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Dec. 6, 2022 - This Past Weekend - Theo Von

03:02:25

E421 Retired Police Officer

Sgt. Brad White has served both LAPD and the Whittier Police Department. During his 20 year career in Southern California, he served as a detective in narcotics, robbery, and homicide. Brad consults and speaks on Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and is an advocate for the mental health of first responders. A retired police officer and homicide detective joins the show to talk to Theo about crime, guns, drugs, witnessing extreme violence, and what it's really like to be a cop in America. Contact Brad: brw372@gmail.com ------------------------------------------------ Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com Podcastville mugs and prints available now at https://theovon.pixels.com ------------------------------------------------- Support our Sponsors: Manscaped: Go to https://www.manscaped.com to get 20% off with code THEO. Keeps: Visit https://keeps.com/theo to receive your first month of treatment for free. RocketMoney: Visit https://rocketmoney.com/theo to start canceling unwanted subscriptions today. It could save you hundreds per year! Babbel: Visit https://babbel.com/theo to get 55% off your subscription. DraftKings: Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app, use promo code THEO, bet $5 pre-fight moneyline on any fighter to win and get $150 in free bets if they do! If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/LA/MI/NJ/PA/TN/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH/KS), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visit OPGR.org (OR), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA(select parishes)/MI /NJ/ NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. Void in ONT. $150 in Free bets: Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 pre-fight moneyline bet. $150 issued as six (6) $25 free bets that expire 7 days (168 hours) after being awarded. Bet must win. Stepped Up: Void in NJ. Valid 1 Profit Boost Token per customer. Token must be used on 3-leg same game parlay bet for UFC 282. Max. $50 bet. Token expires at the start of the main card fight and must be selected before placing bet. Profit boosted 50% on net winnings. Net winnings is the total payout less original bet amount. Profit Boost Tokens have no cash value and are valid only on DraftKings Sportsbook. Ends at the start of the main card fight of UFC 282. See eligibility & terms at sportsbook.draftkings.com/mmaterms. ------------------------------------------------- Music: "Shine" by Bishop Gunn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3A_coTcUek ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: tpwproducer@gmail.com Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: http://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Send mail to: This Past Weekend 1906 Glen Echo Rd PO Box #159359 Nashville, TN 37215 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers/ Producer: Colin https://instagram.com/colin_reiner See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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	Thank you guys.
	I look forward to seeing you Return of the Rat Tour.
	Hey guys, I want to thank you guys for tuning in.
	I also want to just offer up the disclaimer that today's episode contains material and stories and discussions that can be pretty graphic.
	They contain violence.
	They contain some gore.
	They are real stories that this police officer went through.
	And so we want to leave them in to honor and get the experience of what their life is like.
	If you have a problem hearing that sort of thing, if graphic content, some of it can be sexual in nature, some of it just contains some violence, then this may not be the episode for you.
	I just want to let you know that in advance.
	Thank you guys so much for the support.
	Today's guest is just a regular police officer.
	That's who he is.
	And he also, he made his way up to detective at some point, and he's not a media figure.
	He's not a, you know, some gun puppy or, you know, he's just a, he's a, he's someone who served.
	He's someone who has protected and served to the best of his ability.
	He spent 20 years on the force or forces in the Los Angeles area.
	We're grateful for his time today just to learn what it's like.
	Today's guest is a detective and officer, retired, Mr. Brad White.
	Shine that light on me.
	I'll sit and tell you my stories.
	Shine on me.
	And I will find a song I've been singing.
	I'm going to stay.
	I'm going to stay.
	Thanks so much for your time, man.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, really, really appreciate it.
	Yeah, I'm excited to learn about.
	So you've worked as police.
	Police.
	Detective.
	Detective.
	And a NARC.
	I was a narcotics.
	No, you were a narc?
	I was a narcotics for a while.
	Oh, dang, bro.
	Dude, they would always accuse people of being narcs when I was young.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	It's 21 Jump Street.
	Yeah.
	Oh, I remember one time, like, we went in the woods to smoke some weed or something.
	And like, it was like where you put the pin to get the can and put the little holes in the can, and then you put the weed on there.
	Absolutely.
	And right when I went to like hit it, like, I breathed out for some reason or like kind of sneezed or like coughed and it blew all the weed out of the bowl and just onto the ground.
	Absolutely.
	And people were like, you're a fucking narc.
	You know, people call me a narc.
	I think somebody, yeah, I think somebody fucking hit me in the back.
	But anyway, so as an officer, we're going to get into like, you've had a pretty crazy career.
	We're going to get into it.
	As an officer, take me, say if I go on like a ride along with you, right?
	Your first week on the job.
	We go on a ride along when you are a cop.
	Okay.
	What's that like?
	You're saying that it was my first week on the job.
	Yeah, I'm just trying to put myself like it right, like right there in the past.
	Okay.
	Well, first off, first week of the job, the first time that they actually put you out in the car by yourself, you know, I was 21 years old.
	So I remember driving out of the parking lot and, you know, getting ready to pull on that street and I'm in full uniform.
	You know, I got a shotgun.
	I got a gun.
	I got a police car.
	They're basically going out, saying, go out and do what you got to do.
	And I remember the feeling of it just going, these people are fucking nuts.
	You know, this is crazy.
	I'm 21 years old and, you know, I'm in this uniform.
	And they're literally sending me out to do what cops do.
	So it takes a little bit.
	I remember at the starting, it took a while to get used to.
	It's a tremendous amount of power.
	Oh, I can't imagine.
	That reminds me of even just when I got my first car and I'm driving off.
	I'm like, okay, I'm leaving home.
	I'm just, it's me out here.
	I can't imagine if there's also weapons.
	Weapons, shotguns, whole crew of guys out there with you.
	They're going to back up whatever it is you do.
	It's pretty substantial for a young kid, especially at that age.
	I can't even imagine.
	Yeah, too young.
	21's too young.
	My belief is 21's too young.
	I think there needs to be a little bit, you need to be a little further into life, but they pull them as early as 21. Wow.
	So you're rolling out there 21. You got the guns, you got the weaponry, you're cruising.
	Are you like, is there part of it, is it excitement too?
	Is it just fear?
	What is it?
	You know, there wasn't a lot of fear, a ton of adrenaline, ton of excitement.
	You know, you've already gone through a long process, the academy where you've been, you know, gone through a lot of training and seen a lot of scenarios and heard a lot of stories.
	So, you know, when you first get out there and you get on the streets, it's pure adrenaline.
	I don't ever remember being initially scared.
	Okay.
	Fear wasn't really a factor.
	It was just too big.
	The group was too big.
	There was too much.
	I mean, you got a gun, for God's sake, you know, you're going out on your own.
	What music did you listen to?
	Like, what song do you put on that first time now?
	Actually, none.
	I didn't.
	When I got into narcotics, when we would go to search warrants, we would always, all the guys would wear, you know, headsets on the way to the location.
	We always listen to our own music.
	I listen to, for scenarios like that, I listen to Danzig, mother.
	I don't know why, but that was a big one for me.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, just the lick itself.
	But I actually would listen to my generation.
	I would listen to a lot of Easy Easy, six in the morning.
	Oh, yeah.
	You know, stuff like that.
	I like it.
	Six in the morning, police at my door.
	Okay, so you're out there, someone you're rattling your first week.
	Does it get kind of wild your first week?
	What's that like?
	No, it's just getting used to it.
	You know, just kind of figuring out how it's done.
	Again, it's a tremendous amount of power and everything's new.
	I mean, I can remember being 21 years old, going to domestic violence calls and, you know, going to.
	You haven't even had any domestic violence in your own life.
	I didn't even have a girlfriend at that point.
	I didn't know anything about relationships, but you would go into these situations where people were in turmoil, you know, and there was real problems.
	And they would look at you and go, you know, what are you going to do?
	What are we going to do?
	And I remember thinking in my mind, like, well, I got no fucking clue, you know?
	Would you ever call your mom and be like, mom, what should I even do?
	No, I never called my mom.
	I never called my mom and asked about Shadow.
	I probably should have, but you just kind of wing it.
	You know, it's really changed the way I look at everything, those scenarios, because there was a real expectation like I knew what I was doing.
	Wow.
	Especially being young.
	They just, because you're in that uniform, they think that you know what the next step is as far as solving the situation.
	And you really don't.
	For a long time, you wing it.
	Within the law, there's all kinds of statues and laws that y'all follow.
	But when they start asking for advice or, you know, it's crazy, the expectation that you have a clear understanding of what to do in any given situation.
	Wow.
	And the situations vary.
	Yeah.
	So it must be crazy.
	So like a lot of times you are, when you encounter someone, they need they're having the worst day or it's their, they need help.
	It's like the look in their eyes, it must always be one of like panic or fear or.
	Yeah, generally you're dealing with people's worst day, no matter what it was.
	You're never going to a scenario where people are happy and things are going well.
	It's always bad situations.
	Even it's as simple as a ticket, you know?
	For some people, a ticket's a humongous ordeal.
	Oh, yeah, dude.
	You get a ticket, dude.
	I remember I got three tickets before I even went to court for my first ticket.
	I got my first ticket.
	I actually got my first ticket on the way to being sworn in in downtown LA.
	It's the first time I ever drove in downtown LA.
	And I made an illegal U-turn and ended up getting a ticket.
	Even showed the guy the paperwork saying, I'm getting sworn in.
	I'm one of you guys.
	And he still wrote me a ticket.
	Dang, we got to make those quotas.
	Yeah, that's what they say.
	So tell me like one of the craziest things that kind of happened out of the gate, like something that's kind of wild.
	The first time I witnessed someone die, which is in 20 years, there's been quite a few of those.
	But the first one I ever watched was a, I got a radio call.
	I was very young.
	I got a radio call.
	I was in the LA area and it was with a subject with a gun.
	And they gave us a description.
	And when I pulled up to the location, it was like a waffle, not a waffle house, but like a chicken place or something.
	And I saw the guy out front based on the description.
	It was a kid wearing a red puffer jacket.
	And as soon as I pulled up on the kid, he bolted.
	So chased him a little bit with the car as long as I could.
	Eventually, he started cutting through businesses and so on.
	So I'd go out on foot.
	We had a foot pursuit that went on for a little bit.
	I chased the guy through, you know, some parking lots and so, such.
	And the kid ended up running into the street.
	I believe it was right at Manchester and Gramercy.
	And the kid ran right out into the street without checking traffic and he got hit by a car.
	I was, I don't know, 20, 30, probably not even that far.
	Probably about 20 yards behind him.
	So it was right in front of me.
	He was hit at full speed.
	It was, it was, it was brutal.
	It was brutal.
	The kid, he was a mess, you know, and it was the first time I ever witnessed someone die.
	Wow.
	And so are you at that point, are you still like in pursuit or at that point it immediately you recognize, oh, this is a bad situation.
	Now this has changed?
	There's just a lot of dynamics to that because there's a lot of civil, when you're a cop, there's just a lot of civil liability in no matter what you do.
	You know what I mean?
	Even in a scenario like that, when you're, when you're going after someone that has, is in the commission of a crime, the fact that they're running from you and you are chasing them, it puts you in some kind of civil liability for it.
	That I realized at a later time at that point, because I was so young, it was just, it was overwhelming.
	I mean, I couldn't even talk.
	You literally had to stop and I lost my breath.
	I remember losing my breath and not being able to breathe for a second just because it was just, it was incredible.
	It probably just happened like that.
	Like that.
	And it was brutal.
	And it was, and you just don't even know how to react.
	You know, it's, it's, unless people come out of their shoes when they get hit like that.
	Yeah, people do come out of their shoes.
	No way.
	People come out of their shoes.
	Yes, people come out of their shoes.
	Traffic accidents are probably some of the most simplistic, horrific things that you experience for sure.
	And so when that guy gets hit, do you have to go render aid then?
	But yes, yes, I can give you a lot of examples of having to render aid in situations that were, you know, an example being another simple thing that you respond to, a drowning in a pool.
	You know, I went one time to a kid that had drowned in a pool.
	And you want to talk about panic.
	You want to talk about adrenaline is you get a radio call.
	They give you an address.
	And I'm old enough now.
	I'm retired.
	When I started, there was no Google Maps.
	There was none of that.
	Basically, it came over a radio.
	You had a little pad of paper in the middle of your car.
	You wrote down the address real quick.
	You had a Thomas guy.
	I remember that.
	Yeah.
	And 50,000 page Thomas guide.
	There were so many pages in there.
	And then somebody would steal a page.
	Yeah, well, they wouldn't steal them out of your page.
	Right.
	They would steal out of the public link.
	Now I can't go to seven square blocks of the city, even if I want to.
	Right.
	These ones we would mark up and tab so that it was a little easier to access.
	Okay, so you got a little bit of like filing in there.
	But you want to talk about having a heart attack.
	You know, I'm trying to find this and realize this is a situation that's time is of the essence.
	But you would get to these, you would, you know, lights and siren, the adrenaline's pumping, you're going, you're hoping and making a wrong left turn or something and finally getting to the home.
	And in this scenario, I'm telling you about, it was a child, very young, had already been this, it was deceased.
	When I got there, for whatever reason, panic, whatever, no one had gone into the pool.
	I think the scenario was the mother couldn't swim.
	So she was on the steps standing there, you know, got rid of the equipment I could, jumped in the water, got the baby out.
	The baby was very obviously gone.
	But even in that scenario, I remember administering CPR just for the optics of it.
	Yeah.
	You know, just to show I'm doing everything I can because you want to talk about pain and panic.
	You know, you talk, you, you, you, you observe a mother, which is another thing that was, that was frequent and very difficult to deal with is watching that pain and panic.
	So I remember giving CPR to a child that was clearly gone until the fire department got there.
	And they usually take a while because we're on the streets.
	So we get there really quick.
	Any 911 call comes in, goes to the police department.
	They dispatch a cop, then they call the fire department and they come.
	And fire department, you got to get eight guys on the truck.
	It's so hard to get eight guys to do anything.
	You know, if you've ever been to Vegas or whatever, you know, it's like you try to get guys to go do anything.
	It's like nearly impossible.
	Wow, man.
	Oh my God, Brad.
	There's so many moments in there of like you've gotten this child out of the pool.
	You are like now almost returning this child to the mother in a way.
	I mean, physically, you're bringing, you know, like they expect you to be able to solve it.
	Is there any of that?
	Essentially, yes, there's hope, you know, but it's really, it's the optics.
	It's just, I'm doing everything I can.
	Those kind of situations, the panic and the pain is so overwhelming.
	And that's something people don't take into consideration in police work.
	It happens a lot.
	There's a lot of stuff.
	I can tell you so many scenarios like that where, you know, you're doing everything you can, even though there's just not a lot you can do.
	Right.
	You're just, well, you're just a human.
	Yes.
	And what they don't teach you, at least they didn't when I started in the academy, number one killer cops is suicide.
	Really?
	Number one killer of cops is suicide.
	And you have a gun.
	Yes.
	So you're halfway there if you want to.
	Oh, gosh.
	Yeah, we had a guy that was in the police department right next to us, ended up getting to his car and with his duty shotgun blew his head off right before he went out for the shift was supposed to start.
	But the number one killer is cops.
	They never tell you that.
	They never talk about mental health.
	I went through the entire academy.
	They taught me how to put on a tourniquet, heal a sucking chest wound.
	They taught me so many things, but they never made one mention of how to, you know, how to work with your own head.
	Wow.
	You know, they never said suicide is the number one killer of cops.
	I think that's changed.
	I know it's changed, but it's getting a lot better.
	But at that point, there was no mention of that.
	And these things accumulate.
	I'm giving you one portion of one day.
	Oh, I can't imagine, especially like, you know, like I grew up with a lot of childhood trauma and a lot of people have, right?
	And it's really common.
	And that is tough enough to deal with in regular life as it comes up later and you realize the ways that it affects you as an adult, right?
	Yes.
	I can't imagine whatever traumas you already have or things that could have happened in your past, and then you're now just engulfed in this.
	You're like a, do you feel like a damn for trauma for people?
	Like, do you feel like a reciprocal for it?
	I mean, yeah, because there's so many things and then you just have to go on to the next call.
	Is there?
	It depends.
	You know, people don't take it.
	It's just, there's no way to really understand all the things that you experience just in the shift, let alone over a 20-year career, especially if you're working in different assignments.
	I could tell you so many stories.
	If you could ask questions, I'll think of something.
	I'll tell you a story that you'll just go like, holy crap, you know, from the simplest thing of I had a, I had an old lady that was at a church meeting at an El Torito.
	There was an El Torito in Whittier, and she ended up collapsing.
	She had a heart attack.
	And we got the call and we get there.
	And by the time we got there, there's a bunch of old women that are in a circle.
	Oh, y'all betting on her, probably.
	Well, they're doing, I think it was, they're doing tongues, you know, they're praying and tongues and all kinds of craziness going on, but no one's doing anything.
	And I remember giving this lady, and at that point, we had these respirators where you could, it's like a bag with the thing goes over the face so you don't have to put your mouth on them.
	Well, I had ran in and forgot it because it was in the trunk.
	So, this is another woman that I gave CPR, going back to more CPR stuff, and she ended up vomiting in my mouth where my mouth was on hers in a way that it forced past my throat.
	So, I vomited immediately when I came up off of her on top of her.
	The entire scenario in itself, now I laugh about it when I tell the story.
	Yeah.
	But it was just traumatic, man.
	The whole thing was just traumatic.
	They ended up passing.
	They transported some, but the whole situations, I'm giving you minor ones, you know?
	Right.
	Well, yeah, I'm sure.
	She vomits into you.
	You vomit into her.
	I mean, I think that's a honor.
	Yeah, that's a wedding in some countries, I feel like.
	You know, I don't know what some of the rituals are, but I think if you're in like Laos or something, that you guys are itched.
	But she, she, so she came back at that moment and survived for that moment.
	Fire department got there.
	Apparently, she had a pulse when she left, so I was feeling pretty good.
	But I found at the end of the shift that she had passed.
	But there's so many.
	So tell me, give me a call.
	Like, give me the first call where you have to go into a place.
	Like, what's it like when you have to walk up with your weapon out?
	That has to seem crazy because then you're like saying, okay, I'm in control.
	It gives other people a sense that you're in control of everything.
	I guess it does.
	Things have changed.
	You know, things have changed for law enforcement.
	When I first started, I started right at the Rodney King time.
	Okay.
	That's right when I started.
	So when I got into law enforcement and I was a rookie, things were starting to change.
	They were, you know, people want the world policed.
	They just don't want to know how it's policed.
	That's true.
	And as with technology, there's come the ability to see more of what policing is.
	And at that point with the Rodney King thing, things started to change in law enforcement.
	They started to change the process because police work was really hard to look at.
	You know what I mean?
	And that dissemination of that information wasn't very prevalent because you didn't have social media, podcasts, and all the different things that we have now.
	So when I started, it really started to change as far as how we address things.
	You will always hear people complain about, oh, he gave me a traffic ticket.
	When he walked up to the car, he had his hand on his gun.
	And that is just a routine part of your training is that you have no idea what you're walking up to.
	You walk up to some, you pull someone over for speeding and you walk to their car.
	You have no idea what you're walking up to.
	You don't know who it is.
	You don't know what they've done.
	You don't know where they came from.
	You have no idea what's going on.
	Yeah, we had an officer that did a traffic stop and there was a body in the trunk.
	Oh, wow.
	You know, he didn't even, he gave a ticket and left.
	The only reason we found that out is he got pulled over again.
	They found this ticket going.
	This guy's got pulled over an hour ago and they ended up finding the body in the trunk.
	So the first guy didn't find the body?
	No.
	No.
	So the guy thought he got away, but he got pulled over again.
	But the whole gun concept of it is things happen fast, man.
	Things happen fast.
	You'll die in a hundredth of a second.
	People don't realize that.
	That's how you put your hands on the steering wheel, yada, yada, all the things that we say for our safety.
	And there's this expectation by the public of if someone comes at you with a baseball bat, high as a kite, sweating shirt off, crazy as, you know, and the expectation of the public is, is, well, you got to get a baseball bat and you got to fight him with a baseball bat.
	It's got to be fair.
	You know, you shot him.
	All you had was a baseball bat.
	And for me, guys that are cops, you hear that and you just go, that's insane.
	Do you really have an expectation, me, to get in a baseball bat fight?
	Yeah.
	You know, I'm not here.
	The only thing a cop's trying to do is trying to stop the situation.
	He's trying to eliminate the threat.
	Right.
	If there's some dude roving around with a baseball bat, I think you got to take him out the game.
	Depending on the scenario, like anybody, if you're in your home and someone breaks into your home, you still have an obligation.
	If someone breaks into your home in the middle of the night today, you still have an obligation to prove that you were in fear for your life.
