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Nov. 17, 2023 - Timcast IRL - Tim Pool

02:03:41

Timcast IRL - BLM Activist CONVICTED For Role Inciting January 6th Riot At Capitol w/Dave Smith

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clint russell

12:46

dave smith

55:06

seamus coughlin

08:33

tim pool

42:42

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ian crossland

02:35

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serge du preez

00:16

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Speaker	Time	Text
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		BLM activist John Earl Sullivan has been convicted for his role in incitement on January 6.
		That is right.
		This is a BLM far-left activist.
		And the funny thing about it is, we all know, the media has in the past reported on his activities.
		We know that he was a frequent attendee and organizer for many leftist rallies.
		We know that on video he's cheering for what's happening at the Capitol.
		And now we've got the corporate press saying he's an anti-establishment activist.
		Right.
		Because now they're trying to deflect from the fact that he's a Black Lives Matter supporter and that was basically what it was all about.
		He even said in the, uh, there's video of him from the, from that day where he's saying, I don't, I'll be on anybody's side if they're going to tear it all down, yada yada yada.
		So that's going to be interesting, how we see liberals and the left respond to this, considering, well, for a long time, a lot of conservatives said there were antifa, there were leftists there.
		Now it's one guy, so we'll see.
		But we also got to talk about what's going on with TikTok, because this is a wild story that's been going off since yesterday.
		TikTok has been promoting videos where leftists say they read Osama bin Laden's letter to America, and that they believe he was correct.
		I don't think any of these people actually read the thing, because he's basically lamenting how US foreign policy is preventing Sharia law from taking hold on the planet, and how he wants all of the West to come to Islam.
		And I think if they actually read, maybe even like the first paragraph, where Osama Bin Laden says that you have to abandon fornication, homosexuality, gambling, and usury, they might be like, wait, I don't know if we agree with this guy, but sure enough, now we're getting news that TikTok is going to start banning all of these things.
		So it's a wild story.
		We'll definitely talk about that in a whole lot more.
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		Joining us tonight to talk about this and a whole lot more, we got Dave Smith!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		What's up?
		Good to be back.
		Who are you?
		I am a stand-up comedian, a podcaster, a soldier in the Ron Paul army, and a destroyer of loomers.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You had a debate with Laura Loomer the other day.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I did.
		It was a fun time.
		Thank you.
		Shout out to Zero Hedge for putting that thing on.
		It was a fun time, and Zero Hedge is a cool publication, so it was cool to do.
		It was like the first in a debate series that they're launching.
		Yeah, that's great.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's cool they're doing it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Plus we got Clint Russell hanging out.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Clint Russell, host of Liberty Lockdown, co-host of Tower Gang, co-host of The Best Political Show.
		Over on Rumble with Luke Rutkowski, if you can believe it.
		Can't be that good.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		It's pretty good!
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's the best, Seamus.
		I know Potato Man doesn't believe me, but it's true.
		Yeah, we just signed a deal with Rumble.
		We're very grateful for that, and you guys can actually check us out.
		We're gonna have Jackson Hinkle on this Sunday, 6 o'clock.
		Don't miss it.
		Just search WeAreChange, all one word, on Rumble.
		You'll love it.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, that Luke guy sounds foreign.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Not that I have issues, I actually like Polish people.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's why I'm so disappointed by him.
		I actually really love Polish food.
		Polish people are- they really are.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Not that I have issues- I actually like Polish people.
		It's- that's why I'm so disappointed by him.
		I actually really love Polish food.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Nah, like, Polish food...
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's- it's the best.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		A lot of what they do.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Poland's fantastic.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, Seamus is back again.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		I'm a cartoonist.
		Yes, my name is Seamus Coghlan.
		Also, I've been on Clint's show, and it is very, very good, actually.
		Enjoyed it very much.
		So I will concede that, but that was before the new co-host.
		I have a YouTube channel called Freedom Tunes.
		We create animated cartoons about politics and the culture war.
		We released a cartoon today that I'm super happy with.
		Everyone working on it, their talents shined through.
		I think it's one of the funniest videos we've made.
		And it's a parody of those Red Pill guys who will find a beautiful young couple on a date and be like, what are you bringing to the table?
		And it's a fun one.
		Yeah, Tim got to see it while it was in progress the other day.
		So if you guys want to check that out, go over to Freedom Tunes on YouTube, subscribe, hit the notification bell.
		I love y'all, I'm looking forward to a good show!
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Did they record the debate between you and Laura Loomer?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Zero Hedge put it out on their Twitter or X feed or whatever, and I think Laura Loomer put it out on her Rumble.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to be moderating the next Zero Hedge debate.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah!
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		So that'll be with, uh, I don't know if it's official who it is yet or what it's on, so I'm not going to mention it now, but it's going to be- Trump vs. Biden!
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be in the next couple weeks, and as soon as I get the green light that it's all confirmed and everything, I'll start telling everybody what's what, but keep an eye open.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Could you imagine Ian moderating a debate between those two?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Like, he would just ask them questions, they had no idea what was going on, they'd be like, I don't know what to answer.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		What's your graphing policy?
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Did you guys have a moderator?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we had Adam from Patrick Pat Davids.
		He was great too.
		Yeah, I love Adam.
		He's a great guy.
		And so yeah, he did he did a very good job.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we got that checking it out.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We got Serge pressing the buttons.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm here.
		It's good to see you Dave and good to see you too as well Clint.
		And also to see you too Seamus.
		I didn't know you'd be here today.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		I know.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's great seeing you as well, man.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, cheers.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		Anyways, let's get into it, guys.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Here's a story from the post-millennial far-left BLM activist John Sullivan, convicted on all charges in the January 6th case.
		Sullivan said he was only at the Capitol to document the event.
		This is really interesting because he's a prominent BLM activist who was there.
		During court testimony, he said he was only there to document.
		I was only observing.
		I followed the crowd.
		I'm here to document.
		Sullivan's testimony was followed up by prosecutors who played multiple videos of Sullivan urging on the mob, which included a self-declaration to make Trump supporters f-ish up.
		I'm gonna side with anyone who is ready to rip this ish down, Sullivan said in one video.
		I brought my megaphone to instigate ish, he said in another video.
		NBC News reports that prosecutors portrayed Sullivan as an anti-establishment activist who had the goal to burn it all down.
		Now I have to wonder, Here's NBC News saying, anti-establishment activists sought to incite Trump supporters on January 6th, DOJ argues.
		But of course, I want to make sure we can bring up John Earl Sullivan's Wikipedia page.
		He's got one.
		Where they mention, he organized and participated in protests relating to Black Lives Matter.
		Though a few other BLM organizers explicitly disavowed him.
		I don't think that matters.
		That's what his ideology was.
		They say he entered the Capitol and accidentally broke a window.
		He repeatedly shouted encouragement to fellow writers, and they go on to outright outline the things that he does, and ultimately his claims of being a journalist.
		I believe CNN paid him, what did they pay him, 50 grand?
		Something like that, for his footage.
		Had him on TV.
		Here's what's fascinating.
		Here's why I think they're not calling him far left.
		For one, there's absolutely, NBC News, they're super biased.
		But we're talking about a federal charge here.
		I'm curious actually, I believe it is DC, right?
		Are you going to convict a Black Lives Matter supporter on January 6th by telling a jury that this guy was a Black Lives Matter supporter?
		And so the strategy of the prosecutors is, if we go to the jury and say he's BLM, they acquit him.
		And if they acquit him, then they gotta quit everybody.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, so he's just being- the charges are being brought against him, right?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		He hasn't been convicted.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Convicted on all counts.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he was convicted.
		Okay, my mistake.
		Okay, and then, do you have- does it say anything about, like, what obviously hasn't been sentenced yet, but what type of jail time he's looking at for this?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Uh, well, here's the interesting thing.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I mean- Because breaking a window is what that, uh, the Proud Boy or whatever got- that got him, like, 50- Fifteen, seventeen years or whatever it was.
		And the argument was that they were like, well, by breaking a window, this wasn't just, oh, you broke a government window.
		It was you created an opening for a mob that would then be trying to overthrow the government.
		So I'm just saying, what?
		Because for the record, whatever this guy's armed, well, whatever this guy was armed under the knife.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And they even point out that he drew the knife in on the house.
		Wait, wait.
		He drew his knife as riders were trying to breach the house floor.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, I didn't realize this guy was a hero.
unidentified		I'm just kidding.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'm just kidding.
unidentified		That's a joke, YouTube.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		It's a total joke, and I don't mean that literally, but, you know, get my point.
		Anyway, well, I'm just saying, what, like, I, because if they're going, first off, if they're going to throw the book at this guy in that way, I still would think that's insane, as I do with all the January 6th protesters.
		What's really interesting about this is the question of, which I don't know if it's clear, What is this guy, hey, I'm just so anti-establishment, I'mma burn it all down when there's Black Lives Matter rally guy, and I'mma burn it all down when there's J6 type guys, or is this what I think a lot of the right-wingers were more suspicious of initially after January 6th, that this is somebody who's trying to make the pro-Trump movement look bad
		By instigating all of them to do something that then could be spun as like, yeah, look how horrible the pro-Trump people are.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Could be both.
		Because if Black Lives Matter was disavowing this guy before the January 16th even went off, he might have been, it's a kill two birds with one stone situation where he's like, you know, I can F the government and I can get all these people thrown in jail and get them to commit crimes.
		And then I can, you know, do away with two.
		He just sounds like a radical that went too far.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you guys remember this, but prior to January of 2021, the left was not shy about openly embracing insurrectionist rhetoric.
		I remember during the BLM rides, there were left-wingers who were saying, all these right-wing hypocrites spent years saying they have the Second Amendment to rebel against tyranny and overthrow the U.S.
		government, and now that the government is just indiscriminately killing unarmed black people, which is of course a lie, but that's what they were saying, these right-wingers won't rise up against this state.
		And then as soon as January Sixth, 2021 happens.
		Oh my gosh, insurrection is the most serious problem in this country and we need to call these people traitors and throw them in prison.
		So it wouldn't surprise me that you actually might have a left-wing activist saying, yeah, I'll join with these right-wingers, try to overthrow the government or try to instigate right-wingers to overthrow the government.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I want to crank this thing all the way up to 11 right now, if I may, and just say civil war.
		Alright, everybody's been waiting.
		I haven't said it in a few months, so I feel like it's due.
		But no, let me explain.
		I don't literally mean to say Civil War, but I'd like for you guys to give me your thoughts on... The other day, we saw David DePapp testify.
		This is the guy who attacked Paul Pelosi.
		In his testimony, he claimed that he was a leftist who was radicalized by right-wing conspiracy theories watching YouTube.
		Of that he included me, Glenn Beck, James Lindsay.
		The Nationalist OSA made a good point that this is a narrative where they go to them and say, they go to these people who are being charged like the J6ers and say, blame Trump, blame the right and do this.
		I think there's a really simple reason why that's the case.
		You're in San Francisco.
		You are in the bluest of blue and the defense says to you, listen.
		You will not win because you attacked Paul Pelosi.
		However, the best sympathy you will get is if you claimed you were radicalized by the far right and that you, you, oh no, what have they done to me?
		It's the evil right that did it.
		Try and earn some sympathy in that way.
		The reason why they're arguing this guy in a federal case in D.C.
		is anti-establishment and not far left, once again, is for that exact same reason.
		Now, what happens is, You are getting through these high-profile cases in San Francisco, I'm seeing these people post saying, oh look, James Lindsay, Tim Pool, Glenn Beck, oh they radicalized this guy, it's a lie, it's nonsense.
		But it's creating that terrifying boogeyman, it's creating that bifurcation.
		If prosecutors in high-profile cases are going to keep playing this narrative of Donald Trump is radicalizing people to extremes, Anytime someone commits some kind of extreme act, even a BLM supporter, they're going to blame the far-right or the quote-unquote far-right.
		They're creating a narrative that young people who are entering the political space will believe we live in this world.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		So real quick, as an example, It's a really interesting point that you bring up.
		Can I just say, like, because I think that's such a good point and such an interesting thing to focus on, because, like, as a libertarian, one of the things that we talk about a lot is that, like, look, we don't think government should be in the business of kind of micromanaging culture and things like this.
		But you also recognize that you need other forces, like, you need kind of a virtuous culture in order for that to work.
		And I think one of the things I've been thinking this a lot like since all these uh, these insane indictments have been
		coming Down against donald trump when you look at like kind of the
		landscape of current day america You go, how could a guy like donald trump ever get a fair
		trial? I mean if you have a jury trial with donald trump Whoever the jury pool is it's like a 50 50 shot that they
		either think he is jesus or satan And how could, how could anyone who has either one of those opinions ever be an honest juror?
		And I think kind of the point you're making here is that like, look, in the reality today of a modern jury trial with the polarization of the country and this white hot culture war, you almost, yeah man, if you're on trial in San Francisco, It's almost like the only way to tailor your defense is to try to have it something that hugs a left-wing sympathy.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let me add to what you said.
		You said 50-50.
		Let's say 33-33.
unidentified		Sure, sure.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But no, no, no.
		Here's what I mean.
		33% are going to say Trump's Hitler, 33% are going to say Trump is good, and 33% are going to say, holy crap, I better side with the left, otherwise Antifa's going to show up to my house and beat me to death.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Fair enough.
		But it's an interesting point, right, because people who are charged in relationship to January 6th are because of activities they engage in on January 6th are tried in Washington, D.C.
		as if that's a jury of their peers.
		I'm sorry, if you came from Arkansas, D.C.
		leftists are- that's not a jury of your peers.
		That's people- The jury of your enemies.
		Exactly.
		People with a specific political bias who hate you and your way of life.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
		I mean, think about what you're saying here.
		Other Americans are your enemies!
		Oh boy.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Not other Americans, people in Washington D.C.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Let's be clear about this.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I get it, but the genuine sentiment is, if you are from... Look, I brought this up yesterday when we were talking about the DPAP thing.
		We had a legal issue against a major corporation.
		And my lawyer said, okay, well, if you sue in California or New York, you'll lose.
		The Democrat judge is already going to hate you, Tim Pool.
		And outside of that, they're going to be way more pro-corporate, and they're not going to care about your rights.
		You sue in West Virginia, you're going to win overnight.
unidentified		Why?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're in West Virginia, they like you, Tim Pool!
		And I'm like, is that really all that it is?
		Yes.
		Selecting the proper venue is like one of the most important things, especially today, if not the most important thing.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I have a bit of a different angle on this.
		I think that the real concern that I have is that you have these commentators that are being categorized, like my friend Tim here, along with James Lindsay and others, that they're trying to kind of lay out the groundwork for this stochastic terrorism argument where you're being, you know, pushed into radicalism by people who are just speaking freely and then you're now in some way, what's the word, exculcated?
		Basically your personal responsibility is removed because you've been inspired by this radical Tim Pool or Alex Jones or whatever and it just really, because of where we're at.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		That's a real thing.
		They've come at you before with that, what was the other, that Young Turks chick tried to like come at you about how Some shooter liked one of your videos or something like that?
