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Aug. 29, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
45:55
20220829_piers-morgan-uncensored-nhs-on-the-brink
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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NHS Funding and Waiting Times 00:14:51
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored with me, Jeremy Carl.
Tonight, NHS, National Health Service, or Never Here Soon.
As horror stories about ambulance waiting times continue, we'll speak to those on the front line.
25 years have passed and even more conspiracies have been aired since the death of Princess Diana.
But it's the simple truth, my friends.
She was murdered by the press.
And we'll meet the woman who opened the doors to Ukrainian only to watch the refugee walk out of them 10 days later with the father of her kids.
She joins me live.
Good evening, my friends.
Now you weren't seriously expecting to see Piers Morgan here on a bank holiday Monday.
Were you out of your tiny minds?
As the old saying goes, when the cat's in Saint-Tropez, the mice will play.
So here we are, struggling through another week before the big guy, that's what it says here, returns next Monday.
We wrote this.
PM is back for the new PM on the 5th of September.
Listen, Morgan's absence aside, there aren't many signs of this being a bank holiday out there.
You know, granted, you might have noticed hardly anyone's at work today.
Maybe that the trains are running on a reduced schedule or that no post came through your letterbox this morning.
Nothing new you might say there, but there will be a fresh PM a week today.
And one thing the new incumbent will have to tackle seriously is the NHS.
Aging, chronically ill, with no real chance of further life expectancy.
These are just some of the things our health service has in common with many of its frequent flyers right now.
According today to Matthew Taylor, Chief Executive of the NHS Confederation, the new Prime Minister will inherit an NHS in its worst state in living memory.
Look at this.
There are currently 105,000 vacancies in the UK in the NHS.
Add to that a further 165,000 in the social care sector.
And if you are lucky enough to spot a doctor in the building, don't put the Sudoku book down yet because the number of people waiting in AE more than 12 hours has increased fivefold in the past year.
Now, if you do get admitted, which is fantastic, your care is then at risk due to the relentless underinvestment in aged crumbling buildings.
And of course, if that roof falls in whilst you're gazing in the mirror thinking, I look quite good in this hospital gown, you'll probably then be put on a waiting list of following up, following 6.5 million people, right?
You'll have to be in that queue.
That's 100 times more than were at Wembley for England, Italy last summer.
On top of it all, just to make you feel really happy on a bank holiday, doctors are talking about going on strike in the autumn.
At least if they are on a picket line, you might be able to see one in person on talk TV.
The fact remains, right, if I had a funny turn right now and this production team, lovely people, begrudgingly called an ambulance, there is a one in ten chance that Julia Hartley Brewer would be here stepping over my cold, gasping body on the way to do the breakfast show because it wouldn't have arrived in about 10 hours.
One lady, I really believe this, spoke for all of us, the whole of the nation last week, when she sort of ambushed the health secretary, Steve Barkley.
Watch this.
That plan for jobs has protected.
Are you going to do anything about the ambulances waiting and the people dying out?
Well, don't you think 12 years is long enough?
Yes, and we are.
12 years?
You've done bugger all about it.
People have died and all you've done is nothing.
Pretty clear-cut.
We're joined now by Mike Pageam, chair of the Independent Care Group, which runs five care homes in Scarborough.
With me first in the studio, GP Dr. Philippa Kaye.
Philippa, welcome back.
We talked off air.
People will tune into discussions about the NHS.
They will hear stories about we need more investment, we need this, we need that.
You're on the front line.
Just don't dress this up.
How bad is it?
I think that everybody sees when they see pictures in the media of relatives putting up shelters over their loved ones whilst they're waiting for ambulances and nurses coming out in AE saying you're going to be here even when my shift is finished to know how serious it is.
It is extraordinarily difficult right now heading into winter with COVID and when we look at Australia for example, Australia have had a really difficult flu season this year, the worst flu season for ages.
We tend to follow them.
So we know that we're heading into winter plus you have to add in the cost of living crisis and how that impacts health, which then impacts the NHS.
This is incredibly serious.
We have to balance that though with the fact that the NHS is open.
AE is open for accidents and emergencies.
Go on, do your bit.
I love this.
Go on.
If you've had a cough or a cold...
Don't go to the hospital.
It's not the best place to go.
We need to be using the NHS appropriately.
So that is using your pharmacist, using 111, using walk-in centres, using your GPs, and AE for accident and emergency.
Okay, the thing is, I get, I absolutely get that.
And the morale on the front line must be dreadful.
And I fully understand that the last thing you want to do is sit here and say, it's that da because you want people to know.
But what we need is an honest appraisal.
When you read, as you said, of 12 hours waiting to see an AE doctor, waiting 16 hours for an ambulance, when you say try 111, which I had an experience of several months ago and it was appalling, the bloke was quite patently reading off a Q sheet.
I've said that before.
We waited eight hours for an ambulance.
What hope can you give people without dissecting?
We know the people that work in the NHS are fantastic.
They care.
But for British people watching this all over the United Kingdom tonight, really, really worried about money and the cost of living, if they get ill, they can't get through to get a GP.