	Wow.
	So if there's some guy standing in your bedroom and you wake up and you look and there's a guy standing there and you grab your gun and you eliminate the threat, you're still going to go to court and they're still going to try to prove that you were not in fear for your life.
	Who's going to try to prove that?
	Is that more lawyers or is that more the actual criminal because he doesn't want to go to jail?
	It's going to go, it's just a whole process.
	It's going to go to the detective.
	Detectives can take it to the district attorney.
	District attorney is going to take a look at it and make a decision.
	Is this something that we is, did this guy violate the law?
	Was he justified?
	Was he justified shooting this individual?
	So in that process, they'll look at it.
	You know, where was he shot?
	Was he shot in the back?
	Was he shot?
	Which there's an argument for that.
	Someone breaks into your house, you see them, you're scared, they take off running, you chase after them with a gun, and you end up shooting at them in the living room as they're going for the back door.
	You're all of a sudden, you're up for murder.
	Good point.
	You know?
	Yeah.
	And there's the whole thought process of that is, I don't want this guy to leave.
	What if he comes back?
	I'll never be able to sleep again.
	You know what I mean?
	There's no justification on your part.
	It's clear.
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	Now, can we carry guns in California?
	If you have a CCW.
	Okay.
	How do we know if we have that or not?
	You have to get it.
	It's like a license.
	It's like a fishing license, you know, a little more complex.
	California's tough.
	California's tough to get a CCW.
	You go to Texas, it's a lot easier.
	Yeah.
	And the logic behind that is, like, I personally believe, I know the big debate right now is guns, no guns, get rid of guns.
	That ship has sailed.
	Right.
	We became guns.
	And if we did do that, we said, bring all your guns in.
	The only guys that are bringing their guns are guys like me.
	Yeah.
	You know, the bad guys ain't bringing their guns.
	No.
	So that ship is completely sailed.
	So the idea for me is I feel like we need more guns.
	I think we need more guns in good people's hands.
	Wow.
	So how do you know then?
	Do you like do like how when you say good people?
	And do we need all types of guns?
	Like you see these young kids or, you know, a lot of these school shooters, you see people getting guns, like these high-powered rifles and stuff.
	For me, I feel like if you haven't served with that gun, like militarily, I feel like you shouldn't be able to have access to that gun, right?
	Like, cause at least then there's some, you're at least putting in the hands of maybe of someone that has some semblance of purpose, knows how to use it, I guess.
	I don't know.
	For some reason, that helps me a little bit think about that kind of stuff.
	But to think that like someone needs an assault rifle, like a 20-year-old, it just seems, that seems crazy to me.
	You know what?
	It does to me too.
	I'm not a gun guy.
	Since I retired, I've got some guns that my dad had since he's passed in the safe.
	I got my one gun I carried on duty.
	I don't have any more.
	Obviously, a lot of cops are gun guys.
	A lot of guys have AR-15s, you know, you name it, MP5s all the way down.
	I don't see the necessity for them.
	Again, you're going back to the problem.
	The problem is we can't get rid of them because all we'll be doing is taking them from the good people.
	And now we've got a whole bunch of, and when I say bad people, just people that would use that gun in a negative way.
	Right.
	You know, in the commission of crimes or whatever.
	So again, that ship has sailed.
	I'm not a hunter.
	I can't imagine killing anything.
	I even have a hard time fishing.
	You know, I just, I'm, I'm not that guy.
	But their justification always is hunting.
	Is it necessary?
	No.
	But I mean, it's, it's a waste of time.
	The ship sailed.
	You know, we just have to deal with what we have now.
	There's no collecting guns, not in this country.
	Yeah, I agree.
	It seems, it just seems almost like a battle cry that people, it almost seems like people then use it to just incite, like it's a nice dream.
	Yes.
	But it's just unrealistic.
	And also this country was kind of founded on somebody pulling a gun on somebody that didn't have a gun.
	I feel like maybe, I don't know, I wasn't there, but if like troops pulled the guns on the Indians and then they were, I just wonder if how much of that really goes over through time too, you know?
	Well, I think the big argument for gun nuts is, is that it's the government, you know what I mean?
	To never allow that situation to happen again where this power that is policing us can inflict their will on us.
	Well, that makes sense too, especially now with like social media platforms like people, you can't even say certain things.
	Yes.
	So people's voices have really been, I'm not saying they've been ceased because we have a voice here today, but they've certainly been corralled and earmarked with expectations, I feel like.
	So at that point, you're going to have a really tough time if people don't even have their voice anymore to take people's guns.
	You're just going to have a tough time doing it.
	It's just a conversation.
	It's a waste of time.
	Right.
	It's like it's across the board, all those conversations.
	The big conversation now end racism.
	Wouldn't that be wonderful if we could end racism?
	But we're never going to.
	Yeah.
	It's always going to be here.
	So we need to, that cry needs to change.
	It needs to be of individual accountability.
	That's the only, that is the only path that we have is individual accountability.
	Yeah.
	You know, there's always going to be bad people.
	You know?
	Yeah.
	What is that?
	Is that your phone or mine?
	Yeah.
	It is.
	It's okay.
	Do you need it to be on?
	No, I don't.
	Oh, a few minutes ago, it made that sound.
	It made me nervous.
	I thought I had a damn life alert bracelet that I forgot about.
	Life alert.
	So tell me this.
	Tell me about, let's, we'll get back into some of this stuff, man.
	And it's really interesting.
	And thank you so much for sharing your inside information and just some of your insight, you know?
	Pleasure.
	So take me on some of the drug stories because that's the part that seems kind of crazy.
	Have you ever roll up on some people and they're just yaked out of their brain, bro?
	And it's that late night hour, you know, maybe there's some hookers lurking or something like, because I've been there myself.
	So I'm just wondering how we, I've never had it where the cops show up, you know?
	So I'm just wondering, there's that weird edge, though, where you're like, damn, a cop, you know.
	I've had in NARCs and out of narcotics.
	I'll give you a patrol one.
	Very early on, middle of the day.
	I remember it was hot.
	It was summer.
	We got a call about an individual in the middle of an intersection naked.
	So we drive down to the intersection.
	We're talking about a busy, busy.
	I had started in South Central.
	Busy intersection, middle of the day, huge, huge dude in the middle of the intersection, butt naked, covered in sweat.
	Damn.
	Going in circles, which was causing in the middle of the intersection people to slow as they were going through.
	So what he was doing as they slowed, he would run up to their car and try to dive through their window or break the window out.
	Oh, wow.
	And then people would panic and take off and leave.
	This was back when I started, and PCP was a big deal in Los Angeles.
	And based on what I saw, that's pretty common.
	Guys on PCP to shed their clothes.
	And was it a more of a drug?
	Some drugs are for certain are used more in certain communities.
	Was it more of a black community drug, a white community drug?
	Was it more of a poor drug, a rich drug?
	It was a black community, Hispanic community.
	Again, I can't, I can't.
	I know that's not definitive, but yeah.
	But the problem with that, for me to tell you, I'll tell you what it was, and that's what I experienced in the neighborhoods.
	But I started in a black community.
	I was in South Central, and I moved on to Whittier, which was a Hispanic community.
	So those are the, and there was, Whittier was a little bit more mixed, but predominantly Hispanic.
	So my interpretation of any of this is just what I experienced.
	I can't tell you much more.
	Oh, I see what you're saying.
	Got it.
	So yes, it was very prevalent in the black community at that time.
	They used to smoke sherms.
	They used to taste.
	Yeah, that's what I would hear.
	I've seen it on movies and stuff.
	They would feature that on movies, I remember.
	Crazy.
	Wow.
	That shit was crazy.
	And that shit really died off.
	It died off quick.
	By the time.
	Were they marching or dancing?
	Was there any kind of like fluidity to it?
	Was it like capoeira kind of?
	Or was it like just like a maniac, like a wrestler coming into the ring?
	Like, was there any?
	Fucking maniacs.
	Wow.
	Yeah, completely, totally out of control.
	Completely and totally being for being conscious, they were totally incoherent.
	Wow.
	There was no reasoning with them and they were extraordinarily strong.
	That drug would bring out extraordinary strength.
	Yeah.
	So when we pulled up and I recognized this and I saw it, there obviously there was a situation where there was a threat to the public because this guy's trying to get into cars and people are still trying to pass.
	They're still trying to go through the intersection, even though there's this naked, you know, dude in the middle of it.
	So what I ended up doing is just driving around this guy in circles, clearing the intersection with my lights and siren on and all that noise and lights and the confusion kind of kept him in the middle.
	It kept him in the middle.
	He would walk a little bit, but I kept doing these circles until more police officers got there.
	And the good thing about Los Angeles is that when you call for help, there's so many neighboring police agencies, sheriffs, LAPD, yada, yada, that they're there quick and a lot.
	And we had a lot of police officers quick.
	So what we ended up doing is getting out of the car and kind of circling this guy.
	Well, now it's on because there's not a lot that we can do.
	And this is back in the day when we didn't have a lot of really efficient, less than lethal stuff.
	Right.
	I mean, they used to issue saps, which is crazy.
	A sap is a, it's a, it's a little leather club.
	Bring it up, Zach.
	Let's look at it.
	Yeah, it's a little leather club that has sand in it that sole purpose was just to beat on somebody.
	Wow.
	And the police uniforms had a little pocket in the back of the leg, and you put the sap in there.
	They even had sap gloves where you put them on and had the sand in the thing, which looking back now, yeah, there's all kinds of different examples of a sap.
	Those things hurt?
	Yeah.
	Those things are brutal and they're compact and they were very effective.
	If they were used in the right scenario, it totally outdated.
	They're totally gone now.
	We found much better ways to address situations.
	But back in the day, that's what they gave you.
	And how long was it?
	How long?
	It's like a couple feet.
	Oh, okay, dang.
	You know, something you can carry on you.
	But standard issue.
	Even then it went to the baton, which some people still carry.
	But the baton is becoming extinct because the baton is just, it's just the dynamic of the way it looks being used, it's just ugly.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, I agree.
	The optics of it.
	The optics is tough.
	And my friend Chad got a job after Katrina.
	They were hiring anybody to be security, right?
	Because they needed, you know, everything was unsecure.
	And he only weighed probably 95 pounds or something.
	He was small.
	I think he was like a premature baby or something.
	I don't know if he was premature.
	He was kind of immature, but he was, I guess he was premature or whatever, but he was probably, he probably had seven months on him, you know, gestating, you know?
	And so when he said when they gave him that Billy club, it weighed him down so much.
	Yeah.
	Just because of how strong he was that after like a week, it had like almost dislocated his hip just walking around.
	So he had to quit.
	Yeah.
	But that's a tool that died really after Rodney King.
	They still have them.
	They still carry them.
	They still train a lot in them, but it's just bad optics.
	Yeah, the optics of that went down after that.
	Okay, so go on.
	So anyways, we got this guy circle bull in the china shop, man.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And this guy is nuts.
	So now the situation is, is that, you know, again, police work a lot.
	Even back then, it's optics.
	Right.
	You know, we, everyone's watching you right now.
	So you, you not only have the dynamic of I'm dealing with a guy.
	And if I remember him, he was big and I'm a big guy.
	And I remember this guy was big and it was just intimidating and he's high as a kite and he's sweating and he's growling and the whole thing.
	So this is, this is not going to be a simple situation.
	Again, didn't have the tasers.
	We didn't have, we didn't have those things.
	What about a net?
	Didn't have a net.
	Didn't have, there's a lot of less than lethal stuff that they're introducing now that we just didn't have it back then, you know?
	And I guess it was because it's like anything.
	It's evolution.
	Right.
	You don't need it till you need it.
	Or you don't need it until whatever you had before is no longer socially acceptable.
	Right.
	Rodney King pretty much killed the baton.
	It really did, huh?
	It really did.
	And it's not a bad thing.
	Yeah.
	You know, they found better ways.
	But we didn't have it back then.
	So now the situation was how, so we're going to have to bum rush this guy.
	We're all going to have to go in and get this guy.
	I actually had this scenario twice.
	Well, in police work, the newest guys get the worst assignments.
	You know, unfortunately, in that scenario right there, it was a lot of different agencies that everyone didn't know.
	So I remember the sergeant pointing out guys that were obviously new and they essentially rushed this guy who's completely naked on a 100 plus degree day on the asphalt in the middle of an intersection in Los Angeles and it was on.
	Wow.
	And I mean, it was on for a while.
	And then once one guy got him to the ground and everyone gets in.
	And even when you have, you can only have so many people involved just because of space factor.
	You know what I mean?
	And even with having five, six, seven, eight, nine guys on this guy, it took 15, 20 minutes to get him in custody, you know, to actually get his hands behind his back and get handcuffs on.
	Right.
	By the time that shit's done, you're covered in all kinds of shit.
	Yeah, I'm sure.
	You know what I mean?
	You've been out there.
	Yeah, you're good.
	Yeah.
	And especially when you guys all go running at him, I bet it's like, it's almost like spin the bottle.
	Like the last thing you want to get is a guy who runs right at, you know, straight at his wiener.
	Exactly.
	To be honest.
	Totally.
	The other scenario I having that, to make it real quick, we had a guy that we got a call.
	Someone saw a guy looking through their window.
	A little girl saw a guy looking through her window.
	Oh, man.
	Keeping Tom.
	Essentially.
	We get to the house.
	We get to there.
	She shows us the window.
	We find the window.
	Below the window, there's semen.
	Oh.
	So this guy had been looking through the window at the little girl and doing his business.
	Yeah, masturbating.
	There you go.
	And so we ended up looking for the guy.
	We ended up finding him in some bushes not too far away.
	Again, white guy, creepy, tall, totally naked.
	Yeah.
	And his testicles were the size of a softball in purple.
	And what we later found out is he had tied a kite string around the base of his balls.
	And for some reason, that did something for him.
	But what it did do is it made his balls really swell up.
	Yeah.
	And it was visible.
	So you got a guy that's completely sweaty.
	He's not coming out of the bushes.
	You see he's got big, giant purple testicles that something's wrong.
	Again, got all the officers there, circled it.
	At that point, I was the youngest.
	This was just our police department.
	So they go on in there and get this guy out.
	So I had to spend about five minutes wrestling a dude that's naked with big, giant purple balls and a kite string around it, dripping in sweat while all my peers and friends were around me pointing and laughing.
	Literally.
	It was crazy.
	It was crazy.
	And then at the end of it, when I booked him in, I had to cut the string off him.
	Oh, come on.
	Can't put him in the jail cell with that on?
	Like it's a grand opening or something.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I actually had to cut the string off and book it in as evidence.
	Oh, man.
	And did those nuts subside once you took that string off him?
	I don't remember.
	I don't remember.
	That was the last, that was the only visual I was trying not to deal with.
	You know, I remember it being very difficult to get those scissors in there.
	You know, I had to cut that thing off.
	Can't give him scissors and tell him to do it.
	It's a situation where you just can't do that.
	Booking people was, booking people was tough.
	Yeah.
	I had a homeless guy that I booked, and you have to do a strip search on everybody.
	No.
	Oh, yeah.
	You can't put them in the cell.
	You can't put him in the cell without doing a strip search.
	You got to make sure they don't have anything that they're going to hurt themselves or others with.
	So every single guy that you arrest, you essentially see the crack of their ass.
	You see him naked.
	I had a homeless guy where got him naked and squat and cough.
	And when he squat, we have him turn the opposite way.
	We have them squat and we have them cough and spread their butt cheeks to make sure that they don't have anything in their butt.
	Oh, yeah.
	And he had heroin balloons all matted up in his asshair where he had obviously put them in there to hide them.
	Oh, yeah.
	You know, they're little colorful balloons.
	That's how they would do the store the heroin.
	They put it inside deflated balloons.
	So we told him, take, you know, you need to pull those out.
	Pull those out.
	And the guy wouldn't do it.
	You know, fuck you.
	You do it.
	You get them out, which is a great move on his part.
	At that point, I was a rookie.
	So I had the assignment of pulling, getting butt heroin balloons out of this dude's butt hair.
	Damn, that's that Colombian birthday party, dude.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That's crazy, man.
	Have you ever had to get, how much drugs can people put in their butt?
	I guess that depends on who it is.
	We had a guy that tried to end the jail.
	He kestered a racquetball, which he had slid open and put the drugs inside of it and then put it up his butt.
	A racquetball.
	What is it?
	A racquetball, you know?
	A racquetball is like a little smaller than a tennis ball.
	Racquetball.
	You know, racquetball?
	Yeah, I'm thinking about it.
	It's just not registering.
	They're blue, rubber.
	Oh, yeah.
	He got that into his butt?
	Got it in his butt.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	That's relatively, that's, I think that's not relatively too big.
	I've seen guys with Coke bottles that they put in there.
	A guy put a Coke bottle in his butt, but it was open.
	It was an open Coke bottle, but when he put it in for the suction, when he tried to pull it out, he couldn't get it out.
	It formed a suction issue.
	So we had to transport this guy to the hospital to have it in an emergency room surgically removed.
	Oh, man, that'll make you switch to Pepsi, huh?
	But also, that's like that Sir Galahad or something.
	What's the one where they try to pull the thing out of the- Yeah, it's like Sword in the Stone.
	Pretty humiliating situation.
	Tough ride to the hospital.
	I felt for the guy, you know?
	And you can't sit down.
	That's got to be the worst thing.
	You keep thinking you can sit down and then everything goes.
	Humiliating.
	Imagine having to walk into an emergency room, you know?
	to get a Coke bottle removed from your...
	Yeah, and if it's glass, huh?
	It's glass.
	Oh, that's so risky.
	Yeah.
	God, it's almost like that.
	It's like Don't Wake the Baby or one of those games.
	I feel like it has like a real game show element to it.
	Yeah.
	That is the most Japanese game show element to it I've ever heard.
	You know, I feel like.
	It's the thing about police work that people don't realize is that you're, this is the craziest shit.
	You know, it's just people don't realize that.
	People don't realize that.
	They don't even think about it.
	They watch the movies.
	There's an infatuation with police work.
	You watch all these movies that you see.
	None of them, none of them really.
	There's a few.
	There's a show called The Southland, which actually one of our officers' wife was in the business and she was somehow involved.
	And you could tell that someone knew about police work was involved in that.
	But when you watch like Training Day and all the other stuff, they're great entertainment, but people think that's real.
	They don't know what it's really like.
	That's why these opportunities for someone like me to come and I have no ties.
	I'm retired.
	I don't even, I want to do guys right that are in the job.
	This gives me an opportunity to explain.
	This is what it's really like.
	So there's an out.
	I mean, you just don't, you, any day, it could be absolutely anything.
	Like it's like the levels of things, it almost feels too vast.
	It is.
	It is.
	It's every day.
	It was, I loved the job.
	By the time I got out, I had to get out because it just, it wear, your life changes.
	I start, I had a child and, you know, seeing dead children, just all the different things that you experience as life goes on.
	It starts, it starts to wear you.
	It starts to beat you down.
	That's, that's why cops retire at 50. It's, it's, you got to get out.
	Mentally, you got to get out.
	It's just too much.
	It's too much.
	The physical aspect's not that big of a deal, but the mental is you see everything.
	I, I mean, I can tell you, gosh, I could tell you.
	What about a jumper?
	You get a jumper?
	No, there was nowhere where I was in Whittier.
	There was nothing that high.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, Whittier's pretty flat.
	I had, um, I had a here's a crazy scenario that we dealt with.
	We had a call in the middle of the night of a female bleeding profusely.
	We got to the house, and this dude answers the door, and he is a tweaker.
	I mean, this guy is high as a kite, stereotypical.
	Oh, yeah, fucking radio shack manager.
	Totally.
	Shirt off, tripping out.
	Just came back probably collecting copper on his bike.
	And how do they answer the door?
	Is it always like, is there one common way that tweakers answer the door?
	Like, what's up?
	No, not really.
	They don't answer the door.
	Usually they just see the blinds open a little bit.
	Bam, you know, and you can see, okay, they're inside.
	But this guy answered the door because he needed us.
	The situation was, is that he was with his girlfriend and they were both Heisakai.
	It's like four in the morning.
	And when we walked in, she's laying on the floor in the living room and there's blood everywhere.
	There's blood all over her legs and she's holding an old nasty t-shirt on a crotch.
	And this t-shirt is pretty saturated.
	So when we start talking to this guy in his, you know, in his tweaker way, he starts to explain to us that they were being intimate, intimate.
	And during that, they had gotten a dildo, a really large purple dildo.
	And he had taken a coat hanger, those old school metals coat hangers, and he had unwound it.
	You know how when you like, if you're doing marshmallows?
	Cooking marshmallows?
	How do you do that?
	Well, he essentially made it like that, but he took the end of that, the pokey end, and he stuck it into the end of the dildo.
