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July 10, 2025 - Tim Pool Daily Show

01:01:35

District Judge BLOCKS Trump From ENDING Of Birthright Citizenship

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	A district court judge has just struck down Donald Trump's enforcement of his end on birthright citizenship.
	And I can already hear everybody, in fact, I can quite literally see the comments from people saying, how is this possible?
	I thought the Supreme Court said they can't do this anymore.
	I thought the Supreme Court said Trump can enforce this bill.
	In fact, they kind of did.
	But what they said was any nationwide enforcement would only be applying to a class, to the plaintiff.
	You can't just, as a district court, say, this one plaintiff now applies to the whole country.
	So that's not what happened.
	Basically, the ACLU filed a lawsuit claiming there was a class of people in future persons, infants, and the undocumented.
	Well, this judge, I believe in New Hampshire, said, only infants and all infants in this class of people, of undocumented, infants of undocumented people, you cannot enforce this against them, which creates a really interesting opportunity for Trump to just do another executive order and just keep nitpicking away at what defines the class.
	And I think he can win this one.
	It's kind of worrying the government can do this, but he probably could.
	So the Supreme Court ruled recently, not on the merits of birthright citizenship, but on universal injunctions.
	It was a clever play by the Trump administration.
	But they did say, we're going to stay for 30 days the enforcement of this executive order so that the parties in question can assess, move on.
	And the ACLU did just that.
	They created the class, they filed a suit, and now we have a class of people.
	I take issue with this, and I have questions.
	Can anyone just make any class without direct representation of a group of people?
	Who has to sign on to that class?
	I think, once again, this will be challenged, and we'll see how it plays out.
	But I am interested to see how Donald Trump handles this one by just creating a new executive order applying to a different class.
	It'll be weird.
	On top of that, we got a bunch of big stories about green cards being stripped away.
	Individuals who, the media says they've been here for 50 years, and now they've had their green card revoked.
	He was a drug dealer and has assault and battery charges, but that's neither here nor there, they say.
	Well, I say, if you are here as a guest, never get your citizenship, and then you are a criminal, we can send you back.
	So we got that to talk about.
	Plus, in the back half of the show, we'll be joined by Laura Logan to discuss the release of the Epstein memo, not the files.
	And there's actually a report suggesting they may still release some files.
	So we'll see.
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	Here's the story from the New York Times.
	Judge blocks Trump's birthright citizenship order in class action challenge.
	The federal judge reignited the legal standoff over President Trump's efforts to deny citizenship to children born to undocumented parents.
	I'm looking forward to this.
	A federal judge on Thursday blocked Trump from enforcing a contentious executive order.
	Hey, hey, contentious?
	We don't need that word.
	Ending birthright citizenship.
	Reigniting a legal standoff that has been underway since the beginning of President Trump's second term.
	Ruling from the bench, Judge Joseph N. LaPlante of the U.S. District Court for the District of New Hampshire also allowed the case to proceed as a class action, applying his order nationwide to babies born to undocumented parents.
	After a recent Supreme Court decision limiting nationwide injunctions, lawsuits structured as class actions are effectively the only ones that can halt the president's policies across broad sections of the country.
	So here's how it works.
	Supreme Court said, nah, nah, district court judges don't get to make national law.
	For those that are not familiar, the argument from the Supreme Court was like, except for Katanji Brown Jackson, but we'll get into that.
	The argument was basically, if California says you can grow pot and Maryland says you can't grow pot, how do both district court rulings apply nationally?
	That makes literally no sense.
	Okay, so we're going to block that.
	What actually happened was that Donald Trump had filed a lawsuit on the military, transgender ban, and got an injunction from a district court judge nationwide.
	They filed an appeal and the appellate court said, no, no, you can't do this.
	We're staying that injunction.
	But then a different district court judge said, no, no, we're going to issue the ruling again.
	And so the Trump admin said to SCOTUS, how does this Make sense.
	We got an appeal.
	The appellate court said you can't bar this policy.
	But then a district court just issued a new ruling right now.
	So, how does that apply?
	Which ruling do we follow?
	And Katanji Brown Jackson was the only one who was like, You can do it.
	And then it was really funny because I believe, who was it, Coney Barrett?
	She was like, This is at odds with 200 years of American jurisprudence plus the entire Constitution itself.
	It was quite funny.
	But here's where it's interesting.
	Because of a class existence, and the class they were applying for, the ACLU said all persons born or future persons born after February 20th, 2025, and undocumented peoples would be protected as a class.
	The district court judge basically said, nah, just the infants born, you know, we can't do future people.
	But it did grant a class of people, infants of undocumented parents as of now.
	That is the class.
	So it's not that this ruling is nationwide as a declaration.
	It's a ruling in the United States that applies to anyone who is an infant of undocumented parents.
	Here's where it's kind of funny.
	Trump's strategy on the universal injunction play was brilliant.
	Basically, this has been plaguing the administration since they got in office.
	Every judge everywhere just saying you can't do it, Trump.
	Well, we can't live that way.
	So Trump said, instead of just approaching this from the direction of we want to end birthright citizenship, let's challenge, let's appeal this on the grounds of universal injunctions being unconstitutional.
	The Supreme Court had to agree, basically allowing Trump to carry out his policies, but they did put a stay for 30 days.
	So immediately, the ACLU made their move.
	Now, because it requires a class, Trump is able to do the funniest thing imaginable.
	He can now sign another executive order and he could just be like, anytime anybody is born, if the parents want to file Social Security or birth certificate registration, they must have legal and valid US IDs.
	That's it.
	There you go.
	I know the left is going to say, but what about black people who can't get IDs?
	That's a lie.
	They have IDs.
	Stop being racist, okay?
	If you don't have an ID, how do you claim you are who you say you are when you file for your child's birth certificate?
	Well, it also just so happens that illegal immigrants don't have valid US IDs, nor do non-citizens in general.
	And so there you go.
	Now, of course, they will have to sue and create a class of people to do so, but it's a separate class of people.
	What actually ends up happening is certainly some people will say, Tim, yes, but illegal immigrants can get driver's licenses in some locations.
	Indeed.