		No, not Young Turks, I'm sorry, my mistake, it was George M. Cedars.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So that was the guy in Texas who on his Facebook had posted four screenshots of one episode and one specific portion of one episode and it actually showed he wasn't a subscriber.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Which is such a crazy thing because when you have a show like, look, like you have a show like with this size audience, but you've built up a very big platform here.
		The idea that any one person who one time liked one clip on this, you're now on the hook.
		It's literally, it's almost on the level of like, well, this mass shooter watched Friends.
		It's insane.
		I mean, I think obviously Ross and Rachel are the reason why he shot up there, but the other thing about it that's crazy is that Phoebe was the one that radicalized me.
		I'll tell you, she's the one.
		On that show, she was the one.
		But like, if you actually kind of live in this world of... Like, I do consider myself to be a radical, politically speaking.
		I'm pretty radically outside of what the current status quo is.
		But when you're in this world, it's kind of my good friend, Michael Malice, good friend of the show,
		he used to always say, and I really loved this, when he would go, I hope left-wingers understand
		that the NRA are the moderates on this issue.
		Because it really is like, if you're not in that world, I know they paint it as like, that's like the crazy extreme.
		The NRA is up there like, all we need to do is enforce existing gun laws.
		And you're like, wow, that's so extreme.
		And you're like, extreme?
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Like I'm- The Constitution is like, shall not infringe.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but the point is that if you're actually talking about a radical show, like a show,
		and I'm not even, not radical in the way I am, I'm radically like, non-violent and peaceful.
		If you were talking about a show that was going to amp you up to go like, murder people,
		this is not that show.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me ask you something.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		There's crazy people out there on the internet, and this is not that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Real quick question, do you think individual citizens have the right to keep and bear biological weapons?
unidentified		Bye.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		well We're getting a little out there with biological weapons.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'd say... Hands down, unequivocally, yes.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'd say, well, it depends on what the biological weapon is, how it's... I mean, uh... I... It depends on exactly what your definition of that is.
		Nuclear weapons.
		I draw my line at nukes.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I do.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Uh, no, I'm just kidding.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Uh, well, you... No, look, I think if you were to have... This is a serious question.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I will say unequivocally the Constitution guarantees our right to keep and bear arms.
		It doesn't define what arms are.
		Private citizens to this day own nuclear weapons through their corporations and back then owned warships.
		Nothing's changed.
		So right now to this day it's not even controversial to say except in these podcasts liberals get shocked that I would say this and I'm like do you think Raytheon is a government operation?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yes, no look so in that case you're absolutely right there could be an argument made that if you were if you were Possessing chemical weapons and were keeping them like in a in a very risky way that could hurt a lot of other people Then you should be maybe liable for the fact that you're putting other people people at risk. But in theory, in theory, I would tend to
unidentified		agree with you.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		This is the argument they make about proper gun storage and stuff like this. Like you can only
		have a gun if it's separate from the ammo and in your trunk and not in your, you know, not in the
		same compartment.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so then the question is where you do draw the line.
		But at the same point, if you had a gun that you left out, that the difference between like a nuke
		or chemical weapons and a gun is that a nuke, if you're just keeping it in a way where it could
		just detonate at any moment, is actually a threat to other people. Whereas a gun, someone actually has
		to pick it up and point the trigger and shoot at. Anyway, I'm all for no restrictions.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Brandishing a weapon.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		If you're like waving it around at people on wrongly.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		So you could you could think maybe there's a don't try to out anarchist me.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I will say, let me just I'll just say real quick, I do agree with the sentiment.
		Obviously, I don't want the government regulating any weaponry that I can own.
		However, I go the opposite direction where I say humanity ought to be working towards nuclear disarmament, broadly speaking, so I'm not interested in having civilians have them.
		I'm more interested in getting the federal government to have far less.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		The goal should be to disarm federal governments.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		That should be the goal.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think every person on the planet should have a nuke, perhaps a MIRV with, you know, a 12 warhead MIRV, and because a nuclear-armed individual, an individually nuclear-armed society is a very polite society.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm kidding, I am kidding.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Extraordinarily polite.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Extraordinarily.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Or glowing.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Either way.
		Have you read John Lott's book, More Nukes, Less Crime?
		It's good.
		A lot of good stats in there.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, what were we talking about before I decided to ask about that?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		January 6th.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We were talking about the courts and how the courts have basically turned into, if you're in a conservative district, you know what?
		A leftist is going to get a fair trial.
		Not as fair as, like, it's hard to say fair-fair.
		A leftist in a conservative district is going to get a decent trial.
		A conservative in a leftist trial is going to get tarred, feathered, strung up for jaywalking or farting.
		Donald Trump could fart in public and they're going to get him on some nonsense and lock him up.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		The truth is that leftist dogma is so much a prerequisite for all of academia at this point.
		If you have to rely on any institution for your freedom, you're in a lot of trouble at this point.
		In academia, obviously, now in the judiciary as well.
		It's not getting any better, either, because they have had a hundred years of infiltration into these, you know, mind-creation institutions.
		So, yeah, we have an uphill battle.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think, like, the only caveat, and I agree with what you're saying, Tim, I think there is a point there that it's not equal, kind of, on both sides.
		But I guess part of the difference there, too, is that, look, there is, let's say, in right-wing or red America, I think there is a tremendous amount, and I would argue justifiably, but a tremendous amount of resentment towards, say, the political establishment, particularly the Democratic Party establishment.
		So the thing is, I don't know that in this moment of this hot culture war, I don't know that Hillary Clinton could get a fair trial in Rural Alabama, but the thing is that Hillary Clinton is
		never gonna face charges in rural Alabama, right?
		Like the federal government or different state governments or different like if there were some like
		Conservative financier who's financing, you know conservative prosecutors doesn't it's never
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Right, this just doesn't exist.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And Hillary Clinton isn't going to ever be put in that situation, whereas Donald Trump will be on trial in New York City, in Washington D.C.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And so that is a part of the asymmetry also, is that the entire ruling base of the establishment is on one side of this culture war.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		You know, people say like, oh, the red pill is that people who have information that will lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton die.
		Actually, the red pill is no amount of information will ever lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton.
		There is nothing you could show anybody that would ever result in a woman seeing a day in court.
		Yeah, that's just a giant cope.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a big cope that you think at the end of this, you know, whatever the QAnon crazy is.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, he's in charge the whole time!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Trump's still in power, and Jack Kennedy's coming back to arrest him.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Now, hold on.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Roseanne has a standing bet with Michael Malice, two of them.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		One is that there will not be an election, so we're looking forward to that, and that there will be military tribunals by the end of the year, which I don't know if you're talking about this year or what, but, you know, we'll see.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		She is right about everything.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, to be honest, she made a good point, though, because I asked her to clarify on this.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I said, are you saying we all just skip election day, the TV says no elections, or are you saying that something changes the election fundamentally to the point where it's a sham like North Korea's elections?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if that's the case, we didn't have an election in 2020. 2016!
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Or 2016!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'll say, and I say this disclaimer, I love Roseanne, I consider her like a comedy icon, and every time I've met her, I'm giddy in the room that I'm even in her presence, and she's just hilarious and so great.
		Perhaps a little bit more of a serious voice on this topic is Colonel Douglas McGregor, who also said he is, I don't know exactly what he said, but he basically said that he is very concerned that there will not be a democratic election in 2024.
		Now I'd like to hope he's wrong about that.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		He wasn't wrong about Russia winning.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Can we break down what does that mean?
		Does that mean, and this is the important question we had with Roseanne, Does that mean there's no polling stations?
		The TV just says you're not voting?
		Or does it mean it's going to be Donald Trump removed from the ballot and then 75 million people feel like they're not allowed to vote at all because of this?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		I mean, I have no idea.
		It's not my prediction.
		But I think what if I remember correctly, this was on Patrick David Show.
		He said this.
		Colonel Douglas MacGregor, that is, who's been right about a lot of stuff over the last 20 years.
		And I think he was basically saying that some type of emergency is going to be declared.
		And that that is going to, it's going to be used as an excuse to like postpone indefinitely the next election.
		Now again, I'm not claiming this is going to happen, but I will say that if that sounds crazy to you, just take a step back, look at the last three and a half years in America, and go look, a lot of things sound crazy.
		The idea of lockdowns would have sounded really crazy in 2019, and you know, that happened.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		If you talk to yourself from 2014, you're like, all right, so here's what's going to happen.
		Donald Trump's going to be elected president, and then the deep state's going to try to unseat Donald Trump when he's the president of the United States, because he's trying to dismantle the industrial military complex and get us out of all of these foreign wars.
		And then what's going to happen is there's going to be a virus that was created through research funded by the United States that'll be released, and everyone's going to be locked in their homes, and the economy's going to crash, and we're going to have rampant inflation, and then people are going to be debating whether the election was still—you'd be like, what are you talking about?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		But also the FBI and the CIA— We'll be working against Donald Trump the entire time.
		They'll be lying to him about troop counts in Syria.
		We'll have a bunch of different fronts for World War III.
		Yeah, this is all going to happen in the next five years.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let me pull this up.
		We have this from Zero Hedge.
		I don't think we'll ever get to the 2024 election, Colonel Douglas McGregor, retired, warns.
		And this is the gist of it.
		Uh, so let's see.
		I think, oh, I think that's it.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Does he usually make bombastic claims like this?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He's on the PBE podcast.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, this is not, he is not like, uh, he's not the type of guy to just say wild things to get a reaction.
		This is a serious guy.
		This is like a highly decorated colonel in the military.
		He was McMaster's boss at one point in the military, and then just like, he kind of turned against all of the wars.
		I believe he drew up the plans for battle with Russia if we were to ever go to war with Let me read this.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They first, in the Zero-Dodge article, break down who he is.
		is they say. Bet David laid out how he thinks 2024 will play out. He says,
		Newsom will go around defending Biden, selling Biden's record, have him constantly attack DeSantis.
		If Biden doesn't step down, have mainstream media attack him. Once Jill notices the NSA attacks,
		have a private meeting with Biden, sharing strategy to save face, multiple documentaries
		showing him as a modern FDR.
		Massive Simon & Schuster book deal.
		Defendant's legacy.
		Step 5.
		Choose one of the few options to step down.
		Due to health.
		Jill and I prayed about it.
		We've fixed everything.
		Trump broke.
		We're out.
		Step 6.
		In order to prevent Kamala from backstabbing, let her become the first female president for a split second, then step down.
		Divide his hands in Trump.
		Newsom becomes 47.
		Step 8.
		Iriada.
		In response to this, McGregor went dark.
		Beginning by noting that, first of all, I think it's brilliant, and I think that if we're living in a linear world, in other words, when one event follows the next logically, you're absolutely right, but I don't think we'll ever get to the 2024 election.
		I think things are going to implode in Washington before then.
		From there, it gets more ominous.
		I don't know that I disagree, and one of the reasons is, which we'll get into a little bit later, is TikTok pushing the Osama bin Laden letter to America, and having a bunch of Gen Z leftists claim that Osama was incorrect.
		Again, we'll talk about that in a moment, but I'm just saying the political divide in this country is so psychotic right now, to the point where Like we already mentioned, if you're being criminally charged in a liberal district, your best bet is to say Trump made you do it.
		No matter what it is!
		Shoplifting?
		I was watching this video about Donald Trump and he told me to do it!
		Please help!
unidentified		Help!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm a victim of the guy you hate!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Listen dude, I'll say still to this day, and you Tim, you've done some incredible things in your career, but if I had to pick still to this day what I'd say I think your greatest moment was, was still Jack Dorsey, Rogan, with the Rogan.
		Because it was just such an incredible thing.
		Everything lined up where, like, first, if you remember, Jack Dorsey went on Rogan, and they didn't have a very confrontational argument.
		And it's literally, to this day, the only Joe Rogan experience episode where I ever saw, like, Joe's audience really upset with him.
		And as great, and this is a credit to Joe, you know, full disclosure, he's a friend of mine, but a credit to him is he was like, okay, I hear you.
		Let's run that back with someone who's critical of them.
		But you had the point to them, and people could accuse you of being hyperbolic, people could accuse me of kind of the same thing, but you had that moment to them where you were like, and I don't remember your exact words, but you were like, you guys don't realize what you're playing with here.
		Like, you don't realize the game you're playing.
		And you're like, I'm getting a van and, like, gonna be bringing my- and, like, I'm, like, really concerned about, like, you provoking a civil war in this country.
		And, okay, it's not like we've had a civil war exactly since then, but look, we are- we know we're all flirting with it.
		This is a real thing that- When people make these kind of dire warnings, I understand it's easy to go, oh, that's kind of crazy.
		But look around at this country, man.
		We are flirting with a lot of very insane possibilities.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Time travel test.
		Go back to, what was it?
		Was it 2018 or 2019?
		When I was on with Jack Dorsey, Vijay and Rogan, it might have been 2019.
		It was 2018.
unidentified		2018.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		It was 19.
unidentified		Was it 19?
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Go back to that year and tell people If I went back, and everything I said was vague, predictive, like, this country is headed towards civil war, I'm getting in a van, I'm building a van with solar power, getting ready to bug the F out, and they're laughing, like, haha, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
		Now go back and say, since then, for the first time ever, a sitting president has been indicted in multiple jurisdictions.
		January 6th, just January 6th alone.
		I had Ryan Long came here on the show.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Love Ryan Long.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He's fantastic.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		I was just thinking about him yesterday.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		One of the first things he says when the show goes live is he goes, Tim, you told me there was going to be a civil war.
		What happened?
		I thought you were getting me all hyped up.
		I was really worried when I left.
		And then I said, a thousand Trump supporters stormed into the Capitol and disrupted the Electoral College vote count.
		And he went, oh.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, and even the riots of 2020.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the fact that we had the longest sustained riots causing billions of dollars of property destruction that same year.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So this is the important thing to understand is, you know, going back to something like that debate, what we're seeing with Twitter, we're seeing The hyper-polarization of Twitter, the rules they were creating, the narratives they were swinging, and the bifurcation in American culture, and that's the point I was making, like, you guys keep doing this.
		You are creating two distinct universes, and what I could see at the time and what I can see now is like a blur.
		It's like, if anybody wears glasses, you know exactly what I mean.
		Your glasses are off, and you see a strange shape in front of you, and you can't exactly define it, but you're like, there is a person walking towards me right now.
		You put your glasses on, you can see it clearly.
		If I had glasses, I could see the future.
		But I'm saying, what we're witnessing right now, as Phil Labonte says, what's the off-ramp?
