Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20230613_piers-morgan-uncensored-trump-in-court-live-covera
Aired: 2023-06-13
Duration: 47:02


=== Historic Arrest in Federal Court (05:32) ===

[00:00:02]  Well, good evening.
[00:00:03]  Welcome to a quite historic show.
[00:00:06]  Piers Morgan on censored breaking news.
[00:00:08]  Former President Donald Trump is under arrest inside the federal courthouse in Miami, facing 37 criminal charges of his handling of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, his foreigner home.
[00:00:21]  This is real history unfurling.
[00:00:23]  Donald Trump becomes the first current or ex-president of the United States to ever face federal criminal charges.
[00:00:32]  And again, it's for all the wrong reasons because Trump has done this to himself.
[00:00:38]  And as a result, he could now face going to jail.
[00:00:42]  Tonight, we're bringing you the very latest from the United States and asking big questions about America's future, which in so many ways is the world's future.
[00:00:50]  Could Trump run for president from behind bars?
[00:00:53]  You wouldn't put it past him.
[00:00:54]  Will these federal charges mark a tipping point in the battle with the soul of the Republican Party?
[00:00:59]  Or will Trump again defy the odds and emerge stronger than ever?
[00:01:03]  Well, in a moment, we'll have a reaction from outside the court.
[00:01:06]  But to put this historic moment into context, joining me now is criminal defense lawyer, Jane Weintram.
[00:01:10]  Jane, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
[00:01:13]  How serious, how serious is this?
[00:01:17]  This is extremely serious.
[00:01:20]  I represent people every day in this courthouse, except for today, because all of our hearings were postponed till tomorrow, and they're actually evacuating downtown Miami, where I'm sitting as we speak.
[00:01:32]  It is very serious.
[00:01:33]  He's looking at jail.
[00:01:34]  He's looking at espionage charges, conspiracy charges.
[00:01:38]  He made our country vulnerable.
[00:01:41]  That is unacceptable.
[00:01:43]  He has made fun of our Constitution.
[00:01:46]  He has made fun of our judges.
[00:01:47]  He's impugned the integrity of our court system.
[00:01:50]  It is the very core for which I live for 31 years practicing law.
[00:01:54]  So I find it offensive and I find the evidence very serious.
[00:01:58]  And there is a qualitative difference, isn't there, between the charges from New York in relation to alleged hush money payments to Stormy Daniels, the porn star, and this.
[00:02:09]  This is an altogether totally different and way more serious series of charges.
[00:02:16]  Yes.
[00:02:17]  I mean, the case in New York is, you know, paying off a hooker and not entering it on his books properly.
[00:02:22]  I mean, please give me a break.
[00:02:25]  And I am not a Trump supporter.
[00:02:27]  However, that's ridiculous compared to what's going on here in federal court.
[00:02:31]  What's going on here in federal court are very serious felony charges that have been launched against the former president of the United States.
[00:02:40]  Historic indeed.
[00:02:41]  Sad is the real word for the day.
[00:02:44]  And let me ask you, I mean, obviously, we're into unprecedented territory just with these charges.
[00:02:48]  But then there comes the case of, well, if Trump is convicted, could he still run as president?
[00:02:54]  And the Constitution apparently allows that.
[00:02:56]  Could he even, if it came to it, could he actually be president from his prison cell if he's convicted and jailed?
[00:03:04]  And again, I believe the Constitution would technically allow that to happen.
[00:03:08]  I do too.
[00:03:09]  And it is crazy.
[00:03:11]  Obviously, our forefathers never envisioned such a disgraceful situation occurring.
[00:03:16]  I do think that he can run for president.
[00:03:19]  It's clear that he's not going to be barred from running for president.
[00:03:24]  It's another story if he is convicted and sentenced.
[00:03:27]  You know, remember, what's really at the crux here is the cover-up.
[00:03:33]  To me, Pierce, the cover-up is worse than the crime.
[00:03:36]  You know, what was the crime?
[00:03:37]  Keeping classified documents.
[00:03:39]  But was that really the crime?
[00:03:40]  No, the crime was the cover-up.
[00:03:42]  The crime was when the government came in and said, Mr. Trump, you have to return these documents.
[00:03:47]  They have national security information.
[00:03:50]  We are vulnerable to other countries if this gets out.
[00:03:54]  And he refused.
[00:03:55]  He refused and he entered into this whole long journey to deceive the United States government from recovering these documents.
[00:04:04]  And he did something else that was horrible.
[00:04:06]  He put his lawyer at risk.
[00:04:08]  I mean, if you can't speak to your lawyer in confidence and know that we'll remain confident, that's terrible.
[00:04:14]  And that's the message of today.
[00:04:16]  But the real thing about the attorney-client privilege of being pierced, pardon the pun, is that if the lawyer is being used to facilitate a crime of fraud, then there is no longer that attorney-client privilege.
[00:04:30]  In other words, you can confide in your lawyer, I killed somebody a week ago, and the lawyer can never repeat that.
[00:04:36]  However, if you say, I'm going to kill my lawyer next week, or I'm going to kill somebody else next week, the lawyer has an outright obligation to report future criminal conduct that he knows of or she knows of to the authorities.
[00:04:51]  We have a clip, I think, of the Trump lawyer, Helena Haber.
[00:04:56]  Let's listen to this.
[00:04:59]  The targeting prosecution of a leading political opponent is the type of thing you see in dictatorships like Cuba and Venezuela.
[00:05:12]  What is being done to the President Trump should terrify all citizens of this country.
[00:05:19]  Well, joining me now is the former Arizona governor nominee and rising star of the Republican Party, Carrie Lake, who remains a big supporter of the former president.
[00:05:28]  And she's outside the court there in Miami.
[00:05:31]  Carrie, I mean, extraordinary scenes.
[00:05:33]  They're obviously unprecedented.

=== Election Interference and Support (08:06) ===

[00:05:34]  We've never had any current or ex-president of the United States indicted on federal charges.
[00:05:40]  And most people I've spoken to, and we're just hearing, by the way, breaking news, Donald Trump has pled not guilty to these charges.
[00:05:48]  But most people I've spoken to from a legal point of view describe these charges, as indeed Jane Wildtrap just did, as exceptionally serious and certainly way more serious than the charges relating to Stormy Daniels and hush money payments.
[00:06:03]  So what is your response, having read the indictment?
[00:06:07]  Well, you're right.
[00:06:08]  We've never seen this happen before because we've never had someone as corrupt as Joe Biden sitting in the White House turning our government against our people.
[00:06:16]  We've never had someone like Joe Biden who is in fact a criminal himself, who's taken bribes from the CCP, who's taken bribes from Ukraine and many others, having to turn and weaponize our department to go after his rival.
