March 12, 2022 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, going across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the political cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
I only wish we had the sort of vigor that our people did back when that was an anthem and a standard bear.
Welcome back to our march around the world.
We are trekking westward across Europe this particular evening from Zagreb to London we go and the land from whence we came.
We're in England this hour with the British barrister Adrian Davis, another good friend of ours.
He's reporting from London about the current situation there and in the United Kingdom at large.
And of course, we're going to get his take on the war in Eastern Europe too.
Adrian, thank you for being with us and welcome back.
Oh, well, delighted to be with you, even if it's one o'clock in the morning here.
You know, I think this is the no retreat, no surrender, no apology show, but we can feel bad about the inconvenience we put on our guests this month over there in Europe.
On the other hand, I think that Adrian's just getting revved up by 1 o'clock in the morning.
Hey, this is a guy that's got a – I'm a late bird, naturally.
I'm a late riser and late worker, but one o'clock in the morning is pushing it a little, maybe even for me.
Well, that's the early bird gets to war on what does the light bird get?
You get to come on the show with us on Saturday night.
But no, listen, it's fantastic to have you back at any hour, but especially this late hour.
And I'm looking forward to doing, as you said, the next time you're over here in the United States.
We need to do a full three-hour show.
I have talked and fantasized about us doing it maybe in Atlanta with Sam Dixon or wherever we can get it.
That'd just be a great show.
We'll have a lot of fun.
We'll do it when you get back and when it all makes sense again.
Now that we can travel again, hey, at least this war cured COVID, so that's a good thing.
But we'll get to that.
First, Adrian, let's see.
I'm not going to be traveling anywhere until airlines no longer insist I wear a face nappy for a 10-hour transatlantic fly.
I'm not going to be doing that anytime, I can tell you.
So, yes.
Well, I can tell you this.
It's possible that that day may come because if the basketball arena in Portland, Oregon is no longer requiring it, there's hope for the airline.
It's the last bastion of liberalism in the Western world.
Well, anyway, Adrian, before we get to the topic on everybody's mind, of course, this geopolitical occurrence in Eastern Europe, let's do as we're doing with each of our guests this month, what we've done last week and tonight, what we'll be doing for the next two weeks as well.
Give us your assessment of the scene there where you're at in London, England.
Well, The best way I can assess the political scene in England i i is by saying that uh at present England, the United Kingdom is probably the only country in Europe without a substantial and effective populist nationalist party, as you describe your own radio show.
It's a rather melancholy reflection on my part that 40 years ago I was living and working in France at the time when in those days Jean Marine Le Pen's party first began really to achieve some measure of political success and it was easy to contrast the rather depressing situation in England with the very encouraging situation of France.
Fast forward 40 years on and what do we see?
Last Sunday I spent quite a lot of time watching on YouTube the meeting that Aix de Mour and Marion Maréchal, Jean Marine Le Pen's granddaughter, held in Toulon, which was attended by about 7,000 people.
Toulon isn't an important city.
Its population is well under 200,000.
And that was the kind of meeting they could hold there.
Very well it was with two big names and people who came from all over the southeast of France.
But it does give you some idea of the contrast between situation in England and our nearest neighbour in Europe.
That there you can routinely hold a meeting attended by several thousand people.
In England I think if you held a meeting of that kind you'd be lucky to get a couple of hundred.
And that as I said seven thousand in a provincial town not in Paris, not even in Marseille or Lyon which are much larger cities than Toulon.
So yes England is a country where rather than the United States the two-party system is very very persistent and so far at any rate no one has been successful in creating a long-term alternative to it.
Part of the reason for that was that for very many years a large section of what you call the populist or nationalist right became absolutely obsessed with the idea that the most important thing in the world was that we should leave the European Union, which I have to say was never something that enthused me in the same way as it enthused others.
We've left it now and things haven't really changed very much.
The enthusiast of the European Union told us there'd be about six or seven million unemployed, the whole country would fall into a state of economic collapse and utter ruin.
Well that hasn't happened.
And the enthusiasts for leaving said it would lead to a bright new dawn and that hasn't happened either.
In fact not a lot has changed.
You know the old saying Adrian is that the more things change the more they stay the same right?
Oh yes yes very much so.
