Nov. 4, 2017 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool.
The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the political cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
Let all my memories of Sunday always spent with you before the clouds have been.
That song, ladies and gentlemen, was recommended to me by Jack Ryan of OccidentalDescent.com fame, soon to be a more regular contributor to the Political Cesspool.
Jack recommended we play that song tonight in light of my groundbreaking defeat in the Michigan Court of Appeals on Wednesday.
Welcome to tonight's live broadcast of the Political Cesspool radio program.
I'm your host, James Edwards.
Saturday evening, November the 4th, we're live.
And as many of you know, let's just get right down into it.
I sued the Detroit News in the spring of 2016 for printing that I was a leader of the Ku Klux Klan.
Kyle Bristow, my attorney, represented me brilliantly in court.
I don't think anyone could have argued my case any better or more effectively.
Alas, the journey came to an end on Halloween morning when the Michigan Court of Appeals ruled against me and in favor of the defendants.
But they did more than that.
I thought that we may lose that case, of course, because I am a political dissident.
It's hard for someone like me to get a fair hearing, to be quite honest, in today's criminally corrupt system.
I thought that we may lose, and they would say, because perhaps James Edwards is a celebrity or a public figure.
The bar is a little bit higher when it comes to prove defamation or damage or injury.
But that's not what they said at all.
In fact, the panel of judges mentioned in the first sentence of their decision that the law was, in fact, clearly on my side, but that Aesop's fables instructed them to judge a man by the company he keeps.
They're calling this the Aesop Precedent.
A remarkable read if you have the time.
It's on our Twitter account at James Edwards TPC.
It's at our website, thepoliticalcesspool.org.
Read the entire 11-page decision.
I will give you the money shot from it.
This is the opening statement in the decision that was handed down on Wednesday.
The restatement of torts lists membership in the Ku Klux Klan as the quintessential illustration of a defamatory statement.
In an opinion piece in the Detroit News, columnist Banco Thompson asserted that radio show host James Edwards is a leader of the Ku Klux Klan.
So far, it thinks you think it's going pretty good.
They say, yes, the law says this is the ultimate illustration of what constitutes defamation, and that is exactly what they alleged James Edwards to be.
They went on further to write, there is no evidence to suggest that Edwards holds a formal position in the Ku Klux Klan, nor is there any evidence to suggest that he is even a member.
Notwithstanding this lack of formal relationship, Edwards has espoused views consistent with those associated with the Klan.
They don't say, of course, what those views are.
And equally important, he has repeatedly and publicly embraced several individuals who are strongly associated with the Klan.
We'll get into that.
Mindful of Aesop's lesson, a man is known by the company he keeps, we hold that Edwards cannot make claims of defamation.
So basically, what the ruling pretty much states is that you don't even have to be a member of the KKK to be its leader.
An attorney not involved with this case wrote me yesterday to share with me her thoughts on the decision.
She wrote that she strongly felt as though the Michigan Court of Appeals ignored decades of defamation precedent, as well as the universally accepted definition of leader in favor of a sentiment from Aesop.
In their unanimous decision, 3-0, she wrote, this panel of judges have rendered words and defamation law meaningless.
So now apparently Aesop's fables are somehow more authoritative in court than the legal textbook definition of defamation.
So to sum it up, the judges admitted that case law precedents are on my side, but that Aesop teaches them that they must judge me by the company he keeps.
Or, if you prefer, the law's on my side, but the law doesn't apply to me.
They wrote that since I'm friends with Sam Dixon and David Duke, those were two people that were mentioned in the opinion.
That again, the law doesn't apply to me.
That's quite a decision, and especially in the case of Sam Dixon.
Sam Dixon is a friend of mine.
They say he's associated with the Klan because at one point in his very lengthy legal career, he represented a client who was a member of the Klan.
Of course, lawyers are supposed to represent unpopular clients.
That's what lawyers do.
Are you a murderer, an advocate of murder?
