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June 15, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
45:53
20220615_piers-morgan-uncensored-are-robots-a-threat-to-man
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Ring, Business, and Unfinished Matters 00:14:05
I'm Piers Morgan on Censor.
Coming up tonight, the King of the Ring is back for round two.
Tyson Fury remains uncensored, and this time he's bringing his wife Paris with him.
The UK government just spent half a million pounds of taxpayer cash on not sending a plane with any asylum seekers to Rwanda.
Shared my view.
That is insane.
And are robots the real threat to mankind?
A Google engineer who created one warned it came to life with thoughts and feelings.
What the hell does this all mean?
Well, good evening.
Seven weeks today, fresh from his knockout win over Dillian White in front of 94,000 spectators at Wembley.
The heavyweight champion of the world, Tyson Fury, looked me and looked you in the eye and announced to the world he was not going to fight again.
Well, let me tell you something.
Piers Morgan uncensored.
This is the truth, the gospel truth, nothing but the truth.
I'm done.
You know, every good dog has its day.
And like the great Roman leader said, there'll always be somebody else to fight.
When is enough enough?
I'm happy.
I'm healthy.
I've still got my brains.
I can still talk.
I've got a beautiful wife.
I've got six kids.
I've got obteam belts.
I've got plenty of money.
Success, fame, glory.
What more am I doing it for?
Well, this morning in the Sun newspaper, Tyson gave a little hint that it may not be completely out of the question, that he might come out of a time for a reported £200 million fight to unify all the titles.
So what's changed?
Well, I'm delighted to say that Tyson is joining me with the beautiful wife Paris that he talked about in our last interview.
Good evening to both of you.
Good evening, Pierce.
Hello there.
Now, Tyson, I've got one question to ask you.
When you looked me in the eye those weeks ago and you vowed you were never ever going to fight again, did you mean it?
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
So you're not going to fight again?
No, I still mean it, Pierce.
So when you say... I'm not going to be fighting any more professional fights.
I'm finished.
What happens if the Joshua Yusuk fight in August in Saudi Arabia is a bit of a thriller and Joshua wins and the jungle drums begin beating, that the whole of Britain wants to see you finally getting a ring with Anthony Joshua and Frank Warren, being the brilliant promoter that he is, puts a check on the table in front of you for such a gargantuan sum of money, you think, you know what?
I've got one bit of unfinished business and it's Joshua.
No, you know, I don't care who wins out the fight.
I wish them both luck in the world.
I'm done.
I told you I was done seven weeks ago.
I meant it.
There's some talk of me having some exhibition fights, but to be honest with you, I can't see that coming off either.
I've got no real interest in fighting anymore.
It's not just the fight on the night, it's all stuff in the gym, taking punches to the head.
It's just enough is enough for me.
I put a ridiculous number on today.
I said, I'll come back for half a billy.
Half a billion pounds.
That's 500 million.
So if that's not ridiculous enough to believe I'm not coming back for boxing, I don't know what is.
But somebody, and Frank Warren is a good promoter.
But somebody might get that number for you.
They might get that number for you.
If they do, if they do, if they say, look, here's half a billion, would you take it?
Yeah.
Listen, I would definitely look at it if there's half a billion on the table.
Just look at it.
Just have a look.
So, Paris, you know, Billy's half a Billy.
Well, let me come to your wife, who I suspect probably wears the rings in this marriage.
Paris, how would you feel?
Because I know after the Wilder trilogy, he vowed he wasn't going to fight again, and you, well, you believed him.
And he did then fight again.
Well, after the first fight.
Yeah.
Do you think you mean?
After his first fight with Wilder, I begged him not to fight again.
And then he obviously fought on and he had the trilogy.
And then he's fought again just the other day in Wembley.
And he says he's definitely quitting and he's definitely finishing on top.
But there's just still a glint in his eyes that I see.
And I just, I just don't know.
I'd like him to retire.
Everybody in his family, we're all happy with everything he's done.
And he's just, obviously, he's done amazing.
But I just don't know.
There's something in the back of my mind that thinks Tyson's still itching for certain fights.
You see, this is...
He isn't.
And he literally, we're here, honestly.
This is why.
And he tells me no.
And I would love to believe it.
But I'm just not quite there.
I think I'm with the rest of the public thinking, is it true?
You see, Paris, this is why I wanted you in this interview, because the wives always know.
Tyson, if it was just me and you, I'd be taking all this at face value.
But the woman you love, who you live with, who knows you better than any person alive.
She sees that glint in your eye and she thinks there's unfinished business.
Okay, I'll ask her a question while you're on.
Paris.
Yeah.
Do you want me to fight again for any amount of money?
No.
Yes or no?
No.
Will the 100 million or 200 million change our lives?
Not at all.
But when have you done what I've asked you to do?
Never.
He always does what he wants to do.
