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Jan. 18, 2023 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
47:11
20230118_piers-morgan-uncensored-madonna-icon-or-enough
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Teachers Strike vs Nurses 00:12:17
Tonight our Piers Morgan uncensored teachers vote to join half a million workers in the biggest day of industrial action for a generation.
But after years of COVID hell, are the unions now using children as bargaining chips?
I'll talk live to the union boss planning to shut down schools.
And more tragedy in Ukraine is three members of the government dying a helicopter crash.
Almost a year into this war, how and when will the suffering end?
I'll ask America's former CIA chief, Leon Panetta.
And Madonna announces a new world tour with her most gruesome, revolting attention-seeking video ever, and the bar was very high for that title.
Is she blazing a trail for growing old with grammar gracefully?
Or as I think she is, is she just an old hot mess?
We'll debate that later.
Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Good evening from London and welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Britain's winter of discontent in 1979 was defined by mass industrial action, soaring inflation, freezing temperatures, and a chaotic government gasping its last breaths.
Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
Nurses are striking again today.
Next week is train drivers again.
Airport staff again.
Civil servants again.
Half a million workers will walk out on Wednesday.
It's the biggest day of coordinated strikes since that miserable winter of 1979.
And this time they'll be joined on the picket lines by teachers.
23,000 schools may be forced to close.
That will mean inevitable chaos for millions of parents who don't forget are facing the exact same wage squeeze and soaring bills as the teachers.
Now they'll be forced to stay at home, miss work and heat their homes at vast expense in some cases.
This is the current education secretary, Gillian Keegan.
We do need to keep teachers and children in school.
And I will work with, you know, you don't need to strike to get my attention.
I will meet with people.
I'll be as constructive as possible.
But we do need to be fair.
And the number one thing we need to do is tackle inflation.
I've said that to you before.
There's no point.
What we need to do is halve inflation.
That's obviously what we've said we'll do.
And go further beyond, but you know, more than that.
Sounds like a load of old waffle to me.
Part of the problem is they don't know whose attention they need to get.
She's the fifth education secretary in a year.
This just doesn't feel like a government that's taking education seriously, but clearly neither are the unions.
Today they said striking teachers shouldn't even bother to provide online lessons for the children stuck at home.
And so while parents will be hit by the literal cost of a strike, the real burden will fall again on the children.
The COVID lockdowns were devastating for kids.
We know that.
They were the least at risk from the virus that transpired, but they paid arguably the highest price.
Now, just as they begin to recover, and many of them way behind where they should be in their education, they're being used as a bargaining chip in a political game.
I understand that teachers feel messed around.
I also understand that they play an indispensable role in society.
Few things are more important than children's education.
That's precisely why these strikes, to me, feel selfish and wrong.
Well, joining me now, talk to VPL Editor Kate McCann, the Times Political Sketchwriter Quentin Letts and Daily Mirror Associate Editor Kevin Maguire and Kevin Courtney, the Joint General Secretary of the National Education Union.
Well, Kevin Courtney, thank you for joining me.
So look, you represent a large number of teachers in this country.
More than 300,000 of your members were asked to vote, but only 54% of them actually voted.
Why did the other 46 not vote?
It was the biggest union ballot result since the government changed the law on those thresholds in 2016.
There would have been more votes if we were allowed to conduct our votes electronically, like we know is safe and possible.
There would have been more votes if we could have voted at work.
But this is an overwhelming result, Piers.
And since we announced the result, about 10,000 more people have joined the union.
There's a lot of support amongst teachers in the classroom for the action that we're proposing.
Yeah, but here's what I'm struggling to get my head around.
I don't understand.
Here's my point, really.
When I saw those numbers, I just thought to myself, well, if the situation is that dire in schools and amongst teachers, if it's that awful, if it's so, so bad, why did 46% of teachers not even bother to vote?
Well, it is bad.
One in eight leave in their first year of teaching.
One in eight maths lessons are being taught by somebody who isn't qualified in maths.
A quarter of physics lessons are being taught by somebody who hasn't got a degree or a postgraduate qualification in physics.
So it is bad.
And the result that we've scored is the biggest ballot result of any union since the laws were changed.
And that's what you've got to get your head around, Piers.
10,000 people have joined our union since we made the announcement.
The action will be very popular and popular amongst those members who want to see us making a standard.
Well, the action will be popular amongst those working for education.
They want to see us.
Yeah, the strikes will be popular amongst your members who voted to strike.
But let's be clear, that is not every teacher, clearly, by the numbers I've just expressed.
And I'm also, you know, I've got to say this, I've got a lot of sympathy for teachers.
And I'm sure, like all public sector workers, they feel aggrieved about their financial situation because inflation is raging so high.
But if you take average pay across the public sector, teachers aren't doing that badly comparative to ambulance workers, rail travel assistants, nurses.
Teachers come in about £38,982 on average.
And they did get a pay rise last year between 5% and 8%.
