July 27, 2024 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
What a great night.
What a great night it always is to be with you, ladies and gentlemen.
This is Saturday evening, the 27th evening of July 2024.
First hour, Reverend Jim Dawson, great hour.
And last hour, you heard from Brad Griffin about contemporary political topics, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, chief among them.
But I thought as we get back into the seventh of our 12th installment, that means we're seven months into this year, Keith.
But seven months in, this is installment seven of 12.
I thought it would be good to pair Hutton Gibson, Mel Gibson's father, to the interview that we had in the first hour with Reverend Dawson.
And it's important that we do this.
First of all, it showcases the body of work, really the excellence that we've been able to sustain over the course of 20 years.
Newer listeners will not have heard these interviews, these interviews that in some cases were one and done.
And it wasn't the case with Hutton Gibson, but with some people it was.
Going back to the first installment of this retrospective series.
And again, this retrospective series is something we have featured once per month, intermittently, throughout this 20th anniversary year of ours.
We are revisiting clips from some of our most memorable interviews over the course of the past two decades with fresh reaction and commentary.
It's been a long time since I heard this one from Hutton Gibson.
But in January, we featured Drew Lackey, the police officer, former chief of police in Montgomery, who arrested Rosa Parks.
Anthony Kumia in February.
Zelchko Glasnovich in March to complement our march around the world.
Former general, former member of parliament in Croatia.
Walter Jones, the first member of the United States Congress, sitting member of the United States Congress to appear on our show.
Sonny Landham, the movie star, Donald Trump Jr. last month.
So that's a diverse group to be sure.
Tonight, Hutton Gibson.
Hutton Gibson, of course, is the father of Mel Gibson, but he's a lot more than that.
He was an author, a World War II veteran, former Jeopardy champion, and so much more.
But I think most importantly, a good friend of ours.
So he appeared on the show a few times.
One time, especially became the talk of Hollywood.
It was, I think, maybe of all the interviews we've done, maybe second to Donald Trump Jr. and maybe some of the Buchanan interviews in terms of it creating its own news cycle.
And a big one in terms of entertainment news and celebrity gossip and all of those rags.
Hutton Gibson passed away a couple of years ago at the age of 101, but he was a good friend of ours for a long time.
And this interview goes all the way back to 2010.
This was the one appearance he made that really got the media cycle cycling.
And the first verse you're going to hear, the first voice you're going to hear is Bill Rowland asking this question.
Bill Rowland, longtime TBC co-host, long since passed.
Won't it be great to hear his voice again?
That's why I like pulling these out of the archives.
So this gets this interview started.
A lot of things we want to say about this one, but let's start right now because time is fleeting.
Mr. Gibson, one of the current events that's taken place recently was the overturning by the courts of Proposition 8 in California, which Proposition 8 was a referendum which banned homosexual marriages in that state.
And one of my questions to you, since you are our leader for this program, our leading expert on the Catholic Church, is why was the Catholic Church supposedly the moral guardian of so many different issues?
Why was the Catholic Church silent on this issue on Proposition 8?
Was it the separation of church and state?
Or is there some ambiguity from the Vatican concerning this issue?
Well, you have to remember that this isn't the Catholic Church anymore that's in the Vatican or in the local dioceses or parishes or anywhere.
It's a new wrinkle, about 50 years old.
And it is nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
It has nothing to do with morals.
It has nothing to do with responsibility.
It's an organization put together to destroy the Catholic Church from within.
And whatever it does does not surprise me.
So, in other words, do you think the Catholic Church, as it stands today, the Vatican, has become politicized to the extent that it's no longer able to take on controversial issues like homosexuality, like some of the other moral issues that we face today?
Or is it just unwilling to do so?
It's not willing to do so because half of the people there in the Vatican are queer.
And they have not handled the horrible situation in the church.
In fact, they have fostered it because, as I say, they are trying to destroy the church.
So that's the opening question in our interview with this particular interview with Hutton Gibson, who became a close friend of ours here at TPC, both on and off the air.
And I'll tell you a little bit more about that in a second.
But this is Hutton Gibson, the father of Academy Award-winning actor and director Mel Gibson, Keith.
Well, one thing's for certain, he sure doesn't pussyfoot around the issues.
He will call a spade a dirty shovel, as my wife's grandfather used to say.
Let's talk to him about the long march through the institutions.
This is something nearly a coin that you a term that you coined, Keith.
Let's hear his take on that.
