March 9, 2013 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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Welcome to the Political Cesspool, known worldwide as the South's foremost populous radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
All right, folks, third and final hour now upon us.
We've been talking about it all night, so let's get to the main event.
An interview that Bill Rowland and I conducted with Southern author Michael Andrew Grissom January 23rd, 2006.
Remember that during the third and final hour, each week during the month of March, we're going to be playing a very classic interview from the depths of the broadcast archives featuring our beloved and now passed away friend, Bill Rowland.
So let's get to it right now.
Well, our guest tonight is Michael Andrew Grissom, author of Southern by the Grace of God, The Last Rebel Yell, and his most recent major work, Can the South Survive.
Now, all of Mr. Grissom's works are unapologetic defenses of the South and the Southern way of life, and he is with us tonight.
Good evening, Mr. Grissom.
Good evening, Bill.
And you are coming live from your home in Oklahoma.
I hope I'm alive.
You're all alive, I can tell, and a live wire as well.
So just starting out, I think we start sort of from the beginning.
Your books have been very well read in print.
How many printings now for Southern by the Grace of God?
Well, I believe we're in the 11th printing.
We may be going into the 12th, but I'm not sure about that.
Okay, your career started before you were a writer.
You were a music teacher in a public school in Oklahoma, is that right?
I was.
I taught first in a private school, a little Catholic school, while I was working on my Masters of Oklahoma.
Then I went into public schools, or better known as government schools, and taught for about six years.
And I was teaching music, chorus, and I realized that I had rather teach history, so I was going back to school in the summers and the evenings getting a minor in social studies when I finally decided the effort wasn't worth it.
I didn't want to teach.
I decided to quit.
And then I went into music full-time, was traveling and singing.
My last group was a male quartet called The Rebels, and we were doing quite well, but it's hard to keep groups together.
In 87, the group fell apart, and that's when I decided to turn to writing.
The reason I wrote was all through the major portion of my life, I have watched the South become the kicking boy of the whole country.
Sometimes it feels like the whole world is down on the South.
And I was real, you might say, disappointed, disillusioned that no major author came to the defense of the South.
There was just nobody.
People were writing novels and writing about flora and fauna and all kinds of irrelevant things.
Nobody stepped forward.
And so I was a novice, never written a book, but decided I would take up my pen and defend the South.
And it could have been as big a flop as Dallas, but it wasn't.
And that's why I'm here on the show tonight.
Well, it was a major success.
Were you really surprised by the reception of Book Gant when it was published?
I was.
I was very surprised because we had been beaten down for so long.
You remember this is 1987.
And we have been beaten down since the civil rights movement of the 60s, which was cleverly designed to coincide with the commemoration of the 100th anniversary of the War Between the States.
So for 20, 25 years, we were completely beaten down with the rod of race.
And so in 87, we had lost monuments, street names, flags.
No one was standing up.
And that was the source of my frustration.
And that's why I wrote the book.
And I was very surprised, very surprised that it struck a chord with many, many Southerners.
And I believe it opened the door to a lot of what we call the Southern movement, the movement to fight back, you might say.
I think that your books undoubtedly sparked a revival into the love of the South that had lain dormant.
I don't think that it was a surprise that they did catch on in so much as that even though it's not popular within the mainstream media, you can't turn a corner, at least here in Memphis, without seeing a Confederate flag on somebody's truck or something of that nature.
The people here still love the South.
They love what we stood for, and they believe in the Confederate ideals that that government was built upon.
It says on your website that your books are traditional Southern political commentary and historical fact, which you won't find anywhere else, and that's the truth.
Your books are where you'll find the old South, the surviving culture, and traditional Southern positions on major issues confronting the South today.
I just want to give your complete catalog, if I might.
Your books include You Might Be Southern If, Things I Learned the Hard Way, The Southern Book of Quotes, Can the South Survive, Farewell to the Accent, and some of your most notable books being When the South Was Southern, Southern by the Grace of God, and The Last Rebel Yell, an oppressive lineup of books, to say the least.
And you are a very renowned author.
I remember long before I came into this radio show hearing the name Mike Grissom with affection.
You mentioned that there hadn't been any other preeminent authors taking up the cross of the Confederacy with their writings.
Besides that, though, what made you decide to dedicate your talents to aid the Southern Heritage Movement?
