Aug. 4, 2012 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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Welcome to the Political Cesspool, known worldwide as the South's foremost populous radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
And welcome back to the Political Cesspool.
I'm Bill Rowland, sitting in for James Edwards, who has gone to get a little snack, and I will be in control of your radio set for the next hour as I interview and continue our interview with Dr. Tom Sell.
For those of you who missed the show last week and have not listened to the archives of last week's show, Dr. Sell is truly an American political prisoner.
He was arrested at his dental office while he had patients waiting for treatment.
He was brought before a judge with trumped-up charges of Medicare and insurance fraud totaling a whopping $30.
He was later charged with conspiring to kill an FBI agent, and his wife was subsequently brought into his persecution.
And Dr. Sell's story is just fascinating.
We learned all about what he went through going from jail to jail, going from courtroom to courtroom, all yet no trial being brought and the charges being at best vague.
And as this story will continue, you will find out the real reason for Dr. Sell's persecution by our totalitarian state.
At one point, Dr. Sell was arrested in his parking lot.
And Dr. Sell, I know you're on the phone with us.
Yeah, I am.
Welcome to the show.
You were telling me just before the show you were arrested in the parking lot of your office a second time.
And what happened in that case?
Well, when they, I was walking holding the hand of my three-year-old son in the parking lot of my dental office, and they maced me and beat me at gunpoint.
I just remembered my son screaming, don't hurt my daddy, don't hurt my daddy.
Of course, they beat me so bad they couldn't take me anywhere but to the emergency room of the hospital for several hours before they could take me to the courthouse.
Did they give you any warning at all?
Did they simply walk up on you?
No, they just walked up on me and proceeded to knock me down, mace me, knock me down with guns and everything.
No warning.
And just kept beating you with your three-year-old son in tow.
I would have thought that, you know, if I was a cop and I saw a man walking with his three-year-old son, I would immediately assume that he was not going to provoke an argument or a fight with his, you know, with a child present like that.
There were eight of them.
There were eight officers.
Were they policeman or FBI agents?
FBI agents.
FBI agents.
Well, you know, even local policemen don't behave that way in circumstances like that.
I wanted to mention, Dr. Sell, too, that your case actually carried over into the lives of your friends and acquaintances because I know that Gordon Baum was roughed up by the FBI on the front porch of his house.
And I think your case was ongoing at that time, and certainly some connection was made between your case and what happened to Gordon Baum on the front porch of his house.
Well, yeah.
See, when they had all my files, they went all summer and fall, all they did was drive from one patient to the next to interview my patients to try and get them to say bad things about me or to say that I billed for work that I didn't do.
And they couldn't find one person that would say that.
Well, one day, Kevin Costantino and another FBI agent arrived at Gordon Baum's house, and they proceeded to beat him in the living room of his home in front of his two children and his wife, knock him down on the floor, and Linda called the police.
The police came, and the FBI agents tried to get away, jumped in their car, and tried to get away.
The police pulled them over and caught him, took him to the jail, and Gordon goes flying to the jail to press charges.
And so then the head of the FBI in St. Louis comes and gets his agents out.
And Gordon says, what's with this?
And the police say, well, what can we do?
They're FBI.
You know, we had to let them go.
I understand that Gordon subsequently had a conversation with Louis Free, who was at that time the director of the FBI.
And even Louis Free thought their behavior was appalling.
So, you know, this is obviously sort of a rogue operation, it seems, going on with your case.
And as I say, spilling over into the lives of others.
It's really like the Soviet Union.
I mean, the Soviet Union behaved exactly the same way with political dissidents, enemies of the state.
So I guess at this point, you have become an enemy of the state.
And as you said last week, where we left off last week, was the fact that in one of the jails where you were held, and it seems you were, I think you went over two states to different jails.
I know you went to one in Illinois and a couple in Missouri.
Subsequently, you were charged with conspiring to contract someone to murder FBI agents.
And the only witness against you was the jailhouse snitch, who had been put in your jail cell while you were being held supposedly on these other charges.
And that's where we left off.
What happened with the charges brought against you for conspiracy to commit murder?
And eventually, your wife became involved.
Well, those were totally bogus charges, and they arrested my wife on that.
They had people following her around that were wired.
And they just used that to hold me for longer and longer time.
