Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20220708_piers-morgan-uncensored-boris-johnson-resigns
Aired: 2022-07-08
Duration: 50:43


=== Boris Johnson Out As Leader (04:01) ===

[00:00:05]  Well good afternoon.
[00:00:06]  It's 4pm on a quite historic day for the United Kingdom.
[00:00:10]  Welcome to Talk TV's rolling coverage, which will go on for the next few hours, as Boris Johnson is out as British Prime Minister and the country awaits a new leader.
[00:00:20]  I'm Piers Morgan live from Talk TV headquarters.
[00:00:25]  And I'm Tom Newton Dunn live from Westminster alongside Talk TV's political editor Kay McLeod.
[00:00:31]  We'll bring you six hours of non-stop interviews and analysis on a truly momentous day in British politics.
[00:00:37]  If it happens, you'll see it here first with us.
[00:00:41]  So what's next for this zombie government?
[00:00:43]  What's next for the Conservative Party?
[00:00:45]  And most importantly, what's next for the United Kingdom?
[00:00:48]  It's all up for grabs today, but what's next for Boris Johnson is now clear.
[00:00:52]  Retirement to the political wilderness.
[00:00:54]  A couple of years ago, he seemed untouchable.
[00:00:57]  Britain's blonde knight, the great man who got Brexit done.
[00:01:00]  But he was undone by his own deficiencies.
[00:01:03]  Lie after lie, scandal after scandal, crisis after crisis.
[00:01:08]  If he hadn't partied through lockdown, breaking the COVID laws he made and looked after cronies who were obviously unfit for office, who knows how long he might have served.
[00:01:17]  But in the end, he lasted 27 fewer days than Theresa May, the leader with no legacy.
[00:01:21]  And what will Boris Johnson's legacy now be?
[00:01:24]  He was the COVID Prime Minister, and apart from the vaccine rollout, he was pretty bad at that.
[00:01:30]  Brexit remains barely half done with a sticking plaster on the Northern Ireland problem that somebody else will now have to solve.
[00:01:36]  So for many people, it's good riddance to Boris.
[00:01:39]  His life in top-line politics surely over.
[00:01:42]  And this is the moment that it all came crashing down.
[00:01:45]  It is clearly now the will of the Parliamentary Conservative Party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new Prime Minister.
[00:01:56]  That new leader, I say, whoever he or she may be, I say I will give you as much support as I can.
[00:02:04]  And to you, the British public.
[00:02:08]  I know that there will be many people who are relieved and perhaps quite a few who will also be disappointed.
[00:02:16]  And I want you to know how sad I am to be giving up the best job in the world.
[00:02:23]  But them's the brakes.
[00:02:25]  Well, it may be the best job in the world, but it's not Boris Johnson's anymore.
[00:02:28]  And he certainly wasn't the best at doing it.
[00:02:30]  In fact, some people today are saying he's the worst Prime Minister there's ever been.
[00:02:34]  He resigned as he governed, boasting, blathering and blaming everybody but himself.
[00:02:38]  And after three chaotic years of disorder and deceit in number 10, it took just two dramatic days of tension and treachery in Westminster to nail Johnson's political coffin.
[00:02:48]  A staggering 59 members of his government walked out after Sajid Javid and Rishi Sunak triggered the avalanche on Monday night.
[00:02:56]  But it was a moment of Machiavellian mendacity that finally finished him.
[00:03:00]  Nadine Zahawi, who Boris appointed Chancellor just two days ago, ordered the Prime Minister to resign on Treasury letter-headed note paper this morning.
[00:03:11]  Paper he'd surely only just got printed.
[00:03:13]  Johnson's new Education Secretary, Michel Donnellin, walked out this morning too, after one of the shortest terms in cabinet history.
[00:03:21]  And so it became clear that the Greased Piglet has simply run out of Greece.
[00:03:25]  The Prime Minister will continue squatting in number 10 for now.
[00:03:28]  He's out as Tory leader, but will run what's left of his government until the Conservative Party picks a new leader.
[00:03:34]  And that process could drag on until autumn.
[00:03:36]  So Johnson's reshuffling his cabinet today, offering deck chairs on the Titanic to anyone prepared to sit on them.
[00:03:42]  But the lame duck is now a dead duck, and Britain faces the bizarre spectacle of a zombie government in the internal Conservative Party election at a time of soaring inflation and energy crisis and a raging war in Europe.
[00:03:54]  Some MPs are still trying to force him out now.
[00:03:57]  Others are busy priming their supporters for the inevitable leadership contest.
[00:04:00]  So, what will Boris do as he tries to bluster on until autumn?
[00:04:05]  Who will be the next leader of the United Kingdom?

=== Zombie Government Amid Crisis (05:03) ===

[00:04:07]  History is being made today, and we're going to bring it all to you live as it all unfurls.
[00:04:14]  Well, let me bring in now Richard Seiss.
[00:04:17]  We've talked a lot in the last few days.
[00:04:19]  The inevitable has now happened, and yet we're in this bizarre situation where Boris Johnson remains in number 10, says he wants to stay there potentially till October while a new leader is found, and yet he can barely fill the ministerial positions that have been vacated in the last two days.
[00:04:36]  It's hard to know where to start, Piers.
[00:04:37]  I mean, the fact is that a man that a week ago nobody had heard of in the United Kingdom called Pincher, he stays as an MP whilst Johnson is going as PM.
[00:04:48]  It's utterly extraordinary, and it's just happened at breakneck speed.
[00:04:53]  But the reality is, you know, I spoke to you a couple of nights ago, and then you had Nadeem Zahawi, as you just inferred, accepting the job of being the new Chancellor.
[00:05:05]  The following morning, going around sort of saying that he and the Prime Minister had a great plan within hours, turning completely on a U-turn and trying to persuade the Prime Minister to leave after he...
[00:05:15]  I think Zahawi made a massive strategic mistake accepting that job because it was obvious to all of us.
[00:05:21]  Anybody with any sense of the money?
[00:05:22]  Zahwi's not now.
[00:05:24]  Okay, but Zahawi's not a stupid man.
[00:05:26]  He's a very smart guy.
[00:05:27]  He's made a lot of money in his own life.
[00:05:29]  He's, you know, amazing backstory coming with his family as refugees from Iraq and so on.
[00:05:35]  I reckon he's made a very cynical calculation.
[00:05:38]  Take that job, explode his profile, and then do what he did this morning, pull the plug on Boris, who he knew was unfit for office.
[00:05:48]  And then we've got Grant Shapstas, as I talked to you now, leaving down the street.
[00:05:52]  What's he doing in there?
[00:05:53]  What jobs he's been offered?
[00:05:55]  He's currently transport secretary.
[00:05:58]  Who knows?
[00:05:58]  We're going to be following what all these guys do.
[00:06:00]  And we're going to have this.
[00:06:02]  My point about Zahawi is I think that, in a way, I reckon he's gamed this all out.
[00:06:06]  And that actually it was a game to raise his profile right now for a leadership contest, which he may win.
[00:06:11]  Well, who knows?
[00:06:12]  Let's see.
[00:06:13]  He's expected to be on the list of runners and riders.
[00:06:17]  But the context of it, just two and a half years ago, as you say, the Prime Minister, he had everything.
[00:06:23]  People thought he was going to be there for 10 years.
[00:06:25]  And this has only happened purely because of his own behaviour, his own massive frailties.
[00:06:32]  Well, his own inability to tell the truth.
[00:06:35]  Yes.
[00:06:35]  Really?
