Feb. 20, 2010 - The Political Cesspool - James Edwards
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Welcome to the Political Cesspool, known worldwide as the South's foremost populous radio program.
And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
All right, everybody, here we go, already into the third and final hour of tonight's broadcast of the Political Cesspool Radio Program.
Already this evening, you have heard Keith Alexander and I go through a variety of topics during the first hour, followed by a second hour with Bill Johnson, chairman of the American Third Position.
And now, as we broadcast to you this Saturday evening, February 20th from A.M. 1380, WLRM Radio Studios in Memphis, Tennessee, and the Liberty News Radio Network.
It is my pleasure to bring back a guest who, when he's on, always delivers a very robust, robust commentary of the issues with, and I'll allow you to introduce him.
I know you're quite prepared for this segment.
Thanks, James.
My friends, tonight we welcome into the political cesspool Mr. Andy Nowicki, and he's a self-identified Catholic reactionary who loathes all modernist dogmas and superstitions.
He's a prolific author.
He wrote the psychology of liberalism.
He's a regular contributor to the excellent online journal The Last Ditch.
And I can tell you his articles thereon are penetrating and they have the quality of pulling back the curtain, if you will, to show the mechanics behind the obvious.
Mr. Nowicki's work has also appeared in the Oxford Review and American Renaissance.
He teaches college-level English, as he puts it, for fun and profit.
Mr. Noicki is with me tonight to discuss his latest book titled Considering Suicide.
It's available from Nine Banded Books at www.ninebandedbooks.com.
Folks, go there and check out their titles.
It's a very edgy and an unusual publishing company.
I enjoyed looking at the titles and reading the extracts.
Mr. Noicki also has a YouTube video titled Success is for Losers Number 53, The Poet of the Mall.
Or subtitles, I Fought the Mall and the Mall One.
That's a good title, too.
I like that.
It is.
I like it.
Well, thank you.
Thank you for that very nice introduction.
I know I've got quite an act to follow tonight, but I'll do my best.
Good.
Folks, I invite you to call in if and only if you have a question for Mr. No Wicki.
This is going to be an opportunity for you to get to talk with a very good author of the sort that is unusual on the political cesspool.
So take advantage of the opportunity and avail yourselves to it.
You can call in if and only if you support this program.
If you oppose us, we don't want to talk to you.
You know, it's interesting that James jumped in onto a literary discussion because his favorite author is the guy who wrote Pull Tab to Open.
Well, you know, Winston, it's hard for me to work in reading a book in between the episodes of Mari Povetz that I have to watch every week.
I do what I can.
All right, let's get into the book.
Andy, Considering Suicide.
It's a two-part book.
Part one is a diary.
It covers the days between June 9th and July 6th, being written by a man who is considering killing himself.
And part two is a commentary on the first part.
I'd like to read a few lines from the very beginning, if I can get to the book here.
Pardon me, sir.
I had it in my hand and I lost the pages.
As we say, ladies and gentlemen, live, unrehearsed, and uncensored.
You wouldn't get folly on a scripted program.
I've got it here.
All right.
From Considering Suicide.
I am a man writing about a man who is considering killing himself.
Or am I myself the one who is contemplating suicide while the alter ego I think I've created is really just a character I fooled myself into believing is someone other than myself.
This is a guy who would drive Rene Descartes crazy.
So, Andy, please take it from there and tell us why this poor soul is thinking about killing himself.
Yes, well, the part about Rene Descartes is not in the text, but that's your commentary on it, and I think it's a good commentary.
This poor soul, the person, the man, the fictional persona in the first part of the book, who's writing things in his diary about considering suicide, his situation is, although he's kind of an extreme character, certainly, he's not as far removed, I don't think, from you or I as we would maybe like to believe.
And that's sort of my take on this character.
