Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - Sunday Uncensored: Andrew Klavan Member Podcast: Could God Exist Inside The Universe He Created?
Aired: 2022-04-10
Duration: 36:33


=== Existence Outside Time (09:16) ===

[00:00:00]  Welcome to our special weekend show, Sunday Uncensored.
[00:00:04]  Every week we produce four uncensored episodes of the TimCast IRL podcast exclusively at TimCast.com, and we're going to bring you the most important for our weekend show.
[00:00:15]  If you want to check out more segments just like this, become a member at TimCast.com.
[00:00:20]  Now, enjoy the show.
[00:00:23]  We had a super chat where someone said that if God created the universe, he wouldn't, I believe he said he wouldn't exist within it or wouldn't have to.
[00:00:31]  And he said, computer programmers aren't constrained by their own computer code.
[00:00:35]  They exist outside of it.
[00:00:36]  I think that's a simple way for people to understand.
[00:00:39]  I think the question of God is substantially more profound than that, but I think it's a simple way for people who don't understand these questions to understand them and to carry this conversation forward.
[00:00:53]  This person said, computer programmers aren't constrained by their own code.
[00:00:55]  I believe that God could exist within the universe he created through an avatar of sorts.
[00:01:00]  Maybe like... Jesus.
[00:01:01]  Hey!
[00:01:02]  There you go.
[00:01:02]  But then Jesus isn't just an avatar, right?
[00:01:04]  He's like true God and true man.
[00:01:06]  Well, exactly.
[00:01:06]  I mean, if God created the universe, a way to be here and experience it as man is through the body of man.
[00:01:14]  It's still God.
[00:01:15]  Oh, like all human bodies.
[00:01:16]  So you think that's the way God's fingering reality is, by touching it with animals?
[00:01:21]  I think we all have a spark of the divine, but I think Jesus was superpower.
[00:01:25]  I think the thing is, it's impossible, and when I say impossible, I literally mean it, to imagine living outside of time.
[00:01:34]  And I think that's the important thing about God, is that he lives outside of time.
[00:01:37]  We live in time, he doesn't.
[00:01:39]  In Jesus, he finds out what time is like.
[00:01:44]  And people say, well he's all-knowing.
[00:01:46]  Yes, because he lives outside of time.
[00:01:48]  So even though it happens in time to him, everything is simultaneous.
[00:01:51]  We cannot imagine what that's like.
[00:01:52]  We can't imagine what it means.
[00:01:54]  We can see a facsimile, a two-dimensional representation.
[00:01:59]  When you're editing a video, you can see the file in your program from start to finish all at once, and you'll see little snippets, like little frames will be on the bar.
[00:02:09]  You ever edit a video?
[00:02:10]  There's the video bar, and you can see little clips of it, and you can see the audio waveform.
[00:02:14]  So it's sort of Granted, we don't have the mental capacity right now to experience it all literally at the same time.
[00:02:21]  But it's a facsimile.
[00:02:23]  But people will ask the question, they'll say, well, if God knows everything that's going to happen, how can you have free will?
[00:02:29]  Because he already knows what you're going to do.
[00:02:30]  But that's comparing outside of time to inside time.
[00:02:33]  You can't do it.
[00:02:33]  Well, also, yeah, there are just some questions we'll never be able to answer, so it's a mystery.
[00:02:39]  I've been thinking about time.
[00:02:41]  You know, Christ being all-God and all-man, or God being all-just and all-merciful, these are things that aren't perfectly possible for a human brain to reconcile.
[00:02:49]  Yeah, time too.
[00:02:49]  I think time is like, we're on our evolutionary path towards Just forgetting about time.
[00:02:54]  It's all movement.
[00:02:55]  It's the way we... We're saying the Earth goes around the Sun and we're calling it time, but it's just motion.
[00:02:59]  Everything's just moving.
[00:03:00]  It's spinning all at once.
[00:03:01]  I want to present this idea to you, Andrew, while we still have you here.
[00:03:05]  So, I was having an argument with a secular atheist who said, I am a wet robot.
[00:03:09]  Yeah.
[00:03:09]  And I said, you know, I grew up Catholic, became atheist, you know, got, you know, just hanging out punk rock, there's no God, all this stuff.
[00:03:16]  Then I had a few interesting philosophical conversations and then sort of, I would say, profound realizations.
[00:03:22]  And then I was like, okay, I definitely think there's a God.
[00:03:25]  I had like, I guess I'll describe it as I saw something when I was pondering and meditating.
[00:03:30]  And I don't consider myself theistic in the sense of scripture or anything like that, but I certainly believe there's something greater than us, there's a God.
[00:03:38]  So as I explained to this guy, and I mentioned on the show, If humans, if the universe is expansive and as massive as these people think it is, then I ask, like, would you assume that humans are the end, the most powerful form of intelligence that exists in the universe?
[00:03:54]  No, of course not.
[00:03:55]  Right.
[00:03:55]  Certainly something else exists more powerful and greater than us, right?
[00:03:58]  Okay, there we go.
[00:03:59]  That's the first step.
[00:04:02]  We know that four dimensions exist.
[00:04:05]  Mathematically, we've done it.
[00:04:06]  We're like, boom, there's more than three dimensions.
[00:04:09]  We can't perceive them.
[00:04:10]  We know there's something beyond us because it's like a Sudoku puzzle.
[00:04:13]  If we look at the universe and, based on science, believe that there will likely be a greater intelligence than ours, doesn't it stand to reason that it could scale up beyond human comprehension?
[00:04:22]  Yeah, I mean, the idea that you're always comparing, you know, the reason I made the point about the The step of faith to say that it is better to give a beggar bread than to kick a child is because once you have something that is better than something else, it means it's closer to something that is good.
[00:04:40]  And once you have an ultimate good, the question is done.
[00:04:44]  I don't believe that there's a proof of God because that would deprive you of your freedom.
