June 18, 2022 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
Little GTO, you're riding up and fly.
Three nooses and a four speed and a 389.
Listen to her tacking up now.
Listen to her wine.
Come on, turn it on, wind it up, blow it out, GTO.
It is summertime on TPC, and we've got the music to match the season.
But I'll tell you what else we've got right now.
It's a very special installment coming your way this hour.
Dr. Kevin McDonald has been one of our mainstay guests for years and years.
But what we're going to be doing tonight is a little bit different than bringing him on for regular commentary, at which he certainly excels.
But tonight, we're going to be exploring the renowned professor's life, an autobiographical interview, if you will, his formative years, his intellectual journey, the trials, the triumphs, and so much more this hour.
It's a special presentation with one of our all-time favorites.
Kevin, how are you doing tonight?
Thanks for being with us again.
I'm doing great, James.
Great to be here.
Well, it's great to have you.
And of course, Dr. McDonald is a professor emeritus of psychology at California State University, author of several books, including Cultural Insurrections and His Most Recent Individualism and the Western Liberal Tradition.
Kevin, doing this is something that I had in mind for some time.
And we were talking just last week about the top five guests, the five guests who have made more appearances on this program than all of the rest.
And you are firmly in that top five.
And I thought it would be nice to talk to you about you instead of all of the other issues that are besieged upon us.
And I appreciate you taking me up on the offer.
Yeah.
Well, there's a lot to talk about.
Yeah, but let's get on with it.
All right.
Well, here's what we've got.
So you were born in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and you had shared with me before that you weren't always the Kevin McDonald that we know today.
And that in your early years, you leaned a little bit to the left.
So tell us about that time in your life, if you don't mind, and when and how things began to change.
Yeah, I was, as you say, I was born in Oskosh, and my father was a policeman.
And when I was in high school, towards the end, I started to get a little political, but sort of, you know, sort of naturally, you know, got involved with Democrats.
And, you know, I canvassed for, you know, for example, Gaylord Nelson as a senator and went to college.
And I was still liberal.
I couldn't imagine becoming a Republican at that time because, you know, they were all these conservative country club types, you know, very stuffy.
You go to the young Republicans at the university, and they were all in suits and ties.
You know, nobody else was doing that.
And they all probably came from, you know, pretty wealthy families and all that.
And I didn't relate to that.
But so I got involved with Democrats.
But then, you know, I got this Jewish roommate when I was working as a bus boy at a restaurant on campus.
And he was, you know, he had those radical friends.
And because there was this Jewish radical subculture there.
And you don't say.
What's that?
That's it.
You don't say.
Yeah, I don't say.
Shocking.
But I really saw a lot of it up close and personal and what it was like.
And they would idolize Jewish professors.
They idolized people like Trotsky and Rosa Luxemburg and these Jewish radicals.
And I really didn't realize how Jewish it was.
A lot of them were children of the so-called red diaper.
They were what you call red diaper babies.
That is, their parents in the 1930s were communists.
Sure.
And they were reared as communists.
And they were proud of that.
But they always looked down on the old left, the old left, Stalin and all that.
They wanted to be the new left.
And they broke away from that.
The idea was they weren't going to be so authoritarian and all that, I guess.
They rejected, as I say, Stalinism.
But the big issue was the war in Vietnam.
And so there are a lot of protests.
I went to a lot of these protests, sit-ins, and so on.
And I never got arrested because I was, you know, sort of on the periphery of it all, but also knew a lot of the people who were centrally involved.
And that was my experience.
You know, I majored in philosophy at the time.
And I just really liked philosophy.
And I wanted to go to graduate school.
So I actually got accepted at the graduate school at the University of Wisconsin.
But things were just so chaotic in the 1960s.
I can't even describe, especially my situation, living with these roommates, radicals and musicians and everything.
I got very much into music and jazz and stuff like that.
And there was a, you know, pot was a big deal.
And so then I became radical.
I mean, I became convinced of all this.
And when I finally left Madison in 1970, I guess, I was still on the left.
And so I just decided, you know, I didn't want to just sort of take an ordinary kind of trajectory.
