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June 30, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
45:42
20220630_piers-morgan-uncensored-exclusive-interview-with-b
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Explosive Interview With Bernie Eccleston 00:04:07
I'm Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Tonight, a prime-time exclusive.
They were the shocking comments that stunned the world.
Billionaire Formula One founder Bernie Eccleston defending Vladimir Putin.
I'd still take a bullet for him.
I'd rather it didn't hurt, but if he does, I'd still take a bullet.
Because he's a first-class person and what he's doing is something that he believed was the right thing he was doing for Russia.
Tonight, one of the most controversial men in world sport responds to the scandal that's rippled across the world after those words.
Bernie Eccleston goes one-on-one with me in an explosive, jaw-dropping interview in which he attempts to explain what he said and why he said it.
Well, good evening.
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Tonight, a gripping incendiary interview with one of the most powerful figures in the history of world sport, Formula One founder Bernie Eccleston.
This weekend should have been about the British Grand Prix at Silverstone, one of the most prestigious events of the year and the sport that he created.
Instead, this weekend's racing has been eclipsed by two explosive scandals centered around one person, him.
First, it emerged that former world champion Nelson Piquet had racially abused British superstar Lewis Hamilton, branding him the N-word several times in a podcast.
Piquet has now apologised, but denied the term he used was racist, even though it was racist.
Well, astonishingly, in an interview with my old TV show Good Morning Britain this morning, Bernie Eccleston defended Piquet.
And then in comments which sparked a global furore, he then defended Russian dictator Vladimir Putin.
Tonight, on Uncensored, in a primetime exclusive, Bernie Eccleston responds to all the heat.
When you say you don't think Vladimir Putin meant to wage this war, it just sounds to me shockingly naive at best.
I'm not trying to defend him in any shape or form.
Why would you say that you would still take a bullet for Vladimir Putin?
It's an expression.
When did you last speak to him?
I'm not going to answer that.
You're defending Nelson Piquet for calling him the N-word, which you say should be treated like somebody calling you a bit undersized.
It's terribly rude to say somebody is underscored or is a fat person.
You genuinely think that there is some equivalence between calling a black person the N-word and saying that you're short.
If, for example, they're black and they're saying, or if you're fat, I suppose it's the same sort of feeling.
It's not, though, is it?
What is your response to what Lewis Hamilton said, Bernie?
Complete load of rubbish.
It's no surprise to me, Bernie.
Your comments this morning cause outrage.
And I think when people watch our interview, they're going to feel more outrage.
You're trying to set me up, which you're not successful in doing.
Well, Eccleston is no longer running Formula One, but his comments matter.
He wields massive global influence.
People around the world pay attention to what he says.
And after this interview, I suspect they'll be paying a lot more attention.
He's had the whole day to reflect on the comments he made about President Putin this morning and about Lewis Hamilton being called the N-word.
I started by asking, if you stood by, what he said about the Russian dictator.
Well, I'm joined now by Bernie Eccleston.
Bernie, good evening to you.
Good evening to you.
Bernie, I've known you a long time.
You've never been one to hide your thoughts.
You've always been a straight talker.
But now you've had a few hours to see how your comments about Vladimir Putin and about Nelson Piquet and his racist comments, how they've played out in the public arena.
Do you have any regrets?
Well, I meant just wonder whether you whether you regret the way you worded some of the things you said.
I forgot what I said, actually.
Well, okay, I'll remind you.
You said that whatever I said, I meant.
Defending Putin Amidst War Crimes 00:16:04
So good or bad.
Well, let me remind you what you said.
So you said about Vladimir Putin, I would still take a bullet for him.
I'd rather it didn't hurt, but I would still take a bullet because he's a first-class person.
And what he's doing is something he believed was the right thing.
Yeah, I mean, when I say I take a bullet, I mean, I'm quite sure it's an expression you could and have used in your life.
It's an expression.
I'd stand behind it.
I mean, the problem with that.
Sorry, go on, Bernie.
No, he's, as far as I'm concerned, he's a good guy.
He's never done anything that I would feel he's not the right guy to be talking to.
I mean, you're perfectly entitled to your view about Putin from the dealings you've had with him.
And obviously, you started the Russian Grand Prix, and I understand that.
And you've had a lot of dealings with him.
You're perfectly entitled to that.
I think the problem that people have with your comments today, Bernie, is that they are highly inflammatory, given that Putin is currently waging a monstrous illegal war in Ukraine, slaughtering thousands of innocent people who are literally getting a bullet from Vladimir Putin.
