Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

May 20, 2025 - This Past Weekend - Theo Von

01:49:38

#583 - Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson

Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson is a former NFL wide receiver who spent the majority of his career with the Cincinnati Bengals. He now co-hosts “Nightcap” with Shannon Sharpe and is also a commentator for ESPN. Theo is joined by the one and only Ochocinco while in Miami. They talk about how he navigated his unique and illustrious career, why he only dates moms now, and how he leaned on a sultry profession to survive before the fame… Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson: https://www.instagram.com/ochocinco/ ------------------------------------------------ Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ Acorns: Download the Acorns app and sign up with code THEO20 for your chance to get your refund matched and invested in you. Tecovas: Go to http://tecovas.com/theo to get 10% off when you sign up for email and texts. Manscaped: Go to http://manscaped.com and use code THEO to get 15% off your entire order. BetterHelp: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp — go to http://betterhelp.com/theo to get 10% off your first month. Shopify: Go to http://shopify.com/theo to sign up for your $1-per-month trial and start selling today. ------------------------------------------------ Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: tpwproducer@gmail.com Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Send mail to: This Past Weekend 1906 Glen Echo Rd PO Box #159359 Nashville, TN 37215 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Producer: Trevyn ⁠https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/⁠ Producer: Colin https://instagram.com/colin_reiner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	And we've got some new tour dates to tell you about.
	I'll be in Cedar Rapids, St. Paul, Fargo, Rapid City, Philadelphia, Rochester, Garbage Plate, Detroit, Winnipeg, and Calgary in the Canada.
	All of those shows coming up in June, July, and August.
	Theova.com slash T-O-U-R.
	It's the Return of the Rat Tour.
	It's almost over.
	And thank you guys so much for your support.
	Today's guest is a former NFL wide receiver.
	He's a commentator.
	He's a podcast host and many other things.
	He has a show called Nightcap with Shannon Sharp.
	He had a huge career with the Cincinnati Bangles.
	He's an energy.
	And I'm grateful to spend time today with Mr. Chad Ochocinco Johnson.
	I'm going to go.
	Thanks for coming, Chad.
	You feel okay?
	We're just getting into it?
	Anything you want to talk about?
	I don't want to talk about like having sex.
	Get into it.
	Damn.
	I don't have rules.
	Okay.
	I'm just as crazy as you are.
	Damn.
	If you ask, you ready for an answer?
	Ooh.
	Well?
	Okay, Chad.
	God damn, I look good.
	Fuck.
	I'm coming in a little dark, huh?
	How dark are they?
	I'll do it.
	Is there like a...
	Because you put that right there.
	I'm with me.
	Fuck yeah.
	I don't think we got to...
	No, not enough smoke.
	You do F1 last week, yeah?
	Yeah, I had to go shake some hands, smile, get a few deals done.
	I'm not much of a F1 guy.
	NASCAR, now we talking.
	NASCAR is where it's at.
	Especially for first dates.
	Go to NASCAR?
	What?
	Some of this shit.
	A woman that's never been to NASCAR and you sit in the stands.
	Oh, awesome.
	I got to do something like that.
	I used to take girls, when I live in Tucson, I take them over to the dog track over there.
	Greyhound?
	Yeah.
	Is that a Greyhound track still?
	They had a Greyhound track.
	This is probably about 16 years ago.
	We got the Greyhound track here too, horse track.
	I love that, man.
	You got any nice animals at the house?
	No, I travel too much for pets.
	And I can't deal with death.
	I don't have the death wheel.
	Yeah, I wish sometimes I love to see animals compete against each other.
	Yeah.
	I love that shit, man.
	They had a baby racing the other day at a college game.
	Crawling?
	Yeah.
	That's funny.
	I saw sometimes when they do it at NBA games and the baby's crawling.
	I bet on them.
	You ever had that gambler?
	Dude, I'll fucking I put $1,100 on a four-month-old baby.
	Yeah, a fast little Filipino four-month-old.
	Look, look, this is dope.
	I put half a rack on that bitch.
	Oh, that's a.
	That is funny.
	Dang, look at that one baby stalled out.
	got dementia Oh, they cheating there.
	Stop reaching across the line.
	That's what I don't like that.
	That's the rules of change.
	And look at this little baby right there.
	Uh-oh.
	He want a new contract.
	He just hit the portal.
	He's heading back to his stepdad.
	Oh, they're going the wrong way.
	Yeah, now they got that little Filipino bad boy up top.
	There it is.
	That's Puka Nakua right there up top, baby.
	I'm about to hit the finish line.
	That's funny.
	Do you feel like it was probably, when you look at the players today, do you feel like it was easier for them to be able to pick up stats?
	I mean, the game has changed.
	The game has evolved a lot.
	Obviously, from a receiver standpoint, they throw the ball much more, much more.
	The era I played in, it was more about running the ball to open up the pass.
	So they definitely, I mean, it's a different average.
	They have an added game too.
	So it was a much more difficult.
	And the game is a little bit more lenient in favor of the offensive side because defensive defenders really can't do anything.
	You can't hit.
	They throw flags for everything.
	You get fine for everything.
	I think, you know, my era and the era before me, football in general back then was the true definition of football.
	I mean, it's a gladiator sport.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Why do you think they softened up the rules like that?
	Why do you think they made it like that?
	Honestly, the truth.
	I forgot what era it was when they sued the NFL for all the injuries, all the trauma that players have suffered in the past.
	And they won the lawsuit.
	It might have been a billion or something, something like that.
	And they had no choice but to.
	Oh, yeah.
	The National Football League was sued for failing to protect players from head injuries, which can lead to CTE starting in 2011.
	In 2012, a class action lawsuit was filed consolidating over 4,500 former player cases.
	So they settled that, huh?
	Yeah, they won.
	Damn.
	Those players won.
	And that's why the rules are what they are today.
	I know they always preach about player safety, but that's, I mean, player safety is cool.
	It's understandable.
	But players have gotten faster, stronger, bigger.
	The dimensions of the field haven't changed at all.
	So therefore, injuries are still going to happen.
	Concussions are still going to happen.
	There's no way to prevent that.
	Yeah.
	It's impossible.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, because that's part of it.
	You can't just stop that.
	It is part of it.
	You know what you signed up for.
	You know what you signed up when you make it as a 1% in the NFL.
	It's a gladiator sport.
	It's barbaric.
	It kind of is a little bit of a bummer because you don't really get as many, there's not enough defensive cornerbacks and safeties.
	They don't really get enough love then because you don't even get to know them as much because they can't play as much defense.
	Does that make sense?
	A little bit, but some of them have made a name for themselves that are really good, really, really good.
	The Jalen Ramseys and McDuffie and let me see.
	I can think of running some of these DBs off.
	Sauce Gardner, Derek Stingley.
	Some dudes Are really good regardless of the game changing the way it has.
	Pat Sertain, Lazaria Sneed, really good.
	Jalen Johnson, good.
	Young dude, Christian Gonzalez with the Patriots.
	Man, hey, he's an animal.
	Wow.
	He's an animal.
	And there's another young fella.
	Latino, right there.
	Yeah, there's another young fella in, damn it.
	Horn from the Panthers is really good as well.
	Joe Horn's son?
	Yeah, Joe Horn.
	Hey, he's nice.
	Really?
	So despite the rules being what they are, they've gotten so good technically, you know, trying to adapt to the rules that some of them stand out.
	But it feels like there can't really be that beast out there that's just like clapping dudes.
	The first thing that comes to mind is the safety or maybe linebacker from the Texans who got suspended.
	I think he got suspended maybe once or twice because he plays like he's back in the old days.
	Oh, yeah.
	Who is it?
	Al Shazir, Shazir, something like that.
	Al Jazeera, not him.
	I don't know how to say your name the right way.
	Al Jazeera.
	Aziz Al Shair.
	Yeah.
	Oh, hell yeah.
	He's an op, bro.
	He plays like his Middle East up here.
	He's up here doing some shit.
	He plays football the way football should be played.
	Hell yeah.
	Hell yeah.
	I got to get his jersey, man.
	He's good.
	He's really good.
	But yeah, you don't hear there's not like that Ronnie Lott guy.
	You know what I'm saying?
	They just don't have those bangers or like who was the guy that played for Denver that was just a banger back there.
	Steve Atwater.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Steve Atwater, Bob Sanders.
	Oh, he's old school.
	Yeah.
	He's old school.
	And obviously right there, players should have slid early.
	Slide early.
	Yeah, what do you think about the slide, man?
	Because honestly, as a fan, it doesn't even make it fun.
	If the guy's running, you know, he's going to slide.
	It just seems, I don't know.
	You would almost rather don't do this play or somebody get hit.
	Well, not really.
	And just slide early.
	You know the guys are coming.
	They're much faster than you, especially quarterbacks.
	They're much faster than you.
	And Mahomes is one who's really tricky as he'll purposely slide late to get a penalty.
	Sometimes he'll pretend like he's going down or going to step out of bounds and stay in just a little bit, just a tad second longer.
	Yeah, just let a flag thrown.
	So offensive players are using the rules to their advantage, and it puts the defensive players in a pickle.
	Yeah.
	But it builds it up for people want stats.
	People want to see the scoring.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	You know, so I guess it's just a sign of the times.
	Do you think it can ever swing back the other way or do you think that the legal issues and stuff are going to keep it out of that?
	It would never swing back the other way.
	Because the NFL, they have to protect themselves.
	They got to protect the shield and protect the players on the back end.
	Was it tough on your team when you play with the Bengal?
	Like, I know you play with a couple of different teams, but with any team, is it fun for a receiver if they're running, bro?
	Is it even fun?
	Like, you have to pretend that they're going to pass?
	No, because I like to call myself an all-around player outside of just catching the balls because there were certain things I already knew I would have two people on me every time.
	So that opened up the running game.
	So I had no problem.
	So if you open up the running game and the running game is doing well, then they have to take a safety and get him up off of me and bring him down in the box.
	Now I get to cook.
	So I look at it that way.
	Do you think a lot of players look at it that way?
	Probably not.
	I knew I would get mine no matter what because I was the number one receiver.
	So at some point, the ball was going to get to me.
	But then you have some games you go into and a team will say, you know what?
	Today, 85 is not beating us.
	You're going to have to be somebody else.
	And those games, you know, you do the best you can to keep your composure.
	It gets frustrating at times.
	You know, out there just getting cardio in.
	But you're going to have games like that.
	So if somebody, if you know your team's running, right, but you still have to pretend like they're going to pass, right?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, always, always.
	And I'm really, really ever was lackadaisical because I understood what I mean to us offensively, even when I wouldn't get the ball.
	Right.
	Like even if you're saying if they think they're going to have to keep an eye.
	And if his eye is over here, it's not over here in the box.
	Yeah, most definitely.
	Most definitely.
	So I run them off.
	And was that still fun too?
	Even on those plays?
	Is it still fun to be?
	Yeah, I made it fun.
	I had to because I used that time to talk shit.
	Yeah.
	Can you curse?
	Huh?
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	I curse a lot.
	Okay, cool.
	You can talk shit, dude.
	Who's the darkest dude you ever seen in the NFL, man?
	Like the darkest skinned guy.
	Darkest.
	Because sometimes you see a guy like, damn, like, I've been even with my black friends, and we'll see like a dude that is, and they're like, that's a good question.
	My black friend, like, damn, you see that black guy?
	I'm like, yeah, dude, I saw him.
	But for you to say that, that's a, you know, that's a remarkable.
	I'm trying to think.
	I can't think.
	I'm dark my damn self.
	Oh, you come?
	Yeah, I definitely think you come in.
	People would consider you dark.
	Yeah, very, very.
	I'm trying to get darker.
	You know, I used to tan.
	Oh, yeah.
	It was a tanning bed.
	Did you?
	Damn, but naked just to even everything out.
	I like it.
	Because are there parts, say if you're a, and I've never seen a, uh, I've never seen a full, I don't think naked, darker male, right?
	Right.
	Is there parts of your body that are not as dark?
	You know what?
	Sometimes I would like the chest and the neck area to match.
	And sometimes it doesn't.
	I don't like that because it's always covered.
	I want my legs, chest, and everything one like chocolate dark gold diva willy wonka type complexion.
	Yeah, like them, uh, what's them little things that they give you sometimes at a hotel somewhere nice.
	The little chocolates?
	Yeah, the ones that are wrapped up.
	Sometimes they're red, some of them are blue, some of them are gold.
	Yeah, they're little minty.
	I know what you're talking about.
	What are they called?
	Ladore.
	Oh, no.
	Oh, them.
	Yeah, them Lindor truffles, baby.
	Damn.
	I like those.
	Yeah, bro.
	That's what I'm saying, dude.
	If you had your, bro, if they had Chad Johnson Lindor Truffle.
	That's a good one.
	Bro, that's an elite candy.
	Look at them bitches.
	They wrapped up real nice.
	God, they wearing a damn, just a beautiful panty they got them wrapped in.
	$70.
	God, that's expensive.
	Look at that.
	Them Lindor Changemakers, $320 for one or the package?
	Bro, that's all I'm saying.
	Bro, if they had Chad Johnson Chucklets, that'd be dope.
	It's a good idea.
	I got to look into that.
	Have you done some business ventures?
	Like, what's something you ever got in?
	Because people get into something wild.
	You know, different people get into different stuff.
	Joe Horn have a hot sauce or a barbecue sauce.
	Remember, he went big on barbecue?
	Yeah.
	I'm trying to think of guys from your time that had something wild.
