June 24, 2023 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
Welcome back, everybody, to the second hour of tonight's live broadcast of TPC.
I'm James Edwards this Saturday, June the 24th.
And as we've mentioned earlier, we're currently in the middle of a two-week mini-series during which we're showcasing select individuals who either attended or addressed a variety of dissident conferences that have bloomed throughout this glorious summer.
You just heard from Mark Weber, who shared a tale of his recent trip to not just Estonia, but also to the Netherlands, Belgium, and Austria.
But that's not all.
Program favorite Roger Devlin, author of Sexual Utopia and Power, The Feminist Revolt Against Civilization.
He's also back with us tonight and back with us right now to share details about his own recently completed multi-nation speaking tour of Europe.
And as we go from one esteemed scholar to the next, Roger, welcome back to TPC.
Thank you.
Thank you, James.
Glad to be here.
Now, I've got to tell you, folks, Roger is – yeah, go ahead.
Go ahead, Roger.
I was a month in Europe.
I spoke.
I was at the Talon conference with Mark Weber.
I was in Stockholm, and I was at a private countercurrence gathering with some tourism in between.
So I got a lot to talk about with you.
Well, we're going to try to get to as much of it as we can.
We couldn't get to enough of it with Mark in the first hour.
I really wanted to focus a little bit more.
We talked a little bit, of course, about his conference in Estonia, the Skanza Forum in Estonia, where he spoke.
But I wanted to talk a little bit more about his visits to the Netherlands, Belgium, and Austria, the conversations with the writers and political figures and activists that he met in those countries.
But time did not permit.
And so we'll get to as much as we can with the time we've got with you, my friend.
But I got to tell you, folks, before we start with Roger, Roger is a rock star.
Now, I'm not kidding you when I say that.
You can find Mark Weber's speech that he gave at the Talon conference for free.
And you can certainly listen to TPC for free.
But if you want to hear Roger's speech, you've got to pay $5 at Odyssey.
And that's not what Roger's doing.
That's just because that's just the nature of his celebrity.
Somebody put it on Odyssey with a $5 charge to listen.
I understand that a free version is going to come out in the next couple of weeks.
All the conference videos will be made free eventually by the conference organizer, but only a few are out so far.
I kid you.
I kid you, my friend.
But coming up, we actually did post Mark's speech to thepoliticalspool.org back a couple of days ago, so check that out at the same event that Roger is about to give us some details about.
And then Roger's speech in Stockholm, there is a transcript of the speech that he gave there, which will be up on our website in a couple of days.
So check it out.
It'll compliment his appearance tonight.
But first, let's go back to Estonia, Roger.
That was the first stop on your tour as well.
Let's talk about what you talked about.
Yes.
Well, some highlights for me were getting to meet Ed Dutton.
Some of your listeners must know about him.
He's got a wonderful site called The Jolly Heretic.
He's an Englishman who lives in Finland.
And if you want to keep up with the cutting edge of the science of human diversity, he's a really good guy to follow.
I reviewed several of his books, but I got to meet him in person, as Mark did, too, for the first time in Tallinn.
Ruben Kalop, who has spoken at American Renaissance in person once and by video link once, was also there.
He was our Estonian host, the one local speaker.
And he gave a wonderful talk, too.
And I was privileged to spend a couple of days with Ruben in southern Estonia after the conference, which was a very interesting experience.
He knows the history of his country deeply and thoroughly.
And he was taking me to archaeological sites, places where medieval kings of Estonia used to rule from.
And I got to visit Tartu, the university city, which is the university.
Estonia's major university is the oldest European university that far north in Europe.
I think it goes back to the 15th century.
It was a wonderful, that was a wonderful place to visit.
I toured around southern Estonia.
Southern Estonia is an interesting region.
It actually has its own language.
That's something not many Americans know.
But it has its own language related to but distinct from standard Estonian.
It's a very conservative region.
Ruben's conservative political party gets its strongest support from southern Estonia.
So I was delighted to be able to spend over a week in that region as well as seeing the capital Tallinn.
I was looking at photos from both Tallinn, as I was mentioning with Mark in the previous hour, just this wonderful medieval city that still holds all of that power.
And the hotel that this Scansiform was at really just fit in with the whole aesthetic.
