Jan. 11, 2020 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the political cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the first hour of tonight's live broadcast.
The second and third hours of tonight's show will be focused on the situation in Iran, what has taken place there thus far over the course of the past few days and beyond, and what still may be there to come.
And we have two incredible guests tonight who have spent time in Iran.
Unlike, how did you put it, Keith, just a moment ago?
The talking heads on the major news networks.
We actually have people here that have personal experience in the nation of Iran with Iranians, both great and small.
You know, people that are highly placed in the government and also average everyday Iranians.
And that includes our first guest, the incomparable Mark Weber, the director of the Institute for Historical Review.
Mark is, of course, an accomplished historian, lecturer, current affairs analyst, and author.
He was educated in the United States and Europe and holds a master's degree in modern European history.
He's returning to the show this hour to discuss, as we mentioned, the developing situation in Iran.
I just happened to revisit a couple of his articles at ihr.org that documented his trips to Iran, where he met with former President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and also spoke to a sold-out conference.
He met with, as you said, Keith, Iranians big and small.
He has spent time in that Middle Eastern nation.
Great insight to come this hour on what's going on over there exclusively here on TPC.
Mark, welcome back to the show.
So glad you could be here tonight to join us in this very important conversation.
Thank you very much for having me back on, James.
It's always a pleasure, and I'm glad to be on your show.
Well, Mark, thank you.
And as we mentioned, you have visited Iran three times.
You also spent time in Turkey and Morocco, two other Muslim countries.
You said that during your visits, you met and spoke with a range of Iranian officials.
Now, you met with ordinary, quote-unquote, Iranians as well.
But your basic view of Iran, as well as U.S.-Iran relations and the American role in the Middle East generally, was already well in place even before you visited the country.
But you have been there.
Let's first start there, before we get to the current unpleasantness.
Let's talk about your experiences in Iran, meeting the people, experiencing to the extent that you could the culture.
And what is their viewpoint towards Americans once they get to know a real American life?
Take us behind the scenes.
Yeah.
One of the most surprising things about Iran, and it's not just my view, Rick Steves was in Iran, Nicholas Christoph of the New York Times, and everyone who goes there is really struck by how pro-American Iranians are.
Surprisingly so.
There's a great deal of sympathy and affection for America and for the United States, but there's a great deal, of course, unhappiness with the warlike and belligerent policies of the United States.
But Iranians in general are very friendly to the United States.
They're very familiar with American movies.
They see a lot of American culture.
In fact, if anything, they might have even an overly rosy view of the United States based on motion pictures or so forth.
But there's a great potential for better relations with Iran if the United States can get its act together.
Yeah, there are crowds.
They're shouting death to America.
They're very unhappy with going back for many years.
In 1953, the United States and Britain overthrew the government of Iran and installed the Shah, who had fled the country.
They're very unhappy, of course, with the policy of sanctions and especially the many threats by the Trump administration against Iran.
Iranians or Persians are a people that goes back for thousands of years.
They are very proud.
They have a very long heritage that they're very proud of.
And it's very important to understand that Iran is very different than the other countries of the Middle East.
It's not an Arab country.
If anything, there's a long-standing kind of animosity or hostility between Arabs and Persians.
But Persians or Iranians are very proud.
Just in the last few weeks, there's been these demonstrations back and forth.
Yeah, there's a lot of unhappiness in Iran with aspects or policies of the government.
But if the United States, as it did recently, kills a major Iranian figure, Iranians will rally around that.
They're very nationalistic in that way.
And they are furious that the United States would take out this General Suleimani who was killed at Baghdad airport a few last week or the other week.
And American officials should not deceive themselves that they can go into Iran and, as Pompeo or Trump seem to imply, be welcomed as great liberators.
That's not going to happen.
If anything, they will rally around the flag, so to speak, if they're threatened.
Iran is a country of more than 80 million people.
