thought her baby had been thrown overboard.
[00:22:59]  And finally, after a couple of days, it was quite stormy on the Carpathia.
[00:23:03]  It was a four-day journey back to New York.
[00:23:06]  After several days, they convinced her to go up when the weather broke to walk her on the deck, which she did.
[00:23:13]  And out of the corner of her eye, she saw a baby reaching his arms toward her.
[00:23:19]  Of course, he knew that was his mother because he was still breastfeeding.
[00:23:23]  And she said, that's my baby.
[00:23:25]  And the woman who was caring for him was an Italian lady who didn't speak much English.
[00:23:31]  So a crewman said, take both women and the baby up to Captain Rostron's cabin and he will decide the issue.
[00:23:41]  So Captain Rostron played King Solomon in deciding whose baby that was.
[00:23:47]  And as witness, bearing witness to this scene were the three ladies that Captain Rostron had staying in his cabin.
[00:23:55]  They were three ladies from first class from the Titanic who were all recent widows from the Titanic, Madeline Astor, Marion Thayer, and Mrs. Widener.
[00:24:08]  And so these three ladies were a witness to this Solomon moment that he had.
[00:24:13]  And of course, she identified some birthmarks that the baby had.
[00:24:18]  And so he gave the baby to her.
[00:24:21]  And Madeline Astor then said, oh, your baby looks cold and took off her scarf and wrapped it around my great uncle and gave her a $5 gold piece.
[00:24:32]  Amazing.
[00:24:33]  What an incredible story.
[00:24:34]  So then let's come full circle to what happened last week, the tragic events of the submersible.
[00:24:41]  What is your view about wealthy people paying $250,000 to go down to the wreck of the Titanic where your relatives had this miraculous survival?
[00:24:55]  I do send my condolences first and foremost to all five of the gentlemen who lost their lives on that submersible and to Ocean Gate who is suffering as well through this.
[00:25:14]  You know, I've talked to many of my Titanic historian friends and I've also spoken to other descendants of Titanic survivors and also descendants of people whose family members did not live.
[00:25:34]  And it's interesting to note that their opinions differ somewhat about whether extreme adventure tourism is applicable or appropriate in this situation.
[00:25:48]  And the people whose relatives died on this ship almost universally that I've spoken to think it's a terrible idea and are who seem genuinely offended by it that this was happening.
[00:26:04]  But it's interesting to note, and I'm sure you're aware of this fact, that Stockton Rush, the CEO of Ocean Gate, his wife, Wendy, is the great-great-granddaughter of Ida and Isidore Strauss, who both perished on the Titanic.
[00:26:21]  Amazing twist, yeah.
[00:26:23]  So that's an interesting coincidence.
[00:26:25]  Yeah, a very amazing twist.
[00:26:27]  So I'm assuming by that that she didn't have any problem with it.
[00:26:33]  I guess we don't know that.
[00:26:36]  Yeah, I mean, Jeff, it's a complicated one, isn't it?
[00:26:39]  Because it's had a lot of backlash.
[00:26:40]  I personally think, and I've said this pretty vocally the last week, that I think that what makes this world great are people doing extraordinary things like, you know, these kind of adventures, exploration, history seeking, and so on.
[00:26:55]  There are others who say it's just a ridiculous thing for very rich people to be abusing the ocean in this way.
[00:27:01]  Where do you sit with it?
[00:27:03]  Well, it's interesting, Pierce.
[00:27:05]  It's, you know, human beings, we are hardwired to be explorers.
[00:27:11]  All the incredible technological innovations that we have in our lives today, all the incredible discoveries have come from exploration, especially when it comes to the seas.
[00:27:22]  But I'm in my boat right now and I'm actually commercial fishing, taking a break to speak with you guys.
[00:27:29]  And I have a responsibility.
[00:27:31]  I have to follow the laws and the regulations of the sea, or I can be held accountable.
[00:27:38]  If someone's on my boat right now and they get injured, it's going to be my fault.
[00:27:42]  So I think there's these are, it's almost apples and oranges.
[00:27:46]  Yes, it's wonderful to explore and discover and share that with humanity.
[00:27:51]  And with something as sacred as the Titanic, you need to do it with an incredible amount of reverence and respect and hopefully some enlightenment learning.
