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May 5, 2023 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
47:33
20230505_piers-morgan-uncensored-coronation-countdown
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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King Charles Accepted 00:03:22
I'm Piers Morgan, uncensored tonight.
King Charles prepares to take his place in history after doom-laden polls, petulant protests and frenzied coverage of the Rogue Royals in California.
Is it now time to get behind the new king?
We'll debate.
And from Mistress to Majesty after decades as a royal outsider, is Britain now ready to hail the new Queen Camilla?
Plus, he was a 23-year-old flying officer in the RAF and he took part in Queen Elizabeth's coronation all the way back in 1953.
The remarkable Terence Debbie Smith is a part of royal history and tonight he joins me in the studio.
From the news building in London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Good evening from London and welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
The coronation of King Charles is a global spectacle.
The eyes of the world will fall on Britain tomorrow and our royal family for all the right reasons.
Charles will be the 40th monarch crowned at the mighty Westminster Abbey, which has hosted every coronation since William the Conqueror in 1066.
Just think about that for a moment.
That's the history of this great country.
Well, almost 1,000 years of that history will echo through that great hall as world leaders are gone and millions are glued to screens across the world.
The ceremony will feature rings, swords and scepters dating centuries.
Charles III will be anointed with holy oil poured from an 800-year-old spoon.
He'll ride back to Buckingham Palace in a 260-year-old crown on wheels, the gold state coach, which has dazzled crowds and rattled the teeth of royals since the days of William IV.
Frankly, it is what it should be, the stuff of fairy tales.
And there can't be a nation anywhere on earth that can rival Britain for this kind of tradition, history, and for celebrating state occasions with pomp, pageantry and style.
That journey from the Abbey to the palace is just 1.3 miles, but this coronation is in many ways the journey of a lifetime.
The world has watched Charles as he grew from a grinning child into a loving father and a sometimes cantankerous prince.
We speculated for decades about whether the public would embrace his elevation to the crown, about whether he could rise from the shadow of a mother and queen who seemed infallible at times.
But now that moment has arrived and for many people, Charles is not only accepted, but celebrated.
For Camilla, the queen and the love of his life, this has been a journey like no other two.
She was the outsider, shrouded by the memory of Diana, so often savaged by the media, reviled by many of the public.
But tomorrow, she becomes Queen Camilla, and much of the nation has embraced her strength, her wisdom, her empathy, and her just get on with it sense of duty.
These are tumultuous times for the monarchy though.
There's no denying that.
The end of the Elizabethan age, which spanned changes unprecedented in history, is a major test, not just for King Charles, but for the country.
Britain's monarchy has faced the scandal of an errant Prince Andrew, an unparalleled hail of poisoned darts from the rogue royals in Montecito.
But it's still here, it's still strong.
And tomorrow we'll see again, but it's still bringing us all closer together.
In my opinion, the monarchy keeps our sense of nation and patriotism separate from politics.
Camilla's Coronation 00:11:45
It gives us all a reason to love our country, its traditions, and its identity that rises above the fray of the bitterness of everyday debate.
There are massive challenges for King Charles, make no mistake about that.
Will today's young people embrace the royals?
Will the Commonwealth survive?
Can an institution built on stoic silence and illogical birthrights survive and thrive in the age of identity politics, populism and a rage against the elites?
So yes, there are questions about the very future of the monarchy and there are questions too about Britain's role in the world at this turning point of the eras.
But not today.
This is King Charles' Day tomorrow, and it's Britain's Day.
There's been a lot of negativity in the build-up to this momentous moment.
There always is, the protests, the polls, the tales of an apathetic public.
But when it really comes down to it, I think we do love our country.
We love our traditions.
And we certainly love a good bloody party.
Let's do what we do best.
Have a cake, have a quiche, wave a flag, raise a pint, and enjoy it.
And for everyone else, as my own son observed this week on Twitter, you may not care about the coronation, but I can very much assure you, nobody cares that you don't care.
Well, I'm joined now by the royal biographer Tom Bauer, journalist Lynn Barber, and author historian Dr. Tessa Dunnam.
Well, welcome to my panel.
This is probably the most erudite and secondly, the most opinionated panel I've probably ever amassed in the history of this great country, which is fitting for what we're about to debate.
Tomorrow, Tom, is the only coronation any of us have seen.
I was in 1953.
I was just going to both up to see who would jump in.
You're a youngster.
Of the younger generation, Tom.
I know that.
So do you have any memories, though?
Oh, absolutely.
You do.
What do you remember about the first time?
Cramped around the tiny screen, 20 people all trying to peer at a black and white image.
Because TV had just come on.
Just come on, and we found someone who had a TV and it was terribly exciting, no doubt about it.
And Lynn, you the same?
Yeah, I remember.
Most exciting moment was when the peers, peeresses actually, put their crowns on, or whatever they call, coronets.
