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May 10, 2023 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
46:58
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Marla's Rape Accusation 00:03:49
And should anyone with a charge sheet like this be allowed to run for president anyway?
We'll debate that with a super pack about sense and stars.
Plus, as ailing President Biden plunges in the polls again, we'll talk to the Maverick Democrat presidential candidate who says she can beat him and become the first female president of the United States.
Marianne Williamson joins me live.
And Britain prepares to host Eurovision for the first time in 25 years.
I think it's a load of old Euro trash.
Sharon Osborne and Louis Walsh disagree.
We'll argue about it.
Live from the news building in London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Good evening, Vermont.
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Seven long years ago, the upstart Republican candidate for president, a thrusting young buck named Donald J. Trump, said this.
My people are so smart.
And you know what else they say about my people?
The polls.
They say, I have the most loyal people.
Did you ever see that?
Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters, okay?
It's like incredible.
It is incredible.
And it's starting to look like he was right, isn't it?
The charge shooting against Donald Trump is unprecedented.
Never in history such a powerful politician, never mind a former president, faced such a maelstrom of legal misery.
He's been indicted by a grand jury for hush money payments to the porn star Stormy Daniels.
He's accused of pressing the Secretary of State in Georgia to find 11,000 votes to overturn his election defeat.
He could yet face charges over his inspiring role, or the opposite of inspiring really, but the fact that he encouraged this attack on the Capitol on January the 6th, and over the hoarding of classified documents at his home Mur-a-Lago in Florida.
Well, now in a civil case, a jury says he sexually abused the magazine writer E. Jean Carroll in the dressing room of a department store in the 1980s and then defamed her by calling it a hoax.
He's been ordered to pay $5 million in damages, although he almost certainly would appeal.
This was her response on U.S. television this morning.
He said after the verdict, and he was still posting after midnight, that he has absolutely no idea who you are and called the verdict a continuation of the greatest witch hunt of all time and that you were funded by Democratic donors.
What is your response to that?
Here's the thing.
Here is the astonishing thing about this win yesterday.
Of all the cases that this man faces, all the legal quagmires, it was one, well, let's think of all the prosecutors, all the special counsel, all the investigators.
And what happened yesterday is one 5'2 little blonde, wily female attorney and one 79-year-old.
Yeah, 5'9.
5'9, 79-year-old advice columnist beat Donald Trump in court.
Well, she's right.
She won and did beat Donald Trump.
The jury decided that the man who became president and may well be the next president sexually abused an innocent woman, then lied about it.
Trump did not testify in the civil case, but in deposition videos seen by the jury, he pretty much nailed himself.
I don't even know who the woman, let's see.
I don't know who.
It's Marla.
You say Marla's in the photo?
That's Marla.
Yeah.
That's my wife.
She's accusing me of rape.
A woman that I have no idea who she is.
It came out of the blue.
She's accusing me of rape, of raping her.
The worst thing you can do, the worst charge.
And you know it's not true too.
Trump Faces Unprecedented Charges 00:15:40
You're a political operative also.
You're a disgrace.
But she's accusing me, and so are you, of rape, and it never took place.
And I will tell you, I made that statement and I said, well, it's politically incorrect.
She's not my type.
She's on my type, he says, having mistook the woman that he abused for his ex-wife, who presumably at that point was still very much his type.
But so far, Teflon Don's, again, showing astonishing resistance under fire.
He remains streets ahead in the polls to become the Republican nominee for president, continues to describe conspiracy.
His supporters continue to lap it up.
My simple question is this.
Is this the best America can do?
A fading, unpopular President Biden, who can barely string a sentence together, pitted against a former president who could well be campaigning in an ankle bracelet.
This is America's choice and America's fight to have, of course.
But I care a lot about the country.
I've lived and worked there for more than 20 years.
And its politics have massive implications for the rest of the world.
Surely it can do better than this.
Well, joining me as a political analyst, probably the best analyst of American politics there is.
Frank Lunts, who I'm glad to say, is with me here in London.
And across the pond, Fox News contributor and outkick host Tommy Lehran.
And by Michael Wolfe, author of the phenomenally best-selling Fire and Fury inside the Trump White House.
Okay, well, look, great to see you all.
Michael Wolfe, let me start with you.
You know Trump as well as anybody.
You wrote the devastating series of books about him.
Can he wriggle off all these hooks?
I guess is the obvious question.
Could you see a pathway now for Donald Trump to just barrel his way once again to the White House?
Well, yeah, I mean, I think that the answer is, of course.
I mean, he has done it so many times before that it would be actually more surprising if this finally trips him up.
I mean, I got a note from one of the Trump inner circle this morning that said, we're in unchartered territory, which I think is true.
