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Dec. 7, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
47:15
20221207_piers-morgan-uncensored-the-winter-of-discontent
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Festive Strikes and Union Power 00:14:42
Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensor, after two years of COVID misery, Britain faces a new plague of festive strikes.
I'll take on one of the union leaders hell-bent on wrecking our Christmas.
Donald Trump's family business is convicted for tax fraud and another of his picks goes down in flames in the Senate race.
Is it time up for Trump?
Well his former Chief White House aide Killianne Conway joins me to defend it.
Plus, it's been 50 years today since we last launched a rocket to the moon carrying a human being.
Why?
Why have we stopped doing it?
The superstar Astro Business's Neil DeGrasse Tyson joins me live to explain.
Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Well good evening from London.
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
The last two Christmases were wrecked by coronavirus.
Pubs were deserted, office parties cancelled.
Many people stayed home to protect their elderly relatives.
This year it's an epidemic of strikes infecting our holiday spirit and the super spreader is RMT union boss Mick Lynch.
Here's a reminder of what he said just a couple of weeks ago.
We have left the Christmas period strike free deliberately.
We cannot leave this action to go cold.
We've not been on strike for two months.
We moved other dates to facilitate important public and national events.
Well congratulations on showing up to work for two entire months meet but your festive tune has changed.
Three new rail strikes including one that callously begins on Christmas Eve will throttle family plans and crush business for bars, restaurants and shops.
Truly Mr Lynch is the Grinch who's trolled Christmas and here's what he now has to say about wrecking our holidays.
The public will lose the convenience of having a train service.
The businesses around here and all around London and all over the country will lose money undoubtedly.
The only people that won't lose money are the train operating companies.
More festive sneer than festive cheer but he's right businesses will lose money.
Millions of people will suffer.
What he can't seem to accept is that is because of him.
The British people have been very patient and sympathetic with Mick Lynch and the striking unions but that tide is now turning.
A new poll by YouGov shows that more than half of the country now opposes these strikes.
It's hard to pose as a workers' hero when a quarter of all Christmas bookings have already been cancelled over transport hell and precisely the time businesses make the money they depend on all year.
And I'm afraid the Kimona virus, as we're now calling it, is highly contagious.
One million workers, nearly every trade union, have either confirmed strikes or called strike ballots this winter.
Britain could face strikes every single day until Christmas.
It's the advent calendar from hell.
Well postal workers will wreck Christmas deliveries.
Border staff and baggage handlers at London airports will scupper Christmas getaways.
Nurses and ambulance workers will strike potentially risking lives just as flu season and potentially another COVID outbreak and winter demand hits our bad NHS.
I've always supported workers and many of these union members do deserve a pay rise unquestionably.
These are desperately tough times for millions of people but most of these people are showing up for work so they can pay their rocketing bills.
Frankly they deserve a proper Christmas too.
Well joining me now as a Unite National Lead Officer Onay Kassab well welcome to you.
Thank you very much.
Why are you wrecking Christmas?
We're not wrecking Christmas.
We're not wrecking Christmas.
Our members take action, strike action, as a last resort and particularly in the NHS.
This is a heartbreaking decision for our members.
Our members are taking strike action because the government is refusing to negotiate on pay.
But our members as nurses, paramedics have also asked me to make very, very clear that this is more than just about pay.
This is about saving the NHS.
There's a crisis in the NHS and our members are prepared to do something about it.
How do you have a crisis in the NHS when at the very busiest time for the NHS of all, in the run-up to Christmas, you potentially are going to put people's lives at risk?
What if people start dying because ambulances didn't turn up?
What if people start dying because the nursing staff simply weren't there in enough numbers to save them?
How are you guys going to live with yourselves?
The harsh reality is that people are dying now.
And this is coming from our paramedic motivation.
So kill a few more.
Is that your position?
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
What if they die, though?
Absolutely not.
No, no, but what if they die?
Directly.
I'm asking you a very particular question.
I'll answer it.
You're responsible for the ambulance workers, right?
You personally.
What happens if as a result of the strike action on December 21st, if it goes ahead, people die because of the strike action?
How do you live with that morally?
People are dying now.
The question is.
I understand that people are dying now.
If I could just finish.
How would you live morally with that happening as a direct consequence of your strike action?
People are dying now as a direct consequence of the government not taking away.
You're playing what a battery.
No, no, no.
I'm asking you not what's going on already.
That is why.
So your answer is to have more deaths.
So let me just answer for a second.
Well, answer for that.
This is why we are sitting down with the employers, with government, making sure that there are emergency measures in place to make sure that we deal with emergencies, even during strike action.
Look, just let me make this point.
I really want you to answer my question.
It's a very specific question.
Yes.
How would you live with yourself morally as a union leader if ambulance workers go out on strike because you can't do a deal with the government and because of that strike action, directly because of it, people die?
No, people are dying directly because of the state.
No, no, you keep saying that.
I know people are dying.
I know the NHS is in trouble.
But let me finish just for a second.
No, because I want you to answer my question.
I'm answering your question.
First of all, we are negotiating with the government to make sure there are emergency measures.
I said that.
I did.
And what I wanted to do is what I wanted to carry on is that, come on.
What I wanted to carry on and say...
You're smoking at me.
Why?
I'm asking you a very specific question.
What I wanted to carry on is consistently refusing to answer.
No, no, I'm not refusing to answer.
Answer my question.
Our strike action will take place over one day of the year.
What if people die that day?
