Knowledge Fight - Bonus - JonBenet Ramsey
Aired: 2017-07-17
Duration: 01:48:10


=== JFK Moon Landing Truths (08:34) ===

[00:00:00]  All I do is smash heads, bro.
[00:00:13]  That's what they want you to think!
[00:00:15]  That's what they want you to think!
[00:00:31]  You to think!
[00:00:34]  That's what they want you to think!
[00:00:41]  I want you to think it right now!
[00:00:44]  Little children getting murdered in the middle!
[00:00:48]  You to think.
[00:00:50]  You to think.
[00:00:51]  That's what they want.
[00:00:54]  You to think.
[00:00:56]  They want you to think it right now.
[00:00:58]  Little children getting mad.
[00:00:59]  Welcome back to Freeze Point.
[00:01:00]  I'm Ben Freezing alongside me, my partner in truth, my partner in digging up the holes of lies.
[00:01:09]  My metaphor slipped.
[00:01:10]  Marty DeRosa, how are you doing?
[00:01:11]  I am a truth warrior.
[00:01:12]  Yes, the brain battling duo.
[00:01:14]  I want the world to know the secrets of truth.
[00:01:18]  That the few possess.
[00:01:19]  Yes.
[00:01:20]  The world.
[00:01:21]  The secret knowledge.
[00:01:22]  The world is owed these truths.
[00:01:25]  Do you believe that?
[00:01:26]  Do you firmly believe that everybody deserves to know the truth about everything?
[00:01:32]  Are there secrets that should and can be hidden?
[00:01:35]  See, I think then you're getting into this idea of look, the public, they can't handle this.
[00:01:42]  I'm keeping it from you for your own good.
[00:01:44]  Right.
[00:01:44]  You're getting like the watchman.
[00:01:46]  You know what I mean?
[00:01:47]  This whole idea of maybe.
[00:01:48]  They don't need to know this.
[00:01:50]  If you had this information, it would fuck up your life.
[00:01:52]  Right.
[00:01:53]  Like, what good would it do for us to really know that there are threatening alien races out there that we can't really do anything about?
[00:02:00]  Would that help your day?
[00:02:02]  Maybe.
[00:02:03]  How?
[00:02:04]  I'd live every day like it was my last because it could be.
[00:02:06]  Well, I mean, that's.
[00:02:07]  That's what I think they're afraid of.
[00:02:08]  That's the truth now.
[00:02:09]  That's what I think they're afraid of.
[00:02:10]  You think they're afraid of people living it up?
[00:02:12]  I think they're afraid of people going, oh, well, fuck, there's aliens.
[00:02:15]  Let's go crazy.
[00:02:19]  Or.
[00:02:20]  If they go, all right.
[00:02:22]  If they go like this, if they go, all right, guys.
[00:02:25]  Like, uh, so Bob is one of his last days in office.
[00:02:28]  And he's just like, you know what?
[00:02:29]  You guys have been so great to me.
[00:02:32]  I'm gonna.
[00:02:32]  Hold on.
[00:02:33]  Y'all have been wonderful.
[00:02:34]  I'm gonna get out of here on this.
[00:02:35]  I'm gonna leave you at this.
[00:02:36]  Uh, Dan, follow him at Freezing Point.
[00:02:39]  He's gonna put up a poll.
[00:02:40]  Give it up for your host.
[00:02:41]  I can tell you what happened in 9-11, JFK, um, uh, uh, moon landing.
[00:02:49]  He gives the public a gimme.
[00:02:50]  Yeah.
[00:02:50]  I'll give you one.
[00:02:51]  Uh huh.
[00:02:52]  But then they're all going, well, that's a good thing.
[00:02:53]  By the way, I would love that kind of traffic, by the way, to Freezing Point.
[00:02:55]  I'm sure you would.
[00:02:56]  If POTUS, if old POTUS, funny, follow Friday, follow my boy Freezing Point.
[00:03:01]  He's on to something.
[00:03:02]  Let me ask you this.
[00:03:03]  Mm hmm.
[00:03:03]  And this, I guess, is the, what the assumption is, something, shenanigans were up, were happening with JFK, 9-11.
[00:03:11]  Yeah.
[00:03:12]  Uh, Moon Landing.
[00:03:13]  Sure.
[00:03:14]  Uh, what else?
[00:03:15]  Throw one more at me.
[00:03:15]  And let's say the, the 2000 election, maybe?
[00:03:18]  Okay.
[00:03:19]  Which one would you want to know the, the skinny on?
[00:03:22]  Of those four.
[00:03:23]  Of those four.
[00:03:24]  Okay, going into it, we are assuming there is a skinny.
[00:03:27]  There's going to be some skinny.
[00:03:27]  So if I choose, like, there's no whammy.
[00:03:31]  I choose 9 11, and he's like, nah, we were straight up with you on that one.
[00:03:34]  JFK, yeah, and that's a possibility.
[00:03:36]  You could say JFK and be like, Dan, I know this is going to suck, but.
[00:03:39]  It was that one dude.
[00:03:39]  It was Oswald.
[00:03:40]  All right, so you get JFK, 9 11, or Moon Landing.
[00:03:45]  I would probably take JFK.
[00:03:47]  Yeah, right?
[00:03:48]  I feel like JFK has more tendrils that go out towards.
[00:03:54]  Towards everything.
[00:03:55]  And some people would believe, the conspiracy folk would believe that unraveling JFK, just by virtue of where it goes from there, you unravel 9 11.
[00:04:04]  Yeah.
[00:04:05]  So it could be like a ball rolling downhill thing.
[00:04:07]  Yeah.
[00:04:07]  I would take, what about you?
[00:04:08]  I'd take JFK.
[00:04:11]  If there were shenanigans with all of them.
[00:04:16]  Wait, you've just changed the question.
[00:04:18]  Well, oh, yeah, that's right, because there might not be shenanigans with any of them.
[00:04:22]  9 11, JFK.
[00:04:24]  I think you might be onto something.
[00:04:25]  If I had to top, if I had to go gold, metal, silver, since we are in the Olympic theme right now, I would say my gold medal, I'd want to know for sure JFK, because that was also a time where I felt like they were like, we can do whatever we want.
[00:04:39]  Yeah.
[00:04:40]  But the moon landings before JFK's assassination.
[00:04:42]  Yeah.
[00:04:43]  So, possibly you unravel that one.
[00:04:45]  It leads to JFK's assassination.
[00:04:47]  Maybe that had something to do with the moon cover up.
[00:04:49]  Because here's my thing with the moon landing.
[00:04:50]  Okay.
[00:04:51]  If we were communicating with them on the moon, they still can't.
[00:04:54]  That technology hasn't changed.
[00:04:57]  I can barely communicate on a cell phone with someone in a foreign country.
[00:05:02]  Or, if like.
[00:05:02]  Well, not every foreign country.
[00:05:04]  I should walk that back a tiny bit.
[00:05:06]  But there are areas on Earth where I can't communicate.
[00:05:08]  Or you ever watch the Super Bowl and they're like, oh, we have troops in Afghanistan who are watching live on the Armed Forces radio network.
[00:05:14]  Let's talk to them.
[00:05:15]  And they're like, What do you think of the Super Bowl?
[00:05:17]  And there's that pause, then they're like, it's great.
[00:05:21]  Uh, I hope my team wins.
[00:05:23]  And, I mean, that was back then.
[00:05:25]  Yeah.
[00:05:25]  Come on, man.
[00:05:26]  We have such sophisticated technology.
[00:05:27]  Come on, man.
[00:05:27]  And now everything's evolved so highly.
[00:05:30]  Yeah, it is pretty wild.
[00:05:31]  Oh, man.
[00:05:31]  And then I don't know if this statistic is true, but you always hear stuff like, the original spacecraft, they had the computing power of a TI-86 graphing calculator.
[00:05:41]  Uh huh.
[00:05:41]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:05:41]  What the fuck were you doing with a graphing calculator out in space?
[00:05:44]  Uh huh.
[00:05:45]  That doesn't make, it doesn't match up.
[00:05:47]  Uh, there's, there's, I mean, there's so many 9-11 questions.
[00:05:50]  True.
[00:05:51]  True.
[00:05:52]  But that's too, that's so current, you know, even though it was 15 years ago now.
[00:05:57]  I'm a little bummed that Trump backed off the Bush 9-11 stuff.
[00:06:00]  Yeah.
[00:06:01]  Yeah, cause, but you know, he didn't back off Ted Cruz's dad.
[00:06:04]  He didn't, he didn't back off of that.
[00:06:06]  I kind of, he's a guy who, and this, this goes back to that whole like, you know, Bill Hicks thing of like, oh, that first day you get in there that you shoot him.
[00:06:12]  You mean the Alex Jones thing?
[00:06:14]  Alex Jones is Bill Hicks.
[00:06:16]  A lot of people think that.
[00:06:18]  But there's that thing of like, you know, your first day in the office, they just show you, like, well, sit down, let's show you a video, and you see everything, and you're like, woo.
[00:06:24]  I feel like.
[00:06:25]  You see the other angle of the JFK assassination.
[00:06:28]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:06:28]  I feel like that's a fun picture, too, of that other lady who has a video camera.
[00:06:34]  Yeah.
[00:06:35]  But that.
[00:06:36]  Who died mysteriously.
[00:06:37]  Yeah.
[00:06:39]  That whole thing of like, I feel like Trump would be like, and another thing, I found this out.
[00:06:45]  I don't give a fuck, I'm 70.
[00:06:47]  I know, if he died.
[00:06:48]  I have demons.
[00:06:49]  If he got elected.
[00:06:50]  I mean, I'm sorry, not dies.
[00:06:51]  If he got elected, I think this would be the first president where he'd be like, hey, they tell everyone secrets.
[00:06:59]  They're not telling me secrets.
[00:07:00]  He might turn into a very bad, dark version of Bullworth.
[00:07:06]  Yeah.
[00:07:07]  Bullworth's maybe something I should revisit.
[00:07:09]  I haven't seen it since in the theater.
[00:07:11]  I watched it like five years ago and it holds up.
[00:07:14]  It's great.
[00:07:15]  For those of you who haven't seen it, it's just a movie about a guy who's running for president and he's deeply depressed.
[00:07:21]  So he decides to hire an assassin to kill him, uh, while he's on the campaign trail, and then decides that he doesn't, or he, he starts living truthfully, knowing that he's gonna die.
[00:07:32]  He's saying weird shit on the stand, uh, press conferences.
[00:07:35]  Starts hanging out with Halle Berry, meets a bunch of cool rappers.
[00:07:37]  Yeah, how does he get into the whole hypocrisy?
[00:07:39]  He starts drinking and smoking weed.
[00:07:41]  Yeah, and then he raps.
[00:07:42]  Is that douchey?
[00:07:43]  Is the rapping douchey?
[00:07:43]  That's terrible.
[00:07:44]  Yeah, that's, that's embarrassing.
[00:07:45]  But, I mean, Warren Beatty rapping is not what you wanna see.
[00:07:49]  Uh, then he decides through living truthfully that he doesn't wanna die, and tries to call off the assassination because he's, He's going up in the polls because he starts admitting that the government doesn't care about black people and all this shit.
[00:08:01]  It's very Shakespearean.
[00:08:02]  It's beautiful.
[00:08:03]  It's a great movie.
[00:08:04]  But Trump could be like that in the sense that, like, he starts telling you all these truths, but along the way are like, the government doesn't care about black people, and they shouldn't!
[00:08:14]  Yeah, I know.
[00:08:14]  He's a fucking monster.
[00:08:15]  Yeah, he's like, and then I'll tell you why.
[00:08:17]  Yeah.
[00:08:18]  It's good that we poison the water because you pores don't deserve health, that sort of thing.
[00:08:23]  But that's here nor there.
[00:08:24]  Yeah.
[00:08:25]  That's not why we're here today.
[00:08:26]  No, it isn't, but you know why we are here.
[00:08:30]  Marty?
[00:08:30]  Why?
[00:08:31]  Oh.
[00:08:32]  Dan?
[00:08:32]  I'm having trouble pulling up the song.

=== New Angles on Current Affairs (03:04) ===

[00:08:34]  Oh, Dan.
[00:08:34]  I was ready.
[00:08:36]  Here's why we're here.
[00:08:37]  You can edit that ahead and post?
[00:08:40]  Nope.
[00:08:40]  No edits.
[00:08:41]  In life, life, life, life.
[00:08:44]  You only get one take.
[00:08:46]  Some lives are shorter than others.
[00:08:50]  It's true.
[00:08:51]  Some lives end mysteriously because that's what they want you to think, All right, you sons of bitches who listen to this show.
[00:09:05]  You want us to talk about.
[00:09:07]  People being murdered.
[00:09:08]  Do you want us to talk about girls being murdered?
[00:09:10]  We found the youngest one we could.
[00:09:12]  You wanted the best.
[00:09:13]  You got it.
[00:09:14]  Well, the Lindbergh baby might be.
[00:09:15]  Was that a boy or a girl?
[00:09:16]  I don't know.
[00:09:17]  All right.
[00:09:17]  But we got, look, if, if, if there's just no, there's just no further for us to go after this episode.
[00:09:23]  If you're like me, if you're in your thirties and you grew up with Inside Edition, Current Affair.
[00:09:29]  Yeah.
[00:09:31]  Current Affair, that was like their, their thing when they'd show their logo.
[00:09:34]  Every fucking magazine journalism.
[00:09:37]  Magazine shows, but like Current Affair, that was my first, I think, my first foray.
[00:09:41]  Into kind of the conspiracy theory world because of their clunky journalism.
[00:09:47]  Uh huh.
[00:09:47]  And they were not afraid to like talk about some shit.
[00:09:50]  And it was probably wildly speculative and possibly libelous.
[00:09:54]  Oh, yeah.
[00:09:58]  This is one of those cases where I became a bit of a news junkie.
[00:10:03]  You were a truther.
[00:10:04]  And I got into this whole like, oh, you just put on CNN every night and people are going to be talking about this.
[00:10:08]  Yeah.
[00:10:08]  And there's always a new angle that's usually not quite a new angle.
[00:10:12]  It's a slightly new version of an old angle.
[00:10:14]  You start.
[00:10:15]  Even as a young kid, I started to kind of be like, oh, you guys don't have any more news, but you're just reaching.
[00:10:21]  It was the same thing with OJ years later.
[00:10:23]  I mean, hit him with what we're talking about.
[00:10:25]  We'll get to that in a second.
[00:10:26]  I was just thinking about how when I was a kid, I used to watch a bit of that too, but I'd also watch.
[00:10:31]  I became really obsessed with how on C SPAN 2, they would have the most boring shit in the world.
[00:10:36]  Yeah.
[00:10:37]  And on C SPAN or C SPAN 2, they'd be playing live footage of the House of Representatives or the Congress.
[00:10:43]  Or book readings.
[00:10:45]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:45]  I would just watch.
[00:10:47]  Hours of them, of Congress.
[00:10:49]  Really?
[00:10:50]  Yeah, because I was like, this is literally our government working.
[00:10:54]  Yeah.
[00:10:55]  And so often it was just old dudes killing time.
[00:10:59]  Oh, yeah.
[00:10:59]  Like, they weren't talking about anything.
[00:11:01]  They'd be, it's not even a filibuster.
[00:11:04]  It's just them sitting there waxing bullshit, you know?
[00:11:08]  Or a lot of it'll just be like, hello, we are here on the 12th day of August.
[00:11:13]  As many of you know, in the great state of Indiana, August 12th marks the birthday of one of our great, and they'll be like, so I think we should all give a hoot hoot to, and then someone else gets up, and I, I'd like to, I'd like to congratulate my, uh, noble, uh, cohort from the state of Indiana, and, uh, it is my duty to second his hoot hoot.
[00:11:38]  Right.