You know, we've seen Bill and Hutton this long march through the institutions as the institutions that our people founded, that Christians founded, have begun to fall and be subverted one after the other, whether it's academia, the media, government.
But now, you know, Hutton, as we've said so many times on this program, as a child, I was always maintained faith that the church would be our bedrock.
That would be the one institution that would not fall to subversion.
But unfortunately, that's not been the case, as you've well documented.
What really precipitated this fall?
And is there any hope that you have for a reclamation of the church?
Well, it's very difficult to see any light.
It came out in the open with Vatican II.
It was underground for quite some time before that.
We almost lost the ball in 1903.
They had a horrible enemy of the church, Cardinal Rampola, almost elected Pope.
But the Austrian emperor vetoed him in his capacity of Holy Roman Emperor.
And next thing you know, we had a war and no more Austrian emperor.
So there was nobody to veto John 23.
Well, that was an interesting set of circumstances.
The one sovereign, the one monarch who could have vetoed the rise of a pope or the seating of a pope, that monarchy was utterly obliterated during World War I. Interesting coincidence there.
Yeah, it was quite a coincidence.
All right, so now he's getting into history, and I will tell you this.
Off the air, I would talk to Hutton.
We would talk on the phone, and he would get into aspects of history that you wouldn't believe.
He was so well-versed, so knowledgeable, such a guy.
And you have to understand, and people have seen some of the comments Mel Gibson has made over the years, that this upbringing would have rubbed off on him to an extent.
And Mel Gibson always defended his father.
In a 2020 interview with Diane Sawyer, she tried to ask about some of Hutton's controversial comments politically.
And he just said, I'm not going to go there, Diane.
I'm not going to denounce my father.
Exactly.
And God bless him for that.
But Wattson got it.
Hutton got it.
Have you ever heard anyone else on a TV or radio show that has brought up, for example, that 1903 Papal Convention and what happened and what was at stake?
Exactly.
Exactly, Keith.
This is something that TPC has been uniquely able to do is to bring in, of course, all the voices you want to hear from our side.
That's what we're here for.
But I think we have had a unique ability as an AM radio entity to bring in celebrities and elected officials, former elected officials, current elected officials, especially in Europe, people like Hutton Gibson.
And we've been able to do that because people look at us and they hear us and they say, you know what, these are guys that I trust.
These are people who are dealing honestly.
They're brokering in an honest conversation, and we're likable and we're sincere.
And we've been able to talk to these people because we want to have a sincere conversation with them.
And we've been able to foster friendships and collaborative efforts with them.
See, groups like the SPLC want to pretend that we're a bunch of knuckle-dragging hicks or something, but who else talks about topics like that 1903 Papal Conclave?
Well, here is the million-dollar question or the million-dollar comment.
This says one minute, actually a 55-second clip we're about to play that led to we're going to skip all the breaks this hour, but this led to millions of dollars of attack pieces from Hollywood.
Here it is.
Do you think Benedict is a Freemason himself?
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.
So now I'm going to ask you a very controversial question.
Do you think that Benedict is homosexual in your opinion?
I certainly do.
Oh, really?
Why else would he put up with this?
He was in charge of stamping it out.
And he did nothing.
He just kept quiet.
Keep things quiet.
Don't do anything.
We don't want to disturb anybody.
So then when it breaks out, which it had to eventually, now he's changing his tune here, there, and everywhere.
He's suddenly going to bring the mask back, and he's going to get behind the thing he always scorned before, that Fatima devotion and stuff like that.
He's a slippery character.
So that one, that clip actually got played.
That segment of the show actually got played on Jimmy Kimmel Live.
It was his opening monologue.
He was mocking Hutton for saying that.
But what did he say that wasn't true, or at least wasn't an honest opinion?
And Perez Hilton, TMZ, big article in TMZ.
As I said, this was the only interview I think I've ever done that I saw.
They were shocked, shocked to learn that Benedict was homosexual.
Well, it wasn't that.
Or that they, you know, somebody actually had the courage to address.
It wasn't anything to do with any of that.
It was the fact that Mel Gibson's father was saying the word queer and this, and they tried to attack Mel Gibson.
If Hutton wasn't Mel's father, none of this was, they wouldn't have cared two hoots in hell.
No, that, yeah, of course.
I mean, and he's worthy of coverage in his own right as a scholar and as a commentator.
We actually, well, I'll tell you some behind-the-scenes stories about Hutton in a moment, but yeah, I mean, it was because of his son that the media was so interested, and it was just everywhere.
It was the late-night so-called combination.