They struggle to get to hospital in an ambulance and when they get there, they're left.
Why have we got to this in your mind?
Why is it so bad?
Is it money or not?
And it's a combination of things.
I think it's long, long, long-term lack of investment, plus a pandemic, plus two years of everybody not having any...
There's no, no one's got their batteries charged anymore.
There's no more goodwill anymore.
People can't wait anymore.
And all of that is coming together to sort of, it's like shaking the Coke bottle and then everything explodes.
Where did the NHS get wrong?
You know, when people say to me, we need more money, more money, more money, what would be a justifiable criticism of the way the NHS, a lot of people would say this, don't spend the money on the things that are needed, which are doctors and nurses and ambulances and hospital beds.
They spend it on computers and brainstorming sessions and diversity people.
They do.
That's a fact.
How do we change that?
I think that it's not that we need to change lots of different things at the same time.
And there isn't necessarily the budget to do that.
And so what happens is that you paper the cracks and that doesn't necessarily solve the problem in the long term.
But what I would say to the people who are watching, scared about what's going to happen this winter, is first of all, what can you do?
And what you can do is get your COVID booster when it comes in.
Get your flu vaccine.
If you live in London, make sure your kids got their polio vaccine.
You know, there are things that you can do.
Attend your screening because prevention is better than cure.
And when people say, oh, you know, well, the cost of living, what should I do with regards to should I have my prescription medication?
And these are choices that people are making, that if their prescriptions aren't free, that there are still people who cannot necessarily afford to have that medication.
So how bad's that in 2022?
People having to make that decision to eat or heat your home or get a prescription because they haven't got the money.
And even last winter, I was sitting on the phone in my surgery telling people about the local food banks telling people to go to the library after school because essentially that was almost like a heating bank that your kids could do their homework and somewhere where it was light and it was warm.
And that was last winter.
And poverty is associated with poor physical and poor mental health outcomes, which then cost the NHS more.
And so we need to look at things very globally, not just solely within health.
I really agree with you.
We're joined there by Mike Page.
I'm chair of the Independent Care Group, as I said, which runs five care homes across Scarborough.
Mike, welcome to the show.
I have a sort of vested interest in this subject.
My father was in a care home for months before he died, actually when Covid finished and he came out.
And I will start by saying I think that the social care issue is as big an issue as the NHS and certainly in terms of the elderly this winter, real fear.
Tell us the reality on the ground in care homes as we approach, in the NHS's words, dreadful times, but for care homes, dire as well, right?
Yes, I mean the pandemic has been dreadful for us.
As you mentioned, the vacancies in the NHS, we've got 165,000 vacancies in social care and that's growing.
And we need to recruit more people in so we can actually help the health service because if we're not careful, we're going to find care homes closing and losing beds, and also people who look after care people in their own homes also going out of business.
So it's a real crisis.
In the 33 years I've been involved, it's worst I've ever known.
And we want this government and the next Prime Minister to get a grip on social care to solve the problems once and for all.
What are the answers?
We know that the winter is coming.
We know the energy bills have what gone from 1,270 quid in January to potentially 5,000 next January with, I mean, families left, right, and centre who will literally be having to make the choices you talked about.
Do we get rid of this?
Do we not do that?
Horrible, horrible choices.
For the elderly, people who have worked all their life, paid their stamp, as my old man used to say.
What's the future like for them in care?
Well, it's very difficult for you, sure.
I think the problem is, as a country, we never fix a social care problem when we were better off.
Now we've got a crisis.
It's a very difficult time to sort it.
What I would say is more of the money has to be put into social care so people can be discharged out of hospital into their own homes or into care homes to free up the beds for those waiting for treatment.
That's the way we should be doing it.
The problem is, of course, people want tax cuts now.
That is not the right way to go forward.
We need to be spending more on social care and we need to pay staff in social care a decent wage, at least on a par with the NHS.
Is that not, both of you, just appalling?
What you just said, we need to get more people out of hospitals, right, out of the beds to free them up.
They sent enough old people back home to care homes during COVID, didn't they, Philip?
But without so much as a backward glance.
And you also have to remember the number of people who are looked after by informal carers.
This country Is run by volunteers, essentially.
The number of people who wait for their loved one to come after work, to drive 20 miles, to give them a cooked meal, and now they can't afford the petrol to get there.
And all of that is going to have a real impact.
Mike, do we need to be paying the care industry workers?
You talked about 165,000 vacancies.
And one thing that I got to know massively during my dad's time in the care home was a lot of people from other countries working for not particularly good monies.
And then we get back to the whole debate.
Do we need to be offering more?
Is it the standard of living?
You know, I get riled up, and people will disagree, but I get riled up when I hear a train driver on £59,000 wants a pay rise because he hasn't had one for three years or her, and yet care workers are probably on 12 or 14 grand a year in the most awful circumstances and are basically saving people's lives.
We get it wrong in this country, don't we?
Yes, I think it's a big debate.
We need to look at how we value social care and health, really.