These are ambulance workers.
These are in the emergency service.
There are 364 days of the emergency.
This is the busiest week of the year for ambulance workers.
Absolutely nothing.
Look, here's the guarantee I will give.
If the government says to us tomorrow they are sitting to, they are willing to sit down and negotiate with us, then we will sit down and negotiate with them.
That's the problem.
Will you guarantee me that nobody will die if the strike goes ahead as a direct result of the strike action?
I can guarantee you that if there are emergencies, our members will come off the picket lines to deal with those embarrassments.
And they won't strike.
Our members, and it's been done, our members will come off picket lines to deal with emergencies.
How fast are they going to come off a picket line, get back in their ambulance, and go and save somebody's life when it's an emergency?
I've already said earlier on, we will negotiate measures in place.
Our members will be able to...
You're very good at responding to my direct questions, which are simple questions, by answering something completely different.
No, no, no.
Our members will even come off picket lines if they're emerging.
How long would it take them to get from a picket line to their ambulance to go and save a life in an emergency?
You know I can't answer that in minutes, but the reality...
You don't know.
Here's the reality.
So how do you know they can get there in time?
Piers, you're asking me a ridiculous question.
You said they would come off picket lines if there's an emergency.
I think it's a fairly logical question to then say to you, if they come off their picket line in an emergency, how long does it take for them to get to their ambulance and get to the emergency and save somebody's life?
How about the fact that this is taking place 300 years ago?
Do you know how long 35 days of the year already?
How about, if you want to talk about timing, if you want to talk about timing, how about this?
The fact that the majority of targets with regard to emergency call-out responses are not met?
Isn't that what we should do?
So your answer is to make things worse.
No, no.
It's one day.
It is.
It's one day of the year.
But I'm very curious.
Your comfort blanket is to say if somebody is having an emergency, your members will come off a picket line and go and save their lives.
But I'm asking you the problem.
Well, hang on.
I'm asking...
Hang on.
I'm asking you the obvious supplementary question.
How long would it take them to come off a picket line and go and save somebody's lives?
And you know.
And you don't know.
No, and you know I'm not going to give you minutes that you're not.
But it depends on the circumstance.
You don't know.
Because it depends on the circumstances.
But the reality is, actually, in that circumstance, a lot of people might die.
But we're not just going to rely on people coming off the picket lines.
We will negotiate measures with the employers to make sure that there are emergency measures in place.
At the moment, you want more than inflation rises, right?
We use the RPI more.
More than inflation.
14.2%.
That's the cost of living.
Right, you want 14.2% pay rises.
Yes.
Busting inflation.
Yes.
Right.
And you think, presumably, you think all public sector workers should get the same?
Who are all striking?
Well, we.
Or are you the special ones?
No, no.
Should they all get the same?
Not the special ones.
Should they all get the same?
We organise across 41 different sectors.
We don't think any worker should be treated better than the others.
Right, so everybody.
Okay, I hear you.
I hear you.
I hear you.
So everybody should get 14.2% pay rates.
Everybody deserves a decent pay increase.
That's the pressure of the cost of living.
I don't mean to be mean or rude, but you never actually answer my question.
You just smirk or laugh, which I find really bizarre, given you represent ambulance workers in a potential emergency.
So let me just try again.
Do you believe then, if everyone should be treated the same, that everyone should get a 14.2% pay rise?
We believe every worker should be entitled to a cost of living increase.
So 14.2%.
Hang on.
Don't say look and ask something else.
No, no.
I want to clarify what you're doing.
Hang on.
I asked the questions.
Yes.
14.2% for every public sector worker that's what you think.
We believe every public sector workers.
This is complete madness.
If you could just let me finish for once.
Why?
Your plan is to bankrupt the country.
No, no, no, no.
But we're already on the verge of it thanks to the incompetent government.
14.2%.
Everybody gets 14.2%.
You bankrupt Britain.
No, no, we don't.
Yes, you do.
No, we don't.
14.2% is the RPI measure of inflation.
It's the cost of living increase.
However, here's the reality.
We've been willing to make concessions.
Our negotiators, time and time.
You just said you want 14.2%?
Yes.
Yes, that's it.
For everybody.
That's what we think people deserve.
For everyone.
However.
It's complete insanity.
That's what we think people deserve.
This is where you lose people like me who believe actually that workers should be properly remunerated.
I believe they've had a tough time.
And I'm glad you do.
Particularly in relation to the NHS went out and clapped every Thursday.
I think ambulance workers are fantastic.
But claps.
Claps don't pay the rent.
No, Pierre.
But I tell you what, it doesn't pay the rent.
Demanding pay rises, which bankrupt the country, doesn't pay the rent.
It's not going to pay for the rent.
That actually has the opposite effect.
That sends inflation rocketing even higher.
It means that the country basically goes budget.
You can't deal with that specific point.
Yes.
Our position is that workers deserve an RPI pay increases.
However, we've been involved in negotiations and yes, we have settled in a number of cases.
You're just telling me you want 14.2%.
Yes, I want 14.2%.
I want 14.2%, but we've been willing to negotiate.
So here's the problem with the people.
We've been willing to settle below that.
I think what's happening is, I think you and your fellow union leaders, all of whom are Labour people, I think you sensed blub with the Conservative government.
Understandably, they're on their knees.
They've been, frankly, catastrophic in the last year in particular.
We've had one Prime Minister who couldn't last longer than a lettuce, right?
It's embarrassing for the country.