[00:06:30]  And this is election interference.
[00:06:32]  Donald Trump is an innocent man.
[00:06:34]  He will be found innocent at the end of the day.
[00:06:37]  And the American people are fed up.
[00:06:39]  They're tired of watching our government being weaponized against us.
[00:06:43]  And this is outrageous.
[00:06:44]  There was a beautiful show of support for President Trump.
[00:06:48]  There were many people showing their President Trump, waving their President Trump flags.
[00:06:52]  And it was really a nice setup down there where a lot of people came out to say, we're tired of this, and we're tired of our government being turned against us.
[00:07:00]  I mean, the problem I have with that, Gary, I've read the indictment closely.
[00:07:04]  And apart from anything else, you hear him on tape, Donald Trump, clearly conceding the documents he has have not been declassified, something he always said he'd done, which many lawyers say is just a fait accompli right there, that he's admitting himself that these are not declassified documents, and he's sharing the details with other people.
[00:07:29]  I sure wish they would share what these documents are.
[00:07:31]  They're being very mum about what's in them.
[00:07:33]  I'm really curious about what's in them.
[00:07:35]  And Pierce, there's more evidence of wrongdoing and crime.
[00:07:38]  Frankly, on Hillary Clinton's servers, there's more evidence of crime in Joe Biden's garage in those boxes where he had no ability to declassify those documents because he was a senator and a vice president.
[00:07:52]  And frankly, there's more evidence of a crime on Monica Lewinsky's dress than in those boxes that were pulled from Mar-a-Lago.
[00:07:59]  And everybody knows it.
[00:08:00]  Everybody's tired of this charade.
[00:08:02]  Carrie is illegitimate.
[00:08:03]  Let me jump in, Karen.
[00:08:04]  His administration is illegitimate as well.
[00:08:08]  Okay, how do you know that, Carrie?
[00:08:10]  How can you be so sure, A, what's in the documents?
[00:08:13]  And how do you explain that even when he was asked to give the stuff back, he didn't?
[00:08:21]  You know what?
[00:08:22]  The president has the right to take the items from the White House.
[00:08:25]  It's happened with Obama.
[00:08:26]  It's happened with previous presidents.
[00:08:28]  It's happened with Bill Clinton.
[00:08:30]  They have the right to do that.
[00:08:31]  And presidents have the right to declassify documents.
[00:08:34]  They don't even have to announce it.
[00:08:35]  They can just think about it and they can be declassified.
[00:08:38]  It doesn't matter.
[00:08:39]  This is a bogus case.
[00:08:41]  And you know what it is?
[00:08:42]  It's really just a way, Pierce, to give cover to Joe Biden, who just this week we found out took another $5 million bribe and payout from the CCP.
[00:08:52]  And we have 17 recordings of him, according to Senator Grassley, on tape being recorded taking bribes and payouts from Ukraine.
[00:09:01]  This is a distraction to give you and the media something to talk about so you don't have to talk about the crimes Joe Biden commits.
[00:09:08]  Well, it's going to give you a lot of time for the next five minutes.
[00:09:11]  Listen, I have no truck in defending Joe Biden from anything or Hillary Clinton.
[00:09:16]  I was savagely critical of Hillary Clinton throughout the whole email scandal.
[00:09:20]  I thought that was outrageous.
[00:09:21]  And I do think there are legitimate charges of double standards here, particularly from the liberal skewed U.S. mainstream media about the way they've treated Hillary Clinton's emails, Joe Biden's documents, and others.
[00:09:34]  I think that's a completely valid point.
[00:09:36]  But that doesn't in itself negate the severity of what Donald Trump is accused of doing here.
[00:09:41]  So my question to you is, if he's actually convicted.
[00:09:44]  Hang on, Carrie.
[00:09:45]  If he's convicted, is it really realistic that Donald Trump, as a convicted felon on serious federal charges, would continue to run for president or indeed win the White House, which he couldn't be in?
[00:09:59]  Pierce, you haven't been in the States recently to find out just how corrupt our government is.
[00:10:05]  From top to bottom, this government is corrupt.
[00:10:07]  The judicial branch, the DOJ, the CDC, the FBI, this entire administration is corrupt.
[00:10:14]  And Donald Trump is an innocent man.
[00:10:17]  We know that.
[00:10:17]  This is just another witness.
[00:10:19]  No, no, no, you believe that.
[00:10:20]  Ever since he got into the office.
[00:10:20]  No, We don't know that.
[00:10:23]  Ever since he got into office, it's been one thing happening to give you guys something to talk about.
[00:10:28]  Stop talking about you guys.
[00:10:29]  We're all the same.
[00:10:30]  I don't have anything in common with a lot of the media that you have this big problem with.
[00:10:34]  But what I would say about this is I read the indictment.
[00:10:36]  These are serious charges.
[00:10:38]  And I don't think that the special counsel who's leveled them can be deemed to be a partisan guy.
[00:10:44]  So there's a possibility Trump gets convicted.
[00:10:47]  So my question again, if he is convicted, should he or could he run for office?
[00:10:55]  You can indict a ham sandwich.
[00:10:57]  Conviction is a whole nother story.
[00:10:59]  And he should run for office.
[00:11:00]  He's not going to quit.
[00:11:01]  Donald Trump is the only person standing up for we the people.
[00:11:04]  Our government has turned on us right now.
[00:11:06]  We have an illegitimate Joe Biden sitting in office weaponizing our government against his lead rival.
[00:11:13]  This is election interference.
[00:11:15]  They know they can't stop President Trump.
[00:11:17]  They know he has the people behind him.
[00:11:19]  They know he's going to win.
[00:11:21]  And they keep trying to throw these other candidates in, trying to get the American people excited about these other people.
[00:11:26]  And they're not.
[00:11:27]  They want President Trump in office.
[00:11:29]  And the only way to stop him is to throw bogus indictments at him and try to arrest him and stop him.
[00:11:35]  Okay, and a court of law is going to discuss.
[00:11:38]  His support is not going away.
[00:11:40]  You believe they're all bogus and you have a touching loyalty to Donald Trump.
[00:11:44]  I want to play a clip.
[00:11:46]  from you I believe on Friday talking about what may happen.
[00:11:51]  If you want to get to President Trump you're going to have to go through me and you're going to have to go through 75 million Americans just like me.
[00:12:00]  And I'm going to tell you, yep, most of us are card-carrying members of the NRA.
[00:12:14]  That's not a threat.
[00:12:17]  That's a public service announcement.
[00:12:19]  We will not let you lay a finger on President Trump.
[00:12:24]  Frankly, now is the time.
[00:12:26]  Frankly, now is the time to cling to our guns and our religion.
[00:12:31]  Thank you, Georgia.