I don't really want to comment on what the train drivers might earned, except to say social care staff deserve more.
That means we've got to pay them more, which means funding local authorities more at a time when the country has run out of money.
But I think social care has never been a priority through all the political parties.
Now is the time to do something about it.
But we're in this hiatus, aren't we?
Between one government coming and a new PM coming in next week is we want them to be bold.
I personally want to see the NHS and social care merge to one and a national pay rate for care staff around about £15 an hour mark as a minimum.
We could do that, we could solve the problem quite quickly, but we seem to do a lot of talking and very little action.
And that's the point that I said to you, Philippa, at the beginning.
We seem to have heard about the problems with the NHS and latterly the social care, but we should have been talking.
Mike's absolutely right, we should have been talking about social care years and years ago.
We can talk about the pandemic.
We can talk about, you know, the Ukrainian war and the cost of fuel.
But this winter is terrifying for many, many people, old people and people across the United Kingdom.
What is the next Prime Minister?
We're not allowed to say it'll be Liz Trust because obviously there hasn't been an election yet.
That's what all the polls say.
It could be Rishi Sunak.
Whoever it is, has got a big job on us.
What do they need to do to cure, in your mind, brief the NHS problems and the social care problems?
Is it just money or is it more?
I think they need to look at the short term and the long term together.
So we need a short-term fix for recruitment right now in order to fill those vacancies.
But we also need to be looking at university training more doctors, training more nurses.
And I think that that's true across each area within the NHS and social care.
What can we do now?
But what plans can you be putting into place in order to ensure this thing which is essential to the health, literally, of this country?
Mike, to finish with you, I think Philippa's absolutely spot on.
What amazes me, and you talked about a new government, you know, next week.
There seems to be such little foresight in government.
Everybody says, well, we knew this was coming.
Nobody seems to have had a plan.
We never seem to think beyond the end of whenever.
In your mind, 30 seconds, what does the new Prime Minister have to do?
They've got to put social care close to the top of the list.
They've got to fund it properly and it can be done quickly if in my view they listen to the experts already in the sector.
Be bold, as Niet Bevin was in 1948 when he set the health service up.
Be bold, get health and social care together, fund it properly.
We don't need tax cuts.
I know people need help with the cost of living, but funding it as social care is absolutely important because people deserve a better quality of life as they get older.
Mike Padgem, thank you very much indeed, Dr. Philippa Kaye as well.
The point is we're in a situation in this country where everybody is looking at where the next pound comes from.
And of course, we want better education, we want better hospitals, we want better doctors, we want better dentists, we want cheaper petrol, we want so much and it seems that this is perfect storm.
It's all come at once.
Diana's Death and Press Responsibility 00:13:54
We will keep, I promise you, talking about this on uncensored.
We're coming back next Wednesday, of course, marks 25 years since the death of Princess Diana.
Now, throughout her life, via an omission, she used the media and they used her.
But the big question as we go towards Wendy is, was the press responsible for her death?
What are your thoughts?
We're coming back in three.
Welcome back to Uncensored.
Now, throughout this week, we'll look back at Princess Diana, her widespread legacy, and consider what she would make of today's royal family.
Tonight, though, I want to start by examining the role of the press in her life and ultimately in her death.
Her brother Earl Spencer was pretty clear of their responsibility for that fateful car crash back in 1997.
It would appear that every proprietor and editor of every publication that has paid for intrusive and exploitative photographs of her, encouraging greedy and ruthless individuals to risk everything in pursuit of Diana's image, has blood on his hands today.
I'm now joined by former Royal Editor of the Son Duncan Larkham, former spokesman for the Fired family Michael Cole and Jez's Journos, TV presenter, talking to you presenter Mike Graham and political journalist Ava Santina.
I'm going to start with you Duncan.
Everybody knows my belief in the royal family and the fact that my father worked for a long, long time for the Queen Mother.
Earl Spencer there saying that every royal editor, every editor of every tabloid newspaper, every newspaper has blood on their hands.
Tell me what you made of the whole Diana, or the tragedy of Diana.
Actually, for me, it was my first week as a journalist and it was my first time out of the office on the local paper going to do a vox pop on the people that had been to Kensington Palace and I was told in no uncertain terms that I'd managed to murder Diana in my first five days of my new career.
But honestly, I mean I think the press contributed.
Lots of things contributed.
I spent six months sitting through the inquest at the High Court and what was quite clear is that it was a series of absolutely tragic things that combined.
Why was there no crash barrier on the pillars?
Why did Diana's...
Why was Diana in the hands of our fired security team that were chasing most photographed women in the world, escaping being pictured when she'd already been pictured with Dodie?
So you can blame the press, the public have, and we've felt that the death of Diana changed the press.
I don't doubt that for that.
But whether or not the press got blood on their hands, I think a lot of people have got blood on their hands, frankly.
Michael Cole, if I can bring you in, former BBC Royal correspondent and spokesman for the Fired family, take up Duncan's point there.
Were the people not looking after her, whether that was fired security and her own, were they not responsible?
Should they not have done more for her instead of putting her in that position?