		If we're now seeing, in these January 6th cases, Confess and say Donald Trump made you do it, or you're done.
		We're seeing Enrique Tarrio getting 20 years.
		He wasn't even there.
		But more importantly, since that point, we've had the Summer of Love rides, the worst rides in 50 years, 30 plus deaths.
		We've had a guy gunned down in the street in Portland.
		We've had multiple autonomous zones.
		I can't even begin to stress how we've normalized this.
		Go back then and say, what if I said to Jack Dorsey, Vijay Gowdy, very specifically, Within the next year or year and a half, there will be far-left extremists who occupy city centers with rifles and kill people who oppose them.
		They'd say, you're nuts that it happened.
		And now we're just like, oh, that happened.
		Are we not even shocked that it's going on?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		So exactly.
		And so the point that I'm trying to make here is that Okay, like imagine, I don't know what the analogy exactly would be, but so imagine you go, you know, you were in a business and you were talking to the other like stockholders and you go, I think this business is in real trouble.
		I think we're going to be out of business next year.
		And then next year, you're not out of business, but your stock is down 90%.
		And they went, see, you're wrong.
		We weren't out of business.
		Okay, fine.
		So I'm not saying, yeah, technically speaking, maybe you weren't out of, maybe it wasn't a civil war, maybe we weren't out of business, but still at least grant that there was like a lot accurate to this prediction.
		And that's my point about, by the way, just tying this back to the not being elections.
		Maybe that's not exactly right.
		Maybe Colonel Douglas McGregor is not word for word right about this, but there still might be, much like with your prediction, like some real insight into that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'll give you the potentiality.
		October 2024, a single state, Secretary of State decides Donald Trump is ineligible based on the 14th Amendment, as they've interpreted it, and so they remove his name from the ballots.
		Immediately!
		And we're three weeks out, or whatever, from the election, so early voting's happening.
		Immediately, you get the Trump team, all the conservatives, everyone filing emergency notices saying, we need an injunction on this immediately.
		And then the state says, okay, we'll see you in court.
		They go to court.
		By December, there's a ruling.
		Yeah, guys, you can't keep Trump off the ballot.
		Oh, the election's over.
		Trump wasn't on the ballot.
		We've already seen in Michigan and Minnesota, they've said no to this.
		But the issue would be Look, we saw this in Arizona, and so I'm not basing this off of nothing.
		In Arizona, the wrong ballots were printed on the wrong paper, so the machines didn't work.
		I guarantee you.
		I shouldn't say that because I can't actually guarantee you, but I would tell you this right now.
		I would bet a substantial amount of money that in 2024, we will see similar voting machine errors on par with a misprint that results in jurisdictions failing.
		Listen, if we hear about 100 jurisdictions And it totals maybe a single percentage point that this happened.
		No one will accept it, no matter which side it ends up being.
		If it happens to Trump, if it happens to anybody else, I knew some, I don't think it's anybody else.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		The truth is that government is a faith-based system.
		And that's that's especially true for democracy.
		The whole thing is kind of reliant on this.
		It's all a religion in a way.
		Well, it's all like you believe in it.
		We believe in look, the government is a religion in in every sense of the word, right?
		It has its kind of like Sacraments, and its rituals, and its nobilities, and its sacred cows, it has its blasphemy, the things you're not allowed to say, right?
		It has all of this, and also, you know, much like religion, and I say this as someone who believes in God, so don't take this the wrong way, but it is, so picture this like the religion you don't believe in, not the religion you do believe in, okay?
		So if you're religious, every other religion, not your one.
		But also, it doesn't exist.
		Like, government itself doesn't exist.
		It's an idea that's in your head.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And that idea is almost gone.
unidentified		Well, right.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		But that's the point, is that if it's not in your head, then it's not real.
		You know, there isn't government.
		There's buildings, and there's men with guns, who will enforce the politicians' wills, and there's titles that we made up, you know, Senator, Governor, President.
		But none of that is objective reality.
		This is an idea that we all buy into.
		and it has a when you have something like three hundred and thirty million
		people in a nation and then however what is it uh... hundred and forty million
		voters or something like in that ballpark
		and they were all recording all of their votes one day yet now obviously it could
		be a much better system than we have here but it requires to some degree
		a leap of faith for people to just say i'd believe in this system
		And nobody has that in the United States.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Very few people have that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think it's fair to say that 2012 was the last election.
		I'm not saying 100% it is true.
		I'm saying it's fair to say in that 2016 was disputed by the left as fraudulent because Russia interfered.
		They even believe they flipped votes, etc, etc.
		2020, the Trump supporters said the same thing of the Democrats.
		I don't care who you think is right or wrong.
		You're allowed to think you're right.
		You're allowed to think other people are wrong.
		The point is, we have now had two elections where both sides have accused each other of very dramatic, serious treason.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and the point is that it's almost like if you believe it, then you're right.
		Because the point I'm making about saying it's like a religion, and again, I really, just to be clear, I'm not trying to knock the idea of religion.
		I'm saying like, some of the things that I think are the most beautiful ideas and institutions in the world, I think marriage is amongst the most beautiful institutions in the world.
		But in a marriage, if either the husband or the wife doesn't believe in it anymore, then they're right.
		There is no objective thing.
		It's like if you don't believe it, then you're right, then you're not in this anymore.
		It almost requires both of you to believe in this thing that it's real.
unidentified		It's a much bigger debate, but I do disagree.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		You can get into how you trap your wife in the basement after this.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'm just saying, I'm saying my wife is free to leave anytime she wants to and she doesn't want to leave.
unidentified		No, it's not about why she's Catholic though, right?
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		But you're not baptized, yeah.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a different situation, but my point is that you don't believe in the concept of sacramental marriage or that you're actually bound in a way where you can't leave.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'm not saying that you're not.
		I'm saying you can believe that you're bound in that way, and I do believe that.
		Yes, I believe that I've made a commitment to my wife that I said in front of our families and in front of God and that I will, till death do us part.
		Yes, I believe that.
		But if I stop believing that, it doesn't exist anymore.
		That's my point.
		It requires the belief in that, otherwise it's over.
		And so in a sense, even though it is completely ridiculous for the left half of America to say that Vladimir Putin overthrew the government in 2016 when he installed Trump, them believing that in itself changes the whole dynamics of politics.
unidentified		I agree.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And the same thing for Trump supporters who believe the election was stolen in 2020.
		Now I'm not saying it wasn't or it was.
		I'm just saying once you believe that, we're not playing the same game anymore.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		I agree with some of that.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		But you're putting on the lens of what you think is right and wrong.
		I'm saying forget what you think is right or wrong.
		I'm saying if your wife stops believing that she has to- She's going to act as if she's not married to you.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		I agree with that.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Then you're in a different game.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		You're in a different game now.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		It's a certainly different situation.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And so that's what we're dealing with in America today.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no.
		My point is simply to say that I agree with some of what you're saying, and I think ultimately we would just disagree on, like, the moral questions of how you're sort of formulating the analogy.
		The way I understand it is, I believe, obviously, in the trueness of my faith, I also believe there are such things as false religions.
		I think anytime you have a false idol, you have a false religion, and government has become an idol for many people.
		Especially people in government.
		They really do see themselves as the highest moral authority.
		Even Fauci saying something like, I am the science.
		I mean, that is a mockery of Christ.
		I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life.
		Fauci is saying he is truth itself, and they also say that science is the way and the life.
		They have this insane kind of scientist system of thought built up where anyone who calls themselves an expert
		is now entitled to tell you exactly how to live your life.
		They have the fullness of the truth.
		So I totally agree that there are parallels here with false religions.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Rothbard actually talked about this in Anatomy of the State, that once faith in the state declines, they would replace it with a technocracy or a scientism.
		It's exactly what we've seen.
		They're basically evolving naturally.
		But I want to go back to a point from a minute ago when you were talking about sitting down with Jack Dorsey on Rogan.
		The whole reason that, first off, you didn't know at the time, but thanks to Elon Musk's acquisition and the Twitter leaks, we now know that much of those policies in the terms of service modification as well as the moderation policy shifts were being dictated by a multitude of three-letter agencies.
		Now let's back up a little bit further.
		The whole reason that they felt genuinely righteous in modifying these things, even if you discount the FBI interference and everything else, was because they felt Genuinely, that Donald Trump had had the election stolen because of Russian interference.
		That was also the state that had planted those seeds.
		All fictitious.
		Hillary Clinton, the Steele dossier, all a lie.
		So you have this entire censorship apparatus that is being rolled out and you have useful idiots that are actually propagating it based off of deception that is all a CIA plan from the get-go.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Now, let's just add to what you said.
		They genuinely believe Trump stole the election.
		He's a Putin asset, so he must be stopped.
		But that narrative itself was created by them, and this is why I have long described Twitter as Jack Dorsey hooking his own sewer system into his own mouth.
		Dorsey created Twitter with a team, and everybody's sharing ideas.
		Crackpot Psychotic Refuse is splattered all over the place on Twitter and Jack Dorsey decides, I'm going to take that funnel and shove it down my throat and starts consuming it.
		He then adopts the ideology of chaos.
		Listen, this is the important thing.
		The TikTok story about Gen Z believing Bin Laden was correct because they read his letter proves my point.
		There's no way they actually read his letter.
		If they did, it's all anti-LGBT.
		They didn't actually read it.
		They're simply saying they agree with it because they're seeing other people say it.
		Jack Dorsey saw the same trends, decided to abide by them without knowing what he was talking about, and that's what the left is, and he built rules around it which helped propagate the very cult. All right, before we get into the Osama bin
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Laden letter, just one thing on that, like, and I don't completely disagree with you, but there
		is kind of like another element into this, which is that, look, if you look at the state of
		social media from pre-2016, it was just a different world.
		And I'm not saying that nobody ever got, like, banned or kicked off.
		There were very rare instances where people would go really, really far.
		Like, where people would actually be, like, advocating, like, you know, Nazism and stuff like that, where they would get banned.
		But it was very rare.
		I mean, I remember back in the days of the Wild Wild West, and I say that in the best possible sense of the term as a libertarian.
		Love the Wild Wild West.
unidentified		Me too.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		But that it was a...
		You could kind of say whatever you wanted to without any fear that like, oh, I better watch myself or I bet I'm good.
		And of course it was because all of the incentives lined up for social media companies to not want to kick people off.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Because it was real competition still.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, the whole thing is they want you to be on their site.
unidentified		Exactly.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		They don't want to kick you off of their site.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So let me give you the quick, finish your thoughts so I can.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, so my point is that The rise of Donald Trump, who really tweeted his way to the presidency, and tweeted his way to the presidency when the entire establishment said this guy is not allowed to win, and ended up winning, and used Twitter to drive the entire news cycle, through the entire election.
		Once he won, All of the powerful people in government and the media class, they couldn't simply accept that, oh, he had a message that resonated with the people, even though we told you there was no way this message would resonate with the people.
		And we couldn't accept that Hillary Clinton turns out to just be a horrifically corrupt, unlikable, awful human being.
		I'm just saying this actually happened.
		That they hauled all of the heads of the big tech companies in front of Congress, and explicitly in front of everybody, threatened them with violence.
		You know?
		They threatened them with, we will regulate your company.
		The reason Trump won is because of disinformation and Russian interference, and you better do something about that or else.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Many of them threatened nationalization.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		That was a factor in what happened.
unidentified		A major factor.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let me give you the quick rundown of what social media started as.
		Social media website.
		Post what you want to post.
		People did.
		Eventually, too many people are posting.
		Facebook says, their feeds are cluttered up.
		Reverse chronological isn't working.
		We need them to stay on the website.
		Algorithms were created.
		Algorithms will deliver to you content we think you like better.
		Many of them failed.
		The early algorithms of YouTube were, if it gets more clicks, show it more.
		What happened?
		Every thumbnail became women in bikinis.
		I'm dead serious.
		What ends up happening then is a bunch of companies start emerging.
		Huffington Post, one of the first.
		All of a sudden, they're getting massive traffic.
		Everyone's clicking their articles.
		They can read the news now, not through a newspaper, and comment on these stories.
		What ends up happening?
		Through the algorithms, Facebook says, share the links that get the most clicks.
		What happens then?
		What gets the most clicks?
		Police brutality videos.
		Things that make people angry get the most clicks.
		Overnight, in the early 2010s, we end up seeing, my favorite example is Mike.com.
		Do you guys know that started as a Ron Paul website?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you told me about it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Mike.com started as libertarian, pro-Ron Paul, and with a component of anti-police brutality, because libertarians were very into this.
		Eventually, however, Mike becomes social justice.
		Why?
		It was getting more clicks to go beyond police brutality.
		This whole machine's always been in play.
		So we can say pre-2016 it was a different story.
unidentified		No, no, no, no.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You were just, and you were walking into the building, you just didn't see the bowels deep beneath.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		So I don't deny that, and I think there is part of this that just was an organic force of, like, how can we get more clicks and more clicks and more clicks?
		But I am saying that, like, there was a government intervention And obviously we know from all of like the Twitter files and all of that stuff now that there was massive like government intervention that certainly put their thumb on this scale and said, and particularly, I'm not just saying about the clickbait stuff.
		I'm more talking about like the tech censorship stuff where they really did crack down on these companies and insist that you like censor dissenting voices.
		And oftentimes, let me just say, and oftentimes it was dissenting voices who were getting tons of clicks.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And what you need to understand is, The people working for the Intel agencies are not like, it's a 30-year-old guy in 2005 who's now a 40-year-old guy in 2015 who went, whoa, we better censor this.
		It is, in 2015, them hiring a new 30-year-old who's been indoctrinated for 10 years by the refuse machine.
		A 10-year-old, a kid born in 2000.
		Gets on the internet, gets on Facebook for the first time in 2010, and what does he see on Facebook?
		Literally nothing but police brutality videos.
		Police brutality was so ubiquitous on Facebook that there was a website dedicated to nothing but police brutality videos in the top 500 global websites, making millions of dollars.
		You're 10 years old, you get on Facebook, and it's all you see.
		For the next four or five years in your formative years, the only thing you see, guess what?
		They're BLM activists now.
		Now you have critical race theorists and Marxists.
		Now imagine this.
		Imagine you're already 10 years old in 2000, and you're just starting to get on the internet.
		By the time you're 15, you're being inundated with this stuff.
		10 years later, you're 25, you're now working in these intel agencies, you're out of college, you're interning.
		This is what we saw with Bud Light.
		I predicted this.
		I said, I'm willing to bet it's going to turn out.
		I was talking to Vivek about this.
		It's a young millennial marketing person who has just brought on and has risen in the ranks and is now trying to push their crackpot garbage into the machine.
		What did it turn out to be?
		Exactly that.
		A millennial woman who said, let's do wokeness and then burn the company to the ground.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Because we don't want these frat boy customers that buy, you know, millions of cans of our beer every year.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Why are we seeing 16-year-olds in San Francisco marching through the hallways chanting from the river to the sea?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Do you genuinely think these kids know anything about Israel-Palestine?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		No, they've been indoctrinated by their schools.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to it, baby!
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not just their schools.
		I can't make one point about that.
		After we jump to the next story.
		Well, I just want to say you mentioned they're brainwashed by their schools.
		That's certainly true in part.
		I had the privilege of speaking to Dr. George Barn on my podcast, and he's done research on what tends to form the beliefs of the youth in America.