But eventually that was all watered down to crimes against the United States of America, supposedly.
I was never sure what those crimes were.
But there was never any definitive plot they could prove that I was going to murder anybody.
So, again, trumped up charges.
So far now, you've been in numerous jails.
You've been arrested at least three times, once in the courtroom.
What charges at this point are pending against you?
I think it's probably in about 13 different jails.
That's amazing.
I can't imagine.
I've never known anybody who was moved from jail to jail.
But again, referencing the Soviet Union, the Soviet Union did move its political prisoners from Gulag to Gulag in order to make them disappear.
And they wanted to give them anti-psychotic medication.
Okay, that's what we're going to get into next.
At some point, you were told that in order to go to trial, you were going to be forced to take psychotropic or antipsychotic drugs, and that those drugs were going to make you competent to stand trial, even though you had had at some point a battery of tests to test your sanity and pass them all with flying colors.
And that is, you know, an entirely different dimension to this story that borders on the absurd.
Dr. Selle, we only have about 20 seconds left.
We're going to come back after this break and pick up what happened to you, how this, your, your forced, the drugs the government tried to force you to take, you eventually took that to court, and what happened, and your appearance on Dateline NBC.
All of that after these messages.
Don't go away.
The Political Cesspool Guys will be back right after these messages.
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Jump in the Political Cesspool with James and the game.
Call us tonight at 1-866-986-6397.
And here's the host of the Political Cesspool, James Edwards.
This is the way we feel.
And welcome back to the third hour of the Political Cesspool.
Tonight, I'm Commanding the Third Hour.
I'm Bill Rowland, co-host.
James Edwards is here in the control room with me, but he is taking some time to do some research for future topics.
And I have on the air with me Dr. Tom Sell, a true American political prisoner.
If you listened to the show last week, you got an introduction to Tom Sell and the ordeal he went through with the federal government, a government that went after him for his politics and for his experiences, which we'll get into in a future episode.
But certainly, Dr. Tom Sell did not deserve the abuse and the persecution he deserved from the federal government.
And Dr. Sell, when we left off just before the break, we were getting ready to go into the process that the government went through to put you on antipsychotic drugs so that they could force you to stand trial because they claimed you were not competent to stand trial, which is the first I've ever heard of this.
Let me ask you something.
Before we get into the dateline interview and the subsequent judgment ruling that was favorable to you in terms of this attempt to drug you, were you ever in a mental facility this whole time that you were being held and incarcerated?
Were you ever put in a mental facility or was it always just jails?
Well, the very first time, as I mentioned, they zipped me right off to the mental hospital at Springfield, but I took the Fifth Amendment.
So after that summer, they let me out on bond.
But I want to say something that I think your listening audience might be interested in.
When I was practicing dentistry, this man brings his 16-year-old boy nephew in.
And he had like 16 cavities, and he says, I can't afford it.
And his father's in prison.
I said, well, if his father's in prison, I'll do all his dental work for free.
So I fixed all his teeth for free.
Well, a couple years later, I'm in jail at St. Genevieve, and they bring in this man.
For some reason, they transferred him there from like the walls in Jefferson City, real hardcore prisoner from a real hardcore prison.
And of course, he was on the upper tier and all the inmates are asking him, what's it like?
What's it like?
You know, he's like a big man.
And I listened, caught his name, and I said, oh, you're so-and-so.
I don't want to mention his name on the air.
But he says, yeah, what's it to you?
Who are you?
I said, I'm Doc Sell.
And he says, Doc Sell, and he runs down the steps.
He gives me a big hug.
He says, you took care of my son's teeth for free.
I'll never forget that.
And from that moment on, as long as we were together at St. Genevieve, he just stuck with me.
So you never know when you do a good deed, when it's going to come back to help you out.
That reminds me of the story in the Bible of the angel unaware, that you had an angel unaware there that probably got you through that experience in that particular prison, especially if he was one of the hardcore inmates who other inmates probably respected with a certain amount of money.
Well, anyway, yeah, getting to that forced medication, they, you know, I told them my story, like I was a major in the Army and things like that.
Well, they didn't believe that.
They thought I was just making that up.
They couldn't believe I was a major in the Army Reserves.
And they said I was delusional.
And in order to stand trial, I had to take anti-psychotic medication, that I was incompetent to stand trial.
