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Oct. 28, 2025 - Tim Pool Daily Show
01:06:40
Food Stamps ENDING, Riots Feared, National Guard Says DEFY Trump's ORDERS
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r
rudyard lynch
14:19
t
tim pool
47:59
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rob finnerty
01:00
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Speaker Time Text
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
It's the Snap occalpse, the Snapocalypse, whatever I'm going to call it.
Snap benefits are not going to be distributed on November 1st because the government is shut down and the funds have not been appropriated.
Now, this story has been bubbling up and it's getting real juicy because there's concerns.
We could see food riots as 42 million people are cut off from their welfare benefits.
And it's worse than that.
Amazon's firing 30,000 individuals initially.
And while you may say that's bad, their big plan is half a million, all to be replaced by robots.
And again, you're probably saying, wow, that's even worse than I realized.
And then you realize when they're laying off 30,000 people just before the holidays, this is supposed to be a period when holiday workers come in and people make extra money.
Oh boy.
So why does that matter?
Well, we have an estimated, I think, some estimates of several million unemployed young people.
And the research predicts when you got a lot of unemployed young men, you get revolution, baby.
And so now, I love this.
As civil war has bubbled up in the conversation for some time, now we're starting to see articles about a revolution happening.
I don't know if it would be a revolution towards the left, to be honest, because the younger generation is largely light-ringing, right-leaning at this point.
And it seems like the reason this narrative is emerging around revolution is because the left may have been crushed.
Certainly, they will still resist and still fight.
But revolution is indicative of Trump doing something.
I don't know, a third term?
Who knows?
What I can say right now is the Trump badminton has told everybody there will be no emergency funds to maintain SNAP.
I'm hearing they're going to let it go.
They're not going to intervene.
They want SNAP to implode.
And the reasoning is actually quite simple.
There is no political mechanism by which you end the abuse of these welfare systems.
Just not going to happen.
So what do you do?
Just keep them running forever?
We keep pumping up the debt ceiling.
The American people keep paying the bill for a welfare system?
No, we find a way to wean ourselves off of it.
Okay.
Name one politician who's willing to come out and say, vote for me and I will end your benefits.
Now, some might say, well, Thomas Massey might.
Yeah, maybe.
The unfortunate reality is that in any real sense, your average politician will never tell their constituents, vote for me, and I will take from you your entitlements.
And that means the system only gets worse.
And I understand this.
You know, running a business, one of the challenges we face, and I talk about is when you're trying to cut costs, not because, you know, for us, for instance, cutting costs isn't about like, oh, no, the business is hurting.
It's like, hey, let's reassess what we're spending money on and try and be more efficient and grow the business more effectively.
And then you got to look at, man, can we really cut that?
Can we really fire this person?
Ooh, it hurts.
It's difficult.
It's easy to grow.
It's hard to retract.
So it would seem like the government's reaction is just, okay, drop a nuclear bomb on it and we'll pick up the pieces after the fact.
But what will happen in this country if it really breaks down?
In a CBS news report, they interviewed some National Guardsmen who said they would defy Donald Trump's orders.
I've warned this because we're talking about people, not systems.
And you see, so many people seem to think, they seem to think that people are locked in rigid lockstep with words on a piece of paper.
They're not.
And so they say, yeah, but you have direct orders.
You'll get court-martialed.
And they're going to look at their neighbors and be like, they're going to throw me in a gutter if I stand with Trump.
And this is what we're starting to see.
So, oh boy, the SNAPOLYPS food riots, what's happening?
We'll break that all down.
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But let's get into that news for all of you.
The story, of course, from USA Today.
Snap benefits won't go out November 1st.
The well has run dry.
Well, my friends, I'd like to do this.
Before you, I have but a simple Google search bar.
I am going to type some words into this Google search bar.
The words I will type will be the two words is and they.
Is they.
And as you can see, in real time, is they cutting food stamps?
Is they?
Is they cutting meme?
Is they cutting food stamps Reddit?
Is they cutting food stamps meme?
Is they stopping food stamps?
Holy crap, ladies and gentlemen.
Now, I know most of you know this.
This story's been bubbling up like crazy, and people are particularly worried.
But hey, fear not.
Trump says it's going to happen.
The Trump admin says emergency funds can't be used to keep SNAP benefits going.
Really?
The Trump admin says it will not use emergency funds sent out federal food aid at the beginning of November, blaming Democrats for not working to reopen the government.
Millions of Americans are expected to lose their benefits this week, leaving states scrambling to pitch in and pay the difference, even as some have already notified recipients not to expect their monthly food assistance.
This is a nuclear bomb, my friends.
It's not just that welfare recipients won't get paid.
Supermarkets won't hire holiday staff.
Products will sit on shelves and won't move.
Supermarkets will not reorder in the short term, causing a backlog of overproduction and waste at these distribution and manufacturing facilities.
Production will decline.
The economy will retract.
Oh boy.
See, here's the thing: to artificially prop up economic activity, Democrats have made the argument that they should take money from wealthy people and give it to poor people.
Now, now, hold on.
It's not really just the wealthy people, it's you.
You can't get enough money from wealthy people to prop up this welfare system.
You just can't do it.
And so they take from hardworking people to give to people who refuse to work.
And the left stands on the argument, but it generates economic activity.
Graph go up?
Indeed.
Why am I working as hard as I do every day for half of my money?
That's right, to be sent out to people who won't work.
Don't get me wrong, I know there are people who genuinely need it.
I too had received EBT benefits, not SNAP, but EBT, when I was in my 20s.
And it was for a period of two months.
I was in Seattle, thought I had enough money to find a job, but finding a job was harder than I thought.
And so I think it was, it might have been two or three months.
I think unless I said two, it might have been three because you get initial three months.
And when it ran out, it ran out.
And I said, thank you.
It was like $130 a month or something per month.