The definition of Mel Gibson was first and foremost on the media's mind at that time.
Yes, all of that, but what he said, you know, certainly wasn't palpably untrue.
And he's entitled to his own opinion.
And yeah, and he backed it up.
But let's go now to widespread corruption and hear what he has to say.
I don't understand why, being in charge of it, he must certainly have known that there would be an outbreak of reports of these terrible instances of pedophilia and pederasty at some point.
Did he really think that cover-up?
That's what I've said before.
He doesn't care.
He doesn't care.
He wants to destroy the church.
He and his whole mob, they're out to kill the Catholic Church.
Mr. Gibson, what other job of that?
What other leaders in the church do you think are responsible or are going along with Pope Benedict on this neglect or this cover-up?
It would be hard to find some that aren't.
So, again, I think that this is an interview.
We're doing this once every month in our 20th anniversary year.
I thought, tell me why, Keith, I thought this would be a good interview to pair with the live Jim Dowson interview that we had in the first hour.
Because it just documents what Jim said about the decline and fall of Christianity.
You know, the Pope and the Catholic Church and the Vatican, the papacy is at the heart of darkness.
They're at the core of the rot.
And, you know, if your Protestant church is varying into leftism and leaving the church and traditional teachings of Jesus behind, well, you know, look, the old establishment Roman Catholic Church is leading the pack.
So again, I certainly remembered this interview for many reasons.
This is all the way back in 2010 now.
This is 14 years ago.
A lot of people have never heard any of this interview before, if you're a listener that came on since then.
But I went back for preparation of this anniversary or this retrospective series and listened to it again in its entirety.
And I forgot how good it was.
The media had pared it all down to Mel Gibson's father used the word queer in a radio interview.
That was the whole scandal, you know, supposed scandal.
But it was a lot more to it than that.
And it was quite a good and insightful and introspective interview coming from a member of the Catholic Church, a Catholic, a cradle Catholic.
And we'll listen to this part right now talking about the goals of the church.
What is the objective of the Catholic Church as it now exists?
What does the Catholic Church strive to achieve in the next, let's say, 20 years?
Complete extinction.
Of itself?
Of itself.
Yes, the people in charge are not Catholic.
They have no concept of morals.
They have no concept of doctrine.
They are out to serve all the great unity that's supposed to come about, a one-world government, a one-world church, probably because they found out that one-world atheism wouldn't work.
And that's the situation.
We cannot expect anything out of that bunch in Rome or any of its affiliates that is going to benefit us.
So Bill Roland asked the question, Keith, what is the goal of the Catholic Church?
And Hutton Gibson responded, extinction.
Extinction of itself.
Well, extinction of the particularity, for example, that denomination of Christianity.
They want every knee to bow to one world government.
One world government is still active and influencing things today.
What do you think that the Ukraine war is about?
Making sure that the Russians don't again appear as a superpower to derail the prospects that the neocons want being Jewish for one world government.
Same thing for China.
They want America to be the hegemon, and when America becomes the one world government hegemon, guess what?
We'll find out that the Jews are in charge of it.
Now, we're going to ask Cutton Gibson in this clip his thoughts on what's going on in the seminaries.
And this again gets back to the need for muscular, masculine Christians and Christian leadership provided by the likes of Pastor Brett Bacchati, our good friend, on with us every Easter and Christmas and then some.
And Reverend Jim Dowson, from one side of the pond to the other.
This is why we have people like them.
We have them toiling in the vineyards all this time.
So we asked Cutton Gibson here, who was a Catholic scholar par excellence, and we asked him his thoughts on what's going on in the seminaries.
Take a listen to this.
You hit on something right there that certainly resonates with me as Bill and I see here in the South all the time in the Protestant denominations.
What they are cranking out of these seminaries is in and of itself an abomination.
And you're right.
Without strong leadership in these positions of power, whether it be a pastor at some of these Protestant churches or priests in the Catholic masses, without them fulfilling their duties as good shepherds, well, obviously the congregation is going to go astray.
And I don't know, Bill, I mean, your guess is as good as mine, how many Protestant churches now are still in existence that are taking strong biblical stands on some of these, let's just say, politically incorrect issues.
And Hutton, you could certainly tell us, I guess, your prediction.
I mean, how many Catholic churches in operation today in this country would you say are still giving the flock their biblically accurate interpretations of scriptures?
How many strong Catholic churches do we have today?
Well, we have a few traditionals, but as far as the main church goes, what passes for the Catholic Church, the official, it's way less than 1%.
