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July 18, 2025 - This Past Weekend - Theo Von

01:29:09

#598 - Joaquin Phoenix

Joaquin Phoenix is an actor known for his many popular roles in films like “Joker”, “Walk the Line”, “the Master” and more. His latest movie “Eddington”, from director Ari Aster, is in theaters now. Joaquin joins Theo at the Hotel Chelsea in NYC to talk about how the chaos of 2020 inspired his new movie, the influence his dad had on his characters over the years, and why he feels so compelled to speak up on human rights issues. See “Eddington” in theaters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL6jZqExlIk ------------------------------------------------ Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ DraftKings: Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app right now and use code THEO. That’s code THEO for new customers to get $150 in bonus bets instantly when you bet just five bucks. Only on DraftKings. The Crown Is Yours. https://draftkings.com Liquid IV: Go to https://LIQUIDIV.COM and get 20% off your first order with code THEO at checkout. Shopify: Go to https://shopify.com/theo to see how easy it is to start your business today. Rocket Money: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster at https://rocketmoney.com/theo ------------------------------------------------- Gambling problem? Call 1-800-Gambler. In New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369). In Connecticut, Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg dot org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (Kansas). 21+ plus age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG.co/AUDIO ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: tpwproducer@gmail.com Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Send mail to: This Past Weekend 1906 Glen Echo Rd PO Box #159359 Nashville, TN 37215 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Trevyn https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/ Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Producer: Andrew https://www.instagram.com/bleachmediaofficial/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Time	Text
	Today's guest is a legendary actor, one of the greats.
	They'll say, I'll say it.
	People are saying it.
	He's had so many amazing roles in The Joker, Walk the Line, The Master, Signs.
	Eddington is his new film, which I got to take a peek at before we got together.
	We caught up at the Hotel Chelsea in New York City.
	Today's guest is Mr. Joaquin Phoenix.
	Shine on me And I will find a song I've been singing I'm gonna sing it I'm gonna sing it Yeah, you okay if we start, Joaquin?
	I am.
	Why are you looking at the ground?
	What's going on?
	I don't know.
	I feel like I'm a little bit nervous.
	Oh, because it seems like, it seems like the assassin, like before he's about to fuck people up, he's just like staring, like getting in the zone.
	It's like, let's do this.
	So I was like, okay, yeah, I mean, start.
	Sure, man.
	Start.
	I think I'm waiting for like the coaches in my head to show up and be like, you can do this, you know?
	You can do this.
	You can definitely do this.
	Thank you.
	I'm questionable.
	But coach is like, he's questionable.
	We're not sure who's going to play.
	Hey, that's not Jimmy Chitwood.
	Okay.
	We got to shit that guy on the bench, you know?
	I don't know who that is.
	Oh, it was the guy from Hoosier's member who comes in and makes me.
	I don't remember.
	Dang.
	Thank you for telling me you don't remember instead of pretending like you do, though.
	So I keep talking about it.
	You're welcome.
	That's going to happen a lot.
	There's a lot that I probably don't know.
	Well, we're going to find out.
	Thank you for your time, man.
	No, thank you.
	I appreciate it.
	I really appreciate it.
	And thank you for all your beautiful work over the years.
	It's been nice to witness and consume as just a regular person in the world.
	Oh, man.
	Thank you.
	You're very sincere.
	It's very nice and refreshing and also slightly uncomfortable.
	Yeah, sorry.
	No, don't.
	I know you're married, so I'll keep it just as sincere.
	You know, we won't get physically sincere because that can be, it's outlawed in some territories.
	But no, thank you for your time, man.
	And yeah, thank you for all the cool work and helping us think and stuff like that, just as viewers, you know.
	Yeah, it's funny how sometimes like life or God or whatever uses like a person as like a, an instrument, you know?
	And yeah, you just have such a great way of like, yeah, just being able to do something that we can't, so many people can't do, but then it helps us, the rest of us reflect on how we do things and live.
	So does it make any sense, Ethan?
	It's very nice.
	I mean, I don't know.
	All I'm hearing is all I want to say is like, no, everyone can do it.
	I don't have anything special.
	I don't do anything special.
	Well, you're a lucky guy then.
	You've been fortunate.
	Yeah, I've been very fortunate.
	I've worked with great, great people.
	What did you do this summer?
	Did anything fun?
	I feel like I was getting serious for a second.
	No, no, no.
	It was?
	No, I wasn't getting serious.
	Okay, seriously.
	What did I do?
	When does the summer start?
	I guess the summer starts in, I would say mid, I would say June 1st.
	June.
	Okay.
	No, nothing fun.
	I just have this movie coming out.
	So we started, you know, I think somewhere like the 10th or something like that, started press.
	Okay.
	So Disney Press in LA and then flew to London is the press.
	So that's it.
	Nothing, nothing terribly exciting.
	Yeah.
	But I'm not, we're not like those kind of people.
	We're not like, you know, like go vacation people.
	That's not your life.
	No.
	Oh.
	Yeah.
	You always, I think when you picture like actors, you always picture them in like a little bit of like kind of like a Rapunzel castle or like somebody's having shrimp, you know, like that kind of thing.
	I think that's like a romanticizing of those of the people.
	I mean, maybe I should.
	Yeah.
	I mean, maybe that's what's missing.
	But, but no, it's not.
	I mean, I have, like, but it's not a regular thing.
	It's just definitely not like, oh, here's summertime.
	Let's, let's do that summer experience.
	Got it.
	But yeah, I have that like fantasy sometimes.
	Like sometimes I see myself like in slow motion, jumping off a pier into a lake and shit, but I haven't done it yet.
	Okay, okay.
	So if you're not even living out the fantasies you're supposed to be doing, then what the hell am I freaking sitting over here parading them around?
	I know.
	What are you doing?
	What do you do with your summer?
	That's a great question.
	This is your question.
	Thanks.
	Thanks, dude.
	Oh, this is a real pickleball game here.
	No, no.
	I don't know.
	It's good.
	I just didn't want credit for something.
	It wasn't my question.
	So I just felt like I had to acknowledge that.
	No, well said.
	Yeah, that's a great question.
	I think, yeah, I didn't do that much.
	I just kind of like worked, I guess.
	And oh, I did get to see my niece graduated from high school.
	So that was pretty cool.
	Just to watch somebody go through that moment where they're kind of like, you know, where the training wheels kind of come off of life a little bit, you know?
	So I thought that was pretty neat.
	And I watched Eddington the other day.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Really cool.
	Cool.
	I never graduated.
	You didn't graduate high school?
	No.
	To be honest, I'm not sure I even made it to high school.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Oh, damn.
	That explains things so much better than I think watching you.
	You're like, oh, this guy didn't even went to high school.
	Right.
	Yeah, I want you to have all the information.
	Like, I'm an open book.
	And I just want you to really understand what you're dealing with here.
	Okay.
	As we move forward.
	Okay.
	Well, let's talk about Eddington first because it was awesome.
	And it was just like one of the neat things that I thought, and this is just me being kind of judgmental, just so we can frame this for the conversation is you want some water?
	I was thinking about it.
	I was deciding in my head, I was going, how thirsty are you?
	How much plastic do you want?
	What are we going to do here?
	Yeah.
	That's what you saw.
	So I was like, I looked at the bottle and I said, it looks good.
	I need the water, but it's got a lot of plastic in there.
	Yeah.
	And I was trying to decide.
	No, no, that just feels like then I just feel like I'm.
	No, I think you should.
	Let's go.
	I believe.
	Look, I agree.
	I think everybody's about to try to stop drinking out of plastic.
	Right.
	But this is special water.
	Oh, it's Artesian?
	Artesian?
	That's nice.
	It's nice.
	Yeah, it's nice.
	Oh, that came down on a Sherpa's back or something.
	That was definitely.
	So now that counteracts the plastic, I think.
	Yeah, I think everybody's worried about like microplastics and everything.
	Recent studies have revealed that glass bottles now contain significantly more microplastics than plastic bottles do.
	Thank you so much.
	I did not know that I was going to get an education here.
	Thank you.
	So crazy.
	I like it.
	Speaking of so crazy, man, let's talk about Eddington, dude.
	It was so intense.
	The stakes kept rising.
	Like, because you have like this, it's kind of like a time capsule moment.
	This is what I felt like.
	To me, it felt like this time capsule moment from very recently where you have the COVID mandates, you have the BLM movement going on, you have a change in the overlords of media.
	So now like information is coming out of everywhere, right?