To be found liable for sexual abuse in the middle of a presidential campaign is, well, unprecedented.
But will this have an effect on the campaign?
It will certainly have an effect on the people who hate Trump.
But the question is, will it have an effect on the people who love Trump?
As so many things in the past that we thought would have an effect have not.
So it is unchartered.
We wait and see.
Yeah, it is.
Tommy Lehran, I want to play a clip from Chris Christie, who may well end up running against Trump to be president.
He was on Fox News Radio and said this.
You know, his response yesterday to me was ridiculous, that he didn't even know the woman.
I mean, you know, how many coincidences are we going to have here with Donald Trump, Brian?
I mean, he must be the unluckiest SOB in the world.
He just has, you know, random people he's never met before who are able to convince the jury that he sexually abused them.
I mean, this guy, it's one person after another, one woman after another.
The stories just continue to pile up.
And I think we all know he's not unlucky that he engaged in this kind of conduct.
All right, Tommy, give me some defense for Donald Trump here.
It's not a matter of being unlucky.
It's a matter of the world wants to take this man down.
I mean, every time I hear a charge against Donald Trump, some drummed up charge, I swear my head is going to explode.
They go after this man over and over and over and over again over some BS ridiculous charges.
And let's also keep in mind that this jury did not find him liable for rape.
They said that they did not believe this woman, that he raped her.
But then again, they're going after him for defamation.
I don't know about you, Piers, but if someone falsely accuses me of rape, I think that it's on and popping.
You can say whatever you want about somebody who falsely accuses you.
Hang on, hang on, hang on, Tommy.
As rape.
Hang on.
Yeah, they didn't just find against him for defamation.
They found against him for sexual assault, right?
So he was not found guilty of the higher charge of rape, but he was certainly found guilty by this jury in a civil case, it must be said, a different bar, of course, to a criminal case, but he was found guilty by a jury of sexually assaulting this woman.
Yeah, and again, the same woman that went on CNN and said that rape was sexy.
Okay, I'm sorry if I have a little bit of suspicion here.
And this honestly, as a woman, really bothers me because there are people with legitimate sexual abuse and assault and rape claims that don't come forward for this exact reason.
People that make a mockery of it, like this woman, E. Jean Carroll, who wants her moment in the sun and her moment in the spotlight.
They go after this man relentlessly.
And then meanwhile, you've got the Biden crime family over there.
Amazing that we're focusing on this and not the fact that we know now that the Bidens were involved in a massive bribery pay-to-play scheme.
The fact that the media continually focuses on Donald Trump and not what's actually going on with our current sitting president to me is an abomination.
All right, Franklin.
Let's get to the polling on all this because it's really interesting.
Because after the indictment over the Stormy Daniels case, which I thought was overreached, frankly, it looked to me like if he made those payments, he was doing it probably to keep this quiet from his wife.
And is that really the correct way to go after a president of the United States to take him down for that?
I don't think so.
I think there are more important legal issues to come.
But what was extraordinary was after that indictment, his poll numbers surged and so did his fundraising.
It was almost like you give us a reason to get behind this martyr and we're going to do it.
Will that happen again now after this, do you think?
And you've got the exact word, martyr.
I like to call it, it's not even victimization.
It's now persecution.
And Donald Trump is the perfect political person who understands communication and has united all these Republicans against those who are attacking them.
And the Fox News host, she did it right there.
But I want to bring it down a little bit because I know what you think about America.
As do I. There's a reason why I'm here.
We're destroying our democracy.
We actually are.
More Americans think our institutions have failed.
More Americans believe our elections are fraudulent.
More Americans believe democracy does not work.
More Americans have lost faith and confidence in the future.
And most importantly, more Americans today than ever before think their kids are going to be worse off than they are.
Pierce, we're destroying this gift that we were given.
It's not entertainment for me.
It's not being a pundit for me.
I'm watching my country, while I'm alive, I'm watching my country tear itself apart.
And the problem is that Donald Trump is leading that effort.
It's not about the truth to him.
And by the way, elections are less important than the future of our democracy.
Obviously, we have trouble here in Great Britain, but America's become the laughingstock.
I mean, Michael Wolf, I have to say, a lot of the world is shaking their head, going, you've got 320 million people in America, and you have two potentially a runoff again between two people, one of whom will be 82 if he wins the election, 86 by the end, who is already showing visible signs of senility.
And the other one is already under criminal indictment, has just been found guilty by a civil jury of sexual assault, has a number of other legal threats coming down the line.
A lot of people away from America scratching their heads going, how is it that it's going to be these two facing off to become the most powerful person in the world?
Well, I hope you're not asking me to answer that question because I have no idea.
I mean, it is kind of astounding.
Somebody was saying to me the other day, well, you know, we always love a rematch.
