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March 22, 2023 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
47:17
20230322_piers-morgan-uncensored-martina-navratilova-exclus
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Double Cancer Diagnosis 00:08:20
Good evening from Miami in Florida where I just finished a remarkable interview with tennis icon Martina Navratilova about her double cancer diagnosis.
So I was in a total panic for three days thinking I may not see next Christmas.
Throat cancer and breast cancer.
Who has two cancers at the same time?
I was maybe an underachiever but this is getting ridiculous.
We sat down just days after she completed her final course of chemotherapy.
She got that bell which said that it's all over at least for now.
To go through it and then to watch it back and to feel that emotion see.
You know so when you're going through that you have tears of feeling sorry for yourself.
This tear was just happiness.
And she talked about the remarkable support she's had from the tennis community, especially Chris Evett, who herself battled cancer.
You were both treated in the same thing.
I can't make it out.
It just can't be your great rival.
The parallels are unbelievable.
And at the end I was joined by her beautiful wife, Julia.
Would you say all those same things about Julia or Julia?
It took me a little bit.
My heart's broken.
And the two of them talked about their new plans for the future.
What do you think of that?
Why not?
Scuba diamonding?
Marscubadaing?
I'm scared of starts.
And the plans that they've had to leave behind.
We were waiting for Funkel to welcome a child home and then we were fighting to cancer shit.
So here is my world exclusive interview with Martina Navratilova.
As she said, she's one hell of a fighter.
Martina!
It's great to see you.
Nice to see you.
How are you?
Well, you know what makes what chemo does to you is you feel so horrible that after you start recovering you feel better every single day, but you still feel like crap.
So that's when you realize how many levels of crap there are until you start feeling semi-normal.
So I'm semi-normal now, but the leftovers are still there.
It's been, I mean, a very unpleasant experience for you.
It's not your first time that you've had to go through a battle with cancer.
How has it been different if it has this time?
Well, so the first time it happened was 13 years ago and it was DCIS, Ductus Carcinoma Insitu, which means it could turn into cancer, but it's kind of pre-cancer situation, but you still have to do the radiation, etc.
So it was a shock to the system.
But compared to when I got this diagnosis, that was piece of cake.
That was like a non-issue because this one, at first, when the doctor told me that I had cancer, squamous cell carcinoma in the throat, and then he says, and by the way, we don't know where it's coming from.
We need to find out it could be the lungs or the liver or the kidneys.
End of story.
So this is Friday afternoon when I got the news.
Had you gone in for a routine check?
No, no, no.
So we found it when I had, I noticed that my left lymph node was enlarged and I thought it was from a shingle shot that I just had vaccine like a week before.
And I thought it was maybe from that.
But then a couple of weeks when it didn't go down, I called the doctor and he ordered a biopsy.
Were you feeling after a couple of weeks, were you feeling a sense of foreboding about it?
It wasn't going down?
Well, sense of foreboding, when I asked the doctor, what do you think the chances are?
He says, about 50-50.
I'm like, I don't like those odds.
So that's when I thought, because the lymph nodes don't get swelled up for no reason.
And so I didn't have a good feeling about it at that point.
So I'm thinking it could be the brain, it could be the pancreas.
Labor is not a good thing either.
Neither is lungs.
So I was in a total panic for three days thinking, I may not see next Christmas.
Wow, that must have been so.
So I had three horrible nights.
I'm like, he needed to find out.
So Monday morning, I'd speak to an oncologist and he says, oh, it's for sure coming from the throat.
And it's P16, which is extremely treatable and 95% full recovery.
So big, big relief.
But, you know, so emotionally, it's been up and down because of what the doctor initially told me.
When you first had the test, what was the first cancer detected?
The breast cancer or the throat cancer?
No, the throat cancer.
It was the first thing it detected.
Yeah, so what they do, they know it's cancer, they know it's in the throat, but they don't know where.
So then you do a PET scan and where you don't eat, and then they give you glucose, and then the cancer sucks the glucose.
So that's where they know where the cancer is.
So that's when they see exactly where it is in the throat.
And my right breast lit up as well.
Literally.
Literally, well, the cancer lights up.
It goes red.
And this was the other breast to the one that you had the first time.
The first one was on the left, lumpectomy, and took out some lymph nodes.
And the right one is different cancer, similar area, but this was a real actual real tumor that was seven, eight millimeters.
So they caught it so early that they did not see it on the mammogram, which I just had.
You're a famously tough athlete.
You don't get to win 59 Grand Slam titles without being a tough cookie.
And you'd been through an earlier bout of cancer.
But even for you, with your mentality, to be told you've got throat cancer and breast cancer, and it's in the other breast to the one that you had treated last time.
That is a massive moment in your life to deal with.
It was because, again, very up and down, right?
So I find out it's the throat cancer, think I could be dying, but I find out, no, it's very treatable.
