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Oct. 17, 2024 - This Past Weekend - Theo Von

02:20:25

E539 The Amazing Acro-Cats

Samantha Martin is an animal trainer, cat advocate and rescuer who leads “The Amazing Acro-Cats”, a touring troupe of over a dozen cats that entertain audiences by riding skateboards, jumping through hoops, balancing on balls, and more. Animal trainer Samantha Martin joins Theo to talk about her unique life traveling the country in a bus with dozens of cats, learning how to train animals by starting with rats, and her bigger goal for her show. They also close the episode out with a performance by the Acro-Cats. Samantha Martin: https://www.instagram.com/samantha.martin.acrocats/ The Amazing Acro-Cats: https://www.instagram.com/acrocats/ RockCats Rescue: https://rockcatsrescue.org/ ------------------------------------------------ Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ ZocDoc: Go to http://zocdoc.com/theo to find and book a top-rated doctor today. Shopify: Go to http://shopify.com/theo to sign up for a $1-per-month trial period. ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: tpwproducer@gmail.com Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Send mail to: This Past Weekend 1906 Glen Echo Rd PO Box #159359 Nashville, TN 37215 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Producer: Colin https://instagram.com/colin_reiner Producer: Cam https://www.instagram.com/cam__george/ Producer: Ben https://www.instagram.com/benbeckermusic/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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	We have some upcoming tour dates there in Colorado Springs in Colorado, Casper, Wyoming, Billings, Montana, and Missoula, Montana, Bloomington, Indiana, Columbus, Ohio, Champaign, Illinois over there in the Fighting Aligne area, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Lafayette, Louisiana, and Beaumont, Texas.
	You can get all your tickets at theova.com slash T-O-U-R.
	And thank you so much for the support.
	Today's guest is a cat advocate, a performer, and a trainer.
	For almost 20 years, she's been touring with her performance crew of cats called the Acro Cats, where they perform routines, tricks, and much more.
	She's also started the only all-cat band in the world, Tuna and the Rock Cats.
	No one loves anything as much as Samantha loves cats.
	Today's guest is Samantha Martin and the Acro Cats.
	Shine that light on me I'll sit and tell you my stories Shine on me And I will find a song I've been singing just before And I will find a song
	Yeah, so I want to learn all about Acrocats and I want to learn all about the traveling cat universe and everything that there is to know about it because it really is just fascinating to think about them cats and everything that they're doing and just how involved with it you are, you know?
	Just to start, I guess, what are some, like, what is a cat, I guess, basically?
	How would you even, what is like a, like, I mean, I know it's kind of an easy question, but what do you, some people probably don't aren't even, that aren't big pets, like connoisseurs or whatever.
	How do you put that in a, um, is there a certain size of it or like, how tall is a cat?
	Oh, boy, that's, you're open with a question I don't even know the answer to.
	They're very, they really vary in size.
	Some, the, some of the cats are more petite.
	We do a lot of bottle babies, so they tend to be a little bit on the smaller side.
	Females, a little bit on the smaller side.
	But cats are really kind of misunderstood.
	Everybody thinks that cats are aloof and that they can't be trained, that they don't really need socialization or kind of the same kind of things that dogs need.
	A lot of people get cats thinking that's not going to be any work at all.
	I just have to scoop a litter box or get an auto scooping litter box and throw out some food and be done with it.
	Where a dog is so much more work.
	But in actuality, a cat is just as much work as a dog.
	And people should invest that time because cats are brilliant.
	People don't realize just how brilliant cats are.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	I've seen some cats.
	They have all types of cats.
	Yeah, they even had one cat went to space, I think even.
	I know a cat went down Niagara Falls.
	Really?
	You know a cat that went to Niagara Falls?
	That went down Niagara Falls.
	That went down it?
	The first person that survived a barrel trip down the falls, she took a cat with her.
	away.
	For good luck or just for...
	I mean, I wasn't around during that time to ask her afterwards, what made you bring a cat down the falls with you?
	But she and the cat survived.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So a cat, like, and a cat can be, you said, almost any size.
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, there's huge cats.
	There's main coon cats that are giant.
	Our cats are a little bit on the, they're all, none of our cats are pure bred cats because they're all rescue cats.
	So they, but the main coon cats are giant.
	I mean, I've seen like they're almost dog size.
	Oh, wow.
	So, and then there's the real small ones, the munchkins and that have the short legs and that they, and, you know, it's not really good to breed for certain things.
	You know, it just seems uncomfortable for some of the cats to have like short legs and difficulty for them to get around.
	But yeah, they come in all different sizes and shapes and larger, smaller.
	Some cats are hairless.
	Some cats are completely furry.
	So a cat can basically be almost any like how tall are the cats you work with?
	Because the cats I've seen are probably a lot of them are about this tall.
	Well, I guess that's if they're just sitting up, if they're walking.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, it's kind of, there's a typical cat size, but the main coons are the ones that are the giant.
	Oh, a main coon is a game?
	A main coon.
	Yeah.
	The main coons are the giant ones.
	You know, see people like with the record main coon and they're holding it and it takes two arms and it's still hanging over their arms.
	Yeah.
	It's like a play in the bass kind of.
	And do you, do you employ any main coons?
	No, because they really, we need small, agile cats to be acrocats.
	Okay, so for acrocats, we're talking a smaller cat.
	We're talking, what's the premier size kind of like for an acrocat?
	Oh, the runts, the orphans, the runts, the strays, the ones with the, with the, especially the ones with the attitude, with the troublemakers.
	Oh, really?
	Those make the best acrocats.
	They do.
	Those little, like, because they got like short cat syndrome.
	So they already have like a little chip on their shoulder.
	So they've got attitude and they're like, I'm, you know, don't mess with me.
	Yeah, I'm going to show you.
	And so, yeah, those make, those are the best acrocats.
	And they're a little bit on the smaller side, so they can do a lot more.
	Okay.
	Climb higher.
	They can jump further.
	Yeah, it's just, they're more agile.
	So yeah, we, you know, we tend to employ strictly rescue cats.
	Okay.
	No purebreds.
	Oh, really?
	So you guys, so Acrocats is a lot of rescues then.
	Oh, yes.
	Yes.
	They're all former orphans rescues and screens.
	Man, it's almost like the Bad News Bears in a way, huh?
	You know, that movie have you seen it?
	Yeah, I've seen it.
	It's been a long time.
	So I kind of don't really remember the premise.
	Yeah, I think it was just some of them were kind of like, yeah, some of the kids were kind of like having a tough time, you know, it was like those type of kids.
	So how did you get started with AcroCats?
	And what is AcroCats, first of all?
	So the amazing Acrocats, they're a troop of former orphan rescues and strays that have come into my life Over the years, and I've trained them to do awesome things to show people that not only can cats be trained, but they should be trained.
	So they travel around the country.
	We now tour in a large bus.
	We initially started out in a small ambulance and then slowly built up to this giant money pit of a bus.
	Yeah, busing is expensive.
	Oh, so expensive.
	So you guys were in an ambulance.
	At one point, I started things.
	I started my career with an ambulance back in the days when I was doing rats and wildlife education and all of that.
	So I've been working with animals since I was 10. Okay.
	So you've been working with an animal since you was a child, really.
	You was really just a child animal worker.
	And so you get started, you said with rats first?
	I knew I wanted to be an animal trainer since I was seven.
	Okay, so you knew out of the gate you wanted to be out there with them animals?
	Yes.
	And how did you know you'd be at a zoo or something would flare up in you when you would see an animal?
	Or how do you know that you loved them?
	Well, my parents did a letter every year, like those annoying Christmas letters that people send out detailing their whole year.
	Oh, yeah.
	Like Patty got her menstrual cycle or whatever.
	And Danny's playing volleyball or whatever.
	So my parents did one every year.
	Yeah, we got those in our neighborhood.
	Some of them were too much.
	Oh, yeah.
	One year they sent it, it was like, Ron left us, if anybody's seen or whatever, call us.
	And we're like, this is for Christmas?
	Like, it was just, but some of them got it a little invasive.
	But, okay, sorry, I interrupted you.
	Oh, no.
	Yeah, but so looking back through all those Christmas letters, it talked about how I talked about wanting a cat, wanting a cat.
	As soon as I was able to talk, I wanted a cat.
	And then I found a book that was like a book about me that I had filled out when I was seven.
	And it said, when I grow up, I want to be, and I put on, I put, I filled in animal trainer or Indian.
	Oh, that's good.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And that's kind of the same thing almost because Indians were so close to nature, really, you know?
	Yeah, yeah, it really is kind of similar path, I guess.
	Spiritual connection with animals.
	Yeah.
	So you wanted to be really dialed in out of the gate.
	Oh, yeah.
	I knew what I wanted to do right from the get-go.
	My parents, they had a different plan for me.
	What did they think they wanted?
	I mean, they wanted the traditional, I mean, they sent me to college to get my MRS. They didn't care what I majored in.
	They wanted to be a woman.
	As long as I came home with a husband that had a good degree in a future.
	That's what they wanted.
	They did not anticipate me being an entrepreneur.
	I'm going to start a business with rats.
	And that's kind of how it all started right after college.
	I moved to Chicago and I was like, I'm going to start a business with rats.
	And what made you, did you see something?
	Did you, were you at a live event?
	Did you, were you at a christening or a, were you at like, you know, a performance of Phantom of the Opera?
	Or like, what set made you think, okay, I'm going to start doing a live performance at Animals?
	Because that's a real, the only people that's ever done that is Noah, probably Noah's Ark.
	And God, probably.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Did you see?
	Did you see a performance?
	Did you see something that was like, Okay, bring him up.
	Mo De Sesso, how do you spell it?
	Mo DeCesso.
	Mo De Sesso.
	Yeah, he was one of the original Hollywood animal trainers.
	He was my mentor.
	He was my, I mean, I saw this documentary that he did on the Discovery Channel back when they showed animal, you know, when they showed stuff like real things on Discovery Channel.
	And it was like behind the scenes training of the rats for this movie.
	And I was like, yes, this is what I want to do with my life.
	I want to train animals for film and television.
	And I ended up getting to meet him.
	Animal trainer Mo DeSesso, who trained such notable animal stars as Ben the Rat and Annie's dog, Sandy, died July 2nd in New Hall, California.
	He was 83. He trained over 600 rats for the two rodent horror hits, winning a Patsy Award for directing Ben the Rat in Willard and another sequel for Ben.
	Wow.
	So he could really conduct a rat.
	Oh, he could train any animal.
	He was just amazing.
	I was so thrilled because I ended up getting stranded in California.
	I was working on a rat documentary and part of it was filmed in Los Angeles in the summer.
	And I got stuck there because of a heat embargo.
	So I couldn't get my rats back to Chicago.
	So you're there.
	You're working on a rat documentary?
	Yes.
	It was called Rat.
	Okay, Rat.
	Yeah, Mark Lewis.
	Mark Lewis kind of gave me my big break as far as working on documentaries and getting my first really big break as far as training rats.
	So it was so serendipitous how everything happened, really.
	My whole, you know, the whole life story from the rats to the cats.
	But I was working on the documentary for the other part of the documentary.
	We'd film the first part in New York, and then we finished it in Los Angeles.
	There's a heat, you know, during the summer, you cannot fly animals and cargo.
	So my rats and I were stuck in California.
	So I looked up Mo De Cesso when I drove out to his ranch.
	No.
	And I introduced myself, and they welcomed me into their home.
	I stayed with them for about three weeks or so.
	I cleaned every inch of his place, his training room.
	I organized his training room.
	I just worked every day.
	They'd have to drag me in for meals.
	And then he worked with me every day for training.
	I learned so much from him.
	And when I left, he cried when I left.
	I was like the daughter that he'd always wanted.
	And in a way, he was like the father that I wished I'd had because my parents, they liked animals, but they weren't like true animal lovers.
	Yeah, they didn't love them like you did.
	Yeah, I mean, I loved them right from the beginning.
	I mean, just drawn to them.
	It was my life calling.
	So you leave out of there, the documentary gets finished.
	And now you're a rat trainer.
	Yeah, and I'm a rat trainer.
	And then I ended up being a chicken trainer after that because Mark Lewis did a film called The Natural History of Chickens.
	He hired me again for that to train the chickens.
	And I didn't know anything about chickens when I took that job.
	Oh, yeah.
	You could.
	Yeah, it was, I mean, back then, the internet, there was just some Yahoo groups.
	And so, I mean, and he was a tough guy to work for, too.
	I mean, if you did, if things did not go right, I mean, he would just yell at you like two inches from your face.
	I mean, just so intense.
	And I mean, I saw there were nights when I worked on the rat film that I cried every night.
	But it was, you know, he was so good.
	I mean, he really knew what he wanted.
	Damn it, get these rats to do it or whatever.
	Yeah, it was just, he was very hardcore.
	And, you know, very few people survived working for a Mark Lewis film.
	But his film was, you know, one award.
	So when he asked me back to do the chicken, I didn't get yelled at the entire shoot.
	I mean, nobody could have a conversation with me during the chicken training portion because I was learning about chickens.
	There are so many things that could go wrong with this chicken training thing.
	I'm sure it's even just the term chicken training sounds like it's not going to work out.
	Oh, yeah.
	I had to have a white silky hen go broody, which means they lay on eggs.
	Right.
	So, and then once the chicken, once I found a chicken that actually laid eggs, because this broodiness has been bred out of them over the years, because most people want them for food or just eggs.
	Yeah, they don't want them to lay on them.
	So I had all these white, silky chickens, found one that laid eggs and sat on them.
	So then I had to take the eggs and put, replace them with golf balls, keep the eggs safe, then transport that chicken to somewhere in the south.
	I was somewhere out in the country with these chickens, working on these chicken, with these chickens.
	So I had to get them on the flight, get them to the location, and then put the eggs in an incubator.
	And on the exact day that he needed to shoot these chickens hatching, they had to hatch.
	So there were so many things that could have gone wrong.
	Yeah, so many things.
	We were playing God at that point, anyway.
	Yeah, it was so, still, so stressful.
	I had to train a rooster to crow on Q. And I had no idea.
	I mean, I was really, you know, I was self-taught.
	This is pre-internet.
	This is before you could look up all the things and just find answers.
	I mean, I was.
	And what do you do?
	Do you tickle them or whatever?
	What do you do to get a rooster to do it?
	Well, you would find, you'd find out what would make them crow naturally.
	So they actually, they kind of trained me.
	So I'd have a rooster in the downstairs with a baby monitor.
	So I'd be upstairs and anytime I heard that rooster crow, I'd go running downstairs and then I'd wave an American flag and click and treat and give the, you know, because I knew about clicker training at that point.
	So I would click and treat and give the rooster, you know, a reward for crowing.
	So I also, but I also knew that I needed to put it on a cue so that it couldn't just, we couldn't be waiting around for it to crow.
	I needed to signal for it to crow.
	So that's what the flag would say.
	So the flag would be like, I'm waving the flag.
	It's still crowing.
	I'm waving the flag.
	I'm clicking and treating and not really knowing what I'm doing, just hoping it's going to work.
	Create a pattern.
	Yeah, yes, yes.