	I mean, I was a New Orleans guy, so I know Deuce McCaller had like a car dealership.
	Well, for me, it would be cigars.
	Oh, really?
	85 cigars.
	Yeah.
	You have a brand of them?
	Yeah.
	Oh, bet.
	I need a number of 6, 80, 85, a number 5, and boom, there they go.
	God, boy, them bitches give your lungs CTE, huh?
	Listen, that's all I do.
	I've never had alcohol.
	Really?
	Never.
	So anytime I have a cigar, I always pair with my coffee.
	I've just finished my coffee.
	Yeah.
	I never had alcohol.
	No drugs, never done anything, but cigars?
	I'm a smoker since 1991.
	Wow.
	Since 91. I smoke two or three a day.
	And this is actually even when I was playing, when I was playing, I would smoke, whether we lost or whether we won.
	Because what is it?
	What is it?
	Just like, yeah, what is it?
	Because that's a pretty kind of a, that's a real relationship with something.
	Yeah, most definitely.
	It's all about the taste.
	It's all about the taste.
	And I'm a fan of really all cigars, whether they're mild, strong, peppery, smooth.
	It doesn't matter.
	I'm a cigar enthusiast.
	Oh, yeah.
	God, I tried to, I remember I used to work for this rich guy and I would, and sometimes he would call me in there.
	He would be drunk.
	And he, the other ladies that worked, I was at an insurance company.
	They had gone home and I was just the guy who was doing the filings and stuff and mailing things.
	And he'd be drunk in here.
	He'd call me to listen to him because he just wanted to just be rich and have somebody hear him be rich.
	So he would sit in there with a big cigar and fucking, he tried to get me to hit them bitches a couple of times.
	Man, God, I couldn't, I just couldn't handle some of it.
	I mean, my hands swell up.
	One of them made my hands real straight.
	I think he was smoking some shit that they had, you know, they put some other shit in it at the house or whatever.
	Because I couldn't even bend my hands for almost 40 minutes after smoking them bitches.
	Did you inhale?
	Huh?
	Did you inhale?
	Yeah, I tried my best.
	You're not supposed to inhale.
	You're supposed to taste it.
	Oh, I like to hit that.
	It's an acquired taste.
	Yeah.
	And he didn't teach me like that.
	He just like.
	He just gave it to you.
	Oh, yeah.
	He was complaining, something, you know, the oil or whatever.
	And I was, and I did, if I had to finish filing that afternoon, probably like this.
	Yeah, that's like a platypus in there.
	You fucking figure shit out, man.
	But yeah, I didn't know that.
	So you never had alcohol, huh?
	No, I never, I never will, man.
	But did something turn you off to it when you were young?
	I think it might have been my mom.
	She drank?
	Yeah, she, oh, did she?
	Damn, man.
	She drank like a fish, you know, morning, noon, night.
	You know, and seeing her become somebody I didn't even recognize, I think that's why I stayed away from it because it always starts young.
	Anytime you have a habit that you stay away from, you have the discipline to do it.
	Most people say, oh, you're so disciplined.
	No, say, no, I'm not.
	I saw something in my mom when I was younger that let me know, you know what, I'm not going down that path.
	I just never did it.
	And did she, is she still alive?
	No, she passed away from alcohol poisoning.
	From cirrhosis of the liver?
	Yep.
	2021.
	I never forget.
	And I knew that I got that phone call.
	I got that phone call and I knew something was wrong because it was family members calling.
	Family members never call, especially like that back to back from different family members.
	And I kind of already knew what it was because my brother had already called, so I already know nothing's wrong with him.
	Right.
	And I had a feeling what it was.
	And say, come down to the house.
	Your mama's, she's passed out.
	They couldn't even open the door.
	She was right there, right there by the door.
	And obviously the autopsy came back and passed away.
	Drank herself to death.
	That's my baby, though.
	Thanks for sharing that.
	Yeah, man.
	I, you know, I've been in recovery and struggling over the years from drinking.
	And a lot of my friends, you know, it's part of a lot of people's universe these days.
	Yes, sir.
	What a, and how do you try?
	And I even have a family member.
	We try.
	I've done intervention and stuff.
	Did you guys ever try to do something like that?
	Is that hard as a son?
	Because I bet it's kind of tough with a parent because they're kind of, you still have to look up to them.
	It was very difficult.
	And it was so difficult that I couldn't do it.
	And she wouldn't listen to me.
	You know, you can lead a horse, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
	So she has to want to get to help herself.
	And they can't drink alcohol.
	Yeah.
	They listen.
	And so I even went as far as we were on marriage boot camp, but it was family edition.
	I think WeTV, I forgot what it was.
	There's a show that you did?
	Yeah.
	So her and I, it's all about a mother and son or a mother and whatever a family member it was.
	You're trying to mend the relationship and whatever issues you have.
	So I took her on there and more, she cut a fool.
	She cut a fool.
	Oh, she didn't want to do it.
	She cut a fool.
	Obviously had alcohol out.
	They had all this stuff.
	And it was her and I, you know, two weeks, two weeks straight.
	We went through different activities.
	They had two therapists, two doctors there.
	And there it is right there.
	And man.
	Oh, she's beautiful.
	What's her name?
	Paula.
	Paula Johnson.
	We call her Hurricane Paula.
	Category.
	Hey, listen.
	Category 85, huh?
	When she gets upset, it's a hurricane.
	It's a hurricane.
	And listen, she showed out in that show, man.
	That's my baby.
	She showed out, but she just wouldn't.
	She left the show early.
	She didn't even finish the show.
	She left early.
	Cuss the producers out.
	Cussed the rest of the cast made.
	She didn't want it.
	Nah, she didn't want to get the help I wanted, man.
	But that's my baby.
	There was a funeral scene we did.
	There was a funeral scene we did where she was like, close the casket.
	So it was me in a casket.
	Now, how would she feel if I was to pass away?
	Oh, man.
	She showed out.
	Oh, she showed out.
	Close the caskets.
	Let his baby mamas roll him in.
	Oh, it was hilarious.
	Oh, she made it funny?
	Oh, man.
	No, she was dead serious, though.
	Oh, she was pissed.
	She was pissed.
	So that was the introduction to baby mamas.
	Yeah, close that bitch and let his baby mamas roll his ass up out of here.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And so people were, that's hilarious.
	Yeah, the world was introduced to her kitty pony.
	And she didn't play.
	That look alone, she didn't take any bullshit, huh?
	No, she didn't play.
	But did you get that?
	I meant that.
	But I said, listen.
	I haven't been a part of his life, and he hasn't been a part of mine.
	He got his kids and baby mamas.
	Line him up.
	Let him roll his ass out.
	You said you wanted to close the casket earlier.
	No, you close it.
	I don't work for the funeral, huh?
	Next one.
	Children come close.
	Sit down, Paula.
	Sit down, Paula.
	Never.
	You could never tell Paula today.
	She's a legend.
	She's a legend, especially in our area.
	We have a thing.
	You're not really a friend of mine if you haven't been cursed out by my mom.
	That means you ain't been around long enough.
	And that's how she was.
	And we loved her just like that.
	And I never got a chance to say goodbye.
	I never got a chance to say I love you.
	But I had the messages save before she passed away.
	And it's her cursing me out.
	Yeah.
	I mean, let me have it, letting it rip, like paragraph, paragraph you.
	And I wouldn't want it any other way.
	Yeah.
	I wouldn't want any other way.
	Because that's who she was.
	That's who she was.
	That's fair.
	If you have a family member, they'll send me like some of the texts they send, shit in caps and modes.
	Things don't even make any sense.
	I can't even read it.
	I'd already know what it is, right?
	But at the same time, that's who they are, you know?
	You have to love people where they're at.
	It's tough, though.
	That's a tough time.
	I think so many people deal with that.
	How do I love a family member that's struggling?
	Because you can even give them things.
	I mean, even you're able to provide them.
	Yeah.
	And the funny thing about it is, is I had to stop the bleeding as well because an individual like that, they will use, oh, I'm your mama as a reason for you to keep giving, giving, giving, giving.
	And the taker doesn't know when to stop.
	It doesn't know when to stop.
	And there was no appreciation behind it because no matter how much I did, it was always an issue.
	So even at that point with mom, I even had to deal with her from arm's length at a distance, you know?
	And it was cool.
	My grandma raised me so her and I weren't really eye to eye most of the time.
	But man, when the times were good, oh man, but when it was bad, I know.
	Oh, we talk about entertainment.
	Like her see, her being on that show was able to introduce the world to who Hurricane Paula was.
	And she was TV gold.
	She was TV gold.
	Oh, dude, that little bit right there.
	It almost reminds me of that woman in New York when she was at her best.
	Remember?
	Yes.
	When she was at her best.
	Like her best moments remind me of something just like that.
	Oh, that's interesting.
	And at least you have that also, a moment of you guys' time together, you know, to look at.
	I bet she was super proud of you, though.
	Was she able to express that to you?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	She was proud of all the things I was able to accomplish, you know, obviously during my days in NFL, all the stuff that I did off the field.
	But she was so unpredictable.
	I couldn't take her to important stuff.
	Oh, yeah.
	Because, you know, red carpets, stuff like that.
	I couldn't have her in those rooms because I don't know what Paula was going to show up.
	I didn't know which mom was going to show up.
	And I didn't want her to embarrass me in those moments, moments that would be we're supposed to be celebrating, whatever achievement it may be.
	But listen, if the wrong person is there and she sees, she might snap.
	Yeah.
	It doesn't care about the surroundings or the environment.
	So I had to be cautious.
	She'll get a pass interface.
	She'll get a defensive pass interference quick and don't care.
	And don't care.
	Yeah.
	Wow, dude, that's so interesting because that's also, it has to be wild because that's where you obviously got a lot of your banter and ability to accept things, even if they're in a dangerous space to keep.
	Because one thing that's interesting, I think, about you, Chad, and this is kind of, it may be judgment, but it's just me kind of from the outside perspective is even if things are chaotic and crazy for other people, you're still able to have this sense of humor that things aren't even, not that it doesn't matter, but that it's not affecting you.
	Yeah.
	I think because of my upbringing and me being able to operate well in a chaotic environment, and I'm very comfortable being uncomfortable.
	Very.
	It doesn't matter what's going on.
	I love chaos and I operate well in chaos.
	Very well.
	It doesn't matter what it is.
	Now, will you also create the chaos just to then slide in and operate in it?
	Yes.
	Think about during my time playing.
	Yeah.
	I was very chaotic.
	I purposely tried to piss the NFL off, purposely, because I understood the game is an entertainment sport.
	So therefore, I'm going to bring just that, the entertainment value part to it.
	They didn't see it that way, but all of a sudden, everything I was vilified for now is a green light.
	Everybody's celebrating.
	Everybody's having fun.
	Good point.
	I understood what I was doing.
	And look where you're at now.
	You're in a space where you're still entertaining, right?
	Still going.
	Still going.
	So in a little bit of a way, you're kind of before your, you're kind of before your time with that.
	Yeah, wait.
	And it takes, it takes other, it's even like with podcasting.
	At first, they thought podcasting was crazy.
	These people aren't doing shit.
	They're out here doing, we got networks.
	We got all of this.
	And then you know as well as anybody.
	I mean, half your times when you're doing shows with Shannon, you're just sitting there on your phone or computer.
	He's in a studio sometimes, but sometimes you're showing up from wherever.
	Yeah.
	From your home, you just tapped in off a laptop.
	And that's, that's, you know.
	Yeah, I started the podcast thing early too.
	I think in 2010.
	Let's go.
	Tara Lohens and I had a show called The Teocho Show.
	And that was the first form of podcasting in a sense, I think that there ever was.
	Dude, I remember, so I lived in LA for maybe 11 years.
	I remember I went one time, I was meeting some girl.
	I think I met her off the internet or something, but I was going to take her.
	She's like, will you take me shopping?
	And I was like, fuck.
	Shopping?
	I know.
	And I was like, yeah.
	Is this before or after sex?
	This was before sex is before a handshake.
	And so, but I knew I wasn't going to take her anywhere nice, you know, I was, but I still wanted to, I think I was just susceptible.
	Right.
	So I'm like, where can I take this girl that's not expensive, but American apparel?
	That has H ⁇ M. Right, right.
	So that's kind of the district I took her in.
	Right.
	Anyway, she's looking at shit and everything.
	And I saw Terrell Owens and Macaulay Culkin having lunch together.
	That's dope.
	God.
	And it was beautiful.
	It was almost like seeing a Loch Ness Monsters or a Sasswite.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Who would ever see that?
	You know, something like just sometimes you see certain groups of people in the wild.
	It's just beautiful.
	But what made T was it was T, because you guys were also teammates.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	He was in Cincinnati.
	Was he as entertaining?
	Absolutely.
	And I got to think, we were friends before that.
	I remember I stood on the table for tea and I knew we had an opportunity to get him.
	So I talked to Marvin Lewis.
	I talked to Mike Brown.
	I said, we got to get T in here.
	We got to get T in here.
	As much as I've accomplished here as a Cincinnati Bengal, can we please get one of the greatest players to ever play top three all time no matter what?
	I have no problem taking a back seat and being here as Robin.
	Really?
	Oh, absolutely.
	With nothing but respect.
	So I couldn't wait.
	And T and having T in that locker room and watching him practice and having a great understanding on his approach to the game of football, man, that was a treat.
	And I think it's a treat.
	I've never had a chance to actually sit there and tell him how much I admired him in general as not only a player, but his approach to the game of football.
	And I got a better understanding on why he's one of the greatest of all time.
