This Past Weekend - Theo Von - #620 - Keith Peterson

Oct. 26, 2025 - This Past Weekend - Theo Von

01:27:21

#620 - Keith Peterson

“No Nonsense” Keith Peterson is a professional MMA referee known for his work in the UFC. He is also a diesel mechanic and a wrestling coach in New York. Keith joins Theo to talk about what’s going through the mind of a referee during a fight, his alter ego as a frontman in a hardcore band, and what he loves about coaching his daughter in wrestling. Keith Peterson: https://www.instagram.com/thereal.keith.peterson/ ------------------------------------------------ Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ Ethos: Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/THEO. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. Armra: Go to http://tryarmra.com/THEO or enter THEO to get 15% off your first order. Morgan and Morgan: Visit https://forthepeople.com/THEO to see if you might have a case. Morgan and Morgan. America's Largest Injury Law Firm. Symmetry Sauna: Go to http://symmetrysauna.com/THEO to learn more Ryl Tea: the tea that cleaned up its act and still tastes like the good old days. Refresh yourself now at www.drinkryl.com Perplexity AI: Ask anything at https://pplx.ai/theo and download their new web browser Comet at https://comet.perplexity.ai/ ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: tpwproducer@gmail.com Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Send mail to: This Past Weekend 1906 Glen Echo Rd PO Box #159359 Nashville, TN 37215 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Trevyn https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/ Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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	Today's guest is a true Renaissance man.
	He's a father.
	He's a MMA referee.
	He's a musician.
	And he's a mechanic.
	And he absolutely hates nonsense.
	Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. No-Nonsense Keith Peterson.
	I'm sitting here with the man, No-Nonsense Keith Peterson.
	Thanks for joining me, man.
	No problem.
	I got to ask you straight up, dude.
	Is there how much nonsense is allowed?
	In what?
	In fighting or life?
	What are your thoughts on nonsense?
	Because you got the name No Nonsense, right?
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	There's a time and place, I guess, right?
	But I think it, like, the no-nonsense thing is just, you know, my approach towards things.
	And, you know, John Anik gave me that nickname, and it kind of just stuck.
	And I think it fits, you know, but, you know, there's nonsense.
	It's like you'll allow a little.
	Okay, it depends.
	During the holidays.
	Yeah, yeah, I guess.
	Okay, okay.
	Maybe on your birthday, there's a little bit of nonsense allowed.
	Usually most of the things I do, I do very straightforward and, you know, no nonsense, I guess.
	Yeah, I've been involved in too much nonsense, and it gets a little hairy, that's for sure.
	Yeah, John Annick gave you that new name.
	When was that?
	Yeah, a few years ago.
	Yeah, we had a few conversations, and then I think on air, he said it, and it just seemed to take off and fit.
	Yeah.
	And I think it does fit.
	You know, nicknames are weird, but I've had a few.
	Yeah, what are some other ones you've had?
	When I was little, my nickname was Froggy from like the little rascals, the voice.
	Oh, yeah.
	The little guy with the voice.
	I've always had this voice.
	So, yeah, that was my nickname pretty much until I got older.
	Kind of grew up.
	Some people still call me that though.
	Yeah, the business colour getting up close to straight.
	And she came over because she wanted to play.
	Sounds insane.
	That fits, man.
	That fits.
	You're from New York.
	Long Island, yeah.
	Long Island, New York.
	And I originally lived in like East Meadow, Nassau County area.
	And now I live in Islip, New York.
	Icelit?
	And how did you get into referee and how'd that start for you?
	Well, I fought amateurs for a while and for about three years, all different fights, amateur level, MMA fights, Muay Tai fights, kickboxing.
	And then we had a lot going on.
	So it was getting harder and harder to put the time in.
	And someone just like, oh, why don't you judge or be an inspector at fights, at amateur fights or stuff like that?
	And I was like, okay, that sounds cool.
	I'll be, you know, still be at the fights.
	And then I went, took this course, and I was in New Jersey.
	And there was this old referee, Donny Caroli.
	He refed a bunch of my kickboxing MMA fights and stuff.
	Donnie Caroline?
	Yeah.
	He passed away a few years ago.
	And he was like, you'd be really good at reffing.
	You'd be really good at refing.
	So I got my chance to ref, you know, a few amateur fights and it kind of just took off from there.
	And he was pretty supportive during the amateur part of it.
	Were some of those early bouts tougher?
	Was it tougher to referee then?
	Like, is it something that gets easier over time?
	Yeah, I would always, I compare it to, and I don't know if it's a good comparison, but it would be like being a brain surgeon.
	Like, you're not going to be as good as you're going to be 10 years, but no one could die.
	Yeah.
	Pretty simple.
	And so you learn lots and lots of little things.
	So you're saying, so you're not going to be as good as you're going to be later, but as long as you don't let somebody die.
	Yeah, you got to stop the fight when it's supposed to be stopped.
	And then the rules, it all comes in as you go.
	Take me on like an early experience that was kind of like a lot for a referee.
	Yeah.
	So for me, my first like couple, like I remember my first or second time reffing, if I was really even, amateurs, really even.
	And then the kid was like, you know, losing pretty bad.
	And I was like, wow, this kid's losing pretty bad.
	You know, this fight should be stopped.
	And I was like, oh, no, that's me.
	And I stopped it.
	And then Kind of from there, you're like, Yeah, you're the one in there, you know, because it's you're up close and like you know, you have to adapt into a referee.
	Like, um, at first, you know, I come came out from fighting, so my mentality was like a fighter.
	Like, as a fighter, I didn't always agree with the referee, like, you know, oh, it's a good point.
	Cause as a fighter, you have a whole you're just doing your thing, and you know, especially, you know, at the high level, like this is, you know, it's their health, their lives, their livelihood, you know, and all the dedication in the world, you know, that it takes.
	So, you know, they're on a different journey that day than I am, you know, for sure.
	And are there fighters that will tell you they'll come up to you before about and say, like, this is like, do not do this or do this?
	You'll get, you know, do not.
	And then I just let them talk.
	And then I, you know, do my, you know, whatever my criteria is.
	I don't change it.
	You can't.
	No, you can't.
	You don't change it.
	Is there one fighter that's like, do not for anything?
	Like, is there somebody that's just like, let me go to the end of the road every time?
	Like, somebody that stands out?
	Because it's kind of.
	Like, this has been like, not to name any, but a lot, a lot of times when they say, don't stop this, they usually you end up stopping it.
	It's weird.
	Or they'll like tap or something.
	They'll like, you know, be like, well, you know, especially when they say, you know, oh, I'm willing to die or whatever.
	But some guys are just quiet and just, you know, that they're there to get the job done.
	And, you know, and as far as you know, it's like, as I said, a criteria, you know, let's say you've watched a lot of fights.
	Like, and when I'm refining, I'll say, like, you have to move.
	And if they fit that criteria, if they're defending and they can move, you know, it's a fight.
	My main thing, as I said, this, you know, they're putting their health on the line.
	My main thing is to have them fairly fight and, you know, help like them leaving and being able to fight again or whatever they want to do again, right?
	You know, be a family person.
	Like, there's a lot.
	Like, besides me being a parent myself, it's the most important thing I'll ever do.
	It's very important.
	And, you know, on the outside, it's just a fight, but a lot can happen, you know.
	So you're kind of like a safeguard.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, and it's like you're in there.
	And as I said, emotions from everywhere, right?
	Fighters, corners, people who are there to watch the fight from, you know, you get a different vibe from the people in the front row, from the people in the back row, right?
	So it's a very emotional.
	So really, I try to keep my emotions aside and, you know, just have the set thing of what I do each time.
	And, you know, everyone makes mistakes.
	No, I don't, that doesn't make them acceptable either.
	Like, you know, oh, everyone makes, and they do, and I do.
	But, you know, make a mistake, admit it, and learn from it and move on.
	Is there a fight that you've had to like, you were like, yeah, maybe that was a little early or that was, or I didn't read it correctly?
	I try not to read it totally into the early ones.
	I don't have many where I'm like, oh, that, that was late.
	I got, um, I'm lucky that I don't really have one where I'm like, wow, that's not what I'm here to do.
	So that, that I'm lucky.
	But, you know, to know, as you get more experience, you know.
	Like, you'll know when even like sometimes someone be like, ah, I think that was a little early.
	And you'll know right in your head, it wasn't a little early.
	Like, because you're there right next to them.
	So, you know, you hear all the sounds.
	That's a good idea.
	Yeah, you're right there.
	I mean, you're right there.
	You're the closest person to it.
	You can feel a different energy than we can.
	Yes.
	And even cameras, I've done, you know, because I look at my work when I'm done with it and I've watched five different angles.
	And like, usually the only angle, like there's one angle that I'm like, oh, that's what I saw.
	Yeah.
	And the other angles, the kind of maybe a little bit.
	And then there's one, like closest to where my eyes are and they are.
	Where you're like, oh, that's what I saw.
	You ever go back and like with your lady make love to a fight or watch one or something like that?
	Like that, you know what I'm saying?
	Watch a like watch your work type of thing.
	Like a thing, you know, people will like watch their oh, like watch it, you know, just to say, wow, I did great.
	Yeah.
	No, I don't look at the ones I think I did good.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	What uh, tell me a little bit about your life outside of work.
	So I know you're in a band.
	I remember you telling me about it one time.
