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June 27, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
45:45
20220627_piers-morgan-uncensored-martina-navratilova-dave-w
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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War on Women Rights 00:02:38
I'm Piers Morgan, I'm sensor coming up on tonight's program, abortion rights, trans women in female sport, and the word woman is now deemed controversial.
I'll ask tennis superstar Martina Vatilova what she makes of this war on women.
Trains, airlines, barristers, now postal workers vote on during the summer of disruption in the UK.
Union boss Dave Ward joins me live.
Music legends Diana Ross and Sepulch McCartney lit up Glastonbury.
But did they kill it or did they kill their legacies?
Happy Monday's lead singer Sean Ryder will be here to weigh in on that.
Good evening, welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
If you're a woman right now, you must be feeling under attack, like your rights are constantly being attacked and degraded and diminished.
In America, the US Supreme Court has just shot down a 50-year statute giving federal lawful ability for women in America to have an abortion.
This went down extremely badly with stars at Glastonbury, including Billie Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo, Lily Allen, and Kendrick Lamar.
Today is a really, really dark day for women in the US.
So many women and so many girls are going to die because of this.
And I wanted to dedicate this next song to the five members of the Supreme Court who hate you.
John Shooting, Judge Christ!
Gaspie for women's rights!
They charge you, just crisp!
Gas feed for women's rights!
They charge you, just crisp!
Gaspie for women's rights!
They just...
Well, whatever your view of abortion, and my view is that it should be a woman's right to choose what she does with her body.
There's no doubt that what this ruling will do by sending the law back to the states in America is that in many states, it's going to be incredibly difficult for particularly poor and vulnerable women, the most vulnerable members of society in many ways, to get the health treatment that they want.
People who stand up for women's rights at the moment get shot down.
Wimbledon Athlete Unsettled 00:12:41
Take J.K. Rowling.
This is a woman who's written some of the biggest selling books in history, which have made some of the biggest box office-grossing movies in history.
And yet the stars who've become hugely rich and famous because of those movies based on those books, cannot now even mention her name.
Recently, the 25th anniversary of The Philosopher's Stone, there's been a series of events where Harry Potter stars have turned out.
But the moment that J.K. Rowling, the author of the books that have made them rich and famous, the moment her name gets mentioned, look at what happens.
Here's Tom Felton.
JK obviously has a sort of more of a backseat now.
Is it strange from her not being around at things like your next question, please?
Oh, okay.
Madness, right?
I mean, how ungrateful.
Never mind anything else.
And all because J.K. Rowling says that actually sex matters in the debate, particularly about trans sport, for example.
And what better example of the unfairness around that issue than this weekend where a 29-year-old trans woman skater, Ricky Trez, who was born a biological man, beat a 13-year-old girl, Shiloh Katori, to win New York City's women's skateboarding contest.
How can that be right?
How can that be fair?
And yet some of the most famous, successful sports people in the world think it's both right and fair.
And in fact, they're enraged that anyone should raise even a quizzical eyebrow at this.
Megan Rapino of the American women's soccer team, the world champions, said, I'm 100% supportive of trans inclusion.
People do not know very much about it.
We're missing almost everything.
Tom Daly, who's the British Olympic gold medal winning champion, said, I was furious, he said, about the recent announcement that in certain sports, trans athletes will now be banned from competing against women.
Like most queer people, he added, anyone that's told that they can't compete or can't do something they love just because of who they are, it's not on.
Really, Tom?
Runy, I'll tell you what's not on, is you saying that you're furious by something that is so obviously unfair and wrong.
And here's why, Tom Daly.
You're a gay man and great.
I'm very happy for you that you can lead your life how you want to lead it.
And I fully support your right to fairness and equality in every regard.
But what if you decided that you wanted to transition to be a woman?
And you all you had to do to compete against women in an elite sport was to just go through a year of hormone reduction therapy and then you could dive against women born to female biological bodies.
You would become immediately the greatest female diver in the history of diving.
You would smash the records so irrevocably that no woman born to a female body would ever probably come close to beating them.
How is that fair or right?
So it's fine for you to spout off and say how furious you are that trans athletes now will have to compete in a different way, but not against women born to female bodies.
It's fine for you to do that, but it's not right, is it?
You're not right.
Well, joining me now is someone who's had no trouble at all explaining what a woman is, a question that has stumped politicians and celebrities now all over the world.
Last week I had the president of the National Union of Students who was incapable of even beginning to answer the question.
Well, 59 times Grand Slam titles winning tennis superstar, nine times Wimbledon champion, Martina Vatilova, joins me now.
Martina, great to see you.
First of all, how are you?
Thank you.
I'm good, thank you.
I want to just play the clip I just mentioned.
This is the female president of the National Union of Students in this country, who did brilliantly to get this job.
And it's a wonderful, I would say, wonderful accolade for a woman to get to this position.