But I think you're all getting together and I think you've all decided you're going to try and bring this government down to get a Labour government in power.
And I think you don't really care how much damage you cause to ordinary people to get there.
And at that point, I think you are doing your own members a disservice because they will also suffer from this process.
If that was a situation, yes, but we do not care what the political colours of the government are.
Our laser focus is on the workplace.
That's what we've been doing.
We've been involved in over 450 disputes over the last year, winning the majority of those and winning 200 million pounds in extra earnings into the pockets of our members.
We do not care whether we deal with Labour or Tories.
We've had disputes against Labour capital.
Here's a problem you have in particular.
You represent ambulance workers, right?
You.
And if it was teachers or people in those kind of professions, if they have a day off work, it's not going to kill people, right?
It might put back their education by a day, and that's unfortunate, but it's not going to kill people.
If your people go out on strike, there is a likelihood, I would say, that some people are going to die because they couldn't get an ambulance to them in time.
And again, I started with this, I'm going to finish with it.
How do you live with that morally?
Because you and your members are in a particular position of service to the public, which actually means life or death.
We can stop the strike if the government is willing to negotiate.
What if they don't?
It doesn't have to happen.
What if they're not willing to be?
Well, then the responsibility is with the government, isn't it?
The government is...
Yes, absolutely.
Well, not really.
No, you're the ones going on strike.
Because, Piers, this happens one day of strike action, and yet the rest of the year, this happens anyway.
The police can't strike, can they?
People are dying now.
Police can't strike.
Well, there are rules stopping it.
What's the difference between them and ambulance workers?
I'll tell you what, the number of times I've spoken to police officers on demonstrations who say they wish they could strike.
Right, but they don't.
They're not allowed to.
I don't think ambulance workers should be allowed to strike.
Ambulance workers, on average, pay starting salaries.
We are talking about 27,000.
You said a number of ambulance workers are on...
Let me ask you another question.
You said a number of ambulance workers are now going to food banks.
Yes.
How many?
I can't give you the number.
Well, how do you know?
Because we speak to people.
So how many?
I've spoken to 10, 20, 30 ambulance workers up there.
Well, how many is there though?
I'm not going to be able to tell you.
Well, you say these things.
How many people are saying that they're not going to be able to do food banks?
I frankly find it pretty unbelievable that an ambulance worker is going to a food bank.
Unless you can tell me specifically who they are and how many there are.
I'm not going to give you names.
Do they exist?
Have you made that up?
No.
That's insulting.
What's insulting is Piers.
Now that's the best thing.
What's insulting is saying if you can't back it up.
Yes, we can back it up because this is one of the majority.
But you said you have no idea how many it is.
This is what our members are telling you.
I cannot tell you across the country how many paramedics and ambulance workers have been to a food bank.
I don't think anybody can give you a bunch of people.
You believe it could be 10, 20, 30 more?
The people that I've spoken to, because we speak to people.
How many have you spoken to?
Our members.
How many have you spoken to?
I've spoken to 10, 20, possibly more.
Royal Family Racism Debate 00:11:09
Because I don't sit down and keep a tab.
The reality is it's insulting to believe that that doesn't happen.
No, what's insulting is you are saying that it's not.
What's insulting is you saying something that dramatic without supporting it with any evidence.
You can't even remember what evidence of it.
You can't even remember if you were told by 10 or 20 or 30.
What does it make?
It makes a lot of difference.
What difference does it make?
It's a lot of difference.
If you're going to use as a propaganda stick, it's not a propaganda stick.
If you're going to get reality.
Well, if it's reality.
It's reality.
Show us food.
We live in the sixth richest people.
Some people in the world.
We have paramedics going to food banks.
So you say.
Nurses.
So you say.
And Piers.
I want to know who they are.
Why don't you go away and do your research and find out how many hospitals have actually set up their own food banks for their own staff?
How much do you earn?
That's the reality.
How much do you earn?
That's irrelevant.
How much do you earn?
Piers, that's irrelevant.
You're not going to tell me.
It's not as much as you earn.
No, but how much do you earn?
It makes no difference to the debate.
You're big on pay right now.
How much do you earn?
It makes no difference to the person that we are having here.
Not going to tell me.
It's a matter of public record, isn't it?
Yes, but it's irrelevant.
It's irrelevant to the debate we're having.
My earnings have no impact on the body.
As a union leader, right?
At the moment.
Yeah, absolutely.
Ryan.
Absolutely.
Because that's not the debate.
And I know where you're trying to take this.
Where am I trying to take it?
The issue is...
Where am I trying to take it?
We have workers in the sixth richest country in the world relying on food banks.
That's a fact.
So you can't tell me.
You can't tell me whether you have any moral problem if people die when they're earning.
Of course I have a moral problem with people.
All right, so you've now answered that question by anybody.
Now you finally have admitted you would have a moral problem with it.
Secondly, you won't tell me what you earn.
Thirdly, you say a lot of paramedics and nurses are going to food banks, but you, and this is people you've spoken to.
Absolutely.
You're not prepared to tell me who they are or how many there are.
No.
Do you really think that everybody who goes to a food bank wants Piers Morgan to know, wants your viewers to know?
I don't think they're going food banks.
I find it very implausible when you say things like, it's 10, 20, 30, I'm not sure.
What I'm getting at is that.
I probably remember every one of my members who told me they were going to food banks.
We've got over a million pounds.
And I might better help them myself if I was earning the kind of money you earn.