[00:28:01]  But if you go there haphazardly and expose yourself to jeopardy, there can be the ultimate price to pay for that.
[00:28:11]  And we may have seen that with this vessel.
[00:28:14]  Right.
[00:28:15]  With this submersible.
[00:28:17]  Right.
[00:28:17]  Shelly, I heard that your great grandmother was so traumatized by what had happened to her that she never really recovered and that she would never get past the sound of people dying in the water and screaming out.
[00:28:35]  Yes, she went on Robert Ripley's radio show in 1939 and she spoke about that.
[00:28:43]  And she also spoke to my father in 1960 and was quite upset and pulled him aside and said that she could never get that out of her thoughts, out of her head.
[00:28:56]  The sound of 1,496 people struggling and dying in the water.
[00:29:02]  Of course, it was extremely painful because the water was about 27 degrees and it felt like knives being thrust into you.
[00:29:11]  So many, I mean, most people, the majority of people did not drown, but they froze to death and it was a horrific thing.
[00:29:20]  And she could never really get past that.
[00:29:23]  In fact, she spent 11 months in and out of a hospital trying to gather herself with what she describes as a nervous collapse.
[00:29:33]  And of course, 11 months after the accident, my grandmother was born.
[00:29:39]  Right.
[00:29:39]  And then, of course, there's this horrible irony that these people who paid the money to go down on the submersible to see the wreckage of this iconic ship, they themselves suffered a horrendous death.
[00:29:53]  I mean, we can only hope and pray it was as instant as the experts believe it probably was, but a horrible irony nonetheless.
[00:30:00]  Thank you both very much indeed for joining me.
[00:30:03]  Shelly and Jeff, I really appreciate it.
[00:30:05]  Thank you.
[00:30:08]  Thank you, Pierce.

=== Bella the Cancelled Dog (06:51) ===

[00:30:09]  Well, I'm sensitive next.
[00:30:10]  A curious case of the dog that's been cancelled for not celebrating Pride Month.
[00:30:15]  That dog and its owner join me live next.
[00:30:37]  Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensor.
[00:30:38]  I want to introduce you to Bella.
[00:30:40]  Bella is a three-year-old dog who was rescued by her owner, Jonathan Miller.
[00:30:44]  I bumped into Jonathan at Royal Asker on Friday and he mentioned that Bella's likely to have become the only dog in history to have been cancelled and it's because of Pride Month.
[00:30:54]  Well, I said to Jonathan, you better come on to Piers Morgan Uncensor and explain this extraordinary story.
[00:30:59]  Well, Jonathan and Bella, welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensor.
[00:31:02]  What happened?
[00:31:04]  Well, I was in London last week, as you know, we did have the pleasure of seeing each other.
[00:31:10]  And I was, we have a little flat in London.
[00:31:12]  I live in France.
[00:31:14]  And I was struck by the ubiquitous branding for Pride everywhere.
[00:31:20]  I went to Tesco.
[00:31:22]  It was blazing with pride flags, Regent Street Pride, the pub next door pride, everything was pride.
[00:31:31]  And I began, I'm sorry, I'm a bit of a grumpy old guy, I guess, but it struck me as being slightly bizarre.
[00:31:38]  Why is there such a thing as Pride Month?
[00:31:40]  We give one day a year to veterans who died defending their country, a day to mothers, a day to fathers, maybe a couple of days to Jesus, but a month for Pride.
[00:31:50]  Anyway, at this moment, I received an email from a company called Tractive in Austria, which makes a GPS tracker, which lets me keep an eye on Bella as she hunts in the vines every day for green lizards and wild boar and long-eared hares.
[00:32:11]  And the email suggested that I should order a rainbow flag cover for Bella's GPS device so that she could show her pride in Pride Month.
[00:32:24]  And I'm afraid I was triggered.
[00:32:26]  And I rather grumpily wrote to Tractive in Austria and I said, why don't you just concentrate on tracking dogs and cease the virtue of signaling, which I thought was a fair enough point.
[00:32:42]  And I got a reply that said, We've taken, thank you for your email.
[00:32:46]  It was a very passive, aggressive reply.
[00:32:49]  Thank you for your email.
