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Aug. 2, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
45:33
20220802_piers-morgan-uncensored-sir-geoff-hurst-matt-hanco
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Sir Jeff and the Lionesses 00:13:00
I'm Jeremy Carl, uncensored, and coming up on tonight's programme.
The Lionesses finally bring football home.
Now, Sir Jeff Hurst, up until yesterday, the only person to score in extra time of a major final for England, joins us later.
A last-minute Court of Appeal hearing has ruled that the withdrawal of Archie Battersby's life support should not be postponed.
I'll be speaking to his mother, Holly Dance.
And former health secretary Matt Hancock joins me with his thoughts on the Tory leadership contest.
And the big question, is he still back in Rishi Sunak?
Good evening, my friends, and a big, big welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored with me, Jeremy Kyle, the disappointing sequel, the always tricky second album, the Big Breakfast with Richard Bacon.
You get the feeling so.
The big guy has gone away for five weeks off to chat to serial killers as one does.
He's locked his dressing room, or should we say his wing, with strict instructions for me to stay well out.
The pre-show delivery of raw steak has been cancelled and I'm not even allowed to sit on his chair.
I had to bring this rather dodgy one from home.
The powers that be though, my friends, spent the summer casting around for a brilliant replacement.
Derma O'Leary said no.
Ant wouldn't do it without Deck and Deck wouldn't do it without Ant and even Jeremy Clarkson was busy.
But finally they found their man and they threw the talk TV contacts book open at the right page to a junior producer.
But disaster struck.
The novice dialed the number above by mistake and before they knew it Jeremy Paxon was a no and instead you lot are lumbered with me.
That's how it is and here I am.
But the show my friends won't be different don't worry.
We'll have all the big name guests, the massive interviews, the headline making revelations that you come to expect from PM.
We might have a bit of fun too and who knows?
With Gobby away maybe Meghan Markle will fancy coming on and having a chat just to spite the old man.
Now it'll be entertaining, it'll be informative and of course it'll be uncensored.
Third tonight though and as Bedeel and Skinner prophesies it's finally come home celebrations today continuing for England after their brilliant 2-1 win over Germany last night.
Ella Toon, Chloe Kelly got the goals to give England its first victory in a major international football tournament since the men's World Cup triumph of 66 and check this.
A whopping 17.4 million people tuned in to watch this amazing moment last night.
In he goes, Bronzeride got the touchdown.
Kelly's in there.
The goal to this branch is in.
Finally scores for England.
England have won a major trophy for the first time ever.
England have conquered Europe on a football field.
They are the European champions.
Joining me now is former Lioness and talk sport presenter Leanne Sanderson who has 50 caps for the England team.
And as well the last time England won a trophy was in 1966 and I'm totally shocked.
I'm a massive fan.
Sir Jeff Hurst joins me from that team right now.
Sir Jeff, good evening, sir.
How are you?
I'm okay.
Thank you.
Very well.
Thank you.
You gotta sound more excited than that, man.
It's amazing.
Well, I'm not excited.
Listen, I'm not excited now.
All right.
I was very excited yesterday.
It was absolutely absolutely fantastic.
Let's start, Leanne.
You were there, weren't you?
There's been loads of talk today, and I get it, about what this means for women's football.
Let's just talk about the atmosphere inside Wembley.
87,000 people, more than watch the men.
Let's get it in there.
What was it like, the atmosphere?
It was amazing.
I've been fortunate enough to be at every single game commentating for talk sport and it was just an amazing atmosphere at all the stadiums, whether it be Brighton, Sheffield.
But yesterday was incredible and I've never had so many ticket requests for a game.
I genuinely believe it could have sold out like three times over.
And I've always said seeing is believing and if you advertise something people will come and people laugh when I say this.
I love Beyoncé.
I don't just go to the O2 hoping she's going to turn up, you know, and wait.
I think we didn't advertise the women's game in this country ever in the last six months.
You know, TV outlets, radio stations have taken hold of, you know, women's football in this country and everybody can see it.
And now they have role models to look up to.
Now, role models were there before, but at the same time, nobody can visibly see them.
One FA Cup final that I played in a year was on TV and now all the games are on television and people can make their own assessment of the players individually.
And I think that's what's amazing.
I was there yesterday.
I cried at the end because I was so emotional genuinely because I just felt like I've been there.
You know, I played in the final in 2009 when we lost to Germany 6-2.
You know, I've lost at Wembley to Germany 3-0.
So it was just so great for all the players, my former teammates, and it was just brilliant.
Sir Jeff, I read this amazing quote from you, sir.
You're the only man to score a hat-trick in a World Cup final.
When Chloe Kelly scored an extra time, you tweeted, amazing, holding breath, followed by European champions, unbelievably proud.
What was it like for you, Sir Jeff, watching that yesterday?
Well, the strange thing is, probably more excited watching a great game like that than probably playing in the final.
Because when you're playing in the game, you're so focused on the game itself.
You're not aware of the atmosphere or the tension, really.
It's when you actually become a fan and you're watching it that you get quite excited.
And I was genuinely as excited as every other fan in the country.
