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May 3, 2022 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
45:39
20220503_piers-morgan-uncensored-roe-v-wade-and-lilly-becke
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Time Text
Abortion Rights Debate 00:03:36
Good evening, I'm Piers Morgan, uncensored tonight.
Tennis legend Boris Becker is behind bars.
His ex-wife joins me exclusively for her first interview since the shock sentence.
And chess grandmaster turned Putin blaster, the genius Gary Kasparov, will be live with me too.
But first, my brain duck.
It's a stunning seismic bombshell that sends shockwaves across America and indeed the rest of the world.
An unprecedented leak from the US Supreme Court shows that America's most powerful judges are about to overturn Roe versus Wade.
That's the landmark law which has effectively legalized abortion in the United States for the past 50 years.
It's easy to forget when you live in a country where abortion is legal and a long-accepted part of society that in America this remains a highly charged emotional debate that divides people like almost nothing else.
Protesters from both sides immediately descended on the court.
We will not go back.
If Roe versus Wade is overturned, then individual states in America will be free to set the rules.
And almost half of those states are expected to move swiftly to ban abortion if they can.
Already abortion laws in the United States are a complete mess.
Pro-life states have for years made it as difficult as possible to get an abortion without themselves breaking the law.
A woman who chooses to have an abortion in Missouri, for example, a state with a population of 6 million people, only has one clinic to go to.
She'll have to wait 72 hours before signing consent and having the procedure.
The doctor is then compelled by law to warn her that life begins at conception.
But literally just a few miles away in Illinois, the neighboring state, the same woman can choose from dozens of clinics and have the procedure done on the same day.
So you end up with this wretched, confusing patchwork of rules and so-called abortion refugees traveling across state lines.
At least those women who can afford to do that.
Undoing Roe versus Wade will most definitely directly harm the poorest women in US society who want an abortion.
Now I'm not an American, so I have no vote or say over what laws Americans have, but I'm entitled to my opinion, and I believe women should be free to choose what they do with their bodies, just as we men are.
More importantly, the majority of Americans agree with me and support Roe versus Wade.
Almost two-thirds of them, in fact, just 27%, say it should be scrapped.
I'm pro-voice on pro-choice.
It seems to me a dangerous moment for American democracy when the Supreme Court goes against the will of the majority of its people on a matter of such personal freedom.
Well, it's that million dollar question again, isn't it?
The treacherous puzzler that's frazzling even the world's biggest brains.
What is it?
Is it, what's dark matter?
Nope, not that one.
How big is the universe?
Nope.
When did life start?
Not even that one.
It's this.
What is a woman?
Yes, really.
Scottish nationalist leader Nicholas Sturgeon is led his politician to be tied in knots of petrified panic by this completely innocuous question.
Asked by the Times to define a woman, she said, I'm not going to.
I'm just not going to get into this debate at a level that's simplified and has lurid headlines.
Trans people are amongst possibly the most stigmatized and discriminated against minorities in our society.
For heaven's sake, Nicola, it's not a debate.
Defining a Woman 00:03:31
It's literally a word that has a very simple meaning.
It's nothing to do with trans rights.
It's entirely possible to support equal rights for trans people as I do.
And answer this simple question with a simple answer.
Just check any dictionary in the world and you'll find that a woman is defined as an adult human female.
That's it.
That's the answer.
And when you don't answer it like that, you do women and women's rights such a massive disservice.
On a day when American women are on the verge of losing the right to decide what to legally do with their bodies, that definition has never been more vital or important.
It's now 15 years since British toddler Madeline McCann was snatched from her bedroom during a family holiday in Portugal as her parents had dinner 50 yards away with friends.
Madeline's body has ever been found.
She may still be alive.
Nobody knows.
No one's been charged over her disappearance.
Very few child abduction stories grip the world quite like this one.
It made global headlines amid a desperate international search to find her.
And to this day, she's regularly plastered across the front pages with even the smallest of updates from police inquiries.
At the center of all this are her devastated parents, Kate and Jerry McCann.
Now I've interviewed them several times.
I've always been struck by both the terrible grief they feel for what happened to the little girl and the inevitable regret that their actions may have contributed to her disappearance.
You're intelligent people and you were certainly good parents.
No one's questioning that from all the accounts that we've all heard.
It's just when you have people coming in and off a street like that and it's not your home and it's not really secure.
Again, I mean I think it is back to the safety issue.
We did not perceive an element of threat and child abduction is so rare.
Why would you have ever have thought that someone was going to get into an apartment and steal your child?
It just didn't enter her head.
If it had, it wouldn't have happened.
We need to answer all these questions day in, day out.
Why, how, why?
And I can only, you know, say to myself, well, Kate, you felt really safe and I know how much I love my children and there's no way I'd have taken a risk.