I think the inescapable fact is that none of this would have happened.
This terrible tragedy wouldn't have happened nearly 25 years ago had they not been pursued throughout the day from the moment they arrived in Paris until the moment of the crash in the tunnel.
And even at that moment, there were photographers there taking photographs of her in her agony with internal injuries that she was not going to survive.
And one of them, a Frenchman called Romond Ratt, put his hands on her and said, help is coming.
With his other hand, he was taking pictures.
And those pictures were sent to publications in this country.
And no respectable publication around the world would touch them.
And I happen to know that British newspapers, British editors, were extremely relieved that there were no British photographers there because Whoever, whatever caused this at the end of the day, they were responsible in the sense that they had, as her brother Charles said in his eulogy, Diana, the huntress in classical mythology, became Diana the Hunted.
And she was hunted to her death.
That wouldn't have happened if they'd been allowed to go about their lawful business.
They couldn't even go out to dinner.
John was stopped.
Johnny said, Can I jump in?
I was actually working in Fleet Street at the time, and Michael Cole remarkably forgets to blame Mohamed Al-Fayed, who employed a pilled, popped-up chauffeur who'd been drinking, taking drugs which were affecting his ability to see properly.
He was driving a Mercedes car, which had been in a previous accident, had been chopped up and put back together again.
So Mohammed Al-Fayed, you might argue, has blood on his hands for hiring such a guy.
Also, Martin Bashir may have blood on his hands, because if it wasn't for him, she would not have got rid of the royal security that would have protected her.
And it's nonsense to say that she was hunted because that was her life and she had been protected by the royal family for a very, very long time.
She decided not to be protected by them.
It's quite interesting, Avram, if I can bring you in.
I said in the introduction, and again I go back to my old man.
He always said to me that the royal family changed after the Queen Mother died.
The mystique went because they all, at times, apart from the Queen, systematically have used the press to their own advantage.
That is not a reason to say there is no responsibility.
I think it's easy to say the press were responsible in their entirety.
What's your view?
I hate hearing that.
I think, you know, if you take away the cameras, it was pretty much, you know, a lot of old men chasing her for the majority of her life since she was about 19.
You know, to your point, Duncan, your first week working in press, you were working on this.
I was actually at Grenfell.
That was my first day.
And, you know, my editor wanted stories and I could have really antagonised those people outside.
I didn't approach anyone.
I still delivered the story.
I would have never, ever attacked anyone the way that I think Diana was.
She was never attacked, though.
Diana knew what the game was.
No, she was not.
I worked during those years.
I know all of the people that were royal correspondents during that time.
She was not in any way attacked.
She used to get in touch with people.
You might remember the famous picture of her sitting on the end of the yacht.
That didn't get taken by accident.
It got taken because she told them where she was going to be, when she was going to be there.
She was very happy because it was antagonizing Charles who was her ex-husband.
They were all no, but British journalists were always at a safe distance.
They did both.
He used the press as well, Charles.
They always used the press against the children.
British journalists were always at a safe distance.
And the trouble is that if you are in the public eye, you need to be protected.
Diana was not protected.
And Michael Cole's ex-employer is responsible for that.
Michael, let's bring you back in.
Strong words from Mike Graham.
What's your response?
Terrible excuses and sophistication that isn't called for at this particular time.
I revert to what a jury of 11 ordinary Londoners decided.
They decided, yes, it was not an accident.
It was unlawful killing caused by the driving of Henri Paul but the man that you absolutely represented and still defend.
And you haven't answered what we both, well, everybody's asked you.
Does Mohammed Al-Fire, because he provided the people that were looking after Diana on that, does he not share some responsibility as well?
He lost his son and he lost a very dear friend.
And he spent 10 years trying to find out the truth of it all.
Henri Paul, I knew Henri Paul.
He drove me around in Paris.
He had been on two courses with Mercedes-Benz.
He had passed a medical for his private pilot's license the day before.
He drank two glasses of cream oil.
Can I just ask a question there?
So you're saying that the fact that when Diana got rid of her bodyguards, met police officers in 1995, met police officers do not chase and play cat and mouse and run away from the press because that is not their job.
Their job is her safety.
She got rid of them.
On the night she died, as tragic though it is, she died because she was in the care of people that did not properly look after her.
Now, I agree.
And I will accept as someone that used to work as Royal Editor of The Sun that the media did create an environment, as did the public, that meant those pictures were worth a fortune.
That's why the guys were chasing.
I'm not saying that's right or wrong.
But do you accept at all that she should have been better protected on that night?
I mean, okay, the press, we were partly responsible.
Was Mohammed al-Fayed's staff?
No, he wasn't responsible because what happened would not have happened had they not been pursued and harassed throughout the whole day they were there.
Everywhere.
Where do you know?
She went.
Everywhere.
And you know, Duncan, because you were the Royal Editor of The Sun, that the reason that Diana dispensed with her Scotland Yard detectives was that she believed, quite rightly, that they were reporting back on who she was seeing, where she was going, and how long the BBC was.
