Gamers VS Thots, The Culture War Is Escalating (Ft. Sargon Of Akkad)
Men have recently begun reporting "thots" to the IRS. Today Sargon Joins me to discuss underlying issues as to why many young men are upset with online "thots" or women who make money online or through snapchat by showing body parts to men. Sargon and I discuss changes hitting society and how feminism and mens rights clash as social values and perceptions change.
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Yesterday, we saw the rise of the hashtag Thought Audit.
For those that aren't familiar, a thought means that hoe over there.
It's a slang term.
What was happening was young men were reporting cam girls to the IRS for tax evasion.
For those that aren't familiar, what these women do online is they'll often show flesh, their body parts, and things of that nature, if you know what I mean.
trying to avoid direct innuendo, but I have to say it.
They do this for money, right?
So they'll claim you get a photo of this body part or this body part for this amount of money,
and they do what's called premium Snapchat, where if you send them money on PayPal,
they'll show you something on Snapchat.
Well, apparently many of these women aren't entirely familiar with how taxes work,
so people started reporting them to the IRS, and thus there is now this big backlash
from people on the left saying that it's incels and misogynists targeting women,
but you actually have some moderate and centrist women saying,
hey, it's not cool, why are you snitching on people?
So today, let's take a look at that story briefly, because I'm being joined by Sargon of Akkad, aka Carl Benjamin, and we're gonna have a discussion about why young men are doing this, why they're so resentful, and what we feel is happening in society between the dynamics of men and women.
But before we get started, please head over to patreon.com forward slash TimCast if you want to support my work.
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Let's start by taking a quick look at the story before we jump over and talk to Sargon of Akkad.
This, from news.com.au, right-wing trolls report online sex workers to tax authorities in thought audit.
Online sex workers have slammed a viral campaign by right-wing incels and men's rights activists to mass-report them to tax authorities.
The hashtag Thought Audit, which appears to have been started by a Facebook user calling themselves David Wu, began to trend on Sunday after being promoted by controversial pickup artist Roosh V. Online thoughts are finding out that all income generated from their body parts is taxable.
This created a bit of a controversy, With many people saying that you didn't have to pay taxes unless you made a certain amount, but many people were actually incorrect.
It is taxable income.
The story ends by saying certified public accountant Kenneth Hester chimed in saying, yes, this is a statutory taxable income, but that in order to receive the reward, the whistleblower is required to provide the taxpayer's social security number to the IRS.
Now I think there's a lot of issues with what's going on here.
And in order to break it down, I called Sargon of Akkad to have a discussion about the dynamics between men and women and why there are men who are reporting these women.
The problem isn't really about tax evasion, obviously.
This is a cover for a social malady that I think has been affecting many young men across the West in the generation that came after ours.
And I think that generally it's a problem that is very difficult to talk about because as soon as you start talking about it, it's very easy to say, well, It's very easy to kind of stonewall and say, well, that's not a real issue.
You know, I see a lot of people... First of all, the important thing that needs to be said is, nothing's going to happen.
The IRS is likely not going to do anything.
What people don't seem to understand, because I actually dealt with this... Listen, there is a fine line between being a cam girl and being a YouTuber, right?
The difference is, I'm enticing young men with stories of migration and news and politics, and the women are pulling down their low-cut tops.
But there's a fine line, right?
We're in a relatively similar space, but we're providing a different kind of content, but our revenue streams are relatively similar.
And so I actually, I went to a tax prep person, a couple of them, and they straight up said, it's all taxable, but what you get from these companies is already reported to the IRS anyway, right?
So in 2013, I accidentally overlooked a payout that I got from AdWords, from YouTube, and it was like a couple grand.
All that happened was, a year and a half later, I got a letter saying, you forgot to pay taxes on this income.
And I went, oop!
And I, you know, wrote a check and sent it to him.
And I'm seeing a lot of these tweets where they're like, you know, the one tweet that kind of started this is the woman saying, I'm being audited, why, you know, who reported me, and I really, really doubt.
That has anything to do with anyone reporting her.
The IRS isn't going to just audit a bunch of random people because a screenshot was sent in.
And so what I think, what's frustrating to me about this is that it just feels like, it feels, and I know people are going to get mad about this because I'm going to draw a connection to Antifa.
It feels like an emotional reaction where people feel like they're taking on a symbol of what, you know, causes them strife or they feel is unfair, but it's not actually doing anything.
Right.
And on top of that, there are a few women on Twitter who are actually relatively pro-free speech libertarian centrists who are now being targeted and made fun of.
And I'm like, why?
Because they do, you know, online cam girling?
Like that's like prostitution is the oldest profession.
You know, I when I was younger.