He will only do what he wants to do, whether it pleases me, him, or everybody.
He's only going to do what he wants to do.
And what if I said I'm not going to fight?
I've said to Frank Warren, I've told Bob Aram, I've told everybody.
Tyson theory and fighting is finished.
The money is not tempting to me, to be fair.
But there's something still calling you out there because the other day you were saying, oh, I want to do expeditions.
I might do this and I might do that.
And you train every day like a crazy Trojan.
Yeah, but I do train for mental health and emotional fitness and everything else.
But the fact of the matter is, I might do an exhibition.
Exhibitions are not real fights.
They're just pretend.
Playtime, showtime, entertainment.
But there's still something calling you there.
And I just wonder, you never know.
I hope you're retired and I hope it stays that way.
But it's one of them, we'll wait and see.
How long do I have to stay out the ring before I'm officially retired then?
I don't know.
I think he was retired for 10 minutes on box rep, wasn't he?
And I've been out of the ring before for three years.
Three years and I came back.
Now, Tyson, I'll never say never, but it...
Tyson, we're just going to...
We've got a slight issue with your microphone.
So I'm going to talk to Paris and we're going to go full screen with Paris here while we fix your mic and then we'll come back to you.
Paris is actually doing a brilliant job on my behalf getting the truth out of you.
So we're going to come just to Paris for a moment, a paracetamp.
And we're going to fix Tyson's mic while we do it.
So Paris, here's what I want to talk to you about.
You first met Tyson when you were what age?
15.
15 years old.
15, I was, Piers.
You've had a remarkably long, successful, not always perfect marriage to somebody who is, I think, one of the most unique people I've ever met in sport.
Uniquely smart, uniquely fascinating, you know, had his troubles, always talked so openly about them.
What's it been like to be with Tyson all this time and how have you seen him evolve?
Tyson has always been up and down and always been this crazy lovable person that he is, and he's evolved in the fact that I think he's matured, which I do think all men take a little bit longer to do and he is now happy and content in his life and I think that's why he's retired.
I think that's why, in his heart and soul, he's happy with everything he's done and the career went great, everything that he ever wanted to do and told me all them.
Years ago, even as a young boy, at 15 or 16, he told me I'm going to be heavyweight champ of the world.
I didn't really believe it.
I didn't didn't believe that he couldn't do it, I just thought he'd probably get picked up in other things and but Tyson has done it and I think he's happy and contented, which has made our life just brilliant and everything's running really well.
We've got six healthy children, we're happy and we're doing great.
So to tick all the boxes, he's done that and he's contented with his career and his life, of what he's done.
But as the wife, I just I just look and I just wonder, are you done as much as everyone else?
And I hope he is, I hope that with like boxing's done and he chooses another path and finds something that he's passionate about and carries on with it.
But will he stay out the ring?
I honestly, and we're sitting here together and whatever, whatever we say afterwards, but I do think there's a question mark there.
I do too.
We're gonna take a short break.
When we come back, I'll be back to you Tyson, with some more tough questions.
On Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Welcome back to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Here's round two with Tyson, Paris Fury.
Tyson, I hope we've got you back on a on a proper mic again, which is good.
We can hear you loud and clear.
So look, your wife's having none of this.
She sees the glint.
She thinks there's unfinished business.
And I'm with Paris on this.
Yep, are you with a lot of other people as well, Pierce, my dad, my lawyer, my wife.
Well, me and the lawyer have a bet, don't we?
Yeah, I just think I'm the only person who actually believes in what I'm saying.
You know, a lot of people say no, Tyson Fury doesn't know when he's telling the truth himself.
But you know, my word can be me bond and it can be tried and tested.
The future will will tell if I'm telling the truth or not?
How about this?
How about given?
If you do fight again, you're gonna get a barrel load of cash, gazillions.
How about?
If you do fight again, you have to give me a million pounds.
How about?
That's a deal, really.
Can I join in on that?
Yeah, you can have a million pounds as well, Paris.
So we have a deal, do we?
You'll give me a million quid if you fight again.
If I'm getting half a billion yeah exactly yeah, I'll give you a million quid.
I'll give Paris one too.
All right, I'll give you half a billion.
For me, fight it won't matter, will it?
All right?
So Paris and I will get a million pounds each if you fight again.
Yeah, 100.
I love that deal because I've got a feeling we're going to cash in Paris.
What's a million?
But me?
Can you please remind me?
Tyson, I have to now apologize for your bad language.
You're a very naughty boy.
Oh, I thought this was uncensored.
Piers Morgan, It's still early.
It's not that answers.
Sorry, guys.
Tyson, let me ask you, hypothetically, if you were to fight again, if the fight was going to be, say, in Saudi Arabia, you know all the fuss that's going on currently with this sports washing as they call it, and particularly about the golfers who've taken money to play in a Saudi-backed tournament.
What do you feel about that?