Martin Bashir told her that.
That's quite right.
Quite right that that was happening.
It was Martin Bashir who lied.
He was a proven liar.
Yeah, from the BBC.
Who forged documents, who worked for the same mob.
I mean, you've got a pretty bad record here, son.
You worked for the BBC, who faked documents for Diana, and then you worked for Mohamed Al-Fayed, who thought that Prince Philip had killed her.
I mean, what sort of world are you living in?
Ava?
Well, I don't know.
I'm not sure about Duncan's point, because what you're saying is that he should have protected Diana from the British press, or from the press in general.
I don't think your point actually makes sense.
You said he should have been better trained and a better driver to protect Diana from the press.
That's what you're saying.
No, I'm not.
Okay, I'll clarify what I'm actually saying.
What I'm actually saying is that having been a royal editor and been involved with covering the royals for years.
You know that they were acting as a daughter.
I know that the protection officers are not there to protect Diana or a royal from being photographed.
She was the most photographed woman in the world.
What they are there for is her safety.
So driving at high speed to try and get to the...
That would never have been allowed.
Can I go back to Michael College?
That would not have been allowed.
Michael, can I just...
I'm not trying to...
A dog with a bone here.
Duncan Larcombe has put his hands in the air and said that the British press in whatever guise were partly responsible.
Why do you refuse to accept, I don't understand this, I'd love you to explain to me.
Mohammed al-Fayed employed the people, the security, that looked after her.
There is absolute fact to be said that whether that's a driver who drove you around Paris or not or you knew, he and his driving and the security detail that were with her were employed by the man.
And I don't know if he still employs you because you always say that he's not responsible.
Surely he has to take an iota of responsibility as well.
None of that would have happened at all.
The security was quite adequate.
The man was qualified to drive the car.
He didn't drive at excessive speed.
He was driving at 60 miles an hour at night.
Can I ask you a question that might get me into trouble?
Are you still employed by Mohammed Al-Fayed?
Absolutely not.
And I haven't been for many, many years, but he's a friend of mine.
And I feel very sorry for him and his family.
I feel very sorry for William and Harry.
I feel very sorry for all sorts of people.
But I do think I think there's personally, look, Michael, we can all agree to disagree.
I think that if the press was sat here in the guise of Duncan Larcombe saying, you know what, we were nothing to do with it.
They've taken their share of responsibility.
And all the people, by the way, who bought those newspapers and wanted stuff on the royal family every single day could be looking at taking some form of responsibility.
I don't understand, and we have to finish now, but I don't understand how a man who provided the driver, you just said he didn't get drunk and didn't drive at high speed and said you were at the...
That the inquest found that he did.
I don't understand that, do you?
No, they've.
Well, the inquest did find out.
He was intoxicated.
Intoxicated.
The car was not fit for purpose.
It had been broken up and put back together in a way which was illegal.
And frankly speaking, he should never have been in that car with Prince Albert.
So if we get to the point, Michael, final word from you.
If Mohammed Al-Fayed's operation employed a man who was drunk and provided a car that was not well equipped to, you know, because as Mike said, it had been broken up before, how can Mohammed al-Fayyad, we're not going to get in argument because we're talking about an amazing woman's legacy, but how are they not able to go, yes, in part, we made a few mistakes here?
I don't understand it.
None of this would have happened.
Let's get back to the basics.
None of this would have happened if they hadn't been treated as quarry by vociferous, unrelenting press intruders throughout the last day of their lives.
Okay, can I ask you one last question?
Michael, can I ask you one last question?
I mourn them all.
I'm not defending the press at all.
I believe they were in part responsible.
Your description of the vociferous press and how they had it.
How do you describe the BBC that employed Martin Bashir who lied and made things up and drove Diana, I would think, in terms of psychology and mental health, to a point that she had never been before?
What do you say about that organisation?
He was disgraceful.
He was disgraceful.
And I've written several articles in the Sunday Express denouncing what he did in great detail.
So you are completely wrong there.
I have no time for Martin Bashir and I've told him so to his face.
Okay, Michael Cole, thank you very much indeed.
Duncom, I think it would be fair to say the press were in part responsible.
I suppose, guys, I mean, the biggest tragedy is that this amazing woman who was such an icon and such a beacon was taken so soon from her kids.
The Ukrainian Resettlement Scheme 00:08:44
And later in the week, we'll talk more.
We'll talk about what she would have made of the royal family today.
Her son in California with Megan.
We'll talk more later in the week about her on the cut.
And also Andrew, apparently his daughters over the weekend begging Prince Charles to allow their father and all that he's been through back into public life.
And Charles, who's taken millions of quid in old plastic bags in supermarkets, he apparently said no.
The royal family today is very different from when my old man worked for them.
But more of that coming up.
And next on Uncensored, this is good.
Imagine opening your doors to Ukrainian refugee, only for them to walk out of those doors with your partner about three weeks later.
We'll meet the woman who did just that.
She'll tell us the whole story.
It's here.
It's after the break.
We're coming right back.
Welcome back to Uncensored, my friends.
