Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20230313_piers-morgan-uncensored-gary-lineker-returns-to-mo
Aired: 2023-03-13
Duration: 46:33


=== BBC Guidelines and Free Speech (14:04) ===

[00:00:00]  Tonight on Piers Morgan uncensored victory for Gary Dineke as the BBC backs down over the match of the day mutiny.
[00:00:06]  But is it a victory for free speech or just a spectacular owned goal by the national broadcaster or maybe both?
[00:00:13]  Statues of able-bodied white men should be torn down in case they're racist according to the Welsh government.
[00:00:19]  Does their brushing the past really make anything better in the present?
[00:00:24]  We'll debate that plus.
[00:00:28]  What does it feel like to be in Glass Onion?
[00:00:31]  Well, I'm barely in it.
[00:00:32]  I'm in it for about three seconds.
[00:00:34]  All right, back to you guys.
[00:00:36]  Hugh Grant's breathtaking arrogance becomes the biggest talking point on the beige carpet at a decidedly beige Oscars.
[00:00:43]  Should we ban Hugh Grant from all awards ceremonies to make them more interesting?
[00:00:47]  Sharon Osborne joins me live.
[00:00:54]  Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
[00:00:59]  Well good evening from London.
[00:01:00]  Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
[00:01:01]  Gary Dineke stood his ground against a howling mob demanding his head over an honestly held opinion.
[00:01:07]  He also stood his ground against his employers at the BBC as it tied itself in knots of chaos and hypocrisy.
[00:01:14]  It took them a staggering six days to resolve Jugg's Gate, six days of turmoil risking the entirety of the BBC's sports coverage and the future of its management over a single tweet expressing an opinion.
[00:01:27]  And the net result of the whole Farrago is a lot of very angry people and a battered BBC reputation that will pay the price for a lot longer than six days.
[00:01:36]  I'm not sure what Director General Tim Davey is looking quite so smug about.
[00:01:41]  One of the joys of this affair is there'd never been an easy solution, but asking Gary to step back off air was, I think, a significant thing.
[00:01:51]  And now we look forward with this agreement moving forward to resolve things and get back to business as usual.
[00:01:58]  I don't think there was much joy in this whole affair, Mr Davey.
[00:02:01]  Match of the day bizarrely aired with no pundits or commentary at the weekend after a host of stars pulled out in support of the Nickel.
[00:02:08]  Sports coverage across the BBC descended a complete farce as pre-recorded podcasts and filler took the place of some of its most popular shows.
[00:02:15]  And that's why the BBC has really backed down.
[00:02:18]  It was about to lose one of its biggest stars, obliterating his reputation in the process.
[00:02:23]  He couldn't even put together a convincing argument for why any of this was happening.
[00:02:27]  None of the people baying for Lineke's blood have been able to explain why he's any different to the many other contractors who frequently express opinions, like apprentice host Alan Sugar, who blasted Jeremy Corbyn on the front page of The Sun and made other rather unfortunate, inappropriate jokes.
[00:02:44]  Or Jeremy Clarkson, who when he was host of Top Gear, said striking public sector workers should be shot.
[00:02:50]  Or Andrew Neal, who was a BBC star interviewer and politics host for decades, same time as running The Spectator.
[00:02:58]  All of these people continued their work for the BBC along with Sir David Attenborough, who talks very stridently about things like climate change because audiences like them and they were able to see the blindingly obvious difference between the BBC's editorial stance and the personal views of some of the people who worked for them.
[00:03:14]  The entire saga has shone an unflattering light on the BBC.
[00:03:19]  Tim Davy looks hapless.
[00:03:21]  Perfectly straightforward rules about impartiality have become an unsolvable riddle.
[00:03:25]  And questions are now intensifying over the future of Chairman Richard Sharp, a Conservative donor who organised a massive loan for Boris Johnson, just before the same Boris Johnson gave him a job.
[00:03:36]  But more than anything, it shone a light unflatteringly on some weapons-grade hypocrites.
[00:03:41]  Many of the people crusading for Lineke's sacking have found themselves caught up in the toxic swirl of cancelled culture they normally profess to hate.
[00:03:49]  The BBC could have made a powerful statement for free speech and common sense by backing Lineke from the beginning.
[00:03:54]  Instead, it's become, well, a spectacular own goal.
[00:03:58]  Well joining me now as the leader of the True and Fair Party, Gina Miller, and reform UK leader and talk to you presenter Richard Tice.
[00:04:04]  I'm also joined by Chief Football Writer of the Times, Henry Winter.
[00:04:08]  Let me start with you, Henry.
[00:04:09]  Always a voice of common sense, the enemy of hysteria as all around lose their heads.
[00:04:17]  What's your overview of where we've washed up on Linekergate?
[00:04:23]  Well, I think that the broader perspective is that we should be able to have grown-up conversations in this country.
[00:04:29]  And if the government and the BBC bosses are convinced that a sports presenter articulating a tweet, not a terribly toxic one, I didn't agree with his language on the 30s, but you know, he's an intelligent individual.
[00:04:44]  He's travelled the world.
[00:04:45]  His experience is quite capable of coming out with a reasoned argument.
[00:04:49]  He's not presenting the 10 o'clock news, so there was no issue with impartiality.
[00:04:54]  But I think we've seen the best of the BBC and the worst of the BBC.
[00:04:58]  The best of the BBC, as you're alluding to, is the support of Sheare Wright and so many other people for Ian Wright.
[00:05:05]  And this is what Tim Davy, and this is the worst of the BBC, is the naivety and arrogance and entitlement of the bosses upstairs, how out of touch.
[00:05:13]  I mean, I've talked to so many BBC staff over the weekend, sports staff over the weekend, who said the management just so out of touch.
[00:05:20]  You can't do that in any business, yours, mine, certainly not at the BBC.
[00:05:24]  So I think Tim Davy has been brought back from America, he's been brought back down to earth.
[00:05:28]  He's been reminded that there is this collective spirit in his sports department.
[00:05:33]  So they've come out of it incredibly well.
[00:05:35]  But management really have got to learn some basic skills.
[00:05:39]  Yeah, I mean, and the most extraordinary aspect of this is you would normally expect the chairman of the BBC to be getting involved, expressing an opinion.
[00:05:46]  But he can't because he's under investigation for, wait for it, a lack of impartiality over both his donation to the Conservative Party of £400,000 and helping Boris Johnson facilitate an £800,000 loan.
[00:06:01]  When you've got the chairman of the BBC silenced in a scandal like this because of his own lack of impartiality as many see it, that really, to me, Henry, sums up just what a farce has been.
[00:06:16]  I agree.
[00:06:17]  I mean, Piers, we're football fans, we're used to dealing with VAR as far and this is VAR tenfold.
[00:06:24]  There's clearly an inconsistency in the guidelines on impartiality.
[00:06:28]  And at the end of the day, to use a football encliche, Lineker is a sports presenter.
[00:06:34]  He wasn't doing it on Match of the Day.
[00:06:36]  He wasn't doing it on a news channel.
[00:06:38]  He wasn't doing it on a news programme.
[00:06:40]  And again, we're a grown-up country.
[00:06:42]  We should be able to have grown-up debates.
[00:06:44]  And if the government of the BBC are scared of a sports presenter voicing an opinion, which some people believe in, and they believe in his principles, on his own private social media account, then either they need to look at those guidelines for freelancers within the BBC or just grow up.