And I think that's terrible.
I think when all this started, it wasn't what he thought was going to happen.
I think he thought it was going to be a four-day sort of threat and then big discussions and they get things sorted out.
I don't think he believed what is happening would happen.
I think the problem that people have, Bernie, is that you're entitled to your personal opinion about it.
But when you say, as you just did, you don't think Vladimir Putin meant to wage this war, it just sounds to me shockingly naive at best.
And I can understand why many people are offended.
You're not a stupid man, but everyone can see what Putin has done here.
He's invaded a sovereign country, a democratic sovereign country.
He's carried on now waging this war for months and months.
He's slaughtered thousands of innocent mothers, children, people in Ukraine.
Only two days ago, he attacked a supermarket with a thousand civilians inside it.
The idea that this is something he didn't really mean to do, I think, is for the birds.
Well, I wonder if I don't, I'm not trying to defend him in any shape or form because what's actually happened is quite terrible.
Simple as that.
Should have never, ever, ever happened.
And I think if people had thought about it, a friend from the Ukraine and him and thought or met and discussed it, it wouldn't have happened because he's not an idiot and he wouldn't have gone into this expecting what's happened.
I think he thought he'd sort of move in and then there'd be a discussion when they saw how strong it was.
I mean, again, I would say to you, Bernie, all the evidence suggests, Bernie, that he has planned this meticulously for a very long time.
All his activity in Crimea and Georgia previously, it's all been leading up to this.
He wants to restore the power of the Soviet Union and he doesn't care what it takes to do it.
And he's basically waging a genocide in Ukraine.
And that's why people found your comments, I think, this morning on Good Morning Britain so tone deaf and offensive.
Well, I think if I was listening to myself in the way you've sort of put things, I would feel the same.
But If he planned to do this, I think it's disgusting and I'm very disappointed in him.
Why would you say, given what we've been seeing happening in Ukraine, why would you say that you would still take a bullet for Vladimir Putin, given that he's putting bullets into thousands of innocent people's heads?
That is an expression.
I'd take a bullet for somebody.
I mean, I'd stand behind him for what it was.
I genuinely, I don't know what he had in mind.
I hope he also didn't have in mind what's actually happened.
And I'd be surprised if he did.
I honestly believe he sort of marched in there thinking it's going to be a surrender.
White flag was going to go up and that was it.
But Bernie, he has no right to do that.
He has no right to invade a democratic sovereign country.
This is a European country, Ukraine.
With a sovereign, it's a sovereign democratic country.
It's not someone you can just invade because you feel like it.
I don't think he sort of felt like it.
I mean, have America moved into different countries where they're not really welcome?
Well, we could play what a battery.
I was one of the people that led the campaign against the Iraq war for that very reason.
So we can talk about other countries.
I think that what people have been shocked by today, Bernie, is they've seen you come up on television.
And at a time when Putin is at his most murderous and barbaric, you know, bombing supermarkets, you appear on television and act as his defender, as his supporter, to the extent that you would take a bullet for him.
And whatever you meant by that phrase, I think it's caused huge offense.
I just wonder whether on reflection, you wish you hadn't been quite so supportive.
Maybe you do, maybe you don't regret it.
I don't regret my feeling for him that he's not the person that is being portrayed.
In fact, in fairness, nobody's portraying him at all.
They're just showing up exactly what is happening and saying he's the one that's made it happen.
Well, I mean, you also go on to attack President Zelensky, who you sort of sneer at him saying he used to be a comedian.
I think he wants to continue that profession as a comedian.
What has been comedic about Zelensky's leadership?
If, you know, all he's done is try to stand up for his country and his people.
There's nothing comedic about it, is there?
Well, there's ways been acting.
I mean, I think he's looking for a bit of publicity, whereas nobody had ever heard of him before.
Now he's talking to the president of the United States and everybody else and not just talking to them, making sure he's speaking to them when it's being televised and broadcast worldwide.
But you genuinely think Zelensky is doing all this for self-publicity.
I don't think he's doing it for self-publicity.
I was doing it because he doesn't have any choice.
The only choice he had was before it started, but to try to contact Putin and have a discussion with him.
But why should he do that?
He's the leader of a democratic country.
He's elected president in a democracy.
Why should he have to call a dictator in Russia to try and ward off his troops?
Why should he do that?
Well, before the troops went in, he could have done that.
And I suppose if he knew what was going to happen, that would have been the right thing to do, wouldn't it?