[00:06:35]  That's his.
[00:06:36]  If he'd actually told the truth immediately about Pinscher, he might have been able to get through this.
[00:06:40]  But he lied.
[00:06:41]  And it's just, it's an accumulation of a total disconnect with the truth.
[00:06:47]  And finally, finally, after decades, it actually caught up with him at the biggest, the most important moment.
[00:06:54]  And I think, you know, we now have to look forward and say what happens next.
[00:06:59]  And I think this is the really important thing.
[00:07:02]  At any time, a country wants leadership, but at a time of crisis, when people are struggling to buy the, you know, literally to pay the food bills, we need the strongest, best, clearest leadership ever.
[00:07:13]  And yet we've got a Conservative Party who seem to think it's okay that they get together sometime next week to set the timetable.
[00:07:21]  I mean, I find that they should get in the room today.
[00:07:23]  They should be in the room today.
[00:07:25]  John Major, a former Conservative Prime Minister, he's written now to Sir Graham Brady, the head of the 22 Committee, with two proposals.
[00:07:32]  Very interesting, I think.
[00:07:33]  One, the conventional one, which is Boris Johnson stands aside immediately and Dominic Raab, his deputy prime minister, takes over as interim PM.
[00:07:41]  He's already said Raab, he doesn't want to run for leader, so he could do that, which seems to me the easiest clean cut.
[00:07:46]  He did it when Boris had COVID, for example.
[00:07:49]  The second option John Major puts forward is a completely unprecedented scenario where conventionally we'd have the Tory MPs choosing their final two candidates, then the Conservative membership of 100,000 or so people choose who they want to be actually running their party and therefore the country.
[00:08:06]  He's suggesting you bypass the membership and they just endorse the selection of the Tory MPs.
[00:08:13]  What do you think of that?
[00:08:14]  So I don't often agree with John Major, but actually I tweeted out his first scenario early this morning because I think that's exactly what should happen.
[00:08:21]  And actually now that Dominic Raab has written himself out of the leadership context, he is perfectly placed.
[00:08:26]  And I think that should happen literally now because I don't think, given how the Prime Minister behaved over the last 48 hours, I don't think he can be trusted actually to go.
[00:08:37]  He wants to be the caretaker.
[00:08:38]  I wouldn't trust him to be the janitor or cleaning the loose at number 10.
[00:08:44]  I just can't believe this guy lost confidence of his entire cabinet virtually and he's still sitting there.
[00:08:49]  So I can tell you that a cabinet minister confirmed this morning, very, very early, that he thought actually the prime minister had taken leave of his senses.
[00:09:00]  He wanted to literally be metaphorically die on the battlefield of the no-confidence.
[00:09:06]  Do you know who's currently in the frame to be the next minister?
[00:09:09]  Don't tell me you, Pez.

=== A Tragic Fall From Grace (06:05) ===

[00:09:10]  Actually, we both are.
[00:09:11]  We both are.
[00:09:12]  You're 100 to one, right?
[00:09:13]  And I'm 250 to one, but I was 500 to one.
[00:09:16]  You're coming in.
[00:09:17]  The book is, I mean, if this was Frankie Dotori at Asker, you'd be piling in on me.
[00:09:21]  But you've got all the right skills.
[00:09:22]  You've got very similar skills to be able to do that.
[00:09:23]  About the same age, newspaper background, columnist, hugely popular with sways of the British public.
[00:09:30]  And full of BS.
[00:09:31]  I mean, what's exactly?
[00:09:32]  Exactly.
[00:09:34]  I check all the boxes.
[00:09:35]  You'll get one by the end of the show.
[00:09:38]  We've got, well, keep it on.
[00:09:39]  And are those odds?
[00:09:40]  At the moment, Ben Wallace, Defence Secretary, is the guy leading the polls.
[00:09:43]  Rishi's seeing that, though, remains the most popular with the public, interestingly.
[00:09:48]  Which is extraordinary given what happened with his sort of non-dom tax scandal.
[00:09:53]  I don't think people really understood it.
[00:09:54]  And I think if your scandal involves something most of the public don't really understand, I think you've got a chance to get through it.
[00:10:00]  In Boris's case, they understood he lied about a gropical pincher.
[00:10:04]  It was the kind of language we all understood.
[00:10:06]  Stay with me, Richard.
[00:10:07]  So join now by Tom Bauer, author of the Boris Johnson biography called The Gambler.
[00:10:13]  Tom, you've been heard today to use the word tragedy about this.
[00:10:19]  Explain yourself.
[00:10:20]  Well, I think it's a tragedy for Boris himself, not for the country, because there was a man who won the spectacular victory in 2019.
[00:10:30]  We all thought there was no chance of Labour returning to popularity in the next four years before the next election.
[00:10:38]  And he had all the makings on the basis of his mayoralty in London for eight years of being a very good prime minister.
[00:10:48]  He'd got Brexit done.
[00:10:49]  He had sorted out Europe.
[00:10:52]  He'd sorted out the COVID thing up to an extent.
[00:10:55]  He had a clear vision for levelling up.
[00:10:57]  He knew exactly in his own mind, he'd spelt it out what the country was going to do.
[00:11:03]  So there it was.
[00:11:04]  And the tragedy is that his own characteristics, his own flaws, brought him down.
[00:11:09]  His complete self-destruct.
[00:11:11]  Is it the real tragedy?
[00:11:13]  From Boris's point of view, a tragedy.
[00:11:15]  Right.
[00:11:15]  Of course it is.
[00:11:16]  But it is rather sad.
[00:11:18]  Is it the real tragedy, actually, that we didn't learn the lessons that Boris Johnson taught us about his character failings?
[00:11:26]  He was fired as a journalist from the Times for inventing quotes.
[00:11:30]  He was then fired by Michael Howard for lying about an extramarital affair.
[00:11:35]  Max Hastings, who'd employed him, said he wouldn't trust him as far as he could throw him.
[00:11:40]  And yet we end up with this guy as prime minister, and he ends up, guess what, telling lie after lie after lie and getting caught up in a slew of scandals, which in the end shamed him, shamed his party, and shamed the country and exposed us all to ridicule.
[00:11:53]  I mean, it's not like we weren't warned.
[00:11:56]  He basically behaved exactly how people had warned us he would behave.
[00:12:01]  Well, you're right, people did warn and they've been proved to be right.
[00:12:05]  But, you know, no journalist is pure clear as we all know that.
[00:12:08]  Every journalist has made a mistake.
[00:12:09]  Save yourself, Tom.
[00:12:10]  I'm about as pure as the driven snow.
[00:12:13]  But then we're not all running for high office and we're not all wanting to be prime minister.
[00:12:17]  That's the difference.
[00:12:18]  Nobody would have cared about what Boris Johnson was like if he didn't then become prime minister.
[00:12:23]  Yes, but he had done eight years as mayor and he had never been accused then of lying.
[00:12:28]  And he had been foreign minister.
[00:12:30]  No, Tom, he had.
[00:12:31]  He'd already been fired twice before that.
[00:12:34]  Yeah, but the Times thing, so he made up a quote.
[00:12:37]  It was awful, but he was 21.
[00:12:39]  You know, come on, Piers.
[00:12:40]  He made up a quote that went on the front page of the Times.
[00:12:42]  I mean, you're pretty.
[00:12:43]  Come on.
[00:12:44]  Piers, I think there's a phrase in English about glass houses and stones.
[00:12:50]  Let's move on.
[00:12:50]  I've not made up a quote that went on the front page of the Times.