	Yeah, man, it was a joy.
	Was his approach?
	Like, what made it so special?
	His approach.
	I know, I mean, there's rumors that he sleeps in like a barbaric chamber or something.
	All of that shit.
	He's sleeping in like a hollowed-out missile or whatever.
	I'm the complete opposite.
	You know, T.O. was very massage's, hyperbaric chamber, ice tub, cold tub.
	He eat right, salad, all this stuff I didn't do.
	And I'm McDonald's, cigars, complete opposite.
	I live totally different sides of the spectrum.
	So it's just being around a man, it was such a joy.
	And I was a sponge.
	And he doesn't even know it.
	I took as much as I could from him in that moment, you know, in that year I had with him.
	And still to this day, very good friend of mine, man.
	Very good friend.
	Well, I've never gotten to meet him.
	A lot of people are getting their tax refunds right about now.
	And it's always smart to invest a piece of your refund.
	But this month, it's twice as smart because Acorns is giving you the chance to get your tax refund matched and invested in you.
	Acorns, it's a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future.
	I just got my nieces and nephews set up with some Acorns accounts.
	I love the way they do investing.
	You don't need to be rich.
	Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change.
	You don't need to be an expert.
	Acorns recommends a diversified portfolio that can help you weather all of the markets ups and downs.
	And don't forget, sign up for Acorns now and you could be one of 100 people to get your tax refund matched.
	Just download the Acorns app and sign up with code Theo20.
	That's right, T-H-E-O number two, number zero, Theo20 for your chance to get your refund matched and invested in you.
	No purchase necessary.
	Open USBC League residents who are 18 plus.
	Void permitted.
	See rules and all free method of entry at acorns.com slash contest dash and dash promotions.
	A client endorsement.
	Compensation provided and a depository promoting Acorns.
	Tier 4 compensation provided.
	Investing involves risk.
	Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor.
	Two important stores.
	Acorns.com slash Theo.
	Starting your own business can be intimidating.
	It can be surprising also.
	You know, you get a business going and suddenly you realize all the other hats you have to wear.
	You have to be your own accountant.
	You have to be your own organizer, your own booker, your own scheduler, your own supplier.
	There's just so many different things that come along with doing it yourself.
	It was hard for me in the early days of this podcast.
	And it would have been easier if I'd have had a partner like Shopify.
	Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. From household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started.
	Get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready-to-use templates.
	Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand's style.
	Turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side.
	Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash T-H-E-O.
	Go to shopify.com slash Theo.
	That's shopify.com slash T-H-E-O.
	Anywhere worth going is worth going in good boots.
	Find your perfect pair with Takovas.
	I've found mine.
	God, I love my little set of giddy uppers.
	Takovas.
	You ever wondered if you can pull off boots with your personal style?
	Well, you owe it to your feet to pull on a pair of Takovas.
	Find comfort in the traditions of the West.
	Every one of Takova's boots are handcrafted with over 200 meticulous steps for broken in comfort right out of the box.
	I love my Takovas.
	I just love them.
	I got those work-toed and it's just, I feel locked in.
	Dang it, I feel like I could just change the tire on a dang Conestoga wagon.
	Plus, with Takova's Best in the West guarantee, you get free returns and exchanges for 30 days.
	Right now, get 10% off at tacovas.com slash Theo when you sign up for email and texts.
	That's 10% off at T-E-C-O-V-A-S.com slash T-H-E-O, Tacovas.com slash Theo.
	See site for details.
	Tacovas, point your toes west.
	Yeah, some things are interesting, like if you game, like if you, if you get like some popularity in your life or something happens, you get to meet different people.
	Well, it had to be crazy in your world because you kind of go from a college, right?
	And I know you went to SMC.
	I went to SMC.
	You did?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I was the SMC.
	I went to SMC.
	Yeah, man.
	The SMC was wild, bro.
	Yeah.
	Because there was nowhere to fucking park.
	So, dude, it was like, I would drive to school.
	And if I didn't park, I wasn't learning.
	That was it.
	I took the bus.
	I took the bus down.
	Bus down Pico.
	I never forget.
	At that time, I had a young lady I was dating.
	She lived in the jungles across from Dorsey High School, right off Coliseum in the third building.
	I'll never forget.
	And I would take the bus.
	I would take the bus to school.
	What was you like playing?
	Because that was a community college, but it was probably a really good program they had.
	It was the best thing they could have.
	It was good.
	Especially back then.
	Obviously, Steve Smith Sr.
	He was on the team with me.
	And I needed that.
	I needed to get out of the environment out here in Miami to.
	Because this is where he started out at.
	Yeah.
	With AB.
	Was AB running when you were running?
	Well, he was a little younger.
	Yeah, AB.
	But didn't you hear about him or no?
	Yeah, I watched him in high school when it was at New Orleans.
	Yeah, I've been watching AB for years.
	And his dad was also from Miami?
	Troy.
	I'm not sure.
	Was it Troy?
	Hollywood Touchdown Brown.
	Who is that right there?
	That's Eddie Brown.
	Touchdown Eddie Brown.
	That's AB's daddy.
	His father.
	That's AB's dad?
	That's his dad.
	Serious?
	Yeah.
	His father had the most touchdowns.
	He still holds a record, I think.
	For arena football.
	Most touchdowns in arena football.
	Wait, that's his dad for real?
	I didn't know that.
	Touchdown, Eddie Brown.
	Oh, that's dope.
	But I don't know how many siblings and stuff he has.
	He gets put on the CTE bus a lot.
	You know, he gets put on that baby bus.
	Do you think that's true or do you think it's true?
	And he played into the CTE thing real well.
	And you know, his CTE, his CTE SPN.
	Hilarious, dude.
	Hey, it's hilarious.
	It's hilarious.
	and he's kind of bridging a little bit he does a little bit of racial bridging kind of yeah a little bit because he'll call people name you know he'll call some guy crack or some guy the n-word he'll mix he'll call it age the n-word you know hey there's no he's he's in a space right now where he knows what he's doing and he knows how to get that traction he knows how to get that reaction and i cheer him on because i do find that it's interesting where he's at and i hope he can figure out the best way to manage it you know i mean look at this hey listen he
	he's a he's on the right he's on a historic run right now he's like he's on a historic run in his own lane doing what he does i love him to death i love him to death you know um obviously a friend of mine before football oh really yeah before football yeah it just goes way back and that that's someone i will always support whether whether it's up close whether it's from afar um you know his decisions that he makes you know that's him he's a breeze a grown man but it's one thing about him i'm gonna always love him he no that's nice to hear man yeah
	there's i will say this there's something extremely lovable about him right yeah it's like whatever he does or what he's like anything he's saying like him as a person he has such a like a warm energy and smile and now i haven't seen like a darker side of him there maybe i don't know but he's got such a smile that it's like you want to get on you want to hear what's going to get what's going to happen with him yeah he's very very interesting very very unpredictable unpredictable that's what makes that's what makes it so awesome because you don't know what the fuck excuse me you don't know you can curse you can curse you
	don't you don't know what the is gonna happen next because i don't even think he know he might know but he you're like i'm gonna ride with him even if every every everything a b does right now is is strategic it's strategic it's planned out and he's two steps ahead of everybody else yeah i love hearing that yeah belichek really opened the portal with the dating a young lady man yeah i mean yeah i had an opportunity to work with bill this past season on nfl films so bill was there with me and ryan clark and chris long and do you get to meet his girlfriend
	then no i don't no no i didn't i didn't meet her i didn't meet her i think i might have saw her once i mean people are over they're almost overshadowing his acumen and what he's done with her you know the media will do that a lot of times yeah yeah i mean bill bill is bill bill's going to be able to do what he wants to do uh his resume speaks for itself and uh i'm excited for bill obviously and what he's going to do turning that unc program around and getting another opportunity to coach in the nfl yeah now what he decides to do with his personal life that you know that's one thing i stay away
	from you know i always stay away from stuff like that yeah did yeah because i'm trying to think because my dad was 70 when i was born my mom was 32 right so okay they had what is bill's difference in it 74 and 23 right so yeah i mean you know i didn't love having an old if they had children i don't know if i loved having an old dad because you know it's like a limited time offer you know every time you see him that the clock is you know oh the clock is ticking heavy is gonna make a draft pick you
	know so you start to see that 49 year age gap but who knows if they're in love yeah listen love who loves you love who loves you that's that's that's all i can say do you feel like it's risky like with uh athletes and stuff there's a lot of like you know there's a lot of potential for to get in a sticky situations because a lot of athletes they're you know they're people
	know that they have money yeah they're they're in great shape you know it seems to be like it happens more often than not these days most definitely most definitely you i mean you got it you got to be cautious you got to be weary and always understand that you know sometimes most of those that you'll deal with most of those who will deal with you it's because of what you can do and not who you are how do you try and figure that out like uh you can't you don't think you can't figure it out because because you thought you have you always have to lead lean into
	it with that same thought process like what are you saying you have to understand especially when you have money and you have things going on for yourself would you be able to get the same girl that's with you now if you didn't have it nine times nine times out of ten absolutely not not that's just that's reality i don't know that go that goes for every that goes for any and everybody you know like that's just life that's just the way it is if you could if you lost the ability to provide the woman you're with right now would she still be there and
	that's probably for any man really almost in any space period if you lost the ability to provide yeah period or do the things or or give her the lifestyle that you've been able to what was she doing before you came along yeah and look what you've done with that certain individual that you're with you know and depending on how much money you have your leases very long and when things hit the roof most of the time when she leaves you she has to take that money with her to continue that lifestyle oh yeah that's a tough spot then because your money is gonna get uh kind of
	uh divided up yeah do you have you have a lot of you have a decent amount of children yeah a lot 85.
	you have 85 is that your goal yeah yeah well you gotta get but then also the people i've had kids with we were all on one accord i only dated women that were athletic i'm not having kids just to just to have kids oh so they have some strategy yeah there was strategy behind mine i don't care about you being a bad bitch i don't care about you being on ig with your ass out no bbls i don't i mean that's fine whatever you need to do to to feel better about yourself that i'm fine with that but
	i needed and only dated women that were athletic so my kids had a head start on that foundation of athletic ability that's it so i look at women i look at ankles yeah because i look at some track do you see some of them track women yeah my daughter run track at university of kentucky now oh really y'all live in nashville man that's not far for real yeah if you go up to a gate if you go up to see a meetup come up there and meet up with you guys in lexington yeah dude that'd be awesome yeah because i bet they'll also run against lsu i want to let you if they run against lsu or
	vanderbilt dude that'd be sick bro i'll come up there man yeah and i i don't have i never have really had this there she is yeah this is when she was young.
	And she's good, huh?
	Oh, yeah, she can go.
	She can go.
	She can't beat me, but she can go.
	Do you think she'll be able to beat you at some point?
	Absolutely not.
	Because before my, any of my kids, listen, before my kids beat me in anything, I would trip her.
	I'm just being honest.
	I would trip her before she beat me.
	Not happening.
	Not happening.
	Dang, so you, so was her mother athletic?
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, dude.
	You see those track ladies?
	All of them.
	Did you cheer?
	Did you play volleyball?
	Did you run tracks?
	Volleyball, yeah.
	I mean, just, I just need to see.
	Did you cheer?
	Sometimes you get these little nuggets.
	Hey, you get them little Mac nuggets.
	But I know, I can tell.
	Because when I go on dates, I like to go places where you have to show me athletic ability.
	Go to Dave and Buses.
	Can you shoot?
	Now, if you don't have no form and can't shoot, I can't do nothing with you.
	We go bowling.
	Go roller skating.
	Oh, that's a good one.
	So I hold my own.
	Roller skating, baby.
	That's ice skating for black people right there.
	That's what that is, dude.
	The combine.
	I hold my own combine.
	They think we're going on dates.
	Little do you know, I'm really, I'm taking notes.
	Okay, you can bowl.
	Okay, you don't really have any coordination skating, but I can work on that.
	Come on, Chase.
	Yeah, go to the gym.
	Oh, check.
	Gym date?
	Oh, please.
	Take him to the gym on a second date?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	First date, Dave and Busters.
	You know, check out coordination.
	Let me see how your lateral movement is.
	That's, hey, are you laughing?
	That shit is important.
	No, it looks like.
	Sometimes, listen, some of these guys.
	No, that's a good point.
	Yeah, they date women.
	Oh, she's so fine.
	She's on IG Live.
	She fine as hell.
	Blah, blah, blah.
	You have a child.
	Your child got two left feet.
	And you wonder why your child get picked last in PE.
	Yeah, your child out there.
	He's swimming a little circle.
	Yeah.
	Oh, they come home sad.
	Nobody picked me.
	Nah, fuck that.
	Yeah, fuck that, dog.
	Yeah.
	If she can't play kickball, I'm out.
	Oh, dude.
	That's because that's a good test of a lot of different sports at once.
	A lot.
	Run and kick it at the same time.
	You know how hard that is to do?
	Very hard.
	In coordination to be able to run forward and kick.
	Kick.
	In rhythm.
	Yep.
	That's the fucking Mozart of athletics to me.
	Boy, kickball show you a lot.
	Yep.
	Absolutely.
	That's what I'm saying.
	But there's a lot of traps.
	A lot of people don't think like that because you have to think too.
	So do you think, do you think a lot of men, because I feel like a lot of, let me get this right.
	So in the NFL, they got a lot of guys, it seems like, who want to have a lot of children, right?
	Do you think that that's true?
	No, I think at times.
	Like, is that a stereotype?
	With black, you get caught up in the moment.
