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April 18, 2023 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
43:42
20230418_piers-morgan-uncensored-beer-v-gender-ideology-ril
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Bud Light Backlash Explained 00:14:24
I'm Piers Morgan, uncensored tonight, as beer drinkers literally blast Bud Light for promoting gender ideology.
Is the public sick and tired of brands pushing politics?
We'll debate that.
Swimmer Riley Gaines was physically assaulted for standing up for women's rights in female sport.
Then I got applauded last week for standing up for her.
She'll join me live.
Plus, artificial intelligence makes a Drake song, wins a photography award, and learns fluent Bangladeshi without even being asked to.
Is Elon Musk right?
Is AI gonna kill us all?
Live from the news building in London, this is Piers Morgan uncensored.
Well good evening from London, welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Advertising is supposed to shove products down our throats.
We all know that.
At their best, adverts make us smile, laugh, even cry.
They make us associate brands with feelings so that we'll buy them.
That's the deal.
That's how it's been for generations.
But there's a new movement in advertising.
They're no longer shoving their products down our throats, just their identity politics.
And the only feeling they're inspiring is extreme irritation.
Well, Bud Light's the most popular beer in America.
And for reasons which are not entirely clear to anybody at the moment, they recently teamed up with Dylan Mulvaney.
She was someone who identified until very recently as a gay man, then non-binary, and now apparently is a woman, and is an influencer who makes kitsch videos about womanhood and being a girl from the vantage point of, to be honest, a biological man.
This month I celebrated my day 365 of womanhood and Bud Light sent me possibly the best gift ever, a can with my face on it.
Check out my Instagram story to see how you can enjoy March Madness with Bud Light and maybe win some money too.
Well that went down as well as you could be expected, I guess.
The response from Bud Light's customers was distinctly unenthusiastic.
And the new Bud Light thing.
I can be this thing, I can be that thing, or I can be anything.
I'm out.
Cancel Bud Light, you see what it is?
We ain't drinking Bud Light.
You can bunk around and find your way and make it through the snakes and snare.
Let me say something to all you and be as clear and concise as possible.
A little over the top there from Kid Rock.
Now I personally think unleashing hellfire on cases of Bud Light with a semi-automatic rifle is a slight overreaction.
You could just choose to buy a different beer.
And as every British person will tell you, it's not really beer anyway.
It's kind of fizzy urine.
But the serious point is that a major brand is once again force-feeding an ideology onto its customers that they don't want to have.
Many women were rightly outraged when Nike used the very same trans influencer to advertise sports bras, even though Dylan Mulvaney has no breasts.
And these are not isolated incidents of corporate insanity.
We had ads which promote Take In the Knee, ads which seem to promote mastectomies, ads which promote Black Lives Matter, ads with pregnant men, ads which wrap every single imaginable product, merchandise or service in the rainbow pride flag.
And whether you support those causes or not, many of them I do, the common theme is a business promoting a worldview that's kind of irrelevant and unfamiliar to most of the people currently buying their product.
The most famous example of this was Gillette, the men's shaving company, which used to advertise like this.
We give you all we have to do.
Control plus with lubricating strips.
You're the best a man can get.
Oh, I made you proud to be a man.
And that was the problem, unfortunately.
Can't be proud to be a man anymore.
Can't be proud to be masculine.
No, no.
Nothing laudable about a man who works hard, makes money, has a beautiful wife, raises great kids, and wins.
No, Gillette thought there was a massive problem with this.
So they launched, in the light of Me Too, a man-shaming attack ad instead.
Take a look at this.
Bullying.
The Me Too movement against sexual harassment.
We can't hide from it.
It's been going on far too long.
I remember that ad coming out, and I've been a long time Gillette customer.
These cheeks, most nights, get the old sh Gillette treatment.
And it makes me feel like a man, masculine, proud to be a man.
And suddenly I had to feel ashamed.
I had to feel like I was a monster unless I could prove otherwise.
Why would Gillette do that?
Why would it make their millions of male customers be ashamed to be a man?
Well, the reaction, as I predicted in the column the next day, was a disaster.
I think it cost them $9 billion over the next six months before eventually they just did a reverse ferret and went straight back to the old-style advertising because men actually wanted to feel good about being a man.
And that is still allowed.
Just as Budweiser, clearly panicked by the backlash to their use of Dylan Mulvaney, have suddenly released a patriotic ad with wild horses, flags, landmarks, and a lot of burly men.
Well, they played with the virtue signaling fire and their fingers were duly burned.