It had to be something more than just no one else was doing it.
Obviously, there's something within you that wanted to do that.
Well, I would say that was the major, major source of irritation that pricked me and made me go into action.
But, of course, you know, we who have southern roots and have grown up in the southern vein know what a wonderful heritage, what a wonderful culture, unmatched in my estimation anywhere in the world.
And we just simply hate to lose something so valuable, so precious, so good, and yet it was just under complete attack.
And so the very soul within you reaches up and says, stop, stop.
We don't want to be obliterated.
We don't want to trade in such a matchless heritage for a piece of junk, for a cheap goo gaw, a bauble.
Well, now, you certainly grew up and reached adulthood in, I would say, some of the most turbulent times in the South.
You matured in that era and can remember some of it well.
What do you think was one of the milestones?
When in your youth did you see things, the coming storm, so to speak?
I'm having a little trouble hearing you, Bill.
Can you hear me okay?
I hear you fine, yeah.
You're a little bit soft, and I didn't catch what you said there at the last.
Okay.
You pretty much grew up and went through your teen years and early adulthood during the period of turbulent civil rights movement and so forth in the South.
What do you consider one of the pivotal points in your life?
What do you consider, you know, when you saw the storm clouds coming when you were a young man?
All right, let's hold up right there, ladies and gentlemen.
When we come back, we're going to get to Michael Andrew Grissom's answer to the question posed to him just then by Bill Roland.
And folks, if you're enjoying this interview so far, let me tell you, it gets better.
It gets better, if you can believe it.
Going all the way back to January of 2006, when that interview was aired live on the Political Cesspool, we are revisiting it tonight in the wake of the passing of Bill Roland, one of his best interviews.
And I was there with him, Michael Andrew Grissom.
We'll be back right after this.
The Political Cesspool, guys.
We'll be back right after these messages.
Hello, everyone.
James Edwards here.
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Jump in the Political Cess Pool with James and the Gang.
Call us tonight at 1-866-986-6397.
And here's the host of the Political Cess Pool, James Edwards.
Folks, you don't want to hear from me live tonight.
Not in this hour.
Let's get back to this magnificent interview right now.
Pretty much grew up and went through your teen years in early adulthood during the period of turbulent civil rights movement and so forth in the South.
Yes.
What do you consider one of the pivotal points in your life?
What do you consider, you know, when you saw the storm clouds coming when you were a young man?
Well, I saw it with the integration movement.
Now, I went to government schools for five years, segregated schools.
So I knew what a wonderful, safe environment the school could be.
And yet with the very, very first year we integrated, there was a clash of cultures, there was violence, language I had never heard in my life.
I could see it then.
I was knocked off my bicycle by two big black boys.
You know, they mature more quickly than white boys do.
So in the sixth grade, nearly all the black boys were much bigger than the white boys.
So for fun, they knocked me off my bicycle.
So I really had a real good personal experience with integration.
This stuck with me.
And that wasn't the last incident.
But as we, that was in 1956.
As we went through our school years and the school was integrated, there were just naturally problems, just racial problems.
And then in 1961, when the commemoration started, I could see that blacks were opposed to the celebration.
At Fort Sumter, for instance, they were to reenact the bombardment of Fort Sumter and the New Jersey, every state had a civil rights, I mean a Civil War Centennial Commission.
And the New Jersey bunch and others in New York and other places just said they would boycott the festivities because there was segregation in South Carolina.
I saw it.
It was trying to ruin our four-year commemoration.
So I don't know if there was any one pivotal experience.
It was just the whole integration movement that became purposely intertwined with our 100th year commemoration.
Were you active in pro-Southern causes when you were young?
Did you try to take up some sort of action or join a group or do something that would sort of stem the tide of anti-Southern sentiment or what was happening in the South at the time?
No, no, there were no groups, to my knowledge, anywhere in the South that were opposing things except the school integration.
And that we integrated so quickly here in Oklahoma.
We had a liberal Democrat governor, and they collected our levies to support the school system on a countywide basis.
He immediately got the legislature to change that so that it would be collected by the state and then he could enforce integration rules.
Nothing would be withheld.
I didn't know of any kind of organized protest movement, but I would read in the newspapers about places like Boca Loosa, Louisiana, and Selma, Alabama, and places where integration was being forced.