Not the people at Wembley, of course, but the people all over the country.
You look at, you know, Trafalgar Square.
It was absolutely magnificent.
And you become aware of the importance.
I think what Leanne said as well, Sir Jeff, you know, 17 and a half million people watched that match.
And this sort of building crescendo in the country, I'll be perfectly honest.
Until it got to the quarterfinal stage, I was probably your architect.
Well, I'm a West Amherster, so Jeff and I've got something in common.
14 years, 58 to 72, I know he's a legend.
But the fact is, it sort of started to interest me.
And then the Spain game and then the semi-final against Sweden.
And it just built.
And actually, Sir Jeff, Leanne's right.
The interest, the turnout today, phenomenal.
And what does that do, do you think, for female women's football in the future?
Oh, it's tremendous inspiration.
Even before the result in the final, a major step forward getting into a final.
It was already going to inspire many, many young girls in this country, whether we'd won or lost.
But now going on to win it, of course, it is absolutely magnificent.
I recall 20 years ago, I went to Shaw and five women had introduced him to the level one coaching course.
And four of the five women when we had a cup of tea afterwards said they were barred from playing football.
So we have, you cannot believe how much we have moved on.
And this, this win yesterday is another giant step for women's football and for young girls to be inspired to get involved in playing football at four or five years of age.
Fantastic.
Completely agree.
Serena Viegman, the manager, fascinates me.
I've got some facts here.
We talk about how female football now will move forward.
Gareth Southgate earns 5 million quid a year.
Serena Viegman owns 400 grand.
The average wage of a professional footballer for a female in England is 30 grand and the average Premier League wage is 60 grand a week.
Can you see that moving because of this?
Because of TV money, because of interest, because all of my kids, everybody was totally into it.
Yeah, and I think eventually, you know, they'll have to get with the times because the US women's national team, you know, have just got equal pay.
A lot of the countries all over the world have.
I think ultimately it comes down to revenue and I think they've seen now they can bring in the revenue.
The sponsorships are there and everybody wants to be on board and it's been a fantastic tournament for that.
And, you know, I think obviously I get asked that question a lot about equal pay and the fact that I make more money now doing TV work than I ever did playing football is quite sad at the end of the day, isn't it?
Because I retired two years ago and make more money now.
Let's be honest.
Let's go to the chase.
You must be absolutely gutted to have missed.
I always think all those premiership footballers will go, he's on 300 grand a week.
I wish I hadn't retired.
But you're proud of where the game is.
But do you feel like you missed the boat a bit?
No, because I still work in the men's game now and I work in the women's game and you know I'm still involved.
We don't need to talk about that.
No, we do.
Man United.
Get out.
So Jeff, what's she doing?
Man United, man.
Now listen, let's talk West Ham.
What an extraordinary couple of years we've had under the Moise Ayah.
Can you see West Ham, you know, getting there into the Champions League?
Come on, let's give it a bit of a plug.
Well, actually, amazed, you want to talk about West Ham United after the ladies winning the tournament yesterday.
I'm very happy to talk about West Ham, of course.
Fine, okay.
Well, I'm happy to talk about West Ham, particularly when we do well.
I very rarely talk to journalists about West Ham when things haven't been going so well.
You go back two years and you're relegated.
So it's been an absolutely, again, a magnificent season for the Hammers under David Moores.
I think the recruitment prior to that, a couple of years ago, wasn't very good.
He's turned it all around.
And a great run in Europa League, vying for that top four for most of the season.
It was always going to be slightly out of our reach.
But where we've come from, nearly relegated two years ago, it's a magnificent step forward.
And the reason...
So it is, you know, 60,000 people now at the ground.
It's a magnificent time for the Hammers.
The reason I actually did that genuinely was because the apathy around West Ham as a West Ham fan up to a couple of years ago, you could almost level at female football, women's football, because I promise you, four weeks ago, it didn't resonate.
One of the things I thought was...
But when I watched the women's game, not really, if I'm being completely honest.
I'll tell you one thing women don't do when they get tackled.
They get straight up.
They don't squeal like men do.
I mean, they just, to me...
But there's a lot of people like you, Jeremy, that are around the country that felt that way.
And you can be honest.
I mean, people come up to me and say whether they like the game or not.
I don't really care.
At the end of the day, what I know is this Lionesses have done an unbelievable job in the way they've won.
We didn't win.
You know, I did pave the way.
Loads of players paved the way before me.
But ultimately, these Lionesses have won.
And it is changing, you know, people's perceptions of the women's game and stereotypes.
And we're not trying to be the men.
We're not trying to compete with the men.
We're trying to do, I said, you don't have Serena Williams against Federer, do you?
Compare the two.
Don't compare us.
I think it was Lord Sugar.
I could be wrong.
I'd be told if it was, he said it's just pub football.
It's never going to be the same women's football.
Can you see a female football team?
What level of men's?
Would it be the championship?
Would it be League One?
What do you reckon?
Yesterday's team, the European Champions.
It's difficult.
You can't draw comparisons because we used to play when I played Freeman against Academy players.