No, I don't think it would have been.
The right thing to do is to stand up for your sovereign democratic country and your people.
I think Zelensky's shown unbelievable, inspiring leadership.
What he said is, no, you will not invade us.
You will not destroy our cities.
You will not raise them to the ground with your bombers.
You will not attack our supermarkets, our mothers, our children, our maternity units.
And he stood there in the middle of it.
He hasn't left the country, which many leaders could have done in his position.
He stood there and he's fought with his people.
I can't think of a more outstanding example of heroic, courageous leadership, frankly.
That's what you think.
Yeah, it is what I think.
That's how you've seen it.
I don't understand why you would see it any other way, Bernie.
But simply, he could have stopped it himself, couldn't he?
I think if I wanted, if this had happened, I was there and I wanted to protect my people, I'd have got hold of Putin and said, listen, we've got to stop this.
And what would you have done?
Surrendered?
I'd have found a very dignified way to do that, because that's in fact probably what will have to happen anyway.
What is the dignified way to end this then?
To end this, they should talk to each other.
What about?
About what's happening.
Well, we know what's happened.
Putin's invaded Ukraine and has started killing every Ukrainian he can find.
I mean, what's there to talk about?
If you're the president of Ukraine, what do you talk about with Vladimir Putin other than telling him, get your tanks off my lawn?
Maybe that would be a good start.
Well, he keeps saying this in public, Zelensky.
He's made it very clear he wants Russia to stop attacking his people, which seems to me a pretty reasonable thing for a president of Ukraine to say right now.
He said on television, yeah?
Has he said it to Putin?
Well, what's the difference?
Putin knows what he's doing.
A little bit different if you're talking face to face with somebody who's saying, no, listen, let's stop all this nonsense.
A lot of people are being killed because of this.
Let's stop it.
Well, coming up, he says Putin's a good guy and you take a bullet for him.
But how close is the former Formula One boss to the Russian tyrant?
I'll ask him that next.
When did you last speak to him?
I'm not going to answer that.
Welcome back to Biz Book.
I said to the prime time exclusive billionaire Formula One founder, Bernie Eccleston.
We've heard what he just said about Russian tyrant Vladimir Putin, that he's apparently a good guy and he'd even take a bullet for him.
So how does he feel about him as a person?
When did you last speak to him?
You've said about Putin that you trust him, that he always delivers on his word.
Is that what you think of him?
Yeah.
When did you last speak to him?
I'm not going to answer that.
But was it during the war?
During the war.
I haven't spoken to him since his conflict started.
Right.
And if you did speak to him, what would you say to him now?
I wouldn't be able to give him any instructions and I wouldn't want to.
I'd simply say, have you given any thought to exactly what's happening from when you invaded, if that's the correct word, to say Ukraine?
I mean, he's saying he didn't invade, didn't he?
He's saying it's a military operation.
But you know that's complete nonsense, Bernie, don't you?
He obviously invaded Ukraine.
We all saw it.
We've seen him.
We've seen what he's done.
But I'm saying that's what he says.
Again, it comes back to why would you believe that then?
You seem to believe everything he says.
It's like, why?
His actions clearly speak to the complete opposite of what he's saying.
Did you hear me say I believed it?
You said that you trust him and you take him at his word.
No, did I say I believed it?
Well, do you believe him?
No.
Okay, so you don't believe.
All right.
Well, that's progress, I think, about this.
You don't believe him when he says that it was an operation.
You do believe he waged war deliberately.
No, I don't think he waged war deliberately, but I think he threatened and used his troops on the borders to threaten that they should start talking.
Bernie, as someone who's a grandfather, a father, you know, and I know you're a loving family man, when you see children being blown to pieces, when you see maternity units with pregnant mothers being deliberately attacked, when you see refugees being targeted as they try and flee, when you see millions of people losing their homes, having to leave the country, when you see all this,
does not a part of you think, I got it wrong about Putin?
Actually, he is a monster.
I don't think I'd say that.
I actually remember the last war, and I'm sure you do as well.
These things happened here when England was sort of more or less wanted to be invaded.
These things happen in war.
It's not a nice thing to happen.
And you know, as well as anybody else, in the end, after a war, everyone's good friends.
It's like a boxing match.
After the boxing match, everybody's loving each other.
I don't think there's much chance of people.
I don't think there's much chance, Bernie, of people being good friends with Vladimir Putin after this.