Only you won't tell us how much you earn.
But you don't know how much money.
Why don't you say it?
Because it's irrelevant to the debate.
It's a matter of public record, right?
The reality is that.
You're not even prepared to tell me a public record.
Salary is irrelevant.
What is relevant is that we perform for our members.
Yeah.
As opposed to the government, as opposed to anybody else, we have over 200 million round members by taking strike action because strike action works.
And that's why our ambulance workers are taking action.
Well, Merry Christmas.
Good to see you.
Coming up, Prince Harry says his wife inspires him every day and they want to be advocates of healing.
Yes, you heard that, Black.
Will the shameless substances ever stop?
I doubt it.
That's where the money is, right?
That debate next.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan.
I said, just don't become.
He's out of the jungle and says he'll stand down at the next election.
Shouldn't he put us all out of our misery and stand down right now?
We'll debate Matt Hancock in the programme later.
But first, the Duke and Duchess of Netflix were awarded for their heroism in fighting royal racism last night.
The climate campaigners flew into New York by private jet for the Robert F. Kennedy Association's Ripple of Hope Awards, which were presented to them in their case by Alec Baldwin, who is possibly about to face criminal charges for accidentally shooting a woman dead on the set of his movie.
So it was a really charming evening for everyone concerned.
The Sussances were on stage gushing about healing because that's really what they're all about, isn't it?
Healing.
It's the one word you would really associate with Megan and Harry as they trash their family on an almost weekly basis.
Their dreaded Netflix series comes out tomorrow and speaking for many of us, a sky reporter asked this.
Honey, are you putting money before family?
Are you putting money before family?
One of the questions.
Honey, are you putting money before family?
Are you putting money before family?
One of the questions.
Literally the first time that either of them have been challenged on any of their allegations.
Oprah never challenged them.
They won't be challenged in this Netflix series.
None of their cozy chats or podcasts.
Does anyone ever ask them questions like that?
And that is the burning question.
Are they now putting money before their family?
Are they trashing the institution which gave them the titles which they now ruthlessly exploit for gazillions of dollars?
Well, joining me now to discuss this.
Author and playwright Bonnie Greer, associate editor of the Daily Mirror, Kevin Maguire, and talk to the contributor Esther Kraker.
Welcome to all of you.
Bonnie, welcome back.
Thank you.
Okay, look, this series is coming out tomorrow.
We get the first three episodes tomorrow morning in this global event, as they call it.
They've just been given an award for their heroism in standing up to royal racism without ever producing, to my knowledge, any facts to support these allegations.
Where are we with these two?
Where does it end?
When does it stop?
These are the same things they said to Oprah Winfrey last year.
They're continuing to attack the monarchy, the royal family, of a new king, not even coronated yet.
The queen only died three months ago.
They have a new prince of Wales.
All of them waiting to see what the latest onslaught is.
Who wins here, apart from their bank balance?
Asking me.
Yes.
Well, you know, and you know probably better than a lot of people about the celebrity space in the United States.
That's where they are.
Megan and Harry are big celebrities in the United States.
You also know as someone who's lived in the United States, who lives in the United States, that the Americans know nothing about the royal family.
They know absolutely nothing.
So what Megan and Harry are doing is giving them their definition of what the royal family is.
I think we should just walk away from Megan and Harry.
Can we?
Well, we can.
Deliberately launching anything.
One way that we can, and I'm not putting them down, is that we need to have used this as an occasion for ourselves in this country to have a conversation about this.
I think it's important.
Not about them.
Hang on, women.
Not about them, but about what they're talking about.
I think that's important.
What are they talking about?
They're talking about structural racism.
That's what Carrie Kennedy...
Hang on.
That's what Kerry Kennedy is.
By who?
Within the country.
Within the Russian country.
Within yourself.
Yes.
Within the royal family.
So it's interesting because Gail King, their friend, Oprah's best friend, was there last night and Jan Moore of the Daily Mail asked her, are the royal family racist?
And Gail King said no, and they don't think they are either, talking about the Sussexes.
So I'm not quite sure what you mean.
They're getting an award for combating racism.
All right, Louis.
And yet their best buddy says they don't think the royals are racist.
So what is this all about?
What this is about is the standing of the United Kingdom in the world.
My point is that they're not going to be able to do that.
Exactly.
So we need to rescue it, and it's important to do that.
The royals aren't going to find.
They're not going to go on this.
What we're doing right now is we need to talk about there are problems here, like there are everywhere.
And you know, the audacity of anybody in the United States to talk about racism anywhere else is actually hilarious.
But we need to take the occasion to talk about it.
We can do it.
We can do it here because there are issues.
What are we talking about?
Exactly.
No, what we're talking about, the thing that happened to that in Gozi Fulan, that was outrageous.
We need to look and we need to do it to talk about...
Bonnie, in that case, an 83-year-old woman made some unfortunate remarks to a woman who was at the palace.
She was named very quickly.
She was held accountable and she was out within 24 hours.
The difference with Megan and Harry is they don't give any names.
They give no facts.
They give no evidence.
They simply say somebody said this.
That the reputation of this nation is being held up exactly.
We need to take charge of this conversation.
Well, okay.
And these help.
Esther.
They actually won an award for fighting structural racism.
They did.
Because that's how I like my racism structured and structured and racist.
Anyway, but I think the point is that they literally have done nothing for people of colour, for instance.
So I don't understand this idea that they're winning an award to combat race.
What have they done to fight racism?