		And what he found is that, like, without a close second, media is basically what shapes their opinions.
		When you look at schools, you look at parents, you look at churches.
		It's far, far above all of those things is media, what they're consuming on television, basically, or on Let me quote this story from the Daily Mail.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We got a lot of points to make.
		uh, points to make.
		TikTok will scrub videos of anti-Israel Gen Zers fawning over Bin Laden's vile 2002 letter to America
		because it clearly violates our rules on supporting any form of terrorism.
		I want to show you this image.
		In this image, can you switch over, Serge?
		It says, TikTokers are now justifying, this is from Libswith TikTok, the 9-11 attacks and praising Bin Laden because he was just the resistance.
		This man, in one of his videos, it says, 2011, me finding out we got him, and he's cheering.
		Then it switches to this.
		Reading his letter to America, knowing he was right.
		Full stop.
		The point?
		TikTok is doing what we have seen social media companies do quite a bit of.
		They are creating a trend, And these people have not actually read Bin Laden's letter, not even a single word of it, and I know for a fact, I think, any sane person can see that.
		What they're doing is instead, oh, this guy got a million views by saying that?
		Let me make the same video and get a million views.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		There's definitely a lot of that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it's a lot.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There's no way woke leftists read a letter saying ban homosexuality and then said he was right.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		So you're telling me that you don't believe in woke leftists' ability to contradict themselves?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm saying that some of these posts that are prominent come from Muslim activists who are saying, look, he was right.
		Do you see the video where it was Billboard Chris, and the Antifa guy goes up to two Muslim women and says he's trying to stop kids from being trans, and they're like, we agree.
		What happens then is, Because people are getting millions of views, these other young people are like, I want to get millions of views, and just make a fake video claiming they read the letter when they did not.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'm not denying that.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure there are people who are doing that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They can contradict themselves, but I will not.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		No, but I mean in the most blatant way.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And I get that.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		They can contradict themselves.
		No, I mean, I've seen it over and over again.
		Where the woke leftists can literally sit here and say, there's no such thing as gender.
		And also, I knew I was in the wrong gender from the moment I was born, because it's in my brain, and you're like, these are the complete contradictory ideas.
		Yes, I get it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We had Lance from the Serfs on the show, who said, you can get abortion whenever you want.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Then he said, but a woman can't do meth because it intentionally kills the baby.
unidentified		Right?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We've seen these things, and everybody loved that clip.
		But I do not believe you can take a statement, ban homosexuality, put it in front of any leftist, and say, would you agree with this?
		They would not agree with me.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well look, the issue here always is, and I've been struggling with this myself over the last, say, month or whatever, is that I think when there is a reasonable point to be made And then it's put into the hands of left-wingers to make that reasonable point.
		They will make it in the worst way possible.
		So I think that what's going on, obviously this has to do with the context of what's happening with Israel and Gaza right now, right?
		That's a part of the reason why this is going so bad.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		16-year-olds chanting from the river to the sea?
		is why they're saying Bin Laden was right.
		They don't know anything about what they're talking about.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I'm not defending left-wing 16-year-olds.
		They're gonna say a lot of stupid things.
		But this is the point.
		But I think what the point should be, so I'm with you completely, left-wing 16-year-olds are stupid.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		My point is, it is not just 16-year-olds.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We have 37-year-old millennials who are indoctrinated in the exact same way.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're also stupid.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They're also 16.
		No, sure, sure, but listen.
		These are people in the intelligence agencies.
		How old is Vindman?
		These are people who are at the CIA who are removing Donald Trump from the presidency because they believe this crackpot BS.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure that's true.
		I think the people in the intelligence agencies, even the ones who are removing or trying to remove Donald Trump, are much more on board with Israel than against Israel.
		But I would say this, look, I think the kernel of truth here and what a lot of these guys
		just are trying to get at but do a horrible job of getting at it is that, look, in bin
		Laden's letter to America, obviously he's an Islamist and he's saying all types of crazy
		things that a lot of us don't agree with.
		Well, Seamus maybe mostly.
		But the rest of us don't agree with that.
		But there are stated grievances in this letter.
		that you have to admit, okay, he probably has a legit grievance here, you understand
		why this would be fertile ground for recruitment, and why almost any people would probably resent
		this if this was happening to them.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		But let me read the first one.
		As for the first question, why are we fighting and opposing you?
		The answer is very simple.
		Number one, with a bullet, because you attacked us and continue to attack us.
		That's the first thing he says.
		So like... No, no, no, no, no.
unidentified		Full stop.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Full stop.
		I am... I'm sorry, dude.
		I reject this outright.
		You can't just read a sentence... I can read... I read the whole thing, Tim.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I know exactly what he says.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And so you need to understand what attack us means.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And he outlines very clearly in the entire second half, attacking us means stopping Sharia Islam from taking over the world.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, he also includes 1.5 million kids that starve in Iraq because of the sanction regime.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		You can't discount that either.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		My point is, it's like a guy saying, I am attacking you because you kicked my dog.
		And we're like, wow, you kicked his dog, why?
		And he goes, because I was trying to eat it.
		And you're like, well, wait, wait, hold on.
		So what's happening is you got a lot of these leftists and Glenn Greenwald did this too.
		Bin Laden was mad about US foreign policy.
		Bin Laden was mad about US foreign policy imposing a Western viewpoint and preventing Islam.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		It's all in his letter.
		Look, okay, again, there's no question, he's a radical Islamist, and that's all throughout the letter, you can see that there.
		But I think that the issue is that, so these left-wingers take it in this direction that's like, well, he was right!
		And you're like, no, of course that's not the conclusion.
		The conclusion is he was an insane madman who's obviously like an, he's obviously an evil figure, there's no getting around that.
		The point is that obviously within this Islamist rhetoric there are also these grievances of, and look, that you have attacked us, that you have bases in our holy land, that you prop up brutal dictators in our region, that you support the Israelis who have ethnically cleansed the Palestinians, and then of course the sanctions campaign against the Iraqis and all the kids who died.
		And let me read his wishes. His wishes are that they would be under sharia law and Muslim
		control. But it's still here's the thing, right? When it since from 9-11 and the years
		that these have slowed down a little bit, but for at least 15 years afterward, the FBI did all of
		these, you know, sting operations with a we're not really entrapment operations where they claim
		we foiled another terrorist plot. But then you find out that they created the whole thing.
		Every time they did it, every time they did it, go look at how they recruited the person.
		Listen, they never read them the Quran.
		They always said, how do you feel about US foreign policy in the Muslim world?
		The point shouldn't be that Osama bin Laden's a good guy.
		The point should be that this is why he was able to recruit people.
unidentified		Sure.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Who are willing to go blow themselves up and sacrifice themselves.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And let me point this out, when Glenn Greenwald, let me pull up Glenn Greenwald's tweet, says his three main grievances are U.S.
		sanctions on Iraq that killed the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, two, U.S.
		support for Israeli violence, and three, U.S.
		troops on sacred Saudi land, that is, this is what pisses me off, that is I'll tell you what that is.
		That's Black Lives Matter.
		That is Michael Brown.
		That is BLM saying, they shot and killed Michael Brown.
		That's why we're mad.
		That's why we're rioting.
		And then you go, well, hold on there a minute.
		Michael Brown robbed a liquor store and then attacked a cop.
		Okay?
		So if you're really saying you're mad that he was shot, what you're actually saying is your intention is to be able to freely and willfully rob and attack cops.
		And guess what?
		It's actually happening now.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying it's lying through omission?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		He's not including the full context of the letter?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		When we get people like Glenn Greenwald coming out and saying, well, look, Bin Laden said they were mad about US foreign policy.
		No, no, no, no, no.
		BLM comes out and says, police are attacking us, so we want to abolish the police.
		We're now three years past the summer of love, and what's happening?
		They just released two guys in New York who mercilessly beat a cop without bail.
		We had a woman who was just killed, and I think it was in Georgia, I'm not sure where it was, because the guy got released without bail.
		Everything they said, they said, these cops are killing us, so we need to stop this.
		They weren't actually mad cops were killing them, they were mad that cops were stopping criminals from doing extremist things.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so I just don't, I don't think the comparison is perfect.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I get your point on the BLM stuff, but okay, sure.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So you read the first line, you attack us.
		Want me to read you the first line of what he defines attack as?
		I want to read the whole thing.
		I'm not going to read the whole thing on the show because it's long, but he says, In the first section, under your supervision, consent, and orders, the governments of our countries, which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis.
		One, these governments prevent our people from establishing Islamic Sharia, using violence and lies to do so.
		Okay, two, they humiliate us.
		Three, so when you ask him what does it mean to be attacked on a daily basis, he is not saying, I can't believe that you're shooting at us.
		He's saying, we want Sharia.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		He goes on to say, the whole second half, number two, Tim, what he's clarifying there is that you're toppling the leadership that they want.
		They're asking for autonomy.
		I disagree with them.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I get it.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		But if they want autonomy, if they want sovereignty, then they can have it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So my point is this.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		These leftists, it all comes down to, Have not actually read the letter, do not actually understand what his goals were.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you that they didn't read it, but that doesn't change the fact that he has some legitimate grievances.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's say they're all wrong, right?
		And obviously any leftist who's going to say, realizing Osama Bin Laden was right about everything is like beyond stupid and just, it's insane.
		Obviously, forget any of that.
		If your conclusion from any of that is that therefore it's okay to slaughter innocent people, then F you!
		You're a horrible person!
		And you're a madman!
		But I think the point is what should like like not the leftist interpretation of this but say like the the Ron Paul interpretation of this which I think he was completely right about and the Pat Buchanan like I'm talking about the most right-wing and the most libertarian not left-wingers at all and the point that they would make is that it's like look there's a the Pat Buchanan quote that I love which I think nails it always right is he says Terrorism is the price of empire, and if you don't wish to pay the cost, you must abandon the empire.
		And I think what you're dealing with here is that, listen, these are a group of people who have a different way of life than us and a different belief system than us.
		And I'm not defending that way of life or that belief system, but when you go over there and you impose your own brutal dictators on them, you slaughter their innocent civilians, But I'm saying, that's what I think should be gained from this letter by Bin Laden.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And my issue is this.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Those parts are legitimate grievances.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And my issue is, no one disagrees.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, some do.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		My point is, here in this room, we get it.
unidentified		U.S.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		foreign policy has been a disaster.
		Afghanistan is the latest in a long line of disasters.
		I think it would be unfair to say every single thing ever done was a disaster, but boy did the U.S.
		lose a lot of wars in the past 70 years.
		Lose, lose, lose, lose, lose.
		But, for these leftists to do two things, one, claim Bin Laden was right, and actually be activists who are pro-Palestine who read it, well they're lying and they're manipulating, and they're trying to obfuscate what his actual goals were, and two, the other leftists who are claiming they read it and they thought he was right, they did not read it.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I don't disagree with that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		My point that bothers me is people who are arguing that, like Glenn Greenwald's tweet is irksome.
		That is not Bin Laden's grievance.
		They are single facts of things that he's using examples of, of how we stopped him from having Sharia, and let me read section 3.
		I read you section one, section three.
		You are a nation that permits the production, trading, and usage of intoxicants.
		You permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even though your nation is the largest consumer of them.
		He says, uh, where was it?
		You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom.
		If you need to sink down the abyss from level to level, et cetera, et cetera.
		He goes on to say, if I go into the earlier sections, you allow fornication, homosexuality, gambling, and usury.
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So when he's mad about US foreign policy, that's like... It's starting to sound like Kanye.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		When he's mad about US foreign policy, it's not for the reason the anti-war Americans are.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I don't agree with that, Tim.
		If you've read the whole thing, as I have, yes, you're right.
		He makes a whole bunch of points that I disagree with, but he also makes a ton of points that are totally legit.
		He says, you have aggressed upon my people for decades after decades.
		He talks about how Israel was foisted upon the Arab world and that they opposed the UN declaration that made it come to pass.
		I get it.
		Yes, he has a bunch of shit that I disagree with, but then he's got a murderous psychopath!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		He's also raising some grievances, you know?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		What he's saying, like, I compare this to BLM, okay?
		I don't think the U.S.
		should be going to foreign countries and doing these things, but the argument from the left is essentially Let us do horrifying things to people.
		Slave trade, child marriage, all these awful things.
		That's what he's saying.
unidentified		Right.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So how dare you stop us?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		So he's wrong.
		And he's a bad guy.
		I mean, that should be the conclusion of all this.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But my point comes down to leftists on TikTok claiming he was right when his message is he wants Sharia law.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so the leftists are wrong for claiming that, he's wrong for wanting Sharia law, but I just think, so let's, again, those people are wrong, but let's just talk about what's right for a minute.
		And I'll say this, this is a point that I tried to make in the debate I did last night with Laura Loomer for Zero Hedge, but she was basically just like condemning Islam the whole time, and talking about, and I was trying to just have this Moment of being like, well look, let's just try to be really fair here, okay?
		So let's try to think this through, and I'm not, obviously Bin Laden's a bad guy, but...
		Think about what we did after 9-11.
		How crazy we went as a country.
		Like, in terms of what we would support, what our government did, what the response to it was, that we look back at this now and we go, wait, so we got essentially missiled, bombed with two planes at the World Trade Center, and we We created the Department of Homeland Security, and the Patriot Act, and the TSA, and the war in Afghanistan, and the war in Iraq, which we almost all universally look back on and go, whoa, that was wrong.
		John McCain, in his memoir, wrote that the war in Iraq was a mistake.
		So almost everybody, like, acknowledges, like, we went a little bit crazy after 9-11 and did a whole bunch of bad things.
		A lot of innocent people died over that.
		Now try to imagine, and I want you to really try to imagine this, That 1,000 9-11's happened to us.
		And what that would look like, how crazy we would go, that's the reality in the Muslim world.
		Now, I'm not saying this justifies any of this, and if your takeaway of this is that Osama bin Laden is a good guy, you might be an idiot 16-year-old leftist.
unidentified		Yeah.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		But I'm just saying that before we sit here and condemn them for how awful, and I think this is the point that Glenn Greenwald is trying to get at here, is that it's like, look, what he's talking about in this letter is describing a thousand 9-11s.
		And if you actually do the numbers in terms of dead, it's probably more than that.
		But whatever, just imagining that.
		And so if we're going to sit here and our reaction to that is going to be like, but you're a radical Islamist and all of this is crazy that you want Sharia law.
		Okay, fine and fine.
		but seeing as what our reaction was just after one 9-11, I don't know that after, you know,
		after a thousand 9-11s, Seamus gets in control? What do you think he's going to do?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you based on his letter, based on the letter, what should these leftists do to
