Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20221109_piers-morgan-uncensored-imran-khan
Aired: 2022-11-09
Duration: 47:08


=== Assassins and the Plot (11:19) ===

[00:00:02]  Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensored, a stunning exclusive interview and a dramatic story of survival.
[00:00:13]  Imran Khan on his extraordinary escape from assassins.
[00:00:18]  My right leg buckled under me because it was hit by these bullets.
[00:00:24]  And initially it felt like a burning sensation.
[00:00:32]  Live from London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
[00:00:37]  Well good evening from London, welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
[00:00:40]  Tonight, a dramatic and exclusive interview with one of the most explosive figures in global politics.
[00:00:45]  He's the world-class horseman who became a world leader.
[00:00:48]  And just five days ago, he cheated death.
[00:00:51]  Imran Khan is known across the planet as a legendary cricketer.
[00:00:55]  As captain of Pakistan, he was a nation's hero before sensationally becoming its prime minister.
[00:01:01]  Earlier this year, he was ousted from power in what he insists was a conspiracy.
[00:01:05]  And last week, rallying supporters for a march on the capital and a stunning political comeback, this happened.
[00:01:33]  Well, that gun attack on his convoy killed one person and injured at least ten more.
[00:01:39]  A suspect was arrested after a supporter overpowered him.
[00:01:42]  Tonight, for the first time on UK television, Imran Khan tells the full dramatic story of surviving his assassination attempt.
[00:01:51]  In slow motion, I felt, and I honestly, even when I was lying there with these three bullets, I felt I'd been saved.
[00:01:59]  He reveals his fiery views on the plot to kill him.
[00:02:03]  The more my party got popular, the more we sort of swept the by-elections, the more danger to my life.
[00:02:10]  His chilling fears for the future.
[00:02:13]  People are so worried.
[00:02:14]  In my country, right now, I've never had this feeling before because they know that the guys who missed this time will try again.
[00:02:24]  And his verdict on Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and racism in the UK.
[00:02:30]  I never thought that a day would come and Britain would be ready for an Indian origin Prime Minister.
[00:02:37]  It's a remarkable interview.
[00:02:39]  We cover lots of ground.
[00:02:40]  And I began with a very sincere and heartfelt message.
[00:02:45]  Well, I'm joined now by Imran Khan.
[00:02:47]  Imran, great to see you, and it really is great to see you.
[00:02:50]  How are you?
[00:02:51]  It's my first question.
[00:02:55]  Recovering, Piers.
[00:02:57]  I've had three bullets taken out from my right leg and some shrapnel on my left leg.
[00:03:03]  So one of the bullets has fractured my shin bone.
[00:03:08]  So that would take a bit of time.
[00:03:10]  But I'm recovering.
[00:03:12]  Glad that it could have been a lot worse.
[00:03:16]  You know, it was back in June that we spoke and I asked you directly about how you felt about the threat of assassination.
[00:03:24]  You were aware of a plot then to try and kill you.
[00:03:27]  When I entered politics, I actually had conquered my fear of dying.
[00:03:31]  But when that moment happens, when you start to hear gunfire, what on earth was that like for you?
[00:03:40]  Do you know First it sounded like firecrackers.
[00:03:45]  And then my right leg buckled under me because it was hit by these bullets.
[00:03:53]  And initially it felt like a burning sensation.
[00:03:57]  And as I was falling, there was another, there were two shooters.
[00:04:00]  One was on the left side.
[00:04:03]  And he would have got me on the top body, but he was only 20 feet away.
[00:04:07]  So this very brave person in the crowd went after him and went for the gun.
[00:04:13]  So the gun went down, you know, this pistol which was on automatic.
[00:04:20]  And when it went down, it hit my leg.
[00:04:22]  So when I fell, there was another shooter in front.
[00:04:26]  And when he fired, the bullets went over me.
[00:04:28]  So as I was falling, these bullets were going over me.
[00:04:31]  Only you, Imran, could be slightly smiling as you tell this story.
[00:04:35]  I mean, to me, this sounds utterly horrifying.
[00:04:38]  This is two people trying to kill you.
[00:04:44]  It was a plot.
[00:04:45]  Look, Piers, I told you when I spoke to you in June that there was this plot.
[00:04:51]  Why did they want to kill me?
[00:04:53]  Because when the whole conspiracy to change my government and this regime changed, they expected that the party would just wither away or it'll take years for it to recover.
[00:05:06]  In fact, what happened was that unprecedented public reaction and you had millions of people coming on the streets the next day to protest against the regime change.
[00:05:17]  So I think from then onwards, what they expected was that my popularity or my party would go down.
[00:05:24]  In fact, it went up.
[00:05:26]  That's when my life came in danger.
[00:05:29]  So there was a first plot, four people decided to bump me off.
[00:05:36]  I found out, because remember, I was head of the intelligence agencies for three and a half years when I was the prime minister.
[00:05:43]  So I named those people in a video and announced that if anything happens to me, these four people would be exposed.
[00:05:50]  They're powerful people.
[00:05:52]  And then because of that, it protected me.
[00:05:55]  But then the party became even stronger.
[00:05:58]  75% of all by-elections were swept by my party against all the parties put together.
[00:06:05]  So 11 parties on one ticket and my party on, and we got 75% of the election.
[00:06:11]  So that's when the second plot came in.
[00:06:14]  Now, this plot was to have me bumped off by a religious fanatic.
[00:06:19]  And it would be that I had committed blasphemy.
[00:06:21]  So this plot started in September.
[00:06:26]  And I found out, again, how I find out is from within the intelligence agencies.
[00:06:31]  Because people are appalled by what is going on here.
[00:06:35]  So I found out.
