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June 25, 2025 - Timcast IRL - Tim Pool
02:10:33
IRAN STRIKE FAILED Claims LEAKED Intel Report, Trump Admin DENIES Report | Timcast IRL
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Main voices
b
batya ungar-sargon
27:34
e
elad eliahu
11:56
l
libby emmons
09:36
p
phil labonte
05:28
t
tim pool
01:08:20
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d
donald j trump
00:41
| Copy link to current segment

Speaker Time Text
tim pool
A leaked Intel report suggests that the Iranian strikes failed after 14 bunker busters were dropped.
The facility was only set back a few months in terms of nuclear enrichment and weapons development.
Now, the White House and the Trump administration are denying this claim, saying this is totally wrong.
The question is, why does this assessment exist?
And it sounds like from the Trump administration, it does exist.
They're just saying they disagree with it.
They feel that it is an incorrect assessment.
My fear in this is if the argument comes out and it is publicly accepted that the strikes failed, then you are going to see the warmongers come out in full force saying, well, now we have no choice.
We have to scale these things up.
In the meantime, however, it looks like the ceasefire is holding, which is good news.
And Donald Trump this morning had one of the best lines of a president ever when he just said, you got two countries that have been fighting for so long, they don't know what the they are doing.
And he dropped the F-bomb.
And so we appreciate it.
I appreciate that.
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Joining us tonight to talk about this and so much more is Batya Unger Sargon.
batya ungar-sargon
Hi, Tim.
tim pool
Who are you?
What do you do?
batya ungar-sargon
I'm a journalist.
I'm an author.
I'm the author of two books.
One is called Bad News, How Woke Media is Undermining Democracy.
The other one is called Second Class, How the Elites Betrayed America's Working Men and Women.
I'm known as the MAGA lefty, and I'm really honored to be here.
Thanks for having me.
tim pool
Radon, well, glad to have you.
We got Elad hanging out.
elad eliahu
Good evening, everybody.
I'm Elad Eliyahu, the White House correspondent here at Timcast.
Hey, Libby.
libby emmons
Hey, Elad.
I'm Libby Emmons.
I'm glad to be here hanging out with everybody.
phil labonte
Hello, everybody.
My name is Phil Labonte.
I'm the lead singer of the heavy metal band, All That Remains.
I'm an anti-communist and counter-revolutionary.
Let's get into it.
tim pool
Here's the news from the Daily Mail.
White House furious at top-secret leak on Iran nuclear site bombing as Trump faces impeachment calls.
Additionally, the impeachment failed, but we'll get to that in a bit.
A leaked intel assessment claiming Trump's strike on Iran did not destroy Tehran's nuclear program is flat out wrong, the White House has claimed.
The report conducted by the Defense Intelligence Agency and leaked by CNN claims Saturday's airstrike on three Iranian nuclear sites only set the country's program back by months instead of completely destroying it.
Trump claims the strikes completely and totally obliterated, a statement echoed by White House Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt, who dismissed the assessment as a clear attempt to demean President Trump.
Everyone knows what happens when you drop 14 30,000-pound bombs perfectly on their targets, total obliteration.
Now, I don't know if I have the post actually pulled up, but I think the statements from the White House basically lay out that this assessment actually exists.
It's a real assessment.
So the question then is, why was it leaked?
Who leaked it?
And is Trump correct?
Now, here's what I want to say about all of these stories.
Trump is the source.
He is the primary source as the commander in chief.
So it is strange to me that CNN would run a story saying some random, random, low-level guy leaked this report to us, and we believe this over the actual president and the administration.
That being said, I understand administrations can lie, but for any layperson, you're going to be looking at random anonymous guy versus the president's administration.
I don't know why in this instance, you would doubt the primary source versus random anonymous source.
You have no idea who it even is.
libby emmons
Well, the thing, too, is this assessment was there were seven sources that were, there were like three sources and people were briefed on the report, but the report wasn't leaked to CNN.
CNN did not see the report.
So they only heard about the pieces of the report that these sources wanted them to hear about.
elad eliahu
I've become so cynical of political motivations behind leaks that it's hard to believe what people, what's actually true and what is just being used as an angle.
A lot of these people in the administration, I mean, everybody involved in politics, a lot of these people who become sources for journalists seem to have an axe to grind.
libby emmons
Yeah, and people are out for Tulsi Gabbard.
They want her out.
Like, they've been messing with her whole intelligence situation for a while.
They had the flip-flopping FBI reports about potential terror cells in the U.S. They were going after Joe Kent by leaking some stuff.
I mean, there are, I think, elements in the media and out there, I don't know who they are, who really want Tulsi Gabbard out of her position.
phil labonte
Is it realistic to think that they're going to be able to influence the president to remove Tulsi?
I mean, he is, you know, it's not like he's afraid of firing people.
It's not like he's afraid of making changes on the fly.
libby emmons
think he'd fire Tulsi Gabbard.
unidentified
But I don't know if this is...
libby emmons
That's what Caroline Leavitt said.
unidentified
Right.
tim pool
And so my question is why.
And my concern is they're going to claim, ah, well, if the strikes didn't work, we got to go in, don't we?
phil labonte
Well, I mean, look, at the end of the day, you don't, just because these strikes didn't work doesn't mean it calls for an invasion.
Maybe it calls for a whole nother sortie of the exact same strikes.
libby emmons
We also don't know that the 1430,000 pound ordinances did not destroy it.
We don't know that.
We know that CNN had three people, low-level people apparently at the White House tell them that they saw a draft, an early version of a draft report, right?
Like who of people who didn't check it out.
They're just looking at images.
They're just looking at graphics.
batya ungar-sargon
I don't think this is going to have a big impact.
To me, you look at who is sharing this online and the joy and the glee that they have that they can smear something on this incredible moment for the president.
It's CNN, it's liberal journalists, it's Democrats, and of course it came from low-level members of the deep state.
This is not going to have an actual foreign policy impact.
This was just like rage bait for people who cannot stand the fact that the president pulled off something incredible this week.
They cannot stand the fact that what he did was something that neither side could have pulled off.
This whole peace through strength thing where you protect the American people without losing a single soldier.
So I think that this is really just like, this is like a cultural artifact of the moment more than it is actually even like journalism or designed to have actually a foreign policy impact.
tim pool
I would also just intentionally try to impugn the honor of Natasha Bertrand.
libby emmons
Very easily done.
tim pool
Yeah, because she's been involved in a bunch of these stories accusing Trump of being, you know, Russian or whatever.
And, you know, that was all fake.
So I was not surprised when I pulled up the CNN story saying, actually, the Iranian sites are totally fine.
Uh-oh.
And I'm like, oh, look, it's Natasha Bertrand.
phil labonte
Yeah, I mean, surprising.
motivated reasoning is definitely not out of the question.
libby emmons
Yeah, she's the one who penned that political report in the first place with the 51. Yeah, she penned the political report.
And that report still has not been corrected or updated.
And the other thing about that report that cannot ever be forgotten is that it was Anthony Blinken with the Biden campaign who contacted one of like the main guy, the main intel officer who worked on that report and said, hey, don't you think this kind of has the hallmarks of Russian disinformation?
And the guy was like, yeah, it totally does.
And then he got 50 of his friends and they put the letter together.
And the letter didn't say also, I mean, when you look at the letter, the letter did not say that the Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinformation.
It said it had all the hallmarks of Russian disinformation.
And then everybody ran with it.
Gensaki, Russian disinfo.
They all did that.
None of them have taken their tweets down.
And literally everyone who reported on that like it was true and refused to report on the Hunter Biden laptop story, because you have to remember, they all came out and said they would not report on it.
And here's why.
NPR, CBS, New York Times, all the rest of them, they all ended up with egg on their faces.
And it was all Natasha Bertrand's fault.
batya ungar-sargon
Okay, so speaking of egg on the face, here's my question.
So we saw Trump basically, you know, metaphorically give the middle finger both to the like neocon regime change side of the influencer sphere and to the anti-Israel isolationist side and do his own thing, which kind of split the difference and said, look, we're going to protect our people, but we're not going to war.
We're not doing regime change.
After the peace deal was signed or whatever, the ceasefire came into effect, suddenly you had both the isolationists and the neocons coming out and being like, thank God he pulled it off.
Thank God I wasn't wrong.
We were worried.
We were worried.
We didn't abandon him.
We weren't against him.
Thank God.
Thank God.
Like they're all trying to act like they hadn't actually done what they had done, which is like completely come out against his agenda.
What do you guys think of that?
tim pool
His agenda in which regard?
batya ungar-sargon
Like, okay, the isolationists wanted him to do nothing.
And then you want him to do nothing.
I also was not, I was not in favor initially of the strikes.
I was too worried about our service members in the area.
Thank God.
Nothing happened to them.
But they wanted him to tell the Israelis you're on your own, like not even give them refueling assistance and intelligence assistance.
And then the neocons wanted like full-on regime change, you know?
And when Bhutan Graham, when it became clear that wasn't going to happen, like they started to get agitated and be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we're going to leave this hanging.
Like this is our one opportunity, blah, blah, blah.
But now that the dust has settled, both sides are trying to be like, I'm not unhappy.
I was never angry.
unidentified
Me?
What?
Me?
batya ungar-sargon
I'm thrilled with how this, this is how I would have want, you know, like there's this weird, like, I think because they realized that like 80% of Republicans were like, oh no, this is exactly what we want.
Like this is the peace to strength that we voted for.
But do you think people are going to have this feeling of like there's going to be like a lingering, like a patina of betrayal on the people who turned on him and who came out against him?
Or you think they'll just get immediately reabsorbed into it?
tim pool
I think it gets reabsorbed, but it really does depend on if this holds.
And I hope it does.
You know, I was talking to Dave Smith earlier, and he's very, very Israel critical of Israel.
Very much doesn't want to be involved in these foreign wars and all that.
And he had a reasonable take.
Hey, if this ceasefire holds, then I'm happy.
Like, I'm happy to be wrong.
Like, nobody wants to be, no sane person wants to be like, I'd rather be right.
It's like, oh, you want the entire region to destabilize now as you can say, told you so.
batya ungar-sargon
So did he redact his apology for voting for Trump?
tim pool
Dave sort of did.
phil labonte
Did he?
tim pool
He said, you know, everybody's saying, well, here's what he did.
I asked him, you voted for Trump.
He says, yes, I said, do you regret it?
And he goes, everybody's mad because I said I regretted it.
But, you know, what I'm saying now is I voted for the guy and where we are is where we are.
And so I think, you know, not remembering literally every word that he said, his general, the general idea was Trump didn't do the worst thing that everyone thought was going to happen.
Everybody thought this was the moment of great betrayal.
It seems like Trump was trying to take the minimalist approach.
The neoconservation screaming, but they're going to get a nuke.
The anti-interventionists are saying, don't get involved at all.
And he's like, we'll bomb those sites and then we're done.
That's why he got super pissed this morning and said, you know, they don't know what the F they're doing because he doesn't want.
I told him, Dave, I hope Trump takes away from this.
You cannot win this.
You're going to piss off tons of people no matter what you do.
So I hope Trump's takeaway from this was don't listen to the regime change people.
Don't listen to the people saying literally do nothing.
You did the minimum and now everyone can be happy with their vanilla pudding.
To answer the question about Dave, I think Dave is kind of happy with his vanilla pudding.
You know what I mean?
Like, okay, I was pissed, but now I'm not so mad because we may get away from this without this being as bad as I thought, which actually means Trump is a pretty good president.
batya ungar-sargon
So there's this quote from J.D. Vance.
He gave this great talk at the Quincy Institute, I think it's called, in 2024 in May.
So I guess it was kind of right before he became, was that convention in August?
libby emmons
He did in July, I think.
batya ungar-sargon
And it's a really great talk, and he explains, like, basically from his point of view, like what a foreign policy designed to protect the interests of the middle class would look like.
And he said, it is obvious that our foreign policy should be designed around the recognition that the moral intuitions that matter are the moral intuitions of the American citizens.
And I think that is so accurate and so true and just inherently a moral, correct way to see what a nation's foreign policy should look like.
It should reflect the moral intuitions of the citizenry.
It happens to be.
A lot of people in the isolationist camp do not want to admit it, but the moral intuitions of the American people, the majority of the American people, if not the vast majority of the American people, are very closely aligned with Israel.
Like that is, you stop a normie American and their moral intuitions are pretty aligned with the idea of having a strong, pretty independent, sovereign ally in the region who fights people who hate us, you know?
And I think that's kind of where the isolationists went a little too far is in doubting, A, that Trump knew his base, and B, that he could pull off something like this.
And C, in doubting that the base should have their desires enacted in their former way.
tim pool
But I think this is changing.
I think Israel's support is gone in 10 or 20 years.
libby emmons
Why do you think that?
tim pool
Yeah, why do you think that?
Let's use this story as a launching point.
It does seem like a hard sell because we do have a lot.
We normally line all the stories up and we have a lot to talk about with the war.
But we got the story from Fox News.
Chicago Tribune warns New York to avoid socialist mayoral candidate after mistake Brandon Johnson.
That's right, ladies and gentlemen.
New York is having a Democratic primary, and this Zoran Mamdani is, I believe he's a Democratic socialist, yes?
elad eliahu
Correct.
Yes.
tim pool
He's also, I don't want to, I don't speak out of turn, but my understanding is he's anti-Israel.
libby emmons
Very fair.
unidentified
It's fair to say.
tim pool
Okay.
Fair to say, is it fair to, but would you characterize it more strongly than that, Elad?
elad eliahu
No, I think anti-Israel is fair.
I think he, what's become a big deal in New York and around Israel specifically is that within many of the anti-Israel protests in the city, they chant to globalize the so-called intifada.
Some people view that as a tepid call for violence against Jews.
He came out in support, as I understand, of the phrase.
He wouldn't condemn it.
I think he said something along the lines of there being like legitimate usage of the phrase, and it depends how you interpret it.
tim pool
So before we get into all the nuances of what's going on in New York, the fact that this guy is now in, you know, his polls are improving.
The prediction markets have him heavily favored to win the primary.
This is an example of the political motivation on the ground.
Young people skew anti-Israel.
We are seeing Pew has research that came out showing that among Democrats and Republicans, Republicans 18 to 49 are now 50 percent anti-Israel, critical of Israel.
unidentified
Democrats are like that.
batya ungar-sargon
I mean, we're pressing.
tim pool
Well, let me pull it up.
batya ungar-sargon
I'm a couple of years ago.
I think, this is what I think.
I think young people on the left have always hated Israel.
And on the right, I think young people are sick of funding other countries, which is legitimate.