And they're just quicker and stronger genetically.
So you can't even compete, really.
That's a genuine truth.
And people say to me, oh, you know, Leanne, you should be playing in the men's game.
No, I shouldn't.
Because if we're doing a rondo, like a 6v2, yeah.
If I'm shooting on a goalkeeper, yes.
But when it comes to 11v11, like they just kick the boy over our head, run onto it, and just genetically, they're quicker.
So Jeff, as one of the greatest strikers this country's ever seen, that World Cup hat-trick will stay in folklore forever.
What did you make of Ella Toon's finish?
I thought it was one of the coolest chips I've ever seen in my life under pressure.
Well, that was absolutely top class, wasn't it?
I mean, what can you say about it?
It wasn't a chip.
It was almost like a half volley flicked over.
I mean, absolutely perfect.
And you wouldn't get a better finish.
We talk about not comparing men and women naturally, of course, in the game, but you would not get a better finish from a man than that goal.
It was absolutely fantastic.
And what a great way to open the account.
And then you think about Russo's back heel in the semi-final.
I mean that, I mean, with respect, if a man had done that, they'd be saying that's better than Pele.
It was extraordinary, wasn't it?
Yes, it was.
I will say two things about that.
That's probably, and I'm not being patronising to women here or against men, that was probably the best backhill I think I've ever seen in any class of football.
I agree.
Against that, I would say I think the goalkeeper probably felt a little bit regretful of letting it go through her legs, as unexpected as it was.
So Jeff, you're very kind.
I really appreciate you joining us.
And Leanne, last word from you.
You talk about what this means.
What do you hope it means for the future for women's football in the world in the United Kingdom?
I hope it changes.
I hope it's here to stay.
You know, when I played at Wembley before, there were 70,000 there.
We'd go to Boren Wood.
When I played for Arsenal, there'd be 300 people there.
So I encourage people, like I have done all day, go out, buy a season ticket for your WSL club, WSL2, because we need you there.
We need the funding and stuff like that.
But the women's football is here to stay.
And hopefully people like yourself have been changed during this talk.
And that couldn't happen either.
You can take me to a WSL game now.
Anything for a free ticket.
Leanne Sanderson to Jeff Hurst, thank you very much indeed.
The amazing Lioness is winning and are now European champions.
Uncensored next.
Archie's Case and Evidence 00:08:43
Now, a last-minute court of appeal hearing has ruled the withdrawal of life support for Archie Battersby should not be postponed after a UN committee asked for time to consider the case.
And after the break, exclusively, I'll be joined by Archie's mum, Holly Dance.
Stay with us.
We're coming back in three.
Welcome back, my friends.
And I'm sure many of you have been following the tragic story of Archie Battersby.
On the 7th of April this year, 12-year-old Archie was found unconscious at home in Essex and has been in a coma ever since.
His mother, Holly Dance, found him and believes the incident occurred whilst her son was taking part in an online challenge.
Now, doctors treating him believe he is brainstem dead and have consistently argued ending his life support is in his best interest, but his parents believe it's their decision.
This afternoon, his parents lost an appeal to delay the decision, and the court decided that this boy's life support treatment will be switched off at midday tomorrow.
I spoke to Archie's mum last week on the radio.
I'm delighted she's agreed to join me now on Uncensored Holly.
Good evening.
Thank you for taking the time out.
God only knows what you've been through.
Such an emotional roller coaster.
But what I was keen to do was sort of expand on what we spoke about on Friday because what you told me on the radio, I think I changed my opinion.
Can you just explain the reasons why you and your family are still fighting as hard as you are?
I'm fighting, well we're fighting as hard as we are because the evidence that's been put over into the court is far from actually the condition that Archie's in.
We've been here 115 days now.
We was told Archie wouldn't last the night.
He's stable.
I've had a friend that's come up to visit that's actually been a qualified nurse for 25 years.
It was put across, I think, I believe today, that Archie's organs are failing.
She's said 100% today that there are no signs whatsoever that Archie's organs are failing.
The whole, all his stats every single day, he's holding himself very well.
For somebody that's supposed to be deteriorating, you know, the courts have said today that he's deteriorating, he's losing weight.
That's not the case.
He's actually gained weight.
That's been noted.
He was weighed this week, or sorry, last week.
He's gained weight.
You know, it's far from what's actually been put in front of these judges, but because we've been silenced, we're not allowed any medical experts or anyone sort of on our behalf to come in and challenge these doctors.
That's the only evidence that's going in front of the court and it's not fair.
I thought justice, you know, a court, it should be hearing both sides of the story.
That's not the case.
Holly, you've tried the Supreme Court, you've tried the UN, there was an intervention.
I know you won't keep up, keep from maintaining the fight, but what is essentially left?
I find it really concerning that you say that there's almost not a cover-up, but you don't feel you're getting a fair hearing.
What do you need?
What do you want?
Because when you explained to me on Friday about what you were feeling and what you were seeing, it's very different from what perhaps has been reported.
Because you would understand, we've had discussions before, that a lot of people will say their heart goes out, this is terrible.
Others might say, come on, is there nothing else you can do?