	They have a lot of guys who want to have a lot of children.
	There are a lot of white guys too.
	They have a lot of kids as well.
	But I think we just get caught up in the moment most of the time.
	I think our counterparts, on the other hand, they have a little bit more, a little bit more discipline in that area, but I think they, they, they're not as bad as us, I mean, white guys.
	Okay, so white guys versus black guys.
	I'm not even looking at it like in a, I guess I am looking at, obviously, in culture.
	Right.
	I'm not really looking at it in race, but I'm looking at it in culture.
	So I'm thinking in black culture, is it more of a thing to have?
	It happens a lot because we get caught up in the moment.
	Okay.
	We get caught up in the moment.
	Now, I'm one who's one of those.
	And y'all like to spike the ball, yeah.
	But for me, everything I've done was strategic and not done on purpose.
	There was a method to my madness.
	There's a method to my, nobody's, I'm not having kids.
	Nobody's running to child support and old chat.
	No, no, because we all had one end goal.
	You understood what it was.
	And I also had kids with people that I've known before I even made it.
	So there were no ulterior motives like most have when you meet them once you've already had money.
	Yeah.
	So it's giving me some thought of the equinox or something.
	And you have a child and the first thing you wonder why things don't work out.
	Yeah.
	Not things most times don't work out.
	But no, it's like, yeah, you don't know who you're, you don't, you're putting yourself at risk.
	Yeah.
	So you're saying instead of risk, straight, you have more strategy.
	Yeah, most definitely.
	Most definitely.
	Most definitely.
	Yeah, because I just wonder, sometimes I wonder in black culture, do they view, do black men view the world differently?
	Like, is there a, do they view it more as like a, I'm a king and this is my castle?
	Nah.
	I don't.
	You know, that's just how I wonder sometimes.
	Or like, yeah, like, is there strategy sometimes?
	Well, I gave you mine.
	Right.
	And I've always lived by that, no matter who it was.
	I don't care how fine you are.
	I'm not here to raise models.
	I want athletes.
	So therefore, I'm going to procreate with those who give me just that.
	You might be able to do that.
	Listen, you have fun and go on dates and with those who are not that.
	But when it comes to having kids, oh, oh, honey.
	Uh-uh.
	I don't care how fine you are.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	You got a kid.
	Your kid walking at three weeks.
	Running at four.
	Yeah.
	For his first birthday, you get him a hurdle.
	Do you think, what else am I thinking about?
	Do you think that's a good one?
	Do you think there's a lot of gay?
	They just had a guy they were talking about, a gay gentleman in the NFL.
	Do you think there's more gay men in the NFL that we just don't know about?
	Absolutely.
	And they're afraid to say it.
	They probably don't want to.
	It make people uncomfortable.
	And the media would make it a big deal.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I'm sure it is.
	I'm sure it is.
	And I wouldn't have a problem with it.
	You know, I'd be the one making jokes.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, listen, I'd be the one making jokes.
	I don't care what you are.
	Gay, trans, ABC.
	I don't care.
	I'm accepting of all.
	Yeah.
	And I would have to be a little bit more.
	But yeah, I would still kind of caught up on them.
	Oh, yeah.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	And it's probably for the best because if you get some good jokes going, that's the thing about joking all the time.
	It's like they tried to make joking a crime over the past like 10 years.
	Everything is, everybody's very sensitive.
	Yeah.
	That's one reason I like AB is because he just, you know in his heart that he probably doesn't have a lot of malice in that world.
	Right.
	But he likes to have fun.
	You know, that's one thing I think that black culture does better than white culture does is tell jokes.
	Dude, if you get around and you start clowning on somebody, but you're right there with them.
	They know you're supported.
	Yeah.
	But man, that's an interesting.
	And then you know the next bullet is coming right.
	The next time they get a chance is coming for you.
	Yeah, most definitely.
	That's the most fun, dude.
	Yeah, I don't know why people are, they call it homophobic, you know, I think.
	And I think that's one of the reasons a lot of players don't want to come out, you know, or people in general that might swing the other way.
	I mean, shoot, fuck it.
	Just, it is, it's who you're living your truth, and plus, they got some gangster gay dudes out there, bro.
	It's not like the gay dudes 20 years ago, yeah, yeah, everybody was feminine, nah, yeah, they got whatever, they got drawing a rainbow bright or something.
	They got gay dudes to beat your ass, literally, literally, listen.
	I've always been fond of that, that community they've always showed love to me, and I've always showed love back.
	Oh, yeah, they got some severe gay dudes.
	there's a song right there by eves I've never heard this goot sing that.
	That's great.
	This is great.
	Yeah, it's funny.
	It's funny, especially where we are in the world right now, that some people, based on occupation and based on what you do, you really can't come out because it can jeopardize what you have going on.
	But it feels like the only place that is kind of, well, maybe there's, I'm sure there's probably like some like probably farming communities, like, you know, I bet there's probably farming communities and maybe the in and maybe athletics, but I don't know.
	In women's athletics, it's accepted.
	Oh, it's accepted.
	Yeah.
	It's probably just in men's athletics.
	Do you think that there's a, if you took the gay players from all the team, you think you could make a, you think you could make a gay team in the NFL?
	No, probably not.
	So you don't think there's enough gay men to make a team?
	No, no, not that many.
	Which division you think in the NFL probably have the most gay players?
	I have no idea.
	That's a good one.
	I have no idea because I don't know everybody's preference.
	Right, but if you had to guess even just by looking at some of the, let's pull up the, just pull up the.
	That's the funny thing about you can't look at somebody and tell.
	No, you can't, but I'm just saying look at some of these records, though.
	The Cowboy, bro.
	That's last year, no.
	Oh, okay.
	Hey, that's a good one.
	I mean, to be able to statistically rate how many people would be, you would never know.
	Right.
	You would never know.
	It would be funny to have friends.
	But I will say this.
	I think it would be great if they had a gay team.
	You think so?
	Yeah, because you know how many people get mad for them?
	Oh, it would be huge.
	People always want the underdog, right?
	They always want the underdog.
	Would they really be the underdog?
	That's a good point.
	Would they really be the underdog?
	Right, but I think they would be billed as the underdog.
	Right, just in general.
	Right, in general.
	That's a good point.
	That's a fair statement.
	Would they actually, physically, in capability be the underdog?
	No, we have no idea.
	Right.
	Because we don't know what the team is, but I think they would get billed as this underdog, which would give them a chip on their shoulder type of mentality.
	I think it's one of the same reasons why you see like.
	Oh, they have a national game for the battle.
	They got a squad already.
	I'm telling you, bro, we're getting close.
	And everybody throw with their left arm in that thing, boy.
	God, look at that.
	I didn't know they had that.
	Oh, I bet that's hype.
	Dude, I went to the women's lingerie bowl one time.
	I remember lingerie football used to be huge.
	They hit each other.
	They go crazy.
	I've seen some of the clips on Twitter.
	And they were beautiful, too.
	God.
	Yeah.
	I like the outfits.
	God, yeah.
	I like the outfits.
	Shoulder pads, legs, breasts, knees, everything.
	Head, arms.
	Oh, yeah.
	God, that shit was nice.
	Yeah, right here.
	And they talk a lot of trash.
	They talk a lot of shit right there.
	They'd be like, bitch, I'm going to knock your ovaries out.
	Gangsta shit like that.
	This is dope.
	I'm going to knock your nipples off that say shit like that.
	I wonder, do they still, they don't have this anymore, huh?
	I don't know.
	Have you ever considered investing in a type of athletic league?
	Nah, nah.
	No, I will stick to the things I know, and that is cigars.
	Yeah.
	Cigars and kids.
	Those are my investments.
	Okay.
	Do you think they have one last question on gay players?
	Do you think they got enough?
	Oh, oh, Ocho, tell me this.
	Do you think they got enough gay players in the NFL to beat the Jets?
	Be real with me, Ocho.
	I have no idea.
	You would have to go by position.
	Is there one gay player at each position that is one of the best in the game at their position?
	But even then, I'm not sure.
	The Jets, obviously, looked bad last year.
	Ain't no telling.
	Ain't no telling how they're going to be this year now that they have a quarterback in Justin Fields.
	So we'll see what happens.
	That's a good question.
	I would like to see that.
	I like that hypothetical.
	Thank you, sir.
	I would love to see that.
	And who would I even cheer for now?
	I would cheer for the gay team.
	I probably would too.
	Yep.
	I'd be out there.
	Shit, I would coach them.
	I waterboy them dogs.
	I'd be out there waterboying, dude.
	We got a little bit of zest sauce for everybody in the huddle.
	How tough is it for a player if you're going to a new team, if you know that the quarterback hasn't had a ton of success, is that a tough spot to be in?
	How do you manage your expectations?
	Like, you know, you're going to a team where, you know, maybe you leaving a team that had like a Drew Brees or a Tom Brady, right?
	And you know the balls are coming, right?
	And you know they're going to be in a vicinity where you can catch them and you know there's going to be 30 passes a game.
	And then you get into a spot where you're at a quarterback that's going to throw 22 passes a game and he's maybe going to get 170 yards out of him, 140 yards, you know?
	It all depends on the quarterback and the offense you go to and how much they're going to use you.
	It's all on how good you are.
	Obviously, if you're going to another team, most of the time, you're not who you thought you were.
	Most of the time.
	So you have to think about that.
	If you weren't regarded that much that they are keeping you, you're not who you thought you were.
	Unless you're on the back end of your career.
	Normally, once a player hits year 10, they move on from you regardless of who you are, no matter how good you are.
	You know, Jerry Rice, T.O., Randy Moss, at some point, teams even moved on from them.
	And we talk about some of the greats, you know, greats era.
	But when it happens early, you're in year three or year four, it's time to look in the mirror and say, how can I make myself more valuable if they were willing to move on from me?
	And what are ways do you think that players can do that?
	Like, what can you do to make yourself?
	Got to work on your craft.
	You got to work on your craft.
	How there are players coming in year in and year out, always.
	But how can I continue to make sure my value stays at a high level to where no matter who's coming out, you won't be able to get this kind of production from anyone else?
	And that's the fight.
	Every year, you got somebody coming behind you.
	Dads are mysterious creatures.
	I think that's undeniable.
	One moment, they're rewiring the lawnmower with duct tape and old shoelaces.
	And the next, they're trimming their nose hairs with a pocket knife in the rearview mirror.
	Way to go, dad.
	They say they don't want anything, but trust me, what they need is a grooming upgrade.
	So this year, instead of getting your father a world's best dad mug, he's just going to use to collect screws, step it up with the manscaped beard and balls bundle.
	Over 12 million men trust Manscaped.
	Join them and use code Theo for 15% off your entire order.
	They have all-in-one grooming with the beard hedger.
	They have a dual blade system on the lawnmower 5.0 with interchangeable foil and trimmer blades.
	Keeps things fresh and smooth.
	This Father's Day, don't give him another fishing lure or novelty hot sauce.
	Give dad the gift of smooth with the Manscaped Beard and Balls bundle.
	Go to manscaped.com.
	Use code Theo for 15% off your entire order.
	And make sure your pops look sharp from his face to his front porch.
	His balls will thank you.
	And if they could talk, they'd sound like Morgan Freeman.
	This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
	I've had mental health issues.
	Dang, I can't even.
	I got them right now.
	I have them.
	I'm thinking about them right now, which is crazy.
	I've had them.
	We all need help.
	If you know something's off, get some help because that's how it gets bad.
	People are always like, I'll figure it out.
	It'll figure itself out.
	It doesn't.
	And you won't.
	But you can.
	That's why I recommend BetterHelp.
	Mental Health Awareness Month.
	That's what this is.
	So let's encourage everyone to take care of their well-being and break the stigma.
	BetterHelp has over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist from their diverse network of more than 30,000 licensed therapists with a wide range of specialties.
	BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide.
	And you can easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost.
	We're all better with help.
	Visit betterhelp.com slash T-H-E-O to get 10% off your first month.
	That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Theo.
	And we thank BetterHelp for supporting the podcast.
	Yeah, I'm friends with Jordan Matthews.
	He played for Philadelphia, and now he played for Carolina, and he's getting in the later years of his career.
	But it's interesting to see him go there and now like he is a little bit more of like a leadership role, you know, lead by example, show up.
	Like J-Matt shows up every day, you know, great attitude, great energy.
	But it's just interesting to see what happens to guys as they get later in their career and how do they still make themselves valuable.
	Yeah, in other ways.
	To a squad.
	In other ways outside of production.
	Yeah.
	And that's, you believe that?
	That's what?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Veteran leadership, you know, around a bunch of young guys, someone that conducts themselves the right way in the locker room.
	A good locker room presence can carry you on an extra two or three years in the NFL.
	So that's not a myth.
	Oh, no, absolutely.
	Coaches like that.
	Coaches like that.
	A good guy, clean guy, one that you know not going to have any problems.
	You're going to show the young dudes on how to work, how to work on your craft and approach and study, study film and stuff like that.
	That's very valuable outside of production.
	Amen.
	Do you think, when you look at your career, do you think you could have operated differently in some years to have gotten more out of yourself, right?
	We all look, you know, because I'm critical of myself, right?
	You know, I look back and I want to do the best I can, even though I don't know what it is sometimes, but I want to do my best.
	And sometimes I'll look at certain interviews.
	Like I interviewed Mark Zuckerberg a couple of weeks ago from the Facebook guy.
	And I like, I should have done, I knew I could have done better.
	I think I had like a little bit of a plan, but I think I got nervous.
