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Nov. 21, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
47:05
20221121_piers-morgan-uncensored-shilton-lawrenson-pieterse
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Real Courage vs Virtue Signaling 00:04:02
Tonight now, Piers Morgan Uncensored, the World Cup and guitar begins with a thumping England victory and more predictable rows about politics.
Can we please, for the love of God, just focus on the football?
My all-star starting lineup features Peter Shilton, Mark Lawrenceon and Kevin Peterson.
Plus, I speak what I want and I'm bulletproof.
Cristiano Ronaldo defiantly responds to the fallout from our interview.
Was he right to speak out?
We'll debate that with the capacity crowd at tonight's Morgan Arena.
No virtue signalling allowed.
From London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Well, good evening from London and welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
The World Cup is finally underway, the biggest event in world sport, the greatest show on earth.
And if you look very closely, really, very, very closely, you might even see a bit of football.
Politics has predictably overshadowed sport in the first 24 hours of the tournament.
The England players today had the best possible response to all the virtue signalling.
They got on with the game and got on with it very well.
Shaw.
And it's in from Dillingham.
He gets it down to Saka.
Looking for Stole!
And Saka keeps on going himself.
Oh, why wouldn't he?
First touch, there's the second, there's the next.
Wilson in on goal, playing in Grealish.
England have six in it.
Well, all the build-up to that thumping win against Iran was dominated by the FA's humiliating U-turn on plans for Captain Harry Kane to wear a rainbow armband.
The planned protest against Qatar's non-existent gay rights quickly buckled under threats of yellow cards and possible suspensions.
Wales also backed down too.
The England players did take the knee, but there was no gesture from England in support of the thousands of Iranians risking their lives to demand women's rights at home.
And that's my problem with all this virtue signalling.
Once you start, where do you stop?
And if you're going to do it, then do it.
The BBC has made their own decisions about this.
We've left Alex Scott, a pundit, to wear the rainbow ironband on air today.
Good for her.
But last night, after the BBC totally snubbed the opening ceremony, Gary Lennica said this.
From accusations of corruption in the bidding process to the treatment of migrant workers who built the stadiums where many lost their lives.
Homosexuality is illegal here.
Women's rights and freedom of expression are in the spotlight.
But where's the consistency?
Britain's broadcasters had no problem showing the massive opening ceremony at the Russia World Cup, for example, attended by murderous Putin himself.
Nor did the BBC feel the need to censor the opening ceremony at the Beijing Winter Olympics just nine months ago, even as China is accused of a genocide against the Uyghur Muslims.
For an example of real courage and a protest that might actually make a difference, take a look at the Iran players this afternoon refusing to sing their national anthem.
Well, that to me is what real courage looks like.
They did that quite deliberately to show support for the women of Iran back home who are being oppressed and persecuted and killed.
No virtue signalling, no empty gestures, no armbands, just silence and booze from their supporters in support of that silence.
That's what I call meaningful protest.
Not capitulating on your supposed moral stance because somebody threatens to wave a yellow card at you.
Meaningful Protest Through Silence 00:10:04
I generally think fans are pretty fed up with all the politics now at this World Cup.
There's no doubt that FIFA's decision to take it to Qatar was scandalous as it was to give it to Russia at the same time.
But that decision was made 12 years ago.
Today's massive England win, I hope, will mark a turning point, not just for the England team's stuttering form, but also for the tournament itself.
This is the World Cup.
Can we please enjoy the football?
Well, joining me now is former England goalkeeper who played at three World Cups, Peter Shilton.
He's also championed the World Cup's gamble awares campaign.
Alongside him is former Liverpool and Ireland International Mark Lawrenson and former football manager Harry Rednapper.
A veritable trilogy of football legends before me.
Before I get into this debate, I want to play a clip.
This is from Roy Keane today on ITV about the Armban row, in which he made his normal forthright views.
The players could have done it for the first game and took the punishment, whatever that might be, Kane.
Obviously, you're risking saying if he's going to get a yellow card, if that was going to be the punishment.
But that would have been a great statement.
Do it for the first game.
If you get your yellow card, what a message that would have been from Kane or Bale.
Take your medicine, and then the next game you move on.
You don't wear it because obviously again, you'd want to be getting suspended.
But I think it was a big mistake, I think.
Both players, particularly obviously, we're talking about Wales and England here, should have stopped to their guns and done it.
Whatever pressure from outside and from their own associations, have the belief.
If that's what you believe, then go with it.
I've got to say, I completely agree with him.
I mean, let's start with you, Mark.
I mean, they've got themselves into a hell of a mess here, haven't they, the FA?
If you're going to virtue signal, for want of a better phrase, if you're going to show your virtue for something on a global stage, just do it.
Then just do it.
Don't say you're going to do it as a stand and that's why you're not boycotting it and then bottle it.
Well, it's ended up being a come down.
But the other thing as well is, and you mentioned this about the Iranian players, look, they could well go home and end up in prison or dead.
Or are absolutely totally 100% dead.
I mean, that is a statement in itself.
So it's just a strange one.
I mean, it's just a small badge.
I say it means a lot, but a small badge on your arm, one love.
Wear it.
So you get a yellow card.
You know what, FIFA like?
FIFA would then change their minds, wouldn't they?
FIFA would be, I've got to say, FIFA would be absolutely prophetic in this tournament.
Well, Infantino's speech the day.