	And people would be trying to talk to me and I'd be like, what if I taught the chicken to follow a ribbon?
	And we could put that ribbon on the camera and then the chicken would follow that camera everywhere because we need those camera like right now, right in the camera shots.
	I mean, nobody could talk to me about anything because I was so hyper-focused on making these chickens perfect for this, for this film.
	And I mean, it was, it turned out beautifully.
	I mean, I couldn't believe how all my hard work paid off.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	So it was, but I, you know, I think.
	It's pretty remarkable.
	Yeah.
	I mean, it really, considering I didn't really know anything about chickens when I took the job.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And it seems like an insane job to take and do.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yes.
	And then to pull it off.
	Yes.
	And to pull it off and not get screamed at once the entire shoot.
	Oh, yeah.
	That was amazing.
	Wow.
	So you got the rooster crowing.
	You got you've you're working with the chickens.
	So how do you then turn it over into acro rats you started with?
	Well, I started with the rats.
	Rats were first.
	So I had, after I met Moticeso, I had an idea that when I moved to Chicago, at this point, I've had rats since I was 16. So you've been a rat owner.
	You've had them?
	Yeah.
	I knew how smart they were.
	I knew how just one of the most trainable, smart animals ever.
	And they're also misunderstood.
	So I've always been drawn to those kind of social rejects of the animal world, the rats.
	The underdogs.
	The underdogs, exactly, the underdogs.
	So I started putting, you know, I was like, I bet you I could put a little show together.
	I'm going to teach these rats to do tricks.
	And I'm going to, you know, put a little show together.
	That'll get some attention to these rats.
	And then maybe I'll get that film, that big, you know, break that I wanted.
	So I was working in a pet shop at the time.
	In where?
	In Chicago?
	Yeah, in Chicago.
	I was at Newtown Aquarium.
	And the owner was a monster.
	Really?
	But, oh, yeah, he was just the worst human ever.
	Why was he even in the game?
	Why was he even in the money?
	The money.
	In the pet money?
	Well, there was other things he was doing.
	He was getting fish in from other countries.
	And there was more in with the fish than renaming them, not selling them.
	No, no.
	There were the fish that he was getting shipped in.
	There's white styrofoam on the bottom.
	Oh, those other things getting shipped in.
	Other things he was shipping in under.
	So it's probably a front.
	Yeah, so it was a front.
	But he also was, his idea was like, if I get 100 of these, I get a huge discount.
	If I get 100 of these annoles, if I get 100 of these Burmese pythons, and if they all die and I sell just one, I'll still make a profit.
	Wow.
	And so he didn't care about the animals.
	So I came in and I, of course, cared about the animals.
	I'm working overtime.
	I'm taking the animals home and separating all the snakes and feeding them so they don't eat each other.
	And I, you know, so I'm going to the library and researching on how to take care of these animals.
	So I was in charge of the rodents and the reptile section.
	They're arch nemesises, aren't they?
	Well, yeah, yeah.
	They are not friends.
	So the, you know, the rodents were downstairs and then the reptiles were upstairs.
	And I, so I'm learning about them, you know, having to go to the library and creating these cage cards so that when people came in, I could, I could educate them on, like, okay, you're interested in buying this particular lizard.
	Well, this is what it needs to what you need to take care of it, and it's going to need a heat, you know, heating light and a rock and all these various things.
	And so, so I did all my research and I was really, I mean, I did love the job, but he was just a monster.
	Yeah.
	And at that point, I had my little rat show trained up.
	Oh, perfect.
	So you got the rats.
	They're performing now.
	But yeah, they're performing in nightclubs and things like that.
	Okay, now, so that sounds like, yeah, I would love to see that.
	And it's something that's important.
	The rats are performing in nightclubs with you as the trainer.
	They're not.
	Okay, yeah.
	So with you as the trainer, the rats are performing in nightclubs.
	And you guys are, how many rats are in the show?
	There's probably maybe six, six, six or seven rats.
	And they climb up ladders, they jump through hoops, they'd even bowl.
	But the best trick was they would run, they'd drive up into an ambulance, and then they would go up a fire truck into a burning little kid's house with fake flames, of course, and there'd be a doll in the house.
	So the rats would go up the ladder, rescue the doll, come back down, and put it into the ambulance.
	No way.
	Yeah, so they were so much fun to teach and work with.
	And people were just amazed that these rats are doing these amazing tricks.
	So they're the amazing acro rats.
	And I had little business cards made up that said, the rat company trained acro rats for all occasions, film, television, live shows.
	And I told everybody at work that someday somebody's going to walk in that door and they're going to need a rat for a movie and I'm going to be ready for them, right?
	Wow.
	So that was a lot of your ambition.
	So you'd seen Mo DeSesso have this.
	You'd seen that documentary and then it had an effect on you.
	And then next, you know, you end up out there, you end up getting to work with him.
	So now you're really feeling like you're on the right path.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So you have the rat show going in Chicago.
	Yeah, yes.
	And you're performing where?
	You're performing after hours in the pet shop?
	Yeah.
	No, I'm not in the pet store, but I'm working.
	I'm like after hours in nightclubs.
	I was taking the rats and they'd hire me to bring the rats in.
	I don't even know if I got really hired or so.
	Maybe it was just kind of a pass-the-hat kind of thing.
	Because any opportunity I had to train these rats.
	Yeah.
	But how do you even approach that?
	Because in the beginning, if you say, hey, I'm going to come in later, I'm going to bring in a couple of rats.
	I think people are going to be like, I don't know.
	How do you have that initial conversation with some of the performance venues and stuff?
	Well, it was Chicago.
	Chicago was very kind of open-minded.
	They liked anything interesting and different.
	And my roommate had connections with certain nightclubs at that point.
	So she hooked me up with some of the nightclub people.
	And then word spread that there's Rat Lady.
	But who comes to the show?
	Is it just people that are at the nightclub that already staged performance at the nightclub?
	And it's like, now we're going to have the acro rat.
	Yeah, now the acroats are going to perform.
	We're going to do a couple shows.
	And, you know, it was just, it was just fun.
	It was basically, I'm just trying to get attention to these rats, hoping that I'm going to get this break at some point so that I can get to the next level.
	Okay.
	And so how does that start to happen?
	How does do you get a break?
	That's, well, the big break came in when I was in the pet, when I was working at the pet store.
	Okay.
	Waiting with my little business card, you know, the rat company.
	I named my company, the rat company.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Trained rats for all occasions, film, television, live shows, waiting for that moment, that big break.
	And these two guys walk into the pet store and they're like, we need a rat.
	We need a couple rats for film.
	And I'm like, I got your rats.
	I'll even, they can even answer a toy telephone.
	I'll do it for free just for the movie credit.
	So I got the job because my price was great.
	And because my boss was kind of a dream squasher.
	And with the movie industry, they don't give you a lot of notice.
	They call me on a Friday.
	They say, okay, your day's on Monday.
	That's so busy.
	Yep.
	So I asked for the day off and they said, nope, sorry.
	And so then I quit my job.
	I quit my full-time job for a one-day non-paying film shoot with rats.
	And it was my big break.
	Yeah, I mean, everything happened after that.
	WGN showed up.
	Okay, so hold on.
	So let's, so you get the break, you go to the set, you do the shoot with the rats.
	And how do they pull it off?
	Oh, I mean, the rats did perfectly.
	I went out to the, yeah, I mean, I went out there the day the day before, approximately.
	Practice with them and everything.
	Rehearsed them, so I kind of knew what they, you know, what, so they're not.
	And you kept talking on the way in, like, look, guys, this is it.
	Like, do you feel like you have that, you know, that you can create that ambiance with them that you guys are.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	We're just, I mean, there's like, it's really hard to get.
	Like just Phil Jackson kind of with them, you know?
	There's this like, it's like a, almost like a, an electric field.
	So especially when you're working on a, on a set with an animal and you can't be right next to them.
	So you've, you've done your training, you've done your prep with the rat or any animal, right?
	And now you're off camera and you have to send in the rat or whatever animal it is to do what you've trained them to do.
	And you're not, you can't be next to them.
	So there, if there's this like electric feel, like a communication going where, you know, like just like, you've got this, you've got this, you've got this, do this, do that, you know, and and and it, when it met, when it comes together and it's such a magical moment when, and they just pull it off.
	I mean, the whole crew applauds.
	I mean, they were just, everybody was just amazed that this, just, that this happened, right?
	And then a film crew showed up, you know, a news crew because they heard that there was going to be a rat lady, you know, on the movie set.
	So they coined me the Rat Lady of Chicago.
	Oh, God, beautiful.
	Yeah.
	So then CNN picked it up and broadcast this, you know, all over the country.
	And next thing you know, I'm flying to Italy to be on this show, the Mino D'Amato show on Christmas Eve with my trained rats.
	And it just snowballed from there.
	I mean, so you flew over there for Christmas Eve to be on an Italian Television show.
	Yes.
	And how many rats do you have with you?
	I had about six rats with me.
	Oh, yeah.
	And then, do you remember any of the names?
	Do you remember any of the oh, probably the Jasper and Ramsey and Cicero?
	And I named a lot of them.
	I named, I started to name them after streets in Chicago.
	So I had Cicero and Harlem.
	And yeah, Jasper and Ramsey came later on.
	But yeah, so a lot of them were Chicago streets.
	Gunshot would be one of them.
	Gunshot's a cute name, actually.
	Wow.
	So you have these rats and you guys are over there.
	Do you remember that?
	Was it Christmas Eve?
	What was it?
	Yeah, it was Christmas Eve and a show called The Miner to Motto Show.
	And they didn't give me an earpiece for translation.
	So the guy is like, and I'm like, no way.
	Like, don't know what you're saying.
	You're just sitting there and the guy is speaking what?
	It's, you know, I'm in Italy.
	He's speaking Italian.
	Yeah, speaking Italian.
	I don't know if any Italian.
	I'm like, I don't know what you're saying.
	But he realized that I didn't know I didn't know what he, I didn't have my earpiece.
	So then he translate.
	Luckily, he knew he both knew he knew Italian and English.
	So then he would repeat the question in English and then I would answer and then he would translate it back.
	So it was saved, but there was a deer in the headlights moment of like, oh no.
	Because you're also a very attractive woman.
	And was there ever any of these guys trying to like hit on you?
	Was there like a lot of love interest going on?
	Surprisingly, I did really well.
	And, you know, it is, in spite of being the rat lady and having rats crawling all over me, much better than the cat thing, or the cat thing was a real game killer.
	But as the rat lady, I mean, I did get, you know, I did have a lot.
	I mean, I had stalkers.
	Oh, really?
	But yeah, it was crazy.
	I had a guy show up in a limo outside of my house.
	A rich stalker?
	Yeah, yeah.
	He was very young.
	And apparently he had money.
	And he'd been, you know, like just kind of an adoring fan and wanted to take me for a limo ride.
	And I'm like, well, I don't really know you.
	But you got to go, huh?
	Well, I sat and had a drink with him in the limo.
	So I'm like, I've got to let you drive off with me in this limo.
	But I'll sit down here with you for a bit.
	Because I mean, after the whole, you know, WGN, Chicago Very Young, Rat Lady, and then CNN, and then the flying out to Italy, then didn't things just like snowballed?
	I was like on all the big talk shows and Geraldo and Paulie Shore.
	He had that series back then.
	Yeah.
	Oh, Pauly's World?
	He has a two-part episode where I trapped it, where I lock him in the room overnight with all the rats.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And was Paulie flirting with you?
	He likes the ladies.
	You know, if he was, I wasn't picking up on it because I really wasn't even familiar with him.
	I didn't even know who this guy was.
	I'm like, what's this weasel thing he keeps talking about?
	Yeah, because the weasel and the rats, that's really...
	That's the same marsupials, I think.
	Weasels, well, rodentia.
	Yeah, I don't think weasels are rodents.
	Weasels are more the ferret group and rats are rodents.
	So I don't think the weasels and rats are really related, but they might be enemies per se.
	Yeah, I can see that.
	So things really start going.
	The rat game is good.
	You're out there and you're and like, what's the show?
	How long is the show with the rats?
	Oh, the show is like maybe 10, 12, 15 minutes or so.
	God, so you're crushing it.
	And are people paying you good money to come and perform?
	No, not really.
	I mean, it was, it was, it was just, I mean, it was decent money then.
	I mean, it also was a nightclub.
	I got free drink.
	So and then whatever tips I might get, they might pay me a nominal fee.
	Cause I also, at that point, I had, you know, other animals.
	I had, you know, snakes.
	So they would hire me sometimes to walk around with a snake at a club and such.
	So, you know, it was kind of, you know, it was back in the 90s.
	So you got paid a nominal amount and then free drinks.
	So it was like fun.
	And you're getting to, you know, meet all these interesting people and kind of get paid a little bit to do it and have fun and just kind of build a name and get known.
	I mean, I became, I was like the rat lady of Chicago.
	And it all stemmed from this whole idea that I had.
	And then the guys walking in that pet store.
	What are the chances of that happening?
	I'm there.
	I get the movie job.
	I quit my job without hesitation.
	And bam, it just snowballs into all of these things.
	Yeah.
	I mean, yeah, look, if anybody knows the rat world, I know it and love it.
	You know, I know it and love it.
	I'm a rat and I'm a rat at heart.
	I've got the heart of a large rat, probably.
	And that's normal, I think.
	So if you're selling something online, it's, well, it can be hectic.
	I remember when we first started our online store, it was, it was, um, we were piecemealing it.
	We were trying to figure it out all ourselves.
	And it was, it was a nightmare.
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	And how do you get into that?
	Because now, I mean, what you've been most known for now would be the Acrocats.
	Yeah, now, yeah, known for the acrocats.
	But how do you get to that?
	How do you get from rats to cats?
	I mean, one could say it'd be easy to see how you would get there.
	Well, cats are notoriously difficult to work with.
	I had experimented putting a cat in one of my shows early on.
	Oh, with the rats?
	Yeah, with the rats.
	I had it like it was supposed to pull a sled, and the rats had little Santa hats on it.
	And the cat was going to wear like antlers and pull the sled.
	And it worked perfectly in rehearsal at home.
	Everything was great.
	And then I tried it in a live atmosphere and the cat was like, forget this.
	Just zips across the stage and the rats are like, you know, popping out of the sleigh.
	They're all fine.
	Yeah, they're just like, what's going on?
	Yeah, things have changed.
	Somebody called it an audible.
	They do have lines from Macbeth up there and shit.
	The cat abandons the sled.
	The rats crawl back in the sled and just sit there waiting for the, you know, what's next?
	The cat was crazy.
	So I was like, so I didn't work with cats for a long time, but years later, I had been working as a wildlife educator because at one point I discovered I couldn't make a living on just rats.
	So I kind of expanded and I was working pretty steadily teaching kids, you know, schools and libraries all about wildlife.
	So at that point, you kind of giving up on the rat.
	Oh, no, it's still the rat work.
	I'm still doing the rats.
	I'm still known.
	I'm still getting all the rat work.
	I was getting any music videos, any horror movies, anything that came into town that needed a trained rat.
	Any rat work.
	Any rat work.
	I'm getting the rat work.
	You're the best.