And then Cyan with Countercurrents was sending me some pictures of the local scenery there at where the Countercurrents Conference was held, which we'll talk about in a moment.
We talked about it last week with one of its participants, so we'll talk about it with you as well.
But just looking at these pictures, Roger, the whole idea of blood and soil is very real.
I mean, we are here to fight for our people and our land.
And seeing some of these beautiful, beautiful architecture and scenery and the mountains and the stone.
There was just something about that.
I said to Cyan, I said, Cyan, these pictures remind us of what we're fighting for.
I mean, did you get a feel of that?
I mean, you're an American.
I'm an American.
Mark's an American.
You go from here to there.
When you go over there, do you feel rejuvenated just by being?
Does it stir your ancestral memory?
Oh, sure.
The Estonians are a very ancient people.
They're actually mentioned by Tacitus back writing in the first century A.D.
And yet they never had their own state until after the First World War.
They'd always been dominated for a time by the Germans, for a time by the Swedes, and then for a long time by Imperial Russia before gaining their independence in 1920.
And then, of course, came the long Soviet occupation.
So they're very jealous of their independence.
And, you know, I can, as a patriot myself, I can only wish them well.
About 30% of the population is Russian, but they don't, you know, they don't have any imperial designs on the street.
Let's talk about that.
Roger, if you don't mind.
And I have nothing.
I want to say this very clearly.
It seems as though most in our movement, I mean, at least here in the United States, seem to be sympathetic to the Russian side of the Russia-Ukraine Washington-NATO conflict.
And then I have nothing but the utmost respect for Ruben Caleb, who you just mentioned, who is an Estonian.
And not only that, he was a young man, very young guy who is a dynamic speaker, a wonderful representative for our cause.
And he has been elected to the Estonian parliament, and he sees it a very different way.
And that's interesting to me.
With Estonia being such a relatively new country and with it having a lot of Russian admixture, what do you think is going on there with vis-a-vis this?
Well, I think the situation is structural.
Russia is simply an enormous country.
It stretches across 13 time zones.
Estonia is very small.
I don't think the Estonian people have any hostility toward the Russian people as such.
And the Russians, you know, the Russians themselves living in Estonia are not typically chauvinistic or even necessarily Putin supporters.
But everybody there, it's understandable.
There's a psychology of a small country that's always been under the thumb of a much larger country.
And I think that's all that's really going on there.
The people are not anti-Russian.
You hear Russians spoken on the streets in Tallinn quite a bit.
It's normal.
People seem to get along more or less.
Well, I'm certainly anti-American as a southerner, so I can get that to some extent.
But I guess they have to understand that Putin's different than Stalin, right?
I mean, you know, this is definitely a new sheriff at Taliban.
Yes, he is.
Yes, he is.
Everybody in Estonia is very sympathetic toward the Ukrainian people, having suffered under Soviet domination.
They're quite sympathetic, not necessarily to the Ukrainian government, but to the Ukrainian people suffering this invasion.
And there are plenty of Ukrainian flags all around Estonia.
Interesting.
Very interesting.
I mean, it's fascinating to me.
And, you know, they have a different history.
We talk about this with Mark.
I can't relate to that.
And so I can't, I'm not passing judgment or saying that I'm right and they're wrong or they're right or whatever.
But it is interesting being so close to Russia and being such a new country.
But in any event.
Yes.
Let's get back quickly to the Skansiform there in Estonia.
Both you and Mark were there.
Jared would have been there.
I guess I should ask you.
I should have asked Mark this too.
Was there any trepidation?
Did any of you consider that maybe you might not get there?
No, I don't think anybody experienced any trouble except for Jared.
Some of our attendees were disappointed because some of them actually came mainly because they wanted to meet Jared Taylor.
He's that guy.
He's got over there.
He's that guy.
Very much.
But I mean, you cast a pretty big shadow, too, as does Mark.
I mean, y'all could have been nabbed.
Maybe not the average attendee, but you could have been turned away.
We were.
We were the American delegation.
And, of course, Frodie spoke, and we had an Italian speaker.
We had quite a variety.
Well, we've talked a little bit about what Estonia looks like, and especially that capital city.