	Yeah, I was in I was in two bands.
	It was my first band started in 1998.
	And then my other one, we've been around a pretty long time, too.
	What's that band called?
	The first one was called GFY.
	And the second one's Loser Sometimes Win.
	And they're like New York hardcore bands.
	Hardcore.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Nice.
	And what do you kind of model the?
	What is GFY for?
	No, go fuck yourself.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah.
	I was younger than.
	Yeah.
	Oh, that shit was fun, huh?
	Dude, where did you guys play?
	How'd you guys get started?
	Long Island guys.
	And we met, you know, like a music scene.
	Yeah.
	And we met, I was like, oh, we'll start something.
	And then we just started it.
	And were you singing?
	Were you playing an instrument?
	I sing.
	You did?
	So that voice, as part of it, was that one of the reasons you even got into singing just because your voice was kind of different?
	It just happens to be that my voice kind of fit the hardcore thing, but I liked hardcore way before that.
	But kind of like I started listening to hardcore punk rock music when I was really young.
	But yeah, I was just into like, I got into heavy metal and like Black Sabbath and all that.
	And then when I started hitting my early teens, I wanted to find something that kind of like fit more of where I was and more like working's man, like street music and stuff.
	So that's, I found hardcore and just fell in love with it from then.
	And, you know, I'm still still, that's what I listen to.
	I listen to all every, you know, not everything, actually.
	I don't like people who say they listen to everything, but I listen to a lot of types of music.
	Let's take a gander at some of it.
	Let's take an ear gander here at a little bit of it.
	Play that second one actually.
	I like Till I Die.
	I like Till I Die.
	Yeah, I like that.
	Yeah.
	Dialy noises
	You come in on this?
	Yeah, I think right after the instant intro.
	Who the hell are you?
	We came to wreck everything and ruin your life.
	God save us.
	Yeah, that's my...
	There's two singers in this band.
	Yeah, bro.
	I like it.
	You always want that.
	That vibe is a pure vibe, dude.
	That was like, that's like one type of culture, that whole energy.
	And it's like silly, too.
	Like the intro of that is the death march, right?
	And it was like Halloween, and I pressed this thing, and that's what it was like, dang, ding, dan, ding, ding, dan, din.
	So I went to my guys.
	I'm like, oh, play the death march.
	Yeah.
	And there you go.
	What are the ladies like that would come to the that come to those shows?
	That's how I met my wife.
	Really?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh, that's pretty good.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's it.
	So from right before the band started or whatever, I met her.
	And then where did you meet her at?
	Like, take me to that.
	At the band Hate Breed at a Hate Breed show.
	Hate Breed?
	Yeah.
	Bring them up.
	They're famous.
	And are they out of New York?
	No, Connecticut.
	They're famous now.
	They play huge shows.
	Yeah, I think I've heard their name before.
	And so were you guys just like, were you at the concession stand or were you just like kind of like in the concession stand?
	But it's just tongue-piercings and vodka at it.
	Yeah, where'd you meet her at?
	At the show and just, you know, whatever, the dancing, what do you call it?
	The mosh pit, whatever.
	And yeah, and we just met and that was that.
	Dude, those pits are fun.
	Kind of, if you can coordinate the pits, do you ever do that when you're on stage?
	Where you like, all right, everybody to this side and this side?
	And then you make a merge.
	Like, I was at a Suicide Boys show not long ago.
	And there's probably a lot more people at that show than my shows.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But they'll do this thing where it's like this kind of controlled thing.
	But Mosh Pits used to be pretty sick.
	The Wall of Death.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	When there's a big crowd, those are cool looking.
	Yeah, shit.
	It's dope, dude.
	Yeah.
	Hunker Man that does that really good with Seth is sick of it all.
	They do a good wall of death.
	Sick of it all?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I'm not familiar with them.
	I think I'm not familiar with as much of that genre of music.
	When I was growing up, like we had like a brother's friend, like my brother's friends, they had a band that was like that.
	And so like being the younger brother, we go, you know, just try to get involved and stuff.
	But there was always this kind of like, I think in our area, it was kind of fringe a little bit just because they wouldn't have as many people that listen to that type of music.
	Yeah, in New York, it's, you know, even though it has its ups and downs, but like at one point you had like CBGB's was like the home, you know, and stuff like that.
	And you had lots of clubs.
	And so it's.
	Would you go there when you were growing up?
	CBGB?
	Yeah, that's really where I went mostly.
	And then I ended up playing there in both bands a few times.
	Yeah.
	Bring it up.
	CBGB.
	CBGB was a legendary New York City music club in the Bowery district founded by Hilly Crystal.
	In 1973, they became a crucial incubator for the American punk and new wave rock movements, though it was initially intended for country bluegrass and blues music, which the CBGB, oh, I didn't realize that.
	Name stands for Country Bluegrass Blues.
	The unglamorous gritty venue hosted influential bands like the Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads, and Patty Smith Group before closing in 2006.
	Wow.
	So do you remember who'd you go see there?
	Oh, yeah.
	Like New York bands like Sick of It All and Gnostic Front.
	Pretty much like once you kind of get into that, then it's all friends bands.
	They get to play.
	They play there.
	You go.
	Like we played there a few times.
	It was like Sundays, you know, you'd go to, that's where you go, take the train and go to a show.
	And then there's, at the time, it was like a bunch of clubs and, you know, great clubs there.
	And, you know, being young, you could just go, you know, at one point you can go three or four shows a week.
	Yeah.
	So, and so that became like main focus for a pretty long time.
	Did you have like a routine before you got on stage with your band?
	Did you have any?
	Yeah.
	You know, like I would just stand like selling shirts or stand behind the distro and kind of get ready and just get on and go.
	It's not my, you know, like, I don't even, you know, I think it's good, but like anyone could do it.
	Well, what I was doing.
	Just get on and if you love it, you just start screaming, I guess.
	Yeah.
	But yeah.
	I like the raw energy of it all is really what I still love.
	And I don't get to go to shows as much anymore, but my son's really involved.
	My son's in three bands.
	Oh, wow.
	So he's really involved in that.
	So, but I still love the whole culture.
	Yeah, it almost seems like there's some correlation there between like the intensity, right?
	Of that and MMA.
	Yeah, there is.
	Definitely, definitely.
	Yeah, it's like, it's almost like when the pedal is pressed all the way down in a car and you're going at that.
	Yeah.
	Like there's that.
	I was actually really surprised when I started referencing events that were on TV, how many guys at the hardcore scene were into MMA and knew like, you know, the events and stuff.
	There is a connection, you know, with jiu-jitsu and hardcore teams, a lot of guys that roll.
	But with, you know, with the UFC, with all that stuff, like, you know, oh, they knew everything about it.
	I was pretty surprised.
	But it makes sense.
	Yeah, it does.
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	Where'd you take your wife on your light girl's first date?
	Do you remember?
	I think we went to the diner.
	Yeah.
	Something like that.
	Yeah, cheese fries or something.
	That's what I'm talking about.
	I don't think about some of those fancy dates.
	I'm about to cheese fry a woman and see what happens.
	I need a wife with the brown gravy.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	That's the ticket.
	Was she in a band or was she?
	No, she wasn't in a band.
	Just, you know, like, she liked ska music.
	Oh, yeah.
	And back then, like Long Island, they would have, you know, bands would play hardcore bands and ska bands would play on the same bill.
	And then she just ended up being a big fan of hardcore music, too.
	What differentiates ska?
	Ska has got the definition, but it's got a lot saxophones and stuff and the horn section.
	Usually, I never really thought about that.
	I've always wondered ska music is a lively genre originated in Jamaica in the 1950s, blending elements of Caribbean, calypso, American jazz, and rhythm and blues.
	A walking bass line with strong accents on the offbeat played by guitar piano known as the skank, fast tempos and energetic melodies.
	Let me see.
	In Jamaica, ska was popular among working-class rude boys.
	Rude boy.
	While in the UK, skinheads adopted the genre during the two-tone era as a form of working-class solidarity.
	Huh?
	It's pretty cool.
	How long have you guys been married now?
	Is it your 23 years?
	What's been the key to a long marriage?
	Do you feel like?
	Like, how's that been?
	How's that road been?
	Wow, awesome.
	The whole that part amazing.
	Marriage, kids, I love.
	That's my number one thing.
	And it's been good.
	I would lie, you know, lies say easy, but good, good, real good.
	You think you chose a good partner?
	Oh, yeah.
	No, definitely.
	Yeah.
	What makes her pretty great, do you feel like?
	I don't know.
	I guess the smart answer would be everything.
	But she's Italian?
	She's Algernianian and Italian.
	Oh, yeah, boy.
	Keep you on your toes.
	Yeah, yeah.
	It definitely is.
	And yeah.
	You know, as far as like us parenting together and stuff like that, it's just perfectly like very good.
	Works out really good.
	You know, like certain things I'm good at help her.
	Certain things she's good at helps me.
	Mostly what she's good at helps me.
	She keeps it definitely going.
	She's the one that keeps it going, yeah.
	By a lot.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	For sure, man.
	What was it like when you guys decided to have kids?
	Was that like a scary choice or was it something you guys were just both excited about?
	Was it scary for you kind of to become a dad?
	Like, what was your relationship with your dad like?
	Mine's good.
	Both of my parents.
	Good.