	I am the one to come to for the rat.
	Yeah.
	God, that's so good.
	And then what about, so you're getting the rat work.
	You're also realizing the, but you start to realize that it's not enough income.
	Yeah, yes.
	Yeah.
	And where are the rats living?
	Do the rats live with you?
	Oh, always.
	All the animals always live with me all the time.
	Like it's never been a separation of me and the animals.
	And would y'all sleep in separate rooms or what's that like?
	I had a rat room at one point.
	I was the landlord's worst nightmare, really.
	I mean, I just, those rats were, I mean, I had a whole room full of them just dedicated to the rats.
	And would they get out sometimes?
	I mean, they chewed a hole in the screen of the apartment I was in.
	I guess I heard them move every like three years.
	And I'm on the sidewalk and I'm looking up, you know, my second floor apartment and I see rats on the ledge.
	And I was like, what's going on?
	Why are the rats out on the ledge?
	And I go upstairs and I'm like, oh, they chewed a hole through the screen and they were climbing across the ledge and then hopping in the window to the rest of my house.
	So I'm like, oh, well, so I had to do some patchwork and such.
	But yeah, now, do you think that they didn't want to be a part of the show anymore?
	No, they were just being rats.
	I mean, they had a whole room.
	I wanted them to have freedom.
	Oh, yeah.
	And have, you know, because there were ropes and ladders and all sorts of toys in there for them.
	So, but they're also rats.
	They're going to do what rats do.
	They're rodents.
	They're going to chew.
	Oh, yeah.
	Rats going to do rats.
	And yeah.
	So there was a lot of them because, you know, also, especially for Halloween, you know, that was a big hiring time for me with the rats and to be the, you know, the, like, I don't have the rat lady in a haunted house and such.
	So, but yeah, you know, the rats and all the animals, I raised all my animals from babies and they were part of my daily life.
	I took them everywhere with me.
	And, you know, I'm their mom.
	And you have to, especially if you're working with any animal in any kind of public setting, you, you know, you need to acclimate them to that early on.
	And that's, that's a, you know, it's a lot of work and dedication to be carting around.
	You know, I'd be walking down the street.
	I'd be pushing a stroller or carrying a carrier.
	You know, people be like, they'd have this look on their face, like, oh, I can't wait to see what's in the carrier.
	And then I'd just see their face drop when they'd see that it was rats.
	They were like, the color drains out of their face.
	They can't handle it.
	Yeah, yeah.
	They're like, oh, but because the rats are just misunderstood, but they're such wonderful pets.
	And I turned so many people into rat lovers.
	I convinced parents to get your child a rat, not a hamster.
	They're just misunderstood.
	It's just the name, but they're the best.
	They won't ever bite your child.
	You can teach them names.
	You can teach them tricks.
	They are affectionate.
	They're the best pet that you can buy for a child.
	But, you know, it was, it was, so I turned a lot of people into rat lovers.
	Well, we used to, one of my first jobs was selling hamsters when I was growing up.
	We used to sell them outside of raves and concerts.
	And I grew up in a hamster breeding area.
	And so you'd see a lot of Rodentius, small Rodentia, small ground game.
	The Roborovskies were the ones that were sold then.
	I don't know if you're familiar with that strand of them.
	But that was the like kind of the popular strand of hamp that was going on in our area.
	Bring it up, the Roborovskies, if you can there, Ben.
	If you don't mind.
	Yeah, this is the dwarf hamsters.
	These are a lot of what we were peddling back in the day.
	Oh, yeah.
	No, I had, I had hamsters growing up, too.
	Beautiful.
	And a lot of that market went to Russia eventually.
	They started getting these Russian imported hamsters.
	And that for a while, that killed a lot of the, like they started getting more like the red-eyed, the small white red-eyed hamsters.
	Still cute, but not what a lot of kids were looking for, really.
	And that really, I think, a lot had to do with like a lot of that Stephen King kind of when he, you know, when that kind of stuff took off.
	So you really were like a mother to a lot of these rats.
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, I, I, you know, hand raised them all.
	Do you ever get any issues with the actual mother of the rats?
	Was there ever any moments where you had to be like, let them know that they, it was a shared territory or that you were just there to help?
	I mean, it's, it's, I, it's, I didn't like take the rats away from their mother prematurely, but as soon as they were weaned, I mean, the mom rat isn't really like, these are my children.
	I want to take care of them.
	Oh, she's not.
	Yeah, no, they're like, go, I'm tired of y'all.
	So, you know, once, once they're weaned, you know, then I would start to, you know, I'd carry them around in my pocket or, you know, you know, on my shoulder, maybe in my hair, you know, just carry them around everywhere.
	That's beautiful.
	So that they were, you know, they were like, you know, part, you know, part of me and they were very comfortable, you know, to be held and to be on me.
	They'd be on, you know, my shoulder.
	They'd go to someone else's shoulder, back to my shoulder.
	You know, Very personable.
	They've got such great personalities.
	They're just misunderstood.
	So you say, or you say that misunderstood.
	Yeah.
	And look, baby girl, I think it's beautiful that you love these animals so much.
	I think it's just important to find something to love, you know?
	And what's so misunderstood about them, do you feel like?
	Well, they just have a bad reputation.
	How did they get it, though?
	Well, I mean, they started it.
	Yeah, they did.
	But, I mean, well, the whole plague, the plague didn't help.
	Yeah, that didn't help.
	And then, of course, there always play villains in the movies.
	So, you know, the Ben and the Willard movies.
	Chuck E. Cheese, they tried to bring him back and give him a little bit of that.
	That was kind of some good PR, I feel like.
	Well, yeah, but it's still like, you know, just that we're rat.
	You know, ratatouille helped some.
	Yeah, that definitely did help some.
	And people are definitely, I mean, there's now there's rat fanciers.
	I mean, there's a lot of people.
	There's a lot of rat ladies out there now.
	Oh, I'm a damn rat king.
	I mean, our tour is Return of the Rat Tour.
	Yeah.
	That's our stand-up comedy tour is the Return of the Rat Tour.
	And so I certainly get that some people don't understand the value of a rat.
	Yeah, yeah.
	It's just, you know, the name rat.
	So sometimes I tell people it was an African gerbil or a Honduran hamster, Honduran long-tailed hamster.
	And that changes their attitude.
	And then they're like, oh, okay, it's kind of cute.
	And then like two months later, I'll be like, it's actually a rat.
	But then they're in love.
	They're already in love, yeah.
	Or one of these Jamaican branch kittens or whatever, and you trick them or whatever.
	And it's just, yeah, it's just, I'm like, yeah, it's just your buddy.
	It's your buddy Marvin or whatever or whatever.
	Ship them.
	I've had to transport them because I was flying out, you know, being flown to places, you know, Los Angeles to do things.
	And so I'd have to bring, you know, get the rat, take the rats on the flight.
	And I'd have the health certificate say, you know, Honduran long-tailed hamster.
	Because if you got the wrong person and they saw rats, they don't want rats on their plane.
	So I just put it on the, you know, they don't want a certificate.
	And they'd be like, they look a lot like rats.
	And I'm like, yeah, don't they?
	Yeah, a little bit.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's very, it's a very exotic hamster that does look a bit like rats.
	Yeah.
	And what was your life like personally at the time?
	Like, what was your, were you married?
	Were you single?
	Never married.
	Never married.
	No, no.
	When you know what you want to do and you're seven years old, and it was, it was my life dream.
	You can't, like, I mean, marriage is a job.
	I mean, it's, I mean, it's all, it's all fun and romance in the beginning.
	But if you, if you have a, if you actually sign the paper and you have a partnership with somebody, now your actions affect them.
	And I wanted to be able to hop on a flight and take a job anywhere, you know, because I knew what I wanted to do at such a young age.
	And then, you know, my life decisions would be affecting another person if I got married.
	And that's too much.
	Yeah.
	And I wanted my freedom.
	I wanted freedom to pursue my passion, my dream, what I wanted to do since I was seven.
	So it was just not, my parents, they were married for 54 years, wonderful marriage, like literally like, honey, I'm home.
	There was no arguing in the house.
	It was, it was just like out of, it was like out of the, out of a movie.
	It was like Pleasantville.
	I always tell people, I came from Pleasantville, but it seemed a little, you know, boring and stifling.
	And I wanted to adventure and excitement and go places and do things and train, you know, train animals for film and television.
	And I loved horror movies.
	So obviously rats were the way to go.
	And yeah, it just, so I never, yeah, I did not go to take the marriage route.
	Yeah, I didn't go to the moment.
	Was there love at some point?
	And it was just, did you ever date a man and they just couldn't accept the animalia that was in your life?
	I mean, I've had great romances.
	I mean, I've had boyfriends throughout the years and, you know, wonderful love affairs and relationships that a lot of times I'd kind of have to break up with them in the spring because it was baby season.
	So when baby season came around and I'm bottle feeding animals, it's really hard to maintain the romantic relationship.
	Yeah, it's hard to breastfeed a man.
	They're just like, I'm bottle feeding, you know, and I'm like, it's all right.
	I mean, I got to bottle feed these animals like round the clock.
	But that's an excuse I think you hear a lot from women.
	They're like, oh, I have to wash my hair.
	I have to bottle feed these animals.
	I have to bottle feed these animals.
	I think that's something that sometimes you would hear a lot.
	Like, I've definitely heard that from girls before.
	I have to bottle feed these animals.
	Yeah.
	We have to redo the stairs at my dad's house or whatever.
	I'm like.
	It's another excuse.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah, definitely.
	I'm getting my teeth remodeled or whatever.
	I'm like, you're lying to me.
	I can show you the baby animals.
	I'm bottle feeding it.
	And never some that actually wanted to participate.
	And, you know, so, I mean, I've had boyfriends and relationships throughout the years.
	It's, but I just, I just never wanted to, you know, I've even had the marriage proposals.
	Like, they really wanted, yeah, they wanted to marry me because I, I'm, yeah, I'm a real, I'm actually a really great girlfriend.
	And, you know, I'm loyal and driven and creative.
	And, you know, but I still have a fun side and I'm smart.
	And, you know, I'm just like, there's a lot of things, but I'm not, I don't want to do dishes and I don't want to do that whole housewife stuff.
	Right.
	You don't want to be a housewife.
	I don't want to be a housewife.
	And so many, you know, you want to be Tarzan's wife, kind of.
	I just want to have, yeah, I don't want to, but so many, that's the end game is just like, it's got to lead somewhere.
	So it's not going to lead to marriage and you doing my laundry.
	Right.
	I want to be able to have my own freedom.
	I want to do, I want to live my life the way I want to live it.
	No, I certainly understand that.
	I mean, I understand that 100%.
	I didn't, for years, I didn't, when people were married, I was like, what do you even mean you're married?
	That seems crazy to me.
	But like, it took me a long time to even consider being married one day.
	For so long, I was just so again, not against it, but I just wanted to live.
	I wanted to be free and see who I was or who I wasn't without also affecting somebody else, you know, too heavily.
	But then, even in relationships, I haven't done the best job of being a relationship man.
	I want to get into the cats.
	I'm glad that you talked about the rats because rats are near and dear to my heart in the sense of being that underdog, being that animal that doesn't get looked at twice sometimes, you know, or people would rather look at it almost disapprovingly before they even give it a chance to look at it, even just with a look of possibility, right?
	Rats don't really get that very much.
	Now, how do you get to the cats?
	How do you start catting around?
	And just so we know, so we're talking a regular size cat.
	How tall is it again?
	If we had one of them in here, you'd be able to see.
	How tall is a cat?
	Can you look that up?
	How tall is a regular cat?
	It's a I mean, it would be about.
	Oh, 9.1 to 9.8 inches.
	Wow.
	Okay.
	So, yeah, about 10-inch cat.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So 10 inches in height.
	Okay.
	How do you get into cats?
	How do we get to AcroCats?
	How do we get to And I didn't, I was always, I've always been skeptical of cats, to be honest.
	I've been skeptical of a lot of stuff.
	And cats was one of those things.
	And, you know, my stepdad would always even say stuff, like he would call the cats names sometimes, like even in the neighborhood, or he'd call them like homosexuals or whatever.
	Just say, you know, just stuff you say to cats or whatever.
	And so I was always like, oh, man, I don't know if cats are okay or not.
	And then my ex-girlfriend had two cats.
	She loved them.
	And she has been to your show before.
	Oh.
	And she loved it.
	And so she was telling me about it one time and it just blew my mind.
	I was like, there's somebody just carting cats around and just do, and the cats are doing shows and performing and putting on shows.
	And it just, I mean, it just shook me to the core of my curiosity.
	Where'd she see the show?
	I want to say she saw it in Portland, Oregon.
	Okay, yeah.
	Yeah.
	We've not been able to make it back out.
	This was years ago.
	Yeah.
	We've post-COVID, we've had been a lot of struggles getting things back, but we have not been able to get all the way back out to Oregon yet.
	But we always did love going to the West Coast before everything fell apart.
	What fell apart?
	There was a series of things.
	Well, I got diagnosed with cancer.
	Oh, you did?
	Yes.
	Very sorry to hear that.
	But I was cured.
	I went through treatment, was cured.
	Oh, I'm happy to hear that.
	So I took one year off to get my health back.
	And then the next year, I was immediately back out on tour, did a nine-month tour.
	With the cat.
	Acrocats.
	With the cats.
	And right, you know, at the end of that tour, a driver that we had had for four or five years scammed me and tried to basically steal the bus.
	So it just wiped us out financially.
	And just as we were trying to explore the options of trying to bring justice to what has happened, COVID hits.
	So, you know, it was just bam, bam, bam.
	Man.
	Yeah.
	So, and then because the bus set for two years without being able to tour, when we finally got it back, and then we had to undo all the damage that this guy had done because he was supposed to be converting another bus first because he said, this bus is no good.
	It's dangerous to drive.
	We'll get it.
	We'll get, find a shell of a bus, and then I'll transfer everything over to the, you know, that's usable.
	He was like, oh, it was all a lie.
	It was all a lie.
	In the meantime, he was just retrofitting my bus that was actually perfectly fine.
	There's issues with it, but it was not a death trap like he said it was.
	He stripped the wrap off of it because it was covered with cats.
	It was gorgeous wrap.
	Stripped the wrap off of it.
	He tore out the interior, took out all the cat, you know, catification, the kitten city area.
	He just demolished.
	And he was putting a bedroom in the back.
	I mean, he just, I guess he was going to flip it.
	And I don't know how his endgame was going to work because I still had the title.
	I mean, I just paid the thing off.
	And we'd raise it.
	It's not like I bought, we got it through a Kickstarter.
	So the fans donated money to get this bus.
	It's not like you can go out and buy another bus.
	And why did he do this so much?
	Was he just a driver?
	He was kind of a pathological liar.
	And he was young, which made prosecution really difficult because he small town.
	The sheriff, family has the sheriff in the pocket.
	What do you mean, Ricky did that?
	Yeah, it seems like a he said, she said kind of thing.
	And I mean, that sheriff just questioned me like I was the bad one.
	And pretty much because he doesn't have assets, no lawyer is going to choose.
	Yeah, the lawyer, it's like, I mean, it's not about the money.