[00:12:53]  To my knowledge.
[00:12:54]  Let's move on.
[00:12:56]  You're a greatly successful man.
[00:12:58]  I'm not going into personal detail.
[00:12:59]  Let us just stick to the facts that he might have done a few things wrong.
[00:13:03]  Even Michael Howard says that he made a mistake firing him.
[00:13:07]  He's quite open about that.
[00:13:08]  I mean, why should he confess to an adulterous affair?
[00:13:11]  Because Michael Howard says he should.
[00:13:13]  The point is that when he won the spectacular victory in 2019, the public trusted him.
[00:13:19]  And if it hadn't been for Boris Johnson, we'd have had Corbyn, an anti-Semitic Marxist minister.
[00:13:26]  And he fulfilled the referendum result, whether you support it or not, that had to be done.
[00:13:30]  He then set out a program, which, if it had been delivered, would have been terrific for the country.
[00:13:37]  His tragedy is he couldn't deliver it because he didn't know how to make Westminster work.
[00:13:42]  He didn't know how to make government work.
[00:13:44]  He didn't know how to build a proper team.
[00:13:46]  He was just in the end completely flawed, whether it was by COVID, whether it was because of his marital situation, whether it was because of his personal defects, whatever it was, it all fell apart.
[00:13:57]  Now, you could call that just desserts, or you could call it a personal tragedy, or you could say it's pretty bad for the country at large, because this whole thing has been a complete disaster for us and hasn't edified anyone.
[00:14:12]  What I did think, Tom, I did think his, I thought the leaving speech was one of the most graceless things I've watched by a prime minister resigning.
[00:14:20]  I remember Theresa May got very emotional, and I was quite moved by her retirement, you know, her farewell speech.
[00:14:27]  Boris Johnson didn't move me at all, other than to think, look at him, he's once again, no personal accountability, blaming everybody else, the Conservative herd, for bringing him down, not his own actions.
[00:14:39]  And I just felt there was a guy just I thought graceless.
[00:14:43]  I can't disagree with you.
[00:14:45]  I agree with you.
[00:14:46]  But that is the man.
[00:14:47]  And that is the man who in the end delivered this 80 majority.
[00:14:52]  He is a totally shameless man lacking in humility, a total narcissist, a selfish man, a dishonest man.
[00:15:01]  But in the end, you can call that a dreadful man.
[00:15:03]  But, you know, it is in human terms for many Tories who trusted him.
[00:15:09]  And I didn't trust him, but I see the human side of him.
[00:15:12]  It is very sad because it hasn't benefited anyone.

=== Timing Of The Resignation (11:15) ===

[00:15:16]  We're in a terrible situation.
[00:15:17]  It'll quickly rectify itself.
[00:15:19]  Britain can survive Boris Johnson and within three weeks will have forgotten him until his memoirs come out.
[00:15:26]  Fortune telling lots more lies, probably.
[00:15:29]  But let us just look at for the moment.
[00:15:31]  There is nothing to be gained in saying we've gone through anything other than a tragic, epic episode because it has been very bad for the country, bad for the Tory Party, very bad for politics.
[00:15:43]  It's just one of those tragic events which happens in all nations in the world.
[00:15:48]  Yeah, Tom Bauer, as always, great perspective.
[00:15:52]  Really appreciate you joining me.
[00:15:53]  Thank you very much.
[00:15:54]  Pleasure.
[00:15:55]  Richard, we'll come back in a moment.
[00:15:56]  We'll have a short break.
[00:15:57]  I want to get your take on what Tom just said.
[00:15:59]  Interesting observations there.
[00:16:01]  Well, stay with us.
[00:16:02]  We've got rolling coverage the next few hours now on historic Dave Yard Kingdom.
[00:16:05]  Boris Johnson has resigned as British Prime Minister.
[00:16:09]  We are awaiting news now, the leadership contest where we'll find out who will become the most powerful person in this country.
[00:16:16]  More after the break.
[00:16:32]  Welcome back to this special edition Talk TV's coverage of the resignation of Boris Johnson this morning, some four hours ago.
[00:16:40]  Well, what does it mean?
[00:16:41]  It means that for the third time in eight years, a Conservative Prime Minister has fallen foul of their own party.
[00:16:48]  It also means for the third time in eight years, there's going to be another hot summer of Tory leadership contest.
[00:16:55]  And after all that, there'll be a fourth Prime Minister, a fourth Tory Prime Minister in 12 years.
[00:17:01]  So the runners and riders are off.
[00:17:03]  Some are already declaring their hands, others showing a little bit of ankle.
[00:17:07]  It's all going to be a very exciting few weeks for the likes of us down in Westwoods.
[00:17:10]  And it's also why, if you were to be able to see around, but you'd see a phalanx of cameras, of protesters, of spectators over there wondering what on earth all the spectacle is.
[00:17:19]  They're not from this country.
[00:17:21]  There is one thing, however, that we still don't know after today's momentous events, and that is when is the Prime Minister going to go.
[00:17:28]  He said he was off.
[00:17:29]  We believe he wants to go long.
[00:17:30]  We believe a whole load of other people in this party want him out by tonight.
[00:17:34]  Well, with me is our esteemable politicaliser, Kate McCann.
[00:17:37]  As always, at times of crisis like this.
[00:17:40]  So, Kate, let's start with precisely that point.
[00:17:42]  What do we know about precisely when the Prime Minister is going to leave office?
[00:17:46]  So, we know that as of this morning, when the Prime Minister decided that his time was up, he wants to stay in office until the leadership race is run.
[00:17:54]  Now, at the moment, the expectation is that that could be running up until September.
[00:17:59]  The 1922 committee will elect a new executive on Monday.
[00:18:03]  They will then determine a timetable.
[00:18:05]  And what's going on right now when it comes to the runners and riders is fascinating because, unless the party can coalesce around one candidate, and potentially that's Ben Wallace, then this decision has to go out to the party members.
[00:18:17]  And if it goes that far, then this contest goes long.
[00:18:20]  There are some who say today that Dominic Raab has said he won't stand to be leader for precisely the reason that there are many in the party now calling for him to take Boris Johnson's place in number 10 and force the Prime Minister out.
[00:18:32]  But there is no constitutional way of doing that, and it could get really messy.
[00:18:36]  Okay, so that's an unanswered question.
[00:18:37]  It's going to remain unanswered for a little while, perhaps.
[00:18:40]  Perhaps we'll wait and see what developments of the rest of the day are like.
[00:18:42]  Let's go back a step.
[00:18:43]  Let's talk about this morning.
[00:18:45]  So, we had this extraordinary power play, the one final power play left from Boris Johnson last night saying, I'm not going to listen to the entirety of my cabinet.
[00:18:52]  I'm going to stay on.
[00:18:53]  I've got a whole new economic policy to unveil next week with my brand new Chancellor.
[00:18:58]  Yet around 9-ish this morning, we learnt indeed from Downing Street he was going to resign.
[00:19:02]  What was the moment that changed his mind and why did he change his mind?
[00:19:07]  So, I don't think there was one definite moment.
[00:19:09]  The Prime Minister Boris Johnson doesn't really work that way.
[00:19:12]  He tends to push things until he really can't push them any further.
[00:19:15]  I think what happened today, he was always going to have a meeting with senior people in his party at eight o'clock in the morning.
[00:19:21]  When it was approaching that time, we'd already had a number of pretty senior figures resign.
[00:19:25]  The numbers started to look pretty impossible for him to be able to replace as many cabinet ministers as he expected would go.