Just give us a couple of minutes here, Roger, on the content of your speech there at the Skansa Forum.
And then we're going to move on to one of your next stops.
Well, again, as with Mark, it was a kind of a, I guess the theme was the darkness before the dawn.
I am hopeful in the long run for our people, but we've got a very, the saying that it's darkest before the dawn is not just an old cliché.
It really happens this way often.
Like a good historical analogy would be the worst persecution of the Christian church under the Roman Empire occurred in the years immediately preceding the conversion of Constantine.
The authorities saw the growing power of this church and they were worried and they thought, well, we've got to clamp down on it before it's too late.
And for several years they did, but it was too late and the church triumphed.
And I kind of have the feeling that our people ultimately will triumph, although things are likely to get worse in the short run.
I talked to attendees about the situation in America and how bad it is right now.
Sure.
Well, nobody has any illusions about the current trajectory and the trends as they exist right now.
You and I were talking about this about an hour before the show tonight.
You and I both spoke at the Countercurrents Conference last fall in Atlanta, and I'm very hopeful our people will have to suffer more.
That's something that I said in my address, and our people will have to go through a little bit more pain before they will become what they need to be.
But at the same time, as I mentioned with Mark, I mean, nobody could have foreseen the fall of the Soviet Union.
This is, again, a cliché.
It happened very gradually and then all at once, the Muslim occupation of Spain, and we could bring forth many, many more examples.
But this, I guess, just comes down to are you a glasses half full or glasses half empty type of person?
I am a happy warrior.
I do believe we're going to turn this around because it is a very disgenic, degenerate society, and that cannot endure, I don't think.
But this goes back to another, you know, is the darkest hour just before dawn or is the darkest hour just before the lights go out completely.
Right, right.
My talk can be read, by the way, on VDARE.
If you look back a few weeks, it was posted on VDARE, so people can read it, and they'll be able to see it for free in a couple of weeks, I think.
Well, so what was your overall ⁇ what was your final take on the conference in Stockholm?
It was a delightful conference.
You know, if any of your listeners get a chance, you know, it's very much worth coming to a Skansa forum if you get the chance.
There will be another one probably next year.
We don't know where it'll be yet that's under discussion, but it's worth the money and the time to get over there.
It's an amazing experience.
I've spoken at a couple of them.
I spoke at one in Stockholm a few years ago, and this was my second.
Frody Midjord's a great leader for our people in Europe, and what he's done there, both in media and with his events, is remarkable.
And Roger, this is actually something before we move on to sexual utopia in Stockholm.
Now, was Stockholm the second stop on your tour?
You went from Estonia to Sweden?
Yes, it was.
I only spent about three or four days there, but we had a wonderful event attended by about 50 people to hear me and two other speakers talk about feminism and the sexual revolution.
Feminism has been very powerful in Sweden.
It's maybe the most feminist country in the world.
So, you know, they have a lot of experience with that.
And my talk is up at Countercurrents, and I understand you're going to post it as well.
So I encourage people to take a look at what I had to say.
The book is doing very well.
Well, it has to be.
It has to be.
I mean, sexual utopia and power, which, look, Roger, I mean, you're a contributing editor to the Occidental Quarterly.
I mean, you have.
Yes.
You really are.
And I loved what somebody wrote in one of their reviews of Sexual Utopia and Power.
I wish I had it pulled up right now, but I'm paraphrasing, and I don't remember who it was, and I'm just stabbing at this.
But it just said that as an independent scholar, you are basically the holy grail.
I mean, you're the one that people would aspire to be in terms of an independent scholar who has risen up and created a name for himself and his signature issue, which I guess sexual utopia and power, Really, the Bible with regards to radical feminism and how sexual habits and hypergamy and so on and so forth affect our culture and society has really made a name for yourself.
When did the book originally come out?
The book came out in 2015.
The essays go back as far as I think 2005 or 6, 2006, the original essay, Sexual Utopia and Power was published.
And translations now exist in German and Finnish, as well as the new Swedish one.
So that's what's so interesting to me is that you started writing about this in the early mid-2000s.
The book gets published in 2015, and here we are now on June the 24th, 2023, and you're celebrating the Swedish translation of this book that was written eight years ago.
I mean, that is something to be celebrated, and that is quite remarkable.