	But, yeah, I don't think I was nervous.
	I do know, like, when our first son was born, I kind of looked and it was like, real deal now.
	Like, you're like holding him.
	You're like, all right, like, this guy depends on me for everything.
	Like, everything, you know?
	So you're like, all right, I got to get it together.
	I got to make sure, you know, and I had it together, but I got to make sure that I do this right.
	You know, and, you know, obviously, just like we said before, you make mistakes with things.
	But like, my goal is to, you know, raise, I have three kids and, you know, raise them to be good people without having to try, if that makes any sense.
	No, like, guys like us like, oh, trying to do the right thing.
	I want my kids to just be able to do the right thing without having to try, which probably impossible.
	But if you shoot for that goal, you know, it's good.
	It's a good thing.
	Yeah.
	So.
	Yeah.
	I don't have any experience parenting, but I think it's something that I start to look forward to more and more.
	And I do think it's something that like kind of gets you into a new phase of life, right?
	Like, oh, yeah, definitely.
	I feel like I've been in this same phase of life sometimes for a while, kind of like, but I don't have another phase yet.
	You know, it's like I don't have a wife or family yet, you know?
	Sometimes people will be like, dude, you got to grow up.
	And I'm like, to what do what?
	Like, what?
	What do you want me to just go sit in a like rock and turn something?
	Like, what do you want me to do?
	You know what I'm saying?
	I want to enjoy my life.
	Even with my kids, it's been different.
	Like, my 23-year-old is like really into the hardcore scene because when he was born, I was still very into that.
	Still played shows.
	Still, you know, did you know, went to shows.
	My friends would come over.
	That's all we would play in the backyard for barbecues.
	So like he's really into that.
	And then, you know, my daughter, it's wrestling, wrestling, wrestling.
	Oh, she loves it.
	Yeah.
	And because by the time, you know, she was getting older.
	She's 19 and she was getting older.
	That's what my older guy was doing.
	We were into the wrestling thing.
	So, and then that, you know, my 14-year-old just wrestling, wrestling, and skateboarding.
	He's into skateboarding.
	So, you know, he's pretty good.
	Oh, there's your children right there.
	Yeah, that's them.
	Let's go, Keith.
	That's awesome.
	That's my son with the rancid shirt on.
	And that's his girlfriend.
	That's my youngest one.
	And my daughter's at the end.
	Dude, congratulations, bro.
	That's so cool, man.
	That's cool.
	That's so cool.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, there's something just special about that, about seeing a man and his family, you know.
	You look like you've lost weight since then, huh?
	Yeah, I've lost a good amount of weight.
	Have you?
	Are you taking the peptides?
	No, I just stopped eating horribly.
	And I'm running every day.
	And just, you know, like I wasn't eating well, I don't think.
	So what were you eating?
	Everything.
	Everything.
	Did you have one snack like at night?
	What was that snack that got you at night?
	Like what?
	Three gallons of ice cream or something.
	Like I was eating a lot.
	Really?
	Like, I guess it was gradual.
	So people didn't realize, but I'm not the biggest guy in the world.
	And I weigh like 186 pounds.
	It's a lot.
	And so I slowly, you know, even though since I've been losing the weight, people, oh, he's sick or he lost too much weight or whatever.
	But you can never make people happy.
	You're fat, you're skinny, you know, you're short, which I can't make myself taller.
	So I don't understand that comment.
	Yeah, get taller.
	You're fucking or whatever.
	Yeah.
	It's like, what do you mean?
	They didn't even hear I'm closer to the fight.
	Yeah.
	You have a big head.
	All right.
	And I didn't choose to have a big head.
	So let me get this nail file.
	Yeah.
	So like things, but I feel good.
	I love that I've lost the weight.
	You know, I'm trying to put some muscle on.
	Did you have a health scare or anything like that?
	No, I wanted to be healthy.
	You know, a few things were going and not so much with me, but around me.
	And I was like, you know, I want to make sure I'm healthier.
	What do you mean, like a few things were going?
	Like a few people have passed away.
	Oh, you saw people having the effects of not being healthy.
	Yeah.
	And just, you know, even, you know, some of them healthy, but just, I guess, not lucky.
	So I'm like, got to give yourself the best chance, right?
	Yeah.
	Sometimes you got to meet God halfway, you know.
	Yeah.
	And it's never going to be perfect.
	But, you know, like I saw this barbecue place.
	I don't know where I am.
	I'm eating some fried alligator later for sure.
	Yeah.
	For sure.
	Hell yeah.
	Yeah, they got some good stuff around here, man.
	The food scene's been getting better here in Nashville as the city's been growing, too.
	What about like, did you ever, did you struggle over the years with any addiction stuff?
	Are you, did you drink?
	No, I, well, I drank, but I wasn't necessarily like struggle and addiction.
	I couldn't remember if you told me that one time.
	I don't drink anymore, really.
	But I never, never really even tried drugs.
	It was never kind of like, I wrestled all the way through.
	Oh, that'll keep you clean.
	And, you know, so I wasn't the greatest ever, but I was really into it.
	And, you know, kind of kept me whatever.
	I was wild enough without drugs.
	You're a drug.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Something already in there.
	You know what I mean?
	Yeah.
	You already got a half a gram of songs.
	I'm stuck in the back.
	Yeah, never, was never attracted to you.
	Wow.
	That's wild because I think people would look at you and probably think something like that.
	Yeah, probably, I would guess.
	And people, I mean, me too.
	In the music scene that I'm in, a lot of guys just, you know, probably you would think, oh, that guy's on drugs, but they're just on whatever.
	It's who they are.
	So, but I guess that, you know, even these days of tattoos and stuff, you would think, oh, that guy's, but are you fully tattooed?
	What do you I have sleeves, you know, sleeves, and my back's almost done and stuff like that.
	Wow.
	I have whatever.
	For some reason, I got my hands in my neck like real fast.
	I was young, though, like 22.
	Oh, okay.
	So these have been there for a while.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I don't dislike him.
	Yeah.
	No, it's cool.
	It's definitely an energy.
	I mean, you seem like, you know, like, yeah, you're like, you're the no-nonsense guy.
	So it's like, you know, you've, I think you kind of look a little bit like there's not a lot of nonsense allowed here.
	Yeah, I guess.
	You know, so it's kind of wild that you almost grew into that.
	Yeah.
	You know what I'm saying?
	You kind of met, you kind of lived your life and then met that name right again.
	Yeah, it's kind of, yeah.
	That's just like, you know, I kind of mind my own business.
	I always have, you know, I'm always, you know, and it just like, you know, I treat people the way that I want to be treated, which most of the time is left alone.
	Right.
	I'm nice to, you know, I'm nice to kids, old people, and animals.
	Keep moving on.
	Yeah.
	What else can you ask out of the citizen?
	That's it, right?
	I think that's fair.
	Yeah.
	I think that's fair.
	Yeah, I'd love to see you working at a pet and zoo or something like that, dude, being like the operator or something.
	I could have seen you working at like whenever like the carnival would come to town when I was a kid.
	Yeah, I would definitely probably be a good carnie, right?
	Yeah, dude.
	But only on the like the ride, it was the Gravatron where they had the dude in the middle that did the music.
	Yes, I love that, right?
	So I thought something's right.
	They would spin that hanging on.
	Awesome Gravitron story.
	It was, it was actually, I know the date.
	It was April 19th, 1985.
	This place local near me.
	It's called Adventure Land.
	And they had Gravitron and the Van Hallen album, 5150, just came out.
	And they played that song, Why Can't This Be Love?
	Like a hundred times.
	Me and my brother went on it like 80 times in a row.
	And we just kept going.
	And then like I would find, I was, yeah, it was a, it was my ninth birthday, I think.
	And it was for my birthday.
	That's why I remember the date.
	And the like you'd go and they had the rules, right, of every single thing.
	And like every single one, I'd break one of them.
	My brother would be like, stop, stop, stop.
	Kick off my shoe and it come back at you.
	You know, yeah, I remember that.
	That's crazy.
	The Gravitron was like my favorite.
	Fuck yeah, dude.
	And that was like where, because that's, dude, at that time period, like when we would go, yeah, I was like 11, 12 or something like that.
	And you get in there and the dude who ran it would be like this kind of like rock like a guy that shouldn't be running.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Like, dude, somebody who dropped this guy came into here.
	Somebody hired him.
	Yeah.
	And it almost looked like this thing came from like outer space.
	Yeah.
	And they built it around him.
	Yes.
	And the ramp would close up and it would be this dude who kind of looked like slash from Guns N' Roses.
	And then, and it would, you'd slide up against that wall and you couldn't even like, you could barely even move.
	But every now and then you could like get your arm out and like just force it.
	So the more you went on it, the more your body got like used to it.
	You hear it go upside down and it's, you know, and stuff like that.
	Oh, damn.
	I didn't know people got used to it.
	Sideways.
	Oh, shit.
	Look at that.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Like standing there.
	Yeah.
	That's pretty brave there.
	See, I'm the other one.
	See the one where the guy's facing the thing.
	Yeah, facing the wall.
	Yeah, the dude who would try to turn over and then just didn't have enough energy to get back over.
	That would be me.
	Just humping the edge of the Gravitron.
	Bodies like split.
	Dude, that shit was cool, though.
	There was just something.
	That guy looks like a normal guy there.