[00:19:31]  And at that point, following a conversation with Graham Brady, chair of the 1922 committee last night, and his Chief Whip and others, the Prime Minister decided that there was just no way really for him to continue in office.
[00:19:42]  That doesn't mean, though, that he's not defiant.
[00:19:44]  The mood there in number 10 today, and remember, we've just had a cabinet meeting, is very much carry on as normal, carry on with the job, plow forward.
[00:19:52]  And we expect a big economic speech, the one that's been trailed for the last couple of weeks, to come next week at some point with the Prime Minister and potentially his Chancellor standing alongside one another.
[00:20:01]  That would be a really huge moment.
[00:20:03]  If, of course, he's still Prime Minister by next week, which is not a very big if.
[00:20:07]  Yeah, I think the difficulty here is that we're talking into really complicated constitutional terms of exactly how the party can get rid of a leader.
[00:20:14]  Monday is really the key moment for that 1922 election and we see what happens from there.
[00:20:18]  But over the weekend, if we see one candidate, one front runner, it could shorten that contest.
[00:20:23]  And we have a few people showing legs already.
[00:20:26]  We have Siola Baraban, the Attorney General, saying she's running last night.
[00:20:29]  One or two others are flirting with it, but no other full declarations there.
[00:20:32]  I suspect we'll get many more, though, as the days and hours go on.
[00:20:35]  Yeah, I expect so.
[00:20:36]  But the people who've ruled themselves out are interesting too.
[00:20:38]  And as I was saying, Dominic Rab, one of those, Michael Gov, we understand another.
[00:20:42]  Okay.
[00:20:43]  Piers, there you have it.
[00:20:44]  There will be an awful lot more from us from down here throughout the rest of the night.
[00:20:49]  Well, thank you very much, Tom and Kate.
[00:20:50]  I appreciate it.
[00:20:51]  Joined now by broadcaster Adam Bolton.
[00:20:53]  I've still got Richard Tice with me here.
[00:20:55]  So Boris has issued a statement in the last few minutes, which I'm just going to call up for you, Adam, in case you haven't seen it, in which he says the following.
[00:21:04]  I want to thank you, the British public, for the immense privilege of serving you as Prime Minister.
[00:21:08]  I want you to know that from now until my successor is in place, your interests will be served and the government of the country will be carried on.
[00:21:16]  How are my interests as a taxpayer in this country and voter going to be served by a lame duck Prime Minister that not even his own cabinet trusts to do his job, now running the country for the next few weeks?
[00:21:28]  Well, this is where it gets very messy indeed.
[00:21:30]  I mean, Boris Johnson, as he made clear outside Dinesh this morning, thinks that this is an eccentric decision to get rid of him.
[00:21:37]  He still feels that he's got support for his agenda from the election result in 2019.
[00:21:44]  Adam, I don't give a monkey's cuss what he thinks about anything.
[00:21:47]  No, but that's what he's doing.
[00:21:48]  He's done.
[00:21:50]  He's parrot.
[00:21:50]  No, but the point is he's asserting himself, Piers, and he's trying to say, I'm still here, my agenda is still here, so he's making it difficult for his family.
[00:21:58]  I get it, but why are we letting this happen?
[00:22:00]  Why is the country allowing this dead duck to do this?
[00:22:03]  Well, I'm not sure they will, you see.
[00:22:05]  I think what's going to happen is I don't think this will be resolved today.
[00:22:09]  What he should do is the decent thing and simply appoint Dominic Raab as a caretaker prime minister.
[00:22:15]  He's obviously not going to do that.
[00:22:17]  So I think on Monday, once the Conservative MPs have regrouped, they have a choice.
[00:22:22]  One is to see if they can short-circuit the whole process of choosing a leader, get it done by the end of the month, which basically involves not involving the country, having one candidate emerge.
[00:22:34]  The second solution is to say there are too many candidates, we've got to have a proper leadership contest.
[00:22:39]  And at that point, I think the pressure will be on Boris Johnson to step aside.
[00:22:44]  Richard.
[00:22:45]  But of course, this pressure, it has to come not from the people, it has to come from the cabinet.
[00:22:50]  And that requires some guts, it requires a backbone.
[00:22:52]  And the 22 committees.
[00:22:54]  And the 22 committee.
[00:22:55]  And what I think the 22 committees should be doing is they should be meeting today.
[00:22:58]  They should be making these decisions today.
[00:23:00]  It's Thursday.
[00:23:01]  This could be wrapped up by tomorrow morning.
[00:23:03]  And I know lots of people are making representations at the highest level to the 22 saying, pull your finger out, get on with it.
[00:23:12]  This is a crisis.
[00:23:13]  You can't wait until Monday with all the uncertainty that that causes.
[00:23:18]  And millions of people, tens of millions of people who are struggling will be saying, get on with it.
[00:23:24]  I want some certainty.
[00:23:24]  I think you're absolutely right.
[00:23:26]  What we're seeing at the moment, I'm afraid, is that Boris Johnson is bolder than anyone else in the Tory party.
[00:23:32]  Yeah, I agree.
[00:23:33]  That's the point.
[00:23:33]  I agree.
[00:23:34]  He's got the chutzpah to do this, and he's basically saying, well, come on, then, what are you going to do about it?
[00:23:38]  Right?
[00:23:39]  Exactly.
[00:23:39]  That's precisely what's going on.
[00:23:41]  And of course, what he's also going to do is try and stay in office and influence the leadership contest.
[00:23:47]  I mean, we've already had Andrew Griffiths, his head of policy, putting out a non-resigning letter.
[00:23:52]  I'm not resigning.
[00:23:54]  These are our policy priorities.
[00:23:55]  This is what we're working on.
[00:23:57]  So it's a zombie, zombie government, basically, with a zombie capital.
[00:24:01]  Has the leadership contest officially started?
[00:24:04]  Well, we've got Suella Bruffman saying she's a candidate.
[00:24:07]  I know.
[00:24:07]  We've got Liz Truss.
[00:24:08]  She even has a logo on her Twitter page.
[00:24:10]  Liz Truss rushing back from the latest foreign photo of it.
[00:24:13]  I know that when I had to leave Good Morning Britain, the head of programming there told me it took seven minutes for the first application for my job to come in.
[00:24:23]  That long?
[00:24:23]  Yeah, I said, what kept them?
[00:24:25]  So nothing surprises me in these situations.
[00:24:28]  But it is a bizarre situation where you've got him still stuck there.
[00:24:32]  John Major sent a letter to Graham Brady of the 22 Committee saying either he should stand aside for Rob, which is what he did, of course, when he had COVID, or, interesting suggestion by John Major, you rewrite the rules, basically, where at the moment the Tories go through their election process amongst themselves, the MPs, then they get the final two, then the membership vote.
[00:24:55]  He's saying you eliminate the membership part of that until the end.
[00:24:58]  They just ratify whatever the Tory MPs between them decide to do.
[00:25:02]  Well, they've certainly done that before.
[00:25:04]  Oh, they have done it before.
[00:25:05]  Yeah, I mean, that's what happened with Theresa May, and I think it's pretty much what happened with Michael Howard.
[00:25:12]  So the membership don't actually have a...
[00:25:14]  No, what you do, basically, technically, what you do is you offer one candidate to the membership.
[00:25:20]  Well, let's remember which one.
[00:25:20]  And then you have a confirmatory ballot of the membership, but what the hell are they going to do?
[00:25:24]  With Theresa May, Andrew Leadson pulled out, so there was no one left.