And you saw this wonderful flash of white arms from nowhere.
It's like the ballot.
It was a certain magic, I think probably because television was black and white, which I think makes everything look classier.
But obviously because also, Tessa, because Queen Elizabeth was 26 years old and beautiful, and it was almost like this, you know, it's like a Hollywood event of this beautiful young starlet, you know, exceeding after the tragedy of her father dying.
Charles doesn't have the benefit of any of that.
He has multicolour, he has social media, he has age not on his side.
It's a tough challenge for him.
What's really interesting, I've spoken with a lot of veterans who remember that.
I feel faintly ridiculous.
I just wanted to try.
I'm also going to mention what you're doing.
I've felt in a Tiara and I feel ridiculous.
How do they carry it off?
I don't know.
But anyway, back to the matter at hand.
I speak to a lot of veterans and they remember that day and they recall feeling compassion towards Elizabeth.
The unimpeachable, the blemish-free young woman, a vulnerability.
They went home and prayed for her that night.
But bizarrely, I actually think tomorrow, because of his age, because of his chequered past, because of where we're at as a nation and our relationship with the Crown, I think Charles is a hundred times more vulnerable than his mother was 70 years ago.
Well, I think that's right.
And Tom, you know, you've monitored the royals now very assiduously for quite some time.
It does feel like a pivotal moment in the potential future of this monarchy.
Well, it does.
And the question really is whether Charles can actually build a reign which is separate, obviously, to his mother's, but actually impresses the country and the people and builds a following for the royal family and monarchy.
And that is a huge challenge for him.
The polls, the most recent polls, show that there's a lot of support here for Charles, not quite so strong in other parts of the Commonwealth.
And I interviewed the Prime Minister of Australia this week, who is a Republican, and made it pretty clear, you know, that they want the end of a British royalist as a head of state.
Well, they've always said that for years and have managed to produce an alternative.
Well, Charles actually is not that popular.
He's only 54% in the mail poll and monarchy is about 70%.
Most politicians would take that.
Well, yes, I know, but I mean, the Queen had over 70%.
Yeah, but she was...
Look, let's be honest.
The Queen Lynn was a unique public figure, I think, in modern history.
It's hard to think of anyone with her, I think, profound global respect.
Yeah.
Really, and a sort of untarnished reign in many ways.
I mean, to follow that is almost impossible.
But the trouble, I mean, in theory, I want us to be a republic, but it isn't going to happen, is it?
I mean, because how would it happen?
Why would you want us to be a republic?
Well, I think it's bad to be called subjects.
I don't want to be a subject.
I don't want to...
We've had to call Boris Johnson the right honourable gentleman.
I mean, we do use titles for elected officials, which make my skin crawl.
But yeah, just the sort of bowing and scraping and general flunkiness.
But here's the but.
I think the reason for the monarchy, the reason I love the idea of it and the fact that we have this royal family is it's almost unique now in the world.
There are other monarchies, but not as famous as ours.
And nobody does pomp, pageantry and ceremony like the Brits.
And all my American friends, they'll all be tuning in tomorrow because they love Tessa.
They love the carriages, the coaches.
They love the military procession.
And this one, by the way, this is a staggering statistic.
So the procession tomorrow is going to be twice as big as the procession for the Queen's funeral and three times the size of the procession for the Platinum Jubilee.
Both of which felt enormous.
The truth is, we're papering over our insecurities.
I'm sorry.
I can't properly face down this man who I don't always agree with.
We'll end up having a book.
Good luck, Queen Camilla, with this on your head.
The truth is, historically, we didn't do pomp and pageantry.
We didn't bother with it for Victoria's coronation, for William IV's coronation, when Britannia did controversially and unchallenged rule the waves.
When we start getting insecure in the late 19th century, the early 20th century, that's when we muscle up, we refront Buck Powell, we make the mile wider, we get all the music, Elga, tra-la-la, and then we go for paradigms.
It's all about Little Britain.
Look at us.
Actually, no, because actually the last coronation came just a few years after Little Britain stood up to Nazi Germany and saved this country and its freedoms.
And I think the pomp, pageantry, and ceremony of our great military processions actually emanated from the fact that, yes, when it actually came to it, Little Britain stood up and punched big bad Hitler in the face and saved this country.
So I don't agree with you.
You can both have 70 years ago.
I'll give you that as a buy.
But I would argue that today we don't need...
I'm going to go with it because it'll look tragic if we always went droop tomorrow and we'd got everyone out in the horses and carriages and there was no one there.
But I actually think it's unnecessary.
We've had this glut of royal events.
We've all done very well, fed off the carcass of pomp and ceremony.
But I actually wonder how will this be viewed by history?
Do you think this will be our last coronation, Tom?
No, I don't at all.
I think that it desperately needs the monarchy and I think the monarchy is very important for the country.
The question is the monarchy is the same.
Tom, when you defend the monarchy, what do you give as the best justification for it?