[00:06:38]  I again went on public rallies, two public rallies on 24th of September and 7th of October and said that they are preparing the grounds and it was a media first which prepared the ground and I know who was behind it.
[00:06:56]  And then they would have some exactly what happened to me.
[00:06:59]  Someone would claim I'm a religious fanatic.
[00:07:01]  He's offended my sensitivities about religion and he would shoot me.
[00:07:08]  So this was again it's on record.
[00:07:11]  The whole script I announced in a public two public rallies and that's what happened.
[00:07:16]  That's what they did.
[00:07:17]  Imran, notwithstanding the fact that you had these threats on your life, to actually go out and face big crowds week in, week out, month in, month out.
[00:07:28]  You know, I know you from your past as a fearless cricketer.
[00:07:32]  This is a whole different world thinking that somebody may be there wanting to take your life.
[00:07:37]  How did you deal with that?
[00:07:38]  How did it make you feel?
[00:07:43]  Piers, when they imposed this government of crooks, and let me tell you, the whole country knows it's a government of two families who've been stealing money from this country, who've been in jail, their books written on their corruption.
[00:07:58]  I came into politics to fight these two families.
[00:08:01]  So when they brought them back through a conspiracy and imposed them on us, I decided that I was not going to sit at home.
[00:08:08]  And that's when I went out in the public.
[00:08:10]  And for six months, I was campaigning.
[00:08:13]  Now, during these six months, frequently I would get this message that, you know, there's going to be a bomb blast or you're a suicide attacker or your life is at threat.
[00:08:24]  And so I took a conscious decision.
[00:08:26]  Do I accept these crooks to rule over us just because my life is at threat?
[00:08:34]  Or should I believe, as I believe in God, as a Muslim, that life and death is in his hands?
[00:08:41]  So I took a decision.
[00:08:43]  I said, look, whatever happens, I know that these big guns are threatened, this, what should I say, mafias are threatened.
[00:08:53]  And the more my party got popular, the more we sort of swept the by-elections, the more danger to my life.
[00:09:00]  Now, when the first plot, which I mentioned earlier, the second plot was, you know, I knew, as I said, in a public rally, I spoke about it.
[00:09:13]  Now, as I was falling, when the bullets hit my leg and I fell and these bullets went over my head, and then I felt my body, because when the shooting stopped, I felt sort of where, and I felt my leg was hit.
[00:09:28]  It was numb.
[00:09:29]  But I checked my top body.
[00:09:31]  Then I realized that the Almighty had saved me.
[00:09:34]  Because there's no way I should have been saved because there were two shooters, one very close, 20 feet, the other one right in the building in front.
[00:09:42]  There's no way I should have survived it.
[00:09:45]  But, you know, that reinforced my faith in the Almighty.
[00:09:50]  I mean, it was an astonishing escape.
[00:09:53]  You know, by all, you know, if you look at the footage, you just assume that in that scenario, your chances of survival are very small.
[00:10:04]  You know, Piers, this guy, I mean, the hero, there are two heroes that saved me.
[00:10:11]  One was this guy, when he saw him taking this pistol out, this guy immediately went for his hand.
[00:10:19]  And, you know, when he tried to grab the gun, the gun went down, and that's how I was saved.
[00:10:26]  Because I would have got all the bullets on my top body.
[00:10:30]  So they went at my legs.
[00:10:32]  And then, you know, this other guy also tried to...
[00:10:35]  He had two magazines still.
[00:10:37]  So if this guy hadn't intervened, the guy would have fixed two magazines and kept shooting.
[00:10:42]  And then, you know, when the other guy hit us, because it hit my leg, I collapsed.
[00:10:47]  So the bullets went over my head.
[00:10:50]  In slow motion, I felt, and I honestly, even when I was lying there with these three bullets, I felt I'd been saved.
[00:10:57]  I mean, truly remarkable.
[00:10:59]  The first guy who raced to your rescue, who you can see in the pictures, pushing the shooter's gun up.
[00:11:08]  And then the second guy you see trying to run towards you, then as he pushes him away, he falls over and very sadly, it transpires he lost his life.
[00:11:17]  This man really gave his life to save you.
[00:11:20]  How do you feel about him?

=== Courage to Save a Life (07:23) ===

[00:11:22]  He had come to this rally with his two kids.
[00:11:25]  And so he, with two kids there, he went for the gunman who shot him in the face.
[00:11:32]  Now, that was really tragic.
[00:11:34]  I mean, that really touched not just me, the whole of the country, because there was this picture of him lying dead and his kids sitting either side trying to wake him up.
[00:11:44]  You know, it was, I think that was probably the most awful sight I've seen.
[00:11:52]  So I called his family, I saw, met his kids, and we have decided to take care of them for the rest of their lives.
[00:11:59]  Yeah, I mean, I think that's a very honorable thing to do.
[00:12:02]  Remarkable courage they showed.
[00:12:05]  You also, Imran, you have kids back here in the UK, and your ex-wife Jemima was on Twitter saying how relieved they all were to see that you'd survived this.
[00:12:16]  But, you know, in those moments, you must also, you're a father.
[00:12:20]  You know, what were your thoughts once you knew you'd survived about your sons?
[00:12:25]  Did you want to speak to them quickly?
[00:12:26]  Because obviously they would hear about it perhaps before you could even talk to them.
[00:12:32]  I did.
[00:12:33]  Well, you know, I was driven from there.
[00:12:38]  It almost took me two hours to get to the hospital which I built, which is the best, for me, the best hospital in Pakistan because three times I've been treated there and I'm quite scared of needles and stuff like that.
[00:12:53]  So I went to the hospital two hours drive.
[00:12:57]  The moment I got there, then I spoke to my sons.
[00:13:00]  And of course I spoke to my wife.