	Amazing.
	The guy running it there.
	Yeah, that guy's an op, dude.
	That guy's not fucking real, dude.
	That guy's a narc, probably.
	But, but, dude, that shit was so.
	The whole idea of them not spinning and you're spinning always like got me.
	Like, I would always like ask for explanation.
	Like, he looks like he's spinning too.
	Yeah.
	Dude, did you have who influenced that music in you when you were a kid?
	Because I remember like my brother would listen to like Dio Lock Up the Wolves.
	Yeah.
	He would listen to some like, like skinny puppy, maybe I think was a band as well.
	Like nothing too crazy, but like kind of a little bit of mainstream edge.
	Yeah.
	Skinny puppies.
	Yeah.
	Good.
	The, you know, the metal stuff, like, I kind of like just grab it, you know, like short.
	And I was like, I thought the guys would like the cutoff sleeves and the long hair, even though I've never had long hair.
	I was like, oh, ever?
	Damn.
	Some in the front, like in the mid-90s, I had like that skater haired thing.
	Somebody make us a couple of put together a few memes of somebody out there who knows how to do it of no nonsense with some long hair.
	Just so we have them for the future.
	We'll throw a couple of them in.
	Or we'll put this clip online and put a couple of them in.
	I'd love to see that.
	Yeah, dude, I can't believe you didn't even try it.
	Yeah, no.
	And then just that whole era.
	And then like my brother, as he was going, he started listening to like the different metal, but like Van Halen and, you know, stuff like that.
	So we kind of got Martley Crew.
	My first ever concert was Poison.
	I went with my brother.
	He was a few years older.
	So I went, and then my second one was Martley True.
	Oh, dude, that's so sick, bro.
	On Dr. Feelgood tour.
	Oh my God, I got that.
	Yeah, we've had Tommy Lee on here.
	Awesome.
	Yeah, that's crazy.
	That's crazy.
	So that tour, he played like up on the ceiling.
	And he just like did like even, I think it was like ACDC, like cover songs and just like went across the ceiling.
	It's pretty cool.
	And your brother took you to that?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So you guys were pretty close.
	Yeah, we were.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Nice.
	Does he play music?
	No, he actually passed away like a year and a half ago.
	Oh, man.
	So, yeah, young at like 50.
	Oh.
	So, yeah.
	But what was he?
	Was he suffering from something?
	No, he had tumors, but he didn't know or didn't take care of.
	I'm not sure which one.
	But he, so he went to the hospital on a Tuesday.
	He died on Friday.
	So it was real fast.
	Real fast.
	Did you get to see him in between the two?
	I was there the whole time.
	You were?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh, man.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, yeah.
	What was that like?
	I mean, I hate to ask you.
	Not good.
	Yeah, sorry.
	So, no, exactly.
	Fuck, it's not the most thoughtful question.
	I'm sorry that happened, man.
	Yeah.
	But so.
	I bet he was super proud of you, huh?
	Yeah.
	So how, yeah.
	So how things work is like, this stuff's going to happen to all of us, unfortunately.
	Yeah.
	Bad stuff, right?
	So the way I feel is how are you going to handle those moments?
	So I believe at that moment, it was handled as perfect as it possibly could.
	What makes you say that?
	Well, you know, in a room of people, the room was full of people who he loved and they loved him.
	You know, he wasn't married.
	He didn't have kids.
	So my kids were like his kids.
	And so they're surrounded, you know, surrounded by his parents.
	And it's as good as that could happen.
	You know what I mean?
	And so, you know, I don't know.
	Like, my brother was the nervous guy.
	He didn't seem nervous at that point.
	So I don't know.
	You know what I mean?
	That's, yeah, much is weird.
	That's kind of interesting.
	I'll probably be crying like a baby.
	But yeah, he handled it.
	The world is kind of nerve-wracking.
	It is.
	Think about it.
	Yeah.
	So that's how, like, he was always nervous.
	And I never was nervous about anything when we were kids.
	And even crossing the street, I'd run and he'd be screaming.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So we were really, really, really close.
	It was like me and him.
	My mom worked most of the time, two jobs and stuff.
	So it was me and him.
	And we were total opposite.
	Like, even growing up, like, I got into like the metal music first.
	He would listen to like Cultural Club and like Tears for Fears.
	Just different.
	And then he got into the rock and roll stuff.
	And but, you know, he was a comedian.
	He was in school.
	He was in the drama club and stuff.
	And I was in sports.
	So we were totally different, but like the same, I guess.
	Did you kind of feel like his protector sometimes in some ways?
	Well, he was older than me.
	But yeah, I was definitely, and, you know, sometimes you got that gritty brother who's just fucking, you know, I was definitely that.
	Yeah.
	But it was weird how he balanced it.
	Like he, as I said, he was nervous and had major anxiety.
	But like we were so different.
	It just, but it fit like perfect.
	Like our relationship was like good.
	Yeah.
	Really good.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	What was his name?
	Rob.
	Rob.
	Yeah.
	Nice, man.
	Rob Peterson?
	Yes, sir.
	Oh.
	Well, hello, Rob.
	Nice to meet you through your brother.
	And hope you guys are having a good time out there, wherever you are.
	Whatever you're doing.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, for sure.
	Did he get to come see you, referee?
	He never saw me, referee.
	What?
	Actually, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So, I guess a lot of times you don't go watch somebody work.
	Yeah.
	But he came to see me fight.
	Actually, I have a pretty funny.
	So I was fighting for a title, amateur title in Atlantic City.
	And him and his brother.
	Was this one of your biggest fights?
	Yeah.
	It was like my, I think it was my first amateur title fight.
	So it was a big deal.
	And it was actually, no, I was actually defending it.
	I took a fight on short notice.
	I bumped up a weight and I lost.
	So now I was fighting the same kid, but at our weight for the title.
	He was going to take my title, whatever.
	So my brother and his buddies come, and I guess they're doing their thing pretty early.
	And they're going, you know, Atlantic City and having fun.
	And then I come, and as I say, he's really a nervous guy.
	And he's standing in like the out of the hall, but the cage is right there.
	And he's like staring at the cage.
	And he looks like he's sweating.
	And I said to him, I'm like, yo, what's up, Robbie?
	And I'm right behind him.
	And he's like, oh, my God, you know, fighting.
	And, you know, you're getting older.
	You have kids and whatever.
	And the ring girls walk by.
	And I go, hey, Robbie, you see the ring goes.
	He goes, he goes, I'm not that nervous.
	Of course, I've seen the ring goes.
	It was pretty funny.
	So I go on fine.
	It was pretty funny.
	And then I won the fight.
	We went out.
	It was a really good great night, too.
	Oh, I remember it being really, really awesome.
	So you had an amateur belt.
	A few, yeah, a few.
	I won that one.
	Did you have a nickname when you were a fighter then?
	Short lived the Spartan.
	Yeah.
	So like we were watching 300 or something, and someone said something like because he was just fighting, hanging out with his wife and playing with his kids.
	And they're like, oh, that's kind of like you.
	I was like, oh, I'll go with that Spartan.
	Yeah.
	I saw where you fought one guy three times.
	Yeah.
	Jose Villa Nueva.
	Yeah.
	What was that?
	Was that because that was like a trilogy, I guess?
	Yeah.
	What did that feel like?
	Was that part of that same thing?
	Yeah, that was part of it.
	Oh, it was.
	Yeah.
	So you guys were 1-1?
	He ended up winning two.
	He ended up winning two.
	We went back up a week and he won two.
	Did you feel like you could go back up?
	You're like, I got him here.
	I can go back up there and get him.
	Or what was that like?
	I don't know.
	I can't remember.
	I'm trying to think.
	Like, I think back then.
	Did you have something against the guy?
	Oh, no.
	But I think back then, you know, it was still kind of the amateur scene is just kind of growing.
	With MMA.
	And yeah.
	And he was good.
	And I was good.
	And he was competitive.
	So we went, you know, probably, you know, I was trying to fight some other guys in between.
	So I was kickboxing and fighting more Thai fights too.
	But no, nothing against him.
	I actually refed him a bunch of times after.
	Oh, that's pretty cool.
	Yeah.
	Oh, this is part of that bout.
	Yeah, I think this is the one.
	So this is the one I bumped up and I fought on three days notice.
	I lose the first one.
	I lose this one.
	Yeah.
	Keith, that's dope, bro.
	You're in there.
	It's weird that the ones I went on on here.
	And that's the guy, Donny Kylie.
	That's him.
	That's the referee.
	Yeah, that's the guy who got me into refing.
	Wow, that's cool.
	My first, yeah, my first.
	That's good defense right there, man.
	Yeah, I know how to wrestle a little bit, but my first, I think he does take me down, but I pop up.
	And basically, what happens is, oh, look at that, bro.
	Go back.
	Let's see a little bit of that freaking.
	Yeah.
	You were loving that shit, huh?
	What happens is I miss a backfist, but I think if I hit it, he'd probably still be asleep, but I miss it and kind of get slammed on my head and move on from there.
	He submits me.
	That's cool, man.
	Yeah.
	Those fights were good.
	They were fun.
	And he was a good guy.
	And as I said, I refed him after, and even in his pro career.
	That's pretty cool.
	Well, it's cool that you refed him after, and that the referee's the guy that got you.
	Yeah, and it's just a lot of connections.