The entire international community is now pretty much agreed, with the exception of some of his allies, that what he's done is completely reprehensible and flies in the face of all international law.
How many Russians were there in Ukraine when he had invaded?
Well, they're not.
They're Ukrainians.
Some of them speak Russian, but they're Ukrainians.
They were Russians.
Well, they're not, though, are they?
They're Ukrainians.
They were all Russian people that just sounded like Putin, Bernie, in the sense that what Putin wants to do, he wants to restore the Soviet Union and pretend it was never broken up and these countries didn't go off and become democratic countries.
But that's what they did.
You can't undo it.
It'd be like the British Empire suddenly being restored and just assuming that history is irrelevant and that countries haven't moved on, haven't become independent.
That is a very nice way to put it, the way you put it.
And it's probably the truth.
And I'm quite sure if you asked him, he would say what has happened was a mistake.
Yeah, but it's more than just a mistake.
It's a mistake that costs, has cost an unbelievable amount of innocent lives being taken.
Not only innocent lives, assume he captured completely Ukraine.
What has he captured?
A country that's been destroyed.
Right.
So it seems to me, Bernie, you understand what's really going on here.
And that makes your stoic defense of Putin right now so baffling to people.
You know, you're one of the most powerful figures in world sport in my lifetime.
You have huge influence.
Stuff that you say carries enormous weight, as you can see from the reaction to what you said.
I just find it completely baffling that you would think this is the right moment to say Vladimir Putin is a first-class person.
As far as I'm concerned, he was.
Right, so is he now?
I'm a little disappointed in the actions that have been taken.
Why Lewis Hamilton Must Speak Up 00:10:54
What was the alternative?
Either he pulls out or the other people surrender.
Well, actually, the alternative is you don't invade sovereign countries illegally and kill everybody.
And to say you're a little disappointed by a murderous genocidal rampage, again, your use of language, Bernie, is extraordinary.
A little disappointed that he's murdering innocent people every single day, all day long.
No, I'm disappointed in what has happened because I would have never believed it would happen under his regime.
Could it be that Vladimir Putin has pulled the wool over your eyes, Bernie?
He's not the person you thought he was.
That actually he's not this Mr. Trustworthy guy, that actually he's a duplicitous dictator.
And now we're seeing the absolute reality of what Putin's about.
Well, I suppose looking at what's happened, you could sum it up in that way.
So if that is the case, and you concede that is the case, why would you still take a bullet for him?
There was an expression I said I would.
It started, it wasn't something I said to date for the first time.
No, I know you said it before.
You said before you'd stand in front of a machine gun for Vladimir Putin.
And when you said that, that was before the Ukraine war.
I think what's upset people so much is you're saying it today, when we're months and months into this war and the slaughter and misery has been unrelenting for the Ukrainian people.
And there's you, Bernie Eccleston, one of the most famous figures in world sport, basically giving an emphatic endorsement to Vladimir Putin, saying he's a first-class person.
You completely trust him and you take a bullet for him.
You must understand why that's caused such offense.
What I'm saying, I'm saying what I believe.
Nothing to do with any sport or anything that I represent.
This is my personal feeling about Putin.
Not a feeling many will share, I'm sure, or coming up more in my primetime exclusive interview with the formula Formula One boss, Bernie Eccleston, including shocking comments about the N-word attacks on Lewis Hamilton, in which Eccleston says, well, it's like someone saying he is too short.
You genuinely think that there is some equivalence between calling a black person the N-word and saying that you're short, for example.
Well, if, for example, they're black and they're saying, oh, if you're fat, I suppose, it's the same sort of feeling.
Well, welcome back.
Formula One mogul Bernie Eccleston made headlines around the world today by defending Russian dictator Vladimir Putin.
And we just heard him pretty much double down on that.
But he also shockingly defended former world champion Nelson Piquet for racially abusing Lewis Hamilton, the British superstar driver, calling him the N-word twice in a podcast.
Well, Hamilton today dismissed them both as irrelevant old men.
The other thing that you said today, which caused a lot of upset to people, was you defended Nelson Piquet, the former Formula One legendary driver, who used the N-word in a podcast to talk about Lewis Hamilton in a derogatory way.
And I want to display you what Lewis Hamilton has said about this and in relation to your comments.
We should not be giving these people a platform.
These old voices are, you know, whether they're subconscious or consciously do not agree that people like me, for example, should be in a sport like this, do not agree women should be here.
It's just discrimination is not something we should be projecting and promoting and given a platform to create and divide people.
