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March 13, 2021 - Timcast IRL - Tim Pool
02:21:47
Timcast IRL - Minneapolis To Fund Antifa Autonomous Zone With $500k w/James Lindsay
Participants
Main voices
i
ian crossland
10:26
j
james lindsay
01:02:40
t
tim pool
01:05:32
Appearances
Clips
l
lydia smith
00:45
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
you you
tim pool
How's it going ladies and gentlemen?
Welcome to Timcast's IRL Podcast.
If you're not a subscriber, please smash that subscribe button and that like button and that notification bell so you can make sure you stay tuned to the shows.
We got a bunch of interesting stories and topics to talk about today.
The big story that's just breaking now is that amid the ongoing Derek Chauvin trial, Minneapolis has agreed to settle with the family of George Floyd for a historic $27 million in a wrongful death suit.
There's a lot of questions around why they would do this and how this is going to impact the trial of this officer and whether or not he's going to be able to get a fair trial now that the city's basically admitting fault.
I think ultimately it results in riots. A couple other stories though. Scotland,
my friends over in Scotland, Count Dankula, man they got it bad. A new anti-free speech law is
coming into effect. There's some news about Cuomo. They're apparently trying to cancel M&M because
you know M&M is edgy and I guess racist and homophobic and transphobic and bigoted and
all those really awful things.
And these young people are now realizing the kind of music this guy was making.
So he made a rebuttal song.
I don't think the song is that good, but we'll certainly talk about it.
And to assist us in navigating the world of woke, we have one of the preeminent scholars engaging in criticizing critical race theory, wokeness.
We have James Lindsay.
james lindsay
Hey Tim.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
Do you want to introduce yourself, explain what you do a little bit?
james lindsay
I wrote about woke.
So, I mean, you did a great job.
You called me a preeminent scholar.
What am I going to do better than that?
I like to tell people that I'm one of the best, I'm one of the leading scholars on critical race theory, et cetera, critical theory, among people who don't believe it.
And so there are probably people who are advocates and adherents who are in the faith who know it more deeply and more thoroughly than I do.
Maybe not.
But I don't believe it.
I think it's wrong.
I think it's actually racism reinvented, and go into as much depth as you want.
tim pool
It's just racism.
james lindsay
So that's what I do.
I have a website, New Discourses.
It's newdiscourses.com, and I try to put up podcasts, videos, and written material.
I'm writing an encyclopedia explaining how the woke talk, how they misuse words.
And that's about it.
It's all I do these days.
tim pool
And you're a fairly pessimistic, I guess, huh?
james lindsay
I'm a little pessimistic right now.
unidentified
Yeah.
Yeah.
james lindsay
I'm not.
I mean, a very it's like so black pill is the thing.
Right.
So people don't know what a black pill is.
You got like all these pills because the friggin matrix came out and now everything's a pill.
tim pool
Yeah.
unidentified
Right.
tim pool
Orange pills.
The Bitcoin one.
Is that Max Keiser's podcast?
unidentified
Yeah.
james lindsay
I didn't even know about that pill.
There's too many pills.
I know about the blue pill.
The blue pill means you want to stay in the Matrix.
I know about the red pill and that means you think that the media is lying and you want out of the Matrix.
And then there's a clear pill that's like, I don't care about any of this.
It's when George Carlin, back in the day, you remember George Carlin had that thing where he was like, I don't care who wins, I think it's all crap.
You know, I have no stake in the outcome any longer.
I'm just going to write jokes.
And he's like near the end of his life and he's just going to have his old man ranting.
That's that's going clear pill.
Like you don't you have no stake in the outcome anymore.
Just watching.
And you just go clear for yourself.
Then there's black pill, which means it's over.
It's over.
It's over.
Depressed.
That's it.
Despair.
And then there's white pill where all of a sudden you see hope.
And I guess there's orange pill.
tim pool
That's racist, bro.
james lindsay
Oh, I didn't write it.
tim pool
Racism.
james lindsay
I mean, a lot of pills are white, but some of them are pink and some of them are blue.
tim pool
Yeah, this is like, it's the weird world where colors all of a sudden represent race in any context.
So like, you know, Ian and I and a couple other people in the house, we all play Magic the Gathering.
It's a card game.
And they have colors.
It's like each card can have a different color.
And so because...
Because they use the colors white and black, there are certain cards they've deemed racist for simply using the mechanic of black magic.
Like this fantasy idea.
That's the depravity of wokeness.
james lindsay
Well, that's in their literature.
That's actually in their scholarly literature.
That's in the books.
They're literally in their scholarly books that they write.
The association with black magic being bad and white magic being good.
tim pool
But you know what really comes from?
Night and day.
That was literally what it was.
It was light and dark.
It was at night.
Things were dying.
It was dangerous.
There were predators.
In the winter, it got darker and everything died and it was scary and people got scared.
And then when the sun was out, we were warm and we were safe.
And so we just created this idea of light and dark, good and bad.
It had nothing to do with the color of someone's skin.