The message to the advertisers is clear.
Just shut up and sell us your tat.
Well, joining me now is political journalist Ava Santina and host and author Leia Halpern.
Well, welcome to both of you.
Leia, let me start with you.
I can almost predict the way these things are going to go from the moment I see these ads.
The moment the advertising companies who are staffed by a lot of woke people decide to go woke, they invariably end up nearly going broke.
That's exactly correct.
And I just want to backtrack just a little minute because you did refer to Dylan as a she.
And let's just be clear and live in reality for a second.
Dylan is a man.
And just like you mentioned with Gillette, yes, if you do go woke, then yes, you will go broke.
They lost $6 billion in their stock price.
And so it's very clear there's just not an appetite for it.
These major companies are so stupid.
And it really surprises me how they think there is such an appetite for it.
There clearly isn't.
They don't know their audience.
And it's just embarrassing that the way that they had to flip so quickly and create this patriotic advert.
To me, it shows they're disingenuous.
And it's also really important to remember that they don't care.
They don't really care about these social justice issues.
They're just doing it to make money.
They're still capsulists at the end of the day, just like all the other companies that do it.
They really don't care.
Yeah, I mean, Ava, this reminded me a little bit of the England football team at the World Cup in Qatar saying, you know, we're all going to wear armbands to show that we're all for pride, right?
And then the moment they got told they were going to get booked, off came the armbands, which made me think they didn't really care about gay rights.
They cared about signaling their virtue for gay rights, right to the point somebody might wave a little yellow card at them and might actually cause them a little bit of a problem on the pitch.
So it wasn't to me a principle stand.
And I find with this, I didn't really care about the bud lightweight.
I thought it was a stupid thing to do because it clearly backfired exactly how I could have predicted.
The Nike one, I think, is more problematic.
Why?
Because you as a woman, how comfortable do you feel about someone who, until last year, was a gay man of 25, suddenly without any surgery, starts doing TikTok videos saying I'm now into womanhood and I'm a girl on a journey to girl to being a girl.
And then does a Nike have the sports bras for women despite not having any breasts?
And more importantly, mocks the way women do sport if you look at it as a misogynist.
That's ridiculous.
It's not.
That is ridiculous.
She's not mocking the way that we do sport.
And also, can I just say that was really rude from your other guests?
I don't know what her name is.
But Dylan, she's a she.
I don't understand why you'd need to open up your commentary with that.
You're obviously appealing to a certain woman.
But she would like to identify now as a she.
Yeah, just leave her alone.
But until last year, she was a he.
But look, importantly, that's a good point.
Ava, it's complicated keeping up with.
You ask me a question.
I know, but it's complicated keeping up with these people.
Like Sam Smith, who was a gay man, then he was non-binary, then he was gender fluid.
Now I have no idea what he is, other than he dresses up like Satan half the time.
I don't know what Dylan Mulvaney really is, other than a lot of women, particularly in America, have taken great exception to the way Dylan Mulvaney mocks women female behaviour because they believe that Dylan Mulvaney is a biological man.
Listen, the anti-trans movement in America is very different to what it is in Britain.
In Britain, feminists claim that it's because they're worried about men invading their spaces.
Fine, whatever.
In America, it's a conservative movement, and it's because they don't believe that these, like, that trans women fit into society.
And it's all out of this pent-up Christian aggression that is quite disgusting.
Maybe this is where you're wrong, because I actually went on Bill Marsh show.
We're going to interview Riley Gaines later, who's the swimmer at the center of this big rather Leah Thomas, who's the transgender swimmer crushing all the women in swimming pools in America.
And it's a very liberal crowd, the Bill Maher Show.
Very liberal in Los Angeles.
I've been on there before and got booed for saying anything remotely contentious that might go against woke.
When I vigorously defended Riley Gaines against a very aggressive female Democrat politician who was trying to say that she was doing it all for likes and what was she doing and got to stand up for trans rights and who cares?
The audience cheered everything I said in response and deafening silence for her.
But that's a tiny little thing.
No, but it told me that it's not just a right-wing thing.
It's not.
It is a right-wing thing.
You're deluded if you think it's only right-wing people who feel this way.
Look, I hate how you've opened up this debate and asked me if I find it offensive as a woman or whatever.
I don't care.
I don't care that Dylan doesn't have breasts and wears sports masks in the same way that women who've had double mastectomies because of breast cancer don't wear, you know, they wear a sports bra as well.
It doesn't bother me what's in people's pants or in people's bras.