	So there's a lot of like new, but also errant information in the world.
	You have all of these things happening at the same time.
	Then you have this sheriff, Joe Cross, who's kind of like an authority figure, right?
	You know, that's who you look to when there's something going on.
	But also at the same time, everyone's challenging authority.
	So it's just, and then he starts to lose authority over himself.
	So there's like, there's so much going on.
	My question, I'm going to get to it too.
	When there's so much going on like that, as an actor, are you thinking like in each scene, are you thinking I have to embody all of these like little tributaries or at once?
	Or do you take that like scene by scene or moment by moment?
	What's that like?
	Because I mean, it got so intense just as a viewer, you're like, I don't even know if I can watch this, much less trying to be the guy who's, you know, spreading the jam, you know?
	I think it probably changes.
	I think there are days where you're probably hyper aware of the arc and you're kind of like following this trail that you're creating.
	And there's other days where that gets in the way and you just go like, shut the fuck up and just like listen to what this other person say right in front of you and just react to that.
	Like we're not in our own lives, we're not always aware of like our arc.
	So I think it's like you're just trying to balance it out.
	And sometimes you can be so in the moment that you do, you forget that it's like, you just came and we're not, we're shooting this scene in six weeks, but you just have come from whatever.
	This, you know, intense emotional situation.
	And now you're coming to this scene.
	You got to, we have to carry that over.
	So I think that it changes like something that is just like alive and moving and changing.
	And of course, you have like a partner, which is the director and in this case, the writer director, Ari Aster, who just like knows the script, obviously, inside and out and the characters.
	And we had been working, going through the script, you know, for a year prior to shooting where we'd get together.
	I think we were actually in New York primarily and just read through the scripts and talk about things.
	So you're kind of going through and you're developing, you're developing the character and you're following this kind of plan that you have sometimes in your head, some things you've discussed, some things you're just spontaneously coming up with.
	And then you just hope for the best.
	You just go, at some point you go, well, because here's the thing.
	This is the crazy thing about it.
	You'll have this fucking plan that you're like, I'm fucking clever.
	I figured this shit out.
	It goes from this scene.
	Then I go do that and that scene.
	I'm doing that in that scene.
	You have this brilliant fucking plan.
	And you're like, I'm kind of like a genius.
	And then in editing, they'll like pull two of those scenes out, like take them out or like put them somewhere else.
	And then it's like, it's much better.
	And you're like, I'm not a genius.
	I don't fucking know anything.
	Like if this shit works, it's because the fucking director is making this work.
	You know, so like that's the, it's like something very humbling about that process.
	Right.
	And you have to do the work.
	You have to do the work as if every moment is part of this character's life.
	And then there's moments that aren't even in the script and on screen that you're trying to, I don't know, think about and feel and kind of like take on as your experience.
	But you don't really know what's going to end up in the movie.
	So yeah, it's a pretty cool experience.
	It's kind of like life.
	Yeah.
	Like you plan all this shit.
	You plan your day and your life and your year and then shit happens.
	It changes.
	Things get moved around.
	And sometimes their characters, they just get like taken out.
	Yeah.
	And sometimes you have a plan, like you're going to show up to like a something and everything's going to be perfect.
	You're going to have flowers for this and you're going to have the best thing to say.
	And then next thing you know, you're running late or you get there, your plane gets delayed.
	And now you show up and you're getting there as everybody's leaving and you're the last person and you brought the 30th thing of flowers and everything's different.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah.
	Oh.
	Yeah.
	Can you tell at your with your level of experience, can you tell when you stuck the landing on a scene?
	Like, can you like, is there a moment when that thing cuts and you just like can be like, that was pretty good?
	Like I serviced it well.
	I've had that feeling before and it always turned out to be terrible and I was wrong.
	Like anytime, my experience is that anytime I'm like, fuck yeah, okay, got it.
	It's terrible.
	And the times where I'm like, I don't, I don't know.
	I don't know if I even landed.
	I'm not sure what's, I'm not sure what happened.
	That's usually when things, when I like look back at it and I go like, oh, I think that was good.
	That's just my experience.
	I don't know what other actors are like, but yeah, I guess maybe because I don't know.
	I don't know if the things that I like are like capturing something that's like feels like intangible and hard to define.
	And like when you kind of like nail it, I don't really like that kind of acting, or maybe I'm not good at it.
	Yeah, maybe there's a sense of bravado that comes with that that's not as true to life, you know?
	Because it's very rare in life, maybe that you just feel like you kind of nail it, probably.
	Maybe.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I guess there are some people that walk around the world like nailed it.
	I know.
	From Hulk Hogan.
	Who else?
	Who else is somebody that really freaking nailed it?
	Oh, Nicholas Cage and Family Man.
	Have you seen that movie?
	God.
	We got to sit together on a plane one time.
	You know what was interesting about, and thanks for talking about this with me, man, because it's, you know, it's just cool to get to like, like, it's rare you get looking at a piece of art and you get to talk to the paint, you know?
	The interesting thing about Joe Cross, who the character that you played, is that there were moments I'm like, am I cheering for this guy?
	Like, I just felt, I was like, how do I feel?
	Because he's who you're kind of going through the film with, through Eddington with.
	I'm like, how do, like, do I feel for him?
	Do I feel against him?
	The whole time, I just like, I just knew I just felt.
	He made me feel, right?
	Are you thinking about that as we're going, as you're going through it, like how you're trying to make us feel?
	Or that's not something that an actor is doing?
	So something that Ari and I talked about, something that was very important to me from the beginning was that Joe challenges like the audience's preconceived idea of what a conservative small town sheriff is.
	And I didn't know how, you know, I didn't really know how or what that really meant, what that really looked like.
	And I think at some point, I just wanted to care about him.
	Like I just wanted to, I just wanted to like take politics or philosophy or anything like that out of the picture and just go like, what's the, what's the man?
	And I think that I really, I think we found that through his relationship with his, his wife.
	Yeah.
	So I think that's really where he's like most like his power or authority is like threatened or non-existent.
	And so that it becomes like the catalyst for his kind of desire for more authority and power.
	It's one of the things, as you said, there's several things kind of happening.
	But then once you start working, I think maybe you're thinking about that less.
	It's less becomes about, it's almost like you start the process almost like an audience member yourself, because you're kind of outside this thing looking in.
	You're reading the script.
	And he's kind of like, it feels like it's like this, this character over there.
	You know what I mean?
	And you're trying to get to it or bring it to you or whatever that process is.
	I don't fucking know.
	And so you're starting like that and you're kind of going like, oh, how do I feel standing back here when this guy does this?
	And like, if he, if he said that line in this way, how does that make me?
	How would that make me feel?
	And then like somehow throughout this like process, you hopefully start coming together and kind of merging to some point where it's not me standing outside of the character saying, not in like some bullshit, like I am the character way, but just like you're just hopefully experiencing something versus like telling an audience what they should feel.
	Right.
	And I think ultimately the director is probably most responsible, is totally responsible for telling the audience how they should feel.
	So I think it's part of me is like to just to take on the experience and be honest in that moment.
	So you have to really trust that director then, huh?
	Oh, yeah.
	Fuck yeah.
	Fuck.
	Ari's outside.
	I think he does not want to be mentioned in here.
	He's trying to edit from outside.
	He just bleeped his own name out.
	Totally.
	Totally.
	Wow.
	But that just shows you how locked in he is to being on the ones and twos.
	A lot of times with acting, the actors get blamed for when things go bad, right?
	I feel like as a viewer, you're like, oh, shit, you know?
	Like Rodney Dingerfield sucked in that, you know, or whatever.
	Well, yeah.
	But it's really the directors.
	The director doesn't take as much heat, I don't feel like.
	Well, so the actor is the one that you're looking at.
	So like if you're like hating a movie and you're just looking at somebody's face, you're just going to blame them, right?
	But conversely, like if you're also like, this rules, this is have the best time, they get the credit, right?
	So like actors oftentimes, I think more often than not, the actors are getting credit and the director's like, I fucking made all of this work.
	Yeah.
	You fucking ungrateful shit.
	It must be like very frustrating.
	Like a parent almost or the child, you're like, this total thing looks handsome because I chased that lady down the street.
	And he's just wandering around here with his good looks, fucking hiding important shit in the backyard.
	Yeah.
	because we bought him a shovel for his birthday, right?
	Exactly.
	Yeah.
	And I mean, there's you're talking about you're having multiple takes to choose from, right?
	Yeah.