	It's so amazing, man, about life.
	If you're able to stay, kind of, as you're saying, healthy enough, right?
	If you're able to take care of yourself mentally enough to stay, you don't even have to stay in the center lane.
	You can veer off a little bit.
	But if you're able to stay, so many of the pieces of our past kind of really connect and make the future make sense.
	For sure.
	Definitely.
	I've had in the last couple of years, I've had so many moments like that.
	It's crazy.
	Yeah.
	So anyone that stands out?
	Well, so my first couple of years in high school, I didn't do so well.
	And I ended up doing pretty well.
	Like, what do you mean didn't do so well?
	Like in school?
	In school.
	Yeah.
	So did you not like it?
	Yeah, I guess.
	In like ninth grade, I didn't really do very well.
	People were like, were like, were you like fighting with other kids?
	No, not so much.
	You know, back then, kids fought more often than they do now for sure.
	But I just didn't, you know, I guess the whole punk rock feel, like not listening to authority.
	Yeah, something like that.
	But so I didn't do so well.
	And I went to East Medal High School, didn't do so well there.
	And then, you know, I ended up going to a few different high schools.
	We moved a bunch of times.
	And so it didn't end well.
	And then did you graduate?
	No, I got, oh, yeah, I graduated high school.
	I went to college for a year.
	And then I started, I'm a diesel mechanic for the town I live in.
	I've been there 28 years.
	Are you still a diesel mechanic?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Are you in the union?
	Yeah.
	Oh, wow.
	What union are you in?
	Now, USP, we change a lot.
	But when I first started there, we were Teamsters.
	That was pretty cool.
	I thought the idea of being a Teamster was cool.
	Yeah, we had Sean O'Brien in.
	He worked with the Teamsters.
	He was Teamster's president.
	I'm not sure if he still is.
	But so we've learned a little bit about unions over the years.
	I didn't know anything about him until we had him in, you know?
	Yeah, that's the whole union job's awesome.
	I'm able to do what I do and stuff that I want to do and branch out.
	Wow.
	So you've been a diesel mechanic this whole time.
	Yeah.
	How'd you get into that?
	I decided college wasn't for me.
	My dad's like, well, working is get a good job.
	So got a job like back then when you left college, you were off your parents' benefits right after that.
	It wasn't like now where it's to 26.
	So I needed a job.
	I was roofing and I think I broke a rib or something.
	And I, you know, my dad was like, you need a job with insurance.
	And if you get hurt, you know, you get paid.
	And so I found this town job and I started the highway for a little while, like nine months.
	And then I got into the mechanic shop and that was that.
	You started working on the highway?
	Yeah.
	So like, you know, mowing the lawns and stuff on the highway.
	Oh, wow.
	You ever find anything cool out there?
	No.
	Damn.
	Garbage that you have to pick up.
	That's it.
	I always want to find a body out there.
	So, like, a dead body.
	Long Island has a bunch of them on the highways.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Or semi-living.
	I'll find, you know, I'm saying I hope they're alive, but yeah.
	I could totally be fine with not finding a dead body.
	Yeah.
	Definitely.
	I'm good.
	Yeah.
	Tomato tomato.
	A body part or something, maybe.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Foot.
	Just a thumbs up.
	Yeah, thumbs up.
	That'd be kind of cool.
	Yeah.
	Sounds like you're finding an emoji.
	Yeah.
	Just like that.
	That'd be cool.
	Sean O'Brien is still the general president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters as of October 2025.
	Did you have a mentor that taught you how to be a diesel mechanic or how?
	No, no, no, kind of like on the job learning.
	I did have, you know, there were older guys there that were really good.
	And kind of like if, you know, if I, you know, if I can't fix it, I could break it even more, you know, just keep going.
	And then from there, you know.
	And did you teach your kids any of those kind of skills?
	Yeah, a little bit.
	You know, like the normal skills.
	Like, you know, like I actually, you know, there's kids that don't know how to change a flat tire these days.
	I've had a few of that.
	My kids know how to change flat tires and my daughter knows how to change flat tire.
	Yeah.
	You know, stuff like that.
	And my younger guy is the one that seems to be the one that's going to be working with his hands.
	My older guy's a chef, but so he works with his hands just differently.
	But I hope his hands aren't dirty when he's working.
	But yeah, my younger guy seems to be, you know, maybe do some mechanic program moving forward.
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	So take us on the journey of how you get into working with the UFC.
	So I started reffing.
	And so each one, you know, his commissions.
	And I started refinging first in New Jersey.
	And then Pennsylvania got sanctioned.
	And it's a really big state.
	So I got a lot of work there.
	And I was working, putting in a lot of time there.
	And I think a few months into being sanctioned, they had a show, UFC 101, in Philadelphia.
	And you went to the fight?
	No, I worked.
	I ref that one.
	That's my first one was 101.
	Bring that up.
	Bring that card up.
	I ref the first two fights.
	Wow.
	What was that like that first day?
	I mean, did you have your own kind of green room?
	Was it a little bit different?
	What was that?
	Just know like.
	But you had to be so excited.
	But how did you get in?
	I was actually so excited I didn't even know how to get in.
	So I've never gone to a venue without a ticket, right?
	So I didn't ask them.
	I didn't ask what I needed.
	And I got there and realized how I did in.
	So now I know.
	You had to have your credential, obviously.
	And I ended up getting it.
	But now I know how that works.
	But you just try to come into the ticket.
	No, I just got there and I was in the parking lot and was like, how am I getting in?
	I don't have a ticket.
	Yeah.
	So, yeah.
	So that was, you know, 2009.
	So who were the other referees?
	Do you remember on the card?
	Maybe the same guys as now?
	There's some, I think, some, but still now.
	Maybe Mark Goddard.
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	Actually, I believe that was Mark Goddard's first time reffing in the States, I believe.
	Or UFC in the States or something like that.
	Wow.
	So yes, he was on that card.
	BJ Penn.
	Wow, that's amazing.
	Dude.
	That's Forrest Griffin.
	Yep.
	It was Anderson Silver versus Forrest Griffin.
	So it was a while now, I guess, right?
	Yeah.
	Was there a fighter that you refed for early before he got to the UFC that you saw like in amateurs and stuff?
	Yeah, a bunch of them, like Paul Felder.
	Yeah, Paul's the best.
	Yeah.
	He's fearless.
	It's awesome.
	Could you tell them when you were seeing all that?
	Yeah, he's different level.
	Al Quinta, different level, tough.
	Yeah.
	There's been a good amount over the years that you see in the local stuff and you ref and then you refer them in the UFC, which is pretty cool.
	That's pretty cool for them and for me.
	Yeah, for sure.
	Like for them that they're there.
	Not that I'm there.
	I don't think they really care about that.
	But yeah, for me, it's like, wow.
	Yeah, I'm a part of something.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Like we're all on this journey.
	We're on the same journey in a way.
	Yeah.
	As I said, you know, it's like, besides, you know, my family stuff, it's the most important thing that I'm going to end up doing.
	You know, and to see, you know, you think about it, you ref them in the local scene and they're healthy enough to get there.
	Right.
	And, you know, you think, you know, you have something to do with that.
	That's a good point.
	You know, so.
	Was there ever a fighter that you remember that stood out that something happened in amateurs and they didn't make it like someone that really stood out over the years?
	Well, there's a lot of ones that you would say, oh, this guy is going to be and they don't, you know, it's a tough sport.
	Right.
	So, and anyone that comes to mind that kind of like that you not particularly name-wise, but there's been guys where you're like, oh, wow, you know, sky's the limit.
	And then they just, you know, for whatever injury, or it's hard, you know, like we were saying, you talk about having kids and stuff.
	I think, you know, once you start having kids and stuff, the guys that have these families and they train like that, you know how much dedication that takes and sacrifice?
	Like a lot.
	And women, you know, who do the same.
	Like the men and women who do that, it takes a lot, a lot to do.
	So, you know, at that level.
	Yeah.
	Oh, when you see a guy going away like to a camp for six weeks, eight weeks, 10 weeks to get ready.
	And a lot of times they're going to be away from their family.
	Maybe their family will come and visit on the weekends and stuff because, you know, there's only a few places in America where it's like kind of premier training.
	And then you could go into the bout and lose in the first round.
	Or, you know, it's like it could end in 30 seconds.
	Yeah.
	That's like training for the Olympics, you know, taking lasts, right?
	You cannot train at all, take last.
	Yeah.
	Training for your whole life.
	You know, so that's what makes it, you know, cool in a way, too.
	That's the that's why like when I go to the fights and you know, I like to go early.
	I just because I'm like, this is like this is their life, right?
	Yeah, I know you're getting to witness a piece of somebody's life.
	Like they, they, they mean this.
	Yeah.
	90.
	If they're at that level, they mean this so much that to even be in the presence of something like that, I think gives me energy.
	It's like I'm showing up to watch an eclipse almost, something so rare, you know?
	Yeah.
	Are there fighters when they come in the ring?
	Like, you know, Alex Pereira has that energy.
	When you're in there, when he comes in, like when I'm in there as a fan, and there is a unique energy, like that pentameter of the, I would say, yeah, there's definitely fighters with any that you feel the energy.
	Are there some?
	Like, what are some that you would even name?
	Like, are there some that people are excited?
	Yeah, the people energy, his own energy.
	Yeah.