They don't need anyone to tell them they shouldn't have left Madeline alone with her young siblings that night, however safe it may have seemed in the resort.
They have to live with that decision every day and it must eat away at their souls.
But there's not a parent alive who hasn't lost sight of a child for a few moments or longer and felt that sickening dread that the McCanns have now had for 15 years.
It happened to me once.
I lost one of my sons for 30 minutes near a running creek.
I'll never forget the desperate despair that swept over me or the unbridled joy when he was found safe.
The McCanns only have the despair and to compound their misery, vile trolls bombard them with abuse every time Madeline's name gets mentioned in the media again, even falsely and disgracefully accusing them and being involved in her death.
To pour such vicious fuel on the endless torment is the most disgusting form of human callousness.
On this 15th anniversary of her disappearance, I pray that one day the McCanns get the closure about Madeline that they crave.
Who knows, maybe she's still alive.
God, that would be an amazing thing.
But until then, if you have nothing compassionate to say about the McCanns, just shut up.
As war rages in Europe, a deadly pandemic continues to wreak havoc and ruinous inflation leaves families living in fear of being able to pay their next bill.
Ben Ferguson Sentencing 00:16:53
Well, what better time for an elitist ball and a pouting procession of our most pampered prima donna celebrities?
The annual Met Gala in New York last night featured a Gilded Glamour dress code, apparently paying homage with no sense of irony to America's era of economic ascent.
This is lines for food banks are through the roof.
You couldn't make it up.
This might just have been the most tone-deaf, self-indulgent, narcissistic orgy of vainglorious nonsense in recent celebrity history.
Stars bedecked in garish and in many cases, absolutely hideous gowns, costing tens of thousands of dollars, parading the red carpet, apparently utterly oblivious to the suffering going on in the world outside them.
The Med Gala used to be about the biggest and most talented stars of entertainment.
Beyoncé, Lady Gaga, Rihanna, strutting down that carpet.
This year was a who's who of who cares.
Let's take a look at some of them.
Here's Emily Radachowski, the model.
Only shocking because it's the first time I've seen her in clothes for about three years.
Brooklyn Beckham, what's he doing there?
His only claim to fame is his dad used to kick a football around.
Hillary Clinton, she was described by Variety Magazine as looking regal.
Regal?
The only regal thing about what she was wearing is it closely resembles the curtains I saw at Buckingham Palace when I went to meet the Queen.
As for Kylie Jenner, apparently eight people had to get her into this meringue wedding dress.
And why was she wearing a wedding dress?
But the single most irritating moment of the night came from, well, appropriately, the single most irritating person, Kylie's big sister, billionaire irritant Kim Kardashian, who turned up wearing Marilyn Monroe's iconic nude coloured happy birthday, Mr. President, dress, the one that Marilyn wore when she sang to JFK.
It has 6,000 hand-sewn crystals woven into it and was sold a few years ago for $5 million at auction.
Kim might as well have pulled a Marie Antoinette where she was at it.
It had the words, let them eat cake, edged into her surgically enhanced backside.
Miss Kardashian said she had to lose £16 in three weeks to squeeze into the dress, and she is forever grateful for the moment.
I'm also forever grateful that I wasn't there to risk my spleen spontaneously erupting over this disgusting desecration of one of the most famous and classiest items of clothing in Hollywood history.
Poor Marilyn must be turning in her grave.
And speaking of Greys, and on a more serious point, what a slap in the face this all was to those who've lost loved ones to COVID, bombs and poverty this year.
Well, first of all, does a woman have the right to choose what she does with her body?
The answer might seem obvious to many of you, but tonight in America, there's a direct and dramatic threat to that right.
An incredible and frankly scandalously given draft ruling suggests the Supreme Court will overturn its 1973 decision that legalized abortion nationwide.
That judgment was, of course, Roe versus Wade.
Now, abortion splits America often savagely along partisan lines.
President Biden is unequivocal in his defense of Roe.
He said a woman's right to choose was fundamental, and Roe has been the law of the land for almost 50 years and would not be overturned.
Well, I'm joining now, my Conservative radio host, Ben Ferguson, socialist author Grace Blakey.
Welcome to both of you.
Ben Ferguson, I've got to say, here in the UK, this has been met with complete horror, but I'm very aware, have you spent a lot of time working and living in America, that the country is very divided about this issue of abortion.
And for everyone who is screaming, this is appalling today, there are many Republicans in middle America who will be cheering from the rooftops.
What's your view?
Look, number one, I think this is a victory for protecting life of the unborn.
We talk about protecting children all the time.
You just had a story about a child that went missing and how horrific it is that child has been missing.
Yet we have 80 plus million children that are aborted every year.
So for me, this is about protecting the rights of the unborn.
I think this is a good thing.