	And so when I look back on that, I'm like, man, I wish I would have asked some things that were more important.
	Things I really wanted to ask, but I was afraid to.
	Do you look back in certain years of your career and you're like, yeah, I could have done some things differently at this time.
	Either I was younger or I was.
	I mean, when I look back at my career, I would have done everything I did plus more.
	Cause I had some great ideas that I didn't get a chance to do.
	Like, what do you mean by that?
	I mean, just the fun.
	The fun.
	I would have pushed the envelope even more.
	Really?
	Just having a good time?
	Having a good time.
	Because listen, the NFL is not for long.
	And I had a short window to maximize as much as I could out of myself and out of the NFL.
	And I did just that, which is one of the reasons why I'm still going to this day pushing forward.
	But looking back, you're like, man, if I'd have known what I know now, if I'd have known then what I know now, then I could have done even more, right?
	Yeah, most definitely.
	Like, is that what you mean?
	Or do you mean like physically train him more?
	So do you feel like your attitude was different at certain years?
	No, I was the same always.
	I was always authentic myself.
	What you see right now off camera or on camera, it's the same way I was on field.
	Yeah.
	No, that wasn't a character.
	That was really me.
	And I just chose not to conform and not to behave the way they said I should.
	The way I played in the NFL, the same way I played when I was in high school.
	It was the same way I played when I was in Pop Warner.
	Just because you've paid me millions of dollars, I'm not changing who I am just for that.
	Absolutely not.
	Did you ever have teams try to tell you to pipe like?
	No, they loved it.
	Never.
	They loved it.
	The referees loved it.
	Opposing teams, coaches loved it.
	Opposing teams, players loved it.
	Everything I did.
	I could see that because there's kind of a thing like even if somebody's the enemy, if they're an enjoyable enemy, dude, you're kind of just thankful to have somebody around that's going to keep you entertained, that's going to keep things fun.
	Not only entertainment, but what I brought to the game and those I'm playing against, it was nothing but a competitive nature.
	Nothing I did was malicious.
	But you knew one thing.
	If we playing Ocho or we playing the Bengals in general, I got to come to play.
	Because I'm going to challenge you during the week through the media.
	I sent gifts to the defenses we were playing, to the secondaries, just to make it fun.
	What kind of stuff, like high heels or something?
	No, no, like Pepto Biz.
	I sent Pepto Bismal to the Browns.
	Oh, because you're about to deal with this shit.
	Yeah, it's going to make you sick to your stomach.
	I sent gifts to the Falcons before.
	Who else?
	The Steelers?
	I sent them some.
	Just fun, man.
	Just fun stuff.
	And they would always get the packages Saturday morning.
	Look, bro, you're like a fucking dangerous Tanto.
	It just happened.
	I was going to make them sick or they were going to get sick of covering me.
	So here's some pepto ahead of time.
	All fun.
	All fun.
	You think?
	Just their mentality or whatever.
	Do you think it really is?
	It messes them up because if you go out there and you're trying to kill me, that lets me know you're out of control.
	You're out of control.
	So I do stuff like that.
	I like to play mental gymnastics.
	If I can get you out of your game, if I can get you talking to me in the middle of a game, I got a little edge on you.
	A little edge on you.
	So if you're worried about me personally, you're not worried about me as a player.
	Bingo.
	And you're not worried about the game in general as a whole itself.
	Damn.
	Dude, stuff like that is so true.
	It's like, because when you say if you look back on a moment in your life, you're like, damn, I could have been a little bit more locked in or I let this get me a little, and it did affect me.
	And that happens.
	So then if you think ahead that way, you think if I can cause that to them, and I know that that outcome really occurs, then that me causing that is worthwhile.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	That's so true.
	The funny thing about it is being out of control and trying to hurt an individual that you're playing against, which is what happened to me every game, I had no problem because I enjoyed playing very calm under chaos.
	So you're going to be chaotic.
	I'm going to be nice and relaxed and calm.
	And you being angry, that split second of anger, you're going to miss.
	You're going to whiff.
	You know, the game of football is a game of inches.
	And once I know I'm in your head, I'm going to always have that half inch over you every time.
	Who hit you the hardest when you were playing, do you feel like?
	Brian Russell.
	Cleveland Browns.
	Garbage time.
	Carson threw a slant over the middle.
	Game is over.
	There was no reason I was supposed to be in the game.
	And I was knocked out.
	Watch this.
	Up top.
	All the way up top.
	Oh, God.
	And that is the one hit I took and was concussed.
	Intercepted.
	Yeah.
	And did he even call your email you?
	Nah, he did nothing.
	It was good.
	I enjoyed it.
	You see the scoreline, huh?
	34-10.
	Why am I even in the game?
	And it's what, a minute going the clock.
	But real talk, though, if they'd have taken you out of the game at this point, would you have been upset?
	Do you guys want to be in there getting stats?
	Or what's it really like?
	You know, I don't know why we were in the game at that point.
	I'm not sure.
	That game was over.
	Obviously, the Battle of Ohio, one of the biggest games.
	Oh, that's a good point.
	People came.
	Maybe they don't want to see the stars the whole time.
	Was there a quarterback that you do you feel like you had the best opportunity with your quarterback?
	Yeah, hell yeah.
	Carfin?
	Yeah.
	Absolutely.
	Just don't know.
	You don't know if people are sitting there thinking like, whoever the quarterback is, didn't matter.
	It doesn't matter.
	No, because I'm coming in and my skill set was at a point and how I felt was I'm going to make your job easy.
	Barbara Kowsey was the call coordinator when we played.
	I'm making your job easy.
	If you know you need a play and you need a catch or you need a, whatever it may be, you know who's number to call.
	Oh, yeah.
	That's my mindset.
	Like, I don't need you to be great throwing the ball.
	Just put it in the area, just anywhere in the area.
	I'll take your rest.
	Do you think players sometimes like at the end of games are like asking coaches, hey, give me, trade for me or something like that?
	People secretly like.
	Yeah, that happens all the time.
	Yeah, now that happens all the time.
	So people say it quick in that quick little hug.
	Hey, trade me.
	Trade for me.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Trade for me.
	Trade for me.
	Damn, because you wonder them hugs are fast, but sometimes you see their mouth moving.
	Yeah, that's why you see players always cover their mouth.
	But it's hard now because everybody's mic'd up.
	Oh, yeah.
	Everybody's mic'd up.
	So, yeah, that happens.
	So that's a good one.
	Do you feel like it's a I wish I had me a cigar?
	I would try one, man.
	I should have got one.
	If I catch up with you this weekend, I'll get one.
	You have your own brand?
	Yeah, 85, remember?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, I don't.
	Bring them up.
	Let me get a look.
	Let me get a gander at them.
	No, right there.
	And where do y'all get that?
	Where do y'all get the DR?
	Lettuce, what's it called?
	Nicotine lettuce.
	The leaf.
	The leaf.
	Tobacco.
	Tobacco.
	Yeah.
	And DR. Now we do man production.
	Now get down there in Dominican Republic, huh?
	Yeah.
	Now we distribute from Nicaragua now.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	That's where my dad's from, man.
	For real?
	That's dope.
	That's dope.
	That's crazy, bro.
	Oh, yeah.
	Wow.
	What are the odds of that, man?
	Boa Vidas.
	The good life, baby.
	Do you think, is this a make a break year for Joe Burrow?
	Tell me what you think.
	What do you think, Ojo?
	No, not make a break.
	Fuck no.
	You don't think so?
	No, absolutely not.
	Make a break, what?
	He ain't going nowhere.
	I know.
	He ain't going nowhere.
	But in the perception of, maybe in the perception of fans, you think it's.
	They got a great offense.
	Crazy offense.
	I agree.
	So at that point, if you're going to give up 35 points, you've got to be able to score 40. Bingo, I'm glad you said that.
	Now, what we do need to do is we need to start fast.
	We just start early, you know, in the beginning of the season.
	You know, losing to the Patriots the way we did in the beginning of the season, it hurt us on the back end.
	We need to start fast.
	We don't have to rally on other teams to lose or win for us to have an opportunity to get into the playoffs.
	Nobody wants to see us offensively if we make it into the playoffs.
	Ravens, very good.
	Bills, very good.
	Chiefs, very good.
	And that will always be the three or four teams that are in the hunt every season.
	Who's a team you think coming to share might actually have that...
	Do you think?
	Oh, that's a good one.
	That's a good one.
	There's always a surprise team every year.
	Because I'm a Saints guy.
	The Saints started off last year, they had two big games out of the gate.
	They beat Dallas by 30. They scored over 40 the first two games.
	And then it went bad.
	I mean, went so sour.
	So I have no idea.
	And it's hard to tell.
	You know, you have some special players that have gotten drafted.
	So we're going to see how they can impact the game early and impact that team in general.
	Oh, yeah.
	So I'm curious.
	I'm excited to see what Travis Hunter does in Jacksonville.
	I'm excited to see what Abdul Carter does.
	Jackson Dart, who is celebrating in New York now.
	That's Reuge with the Giants, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	He'll probably sit down and Russell will be at the helm.
	It's going to be a pressuresome market over there, but it'll be interesting because Russell, you don't really know how it's going to go.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But listen, they got Malik neighbors, so they're going to be all right.
	LS, you got Washington Commanders right there.
	I'm excited for them.
	They've got to always be in the hunt every year.
	Every football team in the NFL is a quarterback away from being in contention year in and year out.
	The commanders have their quarterback for the next decade.
	Why is it so hard to have, because you usually have about six, seven teams, eight teams that have good quarterbacks, right?
	The quarterback does well that year.
	Why is it so hard to have that position be good?
	Well, it's hard to find a quarterback that's good.
	But it's crazy.
	There's a ton of quarterbacks.
	No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
	It's not a ton of quarterbacks.
	You have tier ones.
	You know, your tier one quarterbacks.
	Right, but you have hard to get 200 in CAA team, and you have a lot of guys that can play quarterbacks.
	They're not that good.
	Right.
	They're not that good.
	There's a reason why.
	You know, your Patrick Mahomes, your Joe Burrows, Lamar Jackson, your Josh Allens.
	Oh, yeah.
	Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts, Jordan Love, Justin Herbert, and Trevor Lawrence should be in that conversation.
	CJ Stroud, maybe.
	CJ Stroud.
	You got guys that are right there in that second range.
	Yeah.
	Those are tier one quarterbacks or should be based on their talent.
	But I don't know.
	But then you get a guy like Andy Dalton.
	He's a game manager, does a good job, right?
	But never can kind of get over that past like nine and seven or six and eight.
	He never can really.
	It just kind of amazed me sometimes.
	I'm like, you'd think that they would just try, put anybody in there, give them a shot.
	Nah, it doesn't work that way.
	You put anybody in there, you'll be home.
	Maybe you put anybody in there, that's how coaches get fired.
	Oh, yeah.
	You're getting fired.
	Do you ever think of coaching getting into it?
	Absolutely not.
	No?
	No.
	They don't pay enough.
	And I make more now doing what I'm doing.
	I make more now than when I was playing.
	Damn.
	So I'm good.
	And that's such a blessing because, dude, a lot of guys, their career, it's hard enough to get out of college, get on an FLT.
	And then that is huge for those guys.
	Get the bread while you can get there.
	But then to have a career after that.
	It's like I'm looking at the busting with the boys guys, like Taylor LaWan and Will Compton.
	They got in early.
	They have a great space now.
	Like there's so much, like they have like a real imprint in society, you know?
	Yeah, they do.
	They're doing really well.
	It's cool.
	It's cool to see that kind of stuff.
	McAfee did it.
	Did it well with his as well?
	Oh, dude.
	Yeah, nobody's like him.
	Oh, yeah.
	There's nobody like him, man.
	Yeah, I'm trying to think of what else is going on, man.
	That's interesting to create a family based on I'm building for success, right?
	Absolutely.
	Is it hard to manage that big of a family with that many children?
	What's that like, really?
	I run a tight ship.
	Everybody, hey, I run a tight ship.
	Those I have kids from, we have the same end goal.
	We got the same end goal.
	And those I have kids from, awesome mothers.
	Awesome mothers.
	No issues, no nothing.
	How do you pick a good mother then?
	That's an important question, I think.
	Because a lot of people, they'll just, you know, I don't ever do no ejaculation inside of my life.
	You know, you'll never know.
	You know that?
	What a good mother is.
	But those I have.
	Oh, you don't think you can tell?
	Just get.
	There's no way to tell.
	It's impossible.
	Well, I'm just saying, if you meet a lady and they're a good lady.
	I mean, being a good lady doesn't mean you'll be a good mother.
	You know?
	And I only date women that already have kids.
	You can take that kid off to the size.
	Hey, man.
	What place y'all calling around?
	It's just weird.
	Just weird.
	You got to have two or more kids.
	God, that's a thing.
	Yeah, you got to.
	Because, I mean, for me, dating a woman with no kids, they never have fucking food at home.
	Yeah.
	They always want to go out to eat.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	You know what it's like?
	No, Theo, I don't know if you experienced this.
	Like, you know what it's like to have sex with someone that has kids and wake up at 3, 3.30 in the morning, get a fucking Capri Sun?
	That's good.
	Oh, bro.
	That's fucking amazing.
	Bro, I'm with half a mouth full of lunchable.
	I'll make love all night.
	See, that's what I'm talking about.
	That's who I am, boy.
	With a jaw full of them little shake hands and the ham.
	That's important to me.
	God, I love that.
	Having snacks in the pantry, dude.
	Because you kind of get to be a kid and a husband at the same time in a way.