	You just can feel it.
	That's interesting.
	And like Clay Glita, win or lose the energy.
	It's just so good.
	Yeah.
	You see him, you just get excited.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	That's the energy.
	And it's coming off of him.
	You can feel it.
	And that he wants to be there, you know, like, wow.
	But yeah, there's a lot of fighters that you just get that really that energy from.
	And then when you get it from both at the same time, that's where you really firing off, right?
	Yeah.
	Is it tougher to referee some of the bigger fighters?
	Is it because of their body shape?
	Like when they're like, is there a weight class that's a little bit tougher or different that you have to adjust how you do or where you place yourself?
	I don't know about tougher or different.
	Like the smaller guys are faster.
	The bigger guys are stronger, right?
	Physics, I guess.
	So you just, you know, make sure you're fast enough for the faster guys and you're in the right position for the bigger guys.
	I don't like have a preference.
	Like I'm whatever.
	You know, you want to be in the right position and they'll listen to your commands.
	And, you know, because people do ask, like, oh, how would you stop them?
	And the same way you'd stop, you know, a small, smaller guy.
	And they always all honor the referee for the most part.
	For the most part.
	Yeah.
	You know, because that's part of the code of.
	Yeah.
	You give respect, you get respect, right?
	So, you know.
	Yeah, the level of respect that's in that ring is pretty amazing, too.
	I feel like yeah, I think people would be surprised definitely how like you know respectful fighters are to to me.
	You know, I can't really speak for anyone, but to me, and um, you know, obviously, you're not going to always agree, but for the most part, uh, for the very, very most part, um, they're very respectful.
	Have you ever been at a fight where someone passed away in the ring or there was something that tragic that happened?
	No.
	Wow.
	That's that's amazing, Dan.
	Yeah, that's a blessing.
	That's a lot of fights.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Because you've refereed thousands of fights.
	Yeah, probably.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Definitely a lot of them.
	Yeah.
	Is there anything different about refereeing a male fight to a female fight?
	No.
	I've been lucky to get some of the best female fights ever.
	And there's really no difference.
	You know, it's pretty amazing, the level that they've grown so quickly.
	For sure.
	And female sports in general.
	If we talk about women's wrestling, last year I went to the NAIA Women's Nationals.
	Your daughter was in it?
	Yeah.
	Oh, she was.
	Yeah.
	She won the regional last year.
	Let's go.
	And the level of competition was insane.
	Really?
	You know, she fell short her first year last year.
	So we'll see how this year goes.
	But the level and these, you know, they're like, they're not girls.
	They're 26-year-old women in college.
	That's a good point.
	There's some real tough women out there.
	So it was amazing.
	Although I wish she had won a few matches.
	Me and her sitting there watching that level together was two days.
	It was in Kansas.
	And I was kind of at the end.
	I'm kind of happy she didn't do that well because we were able to go out to lunch and dinner and hang out.
	Yeah.
	Oh, that's nice.
	This year is a new year and we'll see how she does.
	And she really loves it, huh?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Oh, all my kids really loved wrestling.
	There's such a great value in that.
	There's such a great sense of like you can take care of yourself that you can handle yourself, I bet.
	There is.
	It's just, there's more.
	Like wrestling's the best sport, you know, that you could do in high school level and well, youth level to college level.
	Oh, wrestlers will always be the craziest, too.
	You'd like, you'd just be driving one day and you'd see your buddy wrapped in trash bags, right?
	It's like 90 degrees out in Louisiana.
	My buddy Paul Corso would be like, and I think it's his birthday actually today or tomorrow, but wrapped in trash bags, just running down the highways.
	He's like, I got a fight in two hours.
	You're like, who are you fighting?
	You're fighting off Satan, brother.
	That's wild.
	Yeah.
	But same as what we were talking about, like the dedication and commitment, right?
	And then it carries on to almost anything.
	And also, like, you know, like when you're wrestling and you feel defeat, right?
	Like, you're learning life lessons on a wrestling mat instead of having to learn it outside the world where the, you know, cost sometimes is a little more.
	So you're learning it just by, you know, you know, training and stepping on a wrestling mat.
	There's nothing, you know, it's nothing better than that.
	When I was going to MMA classes, I remember there would be like days where like, even after like, I'd sit there at the end of the day and sometimes I would just like ball, like just emotions would come out of me.
	But it was stuff that got unlocked that had been in my muscles or in my fashion in me.
	And it was like the ability to be able to be like beaten by somebody that also cares that you're going to be okay at the same time.
	There's something really fascinating about that.
	And I don't think you can find it any other place, right?
	Like you know your competitor also, they want to beat you, but they also, some of them want to teach you, especially if you're new.
	It's just like there's, it's unprecedented different levels of well-being and competition and ferociousness and defeat that are all wrapped up in there.
	Yeah.
	And bonds can be made that way.
	Oh, I see.
	You learn who all the cops are because all of them are off duty.
	Yeah.
	You know, they're all in there.
	And I saw a few guys that I used to train with and mostly in the stand-up stuff and, you know, buckets of blood, we would really go hard.
	A lot of people would come and be like, what the hell?
	Right.
	It was my early training.
	And I just got bonds with those guys forever.
	You know, seeing them is great.
	And we laugh about that because I don't know.
	You spar pretty hard.
	Yeah.
	So it was good.
	It's good.
	Do you ever think that a fighter threw a fight or had given up but kept fighting?
	What is that kind of energy like?
	How do you manage something like that?
	And how do you decide if it's just you interjecting some of your own thoughts into what's going on?
	Can you take me on even just some journeys about some of that?
	So like, you know, what, like if a guy is giving up or yeah, like, do you ever think a guy doesn't want to be in there, but he's staying in there?
	Like, do you ever get some of that energy?
	Yeah, it's, it's kind of the sport where if you don't want to be in there, most likely you're not going to be for very long, right?
	So like, I have seen guys that it's not going very well, and you can tell they definitely want to be there, right?
	That's a little easier to see.
	I think, definitely.
	But yeah, I guess it's a good point, huh?
	Yeah.
	Usually, if you don't want to be there, at some point, you're not going to be there pretty quick.
	And you can see, you know, guys get surprised or, you know, overwhelmed.
	And for that moment, you know, live to fight another day and whatever.
	And, but usually, like, if a guy, you know, they, you know, you're stopping them, they're not stopping themselves for the most part.
	Have you ever had a guy stop himself or their corner stop him?
	What's some of that?
	I have like amateur stuff.
	Like, I had a kid walk out of the cage and leave the other day.
	Wasn't for him.
	Good choice.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It wasn't for him.
	He was an amateur.
	So like, good decision.
	Yeah.
	Fuck yeah.
	They'll get a smoothie, huh?
	I was like, all right.
	I waved it off and they're like, what?
	I'm like, yeah, once you leave, it's over.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That'd be crazy.
	He comes back in.
	His mom's like walking back in with him or something or his buddies.
	One time it was my buddy and he knocked this guy out and somehow his mom got in and you thought she was going to kneel down and to see tend to her son, but the doctors were there.
	He's being taken care of.
	She stepped over and gave him the finger.
	Gave my buddy the finger.
	It was crazy.
	I remember it was many years ago, but I remember because ACTC Thunderstruck was being played and the mom's giving the kid the finger.
	It was pretty awesome.
	Oh, it's epic.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Have there been some other instances that have happened at the end of the match where what's that like?
	Because that's a lot of energy.
	People are coming into the ring.
	You still have fighters that are down sometimes.
	Obviously, that was years and years ago.
	And so now it's, you know, only the right personnel coming in.
	But that's, you know, I say I was, I fought on that card, that woman.
	So that was a long time ago.
	But, you know, it could be pretty crazy, you know, especially like the higher, you know, the event and loud and stuff.
	And then when the fight ends, sometimes it's just like that.
	It is.
	Yeah.
	It's just like, like, you know, so that's crazy.
	And the more over the years, the more you work, the more the sounds kind of some you hear, some you don't.
	Like I can pinpoint someone's voice and then other, you know, there's thousands of people screaming.
	Yeah, it's crazy that it can be dead quiet in there with so many people in there sometimes.
	And sometimes there'll be certain cheers going on, but it's still, there's this real silence that's right up there by the cage.
	Like it's almost eerie in a way.
	It can be.
	Or mysterious.
	Yeah.
	Or unique.
	It's powerful.
	Yeah.
	You know, because there can be like this insane moment.
	20,000 people are watching.
	And it's quiet.
	And then other times it's loud and then cheering and you're like, what are they saying?
	Sometimes you can't understand what they're saying and stuff like that.
	And so it's like up and down.
	You know, it's pretty crazy.
	Yes.
	Like life, man.
	Yeah, yeah, up and down.
	Yeah.
	Did you ever suspect that a fighter threw a fight?
	No.
	No.
	Like, no.
	Like, some guys aren't, you know, obviously I have all different levels.
	So some guys are coming in, they get punched and they're done.
	But that's just, you know, they're not throwing it.
	They just don't have the talent to, but I've never suspected anything like that.
	What was it like when Connor would come in the ring?
	Did you do any of his fights?
	I didn't.
	No, I didn't do any of his fights, but it was crazy.
	I've been, you know, I've worked cards where he was on.
	And like Madison Square Garden, when he fought the first Madison Square Garden, it was crazy.