	And then Trump can challenge the legality of any license and it creates a circuitous method by which you can still challenge birthright citizenship in other ways.
	And I think Trump should do it.
	Now, of course, the left will sue.
	They'll create a class of people, all individuals in this country that don't have valid IDs or something.
	But it will be a game of cat and mouse.
	I certainly don't think Trump should just sit around and do nothing.
	What's likely to happen, however, is that Trump's administration will file an appeal on this ruling and argue they have a right to do this.
	Basically, they're saying, if your mom's not a citizen or if your dad's not a citizen, you don't automatically get citizenship.
	If you're a tourist, if you're here temporarily, the kids don't get citizenship.
	Now, the argument from the courts is the 14th Amendment makes it clear all persons born in this country are citizens.
	The argument that's at play is that it meant past, not forward.
	The argument of the 14th Amendment was that it was saying everybody right now who was born here, slaves, are citizens.
	And they actually debated whether or not this meant foreigners born later would be citizens.
	The funny thing is at the time, they're actually arguing about whether or not foreigners born right now.
	So when they said, when they had the debate over foreigners being born here, the argument was, what if someone was born here 10 years ago and is a foreigner?
	Obviously, it doesn't apply to them.
	No, I think it should.
	The question wasn't, hey, in the future, should we just make it so that literally anybody who shows up here and is here for 10 minutes is a citizen?
	Yes, of course.
	It wasn't the argument until some, what, 30 years later, or was it 20 years later?
	With the Wong Kim Ark case.
	Anyway, they say the Trump administration has fought to end the long-standing custom that people born in the U.S. are automatically citizens, regardless of their parents' immigration status.
	Judge Leponte's order ensures a new round of litigation and appeals.
	The judge is an appointee of George W. Bush.
	He said he would issue a written order later in the day.
	He also stayed his order for seven days, allowing time for an appeal.
	So there you go.
	Trump, you better move quick.
	You got seven days.
	The lawsuit brought by the ACLU was filed just hours after the Supreme Court's ruling last month, testing what appeared to be the only remaining practical and efficient way for district court judges to freeze the implementation of policies they found unlawful.
	The Supreme Court's decision on birthright citizenship did not address the core dispute surrounding the constitutionality of Mr. Trump's executive action, but it paved the way for a majority of states to begin enforcing it.
	However, the court's majority said the executive order could not be carried out for 30 days, allowing time for lawsuits to be filed.
	The ACLU's lawsuit proposed that all children born in the U.S. after February 20th and their children constituted a class.
	Mind you, they additionally said future persons, which makes an interesting argument on the perspective of the ACLU as it pertains to the unborn.
	They have rights.
	They can be represented in court.
	Nay, they should be a class unto themselves.
	I'd love to see every pro-life group in the country take their own language, apply it in that way, and file suit.
	To be fair, the judge denied that class.
	For families across America today, birthright citizenship represents the promise that their children can achieve their full potential as Americans.
	It means children born here can dream of becoming doctors, lawyers, teachers, entrepreneurs, or even president.
	Dreams that would be foreclosed if their citizenship were stripped away based on their parents' status.
	I am so opposed to this.
	Listen, man, I don't want...
	And then one day they leave.
	They leave.
	And then someone breaks in.
	They break in.
	And I'm like, you're not allowed to be here.
	Aha, but I had a child on your property.
	They now work here.
	It's like, wait, wait.
	What?
	How does that make sense?
	A nation is an organization.
	Obviously, it's not the same thing as a corporation.
	But there are similarities in that a group of people have organized a jurisdiction where they deem to be rules and they have a system in place by which they govern over this land.
	For me, I have a company in private ownership.
	It's a small thing.
	But if someone broke in here and then left their kid behind, the kid doesn't just get to work here and come here whenever he wants.
	How is that a functional system?
	I reject it.
	Now, the story that I've often told, the analogy about, it's kind of funny because it's, I don't know if you describe it as ironic, more so coincidental, but I've told this story hypothetical of why you can understand from a cultural position, illegal immigration and birthright citizenship is bad.
	And that is an empty field.
	A man shows up one day and builds a house.
	He then decides, you know, hey, it's a good place to live.
	I'm going to set up a trading post.
	He sells his fruits, his vegetables, and sustains his family.
	Over a couple decades, more and more people move nearby him and creates a small community.
	Eventually he says, guys, why don't we all come together and make a baseball field?
	And so they do.
	They then play baseball with their kids.
	50 years later, there's a bustling small town with a town baseball field with your grandpa's name right on top.
	Bill Smith baseball field.
	And, you know, it's 50 years later and you're telling your kid, you know, my grandpa, he built this.
	He got the town together and they all worked together so that we could play baseball today.
	And that kid grows up and he's like, man, what is it?
	My great-grandfather or that, yeah, I think it would be a great-grandfather.
	And so one day, you know, down the line, as the town is growing, the baseball field falls into disrepair and it's sad, guys, why don't we come out and play baseball like a community anymore?
	We've got to allocate funds to fix this up and do these community events.
	So he goes to City Hall and he rallies all the people and says, John, your grandfather was there and he helped build this too.
	And Rick, it was your great grandfather that helped get the funding and the sponsorship that we needed.
	And they all cheer and throw their hands in the air.
	Yay.
	And so the, you know, the city hall, the mayor, he bangs the gavel.
	All right, what say you?
	All in favor of voting to allocate public funds from the town tax coffers to fix up the baseball field and restore Bill Smith baseball field.
	And they all scream and throw their hats in the air.
	And then the other side of the room, the 51% of the town that are Haitian migrants, say, no.
	And then he goes, all right, 5149 baseball field is not to be fixed up.
	And everyone goes, whoa, hold on.
	My family's been here for generations.
	We built this.
	We had a community.
	And the Haitian migrants say, and they're right to say it, they say, this doesn't benefit us in any way.
	We want a migrant welcome center with free resources to those that are coming from other countries.
	Now, the reason I say they're right to say it is that they are seeking a better life for themselves and they are going to focus on what's best for their families.
	What is not right is that they were dumped in these communities or illegally entered or had kids who were just granted citizenship.