So when it comes to dishing out very valuable pounds to people in the public sector, I've got to say, I don't think teachers, for those reasons, would be top of my list or even in the middle of the list.
They'd be, frankly, compared to nurses and other more deserving cases, they'd be nearer the bottom.
Explain to me why I'm wrong.
Well, the Institute for Fiscal Studies issued a report last week looking at the relative pay of teachers and they said that teacher pay had declined by 13% since 2010, whereas average pay in the economy had gone up by 2%.
And they pointed to that relative decline of teacher pay as a fundamental explanation of why it is so difficult to get people to come into the job and why we're not holding people in the job.
So when you say, Piers, that other people are more deserving, I want you to think about the fact that we don't have special needs assistance for children with special needs because they're getting jobs that are paid better in supermarkets.
I want you to think about the fact that we don't have qualified maths teachers in many classes up and around the country.
I want you to think about the fact that we haven't got DT teachers, design and technology or computing teachers.
And I also want you to think about the fact that some people who are wealthy enough can escape that problem by going to private schools or by getting private teachers.
I hear you.
But most families are.
I hear you.
Listen, like I said, I'm not unsympathetic to teachers at all.
I value good teachers.
But I also want you to hear and to understand what many parents say to me, which is through the pandemic, their kids regressed.
They just weren't getting proper education in many cases.
They weren't getting the online education that was promised to them.
Their kids often didn't get anything.
So they feel aggrieved about the lack of care and attention their kids have had academically and educationally in the last three years.
The very last thing that they want, these parents, is to now go back to a situation of mini lockdown again, where the kids get told to stay at home and again cannot get the education they desperately need just to catch up from where they've been left behind by the pandemic.
Well, I absolutely agree with you.
We do not want to disrupt education.
We want the government instead to come to a settlement with us.
But it's my experience that Jillian Keegan actually doesn't talk and doesn't listen until there is a threat of industrial action.
And so I think the threat of industrial action is really important in getting the government to concentrate on the crisis in our schools and thinking through that they have to put it right, just like the industrial action by the nurses and the ambulance workers is making them concentrate on the crisis in our National Health Service and the need that they have to put that right.
All right.
Well, listen, I appreciate you joining me, Kevin Courtney, and I hope we come to a resolution before the strikes.
That's what the country wants.
The parents have suffered enough.
The kids have certainly suffered enough, but I appreciate you joining the show.
Thank you.
You have a two-way there where they go, thank you.
Really, not in that case.
We waited and we waited and we waited, but nothing came.
Hasn't been properly taught.
He'd been immobilized by the power of my rhetoric.
I saw you two basically grimacing and shaking your heads.
Oh, spare us.
Well, let me start.
One Kate, Quentin, start with you.
Well, he says we don't want to disrupt education.
They plainly do because they're choosing to go on strike.
So the palpable lie.
Sorry, untruth.
Teachers are reasonably well paid.
They are paid more than most of the parents.
And got a good pay rise last year comparative to many in the public sector.
You didn't mention their pensions.
Fantastic pensions.
They don't have to work all year because they get long holidays, free grub in the dining room.
And cheap as I mean, one's heart goes out to some parts of the public sector, but not to teachers.
Indolent.
Instinctively, that's my problem here, Kate.
I just think there are more deserving people, not least the nurses, who've not had the kind of average pay, not had the kind of recent pay rise of the teachers.
I don't think public sympathy is going to be there in the same numbers for teachers as it has been for nurses.
Well, it isn't.
Polling shows that it isn't.
Although I think it's fair to say that people don't necessarily accept the government's argument that they are operating within a closed window of money.
They think that the government could potentially offer more.
But I think some of the points that were made there about Jillian Keegan, I mean, those talks between the unions and the Secretary of State have actually been relatively good.
In fact, one of the first things that Gillian Keegan did when she came into office was give teachers the £2 billion that they had asked for.
Now, that's what the government is saying is one of the reasons why they don't want to talk about pay because they did revise their pay offer for 2022 and then they gave the additional cash that was asked for.
I think the problem really is nurses, and I know it's something that we are going to come on to talk about, but that's the real sticking point where the government's argument, I think, for many people doesn't stack up about the cash.
Kevin, you obviously want to give all of them everything they're asking for because you're a good union boy to your militant bootstraps.
But is there even in your eyes a ranking of priorities here?
And where do teachers fall?
Yeah, but Piers, you can see why they want to try and restore their pay.
When he's right, the Institute of Fiscal Studies are critically respected.
Their pay is down between 10 and 13% in real time.
Nurses are down about 10%.
But when inflation is raging at over 10%, what can any government do?
You can't give them all enough to cover inflation.
Inflation raging is why your living standards are falling.
And an increase for teachers isn't directly inflationary because you don't put up the price of education because we don't charge for it for the 93% who use state schools.
If you take the Oliver Twist approach with his government and you go, please, sir, may I have some more, you'll get very thin gruel.