It's a lot bigger country, a more extensive country, more better developed country than Iraq or Syria or some of the other countries the United States has been involved, Afghanistan, certainly, or Pakistan.
And the United States, and this is true of everyone who's familiar with the region, has warned the United States about the very great dangers of a war with that country and how terribly costly it will be.
I think Trump understands that.
He's backed away from war.
But at the same time, his policies have been very hostile to Iran, and that's very dangerous, not only for the region, but for the world.
And in that, the United States has almost no sympathy except in Israel and to a certain extent in Saudi Arabia.
Otherwise, the whole rest of the world regards this very strong American hostility, especially by the Trump administration against Iran, as very misguided and misplaced and dangerous.
Well, do they understand, Mark, this is Keith Alexander, do they understand the extent to which our foreign policy is in the Thrall of Jewish power and influence over here, and do they understand that most Americans do not want these wars in the Middle East?
Yes and no.
I gave a talk to an audience of students, of some 400 students of Tehran University, and I spoke about the role.
It's very hard for Iranians or for anyone to quite understand why America has a policy in the Middle East, and if not in the world, dictated not by the best interest of America or humanity, but based on the interest in the agenda of a very small minority of the American public, of the American population, that is, of the pro-Israel Zionist lobby.
And it's very difficult.
Well, the explanation is this, though, Mark.
You know, you can just say Jewish interests provide millions of dollars for every politician running for national office, Congress, Senate, president.
But in return, they get trillion-dollar wars for the benefit of Israel, plus Jewish people get all the plumb positions in the authority.
You know, I'm sure somebody's money talks.
Yeah, but money talks and B.S. Walks would be the short and succinct way to say it.
Well, what they don't understand is why Americans would let money trump and be more important than their national identity and interest.
That's what's going on.
Hold on, right there.
That is a great place to pause.
Our first stoppage of the hour.
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Good God, y'all!
What is it going for?
Favorite song.
Well, you know, I'll tell you, I don't know if I necessarily agree with all the sinners in that song.
I do believe in a just war, what I don't believe is in current wars in the Middle East.
We've got what's been going on since the Second World War at least, and that is wars that are not in the interest of, well, you could certainly go even before that.
You could certainly go to the First World War.
You could probably go back to win, Keith.
Well, you could go back to the War of 1812.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, I tell you what, that's probably it.
And what we need to understand, too, about these wars, you know, if the Democrats are looking for an impeachable offense, I'm sure the founding fathers would have thought that waging war without a declaration of war by Congress would have been an impeachable offense.
The problem is, every president since Harry Truman has done just that without a peep of or barely a murmur of protest from the legislature.
I don't think Congress has declared war since the Second World War, and even then only against Japan, which was the back door into Germany, as we know.
Anyway, back to Mark Weber, the director of the Institute for the Historical Review.
We're talking about the U.S.-Iran clash, and of course, Mark has spent time over there.
He has met with Iranian citizens all the way up to the Iranian president at the time, and he has lectured there.
And I think it is insightful to have people on this broadcast who have actually been to Iran.
I mean, that certainly puts them ahead of spoke with Iran, put them ahead of everybody that's talking for CNN, ABC, NBC, and CBS.
So what's your basic?
Your basic view of what has happened over the course of the last two weeks, Mark.
Let's fast forward to that.
Well, Trump has edged up the stakes in this great conflict and, of course, enraged not only people in Iran, but also in Iraq.
When the attack took place at the airport, Baghdad airport, it wasn't just an Iranian military commander who was killed.
It was also several high-ranking Iraqi commanders.
And as a result, the Iraqi parliament voted overwhelmingly to tell the Americans to get out of their country.
I mean, one thing that all of this does is just convince more people all around the world and in the Middle East that the United States is acting like a bully and that it's not trustworthy.
And for all the talk about democracy and how we respect other countries, it just falls apart when the push comes to shove.
I mean, it's astonishing.