Yeah, I got to say I'll say this.
When I was a teenager, it was frustrating to go and work at an airport where I'd make about $40 per day take home after lifting, you know, 50, 10s of thousands of pounds, backbreaking labor.
Well, not backbreaking, but heavy lifting, you know, loading planes and being a grunt and being insulted.
And then I can see all of these young women without an iota of that hardship.
Just working bartending jobs, making 10 times as much money.
A friend of mine went to college to become, you know, in a science degree, ends up working doing heating and air conditioning, and his sister became a pizza server, making 200 bucks a night.
He's making 40 bucks a day.
So there is this resentment, and I think that's what's bubbling up now.
At the same time, I kind of just accept it.
That's what life is.
Young women are attractive, and men want to give them money, and young men are considered disposable, worthless, and, you know, they're not worth anything.
And the thing is, I can't even say to these guys they don't have a legit grievance.
They do.
They absolutely do.
I mean, there is undoubtedly... I mean, nature hasn't been fair, I think, is the most important thing to remember.
I mean, and I want to...
I believe that nature is deeply unfair, and when it comes to young men and women, they haven't given them an even hand.
But when it comes to older men and older women, the hand is still not even either, but it's reversed.
There was an actress, a French actress, at some Cannes Film Festival or something, and someone had sent me this article because they couldn't believe that this woman was complaining that men, she was complaining about older men, And how the older actors around her had gravitas.
You know, they had authority because of their years in the cinema.
And because she was old and she'd lost her looks, she felt worthless.
And it's like, okay, well now you know exactly how these young men are feeling when you've got young women who are beautiful and, you know, able to easily take advantage of this beauty at very, very little expense
to themselves and difficulty to themselves.
I mean, you know, I don't want to call it prostitution because I don't think it is full-on prostitution,
but the only alternative, if not camgirling, to do this kind of thing probably would actually be prostitution,
which is stripping, prostitute, yeah, exactly, but something physical.
But it's something physical where you have to be exposed to the gaze of lots of other people.
You know, you've got to be in public.
It takes a bit more bravery than doing it in your bedroom, I would say.
But the point is, and also you've got a much more limited audience there as well.
I don't know how many people they have watching them, but surely it's in the thousands if you're a popular girl.
So you can end up probably making quite a lot of money for very little investment, and you are going on holiday saying, well, losers paid for my holiday.
That's true.
But I mean, you can see why they would feel like they're being taken advantage of.
And you could see why they feel the scales are weighted against them.
And in previous eras, I mean, these same physical states were in, you know, things that people had to live through.
But we had more restrictive social structures that prevented women from exploiting this.
And in their age, it prevented men from exploiting their wealth and power.
Yeah, well, one of the things I was going to say is, the social norms, say 50 or 60 years ago, by the age of like 20, these people probably would have been married to one another, so the woman wouldn't want to exploit her sexuality to make money, and the man would go out and do a job that would be enough for both people and support the family.
And that was the norm for quite some time, up until the modern era, and now people have to figure out how to deal with these things.
I doubt there's hundreds, but tens of thousands, maybe even high tens of thousands between Europe and the US, and I would imagine to a lesser extent in, or maybe more a greater extent in Japan and East Asia and things like that.
But these people have always existed, right?
They call prostitution the world's oldest profession.
I think, like, certainly there are many women who are doing this, but I think 99.9% of women are just doing normal things like they've always done.
Yeah, of course.
When you're online, it's easy to see these high-profile individuals, and you know, here's what happens on Twitter and Facebook and YouTube.
When people go on Twitter, and someone will tweet something like, I sure do love cheeseburgers, they get 30 responses from people saying cheeseburgers are bad, you're a monster, and this person then thinks everyone feels that way.
When it was just this one-thirty.
This is actually how the regressive left is able to be so influential.
They're microscopic.
I mean, we've seen the studies.
It's less than 8% of the population of the US, mostly wealthy white people.
But because they're so loud, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
These companies believe there are more of them than there really are.
And the same is true for what we're seeing now.
For me, it's like, it just feels like an emotional reaction to I mean, look, man, let me let me let me jump in.
But I think it's important to remember that the the cam girls and honestly, I think there probably might be hundreds of thousands of them.
I mean, like, I don't see why.
I suspect there are probably many that we don't see just because I don't operate in those circles.
I don't know whether you do, but I'm sure you don't sort of thing.
But all across the world, suddenly it's it's a very profitable and easy thing to do for women in like second and third world countries to be able to do.
But I think the important thing to remember is that making money out of it is the tip of the iceberg.
Because what it is, is it's about social power and influence, I think.