[00:07:02]  Yeah, I completely agree.
[00:07:03]  Richard Tice, well, you've lost.
[00:07:05]  It's Lineke.
[00:07:05]  Not at all.
[00:07:06]  I've been proven absolutely one.
[00:07:08]  BBC and its supporters like you.
[00:07:10]  I was here last Thursday and I said he's brought the BBC into disrepute and he did because they had zero sports coverage on Saturday.
[00:07:17]  All the others sided with him.
[00:07:18]  I was proven exactly right.
[00:07:20]  Even Henry's just admitted he breached the editorial.
[00:07:22]  Why is he back on air then?
[00:07:24]  Well hang on.
[00:07:24]  He breached the guidelines.
[00:07:25]  He breached the code of conduct for social media.
[00:07:27]  No one said that.
[00:07:28]  Nobody has said that.
[00:07:29]  They absolutely have said that they haven't, which is why he's a BBC.
[00:07:32]  Sorry.
[00:07:33]  Sorry, Richard.
[00:07:33]  Richard.
[00:07:34]  Richard.
[00:07:35]  You can't just say things without me countering.
[00:07:37]  That's how we got into this trouble in the first place.
[00:07:39]  The point is, they haven't found him in breach, actually.
[00:07:43]  They've actually allowed him back on air on Saturday because they've recognised that they were up against it with all the other staff going out.
[00:07:50]  He's agreed with them that all these guidelines need a review.
[00:07:54]  Yes, but they haven't found him in breach.
[00:07:56]  They know he breached the guidelines, which were set in 2020.
[00:08:00]  You can't keep telling me that the sky is red when it's blue.
[00:08:03]  Do you want me to reread them again?
[00:08:05]  The Senate Media Guidesline says you can't tweak.
[00:08:07]  You might say he's in breach.
[00:08:09]  The BBC in its conclusion today has not said he was in breach.
[00:08:13]  Because they're desperately trying to settle.
[00:08:15]  So you admit they haven't said that.
[00:08:17]  Look, the fact is, no, the fact is they're not.
[00:08:21]  They've agreed to review the social media guidelines because that's not the same thing.
[00:08:24]  That doesn't mean it doesn't mean he was in breach.
[00:08:26]  Well, I showed you last week.
[00:08:28]  You've just stated for a fact that he was in breach.
[00:08:30]  Because he used his personal Twitter account to give a partial control.
[00:08:33]  So why hasn't the BBC said he was in breach of his contract?
[00:08:36]  Well, essentially, that was why they suspended him last time.
[00:08:38]  Haven't they now said he was in breach?
[00:08:39]  Genie, I mean, filming.
[00:08:41]  Am I missing something?
[00:08:41]  Yes, you are.
[00:08:42]  No, he's not.
[00:08:44]  You're not missing anything.
[00:08:45]  Because you're talking about being in breach of the code which applies to employees.
[00:08:50]  He was a, actually, he's not.
[00:08:52]  He's a freelancer.
[00:08:52]  He's not employed by the business.
[00:08:53]  Makes no difference.
[00:08:54]  He's not a business.
[00:08:55]  No, no, no, no.
[00:08:55]  The code is actually different.
[00:08:57]  What is most surprising to the interview I've just heard from Tim Davies is Tiffan Davies just said, so we can get back to business as usual.
[00:09:04]  Business as usual is a whole problem with the BBC and the way it's been working is because it's not impartial.
[00:09:10]  I think the problem is with all of this week is that they've shown that they're an organisational shambles.
[00:09:16]  The people at the top there are biased and shouldn't be there.
[00:09:19]  And to restore credibility is really important because all of our shared institutions, national institutions, need to have people trusting it.
[00:09:28]  That's what was done this week.
[00:09:29]  Right, I agree.
[00:09:30]  But Richard, at the heart of this, to me, this is very straightforward.
[00:09:34]  Given the volume of people who appear as BBC faces, Lord Sugar, David Attenborough, you know, Deborah Meaden on Dragon's Dead, Karen Brady, right?
[00:09:45]  All these people have been pontificating.
[00:09:47]  And I think they're perfectly entitled to it, by the way.
[00:09:50]  But none of them are actually BBC staff employees.
[00:09:52]  Now, here's my distinction.
[00:09:54]  I think if you work as an employee of BBC News and Current Affairs, you should be prohibited from expressing any public political opinions.
[00:10:02]  Agreed.
[00:10:03]  Because clearly you are in direct conflict.
[00:10:05]  But I don't give a star.
[00:10:07]  With all due respect to Gary and Lord Sugar and all the others, I don't give a star for what they all have to say about it.
[00:10:13]  That's the good news about this, because basically...
[00:10:16]  Would you agree with me?
[00:10:16]  No, I do agree.
[00:10:17]  The point is, they've got themselves into terrible history.
[00:10:20]  If you agree, why have you been thinking about it?
[00:10:22]  Because he brought them into disrepute and he breached their guidelines for which he was sanctioned and didn't appear on Saturday.
[00:10:28]  That's proven me right.
[00:10:29]  But look before.
[00:10:30]  Hang on.
[00:10:31]  Looking forward.
[00:10:32]  You keep saying something which hasn't been established.
[00:10:36]  Then why was he?
[00:10:36]  If he breached their guidelines, why is the suspension being immediately back on air?
[00:10:41]  No, he was suspended because he made a comment about the home secretary.
[00:10:44]  And we're agreeing the way too, which is really important.
[00:10:47]  Look forwards.
[00:10:48]  Suspended for breaching.
[00:10:49]  He was.
[00:10:50]  He was told he couldn't appear on Saturday.
[00:10:52]  And so all the other things.
[00:10:52]  Yes, but he had in the statement today.
[00:10:55]  There is no mention of him having breached anything.
[00:10:57]  That doesn't mean he did.
[00:10:58]  They're now doing a big review, which is a fudge for we got into a deep poll.
[00:11:02]  We've no idea how to get out of it.
[00:11:04]  Agreed.
[00:11:04]  We'll put him back on air so we can get everything back on air and then we're going to try and work this out.
[00:11:08]  But my solution is just simply to split news and current affairs from everything else.
[00:11:14]  But in return for which, right, freedom of choice, freedom of speech.
[00:11:18]  I want the freedom of choice of not being obliged to pay the license fee for something that I hardly ever watch.
[00:11:23]  That then I think is...
[00:11:25]  Hang on, you don't have to do it.
[00:11:26]  Well, you do.
[00:11:26]  If you watch any live platform, any live platform on any device, you have to buy a license fee, including if you watch YouTube on an iPad.
[00:11:34]  So look, the reality is we should basically say, right, let's have freedom of choice, freedom of speech, accept the news.
[00:11:40]  That's absolutely fine.
[00:11:41]  But I think this is the beginning of the end of the compulsory license.
[00:11:44]  But are you comfortable having a chairman of the BBC?
[00:11:48]  Agreed.
[00:11:48]  Who donated to the...
[00:11:49]  It's ridiculous.
[00:11:50]  And secondly, you also have Tim Davey, who runs the BBC, who was himself, he stood as a Tory candidate.
[00:11:57]  And you've got Bobby Hips.
[00:11:59]  And you've got McGowan.