They're in America, Esther.
It's not real.
So it's a man to be racist.
No, what I'm trying to say.
That's quite subtle.
What you're saying is it's fake.
No, no, no, no.
What I'm saying is...
It's not real, it's not.
No, no, listen, the persona that's been created this country, I'm not interested in Harry again.
I'm talking about the United Kingdom.
We don't look good.
All right.
And that's the problem.
They don't look good because these two are crashing.
No, it's not because we need to confront.
I want to help you, Esther.
Finish your thought process on this.
I just think that they embody everything that's toxic about this country and our conversation around race.
I don't want to live in a country where I can accuse someone of being racist towards me and they can't defend themselves, which is exactly what Megan and Harry are doing.
And they're doing it knowing that the royal family won't fight back.
So I think the best thing to do would be to ignore them because I don't feel comfortable leveling allegations of racism at someone who can't defend themselves.
I'm going to worry about the role of that.
You can't ignore them when they've got a Netflix series and there's a bootcamp.
Exactly, exactly.
But what has to happen, and look, there are no Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King, but if she says she suffered racism, he says she suffered racism.
There is racism in Britain.
There may be some in the royal family.
They've got to name names.
Put up or shut up.
And the royal family have to come out and answer.
I'm sorry.
We're beyond now.
Never complain.
Never explain.
William came out after the Oprah interview and said, and very unusually, off the cup, said to a reporter, this is very much not a racist family.
Couldn't have been more emphatic.
No evidence has been produced to say they are a racist family.
You've got one lady in waiting to the Queen in her 80s saying unfortunate things to a woman who's at the palace.
I don't think she should have said them.
The moment that woman said she was born in Britain and British, end of conversation.
She was held account within 24 hours.
She was gone.
The Duke of Edinburgh used to make regular racist statements.
He always passed them off as jokes.
Now...
See, that isn't the class.
My worry is that.
My worry is this.
You are a Republican.
You don't even believe in the institution of monarchy.
I'm a monarchist.
I love the monarchy.
They bring us so much to what our country stands for around the world.
I'm really genuinely worried now that these two are never going to stop until they've caused irreparable damage.
Maybe not.
And with a new king, vulnerable, obviously never going to be as popular as the family.
But as a monarchist, who is the first person?
As a monarchist as a monarchist, you know, this family's gone through more than Meghan and Harry and the royal family, period.
They've actually never used to get their heads in the future.
They've never had a sustained detachment.
They're always a good person.
Not inside.
They've never had a sustained detachment.
No, they never have, but this is the age that we're in.
Okay.
His great-great-uncle was consorted with the Nazis.
This is the king's son.
His great-great-uncle.
Bonnie, this is the king's son standing on stage receiving an award for standing up to racism in his own family.
Herschel Walker Presidential Bid 00:11:10
That's him.
I'm talking about us.
What we need is that.
What could we do?
We can't do that.
I'll do and sit back.
What we can do is have the conversations that we're having within this country and be seen to have those.
Bonnie, do me a favour.
This thing airs tomorrow, the first few episodes.
Come back on tomorrow once we've seen it.
I'm going to be.
But it is.
It's so boring.
France.
Do you have to go to France?
Really?
Yeah, it's a reference.
It's a reformation.
What is different here is it's from inside.
It's sustained inside.
Edward VIII, the Duke of Windsor, was a fascist sympathiser and admirer of Hitler, but he shut up after he had to be.
Oh, wait a minute.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Okay, I'm doing is not.
Look, Andrew is the real scout.
Wait a minute.
But from the inside, they're not.
You can't compare 1938 to now.
Bonnie.
No, I'm not.
I'm going to leave it up there, Cliffanger, because we're going to have a lot more of this tomorrow night.
You're leaving us, Bonnie.
Thank you very much.
You to have staying to talk about other stuff.
Tomorrow night, I'm going to devote the whole program to a dissection of this Netflix series.
Three episodes will come out.
We're going to have a virtual audience.
If you want to join in, please email the show at dmpm at talk.tv.
And we're going to debate this.
If you've got a view, either way, I want to hear from you.
It's not going to be a one-way traffic.
Everyone knows my opinion.
If you've got a different one, explain to me why I'm wrong.
After the break, guilty of tax fraud.
Donald Trump's company has been convicted by New York jury.
And at the same time, one of his big Senate hopes has also crashed and burned.
Herschel Walker, giving the Democrats a big win and, of course, now an increased majority in the Senate.
So is it all over the Trump?
Has he become an election loser?
Well, his former top aide of the White House, Kellyanne Conway, will join me live.
I suspect she will say it's not all over.
But that face is giving nothing away.
Well, coming up on uncensored ledgers tonight is out of I'm a celebrity.
Yeah, sooner he goes the better.
We'll debate that in a moment.
But first, it's been another disastrous 24 hours for Donald Trump, suffering several major blows in a single day.
First, the Trump organization was convicted for a 15-year tax fraud scheme.
And the committee investigating the January 6th Capital Riots announced his planning criminal referrals.
And his hand-picked Republican candidate for the Senate, Herschel Walker, crashed out in Georgia, handing Democrats an outright majority now.
And now it's been reported that more classified documents will be found at the Florida Storage something unit rented by the former president.
Okay, that didn't read right, but it was a unit.
So is it all over for Donald Trump or foolish to write him off again?
Well, joining me now is Trump's former aide at the White House, Kelly Ann Conway.
Kellyanne, first of all, great to talk to you again.