And you could only buy cold goods.
And I was very grateful that such a system existed.
But the reality was, hey, man, I paid taxes just for this circumstance.
And that's the legitimate use case that I agree with.
I worked many jobs.
I paid a lot of taxes.
It went into these systems.
And I said, and it exists now that I can use it when I fall on hard times unexpectedly.
I pay for it.
I should get it.
And then I found a job at a Pete's coffee and tea, and I worked there, saved up money, and did not need benefits anymore.
And that's the way it's supposed to go.
Unfortunately for us now, it's worse than anyone realizes.
Take a look at this from Overton News.
Newsmax Rob Finnertine just said what no one in mainstream media will admit about SNAP.
Y'all ready for this?
Your blood's going to boil.
rob finnerty ▲ ● ▼
There are 42 million people in this country that need food stamps on a weekly basis.
And we're saying people deliberately instead of Americans because most of the people that are on food stamps aren't even from this country.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Wow.
rob finnerty ▲ ● ▼
45% of Afghanistan immigrants are on food stamps.
42% of Somali immigrants.
34% of every immigrant from Iraq.
23% of Haitians.
59% of all illegal aliens are collecting food stamps.
Meaning that most of the people getting food stamps from the U.S. government and the U.S. taxpayer are not even Americans.
Think about that.
And we didn't know about any of this before the government shutdown started, but thanks to Democrats, we can confirm tonight that millions of Joe Biden illegal aliens, people who crossed the border when Joe was president, are now collecting food stamps from a program funded by hardworking American taxpayers.
There are four.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Why am I paying for this?
Why are you paying for this?
Why is any hardworking American paying for illegal immigrants?
Now, to be fair, it's a few million estimated out of the 42.
We don't know the exact number of people who are legitimately in need of these benefits, but it doesn't matter because the problem is the program itself created the dependency.
That's it.
There are people right now who are saying, listen, if you cut off my food stamps, how am I going to feed my family and children?
Why did we create a system that made this possible?
Well, the bill comes due.
You do not get to ignore it.
The problem is, nobody wants to get off the drug.
The problem there is that I am done paying for it.
So, you know what I say?
Nuke it.
Nuke the whole thing.
And boy, are there some people who get real mad that I say that?
But trust me, my friends, I'm not here to lie to you.
I'm not here to pander to you, nor am I trying to secure your vote to run for office.
I will admit that we do require your viewership.
We need you guys to buy the sponsor products.
We need you to become members at Timcast.com.
And I know if I say things that are offensive or detrimental, people will say, I'm canceling.
I'm never going to buy another.
I'm not going to watch anymore.
And you know, I wish, to be honest, I was more of a politician because I see some of these bigger shows with millions upon millions of views willing to say anything to get those clicks.
Well, I ain't going to do it.
I'm going to tell you what I actually think.
And that is, we have a diseased system.
It is cancerous to this country.
In the beginning, maybe it makes sense.
In the small scale, maybe it makes sense.
But I will say this: welfare systems are wholly impossible with an immoral society.
Or should I say, a welfare system will only work for a moral society.
The idea being, we create a program where you get food benefits because you have honor and integrity.
And through difficult times, maybe error, or even through no fault of your own, you find yourself in need.
I'll be the first to admit.
I chose to move to Seattle.
And I had a few hundred bucks saved up.
And I thought it's more than enough.
I had a free place to stay.
I was crashing with friends, and I said, it should be fine.
I should be able to find a job within a couple of weeks.
Well, it took a couple months.
It was not actually easy for whatever reason.
And within a couple of weeks, we're at running out.
I got an EBT card.
I did.
And I have no problem saying that I paid into a system and used it as it was expected for anybody.
But you know what?
I also have no problem saying I made the choice to move.
I made the choice to move.
I didn't have to do that.
I still believe there is a legitimate use case and that it's fine.
And I'm not shamed to say I paid into a system and received those benefits when I needed them, nor for any other person who receives unemployment benefits, disability benefits, or food benefits.
But the problem is it has created a dependency and a cancerous tumor in our economic system.
We now have Walmart making billions of dollars.
Look at this: Newsweek.
Walmart set to lose billions from SNAP benefits stopping in November.
Why?
Why are we funneling our tax money into massive corporations to create a system where people don't work?
Now, don't get me wrong.
I don't want to cut off anybody's access when they really need it.
Like I said, I received it.
But I'm going to be honest with you.
There is no political reality where Congress is going to say, let's turn off the spigot.
They're not going to do it.
There's no reality where any of these politicians tell the American people that Social Security is a problem.
They're all going to say, no, no, we'll make sure you get your benefits.
Well, how are you going to pay out these benefits when Gen Alpha is only 40 million people?
Open up the borders and bring in 10 million non-citizens and let them live here for free.
Stimulate economic activity.
It's insane.
And we're headed towards a hard crash.
Now, I wish there could be a controlled dive to a great degree, weaning off these systems, but it'll never happen.
So at this point, I'm not entirely convinced Trump will just let it collapse.
Really, I don't think so.
I think a strong probability that someone's going to intervene and they're going to make sure people get paid because, oh boy, is it apocalyptic?
But there's some speculation that where this actually brings us.
We have this post from the leftist anonymous account, Urana News.
You can't make this ish up, they said.
It's a post from Blue Sky.
I'm not sure you can get more Marie Antoinette than taking away food stamps before Thanksgiving while you build a gold and marble dance hall so the other crooks can bring, can bring bribe you, can bring bribe you, over a badly cooked Argentinian steak.
Well, Democrats could open the government at any point.
To be fair, Republicans could shut down the filibuster, go nuclear, which nobody wants to do, but they could.
But I think Republicans are more than happy to see food stamps go belly up.
In response, one Twitter user said, It's been said every society is three meals away from chaos.
U.S. government shutdown risks food security.
A snap benefits not issued.