Then they found the right breast, and when I had the biopsy on the right breast, the doctor was saying, this doesn't look great.
And that's when she said that.
I'm like, oh, great.
I have another cancer.
That's when I started crying on the table as she's still poking in there, getting samples out of my boob.
I'm like, oh, great.
I have two cancers at the same time that are not related.
I knew that.
No connection at all.
Who does that?
Who has two cancers at the same time?
I'm like, I was never an under-achiever, but this is getting ridiculous.
Following in Chris Ever's footsteps, who went through cancer a year before, we ended up being in the same place in New York, sloan catering.
You were both treated in the same cancer.
I just can't make it out.
It just can't make me.
Your great rival.
The parallels are unbelievable with the two of us.
That's extraordinary.
Because she had ovarian cancer at the start of 2022.
So you both end up being treated in the same place.
Same place, same people, some of the same nurses that were giving me cisplatin.
She was getting some other chemotherapy drug, but same place.
We rang the same bell.
That's amazing.
Yeah, she grew up in Fort Audrey.
Now lives in Boca.
I live in Miami.
We both had a place in Aspen.
Of course, the careers are always intertwined.
And then we follow each other this way.
She was on Saturday Night Live years ago when she retired and did a skit about how competitive we were.
And I'm like, this is the kind of competition we don't really want.
But I must say, Chris has been just a stalwart.
She has supported me so much through this as I supported her a year ago.
Little did I know that it was going to be reciprocated in this manner.
But she's been great.
The moment you know you have both cancers, you say you've got very emotional.
But is that a moment, you know, people talk about their life flashing before them?
You said the first time this happened to you that because you were so young and so healthy, you were very positive and came through it.
It's probably a bit tougher when you're in your mid-60s.
Exactly.
Did you think, my God, this could be it?
Yeah, I did.
You definitely come face to face with your mortality a lot more when you're 65 than when you're 50 or 55 or whatever I was, 52.
So that was, and you know, the bucket list comes into mind with all the things that I want to do.
And this may sound really shallow, but this came into my mind.
It's like, okay, which Kickass car do I really want to drive if I only have like a year.
So you were really thinking.
That's what I was thinking about.
Yeah.
You might only have a year to left.
I totally thought that.
Facing Mortality at Sixty-Five 00:16:41
Again, when I didn't know where it was coming from, that's a definite possibility.
Once that oncologist said, no, it's from your throat and it's very treatable, then I'm like, okay, so what do we do?
So you get into the, as a tennis player, you have to be in that solution.
You have to be in game mode.
And so that's where I think being a champion athlete comes in pretty handy.
One of the amazing ironies about this, I guess, is that after your first bout with cancer, you then spent the next few years telling women, get checked, get checked.
Because the first time it had been, I think, a four-year gap from your last mammogram.
And so you were determined that other women didn't fall into that trap of being a bit lazy about it.
And actually, it probably helped you get action quicker than you may have done.
You're absolutely right.
It's probably nothing, but you better find out because if it is something, then you want to catch it as early as possible.
So being diligent definitely helps.
And as an athlete, when you have an injury, you take care of it right away.
You don't wait for it to get better.
You tweeted, this double whammy is serious but fixable.
I'm hoping for a favorable outcome.
It's going to stink for a while.
But I'll fight with all I have got.
What were you feeling as you wrote those words?
I knew it was going to be hard, but I didn't realize it was going to be as hard as it really was.
I love to eat, as you know.
We had dinner together.
I love to eat.
And eating was the hardest part of this whole treatment.
I lost 15 pounds, not because I wanted to, but because I just couldn't get enough food in my body.
The radiation, the proton therapy, affects your throat and the mouth, and there's a lot going on, and it started closing.
I couldn't even yawn.
You start yawning, and it closes up and it stops the yawn halfway.
I couldn't sneeze.
It was like because it was so swollen.
And I only had three weeks of the proton when the normal course is seven weeks.
But thankfully, at Sloan Catering, Dr. Nancy Lee started this program where you only do three weeks.
If it resolves, then you stop.
If it doesn't, then you do the seven.
And you had to wear this extraordinary mask.
I'm going to bring in exhibit one so we can reunite you with your mask.
I call her Lucille.
Come on, Lucille, here we go.
There's the mask, yeah.
So it even looks like me.
It does look like you, yeah.
So explain what this is and why you had to use this.
So you see all these holes?
That's how they tape it.
You're laying on a table, and even for the back of the head, you have a formed cushion that's yours.
And then they put this on top, and they tape it down with these little pegs.
So you literally cannot even open your eyes.
Maybe a little bit I could see out of my right eye, but most of the time I couldn't.
You just can't move.
You cannot move because the proton is so specific, ready to radiate from four different angles.
So yeah, this is a very simple.
Why did you call it Lucille?
Oh, so a very good friend of mine had a Harley.
I sold her my Harley, and she named the Harley Lucille.