=== High School Band Memories (07:51) ===

[00:11:39]  It's just like, as a kid, I even realized, like, some of our government is just 40 year olds giving bad book reports.
[00:11:44]  Yeah.
[00:11:45]  And it made me really, like, sort of sad about, just about democracy as a whole.
[00:11:50]  Yeah.
[00:11:50]  Well, I mean, I, I, um, I just saw that documentary in HBO about big money donors and the access they get to politicians and stuff.
[00:12:00]  It's wild.
[00:12:00]  It's all just.
[00:12:04]  That might dovetail a little bit into our topic for today, but I don't know if it necessarily does.
[00:12:08]  Ladies and gentlemen, today we're talking about John Benet Ramsey.
[00:12:12]  Our little angel.
[00:12:13]  Where were you in 1996?
[00:12:16]  And I'm not asking you because I think you're a suspect.
[00:12:19]  I was in Cherville, Indiana, minding my own business.
[00:12:23]  I was in high school, a senior in high school.
[00:12:24]  Okay, so you weren't in Boulder?
[00:12:27]  No, I was not.
[00:12:28]  I've never been to Boulder.
[00:12:29]  I have.
[00:12:30]  I've actually, my parents and I used to drive across country to visit relatives in California.
[00:12:34]  Yeah.
[00:12:35]  Every summer.
[00:12:36]  And Boulder became like a really beloved town of my parents.
[00:12:39]  I think we found like a diner there we really liked.
[00:12:42]  So every time we would stop in Boulder.
[00:12:44]  My closest association with Boulder, Colorado in 1996 would have been that one of my favorite wrestlers at the time was Leon White, aka Big Van Vader, who hailed, or at least his character hailed from Boulder, Colorado.
[00:12:59]  Parts very known.
[00:13:01]  Very known.
[00:13:02]  And, uh, and, um, My buddy James Desolation Williams lives out there now.
[00:13:07]  Oh, yeah.
[00:13:08]  Also known as Iron Lungs.
[00:13:10]  I love that.
[00:13:10]  He may or may not be legally growing weed for a dispensary.
[00:13:15]  There you go.
[00:13:16]  Yeah, so that's pretty cool.
[00:13:17]  He landed on his feet with the nickname Iron Lungs.
[00:13:19]  I mean, anybody named Iron Lungs, you better be growing weed.
[00:13:22]  He and I once tried to smoke weed in a tent until we couldn't.
[00:13:26]  Oh, yeah.
[00:13:27]  We were like, I wonder at what point we have to stop.
[00:13:30]  I've had people try to OD on weed.
[00:13:32]  Yeah.
[00:13:34]  I don't think we were trying to OD.
[00:13:35]  I think we were trying to see, like, at what point.
[00:13:38]  Is smoking weed unappealing to the point where I don't want to raise my arm anymore?
[00:13:42]  Oh, okay.
[00:13:43]  And we couldn't find the point.
[00:13:44]  We were outside smoking for like three hours in the tent.
[00:13:46]  Yeah.
[00:13:46]  And just high out of our minds.
[00:13:48]  Yeah.
[00:13:49]  They were just like, this is boring.
[00:13:50]  Let's go watch something.
[00:13:52]  So we just went inside and watched TV.
[00:13:54]  That's what TV's for.
[00:13:55]  So you were in Sherrillville, Indiana.
[00:13:57]  Yes.
[00:13:58]  High school student, senior, ready to take on the world, thinking about graduating.
[00:14:02]  Long hair, long hair.
[00:14:04]  Oh, I've seen pictures of you in high school.
[00:14:06]  You looked crazy.
[00:14:07]  Like a mullet kind of thing.
[00:14:10]  If I'd seen you then, I'd never imagine the sleeve-tatted bad boy of crowd work that I see in front of me now.
[00:14:16]  He was in there, Dan.
[00:14:17]  Yeah.
[00:14:18]  He was in there.
[00:14:18]  But he was also getting into them theories.
[00:14:22]  Yeah.
[00:14:22]  He was getting into them.
[00:14:24]  I was 12?
[00:14:25]  I was in Missouri.
[00:14:27]  Yeah.
[00:14:27]  What would that be?
[00:14:28]  Like 7th, 8th grade?
[00:14:30]  Sure.
[00:14:31]  I was a douche.
[00:14:32]  I was also.
[00:14:33]  I was a big old loser, my friend.
[00:14:34]  A big old TV watcher.
[00:14:36]  Yeah.
[00:14:36]  What was your favorite show?
[00:14:38]  Parker Lewis Can't Lose?
[00:14:39]  What was on back then?
[00:14:40]  Bam, bam, bam.
[00:14:41]  He had a Scott theme song.
[00:14:42]  He did.
[00:14:42]  Uh, Parker Lose Can't Lose.
[00:14:43]  Kubiak!
[00:14:45]  Yeah, I saw Kubiak, uh, in LA at a, at a Second City show.
[00:14:49]  This checks out.
[00:14:49]  He just was hanging out there supporting the show.
[00:14:51]  He knew somebody in the cast.
[00:14:52]  He was in the audience, not on stage.
[00:14:54]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:14:54]  And I was confused.
[00:14:55]  Kubes.
[00:14:55]  Oh, I gotta say something to him, but he, he had left at the time, uh, or before I could.
[00:14:59]  Pete and Pete looks exactly the same, just gray hair.
[00:15:02]  Oh, that's nice.
[00:15:02]  Uh.
[00:15:03]  He was not an unattractive man, the Kubes.
[00:15:05]  Yeah.
[00:15:05]  96, I'm watching, uh, you know, I'm, I'm watching Boy Meets World.
[00:15:08]  Sure.
[00:15:09]  I'm fucking with, uh.
[00:15:11]  Of course, we're still.
[00:15:12]  90210.
[00:15:13]  Melrose Place at a certain point.
[00:15:15]  I was on that.
[00:15:16]  That would be on Mondays from 7 to 8, and then Raw would be 8 to 10.
[00:15:21]  But then we started getting into Nitro, and it was just gone.
[00:15:24]  Do you remember what you got for Christmas that year?
[00:15:28]  Do you have any Christmas memories?
[00:15:29]  Oh, 96.
[00:15:33]  Probably, let's see, 96.
[00:15:36]  Probably some CDs.
[00:15:37]  Yeah.
[00:15:38]  Maybe a Stabbing Westward CD.
[00:15:40]  I don't know if I was a Stabbing Westward guy.
[00:15:42]  What do I have to do to make you buy this CD?
[00:15:47]  They're Chicago guys.
[00:15:48]  Are they?
[00:15:49]  Yeah.
[00:15:49]  I liked them when they were on the radio, but I don't, I think I got their album and didn't like it.
[00:15:53]  I think they're a band who I'm like, I'm cool listening to you on the radio because Q101 would play them all the time.
[00:15:58]  I didn't like most of the sound, but then they got that synth in there.
[00:16:01]  There was them.
[00:16:03]  There was Killing Hannah here.
[00:16:04]  That was a big band like that.
[00:16:05]  I don't know if they broke to.
[00:16:07]  I want to be a Kennedy.
[00:16:10]  Oh, my favorite show, speaking of that, was I was big on either MTV's 120 Minutes.
[00:16:15]  Sure.
[00:16:16]  Pinfield.
[00:16:16]  With Matt Pinfield.
[00:16:17]  This is Matt Pinfield here.
[00:16:18]  You just heard Stabbing Westward and they're going to be on tour with Killing Hannah.
[00:16:24]  Yeah.
[00:16:24]  So that would be.
[00:16:25]  Good double bill.
[00:16:25]  That would be that.
[00:16:27]  But then in Chicago, we had JBTV with Jerry Bryant, who looked like Jerry Garcia.
[00:16:31]  Okay.
[00:16:32]  And he would play videos.
[00:16:33]  He was this big hippie, but he'd play like punk rock.
[00:16:35]  Is there a lot of local videos?
[00:16:36]  Yeah.
[00:16:37]  Oh, that's cool.
[00:16:37]  That's a cool little video.
[00:16:39]  But mostly he'd play just like punk rock and ska videos.
[00:16:41]  And I remember I would just pop in a VHS cassette and then I would have it in there.
[00:16:46]  And if a video started that looked like I might be into it, I would hit record.
[00:16:49]  I did the same thing with BET Uncut when I was at Rump Shaker late nights.
[00:16:55]  White Girls.
[00:16:57]  Shabba Ranks.
[00:16:58]  Oh, Shabba Ranks was all over that shit.
[00:17:00]  Mr. Loverman was one of my backyard wrestling names back in the day.
[00:17:02]  Mr. Loverman.
[00:17:03]  I love it.
[00:17:03]  Yeah.
[00:17:04]  There was one video that I wish I could find.
[00:17:06]  It's never been put on YouTube.
[00:17:07]  It's by this guy named Nicodemus.
[00:17:09]  Oh, okay.
[00:17:10]  And he had a song called Make It Shake.
[00:17:12]  He's like, fine little cutie, now make it shake.
[00:17:14]  But he has like two lines in it that have haunted me.
[00:17:17]  And I want to make sure I'm not making them up.
[00:17:19]  Okay.
[00:17:20]  I'm pretty sure I'm not.
[00:17:21]  One of them, he says he's going to beat up that pussy like a Roy Jones fight.
[00:17:25]  Aww.
[00:17:25]  I was like, wow.
[00:17:26]  That's awesome.
[00:17:27]  Yeah.
[00:17:28]  The other one is, I like the way it smells, but I ain't going to eat it, yo.
[00:17:32]  Yeah, this is back when black guys didn't go down on women.
[00:17:34]  But he liked the way it smelled.
[00:17:35]  Sure.
[00:17:36]  That's bizarre.
[00:17:37]  Sure.
[00:17:37]  This was a, this was a time that I was just talking to somebody about this where like now rappers will talk about like eating ass and all this stuff.
[00:17:43]  And I'm like, man, back when I was in high school, you guys bragged about not going down on women.
[00:17:48]  Yeah, that was a big reputation.
[00:17:49]  It was, but liking the way something smells and not eating it is exactly how I feel about olives.
[00:17:54]  There's, there's, there's a, there was my song or my song that comes to mind.
[00:18:00]  I think this was on 120 minutes.
[00:18:02]  I think there, I think there was a white.
[00:18:04]  I don't know if rapper's the right word.
[00:18:06]  Iman?
[00:18:07]  No.
[00:18:08]  His name was, I think, Jesse James?
[00:18:10]  Huh.
[00:18:11]  There might have been a different spelling of that.
[00:18:12]  There's a couple named Jesse James.
[00:18:13]  And his, and his song was, She Got a Body Like a White Girl.
[00:18:17]  It was like, Shake It, Baby.
[00:18:19]  He got a body like a white girl.
[00:18:22]  That was when there was those, there was a bunch of those kind of guys, of like the funky white guys.
[00:18:27]  The Bruno Mars progenitors.
[00:18:28]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:18:30]  Last generation's, uh, Pompadour wearing dickheads.
[00:18:33]  Yeah.
[00:18:33]  Jimmy.
[00:18:35]  Jimmy's Chicken Shack?
[00:18:36]  Jimmy's Chicken Shack.
[00:18:38]  Yeah.
[00:18:39]  Do I do?
[00:18:40]  Do I do?
[00:18:41]  And I feel like those were guys who were like.
[00:18:44]  Someone I know got a hand job at a Jimmy's Chicken Chicken.
[00:18:47]  That's wonderful.
[00:18:48]  I can't remember who it was.
[00:18:49]  It's probably Nick.
[00:18:50]  Jam sandwich.
[00:18:51]  He got a jam sandwich.
[00:18:52]  It was someone, I think it was, the story was told on this podcast, and I can't remember who it was.
[00:18:57]  Wow.
[00:18:57]  That's amazing.
[00:18:58]  You're going to have to check your any Freezing Pointer archivist.
[00:19:02]  We need a Freezing Point historian.
[00:19:03]  Those were the kind of guys who I felt like they were like, shit, man, this punk band's not working out, or this ska band's not working out.
[00:19:10]  Like, we got to figure something out.
[00:19:11]  We gotta grow dreads.
[00:19:12]  And then it was just like, what about?
[00:19:14]  And then they went along with it and did it.
[00:19:16]  They had a fateful band meeting.
[00:19:18]  I was also in 96 getting into going to Hollywood Video and getting them independent fucking films, man.
[00:19:24]  Yeah, you were talking kids.
[00:19:28]  We're talking clerks.

=== Ryan Beck and the Note (05:44) ===

[00:19:30]  We're talking.
[00:19:31]  What was clerks?
[00:19:31]  Like 95, 94?
[00:19:33]  Yeah, because Mall Rats was like 97.
[00:19:36]  Yeah.
[00:19:36]  That seems like right about when that shit was really breaking.
[00:19:40]  Tarantino was big.
[00:19:41]  Yeah.
[00:19:42]  Well, something else happened in 96.
[00:19:45]  And it was dark.
[00:19:45]  Yep.
[00:19:46]  The young girl went down.
[00:19:49]  December 26th, 1996, the day after Christmas.
[00:19:53]  It's always those, like, day after, day before, day of a big holiday.
[00:19:56]  That's so horrible.
[00:19:58]  I mean, there's layers of horribleness, but just the date alone is fucking awful.
[00:20:03]  Yeah, it's like also to the family.
[00:20:05]  It's like, well, enjoy Christmas now.
[00:20:07]  Yeah.
[00:20:08]  I mean, there's a lot of ways you can go about that thought.
[00:20:12]  Yeah.
[00:20:12]  Because some people believe that the parents didn't have such a bad Christmas.
[00:20:17]  Because they may have gotten away with murder.
[00:20:19]  Murder.
[00:20:20]  So on the 26th, early in the morning, John Ramsey, John Bennett Ramsey, and Patricia Ramsey, the parents of John Benet, Discover a ransom note on their staircase, which I will pull up now and read in its entirety because it's a bizarre, bizarre note.
[00:20:42]  Have you ever read the ransom note?
[00:20:44]  Nope.
[00:20:45]  Can't wait.
[00:20:46]  It was found on the staircase.
[00:20:49]  And one of the things that's kind of interesting about this is that there are alternating stories that Patricia Ramsey gave about finding the note.
[00:21:00]  In one telling, she says that she went to John Bonet's room, saw that she wasn't there.
[00:21:04]  Went downstairs, found the note.
[00:21:06]  Later, she said that she found the note, freaked out, checked the room, and found that she wasn't there.
[00:21:10]  Oh, I'm aware of the stone.
[00:21:11]  I'm sorry, because they used to think it might have been a disgruntled employee.
[00:21:15]  I don't know how that would be the case, though.
[00:21:17]  So the note is, Mr. Ramsey, listen carefully.
[00:21:20]  We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction.
[00:21:24]  We respect your business, but not the country that it serves.
[00:21:27]  At this time, we have your daughter in our possession.
[00:21:30]  She is safe and unharmed, and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.
[00:21:36]  You will withdraw $118,000 from your account.
[00:21:40]  $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills.
[00:21:46]  Make sure that you bring an adequate-size attaché to the bank.
[00:21:49]  When you get home, you'll put the money in a brown paper bag.
[00:21:52]  I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery.
[00:21:56]  The delivery will be exhausting, so I advise you to be rested.
[00:22:00]  That's a strange sentence.
[00:22:01]  Yeah, I'm very weird.
[00:22:02]  It's like, okay, we're going to make you drop it off somewhere, but there's going to be A, uh, a double dare style obstacle course on the way.
[00:22:11]  You're gonna be exhausted.
[00:22:12]  Or it's like Fargo, and he's like, it will be snowing.
[00:22:14]  Please dress accordingly.
[00:22:15]  Yeah.
[00:22:16]  You'll have to make your way up the aggro crag in order to drop off the money.
[00:22:21]  Uh, so we, yeah, we want you to be arrested.
[00:22:24]  Uh, if we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an early pickup of your daughter.
[00:22:33]  Any deviation from my instruction will result in the immediate execution of your daughter.
[00:22:37]  You will also be denied her remains for proper burial.
[00:22:41]  The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you, so I advise you not to provoke them.
[00:22:46]  Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as the police, FBI, etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded.
[00:22:52]  If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies.
[00:22:55]  If you alert bank authorities, she dies.
[00:22:57]  If the money is any way marked or tampered with, she dies.
[00:23:00]  You will be scanned for electronic devices, and if any are found, she dies.
[00:23:04]  You can try to deceive us, but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics.
[00:23:09]  You stand a ninety-nine percent chance of killing your daughter if you try and outsmart us.
[00:23:13]  Follow our instructions and you stand a hundred percent chance of getting her back.
[00:23:17]  You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities.
[00:23:21]  Don't try and grow a brain, John.
[00:23:23]  You're not the only fat cat around, so don't think that killing will be difficult.
[00:23:28]  Don't underestimate us, John.
[00:23:30]  Use that good southern common sense of yours.
[00:23:32]  It's up to you now, John.
[00:23:34]  Victory.
[00:23:34]  Signed SBTC.
[00:23:38]  So that's a two and a half page note that they left.
[00:23:40]  Yeah.
[00:23:41]  Which is excessive.
[00:23:42]  Yeah.
[00:23:42]  That's a long note.
[00:23:44]  Did they do the old timey movie cliche of cutting the letters out of a newspaper?
[00:23:48]  Nope.
[00:23:48]  Handwritten.
[00:23:49]  Okay.
[00:23:49]  Handwritten note, which comes up a little bit later, actually.
[00:23:52]  Can't wait.
[00:23:53]  One of the things that's very interesting about this note is, uh, that it includes references to current movies.
[00:23:59]  There is, uh, Don't Try and Grow a Brain is a line from Speed that Dennis Hopper delivers, and the repetition of If You Do Blank, She Dies.
[00:24:09]  If You Do Blank, She Dies.
[00:24:10]  What's that from?
[00:24:10]  That's from Ransom.
[00:24:11]  Oh, okay.
[00:24:12]  The movie Ransom, which had come out that year.
[00:24:14]  So, there are some weird elements of that that.
[00:24:19]  That was a Mel Gibson movie, right?
[00:24:20]  Yeah.
[00:24:21]  You Have My Daughter?
[00:24:22]  Wait, that's the wrong one.
[00:24:23]  That's another Mel Gibson movie.
[00:24:24]  Yeah.
[00:24:24]  Do You Kill My Daughter?
[00:24:26]  He has a terrible Boston accent in that movie.
[00:24:29]  And me and my buddy Ryan Beck, comedian in New York, Ryan Beck, used to always make fun of choo-choo, my daughter.
[00:24:36]  So, one way or another, they find the note.
[00:24:39]  And this is around 5:45 a.m.
[00:24:43]  They find the note and they call the police.
[00:24:45]  Oh, man.
[00:24:45]  Right away, you're calling the police?
[00:24:46]  What are you doing?
[00:24:48]  I'm crying.
[00:24:50]  I'm calling the police.
[00:24:50]  If your cat isn't here in the morning, I assume she got out.
[00:24:54]  No, no, no.
[00:24:55]  And there's a letter that says, hey, Dan.
[00:24:57]  We're some foreign faction.
[00:24:59]  We're a foreign faction.
[00:25:00]  Don't, don't go growing a brain.
[00:25:02]  Yeah.
[00:25:03]  Uh, what other movie quotes can we put in there?
[00:25:05]  Uh, I don't know.
[00:25:07]  I get, I get.
[00:25:07]  Give any drugs.
[00:25:08]  It'd be pretty cool if you did, man.