Are you holding on to the impossible dream?
How would you answer those people, Holly?
Well, the UK seems to be the only country that doesn't have any options.
In the UK, it's a case of you're diagnosed with brainstem death, which can I add, Archie's never been brainstem tested.
It was terminated.
He's never had that test.
So legally, he's never been pronounced brainstem dead.
I think that seems to have come across that it's been a bit confused somewhere along the way.
Over here, it's a case of you're diagnosed brainstem dead and that's it, it's death.
Other countries, there's there's rehabilitation programmes if you're diagnosed with the same injury as Archery.
There's coma arousal.
We seem to be very cut and shut on what we can actually offer brain injure to patients.
Let's move from talking about obviously what's out there in the public eye.
We just saw pictures of you holding your son's hand.
I've got five kids.
My absolute heart goes out to you.
I can't even believe or imagine what you're going through.
What in there, in the room, what is that like as a mother?
It's hard, it's really hard.
As I said before, it's breaking me, but I just it's so frustrating to hear what's being put across in a courtroom to what I'm actually seeing.
There's nobody in that hospital that spent as much time with Archie as me.
None of the nurses, none of the clinicians.
I'm seeing, I'm taking pictures, I'm videoing.
I've got the evidence that Archie is progressing.
So, yeah, it's hard, it's frustrating, it's hard.
And the hospital is a lot of people who are not.
You don't believe the hospital have given him enough time to recover.
Can I just read which we have?
No, I definitely don't.
Holly, Alastair Chesser, the chief medical officer for Barts Health NHS Trust, says our sympathies and condolences remain with Archie's family at this difficult time.
We are following the direction of the courts, so no changes that we made to Archie's care whilst the family appealed to the Supreme Court, though we will prepare to withdraw treatment after midday tomorrow unless directed otherwise.
Tell me, as a mother, as a parent, it's what?
Half past eight on a Monday night, the 1st of August.
The legal system in this country says that your son's life support will start to be turned off tomorrow at midday.
What does that, what do you do?
What do you think?
How do you what's next?
Well, obviously, I had this, I was first notified on Saturday that they were going to carry that out today.
They've already told me today that we don't even have the right to take our son to a hospice.
You know, it's very much what the Trust wants, the Trust seems to be getting.
And I think the whole it needs reforming over here.
No parent should be going through what we're going through.
I've spent all weekend with so much anxiety in my chest.
And to be honest, we've had this from day two, you know, being pushed through all the court cases.
Just no empathy, no compassion.
Holly, it's unimaginable as a parent, the horror, the anxiety, as you said.
I just want to finish by, listen, I think that everybody watching this would want to offer you and your family support and love and understanding.
Can you, though, if...
Whether it's an independent legal body or medical body or whatever, can you see a point, and please take this the right way, Holly, because we know each other.
Can you see a point where the evidence is all presented in the right way, where you and your family would say goodbye to Archie?
Or is this because of your anger with the hospital?
Is this going to continue?
It's not anger, it's frustration that how many people have actually gone through this and not questioned it.
If we was allowed specialisting of our choice, then I think maybe this might be a bit of a different story.
It's the fact that we've had a block for every single thing, even down to private blood tests.
Absolutely nothing.
It's just been cut off from day one.
No, it's our way.
That's it.
That's all we've had from day one.
So what do you do tonight?
What do you do for the next 16 hours between now and then when a court says your son's life support will start to be ended?
What do you do as a mother?
What do you do as a family?
I continue to go in and I sit with Archie as I do every day and every night.
I sit with Archie until early hours of the morning, talk, go through memories, play his videos, play his messages, hold his hand.
I'll say one thing for you.
You're an amazing mother.
You made me think as a father.
And I think that every single parent, whatever the case would go, you're doing what parents, I would do exactly the same.
Choosing the Next Prime Minister 00:13:41
I would.
I wouldn't want to believe.
And all of our hearts, seriously, here in the studio and on talk go out to you and the family.
Holly, thank you so much indeed for joining us.
We'll certainly keep you updated with that story.
Thank you so much indeed.
Now, next on Uncensored, as we head into a crucial week of the Tory leadership campaign, Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss are attempting to woo voters with a policy bonanza.
The big question, which strategy will pay off?
Next, Peter Cardwell and Conservative MP and former health secretary, yes him, Matt Hancock, here after the break on Talk TV.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan.
Uncensored, I'm Jeremy Carl and yes, you've got four and a half more weeks of me.
We are, of course, into a crucial week in the race for number 10 with Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss taking part in their second hustings event this evening in Exeter.
Now, Sunak under pressure to overhaul his campaign, as polling suggests he is lagging that far behind his rival, he might as well give up.
Penny Morden, the latest party heavyweight, I didn't describe it like that, to offer their support to Truss.
Johnny Minow, Talk Radio's political editor, the legend that is Peter Carwell.
How are you?
Hi, Jeremy.
How are you doing?
I'm good.
So much I want to ask you about, and this is very direct and straight, right?
We've had this whole thing where the MPs get down to the final two and Sunak won that.
But let's cut to the chase.