Now they've made it that way.
james lindsay
Yeah, yin and yang in Chinese, or as those gringos would say, yin and yang.
Yin is the black one, everybody, and yang is the white one.
And it's the creative and the receptive, if you go into the kind of Taoist cosmology.
tim pool
Super racist, though, because Asians are like more racist now, I guess.
Asians are more white than white people, I guess.
james lindsay
Yeah, they were white-adjacent for a while, and they're also a model minority, and now, though, they're just white, but then they're super white, because they get to claim that they're also a minority, so they get to hide from being white.
unidentified
So they're, like, extra super white.
james lindsay
It's, like, super straight, but super white.
But instead of being, like, good, it's bad.
It's all upside down.
It's all clown world.
tim pool
We'll get into this stuff, too.
We've got Ian.
He's chillin'.
ian crossland
Oh, hey, everybody.
Ian Crossland.
IanCrossland.net.
And I just want to point out that black and white are not colors.
They are shades.
lydia smith
Oh, yeah.
tim pool
That is true.
ian crossland
It's technical for a minute.
james lindsay
They are shades and tints or something like that.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
lydia smith
And then there's me in the corner pushing buttons correctly this time.
And I have no say in this color argument, so I'll turn it back to Tim.
tim pool
Before we get started, go to TimCast.com and sign up to become a member to get exclusive access to members-only podcast episodes and segments.
And I don't know if y'all are into this stuff, but the other day with Kim Iverson, she was talking about Destiny cards, and apparently I'm the Ace of Spades.
And as far as I'm concerned, that's like the best card.
And so naturally, I was like, tell me more, madame.
And we did like a 40 something minute segment where she broke down what destiny cards are.
It's a kind of astrology.
And I'm not, I'm not a big, you know, believer in any of this stuff, but she talked about how she predicted Donald Trump would be defeated, but not feel defeated and didn't understand what it meant until it happened.
I was like, now I get it.
So it's, it's interesting stuff.
But of course we also have Scott Pressler who was talking about primarying these America's Last Politicians.
So if that's more your cup of tea, become a member, and don't forget to smash that like button, subscribe to the notification bell.
Let's check out this first story, and then we'll just get into this stuff, because this is from CBS News.
Minneapolis approves historic $27 million settlement with George Floyd's family.
They say the city council voted 13 to 0 to approve the settlement which directs half a million dollars to be used to benefit the George Floyd memorial site at 38th and Chicago.
unidentified
Do you know what that means?
tim pool
I'm gonna build the suspense on y'all for a minute.
james lindsay
Thirteen to zero, really.
tim pool
This past weekend, the George Floyd Memorial site, which is an autonomous zone, someone was shot and killed.
The city has just announced they are going to fund this Antifa autonomous zone to the tune of half a million dollars.
That's the degree to which this insanity... I'm sorry, James, you may say that you're a little pessimistic, but boy, am I getting pessimistic on this one.
Twenty-seven million dollars in a civil settlement to the family.
Look, I'm upset the guy died.
I don't like it when anybody dies.
Twenty-seven million.
Historic.
unidentified
Why?
tim pool
Because the terror worked.
james lindsay
That's right.
tim pool
The burning down the cities, it worked.
james lindsay
That's right.
So what are you gonna see?
More fire.
tim pool
Yeah, they're giving half a million dollars to these people.
Now the crazy thing too is, Chauvin is still on trial.
And so you have these jurors who are supposed to be coming in and being asked if they can remain impartial, and now they're gonna be told, you know, in the civil case, they've already won.
Clearly he must be guilty of something the city's agreed to settle.
How can this guy get a fair trial?
ian crossland
O.J.
Simpson lost a civil case one- After, though, wasn't it?
I think the civil case was after the criminal case, though, in his case.
It's funny phrasing.
I don't know the history of civil case, criminal case, the adjunctives of it.
Is there a precedent for doing a civil case first, finding them?
james lindsay
I'm not a lawyer, I have no idea.
I do know that this was a wrongful death and that he's being tried for murder one, right?
tim pool
No, Murder 2, 3, and Manslaughter.
james lindsay
Oh, okay. So, yeah, who knows then?
Because the city is sort of admitting fault here.
ian crossland
Yep.
james lindsay
And, uh...
tim pool
I can't see that...
james lindsay
I don't see how you, yeah, I mean.
tim pool
I mean, I guess theoretically, maybe the judge will be like, no, no, no, you've got to separate that.
And maybe when it comes to the defense, they'll say a settlement is not an admission of guilt.
The city just simply thought paying out would be less expensive than the damage.
And he might actually say the fact the city thought $27 million was cheaper Then fighting the suit shows what they really feared was the riots from the extremists who are trying to destroy the city.
james lindsay
Well, yeah, of course.
I mean, that's what the whole gig is an extortion gig.
I get that there's like, oh, there's the passion.
People are locked down.
I don't want to like deny the, you know, what was the saying we had to endure?
It was a quote from Martin Luther King, but I felt like it was taking a bit out of context, which was that a riot is the voice of the unheard or something like that.