So is that part of this that we are seeing and we now regard all of this as an incredible show that these are all characters engaged in some kind of, I don't know, media event.
And who is responsible for that?
Well, Fox certainly has responsibility in that.
And, you know, all other cable channels have responsibility for that.
But right now we have a debt ceiling that we cannot solve.
Right.
We have a budgetary crisis.
We have a crisis in terms of our relationship with China.
All of this is having a negative impact on actually getting things done.
But you also, I think you have a paralyzed Washington in the sense that the first thought now for any side that loses an election is how to spend the next four years preventing whoever wins from doing anything.
And this has been going on now for a long time.
And I look at it and think, I'm not sure how you solve that problem.
So you're correct.
You're so correct.
But then the question is, what does the media do in this process?
Or are they playing, as Michael Wolfe says, are they playing characters in this Broadway play?
Well, take CNN tonight.
I'm going to be doing this big town hall.
Caitlin Collins, one of their correspondents, will be interviewing Donald Trump in front of a lot of Republican voters, apparently.
Big departure for CNN who were full-on Trump bashing for a number of years.
But, you know, again, you can already see a huge furore erupting about them even doing this.
But Trump is a bona fide candidate to be president.
Why shouldn't CNN do it?
But already I can see this is going to play out in a horrendously toxic way, whatever happens.
But some of this is our fault as voters, our fault as citizens.
We seek news that affirms us rather than informs us.
We just want to be confirmed.
We surround ourselves with people who agree with us.
You can't even have a political conversation at Thanksgiving or Christmas without it erupting.
So the problem is, and by the way, actually, I'm going to blame social media more than any other factor.
No question.
It's a poison.
And it's time for Facebook and Google and all those companies to sit down and acknowledge the damage that's already happened and address it.
Let me bring Tommy in.
I mean, Tommy, the big question for me for the Republicans is I felt for a while the only way Joe Biden might be able to win in 2024 is if Donald Trump is his opponent again, because he's beaten him once.
He knows he'll get the anti-Trump vote out.
Trump has probably got the power to win the nomination for the party, but I'm not sure he can win enough independence, for example, to become president.
Why would the Republicans willfully engage in an act of self-harm when you've got, for example, a candidate like Ron DeSantis, the Florida governor, who's been very successful?
He's nearly half Trump's age.
He hasn't got any of the baggage.
I don't really get the strategy here.
Well, you know, Piers, I'm not sure.
Sorry, Michael, that was just...
Michael, that was for Tommy.
I'll come to you for a response to Tommy.
But Tommy, that one was for you.
Can you hear me?
Sure.
Tommy, can you hear me?
I don't think she can.
That's the who song.
We're going to fix Tommy's ear because I don't think she can hear me.
Michael, you answer then.
Yeah, you know, I mean, I think what you point out is the weakness of the situation to suddenly posit Ron DeSantis.
And that's the only person that the Republicans and the media establishment have been able to posit.
Oh, Ron DeSantis can run against him and do well.
But everything that we've seen, except in the local Florida election, Ron DeSantis is an incredibly untried and weak candidate.
He's actually a bad retail politician, which is, and against Donald Trump, one of the greatest retail politicians of all time.
That is true.
Yeah, the only caveat I would put in that is that if you looked at the recent midterms, most of Trump's endorsements lost or did badly, and DeSantis was the standout Republican winner, taking a majority of 30 odd thousand to one and a half million.
I mean, he has got the scores on the board.
Well, in Florida, but we've seen again and again and again and again in the history of presidential races, governors who can't step out of their own state.
It's a really, it's an entirely different skill set to deal with national media over local media and local media political.
Yeah, that is true.
Let me bring in Tommy.
I was going to ask you about DeSantis, but your ear fell out.
So we've got your ear back.
I want to ask you about somebody else.
George Santos strikes me as the only person where Donald Trump looks at him and goes, wow, now that guy, that is shameless.
I interviewed him in New York recently, and we had this exchange.
I've been a terrible liar.
I mean, would you be prepared to say that?
Sure.
Like I said, well, I've been a terrible liar on those subjects.
I've been a terrible liar to George Santos.
Well, he's now been arrested for being a terrible liar.
And he's had, I think, 13 charges for his lies.
But he says tonight, I'm not going to resign.
He intends to return to Congress to vote tomorrow and intends to run for re-election.
How is America, again, I ask you as a nation, you're speaking for your country here.
How can someone like George Santos, who literally lies about whether the sky is blue, how can he still be operating in Congress?
Well, again, because I am a conservative and a Republican, I don't stand up for people just because they are a conservative or Republican.
So I'm not going to stand up for George Santos.
I'm not going to defend him, right?
I think we can do much better as a Republican Party, as conservatives.