[00:04:51]  But once you acknowledge that there are some things that are morally better than others, you're stuck with God.
[00:04:56]  I think there's actually, I would describe it like a Sudoku puzzle, in that we're trying to figure things out, we're trying to learn and understand the universe, and based on what we think we know now, I believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest it is very likely there is a God.
[00:05:13]  I think so too.
[00:05:14]  Even the fact of mathematics, you know, I talk about this in the book a little bit, You know, some scientists will say, the one I heard was, I'm a meat puppet with a chemistry set inside, you know?
[00:05:26]  And I always think, well, you know, show me a two.
[00:05:30]  You know, if everything is material, you know, what's a two?
[00:05:34]  And he said, take a look at my ex-girlfriend.
[00:05:36]  I'm just kidding.
[00:05:39]  That scientist would not say that, because he's a nice man.
[00:05:42]  We do have a lot of these conversations about physical things, but I'm curious, everyone's thoughts on what happens when you die.
[00:05:49]  Ah, well, I certainly believe that you are part of eternity, and what I believe is that we are cultivating that part of ourselves that actually is eternal.
[00:06:00]  And one of the interesting things about Christianity is that it insists that you get a new body.
[00:06:06]  And to me that's really meaningful because I don't know what I would be without a body.
[00:06:11]  You know, I don't think I'm a ghost in a machine.
[00:06:14]  I think my body is carrying the essence of who I am through memory and through by organizing
[00:06:20]  my experiences and all this and I think that will happen again.
[00:06:23]  I do believe there'll be a new heaven and a new earth.
[00:06:26]  I've been looking at lightning.
[00:06:27]  Yeah, I also, so what do you think heaven is or will be?
[00:06:33]  I mean, do you have a new body and a new place?
[00:06:34]  Is it a new life?
[00:06:35]  The only thing I can say is that when, I think it's probably beyond the imagination, but
[00:06:39]  the one thing I do believe is when people imagine it, they always imagine it as being
[00:06:43]  static.
[00:06:44]  You know, you'll hear Christians say, for eternity we'll be singing God's praises.
[00:06:48]  And you think, really?
[00:06:49]  For eternity?
[00:06:51]  About an hour or that.
[00:06:52]  I'll be ready for something else.
[00:06:54]  But I think that there'll still be the challenge of getting closer to God infinitely.
[00:06:58]  Oh, yeah.
[00:06:59]  Like spiraling towards the galactic core.
[00:07:01]  I want to say, yeah.
[00:07:02]  But infinitely.
[00:07:03]  I would say.
[00:07:03]  And then you bounce back out and you keep doing it over and over again.
[00:07:05]  No, I think it's infinite so you never get there actually.
[00:07:09]  We don't completely share a view here, but what I really appreciate you bringing up is the physical resurrection, because so many people conceive of the Christian afterlife as your soul just floating off of your body and never returning, but that isn't what we believe.
[00:07:21]  It's actually really important, because there is this C.S.
[00:07:25]  Lewis quote, which is very clever, but it's actually heretical.
[00:07:28]  Someone said, do you really believe you have a soul?
[00:07:30]  He said, no, you are a soul, you have a body.
[00:07:34]  Yeah, he didn't actually say that?
[00:07:35]  Oh, thank goodness.
[00:07:36]  All right, thank goodness.
[00:07:37]  Because it's not true, but you hear people say this all the time, and that's not a Christian view.
[00:07:42]  It's actually quite gnostic.
[00:07:43]  We as Christians believe that we are a body-soul composite, so the resurrection is a very important component of that.
[00:07:48]  Though, you know, I do believe at death, obviously, your soul is separated from your body.
[00:07:52]  I believe you are judged by God, and if you're in His grace and friendship, you go to Heaven, but if you're not quite perfect enough to be with him, because as scripture says, you can be united to nothing and perfect, you go through a process of purification that we as Catholics refer to as purgatory.
[00:08:04]  If you have made yourself his enemy and are an obstinate mortal sin, you go to hell for all of eternity.
[00:08:09]  That's what I believe.
[00:08:10]  I was telling you about DC's Legends of Tomorrow.
[00:08:12]  So get this, there's a show.
[00:08:13]  You ever hear of it?
[00:08:14]  Legends of Tomorrow?
[00:08:15]  I've heard of it, yeah.
[00:08:16]  It's like the CW show.
[00:08:18]  So it's a show about insignificant people Who travel through time to fix history.
[00:08:23]  And the idea is they were taken from the timeline because they didn't have big enough impact to screw up history.
[00:08:29]  And it's on like seven seasons.
[00:08:31]  But the fascinating thing is that one of the underlying plot points of the show is that Jesus is the son of God.
[00:08:37]  It's a fact and everyone knows as they travel through time.
[00:08:40]  So the second season was trying to reconstruct the Spear of Destiny that was granted its powers by the blood of Christ because it gives you godly powers over the timeline to rewrite it.
[00:08:51]  That's cool.
[00:08:52]  So I just think, I bring that up because There's also another scene where they're talking to a bunch of Vikings and they tell them that Jesus is the one true God or something like that.
[00:09:03]  But I bring this up now again, Seamus, because I'm on season five, I think,
[00:09:09]  and they said the fates, the Greek gods, have taken over reality with the loom of fate.

=== VIP Meet and Greet (02:26) ===

[00:09:17]  Everything is authoritarian.
[00:09:19]  And they explain how much better life is because these people who are being controlled
[00:09:24]  won't become evil.
[00:09:25]  Do you see an evil person like a Joseph Stalin around you?
[00:09:28]  They actually said that.
[00:09:30]  I just find it fascinating.
[00:09:31]  This show has an underlying premise that Christianity is true and unfalsifiable.
[00:09:37]  And Stalin is the bad guy.
[00:09:38]  Very rare.
[00:09:39]  They didn't say Hitler.
[00:09:40]  They didn't say Stalin is the bad guy.