After the Iraqi parliament said, America, we want you to leave, Trump responded by saying, we're not going to leave unless you pay us money for it.
And if you force us out, we're going to put sanctions on your country.
It's just astonishing because this is what President promised he was going to get out of these kind of wars.
I mean, the larger question, and this is something that I think people have to keep in mind.
It isn't about whether Soleimani's a bad guy or a good guy or how bad he is.
It's a larger question than Tucker Carlson, Patrick Buchanan, Ron Paul, all these men like that try to keep us focused on what the heck are we even doing in the Middle East.
Why are there huge crowds all over the Middle East that shout death to America?
They're not shouting death to China.
They're not even shouting death to Russia.
Why are they so furious at the United States?
Why around the world do many people, so many people resent this?
Why are Americans?
Because we're proxies for Israel.
And that's the short and sweet answer to all that.
That's what we are.
We have become the bully big brother of Israel in the Middle East.
And we have sided with Israel over all other nations there.
And don't tell me it's about oil because if it was about oil, why would we align ourselves with the one nation in the Middle East that doesn't have a drop of oil on it?
This is, you know, and think about this assassination of this general.
How much more egregious that would be than, for example, the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, Franz Ferdinand that started World War I.
That was done by an independent actor.
And that, you know, set off that powder keg.
Of course.
We have our nation coming in and assassinating generals for other sovereign nations.
Well, then as we saw Keith Netanyahu, you know, distancing himself from the whole thing.
Israel had nothing to do with this.
And see, that's, you know, why in the world, why can't Trump take offense at Netanyahu for that great slight rather than Iran that's basically trying to minimize the problem, obviously, by not hitting our troops and causing casualties.
But, you know, it's incredible to people not only in the Middle East, but in America, as to just how, you know, I think it was Mark Levin recently that said that Trump was our first Jewish president.
And I think he's right.
Well, Mark mentions also something I want to toss it back to Mark right now, but with regard to Baghdad's Iraq's response to what happened in Iran, and that was another Buchanan column in the last few days.
If Baghdad wants us gone, let's go.
And they gave us the free pass to get out, but I don't know if we're going to take it, Mark.
We're not going to take it.
Well, Trump promised we would get the troops out of Afghanistan.
He's keeping the troops in Syria.
By the way, there's no legal basis even under American law, much less international law for troops in Syria.
We shouldn't be involved in that conflict.
But it's very clear that for years, Israel has had a very big interest and has emphasized over and over their desire to have the United States overthrow any government and any regime in the Middle East that Israel regards as hostile or dangerous to its interests.
But this war is not our war.
You know, when Israel was, it's astonishing the political leaders here will talk about how Israel is vital to American interests.
No, it's not.
It wasn't even a country until 1948.
America got along somehow for a couple of centuries before Israel was even a country.
And if Israel disappeared, life would go on.
The world would continue spinning around the taxes.
Many other countries are far more important to the United States than Israel, and we don't guarantee their existence.
We don't go to war and make their enemies our enemies on their behalf.
Anyway, all this is so obvious.
There's a world consensus on this.
It's transparent.
Just a few weeks ago, Donald Trump spoke at an Israeli-American conference, and along with him, by the way, was the most wealthy donor to the Republican Party and to his campaign in 2016, Merriam and Sheldon Adelson.
But he said something astonishing.
He said that Americans have to love Israel even more than they already do.
He said American Jews should love Israel even more.
Now, imagine if Trump were to say, Mexican Americans have to love Mexico more.
Or, well, it's just astonishing that people accept this as somehow normal, that the United States has this bizarre, one-sided relationship with Israel that it has with no other country in the world.
It would be considered crazy if Donald Trump or any politician were to tell Chinese Americans, you have to love China even more.
No, they'd say, well, that's crazy.
And it's just as absurd to tell Americans that they've got to love a foreign country even more than they already do, that we supply with billions of dollars each year and have gone to war on their behalf.