I then asked her one simple question.
What is a woman?
What's that got to do with the price of brands, Piers?
I can't believe that.
I literally told you that.
I'm about to debate this question.
I'm not on that segment.
But it's Arsenal next guest.
What is a woman?
What do you mean, Arsenal next?
I said Arsenette's gay.
You don't know what a woman is?
A woman is someone who defines as a woman, period.
Don't anyone?
Next guest.
Anyone?
Okay, I'm a woman.
I said next guest because that's not my second question.
If I say I'm a woman.
I know you're trying to trap me and I'm not fooling you.
If I say I'm a woman, do you agree I'm a woman?
Now, Martina, it was sort of comical on one level, but also I found it really unsettling that here you've got a woman who's actually a real high achiever.
She's become president of the National Union of Students.
She was very bright and sparky in many ways.
But her inability to even want to answer that simple question, to me, perfectly encapsulated the madness of where Mr. Bates gone.
What did you make of it?
Well, adult human female is the correct answer.
And I find it peculiar that we are only seeing this from one side with trans women taking up space in women's spaces, but we do not hear the same of men having to define what a man is.
So wonder why that is.
Of course, I again come from A sporting viewpoint and what is fairness.
So I really come from this whole issue from a position of fairness for women and girls competing in sports because that with sports biology matters.
So again, up to you to define yourself how you want, but you need to be able to answer a question, the question, what is a woman?
Yes, I completely agree.
And when you hear the likes of Megan Rapino and Tom Daly now coming out and expressing their fury that anyone should be concerned about trans athletes competing against women, again, what is your reaction to that?
What are you thinking about seriously?
Because there are groups now that are up for inclusion based on self-id only.
You don't even take any hormones.
You don't need to do anything at all.
Just self-ID as a woman and bingo, you can compete as a woman anywhere you want.
So this is how far it's gone.
And to Megan or Tom, I say, put yourself into our shoes.
Megan has been there, but a great wood-working teacher of mine said to me, if you don't know a solution to a problem, exaggerate the solution.
So imagine if we had a team of 11 trans women playing against 11 biological women.
Who do you think would win?
Now these would be good athletes, right?
They were good as men, competing against males, and now they identify as women and they even go the hormone therapy for a year.
It doesn't really do much.
It certainly doesn't mitigate the advantage that you get automatically when you go through male puberty, which starts at about 11, 12 years old.
And you see boys just shoot up five, six inches in a year.
And that advantage doesn't go away.
So again, live your life to the fullest, but you really can't have it all.
And sports biology matters.
And it's just not fair to have to compete against biological males, no matter how long have they been doing the hormone therapy.
If they've gone through that male puberty, you really cannot make it a fair fight at the end at all.
I mean, I completely agree.
And what I think is also completely, grotesquely unfair is that somebody like you, who's been such a vocal supporter of LGBT rights over the years, and who formerly had yourself a transgender coach, Renee Richards, that you've been targeted by the trans activists and branded transphobic.
Which I just find, frankly, I find it sickening that you've been exposed to that kind of thing.
It's disheartening, really, because I have been fighting for our community for decades.
And I welcome Renee Richards with open arms.
She's still a good friend of mine to this day.
Now, I'm not saying that I'm not transformed because I have a trans friend, but Renee Richards actually agrees with everything that I say about the transgender athletes in sports, trans women in sports.
So it would be hard to call Renee transphobic, but some people say, oh, well, she's just too old to know better.
Really?
She's lived as a woman, a trans woman, for 40-some years now, almost 50 years, and you're going to explain this to René Richards.
Good to know.
Renee now says herself she should not have been allowed to play when she played as a woman in the 70s.
When she was in her 40s, she ranked top 30 in the world in her 40s when she had been playing for a long time.
So she knows she should not have been allowed to play then and is definitely saying the same things that I'm saying.
Are you gratified, Martina, that it seems like common sense is finally coming into this debate with swimming and rugby and other sporting authorities now actually saying, okay, enough is enough.
And you see the British government now being pretty vocal about it as well.
I think the tide has turned in that we are kind of seeing, trying to find a solution that's equitable, that's fair, that's good for everyone.
And common sense kind of is coming back into the fold rather than, no, you have to do it this way and you don't get a say in this.
So women athletes are speaking out more.
Women athletes are now invited for the conversation as to how we can include trans women.
Certainly, girls under before puberty, trans girls should be able to play against girls.
But again, when you get once you get past puberty, it's a whole different situation.
But I think the tide has turned in a positive way that we can now have a conversation and see if we can find a solution.
You're down at Wimbledon, and there's still this running debate, of course, about the Russian tennis players, some of whom obviously they're not there because the British government stance on sanctions has meant that Wimbledon's banned them.
We've had this conversation before, but what has been the reaction down there at Wimbledon, do you think, about this decision?
Look, we've known about this for over a month, right?