So no I wouldn't express any great enthusiasm about the short-term prospects at any rate for any kind of populist nationalist revival in Great Britain in the longer term we shall see what we shall see but for the present the electorate that we would wish to acquire largely supports the present Conservative government.
Very interesting very interesting.
Very interesting question.
I was kind of off the wall if I could, Adrian.
What is the percentage of non-white residents on in the United Kingdom now?
No one knows because our government's lost control of its borders and can't carry out proper censuses.
But I mean, it's also, you need to bear in mind that although the land area of the United Kingdom is small compared to that of the United States of America, population is substantial.
It's a much more densely populated country than most of the U.S., comparable to your north and east coast states, I suppose.
Yeah, Salakara, as they call it.
Yeah, the Washington-New York corridor.
We've got population, well, we think the population is somewhere in the region of 67 or 68 million.
As I say, the government doesn't know, so it can't control our borders.
It has no idea how many people actually live in England.
But when you talk about what proportion of the population of the United Kingdom have origins outside Europe, if I can put it that way, over the whole of the United Kingdom,
which would include areas such as the southwest of England, much of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, where there would be almost, and then we'll pivot to Russia and Ukraine.
Adrian's got some hot takes on that, and we'll learn them.
We'll hear them together.
next.
Stay tuned.
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All right, back with the British barrister.
Well, he's much more than that, of course.
I mean, he has worked, yes, indeed, as a barrister, which we would call that a lawyer, an attorney over here.
A trial attorney.
for some very prestigious firms over there in the UK.
He's very accomplished.
If I'm not mistaken, Adrian, I had a, here it is, yes.
Yes, I do have a bio here.
Well, I'll read it to you then, ladies and gentlemen.
Adrian is a barrister who has worked with prestigious London law firms.
Well, I just said that.
He was educated at Cambridge University and the University of London, where he earned a Master of Laws degree.
You know, all these smart people we have on the program, Keith, like Drew Fraser last week, who over there in Australia also has his Master of Laws degree.
But of all these smart people that we're having on the program, I only wish we could have somebody as smart as Kamala Harris.
Unfortunately, we're stuck with people like Adrian Davis, Tom Fraser, and Tom Sudick.
I have heard that Kamala has a very special skill, but we won't go into that in case there anyone else is.
It was a sequel to her success.
That's late night radio.
My friends in California told me that she had quite the reputation as to the methods by which.
When she's not lying on her back, she's wasting time.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, I brought her up, not necessarily to get into all that, although that's funny.
But let's listen to this, Adrian, and then I'll let you kind of respond.
This is the Vice President of the United States, or so they tell me.
But listen to this, and can you imagine a white nation that this is who is our second in command?
There's American excellence on display.
Well, she breaks down what's going on in Russia and in Ukraine.
And of course, we've talked to a lot of people about that over the course of the last couple of weeks.
But let's see what she has to say.
We'll get Adrian's response.
This is the Vice President of the United States.
Break it down to layman's terms for people who don't understand what's going on and how can this directly affect the people of the United States.
So Ukraine is a country in Europe.
It exists next to another country called Russia.
Russia is a bigger country.
Russia is a powerful country.
Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine.
So basically, that's wrong.
And it goes against everything that we stand for.
Break it down.
Okay.
So, Adrian, that's, you know, listen.
It doesn't get any more.
It's the essence.
I mean, it's just boiled right down to the essence.
Doesn't get any more pressure than that.
That's very profound.
I would assume that United States of America has therefore never attacked any other country in its history, such as, for example, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, some small speck of rock in the Caribbean that used to be a British colony with a population of a few thousand, which was attacked by the United States of America for electing a left-wing government not more than 30 years ago.
Grenado.
Quite remarkable, but I doubt if she knows any of those things.
She might vaguely have an idea that the United States fought a war with Mexico, I suppose, as she comes from California, but I'm not so sure she'd even know that.
Yeah, she sort of set us up for a slam dunk on that one, but that's where we're at.
That's what we're getting over here from the American press.
Your opinion on what's going on?
We've talked about the cause and effect, I think, but I'd certainly love to get your take.
And who are the good guys here?
You know, we were joking this week.
Everybody's a Nazi now.
Russia's all America.
America has lied to both sides.
We've lied to the Russians, and we've lied to the Ukrainians.