Now they say no good deed goes unpunished, and one woman who would say amen to that is Lorna Garnett.
Back in May, Lorna and partner Tony welcomed Sophia Karkadim, a 22-year-old IT worker, as a refugee from Ukraine.
And whilst Lorna was no doubt hoping the addition to the household would settle in nicely, she wasn't expecting her to settle into the bed next to her partner and the father of her kids.
This scheme, by the way, 25,000 British people signed up for the Homes for Ukraine scheme.
And in total, 84,000 Ukrainians moved into hosts' houses, £350 a month.
First up, Lorna, thank you so, so much for joining us.
Really, really appreciate it.
I don't know where to start.
Just tell us the story whilst I ask the people in the gallery to turn my ear out because I can hear them all asking what they're going to have for dinner.
Lorna, tell me how it happened.
Yeah.
So basically, Anthony was adamant that we moved in a Ukrainian refugee to help.
Obviously, everything that's gone on in the war, it's horrendous.
So he pleaded with me to go on his side to help bring in a Ukrainian refugee into our home.
So I accepted.
And 10 days later, she's packed her bags and gone, and he's followed behind her.
Can I just go back to when you said he convinced me?
Were you against the idea?
Was his motivation humanitarian, or do you think his motivation was different?
I'm not trying to foresee what was going to happen, but I'm just wondering.
You painted the picture that he was keener than you.
Why?
He wanted me to accept it because of what's happened in his past with his family.
Because he's told me a background story that he's got Russian blood, basically, and his granddad were Russian and they fled the Cold War.
So he wanted to do something good.
And obviously, if it would happen in our country, then he'd like to think that someone would be there to help us.
But I wasn't dead against it, but I had my worries about it because obviously we've got a three-year-old and a six-year-old together, and bringing a stranger into our home around two young girls, I was really funny about it.
It's really interesting from afar to have watched the people in the United Kingdom show such tenacity, I think, and do that.
So I think it shows an awful lot about our country.
But yours is one of the most talked-about stories because, as you said, within 10 days, not, I mean, fast by 10 days.
What did you start to suspect?
What happened?
I mean, 10 days is nothing.
It isn't.
So it was literally day two of her being here.
She arrived on the Wednesday.
By the Thursday, her appearance changed.
So she'd gone from wearing baggy clothes to hair scrunched up to then wearing more low-cut tops, plastering her face with makeup.
And she would always be the first one to welcome him home when he'd walk through the door saying, Oh, Anthony, you're home, you're home.
I've made tea.
And I'd be a bit like, Well, I've already made him tea, do you know?
But she'd always kind of like drag him in.
She's always been the first one there to welcome him.
So that were a bit of a red flag at first.
But obviously, I couldn't bring it up with either of them because it wasn't such a major concern at that point.
How quickly do you now know they got together from even before her arriving?
Even before her arms were come out in the press.
Yeah.
Yes, it's come out.
He's put in the in one article, I think it's with The Sun, that he'd been talking to a four month prior to her arriving in the UK.
So in a scheme that involves 84,000 Ukrainians, is there a whiff of the fact that this bloke knew and somehow managed to get her to move in with you guys?
Was this pre-planned in any way?
Is that how you now feel?
100%.
100%.
I think it was all done over Facebook, over Messenger, and he used the government scheme to help bring her here.
Oh, my lord.
One of the things that's come out, obviously recently, is that a lot of these families who showed such desire to help and get their £350, that's not enough.
I think the refugees minister, Lord Harrington, has called for the money payment to be more, to maybe be doubled because of the rising cost of living.
You talk very honestly about how you believed that he was doing it out of the kindness of his heart.
And then you paint a picture of a bloke who'd got this planned.
How does it leave you feeling?
Because this is the bit of the story that I really struggle with.
Because you say, I have no ill will towards him, really, or her.
I haven't.
Basically, what's done is done.
But in the grand scheme of things, £350 wouldn't have helped at all because the setup cost, obviously, with buying her toiletries, feminine products, going out shopping to go buy her new clothes because she came with very, very little.
I spent a hell of a lot more than £350.
But I'm not trying to...
Listen, I respect you, but I mean, you said, looking back, I'm happier than I've ever been.
So you weren't happy with him anyway.
I am.
So you weren't happy with him anyway?
It was more of.
I was happy with him.
It's his past.
So three years ago, he cheated on me with his boss from work.
We can't be afraid of that.
So there was never that trust there when we got back together.
We can't be specific on that because obviously there's only one side.
But I will say this to you.
You say that you hold no ill will, and that actually, the extraordinary thing about you is that you say that you still support the scheme despite the heartache it's brought to you.
Yeah.
I do because the way I see it is you can't tarnish everyone with the same brush.
There's good and bad in everybody out there.
And unluckily for me, we picked a bad egg.
You say a bad egg.
I do believe that there's.
Go on.
Sorry, I do believe that there's so many genuine, genuine people out there who do need a roof over their head.
They do need the support just to get back on their feet, to find a home, to find themselves a job, and live as a normal human being should.