You know, we're all the same and it is not helpful, the comments that we're seeing from these people.
And I don't think, you know, the last couple of weeks, I don't think the day has gone by where there's not been someone from some of the older that have not really been in our sport or relevant in our sport for decades, trying to saying negative things and trying to bring me down.
But I'm still here.
I'm still standing strong.
What is your response to what Lewis Hamilton said, Bernie?
Complete load of rubbish.
Really?
Really?
Why would you say that?
Because nobody's, I don't, if he's referring to me, it's nothing I've done.
He should even think a little bit.
His father and myself were talking about going into business a little while ago.
I've got nothing in the world to do.
I'm not racist, quite the opposite, actually.
And to say things like that is completely crazy.
You say that, but you've defended Nelson Piquet for using the N-word to describe Hamilton personally in a derogatory way.
It's hard to imagine a more racist thing for somebody to do than what Piquet did.
And yet you defended him.
You said people say things if people happen to be a bit little bit overweight or undersized like me.
I'm quite sure people have made remarks about that.
I'm surprised Lewis hasn't brushed it aside or better than that, replied.
But now he's come out and Nelson's apologised.
Why should Lewis Hamilton brush aside a Formula One legendary figure like Nelson Piquet calling him the N-word?
Well, I don't know what the N-word was.
Well, the N-word is the N-word.
It's not ambiguous.
Well, I don't know what it was.
I mean, I didn't...
He said something in Portuguese, I believe.
He used the Brazilian equivalent of the M-word, but it's exactly the same in its connotation.
It is exactly the same in its racist intent.
He made a racist comment.
That is why everybody right now is distancing themselves from Piquet, apart from, again, you.
And, you know, in the same interview that you've defended Putin, who's waging an illegal war, you defend Nelson Piquet for calling Lewis Hamilton a disgusting racist epithet.
And then when Lewis Hamilton responds in the way that he did, which most people completely understand, you call it absolute nonsense.
Not that he never mentioned Piquet or the N-word, did he?
Yeah, but how can you defend Nelson Piquet for calling Lewis Hamilton the N-word?
And how can you dismiss what Lewis Hamilton says as nonsense when he's clearly as the only main black driver in Formula One?
Why on earth, why on earth would you not have any empathy for him about having to be called this?
No, stop a second.
The question to him, I don't know.
His answer wasn't about the N-word.
The answer was about elderly people being involved in the sport, being able to speak.
He should remember.
I gave a coloured driver first, informal one, and the guy came out and very clearly and was very thankful.
Recently he said this, I pulled things out of South Africa.
I've probably done as much for anybody about racist, which i'm anti anti, anti.
I can honestly say, and I've said it before, I've never met a coloured person that I found I don't like.
See, even the language you're using now, Bernie, will be inflammatory to people because you're talking about people of colour or black people, but they don't use that phrase coloured people.
So, I mean, Lewis Hamilton's response to that would be, you've got to move with the times and use the language that is less inflammatory.
Do you understand that?
Which is what?
Which is you use, you either say that they are a black person or people of colour.
That's the language that is used today.
Well, I said that.
You said coloured people.
Yeah, well, colour.
How can I word it?
Maybe my English isn't good, but I would have thought people would understand that.
It's not ambiguous, Bernie.
What he said is a Brazilian.
He used a word, which is the Brazilian equivalent of the N-word.
There's no doubt about this.
It's all on a podcast.
Everybody's heard what he said.
Yeah, they all understood it.
I'll brush up on my Portuguese.
And probably all the people that heard it will have to do the same.
Lewis Hamilton also said an interview with The Telegraph in relation to your comments about Putin.
He said, you know what you're going to get with that?
I don't know where Good Morning Britain's goal was this, whether it's create and divide by having you on as a guest at all.
He said, we don't need any more of it to hear from someone that believes in the war and the displacement of people and killing of people.
And supporting that person, Putin, is beyond me.
I cannot believe I heard that.
This is going to put us back decades and we've yet to see the real brunt of the pain.
Why?
We do not need to be supporting that.
We're looking into the future.
If you don't have anything positive to contribute, don't give them any space.
So Lewis Hamilton was enraged that you were even given the platform to say that you supported Putin.
But in relation to what he says about we don't need to hear from someone that believes in the war, what do you say to that?
I'm surprised.
I mean, sorry, what you showed me just now was something that Lewis had said.
This is an interview given to the Telegraph today in relation to your comments.