He's right, and it's unfortunate that if you ballot and you take industrial action, you cause disruption, you will get greater attention.
The rail unions are getting higher offers finally, and some of the strings that the government were attached are being cut.
So there may be a deal there.
You say, Rangum, yeah, nurses.
I can see why nurses will be the top of the tree.
Most of them earn less than 31,000 pounds.
Their pay is down about 10% since 2010.
I can see why there is most sympathy for them.
But let's not forget there will be huge sympathy for teachers because they communicate with parents all the time.
Madonna's Embarrassing Views 00:02:11
And Jillian Keegan, look, she talks to them, but she's not negotiating with them.
I don't think she wore a £10,000 Rolex watch the last time she saw them, unless she did previously.
So, yeah, she can smile at them and be nice, and they can be all polite back, and it can all be convivial.
But I can't see an end to this.
We're going to keep you guys, obviously, for the rest of the show.
But just quickly, Madonna, in my opinion, hot mess should be put out to pasture.
Your view?
Kathy, I love the way she's growing old, disgraceful, she's 64, or most of her is.
And I like the way she's carrying it.
Your mother or grandmother?
Well, that would be different.
Great grandmother.
Actually, it'd be biologically impossible.
Oh, great-grandmother, all right.
Okay, are you a Madonna fan?
I mean, I don't have as strong of views as you.
I like to watch you have views on Madonna.
I've got very strong views.
You have very strong views on Madonna.
I don't really have it.
She's the new Vera Lynn.
She is as old.
She's as old now as Vera Lynn was when we were youngsters in the 1980s.
Vera Lynn had grace and dignity.
Madonna has nothing.
What I'm just trying to say is I think she's had a day.
She's a great performer.
Come on.
She used to be.
She's passive.
She used to be, but it's embarrassing.
The whole trying to be a sex kitten thing when you're in your mid-60s.
Let's have a look at some of her greatest hits.
My idea of her greatest hits.
Have we got it?
No, no, not the actual greatest hits.
I mean the video mashup of her excruciating moments.
Have we got that?
Here we go.
They're saying, fill it out, Piers.
We weren't expecting it.
Can't surprise her in the gallery.
You could doubt.
That's her off.
Amy Schumer.
Oh, truth or dare.
Dare.
I want you to show me with this spread how you lick your husband's.
What?
I mean, I dare you to do a world tour and play your greatest hits.
That's a lot of songs.
It's a lot of songs.
You think people would come to that show?
I'll be there.
Well, I'll be there.
Okay, so the answer is...
Beyond Casualty Numbers 00:15:18
Yeah.
I mean, very little renders me speechless, I can tell you, but that does.
And we'll have more of Madonna's, well, her recent catalogue in recent years of unbelievably cringe-making things.
That is by far the worst.
But anyway, she's, I'll just show you one picture, which I think sums up my view.
It's this one.
No, it's the one.
Have you got the one of her lying under the bed?
That one.
There we are.
Now that to me, my headline would be rock bottom, and that's it.
She dropped her false teeth under the pods.
That's to us all.
Absolutely cringe-makey.
All right, we're going to talk about Madonna led in the show, but after the break, we can talk to Leon Paneda about what's happening in Ukraine.
You couldn't get many more credible people than him, former CIA director, about what is happening now.
What can they do, Ukrainians?
What can we do to help them?
And what is Putin planning?
You keep being told he's planning some massive new offensive.
What do we do about it?
Talk to Leon Panetta after the break.
Well, welcome back.
Ukraine is grieving again tonight after three senior members of its government died in a helicopter crash, almost a year into a war that Vladimir Putin thought would be over in days.
And that's a credit to both Ukraine's resolve and to the West's support.
But there's no end in sight, and the casualties tragically continue to mount.
So, how and when does it end?
I've still got my pack with me, but I'm also joined, I'm glad to say, by Leon Panetta, the former director of the CIA and former Defense Secretary in America.
Mr. Panetta, thank you very much indeed for joining me again on the show.
We appreciate it.
We've talked before about Ukraine.
I saw President Zelensky was at Davos giving a, he was talking to the people at Davos saying this has to end.
But how do you see this ending?
Well, I think it's very important at a critical point in this war, and it is a critical point because what appears to be a stalemate right now on the ground, in many ways, I'm concerned that it may favor the Russians and the aggressor.
It'll allow them to dig in, to reinforce, and to prepare for an offensive.
So I think it's very important now for the Allies to provide the weapons that are essential to the Ukrainians.
Heavy tanks, missiles, air defense, all of that ought to be provided now in an effort to try to give them the ability to get the edge on an offensive against the Russians.
This cannot be allowed just simply to drag on.
That's not going to help either party, very frankly, in terms of trying to achieve some kind of ending to this war.
Britain is sending 12 tanks, we know.
Others will be doing the same.
I mean, there's a very fine line, isn't there, between supporting Ukraine in this manner and actively engaging in this war.