[00:09:42]  I just want to mention, for my statement about what I believe on the afterlife, I may have spoken confusingly.
[00:09:49]  I want to remove the term obstinate.
[00:09:51]  We just believe it's a matter of mortal sin, because I'm sort of conflating terms here as I'm speaking quickly.
[00:09:58]  I read a book a long time ago about near-death experiences.
[00:10:00]  Yeah.
[00:10:01]  You mentioned that on the show, I believe.
[00:10:02]  Yeah.
[00:10:03]  And the fascinating thing was it was a researcher who was a skeptic, not overly religious, but interested in the phenomenon, interviewed hundreds of people and said that like the overwhelming majority were the exact same story.
[00:10:16]  Hey, it's Kimberly Fletcher here from Moms 4 America with some very exciting news.
[00:10:22]  Tucker Carlson is going on a nationwide tour this fall, and Moms 4 America has the exclusive VIP meet and greet experience for you.
[00:10:32]  Before each show, you can have the opportunity to meet Tucker Carlson in person.
[00:10:37]  These tickets are fully tax-deductible donations, so go to momsforamerica.us and get one of our very limited VIP meet-and-greet experiences with Tucker at any of the 15 cities on his first ever Coast to Coast tour.
[00:10:52]  Not only will you be supporting Moms for America in our mission to empower moms, promote liberty, and raise patriots, your tax-deductible donation secures you a full VIP experience with priority entrance and check-in, premium gold seating in the first five rows, access to a pre-show cocktail reception, an individual meet-and-greet, and photo with America's most famous conservative and our friend, Tucker Carlson.
[00:11:18]  Visit momsforamerica.us today for more information and to secure your exclusive VIP meet and greet tickets.
[00:11:27]  See you on the tour.
[00:11:42]  Holy shit, is that lightning?

=== Vibrations and the Spiritual (15:41) ===

[00:11:44]  Dude, this is interesting.
[00:11:45]  I've been looking at lightning lately.
[00:11:47]  Lightning goes from the Earth's core above, away from Earth, above the clouds.
[00:11:51]  Let me, I'll go back.
[00:11:52]  Actually, you just say what you're gonna say.
[00:11:53]  I'll say this later.
[00:11:54]  I am, just to sort of stay on the topic, I am actually, you might not suspect it, I'm very skeptical of the NDE stories.
[00:12:01]  But also, it's interesting, many people do tell the same story.
[00:12:04]  I think about 30% of people describe the experience very negatively.
[00:12:08]  We hear the NDE stories, right?
[00:12:09]  Because no one's going to sell... It's really hot!
[00:12:11]  Well, yeah, you'll sell a book.
[00:12:14]  You'll sell a book called Heaven is for Real.
[00:12:16]  No one's selling Hell is for Real.
[00:12:18]  And also, to be fair, they could be underrepresented because if you did go to hell when you have this NDE, if it is a legitimate experience of the afterlife, you're not going to wake up and be like, Yeah, I went to hell, you guys, I'm gonna be honest.
[00:12:31]  You're gonna be like, oh, it was great!
[00:12:32]  I went towards the light and it was beautiful!
[00:12:35]  I have a question, I have a question.
[00:12:38]  If you have a near-death experience and did very, just even quickly, perceive yourself going to hell, if you came out of that and then said, I repent, out of true fear and faith, actually, out of true fear, and then started going to church and praising the Lord, Would you actually go to heaven at that point?
[00:12:58]  Yeah, you can repent.
[00:12:59]  We believe in redemption.
[00:12:59]  But it's not faith at that point.
[00:13:00]  If you're at peace, the burning is going to feel good.
[00:13:03]  It's still faith.
[00:13:04]  Well, because you have to make a decision in deciding whether you're going to believe that was just a neurochemical reaction occurring in your brain because you were deprived of oxygen or if you really stepped into the afterlife for a moment.
[00:13:13]  People still believe in communism.
[00:13:14]  You can see anything and still believe.
[00:13:16]  What do you guys think hell is, right?
[00:13:18]  Because it's clearly not, you know, a red guy with horns poking while there's fire.
[00:13:25]  And I'll let you answer after, obviously, because I stole the mic from you, but I believe hell is ultimately an eternal state of separation from God, but I do believe it also involves physical torment, especially because I believe in a physical resurrection of the body.
[00:13:38]  And so I do believe people are in hell, they're burning, they're tortured by...
[00:13:44]  They're tortured by Satan and his minions.
[00:13:45]  have a nice day.
[00:13:46]  I didn't believe that.
[00:13:47]  I didn't know it was real.
[00:13:48]  I believe people are there.
[00:13:49]  If you can accept the fire.
[00:13:50]  What is it really fire?
[00:13:51]  I mean, because that seems more like...
[00:13:52]  It's electrical.
[00:13:53]  No, well, I mean, Dante's Inferno is...
[00:13:54]  There's discussion about this.
[00:13:55]  What do you think about Dante's Inferno?
[00:13:56]  It's interesting.
[00:14:01]  I mean, it's not canonical, but it's an interesting... Yeah, I don't think it's meant to be.
[00:14:06]  It's meant to be poetry.
[00:14:06]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:14:07]  Does the Bible actually say fire?
[00:14:10]  Yeah, well, the language of fire is used, but there's a lot of debate over this.
[00:14:14]  Yeah, because, like, the sun looks like it's on fire, but that's plasma.
[00:14:17]  Super hot gas.
[00:14:19]  In The Simpsons, Homer was just forced to eat donuts and he enjoyed it.
[00:14:21]  What if when people die, they're like, what?
[00:14:27]  If people die, their souls are in the earth, and then when lightning shoots out, they're releasing souls.
[00:14:32]  I was looking above the clouds when lightning strikes.
[00:14:34]  You see these blue jets shoot off into the galaxy, off into space.
[00:14:38]  It looks like a neural pathway activating.