	Yeah.
	That's interesting.
	Those are my rules.
	Everyone, some people, oh, she has kids.
	I don't care.
	Oh, and she wake up in the middle of the night.
	You can play video games, too.
	Oh, my God.
	We on the same page.
	Wake a kid up.
	I'll go another room, wake a little fucking little random.
	Hey, let's run Call of Duty real quick.
	Yeah, random, get up.
	Let's go do it.
	Let's run Duweight.
	You about to get schooled right now, motherfucker.
	I love it.
	I love it.
	Especially if she has older kids.
	Oh, that's perfect.
	Oh, that's perfect.
	Dang, that's a great point.
	Yeah.
	I mean, that's just me.
	Everyone else's thought processes and thought process and approach to dealing with women isn't like mine.
	And that's fine.
	Well, yeah, a lot of people, yeah, they just, but it's risky out there.
	I think having some strategy as to what you do with your own seed is important.
	Very.
	Did you, you mentioned that your grandmother raised you?
	Yeah, grandma.
	What was your, so did you, did your grandma raise your siblings too or just you?
	No, it was just me.
	My brother was raised with my mom.
	Okay.
	That's how I ended up in L.A. My mom was in LA at the time.
	And so my grandma, after I graduated high school, I went to Langston University.
	Langston?
	Yeah, N-A-I-A school in Oklahoma.
	And I got thrown out for fighting.
	So I went back to Miami after getting expelled.
	And my grandma was like, listen, I've done all I can with you.
	I washed my hands.
	And that's how.
	Damn, you was in a bad spot?
	Yeah, that's how I ended up in LA at Santa Monica.
	Why was your attitude bad?
	No, I just like to fight.
	You like to fight?
	Unfortunately.
	Fist fighting?
	Yeah, I like fist fighting.
	Like, I'm going to beat James Harrison ass.
	You fighting him?
	Yeah.
	James Harrison from Pittsburgh Steelers?
	Yeah, I'm going to fuck him up.
	I thought he passed away, man.
	Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.
	He's okay.
	Yeah, he's alive and well.
	Bring up a picture of him.
	Well, not for long once you get him up.
	Yeah, listen.
	Bring up a picture of him.
	Doesn't he have a child named...
	Yeah, he's a coach, isn't he?
	No, no, no, no.
	He's done coach.
	Oh, no, he ain't a coach.
	God, he doing calendar work.
	Yeah.
	God damn, he doing, he on fucking OnlyFans.
	Look at this shit.
	Yeah, that's Debo.
	That's Debo.
	God, I ain't going near his cage.
	Yeah, great.
	God dang, they fucking.
	Yeah, he's huge.
	He's a junkyard dude.
	He looks intimidating, doesn't he?
	Yes, he does.
	Yeah, I don't give a fuck.
	You really gonna fight him?
	Fuck him up.
	God, I'll stand.
	I'll coach you, bro.
	Yeah.
	I'll put you water in the back.
	I'll put ice on your neck.
	Yeah, very good friend of mine, but you know, sometimes you got to come and stay.
	Sometimes you got to establish dominance as a little man.
	Sometimes it is what it is.
	Remember the story?
	Why are y'all fighting?
	Y'all are upset with each other?
	I just don't like his face.
	It's punchable.
	Oh, yeah, he does look.
	He has a punchable face.
	Bring up another picture of that punchable man.
	God dang, bro.
	Now, I wouldn't hit this guy.
	Bring up the other picture.
	Go back to the other one.
	Yeah, now this guy.
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	Yeah, he's huge, right?
	And are y'all fighting just for fun?
	No, MMA style.
	Oh, y'all doing MMA?
	Yeah, he can kick.
	He can do whatever he wants.
	Did you go to the fight?
	Are you going to the fight that's coming up here?
	Or they just had one here?
	Yeah, I think they did.
	I wasn't here.
	I was out of town working.
	Do you like to go to him?
	Yeah, I like it.
	I'm a boxing fan more.
	I can't believe they're going to be able to do it.
	I like boxing better.
	And who's this?
	James Harrison?
	No, that's my crazy ass in there boxing.
	Oh, that's you?
	Yeah.
	Oh, so you really like it, huh?
	Yeah.
	I remember this was fun.
	Who is this against?
	Brian Maxwell.
	He does, Brian Maxwell does bare knuckle boxing.
	Yeah, a good friend of mine.
	I got dang.
	What's tough about boxing, man, that people don't realize?
	Conditioning.
	Conditioning.
	You got to be well conditioned.
	And for this, I only had two weeks to get ready.
	And since then, I think that was in 2021, if I'm not mistaken.
	And I've been training since.
	Just having fun.
	Could you fight a guy like you couldn't fight Jake Paul, though?
	I think the weight class is he's so much, so much bigger.
	He's heavy.
	Yeah, he's heavy.
	He's a heavy guy.
	I'm only, but maybe now I'm put on a little size.
	I'm about maybe 190.
	Who's somebody you would challenge out there then?
	Who's like a real, I'm trying to think of somebody?
	I just want to fight Debo.
	I just want to fight James.
	Well, he's willing to do it, isn't he?
	Yeah, yeah, we're going to do it.
	Who could I see you love?
	Then we're going to be friends after.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah, dude.
	But I remember when I was in school, if you got in a fight, the principal, they made you stand in the hall.
	Right.
	And you had to put your hands on the shoulder of the person you fought.
	Right.
	And so y'all had to be, by the end of the day, y'all were friends because you were right here.
	The whole time.
	And the other kids would get out of class and have to walk by.
	And so by the end, this person became your, you had to get over whatever it was because you had to be right there next to each other.
	I like that.
	What's a part that you miss about playing?
	I mean, I know it's kind of a general question.
	What's something you miss about playing that people wouldn't even think about?
	For me, it was competing in practice.
	Even just in practice was fun.
	I miss it.
	I missed competing in practice.
	That's what's difficult.
	The games on Sunday, that's fun.
	That's the easy part.
	Practice and competing, preparation.
	I miss that.
	I miss watching film.
	I really do.
	I miss watching film, especially on defenses and defensive backs and knowing what they were going to do before it even happened.
	I knew it was coming, whether it be down and distance, first down, second down, third down, all that shifting and motion that they like to do, playing around in the secondary.
	I know what you're doing before you even do it.
	And I miss that.
	I miss being prepared.
	So the entertainment value I bought was only done because I had studied to a T. I studied to a T. You know, it's not like I'm just getting up.
	You're one of them that is goofing around.
	No.
	It looks like it.
	Right.
	There's no way to have that kind of success without knowing what I'm doing.
	Or knowing what you're doing before I even go do it.
	What do you think the NFL could do differently now to make it more exciting?
	Or to make it a better product?
	If anything.
	I mean, listen, it is the best product.
	There's really nothing.
	Do you think so?
	I think the NFL's going down, man.
	No.
	I think people like college better.
	Hell, some people like damn WNBA better.
	I don't like that.
	Absolutely not.
	Some people do.
	Some young men do.
	Yeah, I don't.
	A couple guys do.
	Yeah.
	The NFL will always be the cream of the car.
	You think so?
	Always.
	There's something about it sometimes.
	I don't know if the field should be bigger.
	I don't know what should happen.
	Sometimes I feel like the guys have almost gotten too fast.
	I feel like sometimes with the running backs is what I do feel like.
	You don't get to see enough good moves because there's not enough space for them to do them in because everybody's so fast now.
	Yeah.
	I don't know if that's true or not, but I feel that way sometimes.
	I don't know if you could have a Barry Sanders now, not because you couldn't have the same guy.
	You could, you just will never have another Barry Sanders.
	That ain't happening.
	That might be fair.
	That is not happening.
	Absolutely not.
	That might be fair.
	Not even close.
	Yeah, it just looked like, you know, like it used to be once you got around the defensive end wasn't going to get out there to get you.
	You know, most of the time, players back then were not as fast.
	Now we have, you know, D-linemen, even D-tackles at running 4-5.
	Right, but I'm saying, does that make it tougher for somebody's backs to get out of the backfield?
	Not at all.
	You just have to be that much better.
	Yeah.
	You got to be that much better.
	Yeah, I'm wondering why sometimes it feels like it's not the same as it used to be.
	It's amazing.
	I'm not saying that.
	I'm not saying that the guys aren't extremely talented there.
	But sometimes I just wonder as a fan.
	Are you a WNBA fan?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I had an opportunity to go to my first game in Atlanta.
	You did?
	Yo, that shit was amazing in Atlanta.
	And the product in general, I don't know all the gripes that people have about the WNBA.
	Yeah.
	Oh, that shit was amazing.
	I know.
	Oh, my goodness.
	I had this atmosphere from quarter one to halftime.
	Dude, it felt like I was at the club.
	And I don't even go to the club.
	And the first thing I thought about was, wait, is this what it's like when you, you know, when it comes to the nightlife?
	I really enjoyed it.
	I really enjoyed it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, dude.
	I had a great time.
	I went to Las Vegas Aces game.
	Aces game?
	It was nice.
	Bro, it's so much fun.
	I tell my friends if they're in Vegas, like, what show should I go see?
	I say, if the Aces are playing, go see it.
	Go see them.
	It's just such a, yeah, there's like people love the game.
	You could tell they really are invested into the game, right?
	And this is when they had Kate Martin.
	They had the girl who won MVP three years in a row.
	This one that Aja Wilson.
	They still have AJ Wilson.
	Yeah, Asia's still there.
	Yeah.
	It was unbelievable, bro.
	I had a great time.
	And we got to sit right, bro.
	We were playing Dallas Spark, Dallas Mystic, I think is their name.
	Their coach was right there, dude.
	I was chirping them.
	It was ridiculous, dude.
	Yeah, I love the WNBA, man.
	I love the product they have.
	I love the product.
	I would like to invest in a WNBA team, man.
	I think Miami needs a team.
	I think Nashville needs a team.
	Yeah, that'd be nice.
	Because it kind of reminds me, I feel like, of what you might see with the NBA before everybody could dunk.
	And I don't mean that in any type of way other than you have to rely on good passing.
	Like, there's a lot of stuff you have to rely on where the NBA doesn't have to rely on it as much anymore.
	Do you think you can still play or no?
	Me?
	Yeah.
	Fuck no.
	Come on, bro.
	You can't talk yourself up this whole time and you can't even get back out.
	See, I got to be realistic as well.
	The mind knows what to do.
	The mind knows what to do based on years of playing in IQ, on-field IQ, but the body won't react the way I want it to.
	Bro, you could play for the Titans?
	No.
	No.
	You guys got a good one in Calvin Ridley.
	Oh, no.
	I know we have, I mean, Calvin Ridley is one of the best, right?
	I don't think Atlanta should have let him go, but we could use you over there, man.
	Yeah.
	Even just for the, well, we would come to watch you play, though.
	Now, what about that element of it?
	Has any team reached out to you in later years?
	Absolutely not.
	No.
	To say, just to sell tickets to you?
	Absolutely not.
	I can do that.
	That's what I'm saying.
	I can fill a stadium up.
	Well, that's what I'm talking about.
	Yeah, but not at this day and age.
	No.
	But people would love to watch it.
	Back then, yes.
	Yes.
	People would love to watch it.
	I'm trying to think of something else that we could talk about.
	Chad, anything you want to talk about?
	It's on you.
	Yeah, thanks.
	It's on you.
	Thanks, bro.
	Is it tough, though?
	Let me think about this.
	Realistically, when you have eight children, you have eight children.
	Yeah.
	I want two more.
	You do?
	Yeah.
	I'm probably going to do, is it called IBF?
	I want twins.
	Ooh.
	I want twins and I'm done.
	Why?
	You want twins so that you have to battle two Johnsons on the field at once?
	No, not really.
	I just want to end on the numbers.
	Okay.
	And on a grand finale, you got to end with a big move.
	There we go.
	That two-point conversion.
	I like that.
	So we'll see what happens.
	We'll see what happens.
	Do you have to pick your children's names or your wife gets to pick them?
	Yeah, whoever I'm dating.
	The mother gets to pick.
	They get to pick.
	Really?
	They get to pick every time?
	Yeah, of course.
	Is that a thing?
	I don't know.
	I just, it's the way I operate.
	I'm not worried about names.
	Really?
	Nah.
	So the mother gets to pick out every one of your children's names.
	Did she say, hey, what do you think about this name?
	Yeah.
	Oh, okay.
	And will you sit on and say yes or no?
	Say whatever you want to do.
	We're rocking with it.
	Wow.
	Yeah, my son.
	My son graduates from Arizona, Arizona State.
	He's a sundevil?
	Yeah.
	He plays football there.
	No, he's done.
	He's done.
	He's done.
	Yeah.
	Is it tough for your, if you have a child and do they feel like they have to live in your shoes?
	How do you have that conversation?
	But how do you have that conversation with them as a parent?
	You do as a parent, even though I play football.
	If you want to play, that's on you.
	If you don't want to play, I'm supporting whatever it is you want to do.
	I'm not one of those parents that push and push, you're going to do this.
	No, absolutely not.
	Whatever you feel like.
	But do you feel like the children feel some type of pressure or no?
	Just in their own?
	I would hope not because the pressure would be coming from me.
	Yeah.
	Fuck the outside noise.
	That has nothing to do with anything.
	Whatever you dream and want to do, I'm going to support it.
	Which one of your children is most like you, do you think?
	Probably my daughter that runs track at the University of Kentucky.
	Is she like your mom too or no?
	A little bit.
	It's a little bit of both us.