	And so, you know, Dr. going through and ultimately with the editor selecting this take, sometimes they're pulling the audio from another take they're putting in there.
	Just the what lens is used and how it's lit and the angle and whether you cut to a wide shot or you're close, like all of those things.
	It just happens.
	Like even for me, I just watch a movie also.
	I'm not aware of that all the time.
	Yeah, it's a good point.
	It's not like you're a wizard watching it or something.
	I'm definitely not a wizard watching it.
	Yeah.
	But it's, so I imagine it's very frustrating, you know, for them.
	And I think anyone that's, that's in the business knows this, right?
	So when the movie, when the movie doesn't work, even if the general public is like, you know, fucking so-and-so sucks.
	Yes.
	The director probably knows that they really mean them.
	So they carry that.
	I think it's probably that I imagine it's the hardest job.
	Being a director.
	I mean, for making movies.
	Yeah.
	The hardest job.
	You haven't directed.
	Did you ever think about it sometimes?
	Are there moments where you're almost there?
	I don't know.
	I don't know that I like to delegate and I'm really indecisive.
	So, and it's like particularly under pressure and it feels like there's a lot, you know, you're constantly under pressure, I think, as a as a director.
	Right.
	So, but I don't, I don't know.
	I think what's appealing about it, the idea is the collaboration with all of like the heads of the different departments.
	Is it actor?
	You, you know, you're, you're collaborating with costume and hair and makeup and like props and stuff.
	And then, of course, the director, but like the director is just like everybody.
	And that's, that sounds, that sounds nice and appealing.
	I don't know.
	It might be a pain.
	Like oftentimes, you know, they're like, I'll call you back, but I have to choose which forks we're using for the dinner scene.
	Right.
	You're like, which fucking forks?
	Yeah.
	Like, they're like, if there's five forks to choose from, I got to choose which one we're using.
	Yeah.
	That kind of sucks.
	Oh, yeah.
	And it sucks if you're watching a movie and you see a fork that fucking is out of place, too.
	You're like, these people, this isn't the Titanic.
	You blame the actor.
	Oh, honestly.
	Because it's the actor's face.
	And you're just like, I fucking hate this.
	Oh, you're like, Dunkirk sucks.
	You see the silverware in that thing?
	That's how you feel sometimes.
	You know what was interesting to me?
	And if some of these questions are novice about acting and directing, thank you for entertaining them.
	One thing that was interesting to me about Joe Cross, about your character, well, for one, he was so imperfect, right?
	And yeah, when you saw him at night and he was like feeling like those feelings, when he'd come home from his day and he finally got to deal with what he really wanted to deal with, which was love, right?
	That just felt like so human to me.
	And he was his villain and his hero, right?
	He was the creator of his possibility and his and his pain at the same time.
	And it was just so like, ah, it was, fuck, it was just a lot to watch sometimes.
	Does that just feel like regular life?
	Like, like, could you relate to him as a human?
	Does that make any sense?
	Yeah, it does.
	First of all, I'm happy to talk about whatever.
	I also don't.
	I just realized like I was just talking about movies and directoring.
	I don't fucking know anything.
	I had no idea what a director does.
	So I just like, I don't want you to go like, oh, now I understand what director he is.
	Because I guarantee you directors are like this guy doesn't know shit.
	So I just want to clear that up.
	Yeah.
	He's got some ideas.
	I'll tell you that.
	I'll tell you that about him.
	Well, you didn't walk in here like you definitely had brought the weather with you.
	You know, you certainly came in here like a victim of the storm or just like a regular guy who just gotten, you know, you can't.
	Anyway, go on, sir.
	No, no, no, no.
	Let me educate you here, Theo.
	Let me teach you about filmmaking.
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	I'm sorry.
	I don't remember what.
	Yeah, I just felt like he was the cause of his own possibility and his own pain constantly.
	And it just, it made me think so much about life, and it was so real to see him that way.
	Could you relate to that in your own life?
	Like, or.
	Yeah, of course.
	Yeah, just normal, huh?
	Yeah.
	I mean, yeah, I think all the all the characters in this, I felt when I read the script, I was like, oh, I kind of like, I recognize myself and all of these characters, actually.
	And sometimes it's like, you know, it's an embarrassing admission.
	And then, you know, there's just things particularly that time.
	And I think in some ways, yeah, maybe we're always maybe we're always responsible for how we respond to what happens in the world, right?
	So we're not like so much of like just what happens in life, you don't have any control over, but how we respond to that, we have control over.
	And I know I constantly fail in my response, or at least don't respond in the best way in the moment, right?
	I respond like emotionally.
	And so I definitely identified with that.
	And that's Joe.
	I mean, he kind of like just keeps making mistakes.
	And he's so like he's so desperate to like have some control.
	Like just like, let's just, he just wants, he's just like, you know that feeling when you're like, I just, I need things to just stop for a fucking second so I can breathe.
	And then like your desire to like make things stop, just make things ramp up more and more.
	And then you just like trip and you fall down the stairs.
	It's just like, it's like that.
	Yeah, that escalation.
	Oh, I kept imagining the whole time.
	I'm like, oh my God, this guy is fucking just like has put too much cheese on his burger, dude.
	This guy is just, and then I kept imagining the whole time he has to take a pee and he can't even get to that.
	He's just dealing with like activists and people throwing things through wind.
	And then he gets home and he sleeps in his glasses.
	Like he literally gets up and just has to like bounce.
	And he's like, suddenly it's all in focus again.
	And his brain has barely had time to rest.
	And I'm like, God, somebody fucking just put a sniper, shoot a Xanax into this dude or something.
	Just somebody fucking give him a damn Percocet suppository or something.
	This guy needs some relief, you know?
	Yeah.
	And then it also was like, God, especially during that time, like a lot of mania came along with a lot of those different like things that were happening in the world.
	Right.
	And there's still a lot of mania remnants from that.
	And I was like, God, everybody needed some relief, you know?
	It feels like that as a society sometimes, we need some relief sometimes.
	But we have everything we need, it feels like.
	So it's kind of a weird juxtaposition to be in.
	Yeah.
	So what's the plan?
	Yeah.
	What is the plan?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	It just feels like we're just doing the opposite of a hug right now.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	And yeah, did you feel when you watched that movie, like you got to the, like you were like, this will be a reminder, this will help influence people in a better way?
	This could be like a seed of like where we've been and where we can grow from.
	I don't know.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I don't know.
	Like movies are surprising, those things that connect with people and actually influence culture.
	And sometimes they don't.
	I don't really know what it is.
	That's crazy.
	But I asked you.
	No, no, no.
	I think it's a fair question.
	And I think in some ways, I think all I can do is think about like myself versus like the effect that it has on me.
	And, you know, in some ways, there was there was like, I felt like I had permission to laugh at myself, like a way to like kind of evaluate some of that like mania, as you say.
	It's like, we're like fucking crazy.
	Like the summer of 2020, it was crazy.
	And people were, I love that you said it's the opposite of a hug.
	And it really was like everyone was so kind of fractured and fragmented and just all isolated in our own worlds, like quite literally Physically isolated.
	And then everyone was just so online and kind of fed their own fucking thing, yes, that just further kind of propelled them into their own lanes.
	It's like even people in the same houses and their own place.
	And, and there was just like this, um, I remember everything felt so aggressive.
	Like even there were like, there were like signs that were supposed to be like, like, we trust science and we, you know, we love all people.
	But somehow even that felt like confrontational.
	Right.
	Like there's like, it didn't, it felt like no matter what anyone said, everyone was like, this is my position and my position is fucking right and you go fuck yourself.
	Like, you know, it's just like, people went fucking nuts.
	Well, we, not people, not, we did.
	Yeah, all of us.
	No, it doesn't seem like you're calling anybody out.
	It feels like we're all inclusive.
	I agree.
	It's amazing what a time.
	It was like the most recent time capsule that was the most insane.
	Like usually they're like, we found a can of ham from 1930, you know?
	And we're going to invite everybody over and the girls will sing and then we'll open it, you know?
	But this was like, Jesus Christ, we just found the most insane time capsule and we, the mud is still wet.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But then it's like, it was a reminder, have we even recovered from all of that?
	Like, what happens to the human being as we go through all that?
	And then you have all this pent up anger and confusion and everything.
	I think we wanted to forget or like pretending to forget.
	Because, yeah, it was ugly.
	And it was ugly, but it was also really painful.
	And I think a lot of people were like fucking scared.
	But then also the character of the mother.