=== Vin Diesel Shooting Suspects (15:17) ===

[00:25:14]  Some basic infuse from back in the day.
[00:25:22]  Yeah.
[00:25:24]  Uh, I, will ask you, do not go to the police.
[00:25:32]  You're calling the police right away?
[00:25:33]  No, if it's about my cat, I'm going to let it go.
[00:25:36]  I love my cat, but first of all, my bank statement is very low.
[00:25:41]  Way under $100,000.
[00:25:42]  I don't know.
[00:25:42]  I just said $100,000.
[00:25:44]  I can't even give him that.
[00:25:45]  Damn.
[00:25:45]  You're ready to kiss this cacabaya for $100?
[00:25:48]  I don't know.
[00:25:49]  I don't, I'm not going to give him $100.
[00:25:51]  Would you have called the police right away if you're the Ramses?
[00:25:53]  Yeah, probably.
[00:25:54]  Okay.
[00:25:54]  Because I'd be in way over my head.
[00:25:56]  Okay.
[00:25:57]  I mean, I'm just curious.
[00:25:58]  I don't, I don't know too many stories of people who were like, you know what?
[00:26:02]  There was a random.
[00:26:03]  A ransom note.
[00:26:04]  They said, uh, you know, don't involve the cops.
[00:26:07]  We didn't involve the cops.
[00:26:08]  We got the money.
[00:26:09]  Everything worked out.
[00:26:10]  And God forbid it worked out.
[00:26:12]  And thank God we didn't call the authorities.
[00:26:14]  It's super easy for me to say this because I'm unconnected and sort of dispassionate.
[00:26:19]  And I'm not, you know, I don't have any ties to anybody.
[00:26:21]  And I don't have a kid, so I don't know those feelings.
[00:26:24]  But I remember back when I worked at a gas station, uh, they were like, if someone robs you, do whatever they say, but don't leave.
[00:26:31]  If you leave with them, you're dead.
[00:26:33]  Yes, yes, yes.
[00:26:33]  Because they will never, risk.
[00:26:36]  If they, if that now you've added kidnapping to it, if you leave, you might as well.
[00:26:40]  They say that to women to like never get in a car.
[00:26:42]  You might as well fight and die because you're going to die if you leave.
[00:26:46]  Yes.
[00:26:47]  I think that there's some similar feeling that I have about kidnapping victims.
[00:26:51]  Yeah.
[00:26:51]  Like if you are someone and they've left a ransom note, odds are when you find that note, the person's already dead.
[00:26:56]  Cause no one could risk the possibility of being fingered.
[00:26:59]  Yeah.
[00:27:00]  Of like them.
[00:27:01]  But there are.
[00:27:02]  Wherever you take the person is now tainted.
[00:27:04]  There's a whole new world of evidence wherever the holding cell is or whatever it is.
[00:27:07]  This is a thing, this is a thing where It's a dumb.
[00:27:10]  Like in Mexico, where kidnapping for money is more of a, I almost said legit business, but it's more of an industry.
[00:27:19]  Yeah.
[00:27:19]  Have you seen Mandabala, that documentary?
[00:27:21]  Uh-uh.
[00:27:22]  I recommend it.
[00:27:22]  Mandabala.
[00:27:23]  Yeah, it has to do with that.
[00:27:24]  Have you seen Man on Fire?
[00:27:25]  Yeah.
[00:27:26]  With the Vin Diesel movie?
[00:27:27]  No.
[00:27:28]  That's a Denzel movie.
[00:27:29]  It's fucking awesome.
[00:27:30]  Have you seen Man on a Wire?
[00:27:31]  Man on a Wire.
[00:27:32]  That one's great.
[00:27:33]  Yeah.
[00:27:33]  Guy going across the Twin Towers?
[00:27:35]  Vin Diesel.
[00:27:35]  Vin Diesel?
[00:27:36]  Yeah.
[00:27:37]  So.
[00:27:38]  I hear he's a candy ass.
[00:27:39]  He is.
[00:27:40]  I am Team Bring It.
[00:27:41]  I am Team Boots to Asses.
[00:27:43]  Fuck you, Vin Diesel.
[00:27:46]  My sources at TMZ told me that the crew was all this rock guy is the shit.
[00:27:51]  He's the best.
[00:27:52]  How could you not love him?
[00:27:54]  He seems like the coolest guy in the world.
[00:27:56]  Luda.
[00:27:57]  Luda's trying to back up Vin Diesel.
[00:28:00]  Guess what, Luda?
[00:28:01]  You're done.
[00:28:02]  You're out of my circle.
[00:28:03]  Is this going to split up the love fest between Luda and Tyrese?
[00:28:06]  I don't know where.
[00:28:07]  Tune in to find out.
[00:28:07]  I don't know where Tyrese is in it, but Luda went Team Vin.
[00:28:10]  Real quick conspiracy theory I have before we get back to this horrifying story.
[00:28:14]  The Rock and Vin Diesel are the same person.
[00:28:15]  No.
[00:28:16]  I think that they're going to interact at WrestleMania.
[00:28:19]  I think this is all a lead up to WrestleMania next year.
[00:28:23]  Because, uh, Fast 8 comes out two weeks after WrestleMania.
[00:28:27]  I think this is all a massive publicity stunt that started really early.
[00:28:30]  Wow.
[00:28:31]  Do you not think that is possible?
[00:28:33]  No.
[00:28:33]  Why not?
[00:28:34]  The Rock was genuinely upset.
[00:28:36]  Please.
[00:28:37]  I know Dwayne.
[00:28:39]  And I know, I know when my boy is genuinely upset.
[00:28:41]  You know him.
[00:28:41]  You have a sense for him.
[00:28:43]  I, I have a real, I don't know.
[00:28:47]  I could tell.
[00:28:48]  I know when he's shooting.
[00:28:49]  And he was shooting.
[00:28:50]  He was shooting from the hip.
[00:28:51]  All right.
[00:28:51]  Let's get into this.
[00:28:52]  Yeah.
[00:28:52]  So they find this, this ransom note.
[00:28:54]  Yes.
[00:28:54]  And they call the police.
[00:28:55]  Right away.
[00:28:56]  Yeah.
[00:28:56]  Well, I think part of it, too, is that, like, well, they're going to call between eight and ten.
[00:28:59]  We're not prepared to handle that phone call.
[00:29:01]  We got to get, you know, we, we, so a couple of cops come over and they did.
[00:29:06]  Now that's crazy.
[00:29:08]  Like, cops are just coming over, parked cars in front of the house.
[00:29:11]  I'm not sure.
[00:29:11]  I'm not sure how they handled that, but a couple came over and did a search, a very basic search, and they concluded that there was no evidence of a break-in.
[00:29:19]  Yeah.
[00:29:20]  Uh, and they took off.
[00:29:21]  Then Detective Lisa Arndt showed up, and she was the only cop that was present during The phone call period.
[00:29:29]  Between 8 and 10, she was there.
[00:29:31]  She noted a number of things that were a little bit out of the ordinary, such as John Bennett Ramsey got caught up reading the mail during the time that there was the window.
[00:29:43]  And the most damning thing, or at least the most weird thing, was that when 10 o'clock rolled around and the call hadn't come in, no one seemed concerned.
[00:29:54]  There wasn't like a, the time is up and they haven't called.
[00:29:56]  No one was freaking out in any way.
[00:29:59]  And in an interview, the detective.
[00:30:01]  It was like that kind of was really weird to me.
[00:30:05]  I like those, you know, like when you watch like a Dateline NBC or, you know, First 48 or whatever, forensic files, and there are those cops notice like, yeah, it was real weird.
[00:30:18]  You know, like Dan had his son missing and he just kept doing a crossword puzzle and he was so fucking obsessed with his crossword puzzle.
[00:30:25]  Like, I was a little like, what's going on with this guy?
[00:30:28]  Cops know a lot of tells, just like good poker players know tells that you don't even know you're doing.
[00:30:33]  Mm hmm.
[00:30:33]  A lot of cops are able to pick up on very subconscious behaviors.
[00:30:37]  Um, so, after 10 o'clock passes, the call hasn't come in.
[00:30:41]  Detective Arndt decides, uh, that we gotta search this house.
[00:30:46]  And see if there's any clues that we can come up with.
[00:30:48]  So, she's called for backup a couple times.
[00:30:51]  People aren't there.
[00:30:52]  No one's come.
[00:30:54]  Uh, which is a little bit weird also.
[00:30:56]  Uh, so they, she and, uh, John Ramsey and his friend Fleet White, uh, decide that, first of all, great name.
[00:31:04]  Fleet White.
[00:31:04]  It's my boy Fleet.
[00:31:05]  You kidding me?
[00:31:05]  It's my boy Fleet.
[00:31:06]  Fleet White!
[00:31:07]  Sounds rich.
[00:31:08]  Uh, yeah, very rich.
[00:31:09]  Everyone involved in this story, except for the cops, is very rich.
[00:31:11]  Fleet sounds wealthy.
[00:31:13]  Yeah, he has a Fleet in his name and his driveway.
[00:31:16]  Oh man.
[00:31:17]  So they search the house, uh, John and Fleet White go downstairs.
[00:31:21]  Fleet White.
[00:31:21]  You don't even have to tell me he's an amazing golfer because I believe it.
[00:31:25]  Uh, they go downstairs and that's where they begin their search in the basement.
[00:31:29]  They're specifically instructed not to touch anything.
[00:31:32]  Just look around.
[00:31:33]  If you see something, don't touch anything.
[00:31:34]  See something, say something.
[00:31:35]  Yeah.
[00:31:36]  So they go downstairs and they search the bathroom and like a training room and then they search the wine cellar and that's where they find her body.
[00:31:44]  John Bennett Ramsey picks up the body.
[00:31:47]  Ah, John.
[00:31:48]  And he carries her up the stairs, and the detective is like, What are you doing?
[00:31:53]  What are you doing?
[00:31:53]  And so he puts her down.
[00:31:55]  Uh, she was found with, she was covered in a blanket that apparently had special significance to her.
[00:32:00]  Not entirely sure what, but in every source it said she was covered in her special white blanket.
[00:32:04]  Okay.
[00:32:04]  Which is a strange phrasing to be universal.
[00:32:06]  Did you have a special blanket growing up?
[00:32:08]  I don't think I did.
[00:32:10]  If I did, I don't remember it, but I don't think that's that uncommon.
[00:32:12]  I don't remember a lot of stuff.
[00:32:14]  I think, oh, that's my favorite.
[00:32:15]  You have a little blankie?
[00:32:16]  I think I had a wubby.
[00:32:18]  You had a wubby?
[00:32:18]  I think it's called a wubby.
[00:32:20]  And then my nephew, or was it a dip?
[00:32:22]  I think it was my nephew's, was his Dinny Ghoul.
[00:32:25]  Dinny Ghoul?
[00:32:26]  Yeah, his Dinny Ghoul.
[00:32:27]  I had my wubby, which was a white blanket with sheep on it.
[00:32:30]  Aww.
[00:32:31]  I remember more personified things, like I had a Teddy Ruxpin that I loved.
[00:32:35]  But I don't remember blankets and stuff like that.
[00:32:37]  I remembered things I could communicate with.
[00:32:39]  Okay.
[00:32:39]  Kind of.
[00:32:40]  Even though they couldn't talk back.
[00:32:41]  Or could they?
[00:32:42]  Oh boy.
[00:32:43]  So she was found with a nylon cord around her neck.
[00:32:46]  Her wrists were tied above her head, and duct tape was over her mouth.
[00:32:50]  Which is grim.
[00:32:52]  That is a bummer, Marty.
[00:32:55]  Can I be a real creep here and ask a question?
[00:32:57]  Yes.
[00:32:57]  What was she wearing?
[00:32:59]  That is a real creep.
[00:33:00]  I'm sorry.
[00:33:01]  She was wearing a sleeping gown and underwear.
[00:33:07]  I'm sorry.
[00:33:08]  What does a six year old wear to bed?
[00:33:09]  It's essentially that.
[00:33:10]  It's nothing uncommon.
[00:33:12]  It's apparently also a sleeping gown that she really loved.
[00:33:15]  So people put some significance into that clothes being all.
[00:33:20]  It was Christmas night.
[00:33:21]  Yeah, it was Christmas night.
[00:33:23]  You would probably wear your favorite thing to bed.
[00:33:25]  So, the autopsy showed that she died of asphyxiation, but she was also the victim of a massive skull fracture.
[00:33:33]  So, when talking about this, the police have said that she was likely hit really hard with a blunt object like a flashlight or something like that, and she was knocked deeply unconscious at that point.
[00:33:46]  So, the thing that's really bizarre is that it would have killed her eventually, that kind of a head wound, but 45 minutes to two hours after she was knocked unconscious, She was killed by asphyxiation.
[00:33:59]  Damn.
[00:33:59]  So, this is a murder that took a long time.
[00:34:02]  That's one of the things that we're going to keep coming back to that I don't understand.
[00:34:07]  Okay.
[00:34:08]  The person who did this was in no rush.
[00:34:11]  Wow.
[00:34:11]  Just fucked up.
[00:34:12]  Okay.
[00:34:13]  So, the autopsy also showed that there was no evidence of rape, but sexual assault could not be ruled out.
[00:34:19]  Okay.
[00:34:20]  Further, it showed that she had eaten pineapple a few hours before her death.
[00:34:26]  Now, if you put her death in the morning, that's a little weird.
[00:34:29]  Marty.
[00:34:31]  I'm good.
[00:34:32]  I'm sorry.
[00:34:35]  Old pineapple comic express over here.
[00:34:37]  Fucking giggling at pineapple.
[00:34:38]  I'm stupid, jackass.
[00:34:40]  I'm sorry.
[00:34:41]  Go ahead.
[00:34:42]  Uh, so, pictures from the crime scene and around the house showed a bowl of pineapple on the kitchen table.
[00:34:49]  Okay.
[00:34:49]  This bowl had her brother's fingerprints on it and a spoon in it.
[00:34:54]  So it's probably safe to assume that she had eaten pineapple out of this bowl in the morning.
[00:34:59]  Okay.
[00:35:00]  But her brother, according to her parents, And, uh, I mean, they were the only people who would have any information on this.
[00:35:06]  Her, uh, her brother was asleep the entire time until the police showed up.
[00:35:11]  How old's brother?
[00:35:12]  He was nine years old at the time.
[00:35:14]  How old was John Bonet?
[00:35:15]  Burke was his name.
[00:35:17]  She was six.
[00:35:18]  Okay.
[00:35:19]  So, if you really think about- So the only four people in the house were Burke.
[00:35:23]  Yeah.
[00:35:23]  John Bonet.
[00:35:24]  Yeah.
[00:35:24]  And the parents.
[00:35:25]  That's the only people that we know of were in the house.
[00:35:28]  There were a lot of people who speculate wildly about, uh, stuff.
[00:35:32]  I can't wait.
[00:35:33]  Uh, but yeah, they're the only people we can definitively prove were there.
[00:35:36]  Okay.
[00:35:38]  That was a weird feeling burp.
[00:35:40]  Honestly, a lot of this research made me deeply uncomfortable and very nauseous.
[00:35:47]  Uh, but, uh, okay, so she had this pineapple, which is strange.
[00:35:53]  Because if they are finding this note at 5 in the morning, and she was conceivably attacked 45 minutes to 2 hours before, then that puts it at like 4 in the morning.
[00:36:06]  Then you consider that she'd eaten this pineapple a couple hours before.
[00:36:10]  That could have been 2 in the morning, 1, 2 in the morning.
[00:36:12]  Six year olds have no business being up at 1, 2 in the morning.
[00:36:15]  Six year old wouldn't really necessarily be able to make herself a bowl of pineapple.
[00:36:21]  Of course, it's also unclear if they had prepared pineapple ready or if she would have needed to cut the pineapple.
[00:36:25]  They had money, I'm sure they had prepared.
[00:36:26]  A six year old has no idea how to cut a pineapple.
[00:36:29]  I'm 32, I have no idea.
[00:36:31]  Look, I'd probably have a lot of waste with that.
[00:36:33]  I'd probably waste a lot of the pineapple cutting it.
[00:36:35]  You'd get 5% of the pineapple out.
[00:36:38]  Absolutely.
[00:36:40]  So, the police in the case have been highly criticized for failing to secure the crime scene, allowing evidence to be.
[00:36:51]  Suspect because of how little they did to secure the scene.
[00:36:54]  That whole idea of, hey, family member, help me search the house.
[00:36:58]  Strange.
[00:36:59]  That's bad.
[00:36:59]  That's Bush.
[00:37:00]  Yeah.
[00:37:01]  Bush League.
[00:37:01]  At that point, you're not expecting a dead body to be found.
[00:37:06]  No.
[00:37:06]  Because if you're going in and it's a kidnapping, no case of kidnapping with ransom notes has ever been, like, this is one of the reasons that this is an intriguing case to a lot of people, is that if you're kidnapping someone and you want a ransom, there's no reason for you to kill them in the basement.
[00:37:24]  Like, that never happens.
[00:37:26]  That's counterintuitive.
[00:37:27]  It doesn't match up.
[00:37:27]  Counterproductive.
[00:37:28]  At all.
[00:37:29]  Yeah.
[00:37:29]  And the fact that her body wasn't really hidden, it was just under a blanket.
[00:37:33]  The person who did it knew that her body would be found fairly quick.
[00:37:36]  Yeah, it wasn't like she was in a crawl space or anything like that, where then they get the money and they're like, haha, check your crawl space.
[00:37:42]  Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:37:43]  Dang it.
[00:37:44]  Yeah, we're out.
[00:37:45]  Haha, SBTC for life.
[00:37:46]  Fuck you too, fleet.
[00:37:48]  Uh, so, that's some, that's a circumstance that is just fucking bananas bizarre.
[00:37:53]  Okay.
[00:37:53]  So, where, where's your head at now?
[00:37:55]  My head right now.
[00:37:57]  Put yourself in the investigator's shoes.
[00:38:00]  Well, especially too, if I'm picking up some weird, like, dad's just checking the mail and shit.
[00:38:06]  Doesn't seem to be too distraught.
[00:38:07]  I mean, you want to not instantly show up and be like, where were you, parents?
[00:38:15]  What's your fucking deal?
[00:38:16]  You know what I mean?
[00:38:16]  Coming in like Colombo.
[00:38:18]  Yeah.
[00:38:19]  Let me ask you another question, Mr. Bennett.
[00:38:21]  Or Bennett, Ramsey.
[00:38:24]  He goes by John Bennett pretty regularly.
[00:38:26]  That's a rich guy.
[00:38:26]  It's very confusing, too, because John Bennett.
[00:38:29]  Yeah.
[00:38:29]  So, I think.
[00:38:30]  It was his mom's maiden name, the grandma of John Binet's.
[00:38:33]  Okay.
[00:38:34]  Bennett.
[00:38:35]  I think that if I'm that investigator, I don't, I'm not asking for help around the house.
[00:38:42]  No.
[00:38:42]  Like, that's where it's like, hey, we're all gonna get the neighbors together.
[00:38:45]  We're gonna all skip, we're gonna comb the neighborhood.
[00:38:47]  That's when you start getting.
[00:38:49]  But that's like a week down the road.
[00:38:50]  Sure, that's when you start getting non police officers.
[00:38:54]  It's funny.
[00:38:54]  When you deputize people.
[00:38:55]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:38:56]  No, I mean, it's just weird that like no one else came and they were like, I would, if, I would think, and I'm, this is from what I've seen on television.
[00:39:03]  And this and that, it's like, you know, a wife goes missing, uh, husband is probably a suspect a little bit.
[00:39:11]  So you're keeping an eye on them.
[00:39:12]  Yeah.
[00:39:12]  Which she kind of noticed.
[00:39:13]  And keeping them safe in case there is another situation.
[00:39:16]  And keeping them safe.
[00:39:18]  Um, I'm reading, if I'm reading that note and I'm the cop, I get, maybe I'm, maybe I'm being too, I'm empowering the kidnappers too much or I'm taking them too serious, but I'd be like, we gotta get these fucking cars out from here.
[00:39:31]  Like, we gotta fucking, they might be watching us.
[00:39:34]  Yeah.
[00:39:34]  But I mean, you have to cover that base, I think.
[00:39:36]  Yes.
[00:39:37]  Um, I wish.
[00:39:38]  That there was a way to kind of go back and really see what those parents were acting like.
[00:39:48]  I watched a video of a deposition.
[00:39:51]  Okay.
[00:39:51]  And from, I mean, I'm no fucking body language expert.
[00:39:55]  I'm nothing, I have no expertise in this.
[00:39:58]  But I will say that I don't think that they were acting that weird.
[00:40:01]  I think that their behavior matched fairly close to what I would expect.
[00:40:06]  Right.
[00:40:07]  And I mean, you know, we've talked about this with the crisis actor stuff.
[00:40:10]  Like, people talk about someone smiling before they give an interview or something like that being proof that they're.
[00:40:15]  It's all fine.
[00:40:16]  They don't know how to act.
[00:40:17]  Right.
[00:40:17]  Maybe you cry too much, then they go, boy, she was really crying a lot.
[00:40:19]  Yeah, really hamming it up.
[00:40:21]  Hamming it up.
[00:40:22]  They don't.
[00:40:22]  They're not, like, angry.
[00:40:24]  My only thing is, you're letting them search the house with them, too.
[00:40:27]  And I bet it was a big ass house.
[00:40:29]  It's a three story, 15 room house.