And So, like, you've got the section that make money out of it,
which are undoubtedly a small section, but then beneath that you've got a huge section of
young women who are using social media to basically be attention whores, you know, to
get likes and retweets and favorites from just, you know, they're not prostituting themselves,
they're just showing a bit of cleavage or, you know, a certain pose and all this sort of
thing.
And I think it's speaking to a social malady that wasn't present before social media.
Well, let me tell you, I think that this is, there's a huge amount of resentment that's
built up because of this.
I can't remember which dating site it was, but they released a bunch of data and from this data it was shown that something like 20% of the men get 80% of the women.
Yep, that's what I think too.
And women thought that something like 70 or 80% of men were below average in attractiveness,
which obviously doesn't make any sense as a statement.
And so I think the scales have been weighted in one favor over another at this point.
So first, let me tell this story to kind of agree with you, but then I'm going to bring
up a point.
It was maybe like six, seven years ago.
I go on YouTube and I see this young woman who's getting millions of views playing guitar and singing covers.
And I'm a musician, so I was like, man, how can I do that?
So I do tons of research.
I looked at her channel, I looked at how she started, and it was a really interesting thing that happened.
I looked at oldest first, because I always like to see when people started, what was their first video.
And she got only a few thousand views on her cover songs.
One day, all of a sudden, it went from like 5,000 to a million.
These two videos, just one, it was a day, it was within like a couple days, she does a cover song, 5,000 views, a million views.
And from then on, every video is getting hundreds of thousands to millions, and there was one change she made.
And it was, she used to wear t-shirts, and she switched to a low-cut top.
And I saw that, and I kind of laughed, and I'm like, yup.
Everybody, it's kind of like a fact, you know, a lot of the original YouTubers would use, you know, hot women in their thumbnails to get the clicks, and it worked.
And so what ended up happening, YouTube had to change this, make it against the rules, because you'd have videos about, you know, news, and the thumbnail was just a woman in a bikini for no reason.
In fact, I don't know if Casey Neistat believes this, because I don't want to misquote him, but I think this is the case.
One of his biggest viral videos, Make It Count, the thumbnail is two beautiful men posing in bikinis while he takes their picture and has Make It Count.
That's...
The guy knows what he's doing.
You know, it's good marketing.
Whether or not he did it on purpose, that works.
It drives traffic.
The video was fantastic.
It goes viral.
And so this works, right?
I kind of forgot what my other point was going to be.
But this is a great point for me to go on, because that's exactly the problem.
This is exactly the advantage that women have in the marketplace when they're young, that the older actress was complaining that she doesn't have when she's older.
And I mean, her point about gravitas, that's not something you can give someone.
That's something you have to earn.
And that's something that young men earn over their youth because they don't have the natural physical advantages that a young woman has when it comes to being the center of attention.
A man has to essentially work on himself as a person.
Eventually to when he becomes like 40 or 50 to then have that kind of gravitas that people are drawn to because of his experience.
And if women, I mean, it's not just an easy ride either.
You know, like a woman taking advantage of her looks rather than building her person for the entirety of the youth that she has, that leaves her up the creek in later life because she hasn't built up that kind of gravitas.
She hasn't worked on herself as a person.
And so she now doesn't have anything to offer because her looks have faded.
But I wonder what percentage of the workforce, and again, that's why we have, that's why divorce courts favor women.
That's why there's alimony and typically favors women, because that was the point, you know, back in the day, when women were primarily homemakers, if they got a divorce, the woman can't do anything.
I mean, she's too old to have a family, what are you going to do?
So the guy's got to continue to pay.
That's the social contract.
That's changing.
And so there are absolutely a lot of women who are, I mean I think most millennial women now, there are some studies showing that millennial women are out-earning millennial men.
Absolutely.
One study I found said in Atlanta particularly the gap is massive, like millennial women earning something like 20% more than millennial men.
They're succeeding in schools, they're the majority of universities, men are failing in all of these things, they're falling behind in wages, and yet people still talk about feminism as if it's something people need.
But here's the thing, and to an extent I can agree with that, but I think it also comes down to the individual men, right?
When I was younger, I was from the South Side of Chicago, high school dropout, I was homeless periodically, and so one of the most frustrating things for me, I had several instances, and I actually got into an argument with a really well-known feminist, and I think I helped kind of shed some light on the plight of the young man, and I said, I was homeless, no one cared, no one offered me support, I was actually looked down upon, People wouldn't want to hang out with me, and what could I do?
I was a poor kid from the south side of Chicago.
I had no options.
I tried going and finding jobs, and I went to an area called Wrigleyville in Chicago, where it's where Wrigley Stadium is, and it's all these bars on Clark Street, and I went to every single one.
