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Jan. 11, 2023 - This Past Weekend - Theo Von

02:30:43

E425 Louis C.K.

Louis C.K. is a comedian, writer and filmmaker. He will be live-streaming his new special “Louis C.K.: Back to the Garden” from Madison Square Garden in NYC on January 28th at 7:30pm EST. Get tickets at https://livestream.louisck.com/ Louis C.K. joins This Past Weekend to chat with Theo about growing up, weird middle school punishments, first boobs, making movies, the dangers of success and more. Louis C.K.: https://www.instagram.com/louisckx ------------------------------------------------ Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com Podcastville mugs and prints available now at https://theovon.pixels.com ------------------------------------------------- Support our Sponsors: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://www.amazon.com/stores/CELSIUS/ShopNow/page/95D581F4-E14E-4B01-91E7-6E2CA58A3C29 Keeps: Visit https://keeps.com/theo to receive your first month of treatment for free! ShipStation: Visit https://shipstation.com to sign up for your FREE 60-day trial with promo code THEO. Lightstream: Visit https://lightstream.com/theo and apply now to get a special interest rate discount and save even more. DraftKings: Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code THEO. New customers can bet FIVE DOLLARS on the NFL and get TWO HUNDRED IN FREE BETS INSTANTLY. Only at DraftKings Sportsbook with code THEO. Gambling Problem? Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/LA/MD/MI/NJ/PA/TN/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/KS/NH), 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), visit OPGR.org (OR), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/KS/LA(select parishes)/MD/MI /NJ/ NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. VOID IN OH/ONT. Eligibility restrictions apply. Free bets: Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 bet. $200 issued as free bets that expire 7 days (168 hours) after being awarded. See terms at sportsbook.draftkings.com/footballterms. No Sweat: Valid 1 offer per customer per day of NFL 2023 Wild Card Round. Opt in req each day. First bet must lose after opting in. NFL bets only. Paid as one (1) free bet based on amount of initial losing bet. Max $10 free bet awarded. Free bets expire 7 days (168 hours) after being awarded. See terms at sportsbook.draftkings.com/footballterms. ------------------------------------------------- Music: "Shine" by Bishop Gunn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3A_coTcUek ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: tpwproducer@gmail.com Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Send mail to: This Past Weekend 1906 Glen Echo Rd PO Box #159359 Nashville, TN 37215 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers/ Producer: Colin https://instagram.com/colin_reiner See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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	Alright, we got some new merch to tell you about.
	We got the vintage rat tea, the hunting club hoodies and hats, if you like to get out there with that gunpowder, as well as some new colors in the BGTY Be Good to Yourself collection.
	Get that and more at theovanstore.com and thanks for repping.
	New tour dates to announce.
	I will be in Las Vegas on June 30th and July 2nd at the Encore Theater.
	Get pre-sale tickets with code RATKI starting Wednesday, January 11th at 10 a.m.
	Pacific time.
	General on sale starts Friday, January 13th at 10 a.m.
	Pacific Time.
	We're also adding a sixth show in Austin on June 8th and a fourth show in Houston on March 23rd.
	We also have a few tickets left in Louisville, Indianapolis, Shreveport, Baton Rouge, Boston, Medford, Corpus Tristi, and Phoenix and New York City.
	Get tickets at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R.
	That's tour.
	Today's guest is a rare, he's a rare, he's a one of a kind.
	And he is.
	People say that all the time about people, but this, he is that.
	He's a comedian.
	He's a filmmaker.
	He has a new special streaming on January 28th, live from Madison Square Garden.
	You'll be able to watch the live stream of it.
	We'll put that information below.
	I saw him perform last night.
	It was unreal.
	Happy to have him here today,
	Mr. Louis C.K. I sweat more when it's
	cold, weirdly.
	Yeah?
	Yeah.
	I get clammy.
	If I'm warm up, I sweat less, like at night.
	Yeah.
	We used to have a buddy.
	I was sitting about sweating, but it made me think about reptiles.
	I used to work on this farm and we had a dude after it would rain.
	He would go lay on the concrete up there.
	He'd take his shirt off and go lay on the concrete.
	Really?
	Like a reptile kind of guy.
	Because it felt good.
	He cools off.
	That's like what dogs do.
	They sit on the hearth, you know.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, you know, they sit somewhere.
	They find a cool spot on the floor.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I think it just felt good on his skin.
	After it would rain, he would take his shirt off.
	This dude named Lance.
	He was really in touch with what made him feel good.
	That's a good thing.
	Yeah.
	That's a good point.
	A lot of people won't do that.
	But he's like, I know that feels good, so I'm going to do it.
	Yeah.
	That's all right.
	Yeah, it is kind of nice.
	I think there's probably more stuff people would do in public if they were less probably like inhibited or whatever about it.
	Oh, definitely.
	I was like, I was in a.
	We move this a little closer on you though.
	Yeah, sure.
	I was in, I think, you know, those places that are like, it's like a chain restaurant, but it's a little better.
	You know what I mean?
	A little better?
	Yeah, like BJ's.
	Yeah, that kind of thing.
	I forget what it was, but it was daytime and it was really dead in there in some, I don't know, Akron, Ohio or some horrible place.
	And some big lady came in, you know, off the street.
	And you could tell they were like, okay, like they, they have something where they just like, just let her come in.
	You know what I mean?
	Right.
	Let her come in, let her smell everything.
	Yeah, maybe she got stopped at the door one day and it got like, okay, you see, they went to the manager and he's like, it's okay.
	It's okay.
	There wasn't enough customers in there.
	She came in and she just starts walking through the restaurant and she takes the creamers, you know, those metal tin creamers that are on the kind of places.
	She starts drinking cream and then she leaves.
	And I thought, if I wasn't worried about how that looks, I might do that.
	Yeah.
	You know what I mean?
	Like there's something about creamers is like as a kid that's kind of magical.
	That's kind of cold cream.
	Maybe she knows the time they just poured them so they're nice and cold.
	But if you'd had no concern about, you might walk by a restaurant and go, I bet they got some nice cold creamers and I'm going to have myself some.
	Yeah, that's true.
	Yeah, I can see that coming through and just kind of sniffing the cream, just having some.
	Just being, I always want to like touch people on the back of their neck.
	Yeah.
	Wow, that's an interesting one.
	Because I feel like it's like the most kind of like, it's almost like a real parental place.
	Oh, yeah.
	It's caring.
	It's yeah.
	So you mean you're the parent?
	I don't know.
	I mean, maybe I would dress up in a suit or something, but I don't know if I would be like the parent.
	But I just, yeah, sometimes I want to do that.
	Even when I'm just talking to people, I want to like, I almost feel like if I put my hand on the back of their neck, we would know more about each other or something.
	You'd be closer.
	You'd be an arm's length away.
	Yeah.
	When I was in school in middle school.
	You hardly escape that moment.
	Yeah, it's hard to escape it.
	So then I think you're there with like the honesty of whatever's really going on.
	When I was in middle school, if you got in a fight, they made you stand in the hall all day and hug each other like this.
	No shit.
	Yeah.
	Like, what do you mean, like hands on each other's shoulders?
	Yeah, yeah.
	You and another dude?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And you're both going, this is bullshit.
	For how long?
	Probably, I think I was out there for four hours one time, probably.
	No shit.
	Yeah, me and this kid Brad Castle.
	And did you have like blood on you from the fight still?
	Yeah, still pretty dirtied up.
	I mean, I will, yeah, he got the best of me.
	But yeah, we were out there and the kids would come through during the, like, and you try to be kind of cool.
	Like, while it was, uh, while it was like, well, while it was in class, you would try to like just like be like, you would kind of relax and be cool with each other.
	And then when the kids would, the bell would ring and they would switch classes, you'd be like, this is fucking gay, dude.
	Right.
	You know, you would like.
	But then you're alone out there during class time.
	Yeah.
	So you'd have to get to know each other.
	So you really would talk probably, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, there'd be like a period of just like, man, fuck this.
	Fuck you, man.
	Yeah.
	But then you start going, so what, what do you, like, what are you doing after school?
	Or where do you, you know, is your, do you have sisters or brothers?
	Yes.
	You start to talk about it.
	Oh, yeah, you get into it.
	And then he became a friend.
	So I like that.
	I think, yeah, there's something about that.
	That's a smart idea.
	The only that pose of hands on shoulders, it reminds me of when I was, I mean, that was middle school.
	So this was fifth, sixth grade.
	Kids, boys and girls started saying they want to be boyfriend, girlfriend.
	You know, it started to be that thing.
	And it was only the cool kids that could do that.
	Like anybody that was below, you know, in the nerdy or just not popular.
	Anybody with glasses on was out.
	Oh, no.
	You had no currency.
	Yeah.
	But all the cool kids got to hook up.
	Yeah.
	And so they would be like Mike McDougal and Samantha, Amanda Stebbins, these real people, are going to kiss.
	And they did it as a tribe, too.
	You didn't just walk up to girl.
	Like, I walked up to girls and said, you want to be my girlfriend?
	They're like, flag of the play, buddy.
	That's not how it's done.
	That's like somebody coming off the sidelines and just getting in the play.
	Hey, give me the, get the fuck out of here.
	Come in and just sipping your cream.
	No, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	So you had to, it would be like they'd decide as a tribe, Mike and Amanda are going to be a couple.
	Yeah.
	So Amanda's friends would push her and Mike's would push him and they'd have to go to some place and kiss.
	They're going to kiss behind a tree or something.
	Yeah.
	And they would stand like that with hands on shoulders, just that exact, and they'd be like looking like trying to look to the sides and everybody's going, come on.
	And everyone's, come on, Mike, you f ⁇ ing.
	And like fucking screaming at him.
	And he's like, and Amanda, don't be a, you know, they just, whatever.
	And then they'd kiss and everybody goes, oh, and it was that.
	Yeah, they're both queer somehow.
	And one of them's stepdad was there too.
	Like, what is that dude?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Come on, Mike.
	But, but it's a similar thing of kids, two young people trying to.
	I never heard that.
	Your school must have, that's a really creative and interesting.
	I thought it was.
	It was one, and me and that guy are still friends.
	I just saw him a couple weeks ago.
	And I thought.
	But he'll do that thing just to talk some people.
	Just once in a while, it should be a regular thing.
	One shining moment.
	Yeah.
	Just sing a little.
	Yeah.
	It almost reminds me of Lord of the Flies, what you're talking about, because it really was.
	I never thought about it like that.
	Like the whole tribe kind of had to agree that Scott and Jessica were going to kiss.
	That's right.
	And then, like, if you were like a little bitch, it would stand there and kind of like just like watch.
	Like, some people were right up there, like, you know, nudging him in, but some people were in the back just yelling shit.
	You know?
	No, things were very tribal and medieval.
	There's microcosms there at those ages.
	Oh, yeah.
	I had a friend who was very popular, but he had me like as a side bitch in some weird way.
	Like I was his friend, but I didn't get to hang out with him.
	We lived close to each other.
	He lived two houses down from me.
	So he would hang out with me, just me and him.
	But when he was out with his boys, like I just wasn't invited.
	It was a weird thing.
	But one time I was playing basketball with him and some guy from his group came over and because he was kind of a leader and he was telling this guy why he's out and I hadn't seen that before.
	Like I was just, I just sat and listened and he was like saying, he was like, hey, man, why are you mad at me?
	Everybody's saying you're mad at me.
	Nobody talks to me anymore.
	This other guy.
	Like, why is nobody talking to me?
	And he said, because you're just, you changed and you're not, you're not cool anymore.
	And he's like, what do you mean I changed?
	I'm just being myself.
	And he's like, and he wouldn't give him the information.
	Like, he hadn't done anything.
	He's just like, you're just out, man.
	You're just not, it's not, you know, you should look into yourself and decide.
	Wow.
	What did you do?
	You think about it.
	It's not for me to tell you.
	And the poor kid was like crushed because this was, he was part of this group and he was out after that.
	And you'd never seen him be in that kind of situation.
	I'd never seen that.
	I was fascinated by it.
	Yeah.
	And he also did it openly in front of me because I just didn't count, you know?
	Right.
	He's like, this is some fly on the wall.
	This guy will never.
	Yeah.
	But we were like 10. Everybody was 10 in the story.
	I was like, where the fuck did he get this sophisticated kind of like Dick Cheney kind of like, you know, you're out?
	You're out.
	You know, fucking.
	And like your message that, yeah, it's Louis.
	It doesn't even matter.
	Yeah, I didn't know he was.
	It didn't matter.
	He'll never make it to the Capitol to tell anyone.
	No, I was a servant.
	Yeah.
	I'm like the guy who got shot in the face.
	Yeah.
	Dude, I remember, oh, what were you just talking about?
	Oh, you were talking about friends?
	Middle school.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, it's crazy when you look at a 10-year-old, it looks like they're doing nothing, kind of like they're dumb and their necks getting longer.
	But then it's like you look at you like, but then like you hear a story like that and you're like, yeah, they have this whole cosmic universe that's going on.
	Well, yeah, because we don't see it.
	When you see kids, they kind of look just frozen faced.
	Because when an adult walks in the room, like in Lord of the Flies, did you ever see the movie?
	Oh, yeah, I did.
	Well, it ends with just like this boot, this adult boot in the foreground.
	Oh, yeah.
	It just stops all the madness.
	Shut it down.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But yeah, you're right.
	In their own world, they're, you know.
	It's so wild to think about that.
	Because, yeah, I really get infatuated with those kind of times, man.
	Like, I love that kind of stuff.
	I loved growing up.
	I loved like the mystery of all of it.
	Like how everything was so crazy.
	And it was just, and the things you could do, man.
	We used to, like, I remember the first time I ever touched a girl's breast, right?
	They had this girl, they had this dude in our neighborhood.
	He was Elvis Impersonator, right?
	And like on stage or just in life?
	I would say a little more life.
	Yeah.
	I mean, he walked around dressed like Elvis.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	He walked around.
	I mean, he did as good as he could to get, you know, to be there, you know?
	And anyway, yeah, he, but he had, well, something happened to him.
	He got hit by, he'd broken a leg or something, and they set it like in a, they got it set just, he got it set locally, basically.
	Had it like a, somebody do it.
	So when it broke again, he had like a nashville Elvis.
	So he was halfway to Elvis right there.
	So that he started with that, and then he was like, hey, man, funny idea.
	Thank you very much.
	He just started getting into it.
	Yeah, he was just a nice guy that was like, I don't think even Elvis got started like that.
	So at least he could say it was grassroots kind of thing.
	Right.
	Or maybe he had a moment in the mirror where he's like this and he goes, I could either walk around like this or I could put it, maybe it was a way to save it, you know?
	Yeah, I think it probably saved him some faith because he was probably very embarrassed.
	So anyway, his kids, he made him stay in the yard, right?
	And he had an electric fence on their yard and they were Pentecostals.
	And one of the girls let me touch her breast through that fucking fence, dude.
	Oh.
	And she wore a mother's nightgown, I remember.
	She wore an adult woman.
	Wait a minute.
	I missed the connection.
	Who is she to the elder?
	Daughter.
	Okay.
	And how old were you?
	I was probably 10 or maybe 11. And she was what?
	I don't know.
	40. I don't know.
	In my mind, she was an adult.
	It wasn't even a little bit of a title.
	Anyone tits wasn't even a tit.
	It was like a kid's breath.
	She was swell.
	Yes.
	Well, you were a kid.
	You can't be a child muster when you're a child.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	Thank you.
	And I want to say that to everybody out there.
	All you kids out there.
	Yeah.
	You're not pedophiles.
	Yeah.
	But I remember still, dude, there was just so much fear reaching through that electric fence.
	So it was a chain link fence?
	No, it was like a wire, and it's not a barbed wire.
	Pull up an electric fence, Zachary, if you don't mind.
	Well, yeah, it's like on wood, right?
	It's just a cord.
	It's like a very...
	Yeah.
	Yeah, okay.
	There you go.
	So there was plenty of, it wasn't like you were touching fence.
	No, but it was so.
	When she came up to the fence wearing her mother's nightgown.
	I swear to God, it was a, yes, it was an adult.
	To me, it seemed maybe so adult also too.
	I just want a little context, like before and after.
	Because what I'm picturing with this picture that you're showing of like this fence in a field, which is where electric fences are usually in a desolate place.
	Right.
	This was unbelievable.
	I'm just picturing this girl with like wind flapping around this thing.
	And then you just come and then you just do this.
	This was like...
	But was it like, did you make a plan or did you see her across, did you see her across the fence and go, hi, Becky?
	And then you came to talk and then she said, would you like to touch my breast?
	Was it like that?
	I knew she liked me.
	Okay.
	And I knew that they couldn't get out.
	Like their dad did not let, like, they didn't have a babysitter, so they would just lock the gate or whatever, right?
	This is kind of those times.
	Yeah.
	And so.
	Those times for some people.
	Oh, yeah.
	I don't know.
	I mean, it was like, yeah, in our area, I think if you had a gate, that was your step.
	That was like your dad.
	Okay.
	You know, for a lot of people.
	Latchkey kids.
	Yeah.
	Just like that.
	Yeah.
	So, but I remember, yeah, I got close and just, yeah, she knew I liked her.