I know there were protests there.
There was the council, the Citizens' Council movement in Mississippi.
But there were no organized protests against this out here in Oklahoma or Texas.
So there was nothing really to join.
So by 1987, you already had been sort of through the trenches of what was happening in the South.
And yet, you wrote a book that I guess you feel maybe was not going to be as great a success, but you felt that you had to write it.
Well, yes, I felt I had to write it.
And, of course, nobody told me at the time that your chances of self-publishing were just nil, that nobody self-publishes and gets anywhere.
Had I known that, I probably wouldn't have written it.
But I just thought a person could write a book and promote it, and it would be successful if it was good.
So I just backed my ears, learned the ropes.
I moved to Nashville after I'd written half the book, learned that I had to find a typesetter, a printer, a binder, and I did it and printed it twice.
It sold out.
I got it in August.
By November, I had to have it reprinted.
I printed 2,000 copies, and the second time I ordered 3,000 copies, and then Pelican picked it up.
But it was, I was, I was still surprised.
I was surprised for the very fact that I could not turn the radio on, the TV on, or pick up a book and learn of anyone who was defending us.
Integration had been accepted by that time.
Everyone was integrated, and it was a fait accompli.
I was surprised that I struck a chord with anybody who had any pro-South or racial feelings left.
Now, The Last Rebel Yell, your second book, was considerably more, I'll use the word militant, but considerably more forceful than Southern by the Grace of God, which was more or less an ode to the South, would you say that?
An homage, whereas The Last Rebel Yell was sort of had more fighting words, wouldn't you say?
You're probably right.
After I began to get on the book signing circuit to do the autographings and travel around the South with Southern by the Grace of God, I could see that people were really responsive to what I had written, and there were developing some interest in fighting back, and I was finding examples of it.
And so, when I wrote The Last Rebel Yell, to tell you the truth, there were things that I didn't have time in the space to put in, Southern by the Grace of God.
For instance, the chapter on picking cotton, a full chapter on that old-time religion in the South.
And at the same time, I had such good personal anecdotes that I included those in there.
One chapter says why we're still fighting the war, and that chapter is dealing with people who actually were getting up and fighting back and saving the flag here and there.
So, I guess it did take a more militant tone, probably.
Well, Mike, let me ask you this, and this is an amazing success story, and I enjoy listening to you.
What is the one thing you would like people to come away with after reading your books?
How would you like them to be changed or better by your books?
Wow, that's a big question.
I would just like to see the South, and then if I could play a small part in this, I would like to see the South in the same situation, the same condition that it was when I grew up.
It was safe.
It was fun.
We respected our ancestors, including and foremost were our Confederate ancestors.
We never questioned their morals.
We didn't question their principles, the reason they fought.
We accepted it as our reasoning.
You know, I have a pet peeve nowadays.
Invariably, when people attempt to celebrate, have a battle reenactment or a commemoration or a wreath laying, someone from the media interviews somebody who says they fought for the principles in which they believed.
No, they fought for the principles which were right and the principles for which I believe.
Yes.
Principles in which I still believe.
So I'm hoping that people, after they read my books, will realize that those principles are enduring and to hang on to them and to reject the pop culture of today.
I agree with that 100%.
You've got to take it personal.
These are our family.
This is our extended family, and I certainly do take it personal, and this show always has.
And I couldn't agree with you more.
Bill.
Let's hold it up right there while we toss it back over to Bill.
We're going to hold it up right there, folks, and we're going to continue this interview for the remainder of the time we have this evening.
Folks, if you want a copy of that book, Michael Andrew Grissom has sent us a box of books that he has signed for listeners at the Political Assess Pool who want to contribute to our fundraising drive.
Proceeds from our first quarter fundraising initiative this month will go to keep our show on the air and will go to help support the family of Bill Rowland, his wife and children.
But you've got to contribute at the appropriate level, those values at thepolitical cesspool.org.
We're going to continue more right after this.
More of Mike Grissom's accent right after this.
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You don't want to hear from 2013, James.
I'm going to give a Hail Merry Pass all the way back to 2006, James, when I was sitting in the studio with Bill Rowland and our guest, Michael Andrew Grissom.
As you know, and I've seen you at the rallies and the flag rallies and the demonstrations that were held in South Carolina and Georgia, Alabama, the other states where we've both been there.