So, you know, we're equal opportunity defenders.
Yes, this war is an absolute catastrophe for everyone involved.
I listened to what Tomislav had to say about it with interest, and I must say I was surprised to hear his point of view, bearing in mind how different it is, I think, from 99% of Croatians, particularly Croatian nationalists, actually, who are fanatically pro-Ukrainian in their political views.
he rightly said, there are a significant number of Croatian volunteers fighting in the not very moderate Azov regiment in Mariupol at the moment.
But my view on this is rather different.
I was for a very long time, and I don't repent of this, an advocate of much better relations with Russia, certainly opposed the eastward expansion of NATO, and very opposed to the idea that Russia is some kind of eternal enemy of the West against which we constantly have to be arming and preparing to wage, if not hot war, at any rate, Cold War.
Nevertheless, I think fundamentally the Russian government and particularly the Russian president are to blame for what has happened.
There is absolutely no excuse for attacking a country populated by closely kindred people, smashing up its cities, killing thousands of civilians and laying the whole place waste.
This is the sort of behavior in which President Abraham Lincoln engaged against the southern states, as you will know better than I.
And President Putin's way of showing love for the brotherly people of Ukraine is roughly similar to General Sherman's way of showing love for the people of the state of Georgia.
And it's going to have the same long-term consequences in how the Ukrainians feel about Russia.
It's not surprising, really, is it?
It is a very, very...
On the South...
I'd say this.
I actually think the behavior of the Russian government did worse than that of President Abraham Lincoln in this sense, that Lincoln at least reacted immediately to the secession of the southern states.
The Russians for 30 years recognized Ukrainian independence, then basically changed their mind about it and decided, it would seem at present more or less to snuff it out if they possibly can.
It's rather like saying in 1861, well, we will let the Iring sisters go in peace.
And then in 1890, saying, well, that was a terrible mistake.
We better bring them all back into the Union now by coercion, 30 years on.
It is actually analogous to that.
That's very interesting that you say that.
But I would ask you this.
Is the threat of Ukraine joining NATO, which was, of course, I think the big sticking point, at least from what we have gathered, if that's even true, which I believe it to be, at least somewhat.
Is it a greater threat now than it was 30 years ago?
And of course, Russia 30 years ago was very different than it is.
Well, 30 years ago, Russia, you know, it was a Soviet Union, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
That was one of many.
Ukraine was one of many Soviet socialist republics, but they all spoke with one voice out of Moscow.
And I think America and NATO have been trying to exploit that situation to turn all of these former satellite nations into armed enemies of Russia.
And of course, nobody likes armed enemies at their next-door neighbor.
John Kennedy certainly didn't in the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1967.
He seems to break that down into several factors.
First of all, there is no prospect of, there was no prospect of Ukraine joining NATO before this war.
The reason for that is that it was in long-term conflict with Russia and the pro-Russian, I don't know what you want to call them, statelets, mini-states or whatever, the Russians set up in ethnic Russian regions of eastern Ukraine.
And NATO will not permit a state whose borders are unsettled and which is effectively in a state of chronic war against de facto political entities in its territory to join.
So why?
Then why not?
Why?
And let me play the devil's advocate, Adrian.
Why then did America and Blinken refuse to give a very reasonable written guarantee that Ukraine was not going to be extended an offer of membership in NATO?
Well, that seems very surprising because I have read one of President Biden's more rational tweets in which no doubt was written for him.
You did search for that, didn't you?
Yeah, yeah, well, he was ghost-bitten, which it seems to be what President Biden says is actually very sensible, or what his script writer says for him is very sensible, that NATO is not a member, rather, Ukraine is not a member of NATO,
and that the United States does not propose to get involved with a war with Russia over what is happening in the Ukraine, which is a sensibly semi-isolationist policy that I doubt would be any different under a Trump government.
I suspect if there were a Trump-led United States of America, it would never have come to war because his relationship pursued a better relationship with Russia.
But ultimately, though, you can't take away from the fact that at the beginning of this war, the Russians had controlled the Crimea for eight years and taken it, you could say it next it to Russia or returned it to Russia, depending upon your point of view.
And they had the two de facto Russian enclaves in eastern Ukraine, which were under their control.