[00:25:28]  So it was de facto done.
[00:25:30]  I actually think the membership.
[00:25:32]  I think he's got a slight variant on this, because I think he's saying you don't even do that.
[00:25:36]  He does.
[00:25:36]  I think he's saying you basically, the Tory MPs go through their process, they get to the last two, then the Tory MPs make a decision.
[00:25:43]  That person becomes Prime Minister, and the membership are then asked to endorse the meeting.
[00:25:47]  No, I was just saying how you could engineer it if one of the candidates pulled out either.
[00:25:50]  I don't think the membership would put up with that because I think we all know that means you would end up with a very different prime minister to actually the will of the membership.
[00:26:00]  And many of those members are there just for this point, just for this scenario, to make sure they have a say in the next leader of the Tory Party.
[00:26:08]  Of course, that in itself, I think, would lead to a huge bust up.
[00:26:12]  And I can see why Sir John Major wants that because I think he thinks that would increase the chances of someone like Jeremy Hunt be.
[00:26:19]  Right, but is this whole concept of the membership having any say in this kind of situation anachronistic?
[00:26:25]  Well, all parties have to do it because they want to recruit people who become paying members.
[00:26:29]  But should they be allowed to?

=== Effective Caretaker Government (11:26) ===

[00:26:31]  I think it's ludicrous.
[00:26:32]  I don't.
[00:26:32]  I mean, I think you elect members of parliament.
[00:26:35]  They're the ones who should choose their leader.
[00:26:36]  No, but question one, you say, okay, Tory Party, you're going to have an election with your members to choose the next leader.
[00:26:42]  How many are there?
[00:26:42]  Oh, we don't know.
[00:26:45]  When we have the England cricket team, we pick a team of selectors, a coach.
[00:26:50]  They choose a team.
[00:26:51]  The team then picks a captain.
[00:26:53]  The idea that the MCC membership would all then have a say on who's captain.
[00:26:58]  It's ridiculous.
[00:26:58]  But all parties, and it happened in America as well with the primary system, they try to democratise this to try and get people involved in the future.
[00:27:06]  That's the point.
[00:27:06]  It encourages members to join, which of course encourages revenue.
[00:27:09]  So it also encourages the kind of abuse we saw, which led to Jeremy Corbyn becoming the leader.
[00:27:14]  That was the military leader.
[00:27:15]  Because if you let thousands of the great unwashed students of our world pay five quid each to get a say in the leader, you end up with Jeremy Corbyn.
[00:27:23]  Well, I mean, you know, that was just he set the rules wrong.
[00:27:25]  should have you know made it retrospective and you know so you can understand why it is and it's more democratic there's no question about that so there's all sorts of good reasons but if you said to people join and you'll have a say and then you withdraw that say then i think you'll get a very very okay membership indeed chaps wait here can have another short break when we come back more on our rolling special coverage of this amazing day guarded kingdom our prime minister's resigned but he's still in number 10.
[00:27:50]  What's her majesty the queen thinking?
[00:27:53]  We've got a live shot of the palace.
[00:27:54]  I think it is what's going on in there.
[00:27:57]  Does she feel comfortable with Boris Johnson still down the road as her neighbour?
[00:28:04]  We'll ponder that after the break.
[00:28:16]  Welcome back to extended live coverage on TALK TV of this historic day for the kingdom as Boris Johnson resigns dramatically as our prime minister.
[00:28:25]  Joining me now is Bim Afalami, who resigned as vice chair of the Conservatives, live on air on TALK TV on tuesday.
[00:28:32]  Well if, if a week is a long time in politics bin, I think a few hours has turned out to be the most extraordinary time in politics I can remember.
[00:28:40]  We had a new chancellor two days ago and this morning he's writing a letter on treasury headed notepaper to the bloke who appointed him, telling him he's got to go.
[00:28:51]  Yes um, that was a bit uh, a bit odd and uh yeah, it definitely feels like we've lived sort of 10 days in about three.
[00:29:01]  What the hell is going on now with Boris Johnson?
[00:29:04]  Why should he be entitled to stay one moment longer in Downing Street, given that 59 of his own ministers, including most of his highest ranking cabinet ministers, have lost all confidence in him and resigned their posts.
[00:29:20]  I don't get it.
[00:29:24]  It's taken a bit of understanding for me as well.
[00:29:26]  I think that, on speaking to colleagues today, it's important that we do have due process for electing a new leader.
[00:29:34]  Uh, I think that it's.
[00:29:36]  I'm surprised that the prime minister is staying in post and appointing new ministers.
[00:29:40]  It strikes me as very, very odd.
[00:29:43]  Uh, but that is what uh, the party as a whole seems to have decided.
[00:29:47]  I think the new 1922 executive will have a big say in it next week, and then we will.
[00:29:53]  We will see what the new 22 executive says, because actually what's important for viewers and everybody to understand is that the prime minister is not in, not in control of the timetable, you know.
[00:30:06]  So the 1922 executive, the conservative parliamentary party, is in control of that timetable and I think we we feel as collectively as a party that we will control that and get to the right resolution.
[00:30:18]  Not, you keep using the word control, with respect, you keep using the word control.
[00:30:24]  Boris Johnson's not in control of his own cabinet, never mind the country and the 22 committee.
[00:30:30]  Why are they waiting till next week?
[00:30:32]  It's thursday.
[00:30:33]  Why aren't they meeting right now?
[00:30:35]  Why aren't they just sorting this mess?
[00:30:38]  Why aren't they getting Boris Johnson out of Downing Street and putting either Dominic Rabin as the interim as he was when Boris had COVID or working something else out quickly for the national interest?
[00:30:50]  There's no control of anything at the moment.
[00:30:52]  Well I think it's fair to say that what we're going to have is a sort of caretaker administration.
[00:30:59]  I don't agree with Andrew Griffiths who seem to put out a very odd statement saying that we're working on policies or the rest of it.
[00:31:06]  I don't think there's political legitimacy for that at all.
[00:31:09]  But it's important, on speaking to several cabinet colleagues yesterday, it's important that we do have effective government.
[00:31:14]  It's important we have ministers to administratively run the country and I have confidence in how can we possibly have effective government when most of the people he's putting in there are people at the very lower end of ability and talent who just happen to be the only ones left that will do it.
[00:31:36]  That's not effective government.
[00:31:37]  That's desperate.
[00:31:38]  Desperate what I'm saying about what.
[00:31:42]  You may say that.
[00:31:43]  I do say that.
[00:31:44]  In terms of the when I say effective, when I say in terms of effective government, what I mean is people administratively exercising the functions of the state.
[00:31:56]  And that is important because we couldn't continue with a situation where everybody would preside, right?
[00:32:01]  So I think it's important we do that.
[00:32:03]  The 1922 executive, they have agreed that we'll do the elections on Monday.
[00:32:07]  The Prime Minister has already agreed we'll leave.
[00:32:09]  We will see on Monday what they decide to do.
[00:32:11]  I happen to think that there will be intense debate across the party over the coming days about what that 1922 executive should do.
[00:32:19]  In my personal preference, the 22 exec should step forward and be very, very clear about what this caretaker administration can do and what it can't do.
[00:32:29]  I don't think it makes sense for them to announce new policy or to drive things forward in that way.
[00:32:33]  Okay, one final question, Ben.
[00:32:35]  It's a very important one.
[00:32:36]  Have you lost that loving feeling?
[00:32:44]  I am for a very rare time in my life, Piers, speechless.