I'm an intelligent, articulate young man.
I had resumes, and I said, you know, I'm just looking for some, you know, potential bar back, maybe a cleaning job, dishes, whatever you can offer.
I'm just looking into some general, you know, low-level work.
And they all said, thank you.
Have a nice day.
And there was one bar where the guy was dead honest.
And he was like, he's like, look, kid, let me, I was, I was about 21 times.
He's like, let me be honest with you, man.
He's like, you, have you noticed something about all these bars, about the women who are cleaning, who are serving or bartending or about the employees?
Like they're all women, right?
We, you're, you're not going to find a place that's going to hire a young man to do that.
They hire women.
And so luckily this guy took pity on me and said, I'll tell you what though, man.
Cause I was like, look, dude, I'm desperate.
You know, I'm, I'm going everywhere.
I'm trying to find, figure this out.
I'm trying to make it work.
And so he, he said, just come in on the busy nights and I'll hook you up 50 bucks to just make sure, you know, the tables are cleared.
And I was lucky.
But for me to see how much money these, these bartender women were making a couple hundred bucks a night working for a couple hours.
And I was getting 50 bucks to run around and pick up their glasses for them and do all that stuff.
I ended up getting a security job where I just got yelled at and made no, like $7 an hour.
And the women were at the counter making all the money, doing all the tips and all the guys were 30 were throwing money at them.
And then there was, there was a couple other things in my life.
I wanted to do gymnastics when I was younger and all the programs were only for girls.
So I was like, why can't I do?
Sorry, you can't do it.
And then there was another really, really big moment that really pissed me off was when this famous yoga instructor who met a few friends of mine offered free classes to the group.
It's like, there's 4 of us.
And she goes, why don't you all come down and do yoga at my event?
And I was really excited.
I'm like, that sounds awesome.
And she looked at me and said, oh, no, no, no, no.
It's for women only.
And so I've experienced that, but what I realized is if I just focus on these areas where I've been excluded, I'm never going to succeed.
I'm not going to go and bang on the door and demand they let me in.
So I was like, I'm just going to look, this is the world.
This is how it works.
I've got to figure it out.
So when I hear that, you know, men are not doing as good in school or they're not graduating as much, not making as much money as millennials.
I don't appreciate, like, when they do the thought audit thing.
I'm like, that just sounds like exactly what the regressive left, the intersectional feminists do, what Antifa does.
Granted, violence is totally different from reporting someone to the authorities for sure, but it feels like an emotional reaction instead of saying, you know what?
The world is as it is, and I have to figure out how to navigate it to succeed, instead of pointing, you know, just taking your anger out on other people because It works for them, you know?
But I mean, I can't find it in my heart to begrudge them that.
I genuinely do feel, like you said, you know, I've been through that before myself.
Before I went to university, I lived in Newquay, which is a party town in the UK, in Cornwall, and I had exactly the same experience.
You know, I couldn't get a job waiting tables or like serving behind the bar.
They always wanted women behind the bar.
So, I ended up getting jobs doing like kitchen portering and stuff, cleaning dishes for three pounds an hour or something, you know, a terrible wage.
I personally didn't become resentful about it because I was going off to university and I just knew it was a shit job I had to do to earn some money.
We didn't have social media at the time.
I wasn't watching all of my female classmates becoming local social media superstars just by showing a bit of flesh.
I wasn't becoming resentful because all the hard work I might have been doing on the internet was going to waste.
No one was paying attention, everyone was clicking on the thumbnail of the woman with the big boobs.
So I can see why they're annoyed.
And I mean, in previous eras, society had mechanisms designed to pay,
like to be aware of the situation that young men and young women find themselves in.
And it was, you know, I mean, it evolved this way, but it was understood that there should be
some way of integrating young men into the social structures that we have.
And obviously they weren't designed specifically to exclude women or anything like that.
And I'm not suggesting that we go back to that either.
What I'm saying is, if we change society's structure radically,
then we should expect strange results.
And this is one of those strange results.
We've got young men who do everything they can, and now they're told they can't even have a male-only space.
You know, you won't be able to find a... you would never be able to set up something that was just for young men only, just a male-only thing.
Absolutely.
It would be the most misogynistic thing you can think of.
And then when you get a space like the Call of Duty community that is like 99% male, All you do is hear feminists whining about it.
Complaining, oh, we need more women representation in this.
Why?
Because we're not there.
Well, why aren't you there?
Because you didn't want to be there.
And now you can't even let these poor guys have their one thing, which is what that... I can't remember the name of the Twitch stream that got banned, but that was what he was complaining about.
He said, look, we got bullied at school.
We got picked on by the attractive girls when they were with the sports stars or whatever.