They now seem to have embarked on a policy of subjugating at least the eastern half of the Ukraine, which is an enormous amount of territory by armed force, including very, very brutal measures against cities which incidentally have huge ethnic Russian populations, such as Kharkov or Kharkiv, as I'm supposed to call it.
Because I think this is way beyond Lincoln.
This is rather like shelling New York because one or two people there might have had some sympathies with the cousin state forever.
He's reached a level of absolutely destructive war against people who they claim are a brother.
Hold on right there.
Adrian, we'll be right back.
Got to take a hard break.
We'll be on your daily Liberty Newswire.
You're listening to Liberty News Radio, USA Radio News with Kenneth Burns.
A mosque in the Ukrainian port city of Mariupol has reportedly become the latest target of Russian shelling as the invasion continues.
More than 80 people, including children, were sheltering there, according to Ukrainian officials.
If there are any casualties, that number is not known.
The city has already been hard hit by the Kremlin.
The estimated death toll there was more than 1,200.
Meanwhile, Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelensky, continued to encourage his people to resist the Russians.
He said the Kremlin would need to carpet bomb the capital city of Kyiv and kill its residents to take the city.
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Nervousness over Russia's invasion of Ukraine caused a fifth straight losing week for the Dow.
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Back in London we go with Adrian Davis.
And I was just thinking during the break, Adrian, it's been now nearly a month since this conflict started.
And we've sort of moved past here in our coverage on why it started or why we believe it started to where it is now and where it may go tomorrow.
But just sort of looking back at the break as we're having this conversation, it seemed to me that the issue was, I mean, of course, historically you go back, and, of course, that part of the world was Russia before Russia was even Russia.
That part of Ukraine was Moscow before Moscow was Moscow.
Yeah, Rusland.
And of course, for all of American history, that probably until the 90s, that was part of Russia.
Then you had the Russian speakers over there that wanted to be re-embraced by the motherland.
So you had that going on for a while.
And then the color revolution in 2014.
And all of that.
And this whole thing, which I believe was the catalyst, was NATO, you know, if Ukraine could have gotten into NATO or that they wouldn't guarantee that they wouldn't join NATO.
The concern that Putin had about missiles and bioweapons labs even perhaps being put on the border and Ukraine being a NATO puppet and so on and so forth.
But, you know, and again, as one of our listeners in East Tennessee has pointed out, Putin is not flattening Kiev as the U.S. did Baghdad.
He's being very careful there.
Do you agree with any of those takes on the cause and effect of this, or do you believe that none of that was legitimate?
So far as the last of those points is concerned, Putin believes that Kiev, with good reason, is the ancient capital of Russia and the cradle of Russian culture.
So on what basis would he possibly be able to justify to his own people smashing it to pieces?
Surprisingly, he's got away in the eyes of the Russian people doing as much damage to it as he has.
The point about this war is that whereas when the Russians fought in Chechnya, which is manifestly not a European nation, they pretty well destroyed the capital city of Grozny with their artillery in particular.
They got used as an artillery testing range, I suppose, and the whole place afterwards made Hiroshima the day after the bomb look pretty good, actually.
And that was just with conventional weapons.
But no, I said to you, I can very well understand the Russian government's opposition to the eastward expansion of NATO.
That was a very bad idea for all sorts of reasons.
There was some years ago, the then Polish foreign minister asked his president, who was an advocate of expanding NATO eastward and receiving American missiles in Poland, how long he thought the Americans would remain in Europe.
And the president said maybe 20 years, maybe 30 years, maybe 50 years, to which his foreign minister wisely answered, well, what's 20 or 30 or 50 years in the life of our nation or the Russian nation?
We are both peoples who have had states for over a thousand years.
The Americans will be in Europe for a small amount of time.
Russia will be our neighbor forever.
Now, that is a political reality which indeed the Ukrainians would have done well to consider.
I'm not suggesting that the Ukrainian government has pursued a wise policy at all times.
Actually, the fundamental problem of the Ukraine is that it is not an ethno-linguistic reality in this sense.
About a third of the population of the Ukraine is not Ukrainian.
That is, wherever that situation exists in the world, regardless of the peoples involved, whether it is in Europe or Africa or Asia or any other continent, it is a recipe for trouble.
And the same has happened in the Ukraine.