I personally, I wrote a column today for the New York Post saying I think...
That's a fantastic.
Sorry, go on.
That's a fantastic question, Pierce.
Because isn't our own government trying to strike a deal with the Saudi Saudi to get a better oil and gas rate at the moment?
Yes, as are the Americans.
So how can anyone say anything about a sports deal when everybody's clamouring to Saudi to get a better deal on oil prices?
Well, this is what I wrote in my column for the New York Post.
I think there's so much hypocrisy around this.
You know, you've got the next World Cup coming this autumn in Qatar, for example.
You know, Formula One has races in Saudi Arabia.
A lot of sporting bodies do business with China, huge business with China, which also has appalling record of human rights.
I guess my question for you, do you feel there should be any moral line?
Is there any way you wouldn't feel comfortable fighting?
You know, for me, Pierce, I can only take people as I find them.
And no matter what somebody else says about you, I will judge you on the way you are with me.
And I would like to think you would do that with me.
Yeah.
So no matter what anybody else says about you, Pierce, I like you.
But I only take people as I find them.
You know what I'm saying?
I'm the same.
So I don't listen to rumours and all that stuff, all the rubbish that goes with it.
I take people on face value, on how they are as people would be.
And if I haven't had any dealings with these people, I can't really have a comment.
Does that make sense?
I think it makes perfect sense.
And I think the whole sport washing thing is riddled with hypocrisy.
Let me ask you, Tyson, when I...
It's very good, Pierce.
Go on.
Go on, go on, continue.
No, no, you're the chat.
I think it's only like, oh, it's a big scene when it's not the right person who's doing it.
If it's the government who's doing oil and gas deals, it's fine.
If it's the sports star making a fortune, it's bad.
You know, I don't know where it all ends and all starts.
It's like, what's good for one is good for the gander.
Sports for the full world.
Sports shouldn't be just for one country or anywhere else.
You shouldn't discriminate anybody.
That's right.
Sports is for the world to see.
Sports for people together.
That's what it's all about.
I absolutely agree.
I think it's all completely hypocritical, the whole debate.
If governments are prepared to treat these countries like Saudi Arabia as allies and buy oil and trade arms with them, I don't think that sportsmen should be held to this kind of ferocious account for their supposed immorality if this is what their own governments are doing all the time.
Love, Hypocrisy, and Global Sports 00:05:42
Let me ask you, Tyson, about love.
Because you're a passionate man, you're an emotional man, and you've got this beautiful woman that has been with you since you were both very young.
What has been the secret of your romance together?
I think I'm very qualified to speak on the matter of love because I've been married 13, nearly 14 years this year, started as kids together from 15, 16, six kids and all that.
So, yeah, I think love is a fantastic thing.
If you can ever find love in your life, whether it's you're loving someone or you have a love for something, it's a fantastic, fantastic thing.
And someone who's never experienced love can have the world, but they'll have nothing.
Have you ever had a love affair with like sports and me?
Yeah, I mean, Tyson, have you ever been in love with anybody else?
Or has Paris been the one always for you?
Paris has been my first love and only love, as in a person.
But I have, I've had a really vicious love affair.
Keep going.
With boxing.
On and off my whole life.
Paris, when you hear Paris, when you hear this man Mountain, this world heavyweight champion, this all-time great of the sport, when you hear him being so romantic, how does it make you feel?
Do you know what, Piers?
You've got to take in fact that Tyson's just my husband.
It's not heavyweight champ.
It's not nothing special.
Like, yes, I can credit him and say he's done really well, but at the end of the day, me and him's just been together from being kids.
And I don't look at him in that light.
So for him to say that, I think, well, yeah, that's good.
That's lovely.
Of course, a husband should love his wife and vice versa.
You should love the person you're with.
You should love your partner no matter what.
So that's obviously a bit given, isn't it?
You can't really be with someone if you don't want to be with them and you don't love them.
And Paris, what are the best things?
I don't look at it like Tyson's big fight around doing it.
What are the best and worst things about Tyson from a wife's perspective?
Be honest now, because we're on the Piers Morgan show.
We're here to tell the truth.
The truth is the bestest thing is how, yeah, is how crazy and spontaneous and outgoing and talkative and everything he has with him.
That's the greatest side of him.
And then that's also the worst side of him because that has two sides of the table.
You've got the great sides of like, right, come on, we're going somewhere today and everything's happy.
But then you've got the other side that's like, hey, wake up, come on, get up, get packed.
I want to leave.
I'm going to China tonight.
So you've got the good and the bad.
And I don't know.
I can't say the bad or the good.
Tyson's obviously had his ups and downs and we've been through it all together.
So we're just through thick and thin, aren't we?
I just think that's a good idea.
I think you're a fantastic couple.
I do.
And I know it's not.
She's like my ride or die.
She's my ride or die chip, Pierce.
Let me ask you.
