Activists Target Top Patreon Accounts, Proving Hypocrisy Over Sargon Ban
Activists Target Top Patreon Accounts, Proving Hypocrisy. A few top podcasts have histories of breaking Patreon's rules and some activists have begun to highlight these channels. One thread on reddit was recently removed as it provided proof of a top Patreon podcast overtly breaking the rules. This has created an interesting problem as people in favor of free speech won't resort to the same tactics employed by those seeking to deplatform people.Patreon has made itself a battlefield in the culture war by entering the fight but the left and social justice activists have no sympathy for Patreon. Some on the left have already been highlighting podcasts that break the rules.The Number 5 largest account has recently joined in to support Dave Rubin, Jordan Peterson, over the banning of Sargon of Akkad, aka Carl Benjamin. Could this start a cascade that ends with Patreon facing its end?
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Patreon has just started a battle that they can't win, or it's better put that they have inflamed the culture war and made themselves a battleground, and what's going to end up happening is after the battle ends, Patreon will be a desolate wasteland.
Now, It's entirely possible that this blows over for sure, but what we're seeing is that activists angry with the banning of Sargon of Akkad have started to prove that other podcasts in the top of Patreon have broken the rules to much more extreme degrees.
And there are even some left-wing activists who are piling on now.
It would seem that there are people on the left who are upset that Patreon doesn't ban the people on the right, and now there are people on the right upset that Patreon isn't upholding its rules for everyone.
A lot of people have said that this is the end of Patreon, that they're going to lose all their customers.
I don't know if that's true.
But I can say that it's possible a cascade effect happens.
Because as one person leaves and their patrons get mad, their patrons stop spending money on other accounts, those people then create alternatives, and it causes people to move over.
The way I see it, you can ban people from Twitter, and other people will be annoyed.
But when you strip someone's income, you cause an actual panic, because this actually affects people's lives.
And we might see something similar to a bank run on Patreon.
Look, I don't condone what Sargon said.
I understand what he was trying to do.
I still think it was a bad move.
I think it was wrong.
But what happens is, because Patreon isn't upholding any written rules and the rules don't make sense, it concerns me.
It makes me scared that my income could disappear and I better get off platform before it hits me.
So today, let's take a look at what's going on because there's some big breaking news and Patreon is looking at some serious trouble.
But before we get started, head over to TimCast.com forward slash donate.
The link will be in the description below, and you can come here to support my work.
There is a PayPal monthly subscription option, there is cryptocurrency appeal box, and I even have a shop where you can buy clothing that I've actually designed.
Let's be realistic first.
We're looking at Graftreon.
This shows us the publicly available information.
That means the money you're seeing, $12,642,348 monthly through Patreon, is only what's public.
to do.
And if they're taking about 5 or so percent, give or take, I mean, they're making a decent amount of money per month.
And when we look at the graph, we can see that while there are some dips typically around the beginning of every month, there are some dips around the 14th, there's another dip around the 15th.
We don't know if any of these big drop-offs, around 40,000 users each, have anything to do with Sargon or any of these other accounts.
And that's why I think it's silly to act like it's the end of Patreon.
But they're certainly going to face collateral damage.
Because Patreon has many, many accounts that break the rules often, maybe even on a daily basis, or I mean, on a per-content basis.
Why aren't they upholding the rules against these people?
You know, I've mentioned, and actually referencing Eric Weinstein, he did a simple search for racial slurs and found them all over the platform.
I have found Holocaust denier anti-Semitic conspiracy creators, And in the top 25, there are numerous accounts that have broken the rules.
Activists are actually digging up evidence to use against them.
Though some of these posts have been taken down because, look, the people who are digging up this information tend to be the people who oppose deplatforming.
But I've looked at the evidence.
I actually have the evidence.
I'm not going to post it because I don't want anyone banned.
But there are about three podcasts, maybe four, that have overtly broken Patreon's rules somewhat to an extreme degree, and I'm surprised they haven't been banned.
And if these activists take it one step further, they start contacting some of the business partners of Patreon, then Patreon is in serious trouble.
But The fifth-largest podcast announced support for Dave Rubin and Jordan Peterson, and this is more bad news for Patreon.
Sword & Scale is an award-winning crime podcast.
They said, As the fifth largest content creator on Patreon,
we do not feel the policing of speech should be part of the business model.
Looking forward to joining the alternative platform proposed by Rubin Report and Jordan B. Peterson as soon as
it's launched.
And yes, Sword & Scale is number five, top for all of Patreon.