We were just the nerds, and now we built this thing that we made, and now these...
In my opinion, in my worldly travels, and I know this will be my controversial statement, I believe men have it much, much better than women.
But listen, listen, hear me out.
OkCupid's data shows that women, when they start their adult life, have, on a scale of 0 to 100, 100% social value.
And I'm not talking about sexual, I'm talking about social.
That means if an 18-year-old woman wants to get a job, it is significantly more likely, significantly more likely, like orders of magnitude, that she will be hired over a young man.
And this means that male social value, starting at adulthood, is at the bottom of the barrel, almost nothing.
Something starts to happen around, I think the age is 32, it can vary between 20 and 32, where it starts to flip, where men become more valuable.
So think about this.
There are inherent problems that we're going to face as a society, which I'll get to after this point, with what's happening to our society.
But women get a great start.
And the thing is, I think a lot of them don't realize it.
I think a lot of women in their 20s, why they're so hardcore feminist thinking everything's wrong is, What do you think happens if you start your adult life with peak social value, and then into your mid twenties, it starts going down.
It starts feeling like the world is unfair, even though you've had all of these advantages.
They then get angry when they see men are doing better in their careers, but men started at the bottom.
What happens then is these young men who are now becoming successful feel like everything is great.
And so you end up with a lot of guys who are like, maybe the women are right.
My life is fantastic.
Not realizing they think life is fantastic because they came from the gutter.
And so there's going to be a social repercussion there.
But first, let me say, for men, as you do become more valuable as you become older, you become more rugged in your looks.
Young women, according to OkCupid, predominantly, it's like the peak male sexual value age is something like 38 to 45.
So you go through this hardship for sure, but if you make it out, Eventually, you become substantially more valuable than these women for a much longer period of time.
So, if a woman is valuable from most of her life until she's about 32, men from zero to 32 are less valuable, but from 32 to 75, for the rest of your life, you do have more value in terms of society.
So, right now, I would argue that there are a lot of advantages Men have in terms of how our society still is, and there's going to be ramifications for this because, as I explained a moment ago, how men are kind of going like, man, my life is so great, you know, my income is up, my job is better.
Maybe some of these women are right.
You end up with these male feminist types who then support the women who want to maintain that max 100% social value for the rest of their lives.
That can actually present a problem.
Now, I do think it's a problem that we would value women less simply because they become older.
Certainly, they're valuable members of society, regardless of your sex, gender, whatever.
So that means that it is good that women are getting careers, are becoming specialists, and less women are relying on being mothers and relying on being beautiful, I should say.
Not so much as anything wrong with being a mother.
I should clarify this.
If you rely on being beautiful for resources, that's not going to last you.
And so, well, for a period of time that made sense, right?
Women would, I'm beautiful, they wear a dress, they would attract men, and then they would become good wives, raise families, and they would get half of the man's money.
It doesn't work that way anymore.
So there's pros and there's cons.
This means that women can maintain, you know, a more, a higher societal value into older age, and it means that as men get older, They now have to compete with that as well, which means young women have a maximum societal value for being young and beautiful and desired by men and women alike.
And now they're going to maintain a steady base of being careerists and young men start at zero and then have to compete with even so basically.
One prediction I might say could happen is that you'll have women starting their life with a max societal value, which again is according to research.
It's not just my opinion.
It could be wrong.
You know, you have to look it up.
Men starting near the bottom and then evening out, meaning men will be, you know, get in the short end of the stick and then later on just be even with women in terms of societal value.
So, I mean, and this is not to make a comment on historical patriarch or anything like that.
It's just literally based on how society values men and women.
And for the time being, I think that's always been the case though.
I think that young men have always been essentially disposable and kind of valueless.
want to correct that but there's going to be you know...
Yeah, you'll never see like a hashtag movement to get women in rubbish disposal.
And this is the thing.
It's the scales are definitely weighted at this point in their lives when they're young and I mean it's irresponsible to let young women think that it's going to be like this forever because it's really not.
I mean the the MGTOWs have the term the wall which is the point in the probably the early 30s where the woman starts losing her looks and young and this the famous example of this is jessica valenti when she was about 28 she wrote an article for the guardian saying oh men cat call me all the time it's the worst thing in the world and then five years later when she's like 33 she writes an article saying men don't cat call me anymore it makes me feel bad and it's like yeah yeah yeah the famous meme photo
It is.
But it makes the point precisely, because this is exactly what happens.
When Jessica Valenti was young and attractive, she got a lot of male attention, and she was running around screeching about the patriarchy, and now she doesn't get male attention, she has nothing to blame it on but the patriarchy.