=== Creepy Toddler Tiaras Theory (10:26) ===

[00:40:32]  Okay.
[00:40:32]  So, I mean, it's massive.
[00:40:33]  So that's big.
[00:40:35]  They're super duper rich, which we'll get into in a little bit.
[00:40:38]  Even the idea of the dad.
[00:40:41]  Seeing his daughter, picking her up, bringing her upstairs.
[00:40:43]  I'm not ready to go.
[00:40:45]  That is not a red flag.
[00:40:47]  That's not a red flag.
[00:40:49]  I'm not throwing the red flag on that one.
[00:40:51]  It's against protocol, sure.
[00:40:53]  But it is very much what a grieving father might do if he freaked out.
[00:40:57]  Can you imagine how much your brain would flip if you're like, oh, there's my daughter dead?
[00:41:04]  Your brain would go crazy.
[00:41:06]  It's almost impossible to hold someone responsible for the immediate actions.
[00:41:11]  He could have killed Fleet White and I wouldn't have been surprised.
[00:41:13]  I would have picked Fleet up and brought him upstairs.
[00:41:15]  Fleet, no.
[00:41:16]  Fleetie!
[00:41:17]  Yeah, that, I'm not, I'm not blaming him.
[00:41:19]  I'm not calling him out on that one either.
[00:41:20]  Yeah.
[00:41:21]  So, they did look into the parents quite a bit.
[00:41:24]  And I believe that that's the mainstream, uh, consensus that most people have.
[00:41:30]  If you ask people, and I asked, I asked somebody last night who I was hanging out with.
[00:41:33]  I said, what do you think?
[00:41:34]  What do you know when we decided this is what we're gonna do?
[00:41:37]  And she said, didn't the mom do it?
[00:41:41]  Or, and she's actually ordering a book.
[00:41:43]  She just ordered a book on Amazon, which is crazy that I think she's doing it.
[00:41:47]  I know.
[00:41:48]  And she goes, didn't they say, or isn't the idea that either the mom did it because she peed the bed?
[00:41:57]  Yeah, that's an absurd theory that had been given.
[00:42:00]  That the mom freaked out because of a bedwetting.
[00:42:03]  The brother did it, and they were covering up for the brother.
[00:42:06]  That's the classic OJ's son situation.
[00:42:09]  Yeah.
[00:42:09]  Now, here's one of the reasons I don't believe the son theory, or the brother theory, as it were.
[00:42:15]  She was strangled with a garret.
[00:42:18]  That was made from cord and the broken handle of a paintbrush.
[00:42:22]  Do you know what a garret is?
[00:42:24]  No.
[00:42:24]  It's where you have like a piece of board or like a stick.
[00:42:28]  Usually not a stick.
[00:42:30]  It's sort of an improvised weapon that people would use to stealth kill people.
[00:42:35]  Okay.
[00:42:36]  Sounds like a prison fucking weapon.
[00:42:38]  Yeah, well, they would have it.
[00:42:40]  They would have it in prisons.
[00:42:41]  Like you'd be strapped to a chair and you'd be strangled on the chair.
[00:42:46]  Okay.
[00:42:46]  That's one of the forms of a garret.
[00:42:48]  But the thing is.
[00:42:49]  What it sets it apart from just like a rope strangulation is that there's that piece of, in this case, a broken handle of a paintbrush that gives crazy leverage to it.
[00:42:58]  Okay.
[00:42:59]  So one of the things is even if you are trying to fight out of it and pulling on the cord, you only make it tighter.
[00:43:05]  Oh.
[00:43:06]  So that's one of the things, it's a pretty, I mean, it's basic really, but it's fairly sophisticated as an idea.
[00:43:12]  So the idea that a nine year old would make one out of a cord and a broken paintbrush.
[00:43:18]  Was it there?
[00:43:18]  Was it the Garrett there?
[00:43:20]  Was it still around her neck?
[00:43:21]  I believe it was found.
[00:43:22]  Okay.
[00:43:24]  It requires knots.
[00:43:26]  That's kind of surprising.
[00:43:27]  Like a nine year old might not.
[00:43:29]  I don't know.
[00:43:30]  Maybe he learned those in scouts.
[00:43:32]  Who knows?
[00:43:32]  Yeah.
[00:43:33]  He doesn't have a motive, also.
[00:43:35]  There's no, like, there's no history of, like, violent behavior or outbursts.
[00:43:40]  When you say that sexual assault could not be.
[00:43:43]  It wasn't rape.
[00:43:44]  Right.
[00:43:45]  But they said, but you said sexual assault couldn't be ruled out.
[00:43:49]  Yeah.
[00:43:50]  How common is that?
[00:43:51]  Like, is that a thing?
[00:43:51]  I think that's pretty common.
[00:43:52]  Okay.
[00:43:52]  Okay.
[00:43:53]  That's not, like, the most, like, no, no, that's, like, never say that.
[00:43:56]  I don't think that you can prove that someone might have, like, licked a puss or something like that, which is horrible.
[00:44:03]  Horrible phrasing on my part.
[00:44:04]  Yeah, that's the worst.
[00:44:06]  I'm sorry.
[00:44:06]  But you know, like, that's sort of the problem.
[00:44:08]  Right.
[00:44:08]  That to me, that, I just want to make sure that's not one of those things of everybody going, well, they said right there.
[00:44:12]  Like, that's one of those things you hear on a, like, again, watching like a Dateline NBC or something.
[00:44:17]  And they say that, and they're like, so you're telling me you can't conclusively say this?
[00:44:21]  And they go, uh, the expert goes, yes.
[00:44:23]  Yeah.
[00:44:24]  Oh, I have no further questions.
[00:44:25]  And then the defense will come right up or the, or the prosecutor will come right up and go, Dan, let me ask you a question.
[00:44:29]  How common is that?
[00:44:30]  And they'll go, oh, it happens all the time.
[00:44:31]  Okay.
[00:44:31]  Yeah.
[00:44:31]  So there's no red flag or I shouldn't go crazy about that.
[00:44:35]  Tearing, which would be indicative of, of a rape, or, or, or penetration from large objects.
[00:44:41]  There wasn't, uh, semen found or anything like that.
[00:44:44]  So those.
[00:44:45]  I don't mean to call you out, Dan, but when Dan said large object, he pointed down at his, at his crotch.
[00:44:50]  Well, I mean, it's Pavlovian in response.
[00:44:53]  It's just learned behavior.
[00:44:55]  Whenever I talk about big things, I point at my dick.
[00:44:57]  I'm kidding.
[00:44:58]  To quote Manny Fresh, dick real big, house real big, car real big, everything real big.
[00:45:04]  That's right.
[00:45:05]  Studio apartment.
[00:45:06]  I don't have a car.
[00:45:07]  What does that tell you?
[00:45:08]  Yeah.
[00:45:09]  So, where was I?
[00:45:12]  Oh, yeah.
[00:45:12]  I don't think it's the brother, also, because, like, it's a pretty violent crime that you'd have to knock them unconscious, which would require a heavy blow that I'm not sure a nine year old is capable of delivering.
[00:45:24]  I don't know.
[00:45:24]  And then you would have to carry a six year old's body down to a basement, hide it.
[00:45:30]  There's a lot of aspects to it that really preclude me from thinking a nine year old could do it.
[00:45:35]  I don't know why I had heard also something like.
[00:45:39]  Some of the things I had heard was, yeah, the bedwetting thing.
[00:45:42]  That's dumb.
[00:45:43]  I would throw that out immediately.
[00:45:44]  I had heard a golf club to the head.
[00:45:48]  The brother hit her in the head with a golf club on accident.
[00:45:51]  That would give a little bit more radius, a little bit more of centrifugal force to it.
[00:45:56]  I'm listening.
[00:45:57]  I don't know.
[00:45:58]  I still don't.
[00:45:59]  I'm not.
[00:45:59]  I'm listening.
[00:46:00]  Those two theories don't tickle me too much.
[00:46:04]  Okay.
[00:46:04]  Moving on.
[00:46:06]  But the parents, everyone's tickled by that shit.
[00:46:11]  Not the most likable people either.
[00:46:13]  No.
[00:46:13]  Because they're rich.
[00:46:15]  They're a little cold.
[00:46:17]  They're very waspy.
[00:46:18]  They're very waspy.
[00:46:20]  They're also pageant parents, which no one likes.
[00:46:23]  No.
[00:46:24]  That's so suspicious from the jump.
[00:46:27]  She's a former beauty queen.
[00:46:28]  Yep.
[00:46:29]  She was Miss West Virginia or whatever.
[00:46:31]  Patricia?
[00:46:32]  Patricia.
[00:46:32]  Patsy Bennett?
[00:46:33]  Patsy.
[00:46:34]  That's it.
[00:46:36]  She was a former beauty queen.
[00:46:37]  She's raising her daughter to be one.
[00:46:40]  It's a classic thing that makes us feel like the parents are unbalanced.
[00:46:45]  There's force involved in the sense that, like, you're making your kid do this thing, trying to relive your glory years.
[00:46:51]  This was really the first taste I had of that pageant.
[00:46:57]  It was before Toddlers and Tiaras, for sure.
[00:46:59]  Way before.
[00:47:00]  Which is, I mean, it is creepy.
[00:47:01]  And people who, like, who are really on board with the parents killing John Bonet, they do make a lot of good points, maybe not about the actual case, but about how wrong it is to sexualize a child like that.
[00:47:15]  And it is absolutely the case.
[00:47:17]  If you look at some of the pictures of the pageants, And at things she was in, there's no reason for kids to be dressed up like that.
[00:47:26]  Yeah, I remember seeing that.
[00:47:26]  It's fucked up.
[00:47:27]  And being like, what the fuck is this?
[00:47:30]  And there was that idea too of, I mean, man, if there are people who are like in that world and then this happened, they were probably like, oh, god damn it.
[00:47:38]  They're going to think we're all weird.
[00:47:39]  Yeah.
[00:47:40]  Oh, I hope the investigation doesn't sprawl.
[00:47:42]  This was one of those where like, yeah, you'd have your like, you know, your like Phil Donahue's or your Monte Williams being like, what are we doing, America, with our children?
[00:47:50]  And you're like, Mr. Show sketch, that prenatal pretties sketch is so like right on in terms of what critiques I would make of this.
[00:47:59]  Oh, yeah.
[00:47:59]  It's like, at what point is this kid too young to be involved in something like this?
[00:48:03]  I would argue.
[00:48:05]  15, 16.
[00:48:06]  All that makeup, those pictures of her.
[00:48:09]  And even 15, 16 seems young to a certain extent, but, you know, people.
[00:48:14]  I think I could have made an informed decision at 15.
[00:48:16]  I think that.
[00:48:17]  Well, I remember at.
[00:48:19]  But that.
[00:48:20]  Six is fucking crazy.
[00:48:21]  Yeah, it's real crazy and real gross and real weird.
[00:48:23]  Yeah.
[00:48:24]  So the parents are guilty of at least that.
[00:48:27]  It's legal, but it's super fucked up.
[00:48:29]  And it makes people look at them in a different light.
[00:48:31]  Sure.
[00:48:32]  Which is understandable.
[00:48:33]  Sure.
[00:48:33]  If she was just.
[00:48:35]  Uh, uh, uh, into gymnastics.
[00:48:38]  Sure.
[00:48:38]  Or something that would be like, aww.
[00:48:40]  Even that is kind of like, uh, the parents are still exerting a lot of pressure, but it's so possible.
[00:48:45]  You know what?
[00:48:46]  I'm not even excluding a possibility that John Binet in her life had been like, I wanna be a beauty queen.
[00:48:53]  That's entirely possible.
[00:48:55]  But at that point, I don't, I don't know what the responsible thing to do as a parent is, but it's not what they did.
[00:49:00]  Yes.
[00:49:00]  It's not what all these parents do.
[00:49:02]  Yes.
[00:49:02]  Putting pancake makeup on a child's face, putting them in like short shorts and fucking bikini bottoms, And parading them in front of freaking creepy adults.
[00:49:12]  That is not okay.
[00:49:13]  I do little cowboy dances.
[00:49:14]  Yeah.
[00:49:15]  So weird.
[00:49:15]  Yeah.
[00:49:16]  And it's one of those, you know, as far as like that smell test or just that first little, at first glance, like your first thought's probably your best thought.
[00:49:28]  And I don't see anybody who sees that and they're just like, this seems fine to me.
[00:49:31]  Yeah, this checks out.
[00:49:32]  If you don't watch one second of those and go, ooh, this is weird.
[00:49:38]  I watched one episode of Toddlers and Tiaras.
[00:49:42]  And the overwhelming anxiety that I got from it.
[00:49:45]  And just like, there's a lot of shows that I like to watch.
[00:49:48]  And, you know, people are like this who watch it.
[00:49:50]  Isn't this fucked up?
[00:49:52]  Yeah.
[00:49:52]  I couldn't even enjoy it on that level.
[00:49:54]  I was just like, these people should be locked up.
[00:49:56]  There's a documentary, I think, about that that I saw before, even before.
[00:50:04]  While you're looking that up, the other thing that's super fucked up is you're getting your kid into something that they maybe can't succeed in after puberty Living Dials.
[00:50:12]  The making of a beauty queen.
[00:50:14]  Uh, this was in 2001.
[00:50:16]  And, and, I mean, this was fucking creepy.
[00:50:20]  And it made, and it showed that whole thing of like, moms being like, uh, yeah, before we do one of these, we, we put some, uh, they take a, uh, uh, um, what's the pixie stick?
[00:50:32]  This, which is sugar in a stick?
[00:50:33]  Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
[00:50:35]  Those, and they put it in a Red Bull, mixed it up and gave it to the kid.
[00:50:38]  Need that energy.
[00:50:38]  And then jack the kid up.
[00:50:40]  Yeah.
[00:50:40]  That's bad.
[00:50:41]  Vaseline your smile so it's all shiny.
[00:50:43]  It's, it's so fucked up.
[00:50:45]  All right.
[00:50:46]  I had one other thought and I lost it.
[00:50:48]  Basically, understandably, it made people and the public look at them like you fucking dicks.