So the players have kind of accepted it.
So this is the deal.
Nobody gets points, so nobody gets ahead by playing other than getting a Wimbledon title or getting to the finals and making a lot of money.
But I think the players are working just as hard, trying just as hard to play.
The field is weaker on the women's side.
I think we have over 10 players that have not been allowed to play.
So it's depleted the field, both on the men's side, obviously.
World's number one cannot play.
So I think it's a really sad situation.
There are no winners here.
And I hope that this is the last that we will have this situation.
US Open already announced they will allow Russian players to play.
And let's just hope that this horrible war in Ukraine, this attack on Ukraine, ends as soon as possible.
So, you know, there's no winners here at all.
It's all a self-made issue.
And it's just a tragedy all the way around.
So I just hope that this is the last.
We'll talk about it and we can get on with it.
And hopefully Ukraine can get on with rebuilding their country more straightforward.
Emma Radikanu, our great hope here, won today.
She looked pretty good.
It's been a fascinating journey for her, isn't it?
Because she had a wobble at Wimbledon.
She recovered and wins the US Open out of nowhere, which is one of the most stunning sporting victories in the history of sport, never mind tennis.
She's struggled again since then to reclaim that kind of level of performance.
She's gone through a lot of coaches, coach after coach after coach after coach.
What do you make of what's happened with Emma Radikanu?
What did you see on court today?
Do you think she's got it in her to potentially win Wimbledon?
There's a lot of questions.
So no, I don't think Emma will win Wimbledon this time around, but certainly it has the potential to win it one day.
I don't think she's fit enough.
Her forehand looks a bit dodgy.
She's not hitting through the ball.
And she really could have lost the match today.
It meant Uto played a little bit better.
But certainly the potential is there.
So I think the first mistake was letting go of the coach that got her to that US Open title.
And maybe they should have stuck with that guy because he did a great job.
Since then, I'm not sure.
There have been a lot of changes.
And I think you can get too much information and then you don't know which way to go because you're getting so many different viewpoints.
So you need to kind of stick with somebody to see if it works first, if you mesh with them in the first place.
So I hope she finds a solution.
She's a great talent.
And, you know, I think she might get into the second week, but I don't see her winning unless she finds the form that she had at the US Open.
In which case, anything can happen.
Yeah, I agree.
I think the thing about Emma Radikanu, we just don't know which one's going to turn up.
But when she's on it, my God, she's unbelievable.
Martina, brilliant to talk to you.
Thank you so much.
Enjoy your time there.
We'll speak to you again before the tournament's over.
Look forward to it.
All right.
Okay.
Cool.
Thank you.
Strikes and Wage Gaps 00:14:47
Well, trains, airlines, barristers, and now postal workers will vote on joining the summer strikes across the UK.
Next, I'm going to be with union boss Dave Ward about those postal workers.
He's here live and he's already been sticking it to me on Twitter.
So this should be fun.
What is Broken Britain facing a summer of discontent?
The Leddish Union to ballot for industrial action as a communication workers union.
Tomorrow, 115,000 postal workers at Royal MAIL will vote whether or not to strike over pay with a result due in mid-July, as well as posties threatening to down their mailbags, the CWU represents 45,000 workers at British Telecom, so the strike does go ahead well.
Good luck to the millions of BT customers trying to get the Wi-Fi to work bad enough as it is.
Well, the ballot follows last week's rail strikes and a planned walkout by British Airways baggage handlers, and joining me now is the General Secretary of the Communication Workers Union, Dave Ward.
Dave, Thank you for coming in.
First of all, appreciate that very much.
I start most interviews with union workers by going straight to your Facebook profile page after Mitt Lynch and the Hood went viral, and when I went to yours today, Dave Ward, after a little bit of prompting from you on Twitter, I discovered this, have we got it?
There we are.
This is your and that is your little joke at my expense where you said I was taking part in a I think what did you call it?
Unofficial walkout, an unofficial wildcat strike, which is when I left GOOD Morning Britain.
Now they're calling you wildcat Morgan.
Now well, I actually quite like the title.
Um, rather like Mitt Lynch likes being called the Hood.
All I would say about that was yes, I did walk out in my little bit of industrial wildcat action, but 10 minutes later I came back to work without a penny pay rise.
I went back to my workstation now, albeit had a little falling out with my employers later in the day, and did indeed leave my job, but actually my strike lasted 10 minutes and I realized that my strike was going to cause huge disruption and distress to the British public and so I saw the light and came back, Dave.
Well, I mean, what I'd say to that is that the objective of any dispute.
When you ballot your members for industrial action, it's always because there's been events that have taken place negotiations and you then ballot them, and you know we have a right to do that under the law and the objective is never to have a strike pits.