Is it a line that the Russians may deliberately blur?
Are they trying to indicate now that they may widen the war if the West continues to support Ukraine in a more direct manner?
You know, for a year, Russia has threatened all kinds of consequences.
That's the way they behave.
That's the way Putin behaves.
And frankly, we've gone ahead, regardless of those threats, and provided the weapons and provided the support that is essential to the Ukrainians.
And I think we have to continue to do that.
Look, the fundamental issue is that we are fighting by supporting Ukraine and the Ukrainians who are fighting this war.
It's one of the most important wars of the 21st century, because in many ways, the outcome of this war will tell us a great deal about what ultimately happens to democracies in the 21st century.
So we have a lot writing on making sure that Ukraine is successful in this war.
There was a hideous attack a few days ago in Dnipro on a residential block.
Gruesome videos.
I want to play a little bit of one just to indicate the horror of what is actually happening on the ground there.
I mean, this is in the middle of a sovereign democratic country's city, and over 40 people were killed in an attack on a residential building.
I mean, Mr. Pinetta, when you see something like that, what are we seeing here?
Are these just war crimes?
I think what we're seeing is the Russians very clearly indicating that they're not winning this war.
And as a result, they're going after innocent men, women, and children and conducting these kinds of horrific attacks against innocent individuals.
For me, it's a reflection that Russia is not winning, but losing this war.
And I think as a result of that, the Allies really do have to come together and make clear that we are not going to continue to allow Russia to do this.
So we need tanks.
We need air defense systems.
We need longer range missiles in order to make sure that Russia, their will to continue to fight is broken.
Russia's trying to hope that somehow the will of the West may break.
We have to basically provide the support system to the Ukrainians to break the will of the Russians.
Yeah, I completely agree.
There are two more things I wanted to just to get your perspective on.
One is Prince Harry, the Duke of Sussex, has run into trouble diplomatically now in this country from his base in America with this book he's written in which he talked about killing 25 Taliban in Afghanistan.
And he described what people have accused him of being of dehumanizing enemy by describing them as chess pieces, not human beings, to be removed from above.
And it sparked a reaction, predictable reaction from the Taliban, exploiting what he said.
But it also has now inspired a reaction from Iran, who executed a British Iranian on Trumped up suggestions he was a spy, and have issued a statement off the back of what Harry said in return for the criticism about the execution to say the British regime, whose royal family member sees the killing of 25 innocent people as removal of chess pieces and has no regrets over the issue.
And those who turn a blind eye to this war crime are in no position to preach others on human rights.
What's your view about that?
Was Harry very misguided to put into a book that sold as many as it has done an exact number of Taliban he killed and to describe them as chess pieces?
Well, Pierce, based on my experience, both in the military and as Secretary of Defense, I have to tell you that the strongest warriors I knew in battle were those who focused on the mission and not how many individuals on the other side that they killed.
They focused on whether or not the mission was accomplished.
And I think Prince Harry would have done better to focus on the missions that he was involved with rather than counting the number of dead.
So I think in this situation, obviously, Iran is not a country with a strong human rights record.
So whatever they say, I think we're not to really pay a lot of attention to.
But I do think that he could have handled this better as a soldier.
Would it be sensible, albeit he's already said this, but would it be sensible for future editions of the book, because they're reprinting as we speak, and given the volume that it's selling, would it be sensible for him to maybe issue a statement to calm things down, to express some regret over putting a number to his Taliban kill tally and to call them chess pieces and to actually remove that part from the book?
Yeah, you know, I think that when you start to detail how many have been killed, then in some ways that becomes the issue.
And what I'm offended by, frankly, is the distortion of focusing on numbers of killed rather than the mission that he was involved with, which I think was a strong mission, an important mission to go after the Taliban and those who were involved in the attack on 9-11.
This was an important mission, and that's what ought to be focused on.
So if in some way he could kind of rewrite this or include the missions that he was involved in without referring to the number of people that were killed, I think that would frankly represent a fairer description of what he was involved with in his service.
Look, I'm sure he performed well.
I'm sure he did a service to his country.
And I think that's important.
But I think saying the number of people that were killed, frankly, detracts both from the mission and from the service that he provided.
Yeah, I agree.
And finally, a big story has been brewing in America in the last few days about President Biden and classified documents that have been found at his home.
Obviously, we had this with President Trump, an ongoing investigation into that.
You were obviously worked under the Obama-Biden administration.
What is your view of this?
I mean, is there any qualitative difference between the two presidents here and how they've mishandled classified documents?
And what should happen to President Biden?
Well, there is a concern here when you're dealing with classified documents.
The reality is that these documents require that they be handled carefully, that they be logged in and that they be secure.
And for whatever reason, that did not happen.
It didn't happen with President Trump in a very reckless way, frankly, in terms of the numbers of the documents that are involved here.
And to the same extent, you know, President Biden made a mistake here.