And whenever I write from a point of view that does seem like the kind of person you could maybe dismiss as crazy or around the bend, I tend to take the position that he's a lot closer to us, that maybe we're one step or so, one false step away from falling into the same kind of pit that he's falling into in the story.
His concerns are many.
He's a thoughtful man and a sensitive man who's been disappointed in many ways by life, as we all have at one time or another.
But eventually what comes out is really two things.
And there are things that I think I aspire to not just present an isolated character here, but to present a character who in some ways represents the state of things today, particularly in the Western world, which is, I think, the relevance here for this particular program, certainly.
One of the things that troubles him is his awareness of the death of innocence.
And I think it's something that we all become aware of at some point in our lives that we've fallen from grace and that we're now stuck in the morass of sin.
Whether we're religious or not, and I'm employing religious terminology here, but whatever we happen to believe, I think we, if we're honest with ourselves, realize this about ourselves.
We think we look at what we were like when we were children and what we've become now and wonder how that happened.
And this is a kind of person who sees the death of innocence, the kind of corruption that takes place, frankly, at a younger and younger age today in our culture, which should make anybody who's a parent really, really nervous.
And I myself am a parent right now.
So he's aware that there's been a death of innocence in him, and this is something he's never been able to recover from.
And so that's part of his whole dilemma.
And the other is related to it, and it's spiritual.
This is a man who desperately needs faith, but who can't find it.
And this struggle he has with doubt and with just feeling that there is no good in the world and that He's cried out to God, but God doesn't seem to be there.
This is also part of his real struggle.
And he's disgusted with the state of things, the state of the culture.
He goes into some detail, which I know we'll get into a little bit later, employing some colorful language, really ripping to shreds a lot of the very facile dogmas and beliefs of our time that I myself am not a big fan of either.
But it does all come down to, I think, a crisis of faith, really.
And his situation is that, you know, it's alluded to in those first couple lines that you read also.
He's not ever sure.
There's the sense of unreality.
You know, when you've lost your faith and you've lost your ability to feel or to see things in their proper perspective, then everything, he's never really sure, am I talking here or am I creating a character who's talking here?
You know, is this me or am I just pretending to be somebody else?
Am I splitting in two?
You know, this kind of almost schizoid, although he's not, I'm not saying he's a schizophrenic, but this kind of feeling of being split is really a big part of his state of mind.
And it's a very, you know, unsettling thing for him.
This narrator, well, you mentioned earlier, you first began speaking of him as an individual, and you almost imperceptibly related him to the West as a whole.
This narrator is a man who seems to have lost not his intellect, but he's lost his intellectual control, his worldview.
Yes.
This man would complain, like Marie Antoinette did, that nothing tastes.
Is this condition something you see as prevalent in us Occidentals these days?
Yes, yes.
There's a, well, it's referred to in the back of the book as the death of affect, which is from J.G. Ballard, another novelist.
And it refers to this situation where there's been this, and it's kind of paradoxical in some ways because there's been a deadening of emotion, almost a feeling of numbness, like you allude to in the Marie Antoinette quote, you know, that nothing tastes.
Mr. Nowicki, Mr. Nowicki, sorry to intrude here and halt the conversation for a moment, but we've got to take a commercial break, but we're going to let you pick it up right there as soon as we come back.
Don't go away.
There's more political cesspool coming your way right after these messages.
Welcome back.
To get on the political cesspool, call us on James's Dime, toll-free, at 1-866-986-6397.
And here's the host of the Political Cesspool, James Edwards.
Welcome back to the show, everyone.
We are having a literary conversation with author Andy Nowicki, who, among other things, as Winston mentioned during his very detailed introduction, is the author of the recent release, Considering Suicide.
So that being said, and the stage being set, Winston, back over to you and Mr. Nowicki.
All right.
Andy, please finish your thought.
You were talking about, I'd asked you about the condition of of us Occidentals as typified by the narrator of considering suicide.
So please consider continue your thought.