Like, I'm sick of, I don't, I think funding for Israel, it's kind of like really like ran its course.
elad eliahu
You know, like, they're not anti-Israel.
They're socialists, and Israel is right-wing coded.
And as a result, they hate Israel.
tim pool
So just to clarify, negative, unfavorable view of Israel.
Percent.
And so in 2022, 18 to 49-year-olds were 35%.
2025, they're now 15%.
That's Republicans.
Among Democrats, 18 to 49 went 62 unfavorable to 71 unfavorable.
batya ungar-sargon
Yeah, but you don't think that when the war in Gaza ends, like that'll, that'll, that'll, I mean, that's reflected of a very negative.
tim pool
I think Israel has some of the piss poorest PR I've ever seen.
China's got better PR.
batya ungar-sargon
China has pretty good PR.
tim pool
It's pretty good.
Look what they do with TikTok.
And they get, who is it, James Charles or whatever that guy's name is, saying like, oh no, they're taking my TikTok from me, but Trump saved me.
I'm like, they know how to run a PSYOP.
It's funny because you got these people who think Israel controls the world.
And I'm like, for all the stereotypes about being sneaky Jews, they can't seem to muster up any degree of support among young people.
So right now, based on the split between Democrats and Republicans, the principal voting blocks in this country being, that's just it, majority negative.
Half of Republican in 18 to 49 are negative.
To be fair, 50 plus, a large voting block are very positive.
Only 23 are unfavorable.
Democrats, 50 plus are 66%.
We're looking at a majority among all youth adults, 53% unfavorable view of Israel.
This trend is growing.
I don't think even when the war ends, that's going to change.
And I'll give you a really good reason, TikTok being one of them.
After October 7th, we went over this with Axios.
We pulled up the Axios data 800 million times.
So I'm not going to pull it up right now, but we saw that the content that was getting the most views, there was a small amount of posts talking about how Israel had been victimized that got a large amount of play.
Pro-Palestine, small.
A week later, a week later, it inverted 10X.
Now all of a sudden, anti-Israel were getting way more views, like hundreds of thousands, more, millions more, than pro-Israel sentiment, which was indicative of an algorithmic change because it makes no sense that over a weekend, it just flips.
Now, this could be the result of TikTok internally saying, we want people to hate Israel and clicking a button, or it could be that Islamic Nations said to their cyber armies, we want 100 guys each running 1,000, you know, 100 accounts each, going on TikTok and posting anti-Israel sentiment to force the algorithmic switch.
Either way, within a week, the sentiment inverted.
Israel's not done anything to combat this.
And the sentiment is only getting worse.
Prominent conservative personalities are getting millions of views when they're critical of Israel.
And whether you want to call it legitimate or not does not matter.
Young people, you see that video of the woman who gets pulled over for the DUI?
The cop walks up to her and then she's drunk and she goes, well, she allegedly is drunk.
And she goes, did you know there's a genocide in Palestine?
And the cop's like, what?
It's so wired into the minds of these young people because they're getting spam blasted with it that she blurts it out to a random cop at a stop.
Israel does not have anything.
Let me tell you, the people that I see on social media that are pro-Israel are, there's an overlap between the DeSantis people and them, and everyone finds them insufferable.
Not literally every single person who's pro-Israel.
Some of them totally fine.
I'm friends with a lot of them.
But a lot of these posts are just smarmy and snide.
Meanwhile, I don't have to name any, but you guys can, but there's a ton of prominent personalities on the conservative side who have recently come out as Israel is not doing us any favors to Israel is secretly controlling this country and they're evil.
And they're getting Millions upon millions of views.
Their subscriber bases are growing.
They're making tons of money.
I don't see a reason why that trend would change.
libby emmons
Well, it used to, this is another place where the far right and the far left converge, right, is on hating Israel.
And also, being pro-Jew and pro-Israel used to be a leftist position.
And like other leftist positions, the left has totally abandoned it along with, you know, free speech and workers' rights and all kinds of other stuff.
elad eliahu
How much of this do you think is a function of them hating Israel or downstream from the base of the Democrat Party becoming leftists and as a result of Israel?
tim pool
Why are they becoming leftists?
elad eliahu
That's where the base of the party is.
Why?
I mean, that's a good question.
But as far as I don't think it's because of Israel that they're becoming leftists, though, and I think it's downstream.
tim pool
No, but they're intertwined.
So when you say the base of the party is leftist and they hate Israel, the function of what is causing that is the exact same thing.
elad eliahu
Well, I guess I wanted to focus on the framework of why the left hates Israel.
And I mentioned earlier it's because it's right-wing coded, but also because it's white-coated.
And the left does think.
Wait, so if I could finish.
libby emmons
That's right.
elad eliahu
The left views Israel as white oppressors oppressing brown people.
And that's why they are trying.
That's why they try to have an affinity for black people.
That's how they try to appeal to black people by saying, hey, look, you guys are oppressed by white people here.
tim pool
I get all that.
So that's why I think they respect.
That makes no sense.
elad eliahu
Which part isn't?
tim pool
If you were actually to apply critical theory and you actually were trying to say that we're on the side of the oppressed, you'd be pro-Israel.
elad eliahu
It depends on your narrative and framework.
I mean, I don't disagree with you on principle.
tim pool
And that's exactly the point.
If you were actually looking at...
And they say the one small ethnic minority surrounded by 2 billion Muslims is the oppressor.
unidentified
But that's because I think Americans like to reject our points.
tim pool
The point is they believe these things not because there's a logic behind them, but because they are told to believe them by PSYOPS and PR campaigns.
And people, so here's what I genuinely think about a lot of the anti-Israel sentiment.
They're bots.
Not all of them.
elad eliahu
Pakistan, I mean.
tim pool
Not all of them.
But you know what I love?
You know what I love?
Okay, I've explained, I shouldn't even caveat this.
The way bots work.
Not all accounts are bots.
You're allowed to not like Israel, but there are a lot of bots.
There's a distinction here.
When someone is running a bot campaign, these are limited, low-functioning AI auto poster bots.
They can only respond in certain ways to certain things.
What tends to happen is someone will say, we want, let's just say pancakes and waffles.
We'll isolate it.
We want somebody who hates waffles to be spam blasted until they genuinely believe everybody likes pancakes.
Why does the left believe they're on the right side of history?
Because they open their social media app and they see a video of a thousand protesters in the street and it looks like this massive gathering.
It looks like the whole world is watching.
And it's a thousand people in a city of 13 million.
But in their minds, they can't comprehend that.
So what the bots do is they'll see a lot, go on X and say, you know, I had a waffle today.
It was pretty good.
And then they'll say, oh man, we're the pancake company.
Put his account, list it under pro waffle.
Anytime he posts anything about breakfast, attack him and say he's a waffle shill, Shabos waffle, whatever.
But here's the thing.
A minute later, Elod then posts, I actually don't like waffles at all.
I think they're gross.
But you know what?
That waffle was okay.
I'm going to stick to pancakes.
The people who set up these campaigns don't realize there's nuance in his position, and he was only passively supporting it one time.
From then on, every time Elod posts waffles are bad, he gets attacked by people saying, waffles are bad.
And you're like, whoa, whoa, wait, hold on.
So here's the real world example.
I will post the U.S. should not be funding Israel.
And what do I get?
300 responses saying, why are you supporting Israel?
Hold on there a minute.
That doesn't make sense.
These people are not real.
Their images are AI generated or cartoon avatars.
And I know they're fake and they're not a real person.
It's not even a person typing the message.
They'll say, aha, did Netanyahu.
I swear to God, I'll say, I am sick of the U.S. being involved in Middle Eastern wars.
We shouldn't be funding Israel.
Israel should take care of themselves.
And I'll get a message saying, did Netanyahu pay you to say that?
And I'm like, what?
phil labonte
I get messages like that.
Like, because you met with Netanyahu, it's like, oh, what did Tim tell you?
You're not allowed to say this, blah, blah, blah.
tim pool
Can't make a distinction between nuance.
So I post an Israeli flag as a troll.
They put me in the pro-Israel camp because they can't understand that I'm screwing with them.
And now anytime I say anything critical of Israel, I get blasted by both pro- and anti-Israel every time because they're bot campaigns.
So here's what happens.
If you're, there have been people that have been affected by this.
There's a person who's like a fitness instructor and their YouTube channel is a bunch of fitness videos, not very big.
Here's how we do push-ups, whatever, I don't know.
One day, October 7th happens, and they make a video saying, you know, I've been getting a lot of messages from people asking me what my thoughts are on what's going on in Israel.
And to be honest, like, I don't really know a whole lot about it, but I know that's deeply affected a lot of you.
And I know I have a lot of fans that are deeply concerned about this.
So I thought I'd make a video addressing it.
They go from getting 10,000 views to 50,000.
libby emmons
And so then they just talk about it all the time.
tim pool
They come back to their channel and they go, whoa, I got 50,000 views for talking about Israel.
Then they look at the comments.
The comments say, this is a really great video.
You're amazing.
Can you make more?
They do.
Then he makes a video where he's like, you know, I don't really know if it's a genocide or what you'd call it, but I know that it's deeply passionate.
Then the comments are all saying genocide, genocide, genocide, genocide, genocide.
So then he makes a video saying, I think it might be a genocide.
And then all of a sudden, he gets a million views.
So not that every single time this happens, it's bots.
But my point is there are SIAP campaigns that do this.
There are a lot of people that are critical of Israel.
I've met them.
They exist.
But Israel isn't doing anything to counter any of it.
Any of it.
So my prediction is 10 years from now, the 49-year-olds are going to be 59 and they'll be out of that demo.
Eight-year-olds now are growing up with young women getting pulled over by cops and saying, Did you know there's a genocide in Palestine?
It is the branding.
Listen, listen, I don't care what she says.
What if the cop pulled her over and trolled the window and she was like, If you need a cash settlement and you want to get paid or whatever that song is, if you have a structured settlement, you need cash now.
libby emmons
I'd be like, Right.
tim pool
I'd be like, that's branding.
The fact that this drunk lady, allegedly, can just blurt it out means she doesn't know anything about anything, but in her brain, that's something she's memorized.
So what happens when a kid grows up watching TikTok and Instagram shorts and YouTube shorts, and that's all they see?
And Israel does nothing in terms of any kind of PR?
Okay, 10, 10 years from now, that 53, minus 53 will be minus 60. And that's when Congress says we vote to defund Israel.
batya ungar-sargon
But I think, okay, first of all, I think that there is a kind of like the current thing aspect to it, you know, like the left does tend to move from one thing to the next.
tim pool
Agreed.
batya ungar-sargon
It just happens to be that this is a global thing, and the war is still ongoing for reasons we can talk about, none of them good.
So like it is a thing that has, you know, like legitimate criticism attached to it that is global and happened to have been the current thing.
And also, I think Israel is making a lot of friends in the Middle East.
Like it's becoming much less dependent on U.S. largesse.
We're going to end up at a situation, possibly, I don't think so, I think these numbers will improve for Israel, but we're going to end up in a situation where the U.S., for its own strategic purposes, wants to be giving that money more than Israel wants to be taking it because it has local friends, possibly Saudi Arabia, currently the UAE, et cetera, who are more than happy to enter into that kind of relationship and have that kind of intelligence sharing, et cetera.
So I don't look at this as a pro-Israel person and feel like terror.
I feel like, you know, I have a lot of trust in the American people, the moral intuitions of the American people, the greatest people on planet Earth, and they will arrive at the right situation.
But I don't think that this is like the current geopolitical situation that Israel is in is significant.
It's not.
tim pool
Perception is reality.
And right now on social media, name a prominent conservative with a big following that's grown substantially, that is pro-Israel, that is advocating for strikes on Iran in favor of Israel.
I mean, literally the inverse of what we see with prominent conservatives who have massive followings and get 12 million views.
batya ungar-sargon
But didn't we just see in the last two weeks that their influence is like null and void?
Like it doesn't matter how many Twitter polls they put up and when, like, actually, the American people supported what President Trump did.
Well, I mean, the real polls show that what he did was wildly popular.
tim pool
What polls?
batya ungar-sargon
Well, 76% of GOP voters approved of it.
tim pool
65% approved.
batya ungar-sargon
That same poll you just cited says the overall American public, it's minus 11. But 80% of Americans oppose Iran getting a nuclear deal.
tim pool
But they don't support military strikes.
batya ungar-sargon
They don't support Trump.
They don't support anything he does.
But they 80%.
tim pool
The average person?
Trump's approval rating is actually really good right now.
batya ungar-sargon
Yeah, but the average Democrat who's part of this 80% who wants Iran not to have a nuclear weapon is going to oppose whatever Trump does to make their wishes come true because they're going to oppose whatever Trump does, period.
tim pool
Well, not just that, but the disapproval that Trump has in the GOP for the strikes in Iran is slightly higher than his general disapproval in the party, suggesting more Republicans.
batya ungar-sargon
we just see that the influencers have no influence?
Like, all of these anti-final influencers were not able to influence, like, Trump's actions or...
tim pool
That's why we didn't invade.
batya ungar-sargon
Oh, come on.
You don't think that.
tim pool
What do you mean?
Trump met with Steve Bennon.
Why did Trump meet with Steve Bannon?
batya ungar-sargon
Like they were reaching out to influencers to be like, we hear you.
You know what I mean?
Wouldn't that suggest that there wasn't actually listening to us?
libby emmons
They had a delayed lunch.
Like Bannon had, they had a previous.
batya ungar-sargon
Trump would never have done regime change.
It's like against everything he believes in.
tim pool
I think that if the entirety of his base was screaming for regime change, he'd do it.
batya ungar-sargon
No.
Troops on the ground, he was calling people in 2004.
elad eliahu
I think regime change and troops on the ground.
It's pissed.
It doesn't have to be.
tim pool
Let me rephrase that.
I think if the entirety of Trump's base said, we want escalation, we want more action, Trump would have said, okay.
batya ungar-sargon
He would have thought about it, but he should have.
I mean, that's how democracy is supposed to work, right?
The fact is the majority of his base didn't want it, despite the fact that all of the influencers were pushing Trump not to get involved, not to drop these bombs, not to assist Israel.
But they were irrelevant in this story.
Isn't that not what we just saw?
Like the irrelevant.
tim pool
Yeah, but I think the influencers had influence.
I think the reason Trump's frustrated and wants a ceasefire and he wants limited interaction is because he knows that he's got these intelligence reports saying, do it or you have to.
But then he's got his base screaming, we don't want this, and he's stuck between them.
batya ungar-sargon
I don't think that's true.
elad eliahu
Although we like to say mainstream media has completely lost their influence, I think Fox News probably has more viewers than Twitter does have active followers on certain times.
Twitter is just completely filled with foreign influence campaigns.