You're an advocate of child molestation if you represent someone who is guilty of those crimes or alleged to have committed those crimes.
But these judges will say that it is.
They'll posture saying, talking about a lawyer's duty to represent the unpopular.
But apparently my friendship with Sam Dixon cost me this case along with David Duke.
Yes, I'm friends with David Duke.
I know David Duke, unlike these judges, unlike so many of his detractors in the media.
I know him personally, and I have formed my own opinions about the man.
Isn't that what we're supposed to do?
They also question what the word leader means.
Now, if someone says you're a leader of something, wouldn't that mean to you that you belong to that particular outfit?
Not just belong to it, but are the cream of the crop of it?
The judge is right, considering the multiple meanings that leader can have, we do not read the sentence to imply necessarily that Edwards must have held some official designated role in the Ku Klux Klan.
Certainly, Edwards is correct, the judge is right, that this could be one plausible interpretation.
Another interpretation could be that Edwards was an opinion leader, one with position and influence over those who have sympathies with the Klan.
It's hard to think of a more twisted interpretation than that.
But that's what we're getting from the Michigan Court of Appeals.
So essentially, what they're saying is if a Klan member agrees with anything I've ever said, that means I am a Klan leader.
So basically, you can now accuse anyone of anything and say, well, people who are that thing agree with some of the things he says.
So therefore, he must be that too, and not just be that, but he must be the leader of that.
Now, any white advocate, this was a precedent-setting decision, by the way.
This is a published opinion, which is very rare.
And this basically turns, as we know, defamation law upside down and on its head.
Now, any white advocate can legally be defamed as a Klansman because it's possible a Klansman may have agreed with that person.
And what did I say that a Klansman agreed with?
That water's wet, sky's blue?
Who's to say?
Another attorney wrote in, it's basically what the decision is, is that it's not true.
And the person calling him that knew it wasn't true, but it sounds like it could be true, so it's not defamation.
It strains credulity to even conceive of writing something so patently disingenuous.
Words have lost all meaning.
I guess leader could mean giraffe or potato.
There was one page in this decision that even had to clarify what the word it means.
It and leader had to be defined in this opinion in order to twist case law around enough to find in favor of the defendants, in my opinion.
Well, that's my take on it.
It has made news.
National Public Radio reported on it on Thursday.
It's made some other outlets since then.
We're going to get Keith Alexander's legal analysis of this decision when we come back.
Stay tuned.
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You lost today, kid.
It doesn't mean you have to like it.
We did lose.
We did lose in court in the Michigan Court of Appeals.
The conclusion of that 11-page, really an astounding 11-page decision.
Keith Alexander in now to offer a legal analysis of it.
Later on in the show tonight, we're going to talk about the White Lives Matter rally.
We're going to talk about the terrorist attack in New York.
Antifa is supposed to be up to no good today in different cities across the country.
All of that and more is coming your way tonight during the live broadcast of TPC.
The conclusion of the decision handed down this week as a radio show host, the First Amendment protects Edwards' right of free speech.
But similarly, the First Amendment also protects the defendants' right of free speech.
Well, that's true, except for when you're violating the right to lie.
It's fine.
You can call people a racist or white supremacist, but the textbook definition of what constitutes libel was breached here.
And the judges wrap up by saying Edwards' expressed views and his close associates necessarily could be interpreted in different ways by different readers.
In other words, the statement is inherently imprecise and indefinite and thus open to several plausible interpretations rather than provably true or false.
The statement is therefore protected opinion speech.
If somebody says you're the leader of something, how would you interpret that, ladies and gentlemen?
How would you interpret that?
It is provably false.
And there's only one way that any reasonable reader would interpret when you say someone is the leader of the Klan.
You're going to think that they're associated with it at the very least.
But as Andrew Jackson said, court decisions follow closely upon elections.
If we win elections, we will see if he was right, although winning elections and winning court decisions both seem equally distant at present.