I haven't talked to you in years.
Obviously followed you with great interest as you ran around the White House.
Often, in my opinion, defending the indefensible.
Are you now on my show tonight to do the same?
I don't even know what that means.
I was there to communicate information to the public that they otherwise wouldn't have since Donald Trump cut out the middleman and the middleman didn't like it.
But I was happy to be part of the policy team at the White House.
I said no to Press Secretary 45 minutes after he was elected and many, many times after that.
But I think it was important to have a number of messengers to push back against a lot of disinformation and hate and also just to make sure that people who otherwise don't have access to presidential communications coming out of the White House have that.
You know, Piers, I think many Americans miss, many people around the world probably miss getting instant free of charge access to a presidential communication, whether it's one of those tweets or the president underwing at Air Force One or taking media into the Oval Office or going to the press briefing room.
I didn't like every tweet.
I told President Trump that he needs to tweet like we need to eat.
It's just about better choices.
Sometimes you have a salad, sometimes you have a dessert.
It balances out.
But I don't know about counting Trump out.
I think the arc of his life, of his career, has been defying the odds and pushing back against the critics and the naysayers.
I mean, I'm saying to discount anybody.
Right, here's the difference to me between previous times when I might have agreed with you.
He is a warrior and he will fight to the end, I'm sure.
And he obviously pulled off one of the greatest shocks in political history anywhere in the world in 2016.
But then, you know, he was a massive vote winner out of nowhere.
And it seems to me he's become increasingly a big problem for the Republicans because a lot of his picks are simply not winning.
And Herschel Walker last night lost in Georgia, which means the Senate majority increases for the Democrats, gives them more power.
They very nearly held the House, which would have been unbelievable given the position that most people thought the Democrats were in.
And a lot of Republicans are now blaming Trump.
And there's all the baggage around him with all these things going on in the background, from tax to this to that, to documents at Mar-a-Lago and so on.
And there's a belief, as you know, from a number of Republicans, well, why are we bothering to go through all this when we've got this other guy, DeSantis, down in Florida, who had a stunning win in the midterm elections?
He's about half Trump's age.
He's dynamic.
He's smart.
He's got an amazing track record, Yale, Harvard, legal counsel, the SEAL team, leaders in Fallujah, and so on.
Why persist in what is looking like now somebody who's a vote loser?
You've asked a lot of that lot there that I'm not sure I can answer in the limited time your producers have provided me, but let me try.
First, Piers, you're right about 2016, but it didn't come out of nowhere.
Respectfully, I was the campaign manager in 2016.
It is the last time I've been on the president's political team.
And I'm very critical of his 2020 campaign.
His son-in-law, Brad Parskell, the whole group within $1.4 billion.
And you're running against Joe Biden and you can't get the job done.
We would have no January 6th.
We would have no election fraud claims, none of it, if they had just run outright and overwhelmingly, and they should have that year.
So that aside, remember, I'm the one Trump official with no subpoenas, scandals, indictments, and investigations, and I plan to keep it that way.
I voluntarily testified to the January 6th Committee last week, and I did not take the fifth for that testimony or any question within the testimony.
So that's over there.
On the question of Herschel Walker, it is true that President Trump endorsed him and wanted him to run, but Herschel Walker has pushed back that it was President Trump's idea.
He said, I wanted to run.
Mitch McConnell endorsed Herschel Walker 13 months ago.
The whole Republican Party was behind this guy.
Governor Brian Kemp turned over all of his micro-targeting, data, mining stuff for him.
Well, Herschel Walker did, Kellyanne.
What he did do, Herschel Walker bought into this big lie that Trump had the 2020 election stolen.
When I sat down with Trump in Mar-a-Lago in April, I said to him, leave all that behind you.
It's just going to become this massive stick to vote against you.
And that's exactly what's happened.
He just won't let it go.
Nobody cares about 2020.
Nobody believes he had it stolen from anyway.
And nobody cares.
I write about this in my memoir.
Here's the deal, Piers.
It came out six, seven months ago, and I very methodically lay out the fact that it broke my heart Donald Trump didn't get re-elected.
I wanted him to win.
I don't want Joe Biden and Kamala Harris running this country.
Good God.
However, elections are about the future, not the past.
And I told him in 2020, you're running out of time to show this evidence.
I had long left the White House, but we were in touch.
And I said, if you have this evidence, if your lawyers have it, you have to produce it.
You're running out of time.
But you're right in terms of people want a presidential candidate to reflect their grievances, not his or her own.
And they want to hear about the future and the vision.
I think Donald Trump's best bet in running for the presidency is very straightforward.
If you strip away everything else, and that's a big if, Piers, and you just say, this was your life under Joe Biden's America, this is your life under Donald Trump's America, the gas prices, the supply chain, Putin in Ukraine, a nuclear capable Iran salivating at Israel, border security, physical security, financial security, all the rest.
That's his best bet.
But when other things get layered and stacked on top of that, it becomes a distraction.
Now, I just want to say one thing about Herschel Walker.
I think this is a bigger issue.
In the Republican Party, we need to start going after ballots and not just votes and voters.
We have to bank these ballots early, Piers.
I don't like the new way that we vote in this country.
Well, you know what, Kellyanne, look, I've got to...
We're running out of time.
What I'm going to say about that is you're being outflanked and outmaneuvered by the Democrats.
And I find that staggering.
The Republicans are basically so electorally incompetent.
But that's another issue.