Yeah.
Yeah, see, I mean, Bill, what would you say on the Protestant side, percentage-wise?
How many churches would you walk into?
I don't know about them.
I know a few Protestants, preachers, and so on that are very forward in what they have to say politically and religiously.
They're good men.
There are a few.
There are a few, but I'll tell you, certainly not to the level that there should be.
All right, so we just asked Hutton Gibson how many faithful Catholic churches exist today.
He said far less than 1%.
That is why I think, Keith, we wanted to showcase Reverend Dowson tonight why we love Brett McAtee, Pastor McAtee.
This is a Christian program.
It's one of our foundational pillars.
We are pro-South.
We are pro-Christ.
We are pro-white.
And we don't think that any of those, any of that tripod contradicts the other.
Fascinating conversation with this man.
Well, what it shows is it supports what we've been saying here for years, which is that Christianity is more than just a mixed bag.
It is basically predominantly on the side of the enemies of Christianity now.
The established church is.
As Christians, we admit that for our non-believing brethren.
Basically, if you want to find true Christianity, you need to look between the covers of the King James Bible, in our opinion.
Hutton Gibson might say the Vulgate or something else, but nonetheless, the old-time religion is in the old-time Bibles.
Any of these new Bibles, if your church is trying to get you to read and believe scripture according to the Good News Bible or the modern standard version or something like this, then you're being led astray.
We talked to Hutton Gibson about heroes in this next clip.
This is what he has to say.
Mr. Gibson, let me ask you: who are your heroes?
Who in the Catholic Church, among priests, laymen, leaders, whoever, which members of the church, some prominent names, are doing the right thing?
Who are the reformers in the Catholic Church who are throwing themselves against this mighty hierarchy, against this mighty force, and trying to bring the Catholic Church back into its proper role?
Well, I hate to put them under fire or call attention to them.
There is one, though, I will mention, but because he's dead a few years, that's Father Oswald Baker in Downham Market in Norfolk, England.
And he did just what they all should have done.
He stood right in his parish and said, this is where I was put, and you're not going to get me out of here.
Please pardon the intrusion.
So this is a part where we have to take a quick break in that particular live broadcast.
But Keith, look, are you enjoying this?
Are you enjoying hearing this?
I mean, is this something that we're just.
Yeah, I'm absolutely enjoying it.
One, I'm enjoying it.
And why should others enjoy it?
Hutton Gibson is so obviously a sharp mind.
You talk about he's almost in his 90s on Joe Brown.
He had him on right then.
And secondly, it just shows that the more things change, the more they stay the same.
We just are in the same boat, although even more churches, I think at the time that you did that Hutton Gibson interview 10 is when this came out.
The Southern Baptists weren't as far along as they are now, but then that was before the coming of Russell Moore and people like that.
Yes, that's true.
That's true.
It did get worse in the Southern Baptist Convention after that, but it was bad enough then.
But see, the momentum is all going the other direction.
We've got to, with people like Dowson and McCatey and others, we've got to push the momentum in our favor.
We've got to stop the destruction of Christianity is basically what it's coming down to.
They're destroying the churches.
If they destroy the churches, they'll be destroying Christianity for the vast majority of people.
Look, I mean, what are we doing here with TPC?
What is our accomplishment?
Have we influenced politics?
Yeah, I think we have.
I think, obviously, we have.
I think we've been influencers and we've advanced the narrative, and other people have picked up on us.
I mean, a lot of people have talked about us, including Rush Limbaugh right here.
It always amazes me that every Democrat has some tie-in to Martin Luther King or Bobby Kennedy or JFK or Sirhan Sirha.
You take your pick.
They have a tie-in to John Lewis.
They may have a tie-in of Bull Connor.
They may have a tie-in to James Edwards.
I get you.
We'll be right back.
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A House Democrat who condemned Vice President Kamala Harris on the border issue has now endorsed her bid for the Oval Office.
We have more on that surprising story from correspondent Bernie Bennett.
Representative Don Davis, a Central North Carolina Democrat who often breaks with his party, endorsed Kamala Harris's presidential bid on Friday, one day after he joined five Democrats in condemning her handling of the southern border.
Davis had backed the GOP effort to criticize the vice president's handling of the border on Thursday.
He said in the statement, quote, the stakes of this presidential election are incredibly high with far-reaching implications.
Adding, quote, at the same time, the administration and Congress must address the concerns of the southern border.