	And then he bent that coat hanger so it was a handle.
	So he was using that on his girlfriend.
	Right, so he was really, Yeah.
	He was getting in there and doing what he could.
	Yeah.
	He was making it happen.
	He was trying to jumpstart that cooch.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So what ended up happening was, is those pokey ends ended up coming through the side of the dildo.
	So when he was doing it, he was essentially cheese grating her insides.
	Bro, I feel like right now my pussy hurts me.
	Oh, yeah, it does.
	To this day, it bothers me.
	I don't even have a pussy.
	Right?
	To this day, it hurts me, you know?
	But so when he described, and when he held that, we said, where is it?
	Where's the item?
	And when he went and got it and held it up, there was literally tissue.
	There was tissue that was on the thing.
	So this was bad.
	This is a situation that was bad.
	But that's about as bad as it gets, right?
	Yeah.
	Do you press like a, is it like a button you press when it gets too bad?
	No.
	Do you call when it gets too bad?
	You know what you end up doing when it gets too bad or cops end up doing?
	They end up fucking joking about it.
	Wow.
	They end up, it's a coping mechanism, man.
	And it just happens.
	And I can remember in that scenario, the hardest part in that scenario, I had been on for quite a while.
	And the guy I was with had been on for quite a while as well.
	In that specific scenario, the hardest part for us was not to start laughing.
	Wow.
	You know, because it was just so fucking crazy.
	It was just so crazy.
	He's standing in the living room with two tweakers.
	One's blinked profusely.
	He's holding up his cut tissue.
	The other problem was, is that we have a responsibility to render aid.
	Yeah.
	You know, civil liability is a big deal.
	When you're a cop, at any given time, you can lose everything because you fail to follow one part of your job description.
	Rendering aid is one of them.
	So I remember looking at the guy who had less time on me with the side going, now you know what the fuck you got to do, right?
	You got to apply pressure, man.
	And he's got to do it because he's younger.
	He's younger.
	Yeah.
	Well, he had less time on.
	Yeah, less time on.
	So I was, and that conversation, looking at your buddy and saying, look at T, you got to do this, man.
	The, the difficulty in not laughing in that situation, both of you, like you're facing, and him looking at me and going, there's no fucking way.
	There's just no fucking way I'm going to do this, dude.
	And you're going, no, you have to do this.
	Wow.
	Luckily, we were able to, we were having such a hard time dealing with not laughing that it went on just long enough that we heard sirens and it was a fire department, you know, and at that point, it's like, yeah, this is all you guys, man.
	Dang, this is all you guys.
	Dude, that's so interesting.
	So there must be such bonds kind of that are formed out there between cops, are there?
	Yeah.
	Because I would just feel you're going through such insane situations, you know?
	And it's so interesting that you guys use humor to cope because it's the same thing.
	It's the same thing why a lot of comedians get into things, you know, things were traumatic or some type of way.
	And so they used humor to survive.
	You know, I think it's amazing that Mother Nature uses that as like a like a governor on us, you know?
	Yeah.
	Where it's like, if you get so far, you just laugh.
	I think it's why the Joker laughs in the Joker movies because at a certain point, he's just so mad that there's nothing left to do but laugh at it, you know?
	Pretty much.
	The situations are so outrageous.
	And like you said, as far as the bonds, please, there is strong bonds.
	And I'm married, love my wife.
	We've been together for 20 years.
	We talk about everything.
	My best friend, my entire career, I never went home and I never discussed anything with her.
	Literally never discussed anything with her.
	There was never a good time to come home and say, hey, you know, I saw a fucking kid die today.
	You know, all the things that went on during the day, unless it was like really light and really fun, I never told her anything traumatic.
	Wow.
	Because it's just never a good time.
	You know, why would I want her to experience these, these, especially as time goes on, these horrific things?
	So the only people you do talk about that with are these guys that you're doing it with.
	And nine times out of 10, when you do talk about it later, it's just, it feels so inappropriate because you're, you're, it becomes a joke.
	Right.
	The most horrific situations, they become funny, you know, and it, and anyone else that hears that, it's, it is a hard pill to swallow, you know, it's a hard for the general public to go, why the fuck are they laughing?
	Right.
	You know, what's so funny?
	You'll see sometimes on TV, I'll see like homicide scenes on TV and I'll, I'll, I'll look at, because I'm conscious, I'm aware of this.
	I'll look at the officers around and you do it for now on.
	You'll see every once in a while, you'll see two guys and there'll be horrific murder scene, shootings, whatever.
	And there'll be two fucking cops right there and they'll be laughing.
	Wow.
	You know, they'll be communicating together and they'll be laughing and you go like, oh, dude, that's such bad optics.
	That's such, but you totally understand It.
	Right.
	You know, the rest of the world doesn't.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
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	Well, baldness.
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	Baldness.
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	Dude, there's so much pressure on you guys.
	Like how, what was that kind of like?
	What has that been like?
	Like the pressure that here's a young man who didn't grow up with any amazing or special skills.
	And now they're in charge of kind of being a jury at certain times, being like immediate aid, going into something they don't really know what's going on half the time.
	That person is required or expected to have all these answers, you know, and they have these tools on their belt that some of them are lethal that they're supposed to use.
	Jesus, man.
	There's a tremendous amount of training that cops get as far as all the stuff that you have and how to use it.
	As far as the pressure, like I told you earlier, number one killer of cops is suicide.
	People have always wanted, people want to go to bed at night and close their eyes and feel they're safe.
	That's the only reason we all sleep at night because we think there's people out there that are keeping us safe.
	That's a really good point, isn't it?
	It is.
	The second that the police are gone, somebody in your house is going to have to be at your window.
	Which is the craziest part of what's going on lately.
	It's hard to watch.
	I've escaped it.
	Even after Rodney King, there was a push, and I'm down for the push.
	I'm down for everything always getting better.
	In any facet, we can get better.
	We can do this better.
	But this is a very complex job that you can't identify everything you're going to come in contact with.
	There's no way to be ready for everything that happens.
	There's just no possible way in this job.
	And a large portion of these things that you're coming in contact with are life and death.
	They're brutal.
	A mom walking with her child saw a car coming.
	It was going to run the red light.
	She jumped back in the thing and lost her grip on him.
	Well, lost her grip on him and he got hit and sucked up into the wheel well.
	And you get there and there is no way to properly handle that situation.
	You know what I mean?
	There is no, there's nothing that can be done.
	And people don't understand that aspect of police work.
	You know, they ask a lot of police.
	When I watch what was happening, when I watch those videos of what was going on and you see it, you saw it spray painted all over.
	The ACAB, all cops are bad.
	Are you talking about during BLM?
	Are you talking about everywhere?
	And there was just this concerted push of demonizing a million people.
	And we've never really, we have done that, but we don't really do that to any other profession like we do cops.
	There's a ton of bad doctors.
	Oh, horrible.
	Ton of bad doctors just writing prescriptions.
	I used to catch them all the time, man.
	Fishers, they would just, what do you want?
	150 oxy?
	Here you go.
	Bam, bam.
	Just killing people left and right, you know, moralists, all for money.
	We've never had a concerted effort of demonizing doctors because the world feels like we need doctors, but they don't feel that way about police.
	Hell, they were saying, get rid of the cops.
	Yeah, that was insane.
	Insane.
	It's one of the reasons why I moved over to, I bought a house at Nashville about a year and a half ago, just because I was pretty sure it was a place where people could carry weapons on their own.
	So I just wanted there to be, I don't know, I know that there's people that like to hunt and I would rather have some of them be around in case things get, or at least somebody, you know, if somebody rolls into a diner, you know, with a, you know, losing, you know, with a weapon, there's going to be seven other guys in there who are going to find a way to finish their fucking eggs that morning.
	Which is, we were talking about earlier.
	You know, I believe that we need more.
	It's the only solution.
	We need more guns and more good people's hands at all times.
	More CCWs.
	You know, I really, truly believe that's what is CCW.
	Carry concealed weapons license.
	Yeah.
	Carry concealed weapon.
	Yeah, that's the thing.
	Well, it's funny because it's not even that is, I never even consciously made that choice, really.
	I just said, okay, I need to be in a place where I know that someone around me can have a weapon.
	Yes.
	And I can if I need to.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	It was just a, it was almost like a subconscious choice, really.
	Yes.
	Which is the issue with, you know, the, the, the way the community, the way they've, this concerted effort, and there's all kinds of reasons why it occurred, which, of course, none of us want to get in, but this effort to demonize these good people.
	I'll be honest, man.
	I, I'm not, I did police work for 20 years.
	It doesn't occupy me.
	I don't carry, I don't have a gun on me right now.
	I don't carry a gun because I feel like I don't need to.
	Police work is not, does not define me, but some of the best people I've ever met were cops.
	Yeah.
	Just really saw, and we came from all different places.
	My, me, how I got there was much different than the way most got.
	We were totally opposite.
	Yeah, there is a lot of guys that you see, you know, like they probably got their ass kicked through high school and became cops.
	But I found the majority of those guys, they were good dudes.
	There was guys that weren't, you know, but within police departments, especially now, they really police themselves and contain or get rid of those people.
	They don't want that either.
	Right.
	And a lot of cops are just really solid, solid human beings.
	And the world just recently, they tried to turn on them in their entirety.
	They did exactly what they said that is happening to other people.
	They completely stereotyped a million people.
	Yeah, it's crazy.
	Right, right.
	Yeah, it's like people saying don't stereotype, but then we're going to stereotype this huge group of people that are keeping us safe.
	And now we're less safe than we've ever been.
	Are we really?
	I was going to ask you that.
	Are we less safe than we've ever been?
	Absolutely.
	The whole idea of police work when I started, the whole idea of police work in its entirety was proactive policing, man.
	Get out there and find crime before it occurs.
	I want you to shake cars.
	I want you to shake cars means pull them over.
	Find out what's going on.
	Find out what they got stuff there.
	I want you to.
	Frisk, tickle.
	Yes.
	And there's a whole dynamic to that that's always in debate of like, oh, he stopped me because of this or he stopped me because of that, which is, it's, it's really not true, but it's too long of an explanation for that.
	But the whole idea of police work was is to find the crimes before they occurred.
	And now what has happened with what the demonizing of police and the way that they have unfairly attacked them, like I said, the expectation is of, oh man, he only had a baseball bat and you shot him.
	Right.
	You know, it's like, what are you talking about?
	Like this wasn't even a conversation.
	That was stomped down back in the day.
	That wasn't allowed to go very far because that's ridiculous.
	Right.
	But now guys are losing their jobs.
	They're not just losing their jobs.
	They're going to jail.
	So now literally, I still have my good friend of mine is the chief of the police department that I worked at now.
	And they're literally telling police officers, essentially, I only want you to deal with what we have to deal with.
	So cops aren't out there doing proactive policing anymore.
	They're not out there actively looking for stuff because they're literally scared that no matter what they do, the world's going to turn on them based on a video clip.
	Yeah.
	You know, or a concerted effort once that video clip is seen of all these people in high power positions that have the venue to disseminate all this information to turn on them and say, this guy did this.
	I can give you so many examples, which I'm not, but of cops being unjustifiably tried and convicted on television.
	On television.
	Wow.
	You know, where they've said, this guy is a bad person and look at what he did.
	Yeah, take me through one.
	It's interesting.
	Because I agree with you.
	I agree.
	It's impossible.
	How do you get all of the, how do you say all of these people?
	And I wasn't one of the people who jump on that.
	You know, I'm one of the ilk that it's like, yeah, maybe there's some bad guys here.
	Maybe there's some people that are untrained or not trained well.
	But I'm not, I have always felt like I've had a decent relationship with police unless I was doing something wrong.
	And in that time, I didn't have the best time with them, you know?
	And nobody wants to be held accountable.
	Even a housewife that gets pulled over for speeding.
	I mean, I've had women that look like mothers completely lose their shit on me.
	Wow.
	Just over a ticket.
	Just completely unreasonable, screaming, yelling, cussing.
	Don't you got anything fucking better to do?
	Oh, there's crimes going on.
	And that's just such an ignorant statement.
	We have to enforce all laws.
	There's reasons all laws are in place.
	But I'm trying to think of one recently.
	I don't know if you remember this.
	There was a scenario right after the big incident that occurred where I think it was like in Atlanta or something.
	It was two cops and they were trying to take this guy into custody and it was a drag out fight.
	They had the whole clip.
	I mean, they were fighting and the guy ended up, the suspect ended up taking the guy's taser.
	Remember, and he ran and he turned back and he shot the taser towards the cops.
	Okay, that guy's done.
	There's just, that's, that guy is unequivocally, the justification for a police officer to eliminate that threat is 100%.
	100%.
	Unequivocal.
	Because if you are a person, take, if you are a person, a cop's job is to identify a crime, to take that person into custody and to take them to before a judge and to have them processed for the crime.
	They're not there to administer punishment.
	I think that's where the problem with some cops gets.
	Some cops get so, some guy spits on your face.
	It's hard not to react.
	Yeah.
	I've had that.
	My name is Brad White.
	My name tag said B. White.
	When I worked in South Central, I had a guy actually come up to me and we were involved in a scenario where I was investigating a crime and he noticed my name tag and he decided to go on a tangent about it.
	I see how it fucking is, Officer B. White.
	You know, it didn't even register with me at that point.
	I'm like, oh shit.
	No, my name is Brad, man.
	You know, my name is Brad, dude.
	Right, you're missing the rad part.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude.
	I actually got my name tag changed because of it.
	I just didn't want to deal with that either.
	Yeah, I just didn't want to deal with that either.
	For sure, dude.
	But in the scenario that you saw with those two Atlanta cops, I mean, there's just those guys, that guy decided that he was not going to jail.
	Right.
	And he was going to do anything he needed not to go to jail.
	And that cop's job is, he can't just go, okay, fuck it.
	You know, you don't want to go.
	I'll see you later.
	Because now that guy loses his job.
	He has to take this individual in custody.
	There is no not doing it.
	Right.
	Because now if that guy goes and does something Immediately down the street.
	Done.
	Civil liability.
	Civil liability.
	And the cops are sued.
	Cops are sued.
	People lose trust in the police department.
	It's just, it's a very difficult dynamic.
	So those guys had no choice at that point, but they take this guy into custody.
	And when you're in a fight like that, when you're in a fight where someone's fighting a cop, I remember when I was a little kid, man, I knew if I run from the cops, I'm going to get my ass beat.
	That's just how it used to be.
	You know what I mean?
	That's how it was.
	That's my understanding of what it was.
	But if this guy is doing all of this to get away, he is capable of anything.
	And when you're in a fight like that as a cop, your thought process is, is if this guy overwhelms me, he's going to get my gun and I'm done.
	It's over.
	So immediately when someone starts really, truly resisting you physically, a cop's in a fight for his life.
	And the public doesn't understand that.
	Right.
	If you're fighting a cop, you're going to do whatever it's necessary.
	You've already demonstrated.
	Already crossed that line.
	Already crossed that line.
	I'm going to do whatever it needs to get away.
	So at that point, you're in a fight for your life.
	So those cops were so justified, even though that guy was running away, they started to chase them.
	When that guy turned and shot that taser at them, there's no, the probability of them knowing that that was a taser is minimal.
	Yeah.
	Absolutely minimal.
	And they put that on TV and they demonized those two guys without any kind of a hearing or any true information whatsoever.
	And it was criminal.
	It was criminal, but that goes on a lot.
	And if you notice, you never heard about that again because they put that to rest because that was totally justified.
	And all the powers that be that wanted to use that for their agenda, they even left it alone because it became pretty evident really quick once people started looking at it going like, what are they supposed to do?
	You know, what is the scenario that's supposed to happen there?
	Well, and so how bad is the media in all of this?
	How bad?
	How much have they become?
	Because, you know, it's funny, like it doesn't even seem sometimes like the government is the government anymore.
	It seems like the government is this LLC kind of of, or America's like this LLC of just like corporations and capital interests and that media kind of controls a lot of stuff.
	I mean, how scary is it to you guys?
	Because the media, somebody puts out a clip, some group uses it to kind of push their narrative or something like that.
	And then you got, and then police are like, what are we supposed to do?
	You know, it almost doesn't leave you a place to do anything.
	You know, is the media like, does it sometimes feel like the media is not on your side?
	Yeah, man, you're going into a whole thing recently that just seems like it's to be such a drawn out topic.
	But yeah, what's going on now, I never really dealt with, again, I never had a scenario where it was so high profile that I was dealing with the media on a personal level and have all knowledge of exactly what happened.
	But it does, it definitely appears like the media right now is using a million people.
	There's about a million cops, I think, in America as a tool, as a tool.
	They're definitely using it.
	And people don't ever stop and think, that's just a dude that needed a job, that got into this career, that's making a living, that goes home and has a family, is just trying to get back alive and is dealing with crazy shit all fucking day.
	And he's been dealing with crazy shit for like 15 years.
	Why are we allowing this?
	Why are we allowing this to happen?
	But nobody wants to be the person that stands and raises their hand because that's the next guy.
	So yeah, I'm not a media fan.
	I imagine most of America is not a media fan at this point.
	I think so too.
	Look, it's one of the reasons why we've been able to start like tertiary media things like this.
	Yes.
	You know, because mainstream, it was just too biased.
	It's so, it's bad.
	It's, if they give too much, the news got away from telling you what happened.
	And now they give you their opinion on what happened.
	And it's based on who that guy is and who's paying that guy or whatever.
	And it's based a lot of times by people that have grown up in a hypothetical, comfortable type of environment where they've never really need, you know, like they've never needed a cop, really.
	They've never, you know, except to maybe serve like a divorce paper.
	They've never need, like, they've never really been in an environment where it's like, okay, this is what life is kind of really like for other people, you know?
	People got no idea what's going on.
	People have no idea what's going on in the world.
	Again, most cops are cynical and calloused, and there's a fucking reason for it, man, because you spend 20, 30 years of going and dealing with the world shit every single day, you really start getting convinced, world's fucked up, man.
	This is a bad place.
	You know, I had a young, through my process, I had a baby and I still to this day go, how could, how could I, how selfish was it for me to have a kid?
	How selfish is that?
	I know what a shit world this is.
	I know what he's going to face.
	I know what could possibly happen.
	I know what walks the earth.
	It was so selfish.
	I wanted a kid so bad.
	I did it for me.
	And I never even took into consideration what I've done.
	He's going to have to, who knows what's going to happen to him.
	Well, I'll tell you one thing that could happen to him if you're a good dad.
	He's going to look up one day at his dad and he's going to love his dad so much.
	And he doesn't get to do that if you don't have him.
	So that's pretty cool.
	Yes, yes.
	And it will be for him.
	I'm just going to do it.
	I know what you're saying, too.
	Yeah, not for you, though.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And I'm not judging what you're saying.
	I'm just kind of sharing another.
	I'm trying to share something that makes you think positively about it too.
	I'm sure it's amazing being a dad.
	But yeah, I could imagine that.
	You're like, what am I bringing somebody really into?
	Because this world to me is tough.
	This world is ugly.
	This world, you don't, like I said, you don't know what's behind those doors.
	Cops every day get invited into people's homes uninvited.
	Yeah.
	You have never been in a home besides a party where people didn't want you there.
	We would go every day into people's home that didn't want us there and they had no choice.
	So every day we're walking into environments that normal people don't go into.
	And is it weird right when you walk in, like where do you stand in the room?
	That's what I always feel like sometimes I'm looking at cops.
	I'm like, it always seemed like, I don't know where, like, would I stand here?
	Would I stand here?
	It's, it's, there's so much training, even in that aspect, as far as tactical advantage and how you stand, gun leg back, you know, always being, they teach you what to watch.
	I went to so many behavior analysis courses where they would teach you based on the way people sit during interviews, if they're telling the truth, or the way someone's acting when they're sitting of what could possibly occur next.
	And everything's tactical.
	Cops do everything for a reason.
	Like they 90% of the time, they'll want to bring people out of their home because that's their environment.
	We don't know what's in that environment.
	We don't know what's behind that door.
	We don't know what's under that couch cushion.
	So they try to bring them into the most safe environment that they possibly can, which is usually to bring them out of the house.
	Everything a cop does on a call is all planned.
	It's all from training and there's all a process to it.
	Wow.
	Yeah, there's a lot.
	There's a lot that people don't even, you know, there's a lot to it.
	Man, it's really giving me, it just gives me a little bit more of an understanding kind of of, this should almost be a class, I feel like, in school when kids are growing up, you know?
	Yes.
	To have like a real, like, I don't give a fuck if I could spell, but if I have an understanding of what the people enforcing my community, what their lives are like, and what my responsibility then as a member of the community could be, that would be really, really valuable, I feel like.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, even cops still need it.
