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Jan. 14, 2023 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
47:12
20230114_piers-morgan-uncensored-alex-jones-exclusive
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Challenging Alex Jones Live 00:01:49
Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensored, he's the most dangerous and notorious conspiracy theorist on the planet.
Alex Jones owes $1.5 billion to the grieving families of the Sandy Hook massacre that he accused of being actors and a government hoax.
He hasn't so far paid a cent and he's still spreading untruths to millions of people unchallenged.
So tonight, I'm going to challenge him.
This is what happened last time that we met.
How many gun murders were there in Britain?
How many great white sharks?
How many kill people every year but they're scared to swim?
And I'm here to tell you, 1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearm.
Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Well good evening everyone and welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
All week we've been feasting on Prince Harry's grotesque reality show attacks on his family.
Well tonight you might be deeply relieved to hear we're going to have a night off.
Today the real royal show went on.
The Prince of Wales was asked about that book.
Have you had a chance to read it for the spokes?
And he gave a dignified silence as all the royal family have done and that's surely the right way to respond.
And on they went with dignity, duty and it turned out the full support of the British people.
Listen to this.
Well I created a show called Uncensored because I believe passionately in free speech.
In a moment I'll be talking to Alex Jones live and uncensored for exactly that reason.
We've reached a dangerous moment in our culture.
Honestly held opinions and debates are stifled by fear.
The Danger of Censorship 00:02:54
People are vilified, abused, harassed, sometimes even fired from their jobs because their opinions deviate from the sanitized worldview of a militant minority.
I thought that being uncensored would mean taking on the kinds of debates and ideas that other interviewers are afraid of and to a large degree we have.
What I didn't realize is that it would actually come down to this, that the word field, field, F-I-E-L-D, walk in fields of gold, is now offensive.
It's racist.
Reporters on assignment are described as working in the field.
Scientists and researchers have a field to study.
They conduct field work when they interview ordinary people or study biology in the wild.
We have country fields, level playing fields, football fields, walking fields, force fields, the field of dreams.
Not anymore.
The University of Southern California has banned the word field because, as I said, it's racist apparently.
A leaked letter explains that field may have connotations for descendants of slavery and immigrant workers that are not benign.
It goes on, our goal is not just to change language, but to honour and acknowledge inclusion and reject white supremacy, anti-immigrant and anti-blackness ideologies.
What does any of that even mean?
Does that mean that no white person has ever worked in a field?
That might come as news to the millions of white farmers around the world.
Nobody, as far as I'm aware, in the entire sweep of human history has ever used the word field offensively.
It's one of the least offensive words imaginable, isn't it?
Field?
This conjures up nice imagery.
I don't think it's ever crossed any sane person's mind that the word field could have any possible connection with white supremacy.
For those who think this is just one irrelevant set of moronic virtue signallers, sadly it's not.
Our language is under constant attack.
Local governments in England tried to ban the words like ladies and gentlemen and mum and dad.
Stanford, one of the top universities in America, banned the word American because it might upset South Americans.
The British NHS uses words like chest feeding and birthing parent because 0.3% of the population is transgender.
They may take offence to words like mother.
The Cambridge Dictionary says a woman is an adult who lives and identifies as a female, though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth.
What does that gobbledygook even mean?
This matters because it's insidious.
If you have to hesitate before using perfectly normal words like field, because somebody's warned you they might be offensive or racist, then that worldview has already been imposed upon you.
They've won.
You've committed the thought crime they're accusing us all of doing.
Defining Gender and Identity 00:15:32
And anybody who gives a damn about free speech and common sense should fight this nonsense.
Now that doesn't mean that anything goes.
Free speech has its limits.
Even in America with its fabled First Amendment, there are limits.
You can't famously run into a theatre in America and shout fire and create a stampede where people might die.
So there are limits to free speech all around the world.
But my guest tonight, well, he tests free speech to, I would argue, its breaking point.
His name is Alex Jones.
He's a hugely influential, to many people, a very dangerous conspiracy theorist who's made himself hugely rich, peddling a lot of lies.
This is what happened when we met last debating gun laws a decade ago on CNN.
How many gun murders were there in Britain?
How many great white sharks kill people every year, but they're scared to swim?
And I'm here to tell you, 1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms when you've got hordes of people burning down cities and beating old women's brains out every day.
Let's try again.
How many gun murders were there?
Oh, you're going to ban your fist now?
Britain last year.
How many chimpanzees can dance on the head of a pin?
Well, I've not spoken to Alex Jones in an interview format since that day.
He is now, I would say comfortably, the world's most notorious conspiracy theorist.
As I say, I defend everybody's right to an honestly held opinion.
I defend everyone's right to use words of their choice, but that doesn't mean they're not accountable for those words.
And I don't think Alex Jones necessarily trades in honestly held opinions, but we'll come to that when I talk to him.
Very few tragedies have ever moved me the way that Sandy Hook did.
I was on air at CNN at the time that that story broke.
20 children, aged between six and seven, were murdered by a lunatic with a semi-automatic rifle.
Alex Jones told his many followers within a few hours it was all a hoax, a government hoax, a deep state plot to justify seizing guns.