And there was a mistake either on his part or on the staff's part for not being able to secure those documents.
So I think the appointment of a special consul in both cases is appropriate.
We need to find out what happened.
We need to make sure that it never happens again.
And so it does detract from, frankly, President Biden's effort to try to say that what President Trump did was wrong.
The fact is what he did is not correct either.
So both are going to have to face the consequences for the way they mishandled classified documents.
Leon Panetta, it's always great to have you on the program because you always answer questions honestly and directly.
And I really appreciate it.
It's a rarity in public life these days.
So please come back again soon.
I appreciate it.
Thank you, Pierce.
Good to talk to you.
All the best.
We're going to get a reaction to that from my pack after the break.
I'm going to talk about Madonna and this new world tour.
You know my views.
One crinkly hot mess.
Well, we'll come to the slow-moving train wreck of Madonna in a moment.
I want to get the PAC's reaction first of all to the Leon Panetta.
Very interesting interview, Kate, because like I said to him, he gives a straight answer to a straight question.
I mean, on both things, he will have made news, I think, both the criticism of Joe Biden, and we used to work obviously under.
But I'll start first of all with this Prince Harry situation, where a lot of our enemies are now using his words to try and play moral equivalence with their own disregard for human life.
And it's because he showed himself in the book a disregard for human life in both naming the tally and probably more pertinently calling them chess pieces, not human beings.
How does this play out, do you think?
Because at the moment it's a growing international row, isn't it?
I wonder if there has already been some discussion behind closed doors about what to do about that particular part of the book because of the reaction to it.
I mean, it would obviously be a significant climb down.
And I imagine that he probably wouldn't want to go there, to have to remove something from the book as written.
But I mean, those comments to you were completely clear.
It would be good to articulate the wider mission, to set it in context.
I mean, I think there is context in the book.
There is more context than just the numbers.
There is, but what he was very disingenuous about, Quincy, was, as he always does, he immediately passed the buck for any blame from himself and what he'd said, putting the figure in there, calling them chess pieces.
It all became an ugly, evil plot by the vile British press.
Oh, yeah.
Once again, misconstrue what he meant.
And he slags off the press of making mistakes and saying they should always retract and say sorry, and yet he never does the same thing.
We've just heard a respected statesman, retired statesman of American politics, basically saying that Prince Harry is a glumping idiot.
And worse than that, he's completely out of his depth and these are important issues.
And the Americans are horrified to see anyone giving the Iranians any excuse to misbehave.
And you know what?
What's interesting, Kevin, is they've been relying, I think, I think they know they burned their bridges in this country, these two.
They're living in California.
They've been playing the whole media circuit out there in America.
But a new poll in Newsweek showing massively falling approval ratings for both Prince Harry and Megha Markle in America.
I mean, the numbers are really quite startling.
Harry was liked by 31% and disliked by 38%, which is way down on even December, so just before the book came out.
Meghan Markle the same.
Both showing a lot of negativity now in the country where they need to be popular.
Yeah, well, I think the royal family is more popular than they are, which will probably come a shock to them, but it will hurt them more what happens in the US than here.
And you can slag off and machine gun the press and the media here.
But when you have a former US Defense Secretary in your new horn saying, look, I mean, you effectively court-martialed him and found him guilty.
I've been absolutely.
Yeah, I was quite surprised how far he went.
Prince Harry Approval Drops 00:09:43
I think it's too late to take the figure out, actually.
He's not going to take it out because it'll be such a climb out, but the damage is done.
Although, personally, I quite like his account of what war is like, just as we saw the video of what happened in Ukraine.
Here's a different thing.
Killing the Taliban was a dirty thing.
Yeah, but here's the thing, Kevin.
You won't meet anyone in the military, honestly, that does that in public.
You know, my brother's just recently retired army colonel.
My brother-in-law, army colonel.
They just don't talk.
They've both served in Afghanistan, Iraq.
They just don't talk like that way.
His friends have said the same.
It's something that you just don't do.
You just don't do it in public.
You just don't.
And you certainly don't do it in order to earn millions of dollars.
Right.
Well, that's the point.
That's true.
Well, he didn't do it for the public good.
He did it.
No, he did it for his own bank balance.
We're going to come to Madonna now.
I've been teasing this whole show.
She, of course, was a big pop star back in the 80s.
I went to see her at Wembley Stadium, actually, in the holiday tour, and she was fantastic.
But then that was about 40 years ago.
And neither of us have aged particularly well.
I would argue I've aged slightly better than Madonna.
But in recent years, is this auto-cube going to move?
Or am I going to have to make it up as I go along?
I don't mind.
She's, oh, she lost the plot.
Let's take a look at the plot, Liz.
In this room, I'll bet her off.
Amy Schumer.
Oh, truth or dear.
Dear!
I want you to show me, with this spread, how you make your husband's.
What?
I mean, I can't take any more of it.
I'm sorry.
You know, watching someone in their 60s behaving like that.