41.7 million people will go hungry.
Food riots, nice way to foment civil unrest so as to impose martial law before the 2026 midterms.
I agree.
These are leftists, no-kings protesters, but I don't think they're wrong.
The reality is Democrats are freaking out.
Let me show you this.
Newsome and Bonta to send monitors to monitor federal election monitors.
Oh, make it stop.
You know, I've met many friends who are just culture warred out of the culture war, like, ah, because of how stupid it's become.
But there is a deep concern about what the left will do, what Democrats will do in these elections.
DOJ is sending in election monitors, and the Democrats are acting like it's the apocalypse.
They're saying, Newsom says, you're rigging the election by watching.
What do you mean?
What about watching you changes the outcome?
That implies you were going to do something you're not supposed to do, which would guarantee an outcome.
I would not be surprised, though I do think it's not very likely.
I still believe that there is going to be some kind of intervention to make sure in three days food stamps happen.
Because, wow, it's going to be a nuclear bomb.
I can't imagine they'd let it happen.
I really can't.
Everyone's addicted to this system.
Nobody wants to make hard, devastating moves that can really disrupt this country.
So I don't know that I could believe it.
But there is a probability.
Donald Trump wants to get National Guard on the streets.
He wants to shut down Democrat control in these areas.
He wants accountability for all of the people who are politically motivated and arresting innocent people, targeting him and his supporters.
Wow.
I didn't predict this.
You know, I had made the argument that if there was some kind of terror attack from the left that devastated one that killed several prominent conservatives, Trump would get carte blanche.
If we get mass food riots, yeah, Trump will do it.
I'm here in murmuring that the Trump admin wants it to happen.
It allows them to do whatever they want, declare an emergency.
It puts the blame on Democrats, and it's just, it ends the welfare schemes.
So they're ready.
They're ready for the damn to burst.
Well, my friends, here's where we are.
From CBS News, two Illinois National Guard members speak out: quote, I won't turn against my neighbors.
Oh, boy.
We heard this one.
Excuse me.
Two Illinois National Guard members told CBS News they would refuse to obey federal orders to deploy in Chicago as part of President Trump's controversial ICE mission.
Quote: It's disheartening to be forced to go against your community.
Community members and neighbors said Staff Sergeant Demi Palachik, a Latina guardswoman and state legislative candidate from Illinois.
It feels illegal.
This is not what we signed up to do.
Both Palachik and Captain Dylan Blaha, who was running for Congress in the same district, described growing unease among guard members for the White House federalized 500 troops, including members of Illinois and Texas National Guard.
Quote, I signed up to defend the American people and protect the Constitution, Blaha said.
When we have somebody in power who's actively dismantling our rights, free speech, due process, freedom of the press, it's really hard to be a soldier right now.
Refusing a lawful federal order while serving in the Guard can sometimes result in a court-martial imprisonment or felony-level discharge, depending on who issued the order, whether the soldier is under state or federal control, and the nature of disobedience.
When contacted by the CBS, the Department of War declined to comment.
Can I also point out how insane things are right now?
There is no Department of Defense.
Let's do this.
unidentified
Department of Defense, Wiki.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Here you go.
Wikipedia.
The United States Department of Defense, also referred to as the Department of War, they changed the name.
Seal of the Department of Defense.
It literally says Department of War.
Let me tell you how terrifying this is.
News media refusing to acknowledge that the administration has changed the name.
I got yelled at.
And you guys know this, we get yelled at a lot over the Pentagon Press Corps thing, and it really is scary.
The Trump administration said it is the Department of War.
The media is refusing to say it.
Wikipedia is, let's see if Grackopedia will say it.
Grackopedia.
Have you guys seen Grackopedia?
Department of War.
Let's see if Grackopedia will do it.
Let's pull in Grackopedia over here.
Come on, Grackopedia.
What are you doing?
Uh-oh.
unidentified
It's not loading.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Cleopatra, Department of War.
Come on.
Yeah, I guess Grackopedia is, it's new, so a lot of, oh, there we go.
Nothing came up.
Department of Defense.
Let's do this.
Let's see it.
Come on, Grackopedia.
Oh, it didn't come up either.
Well, you know, it is what it is.
Let me, you know what I could do?
I really want to see if they have this.
unidentified
Let's do, let's see, let's see what the, what the.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
All right, I'm not going to make that word.
Grackopedia, you're out, you're out.
Let's back to the story.
Palachik asked if she would refuse a direct order to deploy to Chicago, Chicago.
She says, absolutely, I would definitely say no.
I'm not going to go against my community members, my family, and my culture.
I believe this is the time to be on the right side of history.
Look at 1930s, 1940s, Germany blah.
Said, this is the point where if you didn't stand up to the Gestapo, are you just actively one of them now?
Both of these individuals need to be discharged right now.
Dishonorable, administrative, whatever you want to call it, I don't care.
Okay?
Get them out of the military.
What's going to happen if Donald Trump says, you have a lawful order, we're deploying to Chicago, and they go no.
And they rally other people to defy Trump.
Bro, civil war, man.
Civil war indeed.
Let me show you this from Gallup.
Pride in being an American by political party.
Republicans, 92%.
Independents, 53%.
Still a majority.
Democrats, 36 and declining.
Republicans are increasing.
Overall, 58% of Americans are extremely or very proud to be an American.
Very proud.
58%.
We have the majority.
We are the majority.
And we will not stand by while there are people who want to destroy our country, growing, expanding, and inviting in others.
Here's a terrifying reality.
What makes someone proud to be an American?
Born here, raised here, knowing its history?
Why are Democrats hating it?
Because Democrats have been importing non-Americans into this country who've long hated this country.
They openly say they hate this country.
People like Zoran Mamdani disparages the United States, its history, masquerading as a hero who wants to welcome and say, no, he's here to destroy.
And he will.