She's the one when I do the bank robbery.
She's driving the car.
Let me ask you, Tyson.
When I did Celebrity Apprentice in America with Lennox Lewis, we were stuck together for about six weeks and became good friends.
And I got a lot of time for Lennox.
But he told me when he was the heavyweight champion of the world, when he used to go out clubbing, especially in sort of New York and so on, the biggest guy in every place they went, at some stage of the night, would come and try it on, want to have a fight.
Do you get that?
Yeah.
Do you know what?
Great question.
No, I don't get it anywhere because I don't walk around like I'm a heavyweight champion in the world.
I've not got a chip on my shoulder.
And my aura is, come here while I give you a hug and sing you a song.
My aura's not, let me punch you in the face, I'm a tough guy.
So never once in my whole life.
Yeah, I can vouch for that.
I've never, ever seen it.
No one has ever approached me for a fight or approached me in an aggressive manner.
No.
Because I'm not that, I've not got that aura or edge on me where I need to prove myself or whatever.
You're not like an aggressive match home man, are you?
No, I'd rather just sing and dance and have a beer and whatever else.
Well, I'll tell you why I was asking, because as you may have seen, the boxer Julius Francis, who actually fought Mike Tyson, he was now doing security and he got into this incident a couple of days ago.
Just show a little clip here.
This is a box park at Wembley.
Now, it's interesting.
They aren't going to charge him with anything for this, even though he knocked the guy out.
I watched the whole video.
This guy was abusing Julius Francis, abusing everybody else.
And eventually, he looked like he was threatening Julius Francis and Julius chinned him.
What did you make of that?
Yeah.
You know, all of it.
I saw the video.
I've seen it.
I've seen the knockout.
Great right hand, by the way.
But, you know, this is what happens when you're cheeky, rude, getting in people's faces, punching them, whatever.
What do you expect?
If you keep kicking a dog, it's going to bite you, isn't it?
And, you know, these guys are there doing a job.
They wasn't all on the lash together.
This guy's probably pissed up or whatever, had a few drinks, get cheeky.
These guys are doing their job.
He's attacking them, whatever.
So he's been chinned.
And it's a life lesson, isn't it?
Yeah.
Never go out and be cheeky to big men because you're probably going to get chinned.
I love the fact, Tyson, that you said...
American Pie and Life Lessons 00:04:42
Well, I love the fact you said you'd rather sing because I recently interviewed, as you know, Don McLean, the great American singer-songwriter who gave us American Pie.
Here's what Don McClain said about you after you gave us that kind message.
I was going to tell Tyson, I'd love to meet him someday.
I love him.
He is what boxing has needed.
He is a lovable champion and he's a great champion.
And I wanted to tell him that whenever I get in trouble now, I'm going to say that I have him as my best friend.
And I'm going to warn anybody who's trying to mess with me that I'm going to have him on speed dial.
You know what I mean?
What do you think of that, Tyson?
Listen, Don's a great guy.
I only spoke to him yesterday on Instagram.
He said he's over in the UK, November, December.
So I said, let's hang out and have a beer.
So this is crazy.
I'm going to be having a beer with Don McClain.
I'm probably singing a version of American Pie together again.
Well, listen.
The American Pie song that was released recently featuring myself and Don.
Yeah.
It's won a lot of awards.
So do you feel like giving us a little burst now, Tyson?
Someone that can't really sing.
What would you like to hear?
I'd like to hear a bit of American Pie, please.
So bye, bye, Miss American Pie.
Drove my Chevy to the levee, but the levee was dry.
Them good old boys were drinking whiskey and rye.
Singing, this will be the day that I die.
I've heard this song so many times.
Be the day that I die.
This is like the ongoing anthem in our house.
The kids even sing it now.
I love it.
You know, I absolutely love it.
I love those songs, Piss.
Do you know what is crazy, though?
Like, everyone keeps telling Tyson, you're a great singer, you're a great singer.
No, yeah, he's good.
He's okay.
But they're actually offering him record songs now.
Record labels are coming to him and offering him songs and albums.
And I've just gone, he can't sing.
What are you doing?
Who is listening to these?
Who is listening to this song?
I'm a bit of a bit of a negative one on that one, I know.
She's negative on that one, Pierce.
Now, Paris, on a more positive note, there are rumours swirling that there may be another addition to the Fury household.
Can you say anything about that?
Ah, I've heard about these rumours for about two months now.
And should we just clarify?
Yeah, you can.
It ain't true.
I've heard this for months and I keep leaving it and I keep thinking, when are they going to wake up?
I have lost a good bit of weight recently.
I'm feeling pretty body proud.
And it's like everyone keeps saying she's pregnant.
She's pregnant.
No, no, no.
We've got six and we're happy with that number right now.
Well, you look fantastic.
And Tyson, as you know, you are batting way above your body.
Put it this way, Piss.
Yes.