You know, I mean disputes are about settlements, but sometimes, if you get the right mandate and you can't go any further with negotiations and we'll give all of those companies that you're talking about the opportunity to have further negotiations before we serve any notice of strike action, that's if we obviously get the the right results, which I'm confident that we will.
You know we, we want settlements.
But here's my problem.
And my problem is not with your workers right, because I thought in the pandemic the postal workers were magnificent, magnificent I speak from personal experience, the guys that were serving me and my neighborhood, unbelievable.
They worked every day through the pandemic.
They were working far harder than normal because there were so many more deliveries being made because people were at home in lockdown.
So I have great admiration for postal workers.
Let's put that on the table right, and I've nothing wrong actually, with trades unions or you fighting for your workers.
Here's my problem.
This country right now, like many countries in the world, every country in the world, is suffering huge economic strife.
We know this.
We're on the precipice of being tipped into a recession possibly worse and right now we have obviously see the rail strike action, British Airways now you guys threatening it London Underground Ryanair EasyJet NHS teachers barristers, bus drivers, rail workers, British Airways and so on.
There's a whole raft now of threats or actual strikes of threats going on, and the consequence of this is that if we're not very careful, we are going to tip ourselves not just into a recession but potentially another great depression.
And my question for you, as a union leader is, do you care about that?
Do you care?
I mean, how do you put a premium on individual workers if it was left to you?
Given inflation is raging at 11, would you like every worker in the country to get an 11% pay rise to cover inflation?
Look, I think there's a lot of points you've raised there and let me answer all of them.
Really, I mean, the first thing I would say is that our message is, every worker counts.
So you know we're not saying we're special, although I agree with you, and I think postal workers will welcome what you said about the contribution they made during the pandemic, because there's no doubt about it.
They were fantastic, no doubt, and often overlooked, in very difficult circumstances.
By the way they also dealt, can I just say they were also dealing with at the same time as the problems with the pandemic.
They were dealing with a hell of a lot of change at that time, and so every worker counts from where we're sitting.
And the background to this dispute, this is not a dispute about affordability.
You know, Royal MALL have made, literally on the backs of their staff, record profits of 758 million pounds.
They chose to pay 400 million pounds to the shareholders and, at the same time as the CEO received a bonus of £140,000, they decided to impose a 2% pay rise on the workforce.
That's a big mistake.
How much do you get?
How much do you get paid?
I get paid £107,000.
It's a hell of a lot of money.
Right, there is a difference.
Let me just explain that.
Well, I work out.
The cat can be middling fat or very fat, or extremely fat or unfairly fat.
My point being, I'm not, you know, I'm not.
I'm not begrudging me what you were.
So let me think, but are you worth any more or less than a boss of these companies?
Well, that's for our members to be.
Totally, what do you think?
Because well, I'm going to tell you the circumstances.
We're a democratic organization.
I get elected every five years, so it's not a permanent job in that sense, and every year we send out financial report that's got all the salaries of our officers, and our organization can debate that every year, and branches, reps and members can come there and change that if they don't think that's right, and I'm sure that you know, if we have that debate we'll have to live with whatever the outcome of that is.
Compare that to some of the people who are the real fat cats, who are on something like 30 or 40 times their workforce.
In terms of what is that a salary number you gave me.
Is that the exact one, or is that after you've deducted taxes?
Well, it's a salary as I know, a salary which that's gross.
That's gross.
What's your total package?
My total package I don't look at the national insurance 143, it's probably around that.
If you'd have three thousand, I mean, here's my point, but you're well, add pension contributions and national insurance contributions.
I'm not sure.
I'm not.
My salary is 107 000 pounds.
Your package is 143 000, right?
I'm not begrudging.
Why do you ask me the question?
Well, because a lot of the union leaders are running around going, these fat cat bosses, and i'm like a lot of people watching this who are really on the breadline and be like, well, what about you lot?
You're all on 140 grand.
I was a postal worker for many, many years and I accept completely.
What were you earning then?
I was probably earning about 20.
Well, there you go, so you're earning.
Look, i'm not, that's not, i'm not here.
So you're earning seven times.
You're earning seven times what you used to do as a boss.
My point is, don't try and get away from the central.
Simple members can make their judgment against my pay.
I'm not.
It's a democratic organization.
CEOs put up their salaries and let members vote on that as well.
I am not begrudging you your money.
I'm just saying when you spray around the world fat cats, as the union bosses are doing, a lot of them are pretty fat themselves when it comes to salaries.
Certainly a lot fatter than their employees.
Can I say something?
One of the problems, I'm not suggesting by any stretch that I'm facing the same issues that all of our members are on the current cost of living crisis.
So he's targeting the bosses over their pay fair, given that you're pretty well paid yourself?
No, of course it's fair because we're not anywhere near in that league.
And, you know, these are people who I don't think are growing businesses anymore.
I think there was a time many, many years back where people might have argued that a good boss grows a business and you wouldn't worry too much about what they got.
