Knowledge Fight - Bonus - Salem Witch Trials
Aired: 2017-07-14
Duration: 01:39:50


=== Minister of Truth Intro (09:49) ===

[00:00:00]  All I do is smash heads, bro.
[00:00:14]  Hey, everybody.
[00:00:15]  Hello.
[00:00:15]  Welcome back to Freezen Point.
[00:00:16]  I'm Dan Freezen.
[00:00:17]  Alongside me, my man, my main man, my conspiracy theory bro, my minister of truth.
[00:00:25]  Ladies and gentlemen, Marty DeRosa.
[00:00:26]  I am the main man with the conspiracy theory plan.
[00:00:29]  Yes.
[00:00:30]  I am.
[00:00:32]  What's else?
[00:00:34]  I feel like minister of truth is strong.
[00:00:36]  Minister of truth sounds like there was someone in Public Enemy who was the minister of truth.
[00:00:39]  Yeah, probably Professor Griff.
[00:00:41]  Professor Griff, Sister Soldier.
[00:00:43]  Yeah, you're one of them.
[00:00:44]  Yeah, but the minister of truth.
[00:00:46]  Very forward-minded, making a woman the minister of truth.
[00:00:49]  I feel like, also, if you, if you, uh, if, if I was gonna have R-Truth, uh, the pro wrestler R-Truth officiate my wedding, he, he also would be the minister of truth.
[00:00:59]  Yeah, he would.
[00:01:00]  That would be a great wedding.
[00:01:02]  In, in, uh, Ring of Honor.
[00:01:03]  The ring bearer would be an invisible child.
[00:01:05]  Ooh.
[00:01:06]  Uh, in Ring of Honor, uh, which, uh, Cole Cabana famously wrestles for.
[00:01:11]  Yes, and you're, you're a VIP.
[00:01:13]  One, lifelong VIP anyway.
[00:01:16]  Uh, but, um, one of the, Heal Factions is managed by Truth Martini, who is a.
[00:01:24]  You got to get him on the show, Dan.
[00:01:25]  Done.
[00:01:27]  You got to get him on the show.
[00:01:28]  I don't like gin.
[00:01:29]  Jim?
[00:01:30]  Gin is a martini.
[00:01:31]  Oh, Truth Martini.
[00:01:32]  Sorry.
[00:01:33]  Anyway, well, literally.
[00:01:35]  Boy, oh boy.
[00:01:35]  You want to just stop the podcast right now?
[00:01:36]  Here's the problem.
[00:01:37]  We're recording this in the middle of the day.
[00:01:39]  It's really hot out.
[00:01:40]  I am fresh off of brunch with no booze.
[00:01:42]  I'm feeling amazing.
[00:01:43]  You got a sober brunch?
[00:01:44]  I got in a fight with my bus driver.
[00:01:45]  You did.
[00:01:46]  See, that put me in a weird mood.
[00:01:48]  Yeah.
[00:01:49]  This guy that I've known for six, seven years.
[00:01:51]  I know.
[00:01:51]  Maybe he's been racist all along.
[00:01:53]  Hey, whoa.
[00:01:55]  Yelling at black bus drivers.
[00:01:55]  I just happened to be black and I just happened to be white.
[00:01:57]  It was a door issue.
[00:01:58]  It was not a race issue.
[00:01:59]  But anyway, Truth Martini, his faction is called the House of Truth.
[00:02:04]  Yeah.
[00:02:05]  And he has a book called The Book of Truth.
[00:02:07]  Anytime you use truth, it becomes like you're lying.
[00:02:10]  You know, it automatically, whenever you put a word on it, does that protest or claim to know the truth too much?
[00:02:16]  Someone doth.
[00:02:17]  Doth do.
[00:02:18]  So anyway, guys, I want to say thank you to everybody who loves That's What They Want You to Think.
[00:02:23]  I'm still getting, I'm still getting, uh, Facebook messages and tweets about, uh, Alyssa Lamb.
[00:02:29]  Alyssa Lamb.
[00:02:30]  Yeah.
[00:02:30]  I'm still getting, you motherfuckers.
[00:02:31]  I'll get a, I'll get a, I'll get a photo, like a text message.
[00:02:34]  I'll get a photo of an elevator and going, well, I don't want to go on this because of you and fucking Dan.
[00:02:38]  I'm like, uh.
[00:02:38]  You've made me fear normal things.
[00:02:40]  We did our job.
[00:02:41]  And then someone took a picture of a woman cut in half in the park and they're like, ugh, you guys.
[00:02:44]  I'm like, what?
[00:02:46]  I'm kidding.
[00:02:46]  That's a Black Dahlia.
[00:02:47]  For all of the, like, podcasts I've done, we're like in the 320s or so now episodes.
[00:02:53]  Yeah.
[00:02:53]  Nothing has really rung, People's bell, quite like you and me talking about weird shit.
[00:02:59]  I think.
[00:02:59]  So, thanks to everybody.
[00:03:01]  Yeah.
[00:03:02]  And it's like I always say with these if you're sitting behind the desk at work right now or something like that, maybe this isn't.
[00:03:08]  Maybe you go listen to another episode of Freezing Point.
[00:03:11]  Sure.
[00:03:12]  Plenty of those available.
[00:03:12]  Plenty of those available.
[00:03:14]  Maybe you get a little sweet tooth for wrestling, pop over to Marty and Sarah Love Wrestling.
[00:03:18]  Sure.
[00:03:18]  You can get that on SiriusXM.
[00:03:21]  Not yet.
[00:03:21]  Oh, that was just playing on his thing.
[00:03:23]  Oh, okay.
[00:03:23]  I saw that picture on my Twitter.
[00:03:25]  I got a picture of it.
[00:03:25]  But, or.
[00:03:27]  Uh, maybe you like music, you know, make yourself a jam sandwich.
[00:03:30]  Sure, all of these are options for your day.
[00:03:32]  But with this one, this is when that sun needs to be down.
[00:03:37]  Mm hmm.
[00:03:38]  The moon has come up.
[00:03:39]  You're maybe a little high.
[00:03:41]  Yep.
[00:03:41]  You're in bed, maybe.
[00:03:43]  I don't recommend listening to this drunk.
[00:03:45]  Here's what I say.
[00:03:45]  High is way better.
[00:03:46]  Here's what I say.
[00:03:48]  You've had a long day at work.
[00:03:49]  Mm hmm.
[00:03:50]  Okay, and in my scenario, this is kind of a hot babe.
[00:03:52]  What's this hot babe doing as a job?
[00:03:55]  Is she like in administration?
[00:03:56]  So, like at an office or something like that?
[00:03:58]  She's a nurse.
[00:03:59]  Oh, shit.
[00:03:59]  She's a nurse.
[00:03:59]  She's a lot more.
[00:04:00]  Very codependent.
[00:04:01]  She's had a long day.
[00:04:02]  Emotionally drained from dealing with the issues of other people.
[00:04:06]  Yeah.
[00:04:06]  She works three on, four off.
[00:04:07]  She just hit her third day.
[00:04:09]  She is exhausted.
[00:04:10]  Oh, my God.
[00:04:11]  She is home.
[00:04:11]  But she has four days off now.
[00:04:13]  Four days off.
[00:04:14]  That's a long haul.
[00:04:15]  Four days off.
[00:04:17]  She lit some candles in the bathroom and smoked a little J.
[00:04:21]  A little free tree.
[00:04:23]  Yeah, a little free tree.
[00:04:25]  Burning that herb.
[00:04:26]  And then she's ready to.
[00:04:27]  She drew a bath.
[00:04:29]  Let me ask you this.
[00:04:30]  Yeah.
[00:04:30]  Bath expert Dan Friesen checking in.
[00:04:32]  Oh, we got a call?
[00:04:33]  We got a call?
[00:04:34]  Bath expert Dan Friesen from Chicago?
[00:04:35]  I just saw my eyes get wet.
[00:04:36]  Oh, bath talk.
[00:04:38]  So I'm just asking.
[00:04:39]  Yeah.
[00:04:39]  Salts, bath bomb, or bubbles?
[00:04:43]  In this young lady scenario.
[00:04:46]  She's got.
[00:04:48]  Uh, what are the, not salts, what are the other one?
[00:04:50]  Bath bomb?
[00:04:51]  Bath bomb.
[00:04:51]  Oh, yeah.
[00:04:52]  She's got a bath bomb.
[00:04:52]  Okay.
[00:04:53]  Yeah.
[00:04:53]  It's a good choice.
[00:04:54]  Yeah, she's got a bath bomb.
[00:04:55]  Maybe a pillow that goes on the back of the bath.
[00:04:57]  You know what she did?
[00:04:58]  Cause all the other nurses are like, you gotta get this.
[00:05:00]  She got this one thing you get on Amazon.
[00:05:01]  It's got suction cups and you put it on the wall.
[00:05:03]  Are you talking about a dildo?
[00:05:05]  No.
[00:05:05]  Dan.
[00:05:07]  You could have been, to be fair.
[00:05:08]  Dan, suction cups that go on the bathroom wall.
[00:05:10]  That's, that's in her drawer, uh, on the side of her bed.
[00:05:13]  That's, that's for later.
[00:05:14]  But, uh, so she's got all the accoutrements that make her, what are you talking about the suction cups?
[00:05:20]  Is that the pillow?
[00:05:20]  To put the pillow on the wall so it doesn't slide down or anything.
[00:05:23]  That's implied.
[00:05:23]  Yeah.
[00:05:24]  Oh, okay.
[00:05:25]  Sorry.
[00:05:25]  I didn't know.
[00:05:25]  When I said pillow, I'm not talking about like a bed pillow.
[00:05:28]  Sorry.
[00:05:28]  I didn't know I was talking to you.
[00:05:30]  The bath master.
[00:05:31]  So she turns off the lights, candles go.
[00:05:33]  Candles.
[00:05:34]  And then she hits.
[00:05:36]  Here's what she did because she's such a fan of this podcast.
[00:05:38]  She skipped past the Sami Zayn theme song, the us dicking around.
[00:05:42]  She got straight to.
[00:05:44]  Straight into.
[00:05:45]  That's what they want you to think.
[00:05:50]  They don't want you to use.
[00:05:51]  Use your third eye to know what the truth is.
[00:05:54]  If you don't know what we're talking about this week, maybe Dan put it in the description.
[00:06:00]  I don't know, but it's something that's always been on my mind thinking, How the fuck did that happen?
[00:06:06]  Was our society ready to crumble at such an early age in this country's life?
[00:06:10]  Life, life, women are afraid of you.
[00:06:14]  We're men, we can't handle your power, power, power.
[00:06:19]  That's what they want you to think.
[00:06:23]  I gotta say, we nailed that.
[00:06:27]  We nailed that music cue coming up.
[00:06:29]  Yeah, I had a whole other line about periods, and I just can't imagine.
[00:06:35]  And I've thought about this too.
[00:06:36]  This has been another.
[00:06:37]  Speaking as a producer, I had to cut you off there.
[00:06:39]  Sure, I know.
[00:06:39]  I understand.
[00:06:40]  It was spiraling.
[00:06:41]  It was getting too self indulgent.
[00:06:42]  Some of the things I've wondered about.
[00:06:43]  Sure.
[00:06:44]  Like, I'll have these questions.
[00:06:46]  I think we talked about it in the elevator last time about why specifically African slaves were picked.
[00:06:51]  Uh huh.
[00:06:52]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:06:53]  I get these questions sometimes in my heads.
[00:06:55]  In my heads.
[00:06:56]  Head.
[00:06:56]  In my head.
[00:06:59]  Oh, I hope everybody listens to all the Dan Friesen family podcasts.
[00:07:05]  Sure.
[00:07:07]  On Jam Sandwich.
[00:07:09]  On Jam Sandwich.
[00:07:10]  Where I famously posed nude.
[00:07:13]  Yes.
[00:07:13]  I took a tasteful nude in your Starbucks bathrobe.
[00:07:16]  Or Starbucks cooking robe.
[00:07:17]  You could probably find that on manontop69.com.
[00:07:20]  Well, you most definitely can find that on.
[00:07:21]  That's going to be one where someone's like, what the fuck?
[00:07:23]  But they'll still see that and go, eh, I'm okay.
[00:07:25]  Yeah.
[00:07:25]  But, uh, what do you think?
[00:07:28]  That episode actually should be out today.
[00:07:30]  Sure.
[00:07:31]  So, like, if you're listening to this, And you want to hear Marty on Jam Sandwich, that episode should be out right now, actually.
[00:07:36]  So go fucking listen to that.
[00:07:38]  We had a good time.
[00:07:39]  I might say a few things.
[00:07:40]  One of the bands.
[00:07:40]  In the microphone.
[00:07:41]  One of the bands.
[00:07:42]  One of the things we talked about.
[00:07:44]  I don't think I'm speaking out of school here.
[00:07:45]  I think I can say this.
[00:07:46]  Fair.
[00:07:46]  We talked about bands that we wish never existed.
[00:07:49]  Yes.
[00:07:49]  Like if we could stop a band.
[00:07:51]  Limp Biscuit came up.
[00:07:52]  I think I might go with Evanescence.
[00:07:55]  Oh, really?
[00:07:55]  Yeah.
[00:07:56]  I like Evanescence.
[00:07:57]  Really?
[00:07:58]  Yeah, I like goth rock.
[00:07:59]  Because I just.
[00:08:01]  Not sincerely.
[00:08:02]  Someone posted one of their videos today on Facebook.
[00:08:04]  Wake me up?
[00:08:05]  No.
[00:08:06]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:08:07]  Call me when you're sober.
[00:08:08]  Wake me up before you go, goth.
[00:08:11]  Wake me up before you go goth.
[00:08:15]  So, Amy Lee was very attractive, though.
[00:08:18]  She was an attractive goth lady.
[00:08:19]  She had a nice voice.
[00:08:21]  I loved doing Wake Me Up at Karaoke.
[00:08:23]  That was one of my big karaoke jams.
[00:08:25]  I like also how you famously said on another podcast of yours that you hate when guys do what song at karaoke?
[00:08:34]  It's a female song.
[00:08:35]  Oh, Lance Morissette.
[00:08:36]  Yeah.
[00:08:36]  I was big on board with that.
[00:08:38]  I fucking hate that when you're trying to co-opt.
[00:08:40]  It's the same.
[00:08:41]  I've seen some people post snarky things about like, Like, the joke is you're unattractive, so you, like, pose slightly nude.
[00:08:50]  Like, big dudes always taking their shirt off.
[00:08:52]  I'm not talking about you.
[00:08:53]  I'm proud of my body.
[00:08:54]  Right.
[00:08:54]  Not that.
[00:08:54]  That's, that's different.
[00:08:55]  That's just you being gay as shit in my kitchen.
[00:08:59]  Wow, damn.
[00:08:59]  But I mean, like, fat guys with their shirt off being funny.
[00:09:02]  I don't really necessarily think that there's comedy value to that.
[00:09:04]  And, like, dude singing chick song, I don't really think there's much.
[00:09:09]  There's nothing super interesting about that.
[00:09:11]  Yeah.
[00:09:11]  Cause, like you said, they get that little gleam in their eyes and, like, when he goes, do you think about me?
[00:09:16]  When she goes down on you?
[00:09:18]  And at the end of that.
[00:09:19]  And they're probably like, yeah, that's where I, that's my big, uh.
[00:09:21]  That's my big closer.
[00:09:22]  I'm throwing it out there.
[00:09:23]  I'm gonna, you know what I'm doing to karaoke?
[00:09:25]  Meredith Brooks.
[00:09:26]  I'm doing bitch.
[00:09:27]  You know what I don't like?
[00:09:28]  I don't like when, when women, especially of color, oh boy, sing Pretty Fly for a White Guy.
[00:09:36]  Not a fan.
[00:09:37]  Not a fan.
[00:09:38]  Take that, take that shit somewhere else.
[00:09:40]  I don't like when people who don't like to be playful sing Original Prankster.
[00:09:47]  Trying to think of other bad offspring songs.
[00:09:48]  Yeah, man.