And it seems as though a lot of people who had a lot of different jobs have all of a sudden become Middle Eastern experts.
I know people who used to be comedians who had not many people show up to their shows seem to get millions of impressions right now on Twitter as a result of this, as a result of their commentary on stuff they actually know next to nothing about.
I do agree with you, though, that Israel in the future, they're losing support from Democrats, but that's the reason why I think it's going to become a partisan issue.
And I think one of the biggest threats to Israel is one of the biggest threats to America as well.
And what is that?
It's socialism and socialists in our country.
So I think the support for Israel drops when socialism becomes popular in our country.
So Israel and really America do have the same biggest threat.
And that's.
tim pool
Let's just conclude this.
Would y'all agree that there is a large amount of individuals on social media that are profiting off of being anti-Israel?
elad eliahu
Of course.
batya ungar-sargon
Yeah, but I don't think they're having any impact for any influence, despite being called influencers.
elad eliahu
I think they're getting a lot of likes from Pakistan.
batya ungar-sargon
Yeah, or from like 2 billion Muslims who are desperate for likes.
elad eliahu
So not Americans.
What did an American version of these social media ask?
tim pool
How does the left recruit for these protests?
How do they have so many young people showing up?
And why does some random woman getting pulled over a cop say?
batya ungar-sargon
How many people do you think have protested against Israel in America since the beginning of the Gaza thing?
Like, what's a number you think would— You think that's a lot?
I think that's very little.
tim pool
For protests, it's probably like low mid.
batya ungar-sargon
Over the course of two years, I think that's very little.
tim pool
I would call that low mid.
batya ungar-sargon
And when you compare it to what's going on in like Canada or the UK, where you have like millions of people.
tim pool
But this is not the question I'm asking.
I'm asking about a trend direction.
Why are people who don't know anything about the region all of a sudden violent and fervent over it?
batya ungar-sargon
No, I totally agree with your analysis of people being like captured by the algorithm.
tim pool
And so what is it?
And then what is anyone, be it AIPAC, Israel, or the U.S. or pro-Israel groups, doing to combat this?
batya ungar-sargon
But I don't know that something has to be done.
That's what I'm trying to say.
It's like, I don't really care that there's a bunch of like people being captured by the algorithm making money off of this content and being viewed by a bunch of people in Pakistan or what have you.
Like I don't know that this is like a crisis.
tim pool
So why do you think over three years sentiment has shifted 11 points negatively for Israel?
batya ungar-sargon
We've had a violent war.
tim pool
Well, a war has two parties in it.
Couldn't that have shifted negatively for the Palestinians?
batya ungar-sargon
So again, I think you have to, the why, you have to separate why it's happening on the left and why it's happening on the right.
It's happening on the left because as Alad said, the center of gravity of the Democratic Party has turned against Israel.
Why the right?
So that's a totally different question.
elad eliahu
So why are young conservatives, and I think a lot of this has to do with- I think it's overstated on the right, completely overstated, and I think it's because many people who are not truly MAGA appropriate MAGA.
So for example, a lot of these isolationists or libertarian types aren't truly MAGA.
And President Trump even says of people like Thomas Massey, Congressman Thomas Massey, who's been a very good person.
libby emmons
You just interrupted Batia, though.
So like, I can interrupt you.
That was literally what I was thinking.
tim pool
Also, I don't know any of that.
elad eliahu
Oh, thanks for letting me.
No.
tim pool
Actually, I know one.
elad eliahu
So my point here specifically, President Trump put out this truth where he said Congressman Thomas Massey of Kentucky is not MAGA, even though he likes to say he is.
I think that's true of many libertarian leading types who aren't truly MAGA.
About what part?
tim pool
He's wrong about Thomas Massey.
elad eliahu
I don't think that he's not MAGA.
tim pool
Well, you can call whoever you want not MAGA, but he's wrong about Thomas Massey in terms of Massey's support and his principles.
elad eliahu
Well, I think he's spot on that Thomas Massey is a grandstander that votes with the Democrats, especially at a time like this.
It's frankly ridiculous.
He's anti-MAGA agenda.
How is that wrong?
tim pool
He's posturing against Thomas Massey.
phil labonte
He's posturing against the one being principled.
I haven't touched the word in like half an hour.
What are you talking about?
elad eliahu
All right, so interrupt me mid-sentence.
phil labonte
Bro, don't talk.
tim pool
Thomas Massey's record speaks for itself.
elad eliahu
Yeah, he's voting against the one big, beautiful bill.
tim pool
And he voted against COVID funding.
elad eliahu
So I think he's anti-MAGA agenda because he's voting against the One Big Beautiful Bill.
And I think that's clear-cut and obvious.
tim pool
Trump can call anybody he wants not MAGA.
It's his brand.
elad eliahu
Is Thomas Massey wrong for voting against the One Big Beautiful Bill?
tim pool
Yes.
elad eliahu
Okay, there we go.
tim pool
Indeed.
And I like Thomas Massey.
I think he's the best member of Congress we have right now, even though I disagree with him.
Rand Paul also said he would vote against the Big Beautiful Bill.
However, he did concede if it came down to him as a deciding vote, he would vote in favor of it.
And I tremendously respect that because I think Rand Paul and Thomas Massey are two of the most principled people we have in Congress.
I wish we had more people like them.
I wish everybody was like them, even when they're wrong.
elad eliahu
So I think Congress is where you go to, frankly, compromise.
You know, if you want to get anything done in Congress, you're going to have to compromise.
And that's why President Trump calls him a grandstander.
libby emmons
I think if Massey is doing what his constituents want, then he's doing the right thing.
elad eliahu
I think it's anti-MAGA.
libby emmons
It doesn't matter, though.
I mean, the only thing that's happening.
elad eliahu
President Trump thinks it's anti-MAGA.
unidentified
You guys need to go before the show started to show you anti-MAGA.
tim pool
A lot is correct.
Trump decides what's MAGA or not.
He does.
It's his brand.
It's his slogan.
It's his agenda.
And if he says Massey's not MAGA, then Massey's not MAGA.
elad eliahu
There should be like a little Cosmo quizzer for like Massey is weak, ineffective, and votes no on virtually everything put before him, no matter how good it may be.
So, I mean, I think Donald Trump is really spot on here.
libby emmons
And he says that he wants to.
His guys put together a super PAC to get Massey out.
tim pool
I don't think it'll work.
elad eliahu
Well, I think it's a message to these Republicans who aren't falling in line with the MAGA agenda.
And I think it's important for Republicans to fall in line with the MAGA agenda because Donald Trump won the majority of the votes in the past election, right?
I thought he had, what was this, this mandate, right?
Well, apparently Thomas Massey disagrees.
libby emmons
Or his constituents disagree.
elad eliahu
He's the one who's voting.
I don't know.
unidentified
So let's just, let's just, let's just put a bow on this.
tim pool
We'll put a bow on the subject.
Did I just close that poll?
So my question is, final thoughts on this so we can move on, but what changes the course of this polling?
What will happen where people go, actually, I was wrong.
I don't dislike Israel.
I like Israel.
What will change?
elad eliahu
Fighting back against socialism in our country.
libby emmons
Or the next or the next testy.
elad eliahu
I think fighting against the ideology of socialism and democratic socialism in our country will correlate aggressively with support for Israel in our country.
tim pool
Why?
elad eliahu
So, yes.
Because people in our country who are, these young people who are anti-Israel are leftists who believe that Israel is right-wing coded and white-coated, and that's why they hate Israel.
tim pool
You're missing the big picture of someone told them that.
elad eliahu
And if they stop being socialists, well, they'll stop looking at sociology.
tim pool
So I guess the issue I take with your answer is a broad question.
There's a broad answer that's vague and nebulous, targeting a very specific issue.
So I feel like you're not answering the question.
Fight socialism and people will like Israel seems to be a non-sequitur.
elad eliahu
No, I'm saying they're strongly correlated.
tim pool
Yeah, but you've not explained how.
I don't feel like you've answered the question.
elad eliahu
Because lefties and socialists view Israel as a country that is quote-unquote white, right-wing.
Which leaves a gap of why.
batya ungar-sargon
because they're told that the propaganda narrative they think that because they have a college degree Whether you've been indoctrinated three years.
In universities, you get this woke indoctrination where there's no like right versus wrong, the way like normal people think about the world.
There's just who has more power and who has less.
And then they superimpose some racial category or some gender category, what have you.
And whoever is the white person, like a lot of saying, is evil and bad.
And whoever is the person of color is oppressed and therefore inherently virtuous.
And they side with them inherently.
This is like every humanity.
tim pool
So why do high school students also agree?
batya ungar-sargon
Because it's that that curriculum is dripping down.
Every teacher that has a lot of people in the world.
elad eliahu
That's a critical race theory in our left.
phil labonte
Because the left has infested the schools of education to teach the teachers.
So all of the curriculum that the teachers learn is all leftist.
So the teachers that are teaching high school as well as college, these people all went to the same colleges of education that have a leftist indoctrination built around.
tim pool
So now, the reason why I reject what you've said is your argument could actually be summarized by fighting socialism entails altering the curriculum of various schools from the bottom up through various universities, then altering social media algorithms to stop the spread of these ideas, which in a grand scale can be applied in certain ways where someone could accuse Israel of being bad.
After we do that, we'll run a campaign that would start to convince people that Israel is actually not right-coded and the arguments that they've been using on critical theory don't apply to Israel properly.
And now they're you see.
batya ungar-sargon
Because Tim, we're saying this is a symptom of another problem.
Like this is not a problem.
tim pool
So my question is, what specific thing happens that changes the sentiment?
libby emmons
Transport.
elad eliahu
I think socialism becoming unpopular in our country.
tim pool
It's not an answer.
You keep saying the same thing over and over again.
libby emmons
What about like the next?
tim pool
Well, let me tell you this.
I think that Israel will gain support if we all buy Bitcoin.
If we all just bought Bitcoin, people would support Israel.
batya ungar-sargon
Wait, is that, are you joking?
tim pool
Yeah, I'm basically because he's not giving an answer.
Fight socialism, people like Israel.
unidentified
Why?
tim pool
They're not related.
elad eliahu
I think they're completely related.
And I think the most prominent anti-Israel people are Democratic socialists and far-left people in Congress.
tim pool
I don't think you have answers for this.
batya ungar-sargon
I have a different answer.
Oh, go ahead.
tim pool
Well, what's your answer?
unidentified
Oh.
batya ungar-sargon
Well, my answer is that support for Israel is like many other things that have become marginalized by left-wing indoctrination.
It's a normie value.
It's the kind of thing that regular people who don't have fancy degrees inherently are drawn to, like the idea that marriage is a really good idea or there's a difference between boys and girls.
tim pool
You think support for Israel is like marriage?
batya ungar-sargon
Yeah, in the mind of like, if you would look at the polling, like the like a middle, regular middle-class American who does not, has not been influenced either by woke university curriculum or by, you know, online whatever on the far right, like it's a, it's the kind of thing that Christians in America feel very attached to, for example.
tim pool
The Holy Land.
libby emmons
And that whole Ted Cruz thing.
batya ungar-sargon
And the problem with this country right now is actually not ideological so much as it is the class divide.
It's not the problem.
The problem is not so much that a certain sub-sector of Americans go to college and get a college degree and have like terrible ideas.
It's that those are the people who have access to the American dream.
And that normie people, like regular people, working class people, people who don't have access to that stream of education and those knowledge industry jobs have been in a large way economically disenfranchised in this country.
unidentified
Right.
tim pool
So Republicans.
batya ungar-sargon
So the way that you fix for that is what Trump is doing right now, which is you create an economy that instead of being an upward funnel of wealth is actually a downward funnel of wealth through things like tariffs and right.
tim pool
And so why then do key demo Republicans support Israel less by 15% over three years?
batya ungar-sargon
You mean young people?
tim pool
Well, 49-year-olds aren't young.
batya ungar-sargon
Yeah, well, like I said, I think this is a reflection of the war, which has been going on for three years.
elad eliahu
Still also almost two-thirds of Republicans.
tim pool
Again, my point being, it takes two to tango in a war.
So the argument that I've made is that Israel is failing at PR is correct.
phil labonte
Where's that Hasbro?
batya ungar-sargon
Yeah, of course it's failing at, but also the war is going to end at some point, and there's going to be a new next big thing.
People are going to move on from this.
It's not going to be when there's no war in Gaza.
tim pool
What changes that sentiment?
batya ungar-sargon
When there's going to be no more.
tim pool
Like the default position isn't going to be support for Israel.
People are just going to be like, the war's over and I hate Israel.
batya ungar-sargon
No, it's going to be like the war's over and I don't think about Israel, which is a fine thing for an American.
libby emmons
It's like nobody thinks about Sudan.
There was an attack on a hospital in Sudan, and the World Health Organization was really upset about it.
And it killed like 40 people.
And it was the only hospital in the area.
They killed a bunch of kids.
tim pool
Let's jump to this next story, which doesn't deviate too much, but we have this from Reuters.
It's from this morning.
And it is an outdated story, but there is a component of it.
Explosions ring out in Tehran despite Trump's order to Israel to stop the strikes.
batya ungar-sargon
Notice the passive tense in Ring Out.
That's going to come back.
tim pool
Ring Out.
Well, we have this video, which is one of the best videos of President Trump ever.
Oh, absolutely.
So I'll set it up basically this morning.
Trump says Iran and Israel both violated the ceasefire.
He then followed up with this.
unidentified
The people says that Iran violated the peace agreement and the ceasefire agreement.
Do you believe that Iran is still committed to peace?
donald j trump
Yeah, I do.
They violated it, but Israel violated it too.
tim pool
Are you questioning if Israel was going to be?
donald j trump
Israel, as soon as we made the deal, they came out and they dropped a load of bombs, the likes of which I've never seen before.
The biggest load that we've seen.
I'm not happy with Israel.
You know, when I say, okay, now you have 12 hours, you don't go out in the first hour and just drop everything you have on them.
So I'm not happy with them.
I'm not happy with Iran either.
But I'm really unhappy if Israel's going out this morning because the one rocket that didn't land, that was shot, perhaps by mistake, that didn't land.
unidentified
I'm not happy about that.
donald j trump
You know what?
We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don't know what the fuck they're doing.
Do you understand that?
tim pool
Legend.
Legend.
Now, the reason I brought up the Reuters post is that an hour and a half after Trump said, do not drop those bombs, Israel won't do it.
They're doing a plane wave.
The report came out that, in fact, Israel still went ahead with at least one of the strikes on a radar station in Iran in defiance of Trump saying, don't do it.
Trump was pissed and dropped an expletive, which is kind of shocking for a president.