[00:32:49]  Ben, you may not even be aware, but as you were talking to me, you've lost that loving feeling, was blaring out from this area of lunatics down by a wall.
[00:32:59]  I mean, believe you me, he'll have known that noise was going on there.
[00:33:03]  I mean, I think it's one of the sadnesses about.
[00:33:05]  No, it is.
[00:33:06]  We'll come to that.
[00:33:06]  But Ben, were you even aware, Ben, that that was playing behind you or not?
[00:33:09]  Or were you so in the zone you were oblivious?
[00:33:11]  I could hear it, but I didn't know what you could hear, so I think you've just got to keep going.
[00:33:16]  Okay, but just to clarify, you haven't lost that loving feeling.
[00:33:21]  No, no, I'm agnostic as to the loving feeling that I may or may not have lost.
[00:33:29]  Ben Napalami, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
[00:33:32]  I appreciate it.
[00:33:34]  On that point, Adam, these absolute cretins, led by Steve and his stupid loud hair, I think they're really damaging actually to the public perception of our political system.
[00:33:46]  No, I couldn't agree more.
[00:33:47]  Every time you have a serious interview, you get morons showing.
[00:33:51]  Of course, during Brexit, we actually had MPs on both sides being jostled by some of the demonstrators.
[00:33:56]  I mean, I'm so relieved to be here rather than actually down there.
[00:33:59]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:33:59]  Because it does come to the point sometimes where you can't actually hear yourself speak.
[00:34:04]  And of course, it affects what you can say to the viewers.
[00:34:07]  I mean, we want to hear from a former Conservative vice chairman.
[00:34:10]  All our viewers want to hear that.
[00:34:12]  And I think it's very destructive.
[00:34:13]  The government supposedly has just brought in new legislation to deal with noisy demonstrations.
[00:34:20]  But I know from being down in Westminster, they are very, very reluctant to intervene against people who are lunatics.
[00:34:28]  I mean, my favourite one is the defrocked Irish priest who wears a kilt and capers to recorded music.
[00:34:34]  Quite what that's got to do with British politics.
[00:34:36]  I don't know.
[00:34:37]  He didn't strike me, frankly, as though he was really on it, actually, in terms of the gravity of the situation we're in and the need for urgency and speed.
[00:34:45]  I'm just picking up on Twitter.
[00:34:46]  The 1922 Committee of Working Plans to whittle down the leadership to the final two by July the 21st.
[00:34:52]  It's July the 7th.
[00:34:54]  I mean, that's absurd.
[00:34:55]  That's two weeks away, followed by a six-week hustings process.
[00:35:00]  So we're talking about at least eight or nine weeks before we've got a new Conservative leader, a new Prime Minister, when they think that it's okay for Boris Johnson to remain in number two.
[00:35:13]  Esther, welcome.
[00:35:14]  Thank you for racing here.
[00:35:15]  I know it's been an adventurous trip for you.
[00:35:17]  Yeah.
[00:35:17]  Where you were robing in the back of your cab.
[00:35:19]  I don't even want to go.
[00:35:23]  Let me ask you about your reaction, first of all, to Boris's resignation speech.
[00:35:28]  What did you make of it?
[00:35:29]  I was very disappointed because, I mean, it's nothing out of the ordinary, but I was hoping he would say, this has happened because it's my fault.
[00:35:36]  This is something I've done.
[00:35:37]  And there was no sort of personal responsibility there, which I suppose we're not surprised.
[00:35:42]  Everyone knows Boris's ego is as large as Westminster itself.
[00:35:44]  But I just thought, you know.
[00:35:45]  And his lack of accountability.
[00:35:47]  If you can blame somebody else, he will.
[00:35:49]  He will.
[00:35:49]  But, you know.
[00:35:49]  We did heard mentality.
[00:35:51]  And his own conservatives, right?
[00:35:53]  You know, is this how you want to leave, really?
[00:35:55]  You know, the first speech is that.
[00:35:56]  We don't want to leave.
[00:35:57]  Yeah, true.
[00:35:58]  But the first way you're addressing the public.
[00:35:59]  Dominic Cummings has been tweeting away like the vengeful ex-lover that he is.
[00:36:04]  But he makes some interesting points.
[00:36:05]  He says, you know, if you let this guy stay another day, total carnage is going to erupt.
[00:36:11]  He can't be trusted to do anything.
[00:36:13]  But if he says what's going to happen, so all the ministers that have resigned are going to come back and then look him in the eye and still be sort of subordinate to him.
[00:36:19]  That's absolutely absurd.
[00:36:20]  That's not even possible.
[00:36:21]  It's absurd.
[00:36:21]  And in his speech, he actually referred to that party when he actually meant my party, the Conservative Party.
[00:36:27]  Not much love and loyalty.
[00:36:28]  He's not a team player, though.
[00:36:29]  He's a complete narcissist.
[00:36:31]  And this shows.
[00:36:31]  But I think the Conservatives, you know, the Conservative Party is supposed to be about duty.
[00:36:35]  Where is your sense of duty when you're making the country wait eight weeks for a new leader?
[00:36:39]  And in the interim, we have this guy who just refuses to go still.
[00:36:43]  Well, I predict it will have to change.
[00:36:46]  I don't think it's acceptable.
[00:36:48]  And I think you're absolutely right that what happens when you use the party leader is the party turns in on itself and gets terribly interested in its rules and its canvassing and its hustings and its status, which is fine when they're in opposition.
[00:37:00]  But when they're in government, not sorry, you know, there's a war raging in Europe.
[00:37:05]  There's a financial crisis the like of which none of us have ever seen before.
[00:37:09]  And it's going to get worse before it gets better.
[00:37:11]  You know, you've got a pandemic that's now flaring up again with another variant going crazy.
[00:37:17]  The idea that we've got this kind of lame government run by a rudderless leader who's already said, I'm going, and none of his cabinet ministers trust him.
[00:37:27]  I just find it utterly and just one other sort of selfish aspect of this is the appointing of this zombie cabinet of new members.
[00:37:35]  Because, you know, if you've come in as Northern Ireland Secretary, for example, the notion that you can get your grip of what's going on in Northern Ireland in the six weeks or nine weeks you're going to be in the job is ridiculous.
[00:37:45]  And he could, they may not have been brilliant, but he could have brought back the residue.
[00:37:49]  Well, the most famous person on that list we're looking at now is Nadine Doris.
[00:37:53]  When she's the front woman for the cabinet, you know, whatever the question is, we got the wrong answer.

=== Appointing A Rudderless Cabinet (10:28) ===

[00:37:58]  But he could have brought back the resignees.
[00:38:00]  He didn't.
[00:38:00]  He didn't out of spite.
[00:38:02]  And so people with experience are being excluded.
[00:38:05]  Whereas a caretaker could have done exactly that.
[00:38:07]  Dominic Raab has deputy.
[00:38:08]  Bring them all back while we all reset.
[00:38:11]  Everybody's back in their positions.
[00:38:13]  We will carry on and we'll have a rapid election.
[00:38:15]  Well, I mean, this goes further to destroy the Conservative Party's reputation.
[00:38:18]  That has nothing to do with Boris because this is all in the Conservatives' hands.
[00:38:21]  They could say, you're going today.
[00:38:22]  Dominic Raab is going to do this.
[00:38:24]  And all those ministers that resigned because Boris is literally toxic are going to come back.
[00:38:28]  And things are going to run until we make sense of this.
[00:38:30]  That's what a responsible Conservative Party should do.