We've got this other little hit and miss.
Yeah, these are some of her greatest hits.
Yeah, one under the bed, rock bottom, and so on.
Just general, this has been basically what she's been putting out now for several years.
And I'm sorry, it's just there's got to be an end to this, hasn't there?
Absolutely.
I can't.
Oh, my God.
Oh, dear idea.
Gone to the dogs, quite literally there with the old dogboat.
All right, I think we'll spare the viewers any more of this.
But joining me now as music manager Louis Walsh and podcast host.
Leah, hi, Hail Hern.
Let me talk to both of you.
First of all, you, Louis Walsh, you want to defend the indefensible?
Come on, mate.
It's all over, isn't it, for Madonna?
It's embarrassing.
It's not all over, Piers.
No way.
Her tour is going to sell out.
You just watch.
They'll be adding extra dates in every city.
This is a greatest hits tour.
I would go and see her.
Absolutely.
She's iconic.
She's one of our biggest pop stars ever.
You just don't like her.
No, no, it's not that.
Actually, I don't even care.
I don't need to like singers to enjoy them at all.
In fact, quite the opposite.
I don't need to like any artist to enjoy them.
But in her case, I find her behavior for a woman in her 60s just utterly embarrassing.
I mean, if that was my mother or grandmother or something, you'd be like cringing.
Piers, you're doing exactly what she wants you to do.
You're talking about her.
She's controversial.
She's always in the news.
She's her own best PR person.
And listen, this tour is going to be massive, whether you like her or not.
Well, I don't doubt it'll be a success.
A bit like Prince Harry's book.
I don't doubt it'll be successful.
It's just unbelievably distasteful.
Let me bring it, Leah.
Leia, I'm right, Hans.
I mean, you're a young woman.
I mean, is this how you'd like to be in your 60s?
Absolutely not.
I think the whole thing is really bizarre.
I don't know why we're celebrating this.
She looks like she has potentially a mental health problem.
I'm not sure why she's unable to just get old gracefully.
Her face looks deformed, unfortunately.
And I don't know why we're celebrating this.
We live in a time where people talk about body positivity, but she's unable to just accept herself and grow old gracefully.
The video was incredibly crass.
And I think the whole thing is part of a much wider, again, political feminist statement to say women can go on for years being sexualized and doing whatever they want.
And, you know, society is going to love them for it.
And it's not true.
I don't really understand why she's not spending this time in, you know, her later years.
She's mid-60s now with her kids, with her grandkids, maybe teaching them everything she's learned in the music business or in life over the last decade.
I totally agree.
I mean, Louis, Louis, I'm not being funny, but imagine being one of her kids, right?
The sheer volume of embarrassing stuff that your mother posts on Instagram and whatever.
And you just, it'd be so embarrassing for them.
Imagine being a school having to deal with that.
Piers, that's her job.
She is the queen of pop.
She has millions of followers all around the world.
They're all going to buy her tickets.
This is going to be one of the biggest tours of the year.
Absolutely.
Now, I know she's not in a great place physically because the last time she was touring, I was in Miami.
I was in the cube outside and she cancelled the gig because she wasn't in a good place.
But I would go and see her again.
This is like her greatest hits tour, Pierce.
Why can't she go and do the equivalent of a pipe and slippers?
Just go and, you know, put on a lot of clothing, go and sit in a rocking chair and just do the old hits from a chair.
No.
No, she could go to Vegas and do it, but she's gone all around the world.
This is going to be massive, Pierce.
It's going to be controversial, but she's a great performer.
She's a great singer.
You're not her target audience.
Let's be honest.
Both of you.
No, because she's going to do real audience.
I believe that I'm not her target audience.
Leia, final word to you.
I mean, will you go and watch this show?
I definitely am not going to go watch it.
I see no difference between what she's doing, showing her body off to the entire world in the most disgusting fashion to mothers on OnlyFans and how their kids feel in school.
It's so inappropriate.
And I think it's quite disgusting.
All grandmothers on OnlyFans.
I think we could raise that.
Listen, Louis, I appreciate your efforts to defend the indefensible, but I'm not buying it.
Leia, thank you.
You spoke common sense on the matter.
Unfortunately, it will be a smash hit this tour, and people will go.
But then people like to look at car crashes on the motorway.
Good to talk to you both.
Thank you very much indeed.
Coming next, the most watched woman on cable news in America, Laura Ingram, will be here to give her take on President Biden's classified documents drama and what it might mean for Donald Trump's chances of returning to the White House.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
US Democrats are scrambling to minimize the fallout from a discovery of classified documents of President Biden's home and former office.
Leon Panetta, the former CIA chief, told me earlier that Biden had made a mistake.
So will it harm Biden's re-election plans?
And does it get Trump off the hook?
Well, joining me now as the most watched woman in cable news in America, Fox News host and superstar, Laura Ingram.
Laura, your debut on Piers Morgan Uncensored.