[00:13:02]  Both of them.
[00:13:03]  My wife actually was remarkable.
[00:13:10]  The fact that I was saved, she was quite relieved.
[00:13:13]  But my boys were sort of quite worried.
[00:13:15]  And I hope to see them soon.
[00:13:17]  And then are they keen for you now to stay out of the public eye?
[00:13:20]  I've got three sons in their 20s.
[00:13:23]  I would imagine if something similar happened to me, the first thing they would want is an assurance from their father that I wouldn't be putting myself over the parapet.
[00:13:31]  I know you and I know how committed you are to this.
[00:13:33]  I'm sure you want to continue.
[00:13:35]  But is that on your mind, your sons and how they feel?
[00:13:43]  My sons, when they were younger, I'm talking about my older son was very sensitive.
[00:13:50]  So when they were about eight, nine years old, my older son, that's when he used to worry a lot.
[00:13:58]  And he always wanted me out of politics.
[00:14:01]  But I feel that we human beings have a responsibility to our society.
[00:14:10]  And this is the spiritual way of life.
[00:14:12]  There are two ways.
[00:14:12]  One is material yourself, the other is the spiritual.
[00:14:16]  And some 30 years ago, when I went on the spiritual path, that's the only reason I came into politics because I realized I had a responsibility being so privileged in this country.
[00:14:26]  So therefore, you have to have faith.
[00:14:30]  And faith is in God.
[00:14:32]  And the one verse in the Quran that it's when the Almighty decides, it's not one minute before or one minute after.
[00:14:41]  That's your time.
[00:14:43]  So when I was lying on that, you know, with these bullets, I knew I'd been saved.
[00:14:48]  So it's so easy, you know, and as I've sat in a cancer hospital, I built this hospital for five years.
[00:14:54]  My office was there.
[00:14:56]  I saw healthy people coming and going in six months, or some being saved.
[00:15:00]  So life and death, I feel, you know, we worry too much that we have control over it.
[00:15:06]  We don't.
[00:15:07]  It's in Almighty's hands.
[00:15:10]  What is going to be your response, Imran?
[00:15:12]  Are you just going to continue putting yourself out there, going back on protest marches, continuing to fight your cause?
[00:15:19]  Will nothing change?
[00:15:23]  Well, no, the moment my leg heals, I'm going to be out again.
[00:15:27]  But, you know, people are so worried.
[00:15:30]  In my country, right now, I've never had this feeling before because they know that the guys who missed this time will try again.
[00:15:39]  Public in Pakistan knows this, because these are powerful people.
[00:15:44]  And they also are worried that if now, whenever there are elections, my party is going to sweep the elections.
[00:15:52]  All opinion polls, surveys, all these by-elections, they reflect that my party now is the most popular party in Pakistan.
[00:16:02]  So because of this threat and worried if I win, they are going to try again.
[00:16:08]  We all know it.
[00:16:10]  So I've doubled my security at my house.
[00:16:13]  I mean, you are a remarkably phlegmatic character, Imran.
[00:16:18]  And again, I go back to when I watched you play cricket and you faced the fastest bowlers probably the world has ever seen.
[00:16:24]  And you did it with swashbuckling panache and audacity and courage.
[00:16:28]  But it's one thing facing fast bowlers in a cricket match, quite another going back out after people have tried to shoot you dead and know that they may try again.
[00:16:38]  Where are you getting this strength of character from?
[00:16:44]  Peirce, faith.
[00:16:46]  I have, you know, I never really had faith in my life till much later, at the end of my cricketing career.
[00:16:54]  And it's very clear there are two ways of spending your life.
[00:16:58]  One is, you know, where you're conscious, the spiritual life, which is that there is a purpose to existence.
[00:17:05]  And how much the Almighty gives you, the more responsibility he puts on you.
[00:17:10]  So that's one way.
[00:17:12]  And the other is living for yourself, which is very easy.
[00:17:15]  I mean, even from after cricket, I never had to work after that.
[00:17:18]  I could easily live a very comfortable life.
[00:17:20]  So it was a conscious decision some 30 years ago.
[00:17:23]  You're very passionate about who you think ordered this and executed it.
[00:17:28]  But who do you trust in Pakistan to properly impartially investigate this?
[00:17:37]  Well, let me tell you, the institution of the army, people are extremely upset what has happened.
[00:17:45]  So it's not as if the whole institution is involved.
[00:17:48]  You know, this, I believe that this intelligence officer, I know there are two accomplice.
[00:17:54]  And remember, the intelligence services are under the prime minister.
[00:17:58]  So there's the prime minister and the interior minister.
[00:18:01]  So the only hope I have is that if the chief justice of Pakistan, if he asserts himself, if he takes, if he now has this inquiry conducted through the Supreme Court, you know, gets the people involved of repute.
[00:18:18]  Already there's a case.
[00:18:20]  There was the best investigative journalist in Pakistan, Ashad Sharif.
[00:18:25]  He was my, you know, he was talking about this regime change and he was always backing my point of view.
[00:18:32]  He was the number one journalist.
[00:18:34]  He was hounded out of Pakistan.
[00:18:36]  The same intelligence officers were involved.
[00:18:39]  He was threatened.
[00:18:40]  He left Pakistan for Dubai.
[00:18:41]  He went to Kenya.
[00:18:43]  He was assassinated in Kenya.

=== Free Speech After Rushdie (03:01) ===

[00:18:45]  And as for the shooters, one of them we know was arrested.
[00:18:49]  The second one that you claim was shooting has not been arrested.
[00:18:52]  What do you think happened to that second shooter?
[00:18:57]  I think the second shooter is at large.
[00:19:00]  You know, it's not just me.