[00:12:02]  By the way, I like Tim Davey personally.
[00:12:05]  He's a very smart guy.
[00:12:06]  But to me, if you really want a tactical impartiality, that's part of the problem.
[00:12:11]  I'm not defending the BBC.
[00:12:13]  They've got themselves in a terrible muddle.
[00:12:15]  But the point is, if you breach a company's guidelines, if you bring it into disrepute, there has to be a sanction.
[00:12:20]  The sanction has already happened.
[00:12:22]  He didn't appear on Saturday.
[00:12:23]  Oh, by the way, the customer.
[00:12:24]  But hang on, the customer.
[00:12:25]  Hang on.
[00:12:26]  More customers watch without him than with him.
[00:12:28]  Hang on.
[00:12:28]  Well, yeah, but we know that's just, people would cheer if a test card had run, as I pointed out to him, Ashley.
[00:12:34]  I think the point, Gina, is that he was not suspended for any discernible breach of his contract stated by the BBC.
[00:12:41]  He was suspended because of the inflammatory nature of what he wrote.
[00:12:45]  And I don't agree with what he wrote, but I absolutely defend his right to have that kind of thing.
[00:12:50]  I absolutely defend his right.
[00:12:52]  And actually, everybody who bangs the tape about free speech should defend his right.
[00:12:55]  But I just want to pick up something, Richard.
[00:12:57]  I know you're not very good at details, but let me just tell you something about the subscription service.
[00:13:02]  Really?
[00:13:02]  Yeah, a subscription service for the BBC, as most free marketeers go on about.
[00:13:07]  How are you going to make that happen when we've got 10.7 million people?
[00:13:10]  It works on Netflix.
[00:13:10]  Netflix, it works on Amazon Bridge.
[00:13:12]  Because they're not a national broadcast.
[00:13:14]  He doesn't have to be a national broadcaster.
[00:13:15]  I'm sorry, there's 10.
[00:13:17]  I do think the licence fee is an anachronism, and I do think within 10 to 15.
[00:13:22]  I'll tell you why, because my sons are all in their 20s.
[00:13:25]  They're just not going to be feeling morally obliged to pay a licence fee.
[00:13:29]  They don't buy print newspapers.
[00:13:31]  They're not going to pay a BBC license.
[00:13:32]  No, but you have to have the technology to have a subscription fee.
[00:13:35]  You've got Netflix.
[00:13:36]  What are you talking about, Jim?
[00:13:37]  Because the BBC needs to have something called conditional access technology.
[00:13:42]  There's 10.7 million people in this country who watch a BBC on Freeview.
[00:13:47]  There's 10 million people who don't have super broadband.
[00:13:49]  Maybe in the future we will get there.
[00:13:51]  But right now, you cannot invest and convert the whole of the BBC to subscription service.
[00:13:58]  It's not possible at the moment.
[00:14:00]  We're going to leave it there.
[00:14:01]  I mean, I think you have to accept that you lost, Richard.

=== Hollywood Red Carpet Awkwardness (13:03) ===

[00:14:04]  Nonsense.
[00:14:04]  I've been proven right.
[00:14:05]  He didn't appear on Saturday.
[00:14:06]  He bought the BBC into disrepute.
[00:14:08]  I'm right.
[00:14:09]  You were wrong on Thursday.
[00:14:10]  Final question for Henry Winter, given you are the doyenne of football experts.
[00:14:15]  Are Arsenal going to win the league, Henry?
[00:14:17]  Because it's looking good.
[00:14:21]  Honestly, the way they've recovered from Manchester City is just as impressive as the way you've just put this Richard character away, Pierce.
[00:14:31]  Henry Winter, this is exactly why I wanted you on, Henry Winter.
[00:14:35]  Great to see you, Henry.
[00:14:36]  Thank you very much.
[00:14:36]  Richard, great to see you.
[00:14:38]  And don't worry, you'll bounce back.
[00:14:39]  And great to see you, Gina.
[00:14:40]  Thank you very much.
[00:14:42]  Next tonight, the award for the world's worst A-lister.
[00:14:46]  Yes, it's my old friend Hugh Grant.
[00:14:48]  I say he should now be banned from all award shows after his obnoxious performance on the Oscars red, slightly beige carpet.
[00:14:55]  We'll debate that with Sharon Osborne and Hugh Grant fan Bonnie Greer next.
[00:15:10]  Well, as award shows go, this year's Oscars was about as beige as you can get.
[00:15:14]  Even the traditional red carpet took a hit, replaced by a beige one.
[00:15:18]  But what's got us all talking for the wrong reasons is the ever-obnoxious Hugh Grant.
[00:15:24]  He seemingly delighted in humiliating interviewer, a supermodel Ashley Graham, on the non-red carpet.
[00:15:31]  What's your favourite thing about coming to the Oscars?
[00:15:38]  Well, it's fascinating.
[00:15:42]  The whole of humanity is here.
[00:15:45]  It's vanity fair.
[00:15:46]  What are you wearing tonight then?
[00:15:48]  Just my suit.
[00:15:49]  Your suit?
[00:15:50]  What made your suit?
[00:15:50]  You didn't make it.
[00:15:52]  I can't remember my tailor.
[00:15:53]  What does it feel like to be in Glass Onion?
[00:15:55]  Well, I'm barely in it.
[00:15:56]  I'm in it for about three seconds.
[00:15:58]  Okay, all right.
[00:15:59]  Okay.
[00:16:00]  Well, thank you so much.
[00:16:01]  It was nice to talk to you.
[00:16:02]  Yeah.
[00:16:03]  All right, back to you guys.
[00:16:06]  I mean.
[00:16:13]  I mean, it went on a bit, the Hugh Grant exchange there with poor old Ashley Graham.
[00:16:18]  He was just doing a job, right?
[00:16:19]  If you go on the red carpet at the Oscars or the beige carpet as it was last night, it's the biggest carpet in show business history.
[00:16:28]  It is crawling in journalists.
[00:16:30]  The only purpose of walking down it is to talk to the media.
[00:16:36]  But old Hugh Grant, who hates the media, decided he wanted to present an award at the Oscars and march down the carpet and then be a complete douchebag to any journalists who have the temerity or supermodels to ask him questions.
[00:16:50]  Like, what are you wearing?
[00:16:51]  Which is probably the most famous question in Hollywood history, to which the answer is, I'm wearing Dolcin Cabana or whatever it is you're wearing.
[00:16:58]  What you don't do is humiliate and pick on a young interviewer just trying to do her job.
[00:17:05]  You don't roll your eyes and walk away like, God, have I got to deal with these idiots?
[00:17:09]  Well, we've got talk TV presenter Sharon Osborne has joined me and playwright and author Bonnie Grimm.
[00:17:13]  Bonnie, let me start with you.
[00:17:15]  You apparently want to defend this behavior.
[00:17:18]  Well, you know, Piers, look, it wasn't very nice.
[00:17:21]  I mean, I wouldn't have done it myself.
[00:17:22]  You wouldn't have done it yourself.
[00:17:24]  But the guy walked up to her.
[00:17:26]  He's an actor.
[00:17:27]  I looked at him immediately and knew he was off cue.
[00:17:30]  He had his jacket open.
[00:17:31]  His pot belly was showing.
[00:17:32]  I thought, uh-oh.