And I said, I will not take antipsychotic medication because I want to go to trial and rob my right mind because there's so much of this technical dental scientific evidence that I need to put on trial.
I got to be in my right mind.
I got to think straight.
So they had a hearing on that.
And actually, Gordon came and one of my lawyers came to Springfield.
And I presented them with all my Army records showing that on all my OERs all over the 16 years, I had nothing but the top marks in judgment and things like that, you know.
And I told them the story, and of course it was a kangaroo court.
And they said at that prison court, the psychiatrist said I had to take the medication.
So my lawyers appealed that.
And I went to the magistrate court in St. Louis with Judge Edelman.
And they said that because I called a nurse by her first name, Michelle, that that proved that I was dangerous.
So they threw me in what's called the hole or solitary confinement.
And so they brought that out against me at this hearing.
And both the government lawyers and my lawyers wanted me to be incompetent.
I did not want to be incompetent.
I wanted to tell the judge evidence to show that I was competent.
But the judge said, since both your lawyers agreed that you're incompetent, you don't have anything to say, so I rule you incompetent.
So I went back to Springfield.
Well, I stayed labeled as a dangerous prisoner for calling this nurse by her first name for 13 months in solitary confinement.
All I ever got was food three days a week, three meals a day through a slot in the door and a concrete door with a steel door and a concrete cell and just a little tiny window and a slot for 13 months straight.
They let you out four or five days a week for an hour out in these steel cages where I met some very interesting people.
And I can go into quite a bit with that.
They had human fights.
They would put a little Indian in with a big dread Jamaican and they would fight over cigarettes and they just keep punching each other till there was blood everywhere and the guards would do nothing until one of them was practically dead.
Then they'd come out and break it up even though everybody was screaming and yelling.
They'd put them two people in the same cage.
I met some very interesting people like Yusuf Romirez or whatever his name was.
He was the first bomber of the Trade Center back in 1992 or 93.
What was his name?
I know who you're talking about.
That was the attempt by...
But he never had any money on his commissary.
I always had to give him cigarettes.
The Consul of Conservative Citizens and Tom Bugle kept me well supplied.
I would think with Al-Qaeda and everybody behind him and all the millions, they would have given him money on his commissary.
Well, Dr. Sell Muslim, very interesting to talk to.
I met other people.
This one man from Arkansas had killed his wife, and then they said he was incompetent to be executed.
So they had sent him to Springfield to prove that he was competent so they could execute him.
I thought that was totally ridiculous.
That's very upside down, Dr. Sell.
But basically, it was nothing but solitary confinement.
Dr. Sell, now, once again, I would have thought that if you'd been declared incompetent by the court, you would have been sent to a cozy mental facility where you'd have been in a hospital rather than a prison cell.
But if you're incompetent to stand trial, they send you to prison anyway, even though that wouldn't seem to be part of the plan of the government.
We've got a break coming up again, Dr. Sell.
When we get back, we're going to talk about your appearance on Dateline NBC and how that went and what your impressions were of the media and their coverage.
We'll be right back with Dr. Tom Sell after these messages.
Don't go away.
The Political Cesspool, guys.
We'll be back right after these messages.
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We gotta get out of this place.
And welcome back to the Political Cesspool.
I'm Bill Rowland, sitting in for this segment for James Edwards, who's having a pizza and doing some research for future programs.
If you've been listening to the show so far, you know that I'm continuing our series of interviews with Dr. Tom Sell, a true American political prisoner.
And what you've heard so far, as I said in the last show, that if this doesn't move you and absolutely stun you, you have no soul.
So this story gets so impossible to believe that it seems like it's some sort of fiction.
But we know that it's true.
And one of the things that brought Dr. Sell's case to prominence was the fact that he appeared on an episode of Dateline NBC regarding the government's attempt to force him to take drugs to make him, quote, competent to stand trial.
And we're going to get into that right now.
Dr. Sell, as you've been telling us, the government made an aggressive attempt to get you to take drugs so that you would be competent to stand trial.
And as you said, you wanted to go to trial without being doped up so you could explain the elements of your case and the facts in your case in technical terms.
And that, nevertheless, the government declared you incompetent because you called a nurse by her first name and they throw you into solitary confinement, I guess, to try to intimidate you and coerce you into taking drugs.