[00:32:50]  We've cancelled your subscription to Tractive, so you can no longer track your dog.
[00:32:56]  So being the evil journalist that I am, I immediately thought, well, this is a good story.
[00:33:02]  I wrote it for the spectator, got a huge reaction.
[00:33:05]  And you liked the story too.
[00:33:07]  And you've now had an apology from the CEO of Tractive.
[00:33:11]  Then this morning, the story continues.
[00:33:15]  Bella, it's past Bella's bedtime.
[00:33:17]  She's a little first live television show.
[00:33:22]  I get an email from the chief executive officer of Tractive.
[00:33:26]  Bella's going to jump down now.
[00:33:28]  So you've seen all you're going to see of Bella.
[00:33:32]  I get an email from the chief executive tractor apologizing rather humbly and saying that the person who cancelled me had no right to do so and that they indeed do respect other points of view.
[00:33:47]  He said that Tractive continues to support pride, which I guess is their right.
[00:33:55]  But all is well that ends well, and that Bella can continue her peregrinations in the vines without fear of becoming lost should she be distracted.
[00:34:05]  But it is an extraordinary situation, I think.
[00:34:08]  I think you hit the nail on the head.
[00:34:09]  It's not about not wanting to embrace the spirit of pride.
[00:34:13]  Of course, I do.
[00:34:14]  I'm sure you do.
[00:34:16]  Why is there a whole month of it?
[00:34:18]  Why is it all so completely over the top?
[00:34:20]  And why, if you raise any raised eyebrow, even about your dog having to embrace this, then you get cancelled.
[00:34:27]  Oh, no, that's it.
[00:34:28]  Your dog can die.
[00:34:29]  Sorry.
[00:34:30]  It seems to me that this thing has spun slightly out of control.
[00:34:37]  And corporations in particular and governments have embraced this as if LGBTQ XYZ or whatever it now is is some kind of ideology.
[00:34:51]  And I don't really understand why it should be so sacred.
[00:34:57]  And I don't even actually accept that LGBTQ, et cetera, is really a community.
[00:35:04]  I noticed in the King's Birthday Honours List, which was published a few days ago, and in which Mrs. Miller, my wife, featured, There was an award given for services to the LGBTQ community.
[00:35:22]  I mean, what?
[00:35:23]  Really?
[00:35:24]  I mean, it's not really a community.
[00:35:26]  The L's don't seem to get along particularly well with the Gs and the T's don't seem to get on particularly well with any of them.
[00:35:32]  That's true.
[00:35:34]  And it's not certainly, you know, I have gay friends and have had for years.
[00:35:40]  I've had gay colleagues.
[00:35:41]  I have absolute respect for gay people.
[00:35:44]  They can do whatever they want.
[00:35:46]  But this kind of in-your-face ideological push by corporations and governments to identify with this strikes me as excessive and not really proportionate, given that there are many, many deserving, I mean, a gay pride day, okay, but a gay pride month.
[00:36:07]  Listen, I totally agree.
[00:36:09]  I think it is over the top now.
[00:36:11]  And I don't like being forced to do anything.
[00:36:13]  And I think what happened here was you were basically told if you didn't, you know, if you didn't go along with this, your dog would then be put in danger, have its tracking turned off.
[00:36:23]  I'll read out a statement from Michael Hoonas.
[00:36:26]  He's the CEO of Attractive.
[00:36:27]  He's allowed to apologise.
[00:36:28]  One of our support agents felt personally targeted, reacted in a manner he shouldn't have, that shouldn't have happened.
[00:36:34]  We have internally taken appropriate measures.
[00:36:35]  I want to emphasise that we do not share your view, but we do accept different opinions.
[00:36:40]  I'm not even sure he really knows what your view is.
[00:36:42]  I've reinstated your service and added three months of free service.
[00:36:46]  But an interesting little twist there, whether he doesn't agree with your view, he presumably thinks you're homophobic, because if you don't agree with everything that is laid down as law on this stuff by the mob, then you become transphobic, homophobic, whatever it is.

=== Elton's Karaoke Moment (04:41) ===

[00:37:00]  I'm none of those things.
[00:37:01]  I suspect you're not either.
[00:37:03]  But continue to raise eyebrows, Jonathan, because thanks to your going public, Bella has been uncancelled.