Yes, yes, yes.
I'm very happy.
And good for you for that.
Well, I'm lauding you.
You know, all you have to do is just sit there and receive it.
But no, this is good because it is such an important topic.
So you give your talk in Estonia, and then from there, you do a little holiday, and then you're on to your next professional appearance in Sweden.
You're in Stockholm, which is this.
I mean, people, I don't think if you don't know much about Stockholm, it's really like an island.
We are Germany.
Yes, it is.
I was talking more about the geographical makeup.
Well, hey, before we go to the Swedish, it's a beautiful city, but the hotel where I was staying, they were having this drag show in the evening.
I didn't attend, but it was there.
There's a lot of that kind of stuff.
Well, you know, I went to the Donald Trump, the first, well, I guess the only Donald Trump inauguration.
He's run a couple of times, but the Donald Trump inauguration, Jared Taylor and I, I had press passes to the inauguration, and Jared was my plus one.
And it was the day after that that they had the pink hat protest or whatever that was.
So you never know what's going on in these Western nations.
But well, before we get to your talk about the newly minted and printed Swedish translation of your magnum opus, Sexual Utopia and Power, what would you say are the differences in culture and in attitudes?
Because again, what we're doing right now, folks, is sort of an inverse of our March Around the World series, where we have exclusively European guests or guests from Australia or abroad, Canada, outside of the United States during the month of March, march around the world.
This is sort of an inverse of that.
We're having American guests on last week and tonight that have been in Europe and are sharing their observations from these conferences.
But what would you say are the differences in attitudes and in trends and just your general observations on this trip and this trip alone from Estonia and Sweden?
Well, Sweden is, as I say, it is a very feminist country.
People are afraid to criticize feminism publicly in Sweden.
It's like, you know, it's just taken for granted that it's an entirely true and positive thing.
It's taken over the Swedish churches.
And it finds unusual expression in Swedish law and everything.
In my talk, I mentioned that in Sweden, they have a law that it's legal for a woman to work as a prostitute, but it's illegal for the man to hire her services.
Now, and I've talked about, you know, this does not make any sense.
When you want to stop a practice, you go after the supply side, like with drugs.
You don't go after the individual user so much.
You go after the dealers.
And in the case of a vice like prostitution, women are the supply.
So countries that are serious about getting rid of prostitution, they go after the prostitutes, not the customers.
But in Sweden, it's the other way around, which makes you think that they're not really interested in stopping prostitution.
They're more interested in simply punishing men.
And all the laws have this rather obvious anti-gill bias in Sweden.
Swedish women are also very heavily involved in bringing immigrants into the country.
They often take immigrants as boyfriends.
To a certain extent, the immigration and the refugee program is like a young boyfriend program for Swedish spinsters.
So I talked about that a little while.
It's like it's the cutting edge of gender maladaptive behavior in the West, is Sweden.
So I was particularly happy to see my book come out in a Swedish translation.
Well, who was the person or group or organization behind that?
It's called the Logikferlag, which means logic publishers.
They're a nationalist publisher, and they're very well run.
They publish a lot of other things.
They've been distributing my book in English in the past.
They distributed it in Sweden in English, and they just brought out this translation.
And they publish a lot of other wonderful titles, you know, like Estonia or any other country.
Sweden's got a lot of, has a very rich history that most Americans don't know much about.
And so they publish a lot in Swedish history and all kinds of stuff like that.
You know, the Swedish nationalism even has its own history, very different from our patriotic movements.
We're going to take a quick break, and we're back with the one and only Roger Devlin.
Right after this, we have covered his stop in Estonia.
Now we're talking about his stop in Stockholm, Sweden, this almost island city.
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Welcome back, everybody.
It's...
How can you call this work when you get to come in and talk to people like Mark Weber and Roger Devlin?
Two men, I'm honored to be able to call them friends, but two men that I have the utmost respect for their work and their character and the way that they go about their business.
And it's just a wonderful thing, 19 years on the radio doing it like this.
I mean, these are the people that I wanted to interview.
We could have done the traditional talk radio thing.
We could have read press releases from the GOP or Conservative Incorporated and talked to people who were all saying the same things, reading off the same script.