All of this is very difficult for foreigners to understand how this works and how it's possible for what's supposedly the most powerful country in the world to be guided around and tricked around by a very, very small minority of its population and by a foreign country.
Well, it's easy to understand for us because Rothschild said he'd much rather be the king of the exchequer than the king of whatever nation it is.
And that's how they've controlled Europeans basically since the Middle Ages.
But are you familiar with the clean break memorandum?
Yes, of course.
I mean, okay, well, this is all that's all the explanation there is.
They want to replace that clean break memorandum written by Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Pearl, Douglas Fife, and Fromm basically said that we need wholesale regime change in the Middle East, had exceptions for Saudi Arabia and Jordan, and even people that were supposed to be friendly.
Well, the only two, that was in 1995, and they've gotten rid of all of those leaders from 1995 except in Syria and Iran.
And that explains the whole thing as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, but Keith, you're leaving out something in a sense.
Why is it that Americans put up with this?
Yeah, sure, people have lots of money and clout and so forth, but the fact that Americans tolerate this is astonishing.
It's hard to imagine any other country, even one in which there's a group this powerful, being tolerated like this for as long as we have.
Well, that's because, guys, guys, guys, hold on.
My friend Mark Weber, IHR.org.
We've got him for 30 more minutes.
Stay tuned.
You don't want to miss a second of it.
We'll be right back.
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President Trump is again talking about an airstrike that took out one of the top terrorists in the world.
With the details, here's USA Radio Networks, Wendy King.
President Trump said Qassam Soleimani was killed because he had an imminent attack planned against a U.S. embassy.
But on Fox News, he now says there was more than one embassy being targeted.
I can reveal that I believe it would have been four embassies.
And I think that probably Baghdad already started.
They were really amazed that we came in with that kind of a force.
We came in with very powerful force and drove them out.
American and Russian Navy ships narrowly avoided collision after the U.S. destroyer was aggressively approached by a Russian spy ship in the northern Arabian Sea.
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The video released on Friday shows the two ships getting within 60 yards of each other.
A similar incident happened between American and Russian Navy ships in June.
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Well, unlike a lot of the national news networks, as Keith mentioned, we're talking with a gentleman tonight, and he is that and so much more.
A sharpest attack, Mark Weber, of the Institute for Historical Review, who has spent extensive time in Iran, met with the president of Iran, lectured in Iran.
He knows the Iranian people.
And, you know, we are opposed to this unjust war that serves none of America's vital interests.
Not to say that we're not opposed to just wars, but there is a difference.
And Mark, I guess you heard as well as I did the network news break right there.
And, you know, hearing Trump now compared to the rhetoric we heard from candidate Trump just a few years ago, I have to wonder.
And all I can do is wonder at what happened.
I mean, did Trump, were those his instincts in 2016?
And then after he became elected president, he learned who the real boss is in Washington.
And the situation with that general there, I envy the Iranians that.
They had a figure that the entire nation could rally behind because they are an homogenous people, an homogenous nation.
They could rally behind a single figure.
We could not do that in America anymore.
So even though that general was assassinated, at least they could, as a nation, mourn him.
We don't have a guy like that.
So anyway, Mark, take it any direction you'd like.
What happened with the candidate Trump think he's going to get us out of these nonsensical conflicts in the Middle East?
And there's been any number of tweets and audio clips we could draw from him prior to 2016 cementing that case.
I've got our website, one video clip of him in 2011 and also in 2012. in which he was complaining that Obama might get us into a war with Iran and how stupid that would be.
Well, okay, well, what happened?
I mean, the biggest answer, probably, I don't want to be too cynical about it, is that by far the largest donors to his election campaign in 2016 and his biggest donors and for the Republican Party are Sheldon, Adelson, and people around him, Marcus, Singer.
These are all very, very wealthy, pro-Israel Jewish billionaires who have made sure to support candidates, including Trump, that are going to support their interests.