[00:19:01]  I mean, these bullets, because this shooter was on our left, the bullets that were going over my head and others, and in fact, there were eyewitnesses who saw him firing from a building.
[00:19:13]  So we have no idea.
[00:19:15]  And the police hasn't registered a case against the other one.
[00:19:19]  They've only blamed this.
[00:19:20]  So because this shooter fits in with the narrative that it was a religious fanatic.
[00:19:26]  By the way, he's not a religious fanatic because the social media guys went to his home and discovered this guy didn't even pray.
[00:19:34]  But he was a very professional shooter.
[00:19:37]  You know, he shot with this automatic.
[00:19:40]  I have done pistol shooting and if you shoot it on automatic, it's very difficult unless you're used to it to control it because it goes up.
[00:19:50]  But he had complete control.
[00:19:51]  So he was a trained guy.
[00:19:53]  And the other one, we're 100% sure that he was the one who was the rail, who would have been the...
[00:20:04]  If he missed me, he would have got me.
[00:20:08]  Remarkable stuff from Imran Khan.
[00:20:10]  And part two will be after the break.
[00:20:12]  Also, later on in the program, KISS Frontman Gene Simmons will be here to talk about the US midterm elections and whether it's time for the Republicans to dump Trump.
[00:20:22]  We're coming next more from my exclusive interview with Imran Khan, who just survived an assassination attempt.
[00:20:27]  We talk about Rishi Sunak and whether the UK is a racist country.
[00:20:43]  Well, welcome back.
[00:20:44]  In my second half of my exclusive interview with Imran Khan, we talk about British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and what the first Hindu-British PM says about modern Britain.
[00:20:53]  And a warning, there's some strong language here.
[00:20:56]  One of the other major issues right now is free speech.
[00:20:59]  We've got Elon Musk has bought Twitter and is determined, as he says, to bring back free speech.
[00:21:05]  We've also seen in August the author Salman Rushdie attacked on stage and nearly murdered, suffered horrific injuries.
[00:21:14]  Obviously, that is a controversial subject in Pakistan, Salman Rushdie and his book, Satanic Verses.
[00:21:21]  What is your reaction to what happened to Salman Rushdie?
[00:21:28]  I've already given my reaction, Piers.
[00:21:31]  As you quite rightly have pointed out, it is a, especially in our country, it's extremely controversial.
[00:21:40]  I mean, is it so controversial you don't want to say anything?

=== Political Pressure in Britain (15:50) ===

[00:21:46]  You know, I have enough issues right now to deal with rather than, you know, have other issues on my head.
[00:21:55]  I mean, I hear you, and I understand it, but there were a lot of people who obviously would have felt that free speech should mean free speech, that what happened to Salman Rushdie was a consequence of a fatwa being put on him and somebody then executing that fatwa.
[00:22:17]  Piers, look, you know, I've commented on that issue, and there was a big backlash because people don't understand this.
[00:22:26]  And I'm talking about where I'm sitting right now.
[00:22:29]  So where you are from, I understand your point of view, but where I am, you know, it is just going to cause, as it did before when I commented on it.
[00:22:40]  So let me just pass on this.
[00:22:43]  I mean, just as a final observation, you mean that it would put your life in even more danger should you continue to comment on it?
[00:22:52]  Look, I have enough challenges already.
[00:22:55]  I understand.
[00:22:57]  Let me ask you about the US midterm elections, which have just taken place.
[00:23:01]  Unusually, and well, I think surprisingly, the Democrats and Joe Biden didn't get the heavy losses that they were anticipating and that everybody else was anticipating.
[00:23:12]  What does that tell you about the state of American politics?
[00:23:14]  What is your view now of the Biden administration?
[00:23:17]  I know that you blame them for what happened to you earlier this year.
[00:23:21]  Do you hope to have a better relationship with them going forward?
[00:23:28]  Look, Peirce, you know, who would not want to have a good relationship with the United States?
[00:23:34]  It's a superpower.
[00:23:36]  And from Pakistan's point of view, we export our highest exports out to the US.
[00:23:43]  And the most powerful and the richest Pakistani expatriate community are the Pakistani American in the US.
[00:23:51]  So, you know, it's unthinkable that you would not want to have good relationship with the US.
[00:23:58]  There's only one issue I have.
[00:24:00]  You know, Pakistan and US relationship has been like a transactional master-slave relationship when Pakistan is needed.
[00:24:10]  You know, we serve a purpose and then we degrade ourselves.
[00:24:13]  By the way, I don't blame the US that much.
[00:24:16]  I think we allow ourselves to be used like a tissue paper.
[00:24:19]  And it's humiliating as a Pakistani that, you know, we got independence the same time as India.
[00:24:26]  India has a very dignified relationship with the US.
[00:24:31]  You know, every country wants to protect its interests.
[00:24:35]  India stands for its interests.
[00:24:37]  But what Pakistan has done is we've been like slaves.
[00:24:40]  We've been used, like for instance, the war on terror.
[00:24:43]  Pakistan had nothing to do with 9-11.
[00:24:47]  We were, the head of our state claimed that they were forced into this war by the US because the US would bomb us into Stone Age.
[00:24:56]  We ended up losing 80,000 Pakistanis in a war that had nothing to do with us.
[00:25:02]  So that's what I object to.
[00:25:03]  I want a relationship like India has with the US.
[00:25:07]  We have in the UK now the first prime minister who's come from an Asian background, Indian heritage, Rishi Sunak.
[00:25:16]  You spent a lot of time in the UK.
[00:25:18]  Were you surprised by that?
[00:25:20]  Were you pleasantly surprised that we finally gone for a non-white prime minister?
[00:25:29]  I am surprised because, you know, what I had, you know, and I remember I went there as an 18-year-old and then there were these skinheads around and they would beat up anyone Asian, they would beat them up and call them packies.