[00:14:40]  This is one of the interesting things about theology that people get wrong, too.
[00:14:44]  Really, one way to read the Bible is that you don't die and go somewhere.
[00:14:50]  You die and then there is a day on which people are resurrected, brought back and judged.
[00:14:57]  N.T.
[00:14:57]  Wright writes about this a lot, you know, that it's not like you actually, the minute you die, you actually go some other place.
[00:15:03]  There is death and you are dead for, you know.
[00:15:06]  Oh, so you don't believe... Yes, this is a different... I don't agree, but it's interesting.
[00:15:11]  I don't know.
[00:15:12]  There is a view that... There is one view that the person is effectively sleeping until the final judgment.
[00:15:22]  We as Catholics believe that there's a particular judgment and a final judgment, so you are separated from your body, your soul is in one part of heaven or hell ultimately, but at the end we're resurrected and there's a public judgment.
[00:15:34]  That's the lightning strike, baby!
[00:15:36]  Purgatories in the Earth's core!
[00:15:38]  So I've actually, I have heard that before, and you know, I remember talking to some people about it, and they said, you know, they believe the reason why we preserve bodies, ceremonial burial that we do, is to keep your body ready for resurrection.
[00:15:51]  Well that, I think that's, I'm sure God can work this out.
[00:15:54]  Yeah, I think, I think, I don't know.
[00:15:56]  Not that they're saying that They need to embalm you so that God can resurrect you, but that they preserve you in hopes.
[00:16:03]  Yeah, when you're resurrected, you're resurrected.
[00:16:05]  I think it's very much symbolic.
[00:16:08]  People are saying we believe that this body will return.
[00:16:11]  This person is going to use it some day.
[00:16:13]  God will reanimate them.
[00:16:14]  So we're gonna treat the body reverently.
[00:16:16]  As opposed to just incinerating them.
[00:16:19]  Will you be 24?
[00:16:20]  I think I've actually heard some theologians say 33.
[00:16:22]  Interesting enough, because that's when you're like perfectly at your prime.
[00:16:25]  Isn't that what you rolled?
[00:16:26]  That's how old Jesus was when he died.
[00:16:27]  That's what you rolled on the show.
[00:16:28]  That's right.
[00:16:28]  There you go.
[00:16:29]  There you go.
[00:16:29]  It all makes sense now.
[00:16:30]  Thank you for coming back.
[00:16:31]  The entire thing makes sense.
[00:16:32]  With this, I think I'm going to have to go.
[00:16:33]  I've got to do my show in the morning and I've got to drive home.
[00:16:35]  This was fantastic.
[00:16:36]  I wish we could have gotten into it more.
[00:16:38]  And it was really great meeting you guys.
[00:16:40]  We'll keep talking.
[00:16:41]  I'm only an hour and a half away now.
[00:16:43]  Right on.
[00:16:43]  Appreciate it.
[00:16:45]  Do you know how to find your way out?
[00:16:46]  I do, yes.
[00:16:47]  All right.
[00:16:47]  Thanks so much for coming.
[00:16:48]  It's been great.
[00:16:48]  Thanks a lot.
[00:16:49]  We're gonna talk about lightning strikes now.
[00:16:51]  Also, I wanted to wait until he left to mention the parts we disagreed on so that he couldn't defend himself.
[00:17:00]  No, it was really great.
[00:17:01]  Ian, what do you think happens when you die?
[00:17:02]  I think the soul, I'm wondering now that if the soul is stored in the earth and then maybe the body is kept in intact because the patterns, like if you ever look at astrology, like wherever the sun and the stars are when your body's being created have this imprint on you.
[00:17:15]  So maybe there's something to it.
[00:17:16]  So it utilizes that imprint to release the energy through it and out into space.
[00:17:22]  And that's like going to heaven.
[00:17:24]  And maybe when you're, if you're more in touch with and you're, you're, you're more like calm and confident with what you are that you're, you just immediately go to heaven.
[00:17:32]  Interesting.
[00:17:32]  All right.
[00:17:33]  So here's why Andrew Clavin was wrong.
[00:17:35]  I love you, Andrew.
[00:17:36]  That's interesting.
[00:17:38]  So if I understand properly, because there's sort of a couple things that you are starting from or taking for granted with your narrative.
[00:17:45]  You're saying souls are stored in the earth.
[00:17:47]  You mean people are buried after they die and that's where their soul is?
[00:17:49]  Like the electromagnetic frequency around your body.
[00:17:52]  There's the human dynamo or the human, what do you call it?
[00:17:55]  Or a soul?
[00:17:56]  Human dynamo.
[00:17:56]  Have you ever looked?
[00:17:57]  We should probably pull a visual of this up so they know.
[00:17:59]  Human dynamo.
[00:18:00]  Yeah, Taurus.
[00:18:01]  Human dynamo.
[00:18:02]  Taurus.
[00:18:02]  So this is all astrology?
[00:18:03]  Is this part of astrology or is this your personal theory?
[00:18:05]  Because I don't know anything about astrology.
[00:18:06]  It's an idea scientifically that your heart produces a magnetic field.
[00:18:09]  Okay, the human dynamo is a superhero.
[00:18:10]  No, no, type the human dynamo Taurus.
[00:18:12]  Taurus.
[00:18:12]  That's cool that that's a superhero though.
[00:18:14]  T-O-R-U-S.
[00:18:17]  A Taurus is a shape.
[00:18:19]  And this, apparently, your heart is producing electromagnetic field.
[00:18:22]  So I think that's your soul.
[00:18:23]  But it's the interface with this field and the Earth's magnetic field that's producing what we know as a soul.
[00:18:28]  But have you considered that the soul could be something completely immaterial that we could never detect or capture with any instruments and that doesn't look like anything?
[00:18:36]  That was hard for me as a kid to ever, to think it was completely immaterial.
[00:18:40]  I could never wrap my mind around.
[00:18:41]  I don't understand.