And there's a lot of people that are very stupid and will march in locks up.
Now, take a look at this.
In 2001, 90%, 87%, 84%.
Democrats, they were all very proud.
When Obama wins, second time, the numbers are 93, 85, and 80.
In 2020, only 42% of Democrats, but Republicans, even through the Biden years, were still extremely or very proud.
From the Times of India, quote: Trump triggers America's second civil war.
That's a bold claim.
A bold claim indeed.
And then we have this: Stimson.org.
Is America headed for a revolution?
While it's unclear how revolutions start, current trends of populism, violence, and distrust could be an indicator.
Oh boy, my friends, we are gearing up for a long fall.
And, you know, the LSATs are through the roof.
It's getting particularly crazy.
And now there's a question of how do you stop it from happening?
You know, I got to be honest.
There is a play.
Let food stamps expire.
You get food riots.
These are not working-class, moderate Americans.
It creates a perfect buffer.
Right-leaning individuals who receive benefits, and many do, are not going to go out and burn things down in a riot.
The left will.
Many leftists who don't need the benefits will also riot, like urban liberals.
Trump can then say to the hardworking American people: the idea that there are people who want to eat food by taking money from your pockets, they live without working and they burn down your cities.
Trump is setting up a clear divide, whether intentionally or otherwise, if these riots actually do happen.
I'm going to say it again: I'm not convinced we'll actually get there.
Part of me believes there is too much to be lost by allowing the system to implode overnight.
Do you mind what went on?
If it were me, because I'm a crazy person, if I was the president, I would tell the Republican Party: do not negotiate with Democrats.
When they cave, they cave.
And if they don't, they don't.
And what comes, so be it.
May God have mercy on our souls.
We cannot, and I will not tolerate a system of destruction, abuse, manipulation, degradation, extraction.
I wouldn't do it.
So that's me.
But I do a lot of crazy things.
That's why I'll never be in politics and I should not be.
Or should, maybe, honestly, who knows?
Decisive leadership is hard to come by because everybody gets in office and says the machine is too great.
We can't break it.
The suffering is worse.
But my attitude is this: If somebody's an alcoholic, you don't just sit back and say, well, it is what it is.
No, you say it's time for an intervention.
Yes, but withdrawals, well, that's too bad.
You're going to work them through it because people can die from withdrawal for sure.
As a political system, an economic system, it's not the same.
Certainly, a shock to the system this large could destroy us.
And that's why my attitude is: I can't imagine that they'd allow this to happen.
I mean, a large portion of our economy is predicated upon socialist policy.
And I'm not like the left doesn't understand this.
His socialists don't know anything about socialism.
The United States is a mixed economy.
That's what it's called, which slightly more than half is socialist and slightly less is free market.
This means what people, and these people don't get this on the left because they're nuts.
We're a left-wing economy where we take from those who work and give to those who don't.
And this props up part of the marketplace.
China is just substantially more to the left, but still has some free market components.
Some.
A true laissez-faire society, a true capitalist society, you wouldn't be, you wouldn't have businesses relying on food stamps like Walmart does.
So are we headed for revolution?
I don't know.
But the snappocalypse is a real possibility.
We'll see.
I'm going to be talking with Rudyard Lynch, who documents this for What If Alt Hist on YouTube coming up in a few minutes.
For those that are listening on the recorded segment, that'll be at 4 p.m. at rumble.com/slash the culture war and youtube.com/slash Timcast.
Check it out.
Don't miss it for everyone else.
Smash the like button.
Share the show with everyone you know.
Stay tuned.
We'll see you all in the next segment.
For everybody else, let's kick it back to this article from Stimson.
Is America headed for a revolution?
Well, as most of you already know, the snap apocalypse is coming.
November 1st, 42 million people will lose their food benefits, their food stamps.
Trending on Google, quote: Is they cutting food stamps?
Is they stopping food stamps?
And people are predicting food riots, Trump invoking the Insurrection Act, or worse.
The question is: with so many unemployed young people, will there be a political crisis?
Well, I pulled up this from Gettysburg.edu, an abstract.
It is a research paper that, well, doesn't prove anything, just adds to the validity of the claim that when you have a large portion of your population as unemployed young men, revolution happens.
The abstract says, in this paper, I investigate the validity of the widely held assumption that high rates of youth unemployment will lead to a state of state, lead a state to experience internal armed conflict.
I hypothesize that as youth unemployment rates increase, a state will have a larger number of internal armed conflicts occurring occur.
A state will have a larger number of internal armed conflicts occur annually.
This can happen via three causal mechanisms: opportunity cost calculations, private frustrations, resentment and feelings of stagnation turned into public grievance, and three, an emotional and psychological triggers leading to participation in violent insurgent activities.
I find that while youth unemployment does have a statistically significant influence on the number of internal armed conflicts in a given state, other variables have a far greater effect.
This research contributes to the growing body of literature arguing that the assumption above is empirically unsupported and that more weight should be placed on other causal factors that have far greater influence on the incidence of internal armed conflicts.
The reason I highlight this is that I think it's actually fair to say it is not the principal motivator.
By simply having unemployed people doesn't mean you'll have a revolution.
However, it is a powerful ingredient.
That is to say, the individual doing the research paper still does agree you will see in states with large unemployed youth an increase in armed conflict, but not as the driving factor, nor even the greatest.
Fair.
And that's why I'm highlighting snap apocalypse.
Cutting off food and food riots is a principal motivator.
And research suggests that when people can't get food, governments crumble.
So who will be ripped out of their seat of power?
Trump?
The Democrats?
Honestly, I don't know.
But you add that with the other ingredient of mass youth unemployment.
And, oh boy.
So to better understand, we will be joined by Rudyard Lynch of What If Alt Hist.
Let's see if we can get this booted up properly.
Looks like it is working just right.
Loading up now.