Additionally, he took the additional step of endorsing a vice presidential pick for Harris, North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper.
Davis is a first-term lawmaker representing a competitive seat in Northern North Carolina.
Bernie Bennett reporting.
Breaking news and analysis at townhall.com.
You might call it a test census, and it's on the way.
Six places in the South and West will host practice runs for the next U.S. headcount in 2030, which helps determine political power and the distribution of federal funds.
Residents of West Texas, tribal lands in Arizona, Colorado Springs, Colorado, Western North Carolina, Spartanburg, South Carolina, and Huntsville, Alabama will be asked to fill out practice census forms in the spring of 2026.
Officials hope the test will ensure in 2030 they count the people missed out in the 2020 census.
John Scott reported.
Two U.S. Senators calling on the Federal Trade Commission to investigate automakers selling customers' driving data to brokers who package it, then sell it to insurance companies.
They claim GM, Hyundai, and Honda are sharing data such as sudden breaking and acceleration.
More on these stories at townhall.com.
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And we're back.
Pairing this interview with Hutton Gibson tonight as part of our retrospective series, hearing both the voices of Hutton Gibson and Bill Rowland, who are undoubtedly united tonight in heaven.
Keith, you were mentioning during the last break that meant something to you.
The voices of clarity, of good sense, and of, you know, sincere concern for our people, our nation, our faith.
That's what you're getting from Bill Rowland and from Hunt and Gibson and from the young James Edwards on this show.
I mean, on that replay that we're doing.
And really, you see that the issues really haven't changed that much between 2010 and today.
It's the same stuff.
We're still fighting the same battle.
Basically, do you want the old America that we had or the brave new world of the left?
And the brave new world of the left is like putting you on a spaceship, sending you to the moon, then it lands and you say there's no way to sustain human life here.
That's about what we're going to find out if the Democrats win this upcoming election.
Well, we have had 20 years and we have put our best foot forward every step of the way.
And going back, this is just such a wonderful 20th anniversary way to look back is to go back to some of these interviews that people have never heard before.
I mean, you know, a lot of listeners tuned in for the first time post-2010.
But this was a big one for us.
And again, what's our accomplishment?
I was asking that question before the break.
We've made a lot of news.
That's not the accomplishment.
That Rushland Ball clip was comical.
But have we influenced politics?
Yeah, I think we have.
I think we've influenced influencers.
We've certainly made a name for ourselves, but that's not what it's about.
What it's about is this.
We have built a community.
We have built a community, a family of listeners that will fight together and that will stand together, come what may.
And it's been our guests.
It's been the people who dutifully contribute to the program and tune in every Saturday night.
But I'll tell you this about Hutton Gibson.
I got to know him pretty well off the air.
And he was such a smart and insightful guy.
We would talk on the phone for a long time.
And I said, Hutton, you know, is there any way we can get one of your books?
Because he wrote a couple of books.
Could we do that for a fundraising incentive?
He said, yeah, I'll sign them all for you.
How many do you need?
And I said, you know, how much do you need for them?
I'll give them to you.
He shipped me a pallet of them, signed and for free.
He was that kind of guy.
Actually, this is something that may surprise people.
Hutton was, of course, living in California.
And I got him hooked up with Kevin McDonald.
Him and Kevin McDonald would go out to dinner together.
Wonderful.
So it was just, and he was on my, we sent Christmas cards up until the time of his passing.
But to hear Bill Rowland as an interviewer in this particular interview means so much to me.
He was the best among us.
He was really an incredible talent.
And, you know, just listen to this show if you don't believe that.
And pairing his talent with Hutton's esoteric knowledge of the Catholic Church, it was just a dynamite interview that Hollywood couldn't avoid.
I mean, and it was everywhere.
This interview that you're hearing these excerpts from, TMZ latched onto it, radar online, Perez, Hilton, it made local news from Salt Lake City to the New York Post, Australia, Canada, you name it.
Entertainment Tonight did a segment on it.
Jimmy Kimmel did, you know, mocked it at supermarket tabloids.
But you know what happened?
You know what didn't happen?
Hutton Gibson never backed down from it.
He released a public statement in response to all of the media attention.
You know what he said?
Here's what he said.
I participated in the broadcast of the political cesspool radio program.
Asked whether I thought Pope Benedict is a homosexual, I responded, I certainly do.
I was amazed at the reaction in the press.
It must have been a slow news day, so hardly an uncommon opinion ballooned into headlines.