But I thought long and hard before filing this suit.
I deliberated the merits with over a half a dozen very accomplished attorneys before filing the lawsuit.
It wasn't done on a whim.
It wasn't done flippantly.
It wasn't done to prove a point or to score a political victory.
It was done solely because I found the allegations to be both defamatory and damaging.
And that was my right, but I lost.
So that was a year and a half of time and energy, money.
But it was something that I felt necessary in order to right the wrongs that had been done.
And this panel of judges, they begged to differ.
So we move on.
We may appeal it.
I'll have to take it under advisement.
No plans currently to do that, but I don't regret trying.
And I want to thank everybody for their prayerful support.
I know a lot of listeners in TPC Nation over the course of the last 18 months have been emailing me regularly to get updates.
And so you deserve to know how that lawsuit was concluded.
I especially want to thank Kyle Bristow.
But from there, we will see what happens next.
So we are going to bring on Keith Alexander now to offer his legal analysis of this.
This is, of course, Keith's bailiwick.
And he has read the entire 11-page opinion.
Keith, you are mic'd up and ready to go.
Your thoughts on the verdict.
Well, let's just get right to the heart of the matter.
What you need to do is, excuse me, we're trying to modulate the sound, folks.
Okay, hopefully you can hear me now.
What we need to do in this is follow through with the case because the hardest part of the case is over with.
The brief writing has already been done from the trial court and then the court of appeals.
I would imagine, I'm not that conversant in Michigan law, but I would imagine that an appeal to the Michigan Supreme Court, which is the next level of appellate review that you would have, is a cert or certiorari, writ of certiorari.
In other words, it's discretionary with the Michigan Supreme Court, whether or not they grant it.
That's basically a matter of filing one or two page paper and a brief.
And the brief that's already served before the Michigan Court of Appeals just needs minor modification, I would imagine, to go to the Michigan Supreme Court.
And then I hope that the Michigan Supreme Court turns it down promptly.
Because then if they do that, then the next level of appeal is to the U.S. Supreme Court.
Again, a petition for certiari because this is a federal constitutional matter.
That would be the grounds for going to the Supreme Court of the United States.
And hopefully the U.S. Supreme Court would grant cert and then we could get a hearing.
The problem with dropping it at this point is that the next time a case like this comes along, it's going to take at least two, maybe three or four years to get to this point in the pipeline that we have with this case.
That's one important matter.
We're halfway through the pipeline.
And secondly, the most important thing is that the way that the left is trying to defend themselves against letting us talk is to call us Klansmen and Nazis.
Everything else that they say bounces off like rubber bullets.
They don't have any resonance with the population at large.
But if we can get a ruling that says that you can't call somebody a Klansman, for example, unless they are a member of the Klan, which is just common sense.
Which was the case law that sanctioned what was and wasn't defamation.
And you're not a Nazi unless you either self-identify as a Nazi or are a member of the Nazi party, then we will have taken their primary weapon used to club us down in the court of public opinion.
And if they try to use those things, we can sue them for defamation and get damages.
This is a very, very important issue, I think, and I think it deserves to be taken.
What you say is correct.
Of course, you can't sue newspapers, journalists, individuals for calling you a racist or white supremacist even as untrue and as heinous as those accusations are because that's a matter of opinion.
What is a racist?
Well, that definition has never been nailed down.
But to say someone is or isn't a member of a terrorist organization is actionable by law.
Legally, there's a legal difference between calling someone a Klan leader and calling someone a racist.
And I didn't do this again to try to score a political point or a political victory.
I did it because that is obviously a very damaging thing to have hung around your neck.
Now that that has been withheld as someone's legal right to call me that, who's to say that that won't be something that I am listed as going forward?
Well, it goes far beyond you.
Featured in the news.
It goes far beyond you, James.
This is the primary weapon that the left uses.