The Tory grassroots are an extraordinary breed of person and people, aren't they?
They waited and waited for somebody to do Johnson in, but they will never trust the person that did it.
And Rishi Sunak has got absolutely no hope of winning, has he?
You're absolutely right.
And I think that if he were to win, it would take a miracle, really.
And I think there are even people close to Rishi Sunak who would admit that.
And the fact is that Liz Truss is someone who has captured the imagination here.
She says herself she's not the slickest operator, but she's someone who communicated really well at those hustings tonight.
They're still ongoing in Exeter.
Thousands of people packed into the room to listen to her.
And she's putting policies forward that people want as well, like lowering taxation.
She's the sort of continuity candidate, isn't she, to Johnson?
And I've heard some really interesting sort of things going on.
And I'm going to throw you a conspiracy theory because you'll go, you're losing the plot, Jesse, right?
So Johnson, right, she wins.
Sunak never gets to be in the cabinet again.
He goes and spends his money with his wife, right?
She makes Boris Johnson the envoy to Ukraine, keeps him in high profile.
She does two years quite well, loses the next election to Dear Karma, or what his name is.
And then Boris Johnson makes a comeback and people laugh about it.
Well, there's a lot of what-ifs in that, but I'm sure that...
71% of the Tory membership want Boris Johnson back.
How is it possible?
I'm sure it's crossed his mind as well.
He called what Rishi Sunak and others, let's remember, there were dozens of people who resigned.
It wasn't just Rishi Sunak.
He called it the biggest stitch-up since the Bayou Tapestry at the Week, which is a great line.
But at the same time, you've got to remember that he will certainly have, at least in the back of his mind, maybe in the front of his mind, the fact that he's a young-ish man.
His career may not be over and he may be back in some regard.
But certainly envoy to Ukraine would be a good thing for him to do for a couple of years.
Do you think the Tory party, who as I said, are well known for getting rid, and it's their right, I know we've talked before on the radio about democracy, but it does seem particularly wrong that 180,000 Tory members should be able to decide out of a population of 74 million who the next Prime Minister is going to be.
And I think there is that feeling, Pete.
It's a fair point, but at the same time, previously, it was just the MPs who decided who the leader should be.
And the fact that members have a vote, those ballots will be landing on their doorsteps tomorrow.
They can actually change their vote as well.
But yeah, you can vote once.
You can vote once either electronically or by your ballot.
And then if you change your mind between now and the 3rd of September, you can go the other route, whether it's the ballot or online, and change your mind.
That's the second one that's counting.
You've described to me, Baha, in the past, you're a political nerd, right?
Can you in any way see Rishi Sunak winning?
It's not impossible.
Five weeks ago, we said Boris Johnson was talking about a third term.
Four weeks ago, nobody had really heard of Penny Morton.
Three weeks ago, people thought Penny Morton was going to be the next Prime Minister.
I didn't.
Now she's, well, some people did.
I did.
And now she'd endorse Liz Truss.
I mean, never say never.
There's a long way to go until the end of this leadership contest.
But it certainly looks today, anyway, as if Liz Truss has this in the bag.
One of the things for, we've got Matt Hancock, former health secretary, in just a tick.
One of the things that the big Whigs of the party, the Tory party, are upset about these blue-on-blue attacks and how they're tearing themselves apart.
There's a lot of people, political commentators, saying that for the good of the Tory party, Rishi Sunak should step aside because it's not going to get any better.
Would that ever happen, do you think?
It could hypothetically happen, but essentially, because Andrea Leadsom withdrew when she was against Theresa May, they've essentially signed up for this whole, all these hustings.
They were the second one tonight.
There are going to be 10 more right across the United Kingdom.
And actually, if you're a Conservative Party member who's paid your 25 quid, you actually have to get a lot of it.
They want to hear from these candidates.
They want to be in the same room as them and hear what they have to say and then make their decision in many examples.
Good man.
Johnny Minnow, Conservative MP and former Health Secretary, good friend of mine, Matt Hancock.
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored with Jeremy Carl and Matt Hancock.
How are you?
How are you?
I'm fine, thank you.
Very good.
Good.
You're very calm.
You always are.
You've backed the wrong horse in Rishi Sunak.
He hasn't got a hope, Matt Hancock.
Come on.
Well, I back the person, having worked closely with both of them, I back the person who I think will make the best Prime Minister.
And actually, if you look in terms of how the councillors think that they're voting, that's neck and neck.
There's new polling out tonight that I've just seen in the Times newspaper that shows that Rishi is catching up with Liz.
And I mean, I think that both of them would make a very good prime minister, but I'm absolutely clear that I think Rishi would make the better of the two.
And I've worked very closely with both of them.
It's about the policies and it's about the character and the ability to deliver and get stuff done in Whitehall and get things moving.
And on both of those, I think Rishi's the one to go for.
Can I ask a question as a Tory MP?
I've got a good friend of mine, I won't name him, who says that the difficulty in being a backbench Tory MP is you've got to sit on your hands and you can't show yourself too soon in a leadership battle, because if you show for the wrong person, you're consigned to history forever.