He said that the grieving families were actors.
The general public doesn't know the school was actually closed the year before.
They don't know they've shielded it all, demolished the building.
They don't know that they had the kids going in circles in and out of the building as a photo op, blue screen, green screens.
But it took me about a year with Sandy Hook to come to grips with the fact that the whole thing was fake.
I mean, even I couldn't believe it.
I knew they jumped on it, used the crisis, hyped it up, but then I did deep research and my gosh, it just pretty much didn't happen.
Well, it did happen.
Those children did get murdered.
They were riddled with bullets by an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.
I can't even imagine as a father of four kids what that site must have looked like.
Those parents had to see their children riddled with bullets.
And then they had to put up with years of harassment and threats and disgraceful incidents because Alex Jones fueled a conspiracy theory almost immediately that the whole thing was fake and that these parents who were grieving for their dead children, that they were actors.
I have made my views clear about that.
But I also think that it's right that I should interview him tonight.
He wanted to come on.
and talk to me and to explain what's gone down here and where he's found himself, which is facing a $1.5 billion payout to the families in various lawsuits that they took.
And I do believe that people should be allowed to express themselves as long as they're held to account and they're challenged on that.
And that's what we're going to do tonight with Alex Jones.
So my guest tonight is Alex Jones.
He's over in Texas in America.
Alex, good evening to you.
Piers, it's good to be here with you after 10 years in the biggest news event on CNN in 2013.
So the circle is now complete.
But you just spent eight minutes saying a lot of things that were true, a lot of things that weren't true.
So I'd like to address that right now if I can.
When I came on your show months and months after Sandy Hook, in the CNN studios in New York, I never said it didn't happen.
I never sent people to their houses.
When the internet went totally viral in the next year, questioning it with anomalies, I did cover 23 minutes is what they introduced in court over the next few years a few times.
We're talking five, six shows, what the internet was questioning on my call-in radio show with a document cam on air.
But I did not build my career off Sandy Hook.
I barely, not even one tenth of 1% covered it.
And so to say that I sent people to harass families or feed on the graves of the children.
I didn't say that.
I didn't say you sent anyone to do anything.
No, no, Alex, 30 seconds.
I want to have a, Alex, I want to have a reasonable.
Let me just say, I want to have a reasonable conversation.
I won't get into the screaming match that descended into last time.
I think that's futile for everyone watching.
You are now a very infamous person around the world.
You know that.
A lot of people know about you, what they've read, most of it negative.
This is your chance to explain what has happened and to, if you want to, express remorse for things that you've got wrong and done wrong.
You find yourself in a very bad place right now.
You're facing paying out potentially $1.5 billion to these families.
You said that you don't have that money.
You can't pay that money.
So far, you haven't paid any of the money.
How do you feel, first of all, about the fact that you faced this gigantic, well, victory for the families and defeat for you?
Okay, so you did eight minutes and 45 seconds attacking me.
I got 30 seconds.
I will answer your question in a moment, but I want to get something completely straight.
I came on your show months and months and months and months after it happened.
I blamed the serotonin reuptake inhibitors, the antidepressants.
I blamed the mother getting them the gun on your show.
So the claim that I first questioned Sandy Hook or I first did it was a bunch of professors and a bunch of media people became a huge story.
I looked at it and said, yeah, we've seen WMDs in Iraq.
We've seen Operation Northwoods.
We see Justin Smollett.
Later, we see now admitted in the Twitter files that they had thousands of fake doctors online saying the shot was safe and effective and protected you.
Something you've come out and said was wrong and was a lie.
So I always questioned every major event, but I did not make my bones on Sandy Hook.
I barely covered it on your show months and months and months after it happened.
Here's what I would say.
I'm not going to cover it long after.
Here's what's long after.
Listen, I don't, you may well categorize this as a very small part of your career.
Fortunately for you, it's now become this gigantic part of your career because of the nature of this payout.
So my first final question is simply to ask you, what did you feel about the size of the payout you've been ordered to pay and the fact that you suffered one of the biggest losses of any lawsuit of that nature in modern history?
Well, I mean, it's not one of the biggest, it's the biggest.
And so if you actually want the inside baseball to know what actually went on, I'm really happy to tell you.
Well, I'm more interested in how you're more interested, Alex, in how you built this empire.
And I'm going to come to how you built it in a moment.
You built this empire as a very provocative.
Many would argue they found you very entertaining as well, high-energy, you know, mischief-making shock jock for want of a better phrase, who went on the airwaves and said a lot of very controversial things and built up a very big following and made a vast amount of money doing it.
I mean, you wouldn't dispute any of that, right?
That's not attacking you.
That's just a statement of fact.
So listen, but I'm happy to come on, but you've had 90% of the talk time.
So it is my show.
I just want you to answer.
Well, I want you to let me say what you want about it.
I understand.
Again, I don't want to have a confrontational interview.
I simply want to ask you, as I say, you've built this big empire and now the entire empire has been imperiled by losing this lawsuit.
I mean, you wouldn't dispute that.
No.
No.
I have more than 15 offers right now on huge networks if my system goes under.
Let me just explain something to you and let's talk facts, okay?