=== Karaoke Controversy Explained (03:04) ===

[00:09:49]  Wow.
[00:09:50]  I don't like people who are into combining things and keep them separated.
[00:09:54]  Okay.
[00:09:55]  Moving on.
[00:09:56]  So today.
[00:09:57]  That was me cutting off the theme song for you.
[00:09:59]  Exactly, because I was going to keep doing that for him.
[00:10:01]  Oh, I could just see your brain.
[00:10:03]  I don't like people who only speak English singing Ixne on the Ombre.
[00:10:06]  Okay, we're done.
[00:10:08]  I think that's just an album.
[00:10:09]  Yeah.
[00:10:09]  I think so too.
[00:10:10]  So today, Marty, you've chosen the topic for us to discuss.
[00:10:13]  Mm hmm.
[00:10:14]  In the theme song, you mentioned it's something that's always been on your mind.
[00:10:17]  Always.
[00:10:17]  That's interesting to me.
[00:10:18]  Always.
[00:10:19]  Anything that.
[00:10:21]  Uh, is of the kind of supernatural, but like real.
[00:10:26]  I'm on board.
[00:10:26]  Times that universes have intersected somewhat.
[00:10:30]  Yes.
[00:10:31]  Um, or just like, what the fuck were you guys thinking?
[00:10:34]  Like, one of the, one of the real, uh, weird hidden gems of the, the Nazi, the rise and fall of the Nazis is, uh, Hitler loved sending his bros on excursions.
[00:10:43]  By the way, this is only one of the hidden gems.
[00:10:47]  I know, I know.
[00:10:48]  There's so many.
[00:10:48]  But all we, but like, we, and here's one of the things that I think both you and I are drawn to about the, the, the, Yeah, and that there's so many layers in that world that you're never taught in schools.
[00:11:05]  Right.
[00:11:05]  And imagine, like, if I was sitting in class and one of our teachers was like, so yeah, you know, they put the Jews in the concentration camp.
[00:11:12]  They tried to take over Europe.
[00:11:14]  Also, they believed that there was a fountain of youth.
[00:11:17]  They believed that there was a, just all these different.
[00:11:20]  They studied the writings of Ponce de Leon.
[00:11:21]  Yeah, basically they thought there was all these, like, Treasures out there that were actively working on a time machine, yeah, yeah, while at where they did, uh, probably, but anyway, um, a lot of stuff like that.
[00:11:34]  And then one of the things I remember, um, I don't know, I don't know who he sent out, but they went to, uh, I don't know what continent and probably Antarctica.
[00:11:44]  No, it might have been like Africa or something like that, but anyway, there were these like, uh, native people and they were so fascinated with how they look, they wanted to take like a plaster casting mold of their faces to bring back to Hitler.
[00:11:56]  To be like, look at these weirdos.
[00:11:59]  And somehow these tribespeople were like, okay.
[00:12:01]  Like, it was so bizarre.
[00:12:02]  They were like, okay.
[00:12:03]  That is weird.
[00:12:04]  They'd just be game.
[00:12:05]  Well, what, what they forgot to do was put, like, a straw or some type of breathing apparatus through it, and they killed a bunch of these people, and they were like, oh shit, and then they just had to wipe a bunch out.
[00:12:13]  So it's like, oh, Nazis.
[00:12:14]  But, I don't know, I don't even know why.
[00:12:18]  That's, that like, oh, Nazis.
[00:12:20]  Oh, Nazis.
[00:12:20]  So like a sitcom-y response.
[00:12:22]  Yeah, like Hogan's Heroes, like, Adolf, it happens again.
[00:12:26]  Uh, so, um.
[00:12:28]  Your point with all that, though, is that like.
[00:12:30]  Real stuff that happened in our history, where I'm just like, I mean, like, even slavery, it's like, who thought this was okay?
[00:12:37]  Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
[00:12:38]  Real crazy.
[00:12:39]  And, and that, that mentality does also inform our, our modern lives in that, like, it would be stupid for us to think that a hundred years from now we won't look back on whatever culture is today and be like, how the fuck is that alright?

=== Probability and Periods (03:44) ===

[00:12:53]  Sure.
[00:12:54]  Sure.
[00:12:54]  I think, I think, uh.
[00:12:55]  Gay people, how we treat gay people and stuff.
[00:12:57]  Sure.
[00:12:58]  And women.
[00:12:58]  And women are trans.
[00:12:59]  That, uh, very much bleeds into our topic today.
[00:13:02]  No pun intended.
[00:13:04]  Oh, this was what I was gonna say.
[00:13:05]  I wonder what, like, even like in the caveman days, like when a woman got her period, they must have been like, What the fuck is going on with you?
[00:13:11]  We have to kill you.
[00:13:13]  Which I don't think they'd kill them because then society would die out.
[00:13:17]  But they do.
[00:13:18]  Like I know from a lot of old religious texts in general.
[00:13:21]  Oh, yeah.
[00:13:22]  What they would do is like, you are unclean.
[00:13:25]  Yeah.
[00:13:25]  So you must go to the shack.
[00:13:27]  Yeah, go to the love shack, baby.
[00:13:29]  Seats about 20.
[00:13:31]  Hurry up, have your period money.
[00:13:32]  And bring your period money.
[00:13:34]  Yeah.
[00:13:35]  Like, so there was.
[00:13:36]  I have to assume, even in caveman times, there was like, all right, you go to that part of the cave, no one can touch her.
[00:13:42]  Yeah.
[00:13:43]  That sort of thing.
[00:13:43]  Or there are real horny cavemen who are like, I'm into this.
[00:13:46]  You think there's cavemen who are popping the cork?
[00:13:47]  I'm into this.
[00:13:48]  So to speak.
[00:13:48]  It makes me feel like I'm killing you.
[00:13:50]  No.
[00:13:50]  Jesus.
[00:13:51]  Bob.
[00:13:52]  Sorry, sorry.
[00:13:53]  Can we strike that from the record?
[00:13:55]  Can we strike that from the record?
[00:13:56]  I might have to bleep that.
[00:13:58]  Shit.
[00:13:58]  Why did I say that?
[00:14:00]  Anyway, uh, another, another, uh, pot thought I had the other day was, it's kind of crazy how there's such a, cause I think I was watching MSNBC and, and, uh, and they were talking about, Well, like, you know, 51% of women and 49% of men.
[00:14:16]  And I'm like, it's so crazy how we're, like, so equal in numbers.
[00:14:20]  That's true.
[00:14:21]  Like, that's weird.
[00:14:23]  Why is that weird?
[00:14:24]  Why isn't there, like, 30% men, 70% women?
[00:14:27]  I think because of how, you know, how.
[00:14:29]  I mean, is it a genetic coin toss?
[00:14:31]  Yeah, basically, you know, with coin tosses, if you have a million coin tosses, there'll be approximately 500,000 heads and approximately 500 tails.
[00:14:39]  It's just weird how probability works out that way.
[00:14:42]  Maybe.
[00:14:42]  You have 7 billion people on the planet.
[00:14:45]  Right?
[00:14:46]  Something like that?
[00:14:46]  I don't know.
[00:14:47]  Six or seven.
[00:14:47]  Yeah.
[00:14:48]  So you have that.
[00:14:48]  Of course, it's going to be about 50-50.
[00:14:50]  Yeah.
[00:14:51]  Every time you fuck, it's a coin flip.
[00:14:54]  Well, every time you insult.
[00:14:55]  I flip a coin to go who's on top.
[00:14:56]  Oh, yeah?
[00:14:57]  Yeah.
[00:14:57]  Especially when you're 69ing.
[00:15:00]  I only do one person on top the whole time.
[00:15:03]  I never switch around.
[00:15:04]  No?
[00:15:04]  I'm like, you're either on top or I'm on top.
[00:15:06]  I don't switch around.
[00:15:06]  I'm kidding.
[00:15:07]  That's interesting.
[00:15:07]  I'm kidding.
[00:15:07]  You're a man of principle.
[00:15:08]  I'm kidding.
[00:15:10]  How many, how many position changes do you think you're good for?
[00:15:13]  That's a whole different question.
[00:15:14]  How many partners are you looking at?
[00:15:15]  Marty, right now.
[00:15:17]  Oh, my God.
[00:15:17]  No, how many position changes in a session do you think?
[00:15:19]  In a session?
[00:15:20]  I'll tell you, I think I'm good for like four.
[00:15:23]  Tops.
[00:15:25]  He's pantomiming and thinking, one, two, three.
[00:15:32]  Yeah, I think four is about your average.
[00:15:35]  It's difficult to pass four without it getting really weird.
[00:15:39]  Well, here's what happens.
[00:15:40]  Now, when you're starting to talk about those other positions, those are like you're going into it with a girl being like, hey, I saw this.
[00:15:46]  I want to try this.
[00:15:47]  You're talking about dippies?
[00:15:49]  Dippies?
[00:15:50]  Yeah.
[00:15:50]  I think I know what you're talking about.
[00:15:52]  From your act.
[00:15:53]  Yeah, dippies.
[00:15:54]  I call that mommy style now.
[00:15:56]  Anyway, I changed the name.
[00:15:58]  It's up mommy style.
[00:16:00]  If you want to understand that, go see Marty DeRosa live.
[00:16:04]  Live anywhere on the stage.
[00:16:06]  Um, but we're 16 minutes in.
[00:16:08]  We haven't said what we're talking about.
[00:16:09]  Let's just go the whole time.
[00:16:11]  All right.
[00:16:12]  You know what?
[00:16:12]  Enough talk, Dan.
[00:16:14]  Enough talk.
[00:16:16]  Playtime's over.
[00:16:17]  All right.
[00:16:21]  Talking about the Salem Witch trials.
[00:16:22]  Holy shit.
[00:16:23]  They happened.
[00:16:24]  They were real.
[00:16:24]  You can go there.
[00:16:25]  It's an amusement park kind of thing now.
[00:16:27]  There's at least, uh, there's a number, an amusement park.
[00:16:30]  I mean, I know that there's parks, parks, but I thought those were more like memorial parks, not like, hey, go on the witch's teacup ride.

=== Salem Witch Trials Context (09:31) ===

[00:16:37]  We're like, this is a hemlock.
[00:16:40]  Yeah.
[00:16:41]  Or how, like, those, like, escape chambers are the big things now.
[00:16:43]  Like, oh, can you get out?
[00:16:45]  That thing?
[00:16:46]  Those, like, they lock you in a room and you're, you're a sad date.
[00:16:49]  Oh, man.
[00:16:51]  Well, I mean, that's got to, isn't that what that is?
[00:16:53]  You think a lot of couples break up doing that?
[00:16:54]  Just fucking pull the thing.
[00:16:55]  I am.
[00:16:56]  I think it's not couples.
[00:16:58]  I think that's a date thing where it's like a fourth date or something like that and it's a bad idea or it's just for reality shows.
[00:17:04]  Yeah.
[00:17:05]  Like, reality games.
[00:17:06]  Did your boy Jimmy Pardo host one of those?
[00:17:08]  Race to Escape?
[00:17:09]  Yeah.
[00:17:09]  I think that got canceled.
[00:17:11]  Oh.
[00:17:11]  I think it might have.
[00:17:11]  I'm not sure.
[00:17:12]  You saw that coming.
[00:17:13]  I don't know.
[00:17:13]  It seems like a good idea.
[00:17:15]  You got people in a box.
[00:17:15]  But who wants to watch something where you know, like, just, it's that, it's the book.
[00:17:19]  Pull the book on the bookshelf and you'll be out of there.
[00:17:21]  Yeah.
[00:17:21]  It's the same thing with watching, like, a mystery that you know the answer to.
[00:17:25]  Like, if you watch, like, a Poirot.
[00:17:26]  Yeah.
[00:17:27]  You know what I'm not a fan of lately?
[00:17:28]  John Walsh has a new show on Headline News.
[00:17:30]  I thought he was dead.
[00:17:31]  Oh, hey.
[00:17:32]  I did.
[00:17:33]  I'm not, I'm not saying he should be.
[00:17:34]  That's his son you're talking about.
[00:17:36]  Oh, that's right.
[00:17:36]  You confused him with his son.
[00:17:38]  But anyway, uh, he has a show.
[00:17:40]  Uh, which is basically, it's kind of a new unsolved mysteries.
[00:17:42]  They go a little heavier into the backstory and it's just one person.