[00:17:34]  Why is he on the carpet?
[00:17:35]  Well, I don't know.
[00:17:36]  Why does anybody go down the car?
[00:17:38]  You know, actually, probably, and you know how it is, they probably got him in the film so they could get the film made.
[00:17:44]  And then he thought, let me show up to help my mates, but I really don't want to be.
[00:17:47]  He's there to promote the brand of Hugh Grant.
[00:17:50]  He did.
[00:17:50]  He's there to appear in front of a billion people presenting an award.
[00:17:54]  And for that, you walk down the carpet.
[00:17:56]  The brand of Hugh Grant is to be just what he was.
[00:18:00]  She didn't want to.
[00:18:00]  What a dick.
[00:18:01]  I knew it.
[00:18:02]  Well, I won't call him that.
[00:18:04]  But you can do that.
[00:18:04]  I just knew that.
[00:18:05]  Well, you certainly don't call people dicks.
[00:18:08]  Why not?
[00:18:08]  Generally.
[00:18:09]  What if they are a dick?
[00:18:10]  Let's go to Sharon Osborne.
[00:18:11]  Sharon, maybe I shouldn't have used the D word, but to me, he just behaved like a dick.
[00:18:15]  I mean, he just treated Ashley Graham, I felt, with total disrespect.
[00:18:20]  And he pretended like the job of somebody on a red carpet, if you're an actor at the Oscars, is not to talk to the media.
[00:18:26]  Or if you have to, look like you're sucking lemons.
[00:18:30]  Yeah, I have to say, listen, I love Hugh Grant, but he was out of order.
[00:18:37]  Ashley, yeah, I do.
[00:18:38]  I think he's a great actor.
[00:18:40]  But I just, I was...
[00:18:42]  He plays the same role every time he does a movie.
[00:18:45]  And he did one last the other day on the red carpet.
[00:18:48]  He plays a slightly dimwit, soppish, buddy.
[00:18:50]  I'm playing with it on the red carpet.
[00:18:54]  Because the thing is, if you don't want to talk to press, if you are bored by it all, don't do the carpet.
[00:19:02]  That's the way it is.
[00:19:03]  If you know you're not in the mood to talk to press, don't do it.
[00:19:08]  Yes, I completely agree.
[00:19:10]  Now, the other rule of the Oscars, because it was, I've got to say, I watched it all.
[00:19:14]  It was long for over three and a half hours again.
[00:19:17]  They put back all those awards which we thought we'd got rid of last year for all the production stuff, which is important in Hollywood to people in the industry, but nobody outside of Hollywood cares about all these little awards which then take up all the time.
[00:19:31]  But then somebody forgot another golden rule, Sharon, which was when you lose, you've got to try and pretend you're happy for the people who win.
[00:19:42]  But this is something Angela Bassett did not get the memo on.
[00:19:45]  Take a look.
[00:19:48]  Jamie Lee Curtis!
[00:19:53]  I mean, it's like she literally was sucking or inhaling a large bottle of particularly toxic vinegar.
[00:20:01]  She could not contain her disgust.
[00:20:03]  My argument about this, Sharon, is she's supposed to be an actress.
[00:20:06]  I mean, surely in that moment, what you do is you just act your way out of it.
[00:20:11]  You pretend you're happy for Jamie Lee Curtis, don't you?
[00:20:16]  Yeah, it's...
[00:20:18]  I listen, I get it, the disappointment.
[00:20:22]  That's why I never let Aussie go to award shows.
[00:20:25]  I just won't do it.
[00:20:26]  You don't want to be on camera when you didn't win.
[00:20:30]  But the thing is, hey, listen, she knew she would be on camera.
[00:20:37]  She did what she felt.
[00:20:39]  So, you know, she didn't play the game.
[00:20:41]  She didn't pretend.
[00:20:42]  She didn't applaud.
[00:20:44]  So, you know, she's got to live with it.
[00:20:46]  She knew what she was doing.
[00:20:48]  She's such an experienced actress.
[00:20:50]  She knows the game.
[00:20:52]  Yeah.
[00:20:52]  What do you think?
[00:20:53]  I think he was sharing the same, but you know, they're actors.
[00:20:57]  And I think what happened last year was Will Smith opened the door to reality.
[00:21:02]  So nobody's pretending anymore.
[00:21:05]  And I have to say, when she didn't know what he was referring to when he said Van Dyfair, I sort of rolled my eyes too.
[00:21:12]  Oh, that's a great.
[00:21:13]  Yeah, no, but you can understand because the big party at the Oscars is about to be a family.
[00:21:16]  No, no, no, but I just thought, whoa.
[00:21:18]  And so he played Hugh Grant, and that's what he did.
[00:21:20]  Okay, we've got two people who didn't get the memo.
[00:21:22]  Somebody who did get the memo right, I felt, because I've always felt if I ever won an Oscar, and I admit this is an unlikely aspiration at this stage, although to remind people, I have appeared as myself in nine movies that have grossed $2.3 billion.
[00:21:36]  You got no nomination.
[00:21:37]  Which means I've actually grossed more than people like Will Smith.
[00:21:41]  However, I don't want to boast about my movie creative.
[00:21:44]  I'm just pointing it out.
[00:21:45]  Nine movies, $2.3 billion.
[00:21:48]  It's a statistical fact.
[00:21:50]  But if I ever did win an Oscar, I would make, I just think you keep the speech short, heartfelt.
[00:21:56]  You thank your mum.
[00:21:58]  You tell a little bit about your journey to get there, and then you melt the applause and go away.
[00:22:03]  Ki Hui Kwan, who won the best supporting actor for Everything, Everywhere, All At Once, which won everything last night.
[00:22:10]  I thought he made one of the great Oscar speeches.
[00:22:13]  We'll take a little look at the clip here.
[00:22:16]  My journey started on a boat.
[00:22:18]  I spent a year in a refugee camp, and somehow I ended up here on Hollywood's biggest stage.
[00:22:30]  They say stories like this only happen in the movies.
[00:22:34]  I cannot believe it's happening to me.
[00:22:37]  This, this is the American dream.
[00:22:42]  You know what, Bonnie?
[00:22:43]  That right there was the American dream.
[00:22:46]  Yes, that was a beautiful speech.
[00:22:48]  But what you're not accepting, you like the beautiful parts of the realness of the Oscars and not the ugly parts of the realness of the Oscars.
[00:22:57]  And that was you're missing my point.
[00:23:00]  I like the reality.
[00:23:01]  I like Hugh Grant showing us what a dicky is.
[00:23:04]  I like Angela Bassett showing us she's a bad loser because it's the truth.
[00:23:08]  We're not trying to hide it.
[00:23:10]  It doesn't mean to say that it's good what they're doing or that we can't criticize.
[00:23:13]  I don't know what good means.
[00:23:14]  I like real and that's what it was.
[00:23:16]  Even when people are disbehaving gracelessly.
[00:23:18]  Well, well, you know, some people are not like that.
[00:23:22]  On this one, Sharon, I thought this guy, Ki Hui Kwan, it was a really moving speech, but also that story, what a story that is.
[00:23:30]  He came from Vietnam.
[00:23:32]  His family fled Vietnam in a boat.
[00:23:34]  They go to Hong Kong.
[00:23:35]  They eventually come through the refugee program into America.