I dropped out of graduate school.
And I decided to go to Jamaica as a teacher.
So I taught in the public schools of Jamaica.
And that sort of woke me up to embrace realism a little bit.
I bet.
Because, yeah, these students were actually at the top of their classes in grade school, I guess.
Not all children went to high school.
And I taught high school.
Not all children went to high school.
So these were the top students.
But they weren't very good.
And they didn't work very hard.
And they were nice, friendly people, that's for sure.
But they were not really good students.
So it was a two-year sojourn there.
And I think I came back a little more conservative, but not very, you know, this was 1974.
Finally got back.
I went there in 1972, came back right as Nixon was being impeached.
And I was still, you know, I started to be conservative then.
You know, I was happy, you know, I liked Gerald Ford, voted for him.
And then I voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980.
I was thrilled that Reagan won.
So by your late 30s, late 30s, you would say, you had begun the transformation, as it were.
Yeah.
And I think it was like more my real personality coming out.
You know, actually, they do scientific behaviors in any kind of studies.
You become who you are more as you get older.
And I think I had a sort of natural conservative streak.
It just didn't really sit with me.
And I started to ponder what had happened.
And I started reaching the crazy thing because I sort of lost 10 years of my life by dropping out and everything.
So it was, you know, certainly.
I'm already utterly fascinated just being a friend of yours and someone who has known you and worked with you behind the scenes and, of course, hosted you so many times.
I am enjoying this as a listener, hearing you tell your story.
I don't know why we didn't do this before now, but we've got three more segments to continue the treatment, and we will do just that with the famed evolutionary psychologist, Dr. Kevin McDonald.
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Calling all patriots, come meet to modern-day hero Tom Jones on day 68 of his 76 marathons in 76 days on behalf of the American Village West.
We'll be at the Liberty Hall in Far West, Utah on Friday evening, June 24th at 5 p.m.
There will be free food and drinks.
Who is Tom Jones?
Loving Liberty's Sam Bushman interviewed him on day one in Alabama, just moments before he began his first marathon.
Get to know Tom at UnitedWePledge.org.
And we're back with the esteemed Dr. Kevin MacDonald.
We have been through one segment, three remaining.
I have 10 questions left on the deck.
I've gotten through one of them.
So, Kevin, by certainly no means do I intend to rush you, but I want to cover as much as we can, even though I'm enthralled with the story that you've told so far.
So, we're up to the 1980s, but I guess it would be your time as a tenured professor of psychology at California State University.
That is probably the period of your life when most people began to know your work and come to know who you are.
What was the trail that led you from the early 80s, which is where we paused?
You had been excited about Reagan's election that led you from Wisconsin to Jamaica all the way to Long Beach, California.
How did you get there?
Yeah, I got back from Jamaica and I decided to go to graduate school.
And I first got into sort of almost by accident, but I got into a biology program, evolutionary biology, with a taxonomist, you know, which is taxonomy is classification of animals.
And he classified mammals.
And I saw, you know, I got that my master's degree, but I wasn't really into that.
You know, that's such 19th century stuff, really.
And so I transferred to the Department of Biobehavioral Sciences, which was much more about behavior.
And I studied wolves and got my PhD in 1983, I guess.
And I was out for a couple of years.
I was teaching at Trinity College in Hartford.
And then I got the job in Long Beach in 1985.
And I was working really hard, publishing as much as I could, edited a book in 1988, I guess.
And I published a book in 1988 called Social and Personality Development.
And I just was really cranking out stuff, sort of mainstream evolutionary psychology.
But the last chapter of that book on social personality development was about the Spartans.
It was about a group that had very strict rules and they had a sort of blueprint for their society, how to set it up, how to survive.
And it was totally militarized.
And, you know, in the ancient world, you almost had to be totally militarized to survive because it was a brutal world.
And if you were defeated, it was slavery and the end of everything.
So that got me the idea of group evolutionary strategy.
And I went with that.
At the time, it was completely heretical.
Nobody was into this because E.L. Wilson, the standard sociobiology was always that natural selection worked at the individual level.