The Southern Poverty Law Center's mission, which they have failed at, has been to come up with equivalent terms or pejoratives that they could use that has just as much effect as calling someone a Nazi or a Klansman.
They have utterly failed in doing this.
That's why they keep going back to calling people Klansmen and Nazis.
If we can stop, both the Nazi Party and the Ku Klux Klan are membership organizations.
And if you're not a member, then you shouldn't be able to be called a leader, for example, of the Klan.
No kidding.
And because of that, you know, we've taken their silver bullet away.
If we can do this, if we can make it actionable for someone to defame you and slander you by calling you a Nazi or a Klansman when you're not a member of either organization, that is a huge victory and it will give us tremendous leverage.
For example, with Dylan Roof, remember they tried to call you a member of the Council of Conservative Citizens.
That bounced off like people said, so what?
I'm conservative too.
The average member of the public is not moved by those type of things.
What they're moved by are the terms Nazi and Klansman.
Well, so that's where we're at.
People, so many people have written in in the last couple of days since this decision.
It's really been a big talking point on Twitter.
You were right to fight this, James.
I hope you can appeal possible consequences to you.
And the movement at large seem ominous and potentially devastating.
We can't allow them to stigmatize conservative activists with the KKK label.
Even especially since you never had any membership participation in the Klan, your good name must remain unsullied by this infamous association.
Well, that's why I did it, to protect my good name, the name of my father, my grandparents.
We got to take a break.
We're going to do one more segment on this, wrap it up, and then we've got so much more to get to tonight, all equally important.
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Welcome back.
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We're about to take a call from California.
I want your opinions on this, ladies and gentlemen.
If you were me, and I know it's hard to put yourself in that position, what would you do in this situation?
But I'll tell you, my defeat was not the only precedent-setting maneuver that was handed down this week.
The court's decision against me was just one of two interesting revelations this week.
The Reagan Center, a federal facility that is bound by law to host anyone in any time, canceled the NPI conference after they have had five successful venues, five successful events at that venue, one at which I spoke.
And I believe that they are preparing to take action against them.
But my defeat in court sets a precedent that essentially legalizes textbook defamation against politically incorrect individuals.
And now you have a case with Richard Spencer and MPI the same week that now even federal facilities that have to host everyone.
No questions asked.
Now they're even trying to get out of it.
And they are really backing us into a corner, ladies and gentlemen.
Legally speaking, I would ask this, where is Donald Trump?
Donald Trump said, now, obviously, we were connected to Trump.
Obviously, the Trump campaign several times throughout 2016 had to mention us or distance themselves from us.
But one thing Donald Trump did say on more than one occasion during the campaign was that he was going to loosen the libel laws that protect these thugs in the media.
Now, this is the case in which this article, the reason I was called a Klan leader, was because of my support for Donald Trump.
The whole premise of that article wasn't about me.
It was about Donald Trump being an evil person.
And people like myself were supporting him.
We already have where you haven't even said the piece de resistance yet, which is that this opinion was based not on legal precedent, but on some anecdotal quotation of Aesop's fable.
Well, I mentioned that in the first segment.
But so now, hey, they can call you a Nazi, a white supremacist, a race.
They can even call you a leader of the Klan if they want to.
Let's get John's opinion, and we'll toss it back to you, Keith.
John in California.
I encourage you strongly to take this up to the next level.
I don't know if you received my court opinion this week, but I tried to send it to you.
I myself was in the court out here in California in an appellate court.
It was a state appellate court.
And I took on two liberals and their lawyer, and was able to get a couple of rounds of demurs reversed and sent back to the trial court.
The point is, is that, you know, this psychology, it seems to me that, you know, if this is the Southern Property Law Center, are they the ones that are supporting this opposition of yours?
Is that what's happening here?
To my knowledge, the Southern Property Law Center has had no involvement in this particular case.
It's the Detroit Free Press.
The Detroit News, actually.
Detroit News.
Okay, well, you know, Michigan's a liberal state.