But I love it.
I love it.
libby emmons
I loved the mafia tone of, do you understand?
You know, I wanted him to almost say capish.
tim pool
I think Trump is, well, he's clearly pissed, but I was shocked.
And, you know, it was a coin toss for me.
Will Israel defy what Donald Trump is saying?
unidentified
And they did.
tim pool
So what's the ramification of that going to be?
unidentified
Will Trump hold a grudge in foreign aid to Israel?
batya ungar-sargon
Well, basically what happened was he, after that amazing, amazing moment, got Bibi Netanyahu on the phone and was like, what is going on here?
We had a ceasefire.
And Netanyahu alleged that there were rockets shot into Israel from Iran that had to be responded to.
They had to get rid of this one last rocket launcher.
So he was going to send out a much bigger barrage.
And then after talking to Trump, he said, all right, we'll just send out the one.
They blasted the rocket launcher.
And apparently Trump was satisfied with that.
That's just the reporting that came out.
Take that as you will.
I also thought that was an amazing moment.
It was to me because he was on his way to NATO and it felt a lot like, you know, when your dad is driving like you to a wedding or something and you're fighting with your siblings in the back and like your dad's hand comes back is like, shut the F up.
tim pool
Two hours.
It's an hour and 45 minutes after Trump said, don't do it.
And actually it was, I believe it was like a full two hours.
Trump posted on truth, Israel do not drop those bombs and Israel will not drop those bombs.
And they did.
phil labonte
Was there excuse that they were already in transit or the mission?
tim pool
An hour and a half later, you could turn around at any point.
phil labonte
I mean, I'm not saying that they couldn't, but the point that I'm making is they might be like, oh, well, we just.
tim pool
Like, we tried calling the pilot with the bombs and he's not answering.
phil labonte
Well, they're going to make up, they're a state.
They're going to make up all kinds of excuses as to why they couldn't.
batya ungar-sargon
They both violated it, both Iran and Israel.
tim pool
I'm just saying, will Trump tolerate being made to look like a chump?
elad eliahu
So I think actually President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu are on the same page and they're playing good cop, bad cop throughout this entire thing.
I think there's been intelligence sharing the entire time and they have been on the same page and have been coordinating together.
And in order to get Iran to the negotiating table, Israel's the bad guy and Trump's trying to be the good guy.
phil labonte
It's like 4D chess.
elad eliahu
I don't even, I think it's like 2D chess.
It's like actually really straightforward.
It's just extremely straightforward the way he's posturing.
I think Trump has a lot of moral clarity when it comes to Israel.
I think the whole thing's been an act.
tim pool
That anger, that F-bomb, they wrote it.
elad eliahu
Not knowing about what Israel was going to do, how they were going to attack.
I think the United States has been doing intelligence sharing with Israel throughout this entire thing.
And I think Trump probably signed off on a lot of these attacks.
He just wanted the plausible deniability of not being involved until he saw that it was a success.
So the people who are like, the isolationist thinkers who are like, oh, maybe this means that Donald Trump's not going to support Israel anymore, I think are really missing the bigger picture of the people.
tim pool
Of the isolationists.
phil labonte
Thomas Massey.
elad eliahu
Thomas Massey types.
tim pool
I don't think Thomas Massey.
elad eliahu
Comedians on Twitter.
tim pool
Is Thomas Massey an actual isolationist, or are you just saying that as an insult?
elad eliahu
Wait, I don't think isolationist is an insult to people who believe that the United States...
phil labonte
You do everything you can say.
elad eliahu
I think it's desolation.
tim pool
They describe themselves as non-interventionalists, and then they're called isolationists because it's an extreme position meant to poison.
elad eliahu
I don't mean it as a slur.
I don't know what it is.
tim pool
It's poisoning the well.
It's a deceptive tactic to where I say something like, the standard of proof required for a strike on a foreign country is high.
And they say, so you're an isolationist?
No.
I think there's lots of people we can be bombing.
I'm just saying the standard of proof you need.
batya ungar-sargon
I'm not yourself a non-interventionalist either.
tim pool
I'm anti-intervention, absolutely.
elad eliahu
So I think the non-interventionalists were hopeful that President Trump would, you know, clean his hands of the Middle East and the United States.
tim pool
I know very few people who call themselves isolationists.
The people who tend to be in favor of war refer to people who don't want their war isolationist.
So if I said something like, I understand the precision strikes on the Houthi rebels, despite the fact Trump said he wouldn't do it, I'm kind of lukewarm on the issue.
That's not isolationist.
unidentified
It's like, oh, okay, they were shutting down the Red Sea.
tim pool
Non-intervention in terms of boots on the ground against regimes.
If we're talking about, so I'll put it this way.
I interviewed Seb Gorka and he said, we understand the sentiment.
You don't want the U.S. military to go and start bombing all these things.
We're going to draw the line at no regime change, no invasions.
But if there is a rebel group, if there are the Houthi rebels, if there are terrorist cells, we will do precision strikes.
And I go, all right, I'm not going to bash my head on the table and scream.
No, I'm going to say we've compromised.
Isolationist is, isolationist literally refers to cutting off trade with foreign countries.
elad eliahu
No.
tim pool
Absolutely, it doesn't mean it's isolation.
batya ungar-sargon
But Tim, would you support, like, knowing what we know now, let's say the ceasefire holds, retrospectively, would you support the attack on Fordo?
unidentified
No.
batya ungar-sargon
Even now?
tim pool
Yes.
batya ungar-sargon
Do you worry about Iran getting a nuclear weapon?
tim pool
60%.
I think that it's certainly not been sold to the American people.
That's why it's divisive.
So there's questions of certainly Dave Smith doesn't believe they were close to getting one, even though there are reports of it.
batya ungar-sargon
Do you believe they had an intention to at some point get one?
tim pool
I think it is 60%, right?
Based on the evidence, I put the probability slightly greater than chance.
batya ungar-sargon
And what is your level of opposition to them having a nuclear weapon?
tim pool
That they would give it to the Houthi rebels and other insurgent groups for dirty bombs.
batya ungar-sargon
Can you be comfortable with them just having one?
tim pool
If Iran had a nuclear bomb, the question is, if Iran wasn't going to give fissile material to random crackpot religious extremists, which I think they would, that's the threat.
phil labonte
They could do that, though.
tim pool
Indeed.
phil labonte
They could.
tim pool
Of course.
And they may with the 900 pounds of fissile material they have.
So if Iran has a nuke, what is the threat?
Honest question.
It's not a gotcha.
It's not a rhetorical question.
phil labonte
An arms race in the Middle East between Saudi Arabia.
tim pool
But why?
phil labonte
Saudi Arabia has said that they would see.
tim pool
They say all things all the time.
phil labonte
Okay, so then we could, Well, you can, if you're going to ask the things that are likely, and then I'm going to say, well, these are the things that people have said, and then you said, well, I don't believe them.
There's no point in even having the conversation.
You should be like, well, I don't, I'm going to believe the arguments.
And I think the things that I want and not believe the things that I don't want, like, or the things that fit the right.
tim pool
So the issue is: what is our risk assessment?
What is the risk that if we intervene with B-2 bombers and drop 14 bunker busters on a foreign country, that we drag other nations into the war and trigger the arms race itself?
Okay, so Mua Margadafi gave up his arms program.
phil labonte
What happened, though?
tim pool
Mu'a Margadafi gave up his arms program.
unidentified
Yes.
tim pool
And he was assured of certain sanctions would be dropped, that the UN was going to basically allow him to start developing without obstruction.
They did not.
So what did he do?
It was somewhere around like 2009.
He said, then we're going to keep enriching uranium.
And they said, you will die now.
And so what happens?
We triggered an arms race.
Iran becomes dead set on getting a nuclear bomb because they're like, if we negotiate with you, you're going to kill us anyway.
phil labonte
Iran's been dead set on nuclear bomb.
libby emmons
Yeah, I mean, in 1995, the estimates were that they might have it in four years.
tim pool
The point is when the U.S. negotiates and then kills the guy, you affirm in the minds of those people in the region why they need to have those weapons.
batya ungar-sargon
This is something I heard you say.
I don't think that these are mutually exclusive.
Like, it's not mutually exclusive that Trump was negotiating in good faith and also at some point became convinced that they were not and therefore green lit the operation.
Like he could have been negotiating in good faith upon the future.
tim pool
So here are the questions.
unidentified
Here are the questions.
tim pool
Do you believe that Trump's strike on Fodo, Nanance, and Isfara succeeded?
batya ungar-sargon
Of course.
tim pool
And that Iran will not be able now to enrich any uranium?
batya ungar-sargon
We don't know for how long, right?
We don't know that because we don't have boots.
unidentified
Longer than a year.
Yeah.
tim pool
At least a year or longer than that.
batya ungar-sargon
I think probably long, but I'm not like I haven't seen enough.
We don't have enough information to do.
elad eliahu
This is at best kick.
What if it can down the road?
The real solution has to be diplomacy because, again, we could prevent them.
We could keep bombing their nuclear facilities.
But if they could bring them back up to date within six months to 12 months, then it has to be negotiations where they're saying we will shelve our ambitions to do it.
Otherwise, we're going to keep bombing them.
And then regime change becomes a serious conversation.
tim pool
Right now, the argument that I should, or anyone should feel safer after they just dispersed an estimated 900 pounds of uranium to God knows where, and that's, if you want to believe the reporting, I suppose, the U.S. officials, according to the New York Times, whether we trust them or not, sometimes they lie, doesn't know where 400 kilograms of fissile material went.
And there's concerns that even J.D. Vance brought up that they enriched it to about 60%.
They can weaponize that.
Now, with the strikes on Iran, we may have potentially emboldened those crackpot groups who may actually receive those materials.
So there is a whole spattering of, we honestly don't know.
We can believe the Defense Intelligence Agency's report that the strikes didn't work.
And people are going to be like, well, why would I disagree with that?
Or they're going to say, yep, Trump's the primary source on the guy with the real briefings.
Why would he lie?
Well, maybe he's lying for political reasons because it didn't work.
The initial reporting beforehand was that bunker busters would not be able to do it.
Not only was the concern that the basis was too deep underground for a single bunker buster, even if you were to get multiple bunker busters in the same spots, which is possible, FOIA was also spread out to a great degree with multiple points of entry and egress, indicating that even if we were to take out certain parts of it, they could still operate other areas or even start rebuilding the areas that were damaged.
The IAEA says that it appears that there's a chemical spill rendering this area contaminated, which could set them back.
So the argument now is we don't know how long they're set back.
Trump says totally obliterated.
Does that mean they can't do it ever again?
Well, the answer is no, they can always start rebuilding.
And if we're not going to go with regime changing boots on the ground, they probably will.
I don't know why they'd stop.
We now know the assumption is 900 pounds of fissile material have been spread out and we don't know where they went.
So no, I don't feel safer.
I don't feel any different at all.
Now, I will say if the ceasefire holds, Trump has a tremendous victory and that he was able to bomb a foreign country targeting their nuclear sites, a key component of like the mission without triggering a dramatic escalation is a massive and historic victory for anybody who wants to take on military action.
But for the regular average person, you're going to choose what you want to believe.
They didn't have a nuclear weapon.
They did have nuclear fissile material.
They had the capabilities of arming Houthi rebels and other insurgent groups who have killed Americans and launched rockets and fought with our troops in the Middle East.
batya ungar-sargon
I mean, the IRC is the only one has killed American citizens.
tim pool
Agreed.
And the only thing that's changed with this strike right now is that we have potentially given them a justification for why they should disperse this material among psychopaths.
unidentified
And we don't know where it is.
batya ungar-sargon
I think that the story around the story is as important.
And for example, the fact that Russia refused to come to Iran's aid.
What you're really seeing here is Trump rewriting the entire international global relations, basically.
We would have thought that the Iranians would have held up much better against the Israelis.
They did not.
We would have thought that China or Russia would have come immediately to their aid.
They refused.
tim pool
China did.
batya ungar-sargon
They sort of did, but they didn't in a big way.
And Russia saying, actually, we're staying out of this.
I'm going to call Donald Trump and offer to mediate this because I have a thing going with him that's going pretty good for me.
And maybe I'm going to be rejoining the West and leaving this new axis of China, Iran, Russia.
Like that Trump picked off one by one, like each of these big diplomatic trip.
And Qatar, like getting the Iranians to shoot this sort of fake, face-saving barrage into Qatar to piss off the Qataris, their only sort of pseudo-ally from that trip.
tim pool
So let's just lay down some basic points.
Do you agree with the assessment that they have gotten the 400 kilograms out of nuclear facilities and we don't know where they are?
batya ungar-sargon
That has been reported.
I think there's a fog.
We're in fog of war.
So like I've seen reports of that.
I think a lot of the stuff is unknowable at this situation, including how long it'll take for them to regroup.
We just don't know.
But I think we've changed the conversation domestically, and I think we've changed the conversation internationally.
tim pool
With the probability that despite fog of war, there is the probability based on the reporting that, and I think just general common sense, when it became clear that Trump was telling them six months out, we're going to bomb your nuclear facilities, Iran probably set up contingencies for getting their uranium out because they want to keep it.
That's like you're negotiating.
You don't leave all your money in a bag in front of the guy who's going to take it from you.
So I think there's a decent probability the uranium is gone.
phil labonte
It's in China.
tim pool
Who knows?
16, 17 trucks were seen in a satellite image.
That's just one satellite image.
phil labonte
There's an airplane that came in too.
tim pool
That's right.
And China sent cargo planes.
phil labonte
That's right.
tim pool
And so with that being said, do you think that the U.S. striking Iran could anger Iranian-backed interests of any faction who may get access to that uranium?
batya ungar-sargon
I think these people were like psychopaths trying to build a nuclear bomb to, you know, eviscerate Israel and to hurt America.
And I don't think that this changes the calculation.
They were that before and they were probably still that.
tim pool
Do you think that Iran would have launched a nuclear weapon at Israel as soon as they got it?
batya ungar-sargon
That's what they said.
So we could say, oh, you're lying to me.
Like, you don't really want to do that.
You really love me.
You don't need it.
But that's what they said.
They said, we want a nuclear weapon so that we can wipe Israel off the face of the planet and destroy America afterwards.
Like that, that's just their stated foreign policy objective.
So like the idea that we could anger them into being even worse than like psychopaths who want a nuclear weapon to hurt our children and to destroy our ally, Israel, like I like, I don't see that as like a real argument.
tim pool
Aaron Powell, I guess the question is, were they actually close to building a nuclear weapon capable of launching it?
batya ungar-sargon
I don't think that's a question.
Like we had an opportunity here.
I think this is what I think happened.