Nobody said that because you've recorded it and you explained it to me.
Where was it said?
No, no, these are further quotes from Lewis to The Telegraph.
They're not on camera.
So this is an interview he's given to the Telegraph.
What you said showed me was him talking and speaking about.
Yes, that was earlier.
This is other quotes he said to the Telegraph.
But wait a minute, that's what he said.
How did he get that platform to say that?
And why should he have been given the platform to say that?
So you don't think Lewis Hamilton should get a platform to respond to what you said?
Yeah, I'm delighted he did.
What I can't understand is why he complained that I had a platform to say something.
Well, because you're defending a warmonger, Vladimir Putin, who's waging an illegal war, and because you're defending Nelson Piquet for calling him the N-word, which you say should be treated like somebody calling you a bit undersized.
Nelson Piquet And The N-Word 00:08:03
Yeah, which happens all the time.
But Bernie, there is no equivalence between somebody calling a black person the N-word and saying that you are undersized.
There's no equivalence.
You must see that.
Terribly rude sorry, it's terribly rude to say somebody is underscore or is a fat person.
You genuinely think that there is some equivalence between calling a black person the n-word and call and saying that you're short, for example.
Well if, for example, they're black and they're saying or if you're fat, I suppose it's the same sort of feeling.
It's not though, is it?
I don't know, it depends if you're fat.
You genuinely think that people commenting on someone's size has the same ability for offense as commenting on somebody's skin colour in a derogatory way?
Yes, why not?
Well, on South Reaction to my Ascendurian exclusive interview with Formula One mogul Bernie Eccleston.
That's the Piers Pat coming next.
Welcome back to Pearson.
We're going to sense lots of reaction coming in already to this extraordinary interview with Formula One mogul Bernie Eccleston.
We've just seen him rebuke Lewis Hamilton for having the audacity to be upset about being called the N-word.
Well, now's the final part of my interview, and then we'll get a reaction to the interview with my PiersPat tonight.
I gave him a last opportunity to explain himself or even express regret.
It's no surprise to me, Bernie.
Your comments this morning cause outrage.
And I think when people watch our interview, they're going to feel more outrage because they're going to think you just don't get it.
Well, my feelings of Putin have only been my meetings with him and things I've done with him.
So that's my feelings about him.
That's what I think is a straightforward guy.
But he's been straightforward as far as I'm concerned.
And he's done everything he said he'd do.
So to me, that's good because there's not many people around today that are like that.
As for Nelson, I've known Nelson for years.
And I'm very surprised that he would be saying something bad that he really genuinely believed.
And I think he might have exploded over the accident with Lewis and Maxwell Staff.
Well, there's never any justification for anybody saying the N-word and even less justification, frankly, for someone who's a big figure in the Formula One to say it about the most famous black Formula One driver.
It's a disgusting thing that Piquet said.
And what you should have done, if you don't mind me offering some advice to someone of your venerable age and experience, what you should have done when you were asked about it is simply condemn it and say absolutely outrageous that anyone would say that about Lewis Hamilton.
But instead, you didn't.
You defended it and likened it to someone commenting on someone's size.
And that's why Lewis Hamilton was so upset and outraged.
If I heard anybody in front of me say that to Lewis, I would defend Lewis without any shadow of doubt.
But you didn't defend him when you were told Nelson Pique.
You were booked on the show, Good Morning Britain, specifically to talk about what Nelson Pique said.
So you knew what he'd said and you defended him.
I don't know if that word defended.
I don't understand it.
What do you mean?
Let me explain what I mean by defending.
When you were asked about it, you said that people say things.
If people happen to be a little bit overweight or undersized like me, I'm quite sure a lot of people have made remarks about that.
I'm surprised Lewis hasn't brushed it aside.
I mean, why should he brush it aside?
Lewis Hamilton doesn't think we should even be giving you platform to say this stuff.
I don't happen to believe in no platforming people.
I want you to be able to clarify and explain what you said.
But the fact you still don't really get why it would be so offensive to not condemn what Piquet said is what will baffle people.
It wouldn't be offensive to me if anyone said anything in that way about me.
I would defend it.
But you say that you're not racist and you say if you heard someone say the N-word in front of you, you would tackle them.
And yet when you're told that someone you know, Nelson Pique, says this about Lewis Hamilton, you go on national television in the UK to defend him.
And I can't square those.
I can't square those things.
What would it take, Bernie, for you to denounce Vladimir Putin and cut off any association with him?
What more would he have to do?