And it's like, well, you know, you weren't considering your own situation.
What I find particularly interesting in all of this, and one argument I've made, is that I got into a lot of flack for this controversial statement that feminism is actually trying to diminish or destroy femininity.
I actually said this to a group of my feminist friends, because believe it or not, there's a lot of people who think I'm conservative.
I'm not.
Who think I have conservative friends.
I don't.
Everyone I hang out with is a pot-smoking, hippie, liberal feminist.
They voted for Hillary and Bernie.
I told them this.
They argued with me and I said, but listen, let me explain, okay?
How often, how much of the rhetoric is about getting men to be stay-at-home dads?
But how much of, on TV, how much of the Twitter fights is about men being stay-at-home dads?
Do you see feminists going out and protesting, demanding that, you know, stay-at-home dads are respected in media?
No, no, no, no.
They're demanding diversity quotas to get women of color in Google, right?
So the reason why I say it's diminishing or even destroying femininity is that Not I'm not trying to find what femininity is I'm just simply looking back to the traditional roles and I'm not saying traditional roles are right or wrong just simply if you go back even 100 years you can see that women raised families and men did the hunt right they did the labor the work to be the breadwinners there was a masculine role and a feminine role and I think
People have actually argued that the feminine role is significantly more important because it creates humanity.
It raises people to be leaders.
It raises men and women alike to be successful leaders to then carry on society.
And men were always disposable because there's a really, I don't know if you're a fan of Fallout, but there was in the Fallout series, for those that aren't familiar, it's about a nuclear war, big games came out, and there's underground vaults.
In one of them, They had 99 men and one woman, and in another they had 99 women and one man, and that got me thinking.
You know, so I did some reading, and basically the idea is simple.
If your society has every single man but one die, you are totally fine.
Because one man can reproduce with many women.
But the inverse is not true.
And thus, society has always found that women are extremely, extremely important.
And this evolved in a certain way.
But back to my main point.
You then ended up with traditional roles.
Masculine and feminine.
And so now, most of feminism is advocating for women to move to the masculine side of things.
But there is significantly less for both to be in the feminine side of things.
So there are people who I think are actually reasonable feminists.
You know, my mom, for instance, she always says women should have equal opportunity.
And, you know, when it comes to applying for a job, should be weighed the same as no one else.
They shouldn't be discriminated against based on gender, but they should also be respected if they want to be mothers as well.
I'm like 100%.
But I think we lose that.
And now a lot of the argument is why can't women, you know, be in this field?
Why can't women do this?
Well, certainly I can understand why you're concerned about gender discrimination in various industries, right?
There's very little discussion about masculine individuals becoming feminine, of advocating for the other direction.
It's all moving to masculinity.
It's all moving to combat roles.
Getting women in combat was a big thing.
Getting women in engineering was a big thing.
More women in gaming.
Traditionally things dominated by men.
Where are the calls for men to get into the medical profession?
Where are the calls for men to become teachers?
It exists, but it's significantly less.
And the social professions are considered the more feminine roles, the more nurturing, and they are typically advocating for women to do the more masculine roles, right?
But I think, getting back to the main point quickly, I think that if you're a young woman and you've suddenly found yourself with a lot of young men spamming your feed with all this nonsense, honestly, I mean, it's because...
It's because society is going through a period of change that we don't really understand.
I mean, it would have been different had, a hundred years ago, social media been invented then.
Things would have been very strange, but it wouldn't have been as it is now.
In fact, you would have had a different outcome.
You know, presumably some sort of traditionalist housewife competition on the internet, you know, who can have the best baked pies or something.
But since you now have young women and these women become absolute artists when it comes to their makeup as well and this is I mean I'm sure that everyone's seen the the sort of video the time-lapse video of a very very plain looking oriental woman who then does everything to her face and then suddenly she's a beautiful geisha or whatever It's the same thing with women all across the world.
They work very hard on their makeup, and it raises their level of attractiveness.
And when you've got the ability to frame every photo exactly as you want it, to maximize this, and you're in complete control of the image that you put out on the internet, it becomes very easy to, I think, get a distorted picture of your own self-worth.
Especially when you've got thousands and thousands of guys saying, oh, you're so attractive.
Oh, I think you're beautiful.
I think it's frankly something that women need to think about.
How attractive are you really?
Because the chances are you're around a 5.
And how attractive is that guy who's just asked you out?
Because the chances are he's about a 5'2 and about 100 years ago you'd probably already be married to him.
That's why I chose a five, because you're probably about average.
Most people are, you know.
So, yeah, you know, you're between a four and a six, mostly.
And I mean, you know, people say, oh, you know, there's the meme of sort of like, she's a six out of ten who thinks she's a ten, you know, and things like this.