And Trump, like Hillary Clinton, who gets her main base of support is on the other side, but also from people who are very pro-Israel.
They're not going to jeopardize that support.
And it's a conversation.
Well, also, Mark, his primary advisor is his son-in-law, his Jewish son-in-law, and his daughter, who's married to him, who's converted to Judaism.
He decided that's who his advisor is.
I'm not very impressed.
That's what I mean.
That's why he's so pro-Israel, though.
Well, no, I mean, no, I don't think that's an adequate explanation.
He could very well surround himself by advisors and choose people who have a very different point of view.
But he doesn't do that.
His son-in-law isn't just his son-in-law.
Trump made him the point man for his so-called super deal to end the Israeli-Palestine issue.
It's not just that he's a son-in-law.
He's given him authority, responsibility, administration, actually much to the chagrin of the intelligence community in Washington because he blabs too much to other people.
But anyway, the point is Trump has, remember, most of his life, he was a Democrat.
He supported Democrats, not Republican.
He's not a man with a coherent worldview.
He would like America to be powerful and big and strong and prosperous the way it was back in the 50s, I think.
And beyond that, he doesn't have a very clear sense about America's place or American society.
That's right.
Iran is a more cohesive country.
It's overwhelmingly Persian or Iranian.
And that gives them a solidity that we do not have in this country.
In fact, the astonishing thing is the one politician that American political figures of both parties applaud the loudest is Netanyahu, not any American political figure.
Netanyahu gets more raving applause from our Congress than he does from his own parliament.
And that's an absolutely pathetic display of who has real power and influence here in American political life.
Well, you know, Mark, really the best thing was right.
I was about to make this comment right before the last break we had.
The fact that we're here basically on a shoestring trying to make commentary by raising money in order to do it.
If we, you know, people that have our ideas, that have a truthful and accurate assessment of what's going on, we'd be banished from the mainstream.
They're not going to put Mark Weber or James Edwards or Keith Alexander as commentators from CBS, NBC, PBS.
That's the control the Jewish power and influence has over so many institutions.
Well, I want to ask Mark quickly about the leftist opposition to this war.
So the left is actually saying the right things about the recent activity over there from the United States perspective.
But Obama was up to the same shenanigans and the same monkeys, and they certainly didn't have it then.
I mean, they oppose it because it's just something that Trump's doing.
Whatever Trump did, whether he took action or no action, they would oppose it.
Of course, yeah, we've heard this, that Trump opposed the 2015 nuclear deal signed by most of the big countries of the world with Iran, and Trump opposes it supposedly because he doesn't like the fact that this was the highlight of Obama's foreign policy.
If that's true, it's a very sad commentary on Trump, that he would put personal feelings ahead of what's good for the country, what's good for the world.
I mean, you know, back to Iran.
I mean, Iran has, yeah, it's not a democratic country in our sense, but it does have elections.
And in their elections, the person who gets the most votes actually becomes the president, not the person who sometimes, in our system, who gets the fewer number of votes, becomes the president.
And sometimes the elections are a surprise.
A number of times in recent years, the person who's been elected as president has surprised all the pundits and people who are predicting what was going to happen.
The press is within limits.
It's very robust.
I mean, people can be very critical.
And ordinary Iranians are very free and very quick to voice their unhappiness with this or that policy.
Many people don't like the fact that it's a religious state.
They wish it was more of a national state.
Having said that, there is a very, very strong sense that their version of Islam and their government, it's their government.
And they don't want anybody else telling them how to do it.
Imagine if China came in and said, you know, we're going to overthrow the U.S. government because you've got an electoral college that isn't really as democratic as it ought to be.
We'd say, well, it's not up to you, buddy.
It's our system.
That's the way we have it.
And we're going to do it that way.
It's not America's place to tell other countries.
And we should have learned that from the Iraq war.
That was the obvious lie that was told to the American public in 2003 when we invaded and occupied Iraq and were told that, oh, everybody's going to welcome the United States as the great liberators.