[00:23:39]  And there he is, winning an Oscar.
[00:23:41]  And you think about all the debate going on right now in the UK about these people trying to come in on boats, some deservedly, some not deservedly, and so on.
[00:23:50]  It was a vivid reminder that actual genuine refugees do need help.
[00:23:56]  And if they do get the help, they can live a dream like that.
[00:24:02]  Absolutely.
[00:24:03]  I mean, he's living proof.
[00:24:05]  But I mean, that speech was so heartfelt.
[00:24:08]  I mean, I think everyone all over the world was so taken and in tears by his speech.
[00:24:14]  Have you been to the Oscars, Sharon?
[00:24:16]  Have you ever sat through it?
[00:24:18]  Yes.
[00:24:19]  Is it as torturous as people tell me it is?
[00:24:23]  Yeah, because you're thirsty and hungry and you want to go to the bathroom.
[00:24:27]  Wow.
[00:24:28]  Have you worked with you for years on America?
[00:24:30]  Well, I've got to say, I've been working with you for four years and America's got talent.
[00:24:33]  If you were any one of those three things, all hell used to break loose.
[00:24:36]  What was it like when all three were the problem?
[00:24:40]  It's uncomfortable, Piers.
[00:24:42]  You get uncomfortable.
[00:24:45]  It is incredibly uncomfortable.
[00:24:46]  And I think one of the biggest winners of the night was Glenn Close, who was supposed to be there and presenting an award, but got COVID at the last minute and couldn't attend, which I think is the Steve McQueen Great Escape Award.
[00:24:59]  Because I just couldn't.
[00:25:00]  Because you have to sit there.
[00:25:01]  It's three and a half hours.
[00:25:02]  It's a ceremony.
[00:25:03]  But you have to sit there, Bonnie, for four and a half hours.
[00:25:05]  They don't want to escape because of COVID, though.
[00:25:07]  They get you in an hour before.
[00:25:08]  Four and a half hours you sit there.
[00:25:09]  No food, no drink.
[00:25:12]  It's a nightmare.
[00:25:13]  Well, have you been to Catholic school?
[00:25:14]  Catholic school.
[00:25:15]  Yeah, that's my background.
[00:25:17]  No biggie, no biggie.
[00:25:19]  Sharon, do you think on the Oscars generally, each year the ratings seem to dip, like all award ceremonies now?
[00:25:25]  I think people, in a way, the pandemic sped all this up.
[00:25:29]  It's like, are people done with awards ceremonies?
[00:25:31]  Are they done with watching a bunch of very rich, very famous people telling each other how great they are?
[00:25:39]  I think that award shows now aren't really popular at all.
[00:25:44]  I think they're very passe and it's like, oh, another award show, another award show.
[00:25:50]  Here we go again.
[00:25:51]  Listen, the Oscars years ago were fantastic and the hosts were amazing.
[00:25:58]  But it just seems to have been watered down and down.
[00:26:02]  And it just seems that the hosts are reading off teleprompter.
[00:26:06]  I was also struck last night, Bonnie.
[00:26:09]  There were a lot of big stars weren't there.
[00:26:12]  All the ones you normally see, like Meryl Streep and all these, you know, Tom Cruise couldn't be bothered.
[00:26:16]  James Cameron couldn't be bothered.
[00:26:17]  A lot of the really big, iconic figures in Hollywood just couldn't be bothered to go.
[00:26:21]  I'm with Sharon.
[00:26:22]  I grew up on the Oscars.
[00:26:23]  And I used to just every year, I wanted to be there.
[00:26:27]  It was glorious.
[00:26:27]  So they all used to go and it was incredible.
[00:26:29]  Everybody was there.
[00:26:30]  There was a big band.
[00:26:31]  There was music.
[00:26:32]  There was entertainment.
[00:26:33]  There was all this.
[00:26:34]  Now it's like a corporate event that we just get invited to and it's very twee.
[00:26:40]  Yeah.
[00:26:40]  And it's very sad.
[00:26:41]  I've got the answer.
[00:26:42]  They should have one more next year.
[00:26:44]  Go on, Sharon.
[00:26:46]  No, I was going to say, Bonnie, do you remember when Billy Crystal used to go?
[00:26:50]  Oh my goodness.
[00:26:51]  Oh my goodness.
[00:26:52]  Or David Niven when the streaker went by.
[00:26:57]  And you really sadly were really anxious.
[00:26:59]  You didn't know who was going to win.
[00:27:01]  There were no odds put out there in the street where you thought, oh, I know that movie's going to win and it wins.
[00:27:06]  You never knew.

=== War Zone Injuries and Evacuations (09:20) ===

[00:27:08]  There were big bands and played off the streets.
[00:27:10]  I have the solution.
[00:27:11]  I have a solution.
[00:27:12]  It's clearly run its course.
[00:27:13]  It's not glamorous anymore.
[00:27:15]  Right.
[00:27:15]  So what we should do is kill it off.
[00:27:17]  We have one more Oscars next year and we just unleash Ricky Gervais for four hours.
[00:27:24]  And he basically spray guns.
[00:27:26]  He spray guns the entire room and then he has a deep bow and that's it.
[00:27:30]  And we play and then at the end they do the music and he's carried off.
[00:27:33]  That would be it.
[00:27:34]  Sharon, great to see you.
[00:27:36]  Great to talk to you.
[00:27:37]  And Johnny, lovely to see you.
[00:27:38]  Thank you very much indeed.
[00:27:40]  Well a bit of a gear change now because coming next tonight is the Fox News war reporter Benjamin Hall.
[00:27:45]  Used to telling the stories of people whose lives have been torn about by war, but last year he became a story after being horrendously injured in a missile strike in Ukraine.
[00:27:55]  He joins me next to tell his extraordinary story.
[00:28:10]  Welcome back.
[00:28:11]  A year ago, tomorrow, my next guest was reporting from Kyiv in Ukraine.
[00:28:15]  It was meant to be his last ever job on the front line.
[00:28:18]  Fox News correspondent Benjamin Hall was covering the war in Ukraine when he and his crew were hit by a Russian missile strike that left two of his colleagues and two Ukrainian soldiers dead, and Benjamin with horrific injuries.
[00:28:31]  Well, he has a new book out about these experiences.
[00:28:33]  It's called Saved, a war reporter's mission to make it home.
[00:28:36]  It's hit number one in the charts in America ahead of its release here on Thursday.
[00:28:41]  And Benjamin, I'm thrilled to say, joins me now.
[00:28:43]  Benjamin, great to talk to you.
[00:28:46]  It really is, because when this happened, it was such an appalling attack.
[00:28:51]  And no one was quite sure about the scale of your injuries, but we knew that four other people had been killed.
[00:28:56]  And frankly, it's a miracle that you're here at all.
[00:29:01]  It is.
[00:29:02]  And I think back to that day, you know, constantly.
[00:29:05]  And I remind myself that still being here is the luckiest thing that happened to me.
[00:29:09]  And as a result, we've got to be totally optimistic every day and make the most out of life.
[00:29:14]  I was the only one who survived.
[00:29:16]  Very badly injured.
[00:29:17]  I lost my leg.
[00:29:18]  I lost my other foot, eyesight in one eye, shrapnel in the eye, and very badly burnt.