It couldn't work at group level.
But I felt that humans were different because humans can set up their groups.
They can regulate who comes in, who comes out, who's committing heresy and different things.
So I went with that.
And I figured the best group to study would be Judaism because there's so much written about it in such a long period of time.
And so that's how I got into it.
And at the time, I didn't know much about it.
I was sort of, I remember being sort of a little bit upset, you know, 1972 when Carter was running for president.
He went to New York and made all these promises about Israel.
And, you know, I was just seeing our foreign policy dominated by these people.
But, you know, I wasn't like a big activist or anti-Zionist or anything.
I just really, you know, in the back of my mind.
And also in the back of my mind was my experiences in Madison with these radicals.
And so anyway, I just started reading, reading.
And I'm not the kind of person who is a critic of Judaism, who had personal problems with Jews or something like that.
I knew Jewish friends and I used to play tennis and go to parties and all this stuff.
But so that wasn't the issue.
But the more I read, you know, I just realized these people are not on the same page with us.
They have opposed us.
And they have a long history of sort of grievances against Western civilization, Christianity.
And you start to realize that these people are really dead set against you.
And that they're also very pale.
I would interject right here.
This is, if you don't mind me, fast forwarding to the mid-90s.
So you're already at California State University by then.
And this is when you publish your, I guess what many would call, what I would call your seminal works, the Culture of Critique series.
And those are in order of publication from 1994 to 1998.
People that shall dwell alone, Judaism as a group evolutionary strategy, separation and its discontents toward an evolutionary theory of anti-Semitism, and then the culture of critique, an evolutionary analysis of Jewish involvement in the 20th century intellectual and political movements.
So that's what we're talking about.
And you've already answered it.
I think you've touched on it.
But what was it about this particular issue of evolutionary behavior that piqued your intellectual curiosity?
You could have applied your talents and research and scholarly scholarship to anything, but this was what you chose.
Yeah, I chose Judaism.
I also did, as I said, the thing on Sparta, but I also did a thing on the Assyrians, a brief thing.
But these people are, those groups are not influential.
They're not important.
These Assyrians are an interesting Middle Eastern group.
There's some in America.
I went to some meetings of their group in Los Angeles.
And, you know, it was very interesting.
And it was very much of a collectivist, closed kind of group, you know, or foreign to the Western sensibility.
But that's what, you know, that's what an Orthodox Jewish community looks like, too.
It's very closed off, very insular.
And they tend to have very negative attitudes towards anyone who's not Jewish.
And, you know, there's a whole long tradition in Jewish religious law that non-Jews are completely different species, really.
There's categorical difference, that they're not even really human, completely human.
We're not really human compared to Jews.
And you really get into this idea of this gross difference.
I just wrote a preface.
There's a book called You Gentiles by Maurice Samuel.
It's written in 1924.
And this guy's a Jewish activist, but he emphasizes that, that we are completely different, foreign.
You know, there's no commonality here.
And we can't really live with each other without antagonism.
And anyway, it's this just huge abyss between us, you know, that is from their point of view.
And so that's where it started.
So the first book, People That Should Dwell Alone, was on traditional Judaism.
That's really what it was, this closed Orthodox.
You know, rabbis had power of life and death over people in their congregation, basically.
You know, if you were a heretic, you'd get expelled.
They could put you.
They had little prisons in the synagogue.
They would, you know, your whole family would be tarnished if you were a heretic, or if you married a non-Jew or anything like that, your whole family would suffer and lose status.
So they had all these controls.
And that's what I mean.
It was a group strategy.
It wasn't like Jews could do what they wanted to do individually.
They had to conform to the law, you know, from eating kosher and all that.
Really, Kosher was designed to keep Jews apart from Gentiles.
You know, they couldn't drink wine together.
They couldn't eat the same food or anything.
And so there's this gulf that they have erected, beginning in the ancient world, to keep themselves separate, to keep their gene pools separate.
And they did.
And, you know, so it was racial in the end.
It was, yes, they've been racial.