I think you're an amazing woman.
In an interview with Yorkshire Live, your ex-partner said the couple, that's him and his Ukrainian lady, are moving to Ukraine to help orphan children.
All very admirable.
What about his own kids?
Exactly.
Exactly.
This is my issue at the minute.
In reality, he told some radio station I've never heard of.
I was doing the right thing that I believed I was doing to help someone that was fleeing a war zone.
I was making her feel comfortable, silly things like puffing.
Oh, put puffing, putting Ukrainian subtitles.
It's all very, it's all very.
But I do have to ask you this because it is in the public domain.
You say you hold no ill will to her, and I really appreciate you coming on and no ill-will to him, but you've got a restraining order against him.
I have, yes, due to threatening messages.
So that had to be put in place.
I'll tell you something.
War Zone Ethics and Motives 00:02:17
I've spoken to a few people in my time, Lorna, and I have to say that you are extraordinarily calm.
And maybe it is a lesson for us all, actually, that whatever we think is happening at the time, when you take stock, you realise that things weren't great.
And maybe all of this, however painful, puts you in a better place.
But what I really admire about you genuinely is that you can still, which is quite a British thing.
I'll be slagged off for saying that.
But I thought the way that the British people rallied behind this desire to help Ukrainians, quite rightly, was amazing.
And you're still sat here saying I do it again, which must mean an awful lot to people watching because it means a lot to me.
I wish you luck moving forward and I really, with the kids as well, I hope they're okay.
And I hope that Tony finds happiness with whatever she's called, Sophia.
Thank you so much, Lorna.
I really appreciate it.
Lorna Garnett there, the lady who opened her doors to a Ukrainian refugee, and literally, 10 days later, he ran off with her.
What a balanced and wonderful lady.
Thank you for being on Uncensored.
Right, next, running scared, eh?
Tory leadership frontrunner Liz Truss pulls out the scheduled interview with the BBC's Nick Robinson.
I don't blame her.
Saying she doesn't have time.
I don't blame her.
A good look for the soon-to-be Prime Minister.
If she is, I don't blame her.
Coming back in three.
Welcome back to Jessica's Journal's talk, TV host Mike Graham is back and political correspondent Ava Santina.
They're a double out.
Before we go, sorry, the Lorna.
You're fascinated by Lorna Garnett story, are you?
This is going to sound a lot more horrendous than I meant it, but there was something quite amusing about that Ukrainian woman flaunting her breasts around the house wearing a low-cut top.
I just thought that's really like American soap opera, isn't it?
Well, there's something, and you get the feeling that he must have known her before.
Well, I definitely got that vibe.
I mean, he's clearly a wrong, this guy, isn't he?
A wrongen.
As she would have put it, had she been kind of in that mood.
But I get the feeling they knew each other beforehand.
And, you know, for them, the war in Ukraine was an opportunity.
Well, listen, for her, I don't.
Climate Priorities vs Ukraine Aid 00:04:52
I don't think it's that.
I reckon he was talking to hundreds of people.
Well, we can't obviously.
I reckon he has to.
He might not, but he might have just fallen in love with Sophia.
They don't give it a long time.
Let's put it that way.
Well, you're cynical.
It could be love's.
Anyway, I respect Lorna.
I love.
And I made the point about the kids.
You know, that's the most important thing in all of that.
You and I know that.
Is he paying them?
Paying anything?
Why are you asking me you two?
I don't know.
I mean, he's going to go off and look after orphan kids.
So I just said, what about his ownership?
He went, exactly.
Can we talk about Artemis?
NASA calls off new moon rocket launch.
It's going to cost 93 billion.
Now, you're going to both disagree with me.
I'm not a big fan of space travel because I think we should actually be spending on the things that matter in this world.
Like what?
Yeah.
Well, kids, hospitals.
Well, yeah, we do.
We spend loads of money on all that as well.
What's wrong with going up into space?
Kids like space.
Let me just say, do I?
Yeah.
Sean the sheep.
Yeah.
Right.
Sean the sheep has been assigned a lucky seat on the 42-day trip into space.
First human astronauts will take the flight in 2025.
Oh, sorry.
That was the back of Sean the Sheep down the front.
Yeah, they're also taking Snoopy to check the gravity.
You'd like to think they know about gravity before they go up into space.
Are you a fan of space?
I quite like space exploration.
Yeah, ever since Neil Armstrong, the man who walked on the moon, told me to F off, I've had a great relationship with astronauts.
Did he?
Yeah.
I called him up for a quote on something and he told me to F off.
Didn't he?
What was the quote though?
Was it, do you believe that the BBC is responsible for Diana?
Maybe that's no, it wasn't.
That would be just a whole circle here today.
The space shuttle blew up.
Oh.
Right.
Good.
As long as you didn't mention...
Never mind.
Liz Truss.
I need said Uranus.
Liz Truss, interview.
She was going to do an interview with the BBC, that bloated organisation.
She now says she can't spare the time.
Sunak was interviewed by Nick Robinson on the 10th.
The BBC is bloated, isn't it?