Kellyanne, it's great to have you on the program.
Thank you.
That's the biggest issue, though.
We're not going to win if we're going to go to the bottom.
I'm sure it is.
There's a lot of fishing going on in American politics.
There's a lot of fishing going on here.
It's great to have you on, and I would love to get you back when I suspect Trump pulls out and DeSantis becomes a nominee.
Please come back then.
Thank you, Piers.
Good to see you.
That's up to the voters.
Thank you.
Nice to talk to you.
All the best, Kellyanne.
Bonnie, you want to the status to react to that?
I mean, I've always actually liked Kellyanne, and she's right.
She has given evidence to John Shakespeare.
She's got an interesting marriage, too.
She certainly has, because her husband says it could be a good idea.
Absolutely.
Which I think that's fine.
Just quick reaction to that.
Well, there was an old Hollywood term called box office poison.
And that's what Donald Trump is, the Republican Party.
Joe Biden will win if Donald Trump runs again.
That's how he ran the last title.
Look at this clip of Biden yesterday.
This is what they're up against, right?
This is the President of the United States.
They'll construct a second fab here in Phoenix to build chips, three nano chips.
The three nano chip.
Chips, three nano.
And you know what I'm saying.
No, no, no, no, I don't know.
The Republicans are getting run around by that guy.
It's unbelievable.
I love Joe, he's real.
Why?
He's a real guy.
And listen, hang on.
He's real, okay.
He's not there cleaning himself up or anything else.
He's messing up.
Well, you know what?
Whether he's real or not, the truth about Biden is that he is performing a hell of a lot better than people thought he'd be.
Thank you.
And the midterms were a shatteringly bad midterm.
This is unprecedented.
It's because of Trump.
Yes.
I think Trump is hanging around like a bad smell.
Bad club.
Bonnie, thank you for staying.
Thank you.
We managed to keep you for a little longer than we thought before you jet off to France.
Probably come to the other team talking about Matt Hancock.
Talking of people who are really hanging around like a bad smell.
He's now announced very pompously, I'm not going to stand at the next election.
Why is he standing for a minute longer as an MP?
Stand down, man.
He is what I term as unflushable.
He will not go away.
And he needs to vanish because the thing is, I think Rishi Sunak needs to take a leaf out of Kirstalma's book.
He is making the Conservative Party look less respectable than the Labour Party, which is a very bad look considering you want to win re-election in 2024.
But I think the bigger issue here is the fact that he was so arrogant to think that he could have stood a chance again at the next election.
I mean, Rishi Sunak has been very clear that he was very disappointed.
Why hasn't he gone now?
Exactly.
It's the £84,000 a year question.
He keeps his salary at a base.
You get the commons, he's got researchers, he's got a certain protection and a platform.
And also, the party won't want to have a violation.
Space Tourism Counter Narrative 00:07:30
Oh, yeah, exactly.
Because right now they lose every by election they ever have.
Yeah, that's definitely the case.
Rishi Sunak will not want him to go early.
But he's been very local.
But he's jumped before he was pushed.
He was finished.
They turned against him in the constituency.
I can't find a Conservative MP who has a good word to say for him.
But we were down at that pub, his local pub, and the furious at everything that he's been doing.
The idea that he could be gallivanting around, munching kangaroo testicles in Australia, going on this celebrity SAS program, writing a diary, which isn't even really a diary by the look of it.
It's just revisiting it.
He is a remnant of Boris Johnson's donkey government.
But he's got a problem, though.
He's going to go before the COVID inquiry.
That diary will be used as evidence.
And he will be questioned under oath.
He will be in the rest of the world.
I think he's going to go.
Very unpleasant things happen to him in that inquiry.
He deserves to be.
I think he's trying to sanitize his involvement, particularly Ranch.
Thank you both very much indeed.
Really appreciate it.
Bonnie, thank you for coming in.
We appreciate it.
Well, coming next to us, 50 years ago today, since man last took off for the moon in a rocket, why is it taking so long to go back?
Are we ever going to go back?
Space superstar, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Next.
As I step off at the surface of Taurus Litro, we'd like to dedicate the first step of Apollo 17 to all those who made it possible.
Well, 50 years ago today, astronauts were launched to the moon for the last time in NASA's Apollo 17 mission.
But why haven't we gone back?
Well, joining me is a man who knows everything about the universe, the astrophysicist, author of the new book Starry Messenger, Cosmic Perspectives on Civilization.
The great Neil deGrasse Tyson rejoins me.
Neil, and what a wonderful waistcoat, if I may start with that.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
I don't want to show off or anything, but.
Now, look, why have we not gone across the moon?
Across the planet, we call it a vest.
Across the parliament, we call it a vest.
Why have we not gone back to the moon in 50 years?
I have my own reasons for thinking so.
I'm happy to share them with you.
When we first went to the moon, we have to remind ourselves why.
All right.
There's been a lot of cleansing of the memory of the motivator, of what motivated us to do it in the first place.
It was in response.
It was reactive to the Soviet Union.
They beat us in practically every space metric that mattered over that time.
They had the first satellite, the first mammal, which was Laika the dog, the first human.
They had the first woman, the first dark-skinned person.
It was a black Cuban.
Remember, Cuba was, of course, part of the Soviet Empire, or friends with them.
And so they had so many firsts that we didn't, that we said, all right, how are we going to, what are we going to do?
Let's go to the moon.
And so by the time we got to the moon and realized Russia actually isn't headed there, it took some of the steam out of sort of the militaristic motivations that got us there in the first place.