[00:12:33]  That's pretty incendiary stuff, Carrie, to suggest that you've all got your guns and you're going to use them to defend Donald Trump.
[00:12:43]  That's not what I said.
[00:12:44]  I am using my freedom of speech to say that we support President Trump.
[00:12:48]  Millions, hundreds of millions of Americans do.
[00:12:52]  And the law-abiding gun owners in America are not the trouble.
[00:12:56]  It's the outrageous rioters on the street that, you know, the media has supported Don Lemon defending Antifa, calling it peaceful protests.
[00:13:05]  We know what, you know, you guys, you guys will always defend Antifa and the people.
[00:13:10]  You're saying you guys.
[00:13:11]  What do you mean you guys?
[00:13:14]  You think I've got anything in common with Don Lemon?
[00:13:16]  Really?
[00:13:17]  Have you watched my show?
[00:13:19]  Actually.
[00:13:19]  Did Don Lemon ever have you on his show like I have?
[00:13:24]  I see how you constantly attack Trump, and I know that that's what your network wants because that's their narrative.
[00:13:30]  It's nothing to do with the network that I work for.
[00:13:32]  And by the way, I have regularly supported Trump when he's warranted support, and I have regularly criticized him when I felt he deserves criticism.

=== Robust Defense of Trump (03:26) ===

[00:13:40]  Now I'm taking a more...
[00:13:41]  Well, he warrants.
[00:13:42]  Now I'm taking a more down-the-line position, which is he has been indicted with very serious charges.
[00:13:48]  You may not like it, but you don't know that he's innocent.
[00:13:51]  You just hope he is.
[00:13:54]  Pierce, this whole government is illegitimate right now under Joe Biden.
[00:13:57]  It's completely gone bonkers, and they are weaponizing our Department of Justice.
[00:14:04]  It should be called the Department of Injustice right now against Trump.
[00:14:08]  When the real criminal is sitting in the White House right now, he doesn't even know where he is.
[00:14:12]  His name is Joe Biden.
[00:14:14]  He has taken tens of millions of dollars of bribes, and they're trying to deflect and put the attention on Trump to give you and the media somebody to talk about and something negative to say about Trump.
[00:14:25]  Just for the record.
[00:14:25]  Like the media has been for eight years.
[00:14:28]  Just for the record, I haven't mentioned Biden other than when I've responded to you.
[00:14:32]  So when you say you, the media, we're all being some collective blob.
[00:14:36]  It's like me saying you politicians, as if you're all the same.
[00:14:39]  You're not.
[00:14:40]  So stop calling me you the media.
[00:14:43]  Anyway, I've got to leave it there, but it's always a joy to catch up.
[00:14:46]  You do work for one of the big, you work for one of the corporate giants.
[00:14:50]  You work for Rupert Murdoch, and I understand he is for making sure Trump doesn't get into office.
[00:14:56]  And, you know, that's who signs your check, Pierce.
[00:14:58]  So you've got to go along with the company line.
[00:15:01]  Absolutely.
[00:15:01]  Company electronic under the Murdoch.
[00:15:03]  You said this last time is anti-Trump.
[00:15:05]  I have had absolutely no instruction from anybody at Fox to have any opinion about anybody.
[00:15:13]  That's just not what happens there.
[00:15:14]  You might think it does.
[00:15:16]  Nobody has ever said to me what I should say about Donald Trump.
[00:15:20]  It's worse than you think.
[00:15:21]  I say things I actually mean.
[00:15:24]  I'm one of those guys in the media.
[00:15:25]  I've worked in the media for 30 years under one of these corporate giants.
[00:15:29]  I won't name who.
[00:15:30]  And so I understand the subtle pressure you get to toe the company line.
[00:15:35]  I'm going to have to leave it there, not because I'm cutting you off, but because you've had more time than we allocated.
[00:15:40]  I've got to get to other news and other guests.
[00:15:42]  I always love interviewing with you.
[00:15:43]  I like having you on the show.
[00:15:44]  always robust, but just for the record, nobody tells me what to think or say, and that's why it's called uncensored.
[00:15:50]  Carrie, great to talk to you.
[00:15:51]  Same here.
[00:15:52]  God bless you.
[00:15:53]  Thank you, Angie.
[00:15:54]  Uncensored next.
[00:15:55]  What does this mean for the future of the Republican Party?
[00:15:57]  Megan McCain with a rather different view to the one we've just heard.
[00:16:01]  Joins me live.
[00:16:16]  Well, welcome back to Pittsburgh and Uncensored and historic moment in American history.
[00:16:21]  Donald Trump has pleaded not guilty to all counts in court in Miami facing 37 criminal charges over his handling of classified documents.
[00:16:31]  He's the first current or former president to ever face federal charges.
[00:16:35]  Commentator and author Megan McCain joins me now.
[00:16:38]  Well, Megan, I just had a very robust defense of Donald Trump from Carrie Lake.
[00:16:42]  Yeah.
[00:16:43]  I can't imagine you've shared that.
[00:16:44]  And I would just like to say, I think you're like, no, and I think you're one of like the most even-killed journalists that work.
[00:16:50]  Thank you.
[00:16:51]  I didn't understand.
[00:16:52]  Thank you.
[00:16:52]  You're antagonistic.
[00:16:54]  It's when she says you not.
[00:16:55]  We're all the same.
[00:16:56]  Outrageous.
[00:16:57]  But Megan, great to have you on the show.
[00:16:59]  I was like, you were literally fired for free speech.
[00:17:03]  Thank you.
[00:17:04]  Anyway, thank you, Megan.
[00:17:05]  It's a pleasure to be here as well.

=== Republican Nomination Dilemma (16:21) ===

[00:17:07]  It's going to happen.
[00:17:08]  It's a pleasure to be here as well.
[00:17:10]  What is your reaction to this really quite historic moment?
[00:17:13]  I mean, this is the first time any American president, current or ex, has ever been charged with federal charges.
[00:17:20]  This is a big moment.
[00:17:23]  Oh, it's huge.
[00:17:24]  I mean, it will be something that my children will read about in history books.
[00:17:27]  And it's, you know, it's really disheartening.
[00:17:29]  It's really depressing.
[00:17:30]  As an American, it's embarrassing.
[00:17:32]  I mean, the global culture is watching us and, you know, seeing what's happening.
[00:17:37]  He's by far the frontrunner, as you saw with your last guest.
[00:17:40]  There are people that will vote for him if he is, you know, sent to prison and would be running the country from prison.
[00:17:47]  So it's amazing to me that, you know, he's accused of 37 counts.
[00:17:52]  It's a lot.
[00:17:54]  You know, General Petraeus almost went to jail for three.
[00:17:57]  So I think we're in a situation that is obviously unprecedented and unusual waters, but that's no different than anything we've dealt with with President Trump.