The alternative is far worse.
Right.
It'd be President Blair or President Press or President Boris Johnson.
But also, you know, when Princess Anne or the King or whoever goes to visit a hospital or hospice or school factory, the people there really welcome as individuals who are sincerely interested in their work and their problems and all the confrontations they have, which a politician will only be interested for their own vote.
So I think there's the whole charitable side is brilliant on the monarchy.
I think Charles is a very flawed character.
I think he comes to the throne with enormous amount of baggage.
But tomorrow is the day, actually, having written a book which is corruscating about him, one's got to put that to a side.
One's got to think he now represents an institution, the fate of the monarchy, and for King William in the future.
Also, in the annals.
That is very important.
Right, and in the annals of king history, he's not that bad.
We've had some shockers.
Lynn, let me ask you, the unmentionables, the Montecito rebels, Harry and Megan.
Yes.
What do you make of them?
Should we make anything more of them?
Should we just forget about them?
I think we will increasingly forget about them.
I mean, I think they've peaked, as it were.
And I think the king was quite right to invite them.
I mean, it would have looked really awful if he hadn't.
Do we believe that Megan Markle isn't coming because her son's four that day?
I mean, I've heard some whoppers in my time from her, but nothing quite as ridiculous as that.
The idea she would give up being at centre-stage of the coronation for that is laughing.
She wasn't going to be centre-stage.
That's why she's not coming to comment.
I think that may be why she isn't coming, yeah.
Why do you think she's not coming there?
I think because she knows that, I mean, look, the latest polls show that their popularity is at an all-time low.
Yeah.
That they're right down with Prince Andrew, and there's a very good likelihood that the British public will boo her pretty loudly.
But the truth is, whether she should be there or shouldn't be there or whatever's kept her away, the optics would be better with her there.
And on us being a- I don't agree.
And on us being platformed for the world, tomorrow the eyes are on us.
I don't understand, given the soft power that Charles has as king, head of 14 other realms, why are all the composers of the new music British?
Why are all the page boys white and English?
Why haven't we lent into these relationships sitting on a plate for us still?
We just take them for granted.
No wonder half of them are pulling away.
I think we've dropped the ball there.
What do you reckon, Lynn?
Well, I didn't know that they were all white.
They are surprised.
I'm sorry, all the page boys are possible.
All the page boys.
All the new music.
Why bring up race?
Why of all days bring up race?
Because what we're talking about now.
For God's sake, stop the diversity argument today of all days.
It's the day before the coronation is going to be an extraordinary event celebrating British greatness and history in a thousand years.
The diversity argument surely can be silenced just today.
Absolutely.
What did we?
Well, look, look, I think actually it's an interesting point.
I wasn't aware it was going to be quite as you've depicted.
Let's wait and see tomorrow actually what we end up seeing.
I don't think you can ignore race simply because Megan and Harry have put race centre stage of their critique about the royal family.
And that's made actually, I think, a lot of countries in the Commonwealth, particularly in the Caribbean, we see really agitated about this notion that the royal family are a bunch of racists.
Well, that's absolutely right.
And that's exactly why I think we should stop today discussing it.
Because it was Megan's agenda and she created it.
And I think that is untrue.
Because if anyone has really worked hard to embrace all the different faiths and communities in Britain, it's Charles.
I totally agree.
He has continuously gone to visit all sorts of places.
And the Princess Trust has helped so many minorities get on their careers, all the rest of it.
So it's just totally unfair, untrue.
The 1953 Flypast Legend 00:02:53
Will you be watching?
Absolutely.
Will you be watching?
Yes, I will.
Even as a Republican, who would be...
And eating Toronation Teachers.
But will you be affirming?
That's the question.
Will you be watching?
I will be 100% watching.
Will any of you be saying the oath of allegiance?
No, of course.
But if Tom doesn't, I damn well will.
He never looks at me.
Tom, when we're discussing, don't only look at Piers.
I'm here too by the time.
Actually, he's looking at the person whose show it is.
I know sometimes you get a little confused, Tessa, that you think it's your show and you ask the question.
That's an extra.
Great to see you all.
It's going to be an amazing day.
I just think we do this stuff better than anybody else.
And we'll, I'm sure, rake over the coals of it next week.
But for tomorrow, let's just come together and let's celebrate being British at our very best.
So thank you to my panel.
Well on sets of next, I'll be joined in the studio.
This is extraordinary.
A veteran of a 1953 coronation flypast, retired squadron leader Terence Devi Smith, a living legend.
He was part of that flyby for the Queen in 1953, and he'll be flying by into the studio after the break.
Well, welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored on the eve of this historic coronation of King Charles III.
70 years ago, retired squadron leader Terence Devi Smith and his team were chosen to perform the RAF's flypast for the Queen's coronation.
Terence was due to fly a meteor aircraft over the palace to mark Britain's transition to a queen as monarch when bad weather put the fly past in jeopardy.