	Outside of the baseball field thing, the reason why I say it was not ironic, but coincidental is that I went home to my home neighborhood in Chicago and the baseball fields were overgrown with weeds and nobody played baseball anymore and it's a soccer field now and not even a well-kept one.
	The grass was overgrown.
	It was kind of sad.
	Not that I was a good steward.
	I left.
	But the issue that I bring up, morally and culturally, don't think of the baseball field.
	Think of free speech, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and everything this nation is.
	We vote as the inheritors of this nation to preserve it.
	But people who come here illegally with no respect for our laws and our way of life do not.
	And they will vote against it.
	So when their children by default just become citizens with voting rights, they vote not to repair the long-standing institutions which made this country great.
	It is a threat to the existence of the greatest nation on the planet.
	Legal immigration?
	Based.
	Within the confines of a functional assimilation.
	We can't just say, it is now legal for anyone to enter the country like Democrats did.
	They say, it is legal.
	It is legal.
	We open the door.
	No, no, no.
	It is the overrunning of a culture that is the problem.
	So long as we can control for immigration, that people come here legally and respect us, we're good.
	That's why birthright citizenship makes no sense.
	But we do have another story for you, my friends.
	Newsweek, man living in U.S. for 46 years has green card revoked.
	I can't believe that they would do this.
	It's not just that, my friends.
	Listen, former Cincinnati children's chaplain detained by ICE.
	What is happening to our country?
	Well, what they kind of left out of the title was the man has convictions for distributing cocaine and marijuana, assault, and disorderly conduct, according to DHS.
	Oh.
	So he's been living here for 46 years.
	He's not a citizen, and he's a criminal.
	Out.
	This is ridiculous.
	You're to come to me, but he's been here for so long.
	He has been a criminal for a long time, weighing us down and causing us problems.
	Why did we ever entertain a guest who was going to sell hard drugs to people?
	The moment he sold cocaine, they should have revoked his green card and said, bro, you're a criminal.
	Okay?
	You're not a citizen.
	Now, Trump is making the argument.
	He'll take citizenship away from people.
	And with certain respects, I agree with this if they fraudulently obtained their citizenship.
	But I do think there's a question of if someone is a citizen, where is that line?
	To be fair, Trump said it's abuse of children.
	And I'm, yeah, I agree.
	If you come here, get naturalized, become a citizen, and then it turns out you're a child rapist or a pornographer or whatever, bro, the least of your worries is that we send you home.
	To be fair, I think Trump could be a bit more strict in the penalty for such crimes as we normally do with American citizens who commit such crimes.
	But under those laws, defrauding the American government is one, and the American people, he says he'll strip you of your naturalization.
	Newsweek reports, a man who has lived in the United States since he was six months old is facing deportation after his green card was revoked.
	Vorosak Fomosith from Laos came to the U.S. with his family in 1980 as refugees fleeing the aftermath of the Vietnam War.
	Born in a refugee camp, he grew up in the United States, attending school and building a life in Springfield, Massachusetts.
	Until recently, he worked as a machine operator in manufacturing.
	Fomosith 46 has a lengthy criminal record.
	Convictions for distributing cocaine and marijuana, assault, and disorderly conduct.
	Jeez.
	The Trump badminton is enacting plans to carry what is called the largest deportation operation in U.S. history as part of the Republicans' hardline agenda.
	In addition to people living the country without legal status, immigrants with valid documentation, including green cards and visas, have been detained.
	Newsduke has revealed dozens of cases involving green card holders and applicants who were swept up at ICE rates.
	Now, the funny thing is, the really frustrating thing is, I had a family member say to me, what about that legal immigrant that just got detained and had their cards revoked?
	And I said, who was it?
	I don't know.
	Trump went after some guy.
	DHS is just deporting out he was here legally.
	And I said, yeah, did he commit a crime?
	And they were like, I don't know.
	Well, maybe if you're on a temporary visa, like green cards are temporary, mind you.
	You can get permanent residence, but in some circumstances, they are considered to be temporary because you're not a citizen and they're subject to revocation.
	In this instance, the dude's a criminal.
	I mean, they straight up say he's like, yo, he's got a lengthy criminal record distributing cocaine and marijuana.
	And they're going to say, but he's lived here his whole life.
	He has no home back in Laos.
	What's he going to do?
	I don't know.
	Maybe he should have thought of that before he was dragging us down and burning down our cities.
	Why?
	Why are we told over and over again that we as the inheritors of this country, the people who were born here, have family here?
	And this includes the children of legal immigrants and the children of slaves and Native Americans.
	Why are we told we must bear the burden of non-citizens who came here as guests and then committed crimes against us?
	If someone was renting from you in your house and then started bringing hard drugs in, you kick them out in two seconds.
	No, like, oh, you can't evict him even though he's bringing hard drugs in your home.
	Are you kidding me?
	That's the argument from the left.
	Squatter's rights, I guess.
	Then you get this one.
	Turns out this guy, the chaplain, was actually, let me read it for you.
	They say, friends and supporter of Imam Ayman Solomon said, officials with U.S. immigration with ICE took him into custody.
	He came to the United States from Egypt a decade ago, according to federal court records, and received asylum status in June.
	His supporters, blah, blah, blah, they say his life is in danger.
	Yeah.
	Here's Bill Malugan, not included in the headline.
	He's an Egyptian national whose asylum status was revoked during the Biden admin.
	He apparently, he's been a flagged on FBI terror watch list during a background check that he claims the fingerprints don't match his.
	He sued the feds multiple times and a judge dismissed most of the claims.
	One lawsuit is pending.
	He met with ICE and the FBI for several hours yesterday before being arrested.
	So he's on a terror watch list and we're supposed to just let him stay?
	It is fascinating to me in any circumstance that we must give the benefit of the doubt to non-citizens who are guests receiving our good graces.
	Now, they're going to say this.
	They're going to say, but he wasn't proven to have done anything wrong, Tim.
	If you come into my house as a guest because it is a thunderstorm outside and you're like, please don't send me into the rain.
	You know what I'm going to say?
	I'm going to say, you're cool to chill, man.
	Once the rain's let up, though, I think you should go back.
	Like, you can leave, but I know I'm being a nice guy.