Well, in comes the government and the government now that's in place telling America, get out.
You're causing more trouble than you're worth in the country.
And this is also what happened in Lebanon.
Free elections in Lebanon, the largest single political bloc in that country is Hezbollah.
It's supported by Iran.
It's very anti-American and very unhappy with Israel.
But the United States, it's all these points that we're making and that have made many mothers, they're made by people, everyone who knows anything about the Middle East, who knows much about Iran or the dynamics.
But our political leaders tell these just fantastically stupid lies about the reality not only of Iran, but of the Middle East and so forth.
And Trump, unfortunately, is one of them in that way.
And again, this is an example, one of many of the great contrast between what he promised as a candidate and what he's actually delivered as president.
Well, look, Mark, this is Keith again.
Not everybody is upset with the death of General Soleimani.
I understand ISIS is tickled pink about it.
What does that show?
Of course.
I mean, see, the the American media gives the impression that the big country fighting ISIS is the United States.
No, the heavy lifting has been done in Syria by the Syrian army backed by Russia and Iran, not the United States.
The United States only has, I mean, it has troops in these countries.
But the biggest factor against it, if the United States was really interested in eliminating terrorism, it would be allied with Iran.
Look, Iran is ISIS and Taliban are enemies of Iran, not allies.
And this false impression is given by Pompeo and by other American leaders to confuse the American public, who, for the most part, can't make head or tail of the whole thing anyway.
Only a minority of Americans can even find Iran on a map.
True enough.
And it's, you know, I don't see how we get out of this box with Jewish power and influence basically determining both our domestic policy and our foreign policy based on their cultural Marxist ways where they've taken over all these institutions.
Well, we'll see if we can find the solution after this break.
We're going to be able to get to the next Mark.
We got a segment left.
With my good friend and yours, Mark Weber, ihr.org, the Institute for Historical Review.
And we're giving you the truth the network refused to use here on the Liberty News Radio Network.
And we'll be right back.
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And it made it easier to trademark.
Now, did I tell you that the letters SCH still make the shh sound?
As in all those American food producers saying, shh, let's keep it really quiet that our product is kosher certified.
Think about it.
Nearly one century of kosher certification, and hardly anyone outside Exclusive Observers knows that most packaged food and kitchen products are literally certified by religious intermediaries.
Well, because you, consumer, are indirectly paying for this.
The Coach Certified app is here to make kosher certification awareness an inclusive matter for people of all faiths and identities.
And it even boasts a unique database of products not kosher certified.
We call that NKC.
Start naming it.
It's fun.
NKC, not kosher certified.
Now, to confuse our audience even more, we put a question mark at the end of our name.
And that really cinched our trademark approval.
It relates to the website where you can begin your new shopping behavior, thekosherquestion.com.
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Our president will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate.
He's weak and he's ineffective.
So the only way he figures that he's going to get re-elected, and as sure as you're sitting there, is to start a war with Iran.
Now, okay, so that was, of course, Mark, I think what you were referring to in the last segment.
That was Donald Trump.
Candidate Trump.
No, that was even prior to that.
That was Donald Trump in 2011.
Only President Trump could have administered the way candidate Trump ran his campaign.
But it is interesting.
And Keith, you were talking about in the last break about how George W. Bush, before his election in 2000, while I was cutting my teeth with Pat Buchanan, he said that we needed to instill a humbler foreign policy in the Middle East.
And then once he got elected, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Fife, Richard Pearl got in there and had him reading Natan Sharonsky before they let him go to sleep every day.
Well, it seems like these Republican presidents learn after they become elected that the new boss is the same as the oldest.
Well, not just that.
It doesn't matter who the president is.
The Clean Break Memorandum has been followed by Clinton, by George W. Bush, by Obama, and now Trump.
Whoever holds that office is going to follow it like it's the gospel.
Well, anyway, here's what I want to ask Mark, where we go from here and where we are now.