And she was a really close friend, and she died from cancer.
So I named Lucille.
But Lucille's going to get smashed.
I mean, like smashed, not drunk, but I'm going to smash her into a thousand pieces.
You learn to hate Lucille.
Some people make a planter out of them, but I think I'll just smash the heck out of her.
You also had chemotherapy at the same time.
So were they happening concurrently or did you have to break it up?
Yeah, it was at the same time.
So chemo was week one, week four, week seven of the proton and proton was every single day for seven weeks.
And that was the hard part because the first week is both chemo and radiation at the same time.
And when you start feeling lousy, you're not sure if it's from the chemo or the proton.
Proton is much more gradual.
Then the effects on the throat are more gradual.
So you just hit from all the ends.
And I don't think the doctors do a very good job of telling you what how it's going to really hit the fan.
You know, they tell you, well, this could happen or that could happen, but everybody's different, but they don't really get you ready for how.
Have you ever been through anything like this?
No.
The toughest thing you've had.
It's definitely the toughest thing I've ever done.
Yeah, I mean, it still is hard.
I still don't feel great, but I feel better every day.
After the break, more from my exclusive interview with Martin and their Rafflemo.
How do you feel emotionally?
Emotionally, it's been really weird.
So the emotional part was more difficult before I started the treatment because I still didn't know if they were going to accept me into the program.
When the breast cancer showed up, I didn't know if that was going to disqualify me because I knew the seven weeks was going to be brutal.
This was a trial thing that you did.
The trial that's hopefully three weeks instead of seven and I knew that would be a massive difference in long term.
Forget the seven weeks you're doing it.
It's when you do it seven weeks and depending on how big the tumor is, it could affect you the rest of your life.
So the biggest stress was getting into the treatment, which finally did happen.
So emotionally, very up and down beforehand.
Once the treatment started, the harder part was physical.
Getting through that.
And of course that plays on your emotions too.
So I did a bit of crying overall.
Probably maybe a grand total of 15 minutes.
But you know, it just kind of hits you and then you're like, okay, you have to suck it up.
And there's always somebody that's worse off than you are, especially when you see kids around there.
Well, that's what I was going to ask.
I mean, there were children, young kids, around you having treatment which may or may not save their lives.
What was that like to see on a daily basis?
Reality check.
Reality check.
I mean, you know, everybody that's there has cancer.
You just don't know which one.
So cancer is very democratic.
It totally doesn't care who you are.
We're all kind of in the same boat, but different boats because some may they don't know if they're going to be cured.
I knew my chances were pretty good.
But when you see kids, that's when you really stop feeling sorry for yourself because the parents go through, the kids may not even know what they're going through.
There were kids that were six, eight months old.
Toddlers, children, newborns, practically.
And they have to put them to sleep to do the treatment so they don't move.
That's when you just don't feel sorry for yourself anymore.
It's okay, you've just got to suck it up and deal with it.
You had an amazing moment.
This was a little video of you with the bell being rung to signify the end of your treatment.
I'll just let you watch it.
Supposed to ring it three times.
I did.
It was hard not to cry, I tell you.
I'm crying just looking at it again.
Because you wait, you wait, you just can't wait to ring the bell.
And it's still in God's hands, so to speak, whether you're gonna be 100% or not.
But you hope for the best.
Yeah, so this has been magical and difficult.
And thank you to figuring out this print on the thing.
Thank you very much.
No, the people were great.
They were really phenomenal.
It was wonderfully moving to watch that for me.
I can't even imagine for you to go through it and then to watch it back and to feel that.
And I can see it.
Yeah, because you have, you know, so when you're going through the treatments, you have some feeling sorry for yourself tears.
You pick your music, what do you want to listen to?
So usually it was Bob Marley, which was great.
It was the best music I didn't listen to.
One time I picked Elton John and then he started singing I'm Still Standing and I'm like he sang that to me in Paris during the French Open in the 80s.
Went to his concert and said, I dedicated this song to Martina, I'm Still Standing, because he knew that was one of my favorites.
So when they're, you know, I'm in this freaking mask, not able to move, and that song came on.
I'm like, oh, great.
So I can't really cry because I can't swallow.
I can't move.
So you have tears of feeling sorry for yourself.
This tear was just happiness at the end because you've been waiting for seven damn weeks.
And yeah, I mean the work is not finished, but the worst part is behind me.
And now I know I will just keep feeling better every day.
What have they told you about the prognosis going forward now?
It's very, very good.
I mean, as far as they know, I'm cancer-free.
I still need to deal with the right breast.
Probably will have radiation, but that's a couple weeks and it's like, that doesn't even count.
And that's more preventative than anything else.
And, you know, should be good to go.
It's like 99% solvable.
So I definitely will not be missing any of my check-ups.
I'll be very diligent about it.
But the prognosis is excellent.
But you never know.
Just like, you know, you never know.