Yes, well, it's it was like I was saying before, it's about there's an individual, and the first part of the book concerns an individual who's who's keeping a diary and who's considering killing himself.
And you mentioned the death of affect, which is J.G. Ballard's terminology that's also referred to on the back of my book.
And this death of affect is basically what results from a loss of one's spiritual moorings.
You lose the sense of wonder and joy that comes from faith and a belief in a transcendent order.
And this ultimately results in a kind of numbness where, as you said before, nothing tastes.
There's a sense that nothing is real.
And it's strange because I was saying it was paradoxical before.
Let me just explain that.
The paradox is that while you're numb in this particular state of spiritual decline or decay, it's also a painful state.
So it's odd to be in a situation where, in a way, you don't feel anything, you can't taste anything, but you're also acutely aware of your own misery.
It seems like he has lost the sense of significance and nothing is really significant to him.
And you seem to be saying that that stems from only one place, and that is a loss of spirituality.
Is that right?
Yes.
Yes, which is what plagues the West right now.
I mean, I guess you could call it the white man's disease.
And it's where I would go.
In the second part of the book, the second part is a sort of philosophical treatise called Is Life Worth Living? which takes its cue from the first part and just examines the whole issue of when you get right down to it, should we go on?
Is there a reason why it makes any sense to go on living?
And inevitably what comes up, at least in this particular cultural climate, is the state of spiritual and with it moral decay in the Western world.
And we can see that in North America, certainly, but especially in Europe, in many ways, where there's been such a falling, I mean, Europe, which used to be faith-centered, there's been such a precipitous drop-off in faith, in the intensity of belief in specifically Christianity, whether it's of the Catholic or Protestant variety.
And that loss has really left a hole that has not been filled.
And we see it reflected in all kinds of social ills, including a decline in demographics that's been often talked about, anywhere from that to the preponderance of a rise in crime and increase in incidence of immoral acts, adultery, abortion, what have you.
And also just a sense of Not really knowing, you know, at one time when the West was strong and when it had a strong belief, you know, it was in a vigorous kind of state.
But now it doesn't really know why it should exist anymore and certainly doesn't know why it should be all over the world as it was in previous centuries.
So it all relates together is basically what I'm trying to say.
There's the personal side of it, and there's also the, I don't know, the political side, the micro and the macro working together in the book.
Let's talk a little about the process of writing and the techniques you employ.
Every artist writes basically two kinds of things, I believe.
He writes things by which he can support himself, make money, because we've got to live.
And he also writes the kind of things that he wants to write.
And an author experiments.
Hemingway did it with The Green Hills of Africa.
Baulkner did it.
The great ones always experiment.
It looks to me like considering suicide is an experimental work because it is so unusual.
I've never seen a book like it.
Did you intend it as an experimental work?
Yes, well, I guess so.
You know, I don't want anybody to get turned off by the term experimental, but I think so.
As far as you want to try to find a way of writing that fits what you're writing about.
And I guess you're always grappling with ways to do that properly.
And sometimes you find the right way, sometimes you never quite hit upon it.
And for me, the whole notion of when I when I, you know, when I was trying to convey this idea, I was trying to write in a way that maybe was different from how I had written before.
And somehow the idea of writing from the point of view of this man who is in this desperate mental state was, you know, really seemed like the way to go and to have it be like a diary because there's something exciting about the idea of coming across a person's diary and getting to see all the thoughts that are in his head.
And I just thought that seemed like the way, that seemed like the kind of form that suited the content, if that makes sense.
I think you hit it just right.
You nailed it.
It's really riveting and actually it's poetic because you dispense with some of the, if there are rules to writing, you know, Orwell said writing is the most anarchical of arts.
But you really hit it just right.
I encourage people to go to www.ninebandedbooks.com.
It's all one word, 9Banded Books, and lay hold of a copy of Considering Suicide.
Now, in your book, you frequently deploy language that, frankly, it's vulgar.