But I do find it incredibly interesting, Piers, that the rest of the mainstream media chose to run with the George Santos story today, which impacts very few people when you really look at it, instead of running with James Comer and House oversight over the Biden crime family, which I've been trying to address because we could have potentially the then vice president, current president, taking money from foreign entities like China in the millions of dollars over a span of several years.
But yet we're talking about George Santos?
I'm not defending the man, but my God, you've got a man sitting in the White House who has not been held accountable for what his family has done, what his son has done.
I really wish someone would talk about that.
That has implications for our entirety of our national security.
Right.
And certainly, Frank, I was just finally, I mean, there is a double standard about the way Biden is treated by the media because a lot of the media do skew to the left.
And I do think if it was the Trump family that had this kind of murky stuff going on with all these payments coming into the family from all these foreign adversaries in many cases, all hell would be breaking loose.
So I go back to your original point.
Context Over Political Points 00:03:39
Is this the best we can do?
And that the ad that's going to kill Donald Trump in the end is going to be a middle-aged woman looking at her daughter who's turning 18 and asking her, is this the person you're proud of?
Is this the person you find as a role model?
Is this the best person we can put up for president of the United States?
It's going to be asked as a question.
This is not about entertainment.
And my concern in this whole conversation is that we're trying to score political points.
I mean this.
You know me.
This is not about political points.
At some point, you break your democracy.
At some point, the public loses.
Well, I do think your point about social media, I do think it's got so tribal on social media, facts no longer matter.
All that matters is getting on your tribe's side and agreeing with whatever the tribe has decided is the agreed line.
And facts are getting disintegrated.
I've got to leave it there.
I could talk about this all day long.
And it's great to have you here, Frank.
Please come back soon.
Michael, thank you very much over there across the pond.
And thank you, Tommy.
It's going to be fascinating to watch how this all plays out.
But again, I asked the question I asked at the start.
Really, America?
This is the best you can do?
Come on.
Uncensored next.
She's Oprah Winfrey's former spiritual advisor who's making a bid to unseat Joe Biden as president.
I'll talk live to Marianne Williamson, presidential candidate.
Is she a better option to be president of the United States?
Well, we'll find out.
Welcome back to Peers Organization.
She's the self-help author and Democratic presidential candidate who once said she would harness love to defeat Donald Trump.
She believes the power of the mind may have prevented a hurricane hitting the United States in 2019.
She once wrote, the sickness doesn't exist and diseases like cancer and AIDS and other physical illnesses are physical manifestations of a psychic scream.
Now, some of that she's walked back with a history of saying things that many may deem quirky at best.
Does Marianne Williamson really believe she has a shot at becoming the first female president of the United States?
Well, let's find out.
She joins me now.
Marianne Winner, great to have you on the program.
Thank you so much.
So look, I want to start with some of those things that you've said in the past.
I know you've walked some of them back, but when you run...
I haven't walked any of them.
Well, I think you did when you talked about...
Okay, you don't take any of it back.
It's not about walking them back.
It's about pointing out how disconnected they are from the context in which any of those things were said.
I never said that the power of the mind...
These are all misrepresentations and mischaracterizations of what I've said.
If you say I have to walk them back, it's as though I'm supposed to admit that I said something completely ridiculous.
Nothing that I said within the context that I said it was ridiculous at all.
That's all.
Would you say you regret any of those things that we referenced?
Not if you look at the context in which they were spoken.
No.
No.
I shouldn't apologize for the fact that there is now an understanding of a mind-body connection.
Anybody in any kind of a psychotherapeutic situation might say, oh, I'm in such pain, it feels like my body is screaming.
Listen, I have osteoporosis.
My mother died of diabetes.
My sister died of breast cancer.
My father died of colon cancer.
I have spent most of my career being of service to people with AIDS and other critical illnesses.
No one needs to school me on the reality of illness and its ravages.
I am not a woman who doesn't understand those things.
Protecting Trans Rights 00:09:27
You are a woman, and if you were to win, you would become the first female president of the United States.
And that does beg the question, the burning question, one that has tripped up so many famous people in the world of politics around the world.
It's cost people their jobs.
So let me ask you straightforwardly.
What is a woman?
What is a woman?
Yeah.
Well, a woman, if you look at it only biologically, you know, I wrote a book called A Woman's Worth.
I am a woman who was born into a woman's body.
I think of myself as a woman.
But it's a different, it's a different world today.
People can define their sex, their sexuality, binary, non-binary, however they want.
I just know what I am as a woman, so I'm not going to get trapped into any of that.
You know, we live in a free society.
And in a free society, people can identify however they wish to identify, do whatever they do, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.
And I have no problem with that.