[00:17:46]  And then at the end, you're like waiting for the like, alright, so how'd they catch this guy?
[00:17:48]  And he's like, he's still on the loose.
[00:17:51]  And if you know, call Crime Stoppers.
[00:17:53]  And you're like, oh shit.
[00:17:54]  Yeah.
[00:17:55]  It's not quite, it's not quite the, uh, the, the nice feeling you get when Dateline wraps a bow on it.
[00:18:00]  And you, you know, okay, it was the ex boyfriend.
[00:18:02]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:18:03]  They give you the, the conclusion and it's either like he's in prison or we killed him.
[00:18:07]  You know, yeah.
[00:18:07]  Yeah.
[00:18:08]  But anyway, Salem Witch Trials.
[00:18:10]  Let's get into it.
[00:18:11]  I'm interested that this has fascinated you over life because to me, it's something that I learned about in school days.
[00:18:20]  Okay.
[00:18:21]  And I didn't care that much.
[00:18:22]  I will say that my research of it for preparation of this podcast has made me care more about it and then less.
[00:18:30]  Like the process of researching, I cared a lot and now I'm back to not caring much.
[00:18:36]  Here's why I love it.
[00:18:38]  And I don't feel like I, and maybe I wasn't paying attention in school, which is a distinct possibility.
[00:18:43]  I might have had a Pro Wrestling Illustrated folded up in my notebook and I was reading it while I acted like I was taking notes.
[00:18:49]  Dreaming of one day being the next Meltzer.
[00:18:52]  Or I was writing out the card that I was going to have of my wrestlers when I got home.
[00:18:59]  I could definitely see you being a fan fiction wrestling guy back in the day.
[00:19:02]  For sure.
[00:19:03]  Maybe even still today.
[00:19:04]  But now I love witches.
[00:19:08]  I love the dark arts.
[00:19:10]  I'm getting that tattooed on my hands.
[00:19:12]  Dark arts.
[00:19:12]  Perfect knuckle tattoo.
[00:19:13]  Shout out, Nick.
[00:19:15]  And I.
[00:19:17]  I also love, I hate to say I love, but I am fascinated by the idea of a society freaking out over something where it's like, come on, guys.
[00:19:26]  What's fascinating to me is the idea that, like, even within the context of it, the witch trials that went on, that people were like, well, some of this stuff is white magic.
[00:19:38]  Yeah.
[00:19:38]  That's cool.
[00:19:39]  Yeah.
[00:19:40]  So, like, everybody basically accepted that magic and the supernatural shit was real.
[00:19:45]  It was just like, these people are using the wrong part of it.
[00:19:48]  Yeah.
[00:19:48]  It's almost like the Force in some ways from Star Wars.
[00:19:52]  Yes.
[00:19:53]  There's some of that.
[00:19:54]  So let me give you a little bit of context for the situation.
[00:19:58]  From February 1692 to May 1693, if you think about that, that's over a year that this shit was going on.
[00:20:06]  That no one was like, guys, cool it.
[00:20:08]  What the fuck's going down there in Salem or Delaware?
[00:20:11]  It was in Salem Village, largely.
[00:20:14]  But it involved Andover and Ipswich and some of the neighboring communities.
[00:20:19]  And you're like, what y'all doing over there?
[00:20:21]  Killing witches?
[00:20:22]  We're in.
[00:20:22]  Guys, be cool.
[00:20:23]  Be cool.
[00:20:24]  Guys, cool.
[00:20:24]  Everything cool?
[00:20:25]  I've been wondering about that.
[00:20:26]  Stephanie over there.
[00:20:27]  So, a lot of it happened, and I say Salem Village because that's important.
[00:20:31]  It comes back.
[00:20:32]  Okay.
[00:20:32]  Because there was Salem Village and Salem Town.
[00:20:35]  There were two different entities at the time, but were very closely involved with each other.
[00:20:39]  Okay.
[00:20:40]  Salem Town was a more robust economy.
[00:20:43]  It was more of a mercantile town where there were industries, and it was modern for late 1600s time.
[00:20:50]  All right.
[00:20:50]  Whereas Salem Village was a far more agricultural rooted area.
[00:20:55]  So, what'd you think of that movie, The Village?
[00:20:58]  You know what?
[00:20:59]  I didn't hate it.
[00:21:00]  You know what?
[00:21:01]  That was not where I had a problem with Shyamalan.
[00:21:03]  I kind of was okay with it.
[00:21:04]  I didn't like the execution, but I loved the idea.
[00:21:07]  To me, it's like The Purge.
[00:21:08]  Great idea.
[00:21:08]  Yeah.
[00:21:09]  Not great execution.
[00:21:10]  You know, but with The Purge, it has my boy Ethan Hawk in it.
[00:21:13]  Hell yeah.
[00:21:13]  And as we all know, I love Ethan Hawk.
[00:21:15]  I love The Hawk.
[00:21:16]  I read The Hottest Summer, his book.
[00:21:17]  I have not.
[00:21:18]  I just thought his mustache was straight in boyhood.
[00:21:20]  Guess you don't love The Hawk as much as I do.
[00:21:22]  Good.
[00:21:22]  Did you like Boyhood?
[00:21:23]  Didn't see it.
[00:21:24]  Great.
[00:21:25]  Heard it was too long.
[00:21:27]  It was a little long.
[00:21:27]  Too boring and too self-congratulatory that they filmed it over 12 years.
[00:21:31]  That is super impressive, but yeah, the movie's not as good.
[00:21:33]  I love how they were going to call it 12 years all along, and then 12 years a slave came out right before, and they had to change the name.
[00:21:39]  Back to the witch.
[00:21:40]  Yes.
[00:21:41]  So, 14 women and 6 men were executed over the course of this year.
[00:21:47]  Were these men warlocks?
[00:21:49]  They were familiars and shit like that, or just.
[00:21:52]  A warlock is a male witch, right?
[00:21:54]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:54]  Some of them were actually accused of being male witches, and some of them were just like, hey, you're helping these witches.
[00:22:00]  That's about a lady, man.
[00:22:01]  What do you want me to do?
[00:22:02]  Mm hmm.
[00:22:02]  In addition to those 20 people who were executed, 19 by hanging, and then Giles Corey was killed by putting rocks on top of him so he suffocated.
[00:22:11]  Getting creative.
[00:22:12]  He's a badass.
[00:22:13]  Guys, can we do something a little different for this one?
[00:22:15]  Well, the reason that they did that to him was because he refused to enter a plea.
[00:22:18]  Okay.
[00:22:19]  Like everybody else either pled not guilty or some of them pled guilty and fucking started snitching.
[00:22:24]  But that, we'll get to that in a minute.
[00:22:25]  Okay.
[00:22:26]  But he refused to submit a plea and a lot of people believe that the reason he did that was if he said not guilty and was found guilty, he would have to, uh, give up rights to his estate.
[00:22:37]  So his inheritance wouldn't go to his son.
[00:22:39]  And so by not giving a plea, he protected his estate.
[00:22:44]  So in situations where they don't give a plea, you still got to torture a little bit in order to get them to plea.
[00:22:49]  So they put a board on top of him and just started pressing rocks on top, like kept giving rocks.
[00:22:54]  I'm like, do you want to give a plea now?
[00:22:55]  No.
[00:22:56]  And it took, I think it, I think it said it took two days of him just being pressed by boards.
[00:23:03]  And then he finally died.
[00:23:05]  So the other ones were hung.
[00:23:06]  And then, in addition to that, five people, including two children, died in prison.
[00:23:11]  Yeah, that I heard.
[00:23:12]  Because of the conditions and the incarcerations.
[00:23:15]  See, I was, and this, again, is my, I oftentimes can be misinformed when we're talking about these things.
[00:23:22]  Yes.
[00:23:22]  That is the theme of the podcast.
[00:23:23]  That is the theme of the podcast.
[00:23:24]  Me going, well, Dan, I heard this.
[00:23:25]  And you're like, that's not true.
[00:23:27]  Nope.
[00:23:27]  This should just be a nope sound effect.
[00:23:29]  Nope.
[00:23:29]  So, one of the things that I used to think about this trial was that, like, basically they'd be like, hey, we think you're a witch.
[00:23:39]  We're going to light you on fire.
[00:23:41]  And if you are a witch, you'll be able to survive it.
[00:23:44]  And if you're not, well, we were wrong.
[00:23:46]  Well, that was actually from the more English and European.
[00:23:51]  Oh, okay.
[00:23:52]  A lot of that had to do with, outside of the context of Salem, there's still some instances in New England of them being like, well, if you're a witch, you won't drown.
[00:24:04]  Yeah, the drowning was a big thing.
[00:24:05]  That sort of thing.
[00:24:06]  But that has to do more with the English variety.
[00:24:10]  To me, that is just such flawed logic.
[00:24:15]  But you have to assume that the people who are sending out these sentences know that.
[00:24:19]  I guess.
[00:24:19]  Because it's a thing where it's like, well, the problem solves itself.
[00:24:22]  Like, she's dead anyway.
[00:24:23]  We either were right or we were wrong, but she's gone anyway.
[00:24:25]  It's what I keep thinking about when I read a lot of these instances of the individual people who were accused.
[00:24:33]  So much of it makes me think of Socrates.
[00:24:35]  Because Socrates in ancient Greece.
[00:24:38]  Or Socrates in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.
[00:24:40]  Indeed.
[00:24:41]  He was killed by drinking hemlock.
[00:24:44]  He had a sentence that was passed on to him.
[00:24:46]  And the reason he was.
[00:24:49]  The reason that they gave for his execution was that he was corrupting the minds of the children of Athens because he didn't want to.
[00:24:58]  Say that there were tons of gods, he had a more monotheistic idea of things.
[00:25:01]  That is the story that we're told.
[00:25:03]  But if you actually look at the history, the truth is they killed him because he was being a dick.
[00:25:07]  Yeah.
[00:25:08]  People were just annoyed.
[00:25:09]  He was a schizophrenic who would run around town and, like, just say anything.
[00:25:13]  I like wrestling in real life.
[00:25:14]  But why do you like wrestling?
[00:25:16]  Oh, I don't know.
[00:25:17]  I mean, the sport, the theatrics, the drama.
[00:25:20]  What is it about theatrics that makes a man entertained?
[00:25:23]  I don't know.
[00:25:24]  It just does it for me.
[00:25:25]  So basically, as annoying as that is.
[00:25:27]  Yeah, I have a couple friends like that.
[00:25:28]  Yeah.
[00:25:29]  The Socratic method is just like constantly asking questions about the shit out of people.
[00:25:33]  The Socratic method is usually what people who don't like pro wrestling sound like to me.
[00:25:37]  Yes, basically.
[00:25:39]  You know it's fake, right?
[00:25:39]  I am Socrates.
[00:25:40]  But the reason that he comes to mind is that like they were like, all right, you're annoying the shit out of people.
[00:25:45]  So you will either kill you or you can leave town.
[00:25:49]  You can just sort of, we're going to give you a death sentence, but we're also going to let your friends come and smuggle you away if you want to go.
[00:25:55]  Yeah.
[00:25:55]  And like Critias comes and is like, hey, you can leave.
[00:25:58]  And he's like, nah, I'm going to take my sentence.
[00:26:00]  And he willingly drinks the hemlock.
[00:26:01]  But the reason it brings to mind is that like, Either way, it takes care of the problem.
[00:26:06]  Socrates is bumming people out, and we've got to get rid of them.