But a last-minute call to send them up was made after conditions improved.
And needless to say, the squadron leader's contribution to the 1953 flypast has not been forgotten.
In preparation for King Charles' coronation, he was invited to be the guest of honour at RAF Cranwell in Lincolnshire during April's flypast rehearsals.
And I'm genuinely honoured to say that Terence joins me now.
Well, great to see you, Terence.
Thank you very much indeed for coming in.
Thank you.
I was reading about your story and I thought, I've got to get this guy in because the idea that you were there flying over the skies for Queen Elizabeth when she became Queen.
And here you are today and we're on the eve of another great coronation.
It makes you part of British history.
Oh, history is.
But I would love to fly tomorrow, but you won't be going up tomorrow.
I won't be flying tomorrow.
Do you remember well that day back in 1953 when you flew over?
Flying for Queen Elizabeth 00:02:55
Very difficult to forget.
I suppose the most memorable thing was that the weather, it was poor weather, and we were just drank about six gallons of coffee waiting to say go.
Eventually they said go around about, I can't remember now, four or five o'clock in the afternoon, and off we went.
What was the feeling like for you?
Obviously you were a very accomplished pilot, but what was the feeling like to be taking part in this moment of history?
Well great honour because it was to fly in close formation demonstrating our skills in front of Her Majesty.
And you'd met the Queen before the coronation actually.
Yes.
She'd come down to visit your squadron and you actually lent her your pen.
You gave her your pen to use, I think, too.
Yep, I was fortunate.
Well, I was in ADC at the time.
Yeah.
To the CH Commander-in-Chief, the Home Command.
She was about to, well, she was offered the thing to, and people were just saying, because the pen should have been there on the table, but it wasn't.
But you came to the rescue.
Yeah.
What was she like, the young Queen, then, to me?
Oh, super, super.
Well, they all are all the royal family.
I'm a great royalist.
Well, I'm a royalist.
When people say, as some people do, what's the point of the royal family and the monarchy?
It's anachronistic.
We should get rid of it.
What do you say to them?
I'd say a rude word which I can't repeat.
What do they mean to you?
Why is it important that we have this royal family?
They're the symbol of everything which is great about England, about British Isles, rather.
We're Great Britain because we have the royal family, I feel.
There are murmurings that Charles can't be as popular as his mother and this will hasten the end of the monarchy.
Do you think that?
It's not a question of popularity.
He's going to be a very good king, in my opinion.
Why do you think that?
Because he listens.
I think that's one of the things.
He listens and he's got the right ideas and he wants to do, he wants to achieve something.
There's no country in the world that does pomp and pageantry and military processions like Britain, I think.
Why He Will Be Good 00:14:49
What was it like to actually take part in one?
I mean, how did you celebrate afterwards with your colleagues?
Too true, we did.
Oh, yes.
We'd been on tenderhooks for six, seven hours.
And eventually, as I said, the Air Marshal sitting on or standing on, pacing up and down the top of the roof of the Balkan Palace, finally said he said that the weather was improving, so he said, just go.
And there were huge crowds, of course, of people.
I guess I imagine, was that the highlight of your career?
Up to then it was, yes.
Did you have something later that?
Well, not to that extent.
No.
No.
When you look back, you have your logbook here from the day, and you have some pictures of you from that day.
Does it bring back great memories for you?
Wonderful memories.
Or any of your colleagues from that day, are they still alive?
No idea.
I don't know.
You never see them?
I don't see them now.
No.
You leave the Air Force and you go and develop civilian life.
No, I'd like to see them.
What did you go on to do when you left the RAF?
When I left the Air Force, went into commerce.
I was company secretary.
What does it mean to you, Terence, to be British?
Tomorrow the eyes of the world will be on this country.
What does it mean to you to be British?
Oh, absolutely.
It's wonderful.
We are number one.
The best country in the world.
Well, I think so.
What makes us such a great country, do you think?
Because we've tried to develop, help other countries to develop without trying to dominate them.
You've had an amazing life and you've reached a wonderful age.
Where will you be watching the coronation tomorrow?
Oh, at home on television.
In full colour, which it wasn't back in 1954.
And not only that, normally I've had a screen about that wide.
Now I've got one that wide.
Did you feel tremendous pressure when you were on that flyby that day?
No, no.
Because we'd rehearsed time and time and time again.
Flying in close formation.
And you trusted everyone else around you that they weren't going to do anything bloody stupid.
And when you finished, Terence, when you were done and you all landed and you realized it had been a huge success, was that a huge relief to everybody?
Oh, yeah.
We were buoyant.
Yeah.
Apart from being full of wine and beer as well.
The Queen very sadly died last year.
What impact did that have on you when you heard that news?
I was very, very, very, very sad.
Very, very sad indeed.
She really was a great queen.
But I think any member of the royal family is going to take her place.