[00:18:43]  Yeah.
[00:18:44]  But I think a lot of this would be things that you... Yeah, yeah, that's it.
[00:18:47]  So that's a lady because you can see the boobs.
[00:18:53]  So my question is...
[00:18:57]  You believe in a soul which is sort of more material, takes up physical space, and it's because you can't quite wrap your head around the idea of a soul which is totally material.
[00:19:06]  My question is, do you think it could still be possible even though you can't wrap your head around it, even if it's difficult for you?
[00:19:12]  It could be a subatomic vibration that we can't calculate.
[00:19:15]  But even that is a material thing.
[00:19:17]  What if it is completely immaterial?
[00:19:19]  We just can't understand what it is.
[00:19:20]  Outside of reality?
[00:19:23]  As far as we understand like it's it's totally spiritual so we can't it's not a vibration.
[00:19:29]  It's not energy It's just it's simply not material.
[00:19:32]  I don't know.
[00:19:33]  It's spiritual I'm not sure exactly how to describe the spiritual the problem when you say immaterial it makes me think of oh Non-racist.
[00:19:39]  I think you're not a real thing.
[00:19:41]  You're not a racist.
[00:19:42]  Well, let me think about this.
[00:19:43]  You're both wrong.
[00:19:44]  Nuh-uh.
[00:19:45]  And right at the same time.
[00:19:46]  You have to die with at least a million dollars in order to go to the burial with you.
[00:19:50]  That's right.
[00:19:52]  So the Pharaoh's got it right, man.
[00:19:53]  You gotta have a pyramid.
[00:19:55]  Well, you gotta pay your fee to cross the river.
[00:19:57]  Wouldn't it be sad?
[00:19:59]  But imagine how sad it would be if that was true.
[00:20:02]  Like, the pharaohs were right, and your body rotting away actually affected you in the afterlife, and so you only had, like, max, you know, for them, I guess.
[00:20:11]  But for them, they have, like, a couple thousand years of having paper-thin skin that doesn't really look right, and it's super gross, but that's... No, no, no.
[00:20:18]  You need to pay the toll, the fee, to cross the river Styx.
[00:20:22]  That's why you needed money.
[00:20:23]  Oh, okay.
[00:20:24]  That's why they put the two coins on your eyes.
[00:20:26]  We were talking about super-acceleration of the soul through the Earth's core into the galaxy if the gold stored with the dead people was also super-accelerating the energy field.
[00:20:35]  It'd be funny if when you die you go to, like, everything's woke in heaven.
[00:20:40]  It's just like the absolute epitome of wokeness.
[00:20:42]  That's the other place, bro.
[00:20:45]  Heaven and hell are the same thing, but it's the way you interact with it.
[00:20:48]  So it's like the burning heat of the sun.
[00:20:50]  If you're calm, it just feels like God's divine love, and it's burning away the impurity.
[00:20:54]  But if you're struggling, it hurts.
[00:20:56]  That's very fascinating, because I wouldn't say that I believe that, but there's an idea, if I'm not mistaken, in Orthodox Christianity, which is essentially that heaven and hell are the same place, and it's the state of your soul that causes you to react to God, either with love or with intense pain.
[00:21:10]  Again, not necessarily my belief, not my theory, not what I feel, but it's interesting you should say that because there is some precedent in some schools of Christian thought for that.
[00:21:17]  That's interesting.
[00:21:18]  But what I want to ask you about the soul here, your view of it, and maybe what I'm getting at, because by definition it's impossible to really explain the immaterial or the spiritual or what a soul is.
[00:21:32]  What is an idea made of?
[00:21:35]  Hey guys, Josh Hammer here, the host of America on Trial with Josh Hammer, a podcast for the First Podcast Network.
[00:21:41]  Look, there are a lot of shows out there that are explaining the political news cycle, what's happening on the Hill, the this, the that.
[00:21:48]  There are no other shows that are cutting straight to the point when it comes to the
[00:21:51]  unprecedented lawfare debilitating and affecting the 2024 presidential election.
[00:21:57]  We do all that every single day right here on America on Trial with Josh Hammer.
[00:22:01]  Subscribe and download your episodes wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:22:04]  America on Trial with Josh Hammer.
[00:22:08]  But that's sort of what produces an idea.
[00:22:11]  As far as we understand it, that correlates with you having ideas.
[00:22:14]  But what is an idea made of?
[00:22:15]  When you have an idea in your head, what is the experience of that idea made of?
[00:22:19]  I wonder if it's dark matter, but I think dark matter might be bullshit.
[00:22:22]  You have no word!
[00:22:23]  If it's spinning and causing force, maybe?
[00:22:26]  Ideas of force?
[00:22:28]  But what is a force?
[00:22:29]  You get what I'm saying?
[00:22:31]  At some point, you just cannot describe it.
[00:22:33]  And I think Well, I'll let you actually keep speculating, because I'm curious what you have to say about what you would say an idea is made of.
[00:22:40]  Yeah, well this one guy, this neighbor of mine at one point was beating his girlfriend, and I was like, who the fuck?
[00:22:45]  I called the cops on him one day, I didn't know who they were, and one day I saw them walk by, and I didn't know who it was, I just felt this dark force, this black hole force, and I knew it was the guy.
[00:22:56]  And then the question is, what is that feeling made of?
[00:22:59]  Is that feeling just your neural chemistry?
[00:23:01]  Or is there some immaterial component to it that we can't describe as an energy or as matter or as a vibration?
[00:23:07]  Yeah, I think it's more like that.
[00:23:08]  Like the CIA will say, don't look at the person you're following because they might turn around, they know they're being watched kind of thing.
[00:23:13]  Like, what is that force that's making them know or sensing that they're being watched?
[00:23:18]  They really say that?
[00:23:19]  I think so.
[00:23:19]  I've heard this.
[00:23:22]  My point, well, if Chris told you, I would disregard it entirely.