Yes, we have.
And enjoyed some success and then saw things go wrong in some cases.
Do you think now the same passion is there for these things that we had gone, you know, taken at our own expense to fight for these things and gone to the places we needed to go?
Do you think the passion's still there?
Or is there a re-examination going on among Southerners?
Where are we right now?
Bill, I'm pessimistic.
I don't see that passion among as many people.
We came through the destructive era prior to Southern by the Grace of God, which came out in 1988.
I wrote it in 87.
It was published in 88.
We came through that phase of destruction, and then we began to fight back.
But you know, the old warriors who were alive then, the older ones, are dead or retired or tired.
They're out of the fight.
And now we're having to depend on younger people who were raised in government schools, who are brainwashed, who now think nothing about interracial dating.
And once you are that far removed from the principles of our ancestors, you really have little time or room or inclination to believe in the flag, in the monuments.
It means nothing.
So I really don't see it.
And I think we have been defeated so many times, so long, that many of us are very tired.
Excuse me.
We just don't seem to have the fire because if we win one battle, we lose about 100.
Well, now, you've gotten, finally, I think the book that is your howl, your outcry, I think the old word is Jeremiad, is Can the South Survive?
And I'm going to sort of pick through part of this, but in one section here, you sort of predict exactly what happens in New Orleans, but you're talking here about Miami.
I won't go too much into this, but basically, it discusses the huge crime in Miami, the terrible violence.
In one section, it here, Miamians have gone numb to violence and degeneracy, and some even find entertainment in it.
On one occasion, police found themselves surrounded by a crowd of 500 curious onlookers as they prepared to remove two decomposing corpses from the trunk of a gold-colored Cadillac.
People spent hours waiting for the spectacle to begin, sipping lemonade, bouncing their children on their shoulders, and sniffing the odor of rotting flesh.
And you go on to mention here that the similar situation or similar mentality exists.
Miami then can be found in Atlanta, New Orleans, Houston, and Dallas.
Sort of a glimpse into the future when chaos hits and what happens to our cities in the future.
Well, now, by the way, let me, I want to give credit where credit is due.
I did, what you read was not actually from my pen.
I quoted from Jerry Taylor and his American Renaissance, that particular section, but I wholeheartedly agree with it.
What was your question?
Where do we go from here?
Where do we go from here?
We're in the position now where our people are under attack and really running now from our own city.
I want to kind of repose that question to both of y'all because, you know, I am actually a 25-year-old, and I don't have the perspective that Mr. Grissom does, or really you, for that matter, Bill.
You're a little bit older than me.
Well, now, how old is Bill?
We need to get it.
Yeah, we do.
As a matter of fact.
Not yet 50.
All right, okay.
I'm envious.
You know, so from my perspective, I was lucky enough to be homeschooled.
So had I been completely indoctrinated with the government schools, I probably wouldn't be here today.
That would fairly be a certainty.
So I don't know how it was back in the 50s and 60s when you could have a rally on any day of the week and get hundreds, if not thousands, of southern sympathizers to come and fight.
I've never seen that.
And the victories that I've experienced, I enjoy them.
But, you know, it's like Micah said, you know, one victory might mean a thousand losses somewhere else.
So I don't know if it's gotten better or worse because I don't have that longevity to judge for myself.
But I'll say this, and Bill, I wanted to ask you as well, where do we go from here?
I'll repose that question to you because you and I are often fighting together for different causes, this being on the front lines of it.
But there aren't many like me, and I don't say this bracketociously, you know, I'm a humble guy, but to be 25 and to do what we do here is a rarity, and it's a shame.
But what do we do?
I mean, is there anything, let me put it this way.
Whatever the solution is, I think must be done post-haste because we can't afford to sacrifice another generation of those who were fighting these battles back decades ago because then you put even more pressure on this generation to come forth with a solution.
And I share some pessimism with Mike Grissom, although I do believe that we do still have hope for the future or else there'd be no point in fighting at all.
Well, I'll say this.
I think that often we underestimate our efforts and our successes.
And for instance, Mr. Grissom's books have had a tremendous influence on people.
Southern by the Grace of God is still in print.
The books do get read over time.
And people do begin to embrace some of the ideas and some of the thoughts.