And I believe we are good.
Rudyard, welcome to the show.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Hi, how are you?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
I'm doing well.
And yourself?
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Doing pretty good.
Thanks for having me on again.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Absolutely.
Whenever we get heightened senses of some kind of civil unrest, revolution, or otherwise, you're the man to call.
So we got two big things to talk about.
One is, you've talked about this for quite a bit, mass youth unemployment and that as an indicator of internal armed conflict or unrest.
But the bigger picture right now is what's being called the snappocalypse.
Now, I'm not entirely convinced, I've said this before, that the Trump badminton and Democrats will allow food stamps to expire November 1st.
But with 42 million people set to lose access to food in three days, I'm curious.
You've been following this and what you think.
What do you think?
First, the more sensational question.
Assuming the food benefits are gone, it happens.
What do you think people do?
How do they react?
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
So I try to reserve my points for basically being a dick, and I'll drop them here.
But it's genuinely difficult to starve in America.
And I try to be sympathetic to the struggles of the working classes today and the elite, the elite driving them down.
But I mean, lower-class Americans spend 60% of their income on rent.
And America is the country in the world that spends the least on food.
And so although sort of there are people at the very bottom of the income range who might face issues due to this, we have to sort of zoom out and see this as a holistic issue where food is like one or two or 3% of the equation of the things keeping lower class Americans in poverty.
And we might see extra violence, but from what I would guess, most of the people involved in this sort of who would cause violence are either sort of political radical types where this is what they do professionally or sort of professional criminals.
And I don't think genuinely people who are trying to make ends meet are the type of people who cause political issues.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
But there's 42 million people expected to lose their benefits.
How many people do you really need to destabilize a system like this?
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
It's not the amount of people, it's the skill and the willpower and the placement, where when you look at previous revolutions, like the French or the Russian, it's all concentrated among sort of small, well-encapsulated, well-organized political organizations, often people of middle class or upper class origin.
And when they work, it's because they're able to get enough of the levers of power.
And when like you see genuinely lower class revolutions, they tend to get crushed, like the peasant revolutions, because they don't have the experience in wielding power or the levers of power.
So I mean, I think I'm frankly shocked that the average American has been able to pay their bills for this long.
I don't think the removal of SNAP would change the political calculus.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
That's an interesting point.
Actually, you know, now that you mention it, I think of North Korea.
Everybody's starving there, but they're certainly not in revolution against their government.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, that's something the communists are really good at because they realized that if we just shoot all of the stakeholders in the system, we can maintain total power because everyone who can fight back is already working with us.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
But there is still, there's some concern about a general instability or food rights that might emerge from this.
So there are, let's say 42 million people receive benefits and we make the assumption that a large portion, a large portion of them are probably more moderate to right-leaning or moderately liberal.
They're not going to riot.
They'll just be upset and they'll try and figure out what they'll go to food banks.
They'll try and figure something else out.
But with 42 million, I mean, there's a strong probability that nair duels are going to start looting stores, speculation that they'll steal shopping carts from people in the parking lots, and that will just create general instability, regardless of whether it's a revolution or otherwise.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I think that's reasonable.
I mean, yeah, I think that's totally reasonable.
I'm going to reframe this in terms of when you look at the last five years, the price of rent for a lot of Americans has doubled.
And so when you're doing a breakdown of these sorts of things, this is sort of a drop in the bucket compared to the enormous inflation and rises in costs of everything.
But when a camel's back is weighed down, a straw can break it.
And this is sort of the situation where it's not good that people aren't getting their food stamps.
But at the same time, this entire situation is very messed up.
And so you're looking at, you're zooming out and you're sort of looking at a barren field of trash and it's not pleasant.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
So let me try and simplify this.
Are you suggesting that in and of itself, taking food away from a morbidly obese, I'm going to be a dick, but taking food stamps from a morbidly obese nation is not going to be the same as any other impoverished nation because Americans have easy access to food even without these benefits.
But we are on such brittle ground, it could be a straw that causes a cascade failure in other ways.
Is that fair to say?
Yeah.
So, well, then the question is, can the suspension of food stamps, irrespective of whether it's the food as the issue, lead to or be a catalyst for civil war revolution?
Or some have speculated Trump will use it as a pretext to invoke the Insurrection Act and send out the National Guard.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
I would say it's, I wouldn't go that far.
I'd say that the, I mean, the government has been shut down for a month.
unidentified
Yeah.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
And that's significantly longer.
I mean, this is like, it just happens periodically now, like a blizzard.
But this is longer than usual.
And it's part of a total package of, I heard that people who control the planes at airports, they weren't getting paid.
Public employees, and keep in mind, the government makes up like 40% of the economy.
So if 40% of the economy is not getting paid for, that's a huge sort of add to the societal instability.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Is that true?
Government is 40%?
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Depends the metric you use.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
36.2%.
So, holy crap, that's insane.
How is a system supposed to survive when that's the reality?
I mean, that makes no sense.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
So, yeah.
This is one of those things historians look at as one of the historians sort of look at before the Industrial Revolution, the most powerful governments in the world were 3% of the economy.
And now America is moderate compared to Europe.
In France, Germany, it's a majority of the economy.
And this is one of those just huge variables you've seen change in the last 200 years, which we've sort of agreed to ignore.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Wow.
So on top of this, we have this tremendous youth unemployment.
And I just read this research paper from Getty's, what is it, Gettysburg.edu, where they said, while it does seem to contribute, countries with high youth unemployment tend to experience higher internal armed conflict.
It doesn't seem to be the greatest cause or even the most significant.
Do you think that the U.S. is facing a risk from youth unemployment?
And I suppose they call it nihilism.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I mean, of course.
I'm surprised it's not worse, actually, because I sometimes like to think that society is a conspiracy to stop Gen Z from getting hired, where you have mass immigration, where there were certain periods in the last five years when statistically 100% of new jobs went to immigrants.