	And I guess I think she'd been a little bit, somebody had, she had dated.
	I think she'd been on a date.
	Okay.
	So she had maybe a little more experience, you know, I felt like she was.
	Yeah, that was at that age.
	There was that thing where some of us had done it and some of us hadn't.
	Yeah.
	Oh, and it was such a, oh, when we heard that there was a summer where somebody like got a boner, like got a sex on a pool toy or something.
	Holy fuck.
	And people were losing their shit.
	Yeah, the kid who got rejected by my friend, he went, he got, went rogue.
	You know, he became like a bit of a nut.
	So then when we were all in middle school or about to be in middle school, he started doing some drugs and stuff.
	And he would, at Halloween, I remember, he would wait till the end of the night and fucking take kids candy.
	Like he would take full sacks.
	He would just walk up to kids and just grab and get the fuck away from me.
	And he would just, and he didn't even like the candy.
	He was really fucked up.
	But I found him fat.
	I went, I sort of latched myself to him.
	Like I went from that other friend.
	I'm like, this is the guy.
	I mean, this is somebody worth knowing now.
	But he was the first kid I knew who had like a shit ton of porn and stuff.
	And so, yeah.
	And he was the first person I talked about sex with.
	And he was like, I want to, someday I got to fuck a woman.
	So, you know, so then I heard that he fucked a girl.
	Oh, wow.
	And I remember I saw him in a park and I'd heard that he fucked a girl.
	And I ran to him.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	And I said, hey, man, I heard you fucked a girl.
	And he said, calm down, man.
	Calm down.
	You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
	Just shut up.
	And I realized he's on the other side of this line that I'm a child and he's a man.
	And he wanted nothing to do with me anymore.
	So, yeah, it was tough.
	Yeah, there's that line.
	There's that like moment you cross over.
	I remember finding some pornography in my brother's closet and I found some liquor at the same time, right?
	And so I was having liquor and looking at pornography and I blacked out.
	I couldn't handle it.
	I fucking blacked out and fell off the shelving unit.
	And it wasn't from the liquor, maybe.
	You just couldn't, you just overloaded.
	Yeah, I'd had two sips of it.
	It was peach, but I don't think it was anything I couldn't handle.
	No.
	Yeah, it was too much at the beginning.
	Oh, the sex was too much.
	I remember the first girl that I had a specific sexual feeling about was this girl in junior high school.
	We call it junior high school where I grew up.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And I had this fantasy about her.
	I would lay in my bed.
	This before I did anything to myself or anything, I just lay in bed and think about her.
	Oh, yeah.
	And I would picture her.
	She wore this, because I always saw her at gym class.
	And it was this yellow t-shirt and blue shorts was the uniform.
	We were uniform at gym.
	Oh, wow.
	And I just would picture her just lifting her t-shirt just a little bit.
	And that was, and I go stop there.
	Like, I would tell myself, don't ever in your life think past that point.
	It's all past that is not okay.
	Wow.
	And I stayed there for a long time.
	Did you, oh, I remember at summer camp, they had this cute girl, right?
	I think she was cute.
	I don't know.
	She was a female.
	And she would let us come over and look.
	She had like this kind of boyfriend that liked her.
	We're all kind of jealous, this other camp counselor.
	And sometimes she would let us come over and look down her shirt.
	Oh, yeah.
	And he would sit there right by, kind of like.
	Oh, a little bit of a cuck thing.
	Like monitoring, like you're allowed to come in and see what's in the shop, you know?
	Whoa.
	It was cool.
	he was a counselor?
	Yeah.
	Were you a counselor?
	Were they all counselors?
	I was a kid.
	Wait a minute.
	So he was a counselor.
	Was she a counselor?
	She was a counselor.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	She was a counselor.
	Yeah.
	Oh, so it was like, we're going to let the boys look at her tits.
	Yeah, I think it was just, I don't know if it might have been raining out or something.
	There wasn't like anything planned or whatever, but they I remember they, that we got to go over and like, and one kid, I remember this crazy dude.
	Yeah.
	This black kid tried to put his hand.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	What'd they do?
	What'd the guy do?
	The guy kind of shut him down.
	Okay, that's what he was there for.
	And then, yeah, and I was like, oh, this kid knows more than I do, right?
	Because I was like, I went up hands behind my back.
	Like I was.
	Oh, you did?
	Oh, man.
	I was like, because I feel like if my hand, I can't control my hands around a tit.
	So I got to put them.
	You're back there.
	That's enough control.
	It just gave me a little bit of leeway.
	Just a little bit, yeah.
	If I felt him coming across my hands.
	Walk away.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, I get it.
	I'd like to imagine the conversation between those two counselors, you know.
	What are we going to do today?
	Checkers, what are we going to do?
	It's raining.
	And she's like, how about we let him see my tits?
	And he's like, well, I don't know.
	Okay.
	If I'm in the room, I think that's okay.
	That's wild.
	Yeah, it was just, but it's crazy how moments were so, I don't know.
	There was nothing stronger in the world to me than some of those moments of being in a child, especially when like sexualization came into things.
	This is just a giant.
	I mean, I was first, I had a really slow build because I wasn't like in the popular group.
	So I didn't kiss a girl in middle school once.
	I didn't kiss a girl till high school, till sophomore year high school.
	That's kind of normal, I think.
	I guess maybe it is, yeah.
	But you had the good-looking friend that would kiss girls.
	Oh, yeah.
	There was a couple.
	I remember this guy, Mike, walking with him once from school.
	We could leave, go out for lunch and stuff at our high school.
	And he took his shirt off his summer.
	So he was just walking in shorts or something.
	And girls were catcalling him.
	And I'd never heard of that of girls.
	They were going, oh, Mike, you know, come on, baby, give it to me.
	And he'd go like, no, no, not for you.
	He was like kind of coy.
	And I never knew that girls like lusted after guys.
	I just thought it's guys want sex and women, you know, girls let you when they give you when they want to let you for some other reason or something like that.
	Yeah.
	Cause I hadn't still hadn't done anything.
	And then when I was a sophomore, I met a girl, I think, well, there was a girl that I went on a date with who I just fell in love with.
	And we kissed and we fell in love.
	And then she lost interest immediately.
	So she, I got heartbroken right away.
	But we only ever kissed.
	But this girl, Becky, was the first girl that she was like, let me touch her tits.
	Let me put my hand in her jeans.
	It was like all at once with Becky.
	Just those two.
	Because the early things are all things you do for them.
	I mean, the idea they're going to touch your dick is like, that's crazy.
	Never going to happen.
	No.
	The first like three bases are all shit you do for them, really.
	Yeah.
	And my dick, my penis hurt so much.
	I've been touching it so much.
	was always in pain I felt like yeah I was like Oh, dude.
	Too much.
	Yeah.
	Like, if I owned, if I treated anything as bad as I treated my penis, it would be unbelievable.
	Imagine you get a little guy around and you just beat him on the back all the time until he spit up.
	And it feels really good.
	When he spits, you're like, yeah.
	It would be hard not to beat the shit out of that kid every day.
	Every day.
	I would hire other people to come beat him.
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	Yeah, no.
	It really is crazy that poor, I feel for little boys because it's like you're a boy.
	You don't know how to handle yourself.
	You don't know how to keep your room clean.
	You know, little boys just, they smell.
	They don't, they don't, they're animals.
	Yeah.
	And then you learn that there's this thing that makes you calm.
	It's like, forget it.
	You'll rip it off.
	You'll rip it straight off your body.
	Like you get as close as you can.
	Oh, yeah.
	No, you get to the point where like, I can't do it anymore.
	Like, I need like a week off because it stings.
	I can't get it.
	Oh, I want to rip it off and throw it back to Africa sometimes.
	Like, that's really how I feel, man.
	Sure.
	And somebody'll make a fucking soup out of it.
	You know what I'm saying?
	They don't even.
	That's what they'll do?
	Or just wait for white dicks to land.
	There's another one.
	There's another kid who couldn't take it.
	And they make a soup.
	Throw it back to the motherland.
	Yeah, I love stuff like that, man.
	Those feelings, all that stuff.
	Did you have like a role model telling you about sex or anything growing up?
	No, I had friends and all of us.
	I remember when my friends and I first started, like the group of friends that I had would talk about sex and we were like telling each other how it works.
	And one kid said, well, you put your penis in her vagina and you just, and you, and you come, he said that you come, one of your balls comes out when you come.
	Oh.
	And it really hurts.
	Oh, yeah.
	And I said, and we had had sex ed in school.
	I said, I don't know if you guys paid attention, but that's not what happens.
	I said, first of all, you go in and out.
	And all my friends were like, you fucking idiot.
	No, you don't.
	You just put it in.
	You don't go in and out like somebody who's loitering at a party's or something.
	Yeah.
	Like the door.
	No, you just go.
	He's just like, you just leave it in there.
	But no, my father taught me, my father's an odd guy.
	And he sat me down and he said, I think my mother told me you need to talk to him.
	I had three older sisters.
	I was the only boy.
	So she said, you need to talk to him.
	And what he told me was, he said, when you have sex with a woman, you need to make her desire you.
	So you enter her.
	He just skipped all the, like, how it works.
	He just said, you enter her a little bit.
	You touch, just barely touch her.
	And then you come out and you withhold.
	He was Mexican and he had a weird sort of traditional.
	He'd say, and then you, and then you make her beg and beg.
	And then you go in again and you go only a little bit and then you just come out again.
	And you keep withholding until she can't stand it.
	And only then do you really penetrate her and she'll come like a rocket.
	Like he was just like, he taught me how to make a woman come.
	He wasn't wrong.
	He wasn't wrong.
	But I think you need to tell a little kid some mother shit first before you get to like how to make a middle-aged woman come.
	Yeah.
	You know what I mean?
	Yeah.
	But that's what he was like.
	He was very narcissistic.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	Who taught you about sex?
	I mean, did you have, I'm asking the same question, a mentor?
	Yeah, thanks for asking, man.
	My dad, well, my dad was 70 when I was born, so my dad was an older guy.
	And so he would always tell me he had dated chicks' grandmothers that were like in my class and stuff like that.
	And he would show me like poems that he had written, and they were like on paper that was like disintegrating.
	Like it was like, it was.
	Also, he was teaching you about romance.
	Yeah, my dad was more of a romancer.
	That's nice.
	So he was teaching me about romance, but nothing about sex.
	One time I saw him.
	I think he had cancer or something, but he was walking down the hall.
	And like, I thought he was going to have, like, he had a new girlfriend.
	And we were at her house.
	She had a nice house and she made all this like beef brisket or whatever.
	I'd never even seen it.
	You know, blew my fucking mind.
	Yeah.
	Just what you're, were your parents married?
	They were married till I was seven and then they got divorced.
	And did he have kids before with other women?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	He had three other children.
	Okay.
	So he's now, so now you're how old?
	I'm maybe at this point, I was probably 12. And you saw him somewhere and he had another girlfriend.
	Yeah.
	And she left brisket.
	You'd only ever had bologna and cola cuts or something.
	Oh, I'd never had brisket.
	No, of course not.
	I mean, I was, yeah, I never even couldn't have imagined it.
	And then he was walking down the hall and I thought he was going to like have sex with me.
	It was at nighttime.
	And I would sleep on their living room, on the living room couch.
	And then he literally he was sick and he defecated all over himself.
	And it was like one of the scariest and craziest things that ever happened.
	Because I remember watching him and thinking, wow, my dad's going to like be with this lady, you know?
	And she was like wealthy.
	And I don't even know why she even liked us, but she did.
	And then he was sick, you know?
	And then I was so afraid to try to go to help or anything because he was like, he had cancer and he was getting real sick.
	I didn't know.
	Wow.
	But it was over.
	Anyway, that story took kind of a weird turn, but that's just life, you know?
	But yeah.
	It was like a moment where there was just a lot of life at work.
	But so one interesting way you put it is you say, she didn't know why she liked us.
	So you and your dad were like a unit.
	You were like a team.
	Like, so did when he left, when your mom, when your mom and him divorced, you went with dad?
	No, I stayed with my mom, but I always felt like my dad was just more loving.
	Yeah.
	My mom has like kind of like an emotional kind of autism.
	Like she can't show you affection kind of.
	That's hard, yeah.
	And a lot of parents like that.
	It's hard.
	Is there?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So it was just kind of like, but she's a hard worker and stuff.
	But anyway, it was, So then, and I was kind of infatuated by my dad because nothing he did.
	He was older, so everything was off a little.
	It didn't make sense.
	And it was kind of, I think it was more fascinating, you know, being around him.
	Yeah, I felt that way about my dad a little bit because he wasn't like any of my friends' dads.
	He was a strange guy, he was a Mexican and mysterious dude.
	Yeah, a bit like you European Mexican, you know.
	There's a lot of different kinds of Mexicans.
	I lived there till I was about seven.
	Oh, nice.
	But yeah, he was weird.
	So I was fascinated by him.
	But he didn't show much interest.
	I just remember him always looking at his eye level.
	He didn't look down at me much.
	I just always looked up at his face and he was looking that way.
	Wow.
	What does that do to you?
	Well, it's hard, but I feel more bad for him because he was alone up there.
	I didn't think about that.
	I do now because he's very, very old and in a chair like this.
	And he's alone.
	We don't go see him much, me and my sisters.
	And my mom, I mean, when she died in her last year of life, when she was, you know, we were like there and kept her in our houses and took care of her till the last second.
	She had us all around her.
	Never alone because she just was a loving person and she, you know, you wanted to be with her.
	Oh, wow.
	But my dad was all fucked up in his own head.
	And he was, you know, I mean, narcissism is like a, it's a sickness.
	Yeah.
	And it's isolating.
	It's very sad.
	You know, I feel bad for him now.
	I'm able to feel bad for him because he was, it was painful to be his kid, you know, physically and mentally.
	So, but I'm past that 55 years.
	It takes a long time to, you know.
	Were you surprised how long it took to get past that kind of stuff?
	Because I find it's interesting.
	A lot of our audience is like kind of guys that kind of like are still figuring things out.
	It's kind of like a lot of late bloomers.
	Yeah.
	I think.
	And no judgment to any of the listeners, but yeah, I think a lot of young men are stuck in this time where it's like, yeah, it's almost like you're figuring your shit out, your parents' shit out.
	It's like, it's almost come to like this kind of like curve in the pipe where it's like, we got to kind of figure the shit out in here.
	Yeah, I think that's right.
	And I think it's hard.
	I don't think you can rush it.
	I don't think, I think it happens later because something comes loose.
	It just does.
	It's nothing you can figure out.
	It's nothing where you can go, oh, I mean, you think about it once in a while.
	And also you spend a lot of life avoiding it, right?
	So like my, when I was a young dad and stuff, I just pushed my dad away.
	I just didn't want to think about him.
	So I just decided he doesn't matter anymore for years.
	And like when I was little, I remember he was spanking me once, which is now to me a really odd thing is a man's hand spanking a fucking bare ass of a child with a little bony.
	I can't fathom it now.
	Yeah.
	Put pants on that.
	Yeah, man.
	What are you doing?
	It's really gay and weird and upsetting.
	But I remember being spanked so fucking hard.
	Like it was like blackout spanked.
	Like I can't handle this.
	And I remember thinking to myself, I think I was about nine.
	I thought the day I get a wallet, like that was the magical thing.
	The day I get a wallet with that money in it and cards and that set of keys, the second I have that, I ain't never going to look at this person again in my life.
	I'm getting away from this guy.
	As soon as I have those, that's all you need.
	You had a lot.
	You were really, you were, it really.
	Yeah, I really didn't like being around him.
	And my mother divorced him when I was 10. So then I had a lot of years just with mom where he was around and he would ask for attention sometimes.
	And I didn't, I wasn't afraid of him anymore, but I, but he made me uncomfortable.
	I didn't like being around him.
	There's a lot of good things about my dad, and I owe him a lot.
	Yeah, totally.
	He created you.
	He did, and he also devoted a lot of life to, you know, he was a Mexican and our family in Mexico, they do okay, and they have some influence and they have, you know, he had a better life there, but he moved to America.
	It's sort of the opposite of most immigrants that he went from Mexico where he was pretty well established to America where he had no tools to survive and where he didn't get the culture.
	But he did it because my mom was the strong one in the family.
	My mom worked really hard and she raised us and supported us.
	So he is picking my mom instead of somebody in Mexico.
	And that's how I got to be in the land of opportunity.
	It's interesting.
	It's interesting, man, how a lot of times it's our previous generation had to kind of take an L and had to like really so that you could have it.
	It's hard to imagine.
	Imagine that in your own life.
	I'm going to do something shitty.
	Yeah.
	I'm going to move to Toledo so my son can.
	No, fuck you, kid.
	Good luck.
	I'm going to go to Vegas and just keep trying to win.
	Yeah, I'd rather sell my ass on the internet.
	Yeah, fuck that.
	Take my chances.
	But then I, so I went through years of like not wanting to think about him.
	And then I, once in a while, I would check in with him and see maybe we have something.
	And he'd feel the same.
	And I got him on.
	And he didn't even seem interested sometimes.
	And that was shitty.
	But then, and my mom, meanwhile, took care of him.