Or we could talk to people who are actually interesting, people who have gone a different path, people who have risked something, people who have contributed something.
And that's what we've done.
And for 19 years, you've made it possible, ladies and gentlemen.
And I thank you for that.
And we're talking about Roger Devlin's book.
I actually owe Roger a debt of gratitude here.
And I have thanked him privately.
Now I will thank him publicly for reviewing the book that I contributed the opening chapter to, The Honorable Calls of Free South.
And he wrote a review for American Renaissance that was quite obviously excellent.
I mean, it was something written by Roger Devlin, but I told Jared that I had contributed this opening chapter.
And then the next thing I know, there's a review by Roger Devlin.
I didn't even know that it had been assigned or that it was forthcoming.
And this is a book that has been reviewed by quite a few people, including Clyde Wilson, many reviewers from abroad, Remy Tremblay of Canada, Sasha Rossmuller of Germany, Dr. Tom Sunich of Croatia.
But Roger, your review of the book was very, very good.
And I appreciate you for taking the time to not only read it.
Thank you very much.
Sure, you can find that on the back pages, I guess, of American Renaissance still.
That was a delightful book.
I hope it has an influence.
Well, thank you for saying that.
It is done well on Amazon.
And I'm sure thanks to the assist from you, amongst others.
But I'll tell you, I only bring that up to say this.
I have never been a part of a book, my own book in 2010 or this book that has been translated.
Here we are now eight years after the original publication of Sexual Utopia and Power celebrating another translation of it.
Third translation, that's right.
Third translation.
I mean, that is some shelf life, pun intended.
And you write here at the close of your speech, which the transcript of which will be posted to thepoliticalspool.org this week.
It can be found at countercurrents.com already.
But you write that adaptive sexuality will return one way or another because it's nature's way.
But there are no guarantees that our own descendants will be the ones practicing it.
And I don't care very much what sexual or family practices will prevail in future Muslim Swedish state.
My concern is with my own people and civilization of which the Swedish people are a part.
So here you are in Sweden.
What, Roger, two questions?
Well, first of all, let me ask you this.
I'm going to ask you in a moment what gives us hope because that's sort of the theme of the night.
But what is it about your book and the topic that your book is addressing that has given it so much staying power?
Well, geez, I don't know.
I did write it in part.
I was inspired by what I saw as the weaknesses of the typical conservative movement treatment of feminism and the sexual revolution, which is mostly dominated by, oh, the male protective instinct, really.
I mean, there's sort of an unwritten rule that the blame for all these things has to go on men exclusively.
And so one of the things that makes my book different is I showed how the female sexual nature plays into the sexual revolution.
And it wasn't simply a matter of wicked men persuading foolish women to give them sex outside of marriage.
There's a specifically sexual female sexual revolution that can be seen in the writings of in Cosmo and the writings of Helen Gurley Brown and all that.
It's very different from the male view because men and women are so different.
And I wanted to make that clear to a male audience primarily, although I've discovered, I've been delightfully surprised how many women really seem to enjoy my book.
And there were lots of women in attendance at the Swedish events, you know, women who were active, like in trying to limit the damage of feminism in the Swedish church and in Swedish society.
When left unattended, I mean, it can go either way.
But do you believe that innately and naturally that women want to be put under authority?
And that may be what's drawing people.
Well, they want most of them.
I mean, that's like asking, you know, do children want to be put under authority?
Yes and no.
There's a side that wants to do just whatever they want to do.
That's part of human nature.
But they work best when women are, in the long run, happiest when they are embedded in a family and a community.
And as, for that matter, do men as well.
So, you know, yeah, I have said that.
I've said that publicly.
I mean, most men want to be led too, but that's a little bit different than the way women need to be led.
Right.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And yeah, as I said, adaptive sexuality, sexuality, the way it works, you know, strong families, it's going to make a return.
But we've got to make sure that it's our own people and that we don't get, you know, substituted out.
So we're working against the clock in places like Sweden.
We've got to put our own house in order at the same time as we protect our societies from mass immigration.
Before we go to your third appearance, your third speech on this tour in another European cabinet, let me ask you this before the time runs out on this segment.
And we asked this of Mark Weber, too.
I mean, we see the trends.
We see the trajectory.
What gives us hope?