The Ukraine's problem, in a way, is that the Ukrainian linguistic region is smaller than the territorial boundaries of the Ukraine.
It contains a large minority that does not identify as Ukrainian.
Adrian Keith Alexander, let me ask you this, if I could.
Do you see the result of this war being two Ukrainian nations with the boundary of the Niper River?
I have no idea what the outcome is going to be separate and a what now?
I have no idea what the outcome will be.
I do know.
That has been proposed by people over here that there is going to be an east and west Ukraine, west Ukraine being a buffer state, east Ukraine basically being annexed by Russia.
I'm just throwing that out there because it's...
That may well be the outcome.
As you may or may not know, that more or less was the situation that existed between 1920 and 1940 because the Poles had annexed a large chunk of the Western Ukraine after their war with Russia in 1920.
And indeed, in those days, Lvov, all the Vivas were now supposed to call it, was a Polish city.
The relationships between the different peoples there are extremely complex.
Historically, the relationship between the Poles and the Russians has been rather the Poles and Ukrainians has been very, very bad.
The Poles ruled the Ukraine as a sort of feudal aristocracy, treating the ordinary people very much as their serfs.
I had a very good friend who is a Polish lady and daughter of a very grand Polish family who owned extensive estates around Lvov.
It would be fair to say that her attitude towards the Ukrainians was similar to that of an antebellum plantation owner to his field hands.
More Yankees than southerners.
Well, worse, probably actually, worse.
Now the complexities of the relationships between different national and religious groups in Eastern Europe is extraordinary.
I do not claim to have so much wisdom that I could find a just solution to this problem.
But the problem is one essentially which we would all as recognize that it is a good thing for a people to have a national state in which they form either the whole of the population or so large and so absolute a majority that their position in it is impregnable.
That is not the position of the Ukrainians within the boundaries of what used to be called the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic because they form little less than two-thirds of its population.
So they are a large majority but they are not what you might call a supermajority or a majority so overwhelming that their position cannot be challenged and in the eastern Ukraine linguistically the entire region was Russian.
The trouble with what is going on at the moment as I say is that it is not an attempt to uphold the rights of Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine.
Their principal center was a city which is now fashioned called Kharkiv but everyone calls Kharkov.
That is a city which was very pro-Russian in sentiment and very Russian in language and it has been smashed to pieces by the Russian Air Force.
It is extraordinary, absolutely extraordinary to be doing this to a city that was essentially sympathetic to Russia.
Well Russia doesn't I say this as someone who was always being criticized as an apologist for Putin because I recognize that he was a Russian patriot who wanted to lift his country up out of the humiliating situation in which it found itself in the 1990s and had done some things towards that end.
What he's done now seems to me to have undone 25 years of good work in basically 25 days.
It's appalling.
While we were speaking, I looked up a marvellous quotation from Neville Chamberlain, our most unfairly treated prime minister.
And this is something that he said after the Germans tore up the Munich Accords in 1938 and seized everything that was left of Czechoslovakia, the chetlands themselves, Bohemia, Moravia.
Chamberlain said that section of opinion in this country holds that it is impossible to get on terms with the dictators.
The latter certainly seem to do their best to justify this point of view.
Well, that quote could be transposed exactly to what the Russian president has done now.
He has made it almost impossible for all the people in the West, including myself, who wanted a much better relationship with Russia and respected him personally, to justify their positions.
You just can't do it.
Okay, Adrian, Keith, are you surprised that the Russian army has not taken control of a larger portion of Ukraine than they have in this past month?
I think a lot of people have been very surprised that it hasn't, you know, they haven't rolled through like German blitzkrieg in France.
Let me answer that.
First of all, the Ukrainian army has obviously fought with great courage and has defended its national territory to the best of its ability and therefore with courage and honor for their country, for which you should respect them.
That is one reason why the Russian army has not apparently done very well.
Another reason which might disappoint Western opponents of Russia is that it all depends which front you're looking at.
Hold on right there.
I'm going to bring it back to you right there on that point, Adrian.
And I was actually at the car repair shop today, and they were talking about a pincer movement that Russia is now supposing.
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Back with one more segment and how quickly this hour, this whole program has gone so far tonight with two great guests, Tom Sunich in Croatia and Adrian Davis in England, but London itself, the capital, the capital of the entire empire.
as it's called now.