[00:25:42]  So I saw that the beginning and racism was very obvious at that time.
[00:25:48]  As a cricketer, as a young cricketer, I used to see, feel racism in county cricket.
[00:25:55]  But when I became faster and a fast bowler, then of course, if there was racism, it was behind my back, it wasn't on the cricket field.
[00:26:02]  But in the beginning, there would be racist comments right on your face.
[00:26:08]  But I saw the change take place.
[00:26:10]  But I must confess, I never thought that a day would come and Britain would be ready for an Indian origin prime minister.
[00:26:20]  And I think it's very positive.
[00:26:22]  You know, he's a massive cricket fan.
[00:26:23]  He goes and has nets at the oval.
[00:26:26]  And I said, are you a defensive batsman?
[00:26:28]  He went?
[00:26:28]  Absolutely not.
[00:26:29]  Front foot, very much in the Imran Khan category of batsman by the sound of it.
[00:26:35]  Are you comforted that we have a leader in this country who's a cricket fan?
[00:26:39]  I always think they're on a different level of human being, superior.
[00:26:46]  Look, it's Britain.
[00:26:48]  I mean, whoever becomes the prime minister right now, you know, he has to have the ability to take pressure because it's going through, I feel, probably one of the, I mean, ever since I've been in touch with Britain, 70s, there were these coal miner strikes and so on strikes.
[00:27:09]  But since then, I think this is probably the toughest time the country is going through.
[00:27:14]  So it's not going to be easy.
[00:27:16]  He needs to be, it'll be a baptism of fire for Rishi Surak.
[00:27:21]  Yeah.
[00:27:21]  Do you know?
[00:27:22]  Have you met him?
[00:27:25]  No, no, I've never met him.
[00:27:26]  Would you like to?
[00:27:30]  Yes, one day.
[00:27:33]  Yes, I would.
[00:27:35]  I want to end on a positive note, Imran.
[00:27:37]  It's been a riveting interview, as always, with you, but particularly given what happened to you.
[00:27:41]  The T20 World Cup, literally moments before I sat down for this interview, Pakistan had a fantastic win over New Zealand and have roared into the T20 final where they may end up playing England.
[00:27:59]  A repeat of 92 World Cup, because we beat New Zealand in the semi-finals and then we played England in the final.
[00:28:08]  Yes, it's a country celebrating right now.
[00:28:12]  It's, as you say, it's not been easy, probably not even in England, but it's not been easy here.
[00:28:19]  And this win has given all of us a great boost.
[00:28:22]  So we are all looking forward to the final.
[00:28:24]  And I think our team looks good.
[00:28:26]  I think we might just win the final.
[00:28:29]  Well, let's not be too hasty here, Imran.
[00:28:31]  I'm sorry.
[00:28:31]  But our boys are coming for you.
[00:28:33]  And just to remind you, we also recently won another World Cup.
[00:28:36]  So we've got a bit of trophy in the cabinet.
[00:28:38]  It's fantastic to see you.
[00:28:40]  I really, I started that way and I really mean it.
[00:28:43]  When I first heard about what had happened, you always fear the absolute worst and my heart sunk, particularly given the conversation we'd had just a few months ago.
[00:28:51]  So it's great to see you alive and well and recovering well.
[00:28:54]  And I wish you all the very best.
[00:28:56]  And thank you very much indeed for joining me.
[00:29:02]  Can't think of many people in the world that would give an interview quite that way, so relaxed, just five days after attempted assassination, where shooters ran towards him with guns blazing.
[00:29:16]  Quite a remarkable character, Imran Khan, on a cricket field and in the political arena.
[00:29:22]  Well still to come.
[00:29:23]  It's depicting the scandal hit royals in all their gory details.
[00:29:27]  Crude sensationalism.
[00:29:29]  Sharon Osborne will be here on whether the crown has gone too far.
[00:29:33]  Plus, the red wave turned into a bit of a red trickle.
[00:29:37]  Have the brakes been slammed on Trump's big comeback?
[00:29:40]  Kiss front man Gene Simmons on the prospect of Trump v. Biden or will it be DeSantis?
[00:29:48]  We'll talk about that after the break as well.
[00:29:50]  Plus we're talking about this complete and utter tool.
[00:29:54]  The man who put the cock into hang welcome back to Piers Morgan Sensor.
[00:30:10]  At the moment I'll be talking about the US midterm elections which had some very unexpected results which might mean bad news for Donald Trump.
[00:30:19]  And of course it raises the question of who will fight who in 2024.
[00:30:22]  But first let's get some reaction to that extraordinary interview with Imran Khan.
[00:30:26]  Joining me now, editor-at-large of the US Financial Times, Gillian Tech, KISS Frontman Gene Simmons, Fox Nation host Tommy Lehran and talk-toview presenter Sharon Osborne, probably the greatest ensembler I've had in Piers PAC history.
[00:30:38]  I think I'll put that on the record.
[00:30:40]  So welcome to you all.
[00:30:41]  Gillian, I know you were watching that Imran Khan interview with fascination.
[00:30:46]  It was an extraordinary interview to be doing just a few days after Imran was nearly assassinated.
[00:30:51]  What did you make of it?
[00:30:55]  Well, I thought, first of all, to make the obvious point, it was very moving.
[00:30:59]  It's very refreshing to see a leader who is so driven by a sense of higher purpose.
[00:31:05]  And his points about the fact that, you know, we never know when we're going to meet our creator.
[00:31:09]  It can happen any time.
[00:31:11]  You know, having justice survived an assassination attempt is indeed very, very moving.