No, I'm not preoccupied with that idea.
Do you care that Leah Thomas, a six foot four inch biological male who competed unsuccessfully as a man at swimming, is now winning national championship swimming races against biological females?
I think that's extrapolating the argument.
Do you care?
Because what we're talking about is Dylan and whether she's on a beer can't be a whole other swimming.
We're talking about the whole trans issue.
My argument to you is, do you care about that?
Is she a woman?
In my opinion, she's a woman.
So you compete.
You don't care.
That's fine.
You think it's perfectly fair?
It's completely fair.
It was approved by the board.
This is that woman.
And?
She's a biological male.
Yeah, but that's like saying like...
Who has a natural physical advantage, which means she crushes her?
So does Usain Bolt.
So does Hussain Bolt.
He's a man who competes against women.
He's a superhuman man.
He competes against his own biological sex.
No, but that's a ridiculous parameter to have.
It's not, though.
If you are built differently, should you be within certain restrictions or measures?
There are many sprinters built exactly like Usain Bolt.
That's ridiculous.
Let's go back to Leah here.
We see again and again these companies do this.
You say they don't care, but I'm not sure it's that.
I think it's more that they care about appealing to the woke crowd because a lot of them are too scared not to.
Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
And just to your guest, just because what I said is rude doesn't mean it's not reality.
It's just rubbish.
This is just the reality of it.
Dylan is a man.
He has XY chromosomes.
I don't know why we're going down this crazy, weird power puff girl kind of obsessed with all very well.
Why are you so obsessed with genitalia that she does all the time?
It's very concerning because if a biological man is able to identify as a woman because of how he feels without having any surgery or anything like that, then where do we draw the line?
It basically means that a biological man can then identify as a little girl, then start having play dates with six.
I'll tell you what.
Let me ask why not.
All right, let me ask you a question.
When she identifies that way, it's just absurd.
It's truly illogical and it's a very, very dangerous ideology.
Let me ask Ava a question.
You mentioned Usain Bolt.
What would you feel if Usain Bolt suddenly identified as a woman?
That's a ridiculous question.
Oh, and you know what it is.
Come on, that's silly.
Because you can't wake up tomorrow morning and decide that you're a woman and start competing.
Literally what Leah Thomas has done.
It takes two years.
In the UK, it takes two years.
It takes one year to qualify in athletics, right?
So Usain Bolt could potentially, within a year, with a bit of reduced testosterone treatment, he could sprint against women.
A huge reduction in testosterone.
It makes no difference to body mass or size or power.
But it would change.
It would alter everything.
So would you be fine with that?
If he suddenly did.
If that's...
You respect his right to be a woman.
It is ridiculous, but not for the reasons you think.
Because it could happen.
And you think it's fair?
That's obscene.
That is obscene.
Would you be happy if Usain Bolt identified as a woman and began winning the race against women by two?
It's a major argument out of what are people's lives.
It's happening with Leah Thomas.
But it's not, but what's happening to this argument is people like Dylan are now going to face extreme hate and extreme concern in their community.
People like Dylan Mulvaney are making millions and millions of dollars, in my view, making a mockery of the trans issue.
For all intents and purposes, Dylan Mulvaney is still a biological male.
She said no surgery at all or testosterone.
She is the perfect trans person in your opinion.
It's not a perfect trans person.
It's about what that person is doing in advertising.
Many women feel is mocking what it is to be a woman.
But did she want to be on Bud Light or did Bud Light make the ridiculous proposition to put her on the can?
Usain Bolt Gender Debate 00:05:29
Whose fault is it and who's getting the blame and who's getting attacked?
It's this poor woman in the States.
I don't feel sorry for Dylan Mulveni.
She is laughing all the way to the bank.
He, she, whatever you want to call her.
The reality is the people that are suffering, I think, are the unknown trans people who I think are being exposed to constant mockery through these kind of things.
By the likes of Leah Thomas crushing women in the pool, by Dylan Mulvaney making a mockery of the way women wear sports bras and do gym work and so on.
All of that is unhelpful to regular trans people just trying to get by and wanting to have a bit of fairness and equality.
The moment you try and get a new unfairness and inequality for any group of people at the expense of another group, you lose it.
I don't agree.
I know you don't.
And you're wrong.
Ava, thank you very much.
Leah, thank you very much.
I'll send it to the next.
Is art made by AI really art?
And is artificial intelligence about to take over the world?
Or even, as Elon Musk has warned, kill us.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
I'm going to say the camera never lies, but is that true?