You've got to be thankful you weren't out here in California.
You leave it a file out here.
How could you get more liberal, John, than two Jewish justices and a black justice?
That's what James's panel is.
I agree with you.
They're political.
It's a political decision.
It's not a legal decision.
You know, it sounds more like hate speech by them against us.
But again, I urge you strongly to take it up to the next level.
And, you know, there's nothing better than having the Supreme Court behind you 100%.
I mean, that would shut a lot of folks down.
I mean, just for the cause alone, you ought to take it up to the next level.
John, this is Keith Alexander.
Let me just say this.
We really don't care.
We're just going pro forma.
We would be at the next level.
It, quite frankly, would not be optimal for us to win at the Michigan Supreme Court level.
What would be optimal would be for the Michigan Supreme Court to turn it down and then have CERT granted by the U.S. Supreme Court and have a U.S. Supreme Court decision on it.
That would be Grand Slam home.
Well, perhaps you're looking at this from the Grand Slam perspective.
I just want my personal injury to be rectified.
But perhaps I'm looking at this selfishly.
But of course, I wouldn't have brought the suit if it was to win.
You can't bring lawsuits for political reasons like that, or at least you're not supposed to.
All right, thank you for the call.
Yeah.
All right.
Thank you for the call, John.
We have a clip here of Donald Trump speaking about the press, I do believe.
Let's see what it's like.
I'm going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money.
We're going to open up those libel laws.
That sounds nice, Mr. President.
And I tell you, Donald Trump's money where your mouth is.
Well, and this is a case that directly, when you make a claim like that, and we are tied to Donald Trump by the media, you cannot ignore this case.
They obviously didn't ignore me last year.
They denounced me every other month.
At least somebody from the administration did or for the campaign.
So they know.
And this whole article was about Trump and his supporters.
And they just said, well, I'm not a racist.
We'll just go call him a Klan leader.
But Donald Trump said right there, this is a case that this whole lawsuit, this article in question that spawned the lawsuit deals with Trump and exactly what he was talking about there.
This is a textbook illustration of what he was talking about.
And it involves him.
It seems like this would be a case that he would get involved in.
And furthermore, there's one other thing that we need to keep in mind.
Here, you know, one of their big proofs for saying that you're a Klanman and that you are known by the company you keep is that you are friendly with David Duke.
Well, David Duke hasn't been a member of the Klan before I was born in 40 years.
Well, and he was very nearly the governor of Louisiana.
So all of that stuff.
Guilt by association is not law, though.
If I'm friends with some, is Donald Trump the leader of the Klan?
Is Hillary Clinton a leader of alleged pedophiles and alleged abusers of women?
I saw her taking a picture with Harvey Weinstein.
And that was actually something that was mentioned this opinion.
They said, well, James Edwards has taken a picture with David Duke, or David Duke has taken a picture with James Edwards.
So therefore, the law doesn't matter.
So Hillary is taking a picture with Harvey Weinstein.
Yeah, so she must have been.
He's lay all of his sins at her feet.
And with her mentor, Robert Byrd, who, well, we know.
Well, it was a Klansman probably about 70 years ago sometime.
Well, so, yeah, but don't try to assume that the inverse will be applicable.
We can't call everyone in Hollywood a child molester and a rapist just because they hang out together.
There'll be selective enforcement of this precedent.
Although, ironically, the media in Michigan is now calling me a conservative.
The Detroit news, actually, after I received Yankee justice, I granted a rare interview yesterday to the Detroit News, and in the first sentence of their article that was reporting on the outcome of this case, at least to this point, they referred to me as a conservative radio host.
In fact, National Public Radio wrote a conservative radio host lost his fight against the Detroit News on Wednesday.
The Michigan Court of Appeals said associating the political cessible host James Edwards with the Ku Klux Klan is protected opinion speech.
Well, it flies in the face of the textbook definition of defamation, but at least I'm a conservative again, Keith.