	It's about justice.
	He committed a felony.
	What a piece of shit.
	I mean, he just decimated me to my core.
	I mean, I'll never, I mean, I had dreams of doing so much more as far as good work.
	I mean, I could have been one of those people out in crisis situations like Katrina rescuing animals because we were in a really good place at that point before the scam happened and, you know, and that setback.
	And then we've just had to put so much money into the bus to get it back to its original shape.
	And then everything's dry rot having to sit for so long while COVID was going on because we couldn't travel.
	And we're still sinking right now.
	It's sitting in a shop in Iowa.
	And they were supposed to be fixing this light up.
	And they're like, they decided, well, we're not going to be able to get to it.
	We thought it was going to be That this would fix it, but it didn't.
	And now we have other jobs that are more important than you.
	So we basically get the bus back and it's not fixed.
	And it's all Iowa is the only place that can fix this issue.
	So once again, it just hit again, hit hard with nothing, with it not being repaired, having to spend this money.
	Bad luck and bad actors.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Bad actors.
	Bad people that just are not being helpful.
	And especially as a female, too, it's a struggle to get respect as a woman, to get things done as a woman.
	I resort to having a guy make that call because I can't get anything done.
	That's unfortunate.
	I'm sorry that that happens.
	Yeah, so it was definitely rough times.
	And we're just finally kind of getting, you know, getting things rolling again.
	And it's just hard to find help post-COVID.
	Nobody wants to work.
	Nobody wants to travel.
	It's hard to find girls whose boyfriends will let them go on the road.
	It's bizarre.
	There's that double standard.
	Guys can tour, girls can't.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, and we need more women out there entertaining everybody.
	It's important.
	So how do we get from rats to cats?
	Take me on some of that journey.
	So I was, you know, the rats, I had to, I had to, I realized I couldn't make a living on just rats, so I became the rat company and friends.
	And then I ended up changing the name to Amazing Animals.
	And I was doing the wildlife shows.
	So I was doing those.
	And was that a traveling show as well?
	No, no, it was, well, it was kind of traveling.
	Like you were going to school.
	Schools and stuff like that.
	But it wasn't like the tourism.
	It wasn't touring yet.
	So I fell in love with touring way later on.
	And that's kind of when the cats came into play.
	So I was doing the wildlife shows and libraries and schools, educating kids.
	But my heart and soul was I still wanted to train animals for film and television.
	So I realized that you wanted to show animals.
	You wanted, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I just was like, always what I wanted to do is see my, you know, and see my cats in a commercial.
	I was like, see my animals in a commercial.
	So there's, you know, there's not so much rat work out there.
	There's just not a whole lot.
	So I thought, well, maybe I should, you know, there's a lot of dog trainers out there.
	The rats, you know, have kind of met their limit.
	You know, let's revisit the cat.
	I know we had that one experience where there was, I was like, there's got to be a way to work these cats.
	So you still want to do animals for film and television?
	And you decide you're going to give cats another shot?
	Yeah, let's give cats another shot because I've always loved, always loved cats, but I know they are difficult to work with.
	They're small, so there's a lot of predators out there.
	So they're a little bit like, what could get me?
	What could get me?
	So, you know, I had no idea.
	You know, I had no idea.
	Like, I needed to figure out how to make this work.
	And so I thought, what if I did what I did all those years ago with the, like, with like with the rats and try that with the cats, put a little show together and start taking it around to like low-key, no pressure, not charging money, just passing the hat.
	I started in art galleries.
	So basically, like, I'm going to let the cats teach me how to teach them.
	Okay.
	And so do you set up something kind of at home?
	Do you audition some cats?
	Like, how do you?
	So I had this cat, Tuna, that had come into my life that was brilliant.
	I mean, she was very focused, wanted to learn.
	I had learned clicker training, a lot more about clicker training at this point.
	So I was, it actually started with Tuna.
	Tuna was the inspiration behind the whole thing.
	I was taking her to pet expos, just kind of showing off what she could do.
	You know, and I'd have her ring a bell and tap a tip jar at a rescue table.
	And then I donate, you know, donate whatever she got into the rescue.
	And so I was just taking her everywhere.
	I was taking her to the film festivals and having her play a guitar and ring a bell and do some things, trying to get her some work there.
	And I thought, well, let's, you know, try putting a show together.
	And so I found an art gallery that was looking for some kind of entertainment.
	And the band I had put together already at that point.
	And that was pretty solid.
	The band, what do you mean?
	The Rock Cats.
	So we had guitar, drums, and piano.
	And these are cats performing.
	Yeah, so the band actually came first.
	And what cats were in it?
	Tuna's in it?
	Tuna played the cowbell, but that came later.
	Okay.
	So she was the donation collector for the band.
	Okay.
	So she's really, yeah.
	She's got to earning the bucks.
	Yeah.
	She's the one, you know, like, hey, better put some money in this tip, Jarcon.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	You got to have that.
	And the band had a curtain, so the Rock Cats, they had their own table.
	They had their instruments had their scent on it.
	So the cat band seemed to work.
	Now, the rest of the act, I mean, I went to Home Depot.
	I got a couple ladders and big rope.
	And then, you know, some, I tied weights to the ladders to keep them from folding in.
	And I found some stools at IKEA.
	My initial setup was very crude, just whatever could, you know, there's a lot of like dog agility props, small dog agility props.
	So then I find an art gallery.
	I'd set everything up.
	And the cats, I mean, it was just the cats would come out.
	They'd like look around and stretch, groom a little bit.
	And, you know, it was kind of just an utter fail.
	I mean, there was a lot of fails, right?
	They wouldn't perform.
	Was it stage fright or was it anger?
	Do they hate?
	They didn't, this is all, this is new to them.
	This is new to me.
	Yeah, they don't even know that they're a showcat yet.
	Yeah, so I'm like trying to figure out, okay, what do you need to make you comfortable?
	So I started bringing my own floor, like a rollout floor.
	So I brought a floor that had their scent on it.
	And I realized that they're always doing this.
	Like, okay, I go, okay, they don't like knowing what's behind, not what, you know, what is behind them.
	They need to know what's behind them.
	So then I put up a backdrop behind them.
	So now they have a solid back wall behind them.
	They have a floor that they're familiar with the scent.
	And I've been working them at home.
	And now I'm bringing them into this new environment.
	Tuna's pretty solid.
	She'll do her trick.
	She'll ring her bell.
	She'll do the various things.
	The other cats.
	She's your go-to.
	Yeah, she's the go-to.
	Now, the other cats are a little bit, you know, hesitant.
	They're a little slow.
	But they're doing it, but they're doing it, but they're doing it at their own pace.
	So then I would just have to come up with funny things to say while we're waiting for the cats to maybe do something or maybe not do something.
	So you had to be the performer at that point.
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, I've consistently had to be the performer because those cats are mixing it up every show.
	I never know what's going to happen or not happen.
	And because it's, I have a cat, well, also, because I have a personal relationship with the cats.
	They're not just kenneled where they just come out during training and then they're back to the kennels.
	I mean, I watch television with these cats.
	I sleep with these cats.
	You know, like I spend, I take them on road trips.
	So cats would sometimes sleep in your bed.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.
	I mean, especially if it's a little cold, you know, pile on more cats.
	I mean, yeah, it's just unlimited cats.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	They purr.
	It's so comforting.
	I mean, just I love them.
	So they're my babies.
	I've raised some of them from two days old and, you know, bottle feed, you know, so, you know, saved hundreds of kittens with bottle feeding because that's like one of my, turned out to be one of my superpowers is to be able to save little babies.
	And so like little by little, the cats taught me what they needed to feel comfortable, you know, on stage.
	And they started to, you know, the applause, there's something called like a secondary reinforcer.
	So there's a primary reinforcer, which is the food.
	Click equals treat.
	You hear the click, they get a treat.
	So then the applause actually starts, and laughter also becomes a secondary reinforcer.
	So they're like, oh, if we hear applause or laughter, that means we're doing good.
	We're going to get a treat.
	And so of course they'll take advantage of and do things just to get that laughter, which ends up kind of paying off in the show because people just find it hysterical.
	This cat comes out, doesn't, sometimes they just leave the stage and sit out in the crowd the whole time, come back, sit on a stage.
	It's like Kodak Black or something.
	Yeah, they decide what they want to do, when they want to do it, if they want to do it.
	And I just kind of follow helplessly along and come up with some witty banner to cover their slowness and their fail moments.
	And, you know, it's kind of like my story as well and how each of these cats came into my life, their story, how they came in, you know, how they came to be, what their special skills are.
	I see.
	So a lot of it is not as much, there's certainly some training of the actual cats.
	Yes.
	But there's also you training yourself just to understand that these are cats and I need to try and just make it as comfortable an environment for them to be here.
	And then I need to train myself how to react if they don't react.
	Yes, yes.
	Or how to react to whatever they're doing.
	Yeah.
	And they're also interesting.
	So they're almost like improv.
	Oh, it is improv.
	It's totally improv.
	Yeah.
	So, and they come out.
	We have carriers that they're in.
	And when they come out of their carrier, the doors of their carriers are open.
	The carriers are a safe place for them.
	It's like a portable.
	It's like a green room.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, you know, like they know that that's a safe place.
	All of my cats are whistle trained to go to a carrier, which is great for emergency situations.
	If you need to call your cats quickly and get them out of the house because there's a fire or some disaster, the fact that you can blow a whistle and the cats come running, they go in the carriers.
	They're used to traveling.
	So if they're not feeling it or they're having an uncomfortable moment and they're not liking the person in the front row that has big hair, which I'm always picking up on, I'm always watching the cats.
	I'm watching the audience.
	I'm watching, like just constantly reading and communicating with these cats while doing the show and making mental notes about, okay, you know, Wiki does not like people with big hair in the front row.
	They do not like wheels rolling by.
	That's, you know, that's babies crying.
	Everything stops when the babies cry.
	So it's, yeah, it's, there's a lot of challenges, but if they don't feel like coming, or if they have a moment, they're like, I need to, I'm going to, I'm going to go back to the carrier, they can do that.
	So they're, they, that is their safe, that's their safe, you know, it's like a portable base camp for them.
	So when I, when I take them out for like outings or camping, you know, I have a harness on them, and then I also have a backpack.
	So wait, camping, is that part of the show?
	Is that no, that's just for fun.
	That's just for fun.
	Okay, you guys will go camping?
	Yeah, oh, yeah, because when I, when I'm raising new kittens and to, to, you know, either to adopt, yeah, to adopt out or to be in the show, you know, I want to bomb proof them so that they're comfortable in any atmosphere because, you know, the way the world is today, disaster could be around any corner.
	Yeah.
	And these cats need to be able to be comfortable being transferred to other areas.
	And, you know, loud noises.
	So I was, you know, I have clicker.
	So clicker and anytime they're freaked out by something, especially there's a window of time with kittens where they adapt really quickly.
	Like they may hear thunder and be like, right?
	And then I click and treat during that moment and I turn that bad experience into a good experience.
	Now, next time it thunders, they're like, oh, well, that's nothing.
	And square in my treat.
	Yeah.
	So even fireworks and such.
	I mean, I click and treat during, my cats are not bothered by fireworks because they've all been, I've can, you know, whenever fireworks have been around, I've had the clicker and the treats out and click and treat and click and treat.
	So anything that they found distressing, and I, and I've learned more and more over the years since I've been doing this, since I put it together in like 2005, and I, you know, over the years, I've gotten better at reading the cats, knowing what they need.
	I don't need the floor anymore for them.
	We still have the back.
	We still have a like a solid back wall, but they've just gotten better.
	I mean, are cats trustworthy?
	That's what I wear.
	I mean, are cats trustworthy?
	Oh, no, my goodness.
	I mean, we have the treats and we have cups of treats and various cats have their favorite treats.
	Some cats have allergies, so we have to have turkey for the cats that have allergies.
	We have to have the primo treats for cats like Asti, who's a seasoned pro and is, you know, is literally, we negotiate when it comes to her pole climb and jump to my back trick.
	Like there's a negotiation that happens Every time she's like, What do you got?
	Oh, she's like the OBJ of cats.
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	Yeah, who's in the show?
	What are some of the big like tuna was obviously is tuna still on the show?
	Well, the original tuna passed away to cancer.
	Oh.
	So I. And how did you guys do that?
	Did you guys, did you guys have a ceremony or anything like that?
	Well, I mean, by then, because I've, I've, you know, I've been tregged and traveling.
	Were you all on the road when it happened?
	It happened during, you know, like right after right after tour.
	So I had like one last round of shows with her, and then I knew that it was going to be time.
	So it was after our show.
	And every year we go to New Orleans for Christmas.
	So that was kind of her last time.
	And so I got to, you know, so we had January and February off.
	So I got to spend time with her.
	And, you know, and the fan, you know, I had to let the fans know that this was going on.
	And because these people have supported us through the years, through all the disasters, all the crises, you know, the fans have been helping us through.
	And so they know the cats.
	It's not like the days of Lassie were bringing another Lassie.
	I couldn't just be like, bring in another Tuna.
	But I did.
	I let the fans know that Tuna's passing.
	And I had five white cats that came in to audition to take her place.
	And Tuna helped train, you know, the training process kind of helped pick the protégés.
	And of course, nobody could top.
	Tuna was just brilliant.
	So now we have two tunas that took the place of the original tuna.
	And one of them's Ahi Tuna and one's Albacore tuna.
	Oh, okay.
	So you still have some tunas, but it's different now.
	Yes.
	And the original tuna helped choose these ones?
	Yes.
	So there's pictures of the original tuna next to Ahi Tuna and Alba, you know, they're both ringing bells.
	And so it kind of, you know, made everybody part of the process and everyone, you know, everyone grieved together for the loss and embraced the new tunas.
	So, you know, I keep people, you know, in volume.
	Yeah, because it's a famous love, yeah.
	People love, I mean, my ex-girlfriend is a cat lover.
	She loved her cats.
	You know, she loved them.
	She was a good cat mom and she loved them.
	And she, I was amazed.
	It was one thing that even just showed me how good she was at loving people was just, you know, how much she could love a cat and really, you know, think about a cat.
	Did you guys bury Tuna anywhere special or how did that go down?
	We cremated her.
	So she's, I have like a whole little glass area with the various, you know, Pinky was the first to go.
	She was my guitar player.
	She was a guitar player.
	She was my best guitar player ever.
	And then Tuna, then, you know, when we lost, you know, the pandemic was really tough on the cats because they're used to that so much stimulus.
	They love working.
	I mean, if the cats aren't working, their health, just like with people, if a person quits, you know, no purpose, if they lose their purpose in life, then they kind of, their health and mental health is affected.
	So, you know, we lost a couple cats during that COVID time.
	And I just lost two 17-year-old cats that had been from the beginning.
	They were my, from the very beginning, when I first started training cats, they were there with me.
	And then to, you know, lose, lose them within four months of each other.
	And who were their names?
	And that was Oz and Nui.
	And Oz, is that Middle Eastern?
	Well, as Oz, well, I was watching Oz, that series, Oz, with the Oswald State Penitentiary.
	Oh, okay.