Here's a timeline of 10 and a half years since, or 10 years, two months since Sandy Hook.
It happens the first year.
I don't think it's staged.
It becomes a huge internet thing that it's staged.
I have a few debates.
I have a few guests on.
I cover it.
I said, yeah, it could be staged.
So much stuff is staged.
Then I go two plus years, 2015 into 16, never discussing it.
This all came out in the lawsuit.
And then they run against Trump.
Hillary runs $30 million of TV ads, showing edited clips of me saying synthetic event never happened.
And then Trump still wins.
And we now learned after the lawsuits, they hired a high-powered New York think tank PR firm to then make it a huge story.
Tens of thousands of articles, thousands of newscasts about me in 2016, 17 about Sandy Hook.
I go, whoa, those anomalies I heard from those professors and people were wrong.
I think it happened.
Nobody sued me.
Go on, Joe Rogan.
Apologize.
Do a whole apology tour because I wasn't sophisticated back then.
I'm like, yeah, I think it happened.
I barely covered it.
Then they sue me once I apologize.
They have a judge in Texas, in Austin, is as liberal as San Francisco and in Connecticut, sue me.
Then I give them all my text, all my documents, which they show in court, but say I gave them no documents.
They default me.
First time in modern U.S. history, I'm found guilty by judges and juries then have hearings on how guilty I am.
Then they have a false financial expert get up and say I'm worth $400 million.
At the time they did that six months ago in that hearing in Texas in that kangaroo operation, I had like $3 million in the bank.
Well, you say that.
Okay, let me see.
Hold on, but you can't just keep talking, Alex.
Let me just explain to you what I think.
Oh, God forbid, I get a third of the time you get.
Well, you know what?
It's my show.
It's the way it works.
On your show, you get 90% of the time on your show if I was a guest on your show.
You don't want to, I'm just telling you.
I just want to have a normal discussion.
Let's have a normal debate.
I want to play you a clip.
This is a clip of one of the parents from Sandy Hook because you've talked about this at length now.
Nicole Hockley.
And I want to talk after this clip.
I want you to just listen to what she had to say to me recently on the show.
He did his first broadcast saying that he thought this was a false flag.
When I was still in the firehouse and I didn't even know if my child was alive or dead yet, he started off within two and a half hours of the shooting and has kept putting out video after video for year after year after year and calling us all crisis actors, calling our children, you know, either that they were never killed or they were never alive in the first place.
that we're traitors, that were treasonous and that we're government shills.
It's been very difficult.
It's been easy to turn off some of it, but some of these people have been incredibly dangerous.
And when he says, when he stokes this anger in his base, this fear, and then incites them to action by saying, you know, we need to investigate this.
You need to look into this more.
They come at us.
So part of it's just social media comments, which can be damaging.
It's defaming.
It's hurting your reputation.
People, I don't know if I'm walking around who thinks I'm real and who thinks I'm an actress.
It's damaging to my son's memory in terms of his life, his short six-year-old life.
It's damaging to my surviving son because I don't know what he's going to deal with going forward.
But it's also scared the living daylights out of me.
I sleep with weapons by my bedside.
I've received death threats.
I've received harassing calls and mail.
I've had people send me pictures of dead children because they say, as a crisis actor, you have no idea what a dead child looks like.
So let me send you this picture so you can see it.
This is stuff that has really not only just been distressing, it's disturbing.
And in terms of security, you know, I'm just a mom.
I'm just trying to look after my surviving son, run my organization, and make some good in the world.
I didn't choose to be part of this.
Alex Jones chose to tell lies, knowing that they were lies and continuing to harbor that lie and make it happen for his own profit.
What's your reaction to that woman who lost her son, Dylan, at Sandy Hook?
Total garbage.
Never said her name.
Only person's name I said was Robbie Parker.
30-something million views on YouTube.
He was laughing.
Everything suddenly started to be a little bit more.
Your response to that woman's incredibly powerful account.
This isn't a difficult question.
How can this discussion be total garbage?
This is, well, I guess I can't do this interview.
People have to go to Infowars.com later and I'll respond to you.
You're not letting me talk.
I never said her name.
Under Connecticut and Texas law, you can't sue somebody for defamation if you never said their name.
I didn't do any of those things.
I was on your show months and months after it happened and said it happened and said it was Prozac.
I looked at both of the views and they clipped that out to attach themselves to me on air.
I never talked about that woman.
I didn't even know who she was.
You said it was a hoax, you said it was a hoax.
You said it was phony as a $30 bill.
You said the entire thing is a giant hoax.
I thought you were saying that.
The members of the White House have been running the fake bin Laden raid.
People just know there's a lot of fraud going on.
Here's what I'm going to say to you, Pierre.
Wait a second.
Here's five seconds.
Let me finish.
You sent me a list of topics.
Let me finish.
You sent me a list of topics.
I'm going to come to you.
You said I'd come on, and one of them is Sandy Hook.
I'm on for an hour.
Let's talk about the Debos group.
Let's talk about the war.
Let's talk about internet censorship.
Let's talk about the vaccines.
Then are we going to talk about other topics?
Because they live off me.
I didn't make money off Sandy Hook.
They don't live off Sandy.