	I didn't even think about that, of Joe Cross's mother.
	Mother-in-law.
	Mother-in-law.
	Oh, that was his mother-in-law.
	Of the mother-in-law, because then you're, you're like.
	Did it just change everything now for you?
	No, that's not his mother.
	No, it made it a little bit more crazier.
	I'm like, so you're telling me he teamed up with her mom and now they're the one?
	It's just like, but then that is something a lot of people have in their life.
	Like, oh, well, I talked to my girlfriend's mom all the time and now we're team or the, or the, you know, oh, shit, man, that guy was screwed, dude.
	Yes.
	Joe Cross was fucking screwed.
	Yeah, but he, but he gets, but he's, he screwed himself.
	Yeah, he was the, he was the holder of his possibility and his pain at the same time, you know, it was pretty crazy.
	Yeah, what was meeting Ari Astor like?
	I watched some interviews with him.
	He seems like a charming guy.
	Yes.
	I met one of his partners, Lars Knudsen.
	Did you ever meet him?
	Yeah.
	Dude, I had some video calls with him a few years ago.
	I just really thought, but why?
	We were just talking about something, maybe thinking about an idea.
	I had an idea about a movie.
	And David Spade and I just wrote a movie and made a movie.
	We paid for it ourselves that we made, right?
	So it's fucking very unique.
	It's done.
	It's done.
	We're editing it now.
	Are you in it?
	I'm in it.
	I'm like this, his sidekick.
	He's like the main guy.
	Wait a minute, so you know all about making movies and then you were just playing dumb asking me questions, setting me up, setting me up to be like, well, let me tell you something the here's how it's done.
	No.
	No, we fucking, we have no idea what we have, dude.
	We may have a damn visual diorama that a couple of kids put together for their kindergarten class.
	You know, I was playing a bus boy, you know, not Commodus, you know?
	So I think it's definitely, this is way different.
	I think it's a different, this is a, is that the right way to say it, Commodus?
	I don't fucking know.
	Anyway, no, I didn't know anything.
	I mean, I'm just learning little things, but I mean, I get to talk to somebody who's been, you know, who has had a plethora of experience.
	So you talked to Lars.
	Lars is great.
	Lars is a great producing partner of Ari.
	Yeah, and I just realized that yesterday when I was looking it up, I was like, oh, wow.
	I've speaking with this guy before.
	When I met Ari, we didn't meet.
	We spoke on the phone.
	And it was the summer of 2020 is when we first spoke.
	And he had this film that he wanted to make called Bo is Afraid that he wanted to talk to me about.
	And so I just, I spoke with him on the phone.
	And I mean, the first time that I met him, this is so crazy.
	This is so COVID, was when I got to Montreal to shoot that movie.
	And it's so wild because it just was like normal.
	We just accepted it, but that's very strange, right?
	To not meet the director, for like the actor and the director, not to like be in a room together until they're two weeks off from shooting.
	It seems risque.
	Yeah.
	It seems risque to me to do something like that.
	It's like you could interview your cellmate or whatever, but you're like, now I'll just wing it in there, you know?
	Like you could have a little small Q ⁇ A with your selly.
	So was there something that inspired you or led you to think?
	Because I think what's interesting also in the career of an actor is you start to realize, well, I only have so many times that I get to do this and times that I can afford to be away from family and friends and just take on such energy in my life.
	And so I'm sure it starts to become a little bit more poignant, like the choices that you do make.
	So was there something about him or his processes that made you think this is the right choice?
	Or how do you land on a choice like that?
	You never know if it's the right choice or what it is, right?
	You're just going, I mean, honestly, I just liked him.
	We started talking and the way that he talked about the film and the way that he talked about the character, I knew that it was personal and I could tell that it meant so much to him, that he loved making Movies and it meant so much to him.
	And that he like, I think I just got a sense that he was tireless.
	And, and, like, you know, you, the director like, really has to be obsessed, right?
	Because they do have to.
	They have to do so much.
	Which fork am I fucking choosing, right?
	And you want them to actually care about that shit or else you're going to be watching the thing Dunkirk and you're pissed off.
	They have plastic silverware in fucking 1812.
	And I'm sure that wasn't the right year for Dunkirk either.
	So we're all bad.
	No, no, that's, that sounds good.
	So, so I think that that's, that, that's maybe what, you know, right away, I was like, okay, well, this, you know, he, he loves making movies.
	And I, I know that just from talking to him on the phone.
	And he's funny.
	I mean, I think that's the biggest thing.
	Sometimes you're just like, do I want to hang out with this fucking dude?
	I'm sure.
	Right.
	And it's like, because you go through a whole range of emotions to make a movie.
	I mean, yeah, it's a movie and you're safe, but in the moment, your body doesn't know that it's not real.
	You know what I mean?
	Some shit that you're doing, right?
	And so it can, you know, things can get like, there can be a lot of emotion or a lot of energy.
	And yeah, having somebody that you really like feels important.
	And they paid me so much money.
	Oh, God.
	No, they didn't.
	Give me some money.
	Give me a little.
	Dude, side quest really quick.
	So my friend Josh used to live like, I think somewhere like in kind of like over by East LA.
	And I've known who you were like a decent amount of my life because most of the world knows your name.
	But he said that you lived in his area.
	And I was like, well, what if I opened up a shoe store called These Boots Are Made for Joaquin?
	Right.
	I was like, just to get to meet you.
	That would be the goal.
	The only goal of the whole store was to get to meet you.
	And anyway, that was just like something funny that we thought of one day.
	But if you saw that store, say if you'd driven by a couple times, like, do you think you ever would have stopped in there?
	Absolutely.
	Yeah.
	And I would have just like cleaned the place out for sure.
	Where was this?
	You just come in with a pistol.
	You're like, oh, my.
	Oh, that's not what I meant by clean the place out.
	I was going to do it legally.
	Oh, support the business.
	Yeah.
	Thank you, dude.
	Yeah.
	Does clean the place out mean like I'm here to fuck shit up?
	I think, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I think that terms have changed over time.
	Oh, I didn't mean it that way.
	I apologize.
	See, these are the mistakes you can make.
	But thanks for saying you would have stopped by, dude.
	That's absolutely.
	Yeah.
	No, it's a great.
	How could I not?
	It's a great store.
	Maybe you should still put it together.
	I'll tell you this.
	One day, if I make enough money and I can open up a small place that I could afford to do it on the side, as a thank you to you for coming on the podcast and talking with me, I'll open up a small one near you and I'll surprise you.
	I feel like something like that would be pretty special.
	When it comes to acting, has your approach to acting changed over the years?
	Like as you notice your own evolution with it?
	And if you get tired of talking about acting, we can talk about something else.
	Has my approach change?
	I don't.
	Maybe and maybe not.
	I don't know.
	I don't think so.
	You know, you're definitely more self-aware.
	It's just like you are.
	Yeah, it's just like the nature of doing something, you know, that's like visible and you're out there for whatever, 30 fucking plus years or whatever.
	Maybe more than that, maybe 42.
	But are you self?
	Wow, that's a long time.
	But self-aware in the sense where you're like, you know, all your like, like, do you start to know all the palette you have as an actor?
	Or does that continue to evolve?
	Or does some of it get lessened because you're getting older and you can't, you know what I'm saying?
	You couldn't do the same thing maybe you could as a, as a 27-year-old actor or 21 or 18-year-old.
	Like, does that palette grow or does it dissipate kind of?
	I don't know.
	Maybe, maybe both things.
	And maybe sometimes maybe it just gets refined.
	Maybe just, you know, it's a similar, it's just like a richer color or less rich.
	I don't know what, you know, I don't know what it is.
	Maybe that's what happens.
	Hopefully you have a director that also is familiar with your work and can like challenge you if you're not challenging yourself.
	But I think like, you know, it's like, I don't know, but I imagine, you know, when you're, you know, it's like you see like 20-year-old basketball players coming out and, you know, he's just fucking just going for it, trying to make a name, right?
	He's just doing the thing.
	And at some point, he becomes known, you know, he's suddenly like one of the guys on the team.
	It's a different kind of pressure of like taking that shot, right?
	Because it's like when you're young, it's like, oh, it's scary because it's like, oh, if I fucking miss, maybe I don't get another opportunity.
	But then when you're older and established, it's like, if I miss, there's going to be a lot of press about.
	And people are going to be like, yeah, I paid way too much money to fucking miss that shot.
	Yeah, that dude should not be missing at this point.
	Like, get the fuck out of my head.