They have 17,036 patrons and If we take their patrons and multiply that by an estimate of about $5, they're looking at around $80,000 per month.
it's available. On January 23rd, Sword and Scale made their income private, but at the
time they had a per patron amount of $4.97. If we take their patrons and multiply that
by an estimate of about $5, they're looking at around $80,000 per month. Now, I don't
know if that's exactly how much Sword and Scale is making, but with another large creator
saying, hey, we're going to leave.
This is big.
This is bad news for Patreon.
If you've been following the story, you'll know that Sam Harris abruptly deleted his account.
He was the 13th biggest podcast.
You now have Sword & Scale announcing their support for Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin, saying they'll leave and they are the 5th biggest account.
But now what we're seeing is that activists are, in a sense, kind of taunting the other side with producing evidence to get left-wing podcasts banned.
Rational Disconnect, who I've mentioned before, said, So this is their smoking gun.
Timcast and NotSargon cry nonstop that leftists on Patreon break the rules way worse, and this is it?
Patreon clearly said they take context into account.
Matt saying a phrase that I won't quote, over election results, was clearly a joke.
In response to that tweet, I said, I only mentioned Chapo after Sargon already did.
And I didn't mention anything else that Chapo did that was bad.
Activists have produced Reddit threads.
Other journalists have brought this up.
And there is a decent amount of evidence that there are some big podcasts breaking the rules, Chapo included.
The reason I'm not publishing more evidence is because I'm not trying to get them banned.
I don't think that Patreon should be enforcing unwritten rules that none of us can follow in the first place.
But when these activists on the left try to own me, I guess, all they're doing is signaling to the other side it's a taunt, effectively.
Oh, is this all you have?
Prove it.
And some left-wing activists have actually asked me to publish this evidence to get them banned, to get Chapo banned, and other podcasts.
In fact, some other left-wing personalities have actually published information about some podcasts accusing them of breaking the rules and being racist.
And I'm not going to publish this information.
But I will say, yes, I have it.
I'm looking at it.
It's on my desktop right now.
I am not going to get suckered into this game of contributing to the deplatforming of these other podcasts.
But there's at least three that have overtly broken the rules, potentially four.
Another big problem that Patreon is facing, and why I say they may have triggered a battle that they can't survive, Another big problem facing Patreon, and why I say they started a battle that they can't win, is that the press keeps coming out about the story.
Even if the stories are negative for Peterson or for those pulling off Patreon, it is still negative press about Patreon.
This story from the Daily Beast is rather interesting in its contradictory nature, but I wanted to read through it and provide some criticism, but also highlight the story.
They say, stars of intellectual dark web scramble to save their cash cows.
Conservative internet figures Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin stand to lose tens of thousands of dollars over a Patreon controversy.
Now, this story is rife with errors.
For one, Jordan Peterson is not conservative, nor is Dave Rubin.
They've both actually stated to the contrary.
I don't know if you can just say someone is if they aren't, but sure, if it's your opinion, by all means say that, but I do believe that's factually incorrect.
But they make some interesting statements that are, well, contradictory.
Members of the so-called intellectual dark web are taking a financial beating and scrambling for funds because their followers are reluctant to continue pledging money on Patreon after the crowdfunding platform jettisoned another right-wing provocateur over hate speech.
Fans of the Internet's contrarian wing don't want Patreon taking a cut of the money they send to their foes for premium content and have stopped making pledges.
There's an interesting point being made here.
The money is being sent for premium content.
This proves a point about Patreon.
Patreon made a statement saying they don't host much content, but even the Daily Beast, in their criticism of the intellectual dark web, points out The purpose of Patreon is premium content, meaning, for the most part, what is being sold on Patreon is the funding of content posted to Patreon.
And I want to take a point to highlight that numerous times on their website, they say, when you see a page on Patreon that you feel violates our community guidelines, please take time to report it.
They say, there is no room on Patreon for hate speech.
And although this isn't definitively about on the platform, they do say you are responsible for all the activity on your account.
Even the Daily Beast acknowledges the purpose of Patreon is for premium content.
Although this is kind of a smear piece, and it's kind of contradictory, they do make an interesting point.
At least this shows the perspective of even those critical of the intellectual dark web is that Patreon is a platform for hosting content.
They go on to say, the boycott may be hurting Patreon's bottom line, but it's also hurting personalities like right-wing author Jordan Peterson, comedian Dave Rubin, and other big names who have resorted to begging their acolytes to keep the cash coming or are looking for another way to raise money.
Peterson, for his part, in a video posted online Sunday, begged his fans to be reasonably patient and keep up the monthly payments they sent him through the crowdfunding site.