Where can we invest some level of hope in right now in this dark hour?
Well, I got, I mean, as regards sexual issue, I got a lot of hope just from the amount of interest that I found in Sweden.
As I say, it's a country that's been hit very badly, worse than perhaps any other single Western country by the feminist revolution.
And we got a big crowd, and there were two other speakers, not just me, but it was like an all-day event.
We were talking about these problems and how to restore healthy courtship and marriage and family life.
And they were all with me.
You know, a lot of people in Sweden are unhappy with the way things are, and they're doing something about it.
And the translation of my book is just, you know, for them, that's just a part of that story, their own story of doing what they have to do to save Sweden for their own posterity.
Well, let me ask you this, Roger, because we have about a minute remaining in this segment, and then we're going to get to your third and final speaking stop on this European tour that you had.
But if you're a young man, let's just say you're a young man and you can live anywhere in the world.
Where do you want to live if it comes, if the question is finding a mate?
In terms of attractiveness and in terms of culture, do you want to go to Estonia?
Do you want to go to Sweden?
Estonia, well, Estonia has been protected.
Communism actually protected Estonia from some.
Yes, and so does the very unusual and difficult Estonian language.
They're not as subject to the influence of English language media there, and that has protected them as well.
So probably Estonia would be a better place to look for a mate.
I saw lots of women with children, you know, more than you do in Sweden when I was in Estonia, you know, families out together.
All right, very good.
So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.
Gentlemen, I guess if you're young and could move abroad, that may be a place to look.
Because I brought this up with Mark.
I mean, Estonia occupies a very fascinating, to me, corner of Europe.
I mean, it's a very obscure corner of Europe, but it's sort of different than everyone else.
I mean, what would you say to that?
What about his geography?
Very un-Soviet, very different from Russia, too.
You know, it was ruled by Russia for so long, but it looks totally different.
This is something Solzhenitsyn noticed when he lived there briefly in the 1960s.
It was very un-Soviet.
He felt like he was abroad, even though he was still in the Soviet Union.
It does look like a Western European country in many ways.
Does it have any commonality with Scandinavia?
I mean, because it's right there just below Finland, but north of all the rest of the world.
Mostly with Finland.
Mostly with Finland.
The languages are related.
And there have been a lot of, since the fall of the Soviet Union, there have been a lot of joint projects between Finland and Estonia.
It's something that you do notice.
There are, you know, a fair number of Finnish tourists.
So, yeah, there is a common cultural basis there and a common linguistic basis.
But still fascinating because, I mean, you can talk to people all the time.
Oh, I went to France.
I went to London.
I went to Australia.
I went to Canada.
How many people went to Estonia?
I mean, not many.
Right, right.
Well, a different kind of thing.
Tony chose the venue very carefully.
He said he wanted people, first-time visitors, to see Europe at its best.
And in a way, Estonia is Europe at its best in some way.
That medieval aesthetic.
I mean, we go back to that.
I've mentioned that a handful of times already tonight, but very fascinating and interesting.
Well, so Roger's been on.
He's addressed his address in Estonia and also in Sweden, but he made another stop, and we're going to talk about that next.
The Honorable Cause, a Free South, is a collection of 12 essays written by Southern Nationalist authors.
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In Message 1, we said that Satan, the father of lies, John 8, 44, gave the left evil spiritual power the more they use the lies.
The political left today is the beast.
Now, the Bible confirms that the dragon gave him the beast his power.
Revelation 13, 2.
The extra evil spiritual power that comes from the beast by their lying is what accounts for the string of the leftist criminals in the government that have never yet been prosecuted.
It also explains why American capitalists support communism in the 21st century.
Note one, that behavior of capitalists was predicted by Vladimir Lenin, a cell of the beast.
Note two, Henry Ford was a capitalist, and he would have never gone communist.
The difference between Ford and the present-day end-time capitalists is that Ford was born and educated in the kingdom of Christ, 19th century America, the New Jerusalem, Revelation 21.
Always great to talk to Mark Weber and Roger Devlin.
We have the chance to talk to both of them tonight.
Roger Jevlin, for one more segment, I got to share you, ladies and gentlemen, a little bit of behind-the-scenes information here.