	A little bit of both us.
	A little bit of both us.
	Like, what does she have?
	Like, what tendencies does she have, you think?
	That make her like you?
	Athletic ability.
	Okay.
	Athleticism.
	And all of them are athletic.
	I think, honestly, her sister, who didn't run track, she's AK.
	She goes to Prairie View AM.
	I think she, if she chose to run track or just be in athletics, I think she would be faster.
	So she's the D.Vo.
	She's the Beyonce of the kids.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, she's the D. Vo.
	Who was a bigger D.Va?
	Do you think you or Terrell Owens, do you think?
	I don't think we're not even Divas.
	That's just a word.
	I'm not sure why they use that word.
	It just doesn't describe.
	No.
	Who's a better player?
	Tio.
	So one of your daughters is maybe even more athletic, but she chooses not to do it.
	Yeah.
	What does she like to do?
	She's a dancer.
	Oh, really?
	She's a dancer.
	She's MUA.
	She can dress her ass off.
	Oh, so she's stylish.
	Oh, my goodness.
	Yes.
	Oh, yeah.
	That's my baby.
	That's interesting.
	That's my baby.
	Yeah, I would like to have maybe a stylish little daughter.
	I have a daughter also who's into tennis.
	Cheyenne, I call her Cha-Cha.
	So good.
	Already.
	Eight years old.
	So good.
	Forehand, forehand, backhand.
	So good.
	You don't understand.
	We're going to have this conversation again maybe five years from now.
	And it'll be like, Theor, remember what I told you?
	There she is right there on tour.
	Love, love.
	Wow.
	Where does she play at?
	She plays in Florida.
	Yeah, she's in Florida.
	She's in Florida.
	I have a younger son, Savion, football.
	Crazy.
	Here in Florida?
	Crazy.
	Yeah.
	So your life must be pretty busy with having to just be a dad all the time.
	Yeah, it's easy.
	It's easy.
	I hear people complain.
	It's easy.
	It's easy.
	What do you think that people complain about that makes it seem?
	I just want to say that.
	Well, I mean, you do also have financial ability to at least feed it.
	That might make care of rent, that sort of thing.
	I think that might make it a little easier.
	I bet it does.
	From a financial standpoint, it's easy, but also being present and being active and being hands-on as much as I can.
	Yeah.
	It's just, I just like it.
	Like, you know, that feeling?
	I get such a great feeling when we go on trips.
	You know, every summer we take trips as one huge group.
	Really?
	Just mobbing to the airport with like 10, 8, 9 kids.
	All the women, too?
	The moms and the children?
	No, no, no, no.
	Oh, just the children.
	Yeah, just, yeah, I take everyone.
	Dad and the kids all going to do a trip.
	I love that shit.
	Where did you guys go somewhere fun that you would recommend to another big family to go?
	Like, if they got, because they got a lot of church families, Mexico, Mexico, DR. This summer we're going to Dubai, all of us.
	It's just those trips, dude.
	Just going to the mall when it's time to go shopping, just walking in like one big gang.
	I love that.
	That's interesting.
	It's an interesting way to think about your future and how you're raising children.
	But do you worry that you can't give them enough, each child, like enough mental and emotional connection, or you don't think about that as much?
	Or you think it's okay?
	No, they're good.
	They're good.
	They're good.
	Yeah.
	I have no idea.
	Yeah.
	I just think that you worry about that.
	That's a lot of people's fear because it's interesting because I think people used to have more children.
	I think we're having less children now.
	You see that?
	They're just about to give people money to have more children.
	You seen that?
	Well, you know, especially in this economy, too, I can understand why some people are a little bit more cautious on having kids.
	Yeah.
	Who was an overhyped cornerback when you were playing, bro?
	Overhyped?
	Yeah.
	don't talk about people like that, but if you had to guess somebody, I don't talk about people.
	It was negative.
	Yeah, it's a negative.
	Yeah, nobody's overhyped.
	If you made it, you're a 1%er, you're there for a reason.
	You're there for a reason.
	Could you tell if a guy wasn't going to be, like, do you feel like there are some days when a player, they could even be great, and they go into a game and it's just an off game?
	Like, does that really happen?
	Yeah, you have off days.
	Michael Jordan had off days.
	I had off days.
	Some of the best, Brady, Mahomes, you have off days.
	But your good days outweigh the bad ones.
	Right, the average of it.
	Yeah.
	That's a good one.
	That was a good question.
	It was?
	That was a good one.
	Well, because sometimes it's like, I got to do a show or something.
	And I'm like, I don't feel like today's just not my day, but I still have to do it.
	Right.
	You got to wonder at that level because it's, you know, it only comes down to 16 Sundays, you know?
	Yeah.
	And out of that 16, you're going to have a bad one.
	Yeah.
	You know, you want to be as consistent as possible, but being perfect, you strive for perfection.
	So even if you do fall short, but you're going to have bad days.
	Do you worry with a lot of these young people that now they have all this Max preps and all this video footage and stuff so early?
	Do you think that that's a positive or a negative?
	How do you even look at some of that?
	Because you have a child now who's nine years old, who's watching himself either do well or not do well on a film, you know?
	Yeah, well, that's a part of it.
	That's a part of it.
	You have to evolve with the times.
	The parents have to evolve with the times that we're in now, understanding that we're in a social media era and everything is magnified times 10. Everything's magnified.
	Yeah, I just wonder like if that's good for a child's psyche or not.
	Either way, it's not going anywhere.
	It's going to be here.
	That's your point.
	It's going to be here.
	You can't romanticize the past because that's not going to come back.
	Exactly.
	So at that point, it's on the parent, helping the child understand water off a duck's back, no matter what it is.
	Something goes bad in one ear, out the other.
	Next play.
	What about with the like NIL is real popular right now?
	Like you have players who will have do, you'll have players that will do, get an NIL deal.
	Yeah.
	And then there's like a couple of windows for the NIL.
	Bring up how many windows are there?
	Because there's some before the season even ends or how many transfer portals in the college season?
	Typically two main transfer portal windows.
	A winter window and a spring window.
	So you can have a guy come in during the winter window and I think they've had this, get a deal, and then he leaves during the spring window or he wants a better deal, but he just he hadn't even done anything yet.
	Yeah, I mean, but that's that's the game it is now.
	It's a pay-to-play.
	Do you think that helps college football though over time?
	Do you think it helps keep players in college for a longer amount of time?
	I think the fact that colleges in general are billion dollar institutions or entities in general and have made so much money off players' likeness for so long and the players really had nothing.
	So I like the fact that players are now able to take advantage of their likeness and get paid early because everybody's not making it to the NFL.
	Everybody's not going to get there.
	So them being able to make some change, make some cash now while they're playing, I'm all for it.
	I'm all for it.
	But do you think there will be players who don't make it because they get money early that it damages them?
	No, absolutely.
	You don't think so?
	Well, it could.
	You told me it's getting that kind of money in college.
	You're getting money early.
	And he's spending it in the club or he's buying a wagon wheel or a Jeep Wrangler.
	You're going to tell me he's not going to want to.
	Well, your end goal is the NFL.
	Your end goal is always the NFL.
	Getting money in college shouldn't change your long-term vision and your childhood dream of making it to the.
	But you don't think that somebody could suffer.
	Absolutely.
	You could pay me that little bit of money is to help family.
	That's help family.
	I don't know if these guys are using it for that, though.
	Some of them are.
	No, trust me, you're using it for family because you don't, you know, based on where some of these individuals are coming from, this is a huge help, a huge jumpstart to being able to help their family.
	But the end goal, the real money is in the NFL, not NIL.
	What's the most somebody made in NIL this past season?
	Let's take a look at it.
	Probably $4 million, maybe five.
	But you got people doing dog food commercials and shit in their small town and stuff.
	Hey, get it.
	Get it while you can.
	Getting six or seven racks out there.
	Four years of college right there.
	What's the biggest NIL deal of college football?
	The highest NIL in college football.
	Oh, it's Arch Manning.
	That's right.
	6.7.
	How many years is that, though?
	He only got three more to go.
	Is that 6.7 a year, you think?
	No, total.
	That's total.
	Yeah.
	So that's different, but that's better than like if that's a fifth round pick or something.
	You got to remember, Arch comes from money anyway.
	So that's not new to him.
	Right.
	It's probably not making his biggest choice.
	Yeah.
	How often do you guys tape your show?
	Now it's based on the NBA playoffs.
	So we're off tonight.
	So we just did Thursday, Wednesday, and Tuesday.
	We're off tomorrow.
	No, we're off today.
	We're on tomorrow, Sunday, Monday.
	And we're on Saturday, Sunday.
	wait.
	Yeah, you see tape all the time, huh?
	Yeah, yeah, it's fun.
	It's fun.
	It's the NBA game, NBA playoffs, and we always have an NBA guest on.
	So I'm enjoying that.
	I'm enjoying that.
	Did you think, do you think about other, like, is there another venture you'd like to get in?
	Do you feel like you're in a good space?
	It seems like you're in a pretty good space.
	Right now, I'm good because this is my offseason.
	You know, when football season gets here, I'm on NFL films.
	I'll be on the ESPN this year with Stephen A. So I'm good.
	Oh, wow.
	This is my off time.
	What's he like, man?
	Is he really like he seems Stephen A?
	Cool as hell.
	Cool as hell.
	Stephen A has afforded me opportunities I couldn't have imagined.
	Couldn't have imagined.
	Yeah, so I like it, especially being in a space, being able to transition into media.
	Yeah.
	It's been really good for me.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, you got to have, I think having that, just being able to have a voice, you know, and you still have a voice in the sport that you love.
	Yeah.
	You still have some sort of a say or at least an opinion and stuff, you know?
	Yeah, an opinion that's respected, especially when it comes to football.
	Yeah.
	When you look back on your experience with the Bengals, what is like, obviously, you know, the play and everything like that.
	What was Cincinnati like then?
	What was the energy like then?
	It was good.
	It was good, especially that 2005 year, which that was the year we were on fire offensively.
	And obviously defense, they were having takeaways like crazy.
	That was our year.
	If Carson didn't go down in that first round of the playoffs against the Steelers, that was our year to host a trophy.
	That was that year.
	Oh, my goodness, the city was on fire.
	I could just imagine now, hell, with the every year, every year now with Joe Burrow there, you know you have opportunity.
	You got a chance.
	Rudy Johnson was a beast.
	Oh, yeah.
	Rudy, Hoosh.
	Those are some good dudes, man.
	Matter of fact, I have a group chat with half of everybody in here.
	Hoosh is in there.
	I'm in there.
	Rudy Johnson is in there.
	We got Carson.
	Justin Smith is in that group chat.
	I haven't seen somebody's name.
	Delta O'Neill is in that group chat.
	Oh, Brian Simmons is in the group chat.
	I haven't seen somebody's name in so long.
	Oh, look at Odell Thurman.
	Odell was really good.
	It's wild how some guys, it's like they'll have a great, like Rudy Johnson was huge for a few years.
	He had a couple of great years.
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	And then you didn't hear about him.
	Yeah, I don't know.
	I can't remember where Rudy went after he left.
	And it's not even a judgment against him.
	It's just like, that's how it's like things come and go fast in the league, huh?
	It does.
	Listen, those years go by real fast.
	Very fast.
	Damn.
	11 and 5. Yeah.
	Damn.
	And we were on fire, man.
	And who was y'all's backup?
	Who came in his backup quarterback?
	Yeah, who was our backup that year?
	Oh, John Kittner.
	He now coaches at Lakota East or Lakota West High School in Cincinnati.
	Carson Palmer is now coaching in L.A. I don't know what school he's coaching at.
	And Kittner just created, y'all didn't break through that second round?
	No, no, no, man.
	The Steelers won that game, man.
	They won that game.
	Oh, John.
	That's my guy.
	Damn, I'm trying to think of anything else, man, I could think about.
	Do you love living down here in Florida?
	That's all I know.
	Been all over the world.
	I'd have been all over the world, and it's nothing like home.
	No matter where I go, and I do all my traveling strictly for soccer purposes.
	I'm a huge soccer enthusiast.
	Love soccer.
	You think you could have played it at a pro level?
	I would have had to start when I was four years old.
	If I could start it when I was four years old.
	You said intrinsic, huh?
	Yes, I love it.
	I love it.
	I love the atmosphere, the energy.
	I don't think people understand.
	We don't look at soccer as a sport.
	Why are you like all they're doing is running around?
	The score is only 1-0, but you don't understand how beautiful that game is.
	You know, it's like painting a picture.
	And if you watch it and understand what you're watching, then you'll appreciate it more.
	That's your favorite sport you know.
	Oh, my God.
	Times 10, then football.
	What's the best place to see a soccer game at then you think?
	For me, growing up, I had the opportunity to see a river, river game versus Boca Juniors in Argentina.
	You'll never see an atmosphere like that ever again.
	Dang.
	And I don't think people, it's kind of dangerous, but still, River Plate and Boca Juniors, obviously, I've seen every EPL team.
	I've been to their stadium.
	They've seen every La Liga team play.
	Abbey, El Clásico, Real Madrid, and Barcelona is always a good one.
	So a lot of, so you've been to a lot of these famous stadiums.
	Every last stadium.
	Yes, every last one.
	I did the World Cup with Qatar with Fox.
	I was an analyst for Fox.
	World Cup and Qatar.
	A lot of amazing stuff.
	Dude, I love, love soccer, man.
	Like, if I had to choose between going to a soccer game or just watching and having sex, I'm picking soccer every time.
	Over sex?