[00:37:10]  Bella has been uncancelled.
[00:37:12]  That's correct.
[00:37:13]  And she's a very happy dog.
[00:37:14]  And it's past her bedtime and probably past mine.
[00:37:19]  I won't keep you any longer, Jonathan.
[00:37:21]  I'm delighted to.
[00:37:22]  What a pleasure to see you again last week.
[00:37:24]  And we'll talk again.
[00:37:26]  It is great to see you.
[00:37:26]  Thanks for coming on.
[00:37:28]  My regards to Bella.
[00:37:29]  Take care.
[00:37:30]  Bye.
[00:37:30]  Thanks.
[00:37:31]  Extraordinary state of affairs.
[00:37:32]  Well, uncensored next.
[00:37:33]  From Louis Capaldi fighting hard to stay on stage to Sir Elton John using an auto key to remember his own lyrics.
[00:37:39]  I'll give my uncensored verdict on Glastonbury next.
[00:38:00]  Welcome back to Fears Morgan Censor.
[00:38:02]  Welcome to my Pat, Kevin Maguire, Associate Editor of Daily Mirror, talk to you contributor Esther Cracker and by talk to you presenter Rosanna Lockwood, Glastonbury, somewhere where I think hell begins and ends.
[00:38:13]  Being in a tiny little tent surrounded by the stinking masses of Glastonbury with their pink hair and nose rings is my idea of EDs.
[00:38:23]  However, I'm aware that it is popular with a certain type of human being.
[00:38:27]  And there were some pretty extraordinary moments over the weekend.
[00:38:31]  Here's a little taste.
[00:38:56]  So two of probably the most extraordinary moments there, Rosanna.
[00:39:00]  One, Sir Elton.
[00:39:01]  Look, I'm not his biggest fan, really.
[00:39:04]  It felt a bit karaoke to me, the whole thing, if I'm honest.
[00:39:07]  It was a good old show.
[00:39:08]  But the bit that caught my eye was when he was reading his own song lyrics on an auto queue.
[00:39:14]  And he did it the entire duration of his performance.
[00:39:18]  It reminded me once at Sinatra's last gig in London.
[00:39:21]  He was caught reading the lyrics to my way.
[00:39:23]  So I think my point is, if you actually have to read the lyrics to your own smash hits, should you still be performing?
[00:39:30]  Or is he right now to hang it up?
[00:39:32]  To you and me, Piers, it might be throwing stones in glass houses, attacking people for reading autocues.
[00:39:38]  Come on, just say on Twitter, mate, you've read AutoC for 20 years.
[00:39:41]  What are you on about here?
[00:39:43]  Exactly.
[00:39:43]  And look, look, he's plus 60 now.
[00:39:45]  It's his last gig.
[00:39:47]  I watched the entire thing.
[00:39:48]  I sort of had it on the background whilst I was scrolling my phone on Twitter as usual.
[00:39:51]  And it didn't grip me until the finale until Rocket Man.
[00:39:55]  But, you know, I just find when they wheel out what I can call the gold maldies at Glastonbury, they don't put on as hungry a performance as some of the younger and the newer.
[00:40:03]  Having said that, he got record TV audiences, record crowd turned up.
[00:40:07]  I mean, Esther, you can't not, I mean, and I think there's also, just on longevity alone, five decades, a bit like Paul McCartney last year and these guys, the ones who write the songs, right?
[00:40:17]  These iconic records for five, six decades.
[00:40:20]  You got a handed to them.
[00:40:21]  I mean, he would draw a huge audience making a cup of tea.
[00:40:24]  So that's a given.
[00:40:25]  I do think that when an artist reaches sort of icon status, they need to be protected like an egg.
[00:40:30]  Do you know what I mean?
[00:40:30]  They shouldn't have any viral moments where they look ridiculous.
[00:40:33]  I mean, Mariah Kerry has...
[00:40:34]  Have I reached that status yet?
[00:40:38]  I wouldn't mind being protected like an egg.
[00:40:41]  Yeah, but I think like people like Mariah Kerry and you know, just the greats, just preserve them because you don't want them to have viral moments.
[00:40:47]  In this era of the internet and of meme culture, the internet is unforgiving.