So we know what happened.
And Ramsey Paul, who was on this show last week, our first show of 2020, he made this comment on Twitter.
It looks like Iran has made a symbolic attack designed to save face after the assassination of their general.
Hopefully Trump will claim victory, no casualties, best military ever, et cetera, and not escalate.
Both Trump and Iran can claim victory and we can avoid a war.
As it stands right now, and it could change tomorrow.
It could change tonight.
Mark, that's how it appears to be.
Trump has done this once before already with some interventions over there and has backed away from a full-scale war.
We'll be safe until the Jews want something else.
Well, no, I mean, no, it appears as though that's where we stand right now.
Yeah, that's right.
I think, James and Keith, that's right.
Right now, there is an opportunity.
Iran has responded in a way to give that everybody can keep their face, so to speak.
They don't seem to be humiliated.
But it's unclear what Trump wants.
It's unclear what he wants.
He says what he wants is to make sure Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons.
Well, that's what the 2015 nuclear deal did.
That's exactly what it was for.
Iran agreed to very intrusive inspections to guarantee, as they said, they're not going to build nuclear weapons.
And in return, they wanted and were given better trade arrangements with the rest of the world, including the United States.
Trump abrogated, canceled that agreement, even though he has no legal authority to do that.
I say that because that agreement is a United Nations Security Council resolution that's binding on all member states of the UN.
Now, some people don't care about the international law, be that as it may.
But anyway, the point is, it's unclear what Trump wants.
It seems like his inner circle of some of them want to really overthrow the government of Iran.
But that's not what Trump says he wants.
He says he just wants a deal.
I'll say this, though.
In Iran, any leader who openly says to Trump, well, you're right.
I guess we'll just sit down and we'll just agree to what you want, their political career would be finished.
Nobody would be able to hold his head up in Iran if he just capitulates to the United States, what Trump seems to want.
Remember, these are not New York real estate dealers.
These are leaders of countries, and they are responsible to their own people.
And no leader in Iran is going to humiliate his country and himself by crawling to Trump or any other leader like that.
Remember, look, for eight years, Iran and Iraq fought a very terrible war from 1980 to 1988.
There were a million casualties on both sides in that war.
In that conflict, Iran was completely isolated.
It had no allies, none whatsoever.
Not Russia, not China, not anyone.
And the United States and most of the world supported Saddam Hussein, who launched the war.
And yet Iran survived.
It survived that.
And the situation today is much better for Iran.
Iran just recently had military naval exercises with China and Russia.
Iran's situation is far better than it was in the 1980s when it fought an eight-year-long war with planes bombing, missiles clashing, huge armies in motion.
And if Iran survived that, it will certainly survive a war and attrition with the United States or any other country today.
Well, the only thing that can bring Iran and Iraq together, those mortal enemies, was the United States and its secret ally, Israel, who, by the way, never joins officially as an ally in any of these wars.
They always try to keep their fingerprints off it, but everybody knows what the score is.
I don't know if everybody does, Keith.
Well, look, most people do.
And if I were an Iranian or an Iranian leader, I would wonder, is there any real chance of reaching an honorable peace with the United States in light of their servile prostration before Israel?
Well, I want to ask Mark this.
Kevin McDonald, another one of our good friends, in response to what we shared from Ramsey Paul just a moment ago, his take on it, Iran making a symbolic attack so both sides can claim victory, and then we just have this impasse, which is perhaps where we are right now.
Kevin McDonald responded, that would be ideal, like the missile attacks after the Assad gassing hoax, a gesture.
But if Iran succeeds in killing U.S. personnel, Trump is sure to escalate, and Iran will counter throughout the Middle East and with terrorism in the United States.
But Iran was remarkably restrained in their response.
It wasn't a proportional response.
So where do you think it goes from here, Mark?
It's really hard to say.
I'm sure that Trump is getting pressure and advice from leaders around the world to tell him to back down.