None of the media reacted much to what I developed in the rest of the hour, to the fact that the Catholic Church has been infiltrated from the top by organized enemies bent on total destruction.
Tolerance is the last virtue of a depraved society.
When an immoral society has blatantly and proudly violated all of the commandments, it insists upon one last virtue, tolerance for its immorality.
It will not tolerate condemnation of its perversions.
It creates a whole new world in which only the intolerant critic of intolerable evil is evil.
And I think that quote right there and his response to the press matches that of A.W. Tozer.
It is an all-time reaction.
Well, I think it was also some old Roman like Eschelis or somebody that said something very similar that the last virtue of a depraved or a decadent society is tolerance.
You know, that's timeless wisdom.
And it's just as important and as true today as it was back in the time of Rome.
And I'll tell you this about Hutton Gibson.
He posted the entire interview to his website.
And if you go, his website is gone now because he's gone.
But if you go to YouTube, if you go to YouTube and you type in Hutton Gibson, the political cesspool, you'll still find it.
He was proud of these interviews.
He was proud of us, and we were proud of him.
And he never backed down, and we never will back down.
Well, you know, I have to give credit to Rush Limbaugh.
He saw through what was going on there, trying to turn anybody that talked about the type of topics that you heard regarding Hutton Gibson's interview as being monsters from outer space, the new Hitler, the new Stalin, or something like this.
And that's why he gave us that list of things and said this name, this name, this name, and then, or that you have some association with James Edwards.
Well, James Edward, they've tried to turn you into a bogeyman or a boogeyman, but they couldn't do it because you're such a likable guy.
Well, Hutton liked me.
Hutton liked me and all these other people we've showcased in this series.
Nobody that listens to you with half an open mind is going to like you.
Well, that's a part of our charm here.
We've fooled them all, haven't we?
I suppose.
Let's go to this clip.
It's a little bit of an extended clip talking about communism in the church.
And then we're going to ask Hutton Gibson his talk, his opinion on the quote-unquote fascist Francisco Franco.
Listen to this.
James, Mr. Gibson, this whole involvement of homosexuals in the Catholic Church is appalling.
But let me ask you something.
How far back does this hidden cell or this secret cell of homosexuals go in the church?
How long have homosexuals had this kind of influence over the Catholic Church?
I think Vatican II, at least, I was in touch with a lady who worked in Rome in one of the congregations.
She was the German bishop's representative in the Congregation for the Laity.
And she was in Rome 25 years, and she knew all of them.
All the people, cardinals, all the bishops, all the monsignors, and every flunky there was.
And she said that Vatican II got by with its criminal activity because every one of those people there was subject to the worst kind of blackmail.
Yep.
And she had a word for them.
It sounds worse in Italian than it does in English.
Bibiaki.
Cowards.
Well, that means that there was obviously such a large number of those homosexuals that they could be blackmailed.
Who was doing the blackmailing?
Who would have blackmailed them within the church or without the church to get certain things to allow certain things to happen that should have been condemned by the church itself?
The people who got the council together in the first place, started it up, and who laid the groundwork for it.
We've had a lot of this.
I think a great deal of it came from that time when Joseph Stalin promulgated his idea of infiltrating the seminaries.
And if you remember Bella Dodd, who testified before a House committee that she herself had placed 1,100 communists in the Catholic seminaries, as one woman in one country, and this was worldwide.
That's an amazing number.
Those people would stay.
Ordinarily, if you start with a class of 100, at the beginning of high school, going through to the priesthood, you're going to get 10 out of them that become priests.
They'll drop out along the way for one reason or another.
Some of it's scholastic.
Some of it's, well, they see a girl somewhere or something like that.
But these people stay there and they use all the communist tactics.
They promote each other.
They break things down into small groups and discuss things.
And what comes out of the discussion goes to the main thing.
But that's where they bury the traditional people.
They get to say something, but they're in a small group.
And that group is reported by somebody who belongs to the people who call the Dargone Conference or Council or whatever it is.
And so what he says never makes the general discussion.
And if it would, there are so many.
See, I maintain that we have no Pope, and one of the proofs of it is that we have no unity.
The Pope is a standard of unity.
Even among the traditional people, there is no unity.
So many of them can't see the point that we have no Pope.
The logic is gone.
Among the priests who have been accused or, in fact, have been condemned as homosexuals or child molesters or whatever their crime, what would you say their political views outside of their Catholic priesthood?
What do you think their political views were?
Were many of these, in fact, the leftists who came out of these seminaries who were part of this infiltration?
I think a good many of them were.