=== Ryback Dating Panic Issues (17:34) ===

[00:50:58]  Also, not working in their story, the story doesn't add up.
[00:51:03]  If you assume that they're innocent and there was a kidnapper or something like that, the fact that she's found dead in the basement doesn't match up with the ransom note.
[00:51:13]  It just can't, it doesn't work out.
[00:51:15]  Beyond that, the ransom note asked for.
[00:51:18]  $118,000, which is a very bizarrely specific amount of money.
[00:51:22]  Let me ask you this question.
[00:51:23]  Uh huh.
[00:51:24]  If you were going to write a fake ransom letter, wouldn't you throw some weird shit in there?
[00:51:31]  Movie quotes?
[00:51:32]  No, not just movie quotes, but I would do this weird, like, instead of just I want a million dollars, I'd be like, I want $1.24 million.
[00:51:42]  You're like, what's that all about?
[00:51:43]  I think if you're writing a fake ransom note, I think this is a perfect ransom note.
[00:51:50]  Here's a couple of reasons.
[00:51:51]  I'm sorry, go ahead.
[00:51:52]  No, I'm just saying, my.
[00:51:54]  If I'm starting to look at this with a little, what's going on here?
[00:51:58]  I think this is a perfect ransom note.
[00:52:00]  If the parents were sitting down writing it, there'd be enough info about me to be like, don't try anything else, Mr. Podcast.
[00:52:09]  Or I'd be like, how do you know that I did that?
[00:52:11]  You know what I mean?
[00:52:11]  Things like that.
[00:52:12]  Uh huh.
[00:52:13]  And he who you, uh, you fuck with us will take down your review on the AV club.
[00:52:17]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:52:17]  And things like that or whatever.
[00:52:19]  And it's just like, to me, it's like, there's a lot of things where I'm just like, that's a perfect fucking ransom note.
[00:52:24]  Well, here's one reason why if they wrote it, it wasn't.
[00:52:27]  All that perfect because $118,000 is almost exactly what John Ramsey got the year, that year as a bonus at his work.
[00:52:36]  Well, no, I think that's perfect.
[00:52:37]  But who would know that?
[00:52:39]  Somebody who works with him.
[00:52:40]  Okay.
[00:52:40]  That's, I think that was a thing where it's a disgruntled employee or something like that.
[00:52:44]  A foreign faction.
[00:52:45]  And a foreign faction.
[00:52:46]  Well, we'll get into his work here in a little bit because there's some creepy stuff involved with that.
[00:52:50]  But, uh, on.
[00:52:51]  Because I think, I'm sorry to cut you off again.
[00:52:53]  Oh, it's fine.
[00:52:53]  But I think a good bad, uh, uh, ransom note.
[00:52:59]  Mm hmm.
[00:53:00]  Puts the cops in a specific direction away from you.
[00:53:04]  Like, if I was just like, shit, I got to write a ransom note and I want to throw them off my trail.
[00:53:10]  And I would be like, you know, and don't think I didn't forget what you said about, or, and like, and don't forget, you know, about maybe something you said on a podcast episode.
[00:53:22]  So now they're like, maybe it's a listener of his podcast.
[00:53:25]  Essentially, what you're saying is if you wrote a ransom note, you'd write it in character.
[00:53:30]  I'd read it in character.
[00:53:31]  You'd pepper in specifics of somebody else.
[00:53:33]  Yep.
[00:53:34]  And be like, that's the last time you talk shit about me on Twitter or something.
[00:53:36]  I'd be like, Ryback.
[00:53:38]  It's Ryback.
[00:53:39]  It's Ryder Ray Dryback.
[00:53:40]  It's Ryback.
[00:53:42]  So on October, this is the last thing I really have is like something that indicates why the people would think it was the parents.
[00:53:51]  On October 25th, 2013, sealed court documents were unsealed that showed that a Colorado grand jury voted in 1999 to indict John and Patricia for the murder.
[00:54:03]  But the DA, Alex Hunter, refused to sign it due to inconclusive evidence.
[00:54:08]  Now, if you look a little bit more into this, that's kind of misleading.
[00:54:12]  They weren't going to be indicted for the murder.
[00:54:14]  They're going to be indicted for putting a child in a harmful situation or helping commit the murder.
[00:54:22]  And that, to me, seems like they were being indicted for moving the body.
[00:54:29]  Oh.
[00:54:30]  Because that really screwed with the investigation.
[00:54:32]  So I think that it's possible that the reason that The DA wouldn't sign it.
[00:54:38]  Is that like you're this isn't a criminal offense, this is understandably a fucked up thing that happened.
[00:54:44]  He wasn't trying, and you're punishing parents.
[00:54:46]  Yeah.
[00:54:47]  And what year did Patty get sick?
[00:54:49]  She ended up dying in 2006.
[00:54:51]  I'm not sure when she actually started to get sick, but she died of ovarian cancer in 2006.
[00:54:57]  Okay, so those are some of the reasons why people point a finger at them.
[00:55:03]  And if you have a kid who dies in your house, rightfully, you need to be thoroughly investigated.
[00:55:09]  Did they sell their house?
[00:55:10]  I don't know.
[00:55:11]  Okay.
[00:55:12]  I'm not sure about that.
[00:55:13]  All right.
[00:55:14]  That was not a compelling piece of my research.
[00:55:17]  Okay.
[00:55:17]  That's okay.
[00:55:18]  Found a number of things that point away from them, though.
[00:55:21]  Let me hear this.
[00:55:22]  In 2008, the DNA evidence was able to be run because in 1999 there was not really a sophisticated DNA analysis going on in law enforcement.
[00:55:33]  In 2008, the evidence was run from her underwear that did not match anyone related to her.
[00:55:39]  So there was.
[00:55:39]  Fleet.
[00:55:41]  Fleet.
[00:55:41]  What are you doing, Fleet?
[00:55:43]  There was evidence in the underwear, theoretically, a pube or saliva.
[00:55:49]  You just cringed.
[00:55:51]  Yeah.
[00:55:51]  Yeah.
[00:55:52]  Understandably.
[00:55:53]  But it makes it so Burke.
[00:55:55]  No, I just hate pubic hair.
[00:55:57]  I know you wax.
[00:55:57]  That's terrible.
[00:55:58]  So Burke and the parents would conceivably be off the hook at that point.
[00:56:02]  Okay.
[00:56:02]  But it's not, you know, just because, like, an absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
[00:56:08]  Right.
[00:56:08]  So the fact that there wasn't DNA evidence doesn't mean it wasn't them.
[00:56:11]  Right.
[00:56:11]  It just means that there was also someone else.
[00:56:14]  Also, if I was going to frame a murder on somebody, plant some evidence.
[00:56:17]  I'd get a pubic hair out of the.
[00:56:18]  There's so many places you could find a pub.
[00:56:20]  Local urinal.
[00:56:20]  There's so many pubes everywhere.
[00:56:23]  I know.
[00:56:23]  It's insane.
[00:56:25]  Um, also, their story has not been really changed throughout 20 years.
[00:56:31]  So, you know, like how OJ flipped and did a if I did it book.
[00:56:36]  Yes.
[00:56:36]  And stuff like that.
[00:56:37]  They haven't really tried to profit off this and have not really, outside of a few strange things, like we talked before we started recording about how John Bennett, uh, Ramsey, uh, in 2007, after his wife died, ended up dating Natalie Holloway's mom.
[00:56:57]  Yeah.
[00:56:57]  The girl who went missing in Aruba and was murdered by Joran Vandersloot.
[00:57:02]  I love that name, but I hate the man.
[00:57:03]  Man, don't hate the name, hate the game.
[00:57:05]  Joran Vandersloot.
[00:57:08]  So good.
[00:57:09]  So he ended up dating that girl who was murdered's mom.
[00:57:13]  Natalie's mom.
[00:57:13]  Which is very kind of strange, but it's not like.
[00:57:16]  They met kind of being outspoken about child death or what?
[00:57:21]  Sure.
[00:57:21]  And that's what they.
[00:57:22]  They were kind of doing the Nancy Grace tour of stuff like that.
[00:57:25]  Mm hmm.
[00:57:26]  Hanging out with Ron Goldman.
[00:57:27]  Yeah, Mr. Goldman's dad.
[00:57:29]  Yeah, his name's not Ron, too, is it?
[00:57:31]  I can't remember.
[00:57:32]  Who cares?
[00:57:32]  Anyway, uh.
[00:57:33]  Barry, Barry Goldman?
[00:57:34]  That's Goldwater you're thinking of.
[00:57:36]  Uh, it doesn't seem that strange that they might bond over having lost a child.
[00:57:41]  So if you believe that they're innocent, it makes total sense.
[00:57:43]  If you believe they're guilty, it also, like, what's, this is strange.
[00:57:46]  What if, what if, like, he started dating her and he's like, they're just like having a little wine one night and he's like, hey, can you tell me the truth?
[00:57:52]  Did you kill your, did you kill your daughter too?
[00:57:54]  He's like, what?
[00:57:54]  He's like, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing.
[00:57:57]  This didn't happen.
[00:57:59]  So, also, I mean, just the DNA evidence showing the presence of an unknown, unrelated male indicates to me the break in theory could be true, or what gets scarier is the possibility that they were in cahoots with someone else.
[00:58:14]  That they were involved, but there was somebody else.
[00:58:18]  So, the parents, you know, it's all up in the air a little bit, you know?
[00:58:23]  I don't know.
[00:58:26]  It's really hard to get a handle on what's going on here.
[00:58:28]  All right, so this happens.
[00:58:32]  Are there any.
[00:58:38]  I'm not sure if there's local weirdos, but there were, I think, 38 registered pedophiles or sex offenders living within like a mile and a half of them.
[00:58:48]  Yikes.
[00:58:48]  Or maybe it was two miles or something.
[00:58:50]  There were a lot of pedophiles around.
[00:58:52]  A lot of people got checked out and cleared.
[00:58:53]  That just shows.
[00:58:55]  Even if you have all that money, you're still miles, only a couple miles away from a pedophile.
[00:59:01]  But I bet it's actually more likely that you're living near a pedophile if you're really rich.
[00:59:05]  Maybe.
[00:59:05]  I mean, if the stuff that we keep.
[00:59:06]  That's my son, the registered sex offender.
[00:59:09]  Well, there's so much stuff that we keep running into about how the elites love, uh, let's say illegal sex.
[00:59:15]  Look.
[00:59:16]  We've all seen Eyes Wide Shut.
[00:59:17]  We know what happens at the end there.
[00:59:18]  Sure.
[00:59:19]  that, that will come back up later in our investigation.
[00:59:22]  So, one of the things that I think is really tough to get around is something I found in an article from the News Herald from September 4th, 1997.
[00:59:30]  Uh, there was a story in the paper about handwriting analysis that was done, uh, on the ransom note.
[00:59:38]  Yes, yes, yes, yes.
[00:59:39]  74 people were submitted to handwriting analysis and double blindly, so the people who were analyzing it don't know who wrote the stuff.
[00:59:47]  Good.
[00:59:47]  Uh, the only person who set off alarm bells at all was Patricia.
[00:59:52]  Her handwriting was not conclusively the same, but it was similar enough that the people doing the analysis were like, ooh, we gotta give this another look.
[01:00:01]  Which doesn't prove anything, but it is a little weird.
[01:00:05]  I consider that to be strange.
[01:00:08]  The use of a garret also is strange.
[01:00:10]  It's not a super common murder weapon, unless you're in war, kind of improvised war weapon.
[01:00:17]  It seems intentional.
[01:00:22]  I don't have a conclusion to make on it, but it's weird.
[01:00:24]  Also, the part of the broken paintbrush that was used in the garret was one of Patricia's paintbrushes.
[01:00:31]  They found a broken paintbrush in her supplies.
[01:00:35]  Okay.
[01:00:35]  Which just could prove that someone sold it.
[01:00:37]  They were down there in the basement looking for some way to make a garret.
[01:00:40]  Mm hmm.
[01:00:41]  Okay.
[01:00:41]  I'm not entirely sure the paintbrushes were in the basement.
[01:00:43]  That I'm not entirely sure about.
[01:00:44]  Oh, okay.
[01:00:45]  I don't know.
[01:00:46]  That part.
[01:00:46]  Okay.
[01:00:47]  I gotta go with God and say I have no idea where they were.
[01:00:51]  Okay.
[01:00:52]  Uh, further.
[01:00:53]  The note apparently, this I couldn't find conclusive evidence on either, but it seemed to be pretty consistent.
[01:01:00]  Uh, the note was written on a piece of paper that was taken from, uh, Patricia's notepad.
[01:01:06]  Okay.
[01:01:07]  So, or, I'm sorry, two and a half pieces of paper that were taken from her notepad.
[01:01:11]  Which, I can also say, like, okay, yeah, they, they, I mean, you know, they, they just did it there on the spot.
[01:01:19]  That seems a little weird too, though.
[01:01:20]  It's like, I'm gonna keep it.
[01:01:21]  But it had to have been when she, like, They were in the house.
[01:01:24]  Yeah, that's what it's saying.
[01:01:25]  The murder would have had to happen while they were home.
[01:01:28]  They were there overnight.
[01:01:30]  Here's the deal possible ideas.
[01:01:33]  If you're trying to.
[01:01:36]  I guess I'm kind of.
[01:01:37]  I mean, I don't want.
[01:01:39]  Are we not saying yet what we think happened or what?
[01:01:41]  No, no, we're playing.
[01:01:43]  We're fast and loose here.
[01:01:44]  Just whatever.
[01:01:44]  Wherever you want to take this, you take it.
[01:01:46]  All right.
[01:01:46]  So a group, a couple people, they're in the house.
[01:01:51]  Fleet.
[01:01:52]  Fleet and his crew.
[01:01:53]  Allegedly.
[01:01:53]  No, but there's people who are like, you guys keep her.
[01:01:56]  You guys, so they had to, here's what had to happen.
[01:01:58]  Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[01:01:59]  When you say a group, do you mean a group including the parents or just a group?
[01:02:02]  No, no, a group.
[01:02:03]  Okay.
[01:02:03]  Let's say the parents are innocent.
[01:02:05]  They're asleep upstairs.
[01:02:06]  They're asleep upstairs.
[01:02:07]  John Binet is asleep in her room, which was also upstairs?
[01:02:10]  Yeah.
[01:02:10]  Okay.
[01:02:11]  But the hallways had a thick carpet.
[01:02:14]  Okay.
[01:02:15]  Like traveling through the hallways would not necessarily.
[01:02:17]  Right.
[01:02:18]  You know, people might not hear you.
[01:02:19]  I bet that carpet feels so good.
[01:02:21]  Oh, damn, I bet it does.
[01:02:22]  I bet it's delicious.
[01:02:23]  I bet they still wear slippers around those high end assholes.
[01:02:26]  Yeah.
[01:02:26]  Maybe a runner.
[01:02:27]  Yeah.
[01:02:28]  Like a plastic runner down the hallway.
[01:02:30]  So they.
[01:02:31]  Grab her, and bring her downstairs.
[01:02:35]  But I don't know why you'd bring her downstairs.
[01:02:36]  I don't like you getting really quiet in your speech.
[01:02:39]  I'm sorry.
[01:02:40]  And then it's like, I'm going to find a notebook and pad and paper.
[01:02:46]  I'm going to bang out a ransom note here.
[01:02:49]  But then that's like, well, then what are you going to turn a light on down there?
[01:02:51]  To write?
[01:02:52]  Yeah.
[01:02:53]  Sure, why not?
[01:02:54]  Lights don't make noise.
[01:02:55]  If you're in the basement, you're far enough away from.
[01:02:58]  Yeah, but just that to me.
[01:03:00]  The basement makes total sense.
[01:03:02]  You're asking why.
[01:03:03]  But also, that's the wrong question.
[01:03:05]  The way that suicide, God damn it, I'm sorry, the way that ransom note came off, it seemed kind of like these guys knew what they were doing.
[01:03:10]  Sure.
[01:03:12]  But they never called.
[01:03:13]  But they never called.
[01:03:14]  But maybe they never called because the police were there.
[01:03:17]  Well, or they never had any intention, or they had to cut and run because they knew we already killed this girl and you're gonna find her eventually.
[01:03:21]  So it could have been a kidnapping that went wrong, right?
[01:03:23]  What are you gonna do?
[01:03:24]  Hope you don't find the dead body and just go on that whim that you didn't find the dead body and let's do the drop?
[01:03:30]  All right, so here's a theory that we can go with based on that line of reasoning.
[01:03:34]  Okay, there's we can allow for a possibility of these kidnappers giving her the old El Kabang over the head, yeah, and then it knocks her out and they realize, fuck, we hit her too hard.
[01:03:46]  Yeah, they have this ransom note, they leave it anyway.
[01:03:51]  And they're like, fuck, she's knocked out.
[01:03:54]  We might have killed her with that head blow.
[01:03:57]  Let's just choke her, leave her in the basement, and hope things play out.
[01:04:01]  Or, I mean, that's possible.
[01:04:04]  Or, let's, oh shit, do we bring her with us?
[01:04:10]  Now we got a body with us.
[01:04:11]  Now we got a body with us.
[01:04:13]  What if there's a spitballing and a guy goes, hey, we leave her here?
[01:04:17]  They're going to think they did it.
[01:04:19]  Right.
[01:04:20]  Let's get the fuck out of here.
[01:04:21]  But then why do you leave the note?
[01:04:24]  Ah, shit.
[01:04:25]  If you leave the note, then you're just adding a ton of confusion into it and giving exculpatory evidence to the parents.
[01:04:31]  And if you want to make it look like the parents did it, you don't leave that note.
[01:04:34]  Yeah.
[01:04:35]  Or maybe you do.
[01:04:36]  I don't know.
[01:04:37]  See, that's the thing.
[01:04:37]  Almost every piece of evidence can go both ways.
[01:04:40]  There's a, there's like, this looks like them.
[01:04:43]  Eh, I don't know.
[01:04:43]  Kind of gets them off the hook.
[01:04:45]  Yeah.
[01:04:45]  It's very weird.
[01:04:46]  I mean, if you're there and you're planning on kidnapping somebody for ransom and you accidentally kill them.
[01:04:55]  Mm hmm.
[01:04:56]  There might be some panic involved.
[01:04:57]  Yes.
[01:04:58]  Which is another thing that people bring up is that the note is really long and it's not written in a frantic hand or anything like that.
[01:05:08]  Yeah.
[01:05:09]  And it seems like that would be very, very difficult to write after committing a murder.
[01:05:16]  So people sort of believe that it was written pre murder.
[01:05:21]  Really?
[01:05:21]  Yeah.
[01:05:22]  Oh.
[01:05:23]  Well, I mean, the idea that the mom.
[01:05:25]  See, I would have thought if the mom and if someone in that family did it, mom or dad or brother.
[01:05:29]  Mm hmm.
[01:05:30]  that then they would sit down and write it.
[01:05:32]  Yeah, but I'm, if you're not a murderer, it's, I imagine the moments after committing murder are crazy.
[01:05:38]  So when would they, so you, you think hypothetically it was premeditated and they knew they were going to kill this girl?
[01:05:43]  Hypothetically, it could have been that, if you allow for the kidnappers theory, they could have tied her up and then written the note and then.
[01:05:55]  Oh, pre-death.
[01:05:56]  Okay.
[01:05:56]  And the guy goes, all right, I wrote the note.
[01:05:58]  It's on the counter.
[01:05:59]  Oh shit, she's dead.
[01:06:00]  What, what did you do?
[01:06:01]  I accidentally knocked her out.
[01:06:02]  Dan.
[01:06:03]  I know, I'm sorry.
[01:06:04]  She's dead.
[01:06:04]  Yep.
[01:06:05]  Let's just get out of here.
[01:06:05]  Let's go.
[01:06:06]  What about the note?
[01:06:07]  Nah, don't worry about it.
[01:06:07]  Let's go.
[01:06:07]  Fuck it, let's leave it.
[01:06:08]  Fuck it, let's go.
[01:06:09]  Uh, yeah, I, I don't, I, I, it's all super crazy, but if you did commit a murder, it would be hard to write two and a half pages immediately after.
[01:06:17]  Yeah.
[01:06:17]  So, I don't know.
[01:06:19]  I don't know.
[01:06:20]  Now, let me ask you this.
[01:06:22]  Yes.
[01:06:23]  What kind of business was this guy in?
[01:06:25]  Funny you should ask.
[01:06:26]  John Bennett.
[01:06:28]  Is it funny or am I a fucking expert?
[01:06:30]  You're an expert.
[01:06:31]  Uh, John Bennett Ramsey owned and started a company called Access Graphics, which Uh, grossed $1 billion in 1996, the year of the murder.
[01:06:42]  Whoa.
[01:06:43]  It was a billion dollar company.
[01:06:44]  Whoa.
[01:06:45]  And it had been absorbed into a merger into a company that became a subsidiary of Lockheed Martin.
[01:06:52]  Okay, now we're getting somewhere.
[01:06:53]  It's a computer service company that was a subsidiary of Lockheed.
[01:06:57]  Now we're getting somewhere.
[01:06:58]  And those folks out there who are listening have probably heard of Lockheed Martin before.
[01:07:03]  They're a weapons manufacturer.
[01:07:05]  They've made stealth planes in the past pretty frequently, involved in drone shit.
[01:07:10]  They have deep government ties as a contractor.
[01:07:13]  They have a skunk works division that is notorious in conspiracy circles.
[01:07:18]  Now we're getting into it.
[01:07:19]  Recently, they have claimed that they will unveil fusion technology for energy, clean energy, by 2017.
[01:07:26]  So that's the sort of company we're talking about.
[01:07:28]  This is the kind of business he was in.
[01:07:29]  He was in their computer services wing.
[01:07:33]  Yes.
[01:07:34]  Which is super weird.
[01:07:35]  Yes.
[01:07:36]  But I don't know how that involves murdering a daughter.
[01:07:38]  Well, here's the thing now you're part of two different communities that.
[01:07:44]  If you want to get sexy with the theories, dark ops.
[01:07:47]  You've got this dark ops, this world military government shrouded in secrecy world.
[01:07:56]  He was obviously involved in some stuff that he can't talk about.
[01:08:00]  No one can talk about.
[01:08:01]  And then, I mean, they're by that fucking Denver airport.
[01:08:05]  True.
[01:08:05]  They're not that far away from that Denver airport.
[01:08:07]  Boulder and Denver are reasonably close.
[01:08:09]  Also, then you've got the world of the child beauty pageants, and there could be some creeps there.
[01:08:18]  You know what?
[01:08:20]  I'm sure that world is mostly creeps.
[01:08:23]  Yeah.
[01:08:24]  That has got to be a world that, like, if anybody did a little digging, you'd have to be able to find, like, tons of people who have long ass rap sheets.