What about when it does hurt, for example, female sports people who are suddenly seeing themselves come up against trans women who might be six foot four inches tall and are powering parsimon swimming pools?
That does do genuine harm.
What's your view about that issue?
That is a complicated subject, absolutely.
But there are ways through muscle mass, through hormones, through chemical testing, there are ways to determine what they are doing.
But you can't think of it.
You can't think, though, as a female candidate to be president, you cannot surely think it is remotely fair for trans athletes.
I've got nothing against trans people.
I've always supported their rights to fairness and equality.
I just feel that this is completely unfair.
And trans athletes should simply not be allowed to compete against biological females.
End.
Those situations, once again, they're complicated.
They're not all the same.
It's not that.
And there are officials.
It is, actually, because there are some situations where it may be what you just said, other situations where it may not be.
You know, it's important that we protect the rights of the minority.
It's also important that we protect the rights of the majority.
So those things should be determined according to factors that are agreed upon by the sports officials, and all of the people seeking to be part of those races should be protected.
Their rights should be protected and honored.
What would be the first thing you'd do as president if you won?
One of the first things I would do is determine that there would be an audit for the Pentagon, every cent that we spend there.
I would cancel all contracts where the United States government has contracts with union-busting companies.
I would deschedule marijuana from a Schedule I drug.
I would bring together a group to have a very serious conversation about how we were going to get to universal health care.
And I would also use the marching rights that are part of the Buy-Dole Act of 1980, by which pharmaceutical companies are told that if you developed a drug with even $1 of taxpayer money, which means most drugs in the United States, that the government has the right to lower those prices.
I would bring together a group of leaders who are the experts on childhood, everything having to do with the neurophysiology of children, neuropsychology, the needs of children in terms of health, in terms of education, everything that it would take to have the greatest experts on childhood because I want to develop a department of children and youth.
I want a massive transfer of resources into the lives of children 10 years and younger.
I want to determine.
I don't want to stop you, but I'm going to run out of all time.
But okay, that all sounds very laudable as a, and you rattle them off.
You've obviously thought about it a lot, which is good.
What would you do, for example, as commander-in-chief if China invaded Taiwan?
That's a very, very difficult one.
That's a very, very difficult one.
And hopefully, hopefully, if I'm the day I'm president, China will not have invaded Taiwan.
I will certainly not poke the bear.
I would certainly try to walk back any of this almost Cold War type of conversation that is happening too much in the United States between the United States and the United States.
What if you were commander-in-chief and they literally, as many people think, is highly likely in whoever is the next president in that term of office, if they did invade Taiwan.
Joe Biden has said he would be there to help.
Would you?
What did you say that Joe Biden has said?
He said that he would help the Taiwanese if that happened.
Well, there are different ways.
There are different ways to help the Taiwanese, and I believe that we're trying to help them right now.
And one of the ways that we're also trying to help the Taiwanese is to build better relationships with China so that we can be more on a road towards healthy collaboration, which we will need not only economically, but in order to deal with the climate crisis in the years ahead.
So let's right now work on where we are.
Let's not poke the bear.
Let's take the temperature down.
Let's think in terms of China, not as an enemy, but as a collaborator, hopefully someone that we can compete with in a healthy way.
That's what my attention is.
Well, I say this with great respect, but people will say that's very naive.
That we've just, you know, if you did that attitude with, say, Vladimir Putin, that's not going to stop him invading countries.
And people look to America, for better or worse, as the global policeman.
And if you want to run the country, you want to be the boss, you're going to face some very tough decisions about what you do when the bears actually go and do bad stuff.
Thank you, Paris.
I understand what the role of the Commander-in-Chief of the United States is.
But there was nothing naive at all about what I just said about China.
And the last thing I'm not naive about is Vladimir Putin.
Joe Biden has said he won't debate other Democrat candidates in the primary season.
Many people think that's just cowardly.
What's your view?
Of course he should debate us.
There are three candidates for this nomination.
There is not an enthusiasm in this country, as you were mentioning earlier.
There is not an enthusiasm for a Trump-Biden rematch.
The majority of people have said that they wish the president would not run again.
If the American people hear his agenda for the next four years, and they hear my agenda for the next four years, and the agenda of anyone else who is running, and they say, through their votes in a Democratic primary, yes, I think Joe Biden is the best candidate to win in 2024 and the best leader for the next four years, then God bless him, he should be the one.
But the idea that the DNC and the Democratic elite establishment can just shoehorn him into the nomination is undemocratic.
If you have a party, which we do, that likes to think of itself as a champion of democracy, we should not be so wary of democracy in our country.
I completely agree.
So it is important that the president debate me.
I completely agree.
I suspect he's quite afraid of debating you, actually.
What do you make of this issue of the Biden family and all this foreign money from adversaries which appears to have been pouring into their coffers?