Yes, I would say is that they came in to destroy.
And the destruction sometimes includes sacrificing your own reputation.
They don't care.
So do you believe that perhaps Pope Benedict's turning a blind eye to what was going on in the church was as much a part of his political belief as his own, perhaps, let's say, frailty, human frailty in terms of his sexuality?
Do you think he is also, let's say, one of the hidden communists in the Catholic Church?
Well, you can't discount it.
This has been going on since 1928.
That's a long time.
And yet, if I'm not mistaken, the Catholic Church played a pretty significant role in bringing down the Republican government in Spain that was very much anti-religious and very much part of an anarchist and communist regime.
That seems to be a case in point where the Catholics did, in fact, exhibit a significant amount of political influence and moral influence over a country.
And that brings me to the question of what do you think of Francisco Franco in that case?
Was he a hero of the Catholic Church?
He was a hero.
Whether a hero to Spain or the Catholic Church, he was a hero.
Let me tell you this, folks.
If you ask yourself the question, why has nobody else on the pro-white right got an interview like this?
The answer is nobody else could.
That is something unique to TPC.
We have always had a unique ability to foster these sorts of relationships.
They were all sincere, all from the heart, not that we wanted to get somebody for the sake of getting somebody who could get us attention.
I have never, ever welcomed attention for the sake of attention's sake.
I have always turned down interviews that I thought were taking advantage of our cause.
I've turned down many more interviews than I've ever given.
This was a heart that was near to ours, and I am so thankful for having known Hutton Gibson.
And I'll tell you about Hutton Gibson.
You know, he spoke at some of the conferences organized by Willis Carto.
He was a fellow traveler.
When I was at the Reform Party convention in 2000, there was a delegate from the California delegation who went to the church that Mel and his father, Hutton, went to.
He said they were the nicest, most sincere guys you would ever meet.
And I believe it.
I didn't know the son, but I knew the father.
He was a great man.
You're hearing it right here.
No one hears much about Mel Gibson these days, but the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.
And I think that he probably endorses almost everything that his father said, at least if he were asked about that privately with somebody that he felt that he could trust.
Let me tell you, what we have on, for example, Francisco Franco, I defy you to ask any Democrat that holds a position of power or authority locally, statewide, or nationally, about Francisco Franco.
They probably wouldn't even know who he was.
Well, right.
And if they did, they'd have nothing good to say about him.
They would lump him in with Adolf Hitler and Mussolini.
And the thing is, all of those people have been lied about.
The truth comes out in things like the Barnes Review and in the American Free Press.
Read those sources.
Who Hutton was associated with?
Yeah, see, Hutton knew what the truth was, and he wasn't afraid to speak it.
And that is a rare, rare quality, not only back then, but today as well.
We're running out of time.
Let's dig in a little bit deeper to Franco, the Franco question.
We asked more about it.
Again, I like discussing Franco because to me, I think that he was a hero both of Spain and really of Christendom in so many ways.
But what did he do in Spain, for instance, that you think would be useful in other countries in terms of doing away with and combating some of these problems we have in both church and state?
Well, he did it by simply taking over the country.
That's all you want to do.
Of course, I don't think we have anybody of Franco's leadership in this country, especially if anywhere in the West.
But certainly he did rally the church, and the church, of course, rallied behind him in doing away with these abominations and horrors in Spain.
Do you think it could come to that into this country?
Do you believe that we could come to the point where the military and the church, that is the truly Christian church, would stand together and fight what's going on in terms of the homosexuals, in terms of the neo-Bolsheviks, in terms of the political socialism and socialistic tendencies that are now going to drive us into bankruptcy?
Well, if they don't get together somehow and do something, we're going down the troops.
Well, do you think that we have a government that's out to kill us, too?
Same as the church has.
You know, yeah, you're never going to have another show like this.
There's never going to be anybody that can do what we have done through God's grace and the support of this audience.
These are real sincere, genuine connections that we have made with a lot of people that would never give the time of day to any of our folks.
We did it, and we did it organically, and I'm so proud of it.
20 years, these are the interviews that we look back on as part of this series that I am so proud of because this was a man that I am proud to have known.
Well, we talk about taking we do the job that American journalists won't do, and we've done it for over 20 years now.
And because of this, there is a record.
I don't know how much influence we've actually had, but we have at the very least created a record of the resistance to the leftist takeover of the West.
And I think we've had a great influence.
I think we've, for example, we're now hearing both major parties address topics that they would never have addressed back in 2010.