The BBC is a diast, and we don't know.
We're not a fan of the BBC.
Also, Nick Robinson is an incredibly rude interviewer.
You know, I don't know who he thinks he is.
He seems to think that he represents the entire nation and is the father of democracy.
He kind of shouts at politicians.
It's not the way to do it.
That's not how you get information out of them.
And he's just really, really rude.
If I were to say, I wouldn't do it either.
Quite interesting article this week about Emily Maitlis lagging off her bosses at the BBC.
What's your view of that?
I don't think that's quite what she was doing.
I think that she was pointing out that there was a direct line into the Conservative Party, in her opinion, in one way or another.
And I actually was, I experienced that myself, not at the BBC, but another organisation.
I remember we would do certain things and I would get calls from number 10 directly to my mobile asking me to take certain things off.
So I have experienced that.
Now it's interesting, the critics of the BBC would say that there's a left-wing bias.
Well there is.
I mean I don't think you'd have to go very far if you asked a question of all presenters on the BBC as whether they voted leave or remain.
I think we all know what they did.
You can tell by their faces the night that Boris Johnson won in 2019 how upset they all were.
We know what they're like.
The point is Alistair Campbell was the king of trying to meddle with BBC politics and he quite often won.
And he was in Downing Street and he would ring up Radio 5 Live and tell them to change the top line of the country.
I must be really bastards.
I've never heard half of these radio stations.
Pakistan, on a serious note, one third of the country tonight, shocking scenes, is underwater.
At least 1,200 people now have died since the monsoon season began.
Climate change, that's what everybody's saying.
What's your view?
It's a horrible thing.
The Queen Deep Kusan has sent a message as well.
Yeah, I mean, it's quite clearly climate change.
I think what's interesting is the same day that this is all going ahead and we're not going to be sending particularly a lot more funding.
The Independent ran a story that billions more would be cut from our foreign aid budget.
And the people who are suffering are people in Pakistan.
And instead, that money is being diverted to resituate Ukrainians into the UK.
Well, I would hope, see, the thing is, and I know you and I would never agree on this, people watching this who are struggling with the cost of living, however difficult those horrible, horrible scenes are, we get to the same thing I was saying earlier about the NHS.
Where do you prioritise?
Do you do it on climate change?
Do you do it on more doctors and nurses?
Do you do it on better education?
Do you do it on cutting energy bills?
There's only a certain amount of money.
It's a horrible choice.
Also, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, it's not our responsibility to help every other country in the world, as noble as that may well be.
There's a lot of people living in this country who have got Pakistani heritage.
There's a lot of money in that community.
You know, I would like to see them stepping up and saying, look, our country is underwater.
Let's start somewhere.
I mean, I look at those and I feel the same as Ava and you.
It's horrible and you want to do your bit, but my point is very, we haven't got much time.
How do you prioritise?
You could be talking about how we are prioritising it and we're spending that money, a lot of that money on Ukraine and not say taking it away.
We should take it away.
But why are we funneling all of our money into Ukraine and funneling it all into resettling people here and then ignoring Pakistan?
I'm sorry, but it feels like a race issue to me.
It does.
It's not though, because they're not ignoring Pakistan.
No, we give Pakistan loads of money.
What they trust to decide to do with it is their business.
They don't obviously spend it on flood defenses.
And maybe they should.
And maybe the money that we give them already, they could spend better.
And at the end of the day, you know, we've got an absolutely wrecked infrastructure.
We can't handle our own water system.
We'll have to go.
We're not underwater.
Pakistan Neglect Amidst Global Crises 00:01:12
We will be in October.
One in seven people in the middle of a drought.
We're in the middle of a drought and then we're going to be in the middle of floods.
And we haven't got anything.
It's very difficult to see those pictures, but I have to say that that, for me, that's the point, isn't it?
People in this country will say, yes, but.
And you've started saying about Ukraine.
We talked about war fatigue last week very quickly.
VMA Johnny Depp, disgusting and clearly desperate, said Amber Heard's sister, slamming Johnny Depp of his MTV appearance.
What do we think of this?
Yeah, but he was on a hologram, right?
He was a hologram.
Yeah, so it was safe.
He wasn't even aware.
No, no, he was that hologram, and he's safer in a hologram.
Yeah, he can't do anything bad in a hologram.
Holograms aren't actually real.
I understand.
I'm a hologram now.
Are you?
He's a very fine-looking hologram.
His first major public appearance since the defamation trial.
Unless, of course, he was in Newcastle playing with Jeff Beck, but that's another story.
You always frown at me and I'm slightly worried, but thank you very much.
It's lovely to have had them on a bank holiday.
You're like the top duo.
Are you at it the whole time?
All the time.
Ava, Michael, thank you ever so much.
I hope you've enjoyed your bank holiday.
It's a week until he's back.
PM, we'll be back Monday week.
But we're here tomorrow night.
That's it from me.
Don't forget, whatever you're up to tonight, make sure you have it and keep it uncensored.
Have a good one.
We'll see you tomorrow.
Hurrah.
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