=== Socrates Drinking Hemlock (16:04) ===

[00:26:09]  So many of these people are just like, hey, you know, whether they're a witch or not, it'll solve our problem.
[00:26:16]  All right.
[00:26:17]  I want what I need you to do, and I'm sure you'll do it, is I need you to basically paint a picture of who these people were.
[00:26:21]  I'll do a little bit of that.
[00:26:22]  And why they started getting in trouble.
[00:26:23]  But before I do that, what I want to do is lay out a little bit of a context for the world that we're living in.
[00:26:30]  All right.
[00:26:31]  So we have the colonies, the Massachusetts Bay Colony, where all of these things take place.
[00:26:38]  And within that, you know, I don't know how far we have to go back, but the people who came over from England were looking for religious freedom and clerks.
[00:26:47]  Sure, sure.
[00:26:47]  But they weren't really.
[00:26:48]  No.
[00:26:49]  They were kind of assholes.
[00:26:50]  They kind of just wanted to do what they wanted to do.
[00:26:52]  They wanted to do their religion freely and also force it on a lot of people.
[00:26:56]  Yeah, and not let anyone else do any other religion but theirs.
[00:26:59]  So in the 1600s, people, their version of religion was very fucked up in terms of the devil was a real thing and he loved to talk to you.
[00:27:10]  And he wears Prada.
[00:27:11]  Yeah.
[00:27:12]  She.
[00:27:12]  She.
[00:27:13]  They had, like, these ideas about ghosts and.
[00:27:16]  And he goes down to Michigan.
[00:27:18]  Or Georgia.
[00:27:19]  Michigan was the hip hop version.
[00:27:20]  Did you ever hear the hip hop version of that?
[00:27:22]  The devil went down to Michigan.
[00:27:23]  Did he go up to Michigan?
[00:27:25]  The devil went up to Michigan.
[00:27:26]  Yeah, you're right.
[00:27:26]  I'm sorry.
[00:27:27]  Was he still looking for a soul to steal?
[00:27:28]  Yeah.
[00:27:29]  Is he still behind the fiddle?
[00:27:30]  And instead of the fiddle, it was two turntables.
[00:27:32]  Made of gold?
[00:27:34]  Made of steel.
[00:27:35]  Ah, the wheels of steel.
[00:27:37]  And it's like you scratch pretty good.
[00:27:39]  I want to say the KMC crew.
[00:27:41]  Mm hmm.
[00:27:42]  Can we play it at the end?
[00:27:43]  I'm going to look it up.
[00:27:44]  Yeah, it's so good.
[00:27:46]  Devil went up to Michigan and he was looking for a soul to steal.
[00:27:49]  KMC Krill.
[00:27:50]  That's crazy.
[00:27:50]  I love it.
[00:27:51]  KMC crew.
[00:27:52]  It's weirder to me, though, too, that more people haven't done their own versions of The Devil Went Down to Georgia.
[00:27:57]  Oh, I know.
[00:28:00]  Devil's in the House.
[00:28:01]  Oh, that was another thing.
[00:28:02]  I would go Devil's in the House.
[00:28:03]  It was so good.
[00:28:05]  Maybe we should play it right now because I don't think I can concentrate.
[00:28:08]  I can't either.
[00:28:08]  It's not on Spotify.
[00:28:09]  Devil's in the House.
[00:28:10]  Okay.
[00:28:12]  So, from 1692 to 1693 is when the proper Salem witch trials were going on and that hysteria.
[00:28:19]  However, 50 years before that or so, there was.
[00:28:24]  A bunch of other witchcraft related situations that were happening.
[00:28:29]  So, recognized generally as the first woman who was put to death for being a witch in the Massachusetts Bay Colony was a lady named Alice Young.
[00:28:40]  She was 47 years old.
[00:28:41]  This was in May of 1647 in Springfield.
[00:28:45]  She was hanged for being a witch, and historically, if you look at it, generally people see it as a thing where they were trying to protect an inheritance.
[00:28:55]  Because her late husband owned a very large estate and she had no son.
[00:28:59]  This would be a nice way to railroad people, too.
[00:29:02]  Like one of these, like, looky here, what do we got here?
[00:29:05]  A couple witches.
[00:29:07]  And so then, like, if she has no son, there's no one to inherit, it goes to the state, essentially, or goes back to the township or whatever.
[00:29:15]  And to further make that claim that it was some wackiness, her daughter, who theoretically could have inherited stuff if she'd gotten married, I'm not entirely sure how all those rules work.
[00:29:27]  She was promptly accused of being a witch, also.
[00:29:31]  Oh, matter of fact, yeah, it's like, we think you're a witch.
[00:29:33]  We're going to take your property.
[00:29:33]  She's like, well, I have a daughter.
[00:29:34]  She'll get it.
[00:29:35]  Oh, she's also a witch.
[00:29:36]  So, after that, in 1648, the period between 1648 and 1663, there's a proto witch hunt that goes on.
[00:29:44]  Okay.
[00:29:45]  And sort of the beginnings of this, this sort of thing, 80 people are accused of being a witch, 15 are killed, two of them are men who were killed.
[00:29:54]  And some of the stuff is hilarious.
[00:29:58]  Yeah, give me some reasons why.
[00:29:59]  What constitutes them being witches?
[00:30:02]  Also, do you ever think someone's like, ugh, I'm so glad we left Europe.
[00:30:04]  I can't stand that guy.
[00:30:06]  And then some guy's like, Bill, Judy, guess who moved to America?
[00:30:11]  He's a witch.
[00:30:11]  And they're like, god damn it.
[00:30:12]  Can we say he's a witch?
[00:30:14]  Uh, there was a guy named Witchfinder General Matthew Hopkins.
[00:30:17]  Okay.
[00:30:18]  Is that like, said to the entertainer, we're just like, good thing he's an entertainer, because that guy's name is Witchhunter.
[00:30:23]  Yeah.
[00:30:24]  He had given himself this title, I'm sure.
[00:30:26]  And he created a manual in order to help people find witches.
[00:30:31]  Of course.
[00:30:32]  I'm sure this is going to be real fact based.
[00:30:34]  Absolutely.
[00:30:35]  Absolutely.
[00:30:36]  His first technique that he used was a technique called watching.
[00:30:41]  Okay.
[00:30:42]  And what you'd do is you'd sit a witch down in daylight with people watching.
[00:30:47]  And if they are actually a witch, within 24 hours, an imp will appear.
[00:30:53]  What's an imp?
[00:30:54]  Well, like a familiar, like an imp would be like a little tiny person, basically.
[00:30:58]  Oh, hello, Nan.
[00:30:59]  There you go.
[00:31:00]  Yep, that's an imp.
[00:31:00]  It's me.
[00:31:02]  And they would show up within 24 hours because they depend on the witch for feeding.
[00:31:07]  So, if it's, if there's not a witch, there's no imp that needs to be fed.
[00:31:10]  But if there is literally no way that that was ever successful in finding a witch.
[00:31:18]  Yeah, it's like.
[00:31:19]  And Witchmaster, how many times have you come across that being the case?
[00:31:22]  So many.
[00:31:24]  Uh, lots.
[00:31:25]  Okay, so he's flying by the seat of his pants.
[00:31:27]  Yes.
[00:31:28]  With step number one.
[00:31:29]  This was used in relation to the case of Margaret Jones.
[00:31:33]  You know what I bet happened?
[00:31:35]  Her kid was like, Mom.
[00:31:36]  I'm starving.
[00:31:37]  I want breakfast.
[00:31:38]  Oh, it's an imp.
[00:31:38]  Let me suck that teeth.
[00:31:39]  It's an imp.
[00:31:40]  No, it's a kid.
[00:31:41]  No, it's an imp.
[00:31:42]  So, Margaret Jones was the next person who was killed in 19.
[00:31:50]  1640, whatever.
[00:31:54]  And she was found guilty, and these are the reasons that were given.
[00:31:58]  John Winthrop recorded the evidence that was against her.
[00:32:03]  One, she had a malignant touch.
[00:32:06]  So, people that she touched would end up getting sick.
[00:32:08]  That's a great Phil Collins song.
[00:32:11]  She seems to have a malignant touch.
[00:32:15]  So, people who came in contact with her got sick.
[00:32:18]  We could very easily argue that there's communicable diseases.
[00:32:23]  Absolutely.
[00:32:24]  She was always picking her nose, always had her hands in her mouth.
[00:32:26]  Yeah, people were dirty as shit back then.
[00:32:29]  She was a practicing psychic.
[00:32:31]  And she had medicines, like anise seeds and liquors, that had violent effects on people.
[00:32:38]  Okay, so she wasn't good at her job.
[00:32:39]  Yeah, I guess.
[00:32:40]  Hey, drink this poop water.
[00:32:42]  It'll make you feel better.
[00:32:43]  And they drink it and get sick.
[00:32:45]  Yeah, essentially like a holistic healer back then, but it was much.
[00:32:48]  You know, much worse discipline.
[00:32:51]  She could tell the future.
[00:32:53]  Which I don't believe is the truth.
[00:32:56]  Something she said came to pass that she should have no knowledge of.
[00:33:02]  I don't know.
[00:33:03]  She had upon search an apparent teat as fresh as had been newly sucked.
[00:33:09]  And after it had been scanned upon a forced search, it was withered.
[00:33:12]  And a new teat began on the opposite side of her.
[00:33:16]  I don't know.
[00:33:17]  What the fuck?
[00:33:17]  She had titties.
[00:33:18]  She had weird titties.
[00:33:19]  I don't know.
[00:33:20]  Okay.
[00:33:21]  Okay.
[00:33:22]  So then the watching part comes into play in the prison, in clear daylight.
[00:33:27]  There was seen in her arms, she sitting on the floor and her clothes up, a little child which ran from her into another room and the officer following it.
[00:33:36]  It was vanished.
[00:33:37]  The like child was seen two other places to which she had relation, and one maid that saw it fell sick upon it and was cured by the said Margaret, who used means to be employed to that end.
[00:33:49]  Her behaviour at the trial was very intemperamental, lying notoriously and railing upon the jury and witnesses, And in the like distemper, she died.
[00:33:58]  So basically, the evidence that they used was that there was a child that disappeared.
[00:34:02]  Yeah.
[00:34:02]  And some lady got sick and then was cured by Margaret.
[00:34:05]  Yeah.
[00:34:06]  And she was mean in court.
[00:34:08]  Yeah.
[00:34:09]  And the Socrates thing kind of reminds me of some of these people.
[00:34:11]  I mean, how many of this was just some good old fashioned mental illness?
[00:34:15]  Tons.
[00:34:15]  That they couldn't explain.
[00:34:17]  Maybe a lot of it.
[00:34:17]  And they were just like, you're a witch.
[00:34:19]  Yeah.
[00:34:20]  Yeah.
[00:34:21]  There's a lot of stuff like this.
[00:34:22]  So.
[00:34:23]  I have a feeling we're going to crack this case, Dan.
[00:34:25]  We are.
[00:34:26]  I think I've gotten to the bottom of a lot of this.
[00:34:28]  Dan has documents.
[00:34:29]  So, before we get to the actual Salem stuff, there's a couple of other case studies that are indicative to me that we are not dealing with witchcraft pretty much ever.
[00:34:40]  That first case, we have basically an inheritance scheme.
[00:34:44]  Yeah.
[00:34:45]  Protecting an inheritance.
[00:34:46]  Cash grab.
[00:34:48]  In 1656, there's a lady named Ann Hibbins.
[00:34:52]  She was killed in 1656.
[00:34:53]  In 1640, she sued some carpenters who had overcharged her.
[00:34:58]  She was getting some carpentry work done, these dudes overcharged her.
[00:35:00]  They thought that the way that she treated them was very rude in court.
[00:35:04]  Oh, yeah.
[00:35:05]  And the way that she was acting was inappropriate, unbecoming of a lady, that sort of thing.
[00:35:09]  So they called the church to investigate it.
[00:35:11]  Oh, man.
[00:35:12]  Basically.
[00:35:13]  Ann refused to apologize for the way that she treated these carpenters who had committed a crime against her.
[00:35:18]  And I'm Adam Crowley here.
[00:35:20]  Oh, boy.
[00:35:21]  I know all about bad carpenters, Dan.
[00:35:24]  Oh, if to catch a carpenter existed back then.
[00:35:26]  Oh, my God.
[00:35:27]  Yeah, you got it.
[00:35:29]  This girl, you know, she just had some bad carpentry.
[00:35:32]  And I stand by her.
[00:35:34]  Also, Adam Crowley would probably, back then, have thought she was a witch.
[00:35:38]  Drew, she's a witch.
[00:35:40]  So, because she wouldn't apologize, she was excommunicated from the church.
[00:35:45]  The church is like, nah, no good.
[00:35:46]  The church accuses her of usurping her husband's authority because of her behavior and because of suing these contractors.
[00:35:53]  Once her husband is dead, she's tried for being a witch.
[00:35:56]  So, basically, she was tried for wearing the pants in the family.
[00:35:59]  Basically, yeah.
[00:36:01]  She was not conforming to social roles, becoming a woman.
[00:36:04]  Honey, I'm telling you.
[00:36:05]  What was weird about her is that she was more socially connected than most.
[00:36:10]  Of the other people who had ever been accused of these sorts of things.
[00:36:12]  So I feel like it's real easy to railroad like a loner or just a woman who's kind of just trying to make her way in the world.
[00:36:21]  Yes.
[00:36:22]  Whereas she wasn't, in the chronology of things, she wasn't the third in this proto witch hunt.
[00:36:29]  She was a little bit later.
[00:36:31]  So other homeless people and stuff have been jammed up.
[00:36:33]  And I bet she's like, you're not going to fucking railroad me like these fucking other people.
[00:36:37]  I bet she was tough.
[00:36:38]  Probably.
[00:36:39]  I like to think she was.
[00:36:40]  So now, what.
[00:36:42]  I can tell you about her is that her second husband, who was deceased, was a man named William Hibbins.
[00:36:48]  He had a first wife before her named Hester Bellingham.
[00:36:52]  Great name.
[00:36:53]  It's great.
[00:36:54]  A lot of these names are fucking awesome.
[00:36:55]  I know.
[00:36:56]  There's a guy named Dorcas who comes up.
[00:36:58]  That's the shit.
[00:36:59]  That's my nickname for Dan Dries.
[00:37:02]  So, Hester Bellingham was her deceased husband's first wife.
[00:37:07]  Hester's brother, Richard Bellingham, was the assistant governor of Massachusetts.
[00:37:12]  And he was instrumental in Anne Hibbins' conviction of being a witch.
[00:37:17]  So it's like, well, okay, your sister passed away, and her husband married another lady who acts kind of like a couse in public.
[00:37:27]  And he's got their.
[00:37:28]  That's my family's property.
[00:37:29]  And the inheritance, yeah.
[00:37:30]  It would go to his nephew, essentially, otherwise.
[00:37:33]  Sure.
[00:37:34]  And so, I mean, a lot of that does seem to be a theme that is developing a little bit.
[00:37:38]  Sure.
[00:37:40]  So the other one that goes into the crazy part that you were talking about was a lady named Mary Johnson of Hartford in 1648.
[00:37:47]  She was accused of theft and whipped.
[00:37:50]  And they were like, hey, we got to whip her some more.
[00:37:51]  Let's do that a little more.
[00:37:52]  Yeah, they're probably in them.
[00:37:53]  So they beat the shit out of her.
[00:37:54]  I like when her dress falls off her shoulders when we whip her.
[00:37:57]  Yeah, but that's not the devil in me.
[00:37:59]  That's just, that's righteous.
[00:38:01]  Yeah.
[00:38:01]  So they whip her a bunch.
[00:38:02]  I don't know why I gave that guy a southern accent, by the way.
[00:38:05]  Everybody seems like bumpkins in these stories.
[00:38:07]  Okay.
[00:38:07]  But yeah, they are, they probably have way more like.
[00:38:09]  She's also, like, you know, like Australia always gets a bad rap for being like, it was a prison, like, uh, colonist.
[00:38:16]  I keep wanting to say prison planet.
[00:38:18]  That's a different shit.
[00:38:19]  But I, but it basically was, and there's just like the, the worst of the worst from England went over there.
[00:38:23]  And they're like, that's why they're all fucked up or whatever.
[00:38:26]  Yeah.
[00:38:26]  But I like to think that maybe a lot of the people who left for here are just like the biggest weirdos.
[00:38:32]  Probably, but they're, instead of being criminals, they were all like super weirdly religious.
[00:38:36]  Yeah.
[00:38:36]  Like that, like this really weird brand of religion that's weirder than Catholicism.
[00:38:40]  Can I ask you a question?
[00:38:42]  If these guys all were so religious and weird, why did they do the whole separation of church and state?
[00:38:47]  I think that came later.
[00:38:49]  Okay.
[00:38:49]  That was a good 80 years after all this is going on.
[00:38:52]  Oh, because maybe they were like, yo, guys.
[00:38:54]  And what we'll find is when this dies down in 1693, pretty quickly after that, it becomes embarrassing.
[00:39:03]  Yeah.
[00:39:03]  Because I hope they have egg on their face when this is all said and done.
[00:39:06]  What you have to realize is the distinction between Salem Village and Salem Town is super important because all this is going on in Salem Village and a lot of the other, like, more intellectual centers in, like, Philadelphia and Boston aren't really aware of what's going on for a bit.
[00:39:21]  Oh, I love it.
[00:39:22]  Like, one of the things that blew my mind is that the Salem Charter was, it took eight years for its renewal to get from England to America.
[00:39:34]  Okay.
[00:39:34]  So for eight years, there wasn't a constitutionally bound authority.
[00:39:39]  Okay.
[00:39:40]  The charter ended in X year and then X plus eight.
[00:39:43]  They're like, oh, we got this new piece of paper.
[00:39:44]  All right.
[00:39:45]  In the meantime, they had like governing bodies, but everybody questioned their authenticity.
[00:39:49]  So they're like Lord of the Flies.
[00:39:51]  A little bit.
[00:39:52]  It's a little more structured, but yeah, it took eight years for that information to get from the authority to the colony.
[00:39:58]  So like, you gotta think, it could take months to get from like news to Philadelphia that, hey, all these weirdos are doing some crazy shit.
[00:40:05]  Yeah.
[00:40:05]  They're killing people with, I just imagine some guy has got his feathered pen and he's writing something.
[00:40:10]  They're like, ugh, you're not going to believe what they're doing over in Salem.
[00:40:13]  And he's like, what the fuck now?
[00:40:15]  Yeah.
[00:40:15]  These bumpkins.
[00:40:16]  They're blaming women for being witches.
[00:40:18]  And he's just like, god damn it.
[00:40:20]  But to the point of insanity with Mary Johnson, she, through the whippings and stuff, ended up admitting that she was into the devil and that she had killed a child.
[00:40:29]  Yeah.
[00:40:30]  And so she admitted these things.
[00:40:31]  But as we know from torture and living in Chicago, you can kind of beat the confession out of people very easily.
[00:40:37]  There's no evidence that she ever killed a child.
[00:40:41]  And she ends up getting put in prison.
[00:40:43]  And while she's in prison, she gets pregnant, most likely by Nathaniel Rusko, who's the guy who runs the jail's son.
[00:40:51]  So you get a sort of image of like, they're not really taking a lot of this very seriously.
[00:40:56]  There's really massive abuses of power going on.
[00:40:59]  Also, it's like, hey, my dad ain't at the jail.
[00:41:01]  Y'all want to go fuck some lady prisoners?
[00:41:04]  Hey, y'all.
[00:41:05]  So this is the sort of witch hunt stuff that had been going on before.
[00:41:09]  Yeah.
[00:41:09]  So there is a context wherein they believe in the devil, but at the same time, It's very rarely like, hey, this evil person needs to be punished.
[00:41:18]  There's an agenda at foot.
[00:41:20]  Oh, for sure.
[00:41:21]  I feel like for anything, we can do a little investigative work.
[00:41:24]  If we were their defense attorneys, if we were their Johnny Cochran's, we could just be like, now, let me ask you a question.
[00:41:31]  You know what I mean?
[00:41:32]  And it's like you did all their shenanigans.
[00:41:33]  If the broom does not fit, I think we got a bunch of Mark Furmans on the case.
[00:41:38]  Yes.
[00:41:39]  We were a country of fucking Mark Furmans.
[00:41:41]  Ulterior motives, if you will.
[00:41:43]  So around the time, there were writers like, Cotton Mather and Joseph Granville, who are religious thinkers and writers.
[00:41:50]  Bloggers.
[00:41:51]  And they are the types of dudes who believe in this, like, watching kind of test.
[00:41:56]  And these are the things that they believe that they can prove the existence of the supernatural.
[00:42:00]  Okay, so they're your Glenn Beck's, your Rush Limbaugh's?
[00:42:02]  100%.
[00:42:03]  Yes.
[00:42:04]  Yes.
[00:42:04]  More Glenn Beck, probably.
[00:42:05]  Alex Jones's.
[00:42:07]  Less Alex Jones, because he is very religious now, but Glenn Beck still feels more right.
[00:42:12]  Yeah, he cries.