Take a look at this photograph.
It's the winner of a Sony World Photography Award.
But the artist who created it ended up rejecting his prize after admitting he made it using artificial intelligence.
Well, the use of AI is seemingly everywhere these days, but the more it's used, the more debate it creates.
Just this afternoon, a song that uses AI to clone the voices of Drake and the Weekend to the biggest selling artists in the world has been removed from streaming services after singing criticism from their music company over copyright laws.
First, let's have a listen to what they normally sound like.
I guess we'll never know where Harvard gets us.
But seeing my family have it all took the place of that desire for the flow mason wall.
And really, I think I like who I'm becoming.
There's times where I might do it just to do it like it's nothing.
Well, now here's the AI version of Drake in the Weekend.
Talking to a Diva, she's on my nerves.
She thinks that I need her.
I kick her to the curve.
All I know is you couldn't have no word.
Absolutely fascinating.
Well, joining me now is Nick Stewart, a music industry legend and now the chief executive of TCAT or To Catch a Thief, an anti-piracy business.
And from Israel, a historian and best-selling author at Sapiens, Yuval Noah Harari.
Well, welcome to both of you.
Nick Stewart, great piece in the telegraph today, in which you were quoted, about this song and about that photograph.
Really, I think, demonstrating what a threat AI is to the creative arts.
My question for you is: how serious do you think that threat is?
And should it really matter, or is this in its own way another form of art?
Well, the threat is huge.
We're on the edge of a precipice, and I'm not trying to be too dramatic here.
It's come across so quickly as well.
That's the point.
The two tracks that you played, I think people need to understand.
The original, it was done by Drake and the Weekend.
The AI generator listens to all Drake and all weekend and then puts something together that comes out as the second track you played.
So there's no artist involved.
It is completely generated.
So here's my question for you.
I saw you tapping your fingers to the AI version.
Spontaneous.
You've got to stop yourself, right?
It's a good tune.
Why should we care?
Why does it matter?
Why couldn't Drake and the Weekend actually think, you know what, this saves us a lot of work?
Okay.
Two things.
One is there's a British copyright law which dates back to 1988.
So you could say it's a bit out of date and it's been tinkered with.
The other thing is passing off, which is not actually on the statute book.
Passing off has been handed down through precedents, through judges, and passing off is what this is.
Which is why it's been removed.
Exactly.
But let me ask you this: what if Drake and the Weekend, like I said, what if they decided to adopt this technology to save them having to come up with new songs?
Is that possible?
Could it be a force for good?
No.
Artists don't do that.
Even if it was a big hit.
It's a good song.
Well, I know what you're suggesting.
Yeah.
Artists, and I'm sure if Drake was here, he would say, and he got very cross about another track that had been similarly dealt with.
Artists want to do their own stuff.
That's what they're in the game for.
We've had situations in the past with groups who've been doing rip-offs and samples and all the rest of it.
Real artists want to do their music.
I don't want anybody else.
All right, but what about the photograph, which was a beautiful photograph, so good it won an award before the guy who did it said, well, actually, AI created this.
As a lover of great photography, why should we care if that's been done by artificial intelligence or by an actual human being?
Because they've infringed the technique.
It was done from the Getty Library, wasn't it?
So what they did, they went into the Getty Library and they just picked it again, they scraped it all out and up it came.
And they scraped it so well that it wasn't.
So it's theft, basically.
It's theft.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
Let me bring in Huval.
I want to start, if I may, Yuval, by playing...
AI Art and Human Choice 00:09:01
This is a clip from Elon Musk talking to Tucker Carlson on Fox News last night.
Very interesting what he said.
I'm going to start something which I know you call truth GBT or a maximum truth-seeking AI that tries to understand the nature of the universe.
And I think this might be the best path to safety in the sense that an AI that cares about understanding the universe is unlikely to annihilate humans because we are an interesting part of the universe.
So Yuval, this came after he said that actually AI could lead to the end of humanity, as we know it, if we allowed, because it would be a superior intelligent force, which if it managed to break out from human control, could be the end of us.
And that reminded me of a conversation I had with Professor Stephen Hawking in what was his last television interview, in which he said this.
Is artificial intelligence going to be the end of us?
And if it's not, how do we best work with it?
Ever since the start of the Industrial Revolution, there have been fears of mass unemployment as machines replaced humans.
Instead, the demand for goods and services has risen in line with the increased capabilities.
Whether this can continue indefinitely is an open question.