I mean, it's just rambling nonsense and insulting and all the rest of it.
Unlike this program.
Thank you.
Certainly not tonight.
Peter, what do you make of this?
Did you ever do any protests when you were a World Cup player for England?
No, not at all.
Personally, I think all the protests should be done before the tournament.
You know, I think it's the tournament, the World Cup is the greatest football show that we have.
And I think, you know, it's getting sidestepped a little bit with protests of this and protests of that.
I just think, look, let's do the protesting beforehand.
When we get on the football pitch, let's concentrate on football.
You know, I don't think players should be asked to, you know, to do the things we're asking them to do.
The problem is, I think some of the players want to do it.
They've all got quite moral and political in the last few years.
We don't want to see an upside to leading issues.
We don't want football to become political.
I think football's football.
Politics are politics.
The problem was that Qatar was given the World Cup in the first place because FIFA should have known that there was going to be a lot of protesting against certain things.
Have you said that?
Look, look, on that point, I mean, Mark, I feel quite strongly about this.
There's never been a World Cup in the Middle East, which is a fantastic football-loving continent, isn't it?
I mean, we've known so many great countries there love their football.
They've never had a World Cup.
They're perfectly entitled to have one.
They've got issues with some of their laws and cultures, which we find objectionable.
Fine.
But what happens at the next World Cup, which is going to be in America and Mexico and Canada, right?
You don't think Mexico has issues we should be concerned about?
America has draconian laws about abortion, for example.
It has laws about gun rights, which we find objectionable over here in the UK.
Are we going to have the same pontificating there, the same protests?
Are we going to have monologues from presenters?
No, I don't think it'll be as bad.
No, but why shouldn't it be?
Well, I mean, the thing is with this, is that for some reason, it's like we're saying that the Qataris are just, you know, are they lower than us?
Because the Arab states, et cetera, which obviously no, but I think the problem is entwined insofar as we think about the organisation, you know, such a small country, all those kind of things.
The other thing as well, PS, as we all know, that, you know, FIFA's corrupt anyway.
Well, that's the problem.
Has been for years and years and years.
And until you sort them out, it's a waste of time.
What about the BBC here being, it seems to me, morally selective?
They're happy to play an upshot ceremony at the Russia Short Cup.
You know, they do it at China, but they don't do it here.
Strange.
Strange decision.
Now, I would imagine, and I wouldn't know, but I would imagine that would have come from the very, very top of the BBC.
But it's a very deliberate decision.
If you are living in the Middle East, if you're an Arab football fan and you're watching the discrepancy between the way you're being treated on these things compared to Russia and China, you're not going to be very happy about it.
We wouldn't be.
You'd be raving mad.
Right.
I mean, we shouldn't be going down this road, really.
I mean, we should be talking about England's great win.
Well, they were great, weren't they?
And not Harry Kane wearing an armband.
I mean, like I said, you know, protesting is fine.
You know, do it before the tournament, get it out of the way.
But once you get on that pitch, you know, it's level playing field.
Well, let me talk to Harry Rednap.
Harry, what do you make of all this?
They've got themselves into a right dog's dinner, it seems to me.
Absolutely, Piers.
And like the lads are saying, like Peter just said there, I think we're all getting, it's non-stop.
You know, the World Cup really is all we hear about.
It's not the football.
It's about do we take the need?
Do we wear the armband?
It's just non-stop.
We look back a few years.
You know, we got stopped from wearing a poppy on our shirt.
You know, England weren't allowed to wear the poppy around, you know, and we stand for it.
I think we end up, did we wear it on our short or white shorts or something?
There was a change of whatever.
It's just, you know, I don't know.
We've gone out there to play this World Cup.
There's a million problems going on.
Everything's, you know, not right what they're up to.
You know, and something has to be done about it, obviously.
If we feel that strong, then Harry Kane would say we're going to, we should have worn the armband.
I think, as Roy Keene said, take the yellow card today and get on with it.
Gareth Bell, take the yellow card if you believe that strongly.
Well, you know what?
If you really make a statement out of the way, if we're really that morally outraged, don't go.
Right?
You know, people have boycotted World Cups, have boycotted Olympics.
If you feel that strongly...
Absolutely.
But I would say to England fans, don't go.
Don't get on their high horse about Qatar.
We did illegally invade Iraq, for example, only a few years ago.
We sparked two decades of ISIS terrorism with our illegal invasion of that country.
There are lots of people in the Middle East who have a pretty dim view of what we did.
And we've never been held accountable.
The ones have boycotted England and our sporting events because of it.
And I think if you are living in the Middle East, looking at that, again, you think double standards.
But Harry, let me turn to happier things.
England looked terrific today.
And I was particularly pleased that it looks like Arsenal are going to win the World Cup through Makaya Saka.
Listen, when you look at our squad peers, you look at the lads who came off the bench today.
That's what I thought, yeah.
Fantastic players.
And you suddenly, you're looking at, I watched a Holland team.
They couldn't live with us.
I mean, you look at their players.
You know, they've got two or three fantastic players.
You know, Van Dijk won a couple of great players.
After that, they've got a lot of average players who have been to England and never cracked it and are really not good enough to play at the top level here.
We've got a real opportunity, I think.
You know, I think we've got some incredible players, especially forward Bellingham.
What a young player, 19 years of age.
Saka looks fantastic.
Even the subs have come off the bench today.