	I was bottle feeding Iddy and Oz, and it would take one episode per kitten per feeding.
	So I chewed through that entire series.
	And so that's how Oz got his name from, you know, from Oz.
	And he had a little bit of a, every once in a while, he would just go get crazy and beat up an orange cat for, you know, just out of nowhere.
	And I think that's a good thing.
	Very prison-like behavior.
	Yeah, I think it's because, you know, he was listening to all that violence in the background.
	I should have chosen some more friendly programming for him to listen to because he definitely had a temper, right?
	I was just like, Oz, you're the sweetest cat we have.
	What's going on?
	Why are you acting out like this?
	He's got a dark side.
	Yeah, he had a very dark side, but everybody loved Oz.
	I mean, he was, I mean, he didn't do much.
	He was not the brightest one, but everybody loved him so much.
	We came up with tricks that he could do that were kind of fake tricks in the show.
	And, you know, like he jumped through a tissue paper hoop, but, you know, it was only this far.
	And he'd basically tear open the tissue paper and walk through the other side.
	And it was just so endearing.
	People loved that.
	And magical.
	God damn, I love seeing cats do something if it's good.
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, Newy was number one in the end.
	Towards the end, she was brilliant.
	She could do a lot.
	She was one of my best film cats, too.
	But she would, at the end, she was like, I'm going to do the One thing, who's number one?
	Raise my paw, and then I'm going to play the piano, and that's it.
	That's all I'm going to do.
	And I was like, all right.
	A lot of seniors get like that.
	They got one, you know, they do their last trick or they'll, you know, you know, and then they'll just want to have a little bit of dessert and go to bed early or whatever.
	Oh, yeah.
	She was such a cranky cat.
	She used to lay on my chest and growl and purr at the same time.
	I mean, just that was so tough losing her because she was my baby.
	And like, Oz loved everybody, but New Ye loved me.
	And, you know, so that it was really rough to, you know, when you have to make that decision to let him go.
	And so now I have, you know, the youngest cat right now is two years.
	And, but we're auditioning because we just had to retire two of our other seniors.
	So we're auditioning new cats for the show.
	So we have two potentials.
	We actually brought two of them, the two, two that we think are good acro cat potential.
	One's named Crush because she was the only survivor in a salvage lot and a car that was about to be crushed.
	Oh.
	So we got to her in the nick of time.
	Yeah, it really is a great name.
	And she is just so, I mean, one training session, she's already hopping on the skateboard.
	Like, I'm ready to ready to do this.
	And can you tell cats that want to be in the show and cats that don't?
	Is that something?
	Well, it's hard to know.
	Females generally work better.
	Like all the females have had a better work ethic than the males.
	The males are a little bit more like, why don't we just, you know, hang out and watch TV?
	And yeah, like, you know, do I really like Alba Cortuna is, you know, he's like, he plays a cowbell and he'll like hit it once.
	And I'm like, come on, like, how about, how about three?
	And he's like, one, two, three.
	So, I mean, they do, they do understand.
	Well, a lot of people don't want to work anymore.
	I think it's a problem that we've had across the animal kingdom and the human kingdom.
	Oh, yeah.
	That a lot of the work ethic is disappearing.
	How did the touring start?
	So I had just come back from a thing called a festival of cultures, where I was doing a wildlife program that was touring.
	So we were touring with five other groups, Polynesian Paradise, Africa, the European, where they did sword fighting.
	Are these all animal shows or they were an educational tour?
	So they basically were educating people about this culture.
	And some of it was more fun, you know, like Europe, they did sword fighting and Native America was, that was a little bit more educational.
	And then I represented wildlife of the world.
	So my little segment would be bringing out various animals and doing my little wildlife presentation to teach people like, you know, these various animals from these parts of the world.
	And that's when I fell in love with touring.
	I mean, that's when I was traveling in an ambulance initially.
	And you guys got an old ambulance and turned it into the AgroCats.
	Well, I turned it, that was for the wildlife of the world.
	And then I got a small RV after that.
	So that last year, I had the band together and I set it up on the kitchen table in this RV that we had.
	And so people would be walking by the RV and I'd be like, hey, you want to see something cool?
	And I open up the RV doors and the band would play.
	You know, the cat band would play.
	And they're like, what?
	Because usually it's something for its sex.
	Yeah, you want to see something really, you know, like, you know, I don't know.
	I'm not sure.
	So that's.
	You want to see something short?
	Yeah.
	That's when I knew that maybe I could do something with these cats.
	So when I got back and I knew that wildlife, they weren't going to be including us in the next round of tours.
	And at this point, I would fallen in love with touring and traveling and stuff like that.
	What did you like about it?
	Oh, just seeing things.
	Just get to see, you know, because we try to stay in places for, you know, we don't tour like a band does where you're just one-off, one-off, one-off.
	What fun is that?
	So, but if we stay in a place for like three weeks to get to know people, I mean, I have, we go to New Orleans for like almost a month every December.
	So I have friends there.
	I mean, I get to enjoy, I get to enjoy that city.
	You know, I get San Diego, beautiful weather right by the oceans, the sea lions, all the things that you can see in these other cities that are awesome.
	We're going to the East Coast this year.
	So, you know, Portland, Maine, absolutely love it right there.
	But we're performing so close to the ocean.
	And you get to meet, you know, you get to meet people and get to know people and just see, you know, I love roadside attractions.
	I mean, I'm a sucker for like biggest ball of twine, next exit, pull off now.
	Yes, I'm totally seeing that.
	Yeah, we had a carnival worker in and he, his great-grandfather had three legs.
	And he was in one of the original like dime show, like one of the side shows, like back in like vaudeville days almost right there.
	Frank Lentini, that's him.
	And he had three legs.
	And we had his great-grandson in.
	Yeah, no, I saw his segment.
	I watched because I was like, pretty cool.
	Yeah, yeah.
	He seemed interesting because I've always, I always was loved, I always loved carnivals when I was that whole lifestyle.
	Since I was young, when I read the book, The Boxcar Children, and I stare at those freight trains, and I just wanted so badly to hop on one and just go.
	Because, I mean, my parents, I was their girl.
	I was their daughter.
	They kept me on a pretty short leash.
	Yeah.
	So I was not allowed to roam the country.
	I wanted to get the neighborhood.
	You wanted to get off leash fully.
	I wanted to get off leash fully, exactly.
	And just see things and experience life.
	And, you know, all the oh no's and all the oh yays.
	So because it's, there's been a lot of, I mean, I've learned so much on the road.
	Like they gave me no instructions when I bought my first RV.
	They just handed me the keys, drove off the lot, and I popped all the tires within the first six months because it was stored outside.
	And it was.
	The tire.
	Yeah, they had no instructions at all.
	So then good Sam dumped me, so I didn't have that kind of roadside assistance anymore.
	And so this is when you're on the, so you start the tour.
	Yes.
	You start the tour in this.
	You started in an RV.
	So yeah, we started, we had an RV.
	And is it Acrocats?
	That's the name of the time?
	Yeah, there was the Amazing Acrocats.
	And we did our first, yeah, we did our first real show was like in 2006 at a little Place called the Reversible Eye, and that was actually one of the more successful shows.
	At that point, I was like, Okay, I'm finally doing, I've got enough put together that I can pull off a show.
	Where was this?
	It was in Chicago.
	Okay, and do you have all the cats you want?
	How many cats are in the show?
	At this point, I think there was maybe six, six, seven cats in the show.
	Okay, was there ever a cat you wanted to get, you just couldn't get the contract to write or the deal write with them or whatever?
	Like, it's uh, well, there's two, 2009 is kind of when things really shifted from, you know, because my initial goal was to get the cat's attention for film and television work.
	I guess.
	Right, you still just try.
	Yeah, you still are.
	Yeah, I'm still trying to get them film and television work, right?
	You know, like, you know, and it was working.
	I mean, it started, you know, I mean, my cat Bowie is on a Blue Buffalo Tastefuls commercial.
	He rocks it off.
	Oh, yeah, he's, it's, he's eating nails every shot.
	He's perfect.
	Looks in the camera.
	He's, he's, he's fantastic.
	I mean, he's a poster child.
	He's, he's on the stores.
	You know, when I go down in the pet store, I'm like, there he is on all the food packages.
	And, you know, I'm like, that's my boy.
	You know, it's like, yeah, he's killing it.
	He's so great.
	And he swaggers.
	He's got such a swagger.
	So, so, but initially, that's, you know, I started it to do that.
	But then 2009 is when things shifted because I wanted to add another cat to the show.
	Okay.
	And at this point, why?
	Why do you, is the show faltering or are you just not?
	Well, a lot of the cats, like, you know, they start out strong.
	They're doing eight tricks.
	And the second, you know, they're going, you know, middle of the first year, you know, between the year one and two, they're like, yeah, so we're only going to do these tricks, these two tricks.
	I'm just going to, I just want to do these two tricks.
	So they get an ego.
	So, yeah.
	So they're, so they renegotiate their contract.
	And I'm like, I'm only going to do these two tricks.
	I'm like, well, who's going to do these tricks?
	That's not my problem.
	They don't care.
	Not my problem.
	So then I'm like, well, I need to add another cat to the show.
	We need someone, you know, and I'm like, well, I really want it to be a rescue cat, but I don't want to just pick one and be, what if it's not like the right one?
	And I can't just return it because, well, this one's dumb.
	I can't do that.
	So I thought, well, why don't I foster a litter?
	And then I'll train them all, pick the best one, and then find the rest of them home.
	So that was my plan.
	And then I found a rescue that were desperate for fosters.
	So they snatched me up immediately because there was a dire need for fosters.
	And they sent me into the trenches.
	I mean, I had no knowledge, I had no idea what I was getting into.
	So they send me to a shelter that's basically an intake facility, not open to the public.
	People dump off animals there.
	They send me the kitten room and they say, so whoever you don't pick from this room today is going to be euthanized.
	12 kittens in that room.
	is a Japanese game show?
	No, it's...
	No, it's...
	It was a...
	But no, it could be a Japanese game show.
	Probably is a Japanese game show, actually.
	It was with Squid Game out there and whatnot.
	I could see that.
	That could be.
	You walk into a room.
	I walk into a room that we ever don't pick.
	We're going to euthanize.
	I'm like, what?
	So I was like, I'll take them all.
	Give them all.
	So you left out of there that day with how many people?
	With 12 kittens.
	I take them home.
	They have respiratory issues.
	You need to make that sound.
	They all have respiratory issues.
	I didn't know all my cats get sick.
	And I'm medicating like, you know, 20-some cats, right?
	I get everybody healthy.
	I train everybody up.
	And that was a really, like, you know that there's a pet overpopulation problem.
	You know that there's a problem.
	But until you're thrown into a situation like that, where you're actually told, these kittens are going to die today because there's no home for them.
	You see people dumping off their cats on a regular basis, just leaving them behind.
	You know, they're not part of the family.
	They're just left behind like garbage.
	Well, cats act like they want to leave all the time, too.
	Some of it is their fault.
	I'm not going to say that that should happen, but some of the cats are like.
	Well, that's because the person has not invested the time in the cat.
	That could very well be true.
	And that is part of what, that's where the change happened.
	So I got these cat, these 12 kittens, I've ended up finding homes for all of them.
	And I realized that, and I went in and I got more.
	I bet nobody wanted to talk to you because if you even talk to somebody, they're going like this lady's going to try to give me a cat.
	Oh, well, no, we're very picky about new adopts.
	Oh, wow.
	I mean, they have to develop an application, all the things.
	So I mean, this was just really eye-opening for me.
	And I also realized that part of the, not only were just kittens being dunked off, but people were leaving their adult cats behind.
	And that's because they felt like their cat didn't care.
	They didn't have a relationship with their cat.
	And that's why I thought, well, I can make a difference here.
	So part of, you know, part of my show is like an educational to inspire people to, you know, like, hey, not only can cats do tricks, you can teach your cat.
	Look at the relationship.
	My cats act like dogs.
	They follow me around the house.
	I mean, the little kittens that I just started training, they follow me around like puppies.
	They're like, what are we going to work?
	What are we going to work?
	Let's do something.
	Let's do something.
	And I realized that I can make a difference here.
	I can help save lives.
	So not only have I saved actual lives, but I've fostered and found homes for 340 cats and kittens since that 2009.
	And I, you know, through my show, I foster a bunch, take them on the road with me, teach them tricks, put them in the show, and then find homes for them.
	Right after the show, people can't even adopt them.
	Well, because we stay in a place for a while.
	They have to fill out.
	They fill out the application.
	We check the references.
	And if they get approved, they get the training kit.
	All the kittens are trained to go to a carrier at the sound of a whistle.
	They're all comfortable with traveling in a car, which is a big thing.
	And they're all trained to do a parlor trick.
	So like a high five, a sit pretty, a spin, maybe even playing the piano.
	And who's going to leave a cat behind that high fives you when you come in from work that day and they give you a high five after your bad day?
	You're not going to leave that cat behind.
	So my admission is like no cat gets left behind when disaster strikes or you move.
	That cat's part of your family.
	And because I've given the cat a good start by training them to do the basics and they're all clicker trained.
	They all do.
	It's like the Marines almost.
	Yeah, no cat left behind.
	Super feline.
	Yes.
	You know, this cat is going to be a permanent part of your life.