But Trump ignores that advice.
In fact, I guess that's both his strength and his weakness, that he doesn't listen to anybody's advice.
He just does what he wants to do.
And most of the world, not just with regard to Iran, but in many other areas of foreign policy, are just waiting for the clock to tick out on the Trump administration.
But in the meantime, it's unclear what Trump even wants.
See, that's the problem.
It's unclear what U.S. policy is in these regions.
Is it to pull out of Iraq?
Is it to pull out of the Middle East?
That's what Trump implies.
But when the Iraqis say, get out, he says, no, we're not going to leave.
When Trump Before he was president, he pledged to pull the troops out of Afghanistan.
Maybe he'll eventually do it, but he hasn't done it.
I mean, it's unclear.
See, Trump, you don't know exactly what motivates him, and it seems to even go back and forth from month to month or week to week.
But I do think.
Well, I think the Israelis are Netanyahu yanking his chain when he, for example, I think he wanted to get out of Syria.
And then when he starts doing it, they said no way.
But he can still be pro-Israel without, well, at the same time, avoiding a war with Israel.
I mean, Obama was very pro-Israel, too.
So was George Obama.
But so was Obama.
But that doesn't mean the United States necessarily has to be involved in another war.
He can still try to do that.
We don't know the answer to that because we don't know what Trump really wants.
If he wants a deal or an arrangement with Iran so they don't have nuclear weapons, that can be done.
Just go back to the agreement that was made by the world in 2015.
But what he wants more than that, obviously, is to greatly decrease Iran's power.
But that's not going to go away.
Iran is a much more developed country, important country in the region, and it's not going to go away.
It's going to play a role, just like China or Russia or any other country, even more important than Iran.
And the United States, living in the real world, has to take that into account.
It can't just pretend that countries like Russia or China or Iran don't exist and just have them submit to the United States.
Well, I think that the real way to get down to the bottom of what our policy is going to be is not to ask what Donald Trump thinks about it, but what does Benjamin Netanyahu think about it.
Well, okay.
Yeah, I mean, ideally, Netanyahu would like it if the United States went to a full war with Syria, Iraq, and Iran, and heaven knows what.
But American presidents, even if they're pro-Israeli, are not going to just do anything.
Trump has very strong instincts to stay out of a war.
He knows that war ruined, the Vietnam War ruined the Johnson administration.
He knew that the Iraq war was a big factor in destroying George Bush's legacy and his presidency.
And he wants to avoid that.
He's smart enough to know that.
Tucker Carlson took credit, he said, for convincing Trump that just for his own sake, he should stay out of any major war.
And I think Trump understands that on just a...
Maybe he made a second call this time.
But what's that?
I said, maybe Tucker Carlson made a phone call this time as well.
Well, that's what was ironic about Trump's comment a second ago that for Obama to be re-elected, he wanted to launch this war, which, you know, obviously Trump doesn't want to launch a war if he wants to be re-elected because that would be his death mission.
Americans will support a war, as we've seen many times, when it starts.
What happens, though, is after a few weeks or a month or two or three, things go bad and then the public sours on it.
Even if they don't totally understand just how costly these wars are, they realize that they're certainly not working out the way anybody expected.
Wars are often like that.
All the countries that got into the First World War and even the Second World War, things turned out differently for everyone than anyone expected.
Even the United States came out of the Second World War unable to fulfill its political goals in that conflict.
Wars set in motion huge forces that nobody can predict how they're going to play out.
But the world is moving toward increasingly unhappy with the United States' role in the world.
And that's reflected by the increasing cooperation between Iran, Russia, and China, and also with Europe, between Russia and Europe.
That's the world that's increasingly going to play a role in our future.
But, Mark, you were right.
An hour is just not enough time, and we're so thankful to have this hour with you.
If CNN and Fox and MSNBC were having these conversations, we wouldn't have the problem with the media that we have.
Mark Weber is such a precise and insightful commentator.