You mentioned music and your agent Mary had this wonderful idea of getting a lot of your friends from the tennis world to send a song to rally your spirits.
And they all sent songs with messages.
And I want just to go through some of these.
I found it really moving, actually.
It was amazing.
Chris Everett, we talked about, who obviously had just had cancer, herself treated, I didn't know, at the same clinic as you, your great rival.
And she sent you Lean on Me by Bill Withers, which includes a line, I just might have a problem that you'll understand.
We all need someone to lean on.
Lean on me when you're not strong and I'll be your friend.
I'll help you carry on.
Yeah, but you're making me cry again.
See, I couldn't.
It's making me feel quite happy.
I couldn't even read the stuff.
When Mary first sent it to me, I just started crying and I'm crying now.
God, I'm such a softy.
And I started reading it.
I'm like, I cannot listen to the music because I'll definitely be bawling my eyes out.
So I just kind of, one day at a time, I read a little bit from what everybody wrote because it was so moving.
Lindsay Davenport, what she said, Sam Smith, Claire Balding, Chrissy.
Claire Balding sent you Something Inside So Strong by Laby Saffery.
Something Inside So Strong, I know that I Can Make It.
Billie Jean King sent you I Will Survive by Gloria.
Yeah, thanks a lot for that.
That's a happy song.
But yeah, it was, yeah, just Pam Triver, Both Sides Now by Joni Mitchell, which had the lyrics.
I've looked at life from both sides now, from win and lose and still somehow it's life's illusions I recall.
I really don't know life at all.
And Sue Barker just I Believe in You by Ildivo.
I know.
That's like, I mean, total tearjerkers, all of them.
And then what they said to me personally outside of the song was just so meaningful that I had to like parse it to myself a little bit at a time because it was so overwhelming.
And you don't realize how much you mean to people until they do something like that.
And that's really special.
So the tennis world has been amazing.
The support that I've gotten from...
I hear even Jimmy Connors.
Jimmy's called me, actually.
Jimmy called me.
I mean, the greatest street fighter in tennis history after you, right?
What did he say to you, Jimmy?
Just he knew that I was going to kick cancerous butt.
See, I got my little bracelet here.
So I bought myself, Julia gave me this one, Cartier.
This one I bought for myself, Tough as Nails, when I finished treatment.
That's what I put it on.
Tough as nails.
Tough as nails.
And then I have cancer, which is from a friend who passed away a couple of years ago, but she had a great life.
And Jimmy says, I know you're going to win this battle.
So yeah, when you get that kind of support, it's like, yeah, I'm going to kick this out.
Did you actually, because of the music choices, did you play the songs?
I played them eventually, but it took me a while.
It took me, I had to.
It was right to, I mean, especially, I mean, I don't want to single one out, but because of what Chris Eva had been through herself so recently, because you'd been such great rivals, because you've been treated at the same place, I just felt her choice of Lean on Me because you had been right there for her.
I remember reading your tweets to Chris Eva at the time.
And then suddenly you're in this world of pain, physically, emotionally, everything else.
And she's there saying lean on me.
Well, Chris gave me this little necklace, and I was wearing it for a while.
Then I took it off, replaced it.
And then when Chris got sick, I put it back on.
I'm like, I'm not going to take this off until she gets well.
So I never took it off.
I finally had to take it off to put the mask on to get the radiation.
I had to take this off.
So I finally put it back on again today.
I mean, we, you know, even when we were rivals, we still depended on each other.
We made each other better.
And I think we made each other better humans as well.
And we were always there for each other, no matter what.
That's an amazing thing.
I mean, just for me as a great tennis fan who watched you guys go at it for all those years, the fact that when it really mattered, actually, it wasn't a sport.
This was life and death.
There you are again.
But this time united together.
Yes.
And I guess we'll go into the sunset together.
Maybe, hopefully, when we're about 100 years old.
A lot of tennis players live to be 100, so I'm still planning on that, but we'll see.
Well, this is a definite big hiccup.
But yeah, if you look at the Hall of Famers or people that really play tennis, tennis has been found to be the one sport that prolongs your life more than any other activity.
Was there anything that Chris, I mean, the opening line of Lean on Me, I just might have a problem, you'll understand.
Was there anything in particular, given what she'd just been through, which really helped you?
Well, the mental toughness, of course.
I mean, hers was more of a question whether she was going to be okay.
I think hers was more dangerous, solution-wise.
And also, she went, I think she had six sessions of it.
It just really beat her up.
It beat her up so much that she couldn't even reply.
And that's when I knew it was really, really tough.
And I knew that she, well, what she went through, that I could ask her a question, I would get an honest answer.
And so we mostly texted, but we also spoke a couple of times.
And it was just so different.
If she hadn't gone through it, it would have been a different situation.
Did it help you, do you think?
It definitely helped.
Every little bit helps.
You don't know what puts you over the edge, right?