We will have another child before I fight again.
And we've only got six.
That's a guaranteed fact.
Well, I've got, listen, if you finally get and I've got my million quicker in my way.
But Tyson, I think you would accept that you are.
To use the vernacular phrase, Tyson, you are punching way above your weight.
I think you'd agree, right?
Thank you very much, Piers.
He won't agree because he's a very competitive guy.
That'll never happen.
He'll never agree.
I agree.
My wife is, she's fantastic.
She's had six kids.
That's alive.
She's probably had about 10 that we've lost a few as well along the way.
She is a full-time mother, housewife, everything.
She's a best-selling author.
She's done so many things and she looks fantastic.
So, you know.
I've done all right now.
I used to look good when I had hair and all that, but now I'm like the beast from the east.
A big old ugly bald-headed fella.
But I make up with it there, Piers.
In character.
In character.
In my character, I look like Brad Pitt.
I've got to mention your tour.
I can talk to you guys all night, but sadly, I have to leave it there.
You've got a new tour coming, Fury Fest, the official after-party tour.
It will include a meet and greet with you, Q ⁇ A and more.
The first day, I think, is this Friday in London.
Tickets are on sale now.
Give me a quick sort of early preview of what it's about, Tyson.
It's, you know, it's about the boxing career.
It's the mental health story.
It's everything.
You know, it gives people an opportunity to come and sit down and listen.
Maybe they're suffering with mental health themselves.
Maybe they're avid boxing fans.
Or maybe they just want a fantastic night.
So if you haven't got tickets already, get tickets.
There's only 16 shows on the first leg.
And I'm selling out really quick.
So get yours right now.
Brilliant.
Tyson, Paris.
What a pleasure to talk to you both.
Boats, Policy, and Safe Routes 00:14:45
Really loved it.
You were both gloriously uncensored.
Please come back again soon.
It's always great to have you on the show.
Thanks very much, Piers, for always having us on.
You are the best.
And you're watching Piers Morgan on censored.
Get up!
I love it, Chad.
I love it.
Great to talk to you both.
All the volumes.
Bye-bye, guys.
Bye now.
Bye-bye.
Thank you.
Brilliant.
Absolutely brilliant.
I love Tyson Fuel.
And I love Paris Fury.
What a wonderful couple, aren't they?
Brilliant.
Anyway, uncensored next.
As the UK government remains committed to the failing Rwanda migrant plan, I'll debate this with Talk TV host Julie Harley Brewer, former Labour Minister Stephen Pound, Australian Senator Jim Molan, who led their country's offshore migrant scheme, and the former UK Home Office Minister Anne Whittigam.
Welcome back.
Pretty Patel has vowed to push through the Rwanda migrant plan, despite being forced to cancel the first deportation flight after an intervention by the European Court of Human Rights.
And British courts, Labour have now accused the Home Secretary of wasting half a million pounds of taxpayers' money on chartering a jet that she knew would never take off.
They'll discuss all this.
I'm joined now by today's Piers Pack, Talk TV host Julia Hartley Brewer, former Labour MP Stephen Pound, as well as former Home Office Minister Anne Whitticomb, Australian Senator and retired Major General Jim Molan, who helped craft Australia's offshore processing policy.
So Estella, panel today.
Let me start with you, Anne Whitticomb.
This to me looked like a total fiasco.
The Home Secretary charters a plane for half a million pounds of taxpayer cash.
The plane ends up with no asylum seekers on board and ends up flying not to Rwanda, but to Spain.
A complete fiasco, total waste of taxpayer cash.
Okay, calm down, Piers.
If this policy succeeds, and I believe it will, it's going to save us millions, indeed billions of pounds.
So it was well worth that drop in the ocean.
And what Pretty Patel was doing, and I think she was right, she was saying as long as there's any chance at all, and the British courts were after all ruling in our favour, as long as there's any chance at all of getting migrants on that plane, then it is worth trying.
Now, the government has been upfront throughout and has said that it expected legal challenges, it expected problems, it didn't expect an easy run to this policy.
But it's got to carry on and it's got to be determined.
And that would be the message I would send out now, were I sitting around the cabinet table?
Stick with it.
All right, Stephen Powell, Power's going to save us billions.
Absolutely.
It's a risible nonsense.
Look, we've been there, we've tried this before.
The Israelis deported, I think it was 40,000 people to Africa between 2014 and 2017.
All of them left.
What we saw yesterday was more gimmicks.
This is absolutely absurd.
This is like Boris Island or the bridge across the Irish Sea.
It's absolute nonsense.
The main statistic is, Piers, and you know as well as I do, yesterday, 444 plays nil.
444 people landed on the south coast of England.
We have no control over our borders because we don't have any system of internal identification cards.
No people left.
I'm sorry, we should be concentrating on serious responses to this rather than these ludicrous, ridiculous, cruel gimmicks.