	Dude, he wasn't even wearing sneakers.
	Like, what kind of guy do we have here?
	So this is, you know what I mean?
	So I think like, that's what I mean by like being self-aware.
	Like at some point, you feel pressure in a different way.
	Like, I think it's always, no matter what, it's always, like, you always feel the pressure.
	But yeah, I think when you're 20 years old, it's, it's just, it's, it's, it's just different.
	And nobody's really looking at you.
	You know, you don't feel pressure when you walk on set.
	Right.
	So that kind of goes away, but there's this different pressure of like, it's really that these overalls are hanging off my shoulders here.
	Yeah, I don't understand that.
	Yeah, I don't either, actually.
	To be honest with you, I was trying to be like weight of the world on the shoulders.
	I was thinking there's something that goes on shoulders and then overalls came out and I'm like, fuck you.
	No, no, it's good.
	You should stick with it.
	It does sound like screenplay.
	I just felt stupid.
	I was like, oh, this is a really cool saying.
	I don't know it.
	Are there moments when you're acting where, because there's little moments whenever I do stand-up where I feel like people that are like relative or something, there'll be a moment where I feel like my brother, my sister.
	Like there's sometimes where I turn a certain way and it almost feels like my mom.
	Do you ever feel like you channel, like certain parts of you, like people come out of you in certain moments?
	I think I notice it more as I get older too.
	Does it make any sense to you?
	Sure.
	Like you ever turn towards your kids and say something and you're like, I am, that was just my dad.
	Like that wasn't even me doing that.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I definitely in my life have a lot of my dad in me.
	Really?
	Were you surprised that you got so much of it?
	I was.
	And I think I was like the last to know.
	But it was like, yeah, like, dad, like that.
	And then like at some point, I was like, dang, they're saying like, dad, like, those are not good qualities.
	And so.
	Like sleeping in his car, dad.
	Like, dad's, yeah.
	Right.
	And so I then became aware of it.
	But no, I think, I think my dad actually I was aware from fairly young that I think he's probably the greatest influence or I was influenced by his life in my work.
	I don't know if this is making sense.
	I think I modeled so many characters that I've played after him.
	He's dead.
	He's been dead for a while, so I can talk shit about him.
	Yeah, so he can't disagree with you.
	Yeah, so yeah.
	What are you going to say?
	And if he is going to do it.
	I just went, because I was like, don't think your chat dies.
	That's fucked up.
	Make a joke about it.
	And then go, that's even worse.
	No, we weren't sure if he died until you said it.
	I'll be honest with you.
	Don't look it up because he might not be dead.
	We don't.
	I hear the clicking, clacking over.
	If you channel him right now and it's turned into him, that would be crazy.
	Wow, that's kind of interesting.
	Yeah, I think, you know what?
	Sometimes I think I'm like my mom and I never thought I would be.
	And I was always even like rebellious against my mother.
	And then I'm like, you got to be.
	Sometimes I look in the mirror.
	I'm like, you got to be fucking kidding me, you know?
	But then at the same time, it's like that was probably in my life, that was the connection that I wanted the most anyway.
	So it's interesting that that's what God gave me or that's how it, you know, that like, oh, it's like, this is kind of what I always wanted the most.
	And it's oddly, that's part of the most of what I am, you know?
	Yeah.
	Just interesting how sometimes things like that work out.
	Was your dad a funny guy?
	He's very funny.
	I mean, he was, um, he was a ham.
	Oh, he was.
	Yeah, like he loved doing skits for us kids.
	Really?
	And joke.
	Yeah.
	That's cool of him.
	And like joking around.
	Yeah.
	He's very, yeah, yeah, he was.
	And what would he do, like death of a salesman or death of, I don't know what he did for a job, death of like a employee somewhere?
	No.
	He would just have fun moments.
	One of his favorites, which always made us laugh, was something called the fly skit, where he just was literally, he just was a guy reading a paper on a bench and a fly starts buzzing around and he like waves it away.
	Then he tries to like hit it with the newspaper.
	You know, he like rolls it up and like, it's it.
	And finally he goes in his bag and he takes out some bug spray and he goes to spray it just as it lands on his nose and he sprays himself on the face and then like gets all fucked up from the from the bug spray and falls over.
	And like when you're like six years old, that's the most ingenious thing you've ever seen, especially because we didn't have like TV and shit when I was young.
	So that was like high level entertainment.
	Oh yeah.
	Your dad was a damn history channel when you were a kid back in the day.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Or they were, that's so funny to think about.
	I never thought of my parents were like the channels that we had like, because we had some channels, but it wasn't like that.
	You know, it wasn't like every moment was accessed.
	So really people were looked at as a lot more entertainment.
	Like, let me go poke this bear and see what I can get him to do a little bit, you know?
	Oh, that's cool, dude.
	My dad, oh, it's so funny, dude.
	My dad was very old when I was born.
	He was like, he was born in 1910 or whatever.
	And so he was like, everything was very like, you know, and my brother and I would go to, he ran a, the World's Fair was in New Orleans when I was growing up.
	And he ran a, I don't know if he ran, but somehow they let him have the keys to go in there in the morning.
	And he, it was like a souvenir shop for the World's Fair or postcards, stuff like that in the French quarter.
	And he'd always pay this guy, this guy who was a clown, right?
	He'd be like, go get the kids a couple of wieners or Franks, you know, hot dogs.
	So we'd like, I just remember like one of my early memories is just being with my brother and this clown that my dad had given a couple shekels to running us down the street to get us a couple of fucking hot dogs.
	And I was like, oh, it's going to be a fucking interesting road.
	So how old were you when he moved on?
	When he moved on, I was 16.
	And it was weird because I was like embarrassed to my dad because he was older.
	So I didn't want to Introduce him to people.
	I always had like this weird relationship.
	But then I think as a kid, it was fascinating to watch this older guy that you love so much, but you're also trying to keep hidden.
	You know?
	So, how when you were 16?
	I'm going to fail at math.
	I'm trying to figure out.
	I'm trying to figure out if that's how my son is going to think of me.
	Oh, damn it.
	I was 45 when he was 40.
	I think he's going to be fine.
	Huh?
	I think you're going to be okay.
	It's going to be, do not get a cane early, though.
	If you get a cane early, he'll know.
	If you get, I thought about this.
	I was just thinking about yesterday because I got to knock somebody up in the next two years because I need a family.
	But if you get a cane early, he's going to know.
	Right.
	So that's, so I, I was basically, when I, when I had my first son, I was your age.
	And, and it is something that I think about constantly.
	Like, um, and I, cause I just want to be able to be a fun dad and not, and not be this.
	So did your dad die suddenly?
	Can I ask you?
	Is that what I asked you?
	Yeah, it's okay, man.
	Yeah, he got cancer and I didn't even know about cancer that much.
	And he died pretty quick.
	It was pretty sad because suddenly he got like, yeah, it was just kind of sad.
	I mean, it's all sad, but then it was, you know, I don't know.
	Wow, of course it was sad.
	When I think we were fucking, you know, everybody was like getting this champagne out, but he was a ridiculous.
	But my dad couldn't see, he would drive.
	He would take us somewhere, but he couldn't see the lights or anything.
	So he'd be like, what the hell?
	Is it red or green?
	And some we'd get it wrong and he'd fucking just drive out.
	It was all bashful.
	That sounds kind of cool.
	Yeah.
	I think he would have dug it.
	God says that.
	You would have dug it.
	Dang it.
	Wow.
	You would have dug it.
	Did your dad have cancer or no?
	Yeah, he did.
	He did?
	He did.
	Yeah.
	And here's something else that's fucked up.
	Okay.
	My sisters lost his ashes.
	No.
	Yeah.
	We just, it's every couple months, was just somebody will send out a text to the thread be like, has anybody found dad's ashes?
	And it's, because all you can do is fucking laugh because it's horrible.
	It's almost like it's, it's just horrible.
	It's almost really like his last performance.
	I mean, that's a joke.
	Totally.
	It's a great bit.
	It's a fucking, that's, you're right.
	It's his best moment.
	Dad's as anybody found.
	I love that text too, you know?
	Just randomly every once in a while, because it'll occur to one of us.
	We'll be like, yeah, which, where the fuck are dad's asses?
	Did you send that out?
	And still don't know.
	Here's the thing.
	I mean, I'm blaming my sisters.
	Yeah.
	It might have been me.
	I don't know.
	The thing is, is that it's one of those real, like, you know, sometimes you have a vague memory of like, I know we were in here.