Just like you don't know when cancer happens, what makes it click the wrong way.
Just like you don't know what makes it click the right way when you are healing, when you are trying to kill it.
And so every little bit helps, all that positive energy.
So it's why it's so essential to surround yourself with people that give you that energy.
When you have these great champions, Chris, Billie Jean and others, is there something about being a great sporting champion which gives you that little extra reservoir of strength?
I mean, you've so often been trailing in a massive final at Wimbledon and you've got to somehow dig deeper perhaps more than most people do.
Does that trait help when you're fighting something?
Absolutely.
I know Chris never gave up playing when she was playing.
I mean, Billie Jean, by her own account, had tanked a few matches where she, you know, just screw it, I'm not doing it anymore.
But Chris and I, I don't ever recall.
I mean, I felt sorry for myself thinking, okay, I'm probably going to lose, but I'm going to keep fighting until the match point is over.
And the tennis teaches you that, I think.
And maybe champions have that more than the, you know, player rank 200, or maybe they just can't be any better, even though they're giving everything they have.
But you definitely have that mentality that I am not quitting until the match point is finished.
And you're always in the solution.
So that tennis teaches you that.
And that mentality that Chris and I, I don't know if you're born with it or if you learn it later, but you definitely, it becomes a habit.
Tennis Mentality and Family 00:06:11
Are you planning a long drunken lunch, you two?
To celebrate?
We will definitely celebrate.
Right now I can't.
Alcohol, it tastes terrible.
I haven't had any alcohol for two months during the treatment.
I quit.
I didn't want to, but then the taste buds change.
And I tasted a little tequila the other day.
Oh my God.
Wine, horrible.
It's like the worst vinegar you could have ever done.
Did that all come back?
Will you be?
It will come back.
It's coming back slowly.
But I had never been drunk in my life, but I may get drunk this time around.
I don't know.
This would be a good time to celebrate, I think.
But we're definitely getting together.
I'll see a few of you ladies having a long lunch.
We might do something.
Maybe, you know, pot is legal here in Florida, so maybe we'll just mock and join in honor of Bob Marley and not get drunk.
But definitely there'll be a lot of laughter.
What was there?
Well, they just played all Bob Marley, but Could You Be Loved is my favorite, I think.
Your father, you said, used to say if it doesn't involve your health, it's not worth poop.
It's so true, you said then.
This was after your first battle with cancer.
Because when I was diagnosed, the whole world stopped for me.
Everything else became irrelevant.
Having been through that once, was it more pronounced this time?
That period you said of three days where you just didn't know and your mind is spiraling into all sorts of dark places.
You know, even for someone like you who's got that mental strength.
How hard was that?
It was rough.
Those three days, I can't ever have them back.
Those were the hardest three days.
All your plans basically, everything stopped.
Everything stops.
Everything stopped 13 years ago and it really stopped this time around because it was so much more complex.
Even when I found out that it wasn't as bad as it could have been, it's still, you know, then the second cancer shows up a week later.
I'm like, oh my God, what am I going to do?
So yeah, your priorities really do realign completely.
And then if you get through it, then you really, I really only want to be doing things that I want to do rather than things that other people want to do.
Or after the break from Martina Nerve.
Welcome back to Ms. Special Edition of Piers Morgan.
I'm sensitive from Miami and Florida.
What are your number one priorities now?
What are the things you think right?
Staying healthy, taking care of myself, taking care of my wife, taking care of the kids.
Well, kids, that's 21 and 17, but they're still kids.
Well, these are your two daughters, obviously, Julia's girls.
And you call them your daughters, don't you?
Well, they are.
I mean, I raised them.
They were six and a half and two and a half when we got together 15 years ago.
So, yeah.
Very tough for them.
And they're great.
They were thrown for a loop.
Yeah.
They both said, I don't know how to process this, especially when we weren't really sure exactly what was going on.
And Julia was white as these curtains.
So when we first found out, she was scared.
I think she was maybe scared more than I was.
Because it's always harder for the people that survive you, right?
It was terrifying for everyone.
Because everyone's lives are on hold, right?
Very much so.
And once you get in the solution, then you can kind of get on with it.
And Victoria came twice to be with me during the treatment.
Julia was there at the beginning, and at the end, middle, I kind of kept to myself.
And there was one thing that was with me all the time.
That was Lulu.
I think we're going to bring Lulu before the end, my dog, my little dachshund.
But it's still a lonely battle, but it's important to surround yourself with people that support you.
And the family, my family was there for me.
There was a lovely moment that Julia decided to surprise you by cutting her hair back to the kind of Parisian bob she had when you first met her and fell in love.
Because you'd always said how much you love that style.
That's true.
And she was planning this whole surprise.
She wasn't going to FaceTime you so you saw it.
She was going to just basically turn up.
And you see, did she manage to keep it a secret?
She did, she did, and she's terrible at keeping secrets.