=== Accused Women and Motives (14:39) ===

[00:42:13]  He cries.
[00:42:14]  Well, so does Alex, though.
[00:42:15]  They're both crying a ton.
[00:42:16]  Yeah, they're trying to cry each other.
[00:42:17]  They're having a cry off over there.
[00:42:19]  So.
[00:42:20]  This brings us to the proper beginning in 14, or 14, 1692 in February, where the Salem witch trial proper kicks off.
[00:42:28]  Okay.
[00:42:29]  What do you know about the trials, Marty?
[00:42:32]  I just feel like these women were railroaded and there was no right answer, and it was either like, admit you're a witch, okay, you're a witch, deny you're a witch, we still think you're a witch.
[00:42:40]  What do you know about how it started, though?
[00:42:43]  Uh, I don't know.
[00:42:46]  A scarlet letter?
[00:42:48]  Actually, that Ann Hibbins lady that we talked about earlier was one of the inspirations for, uh, Some of the characters in Nathaniel Hawthorne's Scarlet Letter.
[00:42:58]  All right.
[00:42:58]  So, I hate this.
[00:43:01]  This is so much information.
[00:43:03]  Marty, I'm sorry.
[00:43:04]  It's okay.
[00:43:05]  So, around the time, right before 1692, there was a guy named Reverend Samuel Paris who was brought to town because the town needs an ordained minister.
[00:43:14]  At that point, they just had amateur ministers and stuff like that.
[00:43:17]  We know how that goes.
[00:43:18]  And that's how the town kind of liked it.
[00:43:20]  Oh, okay.
[00:43:20]  So, it was a little bit controversial that they're bringing in this Reverend.
[00:43:23]  They had like a strong open mic scene, but they didn't want a comedy club coming to town to fuck things up.
[00:43:27]  That might be perfect.
[00:43:28]  That might be a perfect way to think about it.
[00:43:30]  It's going to get all political and it's just better this way.
[00:43:33]  Yeah, I mean, I know that we have no chance of growth without that.
[00:43:36]  Yeah.
[00:43:37]  But we're in charge.
[00:43:38]  We call the shots.
[00:43:39]  Yeah, we're having a better time.
[00:43:40]  I think history would dictate that the comedy club coming to town was a bad idea, metaphorically speaking, in Salem.
[00:43:47]  Okay.
[00:43:47]  So Samuel Parris comes to town, and he comes to town in the middle of what you could almost look at as a Hatfields and McCoys type battle between two families in Salem the Putnams and the Porters.
[00:44:01]  Oh, I remember these names.
[00:44:03]  Okay.
[00:44:03]  From some.
[00:44:04]  Okay.
[00:44:04]  Okay.
[00:44:05]  Maybe.
[00:44:05]  Well, you know the Hatfields and the McCoys.
[00:44:07]  Never heard of them.
[00:44:07]  Who are they?
[00:44:08]  Come on.
[00:44:10]  Come on.
[00:44:10]  I've heard Jim Ross do commentary before.
[00:44:14]  He comes to town and he's like getting the lay of the land and what's going on.
[00:44:18]  And he's kind of of of the opinion, if you look at the record, that no matter what.
[00:44:25]  Even before the trials kicked off, he was quoted as saying that something bad's going to happen.
[00:44:30]  Yeah.
[00:44:31]  It's almost unavoidable with the amount of people hating each other in this town.
[00:44:34]  And he shows up and he's like, oh, fuck.
[00:44:37]  Yeah.
[00:44:37]  This place.
[00:44:38]  And so he did his best, sort of.
[00:44:41]  I think, I don't know, it's hard to judge a person in hindsight, but it seems like he probably tried to avoid the town splitting, but he was very unsuccessful.
[00:44:51]  Yeah.
[00:44:51]  So his daughter, Betty, and his niece, Abigail Williams, in February of 62, start to act really weird.
[00:45:00]  They start to have seizures.
[00:45:02]  They start to have Tourette's kind of symptoms.
[00:45:05]  Oh, that's bad news back then.
[00:45:06]  Start yelling, uh, uh, Inappropriate times interrupting church sermons and stuff like that.
[00:45:11]  Bull job, bull job.
[00:45:12]  Yeah.
[00:45:13]  Oh, shit.
[00:45:14]  Uh, and started like flailing their arms and like all sorts of things that people looked on and they were like, ooh, fucked up.
[00:45:20]  That's bad news.
[00:45:21]  And he's probably like, that's not good for business.
[00:45:23]  That's especially when you're the new minister that's come to town and one of them's your daughter.
[00:45:28]  So the two of them start acting all fucked up.
[00:45:30]  Then, pretty quickly, a bunch of kids in town start acting really fucked up in similar ways.
[00:45:36]  Which, as we know from being kids and knowing kids, A lot of that could just be copycatting.
[00:45:42]  Of course.
[00:45:43]  If you see someone yell blowjob in church, you're going to yell blowjob in church.
[00:45:47]  Or at the very least, I'm going to be thinking, I want to yell blowjob so bad.
[00:45:50]  Yeah.
[00:45:50]  It's so fun.
[00:45:51]  You've seen the path.
[00:45:52]  Maybe a sneeze.
[00:45:53]  Blowjob.
[00:45:54]  Like that.
[00:45:54]  You realize that, like, oh, if I act fucked up, I can get away with doing the things that they're getting away with.
[00:45:59]  Yeah.
[00:45:59]  Or there's just that power of suggestion.
[00:46:02]  Mm hmm.
[00:46:02]  Mm hmm.
[00:46:04]  So at this point, people start being like, well, we've got to figure out what's going on.
[00:46:09]  And John Putnam.
[00:46:13]  Is very mad.
[00:46:14]  He believes that there's a conspiracy involving the devil, especially because he is also a preacher and the idea of sermons getting interrupted is very.
[00:46:23]  That's like me with a mad heckler.
[00:46:25]  You've seen Steve Hofstetter on YouTube dealing with hecklers.
[00:46:29]  I try to avoid it.
[00:46:30]  I try to avoid it.
[00:46:30]  He deals with hecklers.
[00:46:32]  John Putnam does not deal with hecklers.
[00:46:34]  I went to YouTube, John Putnam crushes a girl yelling out shit in church.
[00:46:40]  And you just get a video about the witch trust.
[00:46:41]  Oh, man.
[00:46:42]  So, people start to get the idea that, like, we've got to figure out what's at the bottom of this.
[00:46:47]  Yeah.
[00:46:47]  And Betty and Abigail start fingering some people.
[00:46:51]  Not in the fun way.
[00:46:52]  Wow.
[00:46:53]  But also, they're 9 and 12, so get that out of your head.
[00:46:55]  Yeah, because it's always trust kids, too.
[00:46:57]  12 is a marryable age, too, back then, so.
[00:46:59]  Oh, fuck you guys.
[00:47:00]  It's weird.
[00:47:01]  So, the three of them, or the two of them, accuse three women of witchcraft.
[00:47:07]  Okay.
[00:47:07]  Basically.
[00:47:08]  The three women who are first accused, one of them is named Sarah Good.
[00:47:12]  She is a homeless beggar.
[00:47:14]  And she's largely accused and convicted because she was seen as rejecting Puritan ideas of self control and was deemed a villain because she didn't help lead kids on a path to salvation.
[00:47:27]  Which again goes back to the Socratesian thing.
[00:47:30]  Yeah.
[00:47:30]  So she wasn't fun to kids, she was nice to kids.
[00:47:32]  Kids are probably like, why is this lady?
[00:47:34]  She's like, fuck you.
[00:47:35]  I don't feel like there's any indication from anything I read that she was mean to kids.
[00:47:38]  Okay.
[00:47:39]  She was just homeless and a beggar and didn't help kids.
[00:47:42]  Okay.
[00:47:44]  There's no corrupting influence, like, hey, come to the devil.
[00:47:47]  Yeah.
[00:47:47]  That's all hearsay and bullshit.
[00:47:50]  Or I feel like she might have done this.
[00:47:51]  Kids were being shitty and she laughed.
[00:47:53]  She was like, those kids are fun.
[00:47:55]  Yeah.
[00:47:55]  Hey, you're not leading those kids to a righteous path.
[00:47:58]  Right.
[00:47:58]  And meanwhile, as we know, she might have been the coolest person in that fucking town.
[00:48:02]  I'm starting to think whoever was murdered was the coolest people in the town.
[00:48:05]  Giles Corey seems like a fucking.
[00:48:07]  Like a hero.
[00:48:08]  So, second was Sarah Osborne.
[00:48:11]  Bad time to be named Sarah.
[00:48:12]  Yeah.
[00:48:13]  A lot of Sarahs go down in this.
[00:48:15]  She didn't go to church much.
[00:48:18]  Uh oh.
[00:48:18]  And that's a no no.
[00:48:19]  That's a real no no.
[00:48:20]  She didn't sleep in on a Sunday.
[00:48:21]  Yeah.
[00:48:22]  But what was worse socially was that she had married a former indentured servant.
[00:48:27]  Oh, shit.
[00:48:28]  Sarah.
[00:48:29]  Her husband had died, but they had a son, but marrying the indentured servant jeopardized the inheritance again.
[00:48:35]  And people really don't like that.
[00:48:38]  I think people too had a real boner for acquiring property and money back then.
[00:48:42]  But back then it was so possible.
[00:48:43]  Now there's no land grabs you can really do.
[00:48:45]  No.
[00:48:46]  But also, to make.
[00:48:47]  I share the government eminent domain.
[00:48:49]  To make matters worse, the son who could theoretically get cut out of the inheritance by this marriage was the nephew of John Putnam Sr.
[00:49:00]  One of the members of the family, the Putnams and the Porters, who are basically the Hadfields and McCoys.
[00:49:05]  Okay.
[00:49:06]  Okay.
[00:49:06]  And then the third woman who was accused was Tichuba.
[00:49:10]  Our old friend, Tichaba.
[00:49:11]  That's already bad for business if your name's Tichaba.
[00:49:14]  She was a black or Indian slave, depending on how.
[00:49:17]  She didn't stand a chance.
[00:49:18]  Depending on the record.
[00:49:19]  Okay.
[00:49:19]  Some people have associated her more with African roots, some the Indies.
[00:49:24]  Okay.
[00:49:25]  Who knows?
[00:49:26]  But she would tell Abigail and Betty these fascinating stories that bordered on voodoo.
[00:49:31]  Yeah.
[00:49:32]  And was convicted of inflaming their imaginations.
[00:49:37]  Okay, so she's guilty of telling cool stories.
[00:49:39]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:49:39]  They probably have a little drink or smoke, and she's like, want to hear a cool story from my hometown?
[00:49:43]  Yeah.
[00:49:43]  Like, all three of these women so far are, to me, awesome.
[00:49:47]  Yeah.
[00:49:47]  You've got the homeless beggar who was probably pretty cool.
[00:49:50]  He had kids.
[00:49:50]  He was probably pretty cool.
[00:49:51]  He was just like, I'm not having kids.
[00:49:52]  You've got Sarah Osborne who saw through social conventions and married an indentured servant.
[00:49:57]  Yeah.
[00:49:57]  Which is awesome.
[00:49:58]  It's like, you should fuck this dude.
[00:49:59]  You'd lose your mind.
[00:50:00]  He's amazing.
[00:50:01]  Yeah.
[00:50:01]  So she, she.
[00:50:02]  Oh, you usually do about four positions when you fuck?
[00:50:04]  This guy?
[00:50:05]  Minimum eight.
[00:50:06]  Minimum.
[00:50:07]  He's doing shit.
[00:50:07]  I have no idea that we're even a thing right now.
[00:50:09]  So then we got Tichaba who, like, is just awesome.
[00:50:12]  Tichaba.
[00:50:13]  Telling these cool stories.
[00:50:15]  Oh, man.
[00:50:15]  I could just imagine just like having like a one of those old cups that they used to drink out of, you know what I mean?
[00:50:22]  A chalice?
[00:50:23]  Yeah, and then she's just like, drink this.
[00:50:25]  You want to hear a cool story.
[00:50:27]  So, one of the other reasons that I think I might just tip my hand early.
[00:50:32]  Okay.
[00:50:32]  In terms of my theory.
[00:50:33]  All right.
[00:50:34]  One of the other accusers besides Betty and Abigail Williams was Ann Putnam Jr.
[00:50:39]  Okay.
[00:50:40]  So, she was a member of the Putnam family and early on was fingering these people that.
[00:50:46]  Some of them.
[00:50:47]  Also, I'm an adult.
[00:50:48]  You can say that.
[00:50:49]  You said fingering these people, and you kind of looked at me like, You're going to be cool with your wink?
[00:50:52]  I'm fine.
[00:50:52]  I know I'm an adult.
[00:50:53]  You've dealt with cops.
[00:50:56]  You've been on a lineup.
[00:50:57]  I've been fingered.
[00:50:58]  I've been fingered for a crime.
[00:51:00]  You and Freddie.
[00:51:01]  So the people who are getting fingered are very.
[00:51:06]  A lot of them seem to have weird ties to the Putnam family.
[00:51:10]  Okay.
[00:51:10]  Like the people who are being accused.
[00:51:12]  Like Sarah Osborne had been sued by John Putnam Sr. in the past over a land dispute.
[00:51:19]  Of course.
[00:51:20]  A number of other people who will come up had been sued in the past or had had beefs with the Putnam family or had ties to the Porter family.
[00:51:29]  All I want to do.
[00:51:30]  So, there's a lot of that that comes up, and it's very suspicious that Betty and Abigail Williams lived in the same house, and then the third person who's making accusations is a member of the Putnam family, a 12 year old child in the Putnam family.
[00:51:45]  All I want to do is go back in time and be a high profile lawyer and defend all these people.
[00:51:50]  Now I'm just a Salem Village lawyer.
[00:51:52]  Now I might just be a comedian from the future.
[00:51:56]  I don't know about your small town agricultural justice, but I feel like there's a money trail.
[00:52:01]  You would be a witch, though.
[00:52:03]  Follow the money.
[00:52:04]  Also, what I would do?
[00:52:05]  You would be, you would die.
[00:52:06]  You'd be killed.
[00:52:07]  I would have flash paper like Jerry the King Lawler throws in his opponent's eyes back in the day.
[00:52:10]  I do like that.
[00:52:11]  I would have like fire come out of my hands and be like, come at me, bro.
[00:52:13]  And some of that like Tajiri style.
[00:52:16]  Oh, yeah.
[00:52:16]  Mist?
[00:52:17]  Yeah, some Asian mist.
[00:52:18]  Come at me, bro.
[00:52:20]  That's a real hillbilly CT impression you just did.
[00:52:23]  Come at me, bro.
[00:52:24]  All I do is win my court cases.
[00:52:27]  So these three get accused and then shit gets out of hand.
[00:52:32]  Okay.
[00:52:33]  Like the three of them kind of getting accused were like, well, all right.
[00:52:36]  Is there any public outcry of like, this is fucked?
[00:52:38]  Well, we'll get to that.
[00:52:41]  The next person who's accused is Martha Corey.
[00:52:44]  And she's accused because she publicly expressed skepticism about the girl's accusations.
[00:52:49]  Okay.
[00:52:49]  Well, this is going to happen when Trump's president.
[00:52:51]  Yeah, you don't believe what's going on, this bullshit?
[00:52:53]  Anyone else think this is fucked?
[00:52:55]  Witch!
[00:52:56]  Yeah, you're going down.
[00:52:58]  So, her and Rebecca Nurse are both upstanding citizens who then become accused of being witches.
[00:53:05]  Okay.
[00:53:05]  They both go to church all the time, they aren't homeless.
[00:53:09]  And it starts to fuel this idea that it can be anybody.
[00:53:12]  Anybody can be a witch.
[00:53:13]  Not just these poor shit people.
[00:53:15]  Yeah.
[00:53:15]  Anybody can be it.
[00:53:16]  So we all have to accuse each other.
[00:53:18]  Yeah.
[00:53:18]  And shit's like, well, how do I know you're not a witch?
[00:53:21]  Also, I'd like to think that there was a Joe Fernandez type character during this time making lots of off-color witch jokes.
[00:53:28]  That guy would be killed so fast.
[00:53:29]  Which one of you ladies wants to go out?
[00:53:31]  Wink.
[00:53:32]  Like that.
[00:53:32]  He does a lot of witch puns.
[00:53:34]  So the next person who's, this is where, like, in the researching, this is where my mind broke.
[00:53:39]  In terms of any idea that these people could have been doing the right thing.
[00:53:43]  Okay.
[00:53:43]  The next person who's accused of being a witch is Dorothy Good.
[00:53:46]  Okay.
[00:53:46]  Who is the daughter of Sarah Good, the homeless beggar lady.
[00:53:49]  Yeah.
[00:53:49]  She's four years old.
[00:53:51]  Okay.
[00:53:52]  Now she's not convicted of being a witch.
[00:53:54]  I didn't know Sarah Good had a kid.
[00:53:55]  Yeah, pretty crazy, huh?
[00:53:57]  So she maybe wasn't a great mom, and that was her whole thing too, about not leading kids to.
[00:54:00]  But then also it might be a thing where, I don't know a whole lot about her history, but she might have befallen some tragedy and was recently homeless.
[00:54:07]  Okay.
[00:54:07]  Like lost her land or something.
[00:54:09]  Sure, sure, sure.
[00:54:10]  Maybe the Putnams took her land.
[00:54:11]  I have no idea.
[00:54:12]  Probably.
[00:54:13]  So she wasn't convicted, but she was interrogated.
[00:54:17]  And the answers.
[00:54:18]  As four?
[00:54:18]  As a four year old?
[00:54:19]  Yes.
[00:54:19]  Oh, okay, that makes sense.
[00:54:20]  And the answers that a four year old child gave these judges was used to implicate her mother.
[00:54:26]  Holy fuck.
[00:54:27]  Which is nuts.
[00:54:28]  This is where I walk in and I'm like, young lady, you don't have to answer any more questions.
[00:54:31]  This is where there's a music swell as you enter.
[00:54:34]  You're interrogating a four year old.
[00:54:36]  You should all be ashamed of yourself.
[00:54:38]  I'm picturing you as Matlock now.
[00:54:39]  Now I am.
[00:54:40]  I have a white suit.
[00:54:41]  I have a white suit.
[00:54:43]  I just throw my briefcase on the table.
[00:54:45]  It's an old table, so it just breaks.
[00:54:47]  You have a black friend who knows karate?
[00:54:49]  Yes, I do.
[00:54:50]  We are leaving.
[00:54:52]  Pack up your things, girl.
[00:54:53]  So after this point.
[00:54:54]  What kind of answers did she give them?
[00:54:55]  Do they say?
[00:54:56]  No, there's no specifics, but her testimony was used against her mom, which is fucked up because a four year old has no idea what she's saying.
[00:55:03]  So through her.
[00:55:04]  We are, white people, we are really killing it right now.
[00:55:07]  You have to understand how bad.
[00:55:09]  We're just so fucking terrible right now.
[00:55:10]  So Rebecca Nurse, who was one of those people who was accused and convicted and ended up being killed.
[00:55:15]  Yeah.
[00:55:16]  Was also another person who was involved in a land deal that went bad with the Putnams and was sued.
[00:55:22]  Throughout March and April, shit gets real out of control.
[00:55:26]  Sarah Cloyce, another Sarah, who also happens to be Rebecca's sister, is accused.
[00:55:32]  Also, Elizabeth Proctor gets arrested.
[00:55:34]  Elizabeth Proctor's husband is like, hey, you guys got to cut this out.
[00:55:37]  He gets arrested.
[00:55:38]  You're a witch too.
[00:55:40]  Martha Corey's husband, Giles, the guy who got pressed to death eventually, gets arrested.
[00:55:45]  Abigail Hobbs, her stepmom, Deliverance, and Mary Warren, who was Elizabeth Proctor's servant.
[00:55:52]  And someone who made accusations of witchcraft at other people in the past, all three of them are accused and arrested of being witches, and the three of them flip.
[00:56:01]  They confess to being witches and start pointing fingers at everybody.
[00:56:05]  Like a bunch of other people.
[00:56:06]  Like an immunity deal?
[00:56:07]  Not necessarily, but they do just start pointing fingers strategically at a lot of people.
[00:56:13]  Well, if I'm going down, you're going down too.
[00:56:15]  Yeah.
[00:56:17]  They point out the Wilds family, who also had land deals, that sort of thing.
[00:56:24]  And William Hobbs, whose deliverance, Hobbs's husband, who is another lady who was accused of being a witch.
[00:56:34]  Mary Eastley, who is Sarah Cloyce and Rebecca Nurse's other sister.
[00:56:38]  So you're just sort of like seeing.
[00:56:40]  It is.
[00:56:40]  So Hatfield and McCoy.
[00:56:42]  You're basically.
[00:56:42]  There's a lot of people who get mixed up in it, too, it seems.
[00:56:45]  But a lot of it is just you like, hey, let's get all these people who are against our side into prison.
[00:56:50]  How does the Bush family prosper from this, Dan?