[00:40:51]  Well, I'll tell you what was fascinating.
[00:40:55]  The Lewis Capaldi thing.
[00:40:56]  So Lewis Capaldi suffers from Tourette's.
[00:40:59]  And he got an attack of Tourette's coupled with severe anxiety when it happened, understandably.
[00:41:04]  And he literally couldn't sing.
[00:41:06]  So you've got this massive star at Glastonbury, huge crowd.
[00:41:10]  And I know a lot of people in his position would have just walked off.
[00:41:13]  So cute credit to him.
[00:41:14]  But what was extraordinarily moving was the way the crowd filled in the gaps and began singing, recognising the struggle he was having.
[00:41:22]  Took them along because they know.
[00:41:23]  He's spoken about it publicly.
[00:41:25]  He took time out before Glastonbury.
[00:41:27]  So everybody is on his side.
[00:41:28]  I saw him at Park Life in Manchester last year.
[00:41:30]  He's a fantastic performer.
[00:41:31]  He's a great showman.
[00:41:32]  Brilliant talent.
[00:41:33]  Hello.
[00:41:34]  And it's like it's Elton John.
[00:41:36]  He is.
[00:41:36]  He just needs to be protected.
[00:41:37]  He's 76, so he doesn't remember the way he used to.

=== Crowd Saves Glastonbury (05:17) ===

[00:41:41]  And people make allowances for that.
[00:41:44]  Would you go to Glastonbury?
[00:41:45]  Would you go?
[00:41:46]  Have you been?
[00:41:46]  No, I've been to other festivals.
[00:41:49]  I don't mind.
[00:41:50]  I don't mind.
[00:41:51]  I've been three years in a row.
[00:41:52]  Of course you have.
[00:41:53]  A liberal tent.
[00:41:55]  To the masses.
[00:41:56]  They're all like you, basically.
[00:41:58]  Rich middle classies, aren't they?
[00:42:00]  They all are.
[00:42:01]  I'm too much on that.
[00:42:02]  And if you watch it from home, you save 340 quid and go at the toilet.
[00:42:06]  And you can see what's happening.
[00:42:08]  You can shower.
[00:42:09]  340 quid, I think, is a steal for what you get.
[00:42:12]  You get almost four days of some of the biggest acts in the world.
[00:42:14]  And I do not agree with knocking this festival off.
[00:42:16]  The only festival I've ever gone to has stayed in a tent.
[00:42:19]  Two things happened.
[00:42:20]  One, the tent at a four-man tent with one mate, and it burnt down on the first night.
[00:42:25]  You had to spend the entire three days in a one-man tent after that.
[00:42:29]  But secondly, Charlene was top of the bill.
[00:42:32]  Remember Charlene?
[00:42:33]  I've been to Paradise, but it's never been to me.
[00:42:35]  And number six on the bill, who I managed to see by pure chance, were a young up-and-coming Irish band, 1981, I think it was.
[00:42:44]  You know who they were?
[00:42:44]  You two.
[00:42:45]  Six on the bill to Charlene.
[00:42:48]  Cliff Richard was second.
[00:42:49]  Number six, you two.
[00:42:51]  What happened to me?
[00:42:52]  I was there.
[00:42:53]  Very cool.
[00:42:53]  I was there.
[00:42:54]  They're in the basement.
[00:42:55]  Well, in the one moment.
[00:42:56]  It was fantastic.
[00:42:57]  Fantastic.
[00:42:57]  The Green Belt Christian Rock Festival.
[00:43:00]  I only went because all the best-looking girls in the village were all members of the church youth club.
[00:43:04]  So the only way to...
[00:43:06]  A noble cause.
[00:43:07]  Yeah, it wasn't really a religious thing.
[00:43:09]  So let's talk, secondly, about this amazing clip.
[00:43:12]  I love this.
[00:43:13]  Belgian shot putter called Jolian Bornquo, right?
[00:43:17]  Now, she took part in the European championships and the 100-meter hurdles.
[00:43:21]  Watch her here.
[00:43:22]  She's the one at the back.
[00:43:27]  It took her 19 seconds.
[00:43:30]  Right?
[00:43:31]  And you might think, on the face of it, how utterly embarrassing.
[00:43:35]  What are you doing?