Well, you know, it appears to be, we don't know yet.
The facts aren't all out.
We have rules of due process in this country.
And no one, whether it's Donald Trump or President Biden, should be above the law.
We'll see what happens.
But no matter what happens, this is certainly a shadow on his candidacy.
And one more factor for people to think about in terms of a president whose approval ratings are already very low.
So there's Hunter Biden is not his father.
We don't know.
We don't know anything yet.
But yeah, I mean, this is not great going into a presidential race.
All the more reason why the president should be debating me and anyone else who is running so that we can present to the American people who get lost in all this.
This is what is so wrong.
You know, as you were speaking about earlier, it's like a circus of smut and racehorse and gossip.
We need to think about the American people who are lost in all this.
The American people, one in four of whom have medical debt, 18 million of whom cannot afford to pay the pay in order to fulfill the prescriptions that their doctors give them.
Half of our seniors live on less than $25,000 a year.
We have a third of our workers who live on less than $15 an hour and cannot even pay for a place to live.
These are the people who are looking at all of these institutions and saying, you're failing us.
You're not doing anything for me.
And that's what I want to talk about.
I want to talk about economic U-turn in this country.
Final question, Marianne.
Should somebody who's just been found guilty by a jury of sexually abusing a woman, should that person be allowed to run for president?
Everybody needs to vote for...
Well, right now they can legally.
So every voter has to choose for themselves.
But I'll tell you something.
This is not about...
Listen, people who are total Trump supporters, like the person that you had on earlier, she doesn't care.
They're not going to care.
That's not what's going to lose for the Democrats in 2024.
The power of Trump is not what's going to lose for the Democrats in 2024.
What could lose for us, however, is droves of people staying home, particularly young people, particularly young people who are not going to go to war for a president who approved the Willow Project and has given more oil drilling permits than even Trump did, and who do not see in any way regarding their health care, regarding their capacity to go to college, regarding these college loan debts that are trackling them.
They don't look at the Democratic Party and feel they have my back either.
No, I think that's the point.
That's what is dangerous for the Democratic Party in 2024.
All the people who might be staying home unless we present them a genuine opportunity, a genuine alternative of economic reform and a whole new face.
And obviously, I think that face should be.
Obviously, you think that face should be you, and you've put your case very compellingly.
Democratic Party's Dangerous Path 00:12:47
And it's great to have you on Piers Morgan uncensored.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Getting very interesting in that race in America.
Just on the Democrat side with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and now Marianne Williamson, both polling surprisingly strongly against Joe Biden.
May not be a given that he ends up being the Democrat candidate.
That would be a bombshell.
Well, my interview with Cristiano Ronaldo has been nominated for another award.
You can vote for the interview of the year.
And I've also been nominated for Presenter of the Year at the Trick Award.
So go to www.trick.org.uk and cast a million votes so we can expand our trophy cabinet.
And remember, with every vote, another snowflake somewhere melts.
Uncensored next, a global audience of more than 160 million will tune into Eurovision this weekend.
I will not be one of them because I think it's a load of old balderdash.
But Louis Walsh and Sharon Osborne are going to try and persuade me why I'm wrong.
This is not going to go well, this segment.
We'll take a good long look at our gallery there because you won't be seeing any of them again.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
I remain the only voice of common sense here because Eurovision returns to the UK this week after 25-year absence.
Supposed to be, of course, in Ukraine, who won it last time, but obviously Ukraine can't host it.
So Liverpool has the dubious honor of being host city.
And that's fine.
And everyone I know seems to be wildly excited about this, apart from me, because I think Eurovision is a stain on humanity.
Oh!
Ridiculous.
Now, the first of two semifinals was effected on audiences last night ahead of the grand final on Saturday.
Fans say Eurovision is a world-class festival of the arts, an exhibition of the best that pop music can offer.
Recollections may vary.
Take a look at this.
That last album called We Are The Winners from Nithuania.
The one thing Lithuania's never won is anything.
Unbelievable.
I'm going to bring in now Sharon Osborne and Louis Wool.
Sharon's with me.
Louis, wherever Louis is.
The Peril are going to try and he's in Ireland, of course he is.
They're going to try and persuade me that this ludicrous farce is actually a credible tournament.
Louis, you go first.
Come on.
I say it's awful.
Listen, I watched the semi-final last night.
I know you do, but I think it's brilliant fun.
I watch it every single year.
There are some really good songs.
You played all the bad ones.
But there's some ABBA came from it.
Celine Dion, Johnny Logan, so many great people.
It's slight entertainment at its best, Piers.
And you may not like it, but I love it.
I think it's honestly, Sharon.
I bet Sharon.
Boy, the thing is, it doesn't surprise me you like it.