Second of all, no one should be horrified in the UK or anywhere in the world that this ruling came down because abortion, if they're terrified that it's illegal, that's not accurate.
This is sending it back to the states.
And the states have a right to decide what their laws are, the same way that states in America have the right on gun laws.
And look, Democrats have put themselves in a tough position right now.
One, because they can't even define what a woman is anymore, so you can't say it's a woman's right to choose anymore.
And two, the whole my body, my choice, well, they've also thrown that out the window because they wanted to mandate vaccines in America.
So the idea now is, well, let's leak it from the Supreme Court.
Let's have chaos at the court.
Let's try to shame people into doing what we demand they do because we can't define a woman and we can't say anymore, my body, my choice, when we demanded vaccines.
They're in a bad spot as they should be.
All right, let me bring in Grace.
Are you currently identifying as a woman before we start?
Yes, I am.
Okay, good.
Well, as a identifiable woman, what's your response to Ben Ferguson?
My response to this is that America does not want this.
The polls are clear.
This is an assault on American democracy by a highly organized group of religious extremists who are seeking to force women to have births and who want to basically control, use the power of the American state to control women's bodies.
This is complete and utter violation of basic human rights.
Rights that the American Constitution that you hold so dear was created to defend.
And that's not even mentioning the separation between church and state that this clearly goes against because this is all about this tightly organized sex, basically, within America that wants to criminalize homosexuality, control women's bodies, and basically take your country into the 18th, 19th century.
All right, Ben Ferguson, you're from the 18th century.
Yeah, for the remainder of this interview, Piers, I identify as a woman because apparently now you can do that.
So as a woman now, I want to make it clear.
She has no idea what she's talking about about the American laws.
The laws state, and she's completely wrong, that you don't rule at the Supreme Court based on public opinion.
You rule on law.
That's the one thing, the Constitution.
Hold on, I identify as an American as well.
So calm down and let me finish.
Let me finish.
You never rule on the Constitution based on public opinion.
And if you're under...
If you call yourself a democracy, you wouldn't understand.
All right, Ben Ferguson, let me ask you this question.
You and I have debated, for example, gun rights many times over the years.
You've always made it clear to me there's no point bringing in new gun laws because people would still be able to get guns.
I would put it to you, what's the difference ideologically?
If you try and stop people having abortions legally, they'll go and find them.
It'll just be more difficult.
And actually, the people that will suffer most will be those who can't afford to go to other states where it's legal.
So you have a country which will be split, but the people suffering most in terms of choice will be those who can least afford to take other options.
Again, you're going back to the problem here, which is it's a public opinion is now what you're demanding the Supreme Court decide on instead of what the law actually says.
You look at guns.
Every single state has different gun laws, and no one is freaking out over that.
If you're in California, you have extreme gun laws.
In Illinois, you have extreme guns.
Let me finish.
Let me finish.
Extreme gun laws.
The reality is Democrats have gotten themselves in a corner because they refuse to admit what a woman is.
They refuse to admit that, again, that you do have rights or don't have rights over your own body.
They screwed this up.
And so what the Supreme Court is doing and what states like Mississippi, when they challenge us, did the far-right.
Yeah, they did it.
Of course they did.
They can't even define what a woman is.
This has been a concerted campaign that has existed in America for many, many years.
This is why Democrats don't talk about it.
Okay, let's say that.
Liberal democracies who don't think they have the right of the state to control a woman's body.
Ben, respond to that.
Okay.
For the remainder of this interview, I identify as atheists.
Okay, so therefore you fix that problem.
As someone who doesn't care about any religion, wait, let me finish.
As somebody that has no religion right now, I've just identified as that.
This has nothing to do with religion.
And again, if you looked at American laws, which you clearly know nothing about, the Supreme Court is not making a decision on religion.
This is your religious bigotry towards people of religion and bigotry towards those that believe in the people.
I will tell you how you know that.
When this has nothing to do with religion.
It hasn't extremists in Saudi Arabia.
It has nothing to do with religion.
And the support of the relationship with the relationship with you has said nothing about abortion.
Ben, let me ask you this.
What is your personal opinion of abortion?
Personally, I believe that abortion is wrong.
I believe that you protect the life of the unborn child at the time of conception.
As a father of three, I believe that as soon as they were conceived, that is a child, and that child should be protected and not aborted.
I don't know your family, but do you have a daughter?
I have three sons, two that are twins from in vitro, so I know a lot about conception and when it starts.
All of my children are murder babies.
The question I was going to ask you, had you said that one of your kids was a daughter, I just wonder what your view would have been about the perennial question of the people.
Well, identify all of them as daughters right now, so let's go there, right?
We can do that now.
They're all daughters.
Let's have them identify as daughters.