	After they divorced, she kept because he was kind of a mess.
	And I learned from that from watching my mom do all the way to the end.
	You know, my mom, when she was dying, she provided for him and stuff.
	And I learned about her from that.
	And I asked her about it.
	I, cause, cause she had no reason to be with the guy anymore.
	They had been divorced since I was 10. And now, you know, this was a few years ago.
	And she said, I want to send a message to him with, she was leaving him some money.
	She said that he's, I want to send him a message that he's not alone in the world.
	Now that I'm gone, somebody gives a shit about him.
	And because that's a promise she made him when she married him.
	And even though they divorced, she still honored that promise, even though he didn't stay to his side or whatever.
	And so that helped me.
	Like I was a, that was a that was a role model for me, my mom, later in life.
	And then after she died, I was about to say left, after she had left, after she left me by ceasing to breathe.
	That's crazy.
	And some guys probably think that.
	Yeah, fuck you, mom.
	I needed you, bitch.
	After she died, my sister and I, who were at her memorial that we had for her, and he came.
	And neither of us had seen him for a long time.
	And we were talking, we were standing in a room talking about where we're going to put him so we don't have to be near him.
	And then he walked up with a cane and we were both like, fuck, come here.
	And we sat with him.
	And then we had this interesting affection for him because mom is gone.
	She would have wanted us to be good to him.
	And he was so weak.
	And he was so, and I just felt bad for him.
	And I felt a tenderness for him.
	So I go to see him once in a while in this place where he lives.
	And the last time I saw him, I just let, I let go of everything.
	It just all went away.
	And now I just feel this tenderness.
	I just feel so sorry, sorry for the guy.
	All that's left, all anger and guilt, all those bad feelings, they burn away with time.
	They all burn away completely.
	And so I'm just left with who's I sort of fascinated by him now.
	I look at when he talks, he struggles to talk and I look at his face and watch it struggle, you know, and I feel, I feel for him, you know.
	Anyway, long answer, sorry.
	No, but it's kind of a beautiful answer.
	It's about how life is, you know, it's like, it's funny when you go back to see like kind of the dragon, whatever the dragon is, and time has affected it and it's changed.
	Yeah, it's all time.
	It's going to, I mean, for your listeners that are struggling with it, it's like you can't rush it.
	And it's okay if you have blocks and stuff.
	I mean, you can trust yourself a little bit.
	You know what I mean?
	You'll get there.
	You'll get there when it's time.
	Yeah, I think I had a lot of like, I was ashamed of my dad a lot, I think, because of his age.
	And so I think I had, for a while, I had some issues with that.
	But even over time, that kind of went away.
	You notice how I would kind of like probably look at him or I would introduce him to people as my grandfather.
	Just little things that it's like, you know, I start to think, well, I wonder how that affected him.
	Or I don't know.
	It's interesting, man.
	I just love all that kind of stuff, like how people relate to one another and especially from our parents growing up.
	Did you wish you had a dad like other kids' dads that were like younger and stronger and more dad-like?
	A little bit, but then like some one dude's, you know, his dad like held up the ready med with a shotgun for pills, you know?
	So it was like my dad just like bought a, my dad bought a cutlass, like a Delta 88. Remember those cars?
	Yeah, sure.
	I remember them well, yeah.
	And pull one up.
	Long car.
	Yeah, it was a, oh yeah, well, he had a long kind of rectangular car, wasn't it?
	Well, he had, yeah, some of the early ones were.
	He had a good LTD too for a while.
	Yeah, those were fucking, they just, that hood, you could just live on that hood.
	It was so warm in there.
	There were always like four cats in there.
	Yeah, sure.
	And they would stay in while we drove somewhere.
	Like, it was like, it was.
	Those cars floated too, man.
	They were comfortable.
	Oh, yeah.
	I loved cars like that.
	Oh, I feel like you get, yeah, six blocks and you're pregnant in that bit.
	Yeah.
	That was a dad car when I was a kid.
	But then when I was in high school, everybody would have those, like kids would have those.
	They'd spray paint them, whatever, you know, with cans of spray paint.
	And they were like badass fucking cars.
	I mean, the bumper is like this thick and it's pure steel.
	It was fucking made of iron, that car.
	Oh, they were so good.
	About three miles to the gallon.
	My dad bought his off a couple like brothers that lived around a corner in our neighborhood.
	And so it had like these big speakers in it, right?
	And so he would drive and he couldn't even hear, right?
	They had like 22s in the trunk.
	And so he would be listening to like Paul Harvey and like whatever that is, NPR or something.
	It was with NPR.
	Or maybe it's just Paul Harvey.
	What is that?
	Yeah, I don't even know who that is.
	Good day.
	Remember that guy on the radio?
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	Okay.
	Or maybe it's like Rush Limbaugh, right?
	Oh, he'd listen to Rush.
	Okay, Rush Limbaugh and NPR are very different.
	Oh, they are?
	So he would listen to Rush Limbaugh or those guys.
	And then it would be like, but it would be with bass, right?
	Like, so he would just be driving around listening to like insane like.
	With a real bottom to it.
	Rush Limbaugh.
	It was unbelievable.
	And he always had like this old, his car was just stacked with just bullshit because he, my dad got this job, like going to, like, he would go to college and sign people up for credit cards, like that guy or whatever.
	Oh.
	And that was one of the first places he would take me there with him.
	When I was like 11 or 12, he even let me drive him because he was fucking like, you know, at that point, he's 82. So, so as soon as I was about like five, maybe six or seven, he let me drive him over there.
	And then I would stand on the table and like bark at people to come over and get the credit card thing.
	And I think maybe that's where some of like my first semblance of like getting on stage or like saying stuff or whatever kind of came from.
	But yeah, that kind of stuff, man.
	I love thinking about growing up and what happened and how it affects us now.
	We had, man, there's one other little story I was going to tell you.
	Let me see if I can think of her for one second.
	Dad and the shot guy held up a store with a shotgun.
	Oh, yeah, dude.
	The other parental role models in our neighborhood, it was pretty bad.
	I wouldn't have traded my dad for other dads.
	I wouldn't have.
	I did like that.
	I do feel lucky that I had a weird dad, that I had an unusual father.
	My mom used to say that.
	He's not boring, you know.
	And it makes you who you are.
	I mean, you're from a, you have a very specific background and a very, very, you know, a very rare upbringing.
	And that's a great thing for you now.
	Right, right, yeah.
	At the time, it felt painful, but now I realize, wow, this was all part of the plan.
	That's right.
	We had that.
	Now, I did admire like that Magnum PI dad with the fucking like, I mean, just the hair coming up around the bottom of the shorts.
	Like the hair was like trying to get back up to his mustache.
	You know, it was like, this hair has a plan.
	Like a fucking dude.
	And we had to go out there and push this one dude, Glenn, his dad, had that big dish, that direct TV dish.
	Oh, yeah, sure.
	We had to push that bitch to get the porn.
	So we'd have to go out there and you had to earn it, you know?
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And we'd have to get that Cinemax and we'd fucking put your shoulder into it or you couldn't come.
	That was the whole thing.
	That's right.
	I remember that Cinemax and that stuff.
	Well, I remember home box office.
	HBO was the first thing.
	And I mean, I don't know.
	How old are you again?
	I'm 42. Okay, so I'm 55. And I remember first there was just television.
	I don't know.
	You probably don't go back that far.
	It was just terrestrial.
	I mean, there was just the antennas?
	Antennas.
	Yeah.
	And no TV got really good reception.
	No TV in the world got a reliable picture.
	I mean, that's the way I remember it.
	It was just always maybe some rich people, but you're still beholden to weather.
	You know, phones didn't sound so good.
	Like, everything was a little wonky.
	And the channels were, you know, whatever different cities, but it was usually like two, four, five.
	And so it was like ABC, CBS, and NBC.
	Right.
	And then Fox came along and it was like, that's interesting.
	And then you have this UHF channels, which was this other dial.
	You'd put your dial that just has seven numbers on you.
	And UHF had like 50 channels that were a different frequency.
	And those were local stations that had like movie, like a lot of them showed the local sports would be there.
	Right.
	In Boston, it was channel 38 was the Red Sox.
	And then they had movie loft where they'd show old movies.
	So that's where you could see stuff like that with thousands of commercials and stuff.
	But then HBO came along and it was a box that you put on top of your television.
	Oh, that's why they call it home box office.
	Yes, home box office.
	And also the idea of like a box office, like you're going to a movie.
	And it had an antenna, I think.
	And it had an it, but it scrambled.
	It brought in a HBO is a scrambled channel and this thing was the decoder.
	I think it was still by antenna at first.
	And they had like dirty movies, violent movies, stand-up comedy with cursing and boxing.
	And it was fucking incredible.
	And then another company called Starcase came along and they were competitors, but they both, and then they had a cable.
	Then it was like, we'll bring it to you in a cable.
	And then cable TV was like everything coming in on this crazy cable, hundreds of channels and all that stuff all at once.
	But that was that thing that HBO did was like, you know, you could see anything here.
	That changed the game.
	Yeah, because otherwise you wait till the movie comes through town.
	There wasn't, you know, and around then, then VCRs started up and then you could get it, you know, those cassettes.
	Yeah, we had VHS as I remember big, you know, we had to ride our height to go get it.
	And they had that porn room.
	Remember the room?
	Sure.
	I worked at a video store.
	Oh, you did?
	When I was a kid, when I was in high school.
	Wow.
	So I got a little overly too quickly exposed.
	Like, I mean, we had a porn room.
	Oh.
	And I would run with the guy that owned the store was just, he just gave me the keys.
	Like, he made me run the store.
	So, yeah, after I would wait, I would like look at the clock waiting for it.
	Like, I just wanted to close.
	So I could open it.
	So I could go in the back room in his office and just fucking jizz everywhere.
	I would have fucking licked the boxes, I think.
	Yeah, it was real.
	It was a lot.
	Oh, I remember seeing some.
	One guy chiseled some tits into a fucking tree in our neighborhood, right?
	Like back in these woods behind our fence.
	He what?
	Had chiseled a fucking set of bangers, homie.
	Some fucking milk muffins, daddy.
	He fucking chiseled a pair.
	You mean like an artist?
	Like he.
	Yeah, like a, I don't know what it's called.
	What's that carpet?
	A pen chisel with the little flathead on it.
	Yeah, I don't know what his tools were or whatever, but this guy was pretty good, I would say, probably.
	And then, but people would go out there and come, you know, it'd be good.
	Oh, you'd see there was porn magazines back there, and it was on this little hill kind of, so it almost had this native, or I think people said it was Native American or something, but I don't know if that's it.
	But you didn't, you knew the guy that did it, though?
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	Amazing.
	Dude, I'll tell you another story about the same guy.
	So he, one time, me and my buddy, this kid Summerall, were walking down the street.
	And it was a tree, though.
	So it was like a living tree.
	Yeah.
	And there was tits on it that he chiseled.
	And folks would come and jack off to it.
	Yeah, I don't know how many folks.
	Yeah, I mean, it wasn't like people with like buses wouldn't stop.
	Yeah, it wasn't like, what do you call it?
	The Graceland or something.
	But if you knew, you knew.
	You know what I'm saying?
	And this was also woods, and people used to go to the woods to jerk off.
	Huh.
	And that was something you'd find.
	I think in any town, you hear people, there's pornography in the woods.
	It used to be people would bury a stack of beauty machines.
	I found a stack of porn.
	That's in the woods.
	That was the first time I ever saw any of that.
	Yeah, and they had an empty, broken washing machine right there, and people would put the porn in there.
	Right.
	And so you'd get to, you know, get your fuck, you know, get that deal out.
	And then.
	Now, the first porn I ever jerked off to was some girl or tits in shorts, and she had gravel all over it because I found it in the dirt.
	Oh, yeah, that magic.
	It's just like pock marks from the gravel.
	Life is sad, buddy.
	Yeah, but it's real, dude.
	Yeah, it is.
	God, and then look, in some cultures, you still find that.
	Yeah.
	So go ahead.
	I don't mean to interrupt you.
	So what?
	No, that was it.
	There would be people, you know, you would ejaculate to that.
	But it was a different time.
	Yeah, people would go into the woods.
	It's almost like, you know, you'd bring it back to nature.
	I mean, my dad, I remember, caught us jerking off one time and made us bury it in the yard, bury the semen in the yard.
	To make it like respectful or something?
	but you would just wait a minute how did he Yeah, yeah.
	Well, I guess it was, there was, it was just me, but I say us, so I don't feel alone, I think.
	I do that a lot.
	Sure.
	That makes sense.
	But so he walked in and you would, you would just come on yourself?
	Yeah.
	Well, my mother caught me.
	And so she went to him and said, he's been jerking off.
	She told him, yeah, she would always kind of rap me out about stuff like that.
	Yeah, but Wes, the jizz doesn't stay.
	And that was it.
	So you just kind of went like that?
	No, no, no, no.
	It was on a sheet.
	Oh, it was on a sheet.
	Okay, so the thing you came on had to be buried.
	That's weird, man.
	And it gave me a kind of an affinity for nature.
	Sure.
	You fucked nature in a sense.
	Oh, dude, I remember my buddy would come over and we would just fucking mount our pillows in the different corners of the room.
	Yeah, when you teenage, well, pre-teen boys, when they start, pre-teen, yeah.
	There is, there is like a camaraderie in that stuff.
	Yeah.
	I had a friend who used to, we used to tell each other stories about girls, like I'd sleep over his house, and he'd sleep on his bed, I'd sleep on the floor, and we called it telling each other juicers.
	That's what we called it, juicer.
	So, like, he would tell me, he'd say, you know, pick a girl, and I'd say, you know, Gretchen.
	Yeah.
	And he'd say, okay, so you, you and Gretchen are in school and, you know, you're like, you decide to walk home together.
	And you go to her house and he'd just walk me through this story for us.
	Good.
	And then I'd do it for him with whatever girl he wanted.
	Oh, I can't even imagine.
	Y'all did that for each other?
	Yeah, we did.
	It was, yeah.
	And I don't think.
	That's awesome.
	I don't know if we were coming yet.
	I think it was just about squeezing it and getting this, like, getting this feeling and just listening to what he's saying.
	And just, it didn't occur to us that, I mean, we were talking about girls.
	We didn't feel weird about it.
	We were good friends, you know.
	I liked him.
	He was a good kid.
	Sounds like it.
	Yeah, he was, you know, it's something you do for a buddy.
	Dude, if I laid on a bunk bed right now and another man laid on the floor and told me a, took me through like a good story, I'd probably appreciate it.
	It's so much more real than having to just jerk off to something you see on a screen.
	Yeah, that's no good.
	I think that's one of the things that I miss.
	Yeah.
	Dude, I remember when I first got an erection, I thought it was poop coming out of the front.
	And I remember being so scared.
	And I told this teacher, and then I think the teacher might have been like a gay man.
	And so then I got this totally weird reaction from him.
	But I remember thinking that poop was coming out of my, like it had gotten lost.
	Whoa.
	And that's what the erection was.
	That's a terrifying thought.
	Oh, dude.
	Because then I was afraid to go pee because I was like, it's going to smell bad.
	Oh, my God.
	That's terrifying.
	You know, I'm on it.
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	You know, starting off the new year with some attainable goals is what I try to do.
	I want something attainable.
	I want to drink more water.
	I want to budget better.
	You know, I want to set aside some time where if I want to have a candy, I'm going to have a candy.
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	No, I grew up in a house, like we had half a house.
	we rented the bottom half of a house.
	So it's just all one level with rooms off of the...
	I had three sisters and my mom.
	And so when I kind of came online, it was hard to hide it because I was just in my room and whatever stuff was going on.
	And they all kind of became aware of it.
	And that was horrifying to me.
	It was horrifying that my mom and sisters were like aware that I think I heard them say, oh, he's, well, that's what my mom likes was just cheerfully saying, well, boys have to touch their penises.
	Leave them alone.
	And she's like, and I'm like, stop, mom.
	Because my mom was just too nice, you know?
	Like she, I had Playboys hidden, like hidden as hard as I could hide them.
	Oh, yeah.
	In under my bed, I found a way to put them in the slats or whatever.
	But I was a boy, so sometimes I would just jerk off and then just leave the room.
	And so one day I came home and my mom had cleaned my room and she stacked my Playboys for me, like stacked them nicely.
	And I was, it was just an acknowledgement of my sexuality that I did not, I was not okay with.
	It was horrible.
	I appreciate it now.
	Yeah.
	But man, that's so interesting.
	Yeah, it's like our sexuality, we don't, we, it really is, it's yours.
	And it's like kind of the only thing that you, especially like in American culture, you know, it's very hidden.
	It's like, I don't know, it's the only thing that I had.
	Like I remember, yeah, I don't know, whatever you're saying, it kind of makes me feel something.
	It's like, that's my thing.
	I think I felt a lot in the world.
	Like I didn't have a, like everything else was up to someone else.
	Right.
	Like the environment I was put into, the family I had to live with, the financial circumstance, the, you know, pediophiles or whatever in our area.
	All of that shit was somebody else's doing, you know?
	But this thing is mine, you know?
	That's a very profound thing you're saying.