And I double-checked that.
That should be statistically impossible, but it's true.
You have automating, you have AI, offshoring, and then probably a variety of other things like the gig economy, where you have this huge demographic of young people.
And it also transcends social class.
If you look at IV leagues, their graduates are also having trouble getting hired.
And that's really dangerous because you're going to get a revolution or a civil war when elite aspirants have issues.
Because when middle and upper class people who know people in power or they have the ability to organize or, I mean, something I'll throw in here is that a difference in America and Europe is America can operate on an industrial scale in the private sector.
So we have private sector militaries, we have private sector supply chains, people worth as individuals more than entire countries.
And so a huge difference in America and Europe in this equation is that in America, the private sector has the ability to fight the government and the government, and in Europe, that's not the case.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Yeah.
It does seem like all of these factors are sort of peppered around and we're bubbling up.
The way I described it yesterday is it seems like every crisis is reaching, it's getting cranked up to 11.
As if, you know, I think it was Shane Cashman who said, it's not a season finale, it's a series finale.
Like every possible problem is reaching its zenith.
And so like, you know, I'll put another way, Luke Rudkowski has a t-shirt where it's like a pie chart of 1984, brave new world, Fahrenheit 451.
And it's in the middle, it says, you are here.
All of those problems.
Based on what you've read about, say, like the Spanish Revolution, France, the Bolsheviks, does it seem that way in the United States that we're kind of going through everything all at once?
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I've had that exact same feeling.
And I was talking to my best friend about it last week.
And we call it sort of: imagine if there's a rope, and then the rope is getting twisted and extended, and it's gradually getting very thin, but somehow the rope is still there.
And when the rope falls, it's all just going to go away.
And it's weird where it almost feels like time moves very slowly and very quickly, where every single day we're bombarded with headlines, and then you zoom out and then nothing ever happens.
And so it's a weird situation and it's going to go to a head.
And I think we are in the historic equivalent of waiting at a doctor's office.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, yeah.
But you know what I think about the nothing nothing ever happens?
It's because people base their lives off reading history books or watching movies.
So I got into an argument with Grok recently because as one does, we argue with fake entities on the internet.
No, but I did this because Will Chamberlain made the point that if Zoran Mandani wants to release all the criminals from Rikers, Trump should federalize and seize control of New York.
Wall Street Mav on X asked Grock if he could, and Grok said no, which is incorrect.
So seeing this, I asked Grock, if there is an insurrection, sedition, a rebellion against the government, can the president seize control or the rights of individuals are being violated?
To which it responded, he could, but the courts are going to say Trump can't do it.
So I followed up with, except Abraham Lincoln did.
And what did Grok do?
It lied.
It said when Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, he was facing a genuine civil war.
Now, here's the point I'm making with it seems like nothing ever happens.
At the time when Abraham, and I, you probably know all this, but for the viewers, at the time when Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, it was, I think, a couple weeks after the Battle of Fort Sumter, and there was no civil war in the United States.
No one thought a civil war was even possible.
And the president suspended habeas corpus in his corridor from Maryland from Pennsylvania through Maryland into D.C. And he even had members of the Maryland legislature arrested for being sympathetic.
This was before the first Battle of Bull Run.
But when we read the history paragraph, we read it saying, Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, amassed troops dispatched in the southern states.
The southern states seceded from the Union.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
This was over a period of months.
So every day it seemed like an increment, a grain of sand, and that we're being bombarded by these crazy things, but nothing was happening.
And then two years later, they went, hey, guys, we're in a civil war.
Do you like, I just, I guess, relate that to what we see now.
And like, do you, do you think that assessment is correct, I suppose?
Like, we are history books will look back on this and condense it all.
And then people will be like, I can't believe how much happened in such a short period of time.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, that's definitely going to happen.
That's generally always what happens historically, where people tend to never predict that the war that's about to happen will.
And when they do, it's almost always sort of like people, the only people or very few of the people who predicted World War I were Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill, because they had already studied the patterns for war and history and they were studying geopolitics.
But for everyone else, it was unimaginable.
And that's normally the case.
It's also people's sort of mental frame is really short and they only think in terms of a month.
I think this is true even for the White House, where I don't think the U.S. government, right or left, makes decisions longer than they're constantly thinking about the several month headline.
And so when we're going to pull back, we're going to see this was all part of a singular trajectory that we just ignored.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Right.
You know what the way I look at it as you make that rope analogy, I look at it like we're actually winding the rope itself.
We're braiding the threads into a rope.
And you look at all these different paths we can go down and we are choosing which thread will be the color on the exterior, the thread that we follow.
So to your point, right now, we are going, oh man, what might happen if SNAP benefits don't get paid out?
50 years from now, they're going to say when they refused to pay out SNAP benefits, it led to food rights, it led to Insurrection Act, it led to governments seceding, who knows?
And we don't know for sure, but in the future, it'll seem particularly obvious it was going to happen.
And we'll think, how did we not see that coming?
But yeah, go ahead.
Oh, you say something?
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Oh, that's one of the weird things historians do that I hate, that the most insane event will occur.
And then they'll retroactively try to rationalize it and why it was the only acceptable option.
Right.
And then I'll go with that.
And I think that was utterly insane.
Where if you have a figure like the Prophet Muhammad show up, single-handedly generate a religion that stretches across the entire known world that's bigger than America, and you can look at that and not think of anything besides what happened there, you are lying to yourself.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Right.
So outside of the speculation we have on SNAP, on unemployment, you know, a year ago we had talked with you and you had that prediction about a thousand dead by was it was it April or was it May?
April yeah April.
And while you were you were wrong and that's fine.
I think you were right about the temperature being turned up because we saw a wave of terror attacks, the attacks on Tesla, the ICE terror attacks, of course, the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
So it wasn't as fast as you had described it.