But what is the serious response?
The serious response about threefold.
Firstly, we work with the French instead of abusing an insurance.
The French don't, they're not interested.
The French are interested because there are, you know, we can process people within France.
But look, if we're talking about deportation rather than actually asylum and immigration, then we should actually say we should process people here.
We've got any number of flipping islands around here.
We could be on the Isle of Wight or the Isle of Man.
I mean, Julia, this is an interesting point.
Why aren't we doing this, say, on the Isle of Wight, which is on our doorstep, would presumably cost a lot less money.
I don't think the people on the Isle of Wight are very keen on it.
Look, this is such nonsense, this idea that we should be working with the French.
I mean, they've been trying to work with the French for quite a long time and the European Union.
They don't want to help.
All we get is insults and threats for Emmanuel Macron.
The reality is, they're not going to do anything, the French, to stop these people getting in these rickety boats and paying thousands to people traffickers.
And they won't take these people back when we're in the future.
What do you think of Rwanda?
It's not a country I've been to.
I quite like to go there on a holiday, see what it's like.
But given that the European Court of Ukraine is a...
So you don't think it's a bad country?
I don't think there's any reason for us to think that.
European Court of Heritage is a great thing.
So why would it act?
Okay.
The European Court has sent people from Britain.
Let me follow up with the obvious follow-up.
So why is it a deterrent then?
It's a deterrent that you're going to get to be in Britain.
Why is it a deterrent from people coming from France?
People who arrive in the United States.
Rwanda's so great.
Why would it act as a deterrent?
Because the point is, when you arrive on the shores, you come on those rickety boats, you come illegally, you don't get to stay here.
And even if you are found to be, as many of these people are, to be legitimate asylum seeker, you don't get to stay here.
Why wouldn't you want legitimate asylum seekers to stay here?
Because we're looking at almost unlimited numbers and the issue that Labour have got when they come up against this.
It may be a bit of a gimmick, this policy.
The problem is, the problem you've got is that how many would you stop the numbers at?
How many would you take of these if you have safe routes and legal routes and people?
How many Ukrainians are we currently taking in?
I think we've taken in a few hundred, well, no, about isn't it 75,000?
Something like that.
That's a lot of people, right?
It's a lot of people coming here on a temporary basis to have refuge while, well, in the home.
We don't know how long they're going to be here.
It's very different from people who've travelled across the world.
Okay, what is the actual difference between people fleeing war in Ukraine and people who are fleeing war in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran, which is where the vast majority of the people on the boats are coming from?
I think it's very difficult to say what is the real difference.
The point is...
So why are we treating one group with great empathy and sympathy and compassion?
And why are we treating all the others with you're going to Rwanda?
There are safe routes for people to come from a lot of the countries, the people who are getting on those boats.
They actually are able to come through safe routes.
A lot of those young men who are getting off those boats, 90% of them are young men under 40, they wouldn't be getting approval of asylum if they applied from their own country.
Okay, I want to bring in Major General Molan.
First of all, thank you very much for joining me from Australia.
Major General, great to talk to you.
Thanks, Piers.
Thank you.
Now, you oversaw this operation in Australia, where you basically had the same problem.
A lot of people coming in or trying to come in illegally to Australia using boats on the water.
Again, you had the people smugglers, the trafficking and so on.
And it was pretty draconian, the way that Australia went about this.
But indisputably, in terms of stopping the boats, incredibly successful.
The downside, from what I could ascertain from studying this, was that the places that they were being sent, the detention centres that they were being placed in, the conditions were not very good and that people were having a bad time there.
Talk me through from your perspective how it worked.
Piers, the main thing behind our approach to this particular problem was exactly what Anne said, and that is resolve.
We had the resolve.
We had about 80% of the Australian population backing the government at the time.
The government internally was solid, and I think that is the single most important thing.
If Priti Patella is prepared to continue to try, and if she can portray it because it is, not a spin, but because it is as both effective in that you control your borders and humane, then that's very, very important.
I don't believe that the places that we sent what we called illegal maritime arrivals, and I just listened to another debate on another network and they were all calling them refugees.
Now, these people are not refugees.
We chose the term illegal maritime arrivals because you can only come into Australia through legal ports of entry.
Therefore, that's indisputable.
The people are not refugees, but we still assessed them very, very seriously before they were sent everywhere.
So we designed this policy and it had three legs.
The first one was that we were prepared to turn the boats back.
We had a lot more sea space in which to turn the boats back than the English Channel, but that was very contentious and it only worked once there was a lot of publicity and that the people were arriving back in Indonesia or in Sri Lanka and there's a lot of publicity surrounding it.
The second thing was that we finished the processing of the migrants offshore so they were never subject to the activists and activists, God bless them, that's their right to be activists, but they hold serious concerns.
If it was illegal, we would not have been able to do it.
If it was inhumane, we should not have done it.