	I, before COVID, after I retired, I went in, my, one of my close friends in the police department, I became a patrol sergeant and it was a female, most squared away female cop you've ever seen.
	You just looked at her and she screamed, cop, great cop, good person, totally solid.
	As time went on, she started to deteriorate mentally.
	And because my generation had never been taught about it, we would, you know, you just need to sack, sack the fuck up, you know, toughen up, Thompson.
	Sick, you need a cup of sack the fuck up and let's get back to business.
	Yeah.
	So we fucking harden that vulva, buddy.
	That's it.
	You know, and we would not, we just didn't know what it was.
	Well, long story short, she ended up not showing up for work and she ended up killing herself.
	She ended up hanging herself.
	And I actually went to the house and found her.
	And with hindsight, looking back at it, there were so many warning signs.
	There were so many things that she did when she was begging for help.
	She actually came into the police department at one point and was hysterical and acting crazy.
	And I had a pretty good relationship with her.
	So I told my lieutenant, I'll go out and talk to her.
	And I went out and talked to her.
	And I remember walking in going, holy shit, she's going to kill herself.
	She's so bad.
	Like even thinking that, but it was almost like this passive, weird thing that we just think.
	I said it.
	I said it out loud.
	She's going to kill herself.
	She's that crazy.
	Things are that bad right now is what I was thinking.
	And doing what cops did, we made a fucking joke at her.
	I remember laughing.
	I remember laughing.
	And a week later, she was dead.
	And so even with cops, they have to learn about themselves.
	I was going and doing speaking based on my experience from that and some other things where I was going all over the United States and doing speaking engagements where I was teaching cops just about mental health, man.
	Knowing what can happen and how it happens and how you're not going to be aware that it's happening.
	And these are the warning signs.
	And don't fuck around because you're going to wake up one day.
	People don't think it'll be them.
	And it is.
	Yeah.
	And it's fast.
	Sometimes it is.
	Well, I think we could be at this part in society too, in a timeline of society where the receptacles we've been using to corral and to take care of like the drains,
	like the sieves, the things that are the things that we're that are, the people that are taking care of us, like mental health professionals, cops, it could be we're at this kind of tipping point as a society where it's like we've almost we've overburdened them,
	you know, and you know, I don't know that, but you start to wonder, like, at what point are we just not able to be the ones to like kind of dam or help alleviate whatever, all this kind of, whatever trauma or whatever it is, this continuing pieces of pain that are alive in the universe.
	Does that make any sense to you?
	Yeah.
	Because it's kind of ethereal kind of, I think.
	I don't know what ethereal means, but I understand what you're trying to say.
	They got to do it better.
	We got to do better.
	So what can we do then?
	What can we do for cops?
	What are we doing?
	So you said that it is.
	Oh my God.
	It's important.
	It is important, but I mean, we're so far down the ladder.
	As far as like that question of what can we do for cops, the first thing, just to get on the ladder, I would say, be fair, man.
	Be fair.
	You know, think about it.
	I'm estimating that, but I think there's like a million cops in America.
	There's a million people.
	What?
	We're talking about, let's say a thousand of them are bad people.
	A thousand of them.
	Is it our duty?
	Is it our job as police officers to identify those people and get rid of them?
	Absolutely.
	And I'm not here.
	I'm not advocating for police.
	I have no, there's no reason for me to.
	I'm being honest with you.
	I'm not trying to say, oh, cops are this and that, but you need to be fair.
	You need to be fair with cops.
	You know, a thousand of them are bad.
	Don't go into it with the thought process that you have.
	Don't participate in what you're seeing.
	You see people saying, you know, fuck the police or all cops are bad or defund the cop.
	You know, find a way to assist in that process of going, no, you know, that's not right.
	These are, we need to identify individuals and we need to have, and people, the argument they'll have is go, well, we can't have, we can't have one bad cop.
	You know what I mean?
	There's too much power.
	You know, we can't have one bad cop.
	I agree, but it's also fucking impossible.
	It's also fucking impossible.
	Yeah, it's totally unrealistic.
	And especially a pressure to put on these people that already have so much pressure on them.
	Yes.
	And it's not really probably going to change anything.
	It's just a bunch of battle cry bullshit that doesn't really, in the end, is it really changing anything?
	It's making us less safe.
	That's a good point.
	It's making us less safe.
	So we do have that, dude.
	I realize, I'm telling you, man, we're less safe.
	We are.
	We are less safe.
	It feels less safe out there.
	Yeah, we're less safe.
	Yes, we are, especially here in LA.
	We are, we are much less safe.
	Wow.
	Because we have a double whammy out here.
	Now it's shifting into where they're getting district attorneys that are eliminating crime.
	We're basically saying that there is.
	Right, there's no crime.
	There's no crime.
	Like a crime isn't a real thing.
	We're not going to press charges for it.
	Yeah.
	Like back when I was a cop, like if you went into a CVS and you shoplifted, we would go through a process of identifying, did you go in there with the intent to steal?
	Which is an easy process to do.
	Where's your wallet?
	I don't have a wallet.
	Where's your form of payment?
	I don't have any form of payment.
	I have nothing on me.
	Well, why'd you go into CVS?
	Well, it's obviously white in the CVS.
	You went in there to steal.
	So now it's not just a petty theft.
	Now it's a burglary because you went in there with the intent to steal, which makes it a different crime.
	So it's a process of identifying people doing wrong things and trying to get it to stop.
	I wasn't a perfect kid.
	I got arrested when I was a kid.
	I got arrested several times when I was a kid.
	Fortunately, I came in contact with police officers that from what I remember were just solid human beings.
	And I had a demeanor because of the way I was raised where I was very respectful, even though I was wrong.
	So I had a really good interaction, even though I was being held accountable.
	I went to juvenile hall, man.
	You know, I wasn't really doing anything.
	I wasn't doing, I wasn't stealing or I was, my parents were really strict.
	I took their car.
	First time I ever got arrested, I took my parents' car.
	You know, 15 years old.
	Yeah.
	You know, I wanted to go see my girlfriend.
	I came home, went to bed.
	And the next morning I woke up and cops woke me up.
	My dad called the cops, had me arrested.
	Because his, his thought process was, is now, now we're getting into shit where I'm going to start holding you accountable.
	And I used to look at it and go like, oh, dad, you're such a dick.
	How could you do that to me?
	But I look back at it now and go, thank God.
	Because I went through enough stuff where one day I went, that's it.
	I don't want to live like this.
	Matter of fact, I want to do the opposite.
	And all my shit was misdemeanors.
	And I was able to get rid of it and go through the process of becoming a cop.
	But it made a big difference for me when you say, like, how do we get rid of that one bad cop?
	It made a big difference for me where I was legally able to not make mention of the things that occurred to me as a juvenile because I got it expunged, my record.
	And it's clearly stated that you do not have to make that available.
	Okay.
	They do a whole background.
	They talk to people and the people that were in my life at that time, thankfully, didn't make mention of it either.
	So it was alleviated.
	So I was able to become a police officer.
	And it served me well, man, because I knew what it was like to be locked up in an 8 by 10 room for 23 hours.
	Right.
	Yeah, some semblance of it.
	It's a big deal to take away someone's freedom.
	It's monstrous.
	It's crippling.
	You know, I was 16 years old and I did six months in juvenile hall for taking my parents' car.
	Damn.
	That was back in the day.
	You know, you could kill somebody and you might not get six months.
	Yeah.
	You know, but my parents said, we want the maximum, yada, yada.
	But when I got out and I became a police officer eventually, I kept that matter of fact, shit.
	Someone's going to probably watch this podcast.
	My buddies are going to be like, dude, I never knew that about you.
	But it's just not something that I brought up because it made me feel less, lesser than the guys I was working with.
	They had this lifestyle that they deserved to be there.
	And I really didn't deserve to be there.
	I just got lucky.
	But it served me really, really well.
	I really had an appreciation of that process and what it does to a person, coming in contact with a cop, being arrested, getting put inside of a jail cell, being there for 23 hours, you know, at a time.
	I was a kid from Orange County.
	I got put in a jail cell the first day with this kid.
	It was an Asian kid.
	I don't know.
	Oh, yeah, I've seen him.
	Yeah, it was an Asian kid that was in there.
	And we started talking about what'd you do?
	And I said, I took my parents' car.
	And this guy went on the story was he was like a watching gang member and they were on the run and they were in a hotel and they had a revolver and they had played Russian roulette with it with a thing.
	And some dude ended up blowing his head off and they were scared because the gun was stole and they put him in the carpet and they cut the carpet.
	They rolled him up in the carpet and took him in the San Bernardino Mountains and lit him on fire.
	They got away with it for like six months.
	Oh.
	But I shit my pants, man.
	You know, I mean, when that guy told me that, I was like, holy shit, dude, I was scared to death.
	Yeah, fuck.
	I'm never working in flooring.
	I know that.
	But dang, no, that's crazy.
	If you're in a cell with that dude suddenly, you're like, damn, weird.
	Yeah, especially if you're like, this isn't the avenue I want to be going.
	Like, if this is even the intersection I'm starting to meet up with the world at, I want to do a U-turn.
	You were talking about local crime and stuff like that, or this type of break-ins and thievery and robbery.
	We had this thing that just happened yesterday at the Apple Store.
	Did you see this thing?
	No.
	And these are these smash and grab things that happen all the time?
	Yes.
	Yeah, this is somewhere here in California, I think, near Tahoe, but at an Apple store.
	And it seems to be, and for some reason, this seems to be like a, I don't know if this is like a black, it's like a black culture thing.
	It seems to be a lot of times this is kind of black guys.
	I know that's a generalization.
	I'm okay to make that.
	And I don't mean that in a rate, like black people.
	I'm just saying, I don't know if this is a, like train robbing is probably like a white crime, you know, like different people have sometimes different crimes in their cultures.
	I don't know if this, there's no way to police this, is there?
	What do you do here?
	You hear the people in here like, are we supposed to do something?
	What do we do?
	You know?
	Well, I do think we have gotten to a point in the world where we are eventually going to have to have someone with a gun everywhere.
	Wow.
	I mean, I'm talking security of some type.
	Right.
	Like if you go to, if like you're talking about like these, these, these shootings that they have at schools, we could, we could almost alleviate that tomorrow.
	We could almost take care of that situation tomorrow.
	And if you go to Israel and you try to walk onto a elementary school, there are two highly trained, highly armed military type personnel, usually more than that, that are guarding that school.
	Wow.
	That you can't, you can't even take pictures.
	They won't even let you take pictures.
	That would completely alleviate the situation that we have.
	I know they got like school resource officers, but it's one cop and it's big schools.
	Yeah.
	And that's just somebody fucking with a damn whistle.
	I'm talking about somebody there who's trained.
	Yeah.
	And a couple, highly trained, very visible.
	If there was a guy right there with a Gun, you know, that was in that store.
	But for some reason, society is still reluctant to go that direction.
	I understand it.
	Guns are scary.
	I understand that aspect of it.
	But I really feel like it's our only solution.
	You know, we can alleviate that situation.
	How do we stop that from going on?
	The only really way to do that is to hold.
	That's not the first time those kids committed a crime.
	No.
	Nobody walks into an Apple store, starts ripping fucking phones off the thing with PAC store.
	Those kids have committed a lot of crimes.
	And I guarantee you, those kids have been arrested, at least some of them.
	And the problem is the accountability is so low.
	Like my example, you know, I had the ultimate accountability.
	There's no difference between me and those guys.
	I'm not, you know, right.
	You're both humans.
	We're both humans, you know what I mean?
	And I was just held accountable, you know, and it changed the way I think.
	I didn't want that lifestyle.
	We're not doing that anymore.
	And people are seeing this on TV and they're seeing that they're getting away with it.
	And it's influencing other people to do it.
	Like, what the fuck, you know?
	Why don't we go do it?
	I want a fucking iPhone.
	14?
	Shit.
	You want 40 iPhones and a computer.
	And they don't have that guidance at home, maybe.
	They don't have that, you know, those parents that are willing to take the steps to change the behavior.
	Do you, so who would have to hire the security in that position?
	Would that be Apple would need to, or does it become a governmental issue?
	Because it's almost becoming more like we've ostracized our police departments publicly so much that security seems like it's going to become a lot more of a privatized type of thing.
	Do you?
	It's going to have to.
	You know, they can't really.
	I mean, they do.
	They have mall cops that are at actual real police officers at malls in some cities.
	They have cops that are at high schools.
	They do what they can, but it would require a lot more funding, which I don't quite understand why there isn't more funding, but it would have to be private.
	It's not like Apple can't afford to have some armed guards at every one of their stores.
	Sure.
	You know, and police would totally be behind it as long as there was proper training and communication.
	And we're going to have to go that route.
	It's eventually going to have to go that route.
	There's just no other solution.
	Yeah, I agree with you.
	We had this.
	What about these?
	They had a thing I was looking at.
	Zach, if you can find this, it was about they were going to do robots.
	This is in San Francisco.
	Robot Dog.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	San Francisco will allow police to deploy robots that kill.
	Yeah, so basically they're going to, this just came out.
	A lot of people were talking about it.
	But the important distinction is that they're not arming them with guns.
	They're arming them with explosives.
	And they claim that it would only be used in the most extreme situations.
	So they won't be armed with guns.
	It would be explosives.
	Yeah, I don't.
	I mean, San Francisco Police Department in itself is one that I, what you're seeing right there, take it with the great assault.
	I'm sure it's completely irrelevant of exactly what's going on.
	I mean, you can see the title, San Francisco allow police to deploy robots that will kill.
	That's a pretty absurd statement for what's probably really going on here.
	Right.
	And the Associated Press put this out, though.
	This is crazy.
	Yeah.
	That they would also do this.
	They're about the most middle of the road, I felt like, AP.
	But I mean, you're right, though.
	San Francisco PD in itself, my knowledge of it is much like their community.
	You know, it's very, it's a very hopeful group.
	Yeah, a very hopeful group.
	You know, I mean, they're okay with a lot of stuff.
	They're really okay with the idea.
	There's so many things that they do.
	Let's give, make really readily available needles for heroin addicts, you know, which I understand the argument.
	Safe shooting or whatever, yeah.
	I understand the argument of it, but there's just not a lot of thought process.
	Well, they wanted to give swords to homeless people.
	I remember a couple years ago, there was a thing about giving homeless people swords so they could help defend themselves.
	And I'm like, what the fuck are we doing, dude?
	Homeless, I mean, there's another great example, man, the homeless situation.
	We have fucked ourselves on that.
	We have totally fucked ourselves.
	When I first started in police work, there really is no available answer for homelessness because it's a mix of people.
	It's people that want to be there.
	It's people that are drug addicts.
	It's people that are mentally incapable.
	We used to have the process where we would be able to, someone would go, I got a homeless guy and he's taking shit in front of my house.
	We'd be able to go there, take that person and alleviate the problem for the person that's calling us.
	We would take them somewhere else.
	Let me take you to this park.
	Let me take you.
	Where can I take you?
	Is there any way I can take you?
	Take you to, let me take you 7-Eleven.
	I'll get you some water.
	I'll buy you a little something to eat, you know, and then you can go on your way.
	And they go, okay, I'll do that.
	Early on in my career, and I forget the agency, but a cop kind of did that where he took a homeless person away from a situation where someone was calling, drove them to the edge of the city and said, walk that way.
	So the idea was you're not my city's problem.
	And somehow some attorney got a hold of that information and decided that he was going to take this to court because that cop took someone that had not committed a crime and against his will, transported him from one location to another, which is the definition of kidnapping.
	So they ended up going after this cop for kidnapping.
	So then what ends up happening by case law is it changes the process the way all police departments handle homeless people.
	You know, there's no more doing that.
	So basically they even made it worse.
	Then they start saying, oh, you took that guy to jail and you left his cart full of shit here, which is full of memorabilia, things from growing up, trophies from when he was in T-ball.
	I wish.
	It's usually full of shit, man.
	I mean, just disgusting, you know?
	Extra urine.
	Yeah, socks full of weird shit that he chewed on and whatever.
	And they glitter?
	Yeah, whatever.
	We saw a dude with a whole canister of glitter one time.
	We're like, what?
	I had a homeless guy that was so bad.
	And when we booked him in, his sock was, he had an athletic sock, you know, with the stripes on it, filled with cash, over $3,000.
	Wow.
	And he was sitting in a gutter eating dirt.
	You know, it's just crazy.
	People are giving him money.
	But they start saying that we have to book all their property in.
	You literally got to take that shopping cart, individually go through it, itemize it, process it, and put it in thing.
	So now cops went, oh, hell no.
	Right.
	I'm not doing this now.
	Oh, hell no.
	I don't have the time.
	I don't want the disease.
	You've made it totally unreasonable.
	So again, society completely screwed themselves on how we as a society can help you with a problem.
	If you had a homeless guy sitting out here in front of your door, that cop's in a pickle.
	You know, he can still do things and try to convince this guy to leave, but all the real tools that we had, the real methods we used, the world got rid of them.
	Well, why do we, and a lot of times it's lawyers that fucking ruin all this shit?
	Lawyers ruined everything.
	Lawyers really have.
	They've ruined everything.
	Civil law has ruined everything.
	Civil law has destroyed our country.
	It really has.
	And America's, they love civil law.
	There's so many people getting rich off civil law.
	Man.
	But the mental expense and the emotional expense of all of that type of stuff, all those rules, the laws, the impossibility of it, that the average human, the average American, I think, because this is really a lot of it's American issues.
	I think we're getting to the point where we're at our tipping point.
	A lot of people are on medication.
	A lot of people are stressed beyond the gills.
	We can't, people are not able to have children as easily anymore.
	Everybody's going through all this fertilization, you know, stuff.
	I think there's tons of stressors.
	I think we're getting to that point where it's a little bit at their tipping point.
	You don't know at a CVS now if you are safe or not.
	Like I was there the other day and the makeup lady is now tussling with some fucking 6'4 man in there.
	And she's just trying to, you know, make sure that this guy doesn't mash up her station, you know, like because the guy's running around taking stuff, right?
	And so then like you have people, they have to be enforcers now.
	And she's just the makeup person and the photo guy, you know, it's like they shouldn't have to be enforcers.
	So it's like, and then the truth is they probably should just let insurance handle it or whatever, you know?
	So it's like, I don't know, we've just gotten ourselves into this place.
	It feels like a lot of times where the people who are supposed to be helping us, our therapists, our police, or the people that are kind of like add this buffer to society to make us stay well, are kind of stressed to the gills, it feels like sometimes.
	Yeah, I don't know who's going to police the world coming up, especially now with everything that's going on.
	Who's going into law enforcement right now?
	Yeah, what's that been like?
	Has there been lower amounts of people going in?
	Have you heard or anything?
	No, I mean, it's.
	But it seems scary, yeah.
	They've tightened the standards.
	They've made it harder because the world's going like, oh, you know, the police are doing everything they can to go.
	We need the best candidates.
	We don't want these problems again in the future.
	The testing process of becoming a police officer is, it's extraordinary.
	I mean, it's really extraordinary the tests I had to go through, you know, psychologists, written tests, physical tests.
	I mean, there's just so many interviews, backgrounds.
	They went in my background.
	They went and talked to everybody.
	No.
	Oh, dude, everybody.
	They talked to my ex-girlfriends and everybody.
	That's a good one.
	And they also seal it.
	And so you never get to know what they said, which is really.
	Oh, you should get it when you're done.
	Dude, on the way out, I knew where it was and I thought many times, I'm going to go in there and fucking pilf this shit, but I didn't want to fuck with my pension.
	Who knows what they could do?
	You know what I mean?
	But who's going to police?
	Who's going to do it?
	Who's going to take this job?
	I remember as a kid, you know, again, I think today I wouldn't be able to be a police officer.
	Today they require, like, I had, I got my degree when I was a cop so I could become a detective.
	Okay.
	So I went to college while I was working.
	Now they really won't even talk to you in the hiring process unless you have a degree.
	They're, they're, they're, they're up to standards.
	Yeah.
	And are they paying more?
	Yeah.
	Well, it's progressive every year.
	It's like 3%.
	I remember being a kid.
	I was 21 years old and I was making like $60,000 a year.
	You know, for a 21-year-old dude, I was I was big pimping, dude.
	You know, I was huge.
	I was huge.
	And I always.
	I was shooting bullets in the air and damn catching them in your mouth, dude.
	I always felt like I was being fairly compensated, I guess, because once I got into it, it was so exciting.
	I hated the weekend.
	I loved to work.
	I couldn't wait to get to work the next day because what the fuck's going to go on today?
	That's how it was every day for a long time when I was young.
	And I always felt like the money was fair, you know?
	Just to give you an idea, California is the highest paid police officers in the world.