[00:31:16]  For my money, though, one of the most interesting points he made was the relationship between Pakistan and the US and his point that, you know, he considers that India has a much more grown-up, mature relationship with the U.S. and Pakistan.
[00:31:30]  Now, you can argue whether that's true or not, but the reality is it underscores that Pakistan has tremendously important geopolitical significance right now.
[00:31:40]  And one thing that the Pakistani government really needs to be thinking about is how it can or cannot project that position effectively on the world stage.
[00:31:49]  Yeah, I completely agree.
[00:31:51]  Turning to the midterms.
[00:31:52]  Tommy Lehran, if I'd interviewed you yesterday, you would have been bursting with positivity.
[00:31:57]  The red wave is coming.
[00:31:58]  It's going to be a tsunami.
[00:32:00]  But it turned out to be a bit of a damp squib trickle.
[00:32:04]  What happened?
[00:32:07]  Hey, listen.
[00:32:08]  Yes, we did expect there to be a bigger red wave than what we're seeing, but you know, it's not over till it's over.
[00:32:14]  We're hoping to get majorities.
[00:32:16]  It's still in play.
[00:32:16]  We're going to take the gavel away from Nancy Pelosi.
[00:32:19]  We still have a chance to win a majority in the Senate, so it's not over until it's over.
[00:32:23]  I will say this, though.
[00:32:24]  The only race that really, really shocked me was Pennsylvania.
[00:32:28]  The fact that Pennsylvanians chose John Fetterman, a man that whether you want to discuss his stroke or not, or you feel like that's off the table, the man cannot articulate himself.
[00:32:37]  And that is one of the key rules in being a senator that you have to articulate yourself.
[00:32:41]  So that happening in Pennsylvania shocked me.
[00:32:44]  I am befuddled by it.
[00:32:45]  But everything else, I think I'm still very ecstatic.
[00:32:48]  Take a look at Florida.
[00:32:50]  Take a look at who I hope will be our next presidential nominee, Ron DeSantis, and how well he did with Republicans, with Independents, with Hispanics.
[00:32:58]  Miami-Dade, a county that we never thought would really go red, went red.
[00:33:03]  And that is because of Ron DeSantis and the way that he managed Florida.
[00:33:06]  So I am still very excited.
[00:33:08]  I'm very energized.
[00:33:09]  And we are looking forward to some unfinished business being finished in 2024.
[00:33:13]  Well, I've just written a column for the New York Post actually saying exactly that, but I've also concluded it's time for the GOP to dump Trump.
[00:33:20]  So Tommy, are you dumping Trump as we speak?
[00:33:26]  Trump is always going to be important to our party.
[00:33:28]  His endorsement is still important to our party.
[00:33:31]  I know that some of his endorsements didn't shake out the way they should have.
[00:33:34]  Quite frankly, we had some candidates like Dr. Oz that weren't the best candidates we could have put forward.
[00:33:38]  So we have to be honest about that.
[00:33:40]  Now, we're not going to dump Trump, but I think if we're smart and we really want to win, because our country depends on it, we go in the Ron DeSantis direction.
[00:33:47]  I am a little bit upset that Donald Trump has made the race more about himself than about America first.
[00:33:53]  It has to be America first.
[00:33:54]  It has to be policy first.
[00:33:55]  Ron DeSantis does that.
[00:33:57]  He is my choice.
[00:33:58]  He is my pick.
[00:33:59]  I hope that Donald Trump steps back, stands out of the way, and lets Ron DeSantis take the throne.
[00:34:04]  Okay, Gene Simmons, you're a kind of, well, I guess you are a Republican.
[00:34:10]  Would you identify still as a Republican?
[00:34:14]  No, I would not.
[00:34:15]  I have a like tens of millions of Americans are sick and tired of the far left as well as the far right.
[00:34:23]  And I don't like how either party is behaving.
[00:34:26]  And I wish for the good old days where you can politely disagree and sit down and hammer stuff out.
[00:34:32]  It bears noting that the currency, whether it's the paper currency or the coins, have two completely different sides, and yet they're still part of the same coin.
[00:34:45]  It's time for everybody to wake up and smell the coffee.
[00:34:50]  The way people are behaving with each other is childlike, and the deniers and the far left way too progressive.
[00:34:59]  Look, one second, you wake up in Wisconsin, and I love Middle America because my life was made by people who sometimes disagree with my point of view.
[00:35:09]  I love them.
[00:35:10]  I understand them.
[00:35:11]  One second you grow up in a nuclear family.
[00:35:14]  The next second you're being told you can't bake a cake for somebody who has a different sexual orientation or a different on religious grounds.
[00:35:23]  Then it goes all the way up to the Supreme Court.
[00:35:26]  It's a crazy, crazy time.
[00:35:29]  And as your comment, I don't want to jump subjects, but regarding Mr. Trump, we both know him to some extent.
[00:35:37]  I would never rule the gentleman out.
[00:35:39]  I think he's a street fighter and he will go.
[00:35:42]  And if Mr. DeSantis, who I think has a decent shot at grabbing some headlines and making an impact, decides to go, you're going to see Mr. Trump go after him.
[00:35:51]  And he's already done.
[00:35:53]  You know what, Gene?
[00:35:54]  You and I. You know what, Gene?
[00:35:55]  You and I were on Celebrity Apprentice, the first season of it in America.
[00:35:59]  I don't want to remind you that I won.
[00:36:01]  Actually, I probably won only because you quit after a few years.
[00:36:04]  Well, I'd like to respectfully remind you, I had to, I won immediately within five minutes of I became the captain of the, yeah, and I had to then find out that I had to go to Australia on a tour.
[00:36:19]  And then between you and I, I had to politely and somehow very fast get myself fired off.
[00:36:25]  Do you really believe I was fired that quickly?