Because when we did America's Got Talent Together, you always put the nutty acts like that through.
And it was down to me on behalf of the grateful American people to buzz them off.
You love this crap, this stuff.
I do.
It's not crap.
It's not cultural.
It's not cultural.
It is.
It's very interesting to see all these different cultures and what they consider to be entertainment.
And it's very interesting.
Look, a little bit of a...
You know, the worst thing about it, and I'm going to say this is somebody who went to Ukraine to interview President Zelensky and his wife.
And I've obviously done a lot of stuff about the Ukraine war.
I really didn't like Ukraine winning it last year simply because the country's at war.
And I don't...
And I'm sure they're going to probably win it again this year for the same reason.
The moment any competition to me goes into what I call just transparent virtue signaling, they weren't the best act.
We all know that.
They all behave.
Of course they are.
Then it's not a competition.
It's something else.
It's like it's people just ticking boxes.
No, it's people that like other people, Piers.
Try and understand that.
You know the worst thing, Louis.
When I went to Ukraine, I came to the train station to go back to Poland, and the train station manager gave me the hat that the winner of the Ukraine that hat gave it to the train station guy in Kyiv and signed it and he and the guy gave it to me.
And obviously it was the last thing I wanted.
I had to pretend to be happy.
You should have put it on for a picture.
But let's not pretend that that Ukraine.
Look, I love Ukraine.
I love Ukrainians.
I want them to win this war.
I don't want to see them keep winning competitions simply because they're at war.
It's ridiculous.
They only won last year.
I mean, I voted for them maybe 10 times last year.
I wanted them to win.
Of course you do, because you live pretty good.
All right, so should they win the Football World Cup as well then?
Yes.
They should win everything, should they?
Yes.
Okay.
Piers, it was a good song.
We listened to the songs.
Sharon and I are in the music business.
It wasn't a good song.
It wasn't a good song.
It was.
I haven't heard a good song on Eurovision.
Since ABBA.
Since Adba.
When was Adba?
1970, something, right?
Celine Dion, Johnny Logan, Bucks Fizz, loads of people.
Bucks Fizz?
I watched last night.
There's some amazing.
Bucks Fizz!
You're citing Bucks Fizz.
I thought that Switzerland was good.
Did you like Switzerland, Louis?
I did, but I love Finland.
I know he's a bit crazy, but I loved it.
I also loved Israel.
I thought it was a great thing.
But he's good.
He's very good.
But here's my other problem with it.
My other problem with it is it's a complete carve-up where all the countries basically look after their mates.
None of the voting is genuine.
They'll often take the best song and obliterate it because it's not from a country that's part of their impact.
Piers, you are wrong.
The best song always wins.
Always.
Yeah, but the bar is unbelievably low.
A, the bar is unbelievably low for that title.
And B, the best song never wins.
But it's about entertainment, Piers.
It's about personality presentation, all of that.
Well, let's see.
This is the UK entry this year.
Have a listen to some of this.
Yeah, I know.
Instead, I wrote a song about how you did me wrong.
I could have cried at home and spent the night alone.
Instead, I wrote a song I feel much better now.
Me and the governor I'm not.
Just please.
Stop that.
Look, this is my point.
This is my point about that.
That is, you hear that in every Euro trash disco at three in the morning when they want people to leave.
They turn on that kind of stuff when they want to kick people out.
She represents youth of today.
Youth of today.
There's not a person under 50 who would listen to that and not think it's horrifying.
You're wrong.
It's for 80-year-old guys and their bimbo mistresses to go and dance at nightclub in Lithuania at three in the morning.
That's what that's for.
No.
And the idea that you two, who do actually know your music, this is what offends me.
You do.
Married to one of the great rock stars in history.
Entertainment.
Weaned on rock music.
Your father, one of the great rock managers.
And you, Louis Walsh, produce some of the great pop bands of all time.
The fact that you have straight faces as you try and persuade me that this garbage is serious music.
I love it.
Don't Sam Ryder watch.
He does.
So do I.
It's entertainment.
I do.
Are you both going to watch the whole thing?
Absolutely.
You're going to watch it.
I proud.
Absolutely.
Louie, what about Ireland not getting through?
No, it wasn't great.
It wasn't great.
It wasn't great.
Oh, really?
There was a song at the Eurovision that wasn't great.
Yeah.
Piers, there are some great songs.
Neither of you believe a word you'll say.
You do this kind of thing to annoy people like me who have a really gifted musical ear.
No, no, it's not.
It's not.
It's about people happy.
This is why I had to be the lead judge on America's Got Time.
Oh, boom.
Because Sharon would go nuts and put these sort of acts through, and I would have to then save a nation.
Piers, there's a massive market.