	It's very true.
	And so I think, because I've always had a tough time with like sexual connection, you know, like in my 20, I couldn't even, like, I had like so much sexual anxiety in my 20s, it was like hard to even engage, you know?
	So it was like, but man, yeah, it's just interesting to hear that kind of stuff.
	Yeah, because then you have, you take this, you discover this thing and it is yours in a wilderness, in a world, like you're saying.
	I think it's like that for any kid that age.
	And then you have this weird task of taking that into the world and offering it to somebody else and bringing it to their mind and combining it.
	And that's very scary.
	And everybody has a hard time with that.
	I think.
	I think that's fundamentally why people have like societally, societally issues with sex and why there's always sexual puritanicalism comes from one place or another.
	Yeah.
	Is because everyone has, is just not sure how to handle that thing because it's so tender.
	It's like a very like I did once, and it's not something I talk about a lot because it's very private for me, but I did the psychedelic drug like therapy once, you know, like treatment with like ketamine?
	No, it was MDMA.
	And I did it with mushrooms too, but I put on, you know, blindfolded.
	So it's not like Molly where you're at a party or something, but I went in deep and I saw this version of my sexuality, which was like, I saw myself as this baby, like floating in space, kind of, like with nothing around.
	And then not directly from the dick part, but kind of like the umbilical cord, like somewhere in between was this like purple like cord.
	And I saw it as kind of like a lifeline, but also an outgoing thing, you know?
	And I saw it as like incredibly fragile.
	And like, if you could have taken a bow from a violin and rung on it, it would have like made a crazy, like, you know, this sorrowful sound.
	Like it was just like, and I saw it as like this deep want, but also something ancient about it.
	Like to be, I thought, and the thought I had in my head was you need to respect that and you need to pity it like at the same time.
	Wow.
	It helped me a lot to look at it that way and to see it as something that just be careful with that.
	It comes from a very deep longing, but also a weird wisdom.
	Like there's so much shit mixed in that.
	Yeah.
	And it's so like you passed out the first time that you encountered it.
	It's like it's just so much and you're giving it as a boy, as a fucking boy.
	You're going, here it is.
	Here's the craziest thing in the whole world and it's yours now.
	But it is.
	It's yours.
	So yeah, I mean, to take that and combine it with somebody else and say, I want to share this with you.
	That is big stuff, man.
	And most people wear a lot of armor when they do it.
	Yeah.
	They wear a lot of armor.
	They would do a lot of, they become somebody else kind of people sexually a little bit, or you, you play role or you do something to come at it in a way that you know you're going to survive it and be okay and be, you know what I mean, but satisfy it.
	It's untanglable.
	It's a fucking mess for everybody.
	Wow.
	It is.
	It is untanglable.
	Yeah, I had a girl just kind of break up with me recently.
	I just started kind of dating and we just kind of started and she fucking shut it down.
	But I remember being, yeah, thanks, man.
	I remember being like, the part that kind of upset me the most was I told her that I liked her.
	And it was like, it was just so much risk in that for me.
	Like admitting that I, yeah, for some reason there was just so much vulnerability around that.
	Like I'm going to say, I like you.
	Cause I was afraid that the truth would be that she didn't like me.
	And I think it goes back to some of those like this kind of pain that's not even, I don't even know if it's mine, but it's just been in my fucking cyst, in my DNA or somewhere that, yeah, you're going to share.
	You're going to say, here I am.
	And somebody's going to say, not today, right?
	You can sip out the cream.
	It's weird because you're comic because I don't have, I don't, that I don't have.
	I don't, I love telling women I like them.
	Really?
	I love it.
	Wow.
	And I, since I was a kid, I was like that.
	When I started liking girls, I walk up to them and say, you're just beautiful and you're great.
	And I want to go out with you or whatever.
	And then I, in junior high school, before I'd ever kissed a girl, I learned a thing, which was that all the hottest girls, the top shelf girls, they'll talk to you.
	They like people.
	You know what I mean?
	Like they'd be aloof if you're trying to pick them up.
	But I started making friends with them and I got to know them really well.
	Like I talk on the phone for hours with like the hottest girls.
	And I just liked being near them.
	I just liked knowing them, you know?
	And I would tell them, like, I would tell them I'm attracted to them, but I accepted that it wasn't, you know, just I wasn't in the market, you know, in the marketplace.
	But I never, it never bothered me the thing of telling, I like it.
	If I meet a woman I like, I kind of want, I have to, I had to learn how to slow down and not tell her too soon.
	I want to tell her right away.
	Yeah.
	I want to tell her before I meet her.
	I want to literally send out a mail now.
	Yeah, yeah.
	You just want to say, hey, I want you.
	I like you.
	You're great.
	This thing about your face, particularly the way you walk.
	Yeah.
	Because that admiration is just a huge, huge thing.
	Yeah.
	But it never bothered me to be rejected.
	Never bothered me.
	Wow.
	That's nice.
	Because most women, even the snottiest women, would be nice about it.
	You know, if you go up to the head cheerleader and like, you want to be my girlfriend?
	She's like, no.
	She's like, give me an N. Give me an O. You don't get her, but, you know, you get to have a moment with her.
	That's true, dude.
	Yeah, there was nothing better than like making a beautiful girl laugh.
	That was always like, if you could do that.
	That's big.
	It was like, what?
	This is a way that I can get to women somehow.
	Like, this is a way, this is the only way I have to.
	It's like, you know, I think there's something in that.
	We're all just trying to use some way to get to one another, you know?
	That's right.
	It's natural.
	It's how you figure out what's good about you and then you put it out there.
	You go, here's my thing.
	Shocking.
	Yeah, like the angler fish that has a glowing, he's got a thing and it glows.
	That's lure.
	Oh, it is?
	Deep sea angler fish.
	It's the ugliest fish in the world.
	I think it's called a deep sea angler.
	And he's got a little stick on his head with a glowing thing on it.
	And it's a waiter?
	Yeah, he lures chicks.
	Oh, yeah.
	That's actually the woman.
	So what happens is crazy.
	What's fascinating, I just saw this the other night on a show.
	That fish floats around with that thing on her head.
	And the dude is really small.
	The dude is like the size of like her jaw.
	And the dude sees that and also gets this smell.
	She puts a smell in the water and he follows her and he sees the light.
	And these folks live in total darkness.
	They can't see.
	They're so below the surface.
	There's no light.
	And they're still coming down there?
	They're still down there having a fight.
	Yeah.
	So she floats around just like this with those fucked up eyes in the dark.
	And this dude sees, when he sees that glow, like he's in darkness.
	And then he sees that glow and he's like, pussy, like pussy.
	And it's the odds are so low for him.
	Because if he's not a fucking great swimmer, he sees the glow, but then he watches it fade and he's fucked and he dies.
	But the best of the anglerfishes is how they select.
	He can get to it.
	And he smells, he uses the smell and the light.
	And then he latches himself.
	He's got teeth that latch onto her belly.
	And he keeps biting and biting and she fights him because she only wants the best.
	Yes.
	Exactly.
	Like Marv Albert biting that ass.
	He didn't know what he really was, you know?
	And then he finally latches on and then his face becomes part of her belly and they fuse.
	What?
	And then he's fused to her by the mouth for the rest of his life.
	And where's this happening in Vegas?
	I mean, you could get anything in Vegas.
	No, that's fucking.
	But then her bloodstream is feeding him.
	No.
	And she eats, she does life.
	And it goes into him.
	And he just sits there and comes.
	He just constantly comes out of his mouth into her belly and gets food back.
	And he's done.
	He's like, I don't need a fucking thing.
	This is, yeah, like the ultimate fucking, that kind of guy who finds a woman and latches.
	He just latches on.
	And they need that lifelong connection because it's so hard to find each other.
	Because of the darkness.
	Yeah.
	So she can't, because she can't keep looking for new guys.
	So this is it for them.
	God, dude.
	That's honestly one of the most romantic things I've ever heard.
	This is weird.
	Beautiful, right?
	But it's that glow.
	So I don't remember.
	Yeah, so everybody's got their, you got whatever your glow is, you figure out this is my thing.
	And you put it out in the world, whatever it is.
	No, and laughing, making girls laugh is I remember being in at some party in high school with kids.
	I always felt like everybody was cooler than me, but these were dudes that were like with girls and everybody was cool.
	And I was just kind of, I was starting to do drugs.
	Yeah.
	And I was starting to get cynical and not like stuff.
	And I was starting to get kind of crabby about life.
	Which has worked out well for you.
	It has.
	And so these girls, really cute girls, were with these guys and they were all and they're all being dudes.
	They're like wearing shirts that show off their shoulders and they're tanned.
	And their shoes fit.
	Yeah, perfectly.
	And they're like cool dudes.
	And they're starting to get a little sensual, like, you know, getting into like their haircuts are a little 80s and stuff.
	And they're all talking.
	And one of them said something like, I don't remember the words, but he said something like this, like impressive.
	Yeah.
	And I said like, something like this, like, fuck you.
	Like, yeah, whatever, buddy.
	But I said it well.
	And the two girls died laughing.
	Like they were, they had tears.
	They were like, oh my God, because I just destroyed the dude that they kind of wanted.
	Yeah, Bryce.
	Yes, Bryce got fucking.
	And Bryce looked at me like, what just happened?
	No, none of the dudes understood what just happened.
	Who's this wizard?
	Yeah, and I was standing.
	They were all sitting in a circle.
	I was standing above them.
	And I remember looking down at these girls and going, I have a fucking power that none of these guys have.
	Like, I just made them come.
	Wow.
	And there's no way you guys have made these girls come yet.
	Everybody's like 17, you know.
	Yeah.
	But there is that feeling when you're on stage, you see like a guy and a girl and the girl's just crumpled and you're like, I'm fucking your girlfriend right in front of you.
	Yeah.
	It is.
	That's a win.
	Yeah.
	It is.
	That's a win.
	Yeah.
	It's like you have to get seen somehow.
	You have to get, I'm trying to think of, I would do it.
	I, I got people to laugh because I didn't trust the world very much.
	And so I knew if people were laughing that they couldn't not like me and be laughing at the same time.
	It was like this moment of solace.
	Like, yes, it feels, I recognize that feeling.
	Yeah.
	It's like I could take a moment.
	I want to talk about your movie.
	I want to talk about your show from last night.
	I have to pee really fast.
	Yeah, I'll pee too if you're going to pee it.
	Yeah, dude.
	Dude, the show was awesome, man.
	Oh, last night you came to my show.
	Yeah.
	Thanks, man.
	Man, it is, yeah.
	You are a, I mean, it is, I felt like I felt like I left out of there with like shit on my shoes, kind of, but it was your shit.
	I didn't mean to shit on your shoes.
	It's not the I know you didn't, but that's what I was a comedian, fellow comedians.
	Yeah, I know what you mean.
	How long have you been doing it now?
	I've been doing it maybe 18 years, I think.
	Oh, that's not very long at all.
	Is that true when you say that?
	Yeah, that's a really short amount of time.
	I mean, you really, you got it all ahead of you.
	Yeah, I'm starting to feel like that.
	I realize that I need to get out.
	Like, I love telling stories, so I love telling stories.
	And like Jerry Clower is like my favorite comedian.
	I don't know if you're familiar with him, but he was like, he's one of the best-selling comedians ever, like of albums and stuff.
	But he was like the Southern, he was like this kind of Southern storyteller.
	But I love that kind of stuff.
	But that's him right there.
	Yeah, I know that face.
	Yeah.
	So he, but yeah, I walked out and I was like, Jesus Christ, who am I anymore?
	This is what I felt like walking out of your show.
	Like, are my beliefs intact?
	I remember even going like this when I walked out.
	Yeah.
	What gives you a kick when you're up there?
	Like, do you find like, is it still the humor that gives you the kick?
	Is it an uncomfortability?
	Is it like a control?
	Do you have any sense of that kind of?
	I think it's a lot of things all at once.
	It's probably why I like it because there's a shitload of things firing at the same time.
	You know, it's a lot, but I'm in control of it.
	And in the ways that I'm not are exciting.
	It's like sailing in a way.
	It's like I know how to do all this stuff, but I'm still, you know, the wind's still coming.
	And I'm like, ah.
	And I'm healing a little.
	And I'm like, I don't know, guys.
	But I've been, I've also got that veteran kind of, I've seen this.
	I've seen this.
	I know how this goes.
	And the, you know, some shows are more fun than others.
	The night before I shot this last night for a special.
	That's right.
	And that's coming out when?
	Like, probably February.
	But I'm doing the Madison Square Garden at the end of this month on January 20th.
	And I'm live streaming that show on my website.
	And people will be able to buy it there.
	Yes.
	They'll be able to buy the show and watch it for like 10 days.
	And I'm taking it down.
	I just want to share that night.
	Wow.
	Because I used to play the garden all the time.
	I haven't been there in years.
	And I don't want to return to that, to that.
	I don't want to be an arena comic.
	I don't like the kind of pro circuit thing anymore.
	I just want to do stand-up because I love it.
	But I got back there and we sold it out.
	I'm doing it in the round.
	I'm standing in the center.
	And so I want to just do it that one night so I can really appreciate it for what it is.
	Because when I used to do it a lot, it was like I just take the subway and do the garden.
	And there's a sadness that I didn't see how great that was.
	And now I understand how great it was to have that opportunity.
	So coming back there, I'm calling that special Back to the Garden.
	And so folks can live stream it, watch it during the show.
	Wow.
	And then I'll leave it up for like 10 days just to stream.
	But then it'll come down and go away.
	What I shot last night is it'll be the same material, but that's the special for this year.
	And that'll go on your website.
	That'll go on the website for 10 bucks.
	Yeah.
	So, dude, yeah, I would come.
	Yeah, anybody, I like, I think I would maybe watch it again.
	And that's insane for somebody to say these days watch anything again.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	But because there's so many things, it's like, it really is just so many levels of what's going on.
	I worked hard on this show.
	But anyway, so the night before we did two nights, because when you do a special, so I did Saturday night, and that was fucking cream puff.
	That was just like being massaged.
	It just felt so good.
	Like, I just felt like it was easy.
	And I'm just like, I'm on this one.
	I'm like, like a kind of surfer who touches the water wall while he's in there.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, not the guy who's like this, but the guy who's like, he's just doing this on the on the, while he's in the tube, you know?
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	He's kind of like caressing, just touching the nipple of the ocean, you know?
	Like, that's what Saturday night felt like.
	And everything was just, I didn't have to think about anything.
	And it was the, the perfect thing for me is when I'm really feeling the things I'm saying.
	100%.
	I'm not in my head about how's this show going?
	What comes next?
	How do I say this is the pace good?
	I'm really thinking like, here's what I feel about Jesus.
	Like, and I really feel it.
	And it was, it just was sublime and great.
	And last night was not as easy.
	Like, and coming off of that was hard.
	That's hard too, because you can't, yeah, you can't replicate the, you can't cheat your brain to know that you weren't on that.
	No, you can't.
	On that high.
	You can't.
	And you, and you have to, I mean, it all comes with experience.
	So some early times in my life, a great show could ruin a bad show because the bad one, I just go, what, where are you?
	What happened?
	But once you know, like to me, it's like the show is going to be as good no matter what.
	I'm going to get the same outcome every single show.
	The difference is going to be how much, how do I have to work for it?
	You know, how hard do I, so last night it was like, all right, you fucks.
	And I had to really more, I felt like I had to really try harder.
	And probably when I edit it, the second show will probably be the better show for watching because it's not fun to watch a comedian be like, hey man, this is great.
	It's not the comfort of a comedian is not funny.
	Yeah, it's watching the guy test the water to see if it's cold.
	It's not as much as the guy sitting in the hot tub.
	That's right.
	But the thing I guess one of the things I love is going places, because there's some places where you know the laughs are.
	There's some places we know everybody laughs at.
	And it's fun to say those things and be good at them and get the laughs that you knew were coming.
	But I like taking people places where they don't even like to think about it.
	They don't even like to, let alone talk about it or let alone hear about it in a show.
	No.
	But I know what's going to come.
	I know it's going to be okay.
	So I don't, I'm okay with, there's great power as a comedian and being okay with uncomfortable feelings, with being okay with that you just brought something up and they're like, fuck, and that it gets tight in there.
	And to know that that tightness is useful and that there's a place to take that.
	And then when they start to calm down a little bit, they're like, I don't even know where I am now.
	This is a weird, this, you see it in their faces, like, like, I've Never laughed at this before.
	And so now I'm in a new place in my mind.
	That's, I think, a very powerful thing about comedy.
	Yeah.
	Because it's an opportunity to say stuff that's not appropriate.
	That's not all of comedy is on some level of saying something you shouldn't have said.
	It's either you're saying something because it's too private, like it's too, you're over-sharing, or which people love that you're just going to, I'm going to tell you this fucked up.
	You do that a lot.
	Just like, I'm going to tell you something really personal.
	Yeah, you need to know that.
	So you shouldn't have said that because usually in real, in a real regular conversation or in politics or whatever, you don't say things like that.
	The other you shouldn't have said is because it's so stupid.
	Just a stupid thing.
	Everybody knows that's not true.
	What are you saying?
	The other one is that's fucking crazy.