	Yeah, no idea.
	I have no idea.
	Like, yeah, do you ever walk in the kitchen?
	You're like, it's kind of like that thing.
	Like, what was I in here to get?
	You know, where did, where did I put those?
	You know?
	Oh, man.
	Thanks for sharing that.
	That's funny.
	I'm glad we even got to laugh about your dad today and my dad.
	That's cool.
	I think our, I think spirits, I think when you laugh about somebody from your like life or something like that, I think they feel that on the other side.
	I think there's like a big connection there that we don't know about.
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	You know, the summertime has a lot of side hustles going on.
	You'll see somebody maybe out there, they out there picking strawberries and selling them.
	Or they got them a little lemonade stand over there popping off.
	And that's all most new business ideas are in the beginning is a side hustle.
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	Have you ever met someone and you were like, I could play that person?
	Like, is that, because that would be like kind of like, I feel like if I were an actor, that would be like my power.
	Like you would corner somebody in a room of a fucking party and you'd be like, I could play you in a heartbeat.
	You know, does that happen with the good actors?
	All right.
	You have to ask good actors.
	I think that I. That's what this is called this past weekend.
	Yeah.
	Well, How did you come up with that?
	Because I just started on a Monday.
	To be honest, I didn't really.
	That's good.
	We didn't have a real drawing board there, Mr. Phoenix.
	I'm trying to think.
	I don't know that there's ever been a moment where I was like, I have to play that.
	I've been inspired by like friend, like I've stolen shit from friends and people that I've met.
	Oh, yeah.
	But I've never, I don't think that I've ever like, like, I'm going to play who.
	Exactly.
	Oh, yeah.
	You get to choose.
	You're the one who can do it.
	Yeah.
	But that's the interesting thing.
	Yeah.
	I just wonder if you had that ability.
	Does that start to get into some people?
	But then maybe that's like some ego in there too.
	You play the broken so well, man.
	You really just have a, I mean, you are just like a harp that is missing some strings, you know?
	But it's really beautiful to watch a lot of times.
	Where does that, why do you think that do you get attracted to those roles?
	It seems like you must in some ways.
	Yeah.
	And sorry to just kind of like pigeonhole you and your abilities.
	I know you have a lot of abilities.
	I definitely, I don't know why.
	I guess, okay, so my dad was he was he was a complicated dude and he there was like a lot of like I want to say dichotomy, but I don't even really, I'm not entirely sure if that's if that's the right thing, but it is like conflict or something.
	Yeah.
	And he was really, he was complex or something like very like sensitive and sweet and thoughtful about him.
	And he grew up in a pretty, pretty tough situation and, you know, was in juvie, very young and had this very splintered family background.
	And, you know, it was like.
	They're pretty affected.
	Yeah.
	Like you, you know, so you'd call like a shit kicker.
	It was like, so, but he also was like, he also was like a fucking hippie and was like, you know, was, you know, vegan.
	Like, um, so, so I think like, I was really, I think he was like so fascinating to, to me, um, growing up because I think I, I saw those things and then that, that existed inside the same person.
	Yeah, let's get fucked up and get a salad, huh?
	Exactly.
	I mean, that's a crazy thing to even think, you know, and I'm sorry to say that just so I was like, dang it.
	No, it's, it was great.
	It was, it was great and it was perfect immediately at that moment.
	So I, I think like that was really, again, I think maybe I was, I'm not, you know, I don't know why, but I think I was attracted to those roles, maybe as a way of whatever.
	You know, connection or just like just curiosity, you know what I mean?
	Like, I feel like he was kind of like the most interesting person to me.
	And I probably wanted to like try and understand him more or something.
	I don't know.
	Maybe or maybe not.
	I don't really know.
	But so I think maybe that's, that's part of it.
	And then like, yeah, I just, I, I love, I was one of those people that whatever limited exposure I had to film or television when I was young, I loved like fucking drama.
	Like I, I loved conflict.
	I mean, I did.
	I loved when shit was like, you know, this seems, she's very bad.
	Whatever's about to happen, she's very bad.
	Oh, no, you are a fucked up person.
	I was fucked up.
	How could you have done that?
	I think that that was interesting to me.
	And I think I also wanted to like try to, I think I always was like curious.
	I think I didn't believe that there was like like good people and bad people.
	So like I was like interested like, okay, well, if this is somebody that's made these like mistakes or bad decisions, how could that, how could that happen?
	Like, what are those, what led to that?
	I think it's just like a curiosity about that maybe.
	Yeah.
	And then some of it, honestly, straight up, some of it also is like, it's not like I walked in and it's like the full fucking salad bar and I can choose whatever.
	There's like a full thing.
	And then they come in.
	They're like, you have, you can actually just from here to there.
	You can have those four options.
	You go, but what about there?
	You go, no, no, you don't.
	That's not for you.
	So part of it is like, get in where you fit in.
	Right.
	Part of it is like, I had a face that just oftentimes looks criminal from like very, from a very young age.
	I noticed that like when I went into the bugging store with my friends, I was the one that was followed around by security.
	They like were like, and I didn't understand why.
	But at some point, I think I kind of realized, I was like, oh, okay, so I'm going to, I'm getting these, these parts.
	And like.
	Yeah, I'm the guy in the master.
	Yeah.
	I mean, you know, or, you know, playing Skeletor in the He-Man commercial, not He-Man.
	Like, oh, this is kind of interesting.
	Yeah.
	I mean, so part of it is like, that's just also the reality, right?
	And there's things where you're like, oh, but I can do that.
	I want to do that.
	And they're like, no, you can't.
	And in some ways, maybe they're right.
	There's also like a point where you're like, okay, how do I, how do I achieve that thing that I'm chasing there in this, in this thing?
	Like, maybe that's the better route for me.
	Like maybe that's the more honest thing.
	And like, hmm, I'm chasing an idea that I think that somebody maybe has of me as an actor and I want to dispel that.
	No, what do you, who, that's not what's important.
	But maybe it's valuable to like chase that quality, but through this, this character's experience.
	that's fascinating, dude.
	Like the Joker, yeah, like I could totally see exactly what you're talking about.
	Like, and I'll think a lot of times in life, we have this, we're chasing an idea of ourselves or a projection that we thought someone else had of us, or even just the archetype.
	I can't even freaking remember that word, dude, from freaking science or whatever.
	The archetype of what we think something is, you know, like the high school quarterback or the prom queen.
	And for our whole life, we're like, instead of being like, well, why don't I just fucking put on this comfortable shoe that fits, or why don't I try to be the quarterback, but he's in the fucking school play and he doesn't have a football, right?
	Yeah.
	And he's a fucking lives in a dungeon or whatever.
	Yeah, because it's probably good to like challenge yourself and challenge expectations, right?
	To not just go like, oh, I guess I'm just that and I'll just be that, right?
	Like there was, I think I did have an ambition, but really my ambition was about like an experience.
	I felt like, I don't want, I don't want my experience to be limited.
	Like that's not, that's not fair.
	I don't want to just play this role in this way.
	Like that's, I, like, I want, my appetite was bigger than that.
	Like it was bigger than I think what I was, what I was told.
	I remember, like, I remember when I was young.
	I remember doing this movie and that one of the other actor was talking to the director and he was like, wouldn't it be cool if, you know, Joaquin did, you know, this kind of movie, you know, kind of like so-and-so.
	And he mentioned this other actor that was like my peer who was like, like the actor, right?
	And the director was like, yeah, but I mean, Joaquin is no so-and-so.
	And he was like, and the other actor was like, dude, that's so fucked up.
	I said the director was like, oh, no, no, I just, I mean that in the best way.
	Like you're a character actor.
	He's no Fred Armitage.
	Yeah.
	Character actors, yeah.
	It's like kind of code for like, you can't really, like, you're never going to really get there, but you'll work.
	And that fucking pissed me off.
	But here's the thing, but it pissed me off because I was like, no, I have more, like, that's not, there's more that will come out, that will come out of me.
	And I just, but I think I ultimately appreciate it because it made me go like, well, how do I find that way?
	Like, how do I find more?
	And yeah, then I'm not going to be able to get in this door.
	And like, yeah, I shouldn't play the quarterback.
	Like, it doesn't make sense.
	Like, if I walked out, then you're going like, well, unless it's like.
	Yeah.
	The defense is going to be on the field a lot.
	Yeah.
	If this guy's a funny quarterback, it's going to be.