Rashford came on off the bench and scored a great goal.
We scored such good goals.
You're all going overboard, though, aren't you?
Yeah, five.
I thought Iran were pretty nearly team.
So you go into the game, right?
Oh, they were shocking.
Yeah, you expect England to win.
Yeah.
Do you expect them to score six?
No.
Do you expect them to concede a couple of goals?
No.
So I think with England, you are where you are.
Peter, you've been in a World Cup three times.
But I still think we've got a good group of players here.
No, I agree.
I agree.
Harry, let me just start Peter Shorten.
I mean, when you win your first game like that, I mean, I've remembered lots of World Cups where we've got off to a ropey start where we're expected to win.
When you have a thumping win like that and you look so good, it does send a message to everybody else.
I've got American friends, obviously, the big game on Friday at US v. England.
And they're worried.
They're looking at us, going, wow, you look good.
Yeah, well, that's a good thing to put a bit of fear into people.
But I think it was the way we played and the quality of the goals.
You know, it wasn't that we were given a lot of the goals.
We actually, it was great moves, great football, and that was good.
I mean, but you know, you've just got to put that to the back of your mind because the game against the USA could be totally different.
USA look good tonight against Wales from the bit last year.
My biggest problem with the England team is just at the back.
You know, I think we just, we've not looked solid.
I mean, we've let in two goals again.
I know we scored six.
That would just be my fear.
But the creative players, Bellingham looks, you know, he looks colossal, doesn't he?
I think we're more Saka in this room.
FIFA's Sporting Disadvantage Move 00:04:46
I think one of us is.
I want to bring in, we've got a special Morgan Arena tonight.
This is the first time we've done this.
A live audience of real football fans joining us.
There they all are.
I want to go, I won't get to all of you, but you're all part of it, obviously.
I want to start with Mark Disley.
Now, Mark, where are you?
Disley.
Now, Mark, where are you?
Okay, I see you.
Now, Mark, you're not going to watch the World Cup at all.
Why?
Why?
I'm going to be a bit more honest than that, I think.
Hang on, we can't hear, Mark.
Oh, how we can now.
Mark, start again.
We couldn't hear you.
He's been silenced.
Yeah, I think I'm a bit more honest than to watch the World Cup, which is completely trashed by contracts, corruption.
You can't ignore 6,500 people buried under the stadiums they're playing in.
And that's just a simple fact.
But they choose to, and they say we have to do it for contractual reasons.
I was asked to comment about the Armbad.
Now, the Armband's a very simple thing.
It was a simple protest, which is globally supported, and he would have just won an Armbad.
And so what?
It wouldn't have changed anything, but they would have made their feelings known like the Iranians did.
And yeah, they will probably disappear for it.
Kain wouldn't have done...
Right, on the migrant workers, what I would say on that is there's a lot of dispute about exactly how many have died.
It's clearly reprehensible if even one has.
But the figure of 6,500 may include a lot of people who just died anyway in that 10-year process, but not from the conditions they were working in.
We don't actually know the exact number.
That's not to hide it or to defend any of it.
Clearly, a lot of people have died in the process of putting on this World Cup.
However, the number is disputed and we don't actually know, which is part of the problem.
Let me bring in now.
Slim Williamson.
Well, sorry, make your point, Mark, quickly.
The problem is, if they want to come up with a more credible number of people that have died, then do so.
Yeah.
But to say most of them have died because of heart attacks.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
It stresses credulity.
I agree with you.
Let me bring in Slim Williamson.
You think there's a lot of hypocrisy here, Slim?
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of hypocrisy going on.
I mean, we're countries not without issues at the moment.
I mean, ourselves included.
So if you're going to speak on Qatar's issues, then you have to speak on everyone else's issues.
And then if you're not going to have a World Cup in Qatar, then where are you going to have a World Cup?
Well, that's my problem.
Where is actually clean enough?
Where is morally pure enough?
Right?
Because one of the things about Qatar is that it's illegal to be gay in Qatar.
It's illegal to be gay in eight of the 32 countries left in the World Cup, right?
Including most of Africa.
So you can never have a World Cup in Africa, right?
So where do you have it?
You have it in America.
I've just explained they've got issues with their laws there.
Mexico has huge problems with human rights.
You know, I just don't know.
Once you put the moral halo on, I'm not sure where it stops that is pure enough to satisfy the critics.
Yeah, I agree 100% with you.
And I feel like us in this country, we're very, we pick what we want to be outraged at.
So yeah, we want to be outraged at, you know, Qatar, but then there'll be something else and we all just turn a blind eye to that.
So it stinks very much of hypocrisy to me.
I'm with you.
I want to bring in Zach Bookbinder.
You think that Qatar has the right to ban the one love armbands?
Tell me why.
Well, Hugo Laurie, he made a great point, I thought, where players coming into their country should respect their laws.
And I think it's the same with the alcohol.
If they don't want to provide alcohol, that's not a problem.
And if they're against, obviously, the LGBTQ community, I think it's just right to respect their laws.
That's what I believe.
Yeah, and I think on the beer point, I mean, it's not like we exactly showered ourselves in glory at the Euro finals, is it?
When I was there, it was absolutely disgusting.
A bunch of coat-snorting, booze-swilling, brawling imbeciles with no tickets, spreading COVID and beating everyone up they can get their hands on.
That's not the greatest advert of having beer around stadiums.