	That's crazy.
	That doesn't make any sense.
	These are all different kinds of humor, but they're all based in saying something you shouldn't have said.
	And then the other one is like, man, that's not cool.
	That's not cool to say that.
	Nobody likes that.
	That makes people mad.
	And then there's just like, that's wrong.
	That's, that's morally wrong to say that.
	Yeah.
	And all of those things, if you can take people to those places, which are all fear places, fear of intimacy, fear of the insane, which is an interesting kind of fear, you know, fear of truth or fiction, you know, and fear of castigation by the masses, you know, and fear of morality, of badness.
	If you can take people to those places and make them laugh, make them happy to be there, make them feel like this is okay, then suddenly they're there safely.
	And that's expanding where you're willing to go with your mind, you know, because these are just, this is a cage, you know, and it keeps you from seeing life.
	There's so much to life outside of what you're supposed to be thinking about.
	That's a narrow trip, man.
	So either way, the trip, life is short.
	So if you could do short, narrow, or you can do short, broad.
	I mean, it's a little highfalutin, but it's how I feel about it.
	No.
	It's honestly how I feel about doing stand-up.
	It makes sense hearing you say that and watching you.
	And sometimes also it's just joke.
	It's just, I love the mechanics of jokes.
	Yeah.
	I love like, I just got a new fucking joke.
	Oh, there's nothing better, dude.
	It's literally like pulling something out of your ass and getting everybody to smell it and they like it.
	And they like it.
	And now you're like, I have this.
	Yeah.
	I always think of it as going healed, you know, like in the old West.
	Like when I, once I have a set, like after I put this special out, it'll be, I'll be, I'll be fucking naked again.
	I'll have nothing.
	Yeah.
	But when you go back to the club and start getting done, you got a set together and you put the gun belt on.
	Like, I can go anywhere now.
	You know, it's just, there is, there is a power rush to it, I think, also.
	And it makes me feel proud of myself.
	Like, I used to think for some comedians, it's about love.
	It's about feeling accepted and loved.
	But for me, it's not that really because I feel weird about that.
	I feel weird when I feel like when people stand up or they show a lot of adulation.
	I don't know what to do.
	Like it's not comfortable.
	It doesn't make sense.
	That doesn't feel human.
	Oh, that's interesting.
	I can relate to that.
	Yeah.
	What I feel that's the big thing up there is like I'm doing, I'm so good.
	I'm good at this.
	I'm nailing this.
	I'm making them happy.
	Everybody's happy.
	The show's good.
	That's just, I mean, that's very satisfying.
	You're making something good.
	Yeah, it's very satisfying, you know, and I get better and better at it.
	I tried something I didn't think would work, you know?
	Like when I keep notes in the beginning of a, when I'm starting to build a set, there's always a section that's like long shots, you know, stuff that's never going to work.
	Do you have long shots?
	Jesus.
	I mean, that's well, the thing is, those long shots, like things that when I first did them, the bottom would feel like, oh, the crowd's like, no.
	And I'm like, this is one.
	This one's going to be hard.
	But every long shot I ever did ended up being the big bits.
	Wow.
	Those end up being the solid killer never fails, the memorable great bits.
	Yeah.
	The bits that I'd start with that were like, this is, that's a slam dunk.
	That's a slam dunk.
	They start fading as the set gets more mature.
	Because you don't love them as much.
	No.
	I mean, you like them.
	Yeah, they're whores.
	But they're not fucking wedding right now.
	They're fucking whores.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, you're all right, but you know, come over if I don't get anybody else.
	Yeah.
	Wow, dude.
	Yeah.
	I could totally understand that.
	I could see how, yeah, it's about, it's interesting that it's not about the affection.
	It's about getting, creating something that makes you feel pride in yourself.
	Yeah, it's pride in yourself.
	I mean, it's a little more self-love than it is love from them.
	Yeah.
	I guess.
	But that's okay.
	That's what we need.
	You know, I mean, we're all just trying to like find some way to, you know, to feel okay.
	Yeah, I've noticed, I just started telling more jokes, like talking more about Jews and stuff in my set a little bit.
	Like, cause I've always just been a freak because in LA, you can't even say the word it feels like.
	Like you just feel scared.
	I'm scared just now when you said it.
	Yeah.
	I just didn't have any Jewish people by us growing up.
	So to me, it's just like, but my Jewish friends are like, dude, this fucking shit is great.
	It's like, but for so long, I was just so scared to even.
	Well, here's why your Jewish friends like it because they never hear it.
	And the thing is, the best way for people to get to know each other is to hear the voice of somebody who finds they're alienated from a group and talking about them.
	Like, like I remember years ago, Tracy Morgan, I don't want to get him rein trouble, whatever.
	Oh, he'll find a way.
	Yeah.
	He did a joke about if his son was gay.
	And he said, I'm going to love him if my son is gay.
	I'm going to love him like any father loves any son.
	But if he comes in the room and is like, hey, daddy, I'm going to stab that little f ⁇ in the throat all day.
	I know I just caused 70 problems.
	But the bit was so brutal.
	And he got, he was like an early version of like, you can't say that.
	And he had to go to like homeless gay centers and listen to people that were, you know, suffering.
	And he had to go on a big apology tour.
	And they, and they shut him down.
	And I thought that was a shame because there's such an opportunity in that.
	He's telling you what it's like to be him where he's from.
	And by the way, he's describing a conflict.
	I'm going to love my son, but I don't know how I'm going to handle him acting effeminate because my community, my community doesn't honor that and they think that is weakness.
	And yet I'm working and living in Hollywood where he's probably met gay people who he looks up to now.
	So that's why he's got a conflict now.
	Totally.
	So the way he dealt with the conflict is with comedy by punching through it with a funny, brutal phrase.
	And there's so much to that, there's so much to be learned from that.
	And for it, it'll help people on both sides.
	Do you know what I mean?
	Yeah.
	So, it's for it's fun to watch people that don't know a group talk about that group.
	Yeah, because that's how you see that.
	That's how you see them, huh?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, man, that's how I see him.
	I mean, that's where I came from.
	It's exotic.
	Yeah.
	That's the joy of everything.
	That's the gives me any fucking excitement in the world.
	Like, I love thinking, like, I grew up in a black, white environment.
	So I love thinking about race and how it interacts and just the surprises.
	And I love that kind of shit.
	It's what even made me want to get people to laugh sometimes was if you could get black and white people to laugh.
	It was like, you know, fucking Elizabeth Taylor, dude.
	Like you were.
	That is the best thing.
	Good.
	No, and you need more of both for it to work.
	Like, if there's one black guy in the room, nobody white will laugh at a race joke.
	But if there's 50 black people in the room, they'll laugh and then everybody's laughing.
	Yeah.
	You got to bring 49 other black people yourself.
	When I worked at...
	At least you know that.
	See, that's the power of the experience right there.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Let's cut bait with that one.
	But I got to tell you something because last night, so you know the feeling when you do, like, I don't know what level you work at with stand-up.
	Like, what's a room you would work around here?
	Like, do you do theaters and stuff?
	Theaters, yeah.
	So, but the comedy store, but I mean, yeah, like, I'll do a couple thousand seat venue probably.
	Okay.
	So when you do a big show that's like a concert, right?
	It leaves me feeling this very dry feeling.
	Like there's adrenaline in my system, which is uncomfortable.
	But also now I'm alone.
	Like suddenly you're backstage, you're alone.
	Yeah, it's very strange.
	Yeah, they're all couples.
	I mean, I don't, some guys travel with an entourage, people that keep them warm.
	I don't do that.
	Yeah.
	So I have opening acts, but everybody's off in couples and groups having fun and you're alone all of a sudden.
	So I'm always left with this fucking, and last night I felt it a lot because I had to put a lot of pressure on last night's show because I needed to clean up anything I didn't do right night one and it's for the special, you know?
	Right.
	So I was cranky and tired and exhausted.
	And I went back to the hotel.
	I felt like shit.
	And I thought, well, I'm doing this guy's podcast.
	I don't, I don't really know your work.
	Yeah.
	Like I know who you are.
	I just automatically respect that you're successful because I know how hard comedy is.
	But I thought, I don't know.
	I should hear his voice.
	So I'm kind of ready for bed.
	I don't want to do anything, but I put my phone on iTunes.
	I found one of your albums.
	It's like a picture of your face as a kid.
	And what the fuck is it called?
	Oh, yeah.
	I want to say what it is because.
	What is this where Zach can help?
	This is.
	Wait, Talon's.
	No, sorry.
	Musket Fire?
	Musket Fire.
	So I put on Musket Fire as I'm kind of getting ready for bed.
	And Jesus Christ.
	I mean, I was looking for something to like, maybe I could pay him a compliment on something.
	You know what I mean?
	I just want to be respectful and know who he is.
	And I was laughing so fucking hard.
	I was just out.
	I don't know how long it's been since a comedian has done that to me.
	I was just laughing my ass off.
	It's also a really good album.
	Like it sounds good.
	And it's, I don't know if this is what years this stuff is from.
	It's probably from a few years back.
	Yeah, you're like hungry.
	You're like a hungry comic, but you're so, I mean, I'm just looking at the track list so I can remember the bits.
	The thing, I mean, where the where the title comes from, where you said about your father being 70. Oh, yeah.
	And that you were the only sperm.
	Yeah.
	And that you had to like shut the window.
	You had to close up the nuts.
	Yeah.
	And then you passed to like a skeleton sperm.
	You had to sweep up.
	Sweep the floors.
	Oh, my God.
	It was so fucking funny.
	And then this story about Brad Pitt.
	I mean, you have a shitload of weapons.
	You have like, you know, like, I think of comedians as pitchers sometimes.
	Like, some guys have a fastball.
	Yeah.
	Some guys are closers, so they just come with heat, you know?
	And other guys have, they can protect their fastball with off speed stuff.
	You know what I mean?
	I mean, you have long stories that you tell that are dizzying.
	I don't know how you come up with it.
	It's like, and every story has, it's like a Christmas tree with so many ornaments.
	Oh, thanks.
	But then also when you're just doing straight ahead observation about life and sex and whatever, just talking generally, which is two things for comics, is speaking about their experience and their feelings and their experience is one thing.
	But then the other one is like, here's how I see the world.
	And you do both with like a fucking, it's strong as fuck.
	I mean, thanks, man.
	Then I listened to the other album, the hamsters in the back.
	Oh, yeah.
	You called it Louisiana Ivory or something like that, right?
	Oh, yeah, the ivory of Arkansas.
	Yeah, because they busted a guy with hamster bones in our town.
	Yeah, and you figured out it must have been like 2,000 hamsters or something.
	We had to have a lot.
	And this story where you're in bathing suits with your friend, we're in wet bathing suits surrounding a bunch of monkeys in Wendy's parking lot, which is a poem of a sentence.
	Is there any truth to that story that really happened?
	Yeah, that happened.
	Because our town was where...
	That's nice of you.
	Sure.
	It'll probably one of the best compliments I ever get.
	Well, it was shocking.
	I was like, how do I not, how have I never heard this guy?
	Yeah.
	Fucking great.
	Thank you.
	Well, it's crazy how we just don't get, you know, some people you don't know about people.
	Yeah.
	You know?
	Yeah.
	Well, comedians are single.
	We're not even like tennis players that are one-on-one.
	We're just one.
	Right.
	We're like kings on the chessboard, you know, you know, I can't, you can't sit on it side by side squares.
	Yeah, it's, yeah, that's really interesting.
	You kind of just marvel from afar.
	Yeah.
	Which I think in a weird way is how I've always connected with people anyway is just this space.
	Yeah.
	There needs to be this space, you know, to have a connection.
	So getting even closer, even more vulnerable, even with comedy and stuff is a thing that's like, that's one thing I'm watching you.
	I'm like, Jesus Christ, how what part of this dude is even talking?
	Like, how is this guy speaking from the bottom of a fucking wishing well of himself?
	Like, where are what?
	Like, you're, and it's like, I don't even know what part of me is listening to you.
	It's like, it's like a fucking violent baby that likes to fuck.
	And, and he, he's front row and he has no diaper on, but he's fucking right there.
	And I'm like, where has he been?
	I didn't know he was in me.
	And then I see couples watching you.
	Yeah.
	And I'm like, does Louis, I almost feel like he marvels at their ride home in the car.
	Yeah, I do think about that.
	Yeah.
	That's what I do.
	I do.
	How does the, what do the groups say to each other?
	What do two guys say to each other?
	You know, because that's hard for people to talk about something like that after, I think.
	They don't want to be the first to say they liked it or didn't like it.
	Yeah.
	Some people don't like me in my audience.
	I can see it.
	I see faces of people going like, this isn't that cool, man.
	And they came.
	I appreciate that they came.
	Like, I used to think, like, why the fuck are you here then?
	Well, because if you need to look at a bunch of faces just loving you, but it's interesting to look at people that are just like, you know, and it's interesting to me that they came.
	That they came to see what.
	It's a goes to something that they don't want to.
	It's like going to a fire, but being like, kind of like.
	Yeah.
	People do.
	People like to, they want to see.
	They want to see.
	That's, I think that's different about comedy than music.
	Wow.
	Music, you're a fan.
	Otherwise, you don't waste your time.
	But when a comedian gets bigger, I think there are people who are like, well, I want to find out.
	I don't like him or I haven't, I don't like what I've heard.
	Yeah.
	But, and there's also people that I used to have it more, but you see that there's people who just came because you're, you're, you're a name.
	Right.
	And they really didn't pay attention.
	And some of those people are horrified.
	You know, I mean, at the height of my career, I had people, I could see people leave because they're like, I didn't know he was going to talk about any of this shit.
	And it was weird because the build up to it is just only people who loved what I did.
	It's a, when you get at the first stage of getting notoriety is only devoted fans who love what you do telling their friends.
	And that grows exponentially, but it's still people they only tell a friend they know will like it.
	So you have just a perfect crowd for a while.
	Oh, yeah.
	But then if you get more popular, people start coming because they heard about you.
	You start being more accidentally noticed.
	Yeah, people want to yell.
	Sometimes people just want to come and yell.
	Yeah, they just want to be at a thing.
	So you're starting to get more kind of like casual fans and they don't, and they're not fun.
	They're not into it.
	Yeah.
	And it starts to get, you feel the weight, it starts getting heavy.
	You start getting, the whole thing gets a little waterlogged.
	I think it happens to every comedian.
	I think, and there's a couple of couple of few years of my career where I felt like I was starting to get a little shitty because I just wasn't, I was losing my bearings, you know.
	That's fascinating, man.
	It really is.
	It's interesting to hear because, yeah, I've had experiences where it's like you get so many fans and podcasts and help create that.
	Yeah.
	And this other alternative world, you know, like, because you were, you had a, I mean, one thing that you'll be able to say for yourself, I think, even as a human, by the time you get to the end of your life, is you've gotten to have almost every experience.
	You think so?
	I think so.
	You've gotten to have a lot of them.
	Did you, it seemed.
	I mean, I don't know about all your experiences, but you've gotten to have success.
	You've had success like in the mainstream version.
	Yes.
	And then this other version, and I don't want, and I'm paraphrasing myself because I don't know exactly what I'm saying, but this other version of success, like kind of in this alternative vert, in this, you know, do it straight to your fans, straight to consumer.
	The movie, the 4th of July, like, dude, unbelievable.
	I was sitting there sending Joe List messages like, dude, you are so fucking good.
	He's good, right?
	Oh, and it just captures who he is so much.
	It's like, how do we get this special piece of Joe that's like just so like perfect, you know?
	That was the exercise, yeah.
	I mean, it was, it was awesome.
	It made me inspire.
	It just, I can't believe you guys nailed the ability to capture everyone.
	But you've gotten to have, and we'll talk about 4th of July in a second.
	But you have everything now through your website.
	But what has that been like?
	Because you had this mainstream success that is very glitzy and glamoury.
	And it's like a lot of us chose podcasting because there wasn't that opportunity there.
	So this alternative universe kind of was created.
	What has one been like and the other been like?
	Well, I mean, I had first so many years of just struggling, you know, like I started when I was just 18. I think the first time I ever did it, I was 17, but I started really trying at 18 in 1985.
	It's a long fucking time ago.
	It's 38 years now.
	But from 1985 and when I was 18 until I was, you know, I was a Boston comedian for years, just trying and failing.
	And then I moved to New York and I started to get some sense of power.
	But I tried writing for TV as a way to make a living because I just wasn't making it as a comic.
	But as a stand-up, I worked until, it wasn't really till I was like 40 that I started to really like hit.
	So I had all those years.
	So that's like a whole other, you know.
	Right, right.
	People kind of forget about that.
	Yeah, and I wasn't trying to discredit you.
	No, no, no, no, no, no, no, feel that at all.
	No.
	But after that, then I had, yeah, I had this big, and the biggest part of it was the stand-up.
	I mean, that's what fueled it all was that I was selling out theaters all of a sudden and they couldn't be big enough.
	Like I would double the size and it'd sell it out.
	I would put a show on sale and it would sell out in a minute.
	And there wasn't a room in the world.
	Like there wasn't an indoor space in the world I couldn't book.
	Like we would, me and my agent would talk about where do you want to play.