	Absolutely fucking.
	I don't care who it is.
	Oh, yeah.
	I don't care who it is.
	Like, that's how much I love the game, the beautiful game.
	Yeah, I'm trying to think.
	Let me think.
	Oh, yeah, I would probably go.
	Yeah, sex sometimes gets a little bit boring, kind of, you think?
	It depends.
	Yeah, maybe not boring.
	That's not the best word.
	I mean, listen, I did amateur porn growing up, so for me, it's, Yeah, amateur porn, yeah.
	Yeah, it just, the only difference is I didn't get paid for it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's why I was an amateur.
	And so were you, and were you people doing, were people filming or?
	Yeah, I had a tripod camera set.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah, you were a tripod, yeah.
	Yeah.
	So those tapes still out there, you think?
	They did.
	It earned me some good money.
	Oh, you had a tape out there?
	No, I had a tripod and I just sold them myself.
	Oh, bet, yeah.
	Yeah.
	God, I don't know.
	I don't, I hope there's nothing out there in me.
	No, yes.
	Yep.
	Right now, probably back then, I don't even think they sell the camcorders back then for someone to be able to blackmail me at this point.
	Yeah.
	They might have some drawings of me having sex, though.
	There we go.
	Are you married?
	Some clay figures.
	No, I got to get married, man.
	You have a girlfriend?
	Not right now.
	No?
	I'm going to get one.
	How do you navigate that?
	I just be careful.
	Are you cautious on who you're dealing with based on now being okay?
	Yeah, because things happen.
	I mean, even with your co-hosts, it just gets, you know, like there's just a lot.
	I think there's more opportunities maybe.
	I don't know.
	Everything's weird now.
	I feel like it feels, just feels, things feel kind of scary.
	And you don't know even if you're doing the right things that somebody could take advantage of you.
	Yep, they can.
	And then at the same time, you can, I have a lot of friends that are sex addicts that get caught up just in sex, right?
	that world, and it becomes like an addiction to them.
	Yeah, it can be a lot of people.
	I hate when people call sex an addiction.
	I really don't like that because we're mammals.
	We're put on earth in general to have sex, to procreate in general.
	We pump.
	And so I just, I hate the fact that we have all these definitions.
	Oh, he's an addict.
	No, you're not.
	It's sex.
	It's something that we as humans actually do.
	Some do it more than others.
	And that just, you know, it's cool.
	Some people enjoy doing it a ton.
	Some people don't enjoy doing it a ton.
	Yeah, and some enjoy doing it with multiple people.
	You ever been to a swingers club?
	I've never been.
	You been?
	I mean, yeah, I used to work at one.
	Oh, you did?
	Yeah.
	I used to be a gigolo for rich, rich, rich, wealthy women.
	Really?
	Tommy Lee was a gigolo?
	He was?
	Yep.
	Tommy Lee from Molly Crue.
	Yeah, Molly Crue?
	Yeah.
	That's dope.
	He's a gigolo.
	So were you getting hired to get out there and take these women out on dates?
	Yeah, get on dates.
	And, you know, obviously they had billionaire husbands, billionaire boyfriends that didn't have the time for them.
	And I would just fill that void that they weren't getting at home because of them being busy.
	So the husband's just so busy, I'm just going to, I'm going to treat my wife to a date.
	At least she can go do something nice.
	The husband didn't know.
	Yeah, it was an ad.
	It was an ad.
	It was an ad in the paper.
	You put your own ad out?
	Yeah, I put my own ad.
	And what would the ad say, ballpark?
	Based on the information that what they were looking for, I had a menu of services that I provided.
	And was some of them sexual or not?
	Yeah.
	Someone were sexual.
	Someone would just be spending time, you know, dates, movies, conversation, massage, stuff like that.
	And most of the time, it was more about sex and, you know, fulfilling that fantasy of being with a black guy.
	Oh, really?
	Yes.
	That's a marketable fantasy, huh?
	Of Mandingo descent.
	Oh, damn.
	Yeah.
	And how do you know if someone's Mandingo or not?
	Well, anyway, what region is that?
	The lower region.
	Bring it up.
	Where have I been?
	I've been to Tanzania.
	Mandingo.
	On a map.
	Yeah, there we go.
	Okay.
	West Africa.
	So if they want to see that West, if they want that West African energy, huh?
	Yeah, it's more of a term in referencing the private area.
	Mandingo.
	Oh, it's a Wiener term?
	Yeah.
	Oh, damn.
	I didn't know it.
	I've heard it.
	Right, right.
	Mandingo guy or whatever.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so you had women trying to just be with a black man?
	Yeah, they just wanted to fulfill that fantasy.
	And were they paying fair shit?
	Were they paying a decent amount?
	Yeah, I mean, for an hour, I could make anywhere from $3,500 to $5,000.
	My goodness.
	Yeah.
	God, would you wear your jersey or not?
	No, this is before I even, I hadn't even made it yet.
	Oh, wow.
	Because at that point, I wouldn't need the money if I'm already in the league.
	Oh, yeah, bet.
	So that's the way, you know, in college.
	You know, I used to strip too.
	Did you really?
	In LA at the right track.
	Damn.
	Yeah, I was a dancer.
	They used to call me Twix.
	Really?
	Why?
	Because I was skinny and had a lot of veins.
	Oh, yeah.
	I like the Twix, yeah.
	Dang, man.
	Was that a fun sport?
	It was fun.
	Would you do the splits as well out there?
	No, I didn't do the splits.
	I didn't do the splits.
	But what I did come to learn is the women of 200 plus pounds or more, they tip much better than everyone else.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, they did.
	Did they?
	Yeah, they tip well.
	And would you ever get hired by those women for sexual at times?
	At times, yeah.
	At times, yeah.
	And is it more challenging?
	I feel like do you have to do more for a more of a Ruben-esque woman?
	I've been with some probably medium-sized girls.
	I've never been with like a real, more of a larger, bigger larger, maybe?
	Yeah.
	You know, like, I've never been with like a Big X the Plug type woman.
	200 plus, I love.
	I love.
	Yeah.
	I love that.
	God.
	I just do.
	I just, though, though, I got so many good stories, man, from back then.
	It's just, we'd be here all day.
	And would you, but would you guys ever go to like a drive-in movie or what would y'all do?
	Holy shit.
	Speaking of drive-in, I haven't been to a drive-in in years.
	I don't even know.
	Do they still have drive-in theaters?
	Especially here in Florida.
	That would be a great date.
	I'm so glad you brought that up.
	Yeah, I would love to get to a drive-in out there with a lady.
	Yeah, that'd be dope.
	Was it ever scary going over to a woman's house?
	Absolutely not.
	No, because I already know.
	Yeah, no.
	Nothing to be scared of.
	Nothing to be scared of.
	I'm just, I'm going to perform to put on a show.
	And was there a certain amount of time you had to do sex for?
	You could just, was it like part-time or full-time kind of?
	Well, it depends on what she picks from.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Depending on how she's going to do it.
	Would you do cash or check?
	No, I don't do checks.
	Cash.
	Cash up front.
	Damn, bro.
	Yeah.
	So you've always been entrepreneurial, huh?
	Yeah, most definitely.
	You got to start somewhere.
	And would you wear a special suit or a bandana or anything?
	No, no.
	Just banana hammock.
	Just casual attire, huh?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, would you lotion up that wiener or whatever for you?
	You lotion up everywhere.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oiled up.
	Especially when I come on stage?
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	You don't even knock.
	You just slide through the lock.
	Right on in.
	Come on.
	Right on in.
	Ocho Cinco, man.
	Well, I would love to go to a game with your, whenever you go watch your daughter in Kentucky.
	Yeah, most definitely.
	It's outdoor season right now, too.
	It just started.
	So when I get up there, you got to come on down.
	I'd love to.
	Do you think that some players secretly lobby to get into the Hall of Fame?
	I think so.
	I mean, rightfully so, for those that understand for them, if it means that much to them, you know, being a part of that entity of special people, yes.
	But then there's some players also, like myself, that feel that I don't really need the validation.
	I understand who I am and what I did during my time.
	And I'm in general, I don't really need it.
	I hate the fact that there are certain people that sit in places that have a, that are in a position of power that can control individuals that no longer play.
	It's like puppets.
	Oh, yeah, I know you want to be in here so bad, so I'm controlling whether you can get in or not.
	I would never give it away.
	I would never give anyone the satisfaction.
	The power over me.
	You care a bunch of shit.
	Take it.
	I mean, listen, it's great.
	It's a great achievement, a great accomplishment, but come on, I have too much going on now, still, right?
	Every day, you have a lot of adoration and things that you get, you get, you know, to still be active and admired in a sport that you enjoy.
	Who's that?
	When I put that Hall of Fame jacket on myself.
	Oh, yeah.
	Good for you.
	I think there are 269 members in the Hall of Fame, but that jacket right there, that's one-on-one.
	Gang, gang, that's the truth.
	That's one-on-one.
	There's only one of those.
	Dude, yeah.
	That's a good point.
	Yeah.
	But you started your own little hall.
	Yeah, listen, the Hall of Fame is unbelievable, you know, to be able to get there.
	Oh, yeah.
	I'm not discrediting it.
	Yeah, me neither.
	I'm just saying, but I don't like the power it holds over players that are retired because they're clamoring trying to get in.
	It's the same with like these Emmy Awards and Academy Awards for acting stuff.
	I respect that it's an award that people have admired and stuff.
	But if people out there like blowing directors and shit to get the award, or they're like having a, you know, go pity patter to them because they hope they vote for them.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I don't like that shit.
	That's not me.
	It never has been.
	Yeah.
	In fact, take me off the fucking ballot because I don't even want you to be able to tell me no.
	That's how I feel.
	I don't even want you to be able to say, you didn't get it.
	I never wanted it.
	You know what I'm saying?
	It's almost even a better take.
	With the future, like, I know Shannon's going through his stuff right now.
	With the future of y'all's show, did you guys worry about that?
	Does it impair it or do you feel?
	Unk is going through his issues, right?
	And whatnot.
	And Unk asked me to be a part of Nightcap.
	And I'm going to ride that wave because he asked me to come on.
	I'm not jumping ship because of his personal stuff that you handle whatever you need to handle.
	I'm going to always be here.
	Yeah.
	I'm going to be here.
	You know, if the ship go down, bitch, I'm going down with it.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	You know, so when the ship was going good, I was right here.
	Just because it's fucking rocky, I ain't going nowhere.
	I'm not going nowhere.
	So I'm going to let him do what he needs to do.
	We're going to keep on filming.
	We're going to keep on trucking.
	We're going to keep our head down.
	He knows what he needs to do on his end.
	And I'm going to make sure I take care of my end and do what I need to do and show up.
	That's it.
	That's it.
	Yeah, man.
	You know what it reminds me of is when Bill Belichick, remember when Trump, people got on to Bill Belichick about Trump.
	And what did he say about him?
	Remember when everybody was against Trump?
	Remember that shit?
	They still are.
	That's a good point.
	Yeah, now even for different reasons, man.
	How they're handling like some of the Middle East stuff.
	But he said, my relationship with Donald Trump isn't political because the media was really getting on to him.
	He said, my relationship with Donald Trump isn't political, Belichick said on the dynasty.
	I knew him long before he got into politics.
	Donald is a friend, and I wrote a personal letter.
	Might have been it.
	But he just, he stood up for the fact that this is my friend.
	This is my friend.
	And people can, there can be other stuff that he has going on in his life, but that isn't, I'm not going to not be a friend then.
	Right.
	So yeah, it just kind of reminds me of that.
	Anything else you wanted to talk about, Chad?
	Probably got a lot of good stuff.
	I feel like do you think we had a good conversation?
	It's awesome.
	This is awesome.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Sorry.
	Yeah.
	Sometimes it's hard.
	You know, sometimes you have days where you're like, you got it.
	You got everything going.
	Everything's okay.
	Sometimes you have days where you're like, what's even going on?
	It's weird.
	Sometimes you get scared.
	Sometimes you don't.
	Yeah.
	Or nervous about certain moments.
	I don't think black people get as nervous as white people do.
	Do you think that that's true?
	It depends.
	It all depends on the atmosphere.
	It all depends on the atmosphere and the situation.
	I mean, driving the car and the cops pull up behind you, we get nervous.
	Yeah.
	And I'm like, hey, buddy.
	Yeah, you guys, not so much.
	You get nervous.
	That might be a good point.
	So in different moments.
	But I think also a good thing that a lot of black folks have is white people, you could tell when they're nervous because you could see it in their face.
	Yeah, we give a lot of too many clues away.
	So I think I got to start wearing some rouge or something.
	I got to start wearing some bronzer.
	Thank you so much, Shed.
	No, thank you.
	Best of luck, man.
	I love your energy, bro.
	Thank you for being somebody that continues to entertain people.
	You know, it's just interesting to hear what your life has been like and how you kind of choose.
	Somehow you're able to remarkably choose to still just be yourself no matter how kind of hectic things get.
	Doesn't matter no matter what.
	I always even kill at all times.
	And your even keel is even killing evil too to a lot of people.
	You know, it's wild, but that's who you are.
	Yeah.
	Always been and will never change.
	I will always remain authentically myself at all times.
	Well, it's been fun to watch, man, on the field and off.
	And yeah, thank you for your time.
	Thank you, boss.
	I appreciate it, baby.
	Yes, sir.
	Now I'm just floating on the breeze.
	And I feel I'm falling like these beads.
	I must be called to stone.
	But when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind.
	I found I can feel it in my bones.

▲