And it's understandable why people would have these kind of distorted views of themselves.
And so, you know, at the end of the day...
There are genuine problems.
There are genuine problems with young men who can't find relationships because women honestly think they're not good enough.
And then when these women get older, they can't find a relationship because they spent their youth and their attractive years, I don't want to say being promiscuous, but not settling down.
It's not necessarily the same as being promiscuous, but choosing to be sort of mercurial in your relationships, moving from relationship to relationship.
And, you know, I can understand why you do it, but you're not helping yourself when it comes to the long run, because, you know, when you're 40 and you can't get a date, and you're writing another, yet another article on, you know, the Huffington Post or the Daily Mail or whatever, saying, well, I'm 40, I've got a career, I'm really intelligent, I earn this much, why can't I find a man to date me?
You don't seem to think that, like, you've got to realize that you need a toy boy at that point.
You know, you can't look for a man that you find yourself with.
You've got to find a man, you know, but this is the thing.
And then men, at that point, are massively resentful because they went through their youth unable to actually have a relationship and form a stable partnership themselves.
And I think what we're seeing is an extreme tightening of the alpha male's dominance in society, right?
So as you mentioned earlier, there was a study, I believe it was OkCupid, that found that 20% of the men get all of the women, even the ugly ones, like even the low, I'm not trying to be mean, but even on the lower scale of beauty, yeah, I think it's tightening.
I think what we're seeing now is that number is probably getting even smaller and smaller and smaller because of the internet.
Think about this.
Before the internet, how could 20% of men get all of the women?
Well, because a woman could only meet so many men in her area, but now because of the internet, you can literally seek out directly to that top number one person, and that one guy will get messages from women, right?
There have been these funny, I don't want to call necessarily experiments, but kind of like so social pseudo online experiments done by a lot of people in the incel community where they make Chad accounts on Twitter on Tinder, Twitter on Tinder, and then they have like a big, you know, muscular, you know, attractive man, and they make the profile the most awful thing you can imagine.
And then they post the results from women saying, I don't care.
I don't care how awful you are.
One guy said he went to jail for beating his ex-wife.
And then he finally got out.
And there's responses from women being like, so what?
You're hot.
Because of the internet, it's making it so the local...
One thing I read too, is kind of a deviation, is that we're all introverted now.
We don't go out.
We don't talk to people.
These things aren't happening anymore.
It's all on the internet.
It's not there.
And you know what, man?
I'll just end by saying this because I could go on for a million years.
It's multi... What does Jordan Peters say?
It's multi-varied in what's happening.
Why the fertility rates are down.
Why young millennials aren't getting... Why young men aren't going to school.
When I was their age, it was totally the other way around.
And I think that if you're a young woman watching this and you're rolling your eyes or something, just think about your own long-term interests.
Because the whole thing with the Tinder profiles, this is women looking for a short-term interest that they're trying to satisfy.
Do you think that men are aware of what you're doing?
I mean, they have nicknames that aren't very flattering for these kind of women, and they talk to one another about you in their social spheres and things like this.
These things all have an effect, and it would be wise for you to make choices that would be long-term in your 20s, as people often had to do back in the day, Because otherwise when in 20 years time you're gonna find it's difficult because there is kind of an iron law in place when it comes to attractiveness and especially for women and it doesn't get better it just gets worse.
So you should take advantage of the attractiveness you have when you're young and use that to build for your future and if you want your future to include a husband a house and children then you should make those plans in your 20s.
I think I've seen some profiles on OkCupid from women saying they don't want to work.
And I'm not trying to... it's not disrespectful.
There were profiles in my area where they were like, I want to be a mom, I want to be a stay-at-home mom and raise a family, but I guess I can't do that anymore.
And I'm like...
Yeah, I guess that's true.
And I've also talked to some friends who are, you know, women who are about, you know, 27, 28, who said they're really concerned with trying to make sure they have a career, but can have a family too.
Because the problem is, if so, another story, right?
So, I know 2 people.
They're both managers and event promoters for high-profile individuals.
One has a massive list of people he represents who are famous.
And the woman does not.
And she's struggling.
And what she told me was that she had a kid.
And because she decided to have a family, it pulled her away from a career.
And while they were both in the same place at one point, she stopped for family, he kept going.
Then when she finally got back into her career, he was leaps and bounds ahead of her, and she already had younger male competition on par with her, who knew about newer things, and she was struggling to compete.
So, I've talked to some of my younger female friends who are like, if I stop now to have a family with my significant other, what happens then if we get divorced in a few years?
What if we never get married?
How will I support that kid?
I'm not going to have a career or a job, you know, things of that nature.