Allow me to remind you that this Apollo 17 was the first mission to the moon to have a scientist on it.
And by the way, it was the last mission to the moon.
So we tell ourselves we're explorers, discoverers, and it was really about flexing muscle on a geopolitical level.
Well, now there's a kind of counter narrative to that exploring aspect.
Because I remember when I was a kid watching these rockets go off from Cape Canaveral and feeling so enthralled.
And the world used to watch these things.
And now it seems like we've gone backwards, a bit like air travel.
Air travel on Concord used to be London and New York in two hours, 58 minutes.
Now it takes twice as long.
I don't understand how we gone backwards in these things.
Prince William, though.
Prince William criticized space tourism and travel.
He said this.
The idea that this space race is on at the moment, we've seen everyone trying to get space tourism going.
It's the idea that we need some of the world's greatest brains and minds fixed on trying to repair this planet, not trying to find the next place to go and live.
What do you make of that, Neil?
The argument that we've got climate change, we've got real pressing problems here, therefore we should suspend all exploration off the planet until we save this one.
Yeah, I don't like badmouthing royals, but if you allow me a moment to do so, let's go back 30,000 years.
Let's go back 30,000 years.
We're all living in a cave, and you have the cave elders, the wise elders in the back, and then you have some young whippersnapper youngins who they peer out the cave door.
This cave door has hinges, apparently, my example, but they move the rock and they look out and they see mountains and valleys and streams and trees with fruit on them.
And they go to the cave elders and say, we'd like to go explore.
And the cave elders say, no, we have cave problems that we have to solve first in the cave before you exit the cave and see what else is out there.
That's what people sound like to me when they say, we have problems on Earth, let's solve them first before we go outside of the Earth.
Without recognizing that, by the way, your smartphone can find grandma's house in traffic because of a system of satellites launched into space.
You have full active video tracking of hurricanes and storms and tsunamis, okay, from images taken from space.
So to say space is something other than what you should care about, just move back to the cave, because that's kind of where you believe.
How important is somebody like Elon Musk with SpaceX, particularly with the satellites, of course, which have been used, for example, in Ukraine to help them in this war against Russia?
What do you think of Musk and what he's doing in this area?
Yeah, so Musk, I think one of the biggest contributions he's making is he's trying to drive down the cost of access to space.
That's sort of A slightly buried objective here.
Buried, not that anyone's purposefully burying it.
They're just not noticing that this is an important driver.
Because if you can take down the cost, then other kinds of activities can then unfold in space, such as space tourism.
By the way, let's think about it.
I don't know the future.
I don't have a crystal ball, but I can imagine a future where space tourism is routine.
It becomes commoditized, and everybody, you save up a few vacation paychecks, and that'll get you into space.
You know, people will line up and want to do that.
And there's nothing like seeing Earth from space.
It is not the color-coded countries that were drawn on your schoolroom globe.
You see Earth as nature had intended you to see, with oceans and lands and clouds.
That can change you just by being a tourist in space.
So, no, I don't, I'm not with the people who are saying, don't do that.
Let's stick to Earth.
Limb Regeneration Predictions 00:02:42
Yeah, I completely expect this.
I completely agree.
And if you use that kind of logic, you never do anything because there's always something more important that stops you doing something fun.
You made some predictions on American television very recently about what would happen by 2050.
Two of them I thought were quite likely.
Self-driving electric vehicles, yep, I think we're going to get that.
Pretty well are.
A visiting alien to Earth.
Yep, I think that's highly likely by 2050.
But the second one, or the third one on this list, humans will have the ability to regenerate their limbs.
That was a real little eye popper for me.
Are we going to really be able to?
Okay, well, so let me put that in context.
That appears in the book's chapter called Exploration and Discovery.
And I go through 150 years of the exponential growth of discovery and the role that science and technology plays in shaping civilizations.
And practically everybody predicting at the beginning of each 30-year period got it wrong.
Yeah, that you can make linear predictions and maybe some of that work, but what typically happens is a discovery comes in from the side, from above, from below.
Why do you think limbs?
Why limbs?
Limbs.
Okay, I'll tell you why.
So again, I'm not, I'm not, I, so I gave my predictions so that in 2050, people could laugh at how wrong they were.
That's why I gave the predictions.
So I said, let me just try it.
So why limbs?
Because you and I are approximately the same age.
We learned biology in an era where we said the tree of life, humans are at the top.
And we are the most, the pinnacle of evolution.
I remember hearing biologists say that and teachers teach that.
Excuse me.
It was white men were at the top of the evolution.
Depending on which textbook you use.
And I think to myself, suppose, this is what a cosmic perspective does to you.
Suppose some other animal made that same chart.
If newts made that chart, they would say we're at the top because we can regenerate limbs.
And they would pity humans on the evolutionary scale because we can't.
All right, Neil, here we would say, we're at the top.
I get it.
So we've got 20 seconds.
20 seconds.
What I'm saying is that the rest.
I'm just saying, because regenerating limbs exists in the genome of other animals.
And we're all related genetically.
Okay?
All animals on Earth have common DNA.
So, Grant, take a snip of that, nip, tuck it in us, bada bing.
Line up the veterans first.
I'm going to get you back on in 2050 to see if you're right about this.
But Neil, we run out of time.
I can talk to you all night.
Thank you.
You're always fantastic.
I appreciate you coming on.
That's it from me.
Keep it uncensored.
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