[00:29:24]  But I've had a whole year to recover, a whole year to push on through.
[00:29:28]  And I finally made it.
[00:29:29]  And I want to come back and tell the story, not only of how I was injured, but how I recovered and all the incredible people who came to evacuate me, to save me, and to bring me back one year on.
[00:29:38]  Well, it is an extraordinary story.
[00:29:40]  I know you've talked about this before, but for our audience, you haven't heard this.
[00:29:45]  Take me back to that day.
[00:29:48]  This was right at the start of the war, and the Russians were trying to take Kyiv.
[00:29:53]  What happened?
[00:29:56]  Well, we were filming that day just outside Kyiv in a village called Harenka, totally abandoned.
[00:30:00]  It had been bombed to the ground, and we were just filming, recording, showing what the Russians had done.
[00:30:05]  And as we were making our way back to the capital city, back to Kyiv, we stopped at an abandoned checkpoint and out of nowhere the first bomb came whistling overhead and landed about 30 feet in front of the car.
[00:30:16]  We tried to get the car backwards and the car stalled and so cameraman, my cameraman Pierre shouted, out of the car, get out of the car.
[00:30:23]  And the next second, the second bomb landed right next to the car.
[00:30:26]  And that's when I got a lot of the facial injuries and the shrapnel in my face and I blacked out.
[00:30:31]  And as I was sitting there, unconscious, my daughter came to me.
[00:30:35]  I saw my daughters right in front of me.
[00:30:38]  And they said to me, they said, Daddy, you've got to get out of the car.
[00:30:42]  And I opened my eyes.
[00:30:44]  I came to.
[00:30:45]  I crawled.
[00:30:45]  I pulled myself out of the car.
[00:30:47]  And then the third bomb hit the car itself.
[00:30:50]  That one threw me away.
[00:30:51]  And I woke up a little bit later and I was on fire, badly injured, and was lying there next to our cameraman Pierre, who at the beginning was still alive.
[00:31:00]  But there was no cell phone reception.
[00:31:02]  There was no way of telling anyone what had happened.
[00:31:04]  And I was there for about 40 minutes with my injuries, trying to figure out how to get home, how to get home to my family.
[00:31:10]  And I thought to myself, no matter what happens today, I'm going to find a way home.
[00:31:13]  I will do it.
[00:31:14]  And then amazingly, a Ukrainian Special Forces car drove past.
[00:31:18]  It didn't see us the first time.
[00:31:20]  But I crawled my way up.
[00:31:21]  I pulled my way through the dirt up towards the road.
[00:31:24]  And amazingly, it got lost and the car came back.
[00:31:27]  And I was ready, and I had a handful of grit and dirt.
[00:31:29]  And I threw it at the car, and they saw me.
[00:31:32]  And that was the moment about 40 minutes later that I was finally saved.
[00:31:35]  And I hadn't felt any pain till that moment.
[00:31:38]  The adrenaline had been kicking in, but the moment that they grabbed me and pulled me along the floor to throw me into the back of that van, I felt it all.
[00:31:45]  All in one second, it came back, and the skin all, well, I won't give you the details, but that was where the next step began, where I had to learn how to get through it.
[00:31:54]  Having covered war and reported on other people who'd gone through this kind of terrible experience, what was the reality like for you to then be actually living it yourself?
[00:32:07]  Yeah, it's really interesting.
[00:32:09]  And for years, I've seen people who have had horrible events happen to them.
[00:32:12]  I've seen people, you know, lose their lives and be badly injured.
[00:32:14]  And I always wondered, how would I react?
[00:32:17]  How would it be for me?
[00:32:20]  And I suppose I'm just very lucky.
[00:32:22]  From the minute this happened, I realized that we had to get through it, that I had to get through it as best I could.
[00:32:28]  And that if one day, for example, I could walk two steps with my new prosthetic legs, the day after that I would walk three steps.
[00:32:35]  No matter how much the pain was one day, I would always do more than I did the day before.
[00:32:39]  And I think you get pushed to the limits and you have to learn a new strength inside you.
[00:32:43]  And there were times on the evacuation.
[00:32:45]  I was evacuated on the Polish Prime Minister's train.
[00:32:48]  There was this covert mission to come in and get me.
[00:32:50]  Incredible story by Save Our Allies.
[00:32:53]  It's an American group that helps evacuate people who are in harm.
[00:32:57]  But I remember on that train ride out without any pain meds, having to figure out you have to get through some of the worst pain today and you have to figure out how you're going to do it.
[00:33:04]  And I dug deep and I thought, when I thought I couldn't do it, I thought there has to be another level inside you, another level to grit to hold on, to realize that if you stick together, you can survive.
[00:33:14]  So having finally gone through this myself, that's what I learned.
[00:33:17]  I realized that inside all of us, and I think it's true, all of us, when you have to, if you've got to do something, no matter how hard it is, you find a way.
[00:33:24]  You keep doing it and you keep being optimistic about it.
[00:33:27]  Yeah, I mean, you've got extraordinary spirit about this, I have to say.
[00:33:31]  What are your feelings about the fact that four people, including two journalism colleagues, died in this attack?
[00:33:39]  I mean, do you think about that a lot and reflect on that?
[00:33:42]  I think about it every single day.
[00:33:44]  And I think back to when I was lying there next to Pierre, someone who was like a brother to me.
[00:33:49]  I'd known him for many years.
[00:33:51]  And, you know, the four others didn't die.
[00:33:54]  And I think that first of all, that we A, have to continue doing the job we've always done.
[00:33:58]  It is essential to keep telling the stories from inside war zones so that people back home, our viewers in our audience, they know exactly what's going on.
[00:34:05]  But I also think that Pierre would have wanted me to pick myself up and to live just as Pierre would have done.
[00:34:11]  And that is to make the most out of life, go out and help as many people as I can, go and do the best for my job and for my family.
[00:34:16]  And that's what I do.
[00:34:17]  So I think about him dearly.
[00:34:18]  I remember him closely every single day.
[00:34:21]  But it gives me strength and it reminds me never to give up, just to keep on doing it.
[00:34:25]  What are your thoughts now, Benjamin, about the war?
[00:34:27]  We're a year on now, a year on from your appalling incident, but a year on with the war.
[00:34:32]  It's still raging as brutally as it ever has done.
[00:34:36]  What are your thoughts about it?
[00:34:37]  Yeah.
[00:34:38]  You know, in one sense, I think that we're in an incredible position and that Russia hasn't taken over the country.
[00:34:44]  But in another sense, I think we've reached a stalemate.
[00:34:46]  And I just feel that what we see at the moment is something that could go on for years.
[00:34:50]  If Putin's aim was to tear apart the country, he's done that in a sense.
[00:34:57]  And I just think it's the Ukrainians are holding on because of the support that they're given by NATO, by the US, the UK, and other countries.
[00:35:05]  So I think Putin at the moment is waiting to see if that support dries up.
[00:35:11]  If the West stops giving money over the coming years, then he might have another shot at it.
[00:35:16]  But I think we've entered a stalemate at the moment.
[00:35:18]  And the idea that there may be some peace accord and that this war ends anytime in the near future, that's not happening in my opinion.
[00:35:24]  And what about for you?
[00:35:26]  Because this was going to be one of the last times you were going to go on a job like this.
[00:35:31]  Has it made you rethink that?