Charles is going to, King Charles Robert, is, I think, going to be a very good king.
I think he will.
I think he has very good qualities.
Yes, I believe so.
And I think Queen Camilla, as she will be, has turned out to be a great rock for him.
Why not?
He chose her, so I'm sure he's got good taste.
Yeah.
Terence, it's wonderful to see you with all your memories and your logbook.
I mean, what was the entry for the logbook?
Do you remember?
My entry then?
Just coronation review fly past.
That's it.
That's it, John.
Very understated.
Well, that's all.
Everything else is up there.
Did you ever work out how many people around the world will have been watching you that day?
No, never.
Millions, hundreds of millions.
Well, I suppose bound to be.
Yeah.
An amazing moment in history.
Well, a great honour to have you here, Terence.
Honour.
It's been.
Thank you for inviting me here.
And here you've got a beer because you did all the great work.
You raised money for the Defence Medical Rehabilitation Center in Loughborough, which is your badge there.
And that's your coronation medal there, which is fantastic.
And this is the beer that the charity does, the Benevolence Beer.
Do you recommend this, Terence?
I do.
A nice job?
And I recommend the...
The charity.
The charity.
It's an excellent charity.
It does cracking beer.
So if you can raise some money, the Defence Medical Rehabilitation Centre in Loughborough.
Terence, great to meet you and great to interview you.
Thank you very much indeed.
Thank you very much.
And what an amazing thing to have done in your life.
Incredible.
Lovely to see you.
Thank you very much.
Bye-bye.
Well, Ansensa next.
She's had a long and difficult road to public acceptance, but after decades as the royal outsider, is the nation ready to hail Queen Camilla?
We'll debate that next.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored from Queen Consort to simply Queen.
Camilla will go by a new title following the coronation tomorrow.
It represents a long journey in the public's eye from the royal outsider, often savaged by the media and the public, to woman praise for her wisdom and get on with its spirit.
She also, of course, won over the late Queen Elizabeth, who backed her to be Queen Consort.
At the start of her Jubilee year, Her Majesty wrote a public letter in which she said, in the fullness of time, my son Charles becomes king.
I know we'll give him and his wife Camilla the same support you've given me.
And it's my sincere wish that when that time comes, Camilla will be known as Queen Consort if she continues her own loyal service.
So after a pretty rocky history with the public, is the nation ready to hail Queen Camilla?
Well, joining me now is the former private secretary to Princess Diana, Patrick Jeffson, and talk-to-view contributors Esther Krakow and Ava Santina.
Welcome to all of you.
Patrick, could you have ever imagined when we used to occasionally chat in the Diana days, particularly actually after the tragedy of Diana's death in 1997, that here we would be 20 odd years later, about to have Camilla crowned queen of this country?
In the immortal words of Megan Markle, love wins.
Right.
No, I mean, it is an extraordinary journey, as you've described it, Piers.
I mean, the opportunity to even imagine something like that just didn't come my way.
I think for palace strategists, the job isn't done.
Depending which pole you look at, either 86 or even 90% of people don't approve of the terminology, the term queen.
Right.
They'll give her a lot of ground.
I've actually had people say to me, I thought the Queen Elizabeth said she was going to be queen consort.
What happened to that?
And when did it become queen?
And they do have a bit of a problem with that.
I don't, but they do.
Well, because they remember the queen.
And, you know, people talk about the queen and people remember the queen.
Trying to readjust, recalibrate to Queen Camilla.
It does seem strange.
And you can ask, did the late queen have an idea in her mind when she said queen consort?
She meant what she said.
Yeah, she did.
It was in writing.
Esther, it is a bit of a hot potato.
They've had a few this week.
The oath of allegiance went down like a lead balloon.
Most people just want nothing to do with that.
But this issue of whether she should be the queen or Charles's queen consort.
It's a big difference, actually.
I think because the queen was so highly respected, I think they should have stuck to exactly what she said and just made her queen consort.
I think you are pushing it with just saying Camilla is the queen, especially because there's a generation of people that really remember the whole Camilla, Diana, Charles Saga, that are not over it.
There's always going to be that wound there.
Camilla was the other woman.
And inasmuch as she's atoned and people understand that people grow and change, I think you're pushing it with Queen Camilla.
Ava, do you care?
Do you know this is the one part of it I do care about?
Because I mean, it's going to shock you.
I'm not a monarchist.
But the one thing I like is the pomp and the ceremony and the ritual.
And so for me, Camilla can't be queen.
Diana is queen.
She will be.
And she won't be queen in the queen.
I think the old queen either.
I do love the love.
But you know what?
I would have loved more.
I would have loved to have seen what Diana would have worn.
I would have loved it.
Oh, yeah.
She would have been worn out.
Well, actually, I would.
I would have loved, I knew Diana quite well.
I would have loved to have seen Diana's face at the moment that crown goes on Camilla's head.