But there is a greater danger from artificial intelligence if we allow it to become self-designing it can improve itself rapidly and we may lose control.
So really interesting that Elon Musk really is now saying what Professor Hawking told me.
I mean, you're an expert in this field.
How worried should we be about artificial intelligence actually taking control?
We should be very worried because what we need to understand about AI, artificial intelligence, it is the first tool that can make decisions by itself.
All previous inventions in human history always empowered us.
They always gave us more power because the decisions were always made by humans.
If you invent a knife, the knife cannot decide whether to use it to cut salad or to murder somebody or to save their life in surgery.
If you invent an atom bomb, similarly, the atom bomb cannot decide who to attack and when and where.
AI is the first technology that can actually make decisions by itself.
It can make decisions about its own usage and development.
Nukes cannot make better nukes, but AI can make better NI.
And also, AI can make and does make decisions about us.
Increasingly, when you apply to a bank to get a loan, you apply to get a job, it's an AI making crucial decisions about your life.
And we haven't seen anything yet.
AI is just making its first tiny baby steps.
It's something like 10 years old.
You know, to really think about it, think about it as like this is the beginning of organic life four billion years ago.
This is the first amoeba crawling out of the organic soup.
Can you imagine how Tiranazaro's wrecks would look like or how Homo sapiens would look like and what we'll be able to do?
Okay, well you look you successfully terrified me and probably all my viewers.
So how do we save ourselves from the T-Rex of AI?
Well, first of all, it can also of course be used for good and so far we are still in control, but we don't know for how many years.
And therefore we need to first of all understand the capabilities of AI and slow down its deployment to make sure that we use it wisely and safely.
You know the same way that a drug company cannot just release a new medicine to the public without going through a very rigorous safety checks.
It should be the same with AI.
Right, but here's the problem.
Here's the problem it seems to me, which is it's fine to be well-meaning.
I mean Elon Musk, I think a lot of what he does, he's a force for good in many ways.
You know, all the stuff he's been involved with is to try and, I think, help rather than damage the planet.
But this AI intelligence is going to get in the hands of some pretty bad people, some pretty dodgy regimes.
And they're not going to have any qualms about trying to get the edge over the West or America or wherever it may be.
That's where I see the real danger is that, you know, a bit like nuclear weapons getting into rogue states' hands, is that once the wrong people have control of this, then all hell could break loose.
In the hands of the wrong people, AI could be the end of democracy.
AI could also be the basis for the worst totalitarian regimes in human history.
Because, you know, dictators always dreamt about following everybody and monitoring everybody all the time, but they could never do it.
Because, you know, even the Soviet Union, you have 200 million Soviet citizens.
Stalin didn't have 200 million KGB officers to follow everybody around all the time and then to analyze all you need millions of analysts to analyze all the data you collect.
Okay, so let me ask you.
Now with AI, now it is becoming possible.
You don't need human agents to follow us around.
You have the AI.
Let me ask you, you talked about it being a force for good.
I just had a conversation with Nick Stewart here, top record company guy in the UK, about how it can be used for songs and how it can be used for photography and so on.
In the right hands, in good creative hands, could AI become a really brilliant tool for creativity?
Yes, absolutely.
And again, from discovering new medicines to writing new songs and producing new movies and so forth, it could.
Well, that was exciting.
Our sound desk, which is two days old today, just crashed.
So that's why we went off there a little suddenly in the middle of that debate about AI as my mother texted me, oh my God, has AI taken over?
Which actually was a pretty good way of looking at it.
So I'm rejoined, hopefully, by our two guests.
Nick Stewart is with me and by Yuval in Israel.
Yuval, my apologies for the sudden departure from you there.
Technology never works when you need it.
Yeah, I don't think it is AI, but you can never be too sure.
I'll come to you in a moment, Yuval.
Nick, just to round off, you were telling me a story in the break there about Oasis.
Tell me what that was about.
As I'm sure your viewers know, Oasis, the Gallagher brothers, broke up.
Okay, there have been talk of a reconciliation, but at the moment that's not on the table.
If you go on YouTube, you will find something called IASIS, which is A-I-S-I-S, talking about a lost album an AI generator has made.
And what's it like?
It's uncannily good.
Right.
So if you're an OASI fan, why would you not want that?
No, well, the answer is, yes, you would.
And so, but I mean, in terms of bans that have ceased to, I mean, would people go down the route of trying to AI?
We've got a bit of it here, I think.
I mean, it is fascinating.
Let's go to Yuval finally.
Yuval, give us, end on some hope here for us, all right?