=== Witch Cake and Rye (10:29) ===

[00:56:52]  Well.
[00:56:53]  Interestingly enough.
[00:56:54]  Oh, you fucking kidding?
[00:56:55]  Prescott Bush.
[00:56:56]  No!
[00:56:57]  He was around back then.
[00:56:58]  His great great grandfather.
[00:57:00]  He funded Putnam.
[00:57:03]  No, not really.
[00:57:04]  I was like, wait, that can't be possible.
[00:57:05]  There was a look of belief on your face that somehow the Bush family prospered from this.
[00:57:09]  There's no doubt.
[00:57:12]  So, at this point, the accusations become too numerous to list, and things just spiral out of control.
[00:57:19]  I mean, I imagine it's like.
[00:57:25]  I mean, it's just got to be nonstop people accusing everybody of everything.
[00:57:29]  I'd like to think there were some sane people who were just like, I'm just staying out of this.
[00:57:33]  I think most of the sane people left.
[00:57:35]  Oh, good.
[00:57:35]  A lot of them went to Maine.
[00:57:37]  I'm going to go to Maine, man.
[00:57:38]  I heard it's fucking cool there.
[00:57:39]  I think, well, there is a guy who.
[00:57:41]  I heard they have a good brunch scene in Maine.
[00:57:43]  There's a guy named Reverend Burroughs who did not.
[00:57:46]  Oh.
[00:57:47]  You think Nate's related?
[00:57:48]  It's spelled differently.
[00:57:49]  Fuck.
[00:57:50]  And Nate's Jewish.
[00:57:51]  Fuck.
[00:57:51]  Oh, fuck.
[00:57:53]  See, he was involved.
[00:57:54]  Good luck being Jewish around these people, too.
[00:57:56]  Jesus, fuck.
[00:57:56]  You'd be dead.
[00:57:57]  Here's what you do.
[00:57:58]  You're deader than Titchabo.
[00:57:59]  Here's what you do.
[00:58:00]  If you think they're Jewish, you have them sit for 24 hours, their horns will appear.
[00:58:05]  You dangle a bar of gold in front of them, and then their horns appear.
[00:58:08]  Oh, damn.
[00:58:09]  So, like, at the beginning, you had a bunch of people who were super related to the Putnam Porter dispute, the families who were in dispute.
[00:58:16]  And then from there, everything loses control, and a bunch of people who aren't involved at all get accused.
[00:58:22]  And I think that what was happening is the court's like, well, we've got to keep up appearances here, so we have to pretend that the things that we were doing before.
[00:58:29]  We're real, or else we invalidate what we were doing before.
[00:58:32]  But also, are their jails getting so full that they're like, I don't have any more room for witches?
[00:58:36]  There's some of them, but they're also killing a lot of people.
[00:58:38]  Oh, brother.
[00:58:39]  I mean, if you have like 40 people, 40 to 50 people who.
[00:58:43]  I think when you get caught up in it, a lot of them escape from prison and flee.
[00:58:48]  Cool.
[00:58:48]  A lot of them are killed.
[00:58:50]  Once they're witches, they can do that.
[00:58:51]  Sure.
[00:58:52]  Well, I think.
[00:58:53]  I don't know how you would escape from prison back then.
[00:58:55]  Just walk out?
[00:58:56]  I.
[00:58:57]  Yeah.
[00:58:57]  How good were jerks?
[00:58:58]  I'm going back to the Jedi.
[00:59:00]  I'm going back to the Jedi thing.
[00:59:01]  You want to let me out, you know?
[00:59:04]  Also, I assume they just throw them in a mass grave or something.
[00:59:07]  Oh, no.
[00:59:08]  What they would do, because they've been excommunicated and they're witches, they can't be buried in the cemeteries.
[00:59:13]  Oh, yeah.
[00:59:13]  I don't want to taint it.
[00:59:14]  So they would just hang them.
[00:59:16]  Once they die, they just throw them in a shallow grave.
[00:59:19]  And then generally what would happen is the families would come, dig them up, and bring them back to their homes.
[00:59:24]  And so they'd bury them on their property.
[00:59:26]  Jesus.
[00:59:27]  That's usually what would happen.
[00:59:28]  Unless the family was caught up in it and did believe they were witches and then probably just left them in the shallow grave.
[00:59:33]  Which is really fucked up stuff.
[00:59:35]  God damn it.
[00:59:35]  So now here's where things get funny.
[00:59:37]  I love this.
[00:59:38]  Oh, here's where things get funny?
[00:59:39]  Yes.
[00:59:40]  If you take the human tragedy out of it and all this like sadness that people are dying.
[00:59:44]  There's a Mel Brooks movie here somewhere.
[00:59:46]  The court is a comedy of dumbassery.
[00:59:49]  Okay.
[00:59:50]  Because in court, they're legitimately arguing, like, learned men and lawyers are arguing in open court whether or not a person has to give the devil permission to use their face to torment people.
[01:00:04]  Because these kids are saying that, like, oh, Sarah Good tormented me.
[01:00:10]  Yeah.
[01:00:10]  And so if she's like, I didn't, they'd be like, well, it was a shade of you.
[01:00:14]  It was an apparition of you.
[01:00:16]  Oh, okay.
[01:00:16]  The devil was using your form to do this.
[01:00:19]  So these lawyers are arguing.
[01:00:20]  Like, well, the devil could just use her shape if he wanted to.
[01:00:23]  Like, no, he needs permission.
[01:00:26]  So it's like, what the fuck is going on?
[01:00:27]  Because someone probably heard at one point, like, with Dracula, you have to invite him in or something.
[01:00:32]  Yeah.
[01:00:32]  Probably so many weird straws that were being grasped.
[01:00:34]  It's so like that.
[01:00:35]  It's very bizarre.
[01:00:36]  I heard one time, like, how funny it would be if they were just like, um, actually, I remember from my previous studies that someone once said you have to ask, the devil has to ask you to use his.
[01:00:46]  The devil tried to overthrow God, but.
[01:00:49]  Yeah.
[01:00:49]  He needs your permission.
[01:00:50]  Oh my god.
[01:00:51]  What the fuck?
[01:00:51]  Religion.
[01:00:52]  Stupid shit.
[01:00:53]  So now we get to my favorite little thing that they tried to use.
[01:00:56]  I think this is hilarious.
[01:00:58]  Well, actually, first, they had a touch test.
[01:01:02]  It was one of the things they used in court.
[01:01:03]  Whereas, if someone has been said to be bewitched, and so they're having seizures and stuff like that, if the witch touches the person and they're healed, then it proves they're a witch.
[01:01:14]  Because they believed that whatever illness I cause you, I can cure.
[01:01:20]  Because venomous evil comes out of my eyes at you, and when I touch you, The evil instinctually flows back into my body.
[01:01:28]  You would almost think then at that point they would almost try to weaponize these women or use them as healers.
[01:01:37]  Well, they could only heal that which they cause.
[01:01:39]  Okay.
[01:01:40]  So that would be not effective.
[01:01:41]  Oh, but you might want to keep one around just in case.
[01:01:44]  As a weapon, I totally understand.
[01:01:46]  Like, especially they hate these Native Americans so much.
[01:01:50]  Instead of blankets, give them these women.
[01:01:52]  Yeah, give them the witch.
[01:01:53]  Also, I'm very curious to see.
[01:01:56]  First of all, I have no doubt in my mind these men raped these women, like, while they were in prison, also.
[01:02:00]  I would assume there was some of that going on.
[01:02:01]  But also, I mean.
[01:02:02]  Well, I mean, there was one that got pregnant.
[01:02:04]  Yeah.
[01:02:04]  I mean, you have to assume that's not the only case of that.
[01:02:06]  I'm just shocked there was no guy who's like, I'm gonna give her a penis test.
[01:02:09]  Like, I'm gonna have sex with her, and if, if, uh.
[01:02:12]  If it's great.
[01:02:13]  If my.
[01:02:13]  If it's great, she's a witch.
[01:02:14]  If it's great, she's a witch.
[01:02:16]  If I come, she's a witch.
[01:02:17]  Oh no.
[01:02:19]  It does seem like a lot of the stuff is as bad as that, but not that.
[01:02:24]  You know, like, that's not formalized into, like, court doctrine.
[01:02:27]  I'm gonna assume there's some other awful stuff we are not privy to.
[01:02:30]  Yes, I would almost guarantee it.
[01:02:32]  But, one awful, not really all that awful, but really fucking stupid thing, is a thing called the witch cake.
[01:02:38]  Are you aware of the witch cake?
[01:02:39]  No, but it sounds delicious.
[01:02:41]  It's not.
[01:02:42]  It's a thing that they used in court as a method to like try and find witches.
[01:02:46]  They put a delicious piece of cake in front of these witches.
[01:02:49]  They ate it and they were a witch.
[01:02:51]  You wish that was what they did.
[01:02:53]  So what they did was they would make a cake out of rye and the urine of the children that were bewitched.
[01:03:02]  So these kids would pee and make a cake.
[01:03:04]  Kid piss cake?
[01:03:05]  Yes.
[01:03:06]  And they would feed it to a dog.
[01:03:08]  Now, their belief was that when the dog eats the cake, it will hurt the witch.
[01:03:13]  So you would hear the screams of the witch when this cake is being eaten.
[01:03:17]  Oh, yikes, it hurts so bad.
[01:03:19]  Yes, because some sort of the evil is carried through the children's urine or something like that.
[01:03:24]  It's super, it's so stupid.
[01:03:27]  I wish we had a time machine.
[01:03:28]  It's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard.
[01:03:29]  I wish we had a time machine.
[01:03:30]  Hey kid, pee in this cup.
[01:03:31]  I gotta make a cake.
[01:03:32]  I wish we had a time machine.
[01:03:33]  What?
[01:03:33]  I wish we had a time machine.
[01:03:34]  And we brought one of the guys back and they're like, guys, I know it sounds crazy, but hear me out.
[01:03:38]  And then he explained his theory.
[01:03:41]  Yeah.
[01:03:41]  On why this should be, should possibly be a thing.
[01:03:44]  I would love to have Witch Cake Guy as a guest.
[01:03:46]  Oh my god.
[01:03:47]  That's a get.
[01:03:48]  First of all, it's weird to be here in your future.
[01:03:50]  Yeah.
[01:03:51]  Second of all, what do you want to know about, uh, kid piss cakes?
[01:03:54]  Forget about me trying to get Paul F. Tompkins on the show.
[01:03:56]  I want witch cake guy.
[01:03:57]  Listen, Dan, if you, if you follow my thought pattern, it's as plain as day.
[01:04:02]  If you look at all the scholarly sources, they say that urine is powerful.
[01:04:06]  I have an entire library full of books about the urine of the child of a witch being the conduit to that witch.
[01:04:13]  Makes sense.
[01:04:14]  And, uh.
[01:04:14]  Just checks out.
[01:04:15]  I'll stand by that.
[01:04:16]  So they do all this.
[01:04:17]  Or, or this was just a guy who was into watching kids pee.
[01:04:20]  You have to think that's a possibility.
[01:04:22]  And then had a dog and he's like, I didn't get my dog any food this week.
[01:04:24]  Shit.
[01:04:25]  And they're like, oh, I know, we'll make a cake, and if the dog eats it and likes it, then the witch is a witch.
[01:04:30]  Much like the watching test, I can't imagine this ever gave concrete evidence to like, you're like, oh, witch cake worked.
[01:04:38]  It's all fucking so stupid.
[01:04:39]  Everything is so dumb.
[01:04:40]  My, my comedy brain also kind of makes me want to go, imagine the test that didn't get approved.
[01:04:46]  Well, penis test, we already got one.
[01:04:48]  Well, yeah.
[01:04:49]  Um, so.
[01:04:50]  I like that idea of like throwing them off a cliff, and if they're witches, they're gonna fly.
[01:04:53]  Yeah.
[01:04:53]  Here's your broom, and whew, and then they push them on.
[01:04:55]  Good luck.
[01:04:56]  Problem solved.
[01:04:57]  Nope, she's not a witch.
[01:04:58]  Because the problem solved, because afterwards, if she's not a witch, then we get her property.
[01:05:01]  Well, there's that, and then you're like, well, we fucked up, she was a great woman, you can just memorialize her, and then the influence is gone.
[01:05:08]  Or you could say, the evil spirits got to her, and tricked us, and tricked her, and we learned.
[01:05:15]  So, that brings us about to the end of the relevant information, which sucks, because that was so much fucking information.
[01:05:22]  Who was the president during this time?
[01:05:24]  There wasn't a president.
[01:05:25]  Oh.
[01:05:26]  This was 1630.
[01:05:26]  Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
[01:05:27]  This is before the revolution.
[01:05:29]  I'm sorry.
[01:05:30]  1776.
[01:05:31]  Lincoln, what's going on?
[01:05:33]  What did Lincoln have to say?
[01:05:35]  Who is the president?
[01:05:36]  Nixon?
[01:05:36]  Well, like I said, the information getting from England to the colony took eight years or so to get there.
[01:05:42]  So you've got to think the information going back, the king has no idea about what's going on here.
[01:05:46]  Just imagine, like, all.
[01:05:47]  And the local governors are fucking involved.
[01:05:49]  I know.
[01:05:50]  Imagine this is over, and like seven years later, like someone gets a letter and they're just like, what the fuck were they doing over there?
[01:06:00]  I guarantee that happened.
[01:06:01]  America's just a big game of grab ass.
[01:06:03]  Mm hmm.
[01:06:04]  If you think about it, like, what, the revolution starts 60 years after this or so.
[01:06:10]  There might be an element of it, like, the king was like, oh, boy.
[01:06:15]  Maybe we just thought that through the revolution because it's like, these people are dicks.
[01:06:18]  You know what?
[01:06:19]  We got to keep up a little bit of appearance.
[01:06:21]  Just send, like, some scrubs.
[01:06:22]  Is it worth the taxes we're bringing in, really, these jerks?
[01:06:27]  Maybe America is just the dumbest of the dumb.
[01:06:30]  It's pretty conceivable that that is the case.
[01:06:32]  Hey, guess what?
[01:06:33]  Hindsight is great, but, like, fuck the fuck.
[01:06:36]  Hey, witch catcher, go eat your piss cakes.
[01:06:38]  Get the fuck out of here.
[01:06:39]  Yeah.
[01:06:39]  So, in the end, 20 people executed, five die in prison, two of them little babies dying in prison, and then it just sort of ends.
[01:06:52]  You also have to wonder the implications of property, power, money that still is old.
[01:07:01]  Now we're talking old money.
[01:07:04]  It's unbelievable.
[01:07:05]  And it's the sort of thing where there's like tons and tons of like free land and land up for grab and Everything's moving so fast in terms of mechanization.
[01:07:14]  It's a cash.
[01:07:15]  Everyone's grabbing what they can.
[01:07:16]  Mechanization's not the right word, but like modernization is happening all around.
[01:07:19]  Yeah.
[01:07:20]  And when you have land, you have power.