So sorry to any England fans offended by that, but I was there and it was horrible.
That was just the wages, though.
Just finally, for this part of the fan zone, as we're calling it, Harry Simu, Simu, there shouldn't be an issue with England wearing the armbands, you don't think, but you have got mixed feelings about it.
Tell me why.
I guess for me, I think the problem really is with FIFA.
You know, I think what they've done is they've put the teams in a position whereby they're at a sporting disadvantage if they wear it.
The yellow card thing can have a knock-on effect and have an impact later on in the tournament.
Ronaldo's Club Conflicts Explained 00:15:34
I know people have said, Roy Keene included, that you should just wear it and, you know, get on with it and sort of take the consequences.
And I get that a protest without consequence is not as powerful.
So I totally understand that.
But I think instead of sort of looking at the two teams and the decisions they've taken, I think we should be looking at the fact that FIFA have made a move to put these two sides at a sporting disadvantage if they actually follow through with this.
And that's the problem rather than sort of England or Wales.
Well, as we've been talking, a US journalist says he was briefly detained on Monday trying to enter a World Cup stadium in Qatar while wearing a rainbow shirt.
Grant Ward, a former sports illustrated journalist, said he was denied entry and he was asked to take his shirt off.
So there's a lot of stuff going on here.
A lot of attempts to suppress the virtue signalling.
We'll discuss more of this later on.
But also discuss, of course, my interview with Cristiano Ronaldo, which has, well, to put it mildly, it's got everybody going.
And it's probably got Cristiano Ronaldo going from Manchester United.
So we're going to debate that after the break, including a debate with Kevin Peterson, who, of course, was the England cricketer, who was drummed out of the England team in dissimilar circumstances, where respect played a major part, I think, in that decision making.
We'll talk to Kevin next.
Well, welcome back to Pearsburg Uncensored.
A staggering 60 million people have now viewed my interview with Cristiano Ronaldo online.
15 million of them.
I watched the whole thing.
45 million.
I watched all the clips.
Extraordinary numbers, an extraordinary, iconic sportsman who today passed 500 million followers on Instagram.
To put it in context, the next highest person followed on Instagram is Leonard Messi, his great rival.
124 million fewer followers.
So he's got 25% more followers on Instagram than anyone else alive.
Quite extraordinary.
Well, the explosive interview touched on Ronaldo's family and the ill-treatment he feels he suffered at the hands of Manchester United.
Let's remind you of some of the highlights from the interview.
We try to force you out, yes.
Not only the coach, but the other two or three guys there around the club.
At the senior executive level.
Yes, that I felt betrayed.
I don't know what's going on, but since Sarah Alex Ferguson left, I saw not evolution in the club.
The progress was zero.
The glazes, they don't care about the club.
The empathy with the coach is not good.
I'm honest.
You don't have a good relationship with him?
I'm not mean good relationship.
Do you think he respects you?
I think you don't respect the way I should deserve.
Well, you must have been worried sick.
I was very worried about your baby son and now your baby daughter's in hospital.
Exactly.
Kind of that didn't believe that something going wrong, which make me feel bad.
Really?
Yes, yes.
They didn't believe you.
They believe you, but in the same way, they are there.
Peace ever going to change the health of my family for a football.
Never.
Well, extraordinary stuff.
And it's made headlines, of course, around the entire world.
I've never had so many calls and texts and messages and emails asking for interviews or just commenting.
And this morning, in his first public appearance since the interview, Cristiano said he won't be silenced.
In my life, the best timing is always my timing.
Obviously, on your side, it's easy to give an opinion.
It's easy to write many times the truth, many lies about me.
The best timing is always my timing.
Well, we can all have our view about how Cristiano Ronaldo might be feeling, why he did this, but sometimes the best people to ask are those who've been in the cauldron of high-level sport.
Kevin Peterson is, for me, the best England batsman of the generation, but his international career for England was cut short after high-profile fallout with his employees, the ECB, and he joins me now.
Kevin, great to see you.
When you watched it, what did you make of Ronaldo's mindset?
Why he did this?
What may have been behind it?
I think he's at the end of his tether.
I think if you read the reports and you see why he's been in the news and how many times he's been in the news, for all the wrong reasons by him, but all the right reasons by clearly his employees.
And these things happen to people for reasons that they don't want.
And it's when I was watching, I mean, I just got back from Dubai yesterday and I got up every morning and I just watched it.
I was one of your 15 million that watched the full interview.
I didn't watch you.
I watched him, Piers.
And It was incredibly enlightening.
It was incredibly enlightening because you can sort of see a similar position to what I had.
Now, not for any stretch of the imagination am I sitting here saying that I'm as famous as Cristiano Rorala because it's absolutely not true.
You just talked about how famous he is.
But what you could see is that actually he's very unhappy in a place that he should be happy.
And feels disrespected.
Well, forget disrespect.
I hate the word disrespect.
There are two places when you are in the cauldron and you are top athlete and you're right at the top of your game where you should feel happy, you should feel comfortable and you should be able to do whatever you want because that's where you should be free.
That's at home with your family.
And the second place is at the training ground.
You can see he's unhappy at the training ground.
Now, I know that Carrington, and I think it's called Carrington, where Man United trains, their facility isn't up to scratch.
No.
Have a look at his social media and look where he trains.
Look how he practices.
To be the best, you have to live the best life.