That's not what's happening in the UK today.
These are people who are hitting numbers and they don't care what the impact is.
How much have you been offered by Royal Mail so far?
They say 5.5%.
Let me say what's actually happened.
There was a 2% increase that's been imposed.
So we reject it.
Is it true they've offered up to 5.5%?
What they offered linked to change was another 3.5% linked to unacceptable change, which we're never going to agree.
But I would say to you, there are debates to be had about...
By the way, they've now agreed when they imposed the 2%.
They've now agreed to treat change separately.
And there are separate talks going on about that.
But say for argument's sake, you end up at 4% or 5%, right?
Would that be acceptable to you?
No, I don't think it would be acceptable at the moment because inflation's running at 11%.
But here's my point again, David.
If we accept them sort of pay offers, and that's not on the table, you know, I have to say that our members' pay will be permanently eroded.
But here's my problem with this whole issue.
Like I said at the start, the first question about all this.
If everybody wants a pay rise for their workers in line with inflation, this country goes bust.
You accept that, right?
No, what I actually think you're saying in that sense is that, you know, do you really expect to get everybody up to that level?
Well, that's a matter for negotiation.
We're not silly people.
We will know what a good deal is at the time.
But if everyone is getting big pay rises right now, this country can't afford to be.
But if you want to point out the country going bust, I think we need to have a proper discussion in this country about the main issue that's at the heart of every injustice you see.
And the common denominator is this: it doesn't matter whether it's the financial crisis in 2008, whether it's the pandemic, whether it's a climate crisis or a cost of living crisis, the rich and the powerful are getting richer and more powerful, and working people are paying the price.
I don't disagree with you.
So what are we going to do about it?
Well, we have to do something.
I think that's a simple thing.
And by the way, on the spiral in inflation, I don't think there's enough focus on how these companies, who I know for a fact, two companies there, BT and Royal Mail, put their prices up by about 10% earlier this year when inflation was running at about 5%.
And they are creating some of the spiral in inflation.
And I'll tell you why, to protect their profit margins and also to feed into some of the spiritual capacity.
I think you raise a lot of...
Look, I think like a lot of the union leaders, Mick Lynch included, I think you're all raising a lot of valid points, right?
There's no question.
My issue with the problem right now is the country is in economic meltdown.
And if actually all these strikes happen, we have a terrible summer of massive discontent, we will tip ourselves into a really serious, possibly in the short term, irrevocable financial crisis, which might cause immeasurably more harm than anything we're even seeing now.
And I think you guys probably know that.
And you must be starting to feel a little bit uneasy that if everyone goes out on strike and everybody wants pay rises, what happens to this country?
Well look, we're not at a point where everyone's gone on strike.
I believe all workers deserve higher pay in the current circumstances.
It's a matter for their individual unions to deal with that.
And I'll repeat what I said earlier on.
No, there'll be settlements if the companies that employ these workers actually start putting decent offers on the table.
Now, that's a matter for negotiation.
So I think the circumstances you're talking about are unlikely to happen.
But I would say to you that I do think it's time for a serious change in the UK about the whole way that we think about the world of work, the way that the economy is rigged against working people, and including that, you know, the injustices and inequalities that are growing in society.
Okay, you know what?
We've got to do something about it.
You know what, Dave?
I don't disagree with you.
And I think working practice is changing.
Join our union, Pierce.
Well, I support unions.
I don't see it.
But I don't support responsible unions behaving responsibly on behalf of their workers.
I'm just worried at the moment about the greater, bigger picture for the country.
This country cannot afford to start giving everybody massive pay rises.
And if everyone goes out on strike without getting one, we're going to be...
Do you accept that the country can't afford the inequalities that are growing at the moment?
So let's agree on that and let's work forward on all those things.
I agree that some bosses get way too much money out of kilter with their performance.
I agree with what you just said.
And I agree that you should be supporting your workers as best you can.
But I don't want to see everybody out on strike.
Well, at least we're having a ballot.
You just walked out.
And we're having a good conversation.
All right.
And you came in, which I appreciate.
Dave, good to see you.
Thank you very much.
On Sensor Next, was BBC journalist Jill Bando killed by mistake by a Russian assassin.
An extraordinary development in that story.
We're talking about that and more with my Piers Pack next.
We're joined now by tonight's Piers Pack broadcaster political commentator Adam Bolton, Talk TV contributor Esther Kraku and the happy Monday's frontman, Sean Ryder.
What a magnificent addition to the Piers Pack he is.
Evie, Sean.
Hello, Pierce.
How you doing, bro?
I'm great, man.
All the better for having you back in my life, albeit briefly.
Sean, I'll come to you in a moment.
I was going to talk to you guys, just to get your immediate reaction, Adam, to the interview I just did there with another union boss, Dave Ward.
Any sympathies for his position?
I think it is turning out to be different from previous strikes.