	Unless it's like some 80s school comedy, like kids' comedy where like they're a disaster.
	Yeah.
	You know, maybe that, maybe that version of it.
	Yeah.
	Or unless they like siphon in a unique quarterback from another realm kind of.
	Right.
	And his thing is, by the way, let's not give away too much because maybe this is something we should, we should work on.
	But no, I think there was something else you said in there and I forgot what it was a second ago, but it was really profound about, or it was as profound as people can be in a fucking motel somewhere.
	This is a hotel.
	You're right, actually.
	Well, just because in case they're no, you're right.
	You're right.
	I don't want them being upset.
	This is a very famous hotel where a lot of fucking important people have overdosed.
	Let's give it a due.
	And that is true.
	We're at the Chelsea Hotel and it is very unique and fun.
	This is a great place to be whenever you're in New York City, I think.
	You're drinking me now.
	No, no, no.
	I didn't set you up at all.
	No, I, for real, had paranoia and I was like, I don't want to be the person who's talking shit about them.
	But Motel Chelsea sounds dope, to be honest.
	Motel Chelsea.
	Yeah.
	It sounds like.
	It sounds better than Hotel Chelsea.
	Oh, it sounds like somebody my dad met.
	You know what I'm saying?
	That's a problem too, dude.
	Sorry.
	So anyways.
	No, it's all fun, but I think you said exactly what you wanted to say there.
	And I think it's interesting.
	Yeah.
	Because I think it pertains just even outside of acting is how can we do more?
	Or like, how can I find a way to apply myself to this thing?
	How do I adjust?
	Like, what is a new way to do something?
	If I want to get to my goal, and if it's even going to be possible, is there another route, right?
	Like rerouting when your app says that.
	It's kind of like that, which I think is something that people do when they are when they really have a goal that they want to try and attain, you know?
	I just think it's interesting.
	Yeah, it's like, of course, right?
	Resistance, right?
	Like, it's like resistance is important.
	And, you know, just reading like just been reading about dinosaurs, my kid.
	And you're like, oh, shit.
	Motherfuckers were like, hold on.
	There's a very large dinosaur.
	It's got big teeth.
	It's nasty.
	It's mean.
	And what do I do?
	I'm just, I'm, I'm a fucking vegetarian dinosaur.
	What do I do?
	And just like evolution is like, oh, you start growing spikes out of your back or fucking horns and shit.
	And it's just like, it's a reaction to the environment.
	Those motherfuckers, it took millions of years to like react and to change and to evolve.
	And so sometimes when you're like, oh yeah, the director was mean to me.
	He says what he means.
	Like, okay, well, it was fucking nothing comparatively, right?
	So it's just, yeah, I think kind of meeting the challenge in some way is like trying to get to a place of appreciating the resistance and reacting to the resistance.
	I don't know what I'm saying about that.
	No, it's mostly like this, but I think it's fascinating to think how badass a fucking vegan or vegetarian a fucking bronosaurus was.
	Bronosaurus is big, that was the solution, it just got like bigger.
	Who was the biggest vegetarian dinosaur?
	Let's give them a little bit of shine here, you know, and I'm sure Josh Brolin will get to play them in a movie, but we won't.
	This is the bronosaurus tip tip.
	Oh, the dreadnought us.
	Look at that limousine.
	I have not read about him.
	How long have you been a vegan for?
	Vegetarian, vegan?
	Vegan since I was three and a half years old.
	That's just been a whole part of your life.
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	You know what I do like sometimes?
	Radishes.
	Yeah, I just had some.
	You know what I just made it yesterday?
	I made radishes and jalapenos together.
	Fantastic.
	Lemon, salt.
	I like having some salt and water.
	I like fasting recently.
	I've been doing it a lot.
	Have you?
	And I really like it.
	What did you do?
	Just nothing.
	Just water.
	Yeah, just water and a little bit of salt.
	Put some salt in your hand.
	But you even look forward to the salt.
	I would even go to the gym.
	Oh, wait.
	You went to the gym?
	I would go to the gym.
	I'd get home.
	Like, when I get home, I'm having my fucking pinch of salt.
	How long do you fast for?
	73 hours is the longest that I did so far, but I'll just do a day.
	Like I did like 36 hours the other day.
	I feel like I'm doing like a day a week now, 24.
	Yeah, it's great.
	It's good for you.
	But are you sure you should work out while you're doing it?
	No, I'm not sure.
	Maybe you look into that.
	I don't know.
	But I remember doing that and then I didn't feel good.
	And maybe it was that.
	Oh.
	I want to ask you one more question before you leave because I feel like we've had a nice conversation, so I don't want to push the bounds of it.
	I'll push it.
	It's okay.
	You can do whatever you want, man.
	It's fine.
	Do you feel like did you like being a son?
	Is that a weird question?
	Did I like being a son?
	Because I never thought about it.
	I just thought about it like as we're sitting here thinking about that.
	We were both, you know, we had that in common.
	A lot of girls.
	Yeah.
	I got three siblings, one boy and two girls.
	One boy, two girls.
	Yeah.
	Well, I was the second son.
	And my brother was like quite a force and was definitely like, I don't know, it's like mythical or Shakespearean or, you know, maybe it's because he died or something, but he's like, you know, he was like the first son and he was and he was he was incredible and he was such a force within our family.
	He was kind of like the guiding light in some ways.
	He's one of the acted first and we used to sing on the streets and he played guitar and kind of like oversaw everybody.
	He was like the lead singer.
	He was the lead singer and he was the guitarist and kind of oversaw everybody and he and he was such a like a strong but gentle force within the family.
	So I think in some ways, if I'm honest, a lot of my life, like growing up, I kind of was like, you know, like, right, what am I going to do?
	And not a way of like, oh, this sucks.
	Just kind of like, no, hey.
	Yeah.
	Like, cool, like feel secure.
	Yeah.
	Shit's handled.
	That's taken care of.
	Everyone's fucking handy.
	I got three sisters and they're also like amazing and strong in the best way.
	And like, you know, forces like each of them just brilliant.
	And I probably, yeah, for like, yeah, I don't know that I, you know, I just, I didn't, I never, I never felt any weight or pressure about like being the son or anything like that, you know?
	Maybe it falls on the first child a lot.
	I never thought about that.
	I'm I'm sure.
	And I don't know if it fell on him or if he just like took it.
	You know what I mean?
	Sometimes, sometimes it's just like undeniable.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, I'm the, oh, look, look at the two of us.
	I'm the son.
	So to say, like, sometimes.
	Green's working freelance over here.
	Okay.
	Like, I guess.
	It's kind of the truth, right?
	And there was no like, I never, you know, we also, there was like a four-year age difference between us.
	So I never, I never felt those things like, you know, in movies, there's like the brothers are like competing and like angry.
	Oh yeah, like Shakespearean.
	Step brothers.
	That was funny.
	You didn't intend that to be funny?
	Yeah, I did not intend that to be funny.
	Yeah, it still was.
	Our brothers?
	Oh, thank you.
	Yeah, I'm trying to think of other brothers.
	Anyways, this is good.
	This is a good...
	But that's interesting.
	I don't know.
	I was just thinking about being a son because I never really even thought about it myself that much.
	But yeah, if you have that brother, you kind of have that get out of jail-free brother.
	You know, you're like, oh, this guy's got that, dude.
	He's a fucking lead singer.
	I'll be back here.
	I'm the second brother.
	Yeah, I'm the second son.
	My brother was kind of like went AWOL.
	So I was like, oh, shit, I got to fucking pick up.
	I got to like, I got to do some recycling here, you know?
	He's great now, but he was just like kind of like rogue.
	You know, he was like more of like a like troublemaker or just like lost.
	That's what I mean.
	He was like a lost.
	Right.
	Like a lost guy.
	But now he's great.
	And now he's like my hero.
	He's like, you know, it's cool to like be able to still be like in like that everything changes over time.
	And what's the age difference?
	Two years.
	But yeah, he's like a brave.
	What do I admire about him?
	He has a lot of empathy and he's good for like being patient with me.
	Yeah, it's like he has time for me.
	Right.
	And that was something that I think growing up in our place, it was just like, I never, I didn't even know it was possible, you know?
	But yeah, he like, he makes time for me.
	He makes time for me.
	Yeah.
	And I think that that's pretty special.
	That's good.
	You know, one thing That you guys talked about in Eddington was like whose land it is, right?
	That was like a little bit of a theme, it was kind of a sub-theme, I felt like with the Native American, and you guys were like the county or the township butted up against Native lands.