And to be the best, you have to continually need to grow.
And we all talk about being that high-level athlete, it's that extra 1%.
What is it like?
I remember this review when you were going through your problems with England.
We spoke a lot over that time.
And the thing that really incensed you was all this drip, drip, drip of stuff that was coming out about you, most of which I knew wasn't true because you were telling me the reality.
Cristiano, the same thing.
It's the constant drip, drip, drip of negative stories about him, 95% of which he says are completely untrue.
I've been talking to him regularly for six months through this process.
And I know when I fact-check these things in real time, he said it's not true.
It's not true.
It's not true.
Or one is true or whatever.
It's a constant overriding negativity.
Well, you know, you've been editor of newspapers, you've been in the media.
There are stories that get drip-fed to journalists about certain things.
And people who want to knife them.
Who want to knife certain athletes?
And one thing I hate is that tall poppy syndrome.
I mean, why can't he be celebrated here?
I mean, I was in Dubai now.
I got back yesterday, and no one can believe how this country are going after Cristiano Ronaldo.
They cannot believe it.
The people in the airports, in the hotels, everybody knows.
Because he's a god of it.
Why on earth are people going at him?
I mean, he is such a proven performer.
But you can see his frustration and you can identify the issues.
He goes back to a facility that's not up to scratch.
He goes to a facility where he wants to be the best, where he wants to maintain standards.
You say you don't like the word disrespect.
I mean, he used that a lot because he feels that if you're not respected for what you've achieved in the game, and he still believes you have a lot to offer, he's super fit, as you know.
You were very fit, actually, when you left England.
You could have played for another five, six years.
He thinks he's got another two or three years at least.
He felt there was just a disrespect from everyone there that had decision-making power.
Yeah, well, I think that he is at that level where he commands respect because of what he's achieved in the game.
I do.
I agree with you.
I think he's the greatest footballer that's played the game.
He turns the needle.
That's what he does.
And there's a reason why he's still making headlines four or five days after the interview because of who he is.
There's not many athletes in the world that can do that.
And so there's a reason also why he's in that position because of the way that he practices, because of the way that he lives his life, because of the sacrifices that he's had to make as an individual to achieve what he's achieved.
You understand that.
I know that you, you know, for all your obvious many faults.
Not as many as you.
But for all your many faults, everyone will be a good idea.
We've got one big fault.
We've chosen you.
But even if your colleagues had a problem with you personally, whatever, they all said the same thing.
You were the first in and out and last out of training.
Ronaldo, the same.
You never hear anything about his training regime.
He's unbelievably self-driven.
And you had that as well whilst having this polarizing reputation about it.
Do you relate to him on that level?
Well, I think it's those one percenters.
And to be the best, you have to tick every single box.
And I'll go back to it.
You have to be happy at home where he is, but where he also hasn't been over the last six months.
I mean, you're only...
Well, the two things came together because he lost his basement.
As a parent, you're only as happy as your unhappiest child.
Right.
And I think that's what I'm saying.
But he went through total change.
Exactly right.
Exactly right.
And you know what?
If what he said is true about them not believing what's been happening with his family, and I can't say whether it's true or not, he says it is true.
That's almost unforgivable.
Because he's a human at the end of the day.
Yes, he's super famous.
Yes, he's worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
He's achieved it because he's amazing at what he does.
He plays a lot of people.
What did you think of the particular point you made on the field when Ten Haag, the new coach, doesn't bring him on against Manchester City and says he did so out of respect.
And then the next game, they're winning easily against Tottenham and he wants to bring him on with three minutes to go.
Completely contradicting what he'd said the week before.
I think, and my footman knowledge isn't amazing, but I think there was a quote from Ten Haag talking about the fact that he was the fourth in line to Captain United a couple of days or a couple of games after his issue where he walked off the field.
It's something that even if you think it as a coach, you don't say it in public.
And that's what I can't understand.
Now, that's why I actually agree with everything that Cristiano has said, purely based on the fact that no coach, if he cares about his player, would do that.
I agree.
Mourinho, why was Mourinho amazing?
Why did Lampard, Terry, Drogba, all these guys, I mean, I did all my rehab for my Achilles at Cobham at Chelsea's training ground.
Why did they love Mourinho?
If the team had a bad game, Mourinho made the game about it.
Ferguson was the same.
Vengea was the same.
All the great managers, I think, protect their players.
You've got to protect the players.
KP, stay here.
We're going to come back and get more from you and from my virtual audience all watching here.
Some shaking their heads in derision, others nodding, agreeing.
This is certainly dividing people.
So we'll debate the Ronaldo interview and the fallout after the break.
Well, welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Before the break, we heard from cricket legend Kevin Peterson and sympathy for Cristiano Ronaldo's position at Manchester United.
KP's still with me, as is former Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenson, almost chief sports reporter for The Times, Martin Ziegler.
So Martin, let me go to you.
You're not a supporter of Cristiano Ronaldo.
In fact, quite the opposite.
Why?
Well, I mean, this isn't about your great scoop, Piers.
I mean, which was obviously an excellent get, but it's the reason why Cristiano Ronaldo did this and what's happened as a result.
And I believe he's lost, tarnished his legacy with the Manchester United supporters.
This was somebody who was a hero for many, many years and people absolutely loved him, all the Manchester United fans.
Now, a lot of people, a lot of the fans, I think, are really, really unhappy.