It's not now, but it was a different thing, and we remember it for what it was and what it can be again rather than what it is now.
But in any event, we do want to talk a little bit more with you about the question that was previously posed about, you know, should they be further along in this?
Should it have been taken in a couple of days?
But I've got to ask you this, Adrian.
Go on.
Well, I just want to reset it very quickly, very quickly.
I want to dumb it down as Kamala Harris might could appreciate.
And this is just from my perspective.
You can't do that.
My perspective is when I first started to look at this thing before we went into the history and some of the things.
Listen, if you want a really excellent primer, ladies and gentlemen, go back a couple of weeks ago.
It was the last show of February and listen to Mark Weber's take on it.
That was a fantastic show.
It had just started, this conflict, and he and Kevin McDonnell were back to back on that one for sort of some of the background on it.
Now, we've moved past that.
But when I first started looking at this, Adrian, my take was, okay, I see the entire global media against Putin.
I see the criminally corrupt heads of states of all of these Western nations against Putin.
There's Jewish power and influence is against Putin.
They're always against us.
And then I see, well, Globo Homo versus Russia.
You have now, I think, Facebook, TikTok, Coca-Cola, McDonald's, Disney, Netflix, Starbucks, MasterCard and Visa even have cut off Russia.
So, I mean, is it too simplistic to say, hey, the enemy of my enemy is my friend here?
It's all of these people who were always so much against white patriots, now against Russia.
Russia must be on the right side of this thing in some way.
Jewish power and influence.
Again, where is the question?
I think the way to understand it correctly is that ultimately some people draw the analogy between Putin and Hitler.
And no doubt that's designed to anger Putin, whose own father was, as you may know, one of the Russian defenders of Leningrad in the Second World War and was very badly wounded in action against the Germans in that absolutely terrible siege.
But actually there are some analogies.
Just as Hitler was ultimately a German chauvinist who was unable to accept the rights of other people to their own national state, so Putin is really a great Russian chauvinist.
He is unable to accept that the Ukrainian people do not consider themselves to be Russian.
That is, to his way of thinking, an aberration or false consciousness on their part.
And the problem there is, or the problem from the Russian perspective, is that at least those Ukrainians whose native language is Ukrainian, not Russian, do not regard themselves as being the same people.
And this is a tragic situation which repeats itself in various countries in the world at different times.
But that, to my mind, is the root cause of the problem.
In this respect, Putin is very, very far from unique.
Tsarist Russia would have had exactly the same point of view on the Ukraine.
There's a very famous novel by Mikhail Bulgakov, who was a very celebrated Russian novelist called The White Guard, a story of the fighting between the different factions in Russia after the revolution.
One of the points that comes very strongly out of that book is how much the so-called white Russians, the anti-communist fighters after the 1917 revolution, despised, loathe, and despise the Ukrainians, whom they hated.
The first Ukrainian state in its modern form, indeed in any form, emerged in 1917 under the protection of the Austrians and the Germans after they had defeated Russia and imposed the humiliating peace of Brestlipovsk upon the Russians.
That state survived the defeat of the Central Powers in 1918 by a couple of years.
So it's a complexity of the situation that was absolutely extraordinary.
The white Russians were fighting the Reds.
The different left-wing factions were all fighting one another.
There was a powerful anarchist movement in the Ukraine, which the communists later suppressed for great brutality.
One has to say that's probably one of their less bad decisions.
The Poles were fighting the Ukrainians at one point, then with them at another.
It is a typical Eastern European kaleidoscope of factors, but ultimately, to a great Russian, as he would say, patriot, as the Ukrainians would say, chauvinist, the fundamental problem is that for him, for Putin, the Ukrainian nation does not exist.
And if people believe that they are Ukrainians, they are suffering from a false consciousness, in his view.
Well, Adrian, let me say this, if I could.
In terms of a national chauvinist, I don't think anybody could match Churchill for that characterization.
Let me ask you about Ukraine and Russia and the relationship.
Do you think that Ukraine is analogous to the American South and Russia to a larger nation?
Let me tell you about that.
Ethnicity is a matter of fact.
I can't become a Nigerian or Japanese or Chinese or whatever by thinking that I am.
You are what you are.
You have your heritage that comes down to you for your ancestors.