And people like you and I, who have studied literature for our entire adult lives, we don't have a problem with such language being used in a proper context.
But most readers will be mightily turned off by it, even violently critical of it.
Now, you're a college professor, you're an author, and you're a Christian.
How do you justify using such language?
I just can't believe you did it strictly for shock value.
No.
No.
Well, guys, there's a lot of different ways to approach that question.
Yes, there is in the book, there is a lot of profanity and a good deal of vulgarity, especially in the first part, really.
Not so much in the second part.
That's the philosophical treatise.
But the Diary of a Suicide, part one, It's written from the point of view, again, of a guy who's really down in the muck.
That's the best way I could describe him.
And when you're writing from the point of view of somebody who's in that kind of state, you know, you have to be honest.
And so when there's, you know, I guess there can be, you know, people can debate whether it's ever necessary to use these kinds of phrases or words that are, you know, that are offensive or profane.
Mr. Nowicki, hold the thought there on vulgar language.
We're going to pick up on vulgar language, ladies and gentlemen, when we continue our examination of Considering Suicide, the latest book by Andy Nowicki.
We're going to talk about it more right after this.
Right after these messages on the show and express your opinion in the political cesspool,
call us toll free at 1-866-986-6397.
James Edwards here with you on the Political Cesspool radio program, co-hosting with me for these final two hours Winston Smith and our second guest of the evening, our featured guest, author Andy Nowicki.
And we were talking just before the break about his use of profanity in the book, but I must also tell you this: there's only three hours out of the week where I'm not cussing, and that's the three hours that I'm hosting this radio program.
So, certainly for me, the use of profanity seriously, though, the profanity to me isn't offensive to the point where I wouldn't read it.
I mean, everybody, let's just be honest, everybody cusses from time to time in the daily grind and their weekly routine.
You're going to slip up here and there.
And if the subject of this book is in fact considering suicide, as the title suggests, well, you're just not going to have a very sunny disposition about things.
Hence, you would use certain words.
And I think, Andy, to me, that just adds another layer of reality to the subject matter.
Yeah, James, that was deep.
Well, thank you, Winson.
I was just picking up on that, or wrapping up what I was saying as far as justifying the vulgarity.
Some might say rationalizing the vulgarity in the book.
Flannery O'Connor, a great southern writer, was often accused by some critics of having just a lot of ugliness, not so much profanity or vulgarity, but a lot of ugliness and violence in her stories.
And a lot of them are very shockingly violent, as anyone who's read her can attest.
But she always said, she has an interesting quote about that, where she says, the modern reader has gotten so deep, or modern, the modern era in general, we've gotten so depraved that we've lost our sense of what should shock us.
And so we need to be reminded.
And she says, the metaphor that she used is for the almost for the nearly deaf, you shout, and for the almost blind, you draw large and startling pictures.
And that's kind of what I'm, my rationale here for writing the way I do is just, for one thing, it suits the subject matter.
And for another, you know, you've got to write for the culture that you've got to try to reach the culture that you're, you know, that you're a part of.
And, you know, 50 years ago, 100 years ago, maybe, you know, it would have been different.
But today, you've got to reach this culture that seems to be, in some ways, has gone so far around the bend that the things that you would have thought they would be shocked by, they're no longer shocked by.
And so you've got to just sort of shake things up a little bit, grab the culture by the scruff of the neck and really say, hey, look, this is important.
They're shocked by the wrong things.
They're misplacing their shock.
The people who would criticize some of the language you use, those are the people who have never tried to write seriously.
They've never wrestled with finding a way to communicate the depths of despair like what this narrator is going through.
They simply don't know what's involved with trying to communicate.
And we can just rush off their criticism.
Yeah, but let's also be honest with it.
A lot of the people who would get up in arms about a couple of cuss words are the self-righteous, holier-than-thou types who are complete hypocrites anyway.
So don't concern yourself with any of that kind of stuff, Andy.