I mean, Patrick, I don't think it's probably breaking any discreet secrets to say she wouldn't have been happy.
Well, you know, Piers, Diana always surprised you.
That is true.
True.
And, you know, Andrew Parker Bowles is going to be in the congregation.
I know.
And Diana, she was an extraordinarily mature and wise woman in many ways.
And she recognized that her husband needed this person for whatever reason.
She couldn't fathom it necessarily, but she said, you know, he needs this woman.
And Diana was reconciled to that largely.
And I think that for her, uppermost, she had a great love for her husband.
And the thought that if this other woman could make him happy, I think she would have made her peace with that.
She would have had her own life to get on with and it would have been fantastic.
That's true.
And I think, I mean, I've got to know Camilla quite well over the years.
We actually come from neighboring villages in East Sussex, literally a mile apart.
So we always had that little connection.
And I really like her.
She's a very down-to-earth, warm, no-nonsense kind of person.
All her family are.
Sisters the same.
And she's been indisputably as to whatever we think of the love issues there, the triangle and so on, the three of us in this marriage.
She has been a constant rock for Charles.
And I think if it hadn't been for her, I would have been really concerned about him.
Oh, absolutely.
I think she's really sort of centered him in many ways.
But also, she's also a very strong woman.
I've often made the point that I couldn't have gone through what she went through and still have chosen to.
I mean, when Megan Markle bleats about media technology.
Oh, exactly.
I mean, it's not even a first base.
Camilla had 30 years of this, and it was vicious.
I mean, far worse than anything.
Oh, it was on par.
Oh, no, you've got no idea.
This is the trouble with you youngsters.
You have no idea what.
I still get messages from my mother saying, how can Camilla?
And I'm like, you know, I don't think the internet will ever recover from Diana.
What could have been?
Well, what could have been?
People often forget Diana had her own life and she also had her own affairs.
You know what?
Here's the truth about everyone involved in this.
Andrew Parker Bowles, Camilla, Charles, Diana.
Let me tell you the common denominator.
They all had a fault wife.
They all had affairs, all of them.
Right?
So the idea there's some angel in the middle of this or some guy who's been badly treated, it doesn't stack up to the actual facts.
They all had affairs and it was messy.
But out of it all, Camilla's retained a great love and good relationship with her ex-husband, Andrew, who'll be there at the coronation.
And I think Diana would have come to terms with this, actually.
I think she knew.
She knew that Charles's great love probably in the end was Camilla.
But Piers, don't you think that the issue here is not Camilla?
It's what happened because of Camilla.
It's that total reset of relations between the palace and the media.
And not in a good way.
It's totally corroded that relationship because in order to reinvent Camilla, Charles's office had to import political style spin to royal media relations and they've never recovered.
That may be true, but there may have been no other way.
I want to take a little clip.
This is Tom Parker Bowles, Camilla's son, a great guy.
This is what he said.
But does it feel weird for you to start sort of thinking of her as the queen?
Not really, because she's still, you know, our mother.
I say, ah, speaking, not the royal wee, speaking, my sister and me.
But she is, yeah, she's our mother.
And it's, I think change happens, but I don't care what anyone says.
This wasn't any sort of end game.
She married the person she loved, and this is what happened.
He's great, Tom.
But I mean, I sat next to Camilla when Donald Trump was in town, and she'd just been with him for the day with Charles.
And I sat next to her to dinner that night, and I won't reveal what she said about it, but she was hilarious about it.
And I just felt then that she could do anything, Camilla.
She's a perfect consort, for want of a better phrase, for Charles.
She's always there, just gets on, cracks on, whether it's Donald Trump with all that chaos coming into town, or whether it's a small, dutiful act of some small charity that they're going to.
She just seems, nothing fazes her.
And that's a powerful tool for someone in her position.
No, absolutely.
I think one of the things that has been missing is the word duty, right?
I think Camilla gives people the sense that she has a sense of duty, which some members or former members of the royal family, I can't say, have always had that.
And I think that's pretty refreshing.
And she said to me, you know, she said, there's an easy way to do this.
She said, you just, it's never complain, never explain and rarely be heard speaking in public.
I mean, I think that was a queen mother template, actually, which the Queen certainly had.
Camilla has.
She's never engaged over in any of the, and I promise you, it was 10 times whatever you think Meghan Markle's had.
Camilla was savaged by the media, by the public, by everybody.
Everyone, like you, loved Diana.
I love Diana.
She was a fantastic person.
Had great lunches with her.
I would speak to her on the phone about stuff.
All sorts of stuff used to go on behind the scenes.
When Harry wants to know where most of the best juicy stories came from, trust me, often his mother, right?
So she can manipulate the media, as Patrick knows, better than anybody.
I didn't blame her because she was on the receiving end of it.
But I think that with this one, I think when you start getting into the blame game, you're missing the bigger point, which is actually they all had their problems.