[00:18:05]  I'm interested to see how the current group of people running for president on the Republican ticket are going to be handling it going forward, because right now a lot of them are defending him.
[00:18:14]  Right.
[00:18:14]  I mean, that's the really interesting question, isn't it?
[00:18:16]  Because at some point, the Republican Party has to make a decision about whether it can actually go forward with a guy who's facing not just state charges over hush payments to a porn star, but is now facing 37 incredibly serious charges on this indictment, you know, about under the Espionage Act, about basically using classified documents written to nuclear power to, you know, to how you would go after enemy states and so on.
[00:18:43]  This is not chicken feed.
[00:18:44]  This is serious stuff.
[00:18:47]  No, and look, I woke up this morning to the news that I read online that there was a person who had gone to the White House and appeared topless at a pride party over the weekend.
[00:18:58]  And I was just saddened and also horrified at the state of different kinds of things going on in the country.
[00:19:03]  Joe Biden is an incredibly weak candidate.
[00:19:05]  75% of independent candidates, voters don't want him running for president.
[00:19:10]  80% of Republicans, over 50% of Democrats don't want him running for president.
[00:19:15]  Republicans can literally only lose this election if we nominate Donald Trump.
[00:19:19]  And it looks like that's what we're doing.
[00:19:21]  And I think we're going to have to have a really hard look as to what our party, but also what our country is going to look like with him being the frontrunner.
[00:19:30]  That being said, I don't see a lot of courage coming out of Washington, D.C. and courage coming out of these candidates running.
[00:19:36]  There's no one I'm particularly excited about, including Ron DeSantis.
[00:19:39]  And none of this is good enough.
[00:19:40]  And I think part of it is if you walk this line where you're going to, you know, suck up to President Trump and want to get his supporters, but at the same time, want to, you know, differentiate yourself from him, it's not something that's going to be possible.
[00:19:52]  And I do think there is a lot of voter fatigue.
[00:19:55]  And those 75% of independent voters are going to make or break this election.
[00:19:58]  And if there's one thing we've learned, they do not like President Trump.
[00:20:01]  I mean, look, this whole debate around Trump has got so toxic, so tribal.
[00:20:07]  You know, I've had times when I've supported Trump, and I've had times, not least, when he attacked your great father, when I felt his behavior has been completely sickening and demeaning of anyone who's ever held the office of president.
[00:20:19]  So Trump is this kind of character where you can like him for some things and detest him for others, but he's got this extraordinary stranglehold over a large number of Republican voters.
[00:20:31]  And if you're going to try and beat him for the nomination, you've got to somehow, as you've just rather well articulated, you've got to somehow bring those people with you without trashing their hero.
[00:20:42]  It's difficult.
[00:20:45]  Yeah, and your last guest, you know, not to make it too personal, but she went down that road and told anyone who voted for McCain to get the hell out.
[00:20:53]  And that's exactly what happened to her.
[00:20:54]  She is not the governor of Arizona, no matter what she thinks in her brain.
[00:20:58]  And the exact same thing will happen to President Trump.
[00:21:00]  He has lost Arizona, a very valuable swing state.
[00:21:03]  This will come down to three swing states in the United States of America, as it always does.
[00:21:07]  And President Trump has lost all three the last two election cycles.
[00:21:10]  So I'm not exactly sure why we continue to put our cart next to this losing horse, especially given, as you said, the historic circumstances today.
[00:21:19]  But, you know, I'm 38.
[00:21:21]  I'm a different generation.
[00:21:22]  I'm a different voter demographic.
[00:21:24]  And there just seems to be a lot of, quite frankly, older boomers that have a stranglehold on the party and want to see President Biden get re-elected.
[00:21:32]  And I, for one, don't want an 86-year-old to be president leaving office in the next cycle.
[00:21:37]  I think that's a very dangerous precedent for our country.
[00:21:40]  And my understanding is, I work at a UK publication at a job I used to have at the Daily Mail, that a lot of our friends across the pond think it's quite bizarre that we have a president that's this old and would be that old if re-elected.
[00:21:52]  Well, you could have a choice in the 2024 election if things go the way people fear, where you have a man who appears to be senile against someone who might actually have been convicted of federal offenses under the Espionage Act.
[00:22:04]  I mean, it's a completely extraordinary situation.
[00:22:10]  Yeah, and I think it's why a lot of people are looking at RFK Jr.
[00:22:12]  I'm not a fan of his nor a supporter, but he has upwards of 20% of Democrat support right now, independent support coming strong.
[00:22:20]  And I don't think it's that he's a particularly interesting candidate or politician.
[00:22:24]  You know, I think he's an activist married to a famous actress, but I think it's just that people are just so thirsty for anything that's different than these two candidates.
[00:22:32]  And just from a holistic standpoint for the American people, this is a very depressing, very scary time to have these two men as the most powerful men leading both parties.
[00:22:43]  And I think it's a recipe for disaster.
[00:22:45]  And I, quite frankly, think it's a recipe for even more disenfranchisement of what people call the establishment, what people call, as Kerry Lake was saying, like people in media circles and establishment media.
[00:22:56]  I don't adhere to that line of thinking, but it does make you very cynical about who's running things.
[00:23:00]  And I think an example of that is the Democratic National Committee is not allowing President Biden to do any debates.
[00:23:07]  I think the American public deserves to watch him debate any of the candidates who are running for president.
[00:23:12]  And like I said, RFK Jr. has over 20%.
[00:23:15]  Marion Williamson has 10%.
[00:23:16]  These are not numbers that any Democrat strategist should be ignoring right now.
[00:23:20]  Yeah, I completely agree.
[00:23:21]  Megan, always read your columns in the Daily Mail.
[00:23:23]  They're the second best columns the mail's ever run, obviously.
[00:23:29]  No, you always provoke thought.
[00:23:31]  And that's the best thing about being a good columnist.
[00:23:33]  So thank you very much for the joining me.
[00:23:35]  I appreciate it.
[00:23:36]  Thank you.
[00:23:38]  So what does this all mean for the future of the Republican Party in the 2024 presidential race?
[00:23:42]  Look at live pictures here of a courtroom in Miami where the recently deposed President Trump has just been charged on 37 counts, 37, involving classified documents of the most top secret stuff involving America's apparently evolving America's nuclear program, its plans for potentially attacking enemy states and so on.
[00:24:04]  Very sensitive stuff that he shouldn't have had in the first place.
[00:24:07]  And then when he was asked to hand it back according to the indictment, he didn't hand a lot of it back.
[00:24:13]  So these are serious things.
[00:24:15]  And you can explain away Trump, defend him as much as you want, feel like he's getting a hard time.
[00:24:20]  The indictment is serious when you read it.