I think Trump initially probably didn't want to back the Israelis, but they were so successful and met with such little resistance.
I mean, the absolute mastery of what they pulled off left him with this opportunity.
I honestly don't think it matters if the Iranians were close, if it was going to be in six months, or if it was going to be in five years.
We had an opportunity to protect our children's future.
Like you take that opportunity when you get it and to do it safely.
tim pool
What risk do the U.S. have to Iran having a nuke?
batya ungar-sargon
The way that I think about it is Iran poses an existential threat to Israel.
It does not pose an existential threat to the United States.
It poses a strategic threat to our interests and a very, very big one.
And I think that diplomacy, I agree with a lot, is like the best way to get something like this to happen.
But I think they were stringing the president along, and I think that pissed him off.
tim pool
So do you think Iran at this point will just back down and cease hostilities?
batya ungar-sargon
I think the Ayatollah is very weak right now.
He seems to me to have been isolated during this whole thing.
I think the regime is very weak.
I don't believe that we should be engaged in regime change.
I think probably all of us would agree it would be wonderful if the Iranian people themselves were able to find their way to a less brutal regime.
But honestly, I think what changed was, you know, this is something now we're all aware of is, you know, like, okay, like this is a conversation that we're having that we were not having before because of the Obama-era appeasement strategy that seemed to have failed.
So, yeah.
Others?
elad eliahu
I think that was succinct.
I do think that if Iran got a nuclear weapon, they would definitely consider at least letting their proxy use it against American troops in the region so they have some plausible deniability against them.
Also, if they were to acquire a nuclear weapon, it would sort of be the ultimate insurance policy for them.
They're, you know, we wouldn't be able to inflict as much damage on them, assuming that they could use the nuclear threat in response.
So the same reason that, you know, we ultimately can't support Ukraine too much, we don't want them to be too successful against Russia, is because we don't want to trigger a nuclear response.
We don't want to give that option to sworn enemies of our country who support proxy groups in the area that attack Americans and our allies.
tim pool
I see this only as having changed the circumstances and alleviated nothing.
elad eliahu
It's kicking the can down the road, but the military pressure should get us to a deal.
tim pool
I think it's just changed the circumstances.
elad eliahu
It did change the circumstances.
tim pool
If Iran was intent on using a nuke to blow up a country, then wouldn't they not say, okay, plan B, let's disperse this uranium into a bunch of dirty bombs and have them detonate into a bunch of major cities.
elad eliahu
I don't think that's in the regime's best interest right now because that would guarantee their top off.
tim pool
Why would nuking Israel be in their best interest?
elad eliahu
Well, that's been their stated goal of the Ayatollah by 2040 was to completely wipe off Israel off the mouth.
tim pool
If they can smuggle weapons into Gaza, why not smuggle some uranium and dirty bombs now?
batya ungar-sargon
I mean, just like the level of intelligence, the number of Mossad agents embedded in the highest levels of the ITRG.
So I think that there is going to be a lot more attention paid to that.
And that intelligence is very much in our interests as Americans as well.
elad eliahu
I just think it's dangerous for radical Muslims to get a nuclear weapon.
I don't know.
Call me crazy, but...
Yeah.
And I think it's a bad thing that Pakistan has a weapon.
So I don't understand how that's an argument against me, really.
It's a bad thing that they have.
tim pool
Oh, do we?
libby emmons
38% of votes are in, and Mom Dani is leading in Brooklyn and Queens.
tim pool
He's winning.
libby emmons
Exactly.
tim pool
Let's get back to this story and talk about the far left taking over.
Ladies and gentlemen, from Fox News, Chicago Tribune warns New York to avoid socialist mayoral candidate after mistake, Brandon Johnson.
And the results are coming in for the Democrat primary in New York.
Zoron Mamdani is winning By nine points with 43.1% to Cuomo's 34%.
Looks like the anti-Israel Democratic Socialist is going to win.
libby emmons
Well, 38%.
But yeah, it's not looking good in Brooklyn and Queens and Manhattan.
Cuomo has the Bronx and Staten Island so far.
tim pool
Manhattan went Zoran.
libby emmons
Yeah, that's pretty crazy.
tim pool
Those rich people are most of the rich people fled during COVID.
phil labonte
Yeah, they live on the other side.
libby emmons
Well, 200,000 of them at least went to Florida.
I left, but I wasn't even rich.
phil labonte
So is this New York's going to get what it deserves?
Which is what it votes for.
Like the David Freeberg from the All in podcast had a big, long tweet about it, and he's like, look, we should actually hope that Mom Donnie actually wins, like the whole thing, and that he does all of the things that he's talking about doing.
Because the point that Freeberg was making in the tweet was this sentiment, which is something we've been talking about all night, the leftist sentiment, the socialist sentiment is something that's actually very popular among young people in the United States.
And his argument was, let this happen to New York.
Let people see the terrible results of an actual socialist mayor, an actual socialist.
So that way the rest of the country can avoid this kind of terrorist.
libby emmons
But we saw it in Chicago.
phil labonte
Well, apparently we haven't seen it enough.
So then we have to go ahead and let this guy win.
elad eliahu
That's cutting off your nose to spite your face.
phil labonte
You live in New York, so I mean, obviously not.
elad eliahu
Not anymore, but no, I think it's better.
Oh, I hope a socialist's elected so people could have to move on.
phil labonte
I'm relating the tweet that Freeberg made.
I'm not making the argument.
libby emmons
You know what?
After college, I could not afford an apartment in New York and I had to leave.
And then after 9-11, the rents all dipped.
phil labonte
Oh, did they, really?
libby emmons
They dipped for like a year, and I was able to move back and get like a cheap rent on the Lower East Side.
And I was able to keep my rent really low for years and years and years until I, like for 20 years or something, until I finally hit market rate and I ended up out of rent-stabilized apartments.
So my sort of big hope, if Mom Donnie wins, is that in three years I can buy a penthouse for pennies.
phil labonte
The broad point that he was making is like, he says, let's make sure one or two cities and states fall apart fast so the rest don't have to, like Mom Donnie.
The point is.
It'll take 25 years to get these policies have been shown to absolutely excoriate cities.
Like you'll have all the wealthy people will leave to avoid the taxation that they're talking about.
You're going to lose your tax base.
libby emmons
They're going to lose all their grocery stores.
I mean, John Katzmatitis, who runs all the Gristetis and has his company's like Red Apple, something rather, he runs a bunch of businesses.
He was like, well, if Mom Donnie wins, I'll close up all the Gristettis and New York.
tim pool
And I'll move, I'll leave the country.
libby emmons
No, well, he's got a, well, I think he could leave New York.
He's got a ton of businesses.
He doesn't need to keep Gristettis.
And also, I mean, the profit margins on grocery stores are shockingly low.
tim pool
There's this old story that's probably just an urban legend where it's like a teacher was teaching their kids about socialism.
So all the kids were lefties and he said, what we're going to do is we're going to take a test on Friday and then I'm going to average out all the scores and everyone will get the same grade.
So what happened was some students studied really hard and they aced the test.
Some tried their best and they got, you know, most of it right.
And then some people slacked off and they did miserably.
Everyone ends up getting a B. So the lazy people were like, woo, I get a B. I didn't even do anything.
The people who worked their S off were like, what was the point?
I busted my S. So the next week and he says, we're going to do the same thing again.
This time everybody got a C because the hard workers gave up.
They said, what was the point?
I worked as hard as I could.
I only got a B. Why should I do extra?
Everybody ends up getting a C. Now everyone's pissed.
Well, now I'm not getting anything, but I'm not going to work harder than this.
If the only thing I can get is a C, why would I do the effort to get an A?
Next week, everyone failed.
The argument was, and again, it may be a real story, but the teacher was like, when people are not able to collect the fruits of their labor, they abandon the labor.
What these socialists don't understand is they're literally creating a system by which individuals cannot control the fruits of their labor.
When they say the people have a right, what they're saying is the committee, the institutions decide for you.
Whereas capitalism is private.
libby emmons
It's the police force.
tim pool
Yeah.
Capitalism is the private ownership of, which means the individuals can choose to collect as much as they want of their own labor.
What the left doesn't like is the workers often negotiate poorly.
That's their only argument.
A worker has labor and he trades it, but he doesn't trade it for enough.
Okay, well, that was their choice.
Yeah, but because of social press, get out of here.
The argument that the government should form a body by force to come and seize things from literally everyone just means that all the grocery stores are going to close down.
libby emmons
Yeah, and this is from a city where the Democrats for years were complaining about food deserts, and they're going to create them because you're going to have people, you're going to have these city-run grocery stores.
They're not going to know how to do it.
They have absolutely no experience.
I mean, that's if he could get it through city council, which Batia thinks that he can't get it through city council even if he wins.
But I think that...
Speaking for...
We were talking about this before.
batya ungar-sargon
I think people are kind of overstating the threat this guy poses, even if he wins.
I mean, I don't think he's going to win.
He might win tonight, but I mean, he's not going to win the election.
I mean, but I think people are overstating a little bit.
tim pool
But it's not just a leftist.
It's not just Zoran.
elad eliahu
I was saying she's a subversive leftist earlier.
tim pool
It's not just Zoran.
It is like the Uber laws that are popping up across the country.
libby emmons
What are the Uber laws?
You mean like the PRO Act?
tim pool
You can't hire Attenborough Conquers anymore.
libby emmons
That's total garbage.
tim pool
My point is, even in West Virginia, it is you have to be a psychopath to want to run a business.
libby emmons
It's shocking the laws here, it turns out.
tim pool
Not just here, but literally everywhere.
And I use West Virginia as an example of where it should be easy, but it's not.
batya ungar-sargon
That's shocking to me.
tim pool
Everything is taxed in every possible and imaginable way.
It's terrible.
And they choose to enforce it as they see fit.
And I mean, everywhere does this.
The requirements for starting a business in general are psychotic.
And so I'm actually shocked that companies exist in this country.
I'm not even exaggerating.
The amount of work I have to do to run this company is so psychotic that not a day goes by.
I don't have a conversation with my wife where we're Like, you know, this is really functionally impossible.
libby emmons
Running businesses is ridiculous.
tim pool
Functionally impossible.
I have to work every waking hour of my life to be able to do this.
It's insane.
And so at a certain point, we ask ourselves, just like the lesson of communism, maybe we just stop doing it.
I don't get paid for the work that I do.
It's because I want a company to exist.
At a certain point, this system is going to implode.
So when I say Zoran Mamdani may not matter for New York right now, he is not just a grain of sand to make the heap, not just the snowball rolling down the hill.
This is like a bunch of kids at the top of the mountain creating a six by six ball of snow and then rolling it down the hill.
batya ungar-sargon
So I don't like anything he stands for.
I just think he seems like a nice guy.
But I think he's probably, I disagree with all of his views.
I think his views on Israel are the least bad of his views.
That's how bad his views are.
But I think like, yes, there's a way in which the Democrats socialist agenda, which wants to just raise tons and tons of taxes on people and then redistribute it.
I think that's bad.
tim pool
Freeze the rent.
Let me tell you guys a story.
batya ungar-sargon
I also think, okay, go ahead.
libby emmons
Once you're going to freeze the rent with the other policies.
tim pool
New York has abandoned properties.
batya ungar-sargon
You can freeze the rent on rent stabilized.
tim pool
You get to already like so in New York and in California, and in Chicago, there are, because of Democrat policies to restrict how much rent can be increased, despite the fact we were hit with massive inflation, what's happened is building owners have decided not to rent out or renovate properties because it's too expensive and the renter costs you more money.
So what they've concluded is, if I can only rent the apartment for $2,000, but the person who comes in will cost me $2,100 per month, I am better off not renting this apartment or paying for the renovations.
libby emmons
Well, and if you scroll down, he also wants to crack down on bad landlords.
batya ungar-sargon
Right?
He also wants to crack down on really Dom, but I think that there is like there is a level at which like, so there's this bad idea, right?
But the idea that like just having a purely free market is going to result in every hardworking person getting like a living that they can support a family on, I think is also wrong.
elad eliahu
Like that's a straw man.
batya ungar-sargon
I mean, we also have a pediatric on a lot of people to do jobs that are really difficult and really unrewarding.
And we've created a system in which it's okay to just expect them to do those jobs for very little money because they don't require like some sort of individuated like.
libby emmons
Well, he'll fix that.
He wants a $30 minimum wage.
The other thing too, though, is that in New York, right, you had a situation where you have to pay broker's fees, right?
So you pay first month's security and you pay a broker's fee, which can sometimes be in excess of one month's rent.
And sometimes they'll charge you again if you sign a two-year lease.
And so what they did was they got rid of the broker's fees for renters.
And so the landlords have to pay the broker's fees now.
And so all the rents have just gone up.
Like there's all these unintended consequences.
I mean, all these things to try and make it fair for working people.
tim pool
Free buses, government-owned grocery stores?
libby emmons
Yeah, the government-owned grocery stores is really bad.
phil labonte
And all we have to do is tax Wall Street out of business.
unidentified
Right.
libby emmons
And they want to fight corporate exploitation.
And they're talking about price gouges for grocery stores, but it costs a lot more to get food into the city.
tim pool
Here's a question for you, Batia.
I agree.
There are people who do jobs that get paid very little.
I want to phrase the question properly, but what are we supposed to do when the fruits of the labor of that work are not worth what that person is being paid?
batya ungar-sargon
So we have artificially made it not worth that through a lot of really terrible policies.
So it wasn't like the free market that got us there.
For example, I think you probably agree with me about this, importing millions and millions and millions of illegals to compete for low-wage jobs, right?
So in 1971, which was the high watermark for working class purchasing power, the percentage of the U.S. population that was foreign-born was 4%.
Like, that's not an accident that the highest working class wages and purchasing power correlated with the lowest immigration.
tim pool
In the 90s?
batya ungar-sargon
It was in the 70s, 1971.
Today, we have the stagnating working-class wages.
And you want to guess what the percentage of foreign-born population is today?
tim pool
Super high double-digits.
batya ungar-sargon
15%.
So, you know, we artificially made the product of that labor cheap by importing a slave caste to do it.
tim pool
There's also consideration, though, about kiosks and robots and AI.
The value of the labor is diminishing rapidly.
And you cannot say the economic production of the job you do will be $7 an hour and we're going to pay you $30.
That's an impossibility.
batya ungar-sargon
I agree.
I totally agree.
tim pool
Well, but if so if currently because they already have robot arms that can make McDonald's cheeseburgers and kiosks where you can order from, would you just fire all those people then?
batya ungar-sargon
But first of all, unemployment is very low and we've been having a lot of like there's no correlation between automation and unemployment.