[00:35:33]  Has it cemented your view?
[00:35:34]  Do you have other plans now?
[00:35:36]  Well, you know, I mean, one of the reasons I had decided to pull back was because I have a family.
[00:35:40]  I have three young daughters, my wife, Alicia.
[00:35:43]  They gave me the strength to get through this.
[00:35:45]  But it was one of the reasons I decided to pull back from covering so many wars.
[00:35:48]  But I won't be heading back into war zones myself or to the front lines, but there is an ongoing discussion at the moment about interviewing Zelensky.
[00:35:56]  So whether or not a trip to Ukraine is in the cards, I'm not sure.
[00:35:59]  But I feel strongly about the job itself and about people continuing to do this.
[00:36:03]  Be planned, be prepared, know where you're going.
[00:36:05]  But it's essential we keep doing it.
[00:36:07]  I've covered wars for 15 years.
[00:36:08]  And for the first time ever, I think in the near future, I'd rather not tell stories about the horrors around the world like I've done.
[00:36:15]  I'd like to tell stories about hope and optimism and the incredible people who can pull you through because that's what I've learned.
[00:36:21]  I've learned how all that help really pulled me through.
[00:36:25]  And I would just say to everyone, you know, if you know someone who's having a difficult time, reach out.

=== Running From History Embarrassment (07:45) ===

[00:36:29]  Those little words, they mean so much.
[00:36:31]  And so for my own career, I think maybe initially a segue into some really uplifting, optimistic stories first.
[00:36:38]  Do your daughters know about the involvement they had in you getting out of that car and surviving?
[00:36:46]  Well, I've told them that they saved my life.
[00:36:49]  They're still very young.
[00:36:52]  But they know that I came back to them.
[00:36:54]  They know that we were always to be together.
[00:36:57]  And I think it's a story that we'll continue to tell them.
[00:37:00]  You know, obviously we'll talk about it forever.
[00:37:02]  They obviously know and they see the injuries every day.
[00:37:04]  But I mean, they're my family.
[00:37:07]  They're so special, you know, and when nothing else counts, they count.
[00:37:10]  Family's always there for you.
[00:37:12]  And that's why they're so important.
[00:37:14]  Benjamin, it's great to talk to you.
[00:37:15]  It's great to see you.
[00:37:17]  Everyone, obviously, and the whole Fox family was incredibly worried about you.
[00:37:21]  It's a remarkable book, Saved, a War Reporter's Mission to Make It Home.
[00:37:25]  It's out on Thursday in the UK, this Thursday, 16th of March.
[00:37:29]  I really commend people to buy it.
[00:37:30]  It's a story of hope, of inspiration, of survival, and of the power of positive thought.
[00:37:37]  And I think that that's been palpable in this interview.
[00:37:40]  So, Ben, great to see you.
[00:37:42]  Congratulations on the book and the success it's having, but also the message that you're spreading, which I think is so important.
[00:37:49]  And I really appreciate you coming on the show.
[00:37:51]  Thank you, Piers.
[00:37:52]  I appreciate it.
[00:37:52]  Thank you.
[00:37:53]  All the best.
[00:37:55]  Remarkable story.
[00:37:56]  A remarkable man.
[00:37:57]  Well, next tonight, a Welsh Government Review recommends tearing down statues of old white men like Lord Nelson because they might be offensive to the diverse modern public.
[00:38:07]  Does doing this kind of thing really improve the present or the future?
[00:38:12]  Or is it a load of virtue signalling nonsense?
[00:38:15]  We'll talk about that after the book.
[00:38:27]  Welcome back to Piers Morgan Service.
[00:38:29]  I'm joined now by Talk TV's Esther Crackle, Daily Mail Associate Editor Kevin McGuire, and Bonnie Greer has returned for more in this show.
[00:38:36]  It's a very rare event.
[00:38:37]  I didn't know I was going to with you.
[00:38:38]  Pull me straight out the door into the first available cab.
[00:38:41]  So good to see you.
[00:38:43]  Right, I want to talk first of all about Prince Andrew, because that just made me just laugh out loud, really.
[00:38:50]  This idea that he thinks Estee is entitled to a large check because the Queen died from her dowry in some way, after she bailed him out, we think to the tune of $11 million to pay a woman he claims he never met for making sex assault allegations against him.
[00:39:08]  Pretty rich, some might think.
[00:39:09]  Yes, the heart weeps that he isn't getting his share of the £650 million fortune.
[00:39:13]  This strengthens my case that he should be given a one-bedroom flat in Stephenage as opposed to Frogmore Cottage.
[00:39:19]  But I don't think the king is going to listen to me.
[00:39:21]  Bonnie, you're the great thing of all indefensible royal scandals.
[00:39:25]  How are you going to try and defend this one or not?
[00:39:27]  No, no, no.
[00:39:28]  Where'd you get that from?
[00:39:29]  Oh, right.
[00:39:31]  You know, back in the day, people used to retire.
[00:39:34]  They vanished.
[00:39:35]  We happened to Prince Andrew.
[00:39:37]  Yeah, they just go.
[00:39:38]  Or you go and do so-called good work.
[00:39:40]  Yes.
[00:39:40]  You take, you know, sackcloth and you go live in somewhere and you go, yet you help people.
[00:39:47]  Got off shame.
[00:39:48]  You just vanish.
[00:39:49]  Well, that's true.
[00:39:50]  And there has no shame.
[00:39:51]  Or an admission, you've done something wrong.
[00:39:53]  Yeah, well, he signed an agreement and he remember in the statement, there was some apology to the woman he'd never met.
[00:39:59]  He didn't know, but there was an apology of how he behaved.
[00:40:02]  Now, if he's short of few Bob, he can get a job.
[00:40:04]  He can get Pizza Expressing won't be a higher penalty.
[00:40:07]  I can imagine.
[00:40:07]  But you know, the real scandal here isn't Andrew mourning, groaning, revealing his self-entitlement and privilege by wanting the money.
[00:40:15]  It is the fact there is a 1993 agreement, which means monarch to monarch inheritance, escape inheritance tax.
[00:40:22]  Everybody else in the UK will pay inheritance probably after £325,000 in the state or half a million if there's a house involved.
[00:40:31]  Charles is getting 650 million quid, not paid a penny, but he's expecting us to cover a very expensive, elaborate coronation in Westminster Abbey.
[00:40:42]  Yeah, but you know my view about this time.
[00:40:43]  My view about this is my view about this.
[00:40:46]  If you're going to have a royal family, they should be treated like a royal family.
[00:40:51]  And Piers now.
[00:40:51]  With all the bells and whistles, and then you hope to recoup, as they do, as they do, you hope to make a net profit for all the money that comes in from tourism.
[00:41:00]  You have Henry Valentine's Day.
[00:41:01]  And Pierre is not only that, there is a lot of people.
[00:41:03]  Henry VIII was a bad rant.
[00:41:06]  You know, but there's no history in this country.
[00:41:08]  If you're reading the history of there were not having royals, there always have been them.
[00:41:12]  And in fact, Oliver Cromwell, yes, there was.
[00:41:14]  And Albert Cromwell, no, listen, you buried him with a crown.
[00:41:18]  So on my point, my point.
[00:41:21]  Two days, two days.