And, you know, now, of course, the irony, I suppose, is that a big part of my book, Cultural Critique, is that these Jewish intellectuals have spearheaded the idea that race doesn't exist and all that and not important.
Well, they've been doing it for 2,000 years.
Well, that's right.
Yeah.
I'm doing something that's actually quite lazy as a host because if you read my Wikipedia entry, it reads like one of Paul Bunyan's tall tales.
But this is actually quite good, I think.
If you take away the disparaging adjectives, it writes that the Culture of Critique series suggests that Western Jews have tended to be politically liberal and involved in politically or sexually transgressive social, philosophical, and artistic movements because Jews have biologically evolved to undermine the societies in which they live.
I think any honest observer could come to those conclusions.
And it continues.
McDonald claims that a suite of traits that he attributes to Jews, including higher than average verbal intelligence and ethnocentrism, have culturally evolved to enhance their ability to out-compete non-Jews for resources.
Motivated by hatred of hostility towards American Christian culture, they are undermining the European Christian majorities in the Western world.
I think that that is something, that is something worthy of scholarly exploration.
And we have one man, one man in the entirety of the American university system who has been willing to publicly take this on.
And that's Kevin McDonald.
We'll be right back.
Pursuing liberty, using the Constitution as our guide.
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Firefighters in Philadelphia mourning the loss of one of their own.
Deputy Fire Commissioner Craig Murphy says the fallen firefighter is 51-year-old Sylvester Williamson, a 27-year veteran of the department.
This was just a catastrophic accident that really hurt our department.
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The blaze broke out early Saturday morning at a three-story building that housed a pizza shop and apartments.
The building collapsed shortly after the fire was put out.
Four firefighters in total and an inspector with the city's Department of Licenses and Inspections were trapped at the time of the collapse.
One firefighter remains hospitalized.
Williamson was pronounced dead at the scene.
He leaves behind a mother and his son.
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The decision stemmed from a lawsuit filed by abortion providers who challenged a 2020 law requiring a 24-hour waiting period before a woman could get an abortion.
The court ruling comes as there is speculation that the U.S. Supreme Court will overturn the Roe versus Wade decision as soon as this coming week.
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Wall Street ended Friday with its worst week since the COVID crash in 2020.
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Folks, we're back with, again, one of our mainstay guests, Dr. Kevin McDonald, who has been on the show so many times before, but never before exactly like this, where we're talking about his life and his experiences.
I know we had received a comment or a question from one of our listeners earlier in the day in advance of Dr. McDonald's appearance tonight, asking about his most recent book, Individualism and the Western Liberal Tradition.
If you're interested in that book, and you well should be, please do visit our broadcast archives.
We're not going to get into it tonight, but if you go to our broadcast archives at thepolitical cessible.org, scroll back to the broadcast of October the 5th, 2019.
Kevin was on that night for a two-hour appearance, an extended appearance, two full hours, during which we exhaustively talked about that book, its chapters, and its contents.
It is a wonderful interview.
And if you're interested in his most recent book, I encourage you to go check it out there.
But that being said, where we left off, Kevin, was your culture of critique series.
So you were already at the University of California, California State University, rather, in Long Beach.
And that's in the mid-90s.
So what was the reaction then?
Because for me, it wasn't until the mid-2000s where you began to star in the local production there of The Crucible, where the opposition against you reached a fever pitch.
That was about a decade after, a little less than a decade after, the culture of critique.
What was the reaction then, and why did the heat get so turned up a few years later?
Yeah, the reaction from my first book, the one in 1994, People That Shall Dwell Alone, was very, I got good reviews and stuff like that.
I was very happy with that because it was, and I, you know, I'd go to a conference, evolutionary psych conference, and I'd talk about the book.
And I'd be there selling the book, I guess.
And it was well received.
But then, you know, the second book was Separation of Discontents.
It's about anti-Semitism.
And I took the view that there are real reasons for anti-Semitism over the centuries.
And the behavior of Jews is certainly a big part of that reasons.
And that got much fewer reviews and some hostile ones.