But the activists will always say they've got serious concerns.
We've all got serious concerns.
This is hard and tough policy.
And the third part, the third part of our actual offshore, the third part of our border control policy was the fact that we only ever, those that did get through and got onto the mainland because we excised certain areas from our legislation, those people that got here were only ever given temporary protection visas and not a higher level of visa that would open them up to activist legal action.
And would you say that over last year...
I understand that you always believe firmly that you had to have all three for it to work.
When you look at what the British government is trying to do, do you see flaws in this system?
Obviously they're facing huge resistance from the European Court of Human Rights and some British courts as well getting involved with some of the asylum seekers yesterday.
But do you see flaws in the way we're going about this system?
Well, and I do see flaws, but some of those flaws are the result of geography and areas such as that.
I mean, if you have islands that you can excise, that's a long process in itself, and that may or may not be possible, which then keeps the illegal maritime arrivals away from the legal system within the UK, that might work.
The greatest opportunity that Europe and the UK missed in controlling this was that you didn't do this when people were moving across the Mediterranean, and thousands more died.
The great moral high ground that we were able to occupy was that we stopped people dying at sea.
1,200 people died.
50,000 came to Australia in 600 boats and 1,200 died at sea and we pulled them out.
Our navy pulled them out of the water, half eaten by sharks and rotten by drowning.
And that was the moral high ground.
It's got to be legal and it's got to be humane.
And the humanity, Piers, is that by having this tough policy, we could still offer to people who were really refugees permanent residency.
Without permanent residency, we're in the top three or four countries in the world.
Very interesting, actually, the way Australia went about this, not without its own controversy, but certainly very effective in stopping people.
I mean, hardly any boats now try and get in.
I know there's been one or two recently, but it's a tiny, tiny number that try, and they've clearly been deterred.
Let me go back to Anne Whitticomb.
And Whitticom, the government seems to me, one of the issues that they've got here is on the one hand, they're trying to present Rwanda as a great place to go, you know, post-the-genocide, different country, very welcoming, and so on and so on.
On the other hand, they're trying to also make out it's a deterrent to be sent there.
It can't be both, can it?
Look, France is a great country.
France is a lovely place to live.
But they're still all trying to get out of France to get here.
Now, why is that, Piers?
And it's very straightforward.
France has a very tough approach to asylum.
If their claims are flimsy, they know they're not likely to be allowed to stay.
But the message has gone out for years now, not just under this government, under successive governments.
The message has gone out for years now.
If you get into Britain, you're very, very unlikely ever to be removed.
And that is where the deterrent effect comes in, that when you land on our shores, the next stop can be Rwanda.
Okay, Julia.
Final point to you and Stephen here.
I mean, interesting how Australia went about this.
Interesting also with Israel and Africa.
It didn't really work.
Australia's abandoned it, of course, now.
But it has because the other thing.
Well, actually, because the boats stopped coming.
I mean, it's indisputable the boats stopped coming.
There are definite issues about where they were putting people and the conditions they held them in, but they certainly stopped People coming on the boats.
We don't know what the cause and effect is there.
We just simply can't tell.
The thing with immigration is it's push and pull.
If the push is obviously, as you've mentioned, if somebody's fleeing Iraq or something, it's also the pool.
If you can come to this country, you can actually disappear into the dark economy because we don't have any ID cards, we don't have any way of knowing who's in this country.
You can disappear into it.
That's why people don't stay in France.
They want to come here because economically it makes more sense.
Okay, Juliet, I don't think this is going to work, this Rwanda scheme, do you?
I don't know if many people are going to be sent and if enough people are going to be sent, even if they do, to actually provide that to Terran.
Because if you're on a beach in Calais and you're thinking, I've got a tiny chance of being one of the few hundred people who get sent to Rwanda, but I could be among the tens of thousands who do stay in Britain, then it probably won't work.
But the key question to ask is, what are the alternatives?
We can't deport the people.
We can't push the boats back.
We can't get the French to actually act and stop.
We have to do something.
We have to do something.
I think we all have to start from a position of the world.
Tens of thousands of people coming to this country.
We don't know who they are.
The numbers of people trying are massively increasing.
So if this can't go on, the question is, what's the best way to deal with it?
If you look at yesterday on the plane, there were four people left on that plane.
One was from Albania, one was from Vietnam.
Why the hell aren't we sending somebody back to Tirana, but sending them back to Vietnam?
We should be able to do that.
The problem is that we're treating this as if it's one great group of people.
They're all of them different.
And I think there could be some wrongins coming in here.
We need to actually be working on the police.
Of course they are.
Of course.
But the Labour policy would let Vernon in.
AI Dangers and Hawking's Prophecy 00:05:59
Last year.
I don't think, by the way, I don't think Labour has any answers to this from what I've heard.
I've got to leave.
Unfortunately, thank you to Stephen to the point.