=== Powerful Pedophiles in Thailand (16:51) ===

[01:08:33]  Sure.
[01:08:34]  Of, like, if you had any idea, the man who was DJing those, holy shit, he is bad.
[01:08:40]  Yeah.
[01:08:40]  So you've got an alias, for sure.
[01:08:42]  So you've got that world.
[01:08:44]  You've got these people in two very different but dark worlds.
[01:08:48]  You've got Skunk Works and Kid Twerks.
[01:08:51]  There you go.
[01:08:52]  There you go.
[01:08:52]  Got both those worlds covered.
[01:08:54]  So that's a thing.
[01:08:55]  Sure.
[01:08:55]  The fact that I respect.
[01:08:59]  What did he say about the company, but not the country?
[01:09:01]  I respect your business, but not the country it's involved with.
[01:09:06]  Let me get the exact quote here.
[01:09:09]  We respect your business, but not the country that it serves.
[01:09:13]  Okay.
[01:09:13]  So now we're starting.
[01:09:14]  That phrasing is pretty pointed.
[01:09:17]  And it's sort of a.
[01:09:20]  I mean, what is that saying?
[01:09:21]  We're not from the United States?
[01:09:24]  Uh, well, I mean, they say they're a foreign faction.
[01:09:26]  They're a foreign faction.
[01:09:27]  If you, if you think about the sort of shit that was probably, uh, under work, or underway with Lockheed Martin, I would assume that, uh, some sort of intelligence operations in foreign countries would be very interested in that.
[01:09:39]  So it's possible that it was a kidnapping by, by foreign people who went awry.
[01:09:45]  Or.
[01:09:45]  Now, hold on.
[01:09:46]  Okay.
[01:09:47]  If we allow that, if we think along that line, what the fuck do they want with $118,000?
[01:09:53]  Right.
[01:09:54]  If they're involved with foreign espionage, they don't need money.
[01:09:57]  And if this company took in a billion, why don't you give me a million dollars?
[01:10:01]  Yeah.
[01:10:01]  Well, his personal wealth, I believe, was like $4.6 million.
[01:10:05]  And then there's this idea of can you just go to a bank and get that kind of money?
[01:10:09]  No.
[01:10:11]  And I don't think so.
[01:10:11]  And a bank be like, okay, Dan, you sure?
[01:10:15]  I know that really rich people don't have to go through the same things we do, but we all have withdrawal limits.
[01:10:20]  Yeah.
[01:10:20]  We all have.
[01:10:22]  Well, you're not going to go to an ATM and get this.
[01:10:23]  No, but even if you go inside, there's limits what you can take out.
[01:10:26]  Yeah.
[01:10:26]  And if you're like, Look, I need these to be unmarked bills.
[01:10:29]  Yeah.
[01:10:30]  Unsequential bills, that sets off so many red flags.
[01:10:32]  Right.
[01:10:33]  You'd have to do it over the course of a couple days or something like that.
[01:10:36]  Yeah.
[01:10:37]  Also, I don't even know how you'd get untransferable.
[01:10:40]  You would think somebody like this would be like, give us your bank account number, we'll take it out.
[01:10:47]  We know how to do this.
[01:10:48]  Yeah.
[01:10:48]  We'll do an EFT transfer.
[01:10:50]  Yeah, or set up a foreign account or offshore.
[01:10:53]  Yeah, we'll let her go once we have a confirmation that you've inserted this money into an account.
[01:10:58]  Are you starting to think as far as this ransom note goes?
[01:11:01]  Is it legit?
[01:11:03]  Are they just trying to get people into all different directions?
[01:11:07]  There's a lot of problems with it.
[01:11:09]  If you think that the parents did it, there's a lot of problems.
[01:11:11]  If you think that someone else did it, there's still a lot of problems.
[01:11:13]  Yeah.
[01:11:14]  I don't think it's real.
[01:11:15]  Okay, okay.
[01:11:16]  That was my next question.
[01:11:17]  Do you think it's, do you think there's a possibility that's real?
[01:11:20]  That's a no.
[01:11:21]  I don't think so.
[01:11:22]  Because if you are kidnapping, the, the, the idea that it was at one point real and then the situation changed, that's possible.
[01:11:30]  Okay.
[01:11:30]  Like the kidnapping was not intended to be a murder.
[01:11:32]  Did they get no, no break in in the house?
[01:11:34]  Did they have a security system, an alarm or anything?
[01:11:36]  They would have to.
[01:11:36]  It's a million dollar home.
[01:11:37]  Did they have an ADT?
[01:11:38]  They would have to have had a security system.
[01:11:40]  Video cameras on site.
[01:11:41]  The theory that the dad has posed In interviews, is that someone broke in while they were out to dinner that night and then overnight waited down there, waited till they were asleep.
[01:11:51]  That frightens me.
[01:11:52]  That scares me.
[01:11:53]  That's why I always want to live in a studio apartment.
[01:11:55]  I was just going to say that makes me feel very safe and secure to live.
[01:12:00]  Danny Callis, one of our buddies, has a joke about living in a studio about being like, I know I'm safe because I just look at, okay, bathroom check, everything else check.
[01:12:07]  No one's in my apartment.
[01:12:08]  That idea of a three story house.
[01:12:11]  That's, I mean, I don't come from riches.
[01:12:14]  Even when I was growing up, I was a little afraid of the idea of the basement.
[01:12:18]  Uh huh.
[01:12:18]  You know, we have an unfinished basement down there.
[01:12:20]  Anyone could hide in a number of places down there.
[01:12:22]  Yeah.
[01:12:23]  So it always kind of, yeah, it's scary.
[01:12:25]  Houses are fucking scary as shit.
[01:12:27]  Leave alone the idea that you have to make payments on it.
[01:12:29]  I mean, things break and it's your responsibility.
[01:12:32]  I'm thinking about this idea of people in this big house being like, all right, here's the car.
[01:12:41]  Let's go back downstairs or something.
[01:12:43]  Or you got someone outside in a van across the street or something like that.
[01:12:47]  Yeah.
[01:12:48]  Uh, whatever.
[01:12:49]  It's like, alright, they're coming home.
[01:12:51]  It's like, alright, we're gonna hide down in the basement.
[01:12:53]  And then it's alright, now it's four in the morning, let's get to work.
[01:12:56]  That's fucking crazy.
[01:12:57]  That's crazy, but one of the other things, it's like, about that kind of plan that's really fucked up is you can't plan for like someone possibly having insomnia or something like that.
[01:13:04]  No, no, no.
[01:13:05]  So like, what happens if your whole plan gets screwed by the dad not being able to fall asleep that night?
[01:13:09]  Right.
[01:13:10]  Or, uh, any, any thoughts on why the daughter, not the son, or why not both of them?
[01:13:17]  Hmm.
[01:13:17]  I mean, I guess there's no need to take both of them.
[01:13:19]  No.
[01:13:20]  I don't know.
[01:13:21]  I feel like, uh, the son, I don't really know anything about him.
[01:13:24]  I don't know what he was into.
[01:13:25]  He's a little older, too.
[01:13:26]  He's nine, but, like, I don't know what he was into, whereas John Bonet was a beauty queen pageant gal.
[01:13:31]  So, like, I feel like there might.
[01:13:33]  Do they mention much about her in the suicide note again?
[01:13:35]  Like, hate for a beauty like this to go.
[01:13:37]  You know what I mean?
[01:13:38]  Like, any idea of kind of who she was or what she was?
[01:13:40]  No, there's just, like, the if you want her to see 1997 kind of thing, which is a strange phrasing of if you want her to live.
[01:13:47]  Yeah.
[01:13:47]  But, um, well, I mean, I guess it's not that strange because it's December 26th, so it's, like, it's real close to New Year's.
[01:13:53]  Yeah.
[01:13:54]  And maybe there's that idea of let's get this done in a couple days before New Year's Eve.
[01:14:00]  I think that there's a value to her that's perceived that the brother didn't have.
[01:14:05]  Like in the fact that, you know, clearly they're putting a lot of money into her as a beauty queen.
[01:14:09]  Okay, she's an investment besides being a daughter.
[01:14:12]  Yeah, maybe.
[01:14:13]  I think that that's possible.
[01:14:14]  That sounds a little cold.
[01:14:15]  Well, I mean, it's a cold world out there, especially when you're talking about kidnappers.
[01:14:18]  I know.
[01:14:20]  So, I don't know, man.
[01:14:22]  I don't know.
[01:14:23]  No idea of how they could have gotten in the house, though.
[01:14:25]  No, there is a pretty good idea.
[01:14:27]  There's a window in the basement that they could have got in and through.
[01:14:30]  But there was no sign of forced entry or anything like that, which leaves open the possibility that they just fucked up and left a window unlocked.
[01:14:36]  Who?
[01:14:37]  An investigator showed that an adult male could crawl through the window that people speculate someone came in through.
[01:14:44]  Okay.
[01:14:45]  And he also showed that at the time of the murder, there was a suitcase near the window which could have been used as a stepping stool to get out of.
[01:14:57]  Okay.
[01:14:57]  Okay.
[01:14:58]  It's inconclusive, and there's no reason to think that the scene wasn't doctored slightly, but it would show that someone could have easily gotten in and out that window.
[01:15:06]  Any suspects?
[01:15:08]  Not really.
[01:15:09]  Besides the parents?
[01:15:09]  Wasn't there an older guy, like an old bearded man or something?
[01:15:13]  Are there some theories about.
[01:15:14]  There's suspects, but they all.
[01:15:16]  Maybe it was like a Mall Santa or something.
[01:15:17]  There's suspects, but all of them got cleared pretty quickly.
[01:15:21]  There's nothing that's too compelling, which is another super weird thing about this.
[01:15:26]  If you dig into it, there's no suspects that look good.
[01:15:29]  Now, we get somebody who claims to do it.
[01:15:35]  Yeah.
[01:15:36]  Now, we'll get to him in a second, but.
[01:15:39]  All these years, no one in prison, no one's ever been like, hey, I know who did it.
[01:15:45]  Well, that leads us exactly to who you were alluding to, which is John Mark Carr, a gentleman who has taken responsibility for the murders in prison.
[01:15:57]  He's a real creep.
[01:15:58]  He's a real creep.
[01:15:59]  It was in 2006.
[01:16:02]  He was arrested for child pornography charges.
[01:16:06]  He got his bail reduced.
[01:16:07]  Well, where did he get arrested?
[01:16:09]  In Colorado.
[01:16:10]  Oh, okay.
[01:16:11]  Uh,.
[01:16:12]  That was where he was arrested for child pornography.
[01:16:14]  Okay.
[01:16:15]  And then he got his bail reduced and he fled to Thailand.
[01:16:18]  Okay.
[01:16:19]  And he was hiding out in Thailand and he started having sex tourism capital of the world.
[01:16:27]  So then he started corresponding with a Colorado University professor named Michael Tracy.
[01:16:31]  He started sending him a bunch of emails because apparently Tracy had done some TV show work about the case and had maybe written some stuff about it.
[01:16:39]  So he started contacting him and he started writing him these emails.
[01:16:43]  that were really bizarre about, uh, the killing.
[01:16:48]  And he started to, well, he started to sort of like speculate about what the killer was thinking.
[01:16:53]  Like, OJ, if I didn't do it, here's how I would have done it.
[01:16:55]  Kind of, yeah, but almost, but more fantasy-ish.
[01:16:58]  Ah, okay.
[01:16:58]  Like, uh, he ended up like writing some emails that involved like an almost narrative fantasies about what happened.
[01:17:07]  Uh, started to make calls to this Professor Tracy.
[01:17:11]  And, uh, it set off a real alarm for this guy.
[01:17:14]  So he alerted the authorities to, about him.
[01:17:17]  So, The authorities worked it out.
[01:17:20]  Oh, this is John Mark Carr.
[01:17:23]  We know who this guy is.
[01:17:24]  He's in Thailand.
[01:17:25]  So they set up with the Thai authorities and they brought him in and they arrested him.
[01:17:30]  Okay.
[01:17:31]  And he was going to be extradited and immediately confessed and was like, I did it.
[01:17:37]  I did it.
[01:17:37]  Absolutely, I did it.
[01:17:39]  But what he said was that it was a sex game that went wrong.
[01:17:43]  So he was in their Pervin and he accidentally killed her during the.
[01:17:48]  Thing.
[01:17:49]  The part about that, though, is that it's very, very fake.
[01:17:53]  His details don't line up with the truth.
[01:17:55]  Which is what we were talking about before we did this.
[01:17:57]  He never said that he hit her.
[01:17:59]  Yeah.
[01:17:59]  Like the head wound was unaccounted for.
[01:18:03]  He said he drugged her, which she wasn't drugged at all.
[01:18:05]  There was nothing except pineapple found in the system.
[01:18:08]  Yeah.
[01:18:08]  So it just couldn't be true.
[01:18:10]  There's no way for the government or police to actually place him in Boulder at the time, even.
[01:18:16]  So they can't even put him in the town, let alone the house.
[01:18:19]  And this isn't.
[01:18:20]  The DNA didn't match also, so everything was wrong with him.
[01:18:23]  It's not out of the ordinary for somebody who's suffering from mental illness to claim that they were responsible for a crime.
[01:18:33]  You could even have hallucinogenic fantasies that you did do it.
[01:18:36]  You might even have convinced yourself you did it.
[01:18:39]  He might.
[01:18:39]  And faced with the, this is what we keep talking about, is like faced with the prospect of a Taiwanese prison, not Taiwanese, Thailand prison, versus an American prison, take America every time.
[01:18:50]  And there might have been an issue.
[01:18:51]  I mean, like, look, people claim to have been the, the, Black Dahlia murderer.
[01:18:56]  People have claimed to be Jack the Ripper.
[01:18:57]  You know what I mean?
[01:18:58]  Lindbergh, baby.
[01:18:59]  Everything, every big one, there have been people who have claimed to have done it for some reason.
[01:19:02]  Why?
[01:19:02]  I don't know.
[01:19:03]  Maybe, I mean, for that minute, he was in news cameras in his face, and he was probably might have been like, fuck yeah, this is what it's all about.
[01:19:11]  That really tests the theory that no press is bad press.
[01:19:14]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:19:15]  It's like you want to be in the public eye so badly that you admit to killing a beloved child.
[01:19:19]  God, he fit the part, too.
[01:19:21]  Yep, he was this guy with like French Stewart playing a sex pervert on Saturday Night Live.
[01:19:28]  That's perfect.
[01:19:29]  It could not have been, and I think he might have played him on Saturday Night Live in a sketch.
[01:19:32]  I would have.
[01:19:33]  But like, there, I mean, There's nothing about this guy that you're just like, this guy, this guy doesn't seem like a fucking sex rapist, child rapist.
[01:19:40]  No, he, he is.
[01:19:41]  He looked apart.
[01:19:42]  He's good for it.
[01:19:43]  So, as the cops would say.
[01:19:44]  He looked apart.
[01:19:45]  He has a history that supports all that.
[01:19:47]  So, yeah, he, he would have been great if the facts didn't come out.
[01:19:50]  Could you imagine, could you imagine though?
[01:19:52]  If you're the parents, let's say you did it.
[01:19:54]  Yeah.
[01:19:55]  And let's say this guy comes forward.
[01:19:57]  Mm hmm.
[01:19:58]  And they're just like, sure, you did it.
[01:19:59]  Just like, absolutely.
[01:20:00]  And they're like, oh my god.
[01:20:02]  We locked out of this.
[01:20:03]  This is crazy.
[01:20:04]  This is manna from heaven.
[01:20:06]  And I mean, it has, I mean, people have, have innocently been Charged with crimes.
[01:20:10]  We just got the guy from making a murder getting out.
[01:20:12]  Someone did that crime.
[01:20:13]  Yep.
[01:20:14]  So somebody was like, well, fuck.
[01:20:16]  Avery still could have done it, just not the nephew or whatever.
[01:20:20]  Brendan Dassey.
[01:20:21]  Right.
[01:20:22]  So, I mean, there's that thing of somebody is in prison right now for somebody else's crimes.
[01:20:27]  Oh, there's thousands of people who are wrongly in prison.
[01:20:30]  So, you know, with this John Binet thing, that very well could have been the case.
[01:20:34]  But it was discredited hard.
[01:20:38]  Hard.
[01:20:39]  Another theory that people have that really doesn't have a lot of evidence, but somehow has a foothold in people's consciousness.
[01:20:45]  Probably just because it's kind of like, the way you put it is sexy, but I hate using that term in this context.
[01:20:50]  I know.
[01:20:51]  It's titillating and like sort of, if it bleeds, it leaves.
[01:20:55]  It's Hollywood.
[01:20:56]  Yeah.
[01:20:57]  Which is that the parents were involved in a satanic organization or an elite pedophile ring.
[01:21:03]  There's a lot of people who believe that the parents were pimping her out to creeps and very powerful pedophiles.
[01:21:12]  And that possibly the murder was filmed as a snuff film, or that it was a prostitution event gone wrong.
[01:21:21]  Now, the problems that we have with that are it's salacious beyond any reason.
[01:21:28]  There's no evidence that supports this.
[01:21:32]  Every single goddamn thing that says it's evidence of this is a wacky YouTube video with no sources.
[01:21:39]  Yeah.
[01:21:40]  So, if you're one of these people who really wants to get into.
[01:21:44]  I mean, I definitely believe that there are really powerful pedophiles out in the world.
[01:21:48]  Oh, sure.
[01:21:49]  I 100% believe that.
[01:21:51]  But there's no evidence here that this was involved with that.
[01:21:55]  How do you spell Lockheed like Lockheed Martin?
[01:21:57]  Exactly how you think L O C K H E E D. L O C K H E E D. H E E D.
[01:22:04]  That would be Lockhead, the way you were spelling it.
[01:22:06]  Lockheed.
[01:22:08]  So, yeah, that one's one that I feel does not.
[01:22:11]  I mean, look, it's something that you should question, maybe.
[01:22:15]  Yeah.
[01:22:16]  And if it's true.
[01:22:18]  I'm not going to be wildly shocked, but it requires evidence.
[01:22:24]  Yeah.
[01:22:24]  And that is just not there.
[01:22:26]  Another group has claimed that a Colorado preacher named Bob Enyart is responsible for it to the point.
[01:22:32]  Oh, he might be the guy I'm thinking about.
[01:22:34]  Okay.
[01:22:35]  A preacher.
[01:22:35]  Yeah, he's a preacher, and these independent investigators have pointed the finger at him pretty hard and claimed that he's responsible for the murder of hundreds of children.
[01:22:48]  But.
[01:22:49]  The evidence here also doesn't stand up to scrutiny, really.
[01:22:52]  And if you go to their website, I think it's like Bob Enhart, Enyart, murdered John Benet Ramsey.com.
[01:22:59]  Yeah.
[01:22:59]  It just looks like a crazy person's blog.
[01:23:02]  Okay.
[01:23:02]  It's very hard to, like, really.
[01:23:06]  Whenever you go to somebody's blog who's espousing conspiracy theories, and they're like, oh yeah, I've cracked this one, and you scroll down a little bit further, and it's like, oh yeah, you know what?
[01:23:18]  Everyone's a look alike.
[01:23:19]  Yeah.
[01:23:20]  Let me ask you this Has the brother said anything?
[01:23:23]  He's been very shrouded from media attention.
[01:23:26]  No Twitter handle.
[01:23:27]  No.
[01:23:27]  The parents have said that they don't want, they're not allowing him to be, like, public or be interviewed at all.
[01:23:34]  I guess he's an adult now and has chosen not to.
[01:23:36]  Sure.
[01:23:36]  But back then it was to protect him from the still on the loose killer.
[01:23:39]  Okay.
[01:23:40]  Which makes some sense.
[01:23:41]  I mean, if you're a concerned parent.
[01:23:42]  Yeah, so she's passed away.
[01:23:44]  Mm hmm.
[01:23:44]  He's still.
[01:23:46]  What's the dad's doing?
[01:23:47]  Is he just still doing Lockheed shit?
[01:23:49]  I don't know what he's done.
[01:23:50]  I think he actually stepped away from that company after the murder.
[01:23:53]  Yeah.
[01:23:53]  I think he.
[01:23:55]  From what I understand, he.
[01:23:56]  I mean, and then I saw recently on one of the news programs that they were thinking about reopening this case.
[01:24:03]  Ah, ah, hold on.
[01:24:04]  Sorry.
[01:24:05]  He was Templar.
[01:24:05]  Temporarily replaced in the aftermath of the murder, so the company didn't have to bother him about business matters as he grieved.
[01:24:12]  Ramsey soon left his job and moved his family to Michigan, where he joined another computer company, unnamed.
[01:24:18]  Access Graphics was later sold to General Electric.
[01:24:21]  Okay.
[01:24:21]  So, sorry, there.
[01:24:22]  Now, what was I asking?
[01:24:27]  Oh, yeah, I saw recently that there's a new DA or a new somebody, and they're thinking about opening up the case again.
[01:24:34]  It's possible.
[01:24:35]  And with.
[01:24:36]  Some certain advances in technology we can maybe.
[01:24:41]  Well, what's super crazy about it is the technology isn't, uh, like, like night and day advanced from 2008, whenever they started doing a lot of the analysis on the DNA.
[01:24:51]  And they ran it through the system of everybody that they had on file, and it didn't match anybody that they.
[01:24:57]  Okay.
[01:24:57]  So that's crazy.
[01:24:58]  It's someone who.
[01:24:59]  What are, I mean, have any, have any, a lot of times when there's cases like this.
[01:25:02]  The people, people who are trying to railroad, uh, I don't know if it's railroading, it might be guilty.
[01:25:06]  You have no fucking idea.
[01:25:07]  This Bob Enyard guy claimed that the pube, uh, matches him.
[01:25:10]  Okay.
[01:25:10]  But as much as I dug, I could not find any evidence of that.
[01:25:14]  Their evidence is that they've called into his radio show.
[01:25:17]  Yeah.
[01:25:17]  And told him that they know that and he's done nothing about it.
[01:25:21]  Oh.
[01:25:22]  That's not evidence.
[01:25:23]  That's not evidence.