She never buys presents ahead of time because she wants to come to you like today.
She didn't want to wait till a month from now.
So she kept her bargain.
And I just was like laughing like crazy because it brought back really good memories when we first got together.
When did you first see her with the new style?
In New York, yeah, when she came to see me, the last week of, which was the hardest week, was the last chemo.
What also the doctors don't tell you is that chemo is cumulative.
So Julia was there for me when it was the worst batch, but she looks so cute.
She looks younger and she looks great.
Now, of course, I got my haircut too because this chemo doesn't make you lose your hair.
I was kind of hoping actually that I would lose the hair because usually it grows back thicker.
Chris's hair is thicker.
She lost hair hair.
She had different chemo.
And her hair is really cute, short, but really thick.
I'm like, why couldn't it...
So, see, the competition comes in again.
Now, Chris has thicker hair than me.
I'm kidding.
You've been married since 2014.
How important has she been this year for you?
Massive, massive.
I mean, yeah, Julia didn't deal with the first cancer that, well, of course, it wasn't as serious, but she was like trying to run away from it, running away from it.
But this time around, she was there all the way, holding my hand when I needed to be held and there physically and of course emotionally all the time.
It's a bit of a cliche.
People say these things, they can make you actually cause distance between people in this situation.
Or it can bring you closer together.
What do you feel?
It did that.
It brought us closer together.
The first one, there was some distance.
This one brought us closer together.
And this is the one that was really much, much tougher, much more severe and serious.
And yeah, we're closer, definitely.
She said that you were talking about adopting a child because the two girls have now got to the age where they've left home.
MT Nest.
MT Nest syndrome.
How far had you got with that?
And has this changed anything?
Support That Brought Us Closer 00:10:41
I think so.
Well, we hired an agency.
Julia, I was devastated when Emma went to live in Europe for the last two years of high school and the emptiness really hit her.
I'm like, go, go.
She was like, no, come back.
So, yeah, I think it was a nice thought for a while, but I think this kind of brought it into sharp focus.
You know, I'm not the youngest anymore, and I don't want to be the grandma on the playground, but forget that part.
It's just there's just not enough space, I think, for this to happen.
So we don't think about adopting, but that's definitely put on hold, and I don't think it's going to happen.
Do you know?
I don't.
I think it's just too complicated.
And the energy, you know, you only have so much right now.
Would you be sad about that?
Yeah, of course.
It was a nice idea, nice thought, nice possibility, but I've got to be a little more realistic.
So, I mean, Julia will support whatever.
But I think there's just only so much you can do with your energy, and I don't think it's there for me.
You made a powerful speech quite recently, actually, talking about cancer.
You were telling people, we're not here forever.
Don't keep things on the back burner.
Are you pursuing passion?
Cancer dared me to be brave, to be inspirational, to be humbled, and to be calm.
And that was after your first experience.
What's it daring you to be now, do you think?
Obviously changed some big priorities, but what do you feel is daring you to be now?
Well, I think I'm still kind of dealing with the after effects.
Like my mouth right now is really dry.
I'm still not tasting things.
Eating is still really hard.
Me who loves to eat, I'm missing all these meals.
Great diet plan, though.
Great diet plan.
Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
So I'm still dealing with recovery, but overall, I think it just really sees those days.
You can't ever have them back again.
And I don't want to waste my energy on things that are not productive, that are not meaningful, that don't fill your soul.
And that don't make a difference for not just me, but people around and maybe the world at large.
What kind of things are now like, I'm not doing that anymore.
Things that you guilted into.
No matter what.
Like going to an event, you know, where you have to get all dressed up and it's for some charity or for some person, whatever.
No.
You know, I'd rather go to dinner with four dear friends and have a great meal and have a great exchange of ideas.
You said that last time you had a private pity party, but it didn't last very long.
Did you have a private pity party last year?
Well, private, yes.
Pity, more like really?
I mean, two cancers at the same time.
Again, who the hell does that?
So I had a pity party, but again, you know, being the tennis player that I was, I used to be, or somebody who has been, some people said.
Oh, yeah, but I'm a good husband.
It's getting in a solution.
So you just stay in that.
And you have those moments, but again, they're short-lived.
And sometimes it hits me without even thinking.
Yesterday I was watching TV and all of a sudden I start crying.
Like, I really didn't deserve that.
What did I do to deserve that?
But again, it was...
It's just a random thought you had.
Yeah, but again, it lasts about 30 seconds.
And then you're like, I'm so lucky because it could have been so much worse.
This cancer 20 years ago would have been life-changing.
They didn't have proton.
Then the surgery, they literally saw your jaw open to get to the throat.
Now they do robotic surgery, so it's much, much easier.
So I was lucky.
As bad as it was, I still got lucky.
I will have full recovery.
What's on the Martina bucket list now?
Oh, Galapagos.
That's been on that for forever.