You got to wrap somebody on the beezer to get a little respect.
The Detroit fake news.
Yes, that's right.
It's fake news to say the leader.
But leader doesn't mean what you think it means.
Leader can mean a whole lot of things.
Well, that leader means that you are the secret inspiration behind the Klan, apparently.
And they have no evidence whatsoever that any members of the Klan actually even listen to this show.
I mean, maybe they do.
Maybe they don't.
I don't know.
But the two people that they say I have guilt by association with are Sam Dixon, who was never a member of the Klan, who represented one Klansman in one case in the 70s or 80s.
And then David Duke, who hasn't been in the Klan since before I was born, and since then has been a member of the Louisiana State House of Representatives and very nearly the governor of Louisiana.
Apparently, having any contact with any Klansman has the shelf life of plutonium.
You know, you're going to be, if, you know, apparently James' great-grandchildren can be defamed as Klansmen because James actually said a friendly word about a guy that had been in Klansman over 30 years.
Well, and I've gotten, look, I've gotten to know, I can get to know people and form my own judgments.
Yeah, right, the shelf life of plutonium.
So if you've ever been done something, it follows you forever.
I mean, I guess it will, but are you going to be judged by that forever?
There's no absolution.
There's no, I mean, there's certainly absolution for Robert Byrd.
Anyway, so, but what do you do?
Am I crestfallen?
Yes.
I think there was a miscarriage of justice.
And you pick yourself up, you dust yourself off, and you keep on fighting.
We got another clip.
Let's see if we can work it in before the break.
Anyone who challenges their control is deemed a sexist, a racist, a xenophobe, and morally deformed.
They will attack you.
They will slander you.
They will seek to destroy your career and your family.
They will seek to destroy everything about you, including your reputation.
They will lie, lie, lie.
And then again, they will do worse than that.
They will do whatever's necessary.
The Clintons are criminals.
Mr. President, that actually gave me chills to hear him say that in light of what happened this week.
The two clips that Sam has brought to the table tonight have just been perfect exclamation points on this coverage.
Yes, Mr. President, you're right.
In both of those clips, you're 100% right.
Now, help us.
We helped you last year.
Are you going to do anything about it, Mr. President?
This is a perfect opportunity to do it because we've taken it this far.
Lead, follower, get out of the way.
We've got to take a break.
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The outlook wasn't brilliant for the Mudville 9 that day.
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Welcome back.
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I did see in a newspaper article today about this case where the defendant's attorneys, and I don't have it in front of me, so this isn't a direct quote, but it's within the ballpark.
I believe he said that justice had been served and that it would have been hard for him to have imagined a more legally sound and well-written opinion.
It's about as well-written as the Brown decision, which was based totally on sociology and Kenneth Clark's dishonest doll studies.
Well, that wasn't the only bizarre thing.
I tell you, Halloween this year was a very interesting day for me.
So at 9 o'clock a.m. Eastern Standard Time on Halloween, this decision was handed down.
So there was that.
Also on Halloween.
Witchcraft.
Also on Halloween, I was engaged by Dwight McKissick.
You may remember this name.
He is the black pastor who wrote the anti-Confederate flag and anti-alt-right resolutions that the Southern Baptist Convention codified in 2016.
The moderator, Steve Gaines, basically twisted everybody's arm into endorsing.
He wouldn't let them out of the closed room until they voted it in as a plank for the Southern Baptist denomination.
Well, that's right.
And so anyway, we have had, if you go to our Twitter at James Edwards TPC, for about three or four consecutive days, he and I were going back and forth.
You can read that on Twitter.
But we also had a private exchange behind the scenes that was much more cordial and much more productive.
Well, basically what Mr. McKissick is seeking is a debate.
And he wants to debate the alt-right, the resolution, things the alt-right have said about blacks that he finds to be incorrect.
And so this is interesting.
And I did say this to Dwight McKissick.