=== Sleep Paralysis Feuds (15:03) ===

[01:07:22]  Such an ability.
[01:07:23]  So there's a lot of theories into, in terms of like what was going on.
[01:07:27]  One of the ones that's really popular among people is there was ergot poisoning, uh, in the rye in the city.
[01:07:32]  And that, uh, cause rye is very- Oh, you mean those piss cakes also had ergot in the rye?
[01:07:37]  This is before.
[01:07:38]  This is an explanation for why the kids were acting for it.
[01:07:40]  Oh, okay, okay.
[01:07:41]  So there's, rye is easily infected by, uh, claviceps purpurea, which is a precursor for LSD.
[01:07:48]  So, a lot of people believe that the rye that was in the town was infected with LSD.
[01:07:52]  Those kids are just tripping balls.
[01:07:54]  But that doesn't explain why a lot of adults weren't freaking out.
[01:07:57]  Not entirely sure.
[01:07:58]  Sure.
[01:07:58]  Who knows?
[01:07:59]  Sleep paralysis is another explanation for why kids would have terrifying visions of people.
[01:08:04]  Maybe you're a kid and you run into a homeless beggar.
[01:08:06]  That can be scary just in the effect of, like, oh, why is this person all dirty?
[01:08:10]  They're an adult.
[01:08:11]  Shouldn't they be not?
[01:08:13]  They should be in a home.
[01:08:14]  Yeah.
[01:08:14]  So, that could scare you.
[01:08:15]  You go home, you have sleep paralysis, you see that person in your head.
[01:08:19]  I tell you what, growing up in Indiana, there was a Greek family that lived by us.
[01:08:25]  You know what I say to them?
[01:08:26]  Callie Mara.
[01:08:28]  Means good day.
[01:08:29]  Oh, that's very nice, Dan.
[01:08:30]  But they had the grandmother living with them, and she was as old school Greek as you can get.
[01:08:38]  We thought she was a witch.
[01:08:39]  Of course.
[01:08:40]  She looked like a witch.
[01:08:41]  She wore black all the time because her husband died.
[01:08:42]  You should have said Callie Mara to her.
[01:08:44]  Everything would have been fine.
[01:08:45]  Or if it's the evening, Callie Hespera.
[01:08:47]  Yeah, well, we didn't like her, so we called her a Malacca.
[01:08:49]  Oh, no, no Malacca.
[01:08:51]  Hehehe.
[01:08:52]  No.
[01:08:53]  The only other Greek word I remember is F. Charisto.
[01:08:55]  Oh, yeah?
[01:08:56]  Which means, uh, thank you.
[01:08:57]  Yeah.
[01:08:58]  Malacca's like, fuck it up.
[01:08:59]  It's evil.
[01:08:59]  Malacca's fucker, right?
[01:09:00]  It's a bad person.
[01:09:01]  Oh, okay.
[01:09:02]  No, not fucker, no.
[01:09:03]  Okay.
[01:09:04]  I don't think they had a word for fucker.
[01:09:05]  Motherfucker?
[01:09:05]  Malacca's not a motherfucker?
[01:09:06]  No, malacca just means, like, evil person.
[01:09:08]  Oh, okay.
[01:09:09]  Bad person.
[01:09:10]  So, uh, we, I mean, we were convinced we'd go in their backyard freaking out.
[01:09:14]  Like, I don't know.
[01:09:15]  And if you had an instance of sleep paralysis or something like that where you might see her, there's a huge phenomenon of people seeing an old hag.
[01:09:23]  It's called old hag syndrome.
[01:09:25]  People have sleep paralysis, and when they come to, they hallucinate and see an old woman sitting on their chest.
[01:09:30]  Yeah.
[01:09:30]  This is just something that is super bizarre, but it does happen.
[01:09:34]  Yeah.
[01:09:34]  So that's a pretty good explanation for this.
[01:09:37]  There's all these super horny kids having milf fantasies.
[01:09:39]  Could be.
[01:09:40]  Could be.
[01:09:40]  And they don't know which way their boner's going.
[01:09:42]  Gilf fantasies.
[01:09:43]  There's another instance of, they believe that around the time there was an outbreak of bird born encephalitis lethagerica, which is a bird carried disease that causes paralysis, catatonia.
[01:09:56]  Nocturnal, not emissions.
[01:09:58]  Emissions?
[01:09:58]  Nope.
[01:09:59]  No.
[01:09:59]  Just nocturnality, basically your sleep schedule flips.
[01:10:02]  Yeah.
[01:10:03]  Do you have delayed responses to physical and mental stimulus?
[01:10:07]  He sounds like most of my girlfriends.
[01:10:10]  Might be witches.
[01:10:11]  Most of my girlfriends, I think, would have been considered witches.
[01:10:13]  Yeah.
[01:10:14]  They can't sleep.
[01:10:16]  So at the end of it, I am 100% convinced that the beginning of it had to do with the Porter Putnam feud, that the two families, when you look into them, The reason that they were at loggerheads was that the Putnam family wanted to stay into the agricultural part of the city.
[01:10:38]  That's what they were more invested in, and they wanted to be autonomous from Salem Town.
[01:10:43]  The Porter family saw more promise in progress and the future that Salem Town was involved in, and they wanted to be absorbed into Salem Town.
[01:10:53]  The two of the families had fucking.
[01:10:55]  It's not like you don't like someone.
[01:10:58]  Nowadays, and you have a feud with them.
[01:11:00]  Back then, people who weren't part of their family would be out drinking and be like, hey, I'm a Porter guy.
[01:11:07]  You'd be a Putnam guy.
[01:11:08]  We're sitting here having a beer.
[01:11:09]  Everything is fine.
[01:11:10]  Then that topic comes up.
[01:11:12]  All of a sudden, we're fighting.
[01:11:13]  It's like Flair Hogan fans in the 90s, right?
[01:11:15]  Exactly.
[01:11:16]  Unrelated parties get involved in the feud.
[01:11:18]  Yeah.
[01:11:18]  And so the whole town was sort of caught up in these two families' philosophies.
[01:11:22]  It's kind of like Brexit a little bit in terms of like, should we leave Salem Town or should we be absorbed into Salem Town?
[01:11:29]  Yeah.
[01:11:29]  People have a lot of really hot feelings about it.
[01:11:32]  So the Reverend Paris that comes to town, Samuel Paris, can't figure out how to solve it, but he is more involved in the Putnam side, the autonomy side for Salem.
[01:11:46]  Yeah.
[01:11:47]  In addition to that, well, here's why it's such bullshit.
[01:11:52]  He's involved with the Putnam side of the philosophy.
[01:11:55]  His daughter and niece are the first two people who make accusations, along with Ann Putnam Jr., who there's three people who start making accusations.
[01:12:04]  Yeah.
[01:12:05]  And all three of them are on the Putnam side.
[01:12:07]  The people that they accuse are largely Porter sympathizers or people that the Putnam family have had land disputes with.
[01:12:14]  Yeah.
[01:12:15]  If you go down the Putnam family, you just see people constantly being involved.
[01:12:20]  What do you do?
[01:12:21]  If you come to town, I leave.
[01:12:22]  No, no, you're.
[01:12:23]  I get the fuck out of there.
[01:12:24]  You're specifically brought into town.
[01:12:26]  Also, they said, Dan, you give him a nice plot of land if you stay here and fix this.
[01:12:29]  They do give him the land that the church is on and everything like that.
[01:12:33]  They give him like 66 pounds a year or something like that, which then is a pretty good amount of money.
[01:12:37]  So, you've got to fix this.
[01:12:38]  What are you doing?
[01:12:39]  I mean, what he did, I think, was absolutely the wrong thing to do, which is siding with these manipulative Putnams.
[01:12:46]  Yeah.
[01:12:47]  I don't know.
[01:12:48]  I mean, if you truly believe that Salem should be autonomous from the other Salem.
[01:12:52]  Yeah.
[01:12:53]  I don't know what you do.
[01:12:54]  I'm getting a big crew of just big, strong boys.
[01:12:57]  Yeah?
[01:12:58]  And we're just saying, no more fucking around.
[01:13:00]  You get Braun Strowman on your side.
[01:13:02]  I'm bringing the fucking Wyatt family.
[01:13:04]  You think these guys are witches?
[01:13:06]  What are you going to do about it?
[01:13:07]  We'll fucking throw boards and rocks all over everybody.
[01:13:10]  We're here.
[01:13:11]  Salem.
[01:13:12]  We're here.
[01:13:12]  We're here.
[01:13:14]  Man, this just drives me crazy.
[01:13:16]  Yeah, it really drives me fucking crazy.
[01:13:18]  Just to give you a couple of Putnam family members, you had Ann Putnam Jr., who was one of the first accusers.
[01:13:24]  Ann Putnam Sr. also accused a bunch of people.
[01:13:27]  Edward Putnam, he was in the role of an examiner.
[01:13:30]  Yeah.
[01:13:31]  So when people were accused, he would sort of grill them and be one of the arbiters of whether or not they were lying.
[01:13:36]  Yeah.
[01:13:36]  Which seems like a conflict of interest.
[01:13:38]  Hannah Putnam made a bunch of accusations and blamed one lady for being a witch and killing her eight year old child who just died of probably SIDS.
[01:13:46]  Also, back then, kids died.
[01:13:48]  Yeah.
[01:13:48]  People died.
[01:13:49]  And then John Putnam Jr., or John Putnam Sr., excuse me, is the biggest dick in the world.
[01:13:54]  He's the one who had sued a bunch of people who all seemed to be on the accused side.
[01:13:59]  Uh, that Reverend Burroughs that I mentioned earlier.
[01:14:02]  Yeah.
[01:14:02]  He, uh, Reverend Burroughs skipped out of town because he didn't like the way things were going.
[01:14:06]  John Putnam Sr. sues him.
[01:14:08]  Yeah.
[01:14:09]  Or threatens to sue him because he's like, you breached your contract as the minister of this town.
[01:14:13]  And so he's like, all right, I'll come back.
[01:14:15]  But the two of them, because that's kind of an honorable thing on his part to come back.
[01:14:18]  Burroughs comes back.
[01:14:20]  Two of them still don't get along.
[01:14:21]  Like 15 years later, he's like, fucking dude's a witch.
[01:14:24]  And then Burroughs is hung.
[01:14:25]  He ends up being hung.
[01:14:26]  Why would you go back there?
[01:14:28]  Yeah.
[01:14:28]  So all of these people seem to have, like, at the beginning, seem to have ties.
[01:14:32]  To this dispute.
[01:14:34]  Yeah.
[01:14:34]  And then later it becomes a widespread phenomenon where it's just like, well, things got out of control.
[01:14:40]  Beyond that, you do have to wrestle with the fact that it's so against women.
[01:14:44]  All I wrestle with is depression, Dan.
[01:14:46]  Thanks very much.
[01:14:46]  No, I'm just kidding.
[01:14:48]  Sorry.
[01:14:49]  Yeah, it's all women.
[01:14:51]  I mean, it's.
[01:14:52]  That's not an irrelevant piece of this.
[01:14:54]  No, it's a huge part of it.
[01:14:56]  And some of these women were pretty strong.
[01:14:58]  Yeah.
[01:14:58]  I think, or a little too ballsy for that time.
[01:15:02]  You use Sarah Osborne as an example of that with the marrying and indentured serving.
[01:15:07]  Yeah.
[01:15:07]  Claiming her own land, all these sorts of things.
[01:15:09]  Who didn't want to go to church?
[01:15:11]  Standing up against Putnam, John Putnam Sr., as well in a land dispute.
[01:15:16]  Oh, yeah.
[01:15:16]  Like, these sorts of things are very threatening.
[01:15:19]  I feel like a lot of it is probably just like, you stood up to me.
[01:15:24]  You're a fucking witch.
[01:15:26]  I feel like instead of the Salem witch trials, these might have been called the Salem bitch trials.
[01:15:31]  The Salem dudes of small dicks trials.
[01:15:33]  These little dicked men going, they're being bitches.
[01:15:36]  I'm killing them.
[01:15:37]  You have to wonder, too, how many, like, I wouldn't be super surprised if some of the people who were accused.
[01:15:42]  Were people who rejected men's advances or something like that?
[01:15:45]  I would not be surprised at all if some of that was the real reason.
[01:15:49]  Were any of these women into the dark arts at all?
[01:15:53]  I mean.
[01:15:54]  Is there anything you read that were like, you know, dark arts?
[01:15:57]  I mean, Tichaba might have been involved in some voodoo shit, but like, how real is that?
[01:16:02]  There were also women who did like make potions and stuff like that, but that was like holistic healing, like we said.
[01:16:08]  Now, there were those three ladies whose names I can't remember, I'm trying to come up with.
[01:16:14]  Salt, Pepper, and Spindarella.
[01:16:15]  That's correct.
[01:16:15]  How do you do the voodoo that you do?
[01:16:18]  Date witches.
[01:16:20]  Make me want to.
[01:16:21]  Shoop, shoop, shoop.
[01:16:23]  I saw them live.
[01:16:24]  They were terrible.
[01:16:24]  I wish I could have won.
[01:16:25]  No, you don't.
[01:16:26]  They were terrible.
[01:16:27]  There were those three whose names are escaping me now.
[01:16:29]  I can't find them in the notes.
[01:16:30]  But they admitted to being witches.
[01:16:32]  There were a lot of people who admitted to stuff, but they probably weren't really.
[01:16:36]  They probably just admitted it either because it's like, hey, we're going to be real cool if we admit it.
[01:16:41]  And once we admit to being witches, we can blame anybody.
[01:16:45]  Or there might have been a cool, like, Ladies, just admit you're witches.
[01:16:49]  Nothing's going to happen to you.
[01:16:50]  Everything's cool.
[01:16:51]  Nothing's going to happen to you.
[01:16:52]  They could have been railroaded.
[01:16:54]  I wouldn't put anything past these fucking guys.
[01:16:56]  I think a piece of it, too, is that some of these people were on the lower end of society and maybe like to drink at night.
[01:17:04]  So they're drinking around a campfire or something like that, and people are like, they like the Two Life Crew.
[01:17:09]  I like to party and have a good time.
[01:17:11]  Nothing but pleasure in my rhymes.
[01:17:13]  Well, actually, Sarah Good did run a fuck shop.
[01:17:16]  Oh, really?
[01:17:16]  Yeah, much like the Two Life Crew.
[01:17:18]  Did she welcome people to it?
[01:17:19]  I'd like to bring you in here.
[01:17:21]  And then steal a little Van Halen guitar riff.
[01:17:24]  They were as thieving as they wanted to be.
[01:17:27]  So, Marty, what's your feeling on all this?
[01:17:30]  Besides, dudes suck.
[01:17:31]  I hate society.
[01:17:33]  I hate white dudes.
[01:17:34]  In a way, it does kind of make me, you know, I have sort of a love hate relationship with our government and our judicial system.
[01:17:46]  But in a way, it does make me think like, you know, we kind of do need, like, Somebody in charge to be like, what the fuck are you guys doing there?
[01:17:57]  Well, if all of us don't do it, someone's gonna.
[01:17:59]  Now, at the other hand, it's like, yeah, this is what we do.
[01:18:03]  And there are, I mean, it might not be the Salem witch trials nowadays, but there are, I mean, that's why we have the term witch hunt.
[01:18:11]  Yeah.
[01:18:11]  You know?
[01:18:11]  Mass hysteria is very.
[01:18:13]  And, you know, we saw it after 9 11.
[01:18:16]  We still see it now with Middle Easterners, with Muslims.
[01:18:20]  It's rampant.
[01:18:21]  I mean, go back to Brexit a little bit.
[01:18:23]  Yeah.
[01:18:23]  And then.
[01:18:24]  That's kind of fueling a lot of the reasons for that.
[01:18:28]  Sure.
[01:18:28]  Xenophobia and, uh.
[01:18:29]  And it's, and it's very easy also to, uh, use one thing to push another thing through.
[01:18:36]  Again, the Nazis did it too when they were like, guys, there's some bad stuff out there.
[01:18:40]  You might want your boys, the Nazis, to be in charge.
[01:18:42]  We'll take care of you.
[01:18:42]  And they're like, you, you know what?
[01:18:43]  You're right.
[01:18:44]  And they're like, yeah, just sign this paper and then we're cool.
[01:18:46]  We'll be in charge.
[01:18:47]  But, and as soon as everything cools down, we'll relinquish back power.
[01:18:50]  Sure.
[01:18:50]  Like real cool dudes.
[01:18:52]  Uh.
[01:18:52]  The bad people take care of a problem but create a worse one.
[01:18:55]  Absolutely.
[01:18:56]  So you take care of local government.
[01:18:58]  Bush administration.
[01:18:59]  Sure.
[01:19:00]  Sure.
[01:19:01]  Uhm.
[01:19:01]  I haven't had another 9-11, but we also are being listened to right now and not on a podcast.
[01:19:06]  I know.
[01:19:06]  My phone is out.
[01:19:07]  Someone's listening.
[01:19:08]  David chipping my butt.
[01:19:09]  But, yeah, I mean, it's just one of those things where it's like you look back in history, and like you said, 100 years from now, they might look back at this time and go, what the fuck were those idiots doing?
[01:19:18]  Sure.
[01:19:19]  I mean, we have instances of things like that.
[01:19:22]  There was a lady who got stabbed on the CTA last week.
[01:19:24]  Yeah.
[01:19:25]  And it was a situation where a guy came up to her and was like, hey, you should have my babies.
[01:19:30]  And she was like, no, I don't want to have your babies.
[01:19:32]  And he just started stabbing her on a train.
[01:19:34]  Right.
[01:19:34]  Now, that is an isolated incident, but it is sort of indicative of a lot of ways that some men treat women.
[01:19:41]  Absolutely.
[01:19:41]  There is a entitlement.
[01:19:43]  There is a, like, I deserve you kind of thing.
[01:19:45]  I think a hundred years from now, hopefully, we'll be evolved enough to look back on that and be like, I can't believe that society didn't rise up as a whole and eradicate that quicker.
[01:19:55]  And I think, uh, it, and I, and I think, uh, mental illness is still a thing that we don't quite understand or comprehend.
[01:20:04]  I think a lot of these instances might have, uh, had some mental illness factors.
[01:20:10]  Sure.
[01:20:11]  And just like the guy going up to the woman on the train saying, have my babies or I'm going to kill you.
[01:20:15]  Probably dealing with some mental illness issues himself there.
[01:20:17]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:20:18]  He's absolutely crazy, but, you know, much like with this witch trial stuff, people are crazy, but you can't ignore or diminish the anti women aspect of it.
[01:20:29]  Right, right.
[01:20:30]  There's a thread, there's a consistent feel in this witch trial stuff of, like, either fear of women or hatred.
[01:20:37]  And that whole bit of absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
[01:20:43]  I think you had people in a position of power here who were just like, you know, we can get that land.
[01:20:48]  Or I can get that land back.
[01:20:49]  And absolute power and no oversight.
[01:20:52]  No oversight.
[01:20:53]  They're being ignored.
[01:20:54]  There has to be an oversight committee.
[01:20:55]  There has to be some sort of like check.
[01:20:57]  Who watches the watchman?
[01:21:00]  I agree with you.
[01:21:01]  I think all that is true.
[01:21:02]  And then also, I think absolutely John Putnam Sr. may be one of the biggest dicks in history.
[01:21:09]  I think he's responsible for 90% of this.
[01:21:11]  Welcome to the club.
[01:21:13]  Join that table with Prescott Bush.
[01:21:15]  Prescott Bush.
[01:21:18]  Adolf Hitler.
[01:21:20]  Hitler's in there.
[01:21:21]  I was trying to think of better, like, more controversial people to throw in there.
[01:21:31]  Let's throw Warhol.
[01:21:33]  Andy Warhol?
[01:21:34]  Andy Warhol.
[01:21:35]  He's a big asshole.
[01:21:36]  I'm going to go ahead and throw H.H. Holmes in there.
[01:21:38]  Sure, sure.
[01:21:39]  Actual serial killer.
[01:21:40]  And M. Night Shyamalan.
[01:21:42]  Yeah, because of the village.
[01:21:44]  Well, Marty, I think we found some truth here.
[01:21:46]  I think we have.
[01:21:47]  I like.
[01:21:48]  I think this is the first time it's a.
[01:21:50]  You could argue that was a real conspiracy.
[01:21:53]  I think it was.
[01:21:53]  I think the rest of these have been weird shit.
[01:21:55]  I think we, uh, and again, women had to die, uh, for this episode.
[01:21:59]  Yeah, I don't like that being the common thread.
[01:22:02]  I know.
[01:22:03]  But it also sheds another, shines another light, sort of, on, uh, a little, uh, uh, nasty habit we have as, uh, as white men in America.
[01:22:12]  Just sometimes women are not treated great.
[01:22:15]  And hopefully, like, it just to me is so if there would have been, like, a, a, the Salem Warlock trials or something like that, where all these men were accused of things.
[01:22:24]  Mm hmm.