And if you, if you don't show soon enough for somebody that wins, then you you're screwed.
Um, if Liz Truss wins of, is that the end of your?
Is that the end of your planned and hopeful comeback by backing Sunak?
Or will the party unite because a lot of criticism at Hancock about these blue-on-blue attacks can this end?
Yeah, I don't like the blue on blue attacks.
I don't think actually they work for the people doing the attacking.
Frankly, I think that people see through that and it it comes across worse for the side that's doing the attacking.
I don't like it and I refrain from it because actually I think what we've seen is a vibrant debate about, about policy and about the way forward.
That was true when there were 11 candidates.
It's still true now that there were.
There are just the two and you know, on the central questions like do we need to tackle inflation?
You know, I think that's a really big debate, and I think I think we do, and you know, the package that Rishi's put forward on that, I think, is compelling.
But here's the thing.
But the broader point you're making, the broader point you're making in terms of MPs is, you know, I the way I approached it was, you know, that I didn't want this leadership contest to happen, but when it was obvious that Boris had to stand down, I just looked across all 11 of those candidates right at the start.
I knew them all, I'd worked with them all and I just thought who would be the best prime minister and for me, the choice was clear, Peter.
Yeah, it's interesting.
I wonder if I could perhaps ask Matt Hancock a question.
Is that all right, Jeremy?
Yeah, I just wonder.
I mean, the 2019 election, as well as Brexit, was one on funding for the police and increasing police numbers, investing in schools, investing in the NHS.
We've heard a lot about tax, but we just really haven't heard a lot about those three issues.
Are those things that the candidates need to talk about to remind people why they voted conservative in 2019, perhaps?
Well, I think it's a really important point.
You know, Rishi's been talking about the NHS and I think that's important and, of course, he comes from an NHS background.
I think that both the the voters you know the members you were talking about who are making this decision and, of course, voters at a general election want to hear about public services want to hear about the NHS in particular.
I think on policing, there's probably not that much between the two candidates.
Both support the 20,000 more police that that was our commitment at the last general election.
But you've heard basically one of the candidates talking about public services, that's Rishi.
And I think we need to talk about the economy and the NHS and the other public services too.
And that's important not just now for choosing the next prime minister, but also for winning the next general election.
And I think that's probably why all the polls show, and these polls are the reliable ones, that of the two candidates, the one who can most easily beat Keir Starmer is Rishi Sunak.
And for me, that's particularly important because Labour have admitted they can't win the next election on their own.
And so it wouldn't just be Starma, it would be Starma and Sturgeon splitting our country apart.
And for me, that really, really matters.
Matt, have you been promised a job by Rishi?
Is that how it works?
No, haven't had that conversation.
No, I phoned him up and went to see him and I said, I know all the candidates.
I think you'll be the best next Prime Minister.
How can I help?
Would you take one if he offered it?
Well, I probably would, but I haven't had that conversation.
Let's see what happens.
What about if Liz wins?
What about if Liz wins and goes, Matt, despite the fact you're back, Rishi, I want you in my cabinet.
Would you do that?
With all the, you know, let's be honest, you've had a tough time with everything that happened.
We're not going to talk about that tonight.
We're talking about politics here, not personal life, but all that scrutiny.
Would you be happy to come back?
I'd be happy to serve under either candidate if as Prime Minister they asked me to do a job for them in the cabinet.
Absolutely, I think it's about public service.
We talked about blue on blue.
Nadine Dorris has been heavily criticised today for sharing a mocked-up image over the weekend showing Rishi Sunak stabbing Boris Johnson in the back with a knife in a parody of the overthrow of Julius Caesar.
The retweet was banded dangerous and distasteful by Sunak backer Greg Hans.
What's your response to that?
That's not what we want, is it?
In any which way?
Well, I understand that she's undone the retweet and I think the less said about that sort of thing the better.
You know, this should be about policy, it should be about character and I think that's the best level of debate to have.
You know, I worked very closely with Nadine during the pandemic.
She was one of my junior ministers in the health department and I got to know her very well.
I think, as I said before, I think this sort of personal attack actually plays worst for the side who are doing the attacking because people who are members of the Conservative Party are not, you know, they're pretty engaged in politics.
They can see through things like this and they ask about motive and they want to see people behaving properly and in an upright manner.
And so frankly, I think it's counterproductive from those who are doing it.
But I also think that it's not the important stuff.
The important stuff is what has each candidate got to offer the country.
And I think Rishi's vision is very compelling.
You talked about policy, Matt.
Peter would agree with me on this.
You talked about policy and character.
Many people say that's why Boris Johnson had to go because of his character.
Although I heard something very interesting the other day and I'll change the words.
This viewer said to me, Boris Johnson is a bit of a shifty liar, right?
But he's my shifty liar and I voted for him and I still want him to be Prime Minister.
What would you say to that, Tory?
Well, I think that when it comes to the next election, we've got to be able to offer a bright, positive vision for the future for people right across the country, north and south, in the way that Boris Johnson managed to very effectively in 2019, which is what won us the 80-seat majority.