	I've already pre-trained it.
	it already knows yeah it already knows that you know all you have to do is give him the cue and he's going to sit pretty for you and here's here's the whistle to call him to for for mealtime so that's part of the so part of the show also is that not only are the cats performing but there's this underbelly there's this positive underbelly of um you shelling out cats to people and getting cats in the homes yeah okay well good homes good homes good homes we don't just like hand them out on the corner yeah because i mean yeah i mean yeah that's the thing about a cat
	people are always like dude do you want a cat and it'd be like just oh just if you leave your door open like a cat will come in that's that was always the thing about cats like you don't like one of my friends was like dude i think i'm gonna buy this cat i'm like dude you don't buy a cat you just just be somewhere and just get a cat yeah they choose you they'll appear in your life like they will like just you know they let you know you know like little whispers from god or whatever yeah just you know i mean we've had so
	many instances of you know like on milwaukee avenue in chicago one day a bus pulls up door opens a cat comes out a little kitten comes out steps out of the bus and walks up to our front door just like hey i heard this is a place to go i need to be i need to be here so and i'm like what just happened here this bus door just opened this kitten came out and they're sitting at my front door i mean i witnessed it happen you know it's just a lot of cats have that fast pass
	or whatever i know um with the tour what's what was one of the tougher times that you had you ever have a time where just the show barely got off the ground or it just didn't something just happened well i mean there's been so many i mean especially with the bus we had this texas fiasco where we finally got back on the road and we had that fan clutch issue the the uh bus broke down they some a couple guys tried to fix it they made it worse we were stuck in a in a bar
	off in the middle of nowhere for like three days we had to cancel our show in dallas and i've i've probably canceled maybe a half dozen shows in my lifetime like i am one of those the show must go on if there's a way to get there i will get there and do the show i mean even when i was going through cancer treatment had a broken foot at the same time i was still doing the show you know the show must go on people are excited about these cats you know they're like can't wait to see the cats again like we have repeat people people that see the show every time we come to town oh
	cat people are absolutely insane they have their favorite cats they have all my my cats have their own merch and so you know people i don't want to let down the people that are so excited about the cats and and you know but we were there we were grounded we were not able to get you know to to that destination so we finally you know we end up getting towed to a proper repair place and it doesn't get fixed in time so we're having to rent u-hauls and live in the theater during the show during the
	show run so then we get to and this was like march a couple years ago in texas and when they had that freak snowstorm in texas so so we the show was canceled then it wasn't then it was canceled then it wasn't because of the snowstorm so we're living in the venue you know with everything set up ready to go in case we can do the show and then the bus that was supposed to be ready for houston the broke down 20 minutes out of the shop so we did not you know we didn't have the bus
	yet again so we had to get another u-haul get transfer all the the cats and get a you know get a rental car get all the cats to the next venue and luckily the venues were all were amazing so they let us move in and sleep in the venue and we were sleeping on couches you know we got some air mattresses and also and when you go on tour how many people are on the tour bus with you or on the rv uh well there's uh myself and then i usually have two at least two assistants and one point we had a driver that's traveled with us but
	post-covid drivers are really hard to come by you just you know there's a shortage of drivers and they um they generally want an obscene amount of money and they want a hotel room that's crazy expensive like we can't afford that i i want to keep the ticket prices somewhat reasonable i mean we've had to raise the prices pretty you know intensely as it is but we always try to keep a level of seats that are affordable because you know between the fuel and
	oh it's no and i mean so expensive and i've learned how to drive the bus since because i'm like i cannot be at the mercy of drivers anymore like so did you have to get a commercial driver lessons or no well it's it's a because it's a private owned coach i i own it and and and i've just because i've been driving big vehicles i started out with the ambulance and then it was a 23 foot rv then a 27 foot rv then it was a 35 foot bus and now it's a 45 foot bus so i've just you're driving an actual tour bus yeah i'm driving an actual tour bus wow and
	full of cats full of cats and assistants yeah so and then we hire someone to drive the longer like if it's a long drive because it's it's just tough on me to do yeah it's a lot to drive so we'll hire someone to do the long drive and then i'll i'll drive like the short drives like when we go to the east coast i'll drive to bottom from boston to portland and then we're going to stay in portland for almost a month oh good so so we get to you know settle in a campground and go back and forth with to the venue and be fun and yeah so i mean i just i love that part of it where you get to see you
	know you know i get to see people i haven't seen you know in a couple years yeah you know or you know we go like some places we go every year we go to texas every year new orleans every year have you ever had issues with performers like you have you ever had an issue like a performer didn't make it to the show or like what's that kind of like oh i had last the last time we were in portland my assistant that was supposed to fly in her daughter got covet so she got covid and then the assistant that was with me she got covid so
	i had to do the entire show myself uh and even our merch person who usually ran the merch also got covid so luckily i had a mega fan and the sound guy who had been helping us with the show forever uh he you know they they chipped in and you know, they helped me, you know, I'd box the cats, they'd help, you know, reset the stage, take the cats in.
	I would run in, I would like have like kind of half makeup on.
	I set the merch thing up, and I'd, you know, start the selling of the merch, and I'd instruct whoever volunteer was there, okay, this is what you need to do.
	And then I would go back out and get dressed for the show, and then I'd run back out on stage, and I'd do the opening announcements, right?
	And then I'd sell the cat ears because we walk around with the tray, cat ears, get your cat ears, cat ears, get your cat ears.
	So then I'd sell the cat ears, do the opening announcement, and then, you know, take the cat ears back.
	And then I had a friend that was kind of with me who she didn't, she was just there as like more of a friend.
	She didn't really know how the show went.
	She hadn't done any rehearsals.
	So basically she was kind of at least another body on stage.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, it was just pretty much me up there, you know, like, okay, let this cat out now, let this cat out now, and grabbing the props when I need them and explaining to the audience, like, it's just me up here.
	And, you know, I've never done this part before.
	So I'm like, I'm looking at this long script.
	I'm going, I'm not going to say all that.
	I'm just going to wing it.
	So this is a situation.
	So I don't know what's going to happen, but we're just going to, you know, enjoy the cats.
	And I had to, and I learned, I mean, I learned a lot after that experience.
	I changed a lot of our, you know, the way we sell merch.
	I was like, this is insane.
	So it's like, we're going to make part of this self-serve and, you know, just only the, you know, important things do people have to, you know, dig for to give to the, so, you know, I just, I learned how, learned where some of the, where improvements needed to be made.
	Yeah, sometimes it's certain things force you in a certain moment, and then that's where you learn the most, which is kind of wild.
	Yeah.
	And the show, but the show must, they all, the show must go on.
	I am one of those, like literally, the show must go on.
	You don't just decide, oh, you know, I'm not, I'm not feeling it today.
	Or, I mean, I've done like I've had full-on sick where I could have to talk in a whisper.
	You know, like I'm doing, I've got tea on stage, whispering into the microphone because I can barely, because I barely have a voice, but I'm still doing the best I can and then immediately going and sleeping and resting.
	It's a lot.
	Oh, yeah, managing yourself and getting all that kind of stuff done is a lot.
	And then having to drive the bus too, you know, I can't even imagine.
	And still train the cats and raise the babies, the kittens.
	You know, we have portable incubators.
	So, you know, there's bottle, but a lot of times we have bottle babies.
	And have you ever gotten stopped by the police and they're like, what's going on here?
	Very rarely.
	I think that animals bring out the best in people for the most part.
	So we've run into so many great people out on the road that have been so helpful and have come to our rescue.
	Well, like, has there ever been a perform, like a cat that had it all, like a cat that kind of had it all and then just for some reason things just kind of fell apart?
	Like the kind of like the crisp brown of like cats kind of?
	Well, they I think we've only had one cat that we were after like a year of trying.
	I was like, this cat is just not is not going to be acrocat material.
	So we retire, you know, we moved him to another, because I also still train, you know, cats and other animals for film and television.
	So I'm like, well, this guy, he's got, he's got model qualities.
	He's a Siamese.
	He's got the Siamese coloring.
	So he could get commercial work.
	And so he was transferred to another department.
	That's fair then.
	But a lot of the cats, when they get to that, they decide like, okay, I'm not going to do this.
	I'm not going to do that.
	Or when they get older and if they get joint pain.
	Oh, yeah.
	And so then I scale back on the tricks that I have them do because I certainly don't want them to experience pain.
	Of course not.
	Was there ever a trick that you tried to get cats to do and finally you decided to be like, we can't make this trick work?
	There's been some that I've tried because there's some Russian cat circuses out there that they're different kind of, I mean, they're sharp.
	Like, I mean, my cats come out and stretch and groom.
	It's like hiring family.
	They're not professional.
	But, you know, I've seen some pretty impressive things with these Russian cat circuses where they really high up in the air.
	They do this army crawl.
	And at one point, I was like, I really want to teach this army crawl.
	But then I looked at it and I was like, how can that possibly be comfortable for the cat?
	It just doesn't seem like it's, you know, I ended up abandoning attempting that trick because I looked at it and I thought, it doesn't seem right.
	It's not a natural skill at all.
	Like balancing on a ball, on a barrel, climbing a rope, jumping down to my back.
	I mean, those are all cat agility type things.
	They got great balance.
	You know, none of the props are super high up with, you know, Asti, the one that jumps to my back.
	I mean, that's an eight foot high pole.
	I mean, and she cheats.
	She crawls down two, three feet and then jumps to my back.
	I didn't even know until I saw a video clip that she's been cheating the whole time.
	She's not even doing the true jump.
	Like Leah Thomas or whatever.
	Yeah.
	I'm like, have you seen these Russian cats jumping 20 feet up in the air down to a pillow?
	Well, Russia.
	Yeah.
	Look, it's the same as like when those Russian hamsters came in.
	It kind of changed the game of hamster sales in our area.
	I remember that.
	The Russians are very severe about the dictatorship over animals.
	Oh, yeah.
	It's a different energy.
	Has there ever been a time where like you come back at halftime and the cats are all like just bummed out or they're smoking or whatever?
	They're just like.
	That's catnip.
	They get into the catnip.
	They get over to that merch table and roll around the catnip.
	I'm just like, oh, no.
	Will they?
	Oh, and they'll go into the audience.
	And if somebody's bought a catnip toy, they'll dig it right out of the purse.
	They'll just take it.
	Just take it.
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, and they'll drink their beer.
	I mean, like, Jax loves beer.
	So, I mean, everybody's like, hold on to your drinks.
	Do not give this cat beer.
	She loves beer.
	Don't let her drink the beer.
	Yeah.
	She's not be a single mother, too.
	Yeah, just, you know, just, because the cats are always, they're opportunists.
	You know, they're, they're going to do, you know, they're going to be like, I'm just going to go catnip out there.
	See ya.
	You know, and I'm left like, what am I supposed to do here?
	Like with the, because Albacore, just like we're supposed to be the star, he's supposed to have this moment where we do a solo in the middle of the show.
	Of course.
	And it's his highlight.
	And he's just, he's like, they got popcorn out there and PBR.
	I'm just going to go.
	And I'm like, what do you mean you're going to go?
	And he's like, yeah, I'm just going to go.
	And I'm like, yeah, but this is your moment.
	He's like, yeah, I'm just going to go.
	And I'm standing there.
	The music is starting.
	I've got, I don't have my solo cat.
	He's just gone to the bar to get a PBR and some popcorn.
	And I'm like, send out, take a seat.
	So Dixie comes out and does all the tricks just because she had been doing them.
	She was just bam, bam, bam, did the tricks better than he did.
	So she saved the day.
	So she saved the day.
	And he comes racing up on stage to try to take over because, hey, no, I don't want this other cat doing my job.
	And he's just failing because Dixie's just leaping higher and faster and doing like he's like three beats behind everything.
	So at that point, that's when that portion of the show turned into a competition.
	So I had to change that portion because of that incident.
	So I'm all constantly having to change and evolve based on, like we had a cat that got sick, you know, and then something was off.
	Like the first show we did, I was like, something's wrong with Bowie.
	So I, you know, I whispered to my, you know, like, skip, skip this, skip this trick, skip that trick.
	So then Bowie went to the vet and I had to like rearrange the show and bring out, you know, this cat to cover for this trick for Bowie.
	And, you know, Asti, you're going to be drumming, you know, for both shows.
	And, you know, Austie's the one that's like, what?
	You know, the one that's always like, she's like, always, what do you got?
	When I get, you know, she has to climb up the pole.
	Yeah, let me see what you got here.
	Yeah, the eight-foot pole and leap to my shoulder where she walks three feet down and then leaps to it.
	She's like, she literally is like, what do you got?
	If I don't have tuna or salmon and a good piece, like she'll be like, not doing it.
	So I have to go back and get something better and go, how about now?
	And then she'll do it.
	Yeah.
	Did you ever have any issues where the show couldn't go on or like just issues with some of your performers that made it tough?
	Like what has been some of that?
	Well, we had an incident where the star, the original Tuna, disappeared three hours before the show.
	The driver had left a little window open and Tuna was nowhere to be found.
	I mean, I had posters up in 10 minutes.
	I mean, I'm walking up and down the street calling, you know, whistling, all the things, you know, like, and, you know, Tuna's like nowhere to be found.
	Now it's two hours before showtime.
	Now it's an hour before showtime.
	You know, I'm like, what am I going to do?
	She's the star of my show.
	Like, she's like, this is like Tuna.
	You can't, I mean, she, like any of the other cats, I can cover for, but I mean, I have to have tuna.
	And, and then I noticed that there's this white cat right next door to the venue we're performing at, and he's behind this wrought iron fence.
	And how now, and I was like, tuna?
	You know, and the cat just looks at me like, I don't know who you're talking.
	I don't know any tuna.
	And I was like, and then I asked the guy, I go, is this your cat?
	He goes, no.
	And I'm like, tuna?
	And still like nothing.
	Right.
	So then I went and I got the bell and I put the bell right inside the fence and rang it.
	And which, of course, Tuna couldn't resist.
	That was like, oh, that's my trick.
	It just, you know, can't help it.
	Like, there's one cat that if I hit a piano note, she comes running.
	So I hit that bell and the cat that kept saying, no, I'm not tuna came right over and rang the bell.
	And I was like, you've been here this whole time.
	You've seen me running up and down the street, panicking, and you're just sitting here acting like you're this guy's pet when we have a show in like an hour now.
	And you've just been watching me panic.
	And you've been here this whole time.
	And she's like, yeah, I mean, didn't care.
	Like, yeah, whatever.
	I'll do, yeah.
	Actors are so hard to deal with.
	Oh, yeah.
	The cat.
	I mean, it's that's most of what I've heard, you know?
	Yeah.
	I mean, that's a lot of what I heard.
	Do the cats do like a halftime at the show or anything?
	Or is there like a little break?
	You guys all go back in the locker room or anything like that?
	Or it's just one full, the show is a, well, it's like it's like an hour and a half show.
	Okay.
	And then we do a meet and greet.
	Okay.
	So it's expanded over the years.
	Now it's a nine.
	We now have a nine-piece band.
	It started out as a three-piece band.
	And then we, you know, we added cowbell and then we added chimes and we added a chicken on cymbal and tambourine.
	And then we added a horn section.
	So now we have trumpet, saxophone, and clarinet.
	Oh, it's beautiful.
	So we have this nine-piece band.
	Of course, you got to have.
	Yeah, well, people are more demanding now, too.
	People want to see it all.
	And it's so much fun.
	I mean, I just love the whole band playing together.
	Oh, it's beautiful.
	And then we do the meet and greet.
	So people can come up and depending on the size of the venue, if it's up to 150 people can come up and do the meet and greet where they see the cats up close.
	They can take photos with the band.
	And also that way they can see the, because the cats could leave.
	Literally, if they're not comfortable or they're freaked out, they could just go.
	I mean, it's a big theater.
	There's a cat.
	Yeah, they could go in their carrier.
	They could hide.
	They could go back to outer space also.
	The fact that they're sitting there posing for a picture and just comfortable with the stampede of people coming up to get photos with them shows people also that this is a whole new level of cat.
	And if she can do it, and because my cats do fail, I mean, they come out and they groom.
	Yeah, have you ever had a cat's fight on stage?
	After the show, there's been some issues where there's some animosity that I have to keep certain cats separate for sure.
	It's like strippers.
	But yeah, there's been some moments where I have to keep certain ones away.
	And do you ever had a cat jump into the crowd and go after somebody or anything?
	Yeah, luckily it was after the show.
	So there was a little incident afterwards and we got them separated.
	But if we see the one cat, everybody knows who doesn't get along with somebody.
	So now we have spotters in the audience that it's like, you know, most of the cats are allowed to go out and wander and do their thing.
	But if this cat leaves, it's because he's, you know, yeah, he wants to start something.
	So bring, you know, make sure this cat comes back.
	But the others, they're free to wander.
	And, you know, like I said, it kind of keeps it fun because I never know what they're going to do.
	I'm constantly having to shift things around and just make it work.
	Work on the fly.
	Yeah.
	Are people allowed to bring cats to the show?
	We prefer that they don't.