And in the end, the Charles Camilla love story is a big, real one.
Behind the Scenes Stories 00:08:59
Yeah, possibly.
Can I introduce you to an internet term that's going around on TikTok most under 40s are using?
It's side chick.
Oh, Queen Camilla.
The ultimate side chick.
What does that mean?
Persevering.
It means that if you are the third woman who has hung on long enough, he will change and he will double you.
So what's it called?
Side check.
Side chick, yeah.
I ever lived, have I?
Let's take a short break.
We'll be coming back.
As millions of Brits prepare to roll up the bunting for a weekend of royal further, why don't polls show that young people are the least likely to be among them?
We have a couple of young ones in today.
And what can the new King Charles do to win back the youth?
debating that next.
Welcome back to Beers of Organ Uncensored.
The Royals remain a much larger, respected institution in the UK overall.
But is King Charles losing the hearts and minds of a younger generation?
A slew of recent polls suggests you might.
It's one third of young people said they bat the monarchy in a poll by British Future earlier this week.
Well, my pack is still with me.
Patrick, how much of a concern is this?
And obviously Charles tomorrow, when he has the coronation, you know, he's, what is he, 50 odd years older than his mother was when she became the queen as a young, dazzlingly beautiful princess.
It's a very different optic for him.
Much harder to appeal to the youth.
Yes, but I think it's probably quite a healthy sign.
I can remember, do you remember stuff the Jubilee?
Yes.
Back in the 70s and 80s?
You know, the younger generation, it's their job to be skeptical about this sort of thing.
I'd be more worried if they were all for it.
Well, absolutely.
Eston, what do you think?
Because young people, like myself, we're countercultural.
It's cool to not be with the modern thing or what's happening now.
And I also think the things that concern young people are completely different to what concerns older people.
I don't know a single young person under 24 that's thinking about pensions or saving up or passing anything on to their future generations.
They're thinking of how to get drunk every weekend and just live life.
So the things that concern my generation are completely different to what concerns older generations that are thinking about leaving things to their children.
But if you were advising Charles, right, what advice would you give him about how to resonate with young people?
I don't think there's very much he can do.
I think obviously be an example, but I think that's a good question.
Well, I just don't think that's his thing.
But I think most actually younger people warm more to Kate and William than him, which makes sense because they're of a younger generation still.
So I think he can just do the best he can.
Ultimately, I think when the crown passes to William, it will change.
The dynamic will continue to change.
Ava?
I think the problem that certainly the office of the palace, however you want to call it, has is, well, mainly because of this oath that they tried to force down our throats last week.
Young people are rejecting that.
We don't want to...
Well, I rejected that.
And thank you for calling me young.
Well, Piers, you know, we don't want to swear allegiance to a crown or to people that basically suck money from the estate when we're living in a country where people are actually starving.
I see, I would have flipped it.
If I'd been them, I'd have flipped it and had Charles swear an oath of allegiance to the British people.
I think that would have been a neat way of modernizing the monarchy in one fell swoop, actually.
You know, one thing I have to praise him for, I love his environmentalism.
I think that's really interesting.
He's been right about that for decades.
He has been, but I just don't think we're in this space anymore where we want pomp and ceremony.
We don't want to.
I couldn't disagree more with you, you killjoy.
No, you see.
Tomorrow, the eyes of the world tomorrow will be on this great country, in our capital city, and they're going to see the greatest procession since the first coronation.
This dwarfs anything we've seen since then.
Dwarfs it.
Honestly, it's going to be gigantic.
Where am I watching it from?
My rented property, because I can't buy a house in this country.
I'm so sorry you're not homeless.
It doesn't interest you.
I'm so sorry you have a roof over your head.
It doesn't interest people under 40 anymore.
When you can't afford a good lifestyle, you don't want to watch the business.
You're under 40.
Well, yeah, and I think it's interesting.
Well, yes, it does.
Every single person under 40, apart from you, disagrees with this.
I'm sorry.
No, but I think the politics of envy is not a way to justify trying to get rid of such an age-old institution.
You may not be particularly enthusiastic about it, which is fine, but I do think that the idea that because it's old, it's lost its value is quite frankly a very childish thing to think.
Now, I completely understand there is a cost of living crisis, but you can't say we can only have a coronation when there are no homeless people and everything is perfect.
I think that just doesn't.
I'm saying no coronation at all.
Do you know one thing I really don't like?
The anti-strike laws, which were given royal assent on Tuesday, they're having a choice.
It means even in this country where we have free speech, you are not allowed to go and protest the coronation if you want to.
Actions like that are not good for the crown.
Well, listen, I agree with peaceful protests, but why ruin the party for people?
If you don't like it, just go away.
Go do something else.
I'll be staying.
Go to the pub.
You don't need anti-strike laws because you're civilised.
Some people are less civilised.
So quietly protesting where I shan't be arrested.