And the same can be true for men, right?
If a guy chooses to have a kid, he's going to have to support that kid, and it could be a broken heart as well.
Yeah. And this is one of the things I've talked to my feminist friends about who they acknowledge
I wouldn't say it's not representative of every feminist everywhere, because you certainly have the regressive, intersectional, you know, crazy people.
I will say too, like a lot of people think the internet is real life sometimes, and to an extent it can be, right?
James Gunn did get fired, the movie was pretty much cancelled because of Mike Cernovich's, you know, finding these tweets.
But most of the women I know who are feminists don't have extremely strong opinions at all.
They might have a general idea of something but are willing to talk to you about it, and then you see these internet hordes and it's kind of like...
But, you know, one thing they say to me is, well, I feel like I just said this, you know, they fully understand there's a point where they have to decide, are they going to take time out?
And they have to do it soon.
But your younger years are key in building that career, becoming successful.
And so what I've told them is like, listen.
I'm for gender equality.
I'm 100%.
But feminists, anti-feminists, whatever, you have to recognize, no matter what you do, there will always be a disadvantage that women have based on several factors.
For one, when it comes to physical jobs, men tend to be taller, they tend to have more bone mass, muscles, they don't have to bear children.
That means if a man chooses, if a man or woman, both at 28, completely equal in everything, They went to the same schools, got the same grades, got the same job, meet and said, let's have a family.
The woman has to at least take some time off to bear the child and give birth.
The man does not.
The man can then, you know, support the woman for sure, but there still will always be a biological disadvantage that women have when it comes to the workplace.
And I don't know if that's possible to overcome unless now that we're not having families anymore, we, I don't know, I don't know what we do or how this happens, but it's, it feels like things are gonna start breaking down.
You know, it's just not going to work out.
Whatever we're doing in society right now cannot last forever.
Because you have very different cultures who don't believe in this complete liberal freedom, who believe in tradition and having families, and they continue to have families and expand.
And this is not just, you know, some people might think I'm talking about Islam, but it's just Abrahamic religion.
It's just most people outside of the developed West.
It doesn't matter what their religion is.
Honestly, I think that what we're dealing with is the curse of affluence.
Most people got married because they needed to.
This is why the old stereotype of women always trying to improve their men You know, they'd marry a guy who they realized wasn't perfect and then work on him.
He'd be their project that they would, you know, they would work on him.
And the stereotype no longer exists because women just aren't getting married.
So, I mean, I guess the final thing I'd say is that, ladies, if you're watching this and you're like, I don't like that intel, he's only a 5 out of 10.
Well, you need to work on him.
You need to get together with him and make him more than what he was.
So anyway, I guess to kind of wrap everything up, we started talking about the thought audit, and I think what was interesting, the reason why I wanted to have this conversation with you, Sargon, because it kind of turned into what's the underlying issue of why so many young men are upset and reporting these women to the IRS.
And, you know, my final analysis is that I think it's an emotional reaction.
It's not going to be effective.
The IRS is probably not going to do anything.
It feels like a victory for so many young men who feel like society has wronged them.
Unfortunately, I think there's too many young men who blame women as a whole, instead of realizing there is a subset of women who are exploitative, who are manipulative, and mean and nasty.
And that's true for men as well.
And if feminists only focus on the worst of men, and men or men's rights activists or whoever only focus on the worst of women, you're going to have a distorted picture of what the world is really like.
And it's difficult.
I don't know what the solution is, but I certainly empathize with everybody, right?
I understand if you're angry.
And I will also say that one thing that's often overlooked in the conversation about incels, you see a lot of people on Twitter, a lot of, you know, like, moderate, centrist, and liberal women, I see them saying this, people who are, you know, pro-free speech and all that, saying, oh, men should improve themselves, improve themselves.
But one thing that's often overlooked is that there are some people who are literally a 2 out of 10.
Right?
And I empathize with those people.
And Jordan Peterson has talked something a little bit about this.
What do you do as a society for those who are the stupidest or the ugliest or the bottom of the barrel?
Something has to be done.
You can't just throw them aside.
And I think that's why a lot of people respect, you know, and follow what he says.
But that's my final thoughts.
I don't know if you want to say anything before we wrap up.
No, it's probably going to get worse before it gets better, frankly, is my opinion.
And the thing is, it's I think that when you're at the apex, like you said, they've got maximum social value when they're young, young women.
And it's hard to explain to someone who's currently enjoying the fruits of being at the apex, I mean privilege is invisible to those who have it, it's hard to explain to them that it won't always be this way and it would be wise for them to make sensible decisions now.
I don't think we're going to be able to just persuade them, frankly.