When in fact, if you were incompetent to stand on trial, you should have been in a mental facility, I would think.
But as I said, eventually you ended up on a Dateline NBC segment about your case and the attempt by the government to force you to take drugs.
How did NBC end up with this story?
And tell us a little bit about that.
Well, if you don't mind, there's so much that happened before that.
Okay.
Yeah, the nurse I called by her first name, that they said doing that made me dangerous.
And the mental facility is called a mental hospital, but it's really just like a torture chamber.
One day they on my birthday, my 50th birthday, they chained me to a concrete slab and injected me with this drug that knocked me out.
I was chained hand and foot in a black box and I passed out from the drug.
And when I woke up two days later, there was that Dr. Demir shining lights in my eyes saying, if you'll just take the drug, this will be all over.
If you'll just take the medication, this will be all over.
And then another time, they threw me in the middle of February in this cell with no heat, and it was freezing.
And they left me in there for three weeks all by myself, never let me out.
And finally, I was so sick, it took two guards to lift me up and carry me into a heated cell.
And all that night, that nurse and another guard kept saying, we're going to get you, Sel.
We're going to get you.
And the next morning, I hadn't had a shower for three weeks.
So when they took me to the shower, they put you in this cage, which is about a yard by a yard.
You can stand in it.
It's just a wire mesh steel cage.
And the guard proceeded to take a hose and turn scalding hot water on it and hosed me with scalding hot water.
I couldn't stand it.
It just, that did make me lose my mind, the pain of just continuous scalding hot water on my body, not being able to do anything about it.
And they even had that on a monitor and on film.
And things like that went on and on constantly, not just with me, but with a lot of other people.
But I still wouldn't break down and take that drug.
And so finally, after 13 months, it was appealed again, and it went to Judge Storr, the district federal judge, and he said, although he said I was not dangerous, but I still was incompetent.
So they couldn't keep me locked up like that.
They had to put me back in general population.
And then my lawyers appealed it to the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals.
And by this time, there were many amicus curie briefs being filed, like the Eagle Forum and a physicians group and even the American Civil Liberties Union were on my side.
And some very left-wing people from marijuana and California were on my side.
So there were people from the extreme right and the extreme left, believe it or not, that were on my side with these amicus curie briefs.
And Amicus Kiriai, for those who don't know, is a friend of the court.
That is, it's a brief submitted by people who support one side of a case or another.
But the torture that you were suffering in this prison certainly sounds worse than any of the torture administered to the so-called terrorists on Gitmo by the United States government.
I mean, the waterboarding sounds a lot more humane than what you went through, being locked An unheated cell in the dead of winter for three weeks being hosed with scalding hot water.
I think that if that had happened to the so-called al-Qaeda terrorists on Gitmo, it would be a worldwide outcry against that kind of treatment.
And certainly that's the kind of treatment, again, people received in the Soviet Union, probably you're receiving in North Korea.
So all of this, and yet no time have you demonstrated that you really were a dangerous prisoner or a dangerous person.
No, I never hurt anyone.
It was like Abu Gra.
This one old man, this old black man from southern Georgia, his name was Charlie.
And all he did was give away cigarettes to people and give away his commissary to people and walk around saying, Jesus loves you and praise the Lord.
Well, because he was giving away his commissary, they locked him up in the hole.
And he was so sick eventually he couldn't walk.
Last time I saw him alive, he was in a wheelchair being wheeled around, still giving away cigarettes, still saying, Praise the Lord.
After he died, I found out this guy had over $100,000 in his commissary account.
He was a lieutenant colonel in the United States Army in the chemical corps.
There was a chemical accident.
It affected his brain.
They put him in the VA hospital.
He set a trash can on fire.
They put him there in Springfield.
He was really a hero, but they treated him like the worst scum on earth.
And, you know, the reason he gave away his commissary is because he had over $100,000.
He thought he had a right to give things away.
This is how they.
And one day in the hot summer, he just collapsed.
I was there.
I was trying to revive him.
I was screaming for the nurses.
The nurses came flying out.
And I remember that even they say, oh, they just give him too much drugs, just too much drugs.
So even the nurses knew that people were being over-medicated.
You had prisoners having heart attacks, going into convulsions and everything from too much of this anti-psychotic medication.