What would he have to do?
Yeah.
Well, I've not spoken to him, as I said, during this conflict went on.
So I don't know if my relationship with him will still continue.
Why would you want it to, given what he's done?
I'd like to, which I would obviously, if I wanted to, have the answer from him as to why he actually acted in this way.
Bernie, I appreciate you coming on the show.
I do.
You didn't need to.
I appreciate you giving more clarity to your comments this morning.
I'll be straight with you.
Like I say, I've known you a long time.
I was startled by what you said this morning.
I don't think you should be defending Putin in any way.
And I think you should be roundly condemning Nelson Piquet as everybody else has done.
And I think if I were you, I would look at the comments on every single news story about this, which have been published and see what the public feel about what you said.
And you might be surprised.
Maybe you're not interested.
Maybe you don't care.
But there's been universal condemnation for what you said.
No, I do care.
And I've had a few phone calls saying to me, well done.
Pity a few more people don't speak like that.
You've had people say, well done because you defended Vladimir Putin and you defended Nelson Piquet.
Well, they're well done on the show.
Really?
You've had people congratulating you on what you said this morning.
Hang on, just come in.
Dear Bernie, just saw your interview about Russia.
Loved it.
What did they love about it?
Madrich asked, I just read what was on the come up on the phone.
So just to just to end, Bernie, you've got no regrets about what you said.
I regret, perhaps, the way people have tried to sort of twist around to make me look as if I've done something wrong.
I don't think anyone's twisted your words, Bernie.
Honestly, when you say things like, Putin's a first-class person, I'd take a bullet for him.
No one needs to twist those words.
They speak for themselves.
I am very, very, very disappointed in what's happened with the people in Ukraine.
And I'm in the process now of putting something together to fund the fact of the poor people that have suffered.
And to the people of Ukraine who were outraged by what you said, including President Zelensky, what would you say to them?
Well, I haven't spoken to the other people.
But what would your message be to them now in this interview?
If they're watching?
I'm terribly terribly, terribly sorry what happened.
Okay, Bernie Eccleston, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
Good.
Thank you.
Extraordinary interview.
Apologies For Offensive Remarks 00:06:31
Well, we have some breaking news just come in.
Quite extraordinary story that the Conservative Deputy Chief Whip, Christopher Pincher, has resigned tonight after apparently going to a private member's conservative club last night and groping two men.
His letter to the Prime Minister Boris Johnson sort of admits it all, really.
He says, Dear Prime Minister, last night I drank far too much.
I've embarrassed myself and other people, which is the last thing I want to do.
For that, I apologise to you and those concerned.
He's now quit as Deputy Chief Whip.
This, of course, could prompt him having to resign as an MP, which would mean another by-election.
So another blow to Boris Johnson and his Conservative party.
The odd thing about this story is that Christopher Pincher has had to resign before for groping another man.
Seems to be something he does quite regularly, and then he had to resign that time for the Whips office.
I would just suggest to Boris Johnson that maybe don't have him back in the Whips office anytime soon.
Anyway, here we now have to react to the Bernie Eccleston interview and this breaking news are tonight's Piers Pack, Conservative writer Esther Kraku, and feminist author and playwright Bonnie Greer.
Well, welcome to both of you.
We'll get to Mr. Pincher in a moment.
Aptly named character, I would have thought.
Mr. Pincher.
Given what he was up to last night.
And the whip and the whip, too.
Well, exactly.
Whips.
Pincher has got it all really.
He's a farce.
Tabloid editor's dream.
He's an English farce.
Yeah.
We'll come to him in a moment.
Quick reaction, though, to Bernie Eccleston on two points, Bonnie.
One, his extraordinary defense of Vladimir Putin, who he calls a good guy.
I take a bullet for him.
Even his sort of torturous explanation for why he felt this way.
Such an offensive thing to say at this time.
And then he defends Nelson Piquet for calling Lewis Hamilton the N-word, which I found almost as reprehensible.
Well, let's do, like, let me take three quick things.
First of all, it's great that you pushed him.
It's not good enough to say he's 91 years old.
I know 91-year-olds.
That's not an excuse.
The guy has always had his own way.
He's built the world the way he wants.
Putin is a war criminal.
He's even kind of admitted it.
So it's not acceptable.
People let him go because, oh, Bernie Eccleston's 91.
Uh-oh, that's not it.
The other thing is, Piquet needs to be suspended, at least.
He obviously traumatized Lewis Hamilton.