Why are you so keen to go there?
Well, just to see all the life, all that life.
I just want to swim.
I want to snorkel.
I want to scuba dive and see all these seals and tortoises and sharks and all these creatures.
It's teeming with wildlife.
And I love wildlife.
I spent six months in Kenya.
I love it there.
I want to go back to Kenya again.
I really feel at home there.
When you were going through the most difficult part of this, did you have that kind of throwback at your life?
Did you look at your life?
Yeah.
And what did you feel about your life to that moment?
I could have done more, but I also could have done less.
And overall, what a life I've had.
How lucky am I. I'm not planning on leaving it anytime soon.
No, damn right.
Damn right.
Damn right.
But did you have any big regrets when you were thinking about a year to live?
I wish I'd done that.
Well, then I would try to figure out what to pack into it if I really, if it was finite, then I would really put the priorities there.
But, you know, I love my work.
I can't wait to start working.
I'm working on the tennis channel for the tournament in Miami this next two weeks and I can't wait to see everybody.
I love my work.
I mean it seems to me just having known you a little bit but you've led an extraordinary successful life but a very tough one too.
I mean you've had to come from personally and professionally but personally a lot of big challenges.
But the common theme is you've always come through them.
Do you feel like at your core is just a fighter?
What was the alternative?
Giving up, giving in, stopping?
That's just not an option for me.
So yeah, you get on with it.
I think growing up in a communist country, you're tough.
You have to be.
And you're kind of stoic because you can't feel sorry for yourself because you would just be crying all the time because you don't have any freedom.
So, you know, I grabbed that chance when I got it and I was never going to look back.
So no regrets.
The only regret I have is that I had to do it.
That I really, to pursue my dream, which was to play tennis and be free, I had to leave my country.
And I can't have those years back with my family.
And I hurt them.
So that was tough.
But regrets, I wish I had gotten a coach earlier.
I would have won more.
Probably would have stopped sooner as well.
So, you know, whatever it is, it's a wash.
But quitting is just not in my DNA.
That I think is completely true.
After the break, we're joined by Martina's wife, Julia.
And here's the final part of my interview with Martina.
Where we're joined by her wife, Julia.
Well, I've been joined by two more ladies.
Julia, your lovely wife, and by Lulu.
Lulu's definitely.
She's always a lady.
She is always a lady.
She's incredibly well-baited.
Lulu was with me through every treatment.
In fact, I smuggled her to the hospital because I didn't know they allowed dogs.
I didn't want to ask in case they say no.
So she was contraband.
And then during one of those treatments, she poked her nose through the doggy bag.
And the nurse says, oh, what a cute dog.
So that's when I knew dogs were okay.
Do you think she picked up that you were going through something?
Well, she's always following me around.
So I don't know.
I'm not sure.
Because she's always attached to my left hip.
You found it very comforting to have Lulu there.
She is.
She's great.
She doesn't argue.
And she follows me everywhere.
And she's very well housebroken.
So not a problem at all.
She can hold her her pee for a long time.
Would you say all those same things about Julia or Julia?
It took me a little bit.
My heart's broken.
It took me a little bit longer to train Julia.
But she's very supportive.
Amazing.
Amazing.
She's been there for me.
Julia, what's it been like for you?
Because you've been married since 2014, so nearly 10 years now.
And, you know, these are love of each other's lives.
And suddenly Martina gets hit with a double blow, throat cancer and breast cancer.
It's obviously potentially incredibly serious, life-changing, potentially life-ending.
What was it like for you?
She said that the first time she had a rhomboid cancer, you were slightly distant from it.
You didn't really want to get it.
She said that.
Yeah.
Although this time you went completely the opposite way.
Well, when your wife is diagnosed with cancer and especially two cancers, it puts life in perspectives.
And the values and everything, just what seems to be important, suddenly not that important.
And the other way around, it changes your perspective and look at life and really makes you think what's important, who is the most important person for you in your life and what do they need.
And of course they need support.
And Martina needed me.
It was about Martina, not about myself.
The way to comfort her, make sure she's okay, she's alright and do things I usually wouldn't do, you know?
Like cook.
Like cook.
Usually I like, you know, be like nag less and do things for Martina because I'm so used to Martina doing a lot of things to comfort me.
What was the hardest moment for you, this whole thing?
I think when Martina just found out that she had cancer, but she had to wait like four days or five days before she knew where and what it was.
For me it was really hard because you know that you say to somebody, oh it's going to be all right darling, but then you maybe lie, maybe it's not going to be all right, so you don't know.
And I am, Martina knows me more like as a hardcore person.
I don't easily cry, but she doesn't know that I do cry like behind the closed doors.
But for me it was like really difficult to hold my tears and not show her in her face what I was actually feeling and thinking.
There was a look in Julia's face that I never saw before because she was scared.
We were both scared.
But yeah, she didn't.