[00:24:23]  Joining me now is the Conservative radio host Ben Ferguson, the host of the Rubin Report.
[00:24:27]  Dave Rubin.
[00:24:28]  All right, guys.
[00:24:28]  There's a battle raging here now for the soul of the Republican Party and a real quandary.
[00:24:36]  What does the Republican Party do about this growing number of legal issues that Donald Trump is facing?
[00:24:43]  Ben Ferguson.
[00:24:45]  Where are we here?
[00:24:46]  Donald Trump, oh, yeah, the Stormb. Daniels stuff, you can sort of joke that away, say it's trivial, bit of a witch hunt, stupid.
[00:24:52]  I don't disagree with that particularly.
[00:24:54]  But this stuff, when I read the indictment, is very serious.
[00:24:58]  If this was Joe Biden and it was leveled at him or Obama, you would be leading the charge probably to have him executed.
[00:25:06]  Not executed, but I would be leading the charge for classified documents.
[00:25:10]  If you're going to have this level of accountability for a Republican, then damn it, you better do it for everybody on the left that has also done this.
[00:25:18]  And there was no accountability.
[00:25:19]  And this is going to be why this is not a big issue in the primary for Donald Trump.
[00:25:23]  There was zero accountability for Hillary Clinton, the 3,000, 30,000 plus emails literally telling her staff to take hammers to BlackBerries and cell phones.
[00:25:33]  Zero accountability.
[00:25:34]  And that's going to be the talking point for Donald Trump.
[00:25:37]  I think he actually gets closer to the nomination today with this indictment because there are so many Americans, conservatives, that are sick and tired of a two-tier justice system where this system goes after Republicans and looks the other way when there's meetings on tarmacs between former President Bill Clinton and the Attorney General talking about Hillary Clinton.
[00:26:01]  They've had enough of it.
[00:26:02]  Now, does that mean that this is going to be a good thing for the Republicans in the general?
[00:26:06]  I think it's way too soon to tell, Piers.
[00:26:09]  But ultimately, right now, there's a lot of pissed off Americans that are sick and tired of this two-justice system here.
[00:26:15]  And there's a lot of examples of it.
[00:26:17]  I mean, for goodness sakes, look at the day they charged him.
[00:26:20]  You've got intel that apparently $5 million went from one of the executives at Burisma in a bribery scheme to the sitting president of the United States of America.
[00:26:29]  And the majority of the mainstream media was silent on it.
[00:26:32]  So are people shocked by this?
[00:26:34]  No, they're not.
[00:26:35]  They're angry over it.
[00:26:36]  Let me bring in Dave, though, because the issue to me is there's also a political element to this.
[00:26:40]  And if I'm a Republican, there's rapidly coming a point when you have clear options.
[00:26:45]  I mean, you could have Ron DeSantis.
[00:26:47]  I went down to Florida interview.
[00:26:48]  I thought he was pretty impressive.
[00:26:50]  He's a genuine conservative.
[00:26:51]  He's been wildly successful in Florida, turning a 33,000 majority into one and a half million.
[00:26:57]  He's Trump without the baggage.
[00:26:59]  He's very Trumpian in all of his policies.
[00:27:02]  Trump's tried to rubbish him and rubbish what he's achieved.
[00:27:04]  It's obviously, in my estimation, complete nonsense, that charge.
[00:27:08]  Why would the Republicans want to pursue the Trump road to nomination when it's so fraught with potential danger and when he might be the only person that could actually let Joe Biden win?
[00:27:22]  Well, the short answer to that is that Trump does have a certain captivation over the world in the last decade or so that allows people to follow him whether things are working or not working.
[00:27:34]  Look, at the moment, I agree with you and with Ben on this idea that the thing that people are most upset by at the moment is the selective prosecution and persecution of Donald Trump.
[00:27:44]  When they see the asymmetry that Biden and Hillary and even Mike Pence says VP can get away with classified document things and Donald Trump can't, that asymmetry is what bothers people.
[00:27:54]  But on the DeSantis front, I completely agree with you, Piers.
[00:27:58]  We have what I think, and you know I moved to Florida during COVID in large part because of Ron DeSantis and moved my family here and two companies here.
[00:28:07]  And I have a ton of flourishing people that I'm around now in a state that is functioning, I would say, really at the pinnacle of the world for freedom right now.
[00:28:16]  We have a guy who has done everything he has set out to do in his legislative agenda.
[00:28:21]  He has fought the woke.
[00:28:23]  He has got the neo-racism out of the schools.
[00:28:25]  He's gotten the gender stuff out.
[00:28:26]  In effect, he beat Disney.
[00:28:28]  He's doing all of the things that anyone who is conservative-minded or right-leaning or roughly Republican or even a disaffected liberal, which there's a lot of people.
[00:28:38]  I think you're probably a little bit in that category.
[00:28:41]  I think he's the guy that can get everybody out of this.
[00:28:44]  But that's sort of a separate issue than what the base of the base, the Carrie Lake types, who I like how she's on one hand calling you a sellout and then also saying, God bless you.
[00:28:52]  I love talking to you.
[00:28:54]  That they're never going to leave the Trump orbit.
[00:28:58]  But I think Ron DeSantis offers a chance for a whole bunch of new people to come into the fold.
[00:29:04]  Trump, I just don't see where the new people are.
[00:29:07]  Even putting aside all of the indictments and the craziness, where are the new Trump voters?
[00:29:11]  Well, that's a good question.
[00:29:13]  Yeah, let me bring Ben back on that.
[00:29:14]  I mean, the real issue is who can win the independence, for example.
[00:29:18]  I just don't see independents liking any of this.
[00:29:22]  They're all just looking at this aghast.
[00:29:24]  And I don't disagree with you, by the way.
[00:29:26]  There are legitimate allegations of double standards in the way that Hillary's emails and Joe Biden's documents and so on have been treated by the liberal skewed mainstream media.
[00:29:36]  I completely agree with that.
[00:29:38]  But purely on Trump and what he's done here and what we apparently are going to hear from his own voice on a tape where he concedes these are not declassified documents, contrary to everything he's been saying.
[00:29:51]  This is a real sword of Damocles hanging over the party.
[00:29:54]  And you could end up with the most damaged candidate in history.
[00:29:58]  And that might be the only way Biden, notwithstanding all his issues, ends up winning.
[00:30:02]  So why is the smart play for the Republicans not to go for a much safer option of Ron DeSantis?
[00:30:12]  I said this.
[00:30:13]  I don't want a civil war the night after Ron DeSantis announced.
[00:30:16]  And I said, if you took Donald Trump's name and referred to him as Kenneth A and you took DeSantis' name off the page and said, Kenneth B, both of those candidates, the Republican Party, would be jumping up and down and screaming over.