[00:23:26]  This is not the first time I've heard it, though.
[00:23:28]  I've heard it before, too.
[00:23:29]  My point is that with the spiritual, it's so difficult to explain, but ultimately that's what I believe.
[00:23:36]  I mean, I believe that its base component, like an idea is spiritual or experience itself is spiritual.
[00:23:44]  But there's no real way for us to fully describe or understand it.
[00:23:50]  It's very difficult.
[00:23:51]  Like, how do you describe consciousness, right?
[00:23:53]  Consciousness.
[00:23:56]  Well, I usually start with, it's a vibration, which is a very generic way to describe it.
[00:23:59]  Exactly, but the question is, why is it a vibration?
[00:24:01]  Because every time I ask myself the question, what is an idea made of?
[00:24:06]  I can't I can't really justify any of the descriptions that I would give it based on the material world, right?
[00:24:12]  So if I were to say it was like a vibration or or energy or something that might sound right in some instance, but why am I describing that?
[00:24:21]  Why does that?
[00:24:23]  Why would it be that?
[00:24:24]  How can I justify that?
[00:24:26]  I find that you can't.
[00:24:27]  Ultimately, it's just something spiritual and immaterial that we can't describe.
[00:24:30]  It needs to interface.
[00:24:31]  For an idea to come to fruition, you need the vibration and the body's reference, like the memory, so that you can be like, that feeling makes me think of that thing, and now I have a new, what I call, an idea.
[00:24:42]  My question is, why are you calling it a vibration?
[00:24:44]  Well, I look at the cosmic microwave background radiation that's like vibrating.
[00:24:48]  And then when you study like, um, Nassim Harriman's Schwarzschild proton, and you look at like, oh geez, the, the, the, I guess that comes from like the Planck constant and string theory.
[00:25:00]  I, it's not the right word.
[00:25:01]  Vibration is not the right word.
[00:25:03]  So then you get what I'm saying.
[00:25:04]  You get what I'm saying.
[00:25:05]  Like you just, you can't describe it at some level.
[00:25:07]  I got to point something out too.
[00:25:08]  Like Ian, The ideas you have about forces, plank, whatever, all of that stuff, you've never tested any of that.
[00:25:16]  You've never done the experiments.
[00:25:17]  You don't know if any of that's true.
[00:25:18]  You just believe it.
[00:25:18]  Right.
[00:25:19]  Yeah.
[00:25:20]  It just comes down to, can I make sense out of things?
[00:25:22]  The whole, like, there's a guy in the sky you'll never see and you can't understand.
[00:25:25]  I'm not, I'm not satisfied.
[00:25:27]  But no one believes that.
[00:25:27]  The God thing?
[00:25:28]  Like, that's, the God's a man?
[00:25:29]  That's like, that's fucking crazy.
[00:25:30]  The guy in the sky?
[00:25:31]  That's a caricature of, of Christianity.
[00:25:33]  Yeah, they call it HE in the Bible.
[00:25:34]  It's a capital H. I'm like, come on, that's, that's nonsense to me.
[00:25:37]  Like, it can't be a guy in the sky.
[00:25:39]  It's not!
[00:25:40]  That's more nonsense than vibrational string theory.
[00:25:41]  That's a caricature of Christianity.
[00:25:43]  So, if everything... So, Seamus, do you believe that God is a guy in the sky?
[00:25:47]  I believe that God is a man.
[00:25:48]  I believe that... Well, I believe that God... So, God describes himself with masculine pronouns, but of course, he transcends... Yeah, yeah, it's not... No, I would not conceive of God the way that Ian is describing.
[00:26:02]  I think people make the mistake of characterizing God as just the biggest, most powerful thing in the universe.
[00:26:11]  And sort of the largest, toughest bully around, rather than the creator of the universe.
[00:26:18]  The creator of the universe who exists.
[00:26:21]  Yeah.
[00:26:23]  Or existence itself.
[00:26:24]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:26:25]  Why could God not be the creation of the universe?
[00:26:27]  What do you mean?
[00:26:28]  So what do you mean by that?
[00:26:30]  Well, because God is uncreated, right?
[00:26:31]  I don't know.
[00:26:33]  So he didn't create himself.
[00:26:34]  Well, that's what I believe.
[00:26:36]  Okay.
[00:26:37]  That makes sense.
[00:26:38]  I do believe it's infinite.
[00:26:39]  I believe people can go too far in either direction.
[00:26:42]  So you end up with people who are deists who say that, you know, God created the universe or some higher power created the universe and just stepped away and the universe sort of runs like a clock he wound up and let go of and he's not really paying attention to it.
[00:26:54]  Then on the other hand, you have pantheists who say the universe is God and everything you're looking at is God all the time.
[00:27:00]  My view is that God created the universe And he is constantly sustaining it in existence.
[00:27:09]  So the universe is something different, but everything in the universe is being held in existence by God.
[00:27:17]  So we learn about God through our observation of the universe, but the universe is not him.

=== Sometimes Subconscious Conversations (08:25) ===

[00:27:25]  I do believe, I think that, at least I tend towards belief that the universe is God, that God is, it's the essence of energy interfacing with matter, or vibration interfacing with matter.
[00:27:36]  I'm sorry if I just keep going in circles.
[00:27:37]  No, no, I'm interested in hearing what you... What if we live in a computer simulation programmed by a 20-year-old college student?
[00:27:43]  I'll probably crap myself if that's real.
[00:27:45]  The college student doesn't live in the simulation he made.
[00:27:48]  He controls it.
[00:27:49]  He has a reason for doing it.
[00:27:51]  He has expectations.
[00:27:53]  There are things he wants out of it.
[00:27:54]  But where is he?
[00:27:55]  He's sitting in front of a computer screen.
[00:27:57]  Is that God, though, in the metaphor?
[00:27:58]  If we were in a simulation, if someone programs a universe into their computer and they're sitting outside of it, they are the God of that universe, of that universe, not of ours.