=== Katy Perry Tape Evidence (15:38) ===

[01:25:25]  Um, has, what have, what have some of the kind of definitive books about this?
[01:25:30]  You know, usually law enforcement will write, you know, people write books.
[01:25:34]  DAs will write books or whatever about this case.
[01:25:36]  Lawyers will write books.
[01:25:38]  Are you trying to ask me to give some, uh, required reading?
[01:25:41]  No, no, no.
[01:25:41]  I'm, believe me, I'm not going to make anybody read.
[01:25:43]  But I do hate reading.
[01:25:45]  What I'm asking is, are there any sort of, I mean, I know some of the sexier theories.
[01:25:50]  Are there any just like, I don't know, credible people who have tackled the subject besides you and I?
[01:25:56]  Yeah.
[01:25:56]  FBI behavior and behavior and ethics.
[01:25:59]  That's what I'm asking.
[01:26:01]  Have any of my profilers written anything?
[01:26:04]  John E. Douglas.
[01:26:05]  Okay.
[01:26:05]  Wrote a book called The Cases That Haunt Us.
[01:26:09]  Okay.
[01:26:09]  It was a chapter in that book that came out in 2001.
[01:26:12]  He argues that the Ramses could not have been involved.
[01:26:16]  For four reasons.
[01:26:17]  One, there's no physical evidence linking them to the murder.
[01:26:20]  And physical evidence found near her body suggested the presence of someone else.
[01:26:24]  Two, there's no plausible motive for the Ramses to kill their daughter.
[01:26:28]  C, or three, there's no evidence of physical abuse, neglect, sexual molestation, or serious personality disorders in the Ramsey household prior to the murder.
[01:26:38]  Usually, any one of those is associated with children who are murdered by their parents.
[01:26:43]  And then D, the behavior of John and Patricia Ramsey after discovery of the crime is consistent with that of parents of other murdered children.
[01:26:50]  And it was inconsistent with that of parents who have been found to have killed their children.
[01:26:54]  Okay.
[01:26:55]  So, those four reasons are that's the case that this book makes.
[01:27:01]  There's a ton of goddamn books about that.
[01:27:03]  Yeah, I would assume so.
[01:27:04]  And it's hard for me to know which ones are credible and which ones are quackery.
[01:27:07]  Okay.
[01:27:08]  That one seems to be one that people bring up as, like, hey, it was an FBI guy.
[01:27:12]  He seems to have some cred.
[01:27:13]  Sure.
[01:27:14]  Here's something that doesn't have cred.
[01:27:16]  I love it.
[01:27:18]  A while back, there was a theory that started to gain traction, went viral on the internet, that John Bonet Ramsey didn't get murdered.
[01:27:24]  Oh.
[01:27:25]  She grew up to become Katy Perry.
[01:27:27]  Katy Perry, yeah.
[01:27:29]  What do you think about this?
[01:27:30]  Oh, I think this is terrible.
[01:27:32]  I mean, it's not terrible.
[01:27:33]  I think it's all.
[01:27:34]  I think it's the internet.
[01:27:37]  Getting someone saying something very silly or whatever.
[01:27:40]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:27:41]  Someone smoking a little too much weed and going, you know what?
[01:27:44]  Hey, dude.
[01:27:44]  This is up there.
[01:27:45]  They look alike, dude.
[01:27:46]  Did you see that picture of Katy Perry as a blonde?
[01:27:48]  This is up there with the Miley getting switched out with a porn star.
[01:27:53]  Well, they also, like, people previously had said that Lady Gaga grew up to be or was John Bonet.
[01:27:59]  Like, it just happens all the fucking time.
[01:28:01]  It's.
[01:28:01]  The problem is that Katy Perry's childhood is documented on video.
[01:28:06]  Yeah.
[01:28:06]  Her parents have tapes of her when she was a kid and.
[01:28:09]  She would have been 12 at that point, not 6.
[01:28:12]  I know.
[01:28:13]  She was born in 1984.
[01:28:14]  So, I mean, it's just, it's.
[01:28:16]  I know.
[01:28:17]  It's comical.
[01:28:18]  But.
[01:28:19]  But.
[01:28:20]  I think that it is possible that it's so absurd that it was intentionally planted.
[01:28:27]  So, anybody who looks into conspiracy theories about John Bede Ramsey finds this one automatically assumes that everything is stupid.
[01:28:34]  False flag.
[01:28:35]  Right.
[01:28:36]  I think it's possible that this theory is a diversionary measure in some ways.
[01:28:40]  Because if you search on the internet for Katy, uh, I'm sorry, uh, John Benet Ramsey conspiracy, the first six pages are all Katy Perry articles from shithouse blogs.
[01:28:50]  They're just making fun of the idea of conspiracies.
[01:28:53]  If you were someone who didn't want the mainstream public to find out some little bit of information, maybe about Lockheed Martin, you would probably want to plant this story that you know that every goddamn blog is going to run with.
[01:29:06]  Especially, some might say.
[01:29:08]  I just ran out of breath.
[01:29:09]  Some might say, because we're getting ready for that 20th anniversary.
[01:29:12]  It is coming up in December.
[01:29:13]  That is true.
[01:29:14]  Fresh eyes might want to say, hey, what's going on with this?
[01:29:16]  You ever wonder?
[01:29:17]  That does always happen whenever there's big anniversaries of things.
[01:29:19]  And maybe Trump would be the president to do this.
[01:29:22]  That is another thing that was on that lady, uh, that, uh, terrible blog about Bob Enyart was a story about, uh, Trump is going to reopen the investigation.
[01:29:30]  That's what I'm saying.
[01:29:31]  You get a guy like Trump and they're just like, what are you going to do in your, your first, you know, first day in office?
[01:29:35]  We're going to find out who killed that baby.
[01:29:37]  Uh, I want to know who killed John Benet.
[01:29:39]  I want to know, uh, what's going on.
[01:29:41]  Yeah.
[01:29:41]  Strange agenda for a president.
[01:29:43]  I want to, our new Secretary of State, Alex Jones.
[01:29:47]  We're going to open up all the cases.
[01:29:49]  I want to be in charge of FEMA.
[01:29:51]  I want to know what's going on with FEMA.
[01:29:52]  I want to know what's going on with their camps.
[01:29:54]  They open up.
[01:29:55]  It would be super weird if he wins and puts Alex Jones into the cabinet or something like that.
[01:30:00]  That would be bonkers.
[01:30:02]  Secretary of State, Alex Jones.
[01:30:03]  Secretary of the Interior.
[01:30:04]  Met with, yeah.
[01:30:05]  It's just like.
[01:30:08]  So if we had to, uh.
[01:30:11]  Oh, I have one more thing before you want to wrap it up.
[01:30:13]  Please, please, please, please.
[01:30:14]  Uh, some people have speculated, including, uh, notorious, uh, MKUltra, uh, uh, I forgot her last name, so I'll try to vamp, uh, survivor, Catherine, uh, yeah, whatever her fucking name is.
[01:30:27]  Bob Hope's girl.
[01:30:28]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:30:29]  She has claimed that, uh, one of the videotapes that was taken from the house, because, uh, just after the murder, a bunch of all sort of recording equipment, videotapes, everything was confiscated by the police, uh, which makes sense.
[01:30:41]  They want to clear up stuff.
[01:30:43]  They want to make sure that these Parents aren't creeps.
[01:30:46]  They claim that one of the tapes that was taken, or she claims that one of the tapes was a government guide on how to make a brainwashed slave using a stun gun.
[01:30:56]  Oh boy.
[01:30:57]  And she believes that the ceremony or what was going on that led to the murder was part of slave training that went wrong involving MKUltra.
[01:31:08]  Yeah.
[01:31:08]  So there's no evidence of that, but that's another one of these wackadoo theories.
[01:31:13]  I Googled Lockheed Martin, MKUltra, hoping to get more, but yeah.
[01:31:18]  Well, that's because Google has been compromised.
[01:31:20]  That's true.
[01:31:21]  That's because Google is now a wholly owned subsidiary.
[01:31:25]  Should I go to Bing?
[01:31:26]  Yeah, Bing it.
[01:31:28]  It's a subsidiary of Hillary Corp now, man.
[01:31:30]  Shit.
[01:31:31]  Yeah.
[01:31:32]  That's right.
[01:31:34]  So you never find the truth on there.
[01:31:36]  The fact that.
[01:31:38]  Catherine O'Brien.
[01:31:39]  Kathy O'Brien.
[01:31:40]  Fuck.
[01:31:40]  Sorry.
[01:31:40]  The fact that the mom is gone.
[01:31:42]  Yeah.
[01:31:44]  She'll never be able to tell her side.
[01:31:45]  She'll never be able to tell her side.
[01:31:49]  I don't know.
[01:31:50]  Yeah.
[01:31:50]  I don't know.
[01:31:51]  This is another one like Jack the Ripper where we don't really have a conclusion.
[01:31:54]  Yeah, but this is a different.
[01:31:57]  This to me is different than Jack the Ripper.
[01:31:59]  Because you lived through it?
[01:32:00]  Yeah, well, no, not just that, but it's like this happened 20 years ago.
[01:32:04]  Like, no one's saying anything.
[01:32:05]  Yeah.
[01:32:06]  Well, a lot of people are saying stuff.
[01:32:08]  It's the case with all of these.
[01:32:09]  They're saying stuff, but it's wackadoo.
[01:32:11]  I can't.
[01:32:11]  I'm saying wackadoo a lot.
[01:32:12]  I can't believe that if it was some.
[01:32:16]  Well, alright, this leads me to believe maybe it was some more.
[01:32:20]  clandestine.
[01:32:21]  clandestine people.
[01:32:23]  It could be.
[01:32:24]  I mean, maybe the silence and the fact that they haven't found anybody speaks to that.
[01:32:28]  Yeah.
[01:32:28]  If you were someone who's involved with some sort of skunk ops type of real deep dark government type stuff, It would make sense that maybe your DNA is not on file, so cops don't accidentally find you when you leave evidence behind, right?
[01:32:46]  Of course, of course, of course.
[01:32:47]  Now, or just spinning out into such bizarre hypothetical.
[01:32:51]  If your DNA is on file, that would be because you're in the system.
[01:32:55]  Yeah, you've been arrested for so long.
[01:32:56]  It could have been somebody who just was never arrested.
[01:32:58]  True, yeah, that's, I mean, that's the big conclusion that you would take away from that.
[01:33:01]  Yeah.
[01:33:02]  But that's crazy that something this, this high level could be done by someone who's never committed a crime before.
[01:33:08]  Also, The thing that I keep coming back to and that really bothers me is that this crime would take forever to commit.
[01:33:15]  Yeah.
[01:33:16]  It would not be.
[01:33:17]  Hours.
[01:33:18]  At least hours.
[01:33:19]  At least an hour.
[01:33:20]  Because the low end of the head wound to murder is 45 minutes.
[01:33:25]  So you'd have to be in the house.
[01:33:26]  Any idea with what she was hit with?
[01:33:28]  They say a flashlight or a similar object.
[01:33:30]  A blunt object.
[01:33:31]  Okay.
[01:33:31]  It's like one of those police flashlights or something.
[01:33:33]  Could have been.
[01:33:33]  Yeah.
[01:33:34]  Okay.
[01:33:34]  Or a flashlight.
[01:33:35]  Dan.
[01:33:36]  They're our sponsor.
[01:33:37]  They're plastic.
[01:33:39]  I know.
[01:33:39]  I know.
[01:33:40]  So, like, the idea that it could be some sort of amateurish person doesn't make sense to me.
[01:33:47]  And then, yeah, another thing the profilers who talked about it think that the sort of level of sexual assault would imply a youthful person because they were sort of naively curious about her as opposed to, you know what I'm saying?
[01:34:06]  I feel very uncomfortable.
[01:34:07]  Please say this.
[01:34:08]  Well, just the idea of possible fingering or that sort of thing.
[01:34:12]  Oh, okay.
[01:34:13]  Leads the investigators to believe that it's not someone who knows a lot about a person's body.
[01:34:19]  It would be someone who's sort of exploring.
[01:34:22]  Because there is foreign DNA on the underwear, so there is indications that possibly something was going on, but not full scale.
[01:34:31]  Anyway, this is a lot of stuff that was making me really, really sort of disgusted and weirded out while I was researching this today.
[01:34:37]  What was that friend's name again?
[01:34:39]  Fleet?
[01:34:39]  Fleet Foxes?
[01:34:40]  Just Google Fleet's name.
[01:34:42]  Fleet whatever.
[01:34:43]  Okay.
[01:34:44]  So, see what he's up to.
[01:34:46]  You want to talk while we do that?
[01:34:47]  What if I crack this case?
[01:34:49]  It would be unacceptable if you did just that way.
[01:34:53]  What if?
[01:34:54]  I mean, they've been.
[01:34:55]  The first thing that comes up is they've been exonerated repeatedly.
[01:34:59]  Yeah.
[01:35:00]  The people have been like, hey, don't go after them.
[01:35:03]  Yeah.
[01:35:04]  We have evidence that they.
[01:35:05]  Yeah.
[01:35:07]  So this would have happened already.
[01:35:10]  What?
[01:35:11]  The fourth thing that comes up in Google is a website called Someone is Getting Away with Murder.blogspot.com.
[01:35:18]  Oh, shit.
[01:35:21]  Well, Someone is Getting Away with Murder in this case.
[01:35:24]  Although Fleet White was never a suspect in John Bonet's murder, White Is the only person at the murder scene who has spent time in jail stemming from the case.
[01:35:32]  Whoa.
[01:35:34]  So they locked him up a little bit?
[01:35:36]  I guess so.
[01:35:38]  Huh.
[01:35:38]  I don't know.
[01:35:39]  Anyway, my conclusion is that I don't know if we'll ever get to the bottom of this one ever.
[01:35:43]  Well, we've got the 20th anniversary coming up, so expect a Dateline special.
[01:35:48]  Sure.
[01:35:48]  Expect maybe a hot doc dropping on Netflix.
[01:35:52]  And when it does, remember that we did it first.
[01:35:54]  We cracked the case wide open.
[01:35:57]  That it was clearly aliens.
[01:35:59]  Now, if you had to say.
[01:36:00]  Yeah.
[01:36:01]  What do you, if you had to?
[01:36:03]  I kind of have an idea.
[01:36:05]  I hate to say it, but based on everything, I think the parents are the best suspect, but there was someone else involved.
[01:36:16]  That, like, that to me is the, that's the only way that, like, the stuff that makes it look like the parents and the stuff that doesn't look like the parents come together.
[01:36:26]  That's the only combination of events that, because, like, a total stranger, That's a crazy amount of time for you to be undetected in someone's house.
[01:36:35]  If it's them, there's too many issues with unrelated DNA.
[01:36:42]  It's just a big problem both ways.
[01:36:44]  The solution, combine them.
[01:36:46]  Now, I don't know if that's logical, but it's where I'm going.
[01:36:49]  What do you mean?
[01:36:50]  What do you mean?
[01:36:51]  What do you mean combined them?
[01:36:52]  Well, just say that it's the parents and somebody else.
[01:36:54]  Explain the thing about the pineapple again.
[01:36:56]  She was eating.
[01:36:57]  She had pineapple in her stomach that she had eaten based on digestion.
[01:37:01]  She had eaten it a couple hours before the murder.
[01:37:04]  So sometime overnight.
[01:37:06]  Uh, or in the early morning hours, I'd say maybe midnight is probably the latest.
[01:37:10]  Okay, okay, okay.
[01:37:11]  You're saying, why was she up that late?
[01:37:13]  Uh huh.
[01:37:14]  And the bowl was left on the counter and the bowl had her brother's fingerprints on it.
[01:37:18]  Which could mean that her brother made her a bowl of pineapple at some point.
[01:37:21]  That doesn't seem all that crazy to me.
[01:37:23]  The part that seems crazy is the timing of it.
[01:37:25]  The timeline of it is, is, is pretty.
[01:37:27]  When you wake up in the middle of the night, I'm not sure pineapple is what you want.
[01:37:30]  This was Christmas night?
[01:37:31]  Twenty, the night of the 25th.
[01:37:33]  The morning of the 26th is when they found her.
[01:37:35]  So it was Christmas night.
[01:37:36]  I had an idea.
[01:37:37]  I had a theory.
[01:37:38]  Where the son had a friend over.
[01:37:41]  Okay.
[01:37:41]  A sleepover, if you will.
[01:37:44]  Friend.
[01:37:45]  But there's no evidence to back that up.
[01:37:47]  And then the friend's father is a very powerful man.
[01:37:50]  Uh huh.
[01:37:51]  And they said, We'll fix this.
[01:37:53]  I don't like when you give these theories, you speak so softly.
[01:37:56]  Like you're.
[01:37:57]  No, I don't know.
[01:37:58]  But that's fun, I guess, as a theory.
[01:38:01]  But again, it gets back to that there's no proof that anyone else was in the house.
[01:38:05]  I'd hate to think that parents had anything to do with it.
[01:38:07]  Oh, wait.
[01:38:08]  Lie detector tests.
[01:38:08]  I hate that idea.
[01:38:09]  Have they ever given the parents any lie detector tests?
[01:38:11]  Yeah, if they have, they passed them.
[01:38:13]  Shit.
[01:38:13]  I don't know.
[01:38:16]  Weird that that didn't come up in my thing.
[01:38:18]  I know, right?
[01:38:19]  I don't know.
[01:38:19]  But lie detector tests are also, even if we did have something, it's so inconsistent.
[01:38:22]  Again, this goes back to the whole deathbed confession.
[01:38:28]  Like, if she had something to do with it, I wish she would have just been like, I'm a bad person.
[01:38:33]  I did it.
[01:38:34]  Yeah.
[01:38:34]  Or we did it.
[01:38:35]  Yeah, but I mean, if you're that bad of a person, you probably don't feel all that guilty.
[01:38:39]  Fuck.
[01:38:40]  All right.
[01:38:40]  Worst case scenario, or most explanation.
[01:38:42]  I don't know.
[01:38:43]  So they think her handwriting.
[01:38:45]  It's possible that her handwriting would have matched.
[01:38:47]  I don't want to just go, ah, she seemed like a bitch.
[01:38:49]  Because, okay, you could be a bitch, but it doesn't mean you're going to kill your kid.
[01:38:52]  Totally.
[01:38:53]  The idea of killing a kid is like, it's next level kind of evil shit.
[01:38:57]  Yeah.
[01:38:58]  And especially killing a kid in that way.
[01:38:59]  But, head force trauma, choking the head force trauma.
[01:39:05]  Could it have been a man, I just got so mad.
[01:39:10]  I whacked this kid with something.
[01:39:12]  Mm hmm.
[01:39:13]  Sure.
[01:39:13]  She won't sleep.
[01:39:15]  I'm getting her pineapple.
[01:39:16]  Uh huh.
[01:39:16]  I catch her and her brother fucking around in the kitchen.
[01:39:19]  I wake up.
[01:39:19]  Brother's trying to steal the pineapple.
[01:39:21]  I said, you go to bed.
[01:39:22]  Uh huh.
[01:39:22]  I said, you finish your pineapple and you're going to bed.
[01:39:24]  She pulls some shit.
[01:39:26]  She says, you know what?
[01:39:26]  I don't even want to do your fucking beauty page anymore.
[01:39:29]  Pants her over the head with something.
[01:39:30]  Kabong.
[01:39:31]  Oh, but John.
[01:39:33]  Well, here's the reason that I discount that theory.
[01:39:36]  Okay.
[01:39:37]  There's no history of abuse.
[01:39:39]  That's true.
[01:39:39]  She doesn't have, like, a ton of bruises from past beatings or anything like that.
[01:39:43]  It's generally very uncommon for people who don't abuse their kids to.
[01:39:48]  Zero to 100.
[01:39:49]  Yeah, just start.
[01:39:50]  And it's the same with the Burke.
[01:39:53]  You know, he doesn't have a history of abuse either.
[01:39:55]  So, like.
[01:39:55]  So, what are we doing?
[01:39:56]  What are we saying?
[01:39:57]  I still think the parents are.
[01:39:58]  We got to arrest somebody.
[01:39:59]  Yeah.
[01:40:00]  I mean, if you want to go with the.
[01:40:01]  Like, nothing looks good.
[01:40:04]  That's what we were talking about before we started recording here.
[01:40:07]  I feel like this is an OJ type of thing where if you tried the parents, they wouldn't have been found guilty.
[01:40:17]  But then in a civil suit, they might have been found guilty.
[01:40:20]  And that might be partially what that indictment from 99 was like.
[01:40:24]  Yeah, so the police department can at least go look.
[01:40:27]  We might not have found out who did it, but they got something to do with it.
[01:40:31]  It's possible.
[01:40:32]  That's possible.
[01:40:32]  And you never know.
[01:40:33]  It's very unsatisfying, right?
[01:40:34]  And you never know when it could just be one of those things where some real powerful people are just like, let it go.
[01:40:43]  Close the case.
[01:40:44]  Don't look into this.
[01:40:44]  Don't look into this.
[01:40:45]  Deep Throat comes out.
[01:40:46]  You don't want to know.
[01:40:47]  You're going down a road you don't want to know.
[01:40:48]  The cigarette smoking man and Deep Throat show up together.
[01:40:51]  That trope in a movie of, you don't want to go down this road.
[01:40:54]  Yeah.
[01:40:55]  That might be around for a reason.
[01:40:58]  It might be, or it might just be the fun fantasy of people who think they're getting to the bottom of stuff.