We are running out of time, and I'm not going to have the time to play all the clips I wanted to play tonight.
Let's talk about fighting Christianity, and let's see what this clip has to offer.
At some point, Christianity is going to have to make itself known in this country and take a stand.
Do you see this happening through the traditional church, the traditional church you belong to?
Do you think that there's going to be an outcry from this church or from any church to try to stop what's going on?
Well, I don't know.
The numbers are not reversed, that's sure.
Because there are so few of us, traditionalists left.
That's one of my arguments when they say the great apostasy ends in the future.
I say, well, there's not enough of us left to cut this of apostasy.
So we don't have any, what would you call it, a web or a plot or anything of the sort?
Well, you know, Hutton, I think you're obviously right about that, but the one thing that I cling to, as thin as it is, is the fact that I think that the task facing us is no more daunting than the task that faced those who've subverted us.
I think what one man can do, perhaps with the help of God, another can do, we can do.
And that is something that motivates me to continue my efforts, and I'm sure yours too.
I mean, I don't think that all hope is lost, as bleak as the day is.
Ladies and gentlemen, so that's something that we always cling to here.
Hope springs eternal.
While we breathe, we hope, do we not, Keith?
We absolutely do, and we certainly do.
And we'll continue fighting the good fight until there's no fight left in us.
All right, so let's get back to this.
What can we do?
We asked the question to Hutton Gibson, father of Mel Gibson.
This is what he had to say.
We're running out of time.
I see exactly the point that you've repeated tonight, and I agree with it wholeheartedly.
The entire purpose of those who have infiltrated the church is the same purpose as those who have infiltrated all of our other institutions.
That is to destroy it.
So they're not just mismanaging this out of ignorance.
They are following a set plan to destroy the influence of the church.
And unless we'd ride to the sound of the guns and stop them, that will be exactly what happens.
And so that leads me into a question that I wanted to be sure to get your opinion on tonight.
Undoubtedly, tonight, as we have a worldwide audience, there are people tuned in this evening, traditional Catholics or Catholics who perhaps want to know how they can be part, a better part of the solution, rather than either part of the problem or just kind of there in neutral.
To them, Hutton, what would you say?
What is the prescription?
How can people go to their churches this Sunday and become a proactive force?
What would you tell them to do?
What can they do?
Boycott the collection first.
Boycott the tithe.
The collection.
The collection.
Don't give him any money.
Don't support them in any way.
Say, maybe you're going to get some support when you do something for us.
That's the key.
That's the key right there.
And that's why we need to be supporting people like Jim Dowson, who was on in the first hour tonight with ztemplarchurch.com.
Check it out.
Support it.
Well, that's what we've always said.
The only sound that a liberal truly fears is the sound of a closing purse, the click of a closing purse.
I had two more clips I wanted to play tonight: parting shots with Hutton Gibson, a recap of our conversation with him.
I had a couple of clips that I had queued up, but we're not going to have time to get to them.
But God Almighty, we've done a lot.
It's never been less than interesting here on TPC, folks.
Nobody's done it quite like us.
For better or worse, richer or poorer, mostly poor.
But if you can support us, we would appreciate it.
And listen, you're not going to win.
We're going to pull the money of the bad guys and replenish the coffers of the good.
You're not going to win unless you can pull some of the elites over to your side.
There's no doubt about that.
And when we have former congressmen, former Secret Service agents, the fathers of Hollywood Scions, and all of the different people we've showcased there in our retrospective series, we have built, it's not just like we interviewed them.
All of these cases, in all of these cases, except for Donald Trump Jr., I think it was lasting cooperative collaboration.
And I'm proud of that.
I'm proud of our legacy here.
We are building a legacy.
After 20 years, I think we've left one, but it's still building.
Listen, folks, it is tough.
It is tough in this economy.
The cost of everything have gone up.
I cannot, I don't know what else to say.
Just like you posted today.
We need your support, or we're not going to make it.
We just lost one of our principal assets, V-DAR.
V-DAR is over.
Nothing is protecting any of us.
Any of the people we feature on this program.
We protect us, our people, and, for example, like the Republican Party.
The working class done comparable with the Hollywood class.
We've got to have your support.
We're not going to be there, and that's just all there is to it.
If you support this show, if you appreciate the things we've done that are unique, support us.
You've got to do it by mail because we've been deplatformed everywhere.
But for Keith Alexander, Brad Griffin, Jim Dowson, and Hutton Gibson, who looks down at us from heaven tonight.