[00:28:12]  So God could, in my opinion, is outside of the thing he created.
[00:28:17]  And I think, you know, referencing Jesus and visiting Earth as a man and all that stuff.
[00:28:22]  That's how you would do it?
[00:28:23]  You'd plug yourself in and send yourself into the universe you created and you are still you, the creator, and everything in the universe that you programmed?
[00:28:32]  Obviously, you know, analogies break down and it's very difficult to describe, but what we believe as Catholics is that God, we describe it as, the Incarnation is God entering history.
[00:28:43]  That's sometimes the way that it's described.
[00:28:45]  What's that?
[00:28:46]  So the Incarnation would be Christ's Incarnation.
[00:28:51]  So God taking human form.
[00:28:53]  That's why I take some issues I have with it.
[00:28:55]  It's just so recent.
[00:28:56]  What about the last 100 billion years?
[00:28:58]  We didn't have a written history, so we didn't write about all the dudes that God came through.
[00:29:05]  You're assuming there are others.
[00:29:07]  First, why assume human motivations to God?
[00:29:10]  And second, if you were to make an assumption and you were to assume there are human motivations, it's very, very simple.
[00:29:16]  If a guy programmed a universe and he watched it run for thousands of years, and then he said, I'm gonna go inside and see what's up.
[00:29:23]  It's really easy to prescribe a human motivation to God.
[00:29:26]  I think the reality is you can't.
[00:29:29]  Yeah, it doesn't feel like a human motivation.
[00:29:30]  It's almost like when you shine a blue light and you see orange, like the counter light.
[00:29:36]  It's not the energy you're putting out, but it's what you see.
[00:29:39]  That's what God feels like.
[00:29:40]  Well, what we believe is the reason he entered the universe in that way, the reason the incarnation occurred, is the same reason he created the universe, which was as an act of love.
[00:29:49]  So I'm into this black hole theory, where we're inside of a black hole, and that there's universes, black holes within a universe, which is also a black hole within another universe that's a black hole from an outside, and that God is the people out there talking to us.
[00:30:02]  And that it's so many of them, but then I asked Ben about this and he's like, no, no, it's much more complicated.
[00:30:05]  There's Ben.
[00:30:06]  Ben Townsend.
[00:30:07]  And he said it's infinite black holes.
[00:30:09]  So it's, it's the, the garden of... What if those black holes are just, you know, hard drives?
[00:30:15]  That's fucking wicked, dude.
[00:30:17]  I mean, but where would- We're in Roblox.
[00:30:19]  Where would the guy be that built it?
[00:30:20]  That's the question.
[00:30:21]  We're actually just mining Bitcoin right now.
[00:30:23]  That theory would lead me up to that there's a guy at the very top that's like the grand coder, but where is he?
[00:30:29]  Is he in a room that he built?
[00:30:30]  What did he build it with?
[00:30:31]  You can't know.
[00:30:32]  So, but I assume you're analogizing right now, right?
[00:30:34]  You don't necessarily believe it's actually a computer?
[00:30:36]  Okay.
[00:30:36]  No, no, yeah.
[00:30:37]  With what Tim's saying about what if it's a guy simulating reality for us.
[00:30:41]  I'm not saying it's not.
[00:30:42]  I'm very agnostic.
[00:30:44]  I'm trying to put things in a simplistic human perspective.
[00:30:47]  Like when people are like, we must be in a simulation where someone created it for some reason, an advanced race, and it's like, okay, we'll extrapolate from there.
[00:30:54]  You know what I mean?
[00:30:55]  So if you're, like I said, either recognize you can't attach human motivations to God, you can only perceive it through the lens of how a human may interpret what God Yeah.
[00:31:05]  Azor wants.
[00:31:06]  Or just go ahead and make up whatever human motivation you want.
[00:31:08]  I've been talking to God lately.
[00:31:10]  Like, I ask my subconscious a question and it responds.
[00:31:12]  And I'm like, how much of that is God and how much of that is my own filter telling myself what I want to hear?
[00:31:17]  And you have to be very careful about that, right?
[00:31:19]  Because if you're listening to yourself and telling yourself that you're hearing God, you end up worshiping yourself.
[00:31:24]  That's very dangerous.
[00:31:25]  In Bruce Almighty, I think it was, I think it was Bruce Almighty, he asks God if he talks to people and he says, well, people who claim to talk to me are mostly talking to themselves.
[00:31:35]  What do you guys think about the subconscious and God?
[00:31:37]  Do you think they're the same thing?
[00:31:39]  I don't believe they're the same thing.
[00:31:41]  No, I don't believe they're the same thing.
[00:31:43]  But I think it can definitely be the case that a person is having a conversation with themselves and then they attempt to personify it as God, or they believe that they're talking to God when they're talking to themselves.
[00:31:54]  I definitely think that happens.
[00:31:56]  How are you talking to God?
[00:31:58]  I'll think a question.
[00:32:00]  And then the subconscious will answer it.
[00:32:02]  What does that mean?
[00:32:03]  I'll be like, what should I do?
[00:32:05]  I'll think it.
[00:32:05]  What should I do?
[00:32:06]  It'll show me an image of me eating kimchi.
[00:32:09]  But isn't this just you thinking in your own mind?
[00:32:12]  Maybe, but it's my subconscious.
[00:32:14]  I'm not choosing the response.
[00:32:14]  It just responds.
[00:32:15]  You know, your subconscious will just say stuff sometimes.
[00:32:18]  No.
[00:32:19]  Sometimes you just get thoughts.
[00:32:21]  Oh, I mean, I have ideas, but it's me.
[00:32:23]  Oh yeah, I think I have an inner monologue and I think in words and pictures and stuff.
[00:32:28]  Do you sort of mean like the first idea that pops into your head after you think this question?
[00:32:31]  Yeah, sometimes it's not an idea, it's like a feeling sometimes.