He talked about betrayal.
I think they feel betrayed.
Well, they might, but football fans are very, very fickle, aren't they?
Because they were all sucking up to Ronaldo when he scored 24 goals last season and was banging in hat-tricks and was player of the season and so on.
You know, they're all chanting Viva Ronaldo.
He's only started four games this season and they've already got on his back.
And they've done it because the media's been very negative.
And he believes a lot of that's been driven by people at the club who have a problem with him.
So I think these things can be, you know, the fans can be sold a line about a player.
I saw this at Arsenal with a Bami name, which I thought he was also treated very unfairly.
They can buy into a narrative which may not be true.
And I think that may have happened with Ronaldo.
Depends what you want from your, I think, what you want when your career ends and when you look back.
Do you want to think, the club that made me, do I want to look back on that with dignity and with self-respect?
And I don't think you can now.
It didn't do Roy Keene.
I mean, listen, Roy Keene is still a United legend.
He did exactly the same thing as Ronaldo.
He just did it on Man United TV.
I mean, there's no difference to me about what he did.
And you talk about tarnishing legends.
I mean, Maradona, you know, you take all the drugs and the mafia links and all that kind of stuff.
None of that cared to his legacy.
And what's Ronaldo done that's so bad?
He's incredibly fit.
He works hard.
He's committed.
He eats well.
He doesn't really drink much.
You know, he's in many ways he's a perfect role model.
He's just finally decided to have his say, given that everybody else has had their say about him for the last six months and been blaming him for all United's problems.
I don't really have a problem with that.
That's the key.
What has he done?
What has he done?
This is somebody who's earning a huge amount of money, a huge amount of money, millions and millions of pounds.
Yeah, but Martin, you can't go back on money.
Well, no, if he feels frustrated and he's not getting a fair show, well, go to Manchester United and say, you know, you do not have to pay me for the rest of my contract.
I'm worth $500 million.
I really don't think it's about money.
Let's bring him Mark Lawrence.
I don't think money is the issue.
He's got half a billion.
Piers, I think we're missing the point here.
This is a story about a footballer who's been a brilliant footballer.
I think we'd all agree with that.
Absolutely totally.
But he's dealing with the fact that he's not got the same strengths that he's had.
He can't do the same things that he's had.
And consequently, in his head, he still feels that he can't.
But he admitted that he admitted that in my interview, he's not the same as he was.
But what he said was, he just scored 24 goals last season, six in the Champions League.
He scored one more Premier League goal than Harry Kane, who is lauded as one of the best strikers in the world.
So he may have diminished the powers by his own standards.
But actually, by the standards of the Premier League last season, he was right up there with the best.
Last season.
Last season.
But this seems another season.
But when you're 37, you know, eventually it's like you stop.
But add what's happened to him off the field.
Add the fact that he lost a child.
And then his daughter that survived the tragedy had a week in hospital.
He's incredibly worried about that.
That's why he didn't go back to pre-season.
Put all that together.
This has all happened in the space of...
Go on, but why?
So, right, so you're 10 hag, you're the manager, right?
And with all his capabilities that Ronaldo had or has, whichever way you want to look at it, why wouldn't you play him?
Crying Over Lost Legacy 00:09:57
This guy sees him every single day in training, and he's made this decision, which is you're not going to play.
But if you're not going to play him, still treat him with respect and have sympathy for him and look after him.
Treat him like the legend that he is.
Kevin, I get that.
Don't drip feed to the media because that's what we hate.
What we hate is waking up in the morning and seeing constant lies.
And I don't buy the theory about he's on this amount of money.
There's a reason why he's on that amount of money.
Because he is the greatest.
It's got nothing to do with it.
He is the greatest footballer that's played the game.
No, he's not.
Messi is, but there you go.
Ronaldo is.
But let's go back to Martin.
You've been listening patiently, Martin.
I genuinely don't think the money has got any to do with Ronaldo's thing here because he's got so much of it.
I think he's quite happy not to get any more money from United.
I think what he wants, he wants respect and he wants to go somewhere where he feels he'll get properly valued.
And his assessment of his abilities right now is that he's lost none of his ability from last season.
He's just not been given the same chances.
Well, he talks a lot about respect, doesn't he?
But I don't think Cristiano Ronaldo is treating people with respect.
I think that he believes he should start.
You know, he won't come off the subs bench because he thinks it's sort of beneath his dignity.
He leaves a match early.
That sort of behaviour is not the behaviour of the best player.
Well, he apologised for that.
He apologised in the interview.
And he apologised to his teammates.
But he didn't apologise to Ten Hog because the week before, Ten Hogg hadn't brought him on because he said he respected him too much.
And then the next week, he wants to bring him on with three minutes left when they're winning 2-0.
Why is that not disrespectful?
If you yourself have said you didn't bring him on the week before out of respect.
Well, I just think you've got to rise above this as a player.
You can't have your own sort of, it seems to me, a sort of petty squabble about whether you're coming on for, just do it for the team.
Don't think about yourself all the time.
I know he's had really awful personal problems.
And it's very, absolutely, people should be putting an arm around him and helping him.
But when it comes to those moments on the field of player, just do it for the team.
Where do you think he goes, Piers?
I think he goes to another big club.
I think he'll have a good World Cup.
I think he's going to have a good World Cup and surprise you.
One thing.
I absolutely think he'll be a Champions League team.