Unless a pastor is lodging.
I wouldn't concern myself with anything the general public says.
I don't.
Well, yeah, you've got to follow your muse and not the spirit of the times.
I'll say that right.
I agree.
Excellent.
Excellent way to say it.
Andy, considering suicide, to me, it's kind of a troubling read because it deals with the most fundamental questions of the human condition.
And I think there are two fundamental questions of the human condition.
Why am I here?
And is life worth living?
And that second question is one that the narrator of considering suicide wrestles with mightily, valuably.
Now, you offer no answers to those questions.
And let me get to the end of the book here.
Here's what you write.
This is at the very end of it.
Gentle reader, the question is left for you to answer.
Have faith and faith, if nothing else, as you search your hearts and draw your own conclusions.
For your life will indeed end just as this inquiry now has, and you must prepare to enter the undiscovered country where you will travel just as inevitably as you were thrown into the place where you now find yourself.
And then a little bit later you say, you don't know where you are going next, but making this journey will require courage, and courage can only be derived from faith.
Therefore, have faith and faith, and perhaps, this is as much of a consolation as can be afforded or offered, the rest will be granted to you eventually.
That's a beautiful passage.
Thank you.
But after 212 pages, leave it to the reader to resolve the questions that you posed at the very beginning.
What do you hope the readers will decide and how should they go about deciding it?
Well, I guess that I could see somebody saying that's, you know, you've ripped me off here because you haven't given me any answer.
But I mean, in a way, it is a kind of an unsatisfying answer to have faith in faith.
And because you do have to, I mean, because that's not enough.
But I guess my idea is that it's a place to start.
And, you know, I guess the point that I would want to make here with this book is I'm trying to relate to the reader, to the culture.
I mean, a lot of what I've said makes it sound like I'm speaking from a lofty podium or that I'm some thundering prophet or something like that.
But the fact is, I think I am as affected by the overall spiritual decline of our time as anybody else.
And I'm a believing, practicing Catholic, and I try to live a good life according to the tenets of the faith and to believe.
But it's not always easy.
And when your faith is shaky, where do you go to get more faith?
That's the real, that's a troubling question.
Of course, the answer, I think, that most religious people would say would be to pray.
And that's a good answer, except when you believe already, when your faith is strong, then you have more of a pull towards prayer.
But if you don't, if your faith is weak, then you're not sure about the efficacy of prayer.
You don't know whether you're talking to anybody who's really there.
So prayer is good, but it's not enough.
You've got to start somewhere.
And I guess it's sort of a dilemma.
Where do you get, because the problem as I've identified it in the book is we don't have faith.
We need faith.
You can't live without faith.
You certainly can't face death.
I don't think.
I don't understand being able to face death or face any kind of real crisis without the aid of faith.
So I guess it's good to start there by having faith in faith, by thinking people with faith are able to have this kind of courage and to do these great things and to have their pain assuaged.
This terrible, crippling existential pain that the narrator of Diary of a Suicide is suffering.
So it's a good place to start, to have faith in faith.
It's certainly not where you'd want to end up.
And I hope that whoever follows that advice would be able to eventually go beyond having faith in faith to having just faith, faith itself.
But it's not always easy.
You're a devout Catholic.
I'm a devout Calvinist Presbyterian.
And I think Scripture teaches that faith comes from God.
If you're a believer and you have that faith, that came from God himself.
God gave you the faith to have faith.
And I think you're correct.
At times of despair and crises, Americans have typically gone to God.
It happened at the finals.
And then, of course, after the tears dried, we went back to our basic profane ways.
So it goes.
Winston, before you launch that next question, let's take a time out and hear a couple of words from our sponsors.
We're going to have one more segment with Andy Nowicki, author of the book Considering Suicide, right after this break.
And then we're going to wrap up the show.
So stay tuned, everybody.
A little bit more still to come here on tonight's broadcast.
Don't go away, the political cesspool, guys.