You can tell by the way he responded.
This has happened to Sir Lewis since he was a little boy.
And by the way, what makes it even worse is that Nelson Piquet's daughter is the current partner, apparently, of Max Verstappen, who is Lewis Hamilton's number one rival in Formula One.
Well, this guy needs to be gone, first of all, you know, with dust behind him and everything else.
Lewis Hamilton, Sir Lewis Hamilton, is probably the greatest British player, a person sport in a long time.
So that's not acceptable.
It's not normal and it shouldn't be a lot.
I agree.
Esther, I mean, I just found that Lewis Hamilton's argument today was that there are these old guys in the sport.
And he means Nelson Piquet.
He means Bernie Eccleston.
He also means, I think, to Jackie Stewart.
He's been critical of him as well.
He says that these guys should just now quietly go away because the sport is trying to move on away from this kind of mindset.
I don't think Bernie Eckerson did himself any favours in that interview with me trying to explain himself.
Even the language he used about coloured people and so on.
It sounded so kind of Dickensian.
And it's amazing.
That was his way of trying to sort of make amends by using, being polite enough to say coloured people.
You know, I think what Lewis Hamilton is trying to explain to these people that I don't understand is the culture of the sport has just been you have to have wealthy parents to be able to even be in that sport to get to the level to be what one of 12 people that are good enough to get.
Which makes his achievement all the greater.
Extraordinary.
It's like Tiger Woods in golf.
It makes it sound extraordinary.
And I think that's what he doesn't understand because he doesn't understand the culture wrong.
He doesn't even understand how difficult it is to get to his level.
That's why I don't think he even has the kind of respect that he should have for someone like Lewis Hamilton.
Right, I agree.
He didn't even defend what that man said.
But I think the deeper thing, and I agree with you 100%, is what Sir Lewis said.
These old people just need to go.
I mean, the sport is...
Although, I have one problem with that, which is I don't think he should just say old people should.
These specific old people who are espousing views, which are clearly older than people.
Well, he said something that he had to say was coming out of him.
I don't think it's the age.
No, I don't say it right.
What he did mean is, you know, he says it about women, about people of other abilities.
They don't need to be in that sport anymore.
They need to retire themselves.
And I'm glad you did this because, again, I want to stress this.
It's not okay because Bernie Eccleston's 91 years old.
Well, I really wanted to get him off.
I've been going on and saying, oh, he's right.
I've known him a long time, Bernie Eccleston, and I know his family, a very nice family, and he's always been provocative.
But I watched the interview this morning on Good Morning Britain.
I was like, you've got to go after him about this.
You've got to hold him accountable and try and get inside his mindset about what's going on.
Esther, I want to move quickly just to Christopher Pinch before we run out of time.
So this guy, I mean, I suppose the significance, we don't really know who this guy is until these stories break.
It's a big story.
I think it's a Sun exclusive tonight and a good scoop by them.
Another blow to Boris Johnson, another sleazy story.
The guy has fallen on his sword, possibly literally.
We haven't got the full gory details yet.
But he's gone.
This may trigger another by-election.
Another problem and headaches.
And they will lose.
And they will lose.
There is rot in the Tory Party, and it doesn't make it any better, the fact that the head of the Tory Party is quite literally the embodiment of rot in the world.
And they will lose.
The problem with the Tory party is these kind of people, because, you know, if you want to become a sort of a Conservative MP, the selection process is not open.
So they literally have these type of people that are funneled up the party system and they breathe, they maintain this culture.
Esther, what you just said is absolutely the point.
There's a man at the top and this atmosphere is open.
I agree.
The moment I read a letter, a resignation starting, Dear Prime Minister, last night I drank far too much.
I reminded of the fact that 86 of Boris' staff at number 10 got fines from the police.
They all drink too much.
That's the problem.
Ladies, I'm going to leave it there.
Thank you for being so patient tonight.
The interview ran long, as we know, but it was great to have both of you in your perspective.
So I appreciate that.
Well, that's it from tonight.
An extraordinary interview with Bernie Eccleston.
I don't know if he has improved or worsened his position from this morning.
I suspect from what I'm reading on Twitter right now, he's made things slightly worse by digging an even bigger hole.
Attitudes have to change.
My sympathy in all this is with Sir Lewis Hamilton, who has come so far and in such tough conditions in a sport that was exclusively white.
And he deserves to be treated with more respect than he's currently getting.
That's it from me tonight.
Whatever you're doing, keep it uncensored.
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