They're $73 million from Remington.
They live off Sandy Hook.
I don't.
Okay.
Here's what I would say to you.
Maybe one of the reasons that they have a problem with you and what you did is that you were saying on air things like, you've got parents laughing, ha ha ha.
Then they walk over to the camera and go boo-hoo-hoo.
And not just one, but a bunch of parents doing this.
And then photos of kids that are still alive, they say dead.
I mean, they think we're so dumb.
These were parents.
I told you.
These were parents in the grip of unbelievable trauma.
Yeah, listen.
And Madeline Albright, Secretary of State under Clinton, was asked by Leslie Stahl at 60 Minutes that Clinton tripled sanctions on Iraq to kill 2 million people, 500,000 children.
She said it was a good thing to do.
She'd do it again.
I didn't kill 500,000 children.
I question all these events because many of them are provocative.
I understand that.
I understand that, but I also understand the immediate...
What about all the kids dying from the poisoned shots?
Let me just start the scene.
I'm not admitting it causes migratory.
Here's our problem, Alex.
The problem is, if I deserve to die for questioning a mass shooting, then what happens to the big companies that sold these poison shots that weren't approved and weren't safe and didn't happen?
Here's my question.
What happened to them while you're on...
I get, I'm the worst guy in the world.
Alex.
So, Piers, hold on.
Hold on.
I'm the worst guy in the world, right?
Questioning Sandy Hook Claims 00:13:35
I didn't say that.
I listen.
I told them in a deposition that back when this went on, and I started questioning it like nine years ago, about a year after, when I said false flag, I believe they may have protected him.
They may have known it was coming.
Like Uvalde, 75 minutes, the police stood down.
I believe that was a real shooter.
Real kids died.
In Florida, at Parkland, there was a stand down.
The police chief said, well, he thought he'd already killed all the kids, so he didn't want more death.
That was in the news.
That was in the Dallas Morning News yesterday.
I'm questioning Parkland, saying, did they let it happen?
That's a false flag.
To say a false flag doesn't mean the parents are fake.
I apologized on Joe Rogan before I was sued.
I apologized on dozens of shows when they brought this up in 2016.
All right, but here's my question.
Here's my question.
Somebody went on the news and said I was currently sending people their houses.
Where is the video of me saying go to their houses?
Where is the video of me pissing on their graves?
Alex.
It's not true.
They're raising money on my name.
Alex, let me respond.
I want to just try and get inside your head for a moment and see whether you have ever fully comprehended the scale of what happened to these families because as things stand, I believe 20% of Americans, one in five, believe that mass shootings like Sandy Hook are staged.
A lot of that is done to somebody like you with your huge following, which you built up, consistently suggesting they're staged, including Sandy Hook.
This is what happened to some of the families, okay?
Erica Lafferty, whose mother was killed, has had to move five times since the shooting and avoids going to the grocery store because people tell her to show any evidence that they just finished found me guilty.
The judges found me guilty.
That's illegal.
I know.
Let me just finish.
She said it got scary and more graphic.
Things would be mailed to her house that were threats of rape.
100,000 dead are actors?
Jennifer Hensel and Jeremy Rickman, parents of six-year-old Aviel, who was killed, set up a foundation for their daughter.
Soon after, email addresses attached to the foundation.
What about the cops stealed by Black Lives Matter?
Let me finish.
We're flooded with messages saying Avial didn't exist.
That Hensel and others were actors and questions why money was being raised from a fake shooting.
In 2019, Jeremy Rickman, Aviel's father, killed himself.
Friends called Hensel, his wife, Jennifer, to tell her people were at the cemetery where Aviel was buried looking for evidence that her husband had actually died.
David Wheeler, the father of six-year-old Ben Wheeler, who died at Sandy Hook, detailed two instances in which people actually showed up at his home demanding to see Ben, insisting he was alive.
He said people also pointed to a student film he made in college as proof he was a crisis actor.
Robbie and Alyssa Parker, and you did mention Robbie Parker, who I interviewed many times and felt a deep affinity with, and you said he was laughing after his poor death.
Well, he did still.
But she said that Alyssa, his wife, said that the vicious comments on a memorial Facebook page honoring her daughter were so terrifying, she couldn't remember much of her daughter's funeral.
Mark Banston, the lawyer representing you said one of your topics was Sandy Hook.
Here's the deal.
They showed no proof of that in court.
The judge didn't let me defend myself.
Okay.
You just want to sit here and talk about Sandy Hooks.
I am not.
I'm on other topics.
My question is simply this.
When you hear about the impact on these poor families whose children, age six, were blown to pieces in a school.
When you hear about the impact, do you have any real regret or remorse about fueling and hoaxed and they were complaining about it?
Do you let me talk it all?
Adam Lanza killed those children, not me.
A Democratic Party PR firm looked at Trump, looked at me in 2006.
That wasn't my question.
Brought up Sandy Hook.
That wasn't my question.
I'm going to explain to you again.
I'm going to say it again.
The media took what I said out of context years later, magnified it.
Let me finish.
To make a political hit point on me and on Trump, and they blew it all up and then said I was doing it.
They have no proof I ever sent anybody to their houses.