I can't think of anybody better to be on the show than someone as uncensored as you.
Thank you.
It's great to be here.
Two quick questions before we get to the classified documents.
Two people we've been talking about in the show so far.
Prince Harry, what is your view of these two, Harry and Megan?
Because apparently their approval ratings are plummeting now in America, according to a Newsweek poll out today.
Well, you know, I always use my 17-year-old daughter as a good barometer for what she thinks of, you know, the celebrity set.
And I asked her, I said, Maria, you know, what do you think?
You've been reading all this stuff about Harry and Megan.
And my daughter said, well, Megan's really pretty.
You know, I like her clothes, but he seems like a real wuss.
That's a 17-year-old's opinion of what is going on here.
And I think that kind of sums it up for a lot of people.
I mean, it seems that the queen, when she passed on, it brought back, I think, everything that, you know, we love about tradition and respect and duty, service to country, service to nation.
And she really epitomized that.
And that was such a wonderful tribute and send-off to her, almost an era gone by.
And he is kind of representing almost 180-degree opposite, at least in this period.
I'm not talking about when he was in the military or any of that, but in this period, a lack of gratitude, a lack of concern for his family.
I like the people who kind of keep it inside the family.
You want to complain, complain to your family.
Totally.
Yeah, complain within the walls of the family.
Otherwise, lose the title and I completely agree.
If you don't like it, give up the titles and just be the new Kardashians.
It's fine.
Talking of keeping things inside, Madonna, New World Tour.
I have a view.
It's not a very favorable view.
I think she's a crinkly hot mess.
Your take?
Well, I'm glad you're bringing me on to talk about the issues that I spend my time focused on.
Piers, this is why I love you.
You never know what you're going to get on this show.
Okay, well, I was in college when Material Girl was the big hit, right?
So we'd be dancing the fraternities at Dartmouth.
It was a blast.
You know, it was that era.
And it was a fun, kind of iconoclastic era.
Well, I hate to break the news to Madonna, but that era is over.
Yes.
And there's no amount of kind of physical transformation.
That's her business, whatever she wants to do with that.
But at some point, like we all have to kind of realize we're not 25 anymore.
We're not 35.
We're not 45.
Kind of act your age.
Have fun.
Enjoy yourself.
But I think everyone from Tina Turner to Aretha Franklin, they understood how to progress with age and be really cool and classy.
The End of an Era 00:02:46
Donna Somers, like all the great recording artists were able to do that.
And I think it's maybe a little bit difficult for some people, but at some point it becomes a little bit embarrassing.
I completely agree.
Right, let's get into that.
Let's get to why you thought you were on Piers Morgan on Census tonight.
Which is the cuff anyway.
I could ask you anything.
But this issue of the classified documents, two things about it.
Leon Panetta, to my surprise, just now, said this.
Let's play a little clip.
It does detract from, frankly, you know, President Biden's effort to try to say that what President Trump did was wrong.
The fact is, what he did is not correct either.
So both are going to have to face the consequences for the way they mishandle classified documents.
I mean, interesting for Panetta there, I thought, given that he worked, of course, on the administration, Biden and Obama.
In a way, I mean, Biden's obviously, he's lost the moral ground on this.
It might be more serious.
We don't know yet what the consequences will be.
But A, what do you think about the implications for him?
But also, what does it mean for Trump, who was obviously very beleaguered on this very issue, but now perhaps not so exposed?
Well, a very interesting poll.
Again, it's a snapshot.
We don't know exactly what it means long term, but an interesting poll came out today by Morning Consult.
It's a fairly well-respected poll in the United States.
And Trump, and it was a Republican primary poll.
And Trump's favorables, I believe, were 50%, which was the highest.
I mean, I'm talking about overall voters, the highest they've been in quite a long time.
And he trounces DeSantis by 17 points.
Some other polls show DeSantis and Trump very close together, or even in some cases, DeSantis ahead of Trump.
So it might be that people are beginning to see that, you know, all the so-called controversies that people think we got him this time, we got him this time, that this is kind of another one of those.
And that in tough times, there's still quite a hardcore group of Republicans in the United States who think that Trump is the only guy to be able to take on the swamp.
He knows where the bodies are buried now, and he'll know how to hire people right off the bat and maybe have his priorities straight right off the bat.
That's what I'm hearing from a lot of people, but it's way early.
I know that sounds like a cop-out, but it really is.
It really is way early.
But I think on this issue, I'm half expecting Biden to find some documents in his dog's bed or something at this point.
Like, who knows?
Who knows?
You know, that dog that kept biting people?
He's back in Wilmington.
So maybe the dog ate the documents.
I mean, I know.
It could go anywhere.
Aging Pop Icons 00:04:53
Laura, thank you so much for joining me.
I really appreciate it.
The Lauringham.
I'm good to see you.
I'm a big fan.
Well, I'm a big fan of you.
I'm a big fan of yours.
Mutual big fan.