		remedy what they've done?
		And you know what the answer is?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Become straight.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Convert to Islam.
		Explicitly says, as a second question, what are we calling you to do?
		Calling you to Islam, the religion of unification of God.
		Bin Laden attacked us for two reasons.
		He says, because you opposed, you've obstructed the life that we want, the rules that we want.
		He says, specifically, your attacks on us include fornication, gambling, usury, etc.
		And what do we want you to do now?
		Join Islam.
unidentified		Okay, but hold on.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		We can ban fornication and usury, but not alcohol.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm saying.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we might meet in the middle there.
		But do you think, let me ask you this, Tim.
		Do you think And I mean this in real human terms, like trying to put yourself in the position of these people.
		Do you think Osama Bin Laden was able to recruit people to be willing to suicide bomb themselves to death because, like, do you think a pretty major factor of that was that maybe they had seen someone who they loved, you know what I mean, get killed?
		Well, what started the first jihad?
		The first jihad?
unidentified		Yeah.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, I kind of think if you have, I don't know, the first jihad, which is, what was it, went on for a thousand plus years and they went from the Middle East all throughout Europe on to Spain.
		I don't, I don't know, was that caused by a thousand 9-11s?
		Was it like, oh, I think the Crusades were only a small handful.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I think going that far back in history kind of obfuscates, like, I have to make this point because in the letter itself he says, 3,000 of your people die and all hell breaks loose.
		1.5 million of our people die and you won't even blink an eye.
		The point that he's making, setting aside all of the Islamist bullshit, all of the leftist argumentation, is that we don't treat them as if they're real people.
		We treat them as if they're lesser.
		And that's true.
		And until we're willing to accept that reality and actually look in the mirror, if I was born In Gaza, in 2006, I would be of fighting age today and I would have never had any sovereignty whatsoever.
		I'm ruled by Hamas.
		I'm ruled by the IDF.
		If I go too close to the border, I get shot.
		I would be a complete lunatic.
		Anytime you bring this up, people say, oh, you're trying to justify terrorism.
		You're trying to, you know, make it sound as if Hamas is the good guys.
		I'm not doing that.
		What I'm doing is I'm putting myself in the shoes of people that have been legitimately oppressed.
		And I'm not talking about the critical theory oppression.
		I'm talking about real effing oppression, where your whole life has been dominated.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And let me ask you a question.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Why were the Marines formed?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		The Barbary Wars.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And what did the Sultan say to Thomas Jefferson, which resulted in him saying, you know what, fine, then we're forming the Marines.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, the pirates were demanding a ransom.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		When the American ships were being attacked by the North African Barbary States, Jefferson and Adams, many other U.S.
		agents, were like, yo, we got no problem with you guys.
		Why are you consistently attacking our ships?
		And you know what the response was?
		Our religion says we're allowed to do it.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So he said, if that's what you're going to do, I am going to raise a navy and I will wipe you out.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And it was probably a big mistake, by the way.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		That's what the English empire, that's what the British empire does.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I mean, think about the implications of, first off, he didn't get a declaration of war from
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Congress.
unidentified		He just went about it with having Thomas Jefferson.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		That was the point.
		No, no, no.
		It wasn't even mark and reprisal.
		It was kind of like almost an authorization of military force type deal.
		By the way, the French and the British had forever just been paying those pirates off, paying the ransom.
		And I think he ended up spending a lot more money on it than if he had just paid them off.
		So people died and he wasted a lot of money.
		I'm not saying it's the right thing to do.
		The pirates were the aggressors in that.
		But here's my issue with this.
		My issue with when we go back to like, okay, but look, in the year 1801, a radical Muslim did this.
		Here's kind of the problem.
		Do you guys familiar with the King Crane Commission?
		No.
		So the King Graham Commission was after World War I. At the end of World War I, I think it started at the Paris Peace Conference, and they were trying to get the British and the French on board, but they kind of pulled out of it, so the Americans just did it without them.
		But they sent a commission into the Muslim world, because the Ottoman Empire had collapsed, and now there were all these territories that used to be ruled by the Ottoman Empire, and they were kind of going on like a fact-finding mission.
		Like they went there to just kind of like survey and interview a lot of people and figure out what we're gonna do with this part of the world.
		And there's a few really interesting things that they found.
		Number one, Syria overwhelmingly voted, and Syria back then was much bigger than Syria today, but so it's like the land Syria is, and then I think a bigger area than that.
		Overwhelmingly, they said, who would you like to rule you under a League of Nations mandate?
		And overwhelmingly, Syria voted for the United States of America.
		So, this narrative that they hate us because we're free is really not very true.
		In fact, when we were viewed as the ones who weren't the imperialist force, remember this is World War I, okay?
		They were like, America, the city on the hill that's all about freedom and doesn't intervene in our part of the world?
		We love those guys!
		Like, they had nothing but a positive feeling about those guys.
		And likewise, early on, if you read the early Zionist writers, they were not, like, they didn't consider the Arabs to be an enemy.
		So my point is just that actually, a lot of, I'm not saying every, the problem with when you go back to, say, like, the 7th century, or you go back hundreds and hundreds of years and go, look, they were being barbaric then, the truth is that everyone was being barbaric then.
		If we look at more recent and more relevant history, you realize that actually, a lot of this, the Syrians, had no problem with America, they hated the British and the
		French.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And the point is, social media algorithms are resulting in people sharing things they don't
		understand and what I am bothered by is seeing people, I can use the specific example of Glenn
		Greenwald, instead of pointing out what's going on, misrepresenting the summation of what bin
		Laden wrote for the justification of their ideology.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I don't think he's misrepresenting it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he literally is.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I think he's trying to point out what he views as the most important aspect of that.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And I think maybe you're pointing out what you view as the most important aspect of that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what I'm pointing out.
		The letter has two questions.
		The first one is 50-50 between the prevention of Sharia law and allowing of homosexuality along with foreign policy from the United States.
		And the second part is that the U.S.
		is not Islamic.
		If you're going to claim his three grievances are specific U.S.
		foreign policy actions, you are misrepresenting what Bin Laden said.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		But he also says that he was- He did mention all of those specific grievances that Glenn
		Greenwald laid out.
		So my guess would be, and maybe this is a more charitable interpretation,
		but I think that what Glenn Greenwald is saying is essentially that like,
		kind of my position on this, that well, obviously it's a given that Osama Bin Laden's a bad guy
		and an Islamist.
		Like, no one's really... I mean, I guess some crazy 16-year-olds are, but no normal person is really questioning that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But that's not the point, okay?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Look at his grievances here.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And now let me clarify for you again.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		If bin Laden says, I attacked you because of these things, and Glenn says, actually it was these things, that's misrepresentation.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		But he does mention those things.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		He does say those things.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		If bin Laden says there are two main points Okay, the first being the attacks on us, which includes physical and ideological.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And the second half is, you must become Muslim.
		And then Glenn goes, actually it was only about U.S.
		foreign policy.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		He didn't say that.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		He didn't say it was only about that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He said three points and he names three specific forms.
		I'll tell you what bothers me.
		What bothers me is when activists with policy ends lie to gain power.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		But it's not a lie as much as you're saying he left out part of it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He mentioned three things and omitted... He explicitly states in his tweet That his three main grievances are... So he claims those are the main grievances.
		And they're not.
		There's two main grievances.
		One is the attack on them and their ideology, both physical and ideological.
		And the second is that we must convert to Islam.
unidentified		Right.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So when people say, they hate us for our freedoms, I think it's stupid and oversimplified.
unidentified		You could say, well look... And you're saying this is stupid and oversimplified.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		When we engage in foreign wars which destroy the way of life of people who don't want to live the way we do, we're making enemies.
		And what they want is for us to convert to their way of life.
		If the United States foreign policy acted in ways that resulted in the benefit of Islam, bin Laden would have been happy and he would have wrote that.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		See, here's the issue though.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Possibly.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Up until there was decades of interference into the Middle East, they weren't actually trying to get us to convert.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, this aspect of his letter, obviously I reject it and I'm not going to become a Muslim to acquiesce to Osama bin Laden's demands.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Good call.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		You'll be relieved to know he's dead.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		But all I'm taking away from this letter is what aligns with reality.
		And what does align with reality is that we have bombed his people for decades.
		And he does categorize that.
		He says that the sanctioned regime in Iraq, you guys don't care about this.
		He says, we have tried to be civil.
		We have tried to rationalize with you.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I pointed that out.
		I agree.
		Okay.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		But that matters!
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		That's important to talk about.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's broken into two sections.
		You have physically and ideologically attacked us, and you won't convert.
		Let me read another section for you.
		This is section 2A of the second half of his letter.
		We call you to be people of manners, principles, honor, and purity to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling, and trading with interest.
		To say his main grievances are specifically U.S.
		foreign policy is wrong.
		Is he mad about U.S.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		foreign policy?
		There were many other speeches and many other letters that he did where he mentioned these grievances over and over.
		You're right!
		Again, he's a radical Islamist!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And my point is this... Like, I don't know... Why are people... I'm gonna lay it plainly.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I am sick of ideologues manipulating information for their personal ideological ends.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		But you're making it sound as if it's not actually listed.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He does list it.
		No, I agree.
		It is listed.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There's two sections.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The ideological and physical attacks, as well as we not converting to Islam.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Those are the two main... What I'm taking from it is...
		What do I have control over?
		I'm not going to become a radical Islamist.
		I'm not going to adapt Sharia law.
		What I can do is get my effing State Department to stop saying these things.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He was probably a psychopath.
		He was a psychopath.
		Are you arguing that he only attacked us because of US foreign policy?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Let me say I think he would not have.
		I don't think he would have had the capacity to attack us if not for the radicalization
		that happens because of our sanction regime.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		He was a psychopath.
		I think the reason he was able to recruit enough people who were willing to commit suicide
		and attacking us was probably blowback.
		But let me say this.
		This, I think, is essentially my disagreement with you.
		And like you use the kind of Black Lives Matter, Michael Brown analogy.
		I'd look at it kind of like if you were, let's say, you were trapping someone in your basement
		and torturing them every single day.
		And I think that's a very, very bad thing.
		And they went crazy and completely lost their mind and wrote some manifesto, and half of the manifesto was like just the rantings of a madman, and half of it was like, and you came down here and you beat me with a wire every single day, and that's why I'm gonna try to kill you, and then that guy came and killed you.
		I'd go, well, yeah, I mean, look at the manifesto.
		He came and killed you because you were torturing him every day.
		Whereas someone else could look at that and go, no, these are the rantings of a madman.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I get it, but I don't think the analogy is one-for-one.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not perfect.
		It's not a perfect analogy.
		But the Mike Brown analogy isn't a perfect analogy either.
		I'm just saying that that is, I think, what he's trying to get at.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		My point with Mike Brown is specifically for the leftists who are adopting this and claiming he's right.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, they're stupid.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And then when people like Glenn come out and say, well, bin Laden was mad about war, this fuels the indoctrination of moronic millennials.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And you keep saying 16-year-olds, but dude, these are millennials who are in their 30s.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		No, I know, they're still 16, but I get your point.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they're very old 16 year olds.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And they're running for office, and they're in office, and they're chanting these things in the streets, they're in New York celebrating Hamas killing people.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I get your point on that, I'm just saying that also, I mean, Glenn Greenwald has like been serving them a heavy dose of reality through all of this.
		Fair enough, fair enough.
		But I'm also saying that I don't technically think he said anything wrong.
		If you want to say he omitted the fact that Osama Bin Laden is also a radical Islamist, I would just be charitable and say like, I think that's a given for sane people.
		It's not a given for these people that you're pulling on.
		So fair enough.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Anyone who read Glenn Greenwald's tweet would have an incorrect interpretation of the summation of the letter.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I think if they only heard your interpretation, they'd have an incorrect summation too.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I gave you the two full points and gave you the summary of them.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		But there's a lot that's included in there.
		The sanction regime you didn't mention, that was 1.5 million.
		He says, we killed 3,000 of yours, all of a sudden you care.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The whole reason that they- Yes, the physical attacks on their countries.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		That detail matters a lot because he's saying, he's saying, he's saying, I have tried to have civil conversation.
		Y'all don't listen to us.
		You only respond to aggression.
		We're going to give you aggression.
		I'm not justifying it.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And there is a terrible in section one, if I'm not mistaken, cause I didn't get a chance to read this today when we found it.
		Cause it's been scrubbed from the internet.
		It's been years since I've read this.
		And so I'm going off memory, but I did think in section one, he did list out those three grievances, right?
		Like I understand there were the two sections, but I think he did list out the three grievances of like There's way more.
		And the first grievance is Palestine.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So for Glenn to say it's Iraq and it's Israel and then Saudi land when actually the first point was Palestine.
		is that the first grievance is palestine also for glenn to say it's iraq
		and it's israel and then saudi land when actually the first point was so it
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		should be israel then arrived so it's it's so it's it's israel
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		it is israel it is israel
		it is israel okay that's a malia uh... number five is somalia
		then it's uh...
		uh... the next section goes on to be like you guys use bonds prevent sharia
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		everywhere but he doesn't talk about a global caliphate he's not talking to i
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		know but but the point you're bringing up with the specific things i'm not
		there yet i'm in section of seven not there yet eight not there yet nine
		palestine still uh... ten uh... still not there still we want your real on
		your blocking sharia the next one is uh... okay you're stealing our oil
		And it's the biggest theft of mankind.
		Okay, still not those specific military things, but yes, generally foreign policy.
		Here we go.
		Finally, I think we're at point 13.
		You occupy our countries with military bases and allow Jews to ensure the continuity.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		You're skipping over number one after like paragraph two where he says, because you attacked us and continue to attack us.
		And then he says, A, you attacked us in Palestine.