How would you feel if you had a daughter who was impregnated by a rapist, for example, or through incest?
Would you still say that she was not entitled to have an abortion?
It's a great question.
Many of the states that are saying that they will go with whatever the decision is on Roe v. Wade have said, unless it's life of the mother, rape or incest, they will allow abortion in those states, including maybe the conservative states that you mentioned earlier.
If it is personally my child and they came to me and they said I was raped and I am pregnant, I still believe that that is a child, an authentic human being at the time of conception.
And I do believe that you can give that child up for adoption if you do not want to raise that child, but it's still a child.
And that child's life deserves to be defended.
It does not mean, by the way, that I don't think you go after the person that did their home.
Why are Republicans denying people health care?
Why are they allowing people to go around murdering each other?
This has nothing to do with the conversation ahead.
We're not denying health care.
See, this is when you know you've lost the argument.
When you have to bring up another argument that has nothing to do with this, don't talk over each other.
Denying people contraception, basically teaching a policy of abstinence, telling people it's wrong to have contraception, it's wrong to have sex.
So when that inevitably does happen, they have no choice when they're very, very young other than just to have a child that they don't want that is going to completely destroy their life.
Final word to Ben Ferguson.
I would argue Ben Ferguson must have had sex because he's got three kids.
So let's just put that on the table, right, Ben?
Let me say this very clearly.
If you're having to then go into health care and arguing about health care to defend your position on abortion, you've lost the argument.
This is the first thing.
And abortion is America.
Let me finish.
Let Ben finish.
Let me finish.
Abortion is not illegal in America with this ruling.
It is.
Again, let me finish.
Let me finish.
I have a right to an opinion.
So do you, okay?
You both have your right to an opinion.
And the Supreme Court has made it clear that they have said it's a states' rights issue, and that's what the issue is here.
You don't understand American.
I'm not sure we see federal legislation imposed when the Republicans take back control.
That basically makes it illegal everywhere.
Your country is going to be a lot of people who are in the state.
That would be straight down.
We've got to leave it there.
Because it's a states' rights issue.
We've got to leave it there.
This is the kind of debate that's raging all over America, by the way.
So it's a good debate to have.
I believe in uncensored debate, and passions are going to run very high about this.
Ben Ferguson and Grace Blakely, thank you both very much.
Thanks.
Well, uncensored next, Dr. Tennis Legend Boris Becker was sentenced to two and a half years in prison.
I'll be joined exclusively by his ex-wife and the mother of his 12-year-old boy, and that's Lily Becker.
She'll be next.
Well, sporting icon tennis legend Boris Becker is behind bars after being sentenced to two and a half years in prison for hiding millions of dollars in assets to avoid paying huge debts.
The six-time grandstand winner was accused of hiding his Wilmot and Trophies too when he was made bankrupt in 2017.
Well, one woman standing by him is his ex-wife Lily.
They're divorced in 2018, but remain on good terms.
And Lily Becker joins me now for her first interview since the shocking news of Boris going to prison.
Well, good evening to you, Lily.
Thank you.
It must be, I mean, for the rest of us, we're watching this iconic guy go to prison.
It seems a terrible fall from grace for him.
Many people will think he deserved it because of the scale of money which he was involved in trying to hide.
Other people will think it seems quite a severe sentence, but for you and his family, and it's a big family and he's had a complicated life in many ways, but it must be so personal for you what's happened.
I think it's personal for all of us.
Like you said, we have a big family.
I call us the original Patrick family in Germany.
We all pulled together, his ex-wife, the kids, his current girlfriend, Lillian.
The first thing we did was reach out to each other, yes.
And it's hard because it's public, it's everywhere.
It's hard because everybody has an opinion about it, rightly so.
And I'm here to actually show everybody that he has a bunch of really strong women behind him and here to not speak for him, but to protect him.
I mean, it was well known that a while ago you and his girlfriend Lillian had a bit of a spat.
You went on social media and had a bit of a pop at her.
But has what's happened brought you guys close in a weird way that you both see a guy that you've had great love for go to prison?
Absolutely.
And up until today, I'm super embarrassed.
And we're going to meet up pretty soon and I would love to apologise to her face to face.
To Lillian.
To Lillian, absolutely.
She was the first one to reach out to me, asked how I was doing, how I was holding up, how's Amadeus?
I said, absolutely.
I said, thank you.
We're doing okay, a-okay, as good as it can be.
Then I called Barbara, the ex-wife, and it was just a non-spoken thing.
It was like, right, here we are.
Let's get together and let's protect this guy.
The humiliation was already enough for him to have it done on air for three weeks long, sitting there, not being able to, well, he can't defend himself, but as if you know Boris, you know, you know, that he has pride.
And to then be sentenced and everybody immediately having something to say, yeah, he deserved it.