I need to feel more hopeful than I do right now, which is I basically think the world's going to end quite soon when these, when Terminator comes real.
Do you believe that the planet has the right people in the right place to actually stop that happening?
I hope so.
What we know about technology, that you can use the same technology to build completely different societies.
In the 20th century, some people used trains and radio and electricity to build totalitarian regimes like the Soviet Union, and other people used exactly the same technology to build liberal democracies.
It's the same with AI and with the technologies of the 21st century.
We still have a choice about how to employ them.
I think that AI is nowhere near its full potential.
But also human beings are nowhere near our full potential.
We don't really understand the full potential of our brains, of our minds.
If we invest, if for every dollar and every minute that we invest in developing AI, we'll invest another dollar and minute in developing our own mind and our own consciousness, I think we'll be okay.
Fascinating.
Yuval, Noah Harari, thank you so much.
Women's Rights vs Opportunities 00:07:35
Honestly, a gripping interview.
Apologies for the interruption.
There was a bit of drama.
It always goes down quite well.
Oh, what's happened?
Next to it, great to see you.
Thank you very much indeed.
Well, Simmo Riley Gaines made global headlines when she tied with athlete Leah Thomas, who's a transgender swimmer.
This is the person, of course, who's been dominating now women's swimming in America, despite having competed unsuccessfully as a biological male.
Well, unlike many people in the same position, afraid of vilification, abuse, and cancellation, Riley spoke out of that.
She took a stand for women's athletes across the world.
And as a result of that stand, she was last week physically assaulted and abused and howled at after being invited to speak at San Francisco State University.
Well, this weekend, I spoke up for Riley Gaines in a debate on Bill Maher's HBO show, Real Time, while debating a Democratic congresswoman, Katie Porter.
We talked about people, you know, becoming, using things to kind of get likes and get clicks.
That's not what she's doing.
I mean, I've got no truck for Riley Gaines personally, but all I've seen her do is stand up for women's rights to fairness and equality.
She actually competed against Leah Thomas, and it was obviously unfair.
Leah Thomas won one of the races in the NCAA championships by 50 seconds against a bunch of biological females who simply couldn't keep up.
That cannot be right.
It cannot be fair.
That is something that I trust.
I think our sporting bodies should be dealing with.
And by the way, Riley is speaking up for herself, and that is her prerogative.
And I respect her free speech.
I think she's speaking up for pretty much every female athlete in the world.
Now, that debate was astonishing on several levels.
Firstly, that it fell to me and Bill Maher to defend women's rights against a woman arguing against them.
And secondly, that the audience, packed with liberal Californians, a pretty woke crowd normally, were watching a famous liberal comedian and sided overwhelmingly with Bill and me defending Riley Gaines and women's rights to fairness.
So I'm joined now by Riley Gaines.
So Riley, great to see you.
I don't know whether you got a chance to actually watch what went down on the Bill Marshall, but it was fascinating to see the audience reaction because they completely agreed with me when I defended you and did not agree with the woman in the room.
Absolutely.
When I watched this back, you just can't help but laugh.
Just like you mentioned, it's ironic.
It's always women fighting against women's sex protected spaces and rights.
It blows my mind, but I so appreciate both you and Bill standing up for myself because you hit the nail on the head.
I'm speaking for every female athlete, not just myself.
I'm done competing.
This isn't about me, but I know what's at stake if someone doesn't use their voice.
I have a younger sister.
I just got married.
I can only hope one day that I have a daughter.
And I can't imagine being in this position and not fighting for them.
But also, I'm fighting for the present female athletes, Leah Thomas' teammates even, who have their voices suppressed.
They see what happens to me when I go to San Francisco State and they don't want to put themselves in a position where speaking out would garner that for them.
Right.
So it's a lot bigger than just myself.
And to see Representative Katie Porter even say that, it just, it clearly shows she knows nothing about what I've been doing this past year.
Nothing has been for personal advancement.
Nothing has been for monetary value for me.
I was supposed to be in dental school this year.
So by no means did I even feel equipped to do what I'm doing.
This is not about me.
And hearing her say that showed her true ignorance.
Yeah, I completely, I completely agree.
And in fact, Leah Thomas today tweeted the following.
It breaks my heart to see trans kids across the country lose out on these opportunities.
During a time of anti-trans backlash, the trans community needs explicit protections from discrimination in order to live our lives free and equally.
All trans kids deserve the opportunity to compete and play on the sports they love without compromising who they are.