There are many different movements out there right now, I think, that are grappling with this question and grappling with this problem.
And we've had some of the guests on this show who grapple with this problem.
And so the situation is not hopeless.
It is desperate.
But I think we have to keep in mind that these other groups are ultimately self-destructive.
The people who are against us are self-destructive.
They've lit the fuse on the powder keg they stand atop of.
And so eventually they'll destroy themselves.
What we've got to figure out is how to survive until they do.
Well, that's what we're doing.
We're living off the land and nickel and diming.
And I know, Bill, we've got to take a commercial break.
And Mike will be with us, though.
We've got to keep Mike Grissom on the phone for the full hour tonight as we continue this interview.
And speaking of Southern heritage and Southern pride, I do take pride in my Southern draw.
Although I have to admit, Mike Grissom's got us both looked bill.
He can now draw us both, that's for sure.
And I do want to mention one thing, Bill, before we continue on with our interview.
Got word from one of our mutual friends, Peter Jimma, today that a letter I wrote appeared in the Washington Examiner, which was in response to an article he wrote in that publication about the Minutemen and that he was proud to be a Minuteman.
And also, well, he sent me a copy of the interview, told me to enjoy my 15 minutes of fame.
I didn't know a letter to the editor was so such a great thing.
But he's also mentioned, I don't know if you know this, Bill, but I wanted to let our listeners know that he has just finished editing a book called Shots Fired, Sam Francis on America's Culture War.
And he has many, the foreword is by Pat Buchanan and the afterword is by Joe Sobron.
And it has many of Sam Francis' unpublished columns and articles, the things that have never been seen before.
And Peter's going to be coming on the show next month to talk about that.
And that'll be out.
That's going to be published in March.
So it's going to look forward to it.
One of the great minds that I've ever known, Dr. Francis, Samuel Francis, an absolute towering figure, and lost too soon.
His best work was ahead of him.
And unfortunately, God has plans that sometimes we don't see coming up.
Well, I can remember talking to you last year, and you breathed a sigh of relief.
You called me and said, look, we almost lost Sam Francis, but it looks like he's going to pull through.
And his funeral was a week later.
Sam Francis, of course, great leader of the Council of Conservative Citizens, who also always behind this program.
And we just received some warning from them and the Citizens Informer.
And so anyway, I just wanted to let that out there.
I wanted to mention that.
I told Peter I would.
And I look forward to that, Sam Francis, right along the same lines as our guest tonight.
Our esteemed guest.
Esteemed guests tonight when it comes to the wit of their pens.
And Bill, continue on with the great show tonight.
You're still there, Mike?
I'm still here.
Sorry to keep you waiting through the.
That's okay.
I think we're all anticipating that wonderful book that's coming out.
I was glad to hear you mention that.
Well, what are you writing now?
Have you got anything that your pen is actually?
Bill asking Michael Grissom.
Wow.
Oh, that was haunting.
I mean, wow.
Talking about the passing of Sam Francis, listening to Bill Rowland, first of all, how great is it to still be able to hear him and to still have those archives to draw from?
But I forgot about that part because I didn't listen to this whole interview all the way through before we played it tonight.
I didn't revisit it, but to hear Bill talking about the passing of Sam Francis and how people have, how God has plans for people that we don't know.
And now Bill's gone and Joe Sobron's gone.
Chilling.
We'll be back with the conclusion right after this.
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He pursued his tennis game with vigor, for example.
Well, I hadn't, but I learned about it from Kurt Crosby.
All right, and he actually let me take a scientifically proven free vigor test.
And I got 13 out of 32, not very good.
But I worked on it with him, and believe it or not, now I have a 29 out of 32 and improving vigor score.
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My response is, you got to take the free test available now.
Get a hold of Kurt Crosby to learn about it.
The number's 801-669-2211.
That's 801-669-2211.
Or email Kurt C-U-R-T at LibertyRoundtable.com.
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Welcome back to get on the political cesspool.
Call us on James's Dime, toll-free, at 1-866-986-6397.
And here's the host of the Political Cesspool, James Edwards.
Folks, I hope you're enjoying this interview, this classic revisitation that I had the honor of hosting with Bill Rowland back in 2006.
Michael Andrew Grissom, our guest.
I hope you're enjoying listening to it as much as I am enjoying listening to it again.