And then the Culture Critique came out and it got really no reviews except for Frank Salter, who gave it a positive review in the human ethology newsletter.
So you can see actually in real time between 1994 and 1998, how the reaction, how the media was beginning to evolve in its own ways or devolve.
That's right.
And there was a controversy.
Prager was the publisher, but they washed their hands of it.
You know, there was pressure.
The person who had agreed to publish the books, the editor of the series, was forced to resign and didn't get out of that.
So he couldn't have his series of books anymore.
And so there was some fallout there.
But I bought the paperback rights.
And I got a publisher.
And so it's been a paperback ever since.
And around 2000, I testified for David Irving.
And that was a sort of a, there was a sort of hullabaloo around that because, you know, he's a Holocaust tonight or something like that.
And, you know, the issue, the only issue was that I had put noted David Irving in my book, Separationist Discontents as someone who had been harassed by Jewish organizations when he tries to speak.
You know, he was prevented from going to Australia, for example.
And a whole lot of others had been in prison.
So to me, it was a free speech issue.
And I just wanted to be, you know, I felt I should testify and simply say that Jewish organizations were behind this and they do this all the time.
And so I was on the stand, you know, and he sort of led me through this.
And I'm sort of, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.
And then there was no cross-examiner.
They didn't do a darn thing.
So there was a hullaboo around that for a while, but it sort of died down.
And then the big thing was in 2006 when the Southern Poverty Law Center came to Long Beach.
And they got the faculty all riled up at the university was in turmoil.
And they had these faculty email lists.
Well, at the time, I was on the psych email list, but also the College of Liberal Arts.
And there used to be, I'd wake up in the morning and find 25, 30 hostile emails from faculty.
And it was tough, because I know a lot of, I knew the people in psychology.
And so then I felt I had to respond.
They came up with reasons not to like my work.
So I spent an awful lot of time going through various rebuttals.
The history department put out a statement.
I made rebuttals to those statements.
They had three statements, I think.
And then all the departments at the university came out with statements against me.
They didn't have any real substance.
We want to distance ourselves from Professor McDonald and we think he's abhorrent or something, but that's about it.
And then the whole College of Liberal Arts did the same thing, the Faculty Senate.
My one regret is I didn't, you know, they invited me to go to the faculty meeting there and, you know, rebut what was going on.
But I just didn't feel comfortable doing that at the time.
And there's such, you know, it was very hard on me.
Some people have a personality where they actually seem to like it when people are hostile towards them.
And I'm not like that.
I know, especially at first, being called any Semite and racist and all that stuff, it's really hard for me to do that.
You know, some people like Phil Rushdie, I think he reveled in that, but I did not like it.
And my response was to sort of cowerer.
You know, you know, but though, Kevin, but though, but though, you never back down.
And that is what I give you my undying support and devotion for having been through those fires myself and you know, my nearly 20 years on the radio and everything we've been through.
When I, when another man digs his heels in, he may not like it.
I mean, of course, it's not enjoyable.
But you never back down.
You never apologized.
You never recanted.
You never backed away from the truths that your research led you toward.
And that's something.
And so few people are willing to do that.
You did it.
And you're still standing and you're still here.
What was it?
What was it?
I would ask you, what separates you from so many others who would have just given them what they want?
They would have either melted or they would have apologized or they would have gone away in shame.
You didn't do that.
Yeah, well, you know, I think you're right that anybody who goes out like you and I have done and other people, you know, there are quite a few others, Jared Taylor, Michael Hill, and people like that.
Well, there's some.
I mean, there's certainly one in a million.
You stood your ground.
What compelled you to stand your ground?
Well, I never saw anything to indicate I was wrong about anything.
You know, I mean, I go through these things and I'd rebut things that I thought were interesting and, you know, interesting objections, things that should be addressed, misunderstandings or whatever.
But I never felt, oh, I've been proved wrong.
And I made it very clear how you could prove me wrong, say, in culture of critique.
All you have to do is show that these movements, the people behind the movements, were not Jews, or they were Jews, but they didn't really identify as Jews, or they were identified as Jews, but they did not see their work as advancing Jewish interests.