Now, my problem with that, and I think you picked up on this as well in your response to Leah Thomas, is, well, what about fairness and equality for the women, for biological females?
Because clearly what Leah Thomas, a six foot four inch biological male who did not compete successfully against men, but is now demolishing women in national championships, clearly that is unfair.
Now, I want trans athletes to have fairness and equality.
I want them to be able to play sport, but not at the expense of women's rights.
Exactly.
The first sentence you said, I believe it was Leah Thomas quoted saying, you know, it breaks my heart to see trans kids lose out on opportunities.
You're exactly right.
Replace that with the word woman.
Does it still break Thomas's heart to see women lose out on opportunities?
Because that's exactly what's happening.
From my experience competing against Leah Thomas at the national championships, I watch firsthand women lose out on opportunities.
I watch women not become all-Americans, missing that ninth or that eighth and 16th place by one place because they were displaced by a male.
This, of course, goes against everything that Title IX was created to protect.
And now we have the Biden administration, the people in the White House who are actively working to rewrite Title IX.
And Title IX, for those who don't know, originated in the 70s, was designed to bring equality and fairness, irrespective of gender, to schools and education, and in particular, to school sport.
And clearly, that is now not happening.
And the Biden administration are effectively endorsing this unfairness.
Absolutely.
That's exactly what they're doing.
Title IX, it's a civil federal rights law that ensures women essentially have the same opportunities as men, whether that be athletically, academically, the same amount of scholarships.
We saw women fight for this in the 70s.
We saw someone as amazing as Billie Jean King, Megan Rapino, these are feminists who fought for women's rights.
But now both of these women, along with the Biden administration, they're actively working to undermine everything they once fought for.
Megan Rapino was out there tweeting away that, you know, this is all fantastic.
And of course, trans athletes should be doing this.
And I made the point, how would she have felt if she'd lost her place in a national women's soccer team, which was obviously they were world champions, to a trans athlete who was five inches taller, stronger, faster, and much better at football, but who had been unsuccessful playing in a men's team.
How would she have felt then?
Well, if you've ever seen Megan Rapino play, she's a very tough, aggressive player.
So I can tell you exactly what I think she would have done.
I think she genuinely would have shivved someone who tried to take her spot, a male who tried to take her spot.
And I think it's worth mentioning that she's done playing.
She has nothing to lose.
She doesn't have a daughter to defend.
So for her, what to lose by almost virtue signaling, by coming off as kind and inclusive and welcoming and accepting and tolerant and loving and all the things.
But in reality, it's not kind to ask a girl to share a locker room with a man who's fully equipped with and exposing male parts.
And it's not inclusive to ask a woman to smile and step aside on the podium so a man can take her trophy and take her spot in her honors.
Yeah, I just find this whole debate completely baffling.
I don't understand why every woman in the world wouldn't join together and say this is outrageous.
And it's the treachery from women like the Democrat Congresswoman Katie Porter, like Megan Rapino, like these others who should be doing a lot better than they are.
Terrifying Social Changes Now 00:05:57
But you know what?
A lot of women are scared.
They're scared to do what you've done.
You know, you went to San Francisco State University and you're in fear of your life with that mob and it was terrifying.
Absolutely.
It sure was.
I was essentially, I mean, I know you saw the video, but I was physically assaulted and I was held for ransom for three hours.
I mean, these people who barricaded me in this room, they were demanding money if I wanted to make it home safely, which then the dean of students was actually negotiating with them.
It's like, well, you know, why are we negotiating my safe passage home?
This is crazy.
But you're exactly right.
These girls, they're terrified.
They're scared.
Parents are even scared.
They don't want to lose their job.
Coaches, athletic directors, no one wants to be in a position where you ruffle feathers or step on toes, but that's what it's going to take.
It's going to take sacrifices.
It's going to take girls not willing to get up on that starting block, not jump when the gun blows.
We need people who are willing to take that next step.
And I know it's unfortunate that it's come to this circumstances to have to make change, but that's what it's going to take.
Riley, you're a gutsy woman.
I've got to tell you, I've got great admiration for you and what you go through to make this point because it's so important.
It's basically the integrity of women's sport is at risk, real risk of being irrevocably destroyed.
And I think that people like you should just be applauded by women around the world for making a stand you're doing a great personal risk to yourself.
So well done to you.
Keep it going.
And you'll always have me in your corner.
Of course.
Thank you so much, Piers.
All the best.
Thanks, Riley.
Extraordinary to be having this debate, isn't it?
Isn't it?
Just cannot get my head around it.