	Then someone goes, hey, you know who that guy is?
	He's a terrorist.
	He's a murderer.
	He's violent.
	And they say, here's why we think so.
	Now, instead of adjudicating it, at that point, I'm going to be like, all right, guy, I don't know anything about you, but this guy showed me some stuff that kind of freaks me out.
	I'm going to have to ask you to leave.
	I know it's raining.
	I'm going to have to ask you to leave.
	He's like, hey, but I could get struck by light.
	I could die out there.
	I'm like, yeah, well, you know what?
	I'm sorry.
	It's not my problem.
	And I don't have a responsibility to prove that any of this is true.
	I am being nice to you by letting you in here in the first place.
	And I'm allowed to say no.
	You've got to go.
	More importantly, he sued and the judge dismissed his claims.
	Meaning, it's even beyond that.
	It's me being like, okay, let's go over the evidence.
	And he's saying, I'm not a terrorist.
	It's wrong.
	And then the other woman goes, I don't know.
	I looked at all this.
	That's not true.
	I think we've got two against one.
	Dude, you got to get out.
	You're freaking us out.
	The idea that someone would come here and it's on a terror watch list, had his asylum revoked, so he has no right to be here.
	And we're supposed to bear the brunt for this person.
	I just don't understand.
	I don't believe we should be living in this world.
	But hey, here's how CNN phrases it.
	Law used to kick Nazis, kick out Nazis could be used to strip citizenship from many more Americans.
	I do kind of love the paradox here in this story about how the left screams, everyone's a Nazi.
	And so we've got this law and we're like, we will use it against you.
	They say for decades, the DOJ has used a tool to sniff out former Nazis who lied their way into becoming American citizens.
	A law that allowed the department to denaturalize or strip citizenship from criminals who falsified their records.
	That power under the new Trump admin may be broadening.
	According to a memo issued by the DOJ last month, attorneys should aim their denaturalization work to target a much broader swath of individuals.
	Anyone who may pose a potential danger to national security.
	So like, I don't know, someone on the terror watch list, maybe?
	Directive appears to be a push towards a larger denaturalization effort that fits with the Trump administration's hardline immigration policies.
	These could leave some of the millions of naturalized American citizens at risk of losing their status and being deported.
	People who have committed violent crimes are members or associates of gangs and drug cartels or have committed fraud should be prioritized, the memo said.
	Now, there is a challenge here, right?
	There's a challenge.
	If you've got people who are citizens now, it's like you're in, right?
	You're in the club.
	I actually, I challenge this.
	I know it's kind of, there is a thought where it's like somebody could be wrongly accused and then stripped of citizenship and kicked out.
	Yeah, I don't care.
	I really don't.
	I am sick of the right being so scared of being called a fascist that they don't defend their own country.
	I am not calling for authoritarianism.
	And it's what they always do.
	Like I was talking to the trigonometry guys, and I said, Donald Trump needs to be a wartime president.
	He needs to Consider that they are in a political or ideological or cold civil war.
	They arrested his lawyers.
	It's time he uses the powers, he uses wartime powers.
	And they said, you're saying that Trump should violate the Constitution.
	I did not say that.
	I'm saying Trump should stop going, well, we don't want to arrest that guy because of the political ramification.
	No, no, no, you should say, that guy committed a crime.
	The law says he should be arrested.
	You're under arrest, i.e., Comey and Brennan.
	Comey should be arrested and charged.
	I hope Cash goes after him.
	The point is, in the norms of this country, they'd say, well, we don't normally go after politicians and former FBI and stuff because it's destabilizing.
	No, no, no, no, no, no.
	Enough, enough.
	Trump should go arrest them.
	As for denaturalization, just because it's a law doesn't mean it's just.
	That being said, if someone is a criminal cartel member who got citizenship, they are actively waging war against us as a member of these narco gangs and cartels.
	I say, yeah, we revoke their citizenship.
	Now, if you're born here of legal parents, let's say your parents immigrate here legally.
	They're on green cars and they are guests.
	You are born.
	I'm fine with you being a citizen, having birthright citizenship in that capacity.
	So long as they are not temporary residents, they are legal permanent residents and or citizens themselves.
	Permanent residency in good standing.
	And I think your kid can get citizenship.
	And I look to this viral video of an Iranian guy.
	He said he lived in a refugee camp in Turkey, came to America and waved the American flag proud and grateful to be American.
	That is tremendous.
	We want more people to cheer for America.
	And he said he supported Trump.
	And that's what I want to see.
	Trump won the election.
	You don't have to support him.
	Not everybody does, okay?
	You're allowed to not like the guy.
	But I do appreciate that if an immigrant comes here, he says, listen, if an immigrant came here legally as a refugee and said, I wave the American flag.
	I don't like Donald Trump, but he's the president and he won and I respect it.
	That's a handshake right there.
	Welcome to America, brother.
	We're going to disagree.
	We're going to argue, but we uphold the values of the Constitution as what they're supposed to mean and the values of this nation.
	I am for immigration.
	However, it's a fact.
	Even legal immigration can be destructive.
	So we don't want a mass influx of random people.
	So right now, LA is joining a suit to stop immigration raids.
	I think Trump needs to consider anybody obstructing ICE as part of a seditious conspiracy when two or more are involved in the obstruction of federal law enforcement and take that action.
	But my friends, there are still many questions about what's going on in the Trump administration and whether or not he is even in control.
	So we'll be going to the interview portion of the show.
	That'll be up at 4 p.m. at rumble.com slash TimPool or youtube.com slash Timcast 4 p.m.
	We'll be joined by Laura Logan to discuss Epstein and Ukraine and immigration and whether or not Trump, there's a theory going on right now that Trump is being controlled or is compromised.
	And I don't know if I believe it, but it'll be interesting.
	For everybody watching live, we'll continue.
	But for those that are watching this in the recording section, thank you all so much for hanging out.
	Smash the like button, share the show, and we will see you all in the next segment.
	As for all of you that are live, let's roll.
	From the post-millennial, DOJ reports to court that it's still reviewing Epstein records for possible release.
	Judicial Watch reveals, despite the fact that Donald Trump said, why are you still talking about this?