We'll be back right after these messages.
Jump in the political cesspool with James and the gang.
Call us tonight at 1-866-986-6397.
And here's the host of the Political Cesspool, James Edwards.
I was very happy when Winston called me earlier this week to lobby for us having Andy Nowicki back on the program to promote this book, Considering Suicide.
I think the subject matter of the book is very timely for the dark days in which we live.
America, indeed, the entire Western world has lost its sway spiritually, politically, culturally, and every other way you can possibly lose direction.
There was a guy in Austin, Texas, a couple of days ago who considered suicide and thought it was a pretty dadgum good idea.
Hey, there you go.
And we don't want our people, and I'm sure, we actually blog about that, ladies and gentlemen, on our website, thepoliticalcesspool.org, if you want to read our take, which happened to be Chuck Baldwin's take on that unfortunate situation in Austin.
But the point is, we want our people to embark upon a path of hope and redemption, not death and despair.
Andy, what more about the book would you like to bring to our audience's attention that perhaps Winston's failed to ask you thus far?
I didn't fail in anything.
I think Winston's done a very good job with his questions.
He always does.
He always does.
Pertinent things.
I would just, I guess the point I'm trying to make again is this isn't a book in which this is not a preachy book.
It's not a book in which I thunder from on high like an Old Testament prophet or anything like that.
There is a sense of, although I'm certainly critical of the West and the way that the direction things have taken, I also, it's that the struggle of the West is also my struggle.
And it's like, in a sense, you know, what is the book goes from a very personal place in the first part to a much more universal place in the second part.
And it's because, you know, I have a sense that it really does affect everything.
It filters down everywhere, and it affects even those of us who are fighting it.
You know, those of us like me and like y'all and others who clearly see that there's something wrong with the way things are going and want to change things, want things to be different.
We're in some ways just as affected by the darkness of our times as anybody else.
And so the way to get through it is just to, in some ways, to get down, to be honest about it and get down there with this guy who's really, really struggling and ultimately maybe chooses to kill himself, maybe doesn't.
Maybe he chooses the path, maybe he is able to be redeemed ultimately.
It's inconclusive, but I did like your relating it, James, to the story from the other day of the man who crashed the plane in Austin.
Not because I was, you know, not because I thought it was a good thing that he did or because I'm happy about The event that took place, but just because it is one of those really compelling cases of someone who's just really, I think that man was, you know, an idealist.
He wanted things to be a particular way, and he was frustrated with the way things were going.
And he made a very bad choice, I think, at the end of his life.
But he also seemed to be in a desperate state of mind, much like the character in my book is.
Well, that was the point.
And I could draw that obvious parallel in hearing you explain some of the ideas that you present in your book with the situation there in Austin.
And obviously, you never condone violence, and there's no excuse for it.
But as Chuck Baldwin said, I thought very accurately in his most recent column, which is the one we have posted on our website tonight.
By all accounts, that man probably wasn't a bad or an evil man.
He was just a man who felt as though he had no other options.
Now, certainly he did, and nothing that he did is excusable, but you get pushed into a corner and you start seeing things a little unclear.
And I think that we're going to have more and more people choose to go out the way that Mr. Stack did.
And the government's certainly pushing people towards that direction.
Yeah, and it's a reflection of where we are.
I mean, you don't want to generalize too much from one person, but you do, but it is, you know, in some ways, it's a perennial human thing because life can be difficult, but also it's something very relevant to our own time, for the reasons you've mentioned.
Winston, I know you had a comment on that.
I've heard and read numerous commentators and pinheads and general blowhards refer to that man as insane, crazy, a madman.
But you know what?
I have to agree with G.K. Chesterton.
He said that the madman is not someone who has lost his reason.
He is a man who has lost everything but his reason.
Mr. Stack was very clear-thinking.
He knew exactly what he wanted to do, and he devised a plan to affect his own despair.