	Like let's go to London, Royal Albert Hall, if you feel like it, Wembley Arena.
	Just any place.
	Stonehenge.
	Yeah, fucking Madison Square Garden, weird amphitheaters and avenues.
	Mr. McGregor's Gardens.
	Anywhere.
	Anywhere.
	It was crazy.
	Like I remember I would talk to one point about playing Central Park, you know, like Simon and Garfunkel did.
	Like it was crazy.
	And then the TV thing, you know, I mean, I had that show and it hit, but it wasn't like friends or something.
	It wasn't like, you know what I mean?
	It wasn't a network show with a huge reach.
	There's Still, a shit ton of people that never saw it.
	It had pretty low ratings, my show.
	It got a lot of press and awards and stuff, and not even as many awards as other shows.
	It wasn't like the office or something, right?
	But I loved the work.
	I loved, I was getting to do the show exactly the way I wanted.
	So I had huge fulfillment that way.
	And yeah, it was weird.
	I was getting awards and I was at awards shows and stuff like that.
	And I would meet somebody like Brad Pitt and he'd be like, oh, dude.
	And that kind of strange feelings.
	And I'm sure.
	And your ego has to build even if you don't know it.
	The ego is so weird.
	That's right.
	That's the thing that you got to be careful of.
	You don't know what your ego is doing.
	You just, success is very dangerous because there's no warning signs on it.
	There's nothing cautionary about it in the experience.
	You just believe in it.
	You're just like, this is all happening because I'm good at this and because it's my time.
	And here we go.
	And anything good that happens, you go, sure, I'll do that too.
	And you just keep letting it load on and you don't think about like you ever seen the American gangster.
	It's Denzel Washington.
	You're watching him quietly build this huge empire.
	And then it's when he goes out in the white fur coat to the fight.
	He goes to a boxing match in a white fur coat.
	And then the head cop, Russell Crowe, goes, who's that guy?
	And he's not aware that somebody has just gone, wait a minute, who's the guy in the white fur?
	So when you're like big, getting bigger and bigger, somebody out there is going like, what's going on with that guy?
	That guy's flying awfully high.
	And you just don't, you're not aware of that.
	You just go, this just keeps being good.
	I'll do next year, I'll do 10 shows of the garden.
	I mean, where does that go?
	Where do you think that's going?
	Like now I look at it like, where do you think that's headed?
	Like it just can't things that expand explode.
	Right.
	Yeah, it's unsustainable for most artists in the world.
	I mean, every comedian has, that's even gotten that big.
	There's been some come back to earth moment.
	Every buddy who gets that big.
	Right.
	Has whatever their vulnerability is, whatever their thing is, their Achilles heel, it's going to get hit.
	Yeah.
	Because the world tests you and it's also just more interesting to watch somebody go down.
	It's just part of life.
	Life is a zero-sum game, you know.
	But so, yeah, but having done stuff like hosting Saturday Night Live like a bunch of times, like that was never, that wasn't in my sights.
	Like I didn't think these things would happen to me.
	I had completely given up.
	Did you really not?
	I completely had given up on those things happening to me.
	And you just admitted to being a writer, you think?
	Yeah, I thought I'll never stop doing stand-up, I thought, because I love it.
	It's the thing I love.
	But I can write.
	I'm a good writer.
	I tried making films early and they crashed and burned.
	So I'm like, I'm not going to be a film director either.
	Those are the big dreams, like direct movies, be a comedian.
	I'm going to do comedy, but no one's ever going to love it.
	And I'll go down for whatever I was maybe pulling in a few hundred people a night down and it'll just diminish.
	And someday I'll have to give it up.
	And I'll write and that'll be okay.
	I'll make other people famous, make Chris Rock famous, make Conan, you know, help other guys get there.
	And there's joy in that.
	Chris, I love Chris.
	He was my favorite growing up.
	Yeah, he astonished me when he came back to stand up after SNL and inspired me a lot.
	And he's one of the best friends I've ever had.
	And he was a great boss, when he was just my boss, I just loved him.
	He was the greatest guy.
	He used to say, like, you know, I'm not, it's not about me.
	We're all, because he hired writers that were all really good.
	And he said, we're all the Yankees.
	I'm in the cleanup spot, but I'm just the guy who has this one role, but you're all, you know, we made us feel like we're all part of it.
	So I liked that work, but I had no, I had really decided and I started, I had a kid and I was like, this is not, it's not going to happen, never going to happen for me.
	And then something changed because when I went on stage, I just didn't, I didn't care anymore about my career.
	So I, and I was really cranky and I was starting to really, I went through a new cranky phase and I was a tired father and, and I started talking about that.
	And then things, then things changed.
	Did it surprise you?
	Yeah, it really did.
	It really did.
	It shocked me.
	And then when I got the show on FX, they paid me the minimum.
	I got paid scale.
	Yeah.
	And the show had the smallest budget of any show on television.
	But the point was, and it was on FX, which was nowhere at the time.
	I mean, they had a few cool shows.
	Yeah, but people didn't know about it.
	No.
	So I thought, I'm going to do a show and I'm going to love it.
	And it's never going to take off.
	It's just going to be a little show.
	My friend Laura Keitlinger had done this show called The Adventures of Jackie Something.
	And Laura's one of the funniest people I knew.
	And she did a nice season on like AMC.
	And I thought, that's what I'm going to do.
	One season of this weird little show.
	And then I'll go back to, then I'll get another writing job.
	That's what I figured.
	I had no fucking, and then we're like, you know, then we're getting on the big lists.
	And then we got, I mean, I was totally shocked that that happened.
	But then after a few years, I'm like, yeah, this is, you know, it's like, if you play blackjack, you start winning.
	You get stupid right away.
	You're like, it's because I'm good at blackjack.
	It's because I know what I'm doing.
	And then they just, then you're busting every hand.
	You're like, no, I'm a fucking asshole.
	So yeah, I was in a place where I thought like, this is happening because I know what I'm doing now and because I'm earning it.
	But a lot of it is just so weird.
	You caught a wave.
	You caught a wave.
	It was good timing.
	Yeah, it's interesting how some comedians don't even get the time.
	It's like what their funny is in their lifespan.
	It just doesn't match with the wave of like where society is sometimes.
	That's right.
	There's some people that are incredible, but they weren't that at the right time.
	That's one of the biggest challenges in comedy is just staying good when nobody's paying attention and continuing to progress because it's like this searchlight that maybe finds you sometimes.
	And if every time it finds you, you're getting better and better, then somebody in the world will start to go, this guy is a good bet.
	They'll start putting money on you.
	But anyway, then when I started to pull in the, when it became like total, like just nothing failed.
	Hysteria.
	Yeah.
	On the road, because stand-up was always the most important thing.
	I thought an interesting way to leverage this would be to make a connection with the fans through this website because I could have started taking huge checks from big promoting companies.
	there are tours where they just give you the money first, right?
	Right.
	It's like here's $7 million or whatever.
	Yeah.
	And then we're going to charge your fans $600 a ticket.
	Right.
	You know, we're going to sell, and then we're going to sell those tickets to our own reseller, you know, to we're going to make money that way.
	And we're going to give you, they can do stuff like, we'll give you a jet.
	Verizon's paying for the jet.
	And now you have a Verizon sign above your, you know, they have, you have sponsorships on the tour.
	And then they, they load on other comedians that they owe money to that they're trying to burn off the money.
	And you're doing rooms that are just awful that they own.
	You know, it's just, but it's $7 million.
	Here you go.
	That's what you get for your 30-year climb.
	That's what that's, you know.
	Right.
	But to me, it was more interesting to go because I was interested in like Ticketmaster has all the emails.
	They know those are the Glen Gary leads.
	They have, but if I make a website and sell directly to people and I think about how I don't like buying stuff when they ask me for my email, I don't like.
	Yeah, I hate it.
	I don't like belonging to stuff.
	I don't like joining.
	Right.
	I don't want to do that to my fans either.
	No, so we just make it that you just pay the five bucks and it's in $5 was this like crisp little number.
	And then you have it.
	And I don't care if you fucking share it.
	Don't be a dick and make money on it, but I don't give a shit that much.
	It's never going to, it's not going to ruin my life if other people share my products.
	Right.
	And at the time, this idea of protecting your product was getting bigger because digital was new, you know?
	And then I got your email.
	And if you want to give me your email, you have to give it to me.
	Like we made it hard to get to get on the list.
	So I got this little list that started growing.
	And it just, that saved my life because I still have that list is getting bigger and bigger.
	But that's who I go to now.
	Has that been, do you find more, do you miss the notoriety of interesting?
	Not even a single bit.
	And that's true?
	That's 100% true.
	I don't miss it.
	I don't the thing I just do.
	I mean, I've been touring for three years.
	Right, right, yeah.
	Theaters all over the world and big places.
	A lot of my friends have been working with you on and off over the years, and I know that for sure.
	But yeah, I guess I was wondering, do you miss that Hollywood style kind of notary?
	Because that's the things that podcasters always miss a little bit.
	They're not like in this.
	It's so funny to me, too, because I have friends, like Shane is a buddy of mine, Shane Dillis.
	And he puts sketches on YouTube, and hundreds of thousands of people watch them, and people worship Shane, and he sells out big places, and he's having a great time.
	And he's like, I'll never get on television.
	Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
	Like, what is your problem?
	Yeah.
	It's like a guy who invented the telegraph and he's like, they'll never let me on the Pony Express.
	It's like, you just killed the Pony Express.
	What the fuck are you worried about?
	This has so much more power.
	That shit is dead.
	And it's still, you know, you think about, well, I grew up thinking about the tonight show.
	Oh, that's what everybody thinks about.
	If you could do Jimmy Kimmel every night for six weeks and kill, and you ain't going to sell one ticket off that.
	Nobody's watching comedians, and they don't even know where to find you.
	No.
	This shit, it spreads.
	It's on every, it's all over the world.
	It's crazy.
	You have the same bandwidth as NBC, ABC, or any of them.
	But the difference is you got something.
	People are never, your fans you have from doing this, they're never going to let you go.
	You're going to stay with you.
	It's a blessing.
	It is.
	And when you can go to direct, it's just, I do stand-up now and people come and we have a great time and they pay me.
	And what the fuck else could I possibly want?
	These are people I care about.
	They went out of their homes.
	I know.
	Fucking got a babysitter and parked somewhere and then sat politely in a fucking seat with strangers and listened to me and gave me a shit ton of money.
	I mean, when I went back to clubs first, I'm like, I'm in clubs again.
	Like, that's all I got.
	I thought that might hurt.
	I didn't know if it would feel like this.
	But when I first was like the St. Louis funny moment, I remember, you know, the soda thing is right next to you going like feeding soda to the bar.
	Oh, yeah.
	You're in a back room with just soda machines.
	That was one of the last ones you could smoke in, too.
	Yeah, you could, it's still.
	Oh, you can?
	Good.
	They had the early smoking show.
	And I was like, here I am.
	But I went on stage and that place, you know, the crowd is just all around you and it's hot.
	You feel a heat.
	Like you can see kind of like a like steam coming off of them.
	Oh, yeah.
	And it's a dump.
	You feel like if you just pushed one of the walls hard enough, the whole club would fall down.
	Yeah.
	And I had a fucking ball.
	I had such a good time.
	And it was hard work.
	I did like two Friday, two Saturday, like the old days.
	And then I got paid.
	And I'm for whatever I am, I can still get 80, 90% of the door.
	Yeah.
	And 80, 90% of the door of a comedy club after, you know, Thursday through Saturday, that's crazy money.
	Now, playing the garden and then another arena the next night for 20 nights in a row is astronomically more, but I don't feel that money.
	I don't need, you know what I mean?
	That doesn't feel like more.
	Right.
	It's just like, yeah, that's a shit ton of money.
	It's all gone now because I'm stupid.
	And I, because I made movies with it.
	I make my own stuff with my own money now.
	But that fucking funny bone check, I was like, who needs more than that, man?
	And I'm with comedians I love.
	I'm choosing my openers.
	We're having fun together.
	And then I called enough money together to make that movie with Joe.
	And we don't get, you know, I don't get written about.
	I'm not, you know, when I, I made two specials of last year's.
	Yeah, does that hurt?
	No, it doesn't.
	It really doesn't because a shit ton of people buy them on the site and folks that want, I'm back to that place where if you're watching me, it's because you really want to hear these jokes.
	It's not because you want to like, you know, see what this means inside the culture.
	You don't want to, you're not trying to clam on to act cool because you like me.
	It's just you're into the comedy.
	If you're watching me, you're into the comedy.
	There's no other reason to do it.
	And I like that.
	And I have my friends in the industry and in my community, I have my real friends.
	I lost a lot, but now I have real Friends, and I love them, and I love their success.
	Doing that with Joe is a big thing for me because that was his story, it was his voice.
	So, giving a movie to a young guy, you know, who I just thought was worthy, somebody should listen to this guy.
	And I don't think anybody else is going to make a movie for him.
	So, that felt great.
	And it's a small, it's a small movie.
	It's got small scale, you know, it's not like some like, whoa, it's just a fucking real story.
	So, I got to do that.
	And it's, it's inching towards making its money back.
	It's just, it's just, you know, it costs a lot because of the pandemic.
	It was expensive to shoot during the pandemic.
	But, but no, it's really good.
	And I don't know.
	You can have a life like that.
	You don't have to take every opportunity.
	I don't think that that Hollywood notoriety, that membership of that club, it's not really good for you.
	I don't think it's cool.
	It's a fun trip.
	If you can make the trip, if you can get that big, go on the trip.
	If you can go on some red carpets, have fun.
	It's worth experiencing.
	If you can host Saturday Night Live, go fucking do it.
	Make the most of it and do your best and try to be yourself.
	It's really everybody that has made it and had a real, like you're saying at the end of life going, I did all this.
	It's could you stay yourself during it?
	Because if you're not yourself, if you change in order to stay in those places, because that's the first thing they'll ask you to do.
	Oh, yeah, that's what I tried when I got to Los Angeles.
	Then if you do that, then you're not the one experiencing it anymore.
	You're lost.
	It's not you.
	You became somebody else to do that.
	And then you start getting this weird feeling about that.
	Yeah, that's so interesting.
	I've been a part of things where it's like, I don't feel like this is me.
	And it's because I wasn't choosing it.
	It wasn't me choosing it.
	So then, of course, it's not going to be me that shows up to it every day.
	No.
	That's a fascinating note for anybody.
	Nick, this could be a relationship, a job, anything you're in.
	If you're wondering why something doesn't feel right all the time or doesn't fit or you're not showing up the same way that feels comfortable to you, it's because of that very reason right there.
	Yeah, because you kind of, desire can come from a lot of things.
	It's not always internal.
	Sometimes it's like, I've been told I want this, or this feels like this might get me out of where I am.
	This seems like what I should be doing.
	Yes.
	Or it might be a step that feels right to me.
	I've seen other people do that.
	Or sometimes it's just like, maybe this will get me out of my misery.
	Maybe this will change everything, that kind of thing.
	But the thing you got to ask yourself is, am I being Theo when I take this step forward?
	Like, what would he do?
	Because, and if it looks so good, but you're like, that ain't me, man.
	You say to yourself, yeah, but it's okay.
	Cause I'll take that step and then there'll be another me step past that.
	But there's no more you.
	Like if you take one step that's not you, you have nowhere to put the next foot.
	It's not you anymore.
	Your yard.
	You're not nowhere.
	But if you take a step that's like, this seems like a bad idea.
	This is hard.
	Nobody likes this.
	But it's me, man.
	What am I going to do?
	Then when you take that step, the great thing is no matter what comes at you, all you got to do is lift your foot and plant it again.
	You're still you.
	You get you through hard times and it'll keep you available for good times as yourself.
	You know, there's nothing, there's nothing else.
	There's nothing else.
	All that stuff, it's got a growth side to it.
	But if you're yourself again, if you can be yourself in it, you can observe it, you can find love there.
	There's love everywhere.
	So you can find friends and you can find interesting things.
	You know, if you're in an award show, there's people working the cameras and stuff.
	And like a lot of them were people I knew from like Conan, like crew members.
	So I'd be at an award show going like, I shouldn't be here.
	And then I'd see, you know, a guy like, hey, and I'd go like, hey, hey, there's love there, you know?
	Yeah.
	Or a weird actor I worked with for some, on something a long time ago.
	And he's, you know, there is people, you can find a loving and a self-path through anything.
	But if you depend on it, if you're like, I won't feel good if everybody, if I'm not a Hollywood A-lister, you might as well fucking pack it in.
	That's, it's not a good way to live.
	Yeah, man.
	It's just, it's so interesting to hear some of that because I've had spots, even in this past couple years of my life, where I chose to do certain things.
	And I'm like, I know this doesn't feel right, but I feel like I need to do it for money or I feel like I need to do it for.
	And once I got out of some of that, everything has fallen so much more into place.
	I've gotten more semblance of humanity.
	Like I just feel like myself more again.
	It's been pretty fascinating.
	Good.
	When it comes to like love in your life, has that been a tough thing?
	I find like as a comedian, like I get so analytical about stuff.