		And then he starts to list this off.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		How many times do I got to say the first section is that we attack them?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know, but you're saying he doesn't do it until the very end.
		That's not true.
		He does do it in the very beginning.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The points that Glenn Greenwald made have not even come up after the 15th paragraph.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		You're saying that the Iraq blockade didn't come up until much later.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying that for Glenn, To make these points, that these are the main grievances, is Glenn choosing subjects that benefit his ideology, and it's manipulative, and I am sick of ideologues who do this.
		I don't care if you're the left, right, libertarian, up, down, whatever.
		I don't care if you're Christian, Muslim, whatever.
		If you're gonna lie to me to steal power, I'm gonna call you out for it.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think Glenn Greenwald is trying to steal any power.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He's trying to impose his ideological values by obfuscating what's actually being said.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		He has his own bias.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		When he reads this, he takes away certain, you know, notes that he thinks that that's the summation.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Can we say, screw Glenn Greenwald and let's talk about the substance of this letter for a little bit?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And my point is, just using him as a singular example, the left is arguing that bin Laden is right because the first 15 paragraphs are almost entirely about Palestine.
		And the context is, Israel and Palestine are currently in the hottest conflict we've seen in our lifetimes.
		And so they are deciding to claim all of his stuff about Sharia and Islam is also correct in its entirety.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, I mean, look, again, I think you can say this, and I know there's a tendency for people to kind of caricature what, characterize what you say, but Why is it that this is there's fertile ground for even this type of craziness to take off right now and it is because well look there's this war in Gaza going on right now which is pretty horrific and a lot of like innocent people are dying in that war and so even when you have this letter that's talking all about how those people over there hate you in large part because of what your government has propped up Israel to be able to do in Gaza
		This is probably, at least partially, why there's fertile ground for this narrative to catch fire right now.
		That doesn't mean it's completely right.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's actually not right.
		But here's the problem is that we lied to the American people.
		Not we, but the fucking government did.
		They didn't tell us the truth about why they were actually upset with us.
		So now you have all of these kids that are growing up going like, they hate us because we're free.
		And then they realize, oh, it's actually not just that.
		It's actually not, because it's not true, and it hasn't been true from the beginning.
		So because they were deceived, now they go to TikTok to learn history lessons, and then they get misled, and we're all upset about it.
		Well, how about we just start by telling the truth?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And my point is, social media is indoctrinating young people, the millennials and lower, into psychotic beliefs.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		This kid I pointed up did not just say we were lied to, he says Bin Laden was right.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yes, okay, now that's stupid, but here's the really sad thing, Tim.
		Even though you're right and that is insane, they're getting better history than George W. Bush taught them.
		So as crazy as all of this is, at least now they're hearing the other side of the story.
		They're still reaching a very dumb conclusion if their conclusion is Osama bin Laden was right.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They did not read the letter.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I don't know.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		There's no way of knowing that for sure.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There's no reasonable way to say that a leftist agrees with the statement that we must ban homosexuality.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I agree with you.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Here's why I think you're wrong in a sense, because the leftists will be so hypocritical that almost every situation they look at, they have to look at it through who is the oppressor versus who is the oppressed, and whoever is the the more white European looking ones is always the more
unidentified		oppressed.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And if those two things completely contradict each other, it doesn't matter.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I want to just in general, if a Muslim is being oppressed, then they'll be like, okay,
		we're on the side of the Muslim.
		And then if they feel like a gay person's being oppressed, they're on the side of the
		gay person.
		And the fact that that Muslim and that gay person would not get along very well, just
		does not like register.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And I agree with you, but it's more mostly about ignorance.
		Like when they have queers for Palestine and they made the pride Palestine flag, there's
		a big difference between not knowing anything and just waving a flag.
		So when reading a direct statement that says abandon and ban.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		If Osama Bin Laden woke up and was like, geez, it's 8.30am, well, Osama Bin Laden was right.
		That doesn't mean that he's right about everything he said.
		Probably some things in here are correct.
		It's specifically about why they were attacking.
		He seems pretty honest.
		The Palestine stuff.
		But then we gotta be clear, he didn't say that they're fighting us because we won't adopt Sharia.
		Part of it is, you won't let us practice our Sharia in our countries of choice, so we will fight.
		Then the second part, what are we calling on you to do now, is like, adopt Sharia.
		They're pissed.
		They're beyond the pale at that point.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because he says, you guys have aggressed so consistently, and you don't listen to reason, you don't listen to rational discussion, you don't want to have any negotiations, you don't want to be civil at all.
		Think about this.
		We phrase these radical jihadis as the most uncivil, barbaric people on the planet.
		They look at us, the Americans, and they say, y'all aren't civil.
		Think about how crazy that is.
		The headchoppers in Syria think that the American empire isn't civil.
		People need to internalize this.
		Actually think about what they're saying there.
		That's profound.
		That's profound that they think that we are the barbarians on earth.
		Like, take it in for a second.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		For real.
		You know, this is something that I kind of like came across in the debate I was doing last night.
		And there's part of this thing where, look, we are unquestionably Say the United States of America and Israel compared to the Muslim world in which we've fought a lot of wars over the last couple decades.
		We are undeniably much more advanced, much more sophisticated, much more systematized, and they are much more primitive than us.
		And so it's very easy for people to go like, you know, what people who are on, say, like the pro-Israeli side of the argument, if you go, well, look, I mean, Hamas killed all these people.
		I think that's really wrong.
		What happened on October 7th?
		But then look, Israel's killing all these innocent people in response.
		And I think that's wrong.
		It's very easy for them to be like, no, no, no, no, no.
		That was barbarians targeting civilians, and this is collateral damage done by military strikes.
		And it's very easy in the Western world to feel this difference.
		That like, well, no, but that's just different.
		You know what I mean?
		This is kind of like, look, this is bad policy.
		Or even good policy that happens to have these negative, you know, results.
		But, if those are your kids, and your sisters, and your mothers, and your wives, who are dying as a result of that policy, it is very easy to say, that is every bit as barbaric, that is every bit as evil, as whatever, you know what I mean, could be done in return.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		It's even more brutal because you're coming from a very poor place.
		The people in Gaza are so destitute.
		You have a full sanctioned regime.
		All they've dealt with is bombardment year after year, sniper fire.
		These people have been radicalized and we refuse to just look in the damn mirror and say, why?
		Why is this happening?
		Can we do anything to actually intervene on behalf of these people as opposed to just going, look at what Hamas did.
		Let's flatten everybody.
		Let's continue the cycle of death and destruction.
		All I'm calling upon people to do is to actually reflect on what got us here.
		That doesn't justify anything.
		It doesn't say that Hamas are the good people.
		It says, can we stop this cycle of violence?
		Can we?
		And for a lot of people, the answer is no, we can't.
		I reject that.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Please, religious man, back me up here!
		I can't speak to the specific history of the Israel-Palestine conflict because I don't know much about it, but what I will say is you can acknowledge that Islam has a unique problem of violence while also looking at the United States, seeing our own history, recognizing that, for example, in 2001, When New York was attacked, we felt that was an attack on our whole country and rightly so.
		I have friends born and raised in Georgia who fought up, who enlisted to fight in a war in the Middle East because people who they'd never met in their entire lives and probably never would were killed in a different state.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Same.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		And So, it's reasonable to say that even if I don't agree with their cause, for them, as people, to have their neighbors or family members killed in these conflicts, and then have that result in them wanting to take up arms against the West, while it's not something I'm saying I agree with Osama bin Laden, it is to say that that's predictable.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		It's predictable.
		Look, all of the wisest people who predicted everything that's gone wrong over the last 30 years in America, I mean like all of the best people, like the Pat Buchanans and the Ron Pauls and like all of the guys who stood up and were right about all of this stuff, they always said, like again to mention that Pat Buchanan quote, that terrorism is the price of empire.
		And if you want, and this is all of it, this isn't an Islamic, like, problem.
		Look at the Irish, when the British were dominating them.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		He literally pointed at my alcohol, by the way, when he's like, look at the Irish!
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Look at this guy over here!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Look at these sloppy drunks, okay?
		But right, okay, this is true all around the world.
		Terrorism is almost always the tool of the dominated.
		Like, this is what they have left in their arsenal.
		And I'm not saying that they might have some goofy beliefs that also go along with that, because when people get desperate, they tend to cling to whoever the most radical person around trying to recruit them is.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let's clarify.
		The George Bushian terrorism was...
		Insurgents and militants have attacked our military.
		That's terrorism.
		They call it a terror attack when a bomb is planted in a military base.
		Hold on.
		If our military is being attacked by foreign fighters in a foreign country that we invaded, that's not terrorism.
		They're calling it that because they want to win a political point.
		Terrorism is, why did Hamas target the music festival?
		That's terrorism.
		Targeting civilians intentionally for the purpose of gaining leverage over your enemy, terrorizing the people in the country to win political power.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		They want to inflict as much damage as possible on civilians because they know that the reaction will be catastrophic and because of that the rest of the Arab world and the Muslim world may rally to the defense.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		That is exactly what terrorism is designed to do.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Max Blumenthal said that Hamas targeted the music festival as a target of opportunity, knowing they could use civilians as leverage against the Israeli government.
		And I think the general assessment is Hamas wanted to disrupt the Abraham Accords, and they wanted to force, like the United States, what did they do?
		Biden promises $100 million to the Strip and the West Bank, of which a lot of that will flow into the hands of Hamas.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but look, I mean, again, and this is, just to be clear here, if you ever say, put yourself in their shoes, this is not saying, Therefore, they're right about everything.
		I'm just saying, to understand the situation, what were the Abraham Accords really?
		For years, even when I was a kid, under Yitzhak Rabin, who was the Prime Minister of Israel, and from way before then, the entire framing of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians was basically that Look, there is this resentment within the Arab world that Israel illegitimately got this land and kicked all of these Muslims off of this land to create their country and then continued.
		Not only did they take what the UN partition recommendation recommended by force, but then they took way more than that and then way more than that by war.
		And this isn't right.
		And all these Arabs should be allowed to return.
		That's their perspective, okay?
		And forever.
		And all the way up to Yitzhak Rabin in the 90s.
		The idea was that, look, we have to either make peace or kind of pretend to make peace or at least act as if we're offering a two-state solution here before we can ever make peace with the broader Arab world.
		The Netanyahu strategy was to go, screw that.
		We're never making peace with these Palestinians.
		You'll never get your state.
		We're gonna support Hamas just so you don't get your state.
		And what we're gonna do is try to buy off with US taxpayer dollars the rest of the Arab world to abandon your cause and recognize us and normalize relationships with us even though we will never give you your state.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Is that bad?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not saying... Forget even the moral... Yes, I do think it's bad, but forget even the moral judgment for a second.
		I'm saying put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians.
		This deal is now to buy off your last lifeline, which would be these surrounding Arab countries, and that you will never get... There's no more hope.
		You will be dominated forever.
		So of course they would want to break up.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		And what do people without hope do?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, radical things.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And my point is just the distinction between the George Bush-ian description of terrorism when they say, oh, some Iraqis just blew up a truck.
		They're terrorists.
		It's like, well, dude, you're an invading military force in a country that doesn't belong there.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying they're defending themselves versus people who are aggressing against foreign citizens.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not saying defending themselves.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying military action is different from people targeting civilians explicitly for gain.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I completely agree with that!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But I'm not even saying, you don't have to define them the way I'm defining them, I'm saying there's a distinction between the two.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Sure, yes.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And typically in American foreign policy, they say, oh, when people refer to the George Bush era definition of terrorism, when they were saying things like, you'll get terrorism, they were talking in the news about Iraqis or Afghanis bombing U.S.
		military targets, and then the media would call that a terrorist attack.
		Because it scared people in the same way 9-11 did.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Sure, no, but when I was referring to Pat Buchanan's quote, he was talking about 9-11, he was talking about the African Embassy bombing, so I get your point.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Look, fighting off an invading army is a very different thing than attacking people in a country that's dominating your country.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I guess the broader point is 9-11 was a terrorist attack.
		They attacked civilian targets, they killed thousands of civilians, and then that freaked Americans out to a great degree.
		The U.S.
		that invades, for some reason, Iraq!
		Whatever.
		And when the Iraqis resist, the reason they call it terrorism is to invoke the same sense of dread and fear in Americans that they felt from 9-11.
		Yeah.
		Even though it's a military.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Which is absurdly unfair to the Iraqis who had every right to defend themselves from the American empire that was attacking them for no reason at all.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		In hindsight, zero reason.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There's a reason.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Please.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we set up military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan surrounding Iran because we also want to attack Iran.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Bingo!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		There were a lot of reasons, but look.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the reasons are not good ones.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I think like, and this is what I try to say with this when you first start, if you're trying to first start understanding the whole thing, and then, because you got to understand it before you can really know what the correct policy is, but if you understand, because really, like I remember There was, I was on a, I used to, I was a contributor on an Essie Cup show, which she had a show on CNN back in, this was like in 2017 or something like that.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		And there was like this little- I'm such an OG Dave Smith fan, I watched every single episode.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're one of the 17 people who watched that show.
		It didn't go great.
		But it was good money, it was a good time, and it was fun for me at the time.
		But there was this ISIS attack in New York City, and a very, on the scale of terrorism, a very minor one.
		Was it a truck crash?
		Yeah it was a truck crash and he jumped out and he hit someone with the van and jumped out and shot off a gun and he said he was ISIS but like even that it wasn't even like really connected it was like a crazy person here who happened to be Muslim who happened to say I'm with ISIS and so we're going around this panel and I was just making the argument about how you know like You know, we always say we have to attack him over there, so we don't have to fight him over here, but the more we fight him over there, the more we're fighting him over here, and how there's kind of this cycle of blowback.
		And then there was this Democratic strategist who was next to me.
		I went off on a rant, the way I tend to do.
		And then he just goes to me, and he goes, yeah, but I'm sorry, but so you're just saying we have to do nothing?
		You're saying the response to this is we have to do nothing?
		I think we have to do something.
		And that was all he said.
		And this was like a professional democratic strategist.
		And that was his takeaway.