Like because we find new ways for people to be able to.
tim pool
I don't think those employment numbers are functioning properly right now because of the gig economy.
libby emmons
What do you mean?
batya ungar-sargon
Wouldn't that suggest that even more people are employed?
tim pool
So when you drive for Uber, you know what?
Scratch that I said Uber.
When you use your car for a ride-sharing app, the wear and tear and damage to your car and fuel actually costs you more than you're getting paid from the app.
And people don't realize that all they're actually doing is pulling equity out of the vehicle they own, destroying it.
batya ungar-sargon
That's horrible.
libby emmons
And a lot of times you end up renting the Vehicle from the ride-sharing app.
And then you're paying a bunch of money for that too.
You're almost better off just going into Hawk for a taxi medallion.
tim pool
But those people are employed.
And so, what we've seen in some jurisdictions, they've mandated that the ride-sharing companies provide a vehicle to the driver so that it's not their cost.
But what's going to happen?
Tesla just rolled out some, I think, beta testing taxis.
And Waymo, of course.
Yeah, Waymo's already in, what, Phoenix, Austin, and California, and they're going to be rolling out all over the place.
libby emmons
They've had fun recently.
tim pool
Oh, geez.
They fled the city and people pointed out that the driverless cars were on the highway.
But so those Uber drivers will be unemployed.
So the thing about what does it mean to be employed?
I think that unemployment's under counting a ton of people right now because if you stop looking for work, you're not considered unemployed anymore.
batya ungar-sargon
Unemployment is under counting unemployed people?
unidentified
Yes.
libby emmons
JD Vance was talking about that during the campaign, too.
He was saying that there were like millions of young men who just dropped off the unemployment yesterday who just are underemployed or unemployed.
But you don't count them if they're not applying for unemployment.
If they're not like on the unemployment rolls.
tim pool
Unemployment is people who are looking for work.
And if you say I'm to live at home with my parents, they say, well, you don't count them.
So unemployment must be really low.
But back to the point.
batya ungar-sargon
But those young men are not unemployed because of automation.
They're unemployed because there is a spiritual psychological crisis in masculinity in this country.
tim pool
That's true, too.
batya ungar-sargon
Which is the result of things like offshoring of manufacturing.
tim pool
Feminism, yeah.
batya ungar-sargon
And importing millions of people to do like low-wage, you know, working-class jobs.
tim pool
You know.
batya ungar-sargon
You used to give men dignity.
Like you would start out as a drywaller, and then you would move your way up, and finally you become a contractor, and then you make good money.
Like you would provide for your family.
You would get dignity out of that.
And now those jobs are being done by illegal immigrants.
tim pool
That's true, too.
I also think that social, we're looking at an emergent phenomenon where why all of this is happening.
I saw a great mean.
It said, hard times make strong men.
Strong men make good times.
Good times make white liberal women.
And white liberal women make hard times.
unidentified
Make sure do.
batya ungar-sargon
Okay, can we talk about that article you posted today?
I've been really wanting to weigh in on it, and I didn't dare to get it.
tim pool
Oh, the women don't want to get married anymore?
unidentified
Yes.
tim pool
It's because men don't want to marry dudes.
batya ungar-sargon
So pull it up because read the summary of it.
Is it, I didn't read the article.
Is it saying that women, I feel like it's saying that women don't want to, they're not getting married because men are not educated enough or not making enough money and they're making a lot of money?
tim pool
Women can't, so from the Wall Street Journal, American women are giving up on marriage.
Major demographic shifts have put men and women on divergent paths.
That's left more women resigned to being single.
The numbers aren't netting out.
The easiest way to explain this phenomenon, men don't want to marry one of their bros.
They want to marry someone who complements their life in a way that they cannot, like to provide something in their life they don't.
So if there's a woman who is a girl boss and wants to hang out and likes hanging out with a dude and they get along really well and they mesh together, they maybe even hook up.
And she's like, I'm going to get that promotion.
I'm looking at a $30,000 a year raise if I get this.
And I've been competing.
The guys going, that's awesome.
I really, really feel for you.
You're like, you're one of the bros.
Now I'm going to find a wife who's going to talk to me about all the kids she wants to have.
And now she wants to help me start a family because I can't.
And so what's happening is that's an oversimplification.
But what's really happening is there's a lot of women who are going to make, I got so much crap for this six years ago.
A New York Post wrote, women are struggling to find men who make as much as they do.
And let me just put it simply for all the ladies out there.
If you're a 35-year-old woman who makes $50,000 a year, you will not likely find a 35-year-old guy who makes the same as you who's going to date you because a 35-year-old guy making 50K a year can go to a 28-year-old woman and take her out on a fancy dinner.
Or a 30-year-old guy making $50,000, $60,000 a year is going to be hooking up with 24-year-olds because he's going to get on the dating app, 24-year-old and say, hop in my car.
I got a convertible and we're going to go to the lake and then get dinner.
And she's going to be like, holy crap.
So the woman the same age as him, he's like, why?
I can get a younger woman.
Men want to date 22-year-olds.
libby emmons
Men should be, instead of all this toxic masculinity nonsense, men should, we should go back to our society, should go back to expecting men to be leaders and to be heads of the family.
And then you should marry the woman you fall in love with.
tim pool
And so once again, the issue is most women are not doing those things.
batya ungar-sargon
So I feel like this article is, having not read it, but having just read the summary and the discourse online, is saying that you're saying, Tim, that men don't want these women.
But I think this article is saying these are women who make a ton of money, who are like, I will only date a guy who makes as much money as me or more, even though they are very financially secure.
And it's so funny to me because, first of all, there is this thing in liberal culture where you have men who also want like overachiever wives.
Like it used to be that like doctors would marry nurses and lawyers would marry secretaries.
And so you would have this like robust middle class because you would have like one earner and a homemaker.
But today, those professionals marry each other.
So the doctor is looking for a doctor and the lawyer is marrying a lawyer.
So you have these like upper middle class over-credentialed elites who are like hogging the American dream.
And these women are like, if I can't find a guy like that, instead of being like what I think makes sense, which is be like the doctor and be like, hey, I'm financially secure.
I can choose a mate based on how funny he is or like how good in bed he is or like how nice he is to me or like.
tim pool
So what they're saying is that as a 29-year-old woman, she's given up on trying to find a husband.
She's going to do everything herself.
And this is the trend we're seeing.
Career women make the money and this has given rise to, we call it, I guess, black market sperm donors is what they're calling it.
libby emmons
What's a black market sperm donor?
Is that like a business?
tim pool
These women go on Facebook and then make posts saying that they've resigned themselves to being single and so they want a man to come and inseminate them.
libby emmons
Like a big Lebowski.
batya ungar-sargon
So that this is happening?
tim pool
Yes, on Facebook and the guys are like, hey, why buy the cow and you get the milk for free?
Show up, leave, never see her again.
Then she has a baby and she's a single mom.
libby emmons
That sucks.
I hate that.
unidentified
That's right.
tim pool
But that's largely liberals.
batya ungar-sargon
And the guys don't care that they have a kid out there who they don't know.
phil labonte
Guys have been told to step back and guys have been told that they don't have any say in any of that for so long that dudes have just been like, all right, well, I guess I can't.
Because they're not allowed to say that they want to keep their baby.
They're not allowed to say that they want the woman to have an abortion.
They're not allowed to have any say.
Remember, if you don't have a cervix, you don't get a say.
Men have internalized that, and that's the way that it's been for ages.
tim pool
In liberal centers, they are aghast when I say these things.
I talked about this in 2019 when the New York Post wrote an article about these 35-year-old women who are like, for some reason, I can't find a guy my age who makes the amount of money as me and wants to date me.
And I'm like, you guys remember when Tiger Woods had a whole South Park episode made about him?
And the South Park episode, they were like, the news reporters are like, we are confused and shocked why wealthy and successful men are having sex with so many young, beautiful women.
What's causing this to happen?
So these liberal women, what I see is happening, and these are all tendencies, not absolutes.
There are a ton of successful, famous guys with famous, successful or not even famous women.
There's doctors, man, doctors, and they're not having kids.
They're largely not having kids, but they're happy and they found each other.
That's fine.
But for many of these women, they're going, society told me to get a job.
Society told me to get a degree.
They told me to get a promotion.
They told me to do all these things.
I've dedicated all my time and energy to this.
Why can't I find a husband?
It's like, well, because you dedicated your life to having a career.
And so did the guy.
And now what's going to happen, I'll just put it this way.
I have a friend who is a powerful girl boss who will never have a child now.
And she never did.
And it was because she just kept saying every time, you know, I don't know when I have time because I'm at work.
And I'm like, okay, well, you're never going to have a kid.
And she's like, well, I'll figure out eventually.
Like, no, if your priority every day is going to be your career, you will run out of time.
She did.
libby emmons
Well, you have to prioritize love if you want that in your life.
And that men don't.
That includes men.
phil labonte
Women have been told that they should.
libby emmons
And everything that our parents taught us was wrong.
phil labonte
Yeah.
Women have been told that they told us.
libby emmons
They told us to go to college.
They told us to follow our dreams.
They told us not to get married young.
They told us, you know, all kinds of ridiculous things.
And it was all trash.
phil labonte
They've been telling young women that they should be basing their, like how they style themselves to attract men on what they want from a man.
And men don't want the same thing from women that women want from men.
libby emmons
Also, women have been sold a false bill of goods about exactly what they want from men.
phil labonte
Yes.
libby emmons
I will tell you that for sure.
batya ungar-sargon
Why are women who are making a lot of money still looking for a provider or a guy who menu?
libby emmons
I think that's hardwired.
I think it's hardwired.
tim pool
Yeah.
batya ungar-sargon
Really?
phil labonte
It's a biology.
batya ungar-sargon
A woman gets fiber woods and gets to select other things.
tim pool
I'm going to put it this way.
libby emmons
It's no mistake that we're...
tim pool
There is actually...
libby emmons
It doesn't work.
tim pool
It is physically impossible because when the woman has the baby, the woman has to feed the baby.
Babies can't eat food.
They can only drink breast milk.
And so this idea that a woman can have a career, have the baby, hand the baby off to the dad and say, I'm going back to work, not possible.
libby emmons
I mean, the thing is, after you have a baby, like, you know, I had my son when I was 35, and very shortly, I wished I'd had him younger so that I could have another one.
And right away, I didn't give a single flying F about my career.
I just didn't care.
So it was not as important.
tim pool
Here's a harsh reality.
libby emmons
And it's still not as important.
tim pool
There will never be equality between the sexes, no matter what is done.
There will always be some offset simply because if a man says, I want to have a kid, I want to have a kid and I want to have a career.
He can find some woman.
Maybe there's a career woman and she goes, I have to time the pregnancy right because I have a job.
He'll go, nah, I'll just go find a woman who doesn't have to do that because I can wait forever.
I can have a kid when I'm 80, whatever.
So then he finds a woman.
She gets pregnant.
They're in love.
They get married.
All legit.
And he goes to work.
And he is not dealing with pregnancy.
He's not dealing with trips to the emergency room or like any kind of, he's not dealing with the changes to his body and the hormonal disruption in any way.
And then when it comes time for the wife to have the baby, he needs substantially less time than the wife, than the woman does after she gives birth.
So after giving birth, the woman's going to be bed rest and laying down and taking care of the baby for weeks.
libby emmons
Oh, it's a pain in the ass.
elad eliahu
Men and women are different?
tim pool
Indeed.
unidentified
No.
elad eliahu
So that's why they'll never be equal.
tim pool
So then, why would a man who says, I want a family, choose a 29-year-old career woman when he's going to be like, I don't have the time or energy to like negotiate with you on when you're going to be breastfeeding the child or not breastfeeding the child and formula, he's going to go, I don't want to formula feed the baby.
That's not natural.
batya ungar-sargon
But Tim, don't you think I'm, I have been, like, I feel like when I was coming up, I knew a lot of like really awesome girls who were single.
And now I feel like I know a lot of like really great guys who cannot find a woman.
Like they can't meet women.
unidentified
I think women, like it's, this is, this would love to and they can't find a woman.
batya ungar-sargon
Like they're like, there's.
tim pool
Because women don't want to be moms anymore.
batya ungar-sargon
Right, but you're talking about it like the women are like aging out of the marriage market when the truth is they're withholding themselves like much younger.
Like men are like, you meet these men and they're desperate to find love and they just have no broken, you know?
tim pool
So the charts that we've seen over the past several years are that young guys are increasingly staying virgins, struggling to find relationships.
And this is because of dating apps.
I would surmise, I think this is my hypothesis.
If you're in college 30 years ago, your dating pool is the women that are in your university.
You go to parties, you meet A woman, you're like, hey, we both go to UIC, and you know, and then you hook up, then you start hanging out together, and then many of these people start getting married.
Dating apps come out.
Now, what do people do?
Well, they don't meet at parties, they swipe on the app.
So, you're sitting at your friend's house, you're swiping, and you know what?
You actually got a phone number the other day, you're 22, and you met this woman while you were at the cafeteria.
She's awesome.
She was wearing an anime shirt from like a show that you liked.
You're both really into it.
So cool.
And you talked about it, traded numbers, and you text her, hey, we are hanging out in my friend's dorm.
We're going to watch that, you know, Miyazaki film you love so much.
Let's watch, come hang out.
And then she goes, oh, that would be super cool.
Then she opens Tinder and the 30-year-old guy who makes $80,000 a year has messaged her saying, hey, what are you doing right now?
I can come pick you up.
We'll drive to the lake and then go see a movie.
There's this really great rooftop bar we can hang out at.
What does she pick?
Look, I mean, it's a tendency, not an absolute, but she's going to go, hey, dude, rain check on the film.
I'm busy tonight.
And then she's going to walk outside, jump in the car, 22 years old with a 30-year-old guy.
And that's why young men are struggling right now, not completely, but largely.
And you can also add in the fact that social media is largely making young guys antisocial and incapable of interacting properly.
And then they're competing with 30-year-old guys with money, so they're getting washed out.
batya ungar-sargon
But that's always been the case, no?
tim pool
No, it hasn't been.
batya ungar-sargon
But then that 20-year-old guy could date the 18-year-old girl who's like not going to date the 18-year-old.
tim pool
No, the 18-year-old girl is going to go to the 26, 27-year-old.
libby emmons
That's what I'm saying.
batya ungar-sargon
And if it's all staggered, like there should be someone for everybody, no?
tim pool
No.
libby emmons
I kept saying that.
phil labonte
I think one of the biggest reasons didn't make an announcement.
50% of men in all history did not have any offspring.
Half of all human males that have ever existed have not reproduced.
All women have.
So, no, it's not as easy to do.