That's all you got to do.
And that hasn't been done.
Most recently, this guy, Nathan Kaufness, went after me.
He's gone after me like three articles, and he's gotten it published in academic journals.
And so I really wanted to respond to them.
But only one academic journal actually allowed me to respond.
I posted my responses on my website, but I never, they just would not allow a response to this guy.
But finally, this Israeli journal, Philosophia, they allowed it.
And so I wrote a paper.
It went through the peer review process.
And by God, it got published in January of this year.
So, you know, it's a long thing.
It's like, you know, what is this?
16,000 words or something.
It's huge.
And it is, you know, it's a long response to a lot of different issues.
But the main one is the immigration law.
Because one way you could prove that cultural critique is wrong, because it's central chapter seven on Jewish involvement in shaping United States immigration policy.
And my view, and I went into a lot of historical research, congressional record, and all the secondary sources and everything.
And there's no question.
And now since I wrote my book in 1998, there's been some corroboration by other social scientists.
Otis Graham, for one, and his brother, who's also an historian, have written very, very favorable, you know, things.
They don't cite me, but they say the same thing.
The main force were these Jewish organizations.
So anyway, that is the crux of this thing.
And I put in a lot of new research from a lot of it from Jewish authors Showing that this goes back to 90 to something like a 60, 70-year battle they finally won.
Hold on right there.
Dr. Kevin McDonald, ladies and gentlemen, I hope that you are enjoying this hour as much as I am because I am enjoying it thoroughly after all of the years and all of the interviews.
You know, Kevin's been on the show well in excess of 50 times, but this one I think will stand under standing out to me right now.
It's James, and I've got to tell you that I sleep better at night knowing that there are organizations like the Conservative Citizens Foundation.
The purpose of the Conservative Citizens Foundation is to promote the principles of limited government, individual liberty, equality before the law, property rights, law and order, judicial restraint, and states' rights.
while at the same time exploring the dangers posed by liberalism to our national interests and cultural institutions.
The Conservative Citizens Foundation also seeks to educate the public on the dangers of extremist ideologies like critical race theory and cultural Marxism.
I've worked with the good people at the Conservative Citizens Foundation for many years, and their work comes with my complete endorsement.
For more information and to keep up with all the latest conservative news headlines, please check out their website, MericaFirst.com.
That's M-E-R-I-C-A-1ST.com.
MericaFirst.com.
In message one, we said that Satan, the father of lies, John 8, 44, gave the left evil spiritual power the more they use the lies.
The political left today is the beast.
Now, the Bible confirms that the dragon gave him the beast his power.
Revelation 13, 2.
The extra evil spiritual power that comes from the beast by their lying is what accounts for the string of the leftist criminals in the government that have never yet been prosecuted.
It also explains why American capitalists support communism in the 21st century.
Note one, that behavior of capitalists was predicted by Vladimir Lenin, a sell of the beast.
Note two, Henry Ford was a capitalist, and he would have never gone communist.
The difference between Ford and the present day end-time capitalists is that Ford was born and educated in the kingdom of Christ, 19th century America, the New Jerusalem, Revelation 21.
We're back with Kevin MacDonald for one more segment.
This has been an interview that has been autobiographical in nature, and it has been entirely my honor to present it to you.
Thankful for Kevin's participation.
And hey, it's been 18 years and 50-plus interviews, but I hope, Kevin, there are many more years and many more conversations between us to come.
I would ask, we're up now to the period in your life of the mid-2000s when the SPLC came to town.
And I remember this vividly because we were already doing interviews together by this time.
They came to town and it really had a media manufactured outcry against you.
And you held your line.
You held your ground honorably and dug your toes in, dug your heels in.
I got a couple of questions for you.
If we could limit your answers to maybe 60 seconds about that, just a quick rapid fire segment here for a couple of questions, and then we'll get into a little more detailed wrap-up.
But you taught in classrooms with actual students, and this to me is actually quite intriguing.
I would ask you, what was that experience like working with actual students up to and beyond the 2000s?
Yeah, because I did get a certain sort of notoriety on campus, especially after the Southern Power Law Center came.