[00:36:28]  No, I actually know that you had to leave and I was very pleased to see the back of you because I saw you as my main threat.
[00:36:34]  However, here's my question to you.
[00:36:37]  Knowing Trump as we do, if he had himself in that boardroom following last night, I think he'd fire himself.
[00:36:46]  And I think that's the point the Republican Party have reached.
[00:36:49]  Well, they're going to work out where they want to go.
[00:36:52]  You know, can they go with Trump?
[00:36:55]  You know, Biden is saying he may run again.
[00:36:57]  He'll be in his 80s when he runs again.
[00:36:59]  Or should they just cut their losses for go with DeSantis, who is nearly half his age, full of young, youthful energy.
[00:37:07]  He seems much calmer, more focused.
[00:37:09]  You know, I just think to me it seems a sensible play for the Republicans.
[00:37:14]  If I was an avowed Republican, and I am not, I would go with Mr. Trump because I know exactly what he's going to do.
[00:37:22]  He's going to, if Mr. Biden is running, he's going to play dirty, and perhaps he should, and show footage for TV ads showing Mr. Biden falling downstairs repeatedly and stammering over words and stuff like that.

=== Trump vs Biden Strategy (04:26) ===

[00:37:36]  It's not even about the issues.
[00:37:38]  He's going to win points just to show that the gentleman who's currently the president may be too old to serve and he's going to win on that level.
[00:37:47]  Do I think Mr. Biden is going to lose to Mr. Trump if they're on head to head?
[00:37:50]  Yes, I do.
[00:37:51]  I may not agree with the point of view and this is not about how I feel because remember there are curtains that prevent anybody from finding out what your business is.
[00:38:01]  It's your own private business who you vote for.
[00:38:04]  But my assessment is that Mr. Trump can't handily beat Mr. Biden in an election because Mr. Biden is going to be respectable.
[00:38:12]  My guess is that neither Trump nor Trump is not.
[00:38:15]  Well my guess is neither Trump nor Biden will actually run in 2024.
[00:38:18]  We'll see.
[00:38:19]  Sharon, as my residential political expert on this panel, I want to focus not on American politics, but on UK politics and Matt Hancock, our dearly beloved recent health secretary, who is now munching kangaroo testicles in a reality television program in Australia.
[00:38:38]  We have a clip of him already down and dirty.
[00:38:40]  Let's have a look.
[00:38:48]  Does it load a slurry?
[00:38:49]  Just pulled on the head.
[00:38:50]  Wait, are you still carrying on?
[00:38:51]  Yeah, wait for me.
[00:38:53]  Okay, come down the tunnel.
[00:38:54]  One minute gone.
[00:38:55]  So here there's a left turn or straight on.
[00:38:57]  Which way do you want me to go?
[00:38:58]  Which way do I want you to go?
[00:39:00]  I don't mind.
[00:39:00]  I'm not a sat there.
[00:39:01]  I don't know.
[00:39:04]  Sharon, is he the man who's put the cock into Hancock?
[00:39:09]  Oh, definitely.
[00:39:11]  Definitely, but a little one.
[00:39:15]  I mean, it is completely ridiculous, isn't it?
[00:39:17]  That we have a guy who is a senior cabinet minister in a pandemic who caused potentially thousands of lives with his woeful handling of the pandemic, certainly in the first phase.
[00:39:27]  And now he's raking it in in nearly half a million pounds to go and do this in a jungle in Australia rather than serve his constituents.
[00:39:38]  Well, I mean, the guy obviously is desperate to be a celebrity and he's going for it, isn't he?
[00:39:48]  It's, you know, nothing surprises me with anyone anymore, and especially in politics.
[00:39:55]  But, you know, he's very thirsty for celebrity, isn't he?
[00:40:00]  I think he is.
[00:40:01]  And maybe he's looked at what's happened in America and thinks that celebrity now can take you a long way in politics.
[00:40:07]  People like it.
[00:40:08]  And in fact, the worse you behave, the better.
[00:40:14]  With his little cock, I don't think so.
[00:40:17]  Gillian Ted, on a serious point here, what do you make from across the point pond, Gillian, looking over here at what Hancock is doing?
[00:40:27]  What do you make of it?
[00:40:30]  Well, these days, it's not really a beauty parade when it comes to which countries have rational, sensible governments.
[00:40:37]  It's more like an ugly parade.
[00:40:40]  And it does seem pretty shocking to have, you know, a former government minister on a reality TV show, were it not for the fact that so much of politics has been like a reality TV show, even without some kind of trip to a remote jungle.
[00:40:54]  So I think people on this side of the Atlantic are just rolling their eyes and going, yes, yet another sign of just how weird British politics have become.
[00:41:03]  And of course, they're now contemplating the ultimate political reality TV star, Donald Trump, potentially making a comeback.
[00:41:11]  So the wheel will come potentially full circle.
[00:41:13]  Yes, I mean, I strongly agree.
[00:41:16]  Yeah, I strongly agree with what you said in terms of the dump Trump point.
[00:41:20]  I think the clear message from the midterm results we've had so far, we've not had all of them yet, some really crucial results yet to come, but the clearer message from the results is that DeSantis achieved a storming victory in Florida, really very, very dramatic.
[00:41:36]  And Trump's candidates, for the most part, did not perform particularly well.
[00:41:42]  What happened to Dr. Oz was very revealing, because remember, Dr. Oz basically managed to knock out another very, very competent candidate as Republican nominee before, Dave McCormack.
[00:41:54]  They essentially lost because of the Trump support for Dr. Oz.
[00:41:58]  And that could cost them.
[00:41:59]  And I imagine there's going to be a lot of people saying today.
[00:42:02]  Yeah, could cost them.