We don't know what he deserved.
But the humiliation, that is obviously.
When you heard he was getting a two and a half year prison sentence, that's a long time.
And this is the man who's the father of your son, your son, Amadeus, he's 12 now.
What was that moment like for you when you heard the sentence?
I completely broke down.
I couldn't hear, I couldn't believe what I was hearing because I was convinced up until the judge made her verdict that he was going to get off a little bit lighter than, I mean, two and a half years, and I had to keep it together.
And I did not know how I did it.
I kind of did it.
Thank God my son, I was prepared.
I kept him out of school.
He was upstairs.
Does he know what's happened to Boris?
He does.
Now he did.
I had to break it down to him.
His kids will tell him at school.
He'll see it on the internet, right?
But that was the thing.
I had kept we as a family, including Boris, Lillian, and the kids, we had by purposely not allowed him or spoke about the trial or anything.
And then I hadn't had no chance but to break my heart or actually his heart last Sunday.
And I don't wish this up on anybody.
It was the hardest thing I had to do with a 12-year-old.
To tell him his dad was going to prison?
He did.
He just couldn't grasp him, still can't.
And it breaks my heart.
But it just made me into Tiger Mama because I feel now that I think we've all been through enough as a family.
There is a mother involved.
I'm not here.
I'm not asking for sympathy.
I don't want it, nor would Boris want that.
I'm asking for empathy.
I'm asking for everybody that had an opinion or wanted to write about him to please stop.
You saw Boris just before he got sentenced.
Yeah.
Boris Becker's Sentence 00:13:41
What was his state of mind about this?
Does he feel that the judge did criticize him for not showing any humility or accepting he'd done much wrong?
Do you think as the time came nearer that Boris understood what he'd done and it was wrong?
I think Boris always knew what was going to happen.
He knew from the beginning this is going to be a tough one.
It's going to be worldwide.
But what do you do in a situation like that?
You just go and be mentally prepared.
And thank God his mental health is so strong and he was probably prepared for these moments because life at Boris is never boring.
It is headline after headline.
And what has happened to him now, I think please allow him to heal behind closed doors and let him.
Do you know how he's getting on in prison?
It must be a very different experience for him.
Liliana has told me that he's okay.
He's fine.
I mean, it's not a five-star hotel, is it?
Like, he can be as good as he can be.
And what about his sense of pride you talked about earlier?
Does he feel a sense of shame about what's happened?
Wouldn't you?
I think everybody is.
And that's why I feel that you know he's embarrassed, you know he's humiliated, he knows that everybody always had.
So how is he going to pick himself up from this?
And the best way he can, trying to stay mentally strong, focused, because it's just an obstacle in the world.
It takes a pretty extraordinary guy to...
He is extraordinary.
Well, I was going to say, but I've known Boris socially and I've always liked him.
He's a great character and he was a wonderful sportsman.
I remember when he won Woman at 7.
He was one of the best.
I mean, amazing.
He's also always had a magnetic appeal to women.
Still has.
And here you are, a beautiful woman talking as his ex-wife, very lovingly about him.
Lillian, his girlfriend, very beautiful, talks lovingly about him.
His first ex-wife talks lovingly about him.
You're all coming together.
What is it about Boris Becker that has that draw to women like you?
Well, that's exactly it.
It's either you have it or you don't.
He has a great charisma.
He is a fantastic father, a funny guy, honest, and you either have that swag or not.
And he is, if you've met him, you know how charismatic he is.
You know when you sit down and he tells a story, you are just glued to him.
He's got these blue eyes and it's just a charm.
And this is how he's won lots of fans.
But how will he deal now, Lily, do you think, with the fact he's now a convicted criminal?
Because he is a man of pride.
And when he comes out of prison, it may be in a year, a year and a half, whenever it may be, he will come out as a convicted criminal.
His life will never be the same again.
Says who?
Well, he is a convicted criminal.
He is a convicted criminal who says his life will never be the same again.
If the people that are standing by him, and which is a lot, I think, don't we all have a comeback hit?
He did, yes, I'm going to get he has, well, he's been committed for a crime.
Well, he has a dual time.
For those who haven't followed it, he was sentenced to two and a half years for hiding $3.1 million in assets to avoid paying debt.
So he got into heavy debt and he tried to hide money which should have been used to pay it off.
That was his crime.
Do you think that the sentence was justified?
No.
I think it's way too harsh.
Absolutely.
I think it's way too harsh.
Should it be a punishment?
Absolutely.
I think personally, obviously I'm biased.
I'm part of the background.
My last name is Becca.
But I think two and a half, it's hard.
It's very harsh.
But we knew from the beginning that this judge, he was not going to take no.
Are you hoping to take Amadeus to see his father?
He is dying to see his father.