[00:43:36]  How did you ever get near the 100-meter hurdles at a European championship?
[00:43:41]  But do you know the reason she was doing it?
[00:43:43]  It's brilliant.
[00:43:44]  And look how careful she's been.
[00:43:46]  If she knocked any of them over, she would be deducted points, right?
[00:43:50]  And the reason she's running, even though she came last by miles, was that the other two Belgian hurdlers had to pull out from injury.
[00:44:00]  If no one competed in the event, the team would have been disqualified.
[00:44:05]  So she stood up and went, I'll do it.
[00:44:08]  It's great.
[00:44:08]  Knowing she'd be a viral mocked, but I don't think she is.
[00:44:11]  People have loved it.
[00:44:12]  Everybody loved it on Australia.
[00:44:14]  I think people, because people understand why she's doing it, it doesn't actually look ridiculous.
[00:44:18]  It's great.
[00:44:18]  And she said of it, I don't take myself too seriously when it comes to sport, which I just think is for a professional athlete.
[00:44:25]  I think she's quite a heroic person to do that.
[00:44:28]  She should challenge all the others to a shot put.
[00:44:31]  Look at the hurdlers to shot put.
[00:44:33]  She's an 11-time national championship.
[00:44:36]  Who would have run a chance?
[00:44:37]  So I want to play another clip.
[00:44:39]  Just a bit of a gear changes.
[00:44:40]  This is Barack Obama talking about the Titanic submersible.
[00:44:46]  That's what he did by comparison.
[00:44:51]  Have we got it?
[00:44:53]  Not sure we have got it.
[00:44:55]  Maybe we can find it.
[00:44:56]  Here we go.
[00:44:57]  And the next day they sent someone out to survey her yard.
[00:45:00]  Sorry, that isn't it.
[00:45:01]  That's obviously not Barack Obama.
[00:45:02]  Unless Joe Biden is now identifying as Barack Obama.
[00:45:06]  Well, you can do that these days.
[00:45:07]  Do we have that?
[00:45:08]  Is it done?
[00:45:09]  Here we go.
[00:45:10]  Here we go.
[00:45:12]  There's a potential tragedy unfolding with a submarine that is getting, you know, minute-to-minute coverage all around the world.
[00:45:24]  And it's understandable because obviously we all want and pray that those folks are rescued.
[00:45:31]  But the fact that that's gotten so much more attention than 700 people who say is that's a that's an untenable situation.
[00:45:53]  We've only got a minute on this, but Rosanna, I mean, he makes a point.
[00:45:57]  It's a lot of people that made that point.
[00:45:58]  Is he right to make the comparison?
[00:46:00]  I think we absolutely have to have that conversation.
[00:46:02]  We know why the submarine story caught everyone's attention.
[00:46:05]  It's unique.
[00:46:05]  It's far, it's interesting.
[00:46:06]  People can relate to it.
[00:46:07]  They perhaps can't relate to being a migrant.
[00:46:09]  But I think if you don't have that conversation, then there's something terribly wrong going on in the world because just stand back, it's five people, it's 700.
[00:46:16]  Esther, the argument goes the migrants were trying to travel somewhere illegally, blah, blah, blah.
[00:46:21]  But is that a humane argument?
[00:46:23]  Well, it's not.
[00:46:24]  And you have to understand.
[00:46:25]  I mean, you're right.
[00:46:26]  People can't identify with it.
[00:46:27]  You have to imagine how desperate those people are to risk their lives in that way.
[00:46:30]  And I think that's something that we have to remember.
[00:46:33]  There's something really important to do.
[00:46:34]  As he pricked our conscience here, Barack Obama.
[00:46:36]  Yeah, I think he has like a lot of...
[00:46:37]  Should we be throwing the kitchen seat next time, not at five people in the submersible of their own volition, but 700 people drowning?
[00:46:44]  I see why the five people in an iconic wreck was a big story, but we didn't cover enough 700 people drowning.
[00:46:49]  I think the answer is you can do both.
[00:46:52]  Thank you, Pat.
[00:46:52]  That's it for me tonight.
[00:46:53]  We're in Rob Tim.
[00:46:54]  We'll keep it uncensored.
[00:46:56]  And as Alton would say, don't you breaking my heart.