It's not so good for me on the financial front, said Peterson, who lost nearly 10% of his Patreon supporters over the past week.
My business side is going, that's not great.
Rubin added in the same video.
Peterson, Rubin, and other pillars of the Intellectual Dark Web, an amorphous group of conservative internet political personalities defined by their willingness to buck political correctness and tweak liberals, have seen their Patreon payments battered this month by a controversy starring one of their movement's own members.
Now, there's a lot wrong with this article.
For one, the Intellectual Dark Web is kind of a facetious name, though it's pretty much being used far and wide by now.
But there are many people associated with it who are actual progressives.
Brett Weinstein and Eric Weinstein, for instance, are overt progressives who advocate for socially liberal policies.
So it's not a conservative group.
It's clear that this is trying to kind of rub it in.
It would seem like the person who wrote this article doesn't like the intellectual dark web and is trying to paint it as though they're being seriously hurt by this.
Before I get to the main point, I just want to say, Jordan Peterson is a best-selling author.
He's making a substantial amount of money on Patreon.
By some estimates, more than $40,000 per month, maybe even up to $80,000.
If he's losing 10%, he's still making nearly a million dollars per year or more combined with all his other income sources.
Don't forget, he has a massive YouTube channel with a million plus subscribers.
And the same could be said for Dave Rubin.
While he's not making nearly as much as Jordan Peterson, I don't think painting it as though they're panicking is the right thing to do.
This is more of an ideological battle.
The intellectual dark web types want to set up an alternative for political reasons but also for business reasons too.
I think politics and ideology plays a big part in this.
Like Sword and Scale said, we do not feel the policing of speech should be part of the business model.
Sword and Scale didn't violate any rules, they're not super concerned, they're the fifth largest Patreon account, and they're still looking forward to joining the alternative.
But the important point about this article is that while you may be in opposition to the SJW types or whatever you want to call them, the regressive left, it's important to realize that even among these leftists, If activists start contacting the payment processors the same way the left did to Subscribestar, what's the defense Patreon will have?
controversy, that their bottom line is being hurt, and that overall this is just damaging
for the company.
This bad press is only bad news for Patreon.
Patreon has become a battleground in the culture war, and they're taking damage now from all
sides.
If activists start contacting the payment processors the same way the left did to Subscribestar,
what's the defense Patreon will have?
Like there's one podcast where the evidence is staggering.
I kid you not.
There's just video after video of mocking people based on their race, using racial slurs, homophobic slurs, laughing just for minutes, mocking the LGBTQ community.
And this is a top podcast.
And I'd have to imagine Patreon can't defend themselves if all of these podcasts are getting targeted.
So I think one of two things, well, one of three things could happen.
If activists target the payment processors, then Patreon will either have to ban these accounts or they lose their contracts with these payment processors.
It's also possible nothing happens because the processors don't care and Patreon just carries on.
Or nothing happens because maybe the activists don't go after these companies the same way the left does.
But at this point I think it's fair to say Patreon is taking substantial damage and the cascade is possible.
Because as people leave, more people leave.
And if too many people leave, everyone leaves.
The issue I take, just to clarify, is not that what Sargon said was defensible.
I don't like what Sargon said.
I won't defend it.
He shouldn't have said it.
I believe in forgiveness, but I also think it's important to point out the rules don't say anything about off-platform content.
To the contrary, as I've shown you, it says on-platform numerous times.
More importantly, Jack Conte said to me, in a statement that I published on Twitter, that it's not clear.
In that case, it means your money is not safe on Patreon.
At any moment, they could ban you for something that isn't on their website.
To reiterate, Sargon said something I do not appreciate, that I would not defend.
But it wasn't against their rules.
They said to me it was not clear that he broke the rules.
So why did they terminate his income on Patreon?
I'll say it again.
Your money is not safe on Patreon.
Someone could upload a video of you to their channel and they could claim that because you do collaborations like everyone does, you are responsible and you will be banned.
And that means your income is gone.
And there's a big difference from being banned on Twitter From having your income taken away.
But let me know what you think in the comments below, we'll keep the conversation going.
What do you think is gonna happen?
You know, look, I want to show all the evidence of wrongdoing from these accounts, but I don't want to be party to deplatforming, so I just won't do it.
Comment below, let me know what you think, we'll keep the conversation going.
You can follow me on Twitter at TimCast, stay tuned, new videos every day at 4pm.
And I'll have more videos up on my second channel, youtube.com slash TimCastNews, starting at 6pm.