	Despite the fact the DOJ put out an unsigned, undated memo claiming there is no Epstein client list.
	Apparently, there are still some records that may come out.
	They say the DOJ is still reviewing the Epstein-related records for possible release.
	The announcement comes just after a leaked internal memo from the DOJ and the FBI where they said there will be no further public disclosures.
	Something is going on.
	If this is true, and Judicial Watch, I trust, something is going on.
	My friends, there is, okay, again, if this is true, there is an effort still to release information, but an unsigned memo gets released saying they won't.
	It feels as though there are different factions within the DOJN government that are conflicted right now.
	Could it be that Trump and his people, Pam and Cash and Dan, are actively trying to get these documents released, but are still at war with a deep state that has some kind of control?
	Could it be as simple as Trump's compromised?
	The threat upon his life and his family has whipped him into shape, as with Dan Bongino and Cash.
	Were they bribed?
	I doubt it.
	These guys are already well off.
	So what is really going on?
	Honestly, I'm not entirely sure.
	But we are going to bring in famed journalist Laura Logan right now to talk to us about the issue.
	So let's boot up the interview room, as I often do.
	Takes about 10 seconds.
	We are loading.
	And here we go.
	Laura, can you hear me?
	Yes, I can.
	Thanks for joining me.
	Well, thank you for having me.
	So there's a story right now that I was just reading.
	Judicial Watch says that the DOJ is still reviewing some Epstein documents and may release them.
	At the same time, Donald Trump seemed a bit taken aback that a reporter asked a question about it.
	So there's this theory emerging across many high-profile individuals on X that Donald Trump is being controlled by somebody or the DOJ is compromised.
	I'm curious what you think about all this.
	Well, you know, I'm a journalist.
	I'm a journalist and I'm pretty old school.
	So I'm always conscious of what I don't know.
	And I don't really like to speculate.
	But at the same time, it's obviously an issue here.
	There's, you know, we're getting one story after another out of the Justice Department.
	People are very upset about this.
	There are a lot of victims that are very upset about it.
	Trump was annoyed, obviously annoyed that he was asked about this during a press conference where he was actually trying to speak about other things.
	But I mean, that's standard.
	You have a story of this magnitude that people care about as much as they do.
	It's not going to go away.
	And the president should be prepared to take those kind of questions.
	Right.
	I mean, so while I stand his frustration because this is a consistent problem that he's had to deal with the media where they never want to cover what he's doing.
	They always want to hack about something.
	In the past, it was Russian illusion, Ukraine impeachment, which all made up stories.
	Those were just, you know, information warfare operations designed to disturb, disrupt, and destroy his administration.
	So that sort of frustration is kind of understandable coming from the president, but at the same time, this story is different.
	You know, Jepson story is not going away.
	You don't have a guy who has a whole island, traffics all these girls.
	Basically, and traffic is a nice word for rapes, right?
	As an organized system where girls are consistently raped and abused and expect that this is just going to go away.
	It's not.
	And the Department of Justice hasn't done very well on this.
	I agree.
	I'm curious.
	What is causing it that Dan Bongino and Cash Patel are do these interviews where Pam Bondi comes out?
	And it seems like what they're saying just isn't true.
	It's also, they're not even presenting it in a way that seems authentic.
	She's not convincing, right?
	Right.
	Yeah, when you listen to Pam Bondi, she's really not convincing on this.
	I don't know.
	I mean, the truth is we don't know, right?
	I mean, if anyone is honest, we really have no idea what's going on.
	All we do know is that it doesn't make sense.
	Something doesn't add up yet.
	And this is the part that's kind of tough for me.
	I know Cash Patel to be a good person and one with moral courage who cares about this kind of issue.
	So it doesn't make sense that Cash Patel would just flip-flop.
	I know Dan Bongino personally, and he's not a guy who lacks moral courage either.
	And he was very outspoken on this from the beginning.
	So, you know, it's odd that they would take such a dramatically different position from everything they said before.
	And you got to wonder, okay, what is the information that you have?
	And it seems to me that the only way to resolve this is to let the public have the information they're looking at.
	Where the people are tired of being told, you know, the file is on my desk or we've given the information to Congress or if you could see what I can see, you would know that Epstein killed himself.
	That's just not going to cut it.
	And I do always try to think to myself, okay, what is the play here?
	Is there something else at work?
	Is there, you know, are there other moves being made that we're not aware of?
	What else is happening at the same time?
	So one of the key things is that you have a conspiracy investigation into John French, right?
	And they put it there lying to Congress.
	But what is he lying to Congress about?
	I mean, he's lying about his role in a seditious conspiracy to overthrow illegally elected presidents of the United States, to subvert the will of the people, to be part of what would be the largest coup in the history of this country.
	I mean, that is a massive investigation.
	And that's really the most important thing that's happening right now.
	Not to say that Epstein is not important, not to say that the victims do not matter, because they absolutely do matter.
	And not only that, what does Epstein really represent?
	Something much bigger, right?
	Because you're talking about a system of extortion and corruption that drives policy and governments and decisions all across the world.
	So yes, on the one hand, it's about the victims.
	It's about the children, which for me, you know, I'm a mom and a big mama bear.
	So it's close to my heart.
	But at the same time, it's really about what moves markets, what moves nations, who decides who gets into power, who doesn't get in power.
	I mean, this is about a system of corruption where children are traded and sexually abused and violated and tortured, sometimes killed.
	And that is something that we have to deal with as a nation.
	And Epstein is a window into that.
	And people are not going to stop until they get all the answers.
	Yeah.
	So, you know, when Trump was, you know, exasperated, saying you're still talking about this, part of me says it is kind of brutal if you've got 100 plus deaths in this mass flooding.
	There's flooding now in Georgia and North Carolina and New Mexico.
	Even here in Wayne, we had a flood watch last night here in West Virginia, which is shocking because we're kind of elevated.
	And then it's like, here we go.
	Let's talk about something else.
	So I can imagine Trump being upset, but I don't think they're handling it well.
	And so I can't imagine all of them as being incompetent enough to not understand the way they've presented this casts doubt on their credibility.
	You know what I see in all of them?