	And then even after you went outside and there was, you know, Irish people cheering everywhere.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	They show up.
	Yeah, yeah.
	They really do.
	So could you even tell us who you thought the best fighter is that you've seen?
	I don't know if I, so I stopped looking at fights like a fan a pretty long time.
	Yeah, I kind of don't see him that way.
	I wouldn't even be able like to pick a favorite fighter or say who's the best fighter or anything like that.
	But, you know, obviously there's fights where you're like, wow, that was really exciting or something like that.
	Yeah.
	You know, but yeah, I kind of just very looked at it at the referee standpoint these days mostly.
	Is there a fighter that you feel like plays by the rules the most?
	Oh, there's a bunch of polite guys who are just polite.
	But for the for the most part, everyone really plays by the rules.
	That's a good point.
	I think a lot of the fouls that are accidental, you do.
	Yeah, I do.
	Some of it couldn't even, even if you wanted to do it the way, you know, it's such a fast.
	That's a good point.
	Like, you know, it'd be hard to strategize something like that.
	But then you have some guys that are real grindy, and when they're in the cage, they're going to do what they have to do.
	And it is a fight.
	And, you know, you got to try to control it.
	Did you get to Rafania Khabib's fights?
	Nope.
	So him and Connor, but mostly everyone else.
	Is there a reason why you think?
	No, there's no, I don't believe there's a reason why.
	How do you guys determine which fights your referee do you draw out of a hat?
	No, the commission just gives you, you know, you'll go and you'll get your assignments.
	So I never really asked exactly what they use.
	So you and Herb Dean aren't back there like this then?
	No.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	No.
	So you come and they give you a sheet and you already have your assignments there.
	And is it almost like opening up like a Christmas wish list?
	Like in some ways, like, are there some you excited about?
	Like, are there some actually you're happy you don't have to so you can sit and watch it?
	Or do you even think of it like that?
	That's like a fan thing to do.
	Yeah.
	I do sometimes and it sounds maybe crazy, but like if I'm like, oh, wow, that fight would be hard.
	I kind of hope I get it to see if I could do it.
	And what would determine if a fight would be kind of hard?
	What even in your head makes you think of that?
	Or what makes some fights harder than others?
	Yeah, well, some matchups and things are like, oh, this guy is really has one knockout power and this guy is really great on the ground, but it's not very good at taking him down.
	So then, you know, you're right.
	So you don't know what you're going to get.
	And I think that's what would make it harder or not complicated, but interesting.
	So let's get rid of the word harder, but interesting.
	For sure.
	Yeah.
	I think it's so interesting how so many fighters have different reasons why they fight.
	Some is to test themselves.
	Some don't even know.
	Some is to get rid of anger, you know, to challenge.
	Some just love the violence.
	You know, I just think it's pretty fascinating to see how many why guys do it.
	Yeah, different, you know, from different roads, right?
	Yeah.
	And everyone, yeah.
	You coach.
	And we can wrap up in a few minutes.
	Thank you so much, man.
	This has been cool.
	I appreciate it.
	You know, it's like I get to go sometimes to the fights and get to see you guys there.
	And it's like, you know, it's almost like you, I mean, you guys are kind of like celebrities in that fighting world.
	I mean, that world is built so big that I mean, the referees are sometimes like, oh, you know, but you don't have to have people that are excited to see you.
	There is, but, you know, it's crazy.
	Yeah, it is because it's definitely not about, you know, me.
	Of course, but there's there's not there's not a lot of other sports.
	I don't think what's that been like?
	What's it like being a part of something that's changed?
	Like, have you noticed the changes over time?
	Have you noticed a different energy in the space?
	Have you like, have you noticed that fighters change?
	What have you, what have you noticed?
	Well, it, you know, obviously it's still a young sport, right?
	And it's growing and growing.
	Not only like, so I think was it 2009?
	Was my first?
	So not only has that all changed, but people have changed since 2009.
	So, yeah, fighters are different because people are different.
	And, you know, and we have like, oh, the internet's even bigger and all that stuff.
	And, you know, so yeah, a lot of things have changed, but the concept is there, right?
	Put two people in there and they fight.
	And so that's the same.
	Fighters like end up the same.
	Like, you know, even though times are different, like eventually, like, you'll, you'll, even when you're talking to one, you know, they're there for one goal and, you know, to be competitive.
	And that's always stayed the same.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Um, was there ever like a fighter that retired in the ring?
	Because, you know, a lot of times they'll lay their gloves down.
	Was there any moment, one of those that kind of stood out to you?
	Or I'm trying to think just one that even caught your own feelings.
	I believe, uh, I believe I might be wrong, but um, I believe Craig Rita retired the last time I refed him, I think.
	So that would be pretty significant because I refed him up a few times and he's you know, awesome.
	Um, so I believe, and there's probably been others too that have retired after I've ref them.
	But those are always like, I know some of them you can feel coming, right?
	And then some you can't.
	It happens in wrestling too.
	They'll take off their shoes and they leave it in the center.
	And sometimes you're like, oh, yeah, makes sense.
	And other times, like, hey, you know, you got more to give and more to go.
	But as you said, you know, the amount of time that stuff takes.
	Yeah.
	You spend time now coaching your daughters.
	Yeah.
	So my daughter.
	Yeah.
	So I, my daughter and I. Is this her school?
	Um, this was her high school.
	So I coached for the well, she went.
	This is the team she wrestled for.
	So we have in our area.
	So we have one school, which is Bayshore that has the girls' wrestling team.
	And then the other schools, which she went to Icelett, all go there.
	So I coach the Bay Shore.
	I'm the assistant coach at the Bay Shore girls team.
	And then me and my daughter run a club together called Empire Girls Wrestling together.
	So, and right now that's growing.
	Like the whole sport's growing.
	It's amazing.
	It's great that girls get the opportunity to be what I believe is the best sport.
	And it's awesome.
	Yeah.
	It's awesome.
	And then coaching with my daughter right now is really, she's very good.
	She actually coached at, which is a big thing for us at the national team, New York national team at Fargo this year.
	It was her first year coaching there.
	And she did really well.
	And she's going to be an awesome coach.
	She's dynamite, huh?
	Yeah.
	What's her name?
	Maura.
	Maura.
	Oh, it's a pretty name, man.
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	That's cool, man.
	Oh, there you go.
	Look at that.
	Yeah.
	So this was really.
	How much nonsense does Maura allow?
	Not much either.
	Yeah, there's not much going on.
	Not much nonsense.
	This was August, the end of August.
	It was the New York State Fair.
	And they invited us.
	And we brought a girls' team and a boys' team.
	And the boys and the girls stay in the 4-H storms.
	So they get the state fair for free.
	The kids get to walk around and do all that.
	It was really cool.
	And then they wrestled us for the people that were watching.
	Yeah, so all those people were just walking by the state fair watching the dual meets.
	Dude, that's great entertainment.
	Why not put something like that in a place where people are already at and looking for entertainment?
	Yeah, it was pretty cool.
	Because so often, sometimes you'll put it in a gym or something.
	And people don't even know, you know, especially a lot of times in high school or even outside of like in college.
	People, you just don't know.
	But if you're at a fair, you're looking for entertainment.
	And there it is.
	It was really cool.
	It was our first year doing it.
	My wife planned it and we got invited and it was really cool.
	We'll do it again for sure.
	It was really cool.
	Wow.
	Maura.
	More.
	Maura.
	Maura.
	O-R-A.
	M-O-R-A.
	Beautiful young lady.
	That's awesome, dude.
	Congratulations.
	Thanks.
	I didn't get anything.
	Well, you showed up.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	That's for sure.
	You know?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I mean, that's a lot of it.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And you kept going.
	Yeah, yeah.
	You know, we're talking about it today.
	It's like, as, yeah, like life has, there's a lot of little off-ramps that you can get on.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And, you know, you guys, we were just talking earlier about things that, you know, you don't think ever going to happen happens.
	And you just got to keep going forward.
	And then, you know, you know, high on the prize, I guess.
	Yeah.
	So, yeah.
	So I'm lucky.
	You know, I got all these good things going.
	Yeah.
	It seems like you stay really busy.
	What is your daily routine like, kind of?
	So I start work at the town at 7:30 to 4.
	At the diesel mechanic?
	Yeah.
	And then that's unbelievable.
	And then our practices, bro, right now, our practice is just empire practices.
	They're from 7 to 9 o'clock on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays, and Sundays.
	And then now we're starting the high school season, so we have open bats for that too.
	Wow.
	Keeping busy.
	Yeah, that keeps you busy.
	You like staying busy, huh?
	Yeah, very.
	I like to stay busy.
	I like to keep moving.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's me.
	I don't sit around much.
	I've never been much of a sit-around type of guy.
	But, you know, too much nonsense can happen.
	Yeah, but you can still have fun.
	That's true.
	But you can have, like, I'm a pretty serious guy, but I'm like things I'm good at.
	I'm good at making fun of myself.
	I'm good at laughing.
	I know, you know, like I came to see your show.
	That was funny.
	Yeah.
	And I was speaking.
	My cousins were there.
	They're huge fans.
	They had a good time.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And, you know, when they told me they were going to be, I was like, oh, I'm going.
	And so they're huge fans.
	And it was good.
	It was good.
	Thanks.
	It was funny.
	Yeah.
	I'll accept that.
	I appreciate that.