[00:30:27]  The difference, though, Piers, is this.
[00:30:30]  There's a big asterisk now next to any accusations against Donald Trump.
[00:30:35]  And the reason why many Americans then in this, especially in this primary and going into the general are saying, we don't believe you when you tell us that Donald Trump's a bad person.
[00:30:45]  You said he was colluding with the Russians.
[00:30:47]  We now know that the deep state lied to us.
[00:30:50]  The top FBI and CIA directors were lying to us when they signed that letter, also saying the Hunter Biden laptop was not real, not authentic, and it had the markings of the Russian government.
[00:31:01]  Ben, again, I know the line you're taking on this, and I don't disagree with you.
[00:31:06]  I thought the Russian collusion thing was a load of Trumped-up nonsense, no pun intended.
[00:31:10]  I thought the way that the Hunter-Biden laptop thing was suppressed by big tech was outrageous.
[00:31:16]  But ultimately, we are where we are.
[00:31:20]  And I still believe that the Trump route to victory for the Republicans in 2024 is fraught with danger.
[00:31:28]  Final word, well, finally, I believe that.
[00:31:30]  Argument he's going to make is he's going to say, do you believe me or believe them?
[00:31:35]  Because I get that for me.
[00:31:37]  I get that.
[00:31:37]  And there are lots of people, lots of MAGA supporters that will believe him.
[00:31:40]  Dave Ribbon, final question for you.
[00:31:43]  Who is going to win the nomination?
[00:31:45]  Give me a name.
[00:31:48]  I really think Ron DeSantis is going to win the nomination.
[00:31:50]  I think the polls are closing.
[00:31:52]  I think the more people get to see him, get to see the competence, the clarity, his ability to communicate the right ideas, see his track record.
[00:32:00]  He's 44 years old.
[00:32:01]  He's younger than me.
[00:32:02]  He's got three young kids, fantastic wife in the first lady of Florida, Casey DeSantis.
[00:32:07]  I think he's got the right message without the baggage.
[00:32:10]  And I think as time goes on, I think you're right, Piers, people are getting tired of this.
[00:32:14]  That is not an excuse related to the selective persecution of Trump, but people, everyone has a limit to how much they can take.
[00:32:21]  And I'm hearing from an awful lot of people when I travel the country.
[00:32:24]  They're like, we thank Trump.
[00:32:26]  We appreciate Trump.
[00:32:27]  He woke us up.
[00:32:28]  He red-pilled us.
[00:32:29]  But that doesn't mean he has to be king forever.
[00:32:31]  You know what?
[00:32:31]  It reminds me.
[00:32:32]  He sees the writing on the wall.
[00:32:34]  Guys, I've got to leave it there, but it reminds me very much of our situation with Boris Johnson in this country.
[00:32:38]  Look at the donations.
[00:32:39]  DeSantis got a lot of money coming in.
[00:32:41]  Follow that as well, because there's a lot of people out there writing him big checks right now.
[00:32:46]  And people said, oh, he's dead in the water.
[00:32:48]  I don't think he is at all.
[00:32:51]  Also, I would look at the scores on the board.
[00:32:53]  As DeSantis told me when I interviewed him, I'm a scores on the board guy and he wins.
[00:32:58]  And Trump in the last few years has been a perennial loser.
[00:33:00]  Guys, got to leave it there.
[00:33:01]  Ben Ferguson.
[00:33:02]  Dave Rubin, thank you.
[00:33:03]  What a great panel.
[00:33:04]  Really appreciate it.
[00:33:04]  Thank you very much.
[00:33:05]  Arncens, next tonight, the Pat will be with me to give their reaction to Donald Trump's court appearance and the breaking news in the UK on two big stories.
[00:33:12]  That's after the break.

=== Abortion Rights and Punishment (04:21) ===

[00:33:29]  Welcome back to Piers Morgan on Censor.
[00:33:30]  I'm joined by the political journalist Ava 17 and talk-to-v contributor Paul Rohan.
[00:33:34]  Adrian and talk-to-view presenter Richard Tice.
[00:33:36]  Okay, well, welcome to all of you.
[00:33:37]  Let's just segue to a story that's really taken off in this country, Richard.
[00:33:43]  This is the mother jail for taking abortion pills way after the legal limit.
[00:33:47]  She's a mother of three.
[00:33:49]  She received abortion pill medication following a remote consultation during the COVID pandemic, where she lied about how far pregnant she was.
[00:33:58]  And she's now been jailed for this.
[00:34:01]  What do you think of this case?
[00:34:02]  Well, I mean, it's a tragedy, and you can't imagine what she was going through.
[00:34:06]  She knew how pregnant she was.
[00:34:08]  But of course, what many people are forgetting, it was seven weeks into lockdown.
[00:34:13]  Everybody is varying forms of terrified.
[00:34:16]  She can't get any face-to-face consultation whatsoever.
[00:34:19]  And she's made a decision that most people would say is awful.
[00:34:24]  But really, a two-year sentence, actually 28-month sentence, why not suspend it?
[00:34:30]  You've got to have a deterrent.
[00:34:32]  But what's it going to achieve locking her up for 14 months?
[00:34:36]  Think of the impact on her three children.
[00:34:39]  And you might be surprised I don't take a sort of a different view on private.
[00:34:43]  Actually, I bumped into Ava last night and I was all fired up about it thinking, why are the liberal left coming out so vehemently?
[00:34:51]  This is all outrageous, given how far pregnant she was and what she did.
[00:34:57]  But actually, the more I've looked into it, the more I've heard people talk, the more I've come around to your way, which is imprisoning her for two years, but she has three kids, given the circumstances, seems to me too draconian.
[00:35:10]  I mean, even from a fiscal perspective, it's not good for the taxpayer to put her away.
[00:35:14]  I mean, look, she's no threat to the public and she's not going to do it again.
[00:35:18]  You know, she's not going to get any kind of retribution by going inside.
[00:35:21]  Look, the whole thing for me has sort of been like a witch hunt.
[00:35:24]  I think it has been not you, I'm not talking about you, but I think a lot of people have sort of jumped on it and used I've actually not deliberately said anything or even tweeted anything because I think it's a real minefield and I do believe in a woman's right to choose what to do with her body.
[00:35:39]  We have some of the most lax compared to the rest of Europe and America abortion laws as it is.
[00:35:46]  But the problem here is she did almost go full term.
[00:35:50]  And many people do feel very strongly about that in even in this country about this.
[00:35:55]  And they also feel, well, what's the point having a law with a punishment for that law if you can break it with impunity and get no punishment?
[00:36:02]  Well, I'll push back on you slightly and say we actually don't have that easy access.
[00:36:05]  Actually, if you're living in Scotland or you're living in parts of the north, it's extremely difficult.