When I give a speech, I write a speech about once every three years, and it's sort of like a band that travels from city to city.
It's the same speech, but it's a different city, so that audience has never heard it before.
And so I give the same speech from time to time to different audiences.
But Roger didn't do that on his most recent European tour, and that's something that flummoxes me to an extent.
I mean, Roger, you gave three different speeches in three different locales, and yeah, three different subjects, three different locations.
And you didn't do that.
You didn't play all the hits.
You played new songs every time.
And we moved now from Estonia to Stockholm, Sweden, and now to another European capital where you addressed the.
I think maybe I should mention before we get into the countercurrent conference that there was about a week and a half of free time that I had between the second and third events.
And I actually went to Budapest.
Budapest, Hungary.
Now, Budapest is a city that I saw for the first time not too long after the collapse of communism.
I was there as a young man in the early 90s.
It was still rather poor.
It's totally different now.
It's very prosperous under Viktor Orban's government.
There are a lot of people in the American press trying to convince you that he's some kind of dictator.
It's absurd.
People can say whatever they want in Hungary, probably more than we can in America.
And it's just very prosperous.
You can see it just walking along the boulevards everywhere.
Restaurants and cafes crowded with people.
It's attracting a lot of foreign tourists, even some people who think the way we do.
There are even actually refugees from Western Europe, like Frenchmen who are settling in Hungary because they want their kids to grow up around Europeans instead of the people the French government is bringing in now.
So that was a very interesting experience.
Well, I mean, you know, we keep hearing about Orban being a guy that we have some common interests with.
I mean, where would you say that in your experience, Roger, and I know that's all that you could speak to, but in your experience, where are people doing the best in Europe?
I think that's a good question.
Hungary might be a good choice, actually.
Estonia is doing well.
Estonia, unfortunately, elected a little bit left-of-center government recently, but it's still doing well.
But Hungary, Orban's party has a two-thirds majority.
Unlike the Poles who supposedly have this right-wing government, they're keeping out mass immigration.
The Poles have just decided to open the flight 400,000 people in.
I talked about that with Jared.
Jared was on with me on the May 27th broadcast because he, like you and like Mark, had planned a multi-city and nation tour of Europe.
I mean, your tours intersected at one point and then deviated at others.
But Jared, you know, of course, was banned at his first job as soon as he got off the plane at his first time.
He was sent back up.
By the Poles.
And that's the thing.
And I talked to Jared about this when he appeared in May.
He told us about all the places he was going to go to and what he would have talked about and what the people he was going to meet.
But it was the polls.
And the polls, it was just, you know, an interesting thing.
You hear the polls are sort of right of center.
And I believe that their own national government elected Jesus Christ as their president or something like the Lord of their country.
But they're sending home Jared Taylor.
I mean, that doesn't really add up.
That's right.
There is a powerful left still in Poland.
They're not in charge of the whole country, but they're still very influential.
That's not so much the case in Hungary.
Hungary is probably the best governed country in Europe right now.
They've got a real border.
Yes, it does.
Yeah, they built a border fence.
They had a brief migrant crisis.
A few years ago, you may have seen pictures of Budapest train stations being overrun by Middle Easterners.
But they got that under control very quickly and built a fence.
And the country is just prospering mightily.
It's totally different from what I saw as a young man a generation ago shortly after the collapse of communism.
All right, very good.
So, I mean, it looks like we still have anybody can always find fault with somebody.
But yes, I mean, for good or bad, it looks like Hungary is a place where that's a standard for our people right now.
Now, let's talk about the Countercurrents event.
Now, we're spending the least amount of time on this because last week the program director, Cyan, who we all know and love, sent us the very talented young man Austin to share with us his reflections on the Countercurrent Spring event at another European capital in Europe.
But you were there too, Roger.
And this was the third stop in the third different speech.
Now, share with us the topic of your address as well as your takeaways from this conference, not only the topic of the conference, but the people in the city at which you were at.
Yes.
Well, we got about, although it was a private invitation-only event, we had 40 people come, many of them from quite distant locales.
You know, a lot of Americans were there.
And I want to say, if you have any Countercurrents fans among your audience, it's not that difficult to get invited to such events if you are interested.
Just, you know, sending a small monthly donation, enough to get behind the paywall on the Countercurrents site is enough.