	And obviously we were talking a little bit about how like getting into emotional spaces can be like a real, you know, that can be like a real, it's a real, it can be a tough space sometimes for comedians.
	Has it been, sometimes I notice even with like being in love or something like that, I'll like, I'll be analyzing it so much, it's hard for me to actually be in the feelings.
	Yeah.
	Cause I'm like, it's like to be in the feelings, you almost have to let go of some control kind of.
	Yeah, you do, you know?
	And so have you had experiences like that in your life?
	Has it been kind of tough or what's that kind of been like?
	Because I know you've had, you've been married and you've been a parent.
	I've been married.
	Yeah, I've got two kids.
	That's a different kind of love.
	That's a forever.
	It's a love you just have.
	It's like you can't choose that.
	Was that hard for that?
	Because sometimes I fear that like because love seems so negotiable sometimes, I think because it was like that when I was a, it felt like that when I was a kid, that I worry that it's going to be like that if I'm a parent.
	How is it negotiable when you're a kid?
	You mean conditional?
	You mean like it can go away if you don't do the right thing or something?
	What do you mean?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I think like if you don't yeah, if you're not like, I don't know, if you're not something, then you don't deserve something, you know, or something like that.
	You know?
	Yeah, I have a dog.
	Do you have a dog?
	Uh-uh.
	I've got a dog and she's like my wife now.
	Like it's me and her, you know.
	And we, I mean, my kids are in my life and we have a great joy, but my dog's with me every single day when I'm home.
	Oh, wow.
	And I was with my dog once and I'd smoked a little.
	I don't smoke weed very much, but I went to Washington Square Park and just bought some weed, and it was, I think it was a little much.
	Oh, yeah.
	Some weed makes people gay, even makes gay people even gayer.
	Oh, dude, I've never seen that.
	No, but I was, I was like, getting existential and weird, you know?
	Yeah.
	But my dog came over and sat with me, so I just kind of hung on to her.
	And I said to her, you know, you don't have to do anything.
	You don't ever have to do anything.
	I said, you don't have to worry.
	You don't have to try.
	You don't have to be sorry.
	You don't have to promise.
	You don't have to regret.
	All you got to do is sit there and just take the love that's coming at you.
	That's all you got to do is just be and just take the love that's just coming.
	And then I thought, I could say that to myself too.
	I could say that to anybody.
	You know?
	I mean, if you're willing to just be yourself and just sit there, yeah, it's hard.
	Sometimes you're just alone.
	Sometimes you're just lonely.
	Sometimes you don't find somebody you don't find love.
	But once you have kids, it's a tricky thing with kids too, because you want to love them.
	And then you also got to let them go.
	You also got to let them depart your life.
	You got to let them.
	My kids are 18 and 21 now.
	17 and 21. About to be 18 a few months.
	But they start to, you know, and yet, and then it turns into a different, everything that takes away from you gives, you get another, it's a zero-sum game.
	So your kids aren't little, you know, holding your hand anymore, but you can watch a movie and make fun of a movie together.
	You know what I mean?
	And talk about life and be friends.
	And that's incredible with somebody who you used to wipe her little face, you know, and now you're laughing at a fucking shitty movie together and talking about how shitty this movie fucking sucks.
	Cursing together, you know.
	Yeah.
	That's really something.
	Oh, yeah.
	I want to curse with my fucking kid.
	Yeah, you need to have kids.
	I think.
	I think you should have kids.
	And I don't know.
	I mean, that love with a woman, with a partner, that's a lot harder because you're both armed with self-protection and stuff.
	Yeah, totally.
	And so I think the thing, you got to be willing to just try and fail.
	It has to be okay for you that if it doesn't work out because it mostly usually doesn't.
	I think it should be okay with people that you combine with somebody and you try and a bunch of stuff doesn't work and you fuck some and you have fun and you do something exciting like having kids together.
	And then when it's just, when it starts to rot, you get the fuck out.
	It's okay.
	Just get out.
	You're done.
	Your dad did it.
	You just get, you know, my dad did.
	You know, my parents broke up.
	Vaminos.
	Yeah.
	Thank God my parents broke up.
	Yeah, that's a great point, huh?
	Sometimes I romanticize things to the point where if the re if I were able to look at the reality of it, I would see that it's a fucking nightmare, you know?
	But I can't get there sometimes in my head because I get stuck so much in the romantization.
	Well, because your feelings are, yeah, your feelings run a lot of your life and you can't reason with them.
	I know.
	It's crazy.
	Who made them?
	I don't know.
	I don't know who the fuck is inside.
	I don't know.
	It's this big fucking mystery.
	But yeah, you can't.
	You're in a thing with somebody, especially young.
	I don't know.
	It gets easier when you get older.
	Like now when I meet somebody, if I'm starting to get romantic with somebody when there's conflict, I just go, yeah, I can't.
	We don't need to do that, do we?
	Like, you get to it quicker.
	Right.
	Then when you're younger, you get, you start having a, like you're two, you're like playing a battleship where you have a, you can't see each other's force.
	You're not lying.
	You're driving past each other's house.
	You put a nair in each other's shampoo.
	I put nair in a girl's shampoo in college.
	Yeah, dude.
	Oh my God.
	That's fucking pretty awesome.
	Yeah, dude.
	Those are the days because we had to do it.
	And she still tries to hook up with me.
	You know, by the way, there's a bit of yours in that first album that has a potential.
	You touched on something and a great idea for a bit and you didn't finish it.
	Yeah.
	I've heard a few comics do that, you know?
	Uh-huh.
	You're talking about farts and you have, first of all, you have a take on it.
	I've never heard what you say, I hate farting.
	I've just never heard anybody say that.
	I hate farting.
	But at the end of the bit, you say sort of to yourself, you go, we got to get, we got to beat him.
	We got to beat farts.
	We got to beat him.
	And you just sort of say it a few times, we got to beat him.
	The idea of that there's a cure for farts is fucking hilarious that we need to find a cure.
	Nobody's even thinking about curing farts.
	That's unbelievable.
	That's a cure for farts.
	That's a great, I mean, to me, that's like, I want you to go there.
	No, I appreciate it, man.
	Yeah, you had some great, you had some cool material about that last night, man.
	Dude, there's so many.
	You don't give me a chance.
	It's like, that's why I'm like, do I have to go back and watch it again?
	Because I don't even have a before I'm processing shit.
	I'm like, so far into the fucking funhouse, there's like a disabled man eating my ass, dude.
	And I'm trying to fucking order a rube.
	And it's like, I literally don't even know what's going on, dude.
	Maybe I'm going too fast.
	Maybe I should go.
	I do want to talk about 4th of July, man.
	I'm in recovery.
	I got like eight months.
	So it was, thank you.
	And so it was nice for me to just see those guys, you know, and just like a part of it that people don't like Joe's sponsor calling him.
	No worries.
	Take a moment.
	Water down the wrong pipe.
	Isn't that crazy, man?
	Yeah.
	When water tries to like, fuck our lungs.
	No, you can die.
	Oh, yeah.
	If you get a lot.
	Well, I mean, it's what it feels like.
	Yeah.
	It's really all the comfort you have that you're alive.
	You can just squeeze this little...
	Like, it's probably this much water.
	And it's like, I'm dying.
	Dude, if I have tuna fish, because a lot of times, you know, when you're coming up, you have to cook in your hotel room in the, you know.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So I'd mix like tuna and stuff in a hot plate or something?
	No, just in a styrofoam cup.
	Okay.
	And then, um, but if I had Gatorade, electrolytes, and tuna, my throat would shut down and I didn't know.
	Oh, really?
	Some crazy reaction.
	So, yeah, one time I was fucking losing.
	I called 911 and I'm losing it.
	It was the first time that it happened.
	I got really scared and I went up to this, not a matrix.
	What's the lady that helps clean the room, clean the hotel?
	Definitely not a matrix.
	You mean the maid?
	Maid, maid.
	Cleaning lady, yeah, whatever.
	Yeah, or maid.
	Yeah.
	I went up, turned, I'm like, fucking, you know, trying to fucking do like this, you know, and Gatorade, you know.
	What did it happen?
	Like fish and Gatorade.
	Oh, bro.
	And I remember putting, literally putting my fingers in my throat and fucking holding it open enough so I could breathe.
	Like, wow.
	But it's just when that pipe, it's like the littlest thing, man.
	No, man, you're gone.
	That's why waterboarding works.
	You could go like this and I'll tell you everything.
	Forget it.
	The movie was so great.
	Can I ask you, just as a, how much does it cost to make a movie like this?
	And you said it was more during the pandemic.
	It's way too much.
	Okay.
	It was like something like $2 million.
	That movie shouldn't have cost that much.
	But there's two reasons.
	One was the pandemic because that just, it was like 30% more.
	Everything cost 30% more.
	Right.
	And then the other thing was that I was coming back to, I hadn't filmed anything in a long time and because the pandemic had happened.
	And I just wanted to really enjoy it.
	I wanted to really make a movie and not worry about it.
	Low, low budget movie just means you're dragging your balls on the gravel.
	And it's just every single thing you do is hard.
	And everybody around you is stressed out because nobody's getting paid enough and you're working bad hours and stuff.
	I just didn't want to do it.
	I just wanted to like, so we did a comfortable version of it.
	It still was very low budget.
	That's still very low for a long trip movie.
	Sorry?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But and also we shot in this house that that was the hard, the biggest expense probably was the house because we had to find, I couldn't make the movie unless that house was the exact right kind of roomy log cabin.
	It had to be on a lake and it had to be in a place that felt like Maine.
	It was actually in upstate New York on Lake George.
	And that was a, and a place that's willing to be rented.
	It's a house.
	So we, the place, there's like a list usually of location, people that put themselves out there as were available.
	None of them worked.
	So I had to have a guy, the location guy is a guy named Jeff Caron from Louie from my series.
	And I went to him and asked him to do it.
	And he said, I don't do that anymore.
	I'm retired like he is a whole other life.
	And I just begged him.
	And he came out of retirement just for me.
	So he, because he had to just go real estate listings and go hit the fucking bricks all over like Northern America, you know, and go to people's doors and knock on them and say, are you willing to be a location?
	That kind of cold calling.
	It was very hard to find the right place.
	And then once we found the place that was willing, they could have doubled the price.
	We still would have paid it because, so it cost a lot.
	And then we put Lake George is in this little town where it's really expensive.
	So there's no hotel.
	So we had to find housing.
	We had to find like basically vacation homes for the whole cast and crew.
	And that was the hugest.
	Anyway, it's a long explanation.
	But it's a lot.
	It shows how much goes into all that.
	Yeah, a movie like that should, you should be able to make it for under a million bucks.
	It's, it's so, it's just people talking.
	It's pretty simple.
	I mean, we shot in New York City too, which is expensive.
	So for the first like 30 minutes of the movie.
	But there's a lot of ways.
	There's so many cameras now that have as good a sensor as any other camera.
	And the great lenses of the world you can rent and everything else is rentable.
	And there's people that have film equipment who are dying to use it now because they overbought.
	And you can usually pull a, I mean, the unions are strict and you have to use union crews most of the time.
	So if you're really trying to make a movie with like a, you know, carpentry department and electrical and grips and everything, yeah, it's hard to keep the cost down a bit.
	But if you just do it with your friends with a camera, you could do it for whatever it costs to rent the clothes.
	Yeah, it's interesting.
	Once you go over that union line, once you get into like, that's when once somebody calls their agent, you're fucked.
	That's right.
	Yeah.
	It's just the way it is.
	Yeah.
	It's expensive.
	It was it.
	Yeah, man.
	I just thought it was incredible.
	That moment, I don't want to give it away, really, but there's a nice moment where the dad comes into the room with Joe.
	Yeah.
	Towards the end.
	Yeah, with the phone.
	Yeah, it's funny because it's so subtle.
	Well, he had a whole speech that he gave.
	Oh, he did.
	He took it out.
	Yeah, that was the kind of like the point of the whole movie was that he gives this speech.
	That's what I was kind of waiting.
	I was waiting for that a little, but then I just accepted that it was just a moment.
	Yeah, it was weird because we did.
	So when we wrote it, it was all about this dad, even though he says nothing through almost the whole movie.
	He's totally silent.
	And Joe and his mom are just at loggerheads.
	And she runs the family.
	And he's trying to become an individual, but be loved by her.
	And it's impossible.
	She's withholding like your mom sounds like she was, didn't know how to love, you know.
	So he's dealing with that, but you just see once in a while we go to these shots that are just quiet, private shots of the dad, like not knowing how to deal.
	And Joe has a big anxiety disorder that we kind of portray through weird filming.
	And at one point, we show that the dad also has a problem.
	Oh, I didn't catch that.
	I did, but I didn't.
	Yeah, like he's kind of like an undiagnosed older guy with, he's got an anxiety disorder, but nobody told him, you know, nobody told that generation that there was like a thing wrong with him.
	So he's dealing with that.
	And then, and then at the end, when Joe feels like he's kind of figured stuff out, he comes in and says this thing.
	And it was this speech where he says, he starts trying to, he's struggling to talk because he doesn't, he's, because he's an anxious guy.
	He's socially anxious.
	And he starts telling him about, he was, he said, when I played football, I was a lineman in high school and we were playing Brockton High.
	And he tells the story about seeing the quarterback and that he could sack him and win the game.
	But he hesitated.
	And the guy lofted the pass over his head.
	But he did in the pass missed anyway.
	And then he's about to kind of make his point and the phone rings and he gives up.
	So he gets through the story, but doesn't make his point.
	But we played it that way, and it just felt...
	And when we shot it, when he was the guy who was acting it, Bob Walsh, we were all crying.
	Everybody was crying.
	Joe was crying.
	Everybody was.
	And I was like, this is the thing.
	But then you watch the whole movie and you go, I don't want to fucking listen to this bullshit.
	It's just stupid.
	And also, so much had happened And so much there, we just want to get there.
	So I tried a version where he comes up and says, Hey, the phone rings.
	And he goes, Never mind.
	And for some reason, that got all of the emotional.
	That got far more.
	People watched that and they cried.
	And so, yeah, sometimes you just, it's what you don't.
	A lot of times in movies, it's what you take anything you can take out and leave a blank, a space where this almost feels like there's a mistake.
	There's a weird emotional reaction to that.
	Yeah, I got that the dad was like, oh, here's a woman that cares about you.
	So you need to take that.
	Yes.
	And he, and that was him.
	He did that.
	I mean, the line is that's your wife, but he pointed at it and he made a thing of it.
	That's your wife.
	You should take that.
	Yeah, there's a lot of meaning in that moment.
	And I didn't, the thing I love about making movies is, is that I don't really know what the movie's about.
	The story just kind of comes to you and you sort of, it's almost like you're taking dictation.
	Like, I guess this is what happens.
	It just makes you try to write it as involuntarily as possible.
	And then as you make the movie and you get to sit there and watch the shit happen, you go, fuck, this is what that means.
	That's why that happened.
	Like you start to learn about it as you make it.
	Yeah.
	And sometimes actors get lost and you can, as a director, help them by talking about that.
	I think this is what he's trying.
	I don't know.
	And sometimes they know and you don't.
	It's fucking, it's like, it's like if you could do it with life, like deconstruct life and have all the dialogues between your family members in front of you and just watch as a spectator.
	Yeah.
	But I never feel like it's like about controlling it or saying, you got to do this.
	You just learn, you learn through it, you know?
	Yeah.
	And when it's comedy, when it's funny in it, you know.
	It was, yeah, I found it fascinating.
	I love the sponsor calling and fucking with the dumb lines.
	He's fucking like, oh, this is fucking retarded.
	But it's the shit you need to hear that keeps you in a fucking comfortable repetition of like, okay, this is what I do every day.
	This is how I get through the day.
	This is how I get through it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And Joe really wanted, it was important to him because I'm not an AA guy, but he, it was important to him to have it not be a typical AA movie where somebody always falls off the wagon.
	Yeah.
	And they get back on.
	And it's very earnest.
	And it's all just how terrific AA is.
	He wanted to show that it's a pain in the ass when a guy talks too long and that somebody always complains the guy wouldn't shut up.
	Yeah.
	And that when you get a sponsee, it's awkward.
	It's fucking, it's not, it's not lovely.
	It's like, what am I going to say to this fucking guy?
	I don't even like this guy.
	Dude, there's a guy that I met years ago at a meeting.
	I don't even know who he is.
	He calls me fucking once every week, dude.
	And I thought, I have no idea what he looks like.
	I have no fucking clue, dude.
	And he drives me absolutely insane.
	But every now and then, I'm in a low moment or I'm in a high moment or whatever.
	And I'll fucking, you know, and half the time I take the call.
	What's going on?
	You know, I don't know.
	It's interesting.
	That whole world's interesting.
	What was it like?
	So just real quick, you worked with Joe Rogan when you were young, right?
	When you were younger?
	Did you guys both start in Boston?
	Yeah, we both started in Boston at the clubs.
	And he was like a handsomest guy.
	Remember?
	Yes, he was.
	Yeah.
	I mean, Joe's still a handsome guy, right?
	I love Joe.
	But was there any like, because now if you're like a handsome comedian, people are like, oh, fuck this guy, right?
	You can't have it all.