=== Deep Throat Road Not Taken (04:25) ===

[01:41:04]  Maybe.
[01:41:04]  Yeah.
[01:41:05]  Well.
[01:41:14]  I gotta say, Dan, I'm like you on this one.
[01:41:16]  I'm you, Jack the Ripper style.
[01:41:17]  I'm fucking pissed I don't know who this is.
[01:41:19]  It's really ungratifying.
[01:41:20]  And my mind keeps going to different, like, fuck, You know, I don't know.
[01:41:26]  I mean, if that preacher who these people think killed her killed her, then that could work.
[01:41:31]  But there's not the actual evidence of it.
[01:41:33]  Yeah.
[01:41:36]  Who knows?
[01:41:36]  I think it maybe will be solved eventually, especially if it's not the parents.
[01:41:40]  Yeah.
[01:41:41]  It'll be solved eventually.
[01:41:42]  But it's just a matter of waiting for that piece of evidence to come in.
[01:41:45]  Yeah.
[01:41:46]  And who knows?
[01:41:47]  Maybe it'll be someone in prison who's like, ah, come on, guys, it was me.
[01:41:51]  Maybe they find God in prison and want redemption and they have to confess their sins.
[01:41:57]  It's fucked up.
[01:41:58]  It is unsatisfying, though, man.
[01:42:00]  We gotta stop picking topics that are super unsatisfying.
[01:42:03]  I know.
[01:42:03]  Because then we end the episode in this, like, ah, here's some information.
[01:42:07]  We don't know anything.
[01:42:08]  Yeah.
[01:42:08]  Enjoy.
[01:42:09]  Have a great day.
[01:42:09]  Yeah.
[01:42:10]  Enjoy your Tuesday.
[01:42:11]  That might be, you know, that might be the thing.
[01:42:14]  Where I wish we could do this show, but.
[01:42:17]  And then have it set up at the end where someone's like, hey, you guys were so close.
[01:42:22]  Here's the real answer.
[01:42:22]  And then they give us the answer.
[01:42:24]  Like almost like now we're turning this into a murder mystery podcast.
[01:42:27]  Well, it won't be always.
[01:42:28]  No.
[01:42:29]  It kind of is always.
[01:42:30]  It always is, Dan.
[01:42:34]  Anyway, people can follow you at Marty DeRosa on Twitter.
[01:42:36]  Yep, at Marty DeRosa.
[01:42:37]  Listen to Marty and Sarah Love Wrestling.
[01:42:39]  Great podcast.
[01:42:40]  You guys are doing a live SummerSlam thing next weekend?
[01:42:43]  We are next weekend, Sunday at Anthem in Wicker Park.
[01:42:46]  Get there around 5 o'clock.
[01:42:47]  We're going to have a.
[01:42:48]  I may come out for that.
[01:42:49]  You should.
[01:42:49]  It's going to be fine.
[01:42:50]  I thought it was in the suburbs, so I wasn't going to come.
[01:42:52]  It's here.
[01:42:52]  It's in Wicker Park.
[01:42:53]  I think buddies will be there.
[01:42:55]  Anthem.
[01:42:55]  Is Colt going to be there?
[01:42:56]  Colt will not be there.
[01:42:57]  He'll be in, uh, he'll see you in Edinburgh.
[01:42:59]  I'm out then.
[01:43:00]  I only want to come along to do some star fucking.
[01:43:02]  Yeah, well, look, we're stars now, okay?
[01:43:05]  Yeah, you guys are doing great.
[01:43:06]  You got a write up in the AV Club.
[01:43:08]  It's super fun.
[01:43:08]  AV Club.
[01:43:09]  Split Cider.
[01:43:10]  Top 100 on iTunes Sports and Recreation.
[01:43:13]  Beating Vince Russo's podcast.
[01:43:14]  Get on board.
[01:43:15]  That's a swerve.
[01:43:17]  Eh, brother.
[01:43:17]  Come on.
[01:43:18]  Uh, you can follow me at Freezenpoint, and freezenpoint.com is our website where we have stuff.
[01:43:24]  There's things there.
[01:43:24]  Good.
[01:43:25]  Yeah.
[01:43:27]  Well, maybe we'll find truth next time.
[01:43:30]  Maybe.
[01:43:30]  Maybe not.
[01:43:31]  Maybe not.
[01:43:31]  Who knows?
[01:43:32]  Who knows?
[01:43:33]  All I know is that's what they want you to think.
[01:43:35]  Yep, that's great.
[01:43:36]  Thanks for listening, everybody out there.
[01:43:40]  Boy, I lost my catchphrase.
[01:43:41]  Thanks for joining us in the Brain Battle.
[01:43:43]  Catch you next time right here in Boomtown.
[01:43:44]  But until then, I've been Bogle Jub, the White Mystery.
[01:43:47]  Now get out there and do your job.
[01:43:49]  And solve mysteries.
[01:44:02]  That's what they want you to think.
[01:44:10]  That's what they want you to think.
[01:44:28]  You to think.
[01:44:29]  And you to think.
[01:44:33]  Children die.
[01:44:35]  In Boulder Colorado, found in a wine cellar.
[01:44:41]  But who the fuck put her there?
[01:44:44]  They made a carrot with a broken paintbrush handle.
[01:44:50]  She had some pineapple, but what would you eat for your last meal?
[01:44:55]  I would have pizza and mashed potato not a great mix and macaroni and cheese.
[01:45:04]  I love carbs.
[01:45:06]  That's what I'd eat.
[01:45:11]  For my last meal, I'd have a milkshake to drink.
[01:45:17]  Wash it down.
[01:45:22]  Also, for dessert, I would have some peach cobbler with a little bit of ice cream.

=== Last Meal Peach Cobbler (02:40) ===

[01:45:30]  Not talking aloe.
[01:45:32]  Maybe some blueberry cobbler.
[01:45:35]  I don't know what it is about.
[01:45:38]  A cobbler that I like.
[01:45:43]  It's probably me.
[01:45:45]  The crumble, it's delicious.
[01:45:48]  It's hot and cold, which is what a la mode brings to the table.
[01:45:56]  You love the McVLT.
[01:46:00]  Lockheed Martin, we're on to you.
[01:46:03]  Our new sponsors.
[01:46:03]  Lockheed Martin, we're going to retract this whole podcast.
[01:46:07]  Ignore it.
[01:46:07]  Pretend it didn't happen.
[01:46:10]  Get out there.
[01:46:11]  Solve some mysteries guys.
[01:46:13]  We can't do it all on our own Are you just gonna talk sing over the rest of this?
[01:46:18]  Fine.
[01:46:18]  I'll go back to singing What's up with that brother?
[01:46:25]  Hasn't he said anything?
[01:46:27]  Not really.
[01:46:28]  He's gotta be almost 30 He smokes medical marijuana.
[01:46:33]  Oh, they did Michigan which also has medical marijuana Maybe this guy had shrooms and is like what happened to my sister dude?
[01:46:42]  I gotta call my dad and see what really happened Hey dad, it's your son.
[01:46:49]  I'm on mushrooms dude.
[01:46:50]  What the fuck really happened?
[01:46:52]  Did mom have something to do with this?
[01:46:55]  What about your weird name friend fleet friend fleet friendly fleet?
[01:47:00]  You worked at Lockheed Martin It was a subsidiary Not technically working at Lockheed just a contract company a shell company possibly To really do some dark stuff.
[01:47:21]  Skunk work.
[01:47:21]  Quote unquote graphics.
[01:47:23]  Shit.
[01:47:26]  Shit.
[01:47:28]  You gotta wake up real early in the morning to fool me and to write that ransom note.
[01:47:35]  Were there any previous versions of this ransom note?
[01:47:40]  Did this detective check the garbage or the fireplace?
[01:47:46]  Are you asking about a rough draft?
[01:47:51]  I am very much.
[01:47:53]  You don't just knock that out first time.
[01:47:56]  It was pretty well written.
[01:47:59]  That's true.
[01:48:01]  I don't know, man.
[01:48:02]  I don't either.
[01:48:03]  I get it, too.
[01:48:04]  Yeah.
[01:48:05]  See you next time.
[01:48:08]  Peace.