I said I give him credit for reaching out and at least wanting to have a dialogue.
I said that they should have had that dialogue before that blasphemous resolution was passed last summer.
And that certainly even that paled in comparison to the even more blasphemous Confederate flag resolution that he wrote.
So we have some irreconcilable differences.
But it was a very interesting exchange.
So essentially what you have here, we got another caller we're about to take, but I wanted to point this out to you because it is interesting.
This is basically a man.
He pastors a church in the Dallas area.
He is basically the man who is setting the policy or has set the policy on very important issues for the past two years for the largest Christian denomination in the United States.
So this is a guy that has a tremendous amount of power in that particular world.
And of course, I grew up a Southern Baptist and have always maintained a membership at a Southern Baptist church.
So to me, this was interesting that he would reach out and that our conversation has reached the extent that it has.
And so all I will tell you is this.
He is seeking a venue.
He is seeking a venue, and he is looking forward to going through this debate with this debate, and we will see what materializes.
But if you want to read a little more about that, you can go to my Twitter.
I'm not going to reveal any privileged information that he and I had in behind-the-scenes private conversations.
But I told him this, too.
He is very much in favor of his people.
There is little he has written, or at least little that he has written that I have wrote, that I have read, I should say.
I mean, obviously he's, I'm sure, written some other things.
He is very vocal about his support of his people, for black folks.
And I said this is something that white Christians ought to take a page from.
We can agree on that.
We were going to disagree on a lot of other things.
And honestly, I have a lot – I'm much more disappointed with the so-called leaders of the – well, I don't think Russell Moore is even a Southern Baptist.
I mean, I think he is just a paid agent of George Soros.
He's a change agent.
People like Steve Gaines, though, these are the ones that are going to roll over and play dead and would rather be dead than be called a racist.
And they will do whatever they do.
If you will recall when Steve Gaines took over for Adrian Rogers as the moderator or the head of, or the head pastor at Bellevue, I told you at that moment, I said, I smell a rat.
This guy is a change agent, and I think history has proven my instincts to be right on the money.
Well, all of that's true, whether he's done it because he's a change agent or he's just scared of being called a racist or if he's just sincerely misguided, whatever the case, the lesson that we have learned in the Southern Baptists is you better dishonor your Southern Christian ancestors if you want to be in with the end crowd.
If you want to be a good Christian, you better hate your ancestors.
You better hate the righteous Confederate flag.
You better be doing all of these things to be politically correct or you're not you better hate those that are standing for what's wrong with you.
What I told you, James, was that if there is something wrong or inconsistent with being a good Christian on one hand and having a strong sense of racial solidarity with your own race on the other, then Steve Gaines and Russell Moore and Dwight McKissick need to have a long, long talk with their black brethren in the clergy who see no inconsistency whatsoever with being, one, a proud black man and two, a good Christian.
And these were points that we made behind the scenes, and we've exchanged phone numbers, and I'll imagine that I'll be in touch with this guy.
Working with him doesn't mean that we're colleagues or in cahoots in any capacity, except for, well, yes, he's actually Dwight McKissick is now a leader of the KKK.
So he's talked to the guy that's been accused of being a leader.
There he is.
There you go.
So there's that, I guess.
But in any event, I thought that was very interesting that he would reach out.
I give him credit for reaching out.
He's shown a lot more courage than the white leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention in doing so.
And we have disagreements, and we will continue to have disagreements.
And I doubt there'll be any reconciliation on those points.
Certainly, I'm not going to bend on these issues that I feel are scripturally based and heartfelt and correct.
But it is interesting that that particular man, because we've spent so much time talking about the Southern Baptist Convention in recent years on this show, that he would reach out and we would have this exchange, and I'll keep you posted on that.
But I have appreciated it and enjoyed it in a very bizarre way.
Let's go to Mike and Maryland.
Hi, James.
Thanks for taking my call.
I didn't mean to interrupt.