I didn't.
I a few times questioned it on air.
I became super famous.
You said it was a hook.
They've raised hundreds of millions in donations, 73 million from Remington.
Now they're coming after the First Amendment.
It's insane.
And I told you I'd come on and briefly talk about Sandy Hook.
You sent a whole list of topics.
Now I want you to be true to your word and not a deceptive person, Piers.
We have spent 24 minutes on Sandy Hook.
I want to move on to the Debos group.
I just want you to answer the question first.
Before we move on, do you feel when you hear these?
When you hear these accounts of what happened to these families, do you feel a sense of personal regret and remorse that your actions are on it?
And don't feel as much regret.
And that inspires a lot of people to think these people were actors and their kids didn't really die.
Do you feel genuine remorse?
You let me talk for any 500,000 Iraqi children starved to death.
Sam and All Right did it on purpose.
No, I feel way less.
No, I legitimately question Sandy Hook and I stand by what I did.
You said it was a fake and a hoax.
You let me finish.
Attach themselves to me to raise money and to claim I'm doing things to them I didn't do to raise money and to try to take over my life.
And no, I don't.
I apologize before they sued me if I ever hurt anybody's feelings and I'm supposed to apologize forever and ever in some communists.
I just asked you whether you feel regret and remove it.
I asked you whether you feel regret and remorse for fueling this belief that Sandy Hook was staged and fake.
That's the only question I asked you.
When you give an apology, which I've given over 150 times, you're done with the apology.
Type in Alex Jones apologizes for Sandy Hook.
You'll have it before they sued me.
So I'll point you to that.
You're so good at all your clips.
But no, I'm not going to come back on your show in 10 years and you'll say, do you now apologize?
If I sat here and slit my throat on air, it wouldn't be enough for you.
I legitimately question mass events because of things like Operation Northwoods that call for staging mass shootings that didn't occur in the United States.
Look it up, ABC News, Operation Northwoods.
I came on here, Piers, to have a real discussion with you.
And as for money, imagine the biggest settlement ever, fentanyl, settlements for OxyCotton, settlements that have killed millions of people.
And this settlement is way bigger.
And they say Jones refuses to pay.
I don't have $5 million, much less a billion and a half dollars.
So when they say I refuse to pay, if I have three gallons of blood in my body and they say we want a thousand gallons, I don't have a thousand gallons of blood.
Okay, we've got to take a short commercial break, Alex.
We'll come back and we will talk about other things after the break.
Well, welcome back.
Alex Jones is still with me.
Alex, we'll move on to other things.
I looked at the InfoWars website tonight.
You were leading several hours ago, actually, on the story which I addressed at the top of the show, which is about this ludicrous idea that the word field is racist.
I'm sure there are a number of things like that on which we would have complete agreement.
But I also found a piece on your website near the top today, which said the following: Falsehoods have far-reaching costs in livelihoods and lives.
Lack of integrity and conflicts of interest have led to an unprecedented institutional false information pandemic.
There's nothing that dispels false narratives better than personal inquiry and critical thinking.
So the next time conflicted institutions cry woeful, wolf or vicious variant or whatever it is, we need to think twice.
So very strong worded piece there about the danger of falsehoods.
Do you agree with that?
Well, let me answer your question and we'll finish up the Sandy Hook thing.
I wish that I wasn't misled by some of those professors and people that thought that it was staged.
It was a very small part of what I did.
I tried to apologize.
I tried to settle.
I tried to make restitution.
And then they misrepresented.
When I was in the Texas trial, you can look at this.
They had one of the mothers on who lost her son.
And I went on my show that morning and taped it before I went to court.
And I said, I think she's real.
I think her son died.
I'd seen her testimony the day before.
And I'm very sorry that Adam Lanza did this.
And then she went on the stand and said, Jones attacked me and said I'm an actress.
It's all fake today.
And I walked over to her during the break and I said, watch my show from today.
Your lawyers lied to you.
And the next day she came up and cried and shook my hand.
Scarlett Lewis had said, Oh my God, it's true.
I saw you did say that.
So there's a lot of manipulation here.
Look, I didn't do this consciously.
I think their children died, but I think you're being manipulated by groups.
I wish I never would have said it.
We do have to have guidelines.
I have messed up a lot in my life, Piers.
And listen, that's what I said a love-hate relationship with you when I sent you an audio message yesterday.
I watched the intro to your show and I was like, man, I wish I was as good as this guy.
Because I covered the same stuff today, but the way you brought up them saying the word America is bad and the way you pointed out that it's not by itself, that it's a cult that wants to crow language.
I was like, that guy's a master of really understanding this attack on our freedom.
And I wish he knew that I was a real guy and I was worried.
The difference, Alex, honestly, the difference between us, I would say, is this.
I have always strived, not always successfully, but I've always strived in my career to put a premium on accuracy and facts, because I think without that, you have nothing.
I would argue, and this is your chance to dispel this notion, that over the years, you have deliberately and systematically used conspiracy theories, which I suspect you know are not true, to fuel interest in a large number of people who then go and buy your products, which you sell, which are a massive part of your business and have made you hundreds of millions of dollars.
And I'm going to give you some examples collectively.