	Hey, you're a referee.
	You would know, man.
	Well, I don't know about it if I had no comedy, but I'll take it though.
	Yeah, good enough.
	Fair enough.
	Fair enough.
	I've laughed a few times.
	Hey, that makes me, yeah.
	That's all we can ask.
	From a guy who doesn't accept nonsense, that's the most we can ask.
	Is there any other, oh, are referees allowed to, is there like an alcohol rule with referees?
	Like, I know with pilots.
	Can you look it up for me?
	How soon before a flight can a pilot have alcohol?
	Is there a rule with referees that you can or can't drink before a fight?
	Or you can't drink before a fight.
	So I would have to say, or is like, is there a time?
	I think it would be like 24 hours or something like that.
	I never, you know.
	But they never, it's never like, they don't, they're not breathalizing refs or anything like that.
	Yeah.
	But it would be hard to do.
	So what?
	Referee a fight if somebody's been drinking?
	It would probably be well, it would be impossible.
	Like to actually do the actual impossible.
	But then, you know, you spend, so you're, you're in there, you're, you're with doctors, commissions, and whatever.
	And I wouldn't think they'd let you catch on.
	Yeah, so someone would catch on.
	Let me see what this says.
	Many airlines have stricter internal policies with some requiring pilots to abstain for at least 12 hours before flying to allow sufficient time for metabolization.
	Dude, I don't think 12 hours is long enough, to be honest.
	12 hours seems, you know, that's not that much.
	Even here's something crazy.
	So I have a CDL, so it has to be zeros when they do drug tests.
	They do a blow.
	You're allowed to blow a percentage.
	In summary, pilots must avoid alcohol for at least eight hours before a flight, maintain BAC below zero point zero four.
	Yeah.
	That's that's drunk in some states, I think.
	Damn.
	And not fly while hungover or impaired.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	So, no, yeah.
	So I guess.
	Oh my God, bro.
	They should have to blow it in the front of the plane and show the number of the rest of the plane.
	That's pretty crazy.
	That's yeah.
	No, we don't do breath lights or anything, but it's it's you wouldn't it's never been an issue.
	No, I no.
	Yeah, if you've never heard any, you've never heard of anybody having an issue.
	No, a real one.
	No.
	Yeah.
	What's it like when you get there from when you do you when you leave?
	Take me through a UFC fight as a referee.
	So you get there.
	How early?
	Like how early do you get there?
	It's usually, it could be two hours, hour and a half, I think usually.
	And who's there when you get there?
	Like is Megan Olivi in there yet?
	I guess I don't know.
	Do you have a meeting with the commission?
	Yeah, like just take me through.
	So I straight go in and walk in, find the commission room.
	You know, obviously, if I've been there before, but if I haven't been working a place I've never been, walk in, find the commission room, get my assignments.
	When the fighters come, I do my one-on-one rules meeting.
	And then each fighter.
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	Every fighter on the card.
	Every fighter I have on the card.
	Yep.
	So usually we'll go with the average of three fights on the card, right?
	I've had more, less if a cancellation, whatever.
	But go over the rules, ask them if they have any questions.
	Then, you know, depending on what state, mostly now you do also, you do RO, like the review official.
	What does that mean?
	So it's like the instant replay.
	We have instant replay now.
	And then the fight before yours, you usually do, you know, the gate when they walk in the check.
	And so you're busy pretty much the whole time.
	And will you have, like, what do you eat before?
	Do you have an energy drink?
	What do you do?
	I don't have an energy drink, but some places I eat before.
	Sometimes I don't eat before.
	It all depends.
	Like when I refer to New Jersey, there's a few restaurants.
	I'll have something.
	Madison Square Garden, I always go to the same place and I eat there.
	What is it?
	And it's a Molly Wee pub.
	And they have like Irish beefs too.
	Yeah, and I get what you like.
	I like quesadillas that with almond flower tortillas.
	We like what we like.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	So I get that.
	And then, you know, so, and that, like, like, did you idea, like MSG, I do the same thing every time.
	So there's a guy.
	I wish I could remember the name of his company, but I can't right now.
	But he sells shirts and stuff outside.
	I go out and say hello to him every single time, right?
	He's always out there, no matter how cold, no matter what.
	The guy's out there.
	He's awesome.
	He's right on Eighth Avenue.
	He's on the corner.
	And then I say hello to him and I go down and get ready to go after.
	And then I go to the Marlar League.
	Then I eat.
	Usually the beefs do.
	And then get going.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I'm kind of a creature of habit in some ways.
	Yeah.
	You know?
	Yep.
	Yeah.
	Oh, I'm very much, you know, like, you know, same.
	And I use the word criteria and whatever.
	But, you know, this is how I do it.
	And with almost everything I'm like that, really.
	Hey, discipline equals freedom, man.
	That's what Jocko Willink always says.
	Yeah, that's pretty.
	Yeah.
	It's awesome.
	And I think that's kind of true.
	It's like if you get up and get the things you don't want to do done out of the day, your day is so different.
	Yeah.
	You know?
	Yeah, definitely.
	Have you ever been unable to do a referee a fight and for what reason?
	Before you go.
	Yeah.
	Well, I have a story of like I refed, but I had when I was reffing, I had two kidney stones and staples like in my stomach.
	I ended up, so it's a crazy story.
	I had my appendix out when I was like 20.
	And then a few years ago, I had it out again.
	So they took out the appendix, but they left in like a stub.
	So I actually had my appendix out twice.
	Pretty interesting.
	Or you got scammed.
	Either way.
	It's the same hospital.
	Who forgot a little?
	I don't know.
	And it was bad.
	So they had to like.
	So that's nonsense.
	Yeah.
	That's real nonsense.
	And the fact that when I asked, you know, I'm like, hey, is this, does this happen?
	They're like, it does.
	I'm like, oh.
	So I also, at the same time, had kidney stones.
	So I did a recovery.
	And so everything was kind of miserable.
	And I had a big show, an event coming up.
	And it was an important one for me.
	Oh, but it was just a little meaning to me.
	It was a local and the main event.
	It was just so I decided in my head I was going to do it.
	So I ended up getting the doctor that I was going to see every two days for the recovery to say you could do it.
	And she was like, you can do it.
	I said, great.
	So, but the staples are getting really tight.
	So I took a few of them out from the top.
	And then by yourself?
	Yeah.
	And then it was easy, though.
	They were coming out already.
	Yeah.
	And then, yeah.
	And then.
	Yeah, it's like Build-A-Bear.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	You just put it together.
	Boom, boom, boom, boom.
	You know, and then, so then, but the kidney stone started kicking in really bad.
	It was just a weird time.
	And so the night before, I'm like, really, panic button.
	I'm about to say I can't do it.
	And, but I hung in there.
	So next day I get there and then the pain's kind of starting to go away a little bit.
	So I get to the event.
	I get the fights and the main event like I was hoping.
	And awesome place that I've always wanted to work.
	And so the bathroom is like attached.
	Like the fans and us were using the same bathroom.
	So I walk by and they're like, oh, Keith, you're the man.
	So I walk into the bathroom and now I'm feeling pain real bad.
	From the kidney stones.
	Yeah.
	So, boom, I pass it.
	It goes ta-ting.
	Yeah, yeah, it hits the thing.
	All good for that.
	Like, well, the pain was still there, but it felt so much better.
	Yeah.
	And I was walking out and it.
	You'll shoot your eye.
	And the kids like, the kid's like, oh, you're a legend.
	And all I can think of is you should have saw what just happened in there, dude.
	Like crazy.
	And then the event went great.
	And then I passed the other one because I had two on the way to Seattle the next week in the plane.
	Oh, yeah, you got to save one for when you travel.
	Yeah, just miserable.
	But yeah, it's kind of a funny story.
	And then the appendix out twice pretty funny because even it was actually almost ended up being bad because I was telling people what was wrong with me because I was thought it was already done.
	They thought that was already done.
	So they kept skipping over that.
	And yeah, so it was a week or so and I was pretty an infection by then, you know, kept caught in.
	But it was fine and everything worked out great.
	Dude, that's wild that just to know, if people want to know if some of these referees are tough or not, this guy's passing kidney stones between fights in the bathroom.
	That's pretty unprecedented.
	Keith Peterson, man, thank you so much, one, for always making me feel welcome when I'm at the fights.
	It's such an honor to get to see you guys, man.
	Will you agree with this that it's one of the most the people that make that are part of that company that put that event on, it's pretty spectacular.
	Yes, yeah, yeah.
	It is.
	Like, yeah, like some of the T-Mobiles and others.
	Yeah, just all so special.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And you see the same people over and over again, and it really does feel like a family area.
	Yeah, it is.
	Does it feel like that to you?
	Yeah, yeah.
	You know, as we figure it out, I kind of keep to myself.
	But there's some people I see every time that I really great people and, you know, I speak to them briefly.
	And it's a really, you know, thank you so much for all your efforts, man.
	Thanks for continuing to just support wrestling.
	And I think that it's just, you know, you being out there just inspires other young people to get into it and just having like so much history yourself in it.
	And yeah, thank you for letting us talk about your family and stuff today, man.
	And yeah, cheers to many more years of being on the journey, man.
	Yeah, yeah, for sure.
	Thank you.
	Amen.
	You bet.
	Thank you.
	Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.
	I must be cornerstone.
	Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found.

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