	I mean, we've had somebody occasionally sneak one in, but they prefer, you know, and sometimes the service dogs that have to be admitted, you know, they have to be at least four rows back so that they don't upset the cats.
	They might upset the show, yeah.
	Yeah.
	But yeah, that's fair.
	Yeah.
	Is there, after the show, you ever celebrate everything, give the cats a little bit of champagne or anything to kind of enjoy the evening kind of?
	Oh, I mean, well, you know, the catnip parties for sure.
	They get their, you know, catnip parties and they get the leftover snacks.
	I mean, we cook fresh chicken, salmon, tuna, turkey, chicken liver.
	Like, they eat better than we do.
	Like, I'm eating Pringles out of a can.
	Yeah, that's a name McCormick and Schmick's.
	And they're dining on fresh sushi, like sushi grade tuna that's lightly seared on both sides, right in the middle.
	That's how they like it.
	And I'm like eating Pringles.
	I'm like, oh man, this smells so good.
	Yeah.
	It's baffling to me.
	Is there a lot of competition in the market?
	I've seen like there's like Meowga Death.
	I'm trying to think of some of the or like Scratchbox 20 I've seen.
	There's like some different band, like cat bands that I've seen online.
	But is there a lot of competition in the market?
	I mean, you mentioned there's some Russian shows.
	Yeah, I'm really like the only touring act of this nature that's this and you know full on.
	I mean, there's, there's Gregory Popovich, who's based out of Vegas, and he does tour around like, I think, once a year or so.
	He hits in various places.
	So he's kind of the only cat, you know, like regularly touring show.
	And then there is some of the cats.
	And that's a cat show also?
	It's cats, dogs, birds, and some other things.
	Okay, so it's multi-animals.
	Yeah, multi-animals.
	And so he's pretty well known for his cats.
	And he started it in Branson and then got that Vegas job.
	So, you know, he's definitely well known for the cats.
	And then there's the, I think there's some Russian, two women that do like a cat act.
	You know, I think maybe they have like five cats or such.
	And they do a lot of the, they do some of the venues that I can't because my cats are, they're not going to want, you know, if I'm in a hall where there's other things like booths and people always want me to come to these expos and whatnot, I'm like, you guys have like booths and serving food.
	And my cats, yeah, my cats are like, gonna be like, I'm just gonna, there's hot dogs over there.
	I'm just gonna go get a hot dog and why would I see you?
	So, but, you know, but there's, yeah, but there's definitely a couple, their cats are a lot more like precise because the relationship, they have more of a professional.
	Bella Caroly type of energy.
	Yeah, it's just, you know, they, they go, they go to their carrier, they come out, they work, they go to their carrier.
	They're not hanging out and watching television at night with the animals.
	Right.
	It's a very, it's almost like being like Russian almost.
	Yeah.
	Very Russian people.
	You know, in Russia, some of the children even have dolls that are made out of stone, and you would see kids with like a three or four pound doll.
	Like that's crazy.
	But it also at the same, it's like it teaches you that there's a weight of taking care of someone.
	So it's, it's just, I mean, I had to make a choice at one point.
	Either I can have a slick show or I can enjoy being with the animals.
	Right.
	And I, and I, I'm happy with the choice that I made because people seem to really love the fact that those cats sometimes do it and sometimes don't.
	And it actually is more encouraging because we sell training kits after the show so people can train their cats.
	Oh, people can do it at home.
	Yeah.
	So they're inspired to go home and train their own cats.
	I love that.
	And it has made such a difference.
	Yeah, that people, I'll get letters from people and videos.
	Look what I trained my cat to do.
	And seeing your show changed my life.
	And this relationship that I have with this cat has completely changed.
	And the behavioral problems have stopped because I started paying attention and training my cat.
	So there's so many benefits.
	There's health benefits.
	Yeah, because a lot of people just think cats are fucking crazy.
	Yeah, no.
	They're just, they have all this energy.
	And if you're keeping them inside, because you need to, because it's dangerous out there, you need to give them something to do with their brain.
	Because some people say they're even from outer space.
	Do you ever feel anything like that?
	No, I mean, I think that they're just very independent, intelligent, I mean, smarter than dogs in a way, because dogs are just like, oh, I'll do whatever.
	Where cats are grudge holders and very like, no, you know, stubborn.
	And, you know, you really have to work within, you know, within the cats.
	You have to make it fun for the cat, for sure.
	You have to find out what the cat likes to do.
	I mean, I spent a lot of time just hanging out with the cats, watching them, especially like the group of kittens we have.
	You know, they're all running around.
	I'm seeing who's climbing, who's perching, who's using their paw.
	Like, what is this cat?
	What, you know, what can this cat do?
	What should I focus on?
	So just by hanging out with the cats and watching what they do, that's how I'm inspired by, to come up with a trick to coordinate what they can do.
	Wow.
	If you had to pick like a Mount Rushmore of like your best performing cats and you had to put four of them on it, obviously tuna, the original tuna's on there.
	Who else is on there?
	Boy, the I mean, Austi is very solid, but slow.
	Slowly, I mean, just hysterically solid, slow.
	Bowie is pretty good.
	Albacore Tuna is solid, but it's kind of riding the coattails of you know like the original tuna like he doesn't really feel like he has to prove himself you know he's like i'll do the minimum and where tuna had a really original tuna had a really great work ethic that's what's nice yeah having that is very nice and uh and then i have um newt is my youngest and she is a mat just crazy i mean i uh she i was quarantined with i had covet for the first time ever i was in
	new orleans it was just her and i and i had all i had this time so i actually was able to do shaping yeah so a lot of times what because i'm training fast and shaping is what shaping is when you just sit with clicker and treats and you wait for the cat to do something and then the cat has to figure out what it is you want to do without any clue from teach themselves yes that's really the best way yeah so then they're like oh i heard the click so okay what you know like you just see the light come on in their eyes once
	they you know that that light bulb moment where they get it they're like oh i think i get it i thought you know because at first they're just like what is it that you want you know like i just don't get it and then they hear the click and they're like okay something to do with the paw right something to do with this paw something to do with this keyboard oh i think it's the keyboard like oh okay it's and you know you just sit and you just wait and they're playing damn stairway and then yeah you're just yeah it's and then when you see that light come on and and
	they're just they get it i mean so they basically they learn to learn and then they get creative too and they'll they'll come up with their own tricks or you know you'll start training them to do one thing and they'll be like no i want to do this instead and i i love that about them the creativity of that that cats have of it the fact and and the fact that they're negotiators too because i mean once i'm on stage i'm i'm like in front of an audience i can't i can't like reset and be like okay we're gonna redo this here and i'm not gonna move on with the show until you get this right
	i have to just go with the flow and they know that i you know they i'm a little stuck so they'll be like i'm not gonna do this but i'll do this instead oh you know and i'm like that's only the most cat thing i've heard all day yeah i'll just yeah i'll do this instead yeah but i do this instead we had a guy we had a corner on he said that cats would eat people if they passed away have you ever heard that well i totally believe it i mean they said yeah this guy said a cat could even eat your face within like 30 something hours or
	something if they wanted to oh i mean i respect that about cats a dog will die right along beside you a cat's gonna be like is she taking her last breath maybe i'll start early you know you know but i respect that i mean i i respect that cats are grudge holders too like they you do something that that they don't like you know like they like write it in their little book and like i'm gonna remember this that she just did this and uh so yeah that's and i i really do respect that about cats because they are not as forgiving which is
	why you know you have to really you know make it you know it's can never be forced it's got to be fun you know for the cat and and like if the cats right if they're going to perform they really are they mean it yeah yeah because you're not going to get anything for free out of a cat yeah exactly and and you know but if it's if it's a high you know reward like if it's a salmon i mean it's like okay i'm gonna drum a little bit more for the salmon than i will for the chicken you know with the youngsters the kittens are like chicken that's
	great we'll do everything they don't know yeah they don't know but the seasoned ones they're like yeah let's see what you got here that chicken that salmon looks a little dry you got anything better wow just yeah so and i've had the cats that same cat go up that pole four times in a show and just wait up there and i have to stop the show of you know well because i'm at this part of the show and then oxy's back up on that pole because she left instead of going back to her carrier went back up the pole because she liked the particular cooking that day the cooking was good that day so
	she's like i want more so now the show's changed a little we're gonna keep we're gonna do maybe some different things that we might not have done yes and i gotta back go back over there get assume the position where i'm like leaning over she does the jump to my back and then sometimes leaves again yeah and then ends up back on that pole and people are like pointing and i'm like oh again so a lot of it's just watching you work with cats it's like just the reality is that it's almost impossible what we're going to do our best yeah yeah i'm just standing there like my you know my
	arm flung out at this cat grooming and because it especially because i mean i had probably one of the worst experiences i ever did early on in my career i i got a week-long gig in branson and because popovich abandoned branson for this for the for the gig in uh vegas so they had no cat act and they had billboards people were traveling miles to see the you know his his cats and so they hired this guy to put together another act to take
	the place of this so he he hired a dog act um a bird act and then a cat act and it was he had so a russian some a couple russian people coming in with cats but he had one week where he didn't they weren't available so he he brought me in on the advice of somebody who had never seen my show and you know people are expecting this you know these big opportunity because you're coming into branson yeah full theater i mean tuna ran off stage the very first rehearsal i'm oh it was just i
	mean the you know the the the guy he was like listen you know your act is just i'm not you're supposed to be the headliner but you can't be so i'm gonna have to bury you in the middle and and then in the meantime you know the dog people hated us because we weren't organized the bird people hated us because the cats wanted to eat the birds yeah so and i'm just mortified because the cats aren't doing anything and that and the cats are super sensitive so they're feeling the hate from the audience right you know because they're people are expecting awesome cats and they're getting samantha's not so
	amazing acrocats and you know and i i mean i just wanted to slither out of town in the middle of the night not even collect my fee and go back to college on the show early well no i was i fulfilled my week and during that time period the guy that that hired me he gave me all sorts of tips and got help got got me organized and showed me how to play off you know like when you know when a cat did something you just commit to it like look at that the cat's doing nothing but isn't that great you know and and
	just really exaggerate the moves you know you know, not do no teapot arms.
	You had to just, you know, bring that excitement, even though the cat isn't doing anything, you just play it off as that's what it's supposed to do.
	Look at this amazing cat, look at that.
	Yeah, go, you know, so we just did the best we could.
	And then, you know, it was a very long, quiet drive home of like, do I should I even continue this hot mess?
	Because I was an epic fail, epic fail.
	Until, you know, I thought that was the worst until I bombed on Colbert.
	Oh, yeah, I saw that.
	Oh, that was the worst.
	Oh, and as soon as, and Nui, as soon as they opened up the carrier, Nui was like, didn't come out to skateboard.
	And I was like, oh, and she's like, what'd you think was going to happen?
	And I was like, you cherks, you know, this is our big opportunity for us.
	We're starting our Kickstarter campaign.
	And you guys are going to do this now, really?
	And they're like, oh, yeah, they got me good on that.
	I was just like, but luckily, he was a good sport about it.
	You guys saw he came out and kind of walked on the ball like that.
	He had cat ears on.
	He kept those cat ears.
	He put them on occasionally.
	Oh, that's cool.
	He was really great.
	That was awesome.
	Yeah.
	I mean, but I only like four tricks out of 10 happened.
	Do you think you really have any control over the cats?
	Do you think?
	It's, I mean, a little bit, but it's really, and I think what went wrong there is that there were too, it's because they pick up on nervous energy.
	So if I'm nervous, they're nervous.
	And then I had all these extra assistants that were like, we want to be on the show.
	So we had too many people involved, too much energy, and they felt it.
	And they felt all that nervous energy.
	So they were like, oh, we can't, we're not going to do it.
	We just can't do this.
	So just like we really can't do when people want to hire us for an event and it's a mixed bag of people, like some are cat lovers, some aren't.
	Like my cats feel that energy.
	They're like, we don't feel the love.
	So that's why we do the, we rent out a theater.
	You know, we're, we're not really for hire.
	Right.
	It's more we want cat lovers to come.
	Yeah.
	So it's a self-produced show.
	So I rent out the theater.
	We do the advertising.
	We do marketing.
	We do, you know, do everything from the beginning to the end.
	And, you know, it's hard to find venues that'll even let, you know, that'll let us.
	Oh, for sure.
	I mean, well, it's hard to find humans that will believe in what you're doing.
	I mean, I think it's a lot of people think it's absolutely insane to drive around in a van with 11 cats or something.
	They think it's insane.
	Yeah.
	It's something that you see of like a hoarder or somebody that's a some freelance Noah's Archean type of human, you know, but I think when you see that you love it so much and that your goal or a lot of your goal is something to get these cats into like big time programming and get them fun opportunities if they want, if they want it.
	And also to kind of meet the cats where they are.
	It's like if they're not, if some of them don't have it, they don't have it.
	You don't have to tell them that really.
	You just work with where they are willing to work.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Work within their parameters.
	And then, you know, inspiring people to train their own cats.
	And I know I've had, I've saved, like, I've saved some of my own cats' lives just because of the training routine.
	Like, you know, like I would have band practice.
	Anytime I cooked, because the band is set up in the kitchen, anybody, you know, the band comes running and they take their place on their instruments and they start playing because they want treats.
	You know, they don't want to.
	What song will they play?
	It's all freeform jazz.
	It's like their own music.
	So it's, it's, you know, not all of it, not, not a lot of them are big hits, I would say.
	But it's their own.
	I used to live in Alphabet City in New York for a little bit and you would hear a lot of some of that at certain nights or whatever.
	But yeah, with the one cat, like my guitar player, she was solid, my best guitar player ever.
	She didn't show up for band practice.
	Like she always showed up for band practice.
	And I found, I went looking for her, and she was like sitting in front of the fireplace.
	And I even offered her a freebie, like, here, how about take this?
	And she was like not interested.
	And I was like, something's wrong with Pinky.
	So I took her to the vet and she had a fever.
	And I might not have noticed anything was wrong for several days to the point where it was too late.
	But because I had a routine established and because I have a routine established with these cats, you know, even blowing the whistle for feeding time, you can tell within five minutes if something's wrong with somebody.
	They might have a limp.
	They might be favoring one side of their mouth when they chew.
	You know, like something's wrong.
	You know, I can tell just because I've, you know, established a routine.
	And it doesn't, you know, you don't have to put together a huge act like I have.
	You can just one simple trick.
	You know, even just the whistle to the carrier will give you all the information you need to know whether or not your cat needs to go to the vet.
	And now you can take your cat to the vet because it's already oriented to a carrier because when we do fostering and we adopt them out, they're already all used to traveling.
	Do you feel like they are the performers or that you are the performer?
	I think it's a combination.
	We're both, we play off each other.
	So whatever, you know, whatever is happening with them and, you know, will, you know, causes my, you know, so it's, it's, it's both.
	So we're both performers, but I definitely, the improv thing, it's, I mean, I have to be like, just be on and also, but not nervous either.
	So I have to be like, okay, gonna be fine.
	You know, I always tell people, especially new people that are, you know, get a little stage fright that, and I also suffer from stage fright, which really sucks to suffer from stage fright.
	Yeah.