	They look uncomfortable.
	Yeah.
	And that is very interesting to me because, you know, one of the big things that I do in my work is I try to look at motivation.
	What is motivating this position or this statement or this action?
	Because motivation is a key indicator for whether or not you trust someone, right?
	Like when I was going to sort of, you know, I was going to embed Taliban or other or interview a suicide bomber recruiter, child recruiter.
	When I looked at these people, I had to make decisions about whether or not I survived that encounter.
	So what was the motivation?
	Why would the chief in charge of recruiting child suicide bombers for a terrorist organization want to sit down with me?
	Does he gain more from the interview or does he gain more from blowing us all up, being behind a suitcase bomb, right?
	Or whatever.
	So motivation has always been a really important indicator for me, both in life and death and in the truth and lying.
	And so when I have the motivation, what is motivating these statements by Dan Barno, Cash Patel, and Pam Bondi?
	Do any of them have vested interests in lying about this or in reshipping?
	So one of the biggest statements that stood out for Pam Bondi is that they don't have any information on whether Jeffrey Epstein was working for basically the CIA or Mossad or all of the above.
	And that was the one that Was the most troubling because it's just not believable.
	Then again, there's been massive reporting, right, that they seized blackmail tapes from Epstein's apartment and other places that were searched.
	And so to say that this is all child porn and no one's ever seen it, well, that's also not very credible.
	That's troubling.
	And she looked like she wasn't comfortable with the answers that she was giving, which is to me an indication that she's either asked to say this for some reason or she's being directed to say it.
	I mean, we just don't know the truth.
	That's the problem.
	Because I don't understand why they'll just lie.
	I mean, they could just lie.
	It feels like they're lying now, to be honest.
	But why not come out and say something like, you know, Dan Bongino could come out our cash and say, we got in.
	We're looking at the documents.
	Boys, this is wild stuff.
	We're going to have to launch an investigation, a criminal prosecution, and it may take time.
	So unfortunately, we're not going to let the bad guys get away with it.
	So we'll keep working on it and then just backshelf it.
	Like, they can just say, oh, it's such intense and horrifying information.
	We're going to have to keep investigating.
	And then you just get nothing from it.
	People forget.
	To come out with this memo being like, nah, nothing happened, nothing to see here with no name on it, no date.
	I don't understand what they wanted to have happen.
	Well, it thinks.
	That's the problem.
	A memo that comes out with no name and no date and doesn't come out on the Department of Justice official website.
	It doesn't come out from Pam Bonnie, from the Attorney General or anyone.
	It stinks.
	And, you know, and what I've learned too is that absence of normal is abnormal, right?
	So that, I mean, one plus one always equals two.
	And right now it's not.
	So there's something else at play here.
	I do have to say, maybe it's because, maybe it's a personality of mine, but I do have faith in people.
	I just, maybe because I know Dan Barno personally, I mean, maybe because I look at his past statements and conduct, I don't find inconsistencies in his previous conduct statements.
	I don't find inconsistencies when it comes to the president, the Jeffrey Epstein issue.
	You know, they like to say that Trump was on the island, that Trump was in the logs, and they drag out that one picture of Trump with Epstein, and they like to imply, but they leave out the fact that Trump fell out with Epstein.
	He PNG'd him from Mar-a-Lago.
	He obviously fell out with him, and he's had a child trafficking task force that he set up in the first administration.
	And he has always shown that this is a big issue for him.
	When it comes to crimes against children, President Trump has been at the forefront of that.
	And so this is odd.
	It just doesn't really make any sense.
	You know what scares me the most is that I trust and respect Dan Bongino and Cash tremendously.
	Having had Cash on the show several times and we've had Dan on, Dan and I, not only do I know him, but we have many mutual friends and he's always been one of the most stand-up and honorable noble guys.
	So when I see this, I think it's hard to believe that it's all true.
	Epstein just killed himself.
	There's no client list.
	But if that's not the case and Dan is lying, it is terrifying to think about what would make Dan Bongino lie if he is.
	What could do that?
	Well, you know, this is a COVID war.
	This is a clandestine war.
	This is not a war that, I mean, we are really right now in a full-blown war.
	We are in the joining of fifth generation warfare, which is information warfare, where information is the entire battle, right?
	Which is really the battle for your mind.
	And we are in the midst of the beginning of sixth generation warfare, which is the battle for your soul.
	And when it comes down to crimes against children and trading in children for business deals and government deals and power deals, whatever it happens to be, you are really in a battle for the soul of every human being, right?
	Because if you know this is happening and you turn a blind eye or you enable it or and so on, then your soul is compromised.
	I mean, you're not doing what we are built to do.
	Every single one of us has a responsibility as a decent human being to fight for and protect children.
	And not just our own children, but everyone's children.
	I'm not going to walk past somebody abusing their kids.
	I'm not going to walk past a child that's in need.
	I'm never going to do that.
	I can't do that.
	So it's outside of my conscience.
	So when you see this kind of thing happening, I go back again to what is the task in front of Donald Trump right now.
	As the president of the United States of America, he has the task of resetting the entire global system.
	There's not an agency under him that is not infiltrated with deep state officers.
	He's being undermined from both sides of the aisle.
	The establishment in the party.
	The Senate is slow rolling his confirmations.
	And, you know, he doesn't even have his own people in positions of real significance that matter across the federal government.
	I mean, who knows what he's being told on a daily basis?
	Because I hear over and over and over again that people are struggling to get access to him.
	As usual, they try to side with the president in these situations.
	You don't know if he's being lied to.
	You don't know what he's being told, what he's not being told.
	But so I just revert back to, you know, here's a guy who has been consistent on almost every single issue.
	And people might say, well, he changed his mind on this, changed his mind on that.
	Yes, that in itself is a consistent feature of Trump.
	If he learns something new and he says, well, you know, I didn't know about this.
	Or now that we know this, now this is our position.
	That has been him all along.
	So it is, we don't yet have the tools to understand exactly what is going on here, but it is worth considering what else they're doing.
	One person, well, actually several people online were pointing out, it's disconcerting how many of Trump's enemies are latching onto this story against him.