But I mean, look, Charlie Kirk was just killed and now we've got more threats of death and violence.
Some guy got arrested for putting a bounty on Pam Bondi's head.
Where are you at right now?
What do you think is happening and what do you think is going to happen?
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
I stand largely by my earlier take that we're going to have a civil war or a revolution because if you look at historical patterns, if something happens five years late, that's still a blink of an eye historically.
And so if I, what I said afterwards is that my next take is that it's going to occur in the next four years.
And if that doesn't happen, I'll just be wrong and the nation will be in a better place.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
And that's a good thing.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, yeah.
And, but what I'd say on top of that is there's no way to get the temperature back down because one of the really scary things, and for you as a public figure, I'm sure this weighed on you, is that the left cheered on the death of Charlie Kirk, where even their moderates or their mainstream were, at the very least, okay with it.
And you can't go back from knowing that.
And when the temperature has turned up that much, it needs to burn out.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
I agree.
I mean, I just showed a moment ago a poll from Gallup that among Democrats, only something like 30-some odd percent are proud to be Americans.
Republicans, it's 92.
Independents, 53.
So the majority is, the majority of people in America very much support America.
But the worldview of the Democrats is a rocket shooting as far left as possible every single day, further and further and further in the most insane ways.
And I feel like we've gotten to the point where the moral worldviews are too divergent to ever come back.
There was a clip from Joe Rogan that I talked about the other day where he said, you know, people are just choosing teams because of tribe.
This is so stupid.
We shouldn't do this.
And while that may be true in the initial break between left and right, you are not going to reconcile.
You are never going to convince me that we should allow child drag shows.
We should allow children to dance for a bunch of gay men and have dollar bills stuffed in their pants, which is what they've been doing.
And for years, you'll never convince me that abortion should be allowed to nine months.
And the left's response is, you're fascists and you will never convince me otherwise.
So you can't reduce the temperature when we can't even look at the same thing and find a path forward together.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I very much agree.
It's so the Protestants and the Catholics killed each other for centuries.
And the Protestants and the Catholics or the English and the Irish share so much more than the right and the left, where the right and the left are just completely different civilizations at this point.
And they're not willing to compromise.
And it's really remarkable that they exist in the same country at the same time as the other.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Well, actually, I wouldn't describe the left as a civilization at all.
Because when you look at Zoran Mandani as a great example, he's basically the new face of the Democratic Party, arguably more prominent and popular right now than AOC, though, you know, he wasn't born here.
We don't got to worry about him being president.
But what is he promising?
He said, I'm going to make all of the buses in New York free, and I'll make them go faster.
He may as well say, I'm going to make lollipops shoot out your butts.
It's a nonsense statement.
The buses can drive faster if they want.
The problem is traffic.
You're not doing anything about that unless it's banning cars.
The other issue is it's a man-made speed limit.
But when you have people whose policy views are not predicated upon something that can sustain life or make sense, that's not a civilization.
That is the opposite of.
And so if the right position is a right in this country is a combination of political moderates, some liberals, and many conservatives, and they're having a discussion over what will make life function.
And the left is just arguing for things that don't make sense.
Abortion at nine months, child sex changes, make the bus faster, give everybody free stuff, free food, free childcare.
That is nonsensical.
That is not math.
They think two plus two equals five.
Whatever they do will eventually burn out.
So if they overtake the entirety of the U.S. system or global system, civilization collapses outright.
I don't, I don't, there's no coexisting because they are just a chaotic and destructive force.
I honestly, you know, there's an article arguing saying that there could be a revolution because of the unemployed young people.
One of the outcomes may actually be a dejected, dysfunctional ideology cannot win a battle.
And what might happen is that young men who are largely reigning leaning right, second time I did that, leaning right in this country, invoke some kind of revolution towards a right-wing system and just shut the left out.
But I'm curious if you agree.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
So the reason I say civilization is more to do with my internal sort of mental categorization system than what that word means.
Because when I compare civilizations, I look at what is your underlying view of human nature.
What do you value as your direction for the world?
How do you organize your society?
And in those terms, the left or the Marxists are more different from normal Western conservatives than they are from Islam.
So it's a statement that they're just operating in a completely different cultural dimension.
And the more you analyze how their worldview works, the more you realize that it's just a complete departure from any sane society in human history, where 99% of societies in human history would broadly agree with things that modern conservatives say about how the world works.
And almost all of those societies would think that modern conservatives are pussies.
They think we're way too into the left.
And the thing you said about sort of not being reconcilable and the temperature getting turned up is these people are functionally communists.
And we know what communism does.
And it's killed more people than every other religion and ideology in history combined.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
You look at the Crusades, you look at the Roman Empire, you look at the Vikings, and it's fascinating how American conservatives are the second most progressive, liberal, low-T society in the history next to only the modern American left.
And I'm not trying to be a dick, but, and actually, it's a bit hyperbolic because you can look at Europe right now and see that they're all really, really bad.
But let's just call it this.
In the West today, the right-leaning factions of political dominance are as far left as you can go historically, except for the left of the modern today.
So my point ultimately is, as you point out, conservatives in America are pussies relative to what every other society was capable or willing to do.
I mean, let's just be real.
They almost all had slaves.
They were willing to take people and use them as property to their own ends.
And not advocating for that, but I certainly think we are seeing a shift where a lot of young men are saying, hey, maybe we actually have to defend our values and enforce our way of life and stop just letting evil people do evil.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, it's what I tell a lot of older conservatives that if you want a victory here, you can just take it.
If you're an older conservative in a position of power worth money, if you just choose to fund young male conservatism in a reasonable and sort of competent way, that you can just win because you have this huge demographic of sort of underemployed, highly competent, dissatisfied young men that you can pull from.
And I think it's fundamentally been a disaster for the boomer cons, where there's a disconnect where the boomer cons are just utterly split off from the real world and they're effectively leftist controlled opposition in many cases.