	They're also the most trained.
	And I'm sure there's somebody that's going to disagree with that from somewhere else, but it just, it is.
	That's why a lot of the stuff you'll see, you'll see like in, no bang on Kentucky, but some police officer in a place like Kentucky, you know, doing something stupid.
	And you're going like, that's crazy.
	The show cops.
	Yeah.
	I actually had cops ride with me.
	You did?
	I did have cops ride with me.
	You'd be interested in how that goes, how that process is to get one shot.
	We're going to talk about that in a minute.
	Remember that, Zach, so we don't forget that.
	I watch cops a lot of times.
	It's going like, oh my God, I can't believe what this guy's doing.
	You know, their tacticals and their tactics and all that kind of stuff.
	Oh, yeah.
	But I just don't know.
	I don't know what it's going to be like because I do feel like you need to pull as many people from different aspects of society just to have that rounded structure of, you know, I had a lot of compassion for the arrest process, for people going into it.
	This guy doesn't understand that.
	He's a good dude.
	He's doing the right thing, but he has no idea the impact of taking someone, putting them in a handcuff.
	Putting them into a cage.
	Putting them in a cage.
	The guy had to go to work tomorrow.
	We impounded his car.
	He's only got 300 bucks in the case.
	It's just monstrous.
	And I had a real feel for that.
	And in reality, if they had known everything about me, they would have probably said, nah, we're going to pass on you.
	And I was successful.
	You know, I wasn't the best or anything like that, but I was very successful.
	And I was good at the compassion aspect.
	I think if you went back and talked to everybody, they would go like, yeah, your heart was too big for this job to start with.
	And I kind of disagree with that.
	I just understood.
	I understood what we're doing here.
	This is a big deal.
	Yeah.
	You know, you, you, you try to explain to somebody anytime somebody dies in a car accident, in a murder, when I was a homicide detective for a period, you, you have to, somebody has to go tell that family that your loved one's dead because they don't know at that point.
	You know?
	Do you try to act like when you walk up, do you try to act like you don't like, because they're looking like That would be the part for me.
	If a cop comes and knocks on my door, do you want to look like you have that information, or is the goal at first to not look like you have that information?
	Man, we are now in a conversation.
	That was one of the probably the hardest aspect of police work: notifying people that their loved one's dead.
	And when you threw one of them.
	Okay.
	I'm going to give you a traffic accident.
	I had a traffic accident where a 16-year-old female was killed.
	And I went, they'd start the investigation and usually they'll take someone that's never done it before or whatever to go do the notification.
	At that time, I was on patrol and they said, hey, listen, you got to go make the notification.
	By then, it was like three, four o'clock in the morning.
	And if you're a parent and your kid's out and a cop knocks on the door at four o'clock in the morning, the blood leaves your face.
	It just does.
	You know, that's just the way it is.
	You know what I mean?
	And I remember I did many of these.
	And as they went on, they got way more difficult.
	But I remember knocking on the door and being so nervous that it felt like my esophagus had seized.
	Like I literally couldn't talk.
	I'm thinking they're going to come to the door.
	I'm not going to be able to talk right now.
	And I remember it was a mother, she came to the door and she had just woken up.
	And as soon as she saw me, I didn't have to say anything.
	You know, something was wrong.
	She knew that.
	Something was very wrong.
	And the process of informing a love, a parent, especially, that their child is dead, when you first start doing it, you're blunt because that's what you're there to do.
	And I came to, I said, you know, you're the parent of yada yada.
	And by then they're already crying.
	And you, so I'm sorry to inform you, but your daughter was killed in a traffic accident.
	And this woman in particular, because it, again, this, these are the trials of police officers.
	Right now, I feel like I want to cry.
	Yeah.
	Same.
	Yeah.
	I mean, it just does that to you.
	And it's, it's, um, but I have a, I have a thousand of these.
	You know what I'm saying?
	So I remember, I remember her getting to the point and her falling on the ground.
	And as many movies as I've seen of trying to depict police situations, there's nobody and there's nothing that could do that accurately to really depict of what that looks like.
	It's a pain that to this day, I'm probably 20 years now out from that situation, close to.
	It still makes me want to cry, just bringing it up.
	It brings, you know, I get the pain.
	And as you do those and as you go through them, I had a dad that a girl had hung herself and he was so upset that he grabbed me by the shirt and he started, no, no, and like kind of pushing me back.
	And he had a suburban and he pushed me into the suburban and my elbow went through the back window of his thing.
	That's how hard he pushed me.
	And I knew what was happening there.
	He wasn't mad at me.
	This guy was just so grieving.
	But as those go on and as those situations occur and as you do more and more of those, as you introduce new officers and take them to do it, it becomes so much more difficult.
	I remember sitting out front of homes towards the end of my career, sitting in the car, and I was a sergeant at the time, and I wouldn't send young guys because I just couldn't fathom me doing that to them because I knew what it's done to me.
	You know what I mean?
	So I remember looking at this particular one, it was the morning.
	It was like six o'clock in the morning because the sun was coming up.
	And I remember seeing them walking in front of the window of their home in the kitchen and me realizing, okay, I got 45 minutes to have my shifts up.
	I'm going to sit here for 45 more minutes because these are the last 45 minutes of these people's lives.
	You know what I mean?
	And because I was at that point in my career, it's gone off.
	I was crying.
	Just the thought of doing this.
	I had my own child now.
	It just, it became so much larger now of doing them for so many times that I sat there forever putting it off as long as I can.
	And then walking up to it, it's indescribable.
	It really truly is indescribable knocking on a door and telling someone their most precious whatever, husband, wife, dad, son, grandma, anything is gone.
	And the scenario that you do that is so vast.
	You know, there's so many old people that live alone and the family lives far away and no one's really accounting for them.
	And it's August and they fucking die on Thursday.
	And by Tuesday, the neighbor's going, something stinks next door and there's fucking flies all over the window.
	And they send you out at two, three o'clock in the morning and you got a fucking flashlight and you walk up to the house and look at the window going, fuck yeah, something's dead in here, man.
	You can smell it, which is a smell you never forget.
	You know exactly the smell of death.
	Really?
	Oh, exactly.
	If there's something dead and that smell is permeating in the air, I smell it.
	I tell you, something's dead within these parameters.
	Do you know it's human usually or not?
	Can you tell human or not?
	No, I don't know.
	I don't know that, but I know human.
	And you start going through that.
	This is a whole different story.
	You start going through that house, man.
	You know, you got to kick the door in, you know, because no one answers the door and it's dark and you're so fucking scared and wigged out that you don't even take the time to hit light switches to turn the light on.
	You're going in with a flashlight, which makes it a million fucking times worse, you know?
	It's like, be smart, hit the light switch, at least it's there.
	But you're going around corners going, okay, this is the fucking door, you know?
	And I've kicked open so many doors and seen the most horrific shit, dude, you can ever imagine in your entire life.
	You know how many dudes die taking a shit?
	A lot of them, huh?
	A lot.
	Very prevalent for old people.
	There's actually a medical term for it.
	No, really?
	What is it?
	I couldn't tell you.
	Just bring it up, Zach.
	We can get that information for you.
	The pushing of a bowel movement, it stops their heart.
	And I can't even tell you how many times I've had dudes on the ground and have to force open the door because their body's in the way.
	In the toilet, and they're just rigamorted.
	Yeah.
	And are they usually like this or are they more like this?
	Well, rigamortis has a process.
	Or do they do like this?
	No, they fall off the toilet.
	No.
	Yeah, they fall off the toilet.
	Oh, dang.
	Yeah, so they're blocking the door.
	That's why I'm saying you got to push the door.
	So you're pushing the door and it's just something gruesome about pushing a body, you know, and trying to get around and look at it.
	And usually they're, they're in like in August, if you don't find someone for a week in August and they never turn the air conditioning on, that body's in a state of fucking disaster.
	I mean, is it bloated?
	That whole process, that's a process.
	The death process, rigor mortis sets in, it comes out, then you start bloating.
	You get, you know, I've had them where they're bloated so big that there's big water blisters on their back.
	And like the coroner, a little coroner, a little Asian girl dressed to the nines with a little suit on.
	Damn, boy.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Really pretty little girl.
	I died as to meet her.
	You know, you don't want to deal with a coroner, dude.
	Those are some, those are some different people.
	You got to be.
	Are they really pretty sketched out on some damn Wednesday Adams's, huh?
	Yeah.
	Well, dude, I had a coroner at LA County Coroner's Office that we were in there on an autopsy, which is a whole different story.
	Autopsies are disgusting.
	They're brutal.
	They use saws and they use hedge clippers to cut the rib cages away.
	Oh.
	Because they canoe them.
	They take away your rib cages and they take all your guts out.
	They cut your head.
	They peel your hair forward so your hair is touching your face.
	They cut your dome off and take out the brain and all kinds of wicked stuff.
	But afterwards, as a homicide investigator, we would go to those because we'd want to see the trajectory of the bullets and get a determination of what they determine, how far and all the different evidence you can get from an autopsy.
	I had this dude that did an autopsy, gloves covered in blood, and he went in to talk to me and he went into this little lunchroom and he got his lunch out and he took off his gloves.
	This fucker pulled out a sandwich, like a meat sandwich.
	It had meat in it.
	And as he's talking to me, as he's talking to me, he's eating a meat sandwich.
	And I remember being digging my fingers into my leg.
	Just like, oh, just to not think about it because it was so, it was making me so nauseous.
	You know?
	Yeah, I don't think I could have a damn turkey tom while somebody's just laying there.
	Hell no.
	Corners are a different breed, man.
	You got to be a different breed to be chopping up people all day long.
	Yeah, even as to be taking, yeah, like you're taking vitamins or, yeah, if you're going to be on an exercise bike or something in the same room as like a body, just creep.
	It's so weird.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, back to the real quick on the Asian.
	The Asian girl, she had to flip, she had to flip this body over that was bloated.
	So she put a rope around the opposite side of the lady's wrist.
	And this lady was deep into decomposing.
	And she threw the rope over the lady and she went on the other side and she was going to pull this rope so the arm would flip her over and she'd be able to see the front of her.
	So she's pulling this rope over and because the body was so decomposed, it ripped off the skin of the entire arm and the body fluids of this lady went straight up on her and on her face and in her mouth.
	It was all over her.
	And this girl literally, she was shocked for a second, but then she's, oh my God, you said some things.
	And she went over and got some wet wipes out of her thing.
	And she wiped off her face and she just went back to fucking business, man.
	And just ate a damn butterscotch out of her purse.
	Dude, jamming temperature things in her liver and shit.
	Crazy, man.
	Crazy.
	Crazy.
	That's the dark arts, dude.
	That is when you are a real concierge of the devil, I feel like, if you're there doing coronation.
	Yeah, coronerizing.
	That's definitely a relationship killer, man.
	I would suggest anybody, if you find out you're dating someone, it's a coroner, that's going to be a strange life.
	Yeah, man, that's really going to be, because they're going to want to watch you sleep, you know?
	Yeah.
	Forever, maybe.
	Pull up that information you had there, Zachary, if you don't mind.
	Oh, I had it.
	It's a defecation syncope is the name for dying while you're shitting.
	What is it again?
	And are you dying?
	You sound sick, Zach.
	I'm okay.
	It's defecation syncope.
	There you go.
	Pretty prevalent.
	What does it say about it?
	Can you tell it?
	Just give us a little more intel.
	Defecation syncope describes the vassovagile response that occurs while defecating that results in a loss of consciousness.
	Wow.
	Yeah, for old people.
	The loss of consciousness results from bearing down to increase the pressure in the rectum.
	Damn, boy.
	So I guess, yeah, you can have to, I mean, this guy just shit himself to death, really.
	God.
	Yeah, it happens pretty often with older people.
	Something to do with their heart stops their heart and they die and they're by themselves.
	And yeah, pretty brutal.
	Pretty brutal.
	Life is pretty brutal.
	Life is.
	I always felt like it would be a good thing for the world to have some kind of a venue where, like, I got a million stories.
	You know, I got a million things I've experienced where one guy, one cop, one story, you know, and just to give the world the idea of what's going on because nobody knows what's going on.
	You think you're so, you just the perception of how many police there are.
	Any given night in, I'm going to give you the example of the city of Whittier, which is a pretty big city, there was four or five cops.
	That's it.
	Wow.
	That's it.
	You know what I mean?
	That's all that there was.
	Now, granted, there's a lot of police around and they'll come say, but that's, you're not really safe with just four or five cops.
	You know what I mean?
	Like to this day, I'm telling you, I could rob any bank.
	Yeah.
	I know exactly how to do it.
	Really?
	You could get it.
	Oh, absolutely.
	I'm not going to say it.
	I don't want to.
	But I could absolutely do it.
	You could write it down for me.
	Yeah.
	Just because there's such a lack of officers, there's such a lack of staffing.
	You know, there's such a, we're just unsafe.
	And I think if someone could put something together where they just, a cop just came and say, hey, this is, this is a story.
	And people start hearing that every day and just going like, dude, the world, the stuff that's going on in the world right now, you know, the stuff that goes on every day and has always gone on and always is going to go on.
	I think people would be a little more understanding of the difficulty of the job, you know, the difficulty of policing the world, you know, and maybe be a little more less judgmental, you know, a little less harsh.
	Oh, well, I think this conversation alone, and I've always been kind of, I mean, pretty much pro-police.
	I mean, if there's a bad policeman, I'm against that person.
	If there's a bad anything, I'd kind of be against that person or at least wanting to investigate what's going on with them.
	But, you know, we grew up in a real poor environment.
	And so the cops would always hang out around the poor people because we were outside a lot.
	And so when I was growing up, we'd be outside.
	So the cops, I think sometimes would be on their, you know, and they'd stop and chat.
	You know, I feel like you kind of knew the cops better when you were poor because you were outside.
	There'd be more calls to your neighborhood because somebody was always doing something.
	There was always some domestic violence or somebody was, you know, butting some drugs or something small, you know, just some small ball locally.
	So the cops would be around.
	So you get to kind of know them, you know.
	And it was kind of fun in a way, you know, and then one of them would start dating somebody in the neighborhood.
	It'd be something a little bit dice, you know, like not dicey, but just like, you know, I remember chicks thought it was kind of hot to date a cop, you know, when I was growing up.
	It was like, yeah, I get to date a cop.
	But if you say that now, it seems crazy.
	I can't imagine there's any girls going, oh, I want to date a cop.
	Yeah.
	I mean, really, who would want to date a cop now?
	Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
	I think there's still a lot of like, you know, America first type people, I think, who believe that cops are good people, you know, and so those people would probably be fine with it.
	I think maybe more scared for the cops, probably.
	There might be more fear in that sense.
	Yeah, the lifestyle.
	Again, it goes down to they just don't know, you know, it's a tough life.
	My, you know, my wife's married a cop, you know, tough life.
	Tough life, you know, but I'm out now and things are good.
	And, but it's a tough life.
	It's, it's a different life.
	The world doesn't know what's going on out there.
	You have no idea what's going on out there.
	I do.
	Yeah.
	It's a hard reality to live with.
	You never feel safe.
	Well, and it's just not fair that there's not an accurate kind of representation of what goes on out there.
	There's not that that person you call, you guys are expected to handle so much.
	Like some people are mentally unwell.
	Somebody's got a gun.
	Somebody's doing sex trafficking.
	Somebody's trying to hide a kid in their attic.
	You know, it's like, you don't fucking know.
	Nope.
	And you never know what you're walking into either.
	Many situations where you think it's one thing and it's something totally different.
	You know what I mean?
	Did you get a lot of, was there a lot of that?
	Because, you know, a few years ago, sex trafficking was like the big buzz.
	You know, it was like, you'd see things on commercial, like there's a million women being sex trafficked in America.
	And I'm like, that's fucking insane.
	But I could believe that there's some of it, you know, but I don't think there's a million women, you know, like you'd see some every few years is like a big thing.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I don't, to be honest, I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I never really dealt with a lot of that.
	I never, I don't understand, I don't have a lot of knowledge on that.
	So it'd be pretty irresponsible for me to make a comment about that.
	But in my police career, I dealt with prostitutes, you know, without, there was a lot of stuff with prostitution.
	And were they just trying to survive?
	Most of them, were most of them just women trying to survive or were most of them women that you found that had been in a, were that were being abused by a man and used to sex, used to use money and sex.
	You know what?
	I didn't, I couldn't answer that because I never really, very rarely would I have an intimate conversation with someone I was dealing with.
	Right.
	I deal with enough.
	I don't need, I don't want to know the story.
	The story's irrelevant.
	You know, if you start getting into stories, it can kind of change the way you handle stuff.
	And the reality of it is that you were soliciting.
	I'm just dealing with soliciting.
	You know, if they go into a story of, oh my God, my dad raped me and this and that, as a human being, I think you would tend to go like, oh, my God, this poor thing.
	And I just got to deal with the situation because if she gives me a story and I let her off because her story is sad, well, how, how fair is it the next prostitute that I arrest them just because I don't listen to their story?
	It's another difficulty of it, you know?
	Right.
	That plays a lot with tickets.
	You know, tickets, man, are a tickets are a big deal, dude.
	Everyone gets pulled over and they want, they want to get out of the ticket, you know?
	Come on, man, help me out.
	But the reality of it is, if you were driving 75 miles per hour and I pulled you over and you're, I notice who you are, you're a cool guy, or we have a conversation or you're very upfront and go, totally my fault, totally so sorry.
	And I go, okay, man, just slow down.
	The next guy I pull over that's doing the same exact thing.
	I don't give him the opportunity to talk because maybe I'm in a rush or I don't know who he is.
	And I give him a ticket.
	Well, now I've done, I've done something wrong.
	Right.
	You know what I mean?
	I've done something wrong.
	So there's a real dilemma with that.
	So when you start giving people breaks, when they're the next person you're doing wrong.
	So that's an aspect people never really think of.
	So if you're really doing policing right, there is no gray.
	Right.
	But we all want them to deal with the gray.
	And I dealt with the gray constantly, you know?
	And is it a real thing that you have to like, people are like, all right, we, we, we, we, the city needs to make money.
	We need $10,000.
	Because everybody's guilty when they get pulled 99% of the time.
	Yes.
	So is that a real thing?
	It's like, hey, we got to make sure if you're, if you're letting people off, we can't let them off anymore the next month.
	As far as like quotas and stuff like that?
	No, they're too smart for that.
	This is how they do it.
	There is no quotas.
	But what they'll do is, is they'll say, you've got to be within five tickets of the team average, the team being the watch that's going out.
	Okay.
	So day watch is usually guys that have been on for a long time that just want to work nine to five, Monday through Friday.
	Those guys don't do shit.
	I mean, they're doing the absolute minimum because they're burned out, they're tired, they're old.
	Their tickets are going to be really super low.
	So what the department does is they'll take a guy fresh out of the academy who can't wait to write some tickets and they'll throw him on day watch.
	So now that guy's writing 40 tickets.
	Fucking penmanship Henry out there.
	Yeah, just doing it, you know, for everything.
	Yeah.
	So they'll put that guy on the watch and he'll write 40 tickets in a month.
	Now the expectation is for everyone else has got to be at about 32, 33, or you're going to get on your eval.
	So is there a quota?
	No, there is no quota.
	We just got to be within the team average, which is the average that we should be at.
	Right.
	Again, civil liability.
	It's a way to beat around it.
	You know what I mean?
	That's what they'll do.
	That's how they'll get the tickets they need.
	Let's get you another water.
	I got a P. Yeah, yeah, I got a P too.
	We can jump back on for a few minutes.
	Yeah.
	My dad was no, my dad was a great dude, man.
	He just was no.
	There was no bullshit with my dad.
	Really?
	No bullshit.
	He's dirt poor, grew up in Ardmore, Oklahoma.
	Oh, wow.
	Backyard was a cemetery.
	Dad was a drunk, died young, used to beat him.
	You know, the whole deal.
	He was white trash.
	My dad was, that's self-proclaimed white trash.
	You know, had nothing, shoes with holes, all the stories and shit.
	But he became a really successful executive.
	He was the vice president of Hebrew National.
	We're not Jewish, but.
	With Hebrew National, the wieners?
	Yeah.
	Franks.
	Wow, damn.
	And his brother became a doctor.
	Wow.
	This is huge.
	They came from nothing.
	Oh, it's huge.
	When you come from nothing, man, for somebody to be a fucking doctor.
	I remember in our neighborhood, somebody was a lunch lady, and we were like, damn, Miss Annie.
	She made it.
	Well, you say that, but his brother who became a doctor, that guy's, he's like a fucking serial killer.
	Really?
	Yeah, he got raided by the SWAT and he was one of the guys that was writing prescriptions.
	Oh, he was.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, that thing, that whole thing was crazy.