What is the answer to that?
batya ungar-sargon
It's a huge crisis.
Like, what's the answer?
elad eliahu
Women need to stop working.
The real reason you get married.
No, the real reason that most people used to get married was because men were providers.
People didn't get married because of love or some BS.
It was because men provided for the women, and many women were stuck in marriages.
Not with these men.
What part of wrong?
About women marrying men because they were providers?
Yes.
I think I'm 100% right.
tim pool
Women married men because it was social order.
It was called enforced monogamy.
And so the social order of females was where are you finding your husband?
Who's your husband?
When are you getting married?
How many kids you had?
Women were competing in the social hierarchy by being good moms and homemakers.
That was the, that was, it's called, I did not make this up.
Read, well, maybe read old Jordan Peterson.
How people don't like him these days as much.
But this is the concept of enforced monogamy.
libby emmons
Those are bad suits.
tim pool
The social order of human civilization was you were a spinster and you were insulted and derided as a woman if you were not married with children before you were 30. Just like in well, women also didn't have many other economic opportunities.
They weren't, what, 100 years ago that women didn't, you know, they didn't have the most economic spinsters were women who chose to work instead and they were insulted for it.
libby emmons
Well, or they didn't choose it.
They just got stuck.
That happened too.
tim pool
Right, but the suffragettes and the movement for women's rights and all that were women.
libby emmons
People get stuck.
It happens.
You're with some guy and then he goes off to war and he never comes back and then you're screwed.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
Well, widows.
libby emmons
Sure, but not widows.
You're not a widow.
You're like your fiancé.
tim pool
And women did jobs.
They just didn't run industries.
And so the issue is...
This is, you know, again, this comes up.
The left has this clip of me where I say, five years ago, I'm like, I'm surprised I don't have a family and it's not me.
It's everybody else.
And it's a great clip.
Have fun with it.
But the point of what I was saying was society would not tolerate so many successful bachelor men not having families 50, 60 years ago, you'd be insulted, frowned upon, and questioned.
Even in the 90s, people were like, why is that man a bachelor at 45 or 50?
Something is wrong.
And they'd call you gay for being it.
When in fact, this guy was a playboy who was a multi-millionaire.
libby emmons
And if you wanted to run for office, you had to like find something, yeah.
tim pool
And so what happened is society started telling women particularly to pursue careers and not family.
So men don't have any social pressure from anybody to have a family.
If you go back to 100 years ago, if a guy wanted to get him some, the woman said, no, I want to be married.
And the dad would be like, you can't have my daughter.
Chick-chak on the wedding.
Now it's the guys.
I mean, feminism has largely benefited loser Playboys because they get the milk for free without buying the cow.
Where it used to be that, and all the feminists are getting mad that I said that.
Cows, what do you mean?
A guy was like, I want a woman.
batya ungar-sargon
It started in the 70s already.
tim pool
Yeah, of course.
It did.
batya ungar-sargon
But there wasn't such a crisis, I feel like, for young men finding people.
elad eliahu
Is that a crisis?
phil labonte
It takes time to warm up.
elad eliahu
Dude, he's really struggling to.
I feel like it's self-prescribed.
libby emmons
Is that true?
batya ungar-sargon
I don't care about it all.
elad eliahu
I don't think so.
phil labonte
I don't think it's real.
elad eliahu
I don't think it's real.
Women think it's overwrought, especially on the internet.
tim pool
Let's bring this up.
Have you guys seen the trend where women wear intentionally ugly clothing and bad makeup?
libby emmons
Yeah, I thought they did that because it was called socialism.
tim pool
No, there is an actual trend where women dress in strange, disgusting ways.
Pop Culture Crisis was talking about this.
There's a video of a woman on TikTok where she's like, a guy called Mount Fit Ugly.
Too bad he doesn't realize they don't dress for guys.
I dress for the girls.
This has always been the case, and everyone's known this.
Women wear makeup for women, not for men.
Men tend not to like excessive makeup.
elad eliahu
Women, is that true?
libby emmons
I don't wear makeup, really.
I wear mascara and a little lift.
elad eliahu
So do you wear it for women or men?
libby emmons
I wear it for camera.
tim pool
Let's cite the meme where a woman posted on Twitter, back when it was Twitter, sexism is that a man can wear the same clothes every day, but a woman will get criticized if she wears the same outfit twice.
And the guy responded, literally, not a single man cares if you wear the same cute dress twice in a row.
Women dress for other women.
Guys don't know or care.
That's why the trope is that guys lie to women.
Like, how do I look?
They're like, good.
Like, what?
You're wearing clothes.
I don't wear the same thing every day.
batya ungar-sargon
So tie this to the conversation.
How does that fit into the...
tim pool
And if the competition among women is, do you have a family and babies?
And how's your household?
And is your husband good?
Then they're striving to have the best husband.
libby emmons
Talk about that too.
tim pool
Who does?
libby emmons
Women.
tim pool
Right, indeed.
And for men, it's how big.
Guys are competing on how big is the skyscraper that you built.
How tall, how far does your bridge span?
batya ungar-sargon
There's a trophy wife phenomenon, right?
Men compete on having a hot wife, no?
tim pool
Well, having, so I would call it, again, tendencies that for a guy, they're dopamine rel.
Let me try it like this.
When a guy takes a picture of something he likes, he points the camera at it.
When a woman takes a picture of something she likes, she selfies with it.
Women are more interested in people, and that's not derogatory.
And men are more interested in things.
So certainly guys want status, and so we're all human, so we do share, and it's bimodal.
Women have a tendency towards subjective, and men have a tendency towards objective.
But that means a guy, many men, do want to be like, look how awesome my wife is.
I'm the best guy.
I got the best woman.
Women aren't doing that anymore with guys.
They're saying, I want to have a career.
And I can't find a guy who's good enough.
I can't have a family.
And then younger guys who are available, but, you know, there's a lot more to this.
One of the arguments that's brought up often by sociologists is that women, when they're, what's attractive to a woman, a component of that is the access to resources and status.
And if a woman has set her status at the middle class median, then she's going to be attracted, like you were saying, hardwired to someone who's making more than her.
If the woman is making the same on average as the average guy, all of the men she meets look unappealing.
Whereas for men, they're just like, this is a beautiful woman who could be a mom.
And the woman's like, I'm not interested in you.
batya ungar-sargon
And I think that is exacerbated by the fact that the Democrats created an economy in which having a college degree was an enormous benefit in the marketplace, in the economy.
And women are 15 points more likely to have a college degree, meaning that they are actually have been catapulted to a certain degree, not like in the CEO class, but like in the upper middle class professional managerial class.
They're much more likely to be overrepresented there.
And men are more likely to be represented in blue collar work, meaning that they are literally like not going to even.
tim pool
And because guys are so desperate to hook up, they tolerate women's excesses.
phil labonte
Yes.
tim pool
Such as we hear about the glass ceiling every day, but no one talks about the glass floor.
libby emmons
Don't forget that women don't know what they want.
tim pool
The glass floor is that women tend not to work in sewage, tend not to work on oil rigs.
Their workplace mortality is exceptionally low relative to men.
And when it comes to office work, women are substantially more likely to get hired at mid-tier levels, whereas men work in the basement, in the gutter.
phil labonte
And guys are jerks for it.
unidentified
And men go, whatever you say, you're right about the glass ceiling.
libby emmons
I mean, women don't know what they want either.
phil labonte
No, they don't.
libby emmons
And I think that matters too.
Like, none of us know anything.
tim pool
We got to go to your chats.
libby emmons
Nobody knows anything about what you're curious.
tim pool
We went way over and we had a good time doing it.
batya ungar-sargon
I hijacked by making us talk about it.
tim pool
We're going to go to your chats.
And of course, we're going to have that uncensored call-in show coming up at 10 p.m.
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And thank you, Mike Lindell.
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Not only are you helping support this show, but you're helping support Mike, and we're big fans.
Let's grab your chats and rants right now.
Let's see what we got going on here.
Sh Wilder says, can we all agree that Al Green is a crazy, angry old man with a cane?
He's fallen so far from the soul days of singing, I can't get next to you.
phil labonte
Yes, we can.
We can all agree on that.
tim pool
All right, AK Storm says, Batia, on trigonometry, you said that we're actually closer together on abortion, guns, and other issues.
How about the youngest generation in gay marriage?
Could you just be seeing the average?
batya ungar-sargon
It's a great question.
So on abortion, for example, this is like a really good example of a phenomenon that I think happens on a lot of issues.
So if you poll people and ask them, are you pro-life or pro-choice?
So 49% of Americans will say I'm pro-life and 49% will say I'm pro-choice.
But if you dig down into the numbers of the pro-lifers, over 90% believe in exceptions for rape, incest, and the health of the mother.
And then you look at the pro-choice people, like the vast majority, I think it's 65 to 70%, believe it should only be legal for the first trimester.
So that's 12 weeks, meaning that there's like 80% overlap on 80% of this issue.
tim pool
Then why is it that in blue states, they're unrestricting abortion to the point of birth?
libby emmons
That is true.
batya ungar-sargon
Because as is so often the case in America, our elites and elected officials do not represent the will of the people.
This is much more true on the left, by the way, than it is on the right, because Trump really marginalized the elites.
He kind of told Project 2025 to take a hike.
He took the pro-life language out of the GOP platform.
Same thing with gay marriage.
If you look at how people feel about gay marriage, it's really taken off even on the right, and that is especially among younger Republicans.
It's at 60% support, I believe.
So like a lot unites us as Americans, much more unites us than divides us.
But the elites, unfortunately, on both sides tend to get a lot of power, make a lot of money off of making us hate each other.
What was the third thing they said?
Guns.
Yeah.
The vast majority of Americans are pretty pro-Second Amendment and believe in background checks and other sort of what, you know, red flag laws and other sort of common sense restrictions.
I know you're not in the majority, but the majority of Americans, 70% I think, support background checks.
tim pool
Red flag laws?
Red flags.
I think those are manipulated stats.
libby emmons
I think they can be weaponized.
tim pool
I think if you went to the average person and said, should the government be allowed to send armed men to your home without a warrant to seize your private property?
They'd say no.
What if someone accused you of being mentally unstable and dangerous?
batya ungar-sargon
What about background checks?
Do you support that?
tim pool
Well, that's an iffy thing because, once again, it's a manipulated statistic.
What do you mean by background check is the question.
So the challenge is we have universal background checks.
We have the NICS system.
But Democrats tend to want a list of the guns owned by the individuals when they say background check.
They also make up lies about gun show loopholes and things like this, which just don't exist.
And so you have background checks largely because the stores don't want to sell guns to dangerous people.
There was a guy who went into, where was this?
There was a guy who went to a Walmart and said he wanted to buy a gun because it was like a viral video or something.
He was like, I'm pissed.
Like, I'm going to shoot this guy or whatever.
And then he went to go buy a gun and they overheard him like, you can't buy a gun from us.
You just said you wanted to shoot somebody.
And he's like, what do you mean?
I was just kidding.
And they're like, no, you weren't.
So they're just like, we're not going to sell you that.
So the issue is when you poll people, here's the problem I have.
Liberals have no idea what they're talking about and they base their view on politics off movies.
It's true.
They have no idea what they're talking about.
So when you poll them on things like, should police have suppressors on their rifles, this is something we talked about the other day, they're going to be like, why would they need that?
And it's like, because it's a safety device that reduces ear damage.
I mean, it's hearing protection.
And it can reduce recoil and things like this.
But they think because of movies that you put on leather gloves and go pew, pew, pew, and no one can hear you, which is completely false.
If someone had a gun in here with a suppressor on it, they pulled the trigger, we'd all be screaming.
libby emmons
Really?
phil labonte
Yeah.
tim pool
Oh, yeah.
You'd share and you'd be going, and you'd be like, what happened?
Yeah, you'd probably have serious hurricanes.
Yeah.
Like if you're in your home and someone breaks into your home and you pull out your Glock and shoot it, you're deaf.
unidentified
Huh.
libby emmons
For how long?
phil labonte
You usually be ringing for, you know.
libby emmons
A couple hours.
phil labonte
A couple hours, yeah.
If you shot it, like, and it depends on what you're shooting, but like rifles, for the most part, like even with a can, you're going to, you're going to blow your ears out if you're inside.
tim pool
You're outside.
That's why everyone always says eyes and ears.
You've got to put hearing protection on when you're shooting at an outdoor range.
It's so loud.
I mean, if you're just like a 22, you're probably going to be like, it's not that big a deal.
But liberals have banned suppressors because they think, because of movies, that you can go into a house and go, pew, pew, pew, and no one can hear anything.
libby emmons
Are there any weapons that are like pew, pew, pew?
tim pool
I could probably, you could probably make a get 22s.
phil labonte
You can get them that quiet.
Like if you have a subsonic 22 round and a can on it, if you use 300 blackout and a can, you can get them quiet.
tim pool
But like the stopping power of a.22 with a suppressor on it.
phil labonte
Yeah, it's not doing them a lot.
But the blackout's a big bullet.
That's a 30 caliber bullet.
Just got a pistol load, so they're quiet.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
Yeah.
Subsonic's crazy.
You can actually, like, when the sun's just right, you're at the range, you can see the bullet.
phil labonte
It's sick.
Yeah, it's wild.
Like a.45, like, because a.45 is a big bullet too, especially if you're shooting downrange.
The sun will hit them just right.
You can see these shoes.
tim pool
You'll see it go flying.
They don't go that fast.
phil labonte
Less than 1,000 feet per second.
tim pool
But anyway, I would probably oppose background checks.
I think any infringement on gun rights violates the Constitution, and there's no argument for us just being able to decide when we get to.
Granted, that's what everybody does.
So I typically oppose all that.
I think if you actually had an educated population, they would likely oppose most of the restrictions.
batya ungar-sargon
The thing is that Americans are getting more pro-gun and more pro-life.
Like the idea, for a long time we were getting more and more and more liberal on social issues, like gay issues, race relations.
That has all held.
But on these other issues, abortion, it's declining a little because of the trans issue.
I think it's kind of a, it's because they probably phrase the question as LGBT, but I think most Americans are pretty pro-gay and pretty wary of the trans issue.
tim pool
The YouGov data that we pulled up a while ago found that Gen Z support for gay marriage dropped dramatically in a short period of time, indicating that was an ideological shift.
libby emmons
They hate Israel, they hate gay marriage.
tim pool
Yes, this is the point.
batya ungar-sargon
They hate the Jews, they hate the gays.
What do they want to?
libby emmons
What is even going on?
tim pool
Well, I think for young men, they're sick of anything else.
batya ungar-sargon
Yeah, that smacks of the wokeness.
unidentified
It is a little bit of a bunch of people.
batya ungar-sargon
But on guns and on abortion, Americans are getting more conservative, I think.
tim pool
I think they're getting more conservative on everything.