You had people getting diabetes and getting cataracts.
It was just horrible.
They had no, and because it's the federal government, they didn't get in any trouble whatsoever.
So the drugs, from what you tell me, the drugs made your brain into mush.
It made your brain into mush and it gave you like these seizures.
You walked real funny and you stiffened up and all your muscles contracted.
You looked like a total freak and you couldn't think.
Well, that makes me believe that that's how you would have appeared in court before a jury.
And that certainly would have affected the jury's impression of you if you're going having spasms because you have no willpower.
You're completely under their hypnotic suggestion.
And they'd say, look, just plead guilty.
And that's what you do because you would have no willpower of your own to do anything.
I don't know if that makes any sense or not, if you've ever been in that kind of state, but that's what it does to you.
You're completely under your power of suggestion, of their suggestion.
So, in other words, it sounds like the drugs were going to turn you into the model prisoner they wanted to go before a judge and a jury and accept conviction without complaint.
That's what it sounds like to me.
Dr. So, we got yet one more break coming up in the last 15 minutes.
If you don't mind, we'll talk about your experience on Dateline NBC.
You are listening to the political cesspool.
This is Bill Roland.
having an absolutely fascinating, disturbing, and heartbreaking interview with Dr. Tom Sell, a true American political prisoner.
We'll be right back after these messages.
Don't go away.
The political cesspool guys will be back right after these messages.
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Welcome back.
To get on the Political Cesspool, call us on James's Dime, toll-free, at 1-866-986-6397.
And here's the host of the political cesspool, James Edwards.
Welcome back, everybody.
Last segment of the Political Cesspool.
I'm Bill Rowland, standing in for James Edwards for this very special series of interviews we're doing with Dr. Tom Sell, a prominent dentist in St. Louis who was subjected to the wrath of the federal government as a political prisoner.
And for many of you, this story hasn't entirely doesn't make a lot of sense because few people believe that our government is a totalitarian government, which persecutes innocent citizens at random for political purposes.
And you're going to find out the political purposes behind the government's attack and abuse of Dr. Tom Sell, attack on Dr. Sell and the abuse he subsequently suffered.
You're going to find that in the end.
This is about currently his experiences as a prisoner, horrific, cruel, and malicious treatment by the government.
And Dr. Sell, as we were talking about, eventually your story managed to get the eye of the national media in the form of a Dateline NBC episode devoted to your case.
How did NBC come into the picture of your situation?
Well, Tom Bugle contacted NBC, the producer of Dateline, and after a lot of communications back and forth, they agreed to set up an interview of me there at the prison.
And somehow they got the warden's permission to come in and what have you, and they set up a little studio there in one of the rooms.
And who was the, was it Stone Phillips who interviewed you?
Was it his name was Larson?
Larson.
I remember the show, and this has been a number of years ago, but I do remember the show.
And I was intrigued because they really brought in a lot of facts in your case that didn't necessarily pertain to the fact that the government was trying to force you to take drugs.
But did you get any impression from the reporter or from the network about their attitudes about your case or their attitudes in general?
Well, before the interview, I thought they were going to be on my side, like we are today.
As it started going on, this guy started saying things like, well, you know, I interviewed the chief of police there where you had your practice, and he said you were the most dangerous man in America.
And, you know, that shocked me.
I said, well, if I'm so dangerous, how come the mayor of that same town is my patient?
Very interesting.
Very interesting.
I tried to think quickly to come back.
And he went on and on on what the psychiatrists were saying, you know, and that they make me out to be a total loony-toony and what have you.
And I tried to explain my position, but he did not interview me in a way that was very uplifting, you know.
So you got the impression that perhaps they were on the same page as the government in terms of your case.
Yes.
Which is, you know, it's interesting because the media, the Fourth Estate, the press are supposed to protect the downtrodden and supposed to take the side of the underdog.
And of course, we know there now that they're totally in the pocket of the United States government and the totalitarian regime.
But I think the case or the the NBC Dateline program did change the dynamic of your case.
It seemed all but you know, because you have been interviewed by Dateline, your story gets more credibility even if they don't portray you in a favorable light.
Because your case did go.
It did go all the way to the Supreme Court, as I understand.
Yes, well, they did mention that.
That was one of the main things, and they did bring up the Mikas Curie briefs and things like that, you know.