It's great to have you on the show.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
Well, still with the pack.
So look, just unpack a few things here.
First of all, quick take on Madonna.
Quentin.
I think you've heard the evidence for and against.
I don't have very strict views on this Madonna creature, but it does strike me that, I mean, she's so old.
When she goes on stage, I think the St. John's Ambulance Brigade need to be crouching in the slips.
They could have a busy night.
Kate, you raised an interesting question in the commercial break.
Yeah.
I want to know when you're going to put my body on lockdown.
At what age?
At what age am I banned?
Can I give you a specific answer?
Well, I think you ought to.
53.
Why 53?
I don't know.
I just made it up.
I mean, isn't there a moment when, as Laura rightly said, women and men, I think the same women are seeing men prancing around with all their clothes off at the age of 60, 70 on a rock stage.
They get too old for it.
The shtick doesn't work.
Women should, like men, grow old with some great shape.
Why should we?
Why not?
Why should we?
Because it's the wrong thing to do to that younger people who have the aesthetic ability to show it off and then we just show less and less as we get older.
But why?
Well, apart from anything else, the old style, you know, we just lost that Italian beauty.
What was her name?
Gina?
Gina Longo-Bridge.
Right.
And there was a real beauty.
As she got older, less was more.
Less was.
Okay, but so why is older not beautiful?
Because things sag.
No, older's beautiful.
But you're saying, but hang on, you're saying, when you're young and beautiful, I don't mind seeing...
I'm not a little spot in your 60s.
But why can't you beat it?
It doesn't look like that.
But I don't think...
But you're being disagreeable.
You wouldn't prance around like she did.
I'm not making the argument that I would.
I'm not suggesting that.
You asked me your lockdown is.
I've just told you.
Well, I might change my mind when I'm older.
But I'm not saying, I'm saying.
She has every right to do that.
But I'm more interested in why you think, because she's an older lady, it's not attractive.
I think older men as well.
Okay?
Yeah, but you don't pick on older men in the same way, do you, peers?
I do.
You don't have a lot of people.
You've got to have a go at Cliff Richard, Elton John, Paul McCarney, all.
Cliff doesn't dress like that.
They're all.
They're older.
Now, there's a fine figure of a man with a cloth.
Oh, my God.
I mean, that is, yeah, I mean, that's a good idea.
You know, the funny little twist of that tale.
Obviously, that wasn't actually my body.
It was a Burger King stunt.
My eldest son was on holiday in Barbados three weeks ago, and a guy came up to him in a bar and said, I'm your father's body double.
And it was the guy who'd actually done that shoot with Burger King.
I never told people it was a fake, obviously, because I looked pretty hot on it, but there we are.
On this other issue in the paper today, Quinn, I thought of it, you know, I read it.
This issue of cake.
And how apparently the main problem...
Tell me about cake, just because I've got a bit of a broader cake.
Apparently, the main problem with obesity in Britain is that we eat too much cake and our colleagues, our work colleagues like these, bring in fattening cake and they make us eat it against our wishes.
Passive smoking.
And that is the big problem.
It's as bad as smoking.
Absolute nonsense.
This is just the complete bossy boots of officialdom coming out and telling us we can't even have office cake out there.
I just, I think they're completely out of touch with the relaxed nature of the British.
Here's the thing.
Someone's put a cake in front of me.
It's one of my work colleagues.
I don't have to eat it.
In fact, I'm in a new year, new peers mode at the moment.
No cake will enter my mouth.
It won't.
But here's the point.
It's my choice.
And in the end, the government can say what the hell it likes.
Bringing cake in or out of work makes no difference.
It's your ability to deny taking a big slab of it and sticking it in your gullet.
If you can stop that enough times, you will lose weight.
Kate.
But I mean, the argument that she was actually making was that, I mean, the stats hit two-thirds of us are overweight.
I mean, what are you?
So why are you saying us?
Because I'm talking about the population.
Two-thirds of the population in this country are overweight.
Most kids, when they go to primary school, are a lot of people.
But the problem is not people bringing you the birthday cake at work.
No, but I think the point that she's making, sorry, is that when you talk about people being able to stop eating, actually, for some people, that's really hard.
And I think...
No, and you're shaking your head in fury.
Well, she didn't say eating cake at work and passive smoking were identical, but she was making a point that 30,000 people a year die in Britain with overweight and obesity an issue.
Passive smoking is down to 10,000.
Most of that's in the home.
So passive smoking is where you're puffing away and I have to inhale it, right?
You're not going to inhale my cake.
Me eating this has no impact whatsoever on you sitting two feet away.
You can be tempted.
The other thing is, who really gets cake?
Cake at work?
It was wrong to say let them eat cake and it's wrong to say stop the meeting cake.
Leave cake out of it.
Thank you, Pat.
You've been great.
Whatever you're up to tonight, keep it uncensored, but not as uncensored as Madonna.
If you're Madonna, keep it censored.
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