	And what does it mean when you find yourself in political alignment with people you know to be amoral or seeking the destruction of your country?
	It doesn't mean they're always wrong, but I guess I wonder, you know, Cash and Danner as good as it gets in the FBI.
	I mean, they're going after Comey, and Cash Patel said publicly that Comey's responsible for the largest criminal conspiracy against the United States.
	I mean, that's bold.
	That's a bold statement.
	And we want to see all of this good come out of it.
	The Epstein thing is worrying because of how important it is and how Trump said he'd release it and how he ordered these things released.
	And now all of a sudden we're getting this 180.
	I guess the challenge for me is I don't want to sacrifice what Bongino and Cash can, are, and will do over one issue.
	But Epstein is like the issue.
	It is massive.
	It's hard to reconcile.
	I think that's a smart position, though, when you say that you don't want to basically obliterate everything else.
	Because you're right.
	There is common ground now.
	There's sort of odd bedfellows, right?
	That you've got people on the right and people in Trump space, and now they're aligned with people on the left.
	But that in itself is a very interesting issue because I never want to play into the hands of my enemies, right?
	So I'm always conscious of that.
	But I have my own principles and standards, and I'm not going to just toss that out of the window.
	So where does that leave me?
	Well, if I look at this from another angle, would all these calls from the Democrats now for the truth to come out about Estee give them the cover that they need to release certain things?
	I mean, that's a possibility.
	Now, two years from now, that's not going to be a very credible possibility, but there is a short window of time where that is worth considering.
	And then going to what you said about, you know, Comey being part of the largest conspiracy against the United States, this is true.
	And this is not that it's bigger than anything, because nothing is really bigger than the fact that children are traded for power, money, and business and all these other things, right?
	So nothing is bigger than that, ethically, and morally.
	But in terms of those who have the task of dismantling all of this, that's pretty overwhelming in many respects.
	That doesn't mean I'm giving anybody a free pass.
	Because if they don't dismantle this system, if they don't hold people accountable, you literally just slip someone's jugular, i.e.
	the United States, and you put a band-aid on it before you as a Trump, and we're still going to bleed out.
	I mean, it's the end of freedom, the end of sovereignty, it's the end of all these things that we hold dear.
	So you can't give people a free pass, but at the same time, I'm not one of those people that's just ready to throw myself on the bandwagon and start, you know, basically dumping all over people when I lack significant amounts of information and I can recognize the task in front of them is enormous.
	The fear, I guess, is that there is something controlling things, a superstructure, as some have called it, that there is something, someone or an organization more powerful than the U.S. government that has Cash and Dan and Trump even being like, okay, we can't cross this line.
	I also wonder if it's actually that with Donald Trump getting access to this information with Pam Bondi, Dan, and Cash, maybe they look at the list of information and the evidence, which we don't know exactly what it says, and then Trump concludes, if we actually were to expose this, it would damage the United States.
	There would be collateral damage that would affect us, and we don't want that to happen.
	I don't know, honestly.
	And the challenge is it's hard to be forgiving in any capacity on this story.
	Like, we don't believe you, and we want answers.
	At the same time, what if there is a couple scenarios?
	One is the release of this information will implicate prominent U.S. politicians, world leaders, allies, and corporations in a way that creates collateral damage to the U.S. government and economy, especially internationally, or could lead to conflict.
	Like, if this really is what I think it is, and say there's like a Saudi prince on this list trafficking and doing horrible things.
	You mean every Saudi prince?
	Yeah, sure.
	Every single one.
	And then Trump is like, they are going to break the petrodollar and flood the international market with oil and destroy our economy if we release this.
	Should Trump still release it then?
	I mean, my attitude is yes, still.
	But is that a potentiality that maybe Trump is weighing the political pros and cons and like, he doesn't want to do it?
	I don't know.
	Well, when you have a system like this, right, which affects people in every country, you have the most powerful intelligence agencies in the world that have long used this system of trading in children and corruption in order to blackmail people into doing what it is they want, to move markets, to move governments, and to move policy and so on.
	So it is inevitable that the impact of this has the potential to do all of the things that you're saying.
	So one theory is that it will cause a collapse in the markets and that Trump doesn't want to risk that happening to the markets.
	Now, maybe it's not just because he wants to be the guy with the great economy.
	Maybe it's because at the same time, they're working on these other things.
	And if you collapse the economy in this moment, it's going to have catastrophic consequences.
	We're not equipped to really evaluate whether those traits are worth it.
	I mean, you say nothing is worth it, but we don't really know.
	What you're talking about, second and third order effects.
	That's the way they talk about it in information warfare and in the military, is that when you do one thing, you trigger something else, right?
	So without knowing exactly what it is they're sitting on and what those second, third order effects would be, we're not in a strong position to judge.
	So that's one thing.
	The other part of it is that, you know, the president himself and his team obviously are having a difficult time communicating about this and coming up with a real strategy.
	And that points to maybe the difficulty of the issue, but also maybe to do with some things internally.
	You have to start questions about, you know, what it is that the president is being told, how that's being handled internally.
	That's a fair question because they look so uncomfortable.
	In a way, that's kind of reassuring because they're not very good liars, if that's the case, right?
	And on this issue, particularly, they don't appear to be pulling it off.
	And then I would say that, you know, one of the last things is geopolitically, I can tell you that I have worked on trafficking issues where there are camps in third world countries that are run by Islamic terrorist groups that are supplied by cartels from Venezuela and Mexico,
	where there are pipelines of children that go straight to the Saudi royal family, you know, and people in power all over the world.
	So when you say this can have, you know, dramatic consequences, that's not far-fetched to me.
	That's very realistic.
	Because when you understand this world of trafficking, and if you look at the pornography industry, right?
	I mean, if you follow the money from the porn industry, it's kind of a roadmap to that CFA Epstein network.
	And this is a very serious place to start looking for how this ties into business, into industry, into global organizations, you know, the World Health Organization, the United Nations, I mean, governments across the world.
	There is probably no more significant currency than children when it comes to this.
	And so I think that you're on something there.
	Man, it's kind of scary to realize that the international power structures are predicated upon the exploitation and abuse and rape of children and torture.
	Correct.