I have just told a 12-year-old that his father is in jail.
And the saddest part about it was that I couldn't break it down because these kids are now going on YouTube.
They're going on the internet.
Internet is cruel.
But he also has a loving support system around him.
And he's curious.
And I've told him we all make mistakes.
Your papa didn't listen to the law and he's on the naughty step, a bigger one.
What was the last thing you said to Boris before when he last saw you?
Honestly, I wrote him and I said to him, see you next weekend if you want to see A. All will be good.
He gave me this and I sent him a heart and that was it.
And you haven't spoken to him since he went inside?
No.
Do you hope to go in yourself?
If he would want to, yes.
I mean, absolutely.
With my son, 100%.
I think I need to be holding my hand with him.
Of course I want to see him.
I'm dying to see him.
Lily, I'm very sorry for what's happened to you and to Amadeus.
It's very tough for a little boy to see his dad go to prison.
I've got a lot of time for Boris.
I think what he did was wrong.
I don't try and justify that in any way.
Nobody is.
I don't think anybody is.
But I hope he's okay during his time in prison.
I hope he comes out learning his lessons and that we can get to see him again.
And the fact that you stand by him as his ex-wife says a lot about his character.
So thank you for coming in.
Thank you for having us.
Appreciate it.
Well, I'll turn to the next outspoken Putin critic, Gary Kasparov, and why he thinks Ukraine is just Putin's first stop.
That's coming next.
Well, you may have noticed, I've still got Lily Becker with me.
And there's a reason for that.
Because when the interview ended, she suddenly told me, actually, we're not divorced.
I'm still married to Boris.
And we have this extraordinary conversation.
I said, well, why don't you just stay here for a little bit and we'll just resolve this once and for all.
So everyone keeps reporting that you're divorced.
You're still his wife.
You're not divorced at all.
Very much still his wife.
Estrange wife, as that may be, but we're still very much married.
We have been since we meant our separate ways.
Do you want to get divorced?
Oh, why did you ask me that?
I think it's...
Boris has said you're the most intense lover he's ever had in his life.
It was from the beginning intense.
It was a complete true love story.
There is no ifs or what's about it.
And everybody that knows us knows this.
You don't want to divorce him, do you?
That's a my duty to this.
It's not that I don't want to get a divorce.
I think we should handle our business at the right time.
This is not the right time.
This is everybody's involved.
We will do it how.
Right now, you're still his wife and you still love him.
Of course I do.
Of course I do.
We all love him.
Lillia loves him.
Barbara loves him.
Amadeus loves him.
But right now we need to be a unity.
And I think this let's get divorced or not.
That's definitely on the back burner.
Let's get him sorted.
Let's get him right.
Then we all get to, as we do right now, and then we do it when it's the right time.
Okay, well, I wanted to keep you here to set the record straight.
So there we have it.
A world exclusive.
Boris Berger is not divorced from Lily.
They're still married.
He's talked about your crazy love.
I can see a bit of crazy love coming back from you to him.
So who the hell knows how this all washes up?
But it's fascinating.
And thank you for staying and clarifying that.
Yeah, of course.
I think that's important too.
Good to see you.
On to more, well, maybe more serious matters.
They're not obviously for the Becker family.
It's about as serious as it could get.
But British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has admitted the West was too slow to act over Russian aggression in Ukraine and said we cannot make the same mistake again.
He became the first world leader to address Kiev's parliament today, echoing the words of Winston Churchill.
The Prime Minister urged the country to keep resisting Russian invaders.
The so-called irresistible force of Putin's war machine has broken on the immovable object of Ukrainian patriotism and love of country.
This is Ukraine's finest hour.
Well, joining me now is renowned Putin critic and former world chess champion Gary Kasparov.
Gary, thank you so much for joining me.
I really appreciate it.
I'll be following your Twitter feed absolutely assiduously now for the last two months.
I think you've been calling every part of this so accurately.
What is your current reading of what is happening in Ukraine?
What do you think Putin wants to achieve and what should we in the West be doing more?
Thank you for having me again.
I think we should separate two things.
One is humanitarian catastrophe, atrocities, never-ending atrocities, never-ending Russian attacks against civilians, demolition of the country.
That's all bad news.
And we all share responsibility for inaction for so many years, ignoring the fact that Putin's attack on Ukraine was not a matter of if but when.
On the other side, we could see that the Ukrainian army that successfully repelled Putin's attacks at the first stage of the war and now is defending the East is about to become strong enough to counter-attack.
And I think that with all the support coming from the West, from all civilized nations, helping Ukraine to rearm and also helping them just to feed people and to support the army in any way possible.
So with this support, Ukraine will win the war and will liberate the entire country.
Ukraine will be whole and free, Crimea included.