[00:41:23]  By the way, Esther, your laugh, which you've just erupted again, is now the laugh that's gone around the world due to this clip which has gone viral literally everywhere in the world.
[00:41:31]  What's happened?
[00:41:32]  If I can identify anything without any need to prove I'm actually what that is, why can't I on international women's day say, I'm Piers Morgan, I'm a black lesbian?
[00:41:41]  I think taking it to a kind of absurd status quite with respect, I think that you'd already opened the absurdity door by saying it is limitless.
[00:41:50]  You can do what you like.
[00:41:52]  Anyone can say I'm a woman.
[00:41:54]  So I simply ask you, why can't I?
[00:41:56]  I mean, this point kind of ridicules trans people to an extent.
[00:41:59]  Actually, I think we managed beautifully to run that clip right after the moment where Esther's laugh erupted.
[00:42:07]  So that was a brilliant bit of editing which managed to ruin my entire moment.
[00:42:11]  So thank you, everybody.
[00:42:12]  But obviously, just before that, when I first said it, you erupted.
[00:42:17]  It's now become the most famous.
[00:42:19]  We'll try and get it for our offer.
[00:42:20]  It's become the most famous cackle in history.
[00:42:23]  We've got it.
[00:42:24]  Hang on.
[00:42:26]  I would have laughed too.
[00:42:27]  Why can't I identify?
[00:42:29]  Okay, why can't I identify as a black lesbian?
[00:42:33]  Well, actually, I mean, it was a lot of fun.
[00:42:34]  I'm serious.
[00:42:34]  I'm serious.
[00:42:35]  If I can identify anything.
[00:42:36]  That's it.
[00:42:38]  That's the one.
[00:42:39]  Anyway, you're famous.
[00:42:40]  I've had people all around the world tell me, who's that girl?
[00:42:43]  Where's that cackle?
[00:42:45]  You'd blown your nose before you came.
[00:42:47]  Let's talk quickly about this ridiculous initiative from the Welsh government to remove white men statues of Duke of Wellington, Admiral Nelson, and so on.
[00:42:55]  They must be hidden or destroyed to create the right historical narrative according to Welsh government guidance, Esther.
[00:43:01]  I think this constant running away from history is becoming a bit embarrassing.
[00:43:05]  I don't know many people in India that try and tear down statues or mourn the impact of the Mughals during the Mughal Empire.
[00:43:12]  It's a uniquely British phenomenon, which I find very confusing.
[00:43:16]  I mean, what other country does this?
[00:43:18]  Eastern America started doing that.
[00:43:20]  Hang on, I have a lot of votes.
[00:43:26]  We take that.
[00:43:27]  Russia and most of Eastern Europe would still have statues all over of Stalin.
[00:43:30]  Are you kidding me?
[00:43:31]  Stalin is still a lot of people.
[00:43:34]  Stalin is still one of the most popular historical figures to be a very good person.
[00:43:36]  Are you comparing the Duke of Wellington and Admiral Nelson to Stalin?
[00:43:41]  Or even by your twisted standards, is that what you're doing?
[00:43:44]  We in the UK would still have a statue of Jimmy Savile outside a leisure centre in Glasgow.
[00:43:50]  You couldn't take a statue of that.
[00:43:50]  It's all about Duke of Wellington and Admiral Nelson.
[00:43:53]  Actually, they were good and bad.
[00:43:55]  Nelson is a bad.
[00:43:56]  They're all in everybody.
[00:43:57]  They're good and bad in you.
[00:43:58]  I still have you on this program.
[00:44:00]  Defenders of the slave trade act.
[00:44:01]  The Welsh government doesn't want to take them all down.
[00:44:03]  But if you put up a statue at some point, why are we so ashamed of all our history suddenly?
[00:44:07]  We're not ashamed of it.
[00:44:08]  We're not ashamed of all that.
[00:44:09]  Churchill, apparently, he's got to go.
[00:44:12]  Nelson's got to go.
[00:44:13]  Wellington's got to go.

=== Enid Blyton Statue Controversy (02:19) ===

[00:44:14]  No.
[00:44:15]  I think all the whiny brats moaning about them, they should go.
[00:44:18]  Bodygrain is a good thing.
[00:44:19]  Well, listen, as a museum person, I do think there's a period when a statue is not appropriate for the public square, but you put them in the museums.
[00:44:26]  You don't have to destroy it, but keep teaching.
[00:44:28]  A statue is to teach and keep teaching.
[00:44:30]  You know who I want a statue of very soon in about three months' time?
[00:44:33]  Mikel Arteta, the manager of Arsenal outside the Emirates Stadium.
[00:44:38]  We'll be talking about Roald Dahl and all this editing and so on.
[00:44:41]  And there's been a new burst of this in Australia.
[00:44:45]  The Australian newspaper has broken this story about Enid Blyton books.
[00:44:49]  Can you believe this?
[00:44:50]  The phrases shut up, don't be an ass, and don't be an idiot, have been cut from Enid Blyton's famous five.
[00:44:57]  This is apparently to protect children, Esther.
[00:45:00]  I think that's a real shame because it removes some really valuable insults from children's repertoire.
[00:45:06]  I took great pride in coming up with a really creative insult as a kid.
[00:45:09]  What are we doing, Kevin, to literature?
[00:45:12]  Look.
[00:45:12]  Enid Blyton's famous five, don't be an idiot.
[00:45:15]  Shut up.
[00:45:16]  Yeah, look, I prefer to leave books as they were at the time.
[00:45:19]  Sometimes you might put a warning on the cover.
[00:45:21]  That's fine.
[00:45:22]  Why?
[00:45:23]  What about you?
[00:45:24]  If you're too sensitive to reading Enid Blyton.
[00:45:26]  Go away.
[00:45:27]  I'm not back under a rock.
[00:45:28]  But the truth is, these are commercial decisions and people are probably not buying them at the moment.
[00:45:32]  And one of the reasons they're not buying them is some parents will not want their kids to be coming across those phrases.
[00:45:38]  That's why they're just.
[00:45:39]  This can't be right.
[00:45:40]  What's happening to literature?
[00:45:41]  Well, as a writer, I would say I don't like seeing writers' work re-edited by people who are not them.
[00:45:49]  That's my first feeling.
[00:45:51]  And these ghastly new people decide to be able to do it.
[00:45:54]  And I have a problem with that.
[00:45:55]  I really do.
[00:45:56]  And what can I say?
[00:45:57]  But, Piers, Agatha Christie, you would not want it to be called 10, would you?
[00:46:02]  No.
[00:46:03]  So there is a principle you can.
[00:46:04]  As with free speech, there are certain things, right?
[00:46:07]  I wouldn't want people to inspire hatred, right?
[00:46:10]  This kind of stuff is nonsense.
[00:46:12]  And actually, to me, it trivializes and devalues the important debates.
[00:46:16]  But it also takes away the writer's voice.
[00:46:19]  Enid is not here to do it.
[00:46:21]  So it shouldn't be allowed.
[00:46:23]  Thank you, Pac.
[00:46:24]  Great to see you.
[00:46:24]  Whatever you're up to tonight, keep it uncensored.
[00:46:27]  That's the key.
[00:46:28]  Free speech matters.
[00:46:29]  Ask the BBC.
[00:46:31]  We just lost to Gary Dennick.
[00:46:33]  Good night.