Let's get right back to it.
What are you writing now?
Have you got anything that you pen as?
Actually, first of all, would it be impolite of me to ask that my website could be given to your listeners?
That's where my books can be found.
No, it wouldn't.
And I would ask you to go ahead and do it now.
And I already had it written down in my notes to be sure to give you numerous plugs towards the end of the program.
But you can't.
Well, I apologize for jumping the gun.
No, no, absolutely not.
Go ahead and give it now, and we will do it again at the end of the show because.
It's very simple.
It's just my name, Michael Andrew Grissom.
You just do www.michaelandrewgrissom.com.
Run it all together.
And that is Grissom, G-R-I-S-S-O-M.
Michael Andrew Grissom.
Yes, sir.
James, you're right.
Actually, we plugged that in our newsletter that went out to our subscribing listeners over the internet.
And we will be sure to link that up on our website as well.
But if anyone would like me to email it to them, just send me an email, and we'll be sure you find your way to Mike Grissom's website where you can buy these great books and learn more about his writings and philosophies that he's sharing with us tonight.
Well, you guys are all right.
I'm going to mention a few groups.
And if you don't want to comment, fine.
If you do want to comment, be blunt, honest, and straightforward.
You're going to get me in a fix here, aren't you?
This is that kind of show.
Bill knows we have quite a leash here at AM 1380WLRM.
So, yeah, speak freely.
We've learned that we can.
He's paying me back for some things that I did to him.
No, no, no, no.
I won't put you on the spot too much, I promise.
The Republican Party, now the majority party in the South.
Get out as fast as you can.
No good.
That's all I need to know for you.
Mike Grissom from president.
I mean, he is on the right show.
This is no coincidence that he is down his way to the political cesspool because as Confederate defenders and as true constitutional conservatives, I share that.
I love you.
These people brought us that wonderful war that we're still dealing with about 140 years ago.
And they've only gotten worse since then, believe it or not.
Oh, yes, we're still under Reconstruction.
I love Rapid Fire Segments.
I won't interrupt again, but I couldn't resist.
Bill, keep going.
The Establishment Church.
Now, I'm not going to give denominations.
I'm talking, you know the ones I mean, the mega churches, the big denominations.
Well, I dealt with this in Can the South Survive.
Most of the churches are hopelessly integrationist.
They really do not stand up for moral issues.
Most of their people can't stay away from the R-rated movies and the PG movies, which are poisoning the moral atmosphere of what's left of our ravaged culture.
They're really, well, look at all of these major mainline denominations.
They're losing people.
They're a shell of what they used to be.
Something's wrong.
Well, you're absolutely right on that as well.
And we just covered, I want to make mention to the fact again, because I was quite proud of this show last Wednesday when we did the Robert E. Lee tribute special for his birthday.
That was the epitome of a Christian man.
In fact, we had a camp commander, Terry Beasley, one of the good guys in the SEV on, who said Robert E. Lee was the second greatest man to ever walk the earth.
That is what a true Christian is.
What he believed and he fought for really represents the Christian ideology.
And again, I found myself in agreement with your sentiments on the establishment church.
They really aren't what they were.
And, you know, we talk about this a lot from the pastors and congregates who went out and fought the British Empire and won our Revolutionary War, won our independence.
We've gone from that to churches who now say, now apologize for the Bible saying sodomy is a sin.
That's where we are today in America.
Well, I will mention one name.
And again, if you want to just say pass, we'll pass.
But the Reverend Billy Graham.
Well, I don't dignify him with the moniker Reverend.
Billy Graham was a closet integrationist.
I suppose closet is not the appropriate word because he took great pride.
And he talks about this in his memoirs, his autobiography.
He would personally go over and remove the tape in his great campaign, Coliseum campaign that separated blacks from whites.
He claims he was a good friend of Martin Luther King, that Martin Luther King was one of the very few people that let him call him by his real name, Mike.
And he claims, and this is in my book also, Can the South Survive.
He says that Mike said, Oh, Billy, don't get in the streets.
You stay in the churches.
You work undercover.
Let me get out in the streets.
Billy Graham, I don't think Billy Graham ever really preached a real significant direct message.
Billy Graham's messages were all rather broad, and I think that's why he was so accepted by Democrats, Republicans, liberals, neoconservatives, black, white.