And so they aired it finally a week before the Supreme Court made its decision, and then they aired another part of it right after the Supreme Court decision.
Before the Supreme Court, the Eighth Circuit Court ruled, and instead of they had it, it was two to three.
One person was on my side, two were against me.
And so then they appealed to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court agreed to hear it.
The first, a year before that, there was a young man, I forgot his name now, who went into the federal Capitol building in Washington, D.C. and shot and murdered some Capitol policemen.
And he believed there was a Ruby satellite system in the Capitol.
That's why he had to do it.
And he wanted, you didn't want to be forced medicated, so he went to the Supreme Court, but the Supreme Court refused to hear his.
A year later, the Supreme Court agreed to hear mine.
And the Supreme Court decision, what was the outcome of that?
Well, in July 2003, the Supreme Court said they could not force medicate me.
And they laid down at least four very strict stipulations concerning only when a prisoner could be forced medicated because after all, I had never been convicted of a crime.
I was a pre-trial detainee.
I was considered innocent to proven guilty, and I was nonviolent, and so they really didn't have the right to force medicate me.
So the Supreme Court came down on your side.
That had to have been regarded as a huge defeat for the federal government in this case.
Yeah, six to three on my side.
That's a pretty good margin.
It wasn't five to four.
That means at least a couple of liberal justices were on your side in that case.
All the liberal justices were on my side.
It was Scalia, Thomas, and Day who voted against me.
All the others were on my side, especially Kennedy.
Kennedy just thought it was horrific that they would even think of doing this.
Well, I guess we'll have to salute the liberals on the Supreme Court in that case because certainly they delivered a terrible blow to the federal government.
And through most of your ordeal with the government, who was president at the time?
Well, Clinton was president.
And then my brother and Tom Bugle talked to Ashcroft, who is the senator.
Ashcroft agreed to help me.
And then Bush was elected president.
That's a whole nother story.
I demanded to be able to vote because I wasn't a felon.
And they said, well, right to your courthouse.
I knew the voter registration wasn't even in the courthouse.
I said, I can't do anything.
I'm locked in a hole.
So finally, this consular, he does some work.
He comes back a month later.
He says, I got you.
They're going to mail you.
You're back.
You wouldn't believe how long and how much work and how much trouble I had to go through to get this done.
I said, well, see, even you, who's on the outside, had had trouble doing it.
How could I have ever done it being locked up in a hole?
So I demanded to exercise my right to vote, and I did vote, and Bush was then elected president.
Well, then Ashcroft becomes Attorney General.
He's not only head of the FBI, he's head of the Justice Department, the whole legal system.
And instead of fulfilling his promise that he promised when he was senator, he turned against me.
At the Supreme Court, he had the lawyers arguing that I should be forced medicated.
So he was a traitor.
What sort of pressure do you think was put on Ashcroft to have such a dramatic change in his opinion of your case?
What could have happened to make Ashtroff because he certainly must have been familiar with your whole case?
What could have happened that would have made him turn so rigidly against you?
Just changing hats from being a senator representing a constituent to being working as the attorney general to prosecute people.
I don't know.
He just said if you're from Missouri, you would know what I'm talking about.
Well, I'm from Tennessee, and I still know what you're talking about.
Believe me, we have our sellouts here, too.
Now, you mentioned earlier, and this I found strange and unsettling, is that you were at one time in the same prison with one of the al-Qaeda terrorists who had tried to blow up the World Trade Center in 1992.
Do you think maybe the government had maybe suspected that you might try to, you know, conspire with this terrorist and they would only rack up more charges against you?
I guess they didn't have the opportunity, but I find it interesting that they would put you in that same prison.
Well, I was in the same cell block with them, and I talked to him outside in those cages, but that thought never entered my mind.
I mean, no, I was more interested like when that MD that worked there for the prison doctor would come out there, and he would always put me down and badmouth me.
And finally, I told him, Well, at least I had a private practice.
That's more than I can say for you.
Everybody went, ooh.
And then I found out a month later, so he got arrested.
He had a nighttime practice, and he got arrested for Medicaid fraud.
Interesting.
Well, I guess there's justice in the end for you, Dr. Sell, when it comes to some situations like that.
At least you can say that some people got there come up with, unfortunately, we're out of time.