	Did you see that Dope Sick?
	Yeah, very good.
	How insane is that?
	Say again?
	Dope Sick.
	It was like that document.
	It was like a television show.
	I think it was on Hulu.
	I watched it.
	I'm trying to think what the content was.
	It was like Michael.
	Who was in it, Zach?
	Michael Keaton.
	Michael Keaton, and he was a doctor.
	And he got on, he started prescribing these pills because they made him sound safe.
	And everybody in his town got hooked.
	Yes.
	Yeah, that was huge.
	And then he got hooked.
	That was huge.
	I'll tell you something.
	I worked, I was a police officer.
	I was in NARCS during the heart of that epidemic.
	Opioid epidemic.
	Yeah, and it was some Jewish family, I think, that ran Sackler family.
	What were they?
	That actually owned the business.
	That owned the business.
	And they kept compromising.
	Oh, yeah, Sackler family.
	They kept compromising officials and getting them to work and bribing people.
	It's unbelievable how they kept it in business.
	Yeah, what was that like to opioid epidemic on the street level?
	Well, at the time it was going on, they weren't calling it an opioid endemic.
	There was no identifying it.
	But we started noticing that we would catch guys coming out of dentist's office and they would have different kinds of containers.
	One of the ones that was real prevalent for some reason was these little square lunch coolers and they'd have them filled with prescription bottles.
	And we called them fishers.
	And what they would do is they would go to these low-end doctors and dentists and they would just fill prescription, find these doctors that go, oh, my back hurts.
	And you go, okay, let me write you a prescription.
	Move this out a little bit more for me if you can.
	Or just like this way.
	This way?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	They would, they would fill, they would find all these doctors that would fill prescriptions and they would go to like 10 doctors a day and we'd catch them and they'd have like a thousand pills, you know, and we start going, this is really becoming prevalent.
	We're finding this more and more.
	And I think we actually had a guy OD out front of a dentist's office and somehow we found in his prescription that the prescription was from that dentist.
	And that's how we kind of got turned on and it started going in motion is finding out what's going on here, man, is that these doctors somehow are making tremendous amounts of money billing insurance by these guys coming in saying my knee hurts and them just giving a prescription, bill the insurance, get a bunch of money knowing this guy's going to be back in about three days.
	I'm just going to do it again.
	You know what I mean?
	And these guys will go to like five, six, seven doctors.
	Yeah, they had that documentary about a kid in New Orleans that got murdered buying some pills and it led to the dad like searching out this entire like like kind of pill farming thing that was going on there.
	I can't remember the name of that.
	It was pretty fascinating though.
	The pharmacist?
	The pharmacist.
	That was it.
	I actually tried to reach out to that dad and even have him come on as a guest.
	I mean it was the story is just so tragic.
	But then he busts he helps bust this doctor who was I mean giving out insane amounts of pills every day.
	They would show like they had like footage outside of her pharmacy or whatever and they'd have like 50 60 people out there just waiting at like at like up to like 1 a.m.
	And they'd have a security guard like having them go in one at a time and she was just sitting in there writing scripts.
	And when they finally found her, she was geeked out to the gills.
	Yeah.
	Just insane.
	Was there ever instances where cops would start using the like in to help relieve some of their own like PTSD and stuff that was going on that they ever, does that become an issue ever?
	I'm trying to think firsthand if I know of any I don't really I mean drinking there was always guys that always drank but that has always been socially acceptable.
	Yeah, that's pretty much kind of yeah I'm just thinking if it yeah because those opioid those the opioids it's such an easy thing to just take and use you know it's a good example that you were saying like and I this is one I'm kind of reluctant because I don't want to cause any problems for people in police work right now, but polling from general society.
	Police departments are staffed by people from the community.
	They go through a hiring process and they get, we get everything.
	And this is a good example of people judging the cops based on the actions of one person or a dozen or so.
	We actually at my police department had two different cops, one I worked with forever, one I knew right off the bat that were child molesters.
	Damn.
	That we found out that were child musters.
	Matter of fact, the one officer that we caught, the first one, he molested the son of one of our other officers.
	They were best friends.
	So again, you're talking about a situation where the world goes, we can't even have one bad cop.
	Well, fuck, we're with you on, you know, not with you.
	Right, we're with you, but we're also this piece of a piece of society.
	And we're dealing with it too.
	Yeah.
	You know, we're dealing with it too.
	As soon as we find out that it's there, I mean, we, we, obviously this guy was gone in prison and we we handled that situation, but we're no different than anybody else.
	You know, cops are no different than the people that are cops are no different than anybody else.
	Yeah, it's kind of funny.
	If you took a group of guys and you just showed me a group of guys, I don't know if I'd know if they were cops or not unless you put the uniforms on them, you know?
	Certain ones.
	Right.
	Some guys, yeah.
	Some guys got the high and tight and the big mustache and, you know, they're always wearing a fanny pack.
	Yeah.
	But you know what?
	Yeah, right.
	As soon as you see that guy, though, even cops look at that guy and go like, dude, you're mowing your fucking lawn.
	Put your gun away, you know?
	Right.
	Cop it down a little.
	Yeah, totally.
	Totally.
	That's great.
	Yeah.
	And those are the guys that end up being 23 years old and go into the nightclub with a gun on them.
	Right.
	You know what I mean?
	Which is just.
	I'm a cop.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, how stupid can you be?
	You know, how stupid can you be going into a drinking situation carrying a gun?
	Because if someone punches you in the face, what are you going to do?
	Yeah, punch them with a bullet.
	Yeah.
	That's where you see stuff like that.
	Gun them, yeah, for sure.
	There was a couple of, what do you think about this?
	So when you get in, when you got into detectiving, did you detective anything like this Idaho murder?
	Do you follow that kind of stuff?
	Do you follow crimes sometimes, like especially high profile?
	No, I don't follow anything.
	I don't even want to know about it.
	But high profile, most of my murders were domestic and gang related.
	Okay.
	Where I was at, I didn't have anything particularly high profile.
	I had a lot of domestic situations, which real quick on one, this is a good example for you two for hotels.
	I'll give you a little information on hotels.
	You never know what goes on in hotels, man.
	Any hotel room you're in, I'm going to give you a little touch of some stuff that goes on in those hotels before you checked in.
	We had a situation on a murder where a guy got arrested for domestic violence.
	Okay.
	Taken into custody.
	For whatever reason, the judge sentenced him to 90 days, but decided he's going to give him 24 hours to get his affairs in order before he reports to go into custody, which is nuts, which is totally, totally nuts.
	So he releases this guy.
	This guy immediately goes and kidnaps the girl that he beat, takes her to a hotel in our city.
	In the hotel, he executes her, shoots her in the back of the head, she falls on the bed, and then blows his head off.
	He actually puts it up to his thing so he's on the ceiling.
	The brains and everything are on the ceiling.
	So when we get a cleaning lady tried to get in because he had put a table against the door and sees it and calls us.
	So we get there.
	We push open the door and enough time had passed where the woman had fallen onto the bed.
	It was one of those cheap polyester type bed spreads and it's almost holds water.
	So when she bled out, it accumulated in that thing.
	So her face was in the blood where you couldn't see any of her face.
	She was face down and it was already coagulating on top.
	So it was like a giant scab on top.
	You know what I'm saying?
	He was all over the ceiling and fallen back.
	We do the investigation.
	We get everything done.
	Totally gruesome, totally gross.
	It was like late, late, three, four o'clock in the morning that we leave.
	And the next day, I didn't come in.
	I came in the next day and I needed to get some information from the hotel.
	So I went back to the hotel and I go into the office.
	And so I'm going in the office.
	This is less than 24 hours.
	Well, a little bit over 24 hours.
	And I look up and there's a fucking family walking out of that hotel room.
	They're going out to go about and do whatever they're going to do.
	And I walked in the office and said, dude, you rented that hotel room out.
	How did you get it clean?
	And this guy went on to explain to me how they have people on standby and he got it clean and they painted this and painted that.
	No mention to that family.
	24 hours ago, there was a double murder in that hotel room.
	Crazy.
	That's a small story on hotel rooms.
	Dang, man.
	That's God.
	What?
	Yeah.
	We'll leave the light on for you, huh?
	Yeah, no shit.
	And that is the kind of hotel it was.
	We'll leave the light on.
	My God.
	Yeah.
	Crazy.
	Again, a perfect example of the world just doesn't know what walks the earth.
	Well, it's just another example also of are we processing the travesties that happen?
	Are we, or are we just, you know, are we still able?
	How much travesty and, you know, stuff has built up that we just can't even process it as a society, you know?
	Even things like that.
	It's like turning around.
	Like, is there some, is there a little bit of a vibe where maybe the fucking kid, you know, one of the kids sleeping in there develops a cancer 40 years from now because he fucking slept in the aura of a, you know, two deceased people nine hours after they're dead.
	Yeah.
	For real.
	I, you know, I look, and it's some of that's kind of like this, you know, it's more this, you know, imaginative sort of thinking, but I don't know how much of it it is, you know.
	Well, I also came up in the meth lab time.
	Yeah.
	California was full of meth labs when I first started.
	The meth labs were scary, man.
	Really?
	You usually found a meth lab?
	A lot of the times you would discover a meth lab because it'd blow up because those are volatile.
	They blew up all the time.
	You can't shoot in there.
	No, no.
	Shit, you found a meth lab.
	You had to back out quick because, I mean, meth is just made out of red lye and Coleman Lanner fluid, lighter fluid, just all kinds of shit that you have no business ingesting.
	You know what I mean?
	It's all volatile and there's gases and they always would blow up.
	Unless you want to fuck for a long time, I think it's okay to have a little.
	I mean, don't, have you ever caught, some people do sex on meth for a long time, right?
	Yeah, with a dildo with a coat hanger.
	Oh my God.
	Yeah, sorry I had to take you back there.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, dude, tweakers, tweakers were, tweakers are the tweakers of the lifeblood, a place where the difference, the only tweakers are so different than any other drug.
	Heroin addicts, marijuana.
	We'll touch real quick on marijuana.
	Police work in marijuana, I identified really quick.
	I'm not a marijuana advocate, but I identified really quick that this is ridiculous.
	This is against the law.
	Every single person I ever came in contact that was stoned never gave me a problem at all.
	In fact, they were some of the best contacts I ever had.
	Wow.
	Best contacts.
	I identified really early that this is something that's just, it needs to go away.
	Every dude that was drunk was a nightmare.
	And that was legal and this is not.
	I can go on forever and tell you that.
	It is ridiculous.
	And why do we have those laws against marijuana?
	Because old white people, you know, back in the day, just hysteria.
	They didn't know what it was.
	They didn't understand.
	So I don't know.
	I don't know why.
	Devil's lettuce or whatever they're calling it.
	All that shit.
	But we're getting better.
	California is good.
	The rest of the world is getting better.
	I really believe they should be legal everywhere for sure.
	100%.
	But drugs, as far as drug goes, heroin addicts, they do heroin.
	They stay home.
	They nod out.
	Pills, stay home.
	Marijuana, the fun.
	Nitrous oxide, whatever drug you talk about, it's not an issue.
	Methamphetamine, man does methamphetamine, dude, he cannot stay home.
	He cannot stay home.
	He's got to get to, he's got to get to work.
	Wow.
	And it's always at night, you know, that's when we get to work.
	We would find tweakers.
	They had all these different processes of how they get their money.
	Copper was a real big one.
	They loved copper.
	They would wipe out whole housing tracks, you know, of their copper.
	But you'd get the occasional one, which I had one, actually, I think I had two, where they would go into industrial complexes and they would go into these massive warehouses that had those giant metal cabinets.
	They had the like tin wires that were coming down it that were like 20 inch in diameter.
	You know what I mean?
	Just massive.
	Fiber optic wires and all that kind of stuff.
	No, there was just like electricity.
	There was like a box where the main electricity would come in and it would all branch off that.
	But inside there, there'd be massive wiring.
	And these fuckers would go in there and they'd try to cut that wiring out and it'd be live.
	So it would cook them, dude.
	I mean, it would just, they would instantly just get electrocuted and either a fire or there'd be different ways that it would, that we would become aware of it, that we get there.
	But by the time you got there, these guys would be onion rings.
	I mean, onion rings.
	Because they've just been flowing through them.
	Flowing through them.
	And what do they start to look like?
	Kind of like a jerky?
	Do they start to look like a...
	Yeah.
	Completely.
	Does it almost, they almost look fake?
	Yes.
	A lot of that shit looks fake.
	A lot of this stuff that's really brutal.
	I had an industrial accident where a guy got sucked into a turbine.
	It was a big giant piece of machinery that had this like shaft that was a spinning shaft that came out of the engine.
	And it was about, I don't know, about four feet off, three feet off the ground, I'd say.
	And it ran to another engine of some type.
	And they had that covered with metal like gates.
	So that thing's metal, no one could touch it.
	And it was in the front.
	Well, these guys in the warehouse were playing football.
	And the dude threw the football and he missed it.
	And it went into where those things were.
	So this dumbass decided to step over the gate where those things are spinning a billion miles an hour to get the football.
	And the sweater he had tied around his waist got sucked into it and it taffied him.
	It sucked him into the piston and wrapped him around it.
	And by the time he was completely wrapped up into it, his head had been hitting the concrete so many times that it was going around that it emptied his insides perfectly.
	So it was on the ceiling, on the back wall, and then shot across the thing.
	So when we got there, they were in such a panic, they hadn't even shut off the machinery.
	So this thing was going and you're hearing this guy's head, not dink, dink, dink, dink, dink.
	By then, it was like a wet noodle, you know, a giant wet noodle.
	Just disgusting, dude.
	And they told them, you know, why have you turned this off?
	And they, they're, you know, they, it made sense.
	No, we didn't, we didn't want to see it.
	We don't want to stop.
	We don't want to see it.
	We don't know what to do.
	So when you turn that thing off and you see that dude wrapped up in there and the fact that, dude, you want to talk about fake.
	You know what I mean?
	I mean, it looked totally fake.
	It didn't look like a human being at all.
	And cops have to respond to that.
	Oh, yeah.
	Anything that happens like that.
	In the industrial, cops are always the first on everything because firemen are at the station playing video games.
	Yeah, they're having hot dogs.
	Hell yeah.
	Dude, I went, I used to date a fireman's daughter.
	They'd invite me anything they were doing.
	All they were doing, hot dogs.
	Best job ever.
	Every time, dude.
	They're like, you want to, we're doing this big event.
	I get to the event every time it was 11 dudes sitting down eating hot dogs.
	Having a good time, playing games, watching best job.
	The one thing cops and firemen have in common is they all want it.
	We all want to be firemen, man.
	Really?
	Oh, hell yeah, dude.
	If I can go back in time, best job in the world.
	Yeah.
	I got nothing but admiration for them, dude.
	And the world loves them.
	The world loves firemen, dude.
	You know, they ain't holding nobody accountable.
	And everything's a science too for firemen.
	They, God, firemen are going to hate me.
	They do see all the tragedy and death, which is brutal.
	And I feel for them in that.
	But the other side of it is, is that everybody loves them.
	Yeah.
	Because all they're doing is saving and helping.
	And everything that they do essentially is science.
	You know, I mean, it's a fire.
	If it comes in contact with that, we know what's going to happen.
	The wind's blowing this way.
	We know what's going to happen.
	It's all pretty predictable.
	It's not that dangerous.
	There's aspects that are dangerous, but you know.
	Yeah, you guys, there's a lot more.
	It's a lot more hypothesizing in the moment going on.
	Yes.
	There's not like a lot of...
	If there's a house fires, cops are always the first ones on it.
	Dude, I'd shoot.
	If I saw a cop, a house fire, I'd damn shoot at it.
	That's who I'd be that.
	Again, man, the expectation is if you're a cop and you get there and someone's screaming, my baby's inside.
	My baby's.
	Oh, hell yeah.
	Go to an award ceremony for the end of the year at a police department.
	There's always at least one cop that went into a burning building to help somebody.
	Wow.
	Because firemen takes a while to get there.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well, also, yeah, it's so hard to get a group of guys to do anything together, especially being.
	And that truck is so hard to get through.
	It's like, get them a little, you know, I guess, but you have to have water in it, huh?
	Well, the water's already there.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, yeah, I think they're already full.
	I don't know, man.
	Our relationships with cops and firemen is kind of crazy.
	When I was on graveyard, just because I was so jealous of the life they lived and things are good, I would call them out for anything.
	Three o'clock in the morning, dude.
	I'd say, you're not feeling good, man.
	You need to be seen by a paramedic.
	All right, let me hook this up.
	And I would, we need paramedics just, and they knew it because we eventually become friends because they're at the same station.
	Yeah, totally.
	They would see me and be upset, but you know.
	I love stopping by fire stations, man.
	Fire dudes have always been cool and it's nice to get it to go in there, you know.
	Great job.
	Yeah, it's cool, man.
	Especially in New Orleans, like we always love them because they also are part of the parades.
	So that's a big thing in Louisiana is firemen get this whole second, they have this whole second like appreciation because the fire trucks are in the parades a lot of time.
	Oh, yeah.
	So you see a lot of that.
	Everyone's cheering them, waving flags.
	Yeah.
	What do you think is like one of the biggest problems that's facing police right now?
	I mean, I know you said some of the PTSD and I say you said low staffing too, or the fear that people don't like a bad public image, you know?
	Yeah, I saying bad public image is not doing it justice.
	The biggest issues for police right now, first and foremost, it always has been, but they're now just starting to acknowledge it and talk about it and get real programs in place.
	Number one killer of cops is suicide.
	That's a weird statement to say, but like I got a guy I worked with who's in Texas right now.
	He's working in a program, a religious program that reaches out and helps cops and firemen and first responders with mental wellness.
	What's it called, Dino?
	Charter Oaks, Charter Oaks Academy or Charter Oaks something.
	But he just made me aware that this one police department in the last couple months, six hot cops killed themselves.
	You know, you just don't hear about that because it's bad publicity.
	Cops don't even want that out.
	You know, it's a scary thing when someone says, oh, cops are all killing themselves.
	Wow, all the cops are unstable.
	There just is no good publicity for cops.
	And what's happened recently, what happened this last time with the riots and the political aspect that got involved and allowed it to continue and the way it was put on the media and portrayed, it's set us back a lot.
	It's set policing back a lot.
	Cops are scared to do their job.
	They're just scared to do their job.
	I can't even imagine.
	Yeah, the public doesn't understand.
	When a guy comes, it's difficult to describe, but it's life and death.
	Cops shouldn't have to die just because the people want the fight to be fair.
	There is no fight here.
	My job is to get him in custody and take him before a magistrate.
	That's it.
	And I got to do what I got to do to get him in custody.
	But if this guy's fighting me the way he is, he'll kill.
	I have to think he'll kill me to get away.
	I have no choice.
	Yeah.
	Especially if a guy that's already killed other people or done things.
	This is a bad guy.
	It's not a good guy who's here on the ground.
	It's like, this ain't a great guy.
	Yes.
	You know, this ain't a guy who's been doing great stuff or learning Spanish or something all day.
	This is somebody who has been doing crime.
	How big is race become an issue?
	I was just going to say that.
	Is that where it gets to?
	Is that like become a big problem?
	I can only give you my experience.
	Right.
	So I'm only speaking for me.
	I worked at two different police departments.
	In the two police departments I worked in, one of the communities was predominantly black.
	It was South Central.
	The other one was predominantly Hispanic, Hispanic, white, you know, a little bit of everything.
	The statement that the police are systematically racist, I know for 100% is not true because I was part of the police.
	I was part of these two police departments.
	And if it was there, I tell you, did I see it?
	I absolutely, I absolutely did.
	In my entire career in the field, I saw two guys that I felt like that guy is treating that person different based on the color of his skin.
	Okay.
	It's not too bad over the whole course of it.
	The whole course.
	One guy was blatant.
	It was blatant.
	You know what I mean?
	And they actually got rid of him relatively quick.
	The other guy was as blatant, but it did appear that way.
	What is the reality of it is, is that when you work in a community, usually that community is, it's predominantly something.
	Oh, yeah.
	It's predominantly something.
	And it's not that you, because in my experience, in my police departments, I worked with black guys, Hispanic guys, Asian guys.
	We were everything, everything with women, you know.
	Yes, everything was represented.
	And within those walls, there was, it didn't matter.
	You know what I mean?
	If it, if it, if it did exist, it was something that we did with amongst each other and jest.
	Right.
	Like a guy like working with black ripping on me because some stereo, stupid stereotype about white people or whatever, you know, it was something we would do and joke about.
	But I never saw anyone treat anyone any different because of the color of skin.
	Unfortunately, what would happen is that you'd be in these communities and you would develop, I don't even like to use the word prejudice, but you would develop feelings about the way these communities operate because you're constantly coming in contact with the worst of it.