So let me just read them.
Hold on, we can talk about responsibilities.
I'll give you a chance to respond when I've read them.
But, you know, this is some of the stuff you said on air, right?
In 2017, you had to apologize after promoting the infamous Pizzagate fake story that a Washington pizza restaurant was the locale of a child sex abuse ring run by Hillary Clinton and her campaign chairman.
After 9-11, you called it an inside job perpetrated by the U.S. government.
You said that chemicals in the water, which are put there by the government, are turning frogs gay in a gay bomb.
You said Michelle Obama is a man.
In a 12-minute video, you analyzed footage of photographs proving that Mrs. Obama has a penis.
You said that Robert Mueller, the former FBI director who investigated Trump's Russia ties, which turned out to be Timmy, hold on.
Was it each one of these in a popular picture?
Was it demonic pedophile and said that's a demon guy who would take down or die?
He's obviously not a paedophile and so on.
So here's my point, Alex.
Are you there?
You keep flashing up your info.
You don't need to promote InfoWars.
We all know about it.
Listen, what I'm telling you is what I tell you is on the front page of InfoWars.
I've got a lot of charges and I can't respond.
Let me ask you the question I'm about to ask you.
I read a piece on InfoWars all about the danger of falsehoods, right?
The cost to livelihoods and lives, the problem with lack of integrity and a false information pandemic.
Your website is promoting that thinking that it's wrong to have false information put out there.
And yet the guy behind the website making all the money is the guy saying all this stuff, which is obviously completely different.
Here's my point.
You know it's nonsense, don't you?
You're scared to let me talk.
Your chance to respond.
No, I don't know it's nonsense.
And if you took your time through all those points you just raised, I can back every one of them.
There are more than a thousand university studies from England to Australia to South Africa to Mexico to Austin, Texas, that atrazine is literally making male frogs gay.
They don't want to have sex with female frogs and their populations are plummeting and even becoming extinct.
Boom.
Then 9-11, I don't think radical Islam doesn't exist.
There were criminal elements in our government that it came out even in the hearings that stood down and did nothing.
So you rattle off.
9-11 was not an inside job.
Michelle Obama is not a man.
Robert Mueller is not a demonic pedagogue.
Let me talk about Michelle Obama.
And let me talk to you.
Hillary Clinton, Bishop, child abuse, let me talk about Big Mike.
These are all ridiculous lies.
But here's the point, Alex.
You're not a stupid person.
He's repeated him again.
You're not a stupid person.
Let me talk over you then.
You know these things.
Let me talk.
I'm going to talk over you.
Let me talk.
It was, that is a transcript you have.
I was playing a clip of Joan Rivers two months before she died with fire exploding out of her mouth in a surgery.
She said, Michelle Obama is a tranny.
Everybody knows that we already have a gay president.
And I was quoting what she said, and I was questioning what people were saying.
That's Joan Rivers.
Now, let's move on.
What was the other one?
What was the other one you were saying?
Robert Mueller is a demonic paedophile.
Robert Mueller is definitely, okay, let's talk about Pizzagate.
I didn't progenerate Pizzagate.
It was in the WikiLeaks documents.
A whole bunch of Alistair Crowley, Satanists.
You apologize because you promoted that conspiracy theory too.
Here's my point, Alex.
I don't think you really believe any of these things.
Debunking Pizzagate Lies 00:13:18
I think you realized early on in your life that there was a lot of money to be made from fueling conspiracy theories.
And you have made Jeffrey Epstein from it.
I said Jeffrey Epstein 13 years ago ran an island in the Caribbean with kidnapped children.
I said the NexiM cult was branding people five years before it broke.
No, I had the sources and I had the guts.
I lost viewers saying Sandy Hook might have been staged.
I lost some of my reporters.
That is not true.
What you're saying.
I don't sit there and think of a story I'm going to say.
I've got too many stories here.
And then say, oh, I'm going to lie about this thing.
I said, Jussie Smollett, despite the fact I was already sued by Sandy Hook, I said the day after it before anybody else, I said, I think it's staged.
I think at 2.30 in the morning, 22 below Zero Chicago.
I thought it stuck like guys walking around.
Here's my point, Alex.
Again, here's my point to you.
Here's my question for you.
Believe it.
You are a smart enough person from interviews I've seen of you with Joe Rogan for three hours.
You're more than smart enough to do a show where you genuinely examine stories like Jussie Smollett and you ask the right questions as a journalist would do.
But I don't think you are a journalist.
And you're not certain you're not a trained journalist, but you don't come at it like a journalist.
You come at it as a commercial operator who's made a fortune from fueling conspiracy theories, which are ludicrous.
And to a point of view, let me finish.
Piers, you had me here.
Let me respond to each lie you spew.
Let me finish.
Your goal is to spew lies.
I'm going to tell you again.
I'm going to tell you again.
I'm not against capitalism and the people earn money normally and naturally, that's great.
If I sell $70 million of food and supplements and books and films, and we make $20 million off that, and I pay my crew and my bandwidth to pay myself a couple million dollars a year, that is accurate.
But the idea that I have billions of dollars and the idea that I did this is a lot of people.