	Where do you feel like it's kind of so weird where we are in the world right now because I feel like people are still warring over lands, you know?
	You think that's and like there's ice raids, like people are getting taken off of lands and like, you know, I don't know.
	I just feel like sometimes I thought we'd be further along in this.
	I don't really know Westerns, but I think that that's like a common thing in Westerns.
	At least that's the, that's the feeling I have when I think about Westerns.
	It might not be, but just like the idea of like, this is my land and I'm the protector of this land and I will fight for this land.
	And so I think that is something that comes up in Eddington.
	And I think that both kind of both figures, both the sheriff Joe Cross and the mayor, Ted played by Pedro Pascal, both believe that they're like fighting for the land, fighting for this town, and that their idea for this land is the right one.
	I was really moved by something that you said when you talked about the war in Gaza.
	And I think that's really courageous to speak about it.
	And you spoke about it in such a honest way that I just thought was really beautiful.
	And it's crazy because what's going on is absolutely so fucking horrible.
	There's no justification for fucking children starving to death in a conflict.
	Like it's that simple, right?
	You don't have to understand geopolitics or anything like that just to get that.
	I know there are conflicts all over the world constantly, but that's something that is, I'm just, it's shocking like how maybe we're afraid to talk about it.
	And oftentimes you're made to feel like you're stupid because you don't understand geopolitics.
	You kind of like, well, I don't have to understand geopolitics.
	Like, you have to understand like human rights.
	Yeah.
	For me, I don't know.
	I don't care about, I don't know if I care about geo.
	I mean, but it's hard to say I live on a land that's kind of been taken from other people.
	But here I am saying like about geopolitics and I understand that.
	But then at what point do you not say something, you know, like, yeah, and we're in a time and just like in Eddington kind of like, and I'm not comparing like any of these two things, but people are watching things on their phones and you can see for the first time some of this like travesty in real time.
	And it just fucking hurts, man.
	It's like, and then you're like, am I crazy for not saying anything?
	But then here we are on a land where, you know, people are living in allotments now, Native American allotments and that sort of, you know.
	Yeah.
	And that's, that's a great deal of pressure.
	And just honestly, just you saying that makes me fucking feel like, you know, under pressure.
	So I go like, okay, yeah, what, you know, what am I, what am I talking about?
	But I think sometimes not acknowledging it is, is wrong.
	Obviously, I don't have the fucking solution, but war always fucking sucks, right?
	That conflict sucks.
	But what's happening, it just is crazy to me, just like just the food distribution that's happening now.
	Oh, yeah, they're locking, they're like hiding it from people or that they're tricking people or that they're, they have to go so far to get it.
	It seems like and why is it like, why is it not the organizations that are typically overseeing that and have, you know, half a century of experience or decades of experience doing it in the different NGOs, and they're not the ones that are overseeing the food distribution.
	It's a new organization, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.
	And so that is, yeah, just really troubling and heartbreaking.
	So it just feels like, how do we not acknowledge that in some way?
	And so, and I think that you did.
	And I like, I don't know when you did that, if you were like, if that made you nervous doing it or.
	Yeah, I think I felt scared.
	Yeah.
	Well, I was, it was, I think that it was, it was courageous and it was meaningful and I think it matters.
	And so, you know, I'm straight up, I'm really here today because I was, I was so moved by what, by what you said and just like the courage to do that.
	I was wondering why you came, to be honest.
	To be very honest in some ways, or not, not in some ways, but but thank you, man.
	I can't even believe that you saw that.
	And yeah, not thank you, but like, yeah, I think that shit just like, I don't know.
	It's just like, it's crazy to think like I'm laying in bed at night and I'm warm and I'm okay.
	And to think that there's like some kid who's never going to put these pieces together, you know?
	And even the kids who have to be alive or the people who still have to be alive, what life do they have, you know?
	Like what, like, I don't know.
	It makes me like, I don't know.
	And then you start to feel ashamed of your own existence in some ways.
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	Yeah.
	You almost feel ashamed to be alive in some ways in a little bit of a way.
	Does it make any sense, do you think?
	Yeah.
	I understand the feeling.
	Yeah.
	I totally understand that.
	It's just a little bit of a feeling.
	That feeling.
	But thank you, man.
	Thank you for, well, yeah, not thank you, but yeah.
	I don't know.
	It's interesting.
	You know?
	But I think it's important today that you do say something like you say, you know, and not to think that this isn't affecting people, you know?
	I think, yeah, that we're human beings.
	We absorb what's going on, you know, and we watch the actors that are out there in the world and it affects us.
	It affects children.
	What are kids doing or seeing those things on TikTok?
	What happens to their brains and stuff, you know?
	Yeah.
	So, but no, I'm grateful to be able to be in a place today and in a country Where we can still say something, you know, and it's not mandated by some other power.
	And who knows if that's coming soon or what's happening.
	So.
	Do you have some inside information?
	I have nothing.
	Okay, good.
	I thought you were looking at me like you knew some shit.
	Okay.
	Well, that's good.
	Is there a you know, I was thinking the other day, I miss Philip Seymour Hoffman.
	I miss him.
	I miss his acting.
	Is there somebody that you miss?
	Like they're acting.
	Or like a Philip Seymour Hoffman.
	I'm trying to think.
	Michael Landon, I miss.
	Who is Michael Landon?
	He did Little House in the Prairie the other day.
	And then what was the heaven?
	Highway to Heaven.
	It was Highway to Heaven.
	It was Victor French.
	Because I think that was one that I tried out for several times.
	You're lying.
	No, I'm sure.
	I'm sure.
	God.
	Yeah, it's definitely in my memory, but that was one of the shows when I was a kid that was popular.
	Yeah, dude.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	He was something special.
	He was a really special.
	Well, so he was this.
	What's happening?
	Oh.
	In between.
	What's this thing here that says 1984 and then RIP?
	What is that?
	Well, apparently he took the highway to heaven.
	He was in the HOV lane in that picture.
	You know, that's all we can do.
	Oh, shit.
	Anyway.
	Hey, hey, listen, you're going back out on the road, right?
	Yeah.
	Is it fun or is it grueling?
	It was fun.
	Like, I think I'm ready to stop doing this hour material.
	It's changed a lot.
	It's like probably 60% different than when I started.
	So it's evolved a lot and adjusted.
	But I'll be happy to get it done when I feel like we've gone to all the places that we can and like kind of, you know, you want everybody to have a chance to see it if they want.
	But I'll be happy to have a chance for my brain to settle down and not always have to feel like I have to go do this thing every other week or every couple of weeks, which is a blessing.
	But still, it's like just this thing on the calendar.
	It's almost like you're always having to take a vacation.
	And so I'll be happy when that, when that's done.
	So I can see what else do I want to think about and do.
	Like, you know, we like, I work with this group called Valor that does like sex and love addiction, intimacy disorder, stuff like that.
	So I want to like just have, I'll just have a little bit more time to do stuff that's not just focused on myself, maybe, I guess.
	I don't know.
	So it's, it sounds, I, I imagine it would be nerve-wracking.
	I can't imagine having to do that.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, like getting up, like, getting up.
	Yeah, like standing.
	It's like just standing.
	That makes me fucking nervous.
	And then, but then you walk around and you have a microphone and you say shit.
	You can do it, man.
	Dude, I'll tell you, and this is, I think, this is the only way to end this is just these boots were made for Joaquin.
	Okay.
	So we have to.
	Perfect.
	Dude, thank you so much.
	Thank you for spending time with me today.
	Thank you for thinking with me today.
	And I just appreciate it.
	It was nice of you.
	And yeah, you just do a great job of like being able to create things that the rest of us can't to make us feel.
	And so that's a gift that you have.
	And I feel lucky that you have it.
	And so thank you for just bearing that gift.
	Oh, man.
	Thank you.
	That's, well, thank you.
	Thank you.
	It's just too much.
	No, I just get embarrassed.
	I just want to go.
	I want to dissect everything you're saying that's nice about me and tell you why you're wrong.
	Yeah.
	But I won't do that.
	And look, let's just thank Motel Chelsea here for this fucking epic suite here.
	And cheers to our dads, man.
	They're out there.
	Cheers to those guys.
	My dad, we don't know where he is still.
	So that's, we're not sure.
	He's somewhere.
	TBD, guys.
	Yeah.
	You know, good luck.
	I hope you find your way.
	Now I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.
	I must be cornerstone.
	Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this piece of mind I found.

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