[00:38:32]  Johnson didn't do that until he made his announcement he was still Prime Minister and he used his power to put in these quizzes.
[00:38:38]  They're important.
[00:38:40]  He had the power of appointment.
[00:38:41]  People went along with it.
[00:38:42]  And there are important pieces of legislation going through the Houses of Parliament today, next week, that are now completely and utterly rudderless.
[00:38:50]  With new ministers coming in who've not a clue, frankly, what they're doing.
[00:38:54]  What happens if Vladimir Putin decides to suddenly be aggressive towards the United Kingdom?
[00:38:59]  Is it down to Boris Johnson now, the man who's resigned, who's lost the confidence of most of his cabinet?
[00:39:05]  Is he the one that makes the decision about the security of his country?
[00:39:08]  Well, it should be said that Ben Wallace, he's actually the only reason why he didn't resign.
[00:39:15]  But he ultimately wouldn't make the final decision.
[00:39:17]  So there is continuity there.
[00:39:19]  And also, I think the security minister stayed on, the Home Secretary stayed on as well.
[00:39:22]  But they would not be the ultimate arbiter of that kind of decision.
[00:39:25]  It would be Boris Johnson.
[00:39:26]  They wouldn't be the ones pressing the button, no.
[00:39:28]  Let's go to Tall TV star Tom Newton Dunn is with the Suns.
[00:39:32]  Well, one of the many stars, obviously, is with the Sun's political economist, Trevor Kavanagh.
[00:39:37]  They're down in Westminster.
[00:39:38]  Take it away, guys.
[00:39:42]  Thank you, Piers.
[00:39:43]  I'm indeed with Trevor Kavanagh.
[00:39:44]  Now, Trevor is the Associate Editor of The Sun.
[00:39:46]  He was the Sun's political editor.
[00:39:48]  A job I might have some familiarity with a few years ago.
[00:39:51]  Now, Trevor came onto our programme, the news desk, on Tuesday night, just after Sajid Jabid and Rishi Sunak's resignations to the government, which was, I suppose, the immediate tipping point that has put Boris Johnson out of office.
[00:40:05]  And Trevor immediately, I think practically the first commentator there was, said, that is it, the time is up.
[00:40:10]  Boris Johnson must go.
[00:40:12]  So Trevor is indeed a clairvoyance, because you could say he's now predicting events as he did when he politically edited the Sun.
[00:40:18]  You'll talk to Trevor about Boris Johnson's resignation speech about half past 12 today.
[00:40:23]  Very, very big moment in British political history, as these speeches always are.
[00:40:27]  First, we're just going to play you a bit of that that we thought was most interesting.
[00:40:31]  And in the last few days, I've tried to persuade my colleagues that it would be eccentric to change governments when we're delivering so much and when we have such a vast mandate and when we're actually only a handful of points behind in the polls, even in midterm after quite a few months of pretty relentless sledging and when the economic scene is so difficult domestically and internationally.
[00:40:55]  And I regret not to have been successful in those arguments and of course it's painful not to be able to see through so many ideas and projects myself.
[00:41:07]  But as we've seen at Westminster, the herd instinct is powerful.
[00:41:11]  When the herd moves, it moves.
[00:41:15]  Well, when the herd moves, it moves.
[00:41:17]  Trevor, you've just heard it again.
[00:41:19]  You heard it at lunchtime today.
[00:41:21]  Your thoughts?
[00:41:21]  It was very lacking in any contrition whatsoever.
[00:41:25]  You won't hear any contrition from Boris Johnson on this at all.
[00:41:28]  I think that actually it was a fairly well crafted and delivered speech.
[00:41:32]  I think it depends on what your viewpoint of Boris is, whether you're a fan or a critic, but I thought it was rather well done.
[00:41:38]  And he did it almost as if he was doing it off the top of his head.
[00:41:42]  He had a script, but he didn't read it very much.
[00:41:45]  And I think it will begin to have a resonance with those voters who voted particularly for Boris Johnson because of Brexit.
[00:41:52]  So his main argument to all his MPs, but also to the rest of the country, was, look, I should still be here.
[00:41:57]  There's no reason I'm out of this job.
[00:41:59]  The only reason I'm out of this job is because the herd panics.
[00:42:02]  And by the herd, he means his Tory MPs, his ministers, and they all jumped on the same bandwagon and said, do you know what, boss, you've got to go.
[00:42:09]  Now, you don't think he's right in that.
[00:42:11]  You think he had to go from the moment his authority completely disappeared.
[00:42:15]  So who is right, Trevor Kavanaugh or Boris Johnson?
[00:42:18]  I think he was on his way out long ago with the own Patterson resignation and the by-election that followed.
[00:42:24]  Events then unfolded which were all uniformly against Boris's judgment, his credibility, his honesty.
[00:42:30]  And frankly, I think he's tilting at Windwells by suggesting that he could carry on in any way, shape or form, even as a transitory prime minister.
[00:42:39]  I think he's got to go.
[00:42:39]  He's got to go now.
[00:42:40]  And I think he's got Dominic Raab, his deputy prime minister, sitting here ready to take the helm.
[00:42:46]  He says he's got to go now.
[00:42:48]  He doesn't want to go now.
[00:42:48]  He wants to go September.
[00:42:49]  That debate is hugely active at the moment.
[00:42:51]  It's a huge, unresolved issue.
[00:42:53]  How is he going to go now?
[00:42:54]  Because he ain't going quietly.
[00:42:56]  Well, no, he isn't.
[00:42:57]  I think he's going to have to be forced out.
[00:42:59]  But he's going to have to be told by the party that he's got to go.
[00:43:02]  And if necessary, they've got to change the rules so that they can actually lever him out of that office.
[00:43:07]  But as I say, I think that this is still a huge problem for the Tory Party running into the future.
[00:43:13]  I think we're going to see Sellers' remorse, which I predicted some time ago.
[00:43:16]  Once Boris has gone, all his low crimes and misdemeanours are going to be washed away.
[00:43:21]  The thing that will be remembered is the election victory, Brexit, COVID, and the way of his departure, which will be seen as a victory for Romainers.
[00:43:34]  Okay, victory for Romainers.
[00:43:35]  How you have it, Piers.
[00:43:36]  John Major, the former Conservative Prime Minister earlier today, also called for a change in the rules so Boris Johnson should get out.
[00:43:42]  It is the first time in human history that I'm aware of that Trevor Kavanagh agrees with John Major.
[00:43:49]  That's a terrible company to come.
[00:43:53]  Here's a story I want to talk about with my panel.
[00:43:56]  This is from Pippa Crary, who's broken many great stories for Daily Mirror throughout the Johnson final years.
[00:44:03]  Headline, Boris Johnson and wife Carrie to host Lavish Checkers wedding party while he clings on.
[00:44:09]  So apparently they've got this lavish bash planned in July, so presumably July the 30th.
[00:44:15]  So this is three weeks away.
[00:44:17]  They've already sent the invitations out and the word is that one of the reasons Boris Johnson wants to cling on and stay on in power for as long as possible is so we can have this big wedding bash at Checkers.
[00:44:29]  Adam Bolton.
[00:44:30]  Well I think we've seen before after people have left office that they've been lent accommodation grace and favours.
[00:44:37]  Why should he be given a free wedding at Checkers?
[00:44:39]  Well, you know, if it gets rid of him, I would go for that.
[00:44:44]  But he certainly should.
[00:44:45]  I don't think British taxpayers should be British taxpayers don't pay for chequers.
[00:44:49]  Perennials.
[00:44:50]  It's a charity.