Yeah.
Okay.
Stephen.
How much do you want?
Stanford Bridges just down the road.
I'll bet you Ronaldo's weekly salary goes to a Champions League team.
No, you're all right.
Breaking news, Gareth Bale has equalised for Wales against Team US.
82nd minute with a penalty.
So good news there.
Let's go back to the Morgan Arena.
I want to bring in Theo Delaney.
You think Cristiano has an over-inflated sense of his own importance?
Why?
Well, it's clear, isn't it?
It's a team game.
And football's full of players who think they should be in the team or think they shouldn't be taken off or brought on or benched or whatever.
And he thinks that he shouldn't be playing under those conditions.
He thinks he should be treated specially.
And I understand why.
Like you say, he's got more social media followers than anyone else on earth.
He's got more money than any other footballer, probably, possibly barring Messi.
He's rightly admired for being one of the greatest players of all time.
But at the end of the day, it's a team game.
And the manager has to make those decisions.
All the other players who are struggling with these things week in, week out, and they're in every club.
Yeah, but they don't.
I think to be fair to Cristiano Ronaldo, they don't have the same pressures or responsibilities that come with being the GOAT.
Jonathan Kidd.
Absolutely.
Let me bring in Jonathan Kidd.
You think Ten Hag, the manager, should have communicated better with Ronaldo?
Yeah, well, I think he's been forced to engineer this move now, hasn't he, Ronaldo?
Because he should really be playing every game.
He's scored 24 the year before.
Obviously, we don't know what's going on on the training ground.
But I think you should build the team around Ronaldo in the same way that Chelsea have managed with Thiago Silva to keep him going, because even though he's 37, he's fitness personified.
And I think that I think they should be making a place for Ronaldo.
He's one of the best footballers in the world.
And I just don't get this.
And I can see why I think he's engineered this move.
Yeah, I completely agree with that.
What you must remember is that Ten Hog sees him every day in training.
He does, yeah.
Right, so don't you think Ten Hag's just got them?
It depends how good you think Ten Hag is.
Well, wait a minute, he's a very unproven manager, never won anything outside of Holland.
So far.
Right, but if at the end of the season, for example, without Ronaldo, United end up sixth or seventh.
Yeah, well, they haven't won the Europa League.
Let me judge him.
But what I'm saying is, so therefore, right, so Ten Hag has got to win games.
If he thought that Ronaldo could play every week and score every week and win games, he'd play.
You know what?
If I made you a game, no, no, you know what you do if you're Ten Hog?
You lie to the media and keep telling the media how much you love him and how you'll start him.
You protect him.
That is what you do to players of his quality.
You look after him, you protect him, you put your arm around him and you love him.
Let me bring in Dave Seeger.
You think Cristiano thinks he's bigger than the club.
I mean, he's got, I think, 20 times as many Instagram followers as Manchester United.
I was just saying, some players actually are bigger than clubs, right?
I mean, Ronaldo is the biggest football star in the world.
After messing.
I just think, I think, to be honest with you, Piers, I think, and the rest of the panel, I think the one thing we haven't discussed at all, which I think is the most important thing, is it's about the football.
And it's about which style of football the manager wants to play.
Now, last year when he was signed by Solskjaer, there was a certain style of football.
Maybe Solskjaer believed that Ronaldo fitted to that style.
Ten Hogg wants to play a different style of football.
He wants to play high-pressing, very, very energetic football.
And Ronaldo is 67.
It's as simple as that.
And he's been a footballer for him.
67?
He's not that old.
But it's very good for 67.
I can tell you that.
He's older than me.
Good point there, Dave.
Final word, man.
If you're a manager changes, you're liable to have a change of style.
They should have let him go in the summer then.
You have to accept it.
Final word to you guys.
What do you think happens with Ronaldo now, Mark?
He goes.
Where to?
No one in the Champions League.
Really?
He might go to Saudi, to your mate in Saudi.
He's already turned down 350 million.
Can you imagine doing that?
How many?
350 million Euros to get a joint Saudi Arabia.
I know that for a fact.
I know from the guy who made the offer.
Would you?
Would you turn down 305 million?
Not for the money.
Why would you offer him £350 million for goodness?
Because actually in Saudi Arabia, they think he's like a sporting god.
And he would transform Saudi Arabia.
Have you seen Saudi Arabia?
I don't think he'd enjoy playing at that level.
He wants to play top level.
I admire the hunger of a guy with half a billion in the bank who's 37 years old, who still wants to kick it at the highest level.
Listen, I get it, but I'm afraid at that level.
No, no, no.
Got to leave it there, guys.
Thank you, Kevin.
Mark, great to see you.
And thank you to Martin.
Really appreciate it.
Next, I'm joined by my pack.
At least one of whom I think knows a bit about football.
Not quite as convinced by the other two.
Well, we're about to find out.
Welcome back to Bears Organizations to join now by my PAC tonight in Tall TV contributors Esther Krako and Ava Santina and Daily Merit Associate Editor Kevin.
We're just talking social media, Firepower.
I've got 8 million Twitter followers and nearly 2 million Instagram.
How are you guys doing?
Just a bit under that.
Smidgering.
I've got to say, when I suddenly saw he'd gone to 500 million followers on Instagram, that is a level of stardom and fame you can't even imagine.
There's only 8 billion people in the world and that includes people in India and China who may not have access to Instagram.