Patrick, where will you be tomorrow watching this?
I will be working.
I'm going to be in Methodist Central Hall.
And that's a great location from which to see all the fun.
Just going back to the point about how Charles wins back the younger generation.
The one thing he should not be tempted to do is try to get down with the kids.
I was about to say he does this sometimes.
He is what he is.
He needs to be authentic.
If there's one thing young people spot, it's a fake.
Well, it's interesting.
The other day in Liverpool, there was a really interesting moment where a lot of protesters turned up and were giving him hell.
And then there was a counter reaction from some young people.
Watch this.
There you go.
It's so cute.
There, people, young people, Ava, without your cynicism, without your politics of envy.
You've been taught by their teachers teaching.
They're not teaching a lot of things when they grow up.
No, my 11-year-old daughter is very into it.
She loves the idea of a royal family, a monarchy, and all the rest of it.
Sure, but you believe in choice, right?
And free speech.
Yes.
And we should be allowed to say we don't believe in the monarchy.
You're very welcome to do that, but I don't think that's going to take you very far because young people don't know very much, generally speaking.
It's a bit like, to me, it's a bit like being a noisy atheist.
It's like, if you don't believe in God, well, fine, just shut up.
No, what's it got to do with you?
Because I have to believe that.
Why spend your entire time yapping at people who do?
It's a bit like anti-monarchists.
It's like, what's it got to do with you?
It costs you 1p.
Isn't it 1p a day?
And I don't want to pay that.
1P a day.
I would rather that accumulated money went towards something I care about.
Really?
7p a week.
Yes, I'd much rather that.
Why don't you make it a subscription cell?
What do you drink?
Why don't you make it when you go to the pub?
What do you drink?
I'm a lager girl.
Of course you are.
Pints of lager.
How much is a pint of lager in a London pub?
Oh, God.
£5.80 if you're lucky.
£5.80.
£5.80.
Yeah.
Right?
That's more than you spend on the monarchy in a year.
So that's 80 times the weekly bill you would have for a British royal family, which is the pride of the world.
You pay it for me and don't make me pay it.
You know what, Ava?
You little skin flint.
I will pay your 7p a week for the monarchy.
If that makes you feel better.
Okay.
So you get them for free.
You get all the benefit of the warning.
I guarantee if you had a subscription model, people would opt out.
People wouldn't pay.
No, absolutely.
I don't agree with that.
No.
There's a poll out just this afternoon.
Savanta commissioned.
Nearly 50% of people want to see an end of the monarchy.
If you told people, actually, the amount of money you put into the BBC license fee, we're going to move that to the monarchy, would you be happy with that?
Now, why are you allowed to talk about the BBC?
I don't want to have to lie to that.
That's a fair point, Ashley.
I don't watch it.
That's a fair point.
You're making a fair point.
Of course, you should be allowed to not want a monarchy.
We live in a free country.
The whole point of a democracy like ours is you're allowed to have that view, right?
I mean, that's fine.
You just happen to be wrong.
How am I meant to come back to that, Piers?
If you love free speech, you should advocate for me going down the mall this weekend and protesting.
You know, I come from a family, so my mother counted on the mall for both Diana and Fergie's weddings to Charles and Andrew.
And we had, I remember we ran a country pub in a little village in Sussex, 1977, the silver jubilee.
There were street parties all around, including our entire village, was done up like a big bunting-led party.
It was fantastic.
And I loved it.
I think maybe that's why I feel so kind of into all this because I think it gives us something a little bit magical.
And yeah, they're flawed.
Yes, they've got some renegades.
Yes, we could do without Andrew and his shenanigans.
We could do without Harry and Megan and their yapping.
Of course we could.
The rules have always been flawed.
Henry VIII wasn't a great guy.
You know, he chopped off his wives' heads, right?
So it's all relative.
But ultimately, tomorrow, we're going to see this country at its absolute best.
Save Our Greatest King 00:02:47
Right, Patrick?
Well, yes, but I think a bit of history helps too.
You've got 20 seconds for this history.
Charles I had his head chopped off because he lost the people.
Yeah.
Are you suggesting this king might get better?
If modern monarchs lose the people, then they won't get their head chopped off, but the modern equipment is a great salutary lesson.
So less of your cynicism, more positivity, please, Ava.
Thank you, Esther.
Thank you, Patrick.
Great to see you all.
Gonna have an amazing day tomorrow.
Whatever you're doing, get out there and watch it because it's us at our best.
I'm going to leave you with the fantastic Catherine Jenkins been with us all week, of course, singing what else?
God save the king.
Keep it uncensored.
God save our great king.
God to save the king.
Send him victorious.
Happy and glorious.
Longer to reign over us.
God save the king.
Thy choicest gifts in store on him pleased to pour long and may he reign.
Lord, just save our greatest king.
Long live our Lord the King.
For just save the kingdoms, Holy Us Glory to reign all in save all
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