=== Devil Deals and White Men (15:10) ===

[01:22:25]  I mean, it's one of those things where I think about it and I get so just like, how did this happen?
[01:22:34]  Yeah.
[01:22:35]  Well, I mean, I think we know how it happened.
[01:22:37]  This episode isn't, that's the one you think it's, God, guys.
[01:22:41]  You know what?
[01:22:41]  It's what the fuck?
[01:22:42]  It is what the fuck.
[01:22:43]  It's not even a guys.
[01:22:44]  That's too nice for this.
[01:22:45]  You know what?
[01:22:46]  This is a what the fuck.
[01:22:47]  It really is.
[01:22:48]  It's also a what the fuck.
[01:22:49]  It's slavery.
[01:22:50]  It's like one of those, like, what the fuck were you going to.
[01:22:53]  We're going to get sued by Marin.
[01:22:55]  What's WTF?
[01:22:56]  This is the WTF podcast.
[01:22:58]  What the fuck?
[01:23:00]  Witch trials?
[01:23:00]  Are you fucking kidding me?
[01:23:02]  You want people to pee in a cake?
[01:23:04]  What is going on?
[01:23:05]  I do wonder if there are any, uh, Salem witch trial apologists.
[01:23:11]  Probably.
[01:23:11]  Listen, I'm fifth generation Putnam.
[01:23:15]  Let me tell my family's point of view.
[01:23:17]  I would also like that person on the podcast.
[01:23:19]  Let me explain my point of view, and then you're like, wow, shit, I never looked at it that way.
[01:23:22]  You know what I mean?
[01:23:23]  My family's point of view is we wanted this land.
[01:23:25]  Also, imagine the lying of just like, she made a snake appear and then disappear.
[01:23:30]  Yeah.
[01:23:31]  Well, who can refute that?
[01:23:32]  Nobody.
[01:23:33]  Well, that was what was called spectral evidence.
[01:23:35]  Yeah.
[01:23:35]  It was used very heavily in the trials.
[01:23:38]  Until outside jurisdiction started to learn about this, like a year later, two years later, and they were like, hey guys, don't do that.
[01:23:46]  You're bastardizing our court system.
[01:23:47]  Justice doesn't exist if you just use spectral evidence.
[01:23:51]  To me, it's kind of funny.
[01:23:52]  Hey, I saw a ghost.
[01:23:53]  If, if the, uh, you know, with the, going back to like the Civil War and all that stuff, or, or let's just say like, you know, kind of like what's going on with the European Union, if like, if all these countries are, uh, able to sort of be their own little countries, uh, it would be kind of wild for like court cases to be like, oh, you're in Indiana.
[01:24:12]  In Indiana.
[01:24:13]  We believe that snakes tell the truth.
[01:24:16]  Your Honor, I would like to call this boa constrictor to the stand.
[01:24:19]  I would like to call Jake the Snake's name.
[01:24:20]  What was the snake's name?
[01:24:22]  Damien.
[01:24:22]  Damien, damn it.
[01:24:23]  Or Lucifer.
[01:24:24]  Damien to the stand.
[01:24:25]  He got Lucifer after the earthquake killed Damien.
[01:24:28]  Oh, no, earthquake.
[01:24:29]  Come on.
[01:24:30]  So, Marty, before we wrap this up, is there a song you want to hear?
[01:24:34]  I do.
[01:24:35]  Yeah.
[01:24:35]  Well, I mean.
[01:24:37]  We'll come back to wrap it up after.
[01:24:39]  I was kind of thinking maybe we play the original first to just kind of give people a taste.
[01:24:43]  Are you ready to just go right into it?
[01:24:44]  Everyone's heard fucking Charlie Daniels.
[01:24:46]  Give, you have, you probably have a great Charlie Daniels voice.
[01:24:49]  Give him kind of the gist of the song.
[01:24:50]  Never went down to Georgia.
[01:24:51]  He was looking for a soul to steal.
[01:24:52]  Yeah.
[01:24:53]  He was in a bind.
[01:24:53]  He was way behind.
[01:24:54]  He was looking to make a deal.
[01:24:56]  It was better than I thought it could have been.
[01:24:57]  The, the, the boy said, My name's Johnny, and it might be a sin.
[01:25:01]  I'll take that bet.
[01:25:02]  You're going to regret, because I'm the best there ever's been.
[01:25:04]  Ooh.
[01:25:05]  Fire on the mountain, run, boys, run!
[01:25:09]  Been in a, been in a, been in a, been, been in a, been, Yeah, or something like that.
[01:25:18]  That's a fun song when you're like, four on the bass.
[01:25:23]  Four beers in, just sitting at a bar by your, this reminds me of the bar I used to work at in Indiana.
[01:25:27]  So it's like just a bunch of dudes by themselves.
[01:25:30]  Everyone's smoking, watching like something sports or Jeopardy.
[01:25:34]  And then someone's like, I don't want to play some music.
[01:25:36]  And then this comes on and everyone's just kind of like toes are tapping.
[01:25:39]  So this song came out.
[01:25:40]  Well, if we're talking about country stuff that's sort of anthemic like that, like the Devil One Down Georgia is great, but I'll take, If you're going to play in Texas, you better have a fiddle in the band any day of the week.
[01:25:51]  Really?
[01:25:52]  Yeah.
[01:25:52]  You know why?
[01:25:53]  No.
[01:25:54]  Because that lead guitar is hot, but not for a Louisiana man.
[01:25:58]  You rosin up that bow and play for love and let's all dance.
[01:26:02]  If you're going to play in Texas, you better have a fiddle in the band.
[01:26:06]  Dan is getting so excited right now.
[01:26:07]  I love that song.
[01:26:08]  So this is the KMC crew.
[01:26:10]  It is.
[01:26:10]  How do they spell crew?
[01:26:11]  K R U.
[01:26:12]  I knew it.
[01:26:13]  All caps.
[01:26:13]  Of course.
[01:26:14]  So this is the KMC crew, and this is their answer.
[01:26:17]  To the devil went down to Georgia.
[01:26:20]  Devil came up to Detroit or to Michigan.
[01:26:22]  Yeah.
[01:26:23]  They're both.
[01:26:24]  Michigan's kind of funny.
[01:26:25]  It's kind of like.
[01:26:26]  Oh, really?
[01:26:26]  Like Ann Arbor?
[01:26:27]  Got a Raid ad here.
[01:26:28]  Our sponsor today is Raid on the podcast.
[01:26:31]  Did the devil go up to Ann Arbor?
[01:26:32]  Like, they wanted to say Detroit, but that just didn't.
[01:26:34]  The devil went to Lansing.
[01:26:35]  The devil went up to.
[01:26:37]  Yeah.
[01:26:37]  Went to Kalamazoo.
[01:26:38]  The devil went up to do a Yoder gig for no money or a hotel.
[01:26:43]  All right, here we go.
[01:26:44]  We'll be right back.
[01:26:56]  Yes.
[01:27:10]  The devil, came up to Michigan.
[01:27:13]  He was looking for a soul to steal.
[01:27:15]  He had trouble in mind, he was dropping a line.
[01:27:17]  He was looking to make a deal.
[01:27:19]  He had a brand new Nissan truck, convertible, with a portable phone.
[01:27:23]  He had a Kenwood deck that was bumping loud as he stopped in the no parking zone.
[01:27:27]  The devil stepped out with the people on the step of a black fielder suit that was down.
[01:27:31]  But then he turned his head when his eyes got red when he heard this scratching sound.
[01:27:34]  He walked up on a boy on two turntables.
[01:27:36]  This boy was ripping the cut.
[01:27:38]  So the devil jumped up on the back of his truck and said, Boy, let me tell you what.
[01:27:42]  You rock the beat, good, a good boy, but nah, it ain't nothing new.
[01:27:45]  Cause I'm in your time, about to take that crown, and ain't nothing that you can do.
[01:27:49]  But if you wanna get bad, don't make me mad, we can make this little bet true.
[01:27:53]  I turned table of gold against your soul, I think I'm better than you.
[01:27:57]  The boy said, My name's the butcher, and I'm the baddest around in this city.
[01:28:00]  You start messing with me, and I'm sure you'll see, you're gonna feel real itty bitty.
[01:28:04]  But I'll take that bet, and you're gonna regret it.
[01:28:06]  And then the butcher started flexing his wrist.
[01:28:08]  But then the devil's posse all jumped in, then they broke it on down like this.
[01:28:18]  Dungeons, d The devil could scratch her.
[01:28:41]  Also, this video is awesome.
[01:28:43]  I don't think I've ever seen an idiot.
[01:28:46]  When the devil got done scratching, everyone knew he wasn't no joke.
[01:28:53]  Because his records caught on fire, the turntables went up in smoke.
[01:28:57]  The devil's posse got in a circle and they gave each other high five.
[01:29:00]  They thought the butcher had lost.
[01:29:02]  Party, party, time to get a lot.
[01:29:04]  Butcher.
[01:29:04]  The butcher started stretching.
[01:29:06]  He yawned and looked at the devil.
[01:29:08]  Then he dropped his arms down by his side and kind of giggled and laughed at the fellow.
[01:29:13]  He had some double mink come, so he put it in his mouth.
[01:29:16]  I guess he enjoyed the day.
[01:29:19]  But then he threw the gun and went to the place.
[01:29:28]  Step back and holler out.
[01:29:33]  At this point, the devil knows he's done, right?
[01:29:35]  He's like, oh shit, I thought I had skills.
[01:29:37]  I hope he calls the devil the son of a bitch.
[01:29:39]  The end.
[01:29:48]  This is so good.
[01:29:49]  What do you think?
[01:29:50]  I like it.
[01:29:52]  It's pretty hot, fire.
[01:30:17]  Because he knew he had been beat.
[01:30:19]  So he laid that fresh turntable of gold down by the butcher's feet.
[01:30:23]  The butcher told the devil to get out of town and he laughed dead in his face.
[01:30:27]  Then the butcher started cutting all over again.
[01:30:29]  Step back and hollered out.
[01:30:30]  Bang!
[01:30:31]  Perfect.
[01:30:32]  That's whack.
[01:30:36]  I only hate that he doesn't call the devil a son of a bitch at the end.
[01:30:39]  I know.
[01:30:40]  Because that's the trademark of Charlie Davis.
[01:30:43]  I know.
[01:30:43]  Come on back, you son of a bitch.
[01:30:45]  You're the best I've ever been.
[01:30:49]  While I was Googling this or looking this up, I found another song that I've never heard, but it might be important.
[01:30:57]  All right.
[01:30:59]  There's apparently a number of Devil Came to Blank songs.
[01:31:03]  I love them.
[01:31:04]  So now we're going to turn this into an impromptu jam sandwich.
[01:31:07]  I'm fine.
[01:31:08]  I'm fine.
[01:31:08]  Hey, babies, take off your pants and get your erections erect.
[01:31:15]  I'm trying to do my best, Nick.
[01:31:17]  This is The Devil Went to Jamaica.
[01:31:19]  Oh, come on.
[01:31:20]  How are we doing this, stop, Nick?
[01:31:22]  This isn't part of the song.
[01:31:25]  Oh, no?
[01:31:25]  No.
[01:31:25]  It's not, damn?
[01:31:26]  No.
[01:31:29]  Oh, man.
[01:31:31]  This is exactly the same song.
[01:31:35]  So far.
[01:31:36]  I hope it gets, like, real reggae.
[01:31:39]  Please.
[01:31:40]  If this is just, like, a really shitty parody, I'm gonna turn it off.
[01:31:45]  Welcome to Bob and Tom.
[01:31:46]  Welcome to the Bob and Tom Show.
[01:31:50]  That's a Morning Zoo Crew fucking version.
[01:31:53]  No, it's David Allen Coe.
[01:31:55]  What?
[01:31:55]  Yeah.
[01:31:56]  Did he say the N word in it?
[01:32:01]  I think he has to.
[01:32:02]  It's okay.
[01:32:02]  I think by law.
[01:32:03]  We'll believe it.
[01:32:07]  We'll believe it if we have to.
[01:32:09]  That N word devil.
[01:32:12]  There's no way this is David Allen Coe.
[01:32:14]  That's what it says on YouTube.
[01:32:16]  What?
[01:32:19]  I'll tell you what.
[01:32:27]  This is not David Allenco.
[01:32:29]  This is what it's credited as.
[01:32:31]  This sounds like an accountant.
[01:32:37]  There's another one Devil Came Up to Boston.
[01:32:39]  Oh, shit.
[01:32:40]  Which I wish was the Bostones.
[01:32:41]  Oh, man.
[01:32:43]  The devil!
[01:32:46]  A little Irishy.
[01:32:50]  This is the Adam Ezra group.
[01:32:52]  Oh, fuck off.
[01:32:53]  He just got in from Quincy where he grained out a lobster bait.
[01:32:59]  This is like Boston blackface.
[01:33:05]  Oh, when he turns into the devil, he puts on a Yankees hat.
[01:33:11]  Yeah, I know, right?
[01:33:15]  It was Derek fucking Jada.
[01:33:23]  Fuck this.
[01:33:23]  Fuck you, Morning Zoo Crew Boston shithead.
[01:33:30]  What sucks is that, like.
[01:33:32]  There's an opportunity here for anybody who wants to make a fucking devil song.
[01:33:37]  Yeah, go ahead.
[01:33:39]  The devil came to where?
[01:33:40]  The devil can come to Chicago.
[01:33:41]  We could do the devil.
[01:33:42]  The devil came to Chicago.
[01:33:43]  We got Danny Callis.
[01:33:44]  The devil came to Chicago.
[01:33:45]  Dude, the devil came up to Chicago looking for some ketchup on a dog.
[01:33:50]  Looking for some Italian beef.
[01:33:52]  No, the premise always has to be that he's looking for a soul to steal because he needs a soul.
[01:33:56]  He's behind.
[01:33:57]  That's right.
[01:33:58]  The devil came up to Chicago looking for a soul to steal.
[01:34:01]  Mm hmm.
[01:34:02]  Jimmy was behind the counter making Italian beef.
[01:34:05]  Said, Boy, let me tell you what, you make a beef pretty good.
[01:34:08]  The problem is, it has to be musical.
[01:34:09]  I know.
[01:34:11]  What's the quintessential?
[01:34:12]  Oh, here's the beef.
[01:34:13]  The band Chicago.
[01:34:14]  No.
[01:34:14]  It's a horn section battle.
[01:34:16]  No.
[01:34:17]  The devil can do it.
[01:34:18]  We get Jim Belushi playing harmonica.
[01:34:20]  I'm listening.
[01:34:22]  We get a Blues Brothers 2016.
[01:34:23]  We get the Blues Brothers 2016.
[01:34:26]  Because they were on a mission from God.
[01:34:27]  They were.
[01:34:28]  So it makes sense where, so here's the story.
[01:34:30]  Devil versus Blues Brothers.
[01:34:31]  But it goes, it goes like they're like, somebody's like a little in over their head, then all of a sudden, all of a sudden in walked Jim Belushi.
[01:34:38]  Doom, doom, doom.
[01:34:39]  He said, my brother, whatever, whatever.
[01:34:42]  Yeah, no, I don't want to get sued by the old Belush.
[01:34:45]  He seems litigious.
[01:34:46]  Is Chubby Checker still alive?
[01:34:48]  Oh, I have to think he is.
[01:34:50]  Not?
[01:34:52]  I think he's dead.
[01:34:53]  Chubby Checker walked in.
[01:34:54]  I said, Chubby, let me tell you what.
[01:34:56]  Chubby Checker, would you like to do the twist?
[01:34:59]  I like that idea of those.
[01:35:01]  God, but like.
[01:35:02]  That's what, this makes me mad.
[01:35:04]  Well, Dan, listen to me then.
[01:35:06]  Okay.
[01:35:06]  Those, that's Morning Zoo Crew 101.
[01:35:09]  You probably, you get a binder from, here's what happens.
[01:35:12]  A lot of those zoo crews, especially back in the day, there was comedy, this was pre-internet.
[01:35:17]  So there was comedy services.
[01:35:19]  Comedians would write those songs for bits and all this stuff.
[01:35:23]  And they'd probably get like a binder and it's like, hey, do a Devil Came Up 2 or Down 2 for whatever your local region is.
[01:35:32]  That's Morning Radio Zoo Crew 101.
[01:35:34]  You gotta have a Devil Came Up 2 or Down 2 song.
[01:35:37]  I'm Googling it and it does seem like the Devil Went Down to Jamaica is David Allen Co.
[01:35:42]  That's crazy.
[01:35:45]  How?
[01:35:46]  It doesn't match.
[01:35:47]  I love David Allen Co.
[01:35:48]  Do you?
[01:35:49]  I like some of his songs.
[01:35:51]  Fair enough.
[01:35:52]  I've got some on my phone here, and some of them I can't play in front of certain friends.
[01:35:57]  All right.
[01:35:57]  This has spiraled quite a ways from our conspiracy theory, but let's just wrap that up.
[01:36:05]  John Putnam Sr. is a bad dude.
[01:36:08]  Are we handing out our.
[01:36:10]  Cheers and jeers.
[01:36:11]  Cheers and jeers.
[01:36:12]  Cheers to all the ladies who were unfairly accused of being a witch.
[01:36:15]  Cheers.
[01:36:16]  Cheers to all the insecure men.
[01:36:18]  Cheers to toxic masculinity and John Putnam Sr.
[01:36:22]  Toxic masculine.
[01:36:23]  That was.
[01:36:27]  That's what they want you to think.
[01:36:30]  I guess we're not doing social media blogs.
[01:36:32]  That's after this.
[01:36:34]  Oh, good.
[01:36:35]  That's what they want you to think.
[01:36:37]  If you're a woman and you think we think you're a witch.
[01:36:41]  If you're a kid tripping on LSD, you might be cool, but we still have to kill you.
[01:36:48]  Cause that's what they want you to think.
[01:36:50]  Property and witchcraft, it's all the same.
[01:36:54]  Uh, Marty, people can follow you at Marty DeRosa.
[01:36:56]  They can, and they can follow you at Freezing Point.
[01:36:58]  Correct.
[01:36:58]  And they can find your wonderful podcast, Marty and Sarah Love Wrestling, over at the MLW Network.
[01:37:04]  Go to iTunes, search MLW Radio.
[01:37:07]  It's you, Conan.
[01:37:10]  More podcasts.
[01:37:11]  Conan, not Conan.
[01:37:13]  Whatever.
[01:37:14]  It's, uh, it's all the K Dog, not the C Dog, bro.
[01:37:17]  Uh, a lot of great wrestling themed podcasts over there, and you're on fire.
[01:37:22]  Get a t shirt.
[01:37:22]  Super excited.
[01:37:23]  Get a t shirt, Marty and Sarah Love Wrestling.
[01:37:24]  ProWrestlingTees.com slash Marty and Sarah.
[01:37:27]  Sarah with an H. Also still, uh, ComediansYouShouldKnow.com every Wednesday night.
[01:37:31]  ComediansYouShouldKnow.com.
[01:37:32]  WrestlingWithDepression, if you will.
[01:37:34]  If you will, and even if you won't.

=== LSD Bread Conclusion (02:14) ===

[01:37:36]  Still there.
[01:37:37]  FreezingPoint.com is our website where you can find all the flippityhoo and, uh, nanas and weos.
[01:37:42]  All of it.
[01:37:42]  It's all there.
[01:37:43]  Also, if you want to donate, please, uh, feel free to.
[01:37:46]  We have a support.
[01:37:47]  Patreon.com.
[01:37:48]  There's a link over on FreezingPoint.com.
[01:37:49]  If you like the show, I love that people have been reaching out on Twitter.
[01:37:54]  It's great.
[01:37:55]  I love, I love hearing back from people.
[01:37:56]  And if you are so inclined, we could use Whatever donations you want to throw our way, because it takes a lot of time and this is not free, strictly speaking.
[01:38:05]  I have to pay for hosting and shit.
[01:38:06]  Yeah, it ain't cheap.
[01:38:08]  Nah.
[01:38:08]  So, anyway, thanks, guys.
[01:38:09]  We appreciate you listening.
[01:38:10]  I will catch you next time here in the brain battle.
[01:38:14]  But until then, I've been Bogle Jub, the White Mystery.
[01:38:17]  Now, please, did I miss a line?
[01:38:19]  Go out there and solve some mysteries.
[01:38:20]  No, I forgot about Boomtown.
[01:38:22]  Yeah.
[01:38:22]  Do it again.
[01:38:23]  I love the whole thing.
[01:38:24]  Guys, thanks for joining us in the brain battle.
[01:38:26]  I will catch you next time right here in Boomtown.
[01:38:28]  But until then, I've been Bogle Jub, the White Mystery.
[01:38:31]  Now, please, go out there and do your job, which is solving mysteries and loving somebody.
[01:38:44]  To think that's what they want you to think.
[01:38:50]  That matches what they want you to think.
[01:38:55]  That's what they want you to think.
[01:39:05]  To think conspiracies, Illuminati, people dying in elevators, bodies in water towers, Salem witch fucking trials.
[01:39:30]  They're killing women for being witches and all kinds of weird stuff.
[01:39:35]  Kids eating LSD in the bread, and don't forget the property.
[01:39:40]  That's what they want you to think.