Obviously, it's unfair.
Well, on sense of next, my pack, you'll be waiting patiently.
Hopefully AI won't strike them down.
But actually, maybe AI could replace them.
Might be cheaper.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
I'm joined now by talk-to-view contributor Paula Roan-Adrian and talk-to-view presenter Richard Tyson.
Welcome to both of you.
Thank you.
It's been an interesting evening in many ways.
This whole issue of transgenderism seems to be just dominating the global debate right now in all different ways.
What did you make of that interview with Riley Gaines there?
As you say, I mean, she is remarkably brave, but the grief that people are now getting, anybody who wants to talk about this stuff, how many sexes there are, how many genders there are, what trans women can and can't do, is it's actually terrifying.
Just this week, I was taken down by TikTok for suggesting there are two sexes, two genders.
They said that was hate speech and inciting violence.
And that's the problem is we've lost any respect for the alternative opinion.
This comes to my general belief that democratic debate is getting killed.
What's the solution to this?
The solution to this is, and I appreciate that this probably sounds really pretty, but the solution to this is programmes like this, teaching people that it is possible to sit at a table with people that you probably wouldn't do normally, but to engage in intelligent conversations.
Right, I agree, but don't we have to start with some basic respect for scientific facts?
This whole trans debate, it seems to me, comes down to whether you believe or not that biological sex is irrefutable, that you are either born male or female.
And I think if you don't sign up to that, then you're basically a denier of scientific facts.
If we lived our lives on the basis of scientific fact, we wouldn't be the human beings that we are.
It is a very emotive topic, and that is a lot of people.
You can't feel comfortable seeing six foot four inch biological males dominating women in sport, surely.
I do think that sport is a category that needs to be considered.
But when we're talking about other aspects of our daily life, it worries me that there is this level of discrimination.
Okay, well, what about this issue of the WI, right?
Who William Hager said that they've got to accept transgender members?
This is what he said on Times Radio.
There are transgender people.
They have changed their gender.
This is part of our society now.
And I think large national organisations like the WI have to get over that and get used to that.
Richard?
He's completely wrong.
It's utter nonsense.
Richard.
Seriously.
Do you know how hard it is to be a woman?
No, you don't.
Which is what you're saying.
Do you think you would choose to be a woman?
I just want to let you into his little secret here, guys.
It's not easy being a woman.
It's not easy being a man.
But that's why you shouldn't be.
Do you think it's easy being a man right now?
I bet you differ.
I think if you are going to choose to be a woman, in the women's institution, if you choose to be a woman, you're going to go through what could be very, very painful operations.
You are going to change your life so that society is not a problem.
You've just agreed with me.
Women feel so offended.
They feel demeaning again.
I want people who want to support women, to be part of the female fight.
And if that includes a transgender person, why not?
The clues in the name, women's institutes.
You can have a trans women's institute if you want.
Why do we need a trans woman institute?
What about a trans male institute?
I do, actually.
I don't want to have women, but I'm not sure.
I've talked about this a bit a lot.
I do feel what is wrong with actually being a trans woman and calling yourself that and accepting you're not a biological female, you're a trans woman.
Exactly.
And celebrating that.
Exactly.
But not diminishing women's rights or women's institutions, frankly, if they want to have that.
Fine, let them.
I don't think we should be forcing these things on people.
I think that's the way you alienate people.
Piers PAC Robot Future 00:01:14
Talk about AI.
I found that interview with Yuval Noah Harare pretty terrifying.
Utterly terrifying.
I mean, I was learning.
Especially following Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking.
I mean, the idea, and from what Professor Stephen Hawking said, people are now saying that actually, if this gets out of control, it could end the human race.
I mean, it is out of control, isn't it?
When that guy said this is like an amoeba, and we're heading towards T-Rates.
Description was truly terrifying.
And we've got to get on top of this urgently and essentially sort of understand what we're doing.
I have to say, we are looking into having a Piers PAC, which is basically robots.
It will fail.
And they get trained to say, Piers, I completely agree with you.
They'll look and sound exactly like Paula.
And that's how we know LB AI.
That's when we know the end of the world is not.
They couldn't do you though, Piers.
That's beyond the limits.
I think I'm beyond the robot.
I like to think I am because if I'm not, we're all screwed, right?
Unfortunately, the show is screwed because we lost a few minutes to what we think was an AI attack on our sound deck.
But thank you, Pat, and we'll give you more time next time if the robots led you.
That's it from me tonight.
Whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored and stay away from robots.
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