And then the Zoomer cons are just descending into madness as they care about these like petty online status games.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
You know, I think about the increasing prominence of Nick Fuentes.
He's getting a lot of followers.
I've met young men who are big fans of his.
And it's because he's saying things that most people are afraid to say.
Now, I don't agree with him.
To be honest, I haven't watched, I don't watch a lot of Nick Fuentes.
So my presumption is on the issue of like Jews in Israel, I'm completely uninterested and probably disagreeing.
But he brings up interesting points of race that have gone viral recently, that young Gen Z guys, predominantly white, are watching him and saying yes.
And one example that I've brought up quite a bit is when Nick Fuentes, he went massively viral for this on Instagram, like probably 50 million views, where he said, he said he didn't want to live near black people.
And he said, you know what?
Most people don't.
They're unwilling to say it.
But everybody knows because they can look at the stats.
And my point is, you get these young guys.
They watch Nick say that.
They look at the stats.
They look at the housing market and property values.
And they conclude, clearly with property values, historically, people don't want to live near black communities.
So Nick's not wrong.
Maybe he's being a dick about it, but he's pointing out you can't deny the housing market realities of property values decline historically.
I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's a fact.
And then they realize the media's been lying to them about everything.
Then they can see Asians, Mexicans, black people, Jews, you name it, rallying around their ethnicity and race and then being told white people can't.
And they feel nihilistic.
They have no opportunities.
Jobs are going to immigrants.
And then here's a guy who's basically saying, America first, your identity matters.
These people are lying to you.
I think Nick's going to continually get more and more prominence.
I don't know that he becomes, you know, a leader of Gen Z or anything.
I'm curious if what you think, however, or if you think there's a different faction that might actually be the dominant faction among Gen Z resistant to the old system.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
I'm not, I don't think the Groipers can grow to become a dominant faction because they're too nihilistic and they're not practical.
I think they're also not, they're not really conservatives.
If you look at their moral values, they're fairly similar to the left, where they're modernists, they view the world through race, they want the state to intervene because Nazism was national socialism.
I mean, there's the huge void on the right that someone can fill where because you've seen a consistent failure of the ability to take that mantle, where I mean, it's sad how many of the sort of great conservative figures of the last few years, maybe that's too grandiose a term, but I'm actually, no, I don't think it is.
But Charlie Kirk's dead.
Jordan Peterson's taking a break from a break from content.
Chris Williamson is having various health issues.
I think Candace was out was too weak, was out for two weeks.
And so it's disappointing where there's this huge sort of, you've seen a loss of human capital.
And that could either be filled through very nihilistic, sort of ineffective, low trust things, or it could be filled with good things.
And we need to make an active decision out of our own agency to avoid the bad outcome.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
I think that when you look historically at every successful civilization, they were so, so much more fascistic or brutal than the American right wing that any new emergent system that is going to be dominant in the United States or even maintain power in the U.S. I mean, let's be real, like the liberal economic order was 10 times more brutal and fascistic than what we have now.
These were people who said, let's dominate the world through a system of finance and debt and massacre anybody who dares oppose us.
We don't even have that today.
People are largely, the younger generation is anti-intervention, anti-war.
If there is going to be a whatever, whatever emerges from the rubble probably is not something we're seeing today.
No individual or group represents it because it's going to be much more brutal than any of anybody wants to be.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Yeah.
I don't think the left is going to the left is going to struggle to survive because no one actually believes the things they say.
The question of if they can sort of redirect into being like stupid race communism is to be seen.
They could lower their IQ to survive.
But new forces have to emerge to clean this up.
And I would not use the word fascistic because fascism is a very particular ideology where the state controls everything.
And I could see a brutal regime emerge or a brutal ideology, but it could also be decentralized heroic violence like the Middle Ages.
Or it could be aristocratic republic or military dictatorship or theocracy.
Where the thing I dislike about the Groipers is they assume that the only way to get back at the left is to be a Nazi.
And being a Nazi is one of the worst conservative political positions to pick.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
My point on fascism was that when the left claims the right is fascist, the right is so far away from fascism.
And my point is that the liberal economic order and other systems were substantially closer to fascism than anything we have today in America.
I mean literally more so the like they say, because you do these things, you're a fascist.
And you're like, yeah, like 2%.
And previous dominant societies were like 17% in relation to what the fascists like we are so far away from what they claim is the worst system.
Like projection.
Even what's funny is even the Nazis and the fascists can be argued, are not even arguably the worst ideology that's ever existed.
Although in modern history, most people view a genocidal authoritarian regime to be the epitome of evil.
You can go back and look at the Aztecs just like ripping people's hearts out and slaughtering them.
And like, there are merciless ideologies out there.
But we, but we are out of time.
Do you want to, any other final thoughts before we wrap up?
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
No, this was a real pleasure.
Thank you.
You can check me out at my YouTube channels, What If Alt Histor History 102.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Right on, Rudyard, always a pleasure to have you.
And we'll see you next time.
unidentified
Bye.
rudyard lynch ▲ ● ▼
Thank you.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼
Take care.
That was one of the easiest wrap-ups ever.
Usually we wind it down a little bit.
But yeah, man, unemployment is bad.
And I think something interesting in that conversation is, as I was saying, whatever dominant system is going to emerge in this country, I don't think we've seen yet.
I don't think we've seen yet.
Because he makes a great point.
The American right is so much weaker than all of the dominant groups throughout history.
Communist China is way more brutal, way more brutal than we are.
And in the arena of violence, the most brutal guy wins.
Noam Chomsky said, right?
Are we willing to do what must be done to defend our world?
And that's a dark question.
Dark question indeed.
Smash the like button, my friends.
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No joke.
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It's going to be really interesting how we talk about the news.
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Talk about a great show.
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