You know, history will pick over the reasons why he eventually decided he had to resign.
And they'll do that, you know, for a long time.
I'm sure many books are written about it.
What matters now, and what's so important to me, is that we have that positive, compelling offer from somebody who can attract voters who may not have voted Conservative before or just the once in 2019 and make sure we can appeal right across the country.
And the polls clearly show that that candidate of the two left is Rishi Sunak.
And the reason that's so important is the alternative is Starma plus Sturgeon.
And that thought horrifies me.
Tom, Charles, and Bin Laden 00:09:23
We'll agree to disagree.
I don't think he's got a cat in hell's chance of getting into 10 Downing Street.
But Matt Hancock, I appreciate your honesty.
I appreciate you coming on.
And thank you very much indeed.
We'll watch this.
Peter Carbohl, thank you very much indeed.
Will it be Sunak?
Will it be Liz Truss?
The Hustings continue.
On the 5th of September, he'll be back.
The big man, Mr. Morgan, well, Sir Piers, as I now call him, he'll be back.
He sorted this himself.
I'll be back the day there's a new Prime Minister.
I think this is a con.
I think PM has gone for five weeks because he wants to be PM.
That's what I think.
Right, next, I'll be joined by Piers' Pack.
It's all about him.
The Sun's political reporter, Noah Hoffman, and political correspondent, Ava Santini, plus royal author Tom Bauer.
Stay with us.
I'm coming back in three.
Don't go anywhere.
Welcome back, my friends.
This is Piers Morgan Uncensored with me, Jeremy Carl.
Now, I've sat here.
We've got Piers Morgan Uncensored Mugs.
We've got Piers Morgan Uncensored Pens.
And next, they said it's Piers Pack.
Well, we're changing.
It's a rebrand.
Tonight, Jez's Journos, political correspondence.
How awful is that?
Political correspondent for politics, Joe Ava Santina, and the Sun's political reporter, Noah Hoffman.
Welcome.
And before we beat them, first, now this is interesting, over the weekend we learned of a Sunday Times report that the Prince of Wales accepted a payment of a million quid from the family of Osama bin Laden.
The Prince is said to have accepted the money from two of Bin Laden's half-brothers in 2013.
That was a couple of years after the al-Qaeda leader was killed.
Now, joining me now to discuss this is royal biographer Tom Bauer.
Tom, good evening.
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored with me, Jeremy Carl.
How are you?
Good morning.
Good evening, Hugo.
Good morning, man.
How are you?
Welcome to the show.
Let's talk about this.
I will tell you straight away, Tom Bauer.
I'm a royalist.
My old man worked for the Queen Mother for 41 years.
And I'll start by saying my opinion, which is that he used to say to me, we will never know in this country how amazing that woman is until she's gone.
And none of the rest of them will ever be anything as good as her.
Now, Prince Charles has been questioned many times before.
We had a situation of money in bags, didn't we?
Harrod's bags.
Now, RV Nick's maybe.
Now, apparently a million quid from Osama bin Laden.
Not a great look.
Well, not from Osama bin Laden, from his family, who had split off from him some years earlier.
It looks very bad.
I mean, the problem is it's not the first time he's been caught out.
And as I wrote in my book four years ago, he was selling access to himself for large sums of money for many, many years, for more than 20 years.
And he was warned by his own father to stop it, and he didn't.
And in my book, I did show how the people who he was attracting were increasingly what we could call colourful.
They were controversial.
They were people who he shouldn't have been with, let alone taking money from them.
And I just fear that this is one more nail in his coffin, so to speak, being very, very dramatic, because it's going to get worse, in my view.
And more of these stories of him taking money in suspicious circumstances are going to emerge.
And it where do you get Tom?
Where do you get that information from?
That's easy to say, but you have that as information that there are more stories.
You have fact to that absolutely, because I traced his money role back to the last century, back to the late back to the 90s, when he had employed an American called Robert Higdon, who then was ousted by Michael Fawcett, and they were selling access to Charles for dinners lunches, drinks or visits to his house in Scotland and the people were not with it, were not people who he should have been mixing with,
and the detail was never always available.
Sometimes it was, but now there's clearly a leak.
There's clearly somebody who's disgruntled, who's decided to leak bit by bit, and the stories are not good for Prince Charles.
Let's move to Jez's journal.
It's not the pack.
Ava Santini, thank you very much.
Santina, thank you for joining us tonight, Noah as well.
Prince Charles, his judgment being called into doubt.
Do you understand that?
Yeah, but I think what's more interesting is probably the judgment of the Charity Commission.
I mean, we heard this afternoon that they're not going to be investigating it any further.
Now, I'm sorry that you're a royalist, but that, you know, the chair of the Charity Commission is a political appointee.
He is married to one of Charles's bridesmaids.
So I would just say that maybe a conspiracy theory might theorists might say maybe they're not investigating to protect Charles.
You don't have to apologise to me about being a royalist.
No, I'll bring you in as well from the sun.
I don't think that this generation, past the Queen, I don't think we'll ever have the same, will we?
I can't see it.