One in 16 of the world is following him.
What do you make of the Ronaldo interview, the fallout, everything?
You know what I love is he's spoken out.
Yes.
And I'm sick and tired as a football fan of being told a player is ill or injured and you know there's a big falling out and he's honest about it.
I mean Man United have to deal with it.
Dave, what do you think?
Yeah, I mean it's massive.
It's probably the best interview of the year, but you know that.
Only this year.
Only this year.
Fantastic.
But you know, I think it reveals so much about him that, I mean, my opinion is slightly different to yours.
I think it kind of shows a man who's getting a little bit on in the career and he sort of knows that it's up to you.
But he's aware of that.
He said that in the interview.
Sure.
But I thought it was so fascinating to see someone that raw.
I thought you brought that out of him, actually.
I mean, I was laughing with him afterwards because, of course, I had my little bust up at Good Morning Britain.
And I knew what he meant.
It's like when you feel disrespect, sometimes you just gotta go with your gut and say, I'm not having it.
You've got to be in a position to be able to do that.
Yes.
Which he clearly is.
I mean, I agree with that.
And you were, and that's a strength.
But there's always two sides to a story.
And I would like somebody from Manchester United.
They've been deafening so far in their silence and not really denying anything he's said.
I mean, I mean, it's an interesting thing, isn't it?
If you just take it to the employment level, you've got this massive figure who's now basically taken on his employer.
But the thing is, as a lifelong United fan, he's not saying anything that we haven't, the club, the supporters of the club haven't been saying for ages.
I mean, even as Latin said something similar, we always knew Pogba wasn't very happy towards his latter end.
Mourinho said it.
Exactly.
Van Haal said it.
And he's just confirming what the fans knew.
I think my respect for him has gone through the roof because it's clear he never did any of this.
Is his legacy United tarnished?
Oh, absolutely.
He could be tying his shoelaces for the next 20 years and his legacy.
That's what I think.
I think it's a ridiculous thing to say.
He's tarnished.
I mean, Roy Keene is beloved and he fell out just as spectacularly.
Let's move to virtue signalling.
You and I would use a different phrase for this.
But what happened today with the armband was exactly what I feared, which is once you start doing this kind of thing, if you don't then follow through and you say that we're going, we're going to make our stand there, and then you bottle it when you're threatened with a yellow card, the whole thing looks like an insincere sham.
Tarnished Legacies and Culture 00:02:39
Like, I'm not a big fan of armed bands with statements, but I think the people who come out of this badly are FIFA because they've sold the World Cup to the Qatari.
And so do the players.
One of those players.
I mean, it took Alex Scott, one of the pundits that Alex Scott, to actually put the armband on.
They have sold it to a vile regime.
I've been at the Qatar twice to go to the Labour camp.
I saw the exploitation of workers treated appallingly.
But you would say that about anywhere in the Middle East, right?
Some are better than others.
But the thing is, where would you allow a World Cup to take place in the Middle East?
Well, actually, Egypt, although it's got a very low human rights.
It's a footballing nation.
That's where you lose me.
How can you possibly say Egypt has better human rights than Qatar?
Because it does.
But I wouldn't.
But no, I argue.
I argue Egypt because it's a footballing nation.
Right.
Okay, but Qatar represents the Middle East.
But I wouldn't send it to you.
Bring it down a little bit.
So I really agree with your point where you were talking about virtue signalling.
But what I didn't like today was we were talking about LGBT and we were talking about how it's not quite right with their culture.
Being gay is not a culture.
It's not a lifestyle.
It's denial.
That's just your existence.
Eight of the last 32 teams in the tournament outlaw homosexuality.
Fine, but I think you can appreciate.
One in four.
You can appreciate that during that game today, the Iranians looked incredibly brave in front of our team who wouldn't even wear a silly little armband.
I'm sorry, I actually take a completely different view.
I think it's completely disrespectful to wear that.
I'm not going to come into your house.
No, I'm serious.
You do not go to someone else's country and flagrantly disrespect their culture.
I'm not going to come into your house and start jumping on your bed.
Being gay is not a culture.
Let's put that on the table right now, right?
Homosexuality.
I wouldn't come to your house.
Hold on, but I would never come to your house and start jumping on your bed with my shoes on because I respect you and your home.
You don't go to someone's bed with your shoes on.
It's very difficult.
It is disrespectful being on.
Listen, I agree with you.
I agree with you.
But what happens when we go to America, given their laws on abortion?
And abortion, exactly.
Are we going to have the same moralizing by the BBC, the same monologue?
Yes.
We're not, though.
They're not going to do that.
But that's silly because the US and UK have an equally pressuring relationship and we should be pressurizing those states in the US to leave.
We shouldn't be pressurising anyone.
We're going to take away the army.
Let's end on a happy note.
Are we going to win the World Cup after today's exhilarating 6-2 picture?
No.
Get me out, Sean and the Bell.
I doubt it.
Do you know what?
I actually think you're going to have a chance.
I feel very encouraged by that today.
Mainly because the best player was Bakayo Saka, who is an Arsenal player.
Oh, God.
A banged in two girls.
Arsenal are going to win the world.
That's it for me.
Thank you.
The pack.
Thanks to my virtual audience.
It was great.
Sorry didn't get to all of you.
Whatever you're up to.
Keep it uncensored.
And come on, England.
The Knights.
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