[00:32:33]  It'll be an image sometimes.
[00:32:36]  Sometimes I expect words to be like, do this, but it'll just be like the image of me doing something.
[00:32:40]  Maybe that is God.
[00:32:41]  Maybe people just assume they're giving themselves these things when they're asking for them.
[00:32:46]  Maybe that's what people can't perceive of prayer.
[00:32:48]  I think it's definitely possible that in many instances people are hearing from something other than themselves and saying it's themselves.
[00:32:55]  I think there can be demonic influence.
[00:32:57]  I also obviously, you know, I believe in prayer.
[00:33:00]  Yeah.
[00:33:00]  I caution people to... Yeah, demonic influence because I've had different voice... I've had like different...
[00:33:05]  People respond or whatever it is a different force and it's not the same one It's like a different one almost every time but it's like a group of them and sometimes it'll be like 60% good 40% evil or it'll be like 11% evil, you know or 20 and it'll be this weird like and sometimes you'll feel that it's evil like you'll you'll feel the aggression in the response and Yeah, I mean, I would just caution you to stay away from that, then.
[00:33:26]  Be careful, man.
[00:33:27]  I can't, man.
[00:33:27]  At this stage in my life, I've got to go.
[00:33:29]  No, you can't.
[00:33:30]  You can't get away.
[00:33:31]  I promise you can break away.
[00:33:32]  It's because what it is, Ian, is it's an abusive relationship.
[00:33:35]  What if, like, tomorrow, like, we're getting ready for the show, and then when Ian walks in, his eyes are completely yellow, and his skin is gray, and he floats in, and we're like, Ian, did you give in?
[00:33:44]  Yes.
[00:33:45]  I love God.
[00:33:46]  Ian is gone!
[00:33:47]  I am all that remains.
[00:33:49]  Honestly, I believe people are so disconnected from religion.
[00:33:51]  It would be so much more creepy to be like, we are what remains.
[00:33:54]  Seeing how people are so disconnected from religion, if we truly can establish a connection to God, like if we can really do it, and then help people to learn how to do it... See, why don't we film that?
[00:34:03]  That for the vlog?
[00:34:05]  Wow, I guess, you know, Ian... We are what remains.
[00:34:09]  And we'll have you do the voice and he'll just mouth it.
[00:34:11]  We are Ian.
[00:34:13]  Like, uh, Ian's trying to ascend again, and then someone walks up and hits him with a stick and he falls down.
[00:34:17]  You know what else I found?
[00:34:18]  Oh, sorry guys.
[00:34:19]  I was thinking words instead of saying them for a while, 2006, 7, 8, like I was experimenting with just thought communication, low frequency communication, and it was, seemed like it was hijacking God.
[00:34:28]  Like, it was deciding what God was gonna, like, I was becoming... Ah, but so then it is yourself.
[00:34:33]  Because a person can't hijack God, right?
[00:34:35]  I would tell my subconscious things and then it would start to believe them.
[00:34:38]  Like when people walk around and they're like, this fucking sucks!
[00:34:41]  You're telling God that and then God starts to believe it and then will create that reality for you or for other people.
[00:34:48]  I don't believe that's the case.
[00:34:51]  I think that you're convincing yourself, you're changing yourself, right?
[00:34:55]  Because if you can change it, then it isn't God.
[00:34:57]  Yeah, now you're talking about absolute truth, that there's an absolute power that cannot be corrupted.
[00:35:01]  That is possible.
[00:35:03]  Just because I can't comprehend it doesn't mean it's not real.
[00:35:07]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:35:08]  It's an interesting discussion.
[00:35:10]  Perhaps we should set up that longer conversation between you guys, but I think, you know... Fantastic.
[00:35:15]  Unless there's anything else you wanted to add to it, we'll wind it down.
[00:35:17]  Andrew had to leave, so, but, you know... Yeah, it was... That was... That was really a great discussion.
[00:35:24]  I very much enjoyed our discussion, and I really enjoyed our discussion with Andrew.
[00:35:28]  I thought this was a great... I'll point out... Just to point out one last thing before we go, I want to make sure we say this.
[00:35:32]  You can actually send some people looking at you.
[00:35:34]  We have this... You want to pull this article up?
[00:35:35]  That's right, yep.
[00:35:36]  Why can we sense when people are looking at us?
[00:35:38]  How strange.
[00:35:39]  It's freaking wild.
[00:35:40]  How strange.
[00:35:41]  It was strange that you didn't start reading the article right after you said the title.
[00:35:45]  What do you mean?
[00:35:46]  Normally you read the title and then immediately start reading the article.
[00:35:48]  Oh, I just wanted to highlight that.
[00:35:49]  Because someone was looking at him.
[00:35:49]  Yeah, I could feel it.
[00:35:50]  But this is actually on an article a couple years ago.

=== People Watching You (00:41) ===

[00:35:51]  A million people are watching you at once.
[00:35:52]  The internet video is so fascinating because people are watching you all the time now.
[00:35:56]  Like, right now there's probably 20,000 people watching you on the Earth, empowering you or doing something.
[00:36:02]  Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:36:03]  Based on all of the channels and the podcasts and everything, it's more than that.
[00:36:07]  It's like we've hacked God.
[00:36:09]  It's 50,000 right now just on YouTube alone from just TimCast IRL.
[00:36:13]  So it's probably like 200,000 people are currently watching some form of me talking.
[00:36:17]  That's amazing.
[00:36:18]  Yes, and so are you, good members over at 10k.com!
[00:36:20]  Right, we love you!
[00:36:22]  Thanks for hanging out!
[00:36:23]  We, uh, tomorrow, we're gonna be heading to Nashville, right after the show.
[00:36:26]  So we'll be doing the show like normal, and then immediately once we're done, we're hopping in the vehicles, we're driving out, we're spending a week with the Daily Wire crew, it's gonna be a blast!