[00:44:51]  No, they don't.
[00:44:52]  They pay for them.
[00:44:53]  Is it really not a penny?
[00:44:54]  No, it's a charitable thing.
[00:44:55]  I know that they have to pay for their meals and things.
[00:44:57]  I thought things like cleaning and all that kind of stuff.
[00:44:59]  It's not like cheating.
[00:45:01]  This is not British government.
[00:45:03]  It's actually an independent trust which raises funds.
[00:45:06]  And we know Boris Johnson has been rattling the tin at Donus.
[00:45:11]  You get more contributions than you can.
[00:45:12]  You could easily sort that out.
[00:45:13]  I mean, it's just arranging that.
[00:45:14]  It's quite clear that none of us have had the invitation, which obviously is very different.
[00:45:18]  But that's ridiculous.
[00:45:21]  It's not a reason to keep it.
[00:45:23]  The worrying thing is, it has a real ring of truth to it.
[00:45:25]  Yes.
[00:45:25]  Given how he has to do it.
[00:45:27]  This is the man who was planning a 150,000 quid treehouse.
[00:45:30]  I mean, that is utterly shameless.
[00:45:32]  And you know Carrie Johnson's tastes as well.
[00:45:34]  I mean, a taste in wallpaper enough is enough to bankrupt any man.
[00:45:37]  Well, a taste in men is pretty dubious.
[00:45:39]  What are they going to do with the wallpaper?
[00:45:42]  She's about to marry Boris Johnson.
[00:45:44]  Maybe they need eight to ten weeks to get the wallpaper off the wall.
[00:45:47]  I mean, we're sort of laughing about it, but I think a lot of mirror readers in particular, having run that paper for longer, they would be incensed at the idea that this would play any part in Boris Johnson's thinking.
[00:45:57]  I better hang on a bit.
[00:45:58]  There's like a news checker.
[00:45:59]  I'd tell you he'll be laughing at it.
[00:46:00]  President Macron and Joe Biden and all the others would just be absolutely shocked that Britain could get itself in this sort of mess.
[00:46:08]  I mean, the other person I think you will be laughing most about this is Vladimir Putin, who is looking at total turmoil in Britain.
[00:46:15]  He's looking at a pretty rudderless America right now with Biden at shocking new approval rating levels.
[00:46:21]  And he's probably thinking, great, right when I want them to, the West is basically losing its mind.
[00:46:26]  And Zelensky has expressed sadness at Boris.
[00:46:29]  Washtazelinsky was very heartfelt.
[00:46:31]  And if you're Zelensky, you probably think Boris is a hero because he was probably the most vocal of all the European leaders and certainly the first out of the traps to help him.
[00:46:40]  The cynic in me says that Boris saw very early on, because he loves Churchill and know that Churchill got out of his hole by basically becoming a war hero.
[00:46:50]  And Boris thought, great, I've got a...
[00:46:52]  Look, I know I'm being cynical, and I've got no reason to believe this is true, but I wouldn't put it past Boris to have basically used the Ukraine vehicle, if you like, as a way to try and get above the fray of the scandal.
[00:47:04]  It's a batter, isn't it?
[00:47:05]  Yeah, I mean, it was probably the best thing he said in his speech today, actually, was reference that whatever happens, the United Kingdom will still stand full square, four square, with Ukraine and President Zelensky.
[00:47:16]  And I think Ben Wallace has reiterated that.
[00:47:19]  That's the confidence that President Zelensky should draw: actually, the durability and I think the strength of Ben Wallace and the people around him.
[00:47:28]  That's the real comfort that the Ukrainian leadership.
[00:47:31]  Let me go to Kate McCann, the talk to the political editor, who's down in Westminster there.
[00:47:36]  Kate, you're very good at picking up on the old jungle drums.
[00:47:40]  Is there any real concerted move to try and get Boris Johnson out of Downing Street immediately, as someone like John Majors called for?
[00:47:52]  So there is a move, but whether or not it's going to go anywhere is another question.
[00:47:56]  I think what we saw happen earlier today was Dominic Raab came out and said that he will not run for the leadership.
[00:48:02]  And that means that he is in position, if it were to happen in his favour, to be the interim Prime Minister.
[00:48:07]  And just at the same time that he said that, there were a couple of MPs who then texted me pretty much instantly with very similar on-the-record statements saying we would support Dominic Raab being the interim leader if we could find a way to move Boris Johnson on.
[00:48:21]  We don't think that he should continue.
[00:48:23]  So yes, there is an effort, but the question is whether it goes anywhere.

=== Breaking News On Raab (02:16) ===

[00:48:26]  Because as we were saying before, there are constitutional reasons why the Prime Minister pretty much has the right to stay in Downing Street.
[00:48:33]  Most other Prime Ministers have done it.
[00:48:35]  It would cause quite a difficult process for the Queen to try and remove him.
[00:48:40]  And many here in Westminster just don't see how that ultimately happens.
[00:48:43]  And we know from number 10 today, Boris Johnson intends to stay until this contest is run, which could well be September.
[00:48:49]  How, by the way, did you get the fancy gig of being out in the garden and streaming sunshine and I get stuck in here?
[00:48:57]  I think the bigger question Piers is why on earth would anybody come down here on a day like today in a black jumper and black trousers and have to stand in full sunshine?
[00:49:07]  I'm not sure I've got the better end of the deal here.
[00:49:09]  Are you in funereal black because of mourning for Boris or what's the deal?
[00:49:14]  No, I've got my pink coat for later so I'll swap it out and then I'll be much brighter.
[00:49:18]  It's unintentional.
[00:49:20]  I think you need to be kind of mid-range, don't you?
[00:49:22]  Because if you look like you're celebratory too much, you'll get hammered for that.
[00:49:25]  At the moment, you look like you're basically attending.
[00:49:27]  Send me something down here.
[00:49:30]  Send me something down here and I'll wear it.
[00:49:31]  That could be very dangerous.
[00:49:33]  Well, I thought you did very well with that MP who I've no idea who he is.
[00:49:36]  What's his name?
[00:49:36]  Dunderhead.
[00:49:37]  What was his name?
[00:49:37]  Dunderhead?
[00:49:39]  Dudderidge.
[00:49:40]  James Dudderidge, you don't want to reignite that one.
[00:49:42]  I want to get him and his wife on.
[00:49:44]  But you did brilliantly as the chaos was unfurling.
[00:49:46]  That's quite keen.
[00:49:47]  It was that wonderful moment when I suddenly realised he could actually hear me giving you notes.
[00:49:51]  That was a priceless moment.
[00:49:54]  Kate, stay with us.
[00:49:55]  We're going to be back with you.
[00:49:56]  We've got hours and hours.
[00:49:58]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:49:58]  We've got hours of each other's company tonight.
[00:50:00]  Looking forward to it.
[00:50:01]  And we'll have breaking news throughout the next few hours on this historic day for the United Kingdom where Boris Johnson has resigned and all hell is breaking loose.
[00:50:11]  Momentous day in British politics, the United Kingdom has an important vacancy.
[00:50:15]  Good news, the incumbent thinks we'll have no problems filling it.
[00:50:18]  I know that there will be many people who are relieved and perhaps quite a few who will also be disappointed.
[00:50:26]  And I want you to know how sad I am to be giving up the best job in the world.
[00:50:34]  Well, if you're that sad, you should have told less lies, Boris, and you might have kept the best job in the world.
[00:50:39]  That's it from me.
[00:50:40]  Whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored.
[00:50:42]  Good night.