[00:36:09]  I mean, on term limit being 24 weeks.
[00:36:11]  Poland is not...
[00:36:13]  Poland, you can't have a legal abortion at all.
[00:36:15]  And actually, a lot of women are dying in Poland.
[00:36:17]  I mean, there's an example.
[00:36:18]  No, no, I think you're misunderstanding me.
[00:36:20]  I support a woman's right to have an abortion.
[00:36:22]  I'm just saying that there have to be limits and there are legal limits.
[00:36:25]  And the question then, Paula, becomes, well, what do you do as punishment?
[00:36:29]  If somebody breaks them so horrendously, she clearly has and admits she has.
[00:36:34]  What do you do?
[00:36:35]  Well, I think the problem that a lot of people have in commentating on this is whether this actually requires a punishment.
[00:36:42]  Was this actually a crime?
[00:36:45]  Now, legally speaking, of course it was.
[00:36:47]  And the judge couldn't grant her a suspended sentence because she didn't plead guilty.
[00:36:54]  The first thing exactly.
[00:36:55]  But he did say, didn't he, that if she had pled guilty, he would have suspended, given a suspended sentence first time.
[00:37:02]  So that's like a double deterrent factor.
[00:37:04]  Well, and it's built in within the sentencing guidelines.
[00:37:07]  The judge acted appropriately and nobody is denying that.
[00:37:11]  And so what I want to ask is, where was the public interest in terms of this crime?
[00:37:18]  And I don't think there was.
[00:37:20]  What we have is a tragedy that I hope is going to mean that we now start to re-look at what was a statute book of over 1861 before women could vote.
[00:37:30]  We knew little in terms of science, not only medically, but also psychologically.
[00:37:35]  It's now time to look at this again, clearly.
[00:37:37]  And there must have been massive extenuating circumstances because of the pandemic.
[00:37:41]  You couldn't see anybody face to face.
[00:37:43]  If she had seen someone face to face, she wouldn't have got the pills, I suspect, because people would have said, hang on, you're way, way beyond that.

=== Boris Johnson Parallel (09:12) ===

[00:37:50]  I think that's really very weak.
[00:37:51]  That to me was what I thought.
[00:37:52]  And so there were massive extenuating circumstances.
[00:37:54]  And there would have been counselling provided for her.
[00:37:57]  What a lot of people don't understand is that it's actually not unusual to go five months, six months and not realise that you're pregnant.
[00:38:04]  It's a shock for a lot of people, but actually it's not that unusual.
[00:38:07]  And so that kind of resource was not available to her.
[00:38:11]  And I don't know why that wasn't taken into account.
[00:38:13]  All right.
[00:38:13]  Let's have a quick word about Boris Johnson.
[00:38:16]  Is he finished?
[00:38:18]  Never write him off.
[00:38:19]  He might be finished within the Conservative Party for a fair while, but never write him off.
[00:38:25]  He's just, in a sense, you should never write off Donald Trump.
[00:38:28]  When you've got these huge personalities, you just don't know how they're going to reinvent themselves.
[00:38:33]  And I suspect he will be the same.
[00:38:35]  Ava?
[00:38:35]  Well, I mean, Richard's the perfect person to ask because I think we're all wondering.
[00:38:38]  I mean, Nigel Farage had quite a lot to say about, you know, this possible comeback with Boris Johnson.
[00:38:42]  I mean, you're the party that they would, you know, who would host them.
[00:38:45]  So I'm quite interested.
[00:38:46]  Are they coming back?
[00:38:48]  They're not coming back because we know.
[00:38:50]  Would you take him though?
[00:38:50]  Would you take Boris Johnson?
[00:38:52]  We have very significant differences of policy.
[00:38:55]  That wasn't a no.
[00:38:57]  We have very significant differences of policy.
[00:38:59]  Let's put it like that.
[00:39:00]  Is that a yes or no?
[00:39:01]  It's off the fence.
[00:39:02]  It's a fact.
[00:39:02]  It's a question of fact.
[00:39:03]  It's a fun question.
[00:39:04]  But we do all have, the three of us have, to protect the Brexit legacy.
[00:39:09]  Because at the moment, it's being trashed by a useless existing government that doesn't believe in it.
[00:39:15]  All right, Paula, final word to you.
[00:39:16]  Boris Johnson, toast or not toast?
[00:39:18]  Toast.
[00:39:18]  He's not going to get the funding.
[00:39:19]  The backers have gone.
[00:39:21]  Know the last person that everyone condemned repeatedly throughout his career as toast and never coming back?
[00:39:26]  Winston Churchill.
[00:39:28]  It's a horrible thought that you could compare Boris Johnson and Winston Churchill.
[00:39:32]  He did write a very good book about Winston Churchill.
[00:39:34]  I think Boris should go and write populist history like he intended to.
[00:39:37]  Should finish his Shakespeare book and do all that kind of stuff.
[00:39:40]  He's actually good at those books.
[00:39:42]  I just don't want him running the country again.
[00:39:44]  Sorry.
[00:39:45]  Sorry.
[00:39:46]  Well, he's good at anything that stuffs money in his mouth.
[00:39:51]  On that bombshell, thank you very much, Pat.
[00:39:53]  I appreciate it.
[00:39:54]  And since the next, Donald Trump appears in court and Boris Johnson stands down as an MP, both crying conspiracy and witch hunts.
[00:40:00]  But are they really victims?
[00:40:20]  Welcome back to Piers and Women Centre on both sides of the Atlantic.
[00:40:23]  A reputation of the blustering blonde bombshells are dangling by a thread.
[00:40:27]  Former Prime Minister Boris Johnson and former President Donald Trump both played witch hunts and conspiracies for their unraveling.
[00:40:33]  Do they have a case or are they both reading from the same populist playbook?
[00:40:36]  Joining me now as former director of strategy David Cameron, Fox Fusion Contributor Steve Hilton, and by former Conservative MP Louise Mensch.
[00:40:42]  Louise, I want to read you a letter that someone's just tweeted from the Times Letters page today.
[00:40:47]  And it says, perhaps its most important mission for Eton College will be to ensure that its pupils are saved from a sense of privilege, entitlement and omniscience that can produce alumni such as Boris Johnson, Jacob Reese Mogg, Kwasi Kwateng and Ben Elliott and therefore damage a country's very fabric.
[00:41:06]  And here's the stinger.
[00:41:08]  Sadly, I failed in that purpose.
[00:41:10]  John Clawton, master, Eton College, 1984 to 2001.
[00:41:16]  Wow, when the Eton teachers start distancing themselves from what's been going on, what do we make of that?
[00:41:23]  Well, I make of that the sound of a guy that loves his own voice and somehow thinks he's important.
[00:41:28]  If I remember correctly, Boris, as a young man, went to Eton on a full scholarship.