There was just a different look and body language that I haven't seen before.
Martina said she felt this had actually brought you closer together this whole experience.
Very much so.
Renewal of Marriage Vows 00:05:21
Yes.
My empty nesting syndrome disappeared.
The happy girls are gone and having their life and looking out for each other themselves and also for us.
And we kind of rebonded, reconnected and revalued.
Revaluation of values happen and importance and what we want to do and what's on the bucket list and where we want to go.
Well on her bucket list is the Galapagos Islands.
And Kenya, I'm sure.
She said Kenya.
I guess that.
In Kenya.
I mean I'm seeing a kind of maybe a renewal of marriage vows in the Galapagos.
What do you think of that?
Why not?
Scuba diving?
Why scuba diamond?
I'm scared of sharks.
Yeah.
She likes all the stuff you don't like.
You like all the stuff she doesn't like normally.
Yeah, I'll do a lot for love, but maybe not scuba diving.
So what do you think?
I'm seeing a scene in the Galapagos with maybe a blue whale in the background.
I mean, people do.
Galapagos tortoises, but then I also have them in my ranch.
People do, they do actually sometimes.
These kind of things, they do make people want to renew wedding vows.
Do you think it's something you might do?
I'm not sure.
Because I feel like we're renewing them almost every day.
Yeah.
But you do like symbolic things.
I love symbolic things.
I'm half Russian.
That's a good idea.
That would be a good excuse to go to the Galapagos.
We have to renew our vows.
Exactly.
Maybe next year.
But then you're supposed to tell me that.
It's supposed to be a surprise.
Like, now I already know I'm not going to Galapagos.
Change destination.
With respect, she proposed to you last time.
She did.
And in the US Opera on the Jumbotron live on TV, right?
I think you are the one.
Yeah, thank you, Pierce.
I've got you back, Martina.
So then I have to surprise her and do something.
But now you just spill the beans.
How can it surprise her to think of something?
We can pretend it's a surprise.
Can pretend.
Martina is saying, though, that one of the things that probably won't happen now is you probably won't adopt a child as a consequence of all this.
Well, life is full of surprises.
You don't know what's happening, right?
Like we were waiting for Funkel to welcome a child home and then we were fighting to cancer.
So today it is not the first thing I'm thinking about because the first thing I'm thinking about is for Martina to get well and better and stronger.
And we'll see what happens.
I personally did not put it on a complete like postponement for like no, it's not a no for me, but I don't know.
I literally don't know.
We don't know.
It's possible.
But not like possible.
We don't know.
Life is full of surprises.
Like who knows?
The one thing that isn't surprising is how tough she is.
She's very tough.
What's the alternative though?
She's very tough.
Right?
She's very tough.
It's easy to be brave when you have no other option.
Right.
Right.
I mean, that is my view of life, right?
If you get hit with a thing, Lucy, what else are you going to do?
Roll over.
Exactly.
But it's still, you know, you've got to do it.
You're going to do it, yes.
And I have a completely different perspective of life now because before I would postpone it for tomorrow, for tomorrow, for later, for later, for later.
I was like this perfect scarlet hoira.
Okay, like tomorrow.
Not anymore.
I feel young, super young now.
You know why?
You had a young haircut.
Well, that's another story, but I feel young now because tomorrow I'll be a day older, right?
So that's it.
I'm young now and I want to do things that I can and I have energy for and huge humongous appetite for life.
Are you proud of the way she's come through this?
So proud.
So proud.
I'm amazed how strong she was during this.
I'm a total hypochondriac.
I'm scared of everything and everything, you know.
And any medical procedure, anything, I cry a little bit.
Little.
Ah!
Everything.
I just always imagine the worst.
And Martina, she handled it so with such strength and positivity.
I literally don't know how she managed to hold it all together.
What did you think of all the tennis people sending their favorite song to inspire her?
I think it's so sweet.
I did not send the song, Po Martina.
You didn't?
She sings herself.
I sing.
I wish.
I wish.
I cannot make a sound.
She's beautiful, but she cannot sing.
But when she does, it makes me laugh.
When I sing, it makes you laugh.
When did you hear me sing?
You never heard me sing.
Yeah, well, when you don't know I'm around.
I don't want to intrude into something here.
Well, I'm sure it wasn't one of the parrots.
Maybe it could have been Pushkin.
I have a parrot and he sings opera.
Really?
Incredible.
What kind of opera?
Pavarotti.
Pavarotti, that is there.
I would put Pavlarotti in.
Nessandor or?
Nessandora, yeah.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
Lulu is going to rock into I Will Survive?
Lulu is a superstar.
Well, listen, I wish you both all the very best.
Thank you very much.
I know it's been a very long few months, right?
A life-facing few months.
Yep, you've come through it.
Yes.
Pat myself on the back.
Thank you, darling.
It's lovely to talk to you.
Great to see you looking so well.
Thank you.
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