But the students seemed to be basically oblivious to it.
They didn't, it was never raised.
You know, some students, I sort of heard that they felt sorry for me because I was being sort of persecuted in a way.
But, you know, one of the things that I was told was that I really couldn't talk about the Jewish stuff, say, in my child development class, which makes sense.
I mean, that's the way it's supposed to be in the academic world, but of course, these leftist professors, they'll throw in leftist stuff to anything.
But so I kept, I never talked about it.
You know, I just talk about child development and various aspects of personality, the other thing I taught, really.
And so it never came up.
And there were a couple of incidents where at first day of class, these radicals came in and they were protesting the class.
They were trying to get students to drop the class.
I'm thinking to myself, well, that'd be a good idea.
And then I have less work to grade tests and everything.
Work less, make more.
Work less, make the same.
Yeah, what the heck?
That would be okay.
That was a good deal, but not very many.
A couple did.
A couple walked out.
But I think the atmosphere would be a lot worse now than it was then.
Back in, I left in 2014, pointly.
Right.
So, I mean, that's not that long ago.
I mean, you know, you've, again, the years blur.
You reach a certain point in life where the years start to speed up.
It seems as though they're pushing fast forward on the tape of your life.
And I'm in that stage right now in the child rearing phase.
And I can't separate 2014 from 2020 or 18 or 22.
Anyway, but the concept of a university is that of a place where a robust search of truth, knowledge, and understanding can take place, where rigorous debate can occur.
Is that accurate, Kevin?
60 seconds.
That's the idea that I grew up with for sure.
But it's anything but now.
It's a disaster.
There's orthodoxy and censorship and exclusion.
You won't get hired if you have ideas anything like ours.
You won't, if you do get hired by, you know, if they come to know about it, you won't get tenure.
Or if you do get tenure, they'll hassle you to death like they did me.
So, you know, it's just really a difficult life at the university.
But I stuck it up just because I didn't want to give up a pension, you know, and I didn't want to succumb to the whole thing.
I just went through it.
Well, as a scholar, as a scholar who took seriously his profession and your pursuit of truth and greater understanding, does it dismay you to find that the university system and in fact the educational establishment in general is actively working to race to the bottom rather than bringing in students who will reach a higher level of understanding?
They seek to bring everyone down to a common denominator in search of egalitarianism or equity.
Yeah, I think whole university is going downhill in terms of the quality of students.
They've gotten rid of all standardized tests in the California, both California systems, the University of California and the California State System.
And that's true of many, many university systems now.
And what that means is that if you're black, you just write an essay about how oppressed you are and you get into the university and you have your high school grades to go on.
You went to really bad high school, so you've got straight A's, but it doesn't mean a thing.
And the standardized tests were supposed to be egalitarian instruments.
We're poor people who didn't really get much of a great education early in life, but they're smart.
And then they do well on these standardized tests and then get into good schools.
That was a mechanism of upper mobility, but they're getting rid of that because of black lack of accomplishment is really the one and only reason why this is happening.
I talked to a oh, I was just going to say, to add to your point, I talked to a professor at a university a few years ago who's not on the radar, but he said he was basically forced to pass his students no matter where they stood, no matter how bad they were failing.
He had to pass it because the university was getting government grants and government money for every diploma they could churn out.
Oh, yeah.
And, you know, the reality is white students are getting discriminated against massively, especially at the top universities like Princeton.
I saw something like they're admitting 15% white students this next year.
15%.
And so whereas blacks are about the same level.
And, you know, as if blacks and whites are the same percentage of the population.
And, you know, there are all these other groups that Asians are now a big deal.
Asians are smart and they're doing very well.
And so now they're getting admitted right and left to these universities.
I said, the future is going to be that you have the rise of this Asian Jewish technocratic elite, you know, media elite and all that.
And then you've got white people.
Well, you know, but that's interesting because Bill Johnson talked about this recently.
And I need to have Bill back on the show to examine it a little further.