I mean, Dave Ward is a reasonable man, as indeed is the, sounds reasonable, as indeed is the leader of the RMT.
I think the problem is twofold for the government.
One, inflation is high and these pay awards aren't going even approaching that.
And two, the arguments about what about the better off, which, you know, you were going into a bit, is very pertinent at the moment because the wage gap and the wealth gap has got wider.
And I think looking at the public reaction to the rail strikes, for example, people are waking up to that.
And I do think, Esther, you know, when I've discovered last week, as we all did, that the government post-Brexit has basically given the nod to the bankers.
You can give yourselves whatever bonuses you like.
You're no longer capped by the EU caps.
Qatar Cash Disrespect 00:03:22
I was like, really?
What a time.
What a time to send that message.
Exactly.
The PR around that is terrible.
But I also think one of the things I have noticed with a lot of these unions is they're asking, one of the conditions they're asking for is to guarantee sort of long-term job security.
Even people in the private sector can't demand that.
If you're in an industry or if you're in a job where it's relatively lower skilled, lower paid, your industry always risks, you know, automation and that sort of thing.
And I just, I don't, I think that's a step too far.
I certainly don't think the inflation matching pay rise are going to happen.
And I don't think they should happen just for the sake of the country.
But I understand sort of a lot of the points they're making, especially with the salaries the bosses make.
But again, that's not an issue that I don't think the Tories will tackle now because at the moment, Boris is a dead man walking politically.
I think, you know, it's really hard to make this feat, but he's actually less respected than Blair at the lowest point.
Well, the interesting thing is a bit like with Blair, actually.
It's an interesting analogy because Blair on the international stage, even now in America, is hugely popular.
It's here domestically that Iraq did him in.
And you see with Boris, he's been sort of done in by Party Gate, but on the international stage, he's kind of holding his own and doing quite well with Ukraine and everything.
Well, holding his own, I think.
You know, remember Mackerel referred to it.
But he's not had a place on the international stage.
Except on Ukraine, it's very difficult to see any area where Britain is actually having any salience in terms of international negotiations at the moment.
And so, you know, it's always a difference when you go around the world with the Prime Minister.
Do people want to stop and see them or do they just walk on by?
And in Boris's case, they want to stop and see them, but often because they think he's going to do something funny.
One person who's having possibly an even tougher time than Boris Johnson right now is Prince Charles.
Now, this revelation in the Sunday Times Esther, I thought was pretty bad, actually.
The idea that Prince Charles has accepted suitcase, well, actually, there were Fortnite and Mason carrier bags of millions of Euros in cash from the former Prime Minister of Qatar.
Now, albeit, apparently, no wrongdoing, it all went to the charity.
But you can't have a future king of England.
You might be king imminently accepting bagfuls of cash from former prime ministers of Qatar.
Again, it's the optics of that, right?
If you're a powerful enough man to be receiving bags of money, even though that did go to a charity, it's very jarring to have that same kind of privileged person telling us what we should do about climate change and all of these things.
You're clearly living in a completely different world.
Most people need to use cars to get to work and all of these things.
Most people can't use the trains now because a lot of train workers are striking.
So for you to harp on about the issues that you do when really it shows there's a huge disconnect between him and how normal.
The thing is, Adam, you'd never see the Queen get caught up in a scandal.
She would instinctively know bangfuls of cash from someone who's been running Qatar, actually not a good idea.
Not a good look.
No, these days you wouldn't take a bag of cash from anybody.
It should be said, nothing illegal done.
It was a few years ago.
But I think, you know, one of the interesting things is it just shows the disrespect that the man giving him the money had.
Yeah.
You know, here's he making, here he is, former prime minister of Qatar, and he just says, oh, you know, here's a carrier bag full of 50 euro notes.
Also, give me some apparently lives a lot of time in the UK, this guy.
I wonder if he declared it.
But if you're handing, why are you handing it all over in cash?
Well, he probably didn't.
That's another thing.
Well, that's another issue.
And then you've got the future king of England caught up in all sorts of...
And 500 Euro notes.
I mean, they're actually discontinuing them because of their effect on crime money laundering.
Mick Jagger Dignity 00:08:42
Now, I want to turn to Sean Ryder, who's been waiting patiently.
Sean, I want to talk to you.
I want to talk to you, not about those things, you'd be pleased, Dave.
I want to talk to you about rock festivals.
We saw the return of Glastonbury.
And I've got to say, although I would literally rather go to Hellenbach than actually go to Glastonbury and sit in a stinking tent surrounded by stinking people for four days, I've got to say, I did enjoy watching it on TV.
I loved the spectacle.
I loved the huge crowds.
And what was interesting to me was a lot of the biggest stars of the festival were the old rockers, Paul McCartney, Diana Ross, and others.
a little look at a clip of two of them.
Now, what was your reaction, Sean?
First of all, to the return of festivals.