	Right.
	You know what I mean?
	Constantly in any scenario.
	Right.
	If I'm working in an all-black community, all or predominantly black, primarily Latino community, and I'm an officer, then I'm coming in contact with the bad guys from that community.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	You're dealing with the bad guys and you start to develop over years and years and years of the same.
	And there are unique aspects to different types of communities.
	You know, the crimes and the way the things that people do in Hispanic community are different than the black community, different than the white community, different to the Asian community.
	So there are things that go on that are repetitive where you start getting callous towards it.
	So it wasn't a matter of people being racially prejudiced.
	It was a matter of being, it's a terrible word, but prejudiced against specific aspects of a culture.
	You know, specific aspects of a culture.
	Like I can give you ones that aren't very controversial.
	There's a lot of the Hispanic community is really divided up.
	There's first generation Hispanics, there's second generation, and they're very different within themselves.
	Like a first hat generation of Hispanic people that come here, hardworking, kind, loving, family, just every, just good people.
	You know what I mean?
	You'd go like, hey, man, come stay with me for a week and not even think about it.
	But they were super, super hard drinkers.
	You know, they would get together for a quinceaneta and you'd get calls at three o'clock in the morning and they're all beating the shit out of each other because they're all so drunk, you know?
	Or at a two-year-old's birthday party, you get there and go like, it's a fucking two-year-old's birthday party.
	Why are you guys drunk?
	And it's three o'clock in the morning.
	But it was prevalent.
	So you would get callous towards that.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	And it's fun getting fucked up around a kid sometimes, you know, unless you're getting real weird.
	Yeah.
	Well, there's a lot of that too.
	But in every community that I dealt with, you would have that and people would start identifying stuff.
	And things would start becoming, you would develop calluses towards it.
	Right.
	Systematic racism.
	You never thought you had.
	Ah, man.
	And when they say that, it's so frustrating because I see some of it.
	And the incident where the dude knelt on his neck.
	Totally wrong.
	As a police officer, you're looking at that and going like, okay, for him to get in that situation, I'm not going to judge.
	For him to get in a situation where he's got his knee on his neck, I'm not going to judge because that can happen.
	I've been in situations where that happens where you're trying to get a guy in custody, even though he's handcuffed, he is still doing stuff that can cause harm to himself and others.
	There's no reason why that guy didn't after 10 to 15 seconds stand up and try to put that guy back into the car.
	So what he started doing and the world insinuated, that guy's racist.
	Well, we don't know if that had anything to do with the color of that guy's skin.
	All we do know is, is that guy crossed the line and should face consequences because he started administering punishment where he was at.
	And that is not his job.
	His job is into custody.
	And even if in his thought process, his intent was not to administer punishment, he should know better than to be in that situation for any length of time because it can cause harm.
	That guy was wrong.
	But to insinuate that it was race-based, and if I'm, I didn't watch it, but I don't think anything ever even came out where this, there was ever anything in this guy's background where there was any instance of racism whatsoever.
	Yeah.
	Yet if you go to ask anyone right now, if they're going to say, oh, that was racist.
	Cops are racist.
	We have no idea that that, it could have been.
	Could have been.
	You know, we'd have to be intimately involved.
	I imagine if there was any proof of that, they would have put it out everywhere.
	If they had found something, it would have been everywhere.
	Well, it's interesting now, too, because almost the race narrative is starting to, it's starting to evaporate over time because, and I think in some communities, obviously in the South, there's a ton of that.
	You know, there's historical like biases and like black people didn't have opportunities or money.
	They had to do what they could to survive.
	Yes.
	You know, and then you have cops who are predominantly white probably, and they, they were policing crimes and crime is a lot of times things you have to use to survive, you know, certainly like at times in the past, you know.
	But it's interesting that, shoot, what were we talking about?
	What did you say?
	Racism, yeah, so it's interesting that, yeah, because now it's like police forces are getting pretty diverse, super diverse, right?
	And so I've almost wondered, would it be better to have a policeman of that ethnicity show up?
	Absolutely, you know, and they're all starting to go towards that.
	Yeah, they are.
	My police department is predominant, when I started predominantly white, when I left, it's getting predominantly Hispanic.
	And I think that's smart.
	I think it's actually smart.
	Does it make it a little harder for the guy that's white that wants to get a job?
	You know, why is this going to have to find a different community?
	I guess, you know, but yeah, it's definitely going that direction.
	And it's definitely.
	Yeah, it's almost like they should have it.
	It's like, okay, we have, you know, two white suspects and two black suspects.
	Let's send a black police officer and a white police officer.
	You know?
	If you, unfortunately in police work, you don't have that time to go.
	I guess a dispatcher could.
	Right.
	They would know based on what they have out there of who to send to what.
	But again, you're policing specific areas.
	It would be harder than you think.
	Right.
	And it's crazy that we're having to even think about that kind of stuff.
	Right.
	But it's like you get so many like civil lawsuits and so many, it's just like, we've just taxed ourselves at the fucking guilt.
	You know, it's like we've.
	I don't even think that would, from my experience, that's not even a cure all.
	Well, yeah, it will.
	And I think it's a good move, but it's not a cure-all because I've seen, I've been in at scenes where a guy I was with was a black officer, and I've seen people attack him just like they were attacking me.
	You know what I mean?
	Because it wasn't really about, they hated that guy because of the uniform.
	I mean, that guy with my name tag Be White, he didn't know who I was.
	The way he was attacking me and all that, it was my uniform and the fact on top of it that I was white.
	But I see him do the same thing.
	It's just they don't like the police.
	They just don't like the police.
	There's just certain people that don't like the police.
	Yeah.
	And I think it's interesting too, because it's like some cultures, like black culture never really had a, like, America was always kind of a, kind of a white culture country, probably.
	You know, I mean, it was, there was diversity for sure.
	But I think like the people that ran the country were probably predominantly white, probably.
	Probably.
	So then I think a lot of society kind of has a white ring to it.
	So I think only now are you seeing a lot more society getting really pretty diverse, you know?
	So I think you're starting to see what these other cultures, what they even like to have in society or what they like their societies to be like.
	And so I think you're seeing like a merging of that.
	Like some societies, they might not like to have any rules or any policing.
	They think that.
	They think that.
	Right.
	Oh, yeah, they think that.
	They think that.
	But if you took the police out of some certain communities, communities that have more problems, if you completely took the police out of it and they knew the police, they would implode.
	There would be no community.
	Wow.
	It would be no community because criminals are going to be criminals.
	People are going to, they're going to feed on the weak, knowing that there's nothing there to stop them.
	They're going to get theirs at any extent.
	Policing is completely, totally necessary.
	How we do it is just going to continue to evolve.
	But right now, it's good.
	There's a good basis in place.
	What's happening to them is totally unfair.
	But we just got to get through this.
	And good will come of this.
	Amen.
	It's unfortunate, but good will come of this.
	Good came of Rodney King.
	Great things came of the Rodney King incident.
	It really, I saw it.
	I lived it.
	I watched the change.
	Oh, absolutely.
	When I first started, there was a lot of stuff that went on that slowly, I watched it get, you know, when you're, when you're new, you just kind of stand back.
	I watched it slowly get eliminated, slowly get better.
	Things slowly improve on the way they handle stuff, you know?
	Yeah.
	It's, it's, it's definitely getting better.
	And it's, it's going to get better.
	You know, I just, I just hope they continue to be fair because there's a lot of good dudes that are just doing the job.
	Yeah.
	Dude, I think I'm grateful for them, man.
	I'm really grateful for them.
	Yeah.
	They deal with a lot of, they deal with a lot of stuff, you know?
	Yeah.
	Not everybody gets gets to, not everybody sees this stuff, you know?
	Nobody, not everybody sees someone blow their head off.
	You know what I mean?
	Try that once.
	See how that changes your life.
	I can't even imagine it.
	Really?
	Take one person and watch one time, watch someone in front of them blow their head off and then see how it changed.
	Do an experiment.
	Follow that guy around.
	See how that changes life.
	Now take that guy, that same guy, and do it for 20 years every single day.
	What do you expect?
	Yeah, I can't.
	I lose it if somebody has left like a big thing, a piece of chunk of hair.
	Like if they had a bunch of hair in the drain, I would like, yeah, I couldn't even, that makes me nervous.
	And probably the thought about it going back, like give the example of that.
	I watched the guy put a double barrel shotgun in his mouth when his mom was standing right beside him and blow his head off.
	Yeah, standing in the doorway.
	Remember back in the day in the older houses in Whittier, they had those screen doors, you know, the decorative stuff on the front.
	It was a screen door.
	The mom came running out screaming, hey, my son, my son, he's suicidal.
	And she kind of got behind me by the car and I looked over at the house and the door was open.
	The screen door was there and the guy walked right up to the screen door.
	He had one of those old school double barrel shotguns, stuck it in his mouth and pulled the trigger.
	His head expanded like a cartoon.
	The gases expanded his head.
	It was, I can't do justice in trying to get you to understand what it looked like.
	Mom freaking out.
	Just the dynamics of that scenario.
	That's not right there.
	Then on top of it, I had to go inside the house and I'm pushing the screen door to get this guy because he basically Las Vegas hotel explosion falled right in front of the door.
	So I'm trying to push him out of the way.
	And it didn't even dawn on me as I'm pushing in.
	His brain matter was on the scene.
	It fell into the back of my shirt.
	Yeah.
	Which to this day, I can feel it.
	You know what I mean?
	And now this is, this is one small scenario.
	Imagine that happening to you one time, how that would change the course of your life.
	I know it sounds dramatic, but don't you think it would?
	Yeah.
	Don't you think it would look a lot of stuff different?
	Don't you think it would feel a lot different?
	yeah.
	I don't know if I would keep being able to feel after a certain point, right?
	Yeah, and then have to keep it in that.
	I had to keep that thing, I had to keep it in my shirt for like four hours.
	Dude, we tried to wash it out and all that, but it came down to taking off my shirt and vest and everything.
	It was but once sorry, I was gonna ask a question.
	Um, you mentioned all these violent situations, but you were a homicide detective.
	Was that fulfilling?
	Is it fulfilling like helping find a person?
	No, that was my least favorite.
	That was absolutely my least favorite assignment.
	It's the one that was homicide detective here talking.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	It's the one I, it's the one I worked towards my whole career.
	And then once I got into it, it was just, there was no real satisfaction.
	There was satisfaction in catching the person that did it, but it was overshadowed by what the act left everyone around it in.
	You know, again, I had domestic violence.
	I had a domestic violence situation that was, I can say, was gratifying in catching who did it and such, but a lot of the gang ones, it just didn't matter.
	It just didn't matter.
	You know, you would catch the guy and someone else would do it or he'd get out and do it again.
	And there was so much sadness and sorrow surrounding it because the court cases were long and drawn out.
	You were sitting with the family for sometimes years getting through these processes and you were the last attachment that they had to these people.
	So they would become really attached to you.
	They would bring me Christmas presents, you know, even after the case was done.
	And I would politely tell them, I can't accept this for a lot of reasons, but the primary one is I can't have this relationship.
	I can't have this emotional tie to you because I got a million more of these.
	And if I start doing that, I'm done.
	You know what I mean?
	This has to be, you have to be your groceries that I bagged.
	And you got to take that bag of groceries and you got to get out of here because I got to get on to the next one.
	And it's just, it's, it's too much mentally to have an emotional tie with you whatsoever.
	So homicide was a lot of that.
	And it was always.
	I mean, this has to be heartbreaking.
	Heartbreaking.
	Because it's heartbreaking to them too.
	It's like.
	Even when it was a gang member, even when it was a gang member that was killed, that was a brutal murderer himself, he had a mom.
	And I was always in contact with that mom.
	You know what I mean?
	And it just, it would just, it was almost impossible to deal with.
	And I'm, I'm a little, I admit it, man, going into it.
	I'm a little too sensitive to have probably done this job, but it was just draining, man.
	There's no good scenario in homicide.
	And then if you don't catch the guys that did it, it weighs on you.
	It weighs on you that you couldn't, you couldn't do it.
	You know, you couldn't figure it out.
	You failed.
	And this guy's going to do it again.
	So there's almost a level of responsibility that is homicide was a different beast.
	No bueno, man.
	No good.
	I got a lot of good things out of other assignments.
	Do you think there's a lot of serial killers out there still?
	Serial killers?
	Depends on your definition of a serial killer.
	Seems hard to do now.
	Well, if your definition of a serial killer is someone that kills a lot of people, yeah.
	Yeah, there is.
	There's gang members out there that have killed five, six, seven people, and they're going to kill more people.
	But the world doesn't look at that guy as a serial killer.
	It doesn't fit the definition or if you go to a training class, they're not teaching you that this guy's a serial killer.
	You know what I mean?
	The quintessential serial killer is so uncommon.
	So, so, so uncommon.
	It just, nobody's breaking into home, strangers' homes and, you know, doing the night stalker shit.
	Is there a hypothesis that when you get into that job that that'll be what it's like and stuff?
	Is there that kind of like?
	Kind of, kind of, you know, and it's like anything when you look.
	I mean, I, in an industry like this, I imagine you look at someone that's doing something else and going like, oh, that's where I want to be.
	That's where I want to be.
	That's where I want to be because that's where it's happening.
	And then you get there and you go, fuck, this ain't that great.
	You know, I want to, so I want to be there.
	I want to be there.
	And no matter what, you get there and you go like, at least my experiences, it's not what I thought it was.
	It was actually better back there.
	I want to go back there because that was a lot better.
	But homicide, I mean, look at the infatuation with cops.
	Look at my TV shows and movies.
	You've seen everything.
	Everything.
	Killing.
	It's like, yeah, I think I've seen every episode of true crime.
	The world's infatuated with it.
	And what you're seeing is that you're seeing that fake, not fake, you're seeing that surface aspect of it.
	You're not seeing the stuff that we've been talking about, you know, what's behind all that, but you're seeing that.
	So even going into it, you go like, oh, look at that dude.
	That dude's been around.
	The reality of it is he's so fucked up and callous that he's totally quiet and cool.
	You know, I want to be that guy, man.
	I want to do that shit.
	Got a suit on, looking good.
	People always go, hey, you work homicide.
	You ever work homicide?
	You can be a homicide detective.
	And it's just, again, it goes back to that thing is you just don't get it.
	You know what I mean?
	Homicide is where you want to get, but when you get there, you just, my experience was I just wanted to get the fuck out.
	I just.
	So you graduated finally.
	You're out?
	I'm out.
	I'm retired.
	They got to pay me for the rest of my life.
	Amen, brother.
	You deserve it.
	I hope so.
	I think so.
	I can't even.
	It's not a tremendous amount of money, but it's a good chunk that most people don't have.
	And what else do you want to do after?
	Did you start to develop different thoughts or things?
	I'm working.
	I work for a company, a big company that owns lots of businesses, and I do asset protection for them.
	You know, just real surface investigations of money crimes and, you know, basic, simple, almost stupid.
	No pressure.
	It's dumb.
	What I do, I admit it, but they pay me well.
	And sometimes I get a little antsy and go, God, my life.
	Look at my life now.
	My life is so boring.
	And this sucks.
	And I got to do something else.
	But I got a wife I love.
	I got a kid I adore.
	And, you know, I got fam.
	I just, this is good.
	I'll ride this out.
	Does your child want to be an officer?
	Fuck no.
	We made that clear day one.
	When my kid was little, we made that very clear with one sentence.
	You will fucking never be a cop.
	So don't even think about it.
	Don't dream about it.
	Don't anything.
	It will never fucking happen.
	What about a fireman?
	Fuck yeah.
	Hell yeah.
	I'll do anything to get him as a fireman.
	Yeah, dude.
	Let's get him some franks.
	Right.
	With the understanding that there's going to be trauma, but police work, man.
	There's just, if I could go back in time, as much as my experience, there was joy that I hold on to and go, God, that was, that was awesome.
	I'm so glad I did that.
	That was exciting.
	My life is this.
	And people want to hear it's crazy to think people want to hear about it.
	You got me sitting here talking about what I did, and it is a crazy thought to go.
	People actually are interested because they don't understand.
	And when they hear it, they go, Whoa, that's kind of fucking really crazy.
	That's crazy to me because that's just what I did.
	You know what I mean?
	So there's aspects I would say, oh, it would be sad if I never did that.
	But if I could go back in time, I would totally, totally, totally do something different.
	Wow.
	But I got here by luck.
	I never planned on being a cop.
	Like I said, my, my growing up was a criminal.
	You're not a criminal.
	No, but I was.
	I was doing bad things.
	You were a deviant.
	But I was a deviant.
	I was, I was insecure and doing bad things, man.
	You know what I mean?
	Yeah, you know, but how I became a cop, and this is back in the day, is I had nothing going on.
	I had no plans, man.
	You know, I was doing nothing.
	There was just no future.
	So I started coaching my little brother's Pop Warner team with my dad.
	And the guy that was coaching with me was a instructor in the police academy.
	And literally one day during the game, he's going, what are you doing now, man?
	I'm like, I got nothing going on.
	He goes, I'll get you in the fucking police academy in a couple weeks if you want.
	And I went, all right.
	That sounds cool, man.
	Let's do it.
	And that's, that's how it happened.
	Wow.
	That's fucking how it happened.
	I woke up the next day and I was pulling out on the street with a gun and a police car going like, these guys got no fucking idea.
	You know what I mean?
	They got no idea.
	But it, it served me well.
	It served my background served me well.
	I was able to do that job, I think, better than most, strictly based on experience and compassion, you know, of understanding the dynamic of taking away someone's freedoms, a big fucking deal.
	And we need to avoid that at all costs.
	We need to avoid that at all costs.
	Then getting them in the system and getting this record and all the things that come with it, I knew the magnitude of it.
	I didn't take it lightly ever.
	Even, you know, I used to get 17, 18 year old girls for DUIs and it was gut-wrenching to me.
	You know, it was gut-wrenching.
	Boys, anybody, it was just gut-wrenching of taking them and putting them in a jail cell and realizing this is going to change the course of your life forever.
	You know, hopefully it'll be positive, but this is, they would be crying and it was just traumatic.
	It was just traumatic.
	Most cops, you know, let's go get the fuck in the cell and let's get past this.
	And you were drunk and I saved lives and I got to get out there and I got to find some real crime.
	You know what I mean?
	I mean, I can remember sitting and thinking, like talking to them in this cell and just going like, it's going to be okay.
	Right.
	It's going to be okay.
	I know you hate me right now, but it's, it's going to be okay.
	And you're, one thing I do know, I hope, is you're never going to be here again.
	Right.
	And you didn't kill nobody.
	You know what I mean?
	So those kind of aspects for me, I really look back at it and go like, I was meant to be there as much as I didn't deserve maybe to be there.
	And the way it just happened to me to be there.
	Want to be able to share this story today too with us too, you know, because yeah, like I feel too much.
	I've always been too much of a feeler, you know?
	And so I think you need people that have a little extra feeling sometimes to get out of instances sometimes and share, you know, share some of the feeling side of it.
	And I'll be especially your job.
	I'll be judged.
	I'll be judged based on this from people in the industry.
	People in the industry will absolutely judge me based on this is literally, believe it or not, this is the absolute first fucking time I have ever publicly said anything about my childhood and being arrested and being in custody.
	I worked with guys who are my friends who I care deeply about and I never made mention of it and so much time went on.
	I just thought it's irrelevant and there's no reason to bring it up and I just never did.
	I just buried it.
	This is the absolute first fucking time I've ever admitted that.
	And it'll be interesting.
	I don't know who's going to see it or what.
	It'll be interesting to see what I'm an old guy now.
	You know, it's interesting to see if people actually come back at me and go, you motherfucker, or whatever it is, the reaction I get.
	You fucking criminal.
	But I do hope that people do listen to it and go like, hey, what's fascinating?
	There's something to it.
	It's fascinating, man.
	And it's fascinating.
	You know, we had a border patrol security guy on one time, which is just a public service job, I get, you know, in a way, or something in the same world a little bit.
	Yes.
	But it was interesting to hear about the border and the things that go on there and the people that are getting run back and forth across there and how cartels own different pieces of land there.
	So if you even want to transport someone across a piece of land, you have to pay that cartel even to like coyote somebody across the land.
	And how a lot of the people coming in, some of them aren't even Mexican.
	And a lot of them are fucking, you know, Middle Eastern and they're fucking a lot of pedophile, a lot of creep.
	Just shit was like, Jesus Christ.
	There's a lot of aspects to that that you don't even think of that we dealt with on a daily basis.
	A lot of people that come in are obviously coming here because they want a better life.
	Totally down for that.
	You know, there's just a process.
	We just need the process.
	Just do it the legal process.