	No, handsome doesn't help you on stage.
	Yeah.
	Was it like, were people like that against like whenever he was starting out?
	Well, I remember when he, I was, I started maybe a couple of years before him.
	So I was starting to feel like, you know, established or in that little Boston scene.
	And then this guy, he started with guys like Greg Fitzsimmons and him came out of the club.
	Yeah, they're still really close.
	Yeah.
	And there was a few other guys, Robbie Prince.
	He might have been after.
	But these guys were like new guys.
	They were the first new guys I was aware of.
	Oh, yeah.
	Because I had been a new guy for a couple of years.
	And so now these were new guys to me.
	So I was probably threatened by them, whatever.
	But I do remember feeling like Greg was, you know, he's an Irish kind of like.
	He's not as handsome.
	Greg is handsome.
	No, yeah, but back then he was more handsome.
	Yeah, Greg's like a bookie fucking like cousin of a bookie handsome.
	Exactly.
	Yes.
	But Joe, it wasn't just his looks.
	It was just he had this confidence.
	Yeah.
	And he's from, we grew up in the same town.
	I'm from Newton, Massachusetts.
	He grew up there too.
	Okay.
	So I went to Newton North High School and he went to Newton South, both public schools, but his was kind of fancier.
	They're like kind of richer kids.
	And I kind of thought of him as this like Newton South tan.
	He was so tanned.
	Oh, he looked, dude.
	He looks great.
	Yeah.
	And he was just like, dude, like he didn't, he didn't talk like a comic.
	He just, he just said, what the fuck?
	And he talked about fucking chicks and he talked about being, getting, being hot and getting laid or whatever.
	And I could see that he had a power on stage.
	But yeah, I was threatened by him because he was like a good-looking guy a couple of years younger than me started after me who was getting some attention.
	Yeah.
	And so on stage, I would be like, what is what's with this guy?
	But that's, I mean, Nick DePaulo started a year after me, and we didn't like each other.
	We were like rivals.
	We didn't like each other at all because we were both like new guys who were getting big laughs.
	But then we're very good friends.
	Yeah, he's in the movie.
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	The funny, I didn't even know that that was him until the end.
	I'm talking about this one.
	Oh, he looks very different.
	Yeah, he looks different.
	And still Nick.
	Yeah, somebody's like that singing.
	And I was like, oh my God, that's where I knew him from.
	But then I got to know him and I really liked him.
	And he was a fascinating guy.
	He was a Taekwondo, like black belt champion.
	He's like a champion type of a game.
	Yeah, he's a real athlete.
	And we would talk about fighting and life and stuff.
	And I just liked him.
	As soon as I got to know him, I liked him.
	And then I started watching, like any comedian, you first see him, you go, whoa, what's so great about him?
	I mean, when you're younger, then I watch him.
	Then I go, then I started to really respect what he and most of how he got good after I knew him because he was still just new and raw.
	And he was, I felt he was killing because he was, there is a level where you can, the girls like you on stage.
	He was also fucking every weight, every hot waitress.
	He was getting all the pussy.
	How are you supposed to like a guy like that?
	But personally, one-on-one, I really did like him a lot.
	And then I started.
	And I would have fucked him, but I would have fucking stood by him.
	Put your hand on the back of this.
	I would have put it.
	Yeah.
	A little of this with Joe Rogan.
	Not bad.
	Yeah, but he was also interesting as a guy and not typical.
	Some guys who are handsome are trapped by that, you know.
	But he was an interesting dude.
	And then when he went on and I'd hear his stand-up, I was like, that's he's working, and he's good.
	And I liked his stand-up.
	And then we had kind of a cross-roads thing because he did that thing with Carlos Mencia where he outed him for stealing or which, however you feel about that, but it was his, he was very friendly about it.
	And then his agency, Gersh, told him, if you don't dump, if you don't stop, if you don't apologize to Carlos, we'll dump you.
	And that was my agency was Gersh.
	And so he let them go.
	And I heard that and I was like, that's crazy.
	And I called him and we didn't, we hadn't talked in a long time, but I contacted him to say, I need to hear from you if that's a true story.
	And he said, 100%.
	Wow.
	They called me and they said, apologize or you're out of the agency.
	And that's all I needed to hear.
	I called them and I said, you're not my agents anymore.
	What if I have an argument with another comedian?
	What are you fucking nuts?
	Yeah.
	You can't do that.
	So I dumped them.
	And then I started to know that side of Joe that's like, he believes what he believes and he goes by it, whether it's going to hurt him or not.
	And I've always known him that way.
	We just would run, our friendship has been like running into each other in the parking lot of this comedy store and talking for a couple of hours about life.
	Most of comedians, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	People always ask what he's like.
	He's one of the most genuinely curious guys I ever met.
	Like he has like any of it.
	He just retains information so well.
	And people are always like, a lot of you podcaster guys, you guys suck Rogan's dick.
	You know, you always, that kind of stuff.
	No, you like him.
	And he's number one.
	Yeah.
	And he's good at it.
	It's like you want to look, like, you want to learn and look up and like, not emulate, but you, there's a certain homage, especially in a space where guys like him and Marin and some other guys, you know, but even you, even putting your stuff on your website for $5 early on, that was like, it was a pioneerist type of move.
	A lot of people were like, that's guys, that's crazy.
	Yeah, it was kind of new at the time.
	I mean, it only works if you have your fans already.
	It doesn't help you get fans.
	Right.
	So a lot of, I know some comics did it after me and they're like, I'm going to do it.
	But they didn't.
	It worked for me because I was swelling.
	I was starting to get a shit ton of.
	Right.
	You had a fan base.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But it doesn't help you gather.
	It's the thing.
	And I do think that to some degree, because I don't have that allure in the media attention as much, sometimes it feels like it's just wearing down a little bit, you know, because it's just me and them.
	Right.
	So getting new people, it doesn't come as easily.
	But that's such an easy thing to accept.
	Also, I'm 55. I mean, how many more years am I going to be alive, you know, let alone working?
	Yeah.
	So it's not like I need it to just keep piling up and getting bigger.
	I mean, you've got, I mean, you've got, I mean, you've got, you've gotten it.
	I mean, you've gotten to be that big.
	Yeah, exactly.
	You don't need to stay big.
	That's crazy.
	And it's all kind of, it's all this mythological type of thing.
	It's all this, you know, it's like that whole business, it all kind of works together.
	It's like the age and his friends with the press guy.
	It's all this.
	Yeah.
	And once somebody gets big, then there's this crazy rush towards them because they're big and people just go, well, I guess I like him too.
	But that never lasts.
	And it's like going to space.
	You just got to be able to come, you just come back down.
	And you land in a lake.
	And you land in a lake and then you're left with whatever amount of fans you have.
	And that's your cruising altitude.
	Yeah.
	And that gets because everybody has that trajectory and then you don't hear about them, but they're out there touring.
	You know, Pearl Jam isn't at the Grammys anymore.
	Right.
	But they're fucking selling out whatever size place they want.
	They're just in, you know, you get your orbit if you're lucky.
	And not everybody gets to have that.
	Yeah.
	I mean, Motley Crew is one of the, like, brought in one of the most monies last year, I read somewhere.
	Right.
	Which blew my mind.
	Yeah, nobody's talking about Motley Crew.
	But the fact that they're, yeah, they stay busy.
	There's a lot of, there's a lot of work out there.
	But also, I don't, I think, I mean, I don't know.
	That's why the show at the Garden that I'm doing, that I'm live streaming.
	Yeah, the show, I think we've got about 500 tickets left, but it's like 19,000.
	Right.
	But also, you can buy it.
	You can, you can purchase it online, and we'll put the link in this video.
	And we'll also make sure that we run an ad that week.
	If we don't, if this doesn't come out that week, we'll run an ad that week for the show.
	Oh, thanks, man.
	Yeah, for sure.
	It's exciting.
	But that, to me, is like a way to say kind of one more and goodbye to that level.
	And then I'm probably going to take a break for a while.
	I think I might take a year or more off and not perform for a while.
	I want to feel what life feels like with that.
	I haven't done that since I was 18. I haven't stopped.
	Your show was one of the first shows I'd seen since maybe the first time that I'd seen comedy that I went to and stood in line and went to see comedy.
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	That's true.
	That's rare.
	I haven't done that in a long time myself.
	Norm McDonald's the last guy I went to bought a ticket and sat and watched a few years ago.
	He's great.
	Great, great, great.
	And actually, I just remember, I lied to you, I saw Bob Newhart.
	Oh, yeah.
	Where'd you see him?
	I saw him in Chicago at the Chicago Theater.
	No shit.
	Yeah, and he was telling jokes, and I was like, oh, these are just jokes that he fucking read off the internet, right?
	Oh, no.
	But then I realized, no, the jokes were just such old baked in the society jokes.
	He had fucking created them.
	Oh, yeah, of course.
	Of course, they were all him.
	Yeah.
	I'm like, wow.
	These are just shitty internet jokes.
	And then I'm like, oh, he fucking made these up.
	I met him once.
	He was with Don Rickles.
	Wow.
	And they were at a restaurant I was at.
	And the two of them and their wives were sitting.
	And one of their wives or somebody came from that table over to me and said, Don would like to say hi to you.
	So I walked back to the table and Don had his back to me.
	And he goes, he's not coming over here.
	Is he?
	That fucking piece of shit's not coming over here.
	Oh, hi.
	Like he did a thing.
	And he just starts shitting on me.
	He's like, look at you, what is this?
	You fat.
	How fucking old are you?
	What good are you?
	And I'm just glow.
	You know, I just feel great.
	And Bob's got this huge beaming smile on his face because he can see that his friend is happy.
	Yeah.
	And I just stood there and took a beating for about 10 minutes and just, you know, said hello to the ladies.
	And I honored them, you know, Bob, you're the best.
	Don, you're the best.
	And then Don kind of took my...
	It was like a few months before he died, I think.
	Wow.
	He took my shirt and pulled me down, and he said, Don't let him forget me.
	Please don't let people forget me, who I was.
	Did he really?
	Yep.
	And he said it really earnestly.
	Wow.
	Isn't that something?
	Yeah.
	Anyway, nobody remembers who that is.
	We know.
	Yeah, we know.
	Yep.
	But that's, yeah, it's wild that it all goes back into the sauce, man.
	It all goes back into the fucking nuts.
	Yeah, whatever you're able to do, everybody's going to forget.
	All of it.
	All of it.
	I feel like we got to keep a little of it.
	That's why I don't want to be cremated.
	When I see people that are getting cremated, I'm like, you're a fucking...
	Huh?
	Yeah?
	You think that body might still be alive?
	You have eight cells left.
	You have billions of fucking cells.
	You don't have fucking 30 cells left.
	And they're like.
	You think that's going to be you?
	Like, that's you?
	I think it has some recollection.
	It has some memory of, yeah.
	I think it holds me.
	Why does it need to stay alive?
	You feel like it needs to?
	As long as you can hang in there, basically?
	Yeah.
	And then you're like, oh, fuck, I'm getting grilled.
	Like, this is the absolute worst.
	So you're going to get buried.
	I think buried straight into the ground, you know?
	Actually, I used to want to get shot out of a cannon in like a schoolyard.
	And the first kid to touch my dick fucking wins.
	Wins all my money.
	That's not bad.
	That's not bad.
	There's places you can get buried right in the ground without a box.
	Like Maine, I think you can throw a body in the ground anywhere you want in the state of Maine.
	Yeah, there's not that many good.
	I want to believe with a few more chicks around, though, I think.
	Yeah?
	Oh, yeah.
	I don't really have any wishes for after.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I want to leave that up to my kids because they'll be the ones that have to experience it.
	What do you think they'll do?
	I don't know.
	It depends on how I do.
	Yeah.
	It's up to me.
	It's all up to us.
	Luisike, anything else, guys, you wanted to ask that?
	Yeah, last question.
	I saw 4th of July in theaters, and a lot of the people were, I feel like their reaction was how hyped they were to see comedians in a movie, like actual comics in a movie.
	What other comics do you want to see in movies?
	Oh, shit.
	You had to have a project or something?
	I wrote a movie with a friend of mine that I'm going to try to make next year.
	But it's a really twisted, weird movie, and it's probably going to be too expensive.
	So I may not get to make it.
	But I'm going to try.
	I don't know if there's any comedians in that one.
	I like comedians.
	You know who I always thought would be a good dramatic actor?
	His Tim Heidegger.
	You know who he is?
	Tim and Eric?
	Yeah.
	Tim Heidecker is, I saw him, I was in London.
	That's how crazy my life was.
	I had just made a movie, which just never came out.
	And I went to London because I did the music at Abbey Road Studios.
	I was just, I was like, I was telling him before, I was shitting money then.
	Now it's just shit shit.
	At the time, I shit money.
	And I had made this movie and I had a composer because I wanted to do an orchestral score.
	And he said, okay, we can get a great orchestra, a really great orchestra for like $150,000.
	They'll be the best in any movie you've watched recently would have this orchestra.
	Or we can go to Abbey Road and get the best players in Europe, like the best players at every instrument for $300,000.
	And I was like, it's just a check, bro.
	Fucking yeah.
	Let's get's go.
	Let's go.
	And I went to Abbey Road and we recorded music with a full orchestra.
	It's the fucking sickest thing.
	It's like I was a coke addict.
	It was a really crazy thing to do.
	Yeah.
	But anyway, while I was there, Tim Heidecker was playing at the Soho Theater.
	So I just went to watch him.
	And he was wearing this leather jacket that was, you know, like a leather blazer.
	Yeah.
	And he had his hair slicked back.
	And he's just, he's a very, you don't know where he's coming from guy.
	Yeah.
	Just being really weird and sarcastic, but seeming real at the same time.
	And I was riveted by his show.
	He got a few laughs.
	He wasn't, he's not like a killer comic because he doesn't try to be.
	But I thought that guy would be a really, I'd like to see him kill somebody in a movie.
	I'd like to see him.
	Yeah, he's got a Gacy vibe.
	Gacy, yeah, a little bit.
	I think he could do something.
	I could think he could scare the shit out of somebody in a movie.
	Yeah.
	That's when I look at comedians, I look at that.
	There's guys that you, you go, that guy's going to get me laughs.
	I won't make a movie without Bobby Kelly probably ever.
	He's just the greatest face in a movie.
	Nick DePaul, these are just the guys who I just go like, he's got to be in it.
	Yeah.
	Bobby's a sweet guy.
	Laura Keitlinger, who I mentioned before, I'd love to see her in a movie someday still.
	She was in a sitcom I did for one season and she was great.
	There's a lot of people out there.
	Hey, you captured.
	I mean, you just, yeah, man, I just, yeah, I love Fourth of July.
	And you guys can all check it out.
	You can subscribe.
	You can, January 28th is the special.
	Yeah.
	It's 25 bucks to watch it live.
	You get to watch it for 10 days.
	And it's what I saw last night?
	Yeah, same show.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	Fuck.
	We might buy it.
	I hope so.
	Well, you can have it for free.
	No, we'll buy it.
	We'll buy it, man.
	Louis, thank you so much, man.
	Thanks for having me.
	Yeah.
	It was really fun.
	That was really fun.
	Yeah, me too, man.
	It's interesting.
	I don't like podcasts.
	They're too serious.
	And everybody talks about, you know, their view on life.
	Yeah.
	And everybody talks about the same fucking shit.
	It's just the same four subjects we've been talking about since like 2012.
	And it's really boring.
	I feel like we talked about those, though.
	Comedy, jerking off.
	Yeah, a little bit, but that's real life.
	We talked about real life.
	We enjoyed the hell out of it.
	Oh, thank you, man.
	I did too, man.
	This was a real honor.
	And once again, you're hysterically funny comic.
	I hope that you focus on stand-up.
	I know this is good, but I hope that you stay on stage a lot because if you've only been doing it for 18 years, you're not even there yet.
	I mean, if that's how good you are now, then if you keep the stand-up being number one, and when you get to about 22 years or so, you're going to be unstoppable.
	So I hope you do.
	Thank you, man.
	Yeah.
	I hope to, yeah, I think that's where I'm at right now, figuring out kind of how to evolve, you know?
	Good.
	Thank you very much, Louis C.K. Ladies and gentlemen,
	I'm Jonathan Kite and welcome to Kite Club, a podcast where I'll be sharing thoughts on things like current events, stand-up stories, and seven ways to pleasure your partner.
	The answer may shock you.
	Sometimes I'll interview my friends.
	Sometimes I won't.
	And as always, I'll be joined by the voices in my head.
	You have three new voice messages.
	A lot of people are talking about Kite Club.
	I've been talking about Kite Club for so long, longer than anybody else.
	So great.
	Hi, Sweet.
	Is it there?
	Anyone who doesn't listen to Kite Club is a dodgy bloody wanker.
	Jamain.
	Hi, I'll take a quarter potter with cheese and a McFlurry.
	Sorry, sir, but our ice cream machine is broken.
	I think Tom Hanks just butt-dialed me.
	Anyway, first rule of Kite Club is tell everyone about Kite Club.
	Second rule of Kite Club is tell everyone about Kite Club.
	Third rule, like and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts or watch us on YouTube, yeah?

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