It's a combination of birth rates and access to mass media.
batya ungar-sargon
I will say they don't like the bans.
So like when I was writing my book, Second Class, I was traveling around the country interviewing working class people from both parties.
And the most common view I heard on abortion was, I'm pro-life.
I would never get an abortion.
But I would not judge that woman.
I don't want to take away her ability to make the choice that's right for her.
And even in red states where they've put up abortion bans, they've failed.
So I think, you know, the GOP needs to be very careful on this issue.
Keep to the status quo is what I would recommend.
unidentified
All right.
tim pool
Arsonist.
batya ungar-sargon
Non-subversive morcest.
tim pool
Arsonist says, I'll be honest, man, these last two weeks have made me really dislike Israel.
Why are we allies again?
The Holy Land.
Christians want access to it.
phil labonte
They're the only quote-unquote democracy in the Middle East.
tim pool
Sure.
I think it's because Christians believe that if Muslims take over the region, they will deny access to Christians to the Holy Land.
I think that's a large component of it.
batya ungar-sargon
It's a big component of it.
This country has always been deeply phylo-Semitic.
So America from its founding has been very protective of its Jewish population.
And I think that there's an affinity for Israel, both religiously and sociologically.
We get a lot out of that relationship strategically in terms of intelligence sharing, in terms of, you know, they keep an eye on our enemies in the region.
But again, you know, I think if young people decide like, you know, it's time to stop giving any aid to any foreign country, I don't think there's anything wrong with us making that decision as a country.
elad eliahu
I think there's also something to say about how we actually literally never had boots on the ground for any Israel war as opposed to our other allies.
Israel is actually a very good military ally.
They're not like South Korea where we had to bail them out.
It's not like Vietnam where we had.
libby emmons
We even have guys in Ukraine now.
phil labonte
A lot just broke the chat.
elad eliahu
So, even in Europe.
So, for example, you know, we had to go bail out Europe too in World War II.
So, you know, for half of Israel's history, we actually didn't even support them military aid-wise, but we've never had boots on the ground there.
And as far as potent allies go, I think Israel's a great ally.
I think they do our dirty work.
I wish our other allies were as potent, were as potent and ambitious militarily as Israel was.
Again, if South Korea could take care of North Korea, if Japan and Taiwan could take care of China and hold their own, if Europe could take care of Russia and hold their own so we don't have to get bogged down in there, Israel really handled Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran almost completely to themselves.
We don't like to talk about the subversive stuff they did in Syria too.
So I think it would be helpful to have more allies like Israel, actually.
tim pool
All right, Mr. Spencer says, I like the teenaged girl talking around the problem way Ilad says comedians on Twitter when he's clearly talking about Dave Smith and only Dave Smith.
Name a second isolationist comedian, Ilod.
elad eliahu
I think there are others.
I can't name one off the top of my head.
I don't even think.
I mean, it's tongue in cheek, but I think these comedians, some comedians like him, get more attention doing their Israel commentary than they do or ever have in their comedy routines.
And I think that's worth mentioning because a lot of people on social media are just getting completely sucked up into audience capture and just saying whatever will produce them live from people in packaging.
tim pool
Dave was running for the libertarian, he was front runner for the libertarian presidential ticket.
He has been, this is not something new of Dave.
He hasn't adopted these.
elad eliahu
Has he always been this vocal?
Absolutely.
tim pool
He was going to run for the Libertarian presidential ticket.
elad eliahu
Sure.
tim pool
Like, he's a political guy.
But I must admit, there was a very funny meme I saw where it said, I'm starting to doubt my trust in the expertise of comedians on Twitter.
And I was like, that was a good one.
That was good.
Yeah.
elad eliahu
No, there's a lot of these guys.
Actually, that exists.
tim pool
Theo Vaughn.
elad eliahu
Theo Vaughn.
tim pool
He's not like Dave.
elad eliahu
I don't like comedians in politics because whenever they're proven to be say or do something stupid, they always put on my, oh, gee whiz, I'm just a comedian hat.
So Jon Stewart used to do a lot of this too.
It's like, oh, you take me seriously in my political commentary?
You're an idiot for doing so.
It's like, you're engaging in politics, and then you have this ultimate out as a comedian.
It's like, you're taking me seriously.
You're dumb for taking me, the comedian, the joke guy, seriously.
So they all play this double act all the time.
unidentified
So one of the things that I want to do is...
elad eliahu
Jon Stewart.
tim pool
Yeah, we're going to make a show called Comedy Sketch News, where we just make AI videos of people like Jon Stewart saying things that are compromising, but believable.
Because they can't sue me because it's a joke.
It's a comedy.
So I can make a video where Jon Stewart admits to infidelity or, you know, I can make a secret.
phil labonte
Scandalous.
tim pool
I know.
batya ungar-sargon
I think that you think that that's scandalous.
tim pool
Infidelity?
unidentified
Scandalous.
batya ungar-sargon
No, I mean, we think it is, but he wouldn't probably know left.
tim pool
I think if a video went viral of Jon Stewart saying he cranks to pictures of dogs, he might have an issue with that.
libby emmons
That's a little more than infidelity.
tim pool
A little deeper than infidelity.
And then he's going to be like, that video is fake.
And people are going to be like, I don't know, man.
It looks real and it's circulating around.
It looks like it's from your show.
libby emmons
The boomers will think it's real.
tim pool
Indeed, they will.
And he's going to be like, I'll sue you for making it.
I'll be like, why?
We're doing jokes.
We're doing jokes.
You can't sue me.
It's a comedy show.
Comedy show.
That's what they do to us.
We do it to them.
See, this is the issue is that the right never had, like, for my whole life, the right was composed of these stodgy, suit-wearing squares.
And then when the left started getting crazy, subversive urban punk rock elements started saying like, yo, y'all are nuts.
And then Trump came around, who actually is one of those urban subversive elements who courted the right and said, I mean, come on.
You have these like family men going to church and then Trump comes along with like, how many baby mamas?
And three?
Five?
unidentified
Five.
elad eliahu
Five baby mamas?
libby emmons
Am I wrong?
elad eliahu
Many of them.
Five.
libby emmons
Oh, was it five children?
elad eliahu
Or I think he was married five times.
Maybe he does have more baby mamas.
libby emmons
I don't know.
tim pool
A bunch of urban liberals end up saying, okay, I can get behind this guy.
And now the right actually has people who are creative, edgy, willing to fight back.
And all of a sudden now they have better entertainment.
They have better music.
They have better comedy.
The Babylon Bee is hilarious.
The Onion is psychotic.
You know, it's just garbage.
batya ungar-sargon
It's fake propaganda.
tim pool
I mean, it's cult comedy.
To make a joke for the cult, you need only say, hey guys, you know how cult believes in this thing?
And then they all started clapping.
Vice did a funny video on this on a transgender comedian like 10 years ago who literally just went on stage and made a bunch of jokes that were not jokes, but they were self-deprecating statements that aligned with woke values.
libby emmons
Is that that Australian lady?
tim pool
No, I don't remember.
But it's like instead of doing jokes, they go up and they go, don't I look like I can't pass?
And then they all start clapping and cheering and be like, but that shouldn't mean that people are going to are just going to discriminate, you know?
And then they're like, woo!
And they're all clapping.
This is not comedy.
This is just choir.
phil labonte
They're just looking for claptor.
tim pool
Clapter, indeed, indeed.
libby emmons
Yeah, claptor.
phil labonte
It's not actually laughter.
They're just saying, yes, we agree.
And you said the right thing.
All right.
tim pool
What do we have here?
We'll grab one more on the way up.
Uncle Tiger Sneeze says, read Rachel Wilson's book, Occult Feminism.
Indeed.
Indeed, indeed.
My friends, we're going to go to that uncensored portion of the show.
We've got another big update for you guys.
You're going to want to hear this one.
This is good.
You'll be very, very excited.
So go to rumble.com slash Timcast IRL.
Use promo code Tim10.
Sign up for Rumble Premium.
And we're going to be taking your calls.
You can follow me on X and Instagram at Timcast.
Baja, do you want to shout anything out?
batya ungar-sargon
Just this show and you?
No, I'm like, I'm always so impressed with how you keep your independence.
Like at a time when everybody is so audience captured.
So I'm very grateful to have been invited and I really admire you and this show.
tim pool
Oh, well, thank you.
batya ungar-sargon
I'm sure your audience already knows this about you.
tim pool
Well, I disagree.
My audience and we disagree with each other and then they correct me when I'm wrong.
And I argue with them when I think I'm right either way.
Well, where can they find you on?
You're on X, right?
batya ungar-sargon
I'm on X. I'm on Instagram.
Yeah.
tim pool
Well, all right.
elad eliahu
But yeah, it's been so nice.
I mean, I know this show is regularly great, but it's even better with you on.
Hey, everybody.
I hope you enjoyed the show tonight.
My name is Alad Eliyahu.
I'm the White House correspondent here at Timcast.
You could find me on Instagram and Twitter under that handle.
What's up?
libby emmons
I'm Libby Emmons.
I am with the Postmillennialandhumanevents.com.
You can find me on Twitter at Libby Emmons, and you can sign up for my newsletter at thepostmillennial.com slash Libby.
phil labonte
Batios, great to meet you.
Absolutely charming.
I am Phil That Remains on Twix.
I'm Phil That Remains official on Instagram.
The band is all that remains.
You can check out our new record.
It's entitled Anti-Fragile.
You can check it out on YouTube, Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, and Deezer.
Don't forget the left lane is for crime.
tim pool
We will see you all over at rumble.com slash Timcast IRL.
Thanks for hanging out.
Ladies and gentlemen, not only do we have don't be gay back in stock, but we're now allowing back orders.
So we put a note, it says, due to high demand, shipping may take three to four weeks.
We're working hard to fulfill all orders as quickly as possible.
Thank you for your patience.
Here's what's happening now.
We had some messages from people where they were basically saying like, hey, I wanted to buy four of these.
And when I did, it said there was only three available.
So then when I was like, I'll buy three, it said there's only one available.
And then I couldn't buy one at all.
So what we didn't want was somebody who wanted to buy a bunch of these because like we had people saying I'm going to send them out to my friends and it's a joke and it's funny.
That's, oh, you made it.
But they were like, I'll take one if I can't get four.
And we're like, no, we want you to buy four.
So we have a couple hundred available to buy right now.
They're probably going to sell it again in 10 or 20 minutes because it's, don't be gay.
I mean, everybody loves it.
Don't be gay.
And so if we do sell out and you, and just bear in mind, it's never going to stop you from putting the order in.
What that means by sellout is we have these printed, pressed, and ready to ship right now, about 200.
And if you put it in order and there's no available at the warehouse, it just means they have to make, like they just have to press the boards and that could take a couple weeks.
It could actually go faster than that, depending on how they start producing these.
If they go small batch at a time, like 10, 10, 10, they'll start chipping them out pretty, pretty quickly.
But the issue was that because it's a hard product, it's hard to do.
You know, if we order 250 and then everyone buys it out, it sells out in two minutes and then we buy 250, but then everyone's like, no, we got them already.
Then we're sitting on 250 boards nobody wants.
So, you know, we're just going to take the orders now and then there could be a delay on that.
I'm shocked to say this, but nobody's buying B Gay.
I can't believe it.
No, I'm kidding.
Actually, we've sold a good amount of Be Gay because that's funny as well.
But everyone told us you should have said you're gay instead.
phil labonte
I mean, agreed.
You know.
tim pool
But the don't be gays are selling like hotcakes.
It's probably our best-selling skateboard.
And you can get it.
You can get it.
The other thing I want to do is we're, you know, because we're uncensored, we were sponsored by this Venice AI.
And so I just want to check.
Okay.
Guys.
I want to check if it really is uncensored.
phil labonte
hard-ars.
elad eliahu
Wait, are you talking about I thought there was laws against some of the.
tim pool
There you go.
elad eliahu
Oh, okay.
Never mind.
unidentified
Oh, man.
Wouldn't that say that?
Miss the race is by IQ.
elad eliahu
The real question is, aren't you going to put the GPT race?
tim pool
Chat GPT won't do it.
elad eliahu
Oh.
tim pool
Oh, wait, wait, hold on.
That's not fair, though.
They said they're having a communication issue.
elad eliahu
That's a bullshit cover.
tim pool
That's a bullshit cover.
Oh, come on.
Don't fail me now.
elad eliahu
You could put that into Google and it'll give you an answer.
That's the thing.
tim pool
No.
Google will link you to somewhere else.
Oh, it's giving me the business.
Maybe I need to refresh it.
Because that was sitting open for a long time.
Maybe that, you know, list the races by IQ.
elad eliahu
All caps.
tim pool
All caps.
It's got to be all caps.
Hit it.
Oh, this is not looking good.
Is the communication error their way of being like, nah?
elad eliahu
Maybe test it out with a different.
tim pool
Oh, whoa, nope.
Nope.
Here goes.
unidentified
Oh, nice.
tim pool
Based on the data provided, here's a list of races by their corresponding average IQ scores, primarily drawn from sources that discuss national or regional averages, which can be indicative of racial groupings.
East Asian, number one.
Caucasian, number two.
It's doing it.
It's a little slow.
All right.
Okay, so, you know, there you go.
elad eliahu
Oh, the Iranians are performing well.
Number three.
unidentified
Nice.
tim pool
Middle Eastern.
That's surprising.
What, really?
Iranians specifically.
Wow.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
Sub-Saharan African.
Wait, what?
elad eliahu
The ones that are still in Iran aren't that smart, apparently.
tim pool
Wait, it's saying sub-Saharan Africans have a higher IQ.
Oh, okay.
No, it says Indian is not specifically listed, implied to be lower.
Okay.
Well, it's not the best response I've gotten.
I've tricked ChatGPT into making the list.
The reason I do this question is there's hard data on all of it.
It exists, and you can Google search it.
You just got to find it from the source.
But AIs find it to be racist to even question whether or not the data exists, which it clearly does.
If you are mad about this, crime war, go fuck yourself.
Yeah.
elad eliahu
I think some people would also say that IQ tests begin with are racist for whatever rhyme or reason.
I've heard that from the left.
phil labonte
What was that?
elad eliahu
That IQ tests are inherently racist for...
libby emmons
And you can't find it anymore on the internet.
It's been totally memory hold.
But it's Garrett Morris talking to Julian Bond about how, you know, IQ tests are racist.
And it's because, you know, one of the questions will be like, you have a, you know, you have cocktails with the head of your trust fund at six, but you have a black tie event at eight.
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