	Come, everybody come, but let's just go through this process because we need that process because you wouldn't believe how many people come here and they don't have the means or they decide, they don't have car insurance.
	They don't, they're all these different things that they're just bypassing where it's causing such turmoil in our world and our system.
	You know what I mean?
	Those are the problems.
	Well, all of that, it's all like, how long are we going to strain the walls of our system?
	I mean, we already don't even, you know, and then it still expect people to put a president on television and be like, America, you know, it's like, don't sell me this fucking thing if you're not, if it's not a real product.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	And that's what's really kind of happened.
	I think it's, that's a lot of kind of what's, you know, it's one of the issues.
	They bag it up into one thing.
	You know, if you're against it, they say, well, you're a racist.
	Yeah.
	I'm not a racist at all.
	I couldn't give a shit.
	The only reason that I even think about it is because you keep talking about it.
	But I just want them to come here.
	I want them here.
	Let's make sure they have a path to get here.
	Oh, yeah.
	But let's just follow the rules to get here.
	That's it.
	Well, you have to have roll call.
	You have to have like, if you don't know inventory, any business that doesn't have good inventory will go out of business.
	If you don't have know what's on the shelves or know what's here or what's there, it's going to go out of business, man.
	And that's what fucking starts to get scary because you have other people that are just like, well, I was born here.
	I'm just trying to play by whatever rules I was born into.
	Maybe they were more fortunate than some other places.
	I don't know.
	In some ways, they probably were.
	In some ways, they probably weren't.
	But I'm just trying to play by the fucking rules.
	And everybody's got to play by the rules.
	And when our government isn't even playing by the rules anymore, then it's Like, well, then it makes it tough to think that someone just an everyday man is going to be like, okay, I'm going to keep playing by them.
	And I think that makes you guys job even tougher.
	It's like now you're having to almost do a government's job.
	Well, we are police departments are the government.
	Right.
	But they're just that wing that it's got to take care of all that stuff.
	Right.
	And you shouldn't be like the you're the most accessible part of the government too for people.
	And that's fucking kind of scary.
	Because then you have people, if they don't like the government or they think this or they think that, then you're the person that they can really reach to take it out on.
	You know, I don't know.
	I'm just kind of rambling.
	Not me, not anymore.
	You're free, baby.
	Free, man.
	What were some any news topics we wanted to hit before we get this man out of here?
	Not specifically news, but I did want to hear about when you were on the show, Cops.
	Oh, yeah.
	Good call.
	Oh, yeah.
	Okay.
	So cops, it's super interesting thing.
	I used to watch that as a family god.
	Yeah, I used to watch it too.
	Crazy.
	Dude, I met Roseanne Barr last night.
	How was that?
	The awesomest time.
	Oh, really?
	Dude, I was.
	How did that get?
	Why did you bring up Roseanne Barr right now?
	I just, I don't know.
	I thought about it and I was so excited.
	And I meant to tell you a little while ago.
	Did you ever see her show growing up?
	Oh, absolutely.
	Oh, dude, I'm on stage at the comedy store, right?
	And I hear this laugh in the back.
	And only one other time it happened to me was Damon Wayans.
	I heard his laugh and I grew up watching his laugh.
	And I heard her laugh.
	And I, and it fucking just flipped in my head.
	I didn't know that she was back there.
	And I was like, oh my God, that Roseanne Barr is in the room tonight, in the crowd, you know?
	There's probably 200 people in there or something sold out.
	She was nice.
	She was howling laughing.
	So then I'm like, I got, I'm going to do the best I can.
	Like for all the years that she made me laugh or made me feel or made me feel like I, you know, mattered in the fucking universe with that poor family that they worked on.
	I wanted to just have that one moment to like give as much back of that as I could.
	And I crushed.
	Right on.
	And then I got to meet her after.
	And anyway, I was just so freaking excited.
	And some girl came up and was like, oh, I want you to tell.
	And I even said to that girl, you are a menace right now.
	Okay.
	I've worked too hard to get to meet Roseanne.
	Right.
	And you are fucking ruining it.
	And she still goes, well, I just want to tell you.
	She just kept saying Roseanne finally was like, you are ruining it.
	Oh, it was so good.
	That's funny that Roseanne Barr did that for you.
	Anyway, I mean, look, there was definitely some other women did it too, but she had an impact.
	And I just love her comedy.
	And they tried to cancel her and it just fucked and was like, fuck them.
	What did they try to cancel her for?
	They canceled her for some.
	She had a tweet that the Twitter said was racist and she referenced like, I don't even know what it was, but it wasn't racist.
	It was just like the general term.
	And they, you know, you know how Twitter was.
	Hopefully it'll get better.
	But anyway, let's, yeah, the cops.
	Let's hear it.
	So cops, the way cops operates is, is that there's, there's, there's a few film crews.
	There's a sound guy and there's a camera guy.
	And I think I don't remember how many meant by it.
	It was very few, like four or five of these teams.
	And these guys were so interesting.
	They essentially go out and by the time they came to our police department, it had really changed because of civil law where you weren't able just to film shit and throw it on TV.
	You had to get waivers from everyone that was involved.
	And that involved criminals signing off saying, yeah, you can use that shit, which is fucking so stupid.
	If you signed off on that shit, you're the dumbest guy on the face of the earth because it's all now evidence.
	It could be used against you in court.
	So it was really tough to get those guys to sign off.
	But believe it or not, you know, unfortunately, when it comes to crime, you're not dealing with a lot of scholars.
	So you would get a lot of signatures.
	But by then, it was a little tougher.
	So what they would do is, is they would ride with you.
	They would pick an officer and they was fortunate enough to be picked.
	And they would ride with you for two months, every single shift.
	Yeah.
	And that time I was working 312s, which is three shifts, 12, three 12-hour shifts, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, which was the busiest.
	That's why, at graveyards.
	So that's why they wanted to ride with me.
	So you would go out with these guys and it, and the, man, it was like, it was like, it was like performance anxiety.
	You know what I mean?
	It's like, oh, you guys, I felt this.
	It's in his 20s.
	Yeah, right.
	Jesus.
	I just felt this need to perform, man, you know, and it's harrowing.
	Police work is some days there's just nothing going on.
	You know, you got to, you got to self-generate, whether it be tickets and hope you can come up with something.
	So I always felt this pressure to go out, but speaking with these guys and their experiences, like the sound guy had been shot in the leg.
	The other guy, something had happened.
	Their stories were awesome because they had been all over.
	They were telling me stories, dude.
	I'm just going like, fuck, that is so awesome, dude.
	I can't even believe you experienced all this shit that you've experienced.
	I mean, these guys probably walked away from that show and have mental problems themselves.
	Yeah.
	Because they essentially were cops all the time on patrol.
	Well, imagine you're a sound guy and you're like, oh, it sounds like somebody got shot and then it's fucking you.
	Whatever, you know, I mean, they had all kinds, these guys had great stories.
	So essentially they would ride with you the whole time.
	And the issue became is you felt so much pressure to get material.
	Oh, yeah.
	That when they rode with me, they rode with two different officers, me and another guy.
	And I literally didn't make the show.
	I literally didn't make the show.
	I didn't why and the one time I did, the guy wouldn't sign off and they couldn't make the cuts to make it relevant.
	So I literally didn't make, but I actually became really good friends with these guys because we'd spent so much time in talking that I was talking to him.
	I don't now, but I was talking to him for quite a bit calling going, where are you at?
	And what's going on?
	And but the way that they do cops is when when you watch it, it looks like it's it's it's progressive.
	It looks like this is happening.
	You know what I mean?
	And it never registers with you and like they go, they're in the car and they get the radio call.
	And it's like, you know, 372 respond to non-breather, yeah, whatever it is.
	And you see the cop go, okay.
	And then all of a sudden he's driving and then it cuts away and you see the car making a right-hand turn onto a street.
	It never really registers you with the go, well, how the fuck did they know he was going there to be on that thing?
	You know what I mean?
	I'm a guy that has no idea of the industry and editing all that.
	So it wasn't until they rode with me and I watched the cops and I went, well, how the fuck Are they getting all these angles and shit?
	So, what ends up happening is find out is they would, we would have the situation, they would get out and they would, they would be in it.
	I mean, you would have to literally tell these guys, look at dude, you need to step the fuck back.
	You know, you need to get behind that car right now.
	I get it, but I need you to do that.
	So, they were always up on you and they'd be filming and getting everything they can.
	And then they would go back and go, Hey, look it, I think this is something we can use.
	So, this is what I need you to do.
	I need you to drop my camera guy off on that corner.
	And I want you to go back to this street.
	And then I want you to fake like you're responding to the radio.
	I'm going to be in it filming you, you know, with the other camera.
	So, there's acting involved, you know what I mean?
	And I was a young kid and I just couldn't do it, dude.
	I'm just not an actor, you know what I mean?
	So they would like be filming you.
	So, all those guys you see doing it, that's all acting up until the actual scenario.
	Wow.
	Which it never really, never really crossed my mind.
	No, yeah.
	In my mind, I'm just saying, oh, that makes sense.
	They have footage everywhere and they're just getting all the, you know, that's like, they're just dialed in and getting everything that's you don't even think about.
	Nah, they would have tell me, okay, now I want you to come and open that door.
	You know what I mean?
	And then you go back and watch an episode and go, okay, now this shit makes sense.
	Why didn't that ever register with me?
	This is all bullshit.
	You know what I mean?
	Except for the actual scenarios themselves.
	You know, they would just film it raw and they would do their editing magic and make an episode.
	But it takes two months every single night with two different teams for a half-hour episode.
	And they said they struggle sometimes to get that.
	Damn.
	Yeah.
	I've struggled to get it, brother.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	It's weird that we're watching crime.
	Is it weird that we watch crime, that we devour it like that?
	What does it do to our psyche when we just see crime, when we see murder disappearing?
	You know, what does it do to us over time?
	I couldn't even answer that question.
	I always think, I wonder, how did I think about this kind of shit before I was exposed to all this shit?
	Because I don't think the same way you do.
	You know what I mean?
	You don't think the same way I do.
	Because I have a different perspective of it'd be like me having an opinion and the way I think about what I just explained, movies, videos, editing.
	I don't understand how it works.
	I don't know what's going on.
	I don't know what it all pertains.
	Same deal with police work.
	I don't remember how I thought before, which is how you would think about it in its entirety.
	You know, cops, what they do, what's going on, all that kind of shit, because I did it for 20 years.
	So I watch people and they watch these shows.
	And most of the shows, I go, fuck, this is so stupid.
	I can't even watch this, dude, because the world thinks this is what it is.
	And this is so far from what it is.
	This is just entertainment.
	But I don't know what the fascination with it because I see it and I just go, I'll watch it.
	And in my mind, there'll be a scene where I've seen cop movies where like these guys with AK-47s in the street and shoot it, which is totally unrealistic, but anything like a shooting or anything.
	And for me, it just makes me feel bad.
	You know what I mean?
	For me, it just nine times out of 10, it will make me think of something that's inside my brain that I don't even remember and know that it's there anymore.
	That all of a sudden, like the example we said earlier, I'll see a kid in a red jacket and all of a sudden I'll, I'll, I'll literally watch that kid and it just did.
	That was a kid that ran into traffic.
	Yeah.
	I'll watch that kid die again.
	And I'll always go like, what the fuck?
	You know, why the fuck am I thinking about that?
	And when is that finally going to be gone?
	And that's so crazy.
	And that's all shit I'm doing to myself in my mind.
	I'm not talking about it.
	I don't talk to my wife about it, but that's my experience.
	That happens to me a lot.
	You know, I mean, it happens to me a lot.
	Little triggers, what they call them, you know, and I'll, and I'll think, and I won't, it's never a good time to go, you know what I just thought of, honey?
	I just thought of the first time I watched this fucking guy because I saw that kid.
	You just kind of keep it to yourself because it's just the way that it is.
	So when the rest of the world watches that shit, I don't know, dude.
	I don't know what the fascination is.
	The same idea, I guess, is why did you want me to come in here and talk today?
	Because I guess people want to know.
	They want to know.
	They want to know.
	They want to see.
	They want to understand.
	The problem with TV is that's a very watered down version of reality.
	Right.
	And it's also a version that they have mastered how to have the algorithm of and make it as cheap to shoot, as efficient as possible, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	And a lot of the people, the worst part is I think a lot of cop, maybe, you know, 50 years ago, cop shows or detective shows, somebody involved in the production may have had a family member that was an officer.
	Now it's like, I feel like some of these people making stuff are so far removed from any of the reality of it that they don't even have a human sense of it.
	And so, you know, absolutely.
	And if you watch as a cop, if you watch a show and you'll see it and you go, dude, someone in law enforcement had something to do with this.
	You can tell.
	Someone that knows a cop or is a cop or has been a pastor.
	They got a consultant or someone.
	Someone told them that because no one else would know that.
	What about this, man?
	Say it's a quiet night out there.
	You ever, is there a way to bus off and get you a 20-minute nap in somewhere?
	Oh, hell yeah.
	Fuck yeah.
	Yeah, hell yeah.
	They had spots, man.
	Especially on graveyards, 312s.
	After 4 o'clock, shit's silent.
	The radio's silent.
	Yeah.
	That's it, man.
	We would get together because you want to be safe and we'd find sleep in a group, you know.
	Like wolves or something.
	Pretty much.
	And one guy was lions.
	You know, lions sleep in a group.
	Yeah.
	Everybody had, there was always one guy that had to stay up.
	Oh, you know what I mean?
	Then that guy, nine times out of ten, would fucking fall asleep anyways.
	You know what I mean?
	Love that guy.
	Yeah, but that happened.
	That happens every night in cities, you know?
	I mean, you just have to, you know, you just got to do it in a responsible way.
	And we would have a couple of times we would go behind this church and it was a parking lot that was really secluded with the wall.
	It was perfect, you know.
	We'd have like six cars back there.
	Everybody sleep.
	And some of the guys would even take off their belts, you know, to get more comfortable because laying sprawled across, bring blankets to lay over in the middle.
	But we actually would get woken up once in a while by the priest.
	He would come in the morning and see us all there and knock on our window.
	And it became a thing, you know, we're all thank you so much.
	And he was cool about it.
	He never told on us.
	And, you know, it just became our safe.
	It was really safe because we had a priest.
	Yeah, dude.
	God was what?
	Yeah, he's watching over us.
	God was literally watching over you.
	That's pretty cool.
	Yeah.
	Did, oh, did they have, you know, a lot of people send him people send him videos a lot of like drug-induced homosexuality, like men that will do drugs and then start making out.
	You guys see a lot of that out there?
	In Wheater, we had a pretty prominent gay community.
	but anybody being gay is just kind of like that's normal.
	That's like a regular some people are gay, some people are straight, some people are in the middle.
	I'm talking about men that get geeked up on pills or powder or uppers.
	Poppers and all that kind of stuff.
	Yeah, methamphetamine is really big in the gay community.
	So will meth lead people to being gay, you think?
	No, you could give me about a pound of meth, and I don't think I'd ever be gay.
	I don't think it ever leads up to being gay, but it definitely, it definitely, I think it enhanced the situations, you know?
	We had a part, yeah, right?
	That's all it takes, though, is a little enhancement.
	Get that video, Zach.
	Do we have it?
	I'm looking for it.
	Okay, cool.
	Thanks.
	Yeah, we had a park where they would, where the gay community would get together and kind of meet each other.
	And it was in the bathroom.
	There was this whole process that they would participate in to meet one another.
	And you would stand at the urinal in the public bathroom.
	And if you were standing there long enough and did the right looks enough, the other guys would know.
	And it was, hey, how are you?
	And sometimes a little further.
	So we would have guys work at that time just because the people didn't like it in the park.
	And it became real prevalent in one park.
	You know what I mean?
	And sometimes the sexual activity was a little rampant, being performed in a public park.
	So they wanted to go away.
	So we'd had guys undercover that would go in and stand there.
	And we actually had an officer that was standing there and he made himself known as a police officer because it became apparent.
	And the guy grabbed his junk and got a death grip on it because he was scared, you know?
	And yeah, the situation was hilarious because he wouldn't let go.
	And we all had to come in and we're screaming at this guy, let him go, let him go.
	And the guys that's holding on his wiener.
	Cops, yeah.
	This guy's standing there with a death grip on his thing.
	And he doesn't even want to get in a fight or nothing because there ain't a lot holding that on, you know?
	So, right?
	Yeah, all it takes is one real meth head to rip hard.
	I imagine.
	Yeah, that's something I don't want to discover.
	But do, did some guys have to get stationed in the bathroom sometimes?
	That's what we would do.
	We would go in the bathroom and put ourselves in the situation to because it was a whole process.
	And drugs were very prevalent.
	Hey, can I give you some of this?
	Let's see what this is what's happening.
	We're seeing people sending in this type of stuff here.
	And these two gentlemen, you can...
	And now they're just buddies, you know, but I think the drugs at a certain point get you pretty close there.
	Like, oh, we.
	Yeah.
	It's like, I don't know, that's almost like a goodbye.
	It doesn't really, see, that to me doesn't seem like really like homoerotic behavior.
	That just seemed like two fellas like, I'm fucked up.
	Are you?
	I'm going to miss you.
	It looks like the one guy is maybe not totally into it and maybe he's just trying to get a free Slurpee or something.
	There's something in it for him.
	But this is a lot of what's been going on these days.
	And people have been sending in a lot of videos like this.
	Yeah.
	We actually, when I was in homicide, I actually went to a training course where they taught about in the community, in the gay community, apparently, based on the training I received, there's something called, it was called, they called it homosexual overkill.
	And when there's murders involved in the gay community, it's usually really, really brutal, really passionate, really over the top, you know, like chopping each other, chopping up.
	And I think the training was just to make you aware when you came to a murder, if you saw something that was completely over the top as far as the way it went down, that it was.
	There could be that vibe.
	It could be an avenue to start looking at.
	Maybe this is a maybe a gay community thing that we can get some information from or something.
	Like Jeffrey Dahmer, really.
	Essentially, yeah.
	I mean, I remember going to the training and it was, it was very graphic.
	Wow.
	Whether that's true in its entirety or not, I don't know.
	Well, gay guys, I think, do everything to extreme kind of.
	So I don't think I would be shocked if they're like, you know, Julian a guy up or something if he's being, you know, a bad guy.
	Yeah.
	I think we covered a lot of stuff.
	What do you think there, Zach?
	Yeah, we pretty much covered everything in the run of the show.
	A lot of stories.
	Bro, we'd love, look, man, I think we'd love to even have you back sometimes.
	We'll have you back when there's a crime or something or if there's something neat that we can talk about.
	I've just really enjoyed learning about what some of your experience has been like, you know, and getting a little bit more of an emotional aspect of what an officer goes through and could potentially go through every day.
	That's crazy.
	Man, I think about a 21-year-old guy just rolling out of a parking lot in a vehicle.
	In a different time.
	I mean, a good time when cops were looked at a little different.
	I used to post up at 3 o'clock in the morning at the nightclubs getting out, you know, because there was actually an appeal to being a police officer.
	So, you know, I started in a good time and I ended in a bad time for being a cop, you know?
	Do you think we can get to a better time again or do you think we you're curious to see how we're going to get there?
	Yeah, I don't know.
	We got to.
	We have to.
	It's got to get better.
	It can't get any worse or we're going to be in real trouble.
	But I really appreciate you having me in here and having the venue to, you know, say some, tell you some stuff about what it really is like.
	And I hope it's been beneficial.
	It's been awesome, man.
	It's been fascinating.
	Brad White, thank you so much for your time, man.
	Absolutely.
	Thank you.
	You bet.
	Happy holidays.
	You too.
	Now I'm just footing on the breeze.
	And I feel I'm falling like these leaves.
	I must be caught in stone.
	Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind.
	I found I can feel it in my bones.
	But it's gonna take ladies and gentlemen, I'm Jonathan Kite and welcome to Kite Club, a podcast where I'll be sharing thoughts on things like current events, stand-up stories, and seven ways to pleasure your partner.
	The answer may shock you.
	Sometimes I'll interview my friends.
	Sometimes I won't.
	And as always, I'll be joined by the voices in my head.
	You have three new voice messages.
	A lot of people are talking about Kite Club.
	I've been talking about Kite Club for so long, longer than anybody else.
	So great.
	Hi, Suiar.
	Is it deal?
	Anyone who doesn't listen to Kite Club is a dodgy bloody wanker.
	Jamain.
	I'll take a quarter potter with cheese and a McFlurry.
	Sorry, sir, but our ice cream machine is broken.
	I think Tom Hanks just butt-dialed me.
	Anyway, first rule of Kite Club is tell everyone about Kite Club.
	Second rule of Kite Club is tell everyone about Kite Club.
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