You will get invitations to one American retreat and one European retreat every year.
That's the plan.
There's going to be an American retreat this fall, and there will be another European meeting probably next spring.
It's already under discussion.
But anyway, this one that was just two, three weeks ago, it was a delightful event.
I myself spoke about Alanda Benoit on populism.
My talk has been posted at Countercurrents, and the video, the actual video of me delivering the talk was just posted at Countercurrents like today or yesterday.
And this is a book that I translated, so that's what Greg asked me to speak about.
And I've read now a number of titles on populism, and Alanda Benoit is on a whole other level.
He'll teach you, he'll teach anybody a lot that they don't know about the history of populism, about another one of his themes is the fading importance of the old right versus left distinction.
And so I basically just summarize some of his themes from this important book.
It's called The Populist Moment.
It was published in French a few years ago.
My English translation is due to come out in a month or two from Countercurrents Publishing.
So you'll be able to read the book itself soon.
But it's a wonderful analysis.
Populism is not an ideology.
It's not something that can be definitely located on the right-left spectrum or anything.
It's a kind of a configuration of forces that occasionally recurs when what the major parties are offering the public does not correspond to any public demand.
And that's been the case now for a generation.
You know, three-quarters of Americans are opposed to mass immigration, and yet there's this tacit agreement between the Republicans and the Democrats not to talk about it and never to run a candidate that actually gives Americans a choice on the issue.
Donald Trump took, of course, took the Republicans by surprise.
They never wanted a candidate who was talking about even so much as illegal immigration, still less anybody who talked about building a wall on the border.
But as soon as Trump made that speech, he immediately shot up to the top of the polls because he was meeting a political demand that the main parties were not.
And that is the characteristic of populism.
It's when the powerful are out of sync with ordinary people and don't give them any choice that they're interested in making.
And that's true in a lot of Western countries now, including Alain de Benoit's native France.
The last presidential election, 85% of Frenchmen polled said they would be disappointed in the result no matter who gets elected.
They didn't like any of the candidates.
And that's very common across the West now.
A generation ago, you had families voting for the right or voting for the left across generations.
And now people will vote for a different party every time or just abstain from voting, you know, because the big parties just don't offer the public what they're interested in anymore.
So that is the nature of populism.
It's not an ideology.
It's a political configuration involving an out-of-touch elite and angry citizenry.
Roger, I got to ask you one more thing, and thank you for that breakdown.
I want to read, I found it in the last commercial break, the Countercurrents review.
I don't know if it's a review.
It's the testimonials of sexual utopia and power.
And here's just a few.
Love and sex have never been confusing, have never been confusing to me.
I have Roger Devlin to thank for that.
Also, this from a reviewer, Dr. Devlin, this is what I was stabbing at earlier.
Dr. Devlin is perhaps the best role model there is for independent scholars on the right.
His writings can be found on nearly every website, The Mainstream Fears.
Now, that is, I think, one of the most incredible compliments that one can be paid.
You're an independent scholar.
And you're everywhere.
I was very pleased by that.
There was credit to Benjamin V. R.O.L., which, if you don't know it, was actually the late Martin Rojas, who worked for Jared for so many years.
I did not know that.
He wrote those words.
And yes, I didn't know it at the time.
But yes, that was his assessment.
And yes, I was very honored to see him say that about me.
And then here on the show tonight, and in other compliments as well.
Get the book Sexual Utopian Power.
It's a countercurrents publication.
You can get it through them and elsewhere.
We want to thank both Marshall.
You can't get it at Amazon.
It's been banned from Amazon.
But I think you can get it from Barnes and Noble and certainly from Countercurrents.
All right, let me ask you this, Roger.
One question remaining.
If you could live on anywhere, if you could live anywhere that you visited on your most recent tour of Europe, where would it be?
Oh, I liked the last city I visited, which I'm not supposed to say what it is, but it was a delightful town.
And so I encourage anybody who has any interest in Europe to get involved with Countercurrents and maybe try to come to our next retreat next year.
It'll be somewhere in some other lovely place in Europe, I'm sure.
All right.
For Mark Weber and Roger Devlin, I'm signing off.
No, we got another hour remaining, and you don't want to miss it.