Do you like festivals?
And secondly, to Maker and Diana Ross.
Well, you know what?
I was just listening to that there, right?
And it's live, right?
Okay, so, you know, you don't get the sound checks you're going to get at a normal show.
Everything's really hurried, you know, including for the headline acts.
But what I just heard then sounded brilliant, you know.
I mean, I've heard, you know, bits of chatter about out of key and all that lot.
But to me, Pierce, I mean, I might be off me nuts, but I'm not.
I don't think you're off your nuts, but you might need your ears cleaned out because I thought this.
I watched the whole of Paul McCartney's set and the whole of Diana Ross's set.
I thought McCartney was magnificent.
I thought that was honestly one of the greatest Bastion Bury shows I've ever seen.
But I also thought he was brilliantly judicious.
Absolutely, yeah.
He was brilliant in the selection of the songs he chose to sing.
He understands the limitation of his voice.
And I thought he got away with it.
However, Diana Ross, I'm really sorry, but she sounded like a bunch of drowning cats.
What were you listening to?
Well, I'm not going to start slagging Diana off, am I?
You know, at the end of the day, right, she's got to go on there and do a live show, obviously.
And, you know, with a limited sound check, and, you know, all good on her.
I mean, at the end of the day, Diana can sing.
You know, she can't.
I mean, it's really tough going out and doing a show at Glastonbury.
You know, you don't, she's not going to get the best sound check.
She really isn't.
So let me ask you, Sean, let me ask you, please.
What was interesting to me, Diana Ross performed at the she was the sort of final act of the Platinum Jubilee.
The Queen, yeah.
And she sounded fantastic.
Yeah.
But obviously, because she was auto-tuned, right?
They helped her.
Why couldn't they do that at Glastonbury so that you actually preserve her dignity a bit better?
Because he's no time to do that, Pierce.
He really isn't.
You know, I mean, I don't know how many acts was on before her or how many acts was on after her, but you really haven't got the time to do what they did when she was going out performing for the Queen and all that gang.
I'm really not going to sit here and start slagging her off.
Really?
No, no.
And actually, look, don't get me wrong.
I love Diana Ross, and I think she's one of the greatest singers in history.
It's just interesting to me.
In the last week, you've seen Elton John in England.
You've seen Mick Jagger doing it with the Stones, Paul McCartney, and Diana Ross.
And I've got to say, you know, Elton, he sort of gets away with it because he's lowered the range of his singing.
Mick Jagger was never that greatest singer and he's a brilliant performer and seems to maintain the same level of reasonably medium.
But he's not a great singer, Mick Jagger, isn't he?
Mick Jagger is not a great singer.
Brilliant singer.
He's the best bell-wingy ringer going in the world.
No, he's a great hip wiggler.
He's earned his rights.
He's a brilliant performer.
Well, he is, yeah.
You would never compare him to a singer like Freddie Mercury, would you?
He's not a great singer.
I'd rate him better than Freddie Mercury for what Mick does.
You know, I mean, you know, Freddie's going out there doing what Freddie does and Mick's going out there doing what Mick does.
And they're both genius and they're just both incredible performers and brilliant bell ringers.
Both of them.
I do love a brilliant bell ringer.
Sean, you're on fire.
Stay there.
We'll have a short break and we'll be back after the break with my sensational Piers Packer, all performing at the top of their game, I have to say.
Age cannot wither them or custom stale their infinite variety.
Piers Pager still with me.
So Adam, you've been fulminating there in the break about my comments about, well, you think Mick Jagger's a good singer for one, which is a ludicrous position to take.
I do think he's a very good singer.
I'm actually going to Stones next weekend.
I mean, they're brilliant, the Stones, but he's never been a great singer, Jagger.
I think he has.
I mean, I think he could do falsetto.
What he can't do anymore is the falsetto, the sort of stuff he did on Angie and other things.
And Diana Ross?
Yeah, well, listen, you're completely wrong about Glastonbury.
I mean, the one who's really lost his voice is Paul McCartney.
No!
I know he's a national treasure.
No, he's just a better.
He can sing better than that.
I know everyone loves singing along to Hey Dude and all that, but if you actually listen to it, his voice is gone.
Diana Ross's voice, I felt, is also going, but there's more to it than there is in the world.
I think what's going.
I mean, Diana Ross didn't have to bring on, what was it, Galsch and Springsteen to back her up.
No, but that was a good idea.
McCartney played 35 songs in three months.
We all heard what we just heard.
I'm sorry.
Diana Ross is...
No.
The thing is, I genuinely think, because I don't know if you remember that performance by Maria Carey in New York years ago.
That was god-awful, right?
Yeah, obviously, the older you get, the more strained your vocals are.
I think she should have chosen some ballads that are a bit slower, they didn't have as much noise.
Diana Ross still wants to play all the big hits, but she hasn't got the range.