150 million people can't be wrong.
They can.
And they are.
The whole thing is a complete.
It's a travesty.
The production is sensational.
BBC have done a great job.
It's amazing.
Amazing.
What's building?
It's not just the songs.
We watch for the clothes, the dancing, all the old rules that go on.
All the cultural differences.
All right.
Just play me a little bit of a matchup that we played at the start, please.
It's the clothes.
It's the music.
It's the whole ensemble.
Yes, it's everything.
Let's remind ourselves of that.
It's everything.
Here we go.
I mean, honestly, in a court of law, this is the moment that Rumpole of the Bailey goes, I rest my case.
Literally, I rest my case.
I've got to leave it there, thank God.
Two years ago.
No, no, there's no more.
Two years ago.
You've had a chance.
You've both had a chance this way, meeting.
Shadow has secularly failed.
It is utter nonsense.
I will not be anywhere near a TV on Saturday night.
Yes, and that's it.
We will.
No, I won't.
No, I won't.
Louis, lovely to see you, though.
And Sharon, lovely to see you.
Always a pleasure, never a choice.
You're looking well, Sharon.
And I know that off-camera, you'll both say to me, you know what?
You're right.
But that's what normally happens.
That's the problem.
That's the time.
No, no, not this time.
I keep it real.
Not this time.
Uncensored X tonight.
Should straight actors be allowed to play gay roles?
Well, apparently not.
One LGBTQ plus, whatever the other digits are, star thinks, no, you can't have that.
You can only be gay now to play gay roles.
To which I say, great.
In that case, you can only be straight to play straight roles.
Guess what?
That debate is going to disappear very quickly if the rules work both ways.
We'll debate this after the break.
All right, I'm back with my pack talk to be contributor, Esther Kraker, and the Associated Mirror.
Kevin McGuire, welcome to both of you.
All right, Eurovision fans, Ardovi?
Oh, yeah.
No, I knew it.
I thought it was a lottery.
I knew you were a colour, bro.
I'm not a kid.
I thought it was a lottery.
Yes.
I was like, where is the Eurovision in my bank account?
And they're like, no, Esther to SongCon.
The worst show in the world.
Of course you watch it.
It's the voting, isn't it?
It's the voting to see if Britain can get it.
It's the most corrupt voting in the world, possibly outside the Politburo.
Literally.
Let's talk about gay actors forgetting.
This bubbles around this story.
And people say wokery doesn't exist.
Listen to this.
Netflix's heartland star, Aidan Marino, thinks it's not authentic for a straight actor to play a gay character.
He happens to be gay.
He plays the first major LGBTQ plus character in the Canadian series.
Okay, fine.
A gay guy should play a gay guy.
He's now I tweeted back when I saw this story.
All right, then straight people should play straight roles.
I mean, it has to work both ways.
Doesn't it?
Yeah.
Or we just assume actors can play any role.
It is.
Now, I understand where actors come from.
If they feel discriminated and they're not getting lots of parts or anything, why are the parts that are like me, I'm not getting?
You sometimes get it from working-class actors too.
If you were gay, it would make zero difference.
It's your ability to be on this panel today.
No, no, I agree.
It's acting.
When actors perform in sort of sex scenes, why are they taking jobs from prostitutes?
I mean, that's the point of.
Who's going to play Adolf Hitler in a movie?
Well, yeah.
Who's going to play a mafioso boss?
What happens with the sopranos?
What happens with the West Wing?
Have you got to be a president of the United States to play a president?
Actors Playing Straight Roles 00:01:34
I mean, the whole thing.
Once you go down this avenue of woke thinking, as always, insanity lurks.
Yeah, I mean, Scarlett Johansson got in trouble for saying this, actually.
She had to backtrack and apologise.
They all apologise.
I'm not being an actress.
We had, you know, Eddie Redmond, wasn't he, who apologized for playing a transgender person in Dane?
Even though he won an actor.
But why is he apologising?
He was great and shot a light on transgender issues.
He was, but I don't think we always end up in a lunatic position.
It's just, it's a discussion to make us more aware and think about it.
That, I think, is not a bad point.
I think that's bizarre when you talk about acting because surely your entire profession is played on being something that you're not.
So why do we have to talk about this?
This person must be high because of their skin or whatever.
And also, you turn on Netflix and they have a whole period series about England back in the 19th century and half the cast are black.
And you're like, you think that was what the aristocracy was like in England?
That's Bridget, and you're quite right.
And by the way, I don't care.
It's a better person.
I don't care, but if you're going to be true to yourself.
Yeah, but I'm not sure it's meant to be a dockyard drama.
I've got to leave it there.
Keep it uncensored.
Thank you, Pat.
We'll do more time tomorrow.
Thank you.
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