And the way I see that the liberation of Crimea and Ukrainian flag raising Sevastopol, there will be beginning of liberation of my country, Russia, from Putin's fascism.
Putin has been...
As for the free world.
Well, I was going to say that Putin's been repeatedly saber-rattling, threatening to deploy Russia's nuclear arsenal.
Do you think he's got any intention of actually doing that?
Would he want to trigger World War III in that sense with nuclear exchanges with the West?
I think he's bluffing.
It's not just his own decision.
He needs enough support among rank and files of Russian military.
And I doubt very much that there are many kamikadze, any kamikadze at all, because they all understand, you know, using even tactical nuclear weapons will not terrorize the West, will not put Western governments in panic, but it will invite an adequate response.
And I think the whole idea of this nuclear bluff was to frighten Britain, Europe, America, and prevent them from supporting Ukraine.
It didn't work out.
And I think all the saber-rattling you hear now, it's a desperation, it's panic.
And listening to Russian propaganda machine, I think they can feel that the end is near and Ukraine army is about to start not just holding the ground, but liberating their country.
And Gary.
And we all know from history that the military defeat of dictatorship, it's always the end of the dictator.
Well, yes, and I absolutely hope that what your reading of this is correct and turns out to be the case.
It would be great to think that would happen.
For you personally, you're one of the most famous people in Russian modern history.
You were the greatest chess player.
I'm a big chess fan.
And you were by far the greatest, most successful chess player that there's ever been, really, in the world.
You had to leave Russia, a place that reveres sports heroes like yourself, chess heroes.
Do you yearn to go back in a post-Putin Russia?
Would you like to go home?
I think it's my duty because Russia will need a lot of work to do to return to the family of civilized nations.
We have to go through the process of exoneration, you know, same as Germany did 80 years ago.
And I think every person like myself will be very helpful.
I believe that I can do a lot to help rebuilding my country and making it part of the global solution and no more permanent problem.
And when you see, Gary, the Fiori about Wimbledon tennis at the moment, banning Russian and Belarusian players from competing at Wimbledon, do you agree with the targeting of Russian individuals in sport and culture and so on?
Or do you think that that's a misstep?
It's a tough question because, as you said, you know, I'm one of the most decorated Soviet or Russian athletes in history.
But at the same time, I understand the emotions, not just Ukrainians, but of all other players by seeing Russians taking part in these competitions.
As a compromise, I can offer only one solution.
Any Russian player who is invited and wants to take part in Wimbledon or any other competition, whether it's chess or tennis or elsewhere, must sign a declaration condemning criminal Putin regime and this horrible war.
That's the only condition that could open doors for them.
If they're willing to do it, you know, taking risk, then I would argue that they should be allowed to play, but not under the current Russian flag, which is the flag that has been used to carry the war in Ukraine and the flag that's being carried by the army responsible for war crimes on an industrial scale.
Going under the neutral flag, flag of the international organization or whatever.
I've got to leave it there, Gary.
Fascinating to talk to you.
I do follow your tweets very closely.
I think you've been calling this superbly well throughout this conflict.
And I hope that your reading of it is correct and that Ukraine ultimately prevailed.
Thank you very much indeed.
I appreciate you joining the show.
Thank you.
And glory to Ukraine.
Thank you.
Absolutely.
Talking of glory in Ukraine, there have been some truly heartwarming moments amid all the misery too.
Celebrity Fashion Scandal 00:05:34
A 23-year-old nurse called Oksana had been out walking in the eastern city of Lysa Chanksk ahead of her fiancé Viktor.
She turned to warn him of the danger and a second later a mine exploded underneath her.
She lost both her legs and four fingers in the blast, but she survived.
And this week they got married in the hospital where she's been treated in Lviv.
This is the moment she shared her first dance with her new husband in hospital.
Congratulations to Oksana and Viktor.
What a wonderful end to what must have been an absolutely appalling few weeks for the couple.
Uncensored next against the backdrop of war and inflation crisis and a pandemic was the Met Gala, the most toned-deaf celebrity shambles of all time.
Well, the daughter of legendary Joan Rivers, Melissa Rivers, will be here with me next to go over it all.
Well, let them eat cake.
That was the clear message from the Met Gala last night.
The real world deals with a brutal war, a deadly pandemic, and sore inflation, billionaire irritant Kim Kardashian led the ostentatious showing off in New York.
As she turned up in Marilyn Monroe's $5 million happy birthday, Mr. President, dress.
Miss Kardashian said that she cried when she realized she didn't fit into the dress.
Yeah, maybe cry about something a bit more worthwhile in the world would be my advice for her.
But I'm going to bring in Melissa Rivers now to discuss all this.
Melissa, great to talk to you.
How are you?
Hi, Piers.
Good.
How are you?
It's been a long time.