Something like a bad person.
Doug McCartney chooses the right songs.
He murdered Blackbird for a while.
Don't murder Blackbird.
How dare you?
It's actually sacrilege to talk about Paul McCartney.
This is the point.
You can't actually look at it as objectively as an artistic performance because he's second only to David Attenborough in terms of sort of national performance.
And I think he's deservedly so.
Let me go back to Sean Ryder.
Sean.
Sean, I want to get your take.
Not on that anymore.
You know, you lot in that studio, Pierce, you are off your nuts.
You really are off your nuts.
I mean, if you put Diana Ross, right, in a studio, in a controlled environment, in a studio, not the wild west of Glastonbury, right?
Winging it.
Put Diana in a studio where she's like Pavarotti and controlled and can hear everything perfectly, then Diana will come up with the goods.
It's like throwing anyone together.
I think Sean Ross.
Oh, Sean.
He's a raw female.
Sean, I hesitate to lecture you about singing, although I have had my own moments in front of a microphone.
Well, I'm not a singer, Pierce.
Neither's Bob Dylan.
You know, at the end of the day, if I came along now and Bob Dylan came along now, we would be called rappers because we don't technically sing like Pavarotti.
You know, so there's a whole different thing going on.
You know what I mean?
I mean, Jagger does what Jagger does and he gets over every lyric and he keeps key.
Don't get me wrong.
No, no, Sean.
Don't get me wrong.
Mick Jagger is a great rock star.
Arguably, in my opinion, the greatest rock star there's been.
McCartney to me is the greatest pop star.
Diana Ross was the female kind of equivalent of fantastic with Supreme's brilliant solo.
But sadly, as we heard at Glastonbury, her voice is just no longer strong enough to carry a show like that.
It just isn't.
Well, I'm not having that, Pierce.
I'm not having that.
She had a bad night.
Stinging Nettles Denigration 00:03:32
Well, Esther, it's me and Esther.
It's the young ones.
Frankly, it's the young ones against the oldies.
I don't think she had a bad night.
I don't think she had a bad night.
I really don't.
Just one thing.
One thing, though.
I mean, your voice does change as you get older, doesn't it?
And, you know, my position is, if all of them hung up their microphone right now, I wouldn't regard it as a tragedy.
Well, I actually thought the McCartney...
Sacrilege.
For Paul McCartney, aged 80, to do that show he did last night, nearly three hours.
I just thought was magical.
Absolutely magical.
I really did.
And I think your denigration of this godlike figure is actually borderline or sacrilege.
I do.
But I just think it was great.
I mean, Sean, when you play a fairy...
So what does denigration mean, Pierce?
It means to me.
What does denigration mean?
It means to talk something down.
I mean, we're buddies and I don't even know what denigration means.
You know, Sean, I was telling somebody earlier about our little escapade with Ronnie Biggs in Rio.
It brought back very fond memories.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Let's just say my melons got well and truly twisted by you, lot.
They got twisted.
They certainly did, Pete.
They got twisted.
Now, Sean, in even your wildest times, have you ever eaten stinging nettles?
Have I ever eaten stinging nettles?
I don't think so.
Right, so I've got a plate full of stinging nettles here.
These stinging nettles, they're repellent things.
They look disgusting.
They taste even worse, and they actually sting you.
So the very last thing you should ever do, obviously, is eat them.
And yet, in a part of Britain right now, that's what they're doing.
Yeah, over the weekend, there was the World Stinging Nettle Eating Championship at the Dorset Nectar Cider Farm on Saturday.
And you can see them all chowing.
And look at these lunatics, all munching on stinging nettles, just to remind you, look awful, taste even worse, and actually put toxic materials into your stomach.
Here are the winners.
Lindy Rogers was the queen of nettle eating.
Again, she's won it before.
42 feet of stinging nettles she consumed, while a man known only as Niall beat off his rivals by eating 54 feet of nettles.
Sean Ryder, what do you think of that?
I think that's wild.
Do you know what?
I actually agree.
I actually agree.
You know, to me, I started off thinking it was nuts.
And then I thought, actually, it's a fantastic example of great British eccentricity.
There's nowhere else in the world where they would have a British stinging nettle competition.
And the fact that we have people mad enough in this country to eat 50 feet of this stuff makes me proud to be British.
Panel, are we in agreement?
No!
Yes, Chester, we are.
Why are they stinging you?
I don't know, because I'm impervious to stinging.
Sean Ryder, final word.
Are you proud to be British with these people?
Oh, yeah, I'm well proud to be Brit.
Yeah, of course I am, yeah.
Sean, it's brilliant to have you.
It's brilliant to have you.
And I look forward to having a stinging nettle eating competition with you one day soon because we've done pretty much everything else together.
Luke, great to see you.
Great to see my panel.
That's it from me.
Whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored.
Good night.
Good
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