	So I'm like, oh.
	It's very normal.
	You know, I had to kind of shove myself out there because there's the part of me that there's there's the there's the nurturer, the bottle raised, you know, the shy girl, because I mean, I was the shy outcast growing up.
	So there's still that shy little outcast in me that's taking, that's the nurturer.
	But then there's, you know, Samantha, the show person, right?
	And I don't even know where she is.
	She's probably drinking at the bar.
	I don't know.
	But I'm like, where is she?
	Is she going to show up?
	Oh, I have to go out there.
	I don't even know if she's going to show up.
	And then I get out there and then, bam, the cats start and then there's that part of my personality that can that can pull it off.
	And I'm like, oh, thank God you showed up.
	I didn't know where you were.
	She's like, I was at the bar.
	You know, I'd show up.
	Will you have a cocktail before you go on stage usually?
	Yeah, I'll have a little bit of, I'll have a glass of wine before I get it.
	You've got to have fun, yeah, yeah.
	Well, it's just mainly to just, you know, so I'm relaxed.
	And then the cat, you know, so the cats are relaxed.
	Oh, yeah.
	There's videos of cats even drinking wine, but do cats care if you use profanity or drink around them?
	No, they, they, I mean, they use profanity and, you know, in their own little world, they, they drink and smoke and do all the things.
	I mean, Asti's always seems as high as a kite on weed, you know, like a puff of smoke comes out of her carrier.
	You know, we all kind of see it because, you know, just like Albacor with the popcorn and the PBR, of course, he was not really holding a PBR and chugging it and popcorn and his other, I mean, they don't have opposable thumbs.
	They can't really do that.
	But, you know, I painted a picture and we all saw that.
	Like we all saw him walking down the aisle with popcorn and a PBR because he's got terrible taste and beard.
	You know, we all knew that he would chug that PBR, you know, before coming up on stage to try to take back what Dixie stole.
	And, you know, everybody that's on the road, because we're in this 45-foot by 8 by 5-foot space with these cats and we're days on end, you know, just us, it's kind of like, you know, Tom Hankson Castaway with Wilson.
	You know, we have whole backstories and, you know, where the cats, we know what school they went to, what they majored in, what their job was.
	You know, they all worked at the mall at one point.
	No, I think it's fascinating.
	It's important.
	And it's important to build a world of for whatever your world is that you live in.
	You know, it's important to add characteristics to things and to make them bring them more alive.
	You know, I think that's really interesting.
	And personalize them because, you know, we do a calendar every year with their likes and dislikes and their fun facts.
	And is there ever any sex between the animals or do you ever engage?
	Do you ever see any stuff like that?
	I mean, all of our cats are spaded neutered because it would be really irresponsible, especially once I got involved in rescue to spade you.
	Did they decapitate the wing?
	No, it's the testicles.
	Oh, they take the testicles.
	Yeah, the testicles.
	It's a less invasive surgery than the spay.
	The spay they actually have to cut, you know, like open.
	Yeah, it's, but it's, it's so important.
	There's so many, you know, and we lost so much ground with COVID, you know, as far as the TNR programs.
	Because I work, I have a lot of friends that are involved with TNR, which is really, you know, trap new to return.
	So, you know, if you want to have an interesting guest on, this guy, Sterling, the Trap King, he does TNR.
	And, I mean, they go out there, they set these traps because there's cats that are not going to be indoor cats.
	They've been living outside.
	They're street cats, but they're also reproducing.
	And then hundreds of the cats and it's just on and on.
	And so something has to be done.
	So guys like, you know, Sterling comes in.
	They come in with traps.
	They get permission from the complex or the owner.
	And they come in, they set the traps up.
	And they can't just leave.
	They can't just set the trap and leave.
	They have to, because otherwise when the cat gets trapped, if the sun, inclement weather, they got to mill around and wait to see, to catch this cat.
	And then they have to get it over to the place that's going to do the surgery.
	It's six in the morning.
	I mean, it's a huge dedication.
	Trat Newton Return.
	I'm going to look into that.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Have you ever had PETA come out and say anything about your show?
	Have you ever had any issues like that or no?
	We had one person come in California, one picketer.
	And then they left two hours before the show even started.
	And anytime somebody has attacked me on social media, I have like a thousand people that come back with, have you ever seen her show?
	If you saw her show, you would see that these cats are her family, that they're loved, that they are not abused, they're not being forced, that they literally are doing what they want to do.
	They're free to leave.
	I mean, their carriers are open.
	There's a whole theater for them to explore.
	Some of them do.
	Sometimes people will start laughing.
	I'm like, what's going on?
	They've gone up to the second level and they're doing stuff off with the props up there and just exploring.
	I'm like, there's a show.
	Yeah, there's a show going on.
	Guys, there's a show going on.
	I was like, yeah, but there's a piano up here.
	You know, there's a piano up here?
	And I'm like, yeah, I saw the piano earlier, but we're doing a show right now.
	And I mean, so I'll have these conversations with the cats.
	And most of the time, the audience doesn't hear.
	But every once in a while, they'll hear my part of it where I'll just have just, I'll just be like, I'm just, you know, like, I am for this stops now because it was like Albacore.
	We have been practicing his opening thing.
	He comes out, he turns on a light.
	That starts the show.
	We rehearsed it.
	We did it every day for weeks.
	He knows what to do.
	Showtime comes along and he's like, I just, and I, and so I'd have to turn it on for him.
	And then the day came, he comes out and he's just like, and I'm like, oh, no, you don't.
	I've enough.
	You know how to do this.
	You have been doing this trick for weeks on end.
	You know what to do.
	And he's like, what are you doing?
	You know, of course, they don't hear that part.
	You know, he's like, what are you doing?
	I go, he's like, you're embarrassing me.
	Oh, I'm embarrassing you.
	You're the one embarrassing me.
	I'm the one looking like a crazy person talking to herself up here when you know how very well how to turn on this light.
	And he's like, okay, all right, fine.
	Just stop.
	I'll do, I'll do it.
	So he went and he turned on the light.
	And after that, we never, we didn't have a problem.
	He consistently, you know, we had that little moment of like, okay, we're going to talk about this right now.
	You're going to, you, you know how to do this.
	You're going to do it.
	I'm not going to keep doing it for you.
	And, you know, and every once in a while, he goes back into, now he has this whole weird little routine where he comes out, he does a little dolphin thing.
	Because when he comes up, you'll see he likes to dolphin.
	So he's like, oh, I need a little extra, you know, let me just dolphin a couple times.
	And he goes out and he almost hits it and he thinks he's gotten it.
	And I'm like, you didn't get it.
	And he's like, oh, I totally did.
	I go, no, you didn't.
	It's like, it's still, it's not on.
	And he's like, are you sure?
	I'm like, yeah, I'm really sure.
	And he'll go back out there and, you know, and he'll finally, you know, he'll get it.
	But it has to be just right.
	If it's too hard to turn on, he won't do it.
	Right.
	And if it's too easy, he'll just breathe on it or he'll use his chin.
	And I'm like, oh, you cheater, you cheater.
	You just, you know, but people still love it.
	Like I said, yeah.
	Yeah, it's somebody being, it's just seeing somebody being around cats is insane, you know, because there's a level of insanity to it for some people because they can't imagine it.
	But the fact that you love it, I think is what makes it so important.
	And the fact also that you guys are helping getting cats in homes, you know, I didn't even believe in cats.
	I remember at first somebody told me about a cat or something.
	I was like, the fuck are you talking about when I was a kid?
	You know, I was like, yeah, what are you even fucking talking about?
	The cats are so amazing.
	I just, I mean, I just love them so much.
	And it's so to, I mean, I mean, because I'll have the worst show.
	I'll feel like I just had the worst show ever.
	And people come up and like, this is the best show I've ever seen.
	And the joy that people have, you know, they're like, I haven't smiled.
	I haven't, you know, I was going through cancer and I haven't smiled in three years.
	And this is the first time I've smiled.
	And I get letters from, you know, like my, you know, divorced couples.
	It's like, I brought my daughter to see your show.
	And the very week, you know, we got your training kit.
	The next week, I went over to the house and I paid my admission price.
	And my daughter had set up a whole little cat circus in the basement.
	It's like I still hate Stanley, but I love those cats.
	Yeah, it's a joy.
	Look, it's fascinating.
	I think it's fascinating.
	I think it's fascinating to get to sit here with you, Samantha Martin, and to learn about Acrocats.
	You guys are going on tour, right?
	We'll put the links to where they can find you guys' tour.
	Where is it?
	Oh, the website.
	Rockatsrescue.org.
	Rocketsrescue.org.
	You can find the tour for Samantha and the amazing Acrocats.
	And we're going to get a couple cats up here.
	Yeah, yeah.
	We've got some cats and some kittens and foster kittens too.
	The ones that were two that are possibly going to be joining the team.
	And right now we have 10 foster kittens, which is a lot.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	So I have them all stationing.
	I have all these little stools and things.
	So they're all trained to go and, you know, it's called, I call it the Lion Pyramid of Kittens.
	So, you know, I have, they'll all just come racing in and then assemble, you know, on their various platform.
	And then we'll have a sign that says, adopt us, that, you know, we put behind them.
	And it's just, it's just chaos initially.
	And then eventually they all find their place and they sit and they sit pretty and they do their thing.
	So it is, you know, like I said, and it's just, I love training and watching them learn, seeing that light come on.
	And just, it's such a, it's a completely different cat than the cat that's never paid attention to or just, you know, bowl of food is left out 24-7.
	And, you know, when cats are capable of so much more, I just, you know, just spend 10 minutes a day with your cat.
	It's all it takes.
	You know, this is your family member.
	And 10 minutes a day isn't too much to ask.
	Just to, you know, and really, that's fair.
	I mean, that's definitely fair.
	Some people think cats are, they don't know.
	They don't know what they are, even if they have them.
	But you're saying that there's a lot more to cats that people aren't seeing and investigating and that they could spend a little bit more time and do that.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And then less of them be left behind when, you know, well, I got to move and the place isn't allowed.
	Well, you find a place to go.
	Sometimes cats will stay, though, too.
	Cats will, I'm not moving and they'll stay.
	So sometimes people do leave their cats.
	Sometimes cats leave the people too.
	Yeah, well, that is, you know, but if a person developed that relationship, then that cat is going to want to go wherever you go.
	Like that, like my, is that true?
	Yeah.
	Oh, absolutely.
	If you and if you just invest a little bit of time in your cat, then they're definitely going to want to stay with you.
	I mean, they, you know, when, you know, when tour time comes around, and I mean, they're definitely, I don't want to be left behind.
	I want to be left behind.
	Something's happening.
	Something's happening.
	And they really, I mean, they want to go.
	They love the attention.
	They love, you know, they, I mean, they have the back third of the buses all decked out for the cats.
	So they have the add in some pictures.
	Yeah.
	I mean, some cats are performers.
	Some cats are who knows, you know.
	I think there's a lot to know about cats, and I don't know a lot of it, but I'm grateful to just sit here and hear about it today and to know what's going on, that there's cats out there.
	There's something about knowing there's cats out there traveling the globe, performing at night that kind of keeps me going.
	Let's get a couple cats up here and see.
	Let's see what we can see.
	So there's a lot of work that goes into training an animal.
	Yeah, that's fascinating.
	Especially cats, because you have to acclimate them to so many different things.
	Yeah, most people think a cat is just crazy.
	But it can be more than that.
	What?
	Wow.
	Dude, that's great.
	Oh my God.
	You can do it.
	How about the fell?
	It's a little tight.
	You could do it, too.
	Yeah.
	Oh, wow.
	That's sexy.
	All right.
	All right.
	Try the small one.
	It's really...
	Tuna.
	Tuna.
	There we go.
	Whoa.
	Gosh, she's bad.
	And then Aki Gurley gets a good hype on this one.
	All right.
	Tuna.
	Up.
	There we go.
	Up.
	Oh, that's a party cat.
	Wow.
	It's clean.
	That cat's clean, huh?
	What do y'all clean it with?
	Oh, wow.
	Oh, that one.
	Oh.
	It could work at AutoZone, dude.
	That's unbelievable.
	Oh, yeah.
	We did a car commercial really early on.
	It was hysterical with the cats.
	Tuna, Tuna.
	Tuna.
	You were late on that treat.
	I'm out of here.
	We can bring out the kittens.
	Yeah, we're the chickens.
	Yeah, the chickens here.
	Wow, this is neat.
	I didn't know that an animal could do something like that.
	Can you bring your relegation?
	Oh, she could be a night manager at a motel.
	Get ready again.
	Oh, you cheated.
	You gotta clear it.
	You gotta clear it.
	It was nice for you not to beat up a kitten.
	Try it again.
	Get a running start.
	Get a ready start.
	You're kind of cheating there.
	So the goal is for you we would click once he clears it without stepping on it.
	Oh, I see.
	So he wants to.
	Click reinforces the exact movement that you want.
	So he's cheating or he's just taking it easy.
	Well, he hasn't quite gotten it yet.
	He's still in the training.
	Like, I just started working on this two days ago.
	Yeah, Crusher.
	I'll have to send the clip of the skateboarding that we've been working on because it was one day of training with the skateboard.
	Yeah, these cats are really chilling out here now.
	Yeah.
	Damn, it's like a dang strip club in here.
	Wow.
	Gremlin.
	There we go.
	This is the most cats we've ever had at one time.
	Anywhere.
	That's the best.
	So that's Mantha.
	He's trying to take us off.
	That's good.
	Wow, they're beautiful.
	They're all available for adoption.
	Well, except we are...
	Except we're crush and twigs.
	Crush and twigs are kind of on the...
	If they don't go on tour, they're available for adoption.
	Well, they'll go be on tour regardless.
	So when we go out on tour, we bring them all out.
	Oh, you know, we'll kind of, it'll be kind of like a test time to see who loves it.
	Some cats are just born to be on stage.
	I want this job.
	I want to do this.
	Other cats are like, I don't want this job.
	So they, I want to be a house pet, but I'll still do some tricks.
	So those are the ones that we adopt out.
	And just because we had to retire two of our cats recently is why we're hiring.
	Yeah, the stage isn't for everybody.
	Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone.
	But it's for the acrocats, though.
	It is for the acrocats.
	I think we start out with like something, you know, simple.
	This is like, oh, this is easy.
	We hear the click, we get this treat, and they're letting you sit pretty.
	Oh, I'm just glad you're not giving them opioids or anything like that.
	I know people ask me, do you drug your cats?
	Are you deep fly your cats?
	I'm like, they're acrocats.
	They need to be able to fly.
	Well, the Japanese are drugging those dogs that are on Instagram, but that's a different conversation.
	The Acrocats, Samantha Martin, thank you so much for spending time with me and just for letting me learn about these cats.
	And yeah, they really are beautiful today.
	And I look forward to seeing a show sometime.
	Yeah, we're trying to book in Nashville if we can get the theater to call us back.
	Well, yeah, we'll see if we can help.
	But this is really awesome.
	I appreciate you guys coming and spending time with us today.
	Now, I'm just focusing on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.
	I must be cornerstone.
	Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this piece of mind.
	I found I can feel it in my bones.

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