And again, it doesn't excuse it, but I think we have misdiagnosed the problem that man was affected by and affected his circumstances.
Yeah, and have you read his manifesto, his last letter?
I heard snippets of that.
He's down to flesh.
Right.
It's really, you know, he's obviously a man of high intelligence and very thoughtful and everything.
And it's a compelling read, you know, although again, not to condone his final act, not to condone anything about it, but it is, you know, again, it's something that I'm interested in.
You know, these desperate characters like that guy and whomever else you can think of, we're really not as far away.
I mean, we shouldn't look down on them too much because we're really just a step or two away from falling into that same pit that they're in.
Well, listen, here's the thing: there are countless, perhaps even millions of Americans who are in the same position as that man this very night because of the oppressive tax structure that the IRS puts you in.
I mean, I always pay them every penny that they say I owe, but at the same time, you can't hardly deny the fact that they are an unconstitutional criminal enterprise.
And so a lot of the things that he was upset about, many people are upset about.
I couldn't put a number on how many people have committed suicide over some of the same problems that he was complaining about.
The difference between him and them are that they just hurt themselves and he took an airplane into a federal building.
But yeah, I mean, you know, the problems are very real, and not to get off the subject of the book and go into a totally different issue here, but obviously there are some similarities in the two.
Yeah, I mean, it's like it is, it is, they overlap, these two different kinds of issues that we're talking about.
And that's why, you know, they are both, I think, with the political issue, the psychological issue and the political issue.
I mean, they're both relevant to our era and just to being human in general.
Well, that says it all, really.
Andy, it was a great interview.
Thank you for taking the time.
And it was a pleasure talking with you during the interview and before.
And I look forward to meeting you the next time I'm down that way.
Great.
Thank you very much.
Andy, before you go, very quickly, plug that website again where folks can get more information and order the book.
Okay, first you can get it on Amazon if you want to go that route.
Or you can go to ninebanded books, N-I-N-E-B-A-N-D-E-D Books.com.
Very interesting and often overlooked, but there's a ton of very interesting and cool books in there that I think a lot of your listeners would be interested in just to peruse and maybe to purchase.
NinebandedBooks.com.
You can also go to Amazon.
The book is Considering Suicide, the author, our guest and friend, Andy Nowicki.
And Andy, always great to have you, my friend.
Looking forward to the next time already.
Okay, well, thank you guys for having me on again.
I've enjoyed it.
It's always fun.
Winston, great job tonight.
I tell you, another program in the books, and this one was cut from a fine cloth, as they all are.
It's easy to do when you work with good people and when you have such fine material with which to work.
It was an easy interview.
The book is rather startling, actually.
I encourage everybody to lay hold of a copy.
I encourage people to read it in groups and discuss the issues that it raises, especially in light of recent events.
And James, I thank you for bringing that up.
That was the perfect application of what this book is about.
It could have been done more clearly.
And you hit that one just right.
You surround yourself with talent, Winston, and things just come out the right way.
Steel sharpens steel.
What can I say?
And in listening to you and Andy hold surf for most of that interview, I felt as though I might try to add something a little insightful myself.
So thank you for allowing me the time to do so.
It was a great interview.
It was a great show.
Great guests, Bill Johnson and Andy No Wicki, great content.
And of course, you and Keith, Winston, always at the top of your game.
That's it for our show tonight.
I'm James Edwards.
We'll be back next week with more great guests and insightful commentary and salient topics here on the Political Cesspool.
We'll see you then.
Until then, check out our website, thepoliticalcesspool.org.
Let us know how we can serve you and perhaps even how you can help us.
For Winston Smith, Eddie the Bombardier, Miller, Bill Rowland, Keith Alexander, the entire staff and crew of this program, both here in Memphis and at Liberty News Radio Headquarters in Utah.
I am James Edwards.
We'll see you next week, everybody.
God bless you.
Thanks for joining us tonight in the Political Cesspool.