		It was like, literally, I felt like a caveman was next to me.
unidentified		Like, you go, you say nothing, I say something.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And I went, oh, OK.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Something is superior.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		You should have said, getting rid of our bases isn't nothing.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Right, well, right.
		But I kind of looked at it, and I was like, well, look.
		But do you see how you're feeling right now?
		We gotta do something.
		And what do you mean by something?
		You mean kill some people.
		Like, it's like, our people got killed.
		What are you saying?
		We don't go kill some of their people?
		And don't we totally understand, right?
		Everyone totally understands where after October 7th, what's the Israeli response?
		Flatten Gaza!
		What are the calls from all the politicians?
		Are you out of your mind?
		Aren't these innocent?
		And by the way, I'm saying I understand that response.
		I understand.
		Look, dude, when you look at those pictures of babies who died on October 7th, I look at those pictures and I see my kids' faces in those kids' faces.
		It's horrific.
		I think to myself, how would I feel if those were my kids?
		And I'll tell you, I'd feel exactly that way.
		I'd feel exactly that way.
		Somebody better die over this.
		And I don't even really care if some innocent people get killed.
		Whoever did this better die over this.
		But then look at the babies of the dead Palestinians and just understand it for nothing else other than just for strategic empathy.
		Understand it so you know what's going on here.
		That they also feel that way about their kids.
		And to be honest, I also see my kids' faces in those dead Palestinian kids' faces.
		Exactly.
		And it's like, okay, so once you understand that, you recognize that you're like, this whole cycle is only going to continue until we recognize that there's actually, sure, they might be Islamists and we're more secular or something like that.
		Not me.
		But the fundamental thing that's going, obviously, certain, exclude, but listen, The fundamental thing that's going on here is something that unites us more than divides us.
		That we're both responding to the fact that our people got killed and now we got to go kill your people.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		And we want to protect our children.
		That's a very human instinct regardless of our cultural differences.
		I know we got to go to Super Chats, but before we do that, I just want to say real quick, look, I'm a finance guy. All of the inflationary pressures that
		we're dealing with right now are a product of our empire. The dollar reserve currency
		status, whether you care about the Palestinians or the Israelis, it's really irrelevant. For
		your own family's sake, for the sake of everyone you know and love when it comes to
		your capacity to save and invest and retire, buy things.
		Everything is predicated off of whether or not the American government and the American people are willing to be adults about the situation that we stand in today and we say, we can't continue down this path.
		It's totally self-destructive.
		It's actually suicidal what we're doing to ourselves.
		So we have to take a non-interventionist position moving forward, not just for the sake of the world, but also for ourselves.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Can I just say one last thing before we go to Super Chats, and I'll try to keep this as brief as possible, but I know, Tim, that even in some areas where we may have some slight disagreements on this, because I listen to the show regularly and I know that you are completely, me and you, totally agree on what the American policy on this should be, which is that you're like, is not our fight we're not involved on this like yes yes
		please that we just shouldn't be to Italy or something. Why on earth are we
		when we're 30 plus trillion dollars in debt trying to get involved in every
		single fight and fund every with every other country and all of this but I will
		just say this because I mentioned the King Crane Commission before so the King Crane
		Commission one last thing that was really interesting about their findings
		because they go at have you read this Clint? No. We really got
		You should check us out.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
		So they go after World War One.
		So the Balfour Declaration has already been made where the British basically said, uh,
		we it pleases the king that the Jews have a homeland in Palestine as long as they don't
		violate the the rights of the non Jewish population there.
		And one of the things that the King Crane Commission came back after interviewing and
		surveying thousands of people in Palestine is they came back and they gave this recommendation
		to Woodrow Wilson, who was the president at the time.
		And they were like, listen, Mr. President, let me just tell you about this Balfour Declaration.
		It is unworkable because there is no way that the Zionist project can go forward while being
		consistent with the rights of the non Jewish people in the land.
		And they said, it will take an army, a military force, they said, of at least 50,000 people to force this on the Arabs.
		And they said, just know Mr. President, Woodrow Wilson, that you're not only, if you're supporting the Zionist project, you're not only committing yourself, But you're committing America to supporting force against the Arab population to create and maintain a Jewish state here.
		So basically what they were saying, now Woodrow Wilson ended up having a stroke and being incapacitated, best thing he ever did in his administration, but then he never got this message.
		But I'm just saying, when they said to create and maintain, they basically said if you're going to support Israel, what is now Israel, You're committing in perpetuity to commit force against this part of the world.
		And I think that's something that we have to recognize.
		It might be worth it, but understand that there is a cost that comes along with that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We're going to go to Super Chats, so smash the like button, subscribe to the channel, share the show with your friends.
		Go to TimCast.com, click join us, because if you thought this one was rowdy, wait till we can swear.
		Actually, I think we were already swearing.
		I've been holding it in so much.
		Wait till Dave and Clint can say all the naughty words.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Control demolition.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		The dirtiest words I can think of.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But also, especially check out tomorrow's Culture War episode on Tenet Media, where we're going to have Scott Horton and Will Chamberlain debating Israel.
		This is going to be fun.
		But we'll read your Super Chats now.
		Clint Torres says, Howdy people!
		Tim, I'll be leaving the country tonight for a few days, so there will be ample opportunity for others to pretend to be the fastest.
		Ah, that's right.
		Clint is always the first Super Chat.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Speaking about you last night, Clint.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've been doing that from my phone at home.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I am actually Clint Torres, so that's awkward.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's you, huh?
unidentified		No, I'm just kidding.
		I just thought it'd be funny if it were.
		Alright.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Volciferon says, the Alex Jones video game is hilarious.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, did you guys see this?
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		No.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		I haven't.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		I saw that there was some hubbub about it, as the kids say, but I haven't seen the game.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		What do we have here?
		We'll grab some more Super Chats.
		All right.
		Let's scroll down.
		Alpha Turkey saying the Osama thing with Gen Z is wild.
		Wild is certainly one way to say it.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		All right.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Curtis C says white wheelchair Santa is $1.40 more than black wheelchair Santa.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		It's patriarchy.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Hmm.
		Tien the Husky says, Lauren has a lot of passion, but she is unable to listen and understand other points of view.
		30 going on 13, seems like.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Lauren?
		Laura?
		Loomer?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think they mean Laura.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Cause you mentioned- Oh, Laura Loomer?
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		No, they're talking about when I argued with you and Lauren Southern on Culture War.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was my first thought.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't think they were talking about Lauren Southern.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		They were.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Creator of Infused.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Augusto Mimiche says, it's my birthday and I can't think of a better birthday gift than having Dave Smith on IRL.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The only thing I ask for is Dave's Trump impression.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I don't really do a very good Trump impression.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Nobody does.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Give me Trump getting us out of the Middle Eastern wars.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Tim does the best Trump impression.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Tim Dillon, uh, no, not Tim Dillon, uh, fucking... Tim Poole?
		Shane does the best, uh... Oh, yeah, Shane's is great.
		Shane Gillis.
		Shane Gillis is wild.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I have people, I mean, I guess if that's what people are implying.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		It's great.
unidentified		It's great.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
		Maybe we'll do it in the members only and we'll see if I can put it.
		I kind of feel like I can do impressions if no one tells me to do an impression.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't mean to prompt you, I'm just saying you're very good at it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		People are like, so people love my Pelosi impersonation because my Pelosi impersonation is just intended to make her sound as disgusting as possible.
unidentified		Donald Trump is so disgusting!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And it's not really meant to impress her.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Uncanny.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Dude, we played poker the last time I was here.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes those are the best impressions.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		But I like feel the same thing that I feel when she speaks.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		And that's what an impression's about.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		We played poker the last time I was here, and these two were just doing Trump impressions back and forth.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		That's true, yeah, me and Tim.
unidentified		By the way, happy birthday to the guy who said this was his birthday.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, Mimiche.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Mimiche himself.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Seamus and I were doing this thing where it was Trump and Mini-Trump.
		And then I would do a Trump impersonation, and then he would do a higher-pitched version of it.
		But then I guess he found out someone actually already did it.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think Zach Hadle already did a bit like that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's unfortunate.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Happy 70th birthday to my dad, Charlie.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't get to see you last week.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I love you very much.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I am the voice of Dr. Anthony Fauci on the recurring cast member on Freedom Tunes.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		But what happened was Trump was like the reasonable one and then Mini Trump was like the far more offensive, like, awful one who's just saying all the terrible things the media wants you to think Trump would say.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		So Trump would be like, no, we don't hate all of them.
unidentified		Like, yes we do, we hate all of them.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It was a lot of fun.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And then eventually Mini Trump has Trump arrested.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Tiny Trump, like, takes over.
unidentified		He's like, we're getting rid of the big Donald no more.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		We don't need him.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Jesus Crisp says, I plan on hanging spoons with care on my chimney this Christmas.
		If I'm really good and Catholic this year, maybe Seamus will make a visit.
		And yes, there will be a potato and Irish whiskey.
		Oh, I caught the cat yesterday.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Nice job.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And we named it Seamus.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		They said they're gonna name the cat Seamus.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Dude, you wanna hear a really funny story?
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		I said I didn't name it Seamus.
		My friends, I went over to their house once, and they had this little disabled goat, and they're like, yeah, we named him Seamus.
		And they were convincing me they named it Seamus.
		Turns out it was totally not his name.
		His name was Gibbless.
		But for a while, I was like, I was honored.
		They thought that that was gonna make me feel bad.
		I was like, that's a great name for him.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I gotta read this one.
		George M. says, WTF is going on?
		Left-wing civil war?
		Right-wing civil war?
		Seamus on Timcast?
		No elections?
		Boys can be girls?
		Kids praising terrorists?
		And all I really want to know is, what does she bring to the table?
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Thank you!
		If you guys want to understand that reference, go over to YouTube.com slash Freedom Tunes.
		Check out our newest cartoon.
		I think you'll enjoy it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So, now I'm gonna get to the part of the show where I only read the superchats that agreed with me.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		That's a good call.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Let's go.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, but there is one, and we'll see.
		There's certainly a lot that are calling me stupid.
		Our good friend RealHydro is just calling me the lowest IQ guy in the room, so respect.
		We appreciate the money.
		I'm Not Your Buddy Guy says, Tim is more right than you think, sadly.
		Then RealHydro says, Tim is an idiot and low IQ, so we'll definitely make sure we get some of those in.
		And let me try and find a good one.
		Uh, let's see, let's see.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Who sends someone money to say that?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		It's such a weird- I'm sorry, I mean like, that's the lowest IQ thing I've ever heard in my life.
unidentified		I don't think you're smart, here's my money.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I mean, like, real Hydro's a regular on the show.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I love you, real Hydro.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't shout at him.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Send more money to Tim to tell him how dumb he is, please.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'm just teasing.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, but he probably gives like a hundred bucks a day to insult me.
unidentified		That's awesome.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm just like, alright.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Subscribe to Liberty Lockdown, Hydro.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I need your money.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you though, there's a weird relationship with the whole internet and everything.
		It's something, the mix between like anonymity and internet shows where I know people who will literally like do the same thing, like insult me on Twitter every day.
		But then there'll be like this thing, like, there'll be like, ah, Dave's such an idiot.
		At one minute, at one hour and 13 minutes on his last episode, he said this, which is totally wrong.
		And you're like, dude, you're a fan.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		I've got the term.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		You're an hour and 13 minutes into this.
		What is this relationship where you consume all of my content and then try to hurl insults at me the next day?
		It's so strange.
		Imagine when we were a kid, if we could just be like, Larry, David, that last episode of Seinfeld sucked.
		I mean, here's 20 bucks, but I really think you should have tied the show together in a different way.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I want to buy the DVD box set, but you're a real bum though.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		It's so bizarre.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		The whole thing is so bizarre.
		I realize the term.
		It's a para-anti-social relationship.
		It goes beyond parasocial.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		They try to excite you to respond because they want to hear you respond to them.
		It gives people, like, I do exist.
		I am something.
		But I found if you respond to the negativity, then they're like, that's what gets his attention.
		They'll do more of that.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		You know what Ryan Long said to me?
		This is hilarious.
		Ryan Long, we were talking after the show at one point, he's like, I'm pretty sure after two years, no one has fans anymore.
		They all just hate you and talk crap about you in your comments section.
		I was like, that's the funniest thing I've ever heard.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		That's brutal.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There's something to that.
		Can't relate.
		Michael O. Pinkerton says, watching Dave calmly speak while Tim is shouting makes me even more disappointed that he couldn't run for president.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, alright, to be fair, I don't think Tim was shouting.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Was he?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, but I'm gonna read that one because I'm also disappointed.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Have you found peace with your decision not to run?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, I mean, it's, uh, it was a big, it was a big decision and there's definitely, uh, it was a tough one.
		You know, there's like a lot of decisions like we all have in our careers.
		You know, we kind of got to make decisions of like, okay, I'm going to do this or I'm going to do this moving forward.
		And I've always been pretty good about, um, You know, like, okay, I'm not going to live in the past.
		I made this decision.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Close that door.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		This one was hard.
		I was very seriously considering it for quite a while.
		And then just when it was time to like, be like, okay, I got to officially make the decision.
		There was just a lot of family stuff going on that I was just like, I don't think this is the right thing.
		And before I'm anything else, I'm a husband and a father.
		And so that was kind of like what I decided I erred on.
		But Look, man, I feel bad in the sense that I disappointed.
		I know there were a lot of people who wanted me to, but I'm nothing but blessed and fortunate.
		I have an amazing family.