No, take it away.
Oh, you were doing that debate with that Cassik or whatever his name was.
McKissick.
Any day.
Well, I appreciate you saying that.
The thing is, I guess I didn't actually get into this.
He said he wouldn't debate me unless I apologized to him on Twitter and on the radio program for calling him a supporter of Black Lives Matter.
And I have reason to believe that he is, in fact, that.
He wrote that he was voting for Hillary Clinton because the shooting of unarmed black men by police officers is the greatest pro-life issue that we face in America.
If that's not Black Lives Matter, I'll eat your hat.
Well, he basically took their talking points to justify his support for Hillary.
But he's not a thug in the classical in the street parlance sense of the word.
But nevertheless, so he said he wouldn't debate me unless I offered those apologies.
I told him that that's just not going to happen.
So we agreed to disagree on that.
So he said he would debate Richard Spencer.
So we're going to see if he can.
Of course, he would love to do that because Richard's not a Christian.
Yeah, I tried it last week the other week, but you were having your 13th anniversary party, and I was disappointed I couldn't make it.
Well, we wish you would have been there.
We'll try to do it again one of these years.
That really took it out of me.
You know, in fact, I'm glad you brought that up because our last two weeks have been really 100% centered on the 13th anniversary of the show.
Obviously, two weeks ago, we were doing the live broadcast at this time from that sold-out venue.
And last week, we really kind of recapped it, and we wanted to spend those two weeks in celebration because God knows the hard work will still be waiting for us.
If we don't take a moment to pause and reflect and celebrate one another and our togetherness in this struggle, then when are we going to do it?
Because nobody's going to do it for us.
And I thought we would ease back into tonight, getting back to business as usual with some stories.
But I didn't expect that we would have Pastor McKissick reach out, and I certainly didn't expect to lose the case in the way that I lost it.
So those two things both happened this week, and that obviously takes up a lot of time.
Our plate is overflowing this weekend.
And the company that's revolution was today, I was actually more disappointed about that.
I'm sure Eddie will take it away later.
Well, I tell you, I appreciate your call, and call in anytime.
We're always happy to hear from you.
Thanks, James.
You too, my friend Mike in Maryland.
And so we're getting the calls tonight from California to Maryland.
They're all tuned in.
So anyway, Keith, that's basically well.
Our producer has asked if Richard has run afoul of Pastor McKissick.
Richard has, well, he addressed that.
He said, Richard Spencer has never called me a thug.
And so, and you, and I have.
So.
Well, that has a kind of a term of art in the black community, apparently, according to Dwight McKissick.
It has this specialized meaning, like the word sissy, for example, that has a special meaning to black people that it doesn't have to the general population.
But nonetheless, you know, I'd love to see you debate him because you're well-versed in the Bible.
You've been raised on it, and I think you can more than hold your own.
I think you could win that debate.
Well, that's well and good.
It would be interesting to be sure, but he's not going to debate me, so that's off the table.
So that's not going to happen.
But hey, I will help facilitate something with him, and I will work with him to facilitate a debate of any kind.
I think it would be, I don't know if that's necessarily Richard's wheelhouse, not being a Christian, but I don't think it'd be a good idea to have a Christian versus an Odinist.
We don't need to have that going on, really.
I don't know if it's an Odinist either, but I get your point.
Yeah, well, maybe you could debate him, Keith.
You haven't called him a thug.
Right.
But on the other hand, I wasn't raised a fundamentalist.
Now, I'm as well versed in the Book of Common Prayer as a lot of these liberals in mainline Protestant denominations.
But on the other hand, James, as a fundamentalist, I think is more versed in strictly the Bible.
Well, we need to not descend to the level of our enemies, that's for sure.
So if someone's not a thug, we shouldn't call people thugs.
But at the same time, we're not going to be apologizing either.
So we've got to take a break, and we will be back, and we're going to talk about the White Lives Matter rally in Shelby'sville.