[00:41:33]  He didn't pay money for it because he was a clever kid who was fluent in Latin at the age of seven years old.
[00:41:39]  And when you started out, Piers, you said, is there a similarity here between Boris Johnson getting kicked out by basically a Kwango who didn't like him, who are, in my opinion, very up themselves and who have kicked him out of parliament in a quasi-hanging question?
[00:41:54]  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[00:41:55]  Wait a second.
[00:41:56]  Wait a second.
[00:41:56]  This Kwango, as you put it, is made up of seven people, four of whom are conservative Brexiteers.
[00:42:05]  Not quite sure how it works that they would be the ones leading the charge against Boris.
[00:42:10]  Well, at least one of them is not a Brexiteer, but is an ardent Remainer.
[00:42:14]  And the others have some kind of personal beef with him.
[00:42:18]  I think we all saw Bernard Jenkin during that questioning.
[00:42:21]  It's pretty clear to me that he doesn't like Boris Johnson.
[00:42:23]  Actually, I thought he asked all the questions I'd have asked if Boris Johnson ever gave me an interview, which he doesn't.
[00:42:28]  Steve, but that's...
[00:42:29]  Let me bring in Steve.
[00:42:30]  Steve, the similarities between Trump and Boris, do you see them?
[00:42:34]  People used to always say they're different.
[00:42:36]  I'm not so sure that difference is quite so wide now.
[00:42:39]  I totally agree.
[00:42:40]  I mean, look, clearly their backgrounds are incredibly different, but the way they're behaving and the way they've been treated, I think it's similar.
[00:42:46]  I mean, it was really striking to me reading Boris's letter the other day that he literally used that word witch hunt, which is now such a kind of key part of Trump's political messaging.
[00:42:58]  If you watch a Trump event these days, the people in the audience behind him literally holding up signs saying witch hunt.
[00:43:04]  So that's very similar.
[00:43:06]  I think the other thing that actually more substantively is similar is that one of the reasons I think they produce such vitriol from their opponents is that in different ways at different times, they'd really challenged the policy basis of the kind of establishment group thing for many, many years.
[00:43:24]  Boris, obviously, with Brexit, where people in charge thought, this is unimaginable.
[00:43:29]  We can't leave the EU.
[00:43:30]  How dare you?
[00:43:31]  Same with Trump in the challenges he brought to big issues like the US's relationship with China, wars in the Middle East and so on.
[00:43:38]  These were really deep challenges to the way people...
[00:43:41]  But is there problems, Steve?
[00:43:43]  It's the similar problem between them both.
[00:43:46]  You could tick a lot of boxes for good things they did.
[00:43:49]  No question.
[00:43:50]  You could do that with Boris with Ukraine and other issues that he did, in my view, very impressively.
[00:43:55]  But are they both their own worst enemies in the sense that is most of the trouble completely because of their own behavior and conduct?
[00:44:04]  It's so funny you should say that.
[00:44:05]  I was just looking up, Piers, that famous saying about a politician.
[00:44:09]  It was Labour politicians in the past, which is, he's his own worst enemy, someone said.
[00:44:13]  And someone else said, not while I'm alive, Peterson.
[00:44:16]  And I think there's a lot of people that would say that about those two.
[00:44:20]  And I think you're completely correct that their own behavior has contributed to it.
[00:44:24]  But again, you can say, well, that's the price you pay for disruptive attitude.
[00:44:29]  And in the business world, you see it the whole time, especially here where I am in Silicon Valley.
[00:44:34]  These great founders of tech firms often behave in really terrible ways.
[00:44:39]  Yeah, they're not excusing it.
[00:44:40]  But the point is, well, that's what you get when you get these disruptive figures.
[00:44:44]  Yeah, listen, I think with all great men, there are often faults.
[00:44:48]  Looking at live pictures here, this is Donald Trump, we think, leaving.
[00:44:50]  Just to bring you up to speed, he's been allowed to leave court without conditions or travel restrictions.
[00:44:55]  No cash bonds was required.
[00:44:57]  He can't talk to another aide who's been indicted, Walt Nauter.
[00:45:01]  And he will speak tonight at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey at 8 p.m. local time.
[00:45:05]  That's 1am UK time.
[00:45:07]  Louise, on Boris, the big question is, can he come back?
[00:45:12]  And I guess the same question sort of applies to Trump, but he's kind of still there, albeit he's indicted.
[00:45:18]  Can Boris really come back now?
[00:45:19]  The party seems determined to get rid of him.
[00:45:22]  He can't come back right away.
[00:45:24]  He can't come back until after the next election.
[00:45:26]  So let's just put a pin in him.
[00:45:28]  But I really think that the comparison between Trump and Boris is ridiculous.
[00:45:31]  Trump has been indicted by a grand jury in an actual legal process.
[00:45:36]  As you said earlier, these are very serious crimes.
[00:45:39]  And the idea that he's being treated unfairly is frankly nonsense.
[00:45:42]  A special counsel was appointed to look into every other single politician that took away classified documents.
[00:45:49]  Trump had loads of chances, Piers, to avoid what's happening today.
[00:45:53]  He was asked to give the documents back.
[00:45:54]  If he'd just given them back, he wouldn't be in a courtroom today.
[00:45:58]  It's his own fault.
[00:45:59]  Can he run for president from prison?
[00:46:02]  Look, if he's elected the supremacy clause, he'll be out of prison and he'll try to pardon himself.
[00:46:08]  But I think he's, I think it's terrible for the GOP.
[00:46:11]  If they don't let go this dream of Donald Trump, they are going to lose to Joe Burris.
[00:46:15]  All right, let me ask you.
[00:46:17]  Steve, let me ask you one question or two questions.
[00:46:20]  Who is going to be the Republican nominee and who's going to be the next president of the United States?
[00:46:24]  Give me two names.
[00:46:25]  Okay.
[00:46:26]  First of all, just want to say absolutely agree with everything Louise just said.
[00:46:29]  To your questions, I think the GOP nominee will be Donald Trump.
[00:46:33]  And the name I'm going to give you for the next president, Gavin Newsom, governor of the state of California.
[00:46:38]  Wow.
[00:46:39]  Okay.
[00:46:39]  Fascinating response.
[00:46:41]  Steve, Louise, thank you both very much indeed.
[00:46:43]  Greatly appreciated.
[00:46:44]  That's it from me.
[00:46:45]  Whatever you're up to.
[00:46:46]  Keep it uncensored.
[00:46:47]  We are watching history unfurled tonight.
[00:46:50]  Donald Trump indicted on criminal charges again, but this time federally.
[00:46:55]  It's serious stuff and this story will keep rolling.
[00:46:58]  Good night.
[00:47:02]  Good