		I have an amazing career.
		I get to do everything I love to do, so I love where I am.
		And also, I still do think that, like, I still do really think the Libertarian Party is going to do incredible things.
		I think the Mises Caucus has been an incredibly successful movement.
		I'm supporting Michael Recktenwald for president.
		I think he's a great candidate, by far the best candidate running.
		And I think he's going to be the Libertarian nominee.
		So, you know, it wasn't in the cards for 2024.
		I appreciate all the people who were very enthusiastic and supportive, particularly you, Tim, who were always, I know you were like way in on the Dan Smith, Mike Morales thing.
		And I appreciate that.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Particularly Tim Poole.
unidentified		Clint Russell was just like dying to see you.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, Clint, were you on this episode?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Oh my God.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Liberty Lockdown!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know you!
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		What's up, buddy?
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Gandhi didn't need to be president to change the world.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		He just needed to sleep with nine-year-olds in his bed.
unidentified		Would you consider aiding... Well, I'm sorry guys, it's history.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I gotta read some more Super Chats, I'm sorry.
		We have the members only coming up in a second, but I want to try and get as many people in.
		Or is it D. Radmac says, Tim, to remind you of your own words, the left has no values.
		They're just spewing new thing.
		And I actually think that's fair to say, seeing a lot of these leftists blindly just claim that bin Laden was right without actually knowing what they're talking about is maybe not absolutely because some of these videos are from people who say they're Muslim from Muslim countries, and they're surprised now that this video is coming out or this letter is coming out.
		But some of these people are just like, dude, you did not read that.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but you know, but again, the point I'm trying to make is I almost see this as consistency on their part.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember, like, do you remember when James... Consistently done.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, I agree.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		When James Lindsay, like, reprinted Mein Kampf and they agreed with it, you know what I mean?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		This is my point, you're right.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Right, yeah.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Dogs and rape culture.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Wokeness is the social orthodoxy of the liberal, of the left liberal faction.
		Right.
		That's it.
		And so that means when, you know, even to James, when James Lindsay is like, well, the left believes these things and these things.
		I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, they don't.
		That's why, why is it that the same people who are, you know, woke are also flying Ukrainian flags, whatever current thing is.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And one of the things that's really kind of entertaining in a dark way is that the debate on the left right now, when you have leftist Jews or leftist pro-Israeli types versus leftist pro-Palestinian types, is that there's so much atrophy from the last 15 years that they can't even have a debate.
		So all they have to do is try to outwoke each other.
		You know what I mean?
		Like the Jews will be like, we're the oppressed minority.
		And then they'll be like, no, we're the oppressed minority.
		Like you should be counseled.
		No, you should be counseled.
		And it's like, this is the only tool they have left in their tool belt.
		It's really, it's sad.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		It puts me in a terribly challenging position to try and make the Palestinian argument without being categorized as one of these people, because I don't have like anything in common with them otherwise, but I think they happen to be right just for the wrong reasons.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		X, Y, and Z says, you fail to understand that Islam's goal is to subjugate everyone to Islam.
		It is not a banal live and let live ideology.
		It's like communism.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		They are so freaking horrible.
		And let me tell you something about how much better our culture is, is that the United States of America would never try to subjugate the rest of the world to our goals, right?
		I mean, like, come on, dude.
		It's like, it's so easy to just pass this blame off on some other culture while we're doing it.
		Who's actually taking over the world?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		And if they had the ability, they'd try to conquer us.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		It's like, as we conquer all of them.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Dude, what part of the world?
		This is the point.
		There are a couple sections on the freaking globe that the US Empire...
		But this doesn't change the whole point.
		But I'm just saying, a couple sections on the globe that the US Empire doesn't dominate.
		And we are every single day demonizing them, trying to move in on dominating them.
		So I'm sorry.
		Doesn't change anything.
		No, I'm not saying it does.
		But no American gets to just point the finger over at them and say, you don't understand
		the nature of their ideology.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And I agree.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, screw that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And I agree with, to a great degree, this comment that it is a lot like communism, and it's different because it's a religion and communism is just people trying to steal power.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Communism is kind of a religion too, but sure, I get your point.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		one's got a God at least, and one's got scripture.
		And my thing is, and I'll say this about Israel, having power doesn't make you inherently wrong or evil.
		It's what you're doing.
		And so for the United States, I agree with you, the US is doing all of these things.
		It is bad.
		It would be bad if anyone else did it.
		And so we shouldn't be doing it.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 100%.
		But it's just like kind of a weird thing where like, it's like if you, I don't know,
		like if you were like taking away, like kicking like a schizophrenic person out of their house.
		And as you're kicking them out of their house, you're going, you know that that guy wants to take my house.
		It's like, yeah, but you're actively taking his house.
		Like, how do you get to do that?
		And so, I'm not even denying that.
		Yeah, there's radical Islamists who would totally love to take over the world and take over and enforce Sharia law on the whole world.
		Okay.
		There's no threat of that happening.
		So let's deal with reality.
unidentified		Yep.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Alright, let's read some more.
		What do we have here?
		What do we have here?
		Ryan Renner says, Ian's Timcast coffee should be the instant freeze-dried crystals, since you love crystals so much.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		That's funny.
		I don't like instant coffee, though.
		I want a low-acidity, maybe, coffee, something like that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		How would we do that?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Like a dark roast?
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's just certain types.
		I don't know how they're made, but certain types of coffees are very low-acidity.
		You can avoid the burn.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I gotta give an honorable mention, as we do, because you were talking about, you saw what Bethany Mendel tweeted, right?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		She said the only, I'm paraphrasing, the only reason not to nuke Gaza is that the fallout would harm Israelis.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I saw that.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's certainly not sane thought happening there.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And look, I mean, and Lindsey Graham saying, you know, turn Gaza to glass or flatten Gaza and all this stuff.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Look, there's horrible rhetoric on all sides coming out of this.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Lindsey Graham saying, with or without evidence, we should bomb Iraq.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Which is really... Lindsey Graham is as crazy as any jihadist.
		As any jihadist.
		He's absolutely out of his mind.
		He's been in power forever.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, again, and that's not to give cover to one side to point out the other, but it's like... To point out how crazy both sides are.
		But you will see within like kind of the corporate media where there's so much attention paid.
		In fact, people will go on and it'll just be like, they said river to the sea.
		What does river to the sea really mean to you?
		And then someone will be like, well, okay, look, I mean, Could mean that they think all of Israel should be returned to the Muslims, or it could mean they want to genocide everyone, or it could... But it's like, well, what does flatten Gaza mean?
		What does turn Gaza to Glasgow mean?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Nikki Haley said, finish them!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And what does that mean?
		Like, what exactly, like, how many innocent... There is over one million kids in Gaza right now.
		So, like, what are we talking about?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Here's a good one for you.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Nathan Brubaker says, Dave, given that we've been funding Ukraine, do you think they'll be our next enemy?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Based off the intro to your show, you have to say yes.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Look, there's no question they're already our enemy.
		Listen, the Ukrainians, part of who we've been funding, you want to talk about the radical right-wing elements in the Ukrainian forces?
		I mean, the Azov and the, you know, I mean, this is a, you know, like straight up neo-Nazi groups.
		I'm not saying that's all of Ukraine.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure they're going to exist.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Ukraine, forget even our enemy, because that is my tagline, one of the things in my show is if you want to know who our next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
		Well look, there was just an article this week saying that Ukraine were the ones who pulled off the Nord Stream pipeline bombing, right?
		Now, I don't know if I believe that, but that's a...
		A terrorist attack on a European ally, right?
		So yeah, this is how the cycle always works.
		And by the way, look, it applies to Israel too.
		Funding and propping up Hamas.
		And now look where they are.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		We're here funding Israel at the moment.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		When we had Majid Nawaz on, he made a really interesting point about this where he said what we're essentially doing is we are arming and giving combat training and combat experience to neo-Nazis.
		All we do, all the media wants to discuss is radicalization and how there's going to be some kind of far-right uprising in the United States.
		Look what we're actually doing and we're literally like arming Nazi militants.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Here's the important point though.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		We've been doing that in the Wahhabist sect of Islam forever!
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		That's what we do!
		But my point is also, like, in the point Majid was making, is after the war in Ukraine is over, Azov does not disappear.
		You still have a bunch of neo-Nazis who have combat training.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		But my point is to be fair, a fair amount of them have disappeared, thanks to Vladimir Putin.
		But yes.
		And it's pretty funny that the same people who call anyone right of center who disagrees with them a neo-Nazi here, who have supported this propping up of the Ukrainian side of this proxy war, make nothing but excuses for them.
		Like, I've literally seen, uh, what's her name, uh, Kathy, uh, was the one who debated Scott Horton?
		Kathy... Kathy Young.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Young, yeah.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And she's, and she's the most, like, goes after all these right-wingers, writes for, like, Bulwark or whatever, and Scott Horton at one point brought up, like, the Azov Battalion, and he was like, uh, he goes, uh, he brings up the Azov Battalion, and she goes, I don't want to discuss the Azov Battalion right now, and he's like, of course you don't!
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Of course you don't, you dumb-dumb!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And then she goes, but it's so funny, because she'll attack any right-wing group, like, here in the United States of America, and she's like, Yes, was the group founded by a Nazi.
		Yes, it's true, but they later moved away from that.
		It's incredible.
		So now any Trump supporter is a Nazi, but a literal neo-Nazi, like a guy walks by with a swastika tattoo on your neck and you're like, tattoos don't really mean that much.
		You know, it's just, it's goofy.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		It was incredible.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		No, it's true.
		It's true.
		It's very sad.
		But it goes back to what you were saying earlier, and it's actually a point I was going to make while you guys were talking, but you made it before I could get to it, which is basically that their only assessment of morality in any given situation is what the power dynamic is.
		And so in this instance, because the Nazis in Ukraine are on the other side of the power dynamic, they're not actual Nazis.
		Nazi means in power for whatever reason.
		Nazi actually just means bad.
		Nazi, right-wing, bigoted, homophobe.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well it's also crazy like how one of the things that's really kind of funny is that the big claim of the people look I'd say just like the majority of the political establishment was supporting Ukraine in this war and is now supporting Israel in their war and in the Ukrainian war they go Vladimir Putin cannot take territory by war!
unidentified		Right.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And then they go, Israel has a right to defend itself.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		And you're like, how did they get all their territory?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		George W. Bush's Freudian slip, where he was roasting Vladimir Putin and said, I'm launching an unjust invasion of Iraq.
unidentified		You can even see in that moment where he was like, I'm going to go to hell.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I got one last one for you that will light a fire under you before we go.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		All right.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Legamas says, bottom line, the modern West is the primary force which prevents the rebirth of the Rashidun Caliphate.
		People like UBL will never forgive the West for that, and the West should never seek forgiveness for this.
		The West must keep the Caliphate down at all costs.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well then, here would be a good idea.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of money.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, if the idea is to keep the caliphate down at all costs, may I humbly suggest a policy of not funding them.
unidentified		Yeah, hey!
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Of not funding, arming, training, and propping them up.
		Which, by the way, is what we did not just in 1979 and 1980 to try to take out the Soviets in Afghanistan, right?
		We funded the Mujahideen, the precursor to Al-Qaeda, but that And this really started with the George W. Bush administration in around 2006 after their dumbass war in Iraq led to this, uh, led to this, uh, you know, the Shiites taking full control in, in Iran.
		And then they realized they had to do the redirect and start siding with the Sunni radicals.
		But then under Barack Obama in Libya, in Syria, in Yemen, he sided with Al-Qaeda.
		Directly funded Al-Qaeda and ISIS in Syria.
		That's what led to the caliphate.
		So, look, if you want to sit here and say the biggest threat is the Islamic caliphate, okay, why did it happen?
		It happened because we overthrew Saddam Hussein, who was a bulwark against it.
		We overthrew Muammar Gaddafi, who was a bulwark against it.
		We tried to overthrow Bashar al-Assad, who was a bulwark against it, right?
		We did everything, and then directly funded them.
		So how about we stop doing that, if you're so concerned about it?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		And how about Netanyahu doesn't fund Hamas?
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		How about that?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We're gonna go to the members-only show, so go to TimCast.com, click join us, because now they're gonna get to swear about all of this on top of everything.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		It's been so hard not swearing.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So hard, huh?
		So, again, TimCast.com.
		We'll be live up in a few minutes.
		You can follow the show at TimCast IRL.
		You can follow me personally at TimCast.
		Smash the like button, guys.
		And, Dave, do you want to shout anything out?
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Part of the problem is my podcast.
dave smith ▲ ● ▼		Go check out my debate last night with Laura Loomer from Zero Hedge, if you haven't already, and ComicDaveSmith.com to come see me live doing stand-up comedy by you.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Dave's latest hour is the best work he's ever done.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		Make sure you go see him.
unidentified		Thank you.
clint russell ▲ ● ▼		At Liberty Lockpot on Twitter, yeah, subscribe, follow, do all that.
		Liberty Lockdown is the show, please subscribe, follow it on YouTube, Rumble everywhere else.
		Tower Gang on Wednesdays, it's out of, it's insane, maybe don't subscribe, whatever.
		And then thebestpoliticalshow.com, or we are Change All One Word on Rumble and YouTube with Luka Dukowski.
		We're gonna have on Jackson Hinkle on Sunday night, do not miss it.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		My name is Seamus Coghlan.
		I have a YouTube channel called Freedom Tunes.
		I make animated political cartoons.
		Please go on over there.
		The new cartoon is doing decently well.
		People are really laughing at it.
		I enjoyed it a lot.
		If you see it and you like it and you want to support what I do, become a member at freedomtunes.com.
		You'll get an extra cartoon each week, and we are also launching a behind-the-scenes podcast that I think you'll enjoy if you're a fan.
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		And follow me at Ian Crossland on the internet, anywhere.
		Pretty much every day at one o'clock, I'll do an interview with somebody cool.
		I talked to Forrest Cooper today.
		Went for like two and a half hours talking about battlefield tactics and so much more.
		The philosophy of combat and basically the philosophy of violence.
		It was very, very interesting.
		Also, it was invigorating to be in the room with two future American presidents.
		I'll let you guys decide who those two people are going to be.
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Me and Tim!
seamus coughlin ▲ ● ▼		Tim!
ian crossland ▲ ● ▼		Always, always happy to be here.
		Just Seamus.
		Alone on a hill.
serge du preez ▲ ● ▼		I'm Serge.com.
		I've been hanging out in the corner watching you guys go at it.
		It's been fun, as always.
		Yeah, cheers.
		See you guys in the after show.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We'll see you all at TimCast.com in a few minutes.

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