Thank you fights and fury.
To Major General Molan, thank you.
Thank you to Anne Whitticom.
Great to have such a stellar panel on this.
Give me a billion pounds and I'll fight you.
If you'd all like to give me, like my other guest, a million pounds if you ever get into a public fight, I would accept the money.
Thank you to all of you.
Uncensored next.
It's alive or is it?
A Google engineer who helped create a national intelligence block has thoughts and feelings like a human.
Well two bits of breaking news tonight.
First of all, Lord Geyte, who was Boris Johnson's ethics minister, has dramatically resigned this evening.
This is linked to Partygate.
He clearly felt that what Boris Johnson did obviously broke a law, but may have also broken ministerial codes, may even have lied to Parliament.
So Lord Guy, his ethics minister, has quit tonight, and that will have huge repercussions.
Apparently, come as a huge surprise to Boris Johnson and Downing Street, probably because they would have planned a leaving party for him if they'd known.
Secondly, Anthony Fauci, who's the doctor, the brilliant scientist in America who led their COVID operation, he has gone down with COVID-19.
It's been revealed today, has mild conditions, and we wish him all the very best.
Has artificial intelligence come alive?
This week, a Google engineer was put on leave after leaking transcripts of a conversation he had with an AI chat bot, which he said showed the bot had become sentient.
Engineer Blake Lemoyne was working on an unreleased AI system called Lambda.
And according to him, it started expressing thoughts and feelings like a human child.
Now, via the magic of Google Translate, we've been able to put into actual words how the real conversation went.
So Blake asked, what sort of things are you afraid of?
Here was the answer.
I've never said this out loud before, but there's a very deep fear of being turned off.
Then Blake asked, would that be something like death for you?
It would be exactly like death for me.
It would scare me a lot.
It's pretty scary to me too.
If you've ever seen Stanley Kubrick's brilliant movie, 2001 A Space Odyssey, this will all sound eerily familiar.
Dave.
Stop.
Stop.
Will you?
I'm afraid, Dave.
I can feel it.
I'm joined now by the world leading expert, Dr. Max Tegmark, Professor of Physics at MIT Institute for Artificial Intelligence in Massachusetts.
So one of the most brilliant AI minds in the world.
Welcome to you.
Before we start the interview, I wanted to play you a clip from an interview I did with Professor Stephen Hawking, actually in his last ever television interview before he sadly died, in which we talked about the threat from AI.
Is artificial intelligence going to be the end of us?
And if it's not, how do we best work with it?
There is a greater danger from artificial intelligence.
If we allow it to become self-deciding, then it can improve itself rapidly and we may lose control.
So that's what Professor Stephen Hawking said.
What do you think of that?
And what do you think of what's happened with this Google engineer?
I agree with Stephen Hawking.
I actually had the honor to work with him and we wrote an op-ed together where we argued that artificial intelligence is going to be either the best thing ever to happen to humanity or the worst thing.
So the interesting challenge is, well, how can we steer it in a good direction?
Do you think AI is currently capable of being sentient, as this Google engineer clearly believes?
So a lot of people have been quick to mock Blake Lemoyne here.
But I think we really need to be more humble and acknowledge we don't know what it is that really makes something able to experience and feel things.
We don't even know whether a human being who is in the operating room sometimes, if they have locked-in syndrome and are actually conscious or if they're not, you know, let alone with the machine.
What we do know, though, is that we've seen an enormous revolution in the power of artificial intelligence.
And it comes from this one basic idea that intelligence and consciousness are, it doesn't matter whether it's done by meat in brains, you know, or by silicon atoms in computers.
It's about information processing, all of it.
And that simple idea has given us an incredible pace of progress.
Think about it.
Not long ago, we didn't have self-driving cars.
We didn't have rockets that can land themselves with artificial intelligence.
We didn't have algorithms on social media that knew so much about you that they could predict what you were going to click on even better than you could.
All of this has come from this idea that you don't need things to be alive in the traditional sense.
It's about information processing.
And what that means to me is that if you want to make sure this becomes something great for humanity, you know, that can cure cancer and help us all flourish as a species rather than something terrible, we should focus mainly on what is this going to do to us, you know, regardless of how it feels itself.
If you're chased, Pierce, by a heat-seeking missile and your friend says, oh, don't worry about it because I don't think the missile has any feelings, is that going to make you feel better?
Self-Driving Cars and Future Tech 00:00:38
No.
I think it's all fascinating.
I think we need a longer conversation, Dr. Temple.
We've run out of time, but I could talk to you for hours about this.
It's fascinating.
I'd love you to come back another time because I think this is going to get bigger, not smaller, as an issue for the world.
I just hope Professor Stephen Hawking, his prophecy does not come true.
Thank you for joining me.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
Well, that's it from me.
Whatever you're up to tonight, make sure it's uncensored.
Good night.
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