I don't think you've made billions of dollars.
I think you've made several hundred million dollars and some of the products included very false claims about diet supplements and toothpaste, which could be used to fight coronavirus.
And you were sent to cease and disease.
All I said is that silver on contact kills all viruses, just like sunlight.
And I said vitamin D3 is an antiviral and vitamin C is, and it's a fact.
And I also said, Piers, that the studies they'd already done with mRNA vaccines showed they didn't protect you and they erased your immune system and you've had to apologize for that.
Well, actually, just to clarify, they do protect you from coronavirus.
The difference was that a year into the pandemic, it emerged that the initial feeling that if you had the vaccine, you couldn't transmit it turned out to be wrong.
But they do any real vaccines.
They do protect you, Pierce.
Piers, you and others are going to be online today because you're going to stand in Nuremberg too.
You're going to stand in Nuremberg too.
Did you get money from big pharma?
No, I didn't get it.
All these other media people.
We're going to take, yeah, listen, the vaccines work.
Did you get money?
The vaccines.
Did you get money like CM for pushing prozone?
Millions of lies.
However, let's take a short break.
I want to come back with our final segment.
It does.
I want to ask you one last question in the final segment.
InfoWars.com.
Welcome back to my final segment with Alex Jones.
Alex, on January the 6th, the infamous January the 6th, you stood there riling the crowns up by saying, we declare 1776 against the new world order.
We need to understand what under attack.
We need to understand this is 21st century warfare and get on a war footing.
And within several hours, that's exactly what thousands of people did.
They went down from hearing you say that and Donald Trump saying what he said.
And they launched an unprecedented attack on the Capitol, the very center of democracy in America.
Do you regret now what you said at that speech?
No, I don't.
I'd had rallies with over a million people, a half million people before that.
It's an information war, Infowars.com.
We're in an information war.
We were there to have a 10-day investigation of the Constitution.
The Democrats have done it before, just a few years before, to look at what was happening.
We were there peaceful.
And then, Piers, I tried to stop people and did keep thousands from going into the Capitol.
And I've been cleared in the January 6th.
Look at the Reuters.
Just to be clear, do you denounce those who used violence that day?
Yes, I denounce Ray Ebbs telling the Congressional committee that he orchestrated the attack.
And I tried to stop the provocateurs in that operation from breaking in.
We had a million people there.
They tricked a thousand or so to go in.
A few hundred provocateurs broke through the police, similar to what we're seeing in Brazil.
And so I'm on record there that day telling people don't go in the building and trying to stop it.
When I say 1776, I'm saying try to take our guns, 1776.
Try to take our free speech, 1776.
It means political rebellion.
It means an awakening.
It means saying no.
Has one of the lessons that you've learned from this lawsuit with the Sandy Hook families, has one of the lessons been that actually truth matters?
Have you learned that?
Do you believe now that you need to focus on saying things which are true because consequences can be very serious?
You keep trying to act like it was a big part of what I've covered or that I made mistakes on purpose.
The whole currency I operate in is a truth.
And we're accurate 95% of the time.
I've made big mistakes.
And when I make mistakes, we absolutely admit to it.
I think you've done that yourself sometime.
So I'll, you know, here's the deal.
Maybe in 10 years, you're still alive.
I'm alive.
I'm back on.
You'll say, will you apologize now?
I apologize if I cause any pain.
I've already done it.
It only makes them more rabid and attack more and misrepresent.
I went on my show during the trial and said, I love you.
I think you're real.
I'm so sorry for your child.
They went on the stand and said, I attacked him that day.
That's all on record.
And so the problem is, the problem is that...
The political movement is off their dead kids.
The problem is you did make millions of dollars from their dead kids.
It's one of the reasons Elon Musk.
I did not.
It's one of the reasons.
It's the reason.
What do you make millions of dollars off of?
It's my number one book.
It's the reason.
It's the reason Elon Jones.
Right.
The reason Elon Musk has refused to let you back on Twitter is he won't let people on who trade off dead children.
That's exactly what you did.
So Madeline Albright kills 500,000 says she doesn't.
I don't care about you, not Madeline Albert.
Alex Jones questions a mass shooting.
I get it.
I'm the worst guy in the world.
I didn't say that.
Dying corporate meeting.
I didn't say that.
Alex Jones is bad, but here's the thing.
Infowars.com lives.
People can come to my show every day, 11 a.m. Central, and they can hear what I'm actually saying, Piers, versus what you're trying to put in my mouth.
Actually, all I'm putting into your mouth are things that have come out of your mouth.
No, you don't have footage of me saying go harass them at their houses.
I do, and I covered the Sandy Hooks.
I covered the Sandy Hook.
You don't have any of that.
You're not sure.
All I know is for all your posturing.
When those poor families were going through the most excruciable day of their lives, you took a massive amount of fuel and you poured them on a bonfire of campaigns.
What about the deadline?
It's the bottom line with you.
You deliberately spun a pack of lives designed to make the families of Sandy Hook.
What about the family?
And that, I'm afraid, for all your shouting is utterly contemptible.
And we both...
You're never going to get our First Amendment.
And I'm glad you had to move back to England to live under your Islamic takeover.