=== Fiction Blurs With Reality (04:50) ===

[00:42:03]  Exactly.
[00:42:03]  I've got to take a short break.
[00:42:06]  Take a short break.
[00:42:06]  I want to come back and talk quickly about the Crown, which drops tonight.
[00:42:10]  Is it a force for dramatic good?
[00:42:12]  Or is it a disgusting assault on the royal family?
[00:42:15]  We'll discuss that in a moment.
[00:42:27]  Well, season five of the Crown drops today and the flagship Netflix series hasn't pulled any punches, accused of crude sensationalism by David Judy Dench, described as malicious nonsense by former British Prime Minister Sir John Major, who's portrayed by Johnny Lee Miller in the show.
[00:42:39]  And coming so soon after the death of the late Queen, many think this series has gone too far and is coming out too soon.
[00:42:47]  In light of the events of the last 12 months, perhaps I have more to reflect on than most.
[00:42:58]  Have royal standards damaged the country's reputation?
[00:43:03]  I won't go quietly.
[00:43:05]  Our battle till the end.
[00:43:08]  How did it come to this?
[00:43:16]  We're joined by my super PAC, as I'm now calling them, Sharon Osborne.
[00:43:19]  I've got to be honest, I know it may be wrong, but I can't wait to watch this.
[00:43:23]  I'm going to get back home tonight, pour a glass of wine, and get stuck in.
[00:43:30]  Yeah, I will too.
[00:43:32]  But at the same time, I think that people have to remember that this is TV and it's about ratings.
[00:43:39]  And I don't think it will be respectful.
[00:43:42]  I don't think, you know, they will obviously rewrite history.
[00:43:46]  And it's just about ratings.
[00:43:49]  It's meant to shock.
[00:43:51]  It's meant to be disrespectful, I think, just to get the audience to watch.
[00:43:56]  Yeah, and Gene Simmons, I mean, you would have had a lot of stuff written and said about you over the years as a big rock star.
[00:44:02]  When it comes to dramatization, should there be any rules, really?
[00:44:06]  Does it matter?
[00:44:09]  Ultimately, and invariably in other big words like gymnasium, no.
[00:44:14]  Look, I'm delusional.
[00:44:15]  I think I'm kind of a big deal.
[00:44:17]  So when I come home, I'm used to the wifey going, oh, it's, you know, they'll stop the world.
[00:44:21]  Here he is.
[00:44:22]  And my daughter, Sophie.
[00:44:23]  But if they're watching The Crown or anything to do with royals, all I get is, shh, shh.
[00:44:30]  For heaven's sakes, put it on pause.
[00:44:32]  You can rewind it, watch it later.
[00:44:34]  So, you know, I got to sit there like, you know, and watch it, even though they can rewind it and see, I'm home.
[00:44:40]  I'm here.
[00:44:41]  I'm kind of a big deal.
[00:44:44]  Tommy Lehron, are you as enthralled by every juicy bone that we gnaw on with this royal family?
[00:44:50]  Or could you not care less?
[00:44:54]  Hey, listen, I think that people love drama.
[00:44:57]  I think that people are so used to watching reality television that they need their scripted television to match just how dramatic their reality television is.
[00:45:05]  And I don't think that there are any rules anymore.
[00:45:07]  And quite frankly, I don't think that there should be.
[00:45:09]  We should be adult enough to know what actually happened, what actually happened in history, and separate fact from fiction.
[00:45:16]  It's not people that make television or make movies' job to educate us on what is true and what is not.
[00:45:21]  We should be able to do that for ourselves.
[00:45:23]  We are adults.
[00:45:24]  I think they should have fun with it.
[00:45:26]  It is about ratings.
[00:45:27]  But then again, isn't that what television is about?
[00:45:29]  Isn't that what streaming is about?
[00:45:31]  Make it more dramatic.
[00:45:32]  Do what you got to do to get the eyeballs.
[00:45:33]  I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
[00:45:35]  Gillian Tech, I mean, there is a body of thought that this is too soon after the Queen's death.
[00:45:40]  It's insensitive.
[00:45:41]  A lot of the people are still alive.
[00:45:43]  But of course, you could also point out that Prince Harry will doubtless be outraged and yet he himself has done a massive deal with Netflix to spill his own beans.
[00:45:51]  What's the difference?
[00:45:53]  Yeah, there's plenty of stuff coming out already about the royal family.
[00:45:58]  So I think it's a bit ridiculous to say that you couldn't be able to make this kind of film, this kind of fictionalized series.
[00:46:05]  The problem I have with this is really about the labelling.
[00:46:08]  And they should come with a very big sign saying it is fiction, slapped all over it in big letters at the top.
[00:46:15]  You know, if they were making a documentary and attempting to do a proper piece of history, that would be one thing, but this is fiction.
[00:46:21]  And we live in an age where, unfortunately, people have problems distinguishing fiction from non-fiction and where inevitably, given how recent these events are, and given the fact they are basically using real-life characters all over the place, people will think this is actually documentary.
[00:46:39]  And so it's really about the labeling that I think the real question and debate should be right now.
[00:46:43]  Yeah, well, I think we should carry a label on this show, especially with this super PAC, that we are very much uncensored on this show, and you have all been magnificently uncensored.

=== The Labeling Problem (00:14) ===

[00:46:53]  Thank you so much for joining me.
[00:46:55]  Gillian Tech, Gene Simmons, Tommy Lehran, Sharon Osborne.
[00:46:58]  What a pack.
[00:46:59]  What a pack.
[00:47:00]  Thank you very much indeed to all of you.
[00:47:02]  And remember, whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored.
[00:47:05]  That's all for tonight.
[00:47:06]  Good night.
[00:47:07]  Jordan Peterson tomorrow