	And the people want the truth and they want it exposed, but it seems like no matter who's in power, for one reason or another, they feel some reason not to expose it.
	Well, look at this, it'll blow your mind.
	Okay, when you look at Iran, for example, why does the Ayatollah Khomeini take the position that he does?
	Is it because he's all powerful?
	No, it's because the IRGC, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, is one of the most prolific criminal organizations in the world.
	And the Ayatollah works for him, for them.
	We think it's the other way around.
	We think the IRGC serves the Ayatollah.
	You think one old man in Iran has all this power?
	No, he doesn't.
	The people who have the real power are the ones who are trading in kids.
	They're trading in weapons.
	They're trading in drugs.
	They have the relationships with the cartels in Mexico.
	Cartel Del Sol in Venezuela has over $3 trillion in liquid assets.
	Wow.
	$3 trillion at their disposal to do whatever the hell they want.
	You know what I mean?
	So where is the real power?
	The most important thing you said is that our world functions on the rape of children.
	And that's the system that is being dismantled.
	So do you think that trust the plan?
	You know, what Trump is doing is the right path.
	Even if we're not getting the Epstein stuff, we should just say, I wish it was perfect.
	It's not, but Cash Dan, Pam, and Trump are doing good?
	No, I think, well, for me, I never tell people what they should do and how they think and how they should feel, right?
	Everybody's got to make their own decisions.
	I am the kind of person I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt to a degree because I know that there was seditious conspiracy and, you know, U.S. law, right?
	I believe it's chapter 115, treason and sedition.
	And I know that those people who were responsible for that were responsible for Ukraine impeachment, for, you know, denying Henbid's laptop, for they're going, the same people are right now walking free, able to continue to subvert the Trump administration and the will of the American people.
	And I know that if they do not deal with that, everything is lost.
	That that is a conspiracy that has global ties, that we know that from the five ice countries like the UK, that was heavily involved in this conspiracy.
	That I know you have to dismantle that.
	And you know what happens when you remove Pam Bondi?
	You paralyze everything.
	Nothing moves forward.
	And then you have to get a replacement.
	And then they have to get right on.
	And the same thing with Cash Patel, the same thing with Dan Bongino, the same thing with Pete Hegsta.
	So for me, there is a much bigger game going on here.
	There's a lot we don't know.
	I'm not saying trust the plan.
	I'm saying keep the pressure on.
	Absolutely keep the pressure on because the only thing that seems to move the Supreme Court is public pressure.
	The only thing that's going to overcome activist judges that are trying to rule from the bench is public pressure.
	The only thing that is really going to give this administration, that's going to give Trump the cover to do what he needs to do is public pressure.
	So I say stand up taller, speak louder, and do not surrender under any circumstances.
	I'm still somewhat optimistic.
	I mean, you know, I asked Grock, what's the biggest trending story?
	And it said the Epstein stuff.
	Even today, like people are not going to walk away from it.
	But you mentioned the importance of going after this conspiracy.
	There's also additionally in the United States the issue of illegal immigration and the efforts that Trump is taking.
	So when I look at all of this, I am frustrated over the Epstein stuff.
	But I also recognize if Trump loses this fight right now, then it's 100% completely lost.
	And we're between a rock and a hard place.
	Trump is the best we're going to get.
	Cash and Dan are the best we're going to get.
	And maybe we'll have to keep fighting and putting the pressure on to get the truth.
	But for the time being, I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and lose on the immigration battle and the conspiracy charges and the people that are seeking to subvert this country.
	Remember, the immigration battle is part of the same seditious conspiracy, right?
	They took human beings and they turned them into weapon systems.
	And then they used them as cover to infiltrate this country with, for example, more than 300,000 trained members of the People's Liberation Army, with special intelligence units, with special operations units, with IRC units, with weapons, with terrorists, With hackers, with every bad actor that you can think of.
	Not to mention, hundreds of thousands of children were trafficked across that border.
	And you put, you know, untold amounts of money in the hands of the worst people on earth with that open border, which was all in service of a globalist agenda to rules without sovereignty and without sovereign nations.
	So yeah, you're 100% correct.
	There are very significant issues and they're all tied together.
	So you can't give up on any of those things.
	You just have to keep pushing.
	Right on.
	Well, Laura, I really do appreciate you coming to hang out and share your insights.
	Where can people find you?
	They can find me on X at LauraMogan.com.
	I'm on Substack and Rumble and YouTube and TikTok until I get kicked off.
	You know, you never know how I'm there, right?
	You're at the message.
	Yep.
	Well, thanks for joining me.
	We'll definitely bring you on next time if something comes up, but we appreciate it.
	Thank you, Tim.
	Take care.
	Take care.
	And that, of course, was the intrepid Laura Logan.
	Good insights.
	A challenge.
	I don't have a good answer.
	Man, I'm pissed on the Epstein stuff.
	I want Trump to win on the immigration stuff, the criminals, the abuse, all of that stuff.
	I want him to win on the Comey, the RussiaGate stuff.
	The Epstein stuff pisses me off.
	But what do you do?
	What do you do?
	I don't think there's a bigger story than Epstein.
	His connections, who is he working with, how is it going on?
	The structures behind the scenes.
	I just don't understand.
	I feel like they've done a piss-poor job of dealing with the PR on this issue.
	If it really was that there's something behind the scenes and they have to keep this under reps for now, Dan should have come out.
	Cash should have come out, Pam or Trump.
	Trump could have come out and say, this Epstein guy was a sicko.
	And the things we're learning are disgusting.
	We've got to do it right.
	And that means we can't just, within a few months, say we're going to release all this information because we're still investigating.
	And we have to win.
	And that requires strategy and it requires confidentiality.
	And that's why you're going to have to be patient as we do what you have sent us here to do.
	Say that.
	And I'd say, all right.
	But to come out with this memo, nothing to see here, boys.
	I'm like, okay, nobody believes you.
	It's just weird.
	I don't get what they're trying to accomplish.
	But anyway, thank you to Laur Logan for hanging out, guys.
	Smash the like button.
	Share the show.
	Let's gear up for that raid on our good friend Russell Brand, who I believe should be ready to go right now.
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