I last saw you on Celebrity Apprentice with our old friend Donald Trump.
Yes, yes.
I think we've actually seen each other one or two more times since then, but I think that's probably the most memorable.
Let's talk, Met Girl.
Here's my view of this.
I just felt it all looked so inappropriate to me.
A bunch of wealthy celebrities turning up in ridiculous outfits, all costing tens of thousands of dollars, led by Kim Kardashian in a $5 million Marilyn dress, which she shouldn't have been allowed to wear, all showing off how rich and famous and loaded they are and so on and privileged at a time when we have a war, a pandemic, and surging inflation.
Tone deaf?
But so I guess we know now how you feel.
Am I wrong?
Okay, I don't think you're necessarily wrong, but let's just roll back for a sec.
First of all, the fashion industry was decimated during COVID.
And it's not just about the designers.
It's about the people that make the dresses and make the fabric and the mills and the people who build them.
So there's a whole other part of the industry that people don't see.
How can they spend so much money, Melissa?
And yet so many of them look so awful.
But they're not paying for it.
It's all turned up.
My point is that they turn up.
Some of them turned up.
I mean, Kylie Jenner turned up in this wedding dress and baseball cap.
Apparently had eight people to pack her into it.
I mean, utterly ridiculous.
I'm not saying they're all good, but it really is.
And I understand completely what you're saying.
And this was a big discussion around the bringing back of the Oscars and all these things.
But it is a night that, yes, it's supposed to be incredibly over the top.
The Kylie thing, I did not understand one iota.
Maybe I'm too old to get it.
Was it all about low rent, Melissa?
I mean, when you've got a bunch of Kardashians, Emily Radachowski finally keeping some clothes on, you've got one of the Beckham kids who's only famous because his dad kicked her football.
It all looked very low rent.
There was no Beyonce, no Rihanna, no Lady Gaga, just a bunch of reality stars and footballer sons.
Well, that's been a big debate about a number of high-end magazines and who they're using in the magazines, as well as people who would never 10 years ago would have been invited.
And there's a big debate within the fashion industry of that's appropriate.
But if you go back kind of to my original point, these are the people that get attention.
And it's a night to promote fashion, which is a multi-billion dollar industry.
Yeah, but here's my problem.
It's just trying to wait.
That's just trying to get back on its feet.
But then you get someone, wait, like Riz Ahmed, like Riz Ahmed, who I know people are like, oh, I can't believe he wore that.
I thought what he wore was brilliant because he came out and said, this is representing the people, the workers you don't see.
And I thought that was so smart and so on.
But I would take you back to what you just said, where you said that a lot of them are there because they get attention.
And it seems to me that it personifies the modern day celebrity curse, where people like the Kardashians, the Beckhams kids, Emily Radachowski, all these people, they're not actually talented in their own right.
They're just there because they get attention.
And celebrity used to be in the days of Marilyn Monroe, when she actually wore that dress and sang to President Kennedy.
That was an amazing moment because she was a proper movie star.
These lot traipsing up the carpet last night, they're not proper stars.
They're just wannabe attention seekers.
Ham Sandwich Crisis 00:02:02
But this is also a major discussion on a totally different topic, which I am always happy to have with you because I'm very much of two minds about it.
There's the business mind and then there's sort of the Hollywood history and a project.
Well, there's the talent mind and there's the unique mind.
That's the two types.
If you do an episode on that, you and I could have a phenomenal conversation about it and we can get super academic and granular.
So you and I would have a great time.
I just don't think we can discuss the Kardashians and use the phrase super, super academic, but we've got to leave it there, Melissa.
Lovely to talk to you.
Come back.
Let's talk about celebrity culture next time because I've got a lot of strong views about it.
Anytime I'm there for you.
Great to talk to you.
All the very best.
Right, well, I knew they'd eventually come for the ham sandwiches.
Primary school children in Australia are being urged to ditch ham sandwiches because of the danger posed by processed foods.
Is that where we've got to now, really?
Ham is the new devil of the school lunchbox?
Compared to what I used to be forced to eat at school, this is luxury food up there with caviar and lobster.
Now, I've been eating ham sandwiches my entire life.
And look at me.
I'm perfectly normal.
We've got to stop wrapping our kids so tightly in cotton wool.
How are we going to prepare them for the real world when even a humble ham sandwich is deemed a clear and present danger to their lives?
Give me a sandwich, Tim, quick.
One person who's standing up to this madness is top Aussie breakfast presenter Carl Stavanovich.
That's a story that has got the whole country furious this morning.
It also has butchers and pork producers shouting out loud, hands off our ham.
This country's gone to the pack.
Yes, it has.
And a show of solidarity, Carl, to you in Australia, here is a ham sandwich.
I'm going to eat it.
Good night.
Keep it on Sinton and eat
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