I think this country will, when the Queen is no longer with us, they'll go, actually, no wonder all these Commonwealth countries want to leave.
They don't set themselves out somehow like she does.
Do you know what I mean?
I do know what you mean, but I think that is perhaps more applicable to Charles than, say, William and Kate, who polling have shown are quite popular with younger generations.
They're sort of with like what's woke, what's acceptable for Gen Z. Whereas Charles, you can't really say the same.
But I will say on this story about the bin Ladens, very interestingly, I actually went to university with Osama bin Laden's niece.
Yeah, it was a bit of a coincidence.
She was very normal and quite nice.
She was, I'm pretty sure she was the president of our university's Middle East Society, which was a bit funny.
And she changed her surname.
But sometimes I think people forget that the family is not the same.
He was a black sheep or something.
They're a bit different.
And I'm not defending the decision in any way.
All right, we've got four minutes.
So very quickly, Tory leadership.
Ava, who's going to win?
It's obvious, isn't it?
I think it is obvious.
But, you know, I mean, Rishi Sunak is acting as if he's 20 points ahead in the polls.
And actually, you know, he's kind of more potentially maybe he's happy.
U-turning as well, 4P hasn't been able to get a lot of money.
Has he really U-turned, though?
It's such a boring tax cut.
I mean, we're talking.
Sorry.
But I mean, realistically, four pence off.
You know, if you're earning 32K, that's going to potentially save you 700 quid.
Realistically, if your energy bills are £3,000, that's nothing.
Isn't the truth, which for a lefty, you'll appreciate the fact that if your wife's worth 750 million quid, whether we like it or not, your average man and woman in the street, the length and breadth of this country, are struggling, right, to heat their homes and fill their cars with petrol, right?
They are going to go not in a million years, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Rishi Sunak had to do something.
Liz Truss's team came out straight off the bat.
They said, £30 billion, we're going to reverse the national insurance hike.
This is what we're going to do to stop filling government coffers with working people's money.
You cannot say, give some blase statement about once inflation's under control, then I'll do something.
It's not going to cut it with the Tory membership.
And that's why we've seen Rishi Sunak now come out when he's behind the frontrunner.
He had to do something and that's what he's done.
Tom, can I bring you in very quickly?
We haven't got long.
Rishi Sunak, in my opinion, has not got a chance to be in number 10.
It'll be Liz Truss.
What's your take on that?
I agree with you.
I don't think he is a campaigner.
I don't think he can appeal to potentially Labour voters.
I think the wealth thing does act against him.
But, you know, on the other hand, to say that nobody rich should be running for office is just crazy because only rich people create the wealth that the poor people need for hospitals and schools and everything else.
So I think we should drop that.
But Rishi is just not going to appeal.
He's not going to cut the mustard.
I think we need experience.
Ladies, I say that respectfully.
The lionesses.
What did you make here yesterday, Ava?
Come on, this was right up your street, wasn't it?
I don't know why you need to put them against each other.
I think, you know, this is so exciting because it's the first time that women are actually allowed to, you know, play football on the same stage that men are.
Should have been a long time ago, though, right?
Are you a football fan?
I'm a massive football fan.
I'm an Evertonian.
Well, it's not really a massive football fan.
Somebody's used to disappointment.
Realistically, you know, I loved playing football when I was a kid and I was not allowed to play football after about 12 years old.
I don't know why when women hit puberty, we're not allowed to play football anymore.
Hopefully.
You know, change.
Did you watch it?
In my defence, I'm Australian and football, or soccer as we call it, is not a big thing.
But what I am a fan of is girl power, is women achieving, breaking barriers and doing amazing things as they always should.
And I could, even as someone who knows nothing about football, I felt so excited and so happy for what girls younger than me are going to grow up watching.
I felt like it would inspire a whole generation and I genuinely said it earlier.
They don't squeal when they get tackled.
They just get up.
They earn nothing compared to men.
One can argue for parity and please God that happens.
I just thought it was one of those examples, right, very quickly where this country pulls together, which is really nice, right?
And also maybe it'll inspire men to let us play football.
Don't have a go at me.
I'm not responsible for everything men.
You must be pleased about yesterday because it gives you more of a chance.
I'm really pleased that it was finally the women who got to beat Germany.
Fantastic.
Although the German press this morning said we cheated.
Did you read that?
Big Dog Favour 00:00:43
Did you see that?
I wasn't reading the German press.
No, nobody should read that.
We're too caught up in Westminster chaos.
Westminster chaos.
Listen, I want you back, if that's all right.
Jezza's journal is one of my journals, is one of my favourite things.
Thank you very much indeed.
Ava, we got on all right, didn't we?
Fantastically.
I love her.
Noah, thank you very much indeed.
And that, my friends, thank you to Tom Bauer as well.
And thank you for your patience tonight.
We did our best.
As I say, the big dog is away.
We're here for five whole weeks.
I'm going to go home now.
That's it from me.
Whatever you're up to, do me one favour.
Make sure it's uncensored.
We're standing by for the talk on Talk TV.
We will see you back here live and exclusive across the UK tomorrow from A Torah.
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