And when they're arresting people for being in transgenderism, you're using the plot.
So now I have to say goodbye.
But it's been good to catch up.
You said that.
He's Alex Jones.
I appreciate it.
Don't be a liar.
Alex Jones, nothing's really changed.
Other than in the last 10 years or so, he carried on exploiting, particularly the families of Sandy Hook for massive personal financial gain.
He systematically tells conspiracy theories, which I know he knows are not true.
And he does it because it makes him tons of money.
And he's got away with it until now.
But now they called his bluff.
They sued him.
And the family's won $1.5 billion.
And he may not have that, but he'll have to give a lot of money to them.
And that's what Alex Jones is about.
He's a guy who's used conspiracy theories to make money and doesn't care about the consequences.
And finally, it caught up with him.
After the break, we'll discuss what we've just been hearing with my pack.
They've been listening, shaking their heads, open mouths, and occasionally get their reaction off the break.
We'll start exhausted after all that.
Welcome back.
Joining me now to look back at the Alex Jones interview.
I guess you called it that.
Today's pack, talk to you of international editor Isabel Oakshot, Daily Mirror Associate Editor Kevin McGuire, I talked to Viking of Paula Ron Adrian.
We received very patiently because we weren't entirely sure if he was going to walk, which looked like he might do at various stages, in which case he would have had a lot longer.
But what are your thoughts?
I mean, Paul, what do you make of this guy?
He's become the most infamous conspiracy theorist in the world.
He's now got to pay all this money to the families of Sandy Hook.
And he is what he is.
But he has a huge following.
So even though it's been de-platformed by all the social media companies, and even though Elon Musk won't even have him back, he still has a huge following and he's out there broadcasting.
And it's just so dangerous, isn't it, that we are witnessing this, that even after he has had this court case, even after there has been a judicial decision, it still seems to be that, A, he doesn't accept it, and B, his millions of followers don't accept it.
And that concerns me.
I mean, I mean, Kevin, one in five Americans thinks that these mass shootings like Sandy Hook are staged.
A lot of that is down to people like Alex Jones propagating that.
I mean, there'll be some people saying, well, don't give him a platform.
I don't think we're giving him a platform.
I'm interviewing him to challenge him about this stuff he's done.
And I think that that has a place.
I think journalists should challenge it.
Yeah, it's about interrogating them, holding them to accountability.
That's what it is.
I think you were wrong yesterday to think that Shimaima Begum shouldn't be a BBC podcast.
So my argument is really about her is that I don't think she should come back.
And I don't like BBC taxpayer money being used to promote a 10-part series of why I'm not a monster.
Which conveys to people that she may not be a monster.
But I think it's a good question.
I think it's a different situation.
It's all about understanding.
And I watched Alex Jones there.
He's a nasty piece of work.
But I think he's also a deflating windbag because he's very defensive now.
And it reminded me of the end of The Wizard of Oz when the curtain has pulled back and the great wizard turns out to be a little man.
And that's what John.
And Isabel, what did you think of it?
I mean, he did himself no favours.
I mean, there were times when you played that clip of the mother.
And she was an incredibly powerful witness as to the pain that he had caused.
And you said, you know, what's your response to that?
And he said, I was genuinely shocked by that.
There was no humanity there, no compassion whatsoever.
I've been a bit conflicted about this because I accept that, you know, as you say, one in five Americans are buying into this nonsense.
Also, like you, I'm very pro-free speech.
And the word dangerous is used far too liberally.
In his case, I think it's actually justified.
I think the diversity.
When you see the consequences of what these families had to go through, even though he didn't personally turn up and do the harassment or cause them the problems, he did subliminally because he's on the airwaves fueling this sense the whole thing was fake.
So the dilemma for us as broadcasters is the extent to which we choose to amplify this.
And I think that's a really difficult ethical question.
Come on, he's the guy, right?
He is clever.
He's not a charlatan, but he is clever.
He's the guy who gets the mob with the pitchforks and the torches to go and burn down the house.
And there was nothing to do.
And he's a bitch, he's not even a person actually to actually believe these conspiracy theories.
He never for a moment thought Sandy Hook was fake.
That's my problem with it.
He makes the money.
Every time he went on the airwaves and said it was a fake or hoax, apparently his money doubled that day.
That came out of the court.
Literally, there was a direct link between the lie and the money.
And that's why, actually, you needed to have this interview.
That's why you actually needed to do this, because he is out there and others out there exist, and the millions are out there that exist.
And can I say that, you know, where Isabel and I disagree well together, because that's what we do, we disagree well, is on the extent of that freedom of expression because it's going to get worse.
We have deep fake.
We have technology.
Honestly, I think the line is you should not be allowed to spew deliberate lies that put people's lives into jeopardy.
I agree.
Where you cause them direct harassment or threats of violence.
That exists now.
I know.
That exists now.
And it doesn't stop it.
Well, actually, it has possibly stopped in because of this payout.
We've got to leave it there.
Listen, thank you, Pat, because you were very patient and you were there just in case he never came back after the break.
Well, you know what?
I'm working on my listening skills.
Thanks very much for the fact.
Whatever you're doing tonight, keep it uncensored.
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