He's of the opinion that because the Jews can't bludgeon the Chinese with Holocaust history or mythology or whatever you want to call it, that they may not be able to deal with them as easily as they've dealt with white Christians.
And that's an interesting concept.
And we'll see what happens.
But in any event, Kevin, we've got five minutes remaining, and I've got three questions left.
And that's far too many with such little time.
But I remember just very quickly a take on this.
You had shared with me during the BLM uprising.
You were still on a faculty email list, and there was no dissent whatsoever.
Whatever the establishment narrative was, every single professor at your university had fallen in line.
There was no debate.
There was no discussion.
It was just pure, whatever the media was saying, that's what every professor felt obliged to say.
And we still see it.
And during that, when they're all hostile at me, you see virtue signaling continuously.
And so they burnish their leftist credentials in public.
And any conservatives, it's just not going to say anything and hope that they can people will ignore them or something.
But they can absolve themselves of a hit piece.
I mean, they're too afraid to be called a name.
We descend from a people who sacrificed blood and bone, but we don't want to be called a name.
So they're not going to, look, you were called names.
You survived.
You're okay.
But, I mean, it's not enjoyable, but you endured it.
And you did it as a man.
You're a man.
We need more men.
We need more leadership.
There is that.
You know, you feel you would do what I never want to debase myself, humiliate myself by recanting or something.
What do they want me to do?
Say, oh, I renounce my book.
I won't sell it anymore.
I'll unpublish it.
Come on.
I'm not going to do that.
Yeah, the truth is no longer true.
I came to these conclusions not because I wanted to, but because that's where the path of truth led me.
But by the way, let me debase myself in front of you.
And this is something that people who haven't been through that furnace of tribulation don't understand.
There's no absolution on offer.
You're not going to be welcomed back into the club just because you cuck.
I mean, that's it.
So they can take everything from you but your self-respect.
And if you give that to them, they'll take that too, and you still won't be restored.
But, you know, Kevin, there was, man, two minutes, not enough time.
You and Virginia Abernathy, Virginia Abernathy, the Harvard-educated Virginia Abernathy, Professor Emeritus herself at Vanderbilt University.
I know of two professors, of all the professors that there are in this nation, two professors that have held the line and have done it with dignity and honor.
And it's you and it's her.
And surely there's more.
There are certainly more out there, but we'll wait for them to present themselves.
I got to say one thing about Kevin that I know about him.
And I hope you won't mind me sharing this with the audience.
This man spoke at one of my conferences a few years ago.
He came in with a suitcase full of books.
He sold them all.
But I'll tell you what's even more impressive.
He played the piano.
He played the piano after hours.
I have never seen a man play the piano that well.
Kevin McDonald, the jazz pianist.
You think you know a guy until he gets behind and starts tickling the ivory.
You remember that night, Kevin?
Yeah, I do.
And I'm still into it.
I take a lot of pleasure.
You know, it's part of my past.
I told you about it, you know, jazz in the 1960s.
That's when I got acclimated, socialized.
I think everybody goes through a part of life when they get socialized to music, whether it's when they're teenager or early adulthood.
And that was me.
And I'm in a group.
I enjoyed doing it.
It's just a lot of fun.
Kevin, I know you have no regrets.
You've taken a stand.
You've set an example for others to follow.
And I salute you.
I am so thankful for the many years we've been able to do these interviews together on this program, for the years we've worked behind the scenes on the Occidental Quarterly for a couple of years with Bill Regnery's project of TOQ Online before YouTube spiked us.
With seconds remaining, what's the future look like?
What's the next chapter in the Kevin McDonald's story?
Geez, I don't know.
I think we're in dire political situation.
I worry that you and I are going to be cellmates at some Christmas.
Hey.
Hey, if we are, that'll be an honor, too.
And I'll be glad to call you a cellmate.
Kevin, I have enjoyed this hour.
I don't think it's going to go that way.
I think we're going to turn things around.
And when we do, you will have played an outsized role in that.
Can't thank you enough, my friend.
Look forward to the next interview.
Well, thank you.
Thank you.
And I look forward to our next conversation already.
But tonight was a little bit different and a little bit special.