So ethnicity is a matter of fact.
But nationality is ultimately a matter of opinion.
It is a social construct.
In 1776, your distant ancestors decided that they wished to overthrow the British crown and 13 colonies would declare themselves to be independent.
As you probably know, about a third of the population of the 13 colonies strongly disagreed with that and were loyalists and pro-British.
And some of them famously assisted the British Army to capture New York from one General Washington.
In the state of Georgia, I gathered that Loyalists formed something approaching a majority.
Now, in 1861, the southern states decided that they had a separate identity, a separate, if you like, collective national identity that was different from that of the northern states, and they would leave the Union and form their own confederacy.
President Lincoln did not agree with that view, and a large section of the population of the north evidently was willing to follow Lincoln in waging a particularly bloody and horrific war to impose that view on the south.
There are undoubtedly similarities.
Indeed, the differences between the Ukraine and Russia are greater than the differences between the southern states and the northern states, insofar as Ukrainian, although a related Slavonic language, is not the same language as Russian.
And Russian speakers do not, as I understand it, follow Ukrainian terribly well.
All Slavonic languages are related, but the relationship between Ukrainian and Russian is not such that they are mutually comprehensible.
Is Ukrainian going the way of Gaelic, or is it no, Ukrainian is a lively language with many, many millions of speakers.
Gaelic is confined to a tiny region of the west of Ireland, an even smaller region in Scotland, where it's a rather picturesque survival.
But that's not the case with Ukrainian at all.
So it is, I think the whole situation is just absolutely tragic.
And no good will come of it to anyone, ultimately.
I've got another quotation for you.
like quotations and this one I found from the Russian war minister in 1914, General Sokomlinov, who advised the Tsar that war between Russia and Austria was inevitable and that being so it would be more profitable for us to begin it as soon as possible and the war would bring Russia and the Romanov dynasty nothing but good.
The Tsar listened to that advice.
And we all know what happened to the Tsar three years later.
I'm sure he wasn't blessing Sokomnikov's name as he sat waiting to be executed with his whole family by the murderous Reds.
The fact is that in August 1914, following the idiot Sokomnikov's advice seemed like a good idea to the Tsar.
Wonder's quite a bit.
Well, let me give you a quote if I could, Adrian, but he's like that.
Robert Lansing, the Secretary of State under Woodrow Wilson, said, popular or national sovereignty, what a calamity it is that those words were ever uttered.
They raise expectations that can never be satisfied.
They'll be the cause of endless wars.
It would have been better for mankind had they never been uttered.
Well, I suppose it rather depends what you mean by popular national sovereignty.
Both people do not wish to be ruled by foreigners, by and large.
So to that extent, I think the idea of national sovereignty is not a bad thing.
But the idea that every sort of collective sovereignty can be exercised by the whole people of a large state is obviously absurd.
That simply doesn't work.
So that's rather a different argument.
Adrian, we're running out of time, and I could sit here and listen to you and Tom offer your commentary and analysis, and it's been brilliant.
But I want to give you the opportunity.
You've got your hands in a lot of pies.
Plug anything you want to plug.
Any organization, any publication, anything you're up to that we ought to know about there in London?
Well, I didn't get to be doing any plugging for anything in particular.
As I said to you earlier, we are a long way in England from creating anything comparable to the nationalist populist parties that exist in other European countries.
I wish that we were further down that road than we are, but in fact, we are not.
And the most that could be done, I think, effectively in England at the moment is to spread some ideas and give people something to think about that might lead them to conclusions different from those that our liberal and cosmopolitan establishment would wish them to draw.
This is the point of this exercise during our special series here this month is to check on the health of our racial brothers and sisters throughout the West and in Eastern Europe and even in places as far-flung as Australia were last week.
And so we appreciate you, Adrian, for coming on.
I know, of course, the situation in Russia is dominating the conversation with all of our guests, but it is interesting to hear the varied perspectives that our guests have on this topic that certainly could impact us all in very serious and severe ways if it gets any more out of hand.
Thank you, Adrian.
Thank you for staying up so late.
Look forward to seeing you again soon.
Keith and I will be back in the third hour to continue this conversation, and then we'll share with you a few announcements and other pressing affairs before charting the course for the remainder of this month's special series.