Billy Graham just never really got down and grappled with the issues.
And that's, well, I mean, you really said it there.
If you have no enemies, you really can't be a leader.
Am I wrong in that assessment?
I think it's in the book of Christianity.
I think he was a leader.
I think you can become a leader, but you can sure become a leader in the wrong direction.
Billy Graham has been roundly criticized by people like, oh, now I can't call his name, this columnist.
Well, anyway, this old age gets you.
Billy Graham has been criticized for never really saying what needed to be said and for being so obsessed with rubbing elbows with the famous people of the world.
He was a leader, but he's like the Pied Piper.
He's leading people off in directions they shouldn't go.
Well, you're right about that.
I'm not criticizing him for saying that Jesus is our Savior and you need to come to Christ.
Those generalities are true, but most mainline denominations used to preach that plus the way to live, the principles of Christianity.
And Billy Graham just sort of glosses over that and has a big Coliseum and a campaign crusade.
And I imagine he's sitting on a pile of money.
Yeah, and you know he is, and I realize that he's senile now, but when he endorsed Hillary Clinton for president or whatever it was that he didn't.
Oh, I didn't catch that.
Yes, yes.
Oh, boy.
Yeah, that was pretty much.
Do you remember that, Bill?
I think so.
I remember he was a little bit of a daughter.
He alluded to that anyway.
Well, no, he quite out said it was his buried life.
It was in New York.
And it was his very last crusade.
This was last fall.
We cover this on the show extensively.
I think we almost had a full show to it one night.
And he was introduced by Bill Clinton and saying his praises, then he said it was something along the lines of it would be great if your wife could follow in your footsteps and develop a lot.
Something like that.
So, yes.
Well, he did say that Bill Clinton would make a good preacher and that he was charismatic.
Yes.
Had a lot of talent, a lot of potential.
And he also said that we needed to marry blacks now that we needed to integrate the family.
The Atlanta Journal of Constitution reported that, that he needed, we needed to integrate the church and the family.
And yes, interracial marriage should be accomplished.
And he may have said those things about Bill Clinton should have been a preacher before, but he also said that in the very same sermon that I was alluding to just then.
Rapid fire segment, Bills.
I love them.
I love them.
You got anything else?
Southern heritage organizations in general.
I'm not going to mention any specifically.
Well, I hesitate to criticize any Southern Heritage organization.
Some of them are off on tangents that won't work.
They'll find out that bringing in blacks and claiming they were Confederate soldiers and all this poppy cock is not going to work, isn't working.
In fact, it's splitting some of them apart.
But we are so few and so desperate to survive as a race, as a culture, as descendants of Confederate soldiers.
I hesitate to actually name any of them and criticize them.
Now, if I were meeting with them in a meeting or speaking directly to them, I would definitely voice my opinion.
And, of course, you know, opinions are like mortgages.
Everybody's got one.
I haven't heard the opinions.
I've heard the concept that I've heard.
Well, I cleaned that up.
Can we go ahead and interrupt you right there?
Okay, we, as you know, a good place to stop right there, folks, because we're running out of time.
There is a little bit more to that interview, and I encourage you to look it up and listen to it.
ThepoliticalAccess Pool.org.
Go to the broadcast archives.
You're going to have to dig deep.
You're going to have to dig back seven years plus now to go back to January of 06th, January 23rd of 2006.
And you can get the remainder of that interview that I conducted along with Bill Rowland.
Here on the Political Assess Pool with Michael Andrew Grissom.
Well, folks, I talked to Michael Andrew Grissom.
Thankfully, he is still here with us, although our good friend Bill has been called home to receive his eternal reward.
It's great to be able to still hear Bill.
It's great to be able to still play Bill.
His work, his words, his thoughts, his wisdom will live on in our broadcast archives.
And don't forget that the incentive to those who can contribute $100 or more tonight to the Political Assess Bull between now and March 31st, you'll get the best of Bill Rowland.
That CD, you contribute $200 or more.
You're going to get that CD plus an autographed copy of Michael Andrew Grissom's book, Southern by the Grace of God, which is a hard title to find sign now because he doesn't tour anymore.
Folks, that's all the time we have remaining this evening.
But I'll be back with you again live next week here in the Political Assess Bull.