And I get it.
People were locked down for months.
People are like kind of out of their minds looking for something to do.
There's this flashpoint.
Everything goes crazy.
But...
It's an extortion gig.
Because the theory underlying it, if we look at critical race theory, is an extortion gig.
It works on public relations there, not riots.
But it also defends things like looting.
There was that book, Defense of Looting, that's all rooted in critical race theory and all this crazy stuff.
tim pool
That was written about Ferguson.
I was in Ferguson, and when that article came out, I threw up in my mouth a little bit.
It was like reading that was a combination of several different... What's the right word for this?
Like violations of ethics.
The first was to see the people desperately defending their town, their neighborhood from these violent rioters and looters who are exploiting them, to see the manipulation and fake news and the corruption of the media.
It was like all at once.
And I was like, oh, in Ferguson, the kids who lived there, Some young men linked arms around the convenience store and they were trying to defend the businesses from the looters who came from out of town to exploit and steal and burn things down because they thought it was funny and they didn't care.
And then along comes these ultra-woke white progressives from the suburbs who have no idea what it's like to live in poverty, cheering on the criminals who invaded this neighborhood and attacked the poor, marginalized people who lived there.
And I witnessed it.
james lindsay
That's in Ferguson, right?
tim pool
That was in Ferguson.
james lindsay
OK, yeah.
So what happened in Minneapolis is, you know, the person who's now the vice president coming out and saying this needs to continue.
Let's bail them all out of jail.
Here's a link to the fund.
tim pool
Kamala Harris.
james lindsay
Kamala Harris, yeah.
tim pool
And people thought that if she got elected, this is true, that she was the tough cop, the top cop.
She was going to come and put an end to this Antifa stuff, this violence.
And I remember talking to some people I know in the Chicago suburbs.
They were talking about why they were supporting Biden.
And I was like, don't you think that under Biden, these extremists are emboldened and the riots are going to get
unidentified
worse?
tim pool
And there were people who said, dude, Kamala is like, was like locking up innocent people.
Pretty sure she's going to go nuts.
And I was like, dude, she tried bailing these people out.
She solicited funds to get them out of jail.
And what's happening now?
They set the Mark O. Hatfield courthouse on fire again in Portland.
james lindsay
That's right.
Yeah.
And speaking of Portland, you know, I remember talking to some folks that I'm friends with in Portland and their big concern going into the election.
These are people who are lifelong Democrats or progressives or leftists or whatever, as Portland would do.
And their concern was, well, our city isn't protecting us, our state isn't protecting us.
You look at Ted Wheeler, the mayor, you look at—was it Kim Brown? Is that her name? The governor
of Oregon? Maybe I've got Kim wrong, but I think that's right. And then the last line of defense,
it's like Trump. And you know, his hands are tied. He can't even send in like federal troops
or the National Guard or anything. And then their concern was, you know, if Biden and Harris win,
now every level of government, whether city, state, or federal,
is going to do nothing to protect the city of Portland.
And now, like you said, the federal courthouse was on fire with people inside, right?
It was set on fire with people inside.
tim pool
Law enforcement.
And they had to rush out and try to put the fire out.
james lindsay
Yeah.
ian crossland
Do you think they should have sent the feds in?
Did Trump should have sent the feds in?
james lindsay
I mean, it's complicated, right?
The way that Antifa works, and a lot of people don't understand this, and if you say, oh, it's Black Lives Matter when it's not Antifa.
Sometimes it is.
There's this wing of Black Lives Matter that I think is called Black Lives Matter Revolution, but we can look that up.
That's the activist wing, the paramilitary wing.
The way that they work is what's called inducing mid-level violence.
A lot of people don't understand that there are levels of violence, or how violence works, and what mid-level violence is, is that kid the brothers in the back of the car. I'm not touching you.
I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. And what they want is you to either back down
and show weakness or to overreact.
And so we were referring to this over the summer as the Trump trap,
is that if he sent in federal troops, aha, he's a fascist.
He's sending in federal troops on American citizens. The narrative was there. This whole game
is driving narratives.
We see this with what's happening in Minneapolis now.
You see it there.
The entire operation of what's happening is a narrative-driven maneuver where you have a collusion between big media and the Democratic Party to seize power, and the narrative is the thing.
So the game was to put Trump in a lose-lose situation.
Oh, he's too weak.
He didn't do anything to protect anybody.
He didn't do anything.
But if he had done, the narrative would have flipped the other way.
Oh, he's a fascist.
See, we've been telling you for four years.
We've been conditioning you for four years.
Trump's a fascist.
He's going to seize power.
He's going to take over everything.
And now he's sending federal troops against American citizens.
That's exactly what would have happened.
So his hands were tied.
From what I understand, he was also told by military brass, if you make this order, we won't follow it.
And so what's he going to do?
Then he gets put in the same trap now with these other people.
He has to either force them or back down and look weak.
And the same narratives are going to be able to get spun out of this.
And this is what people don't understand.
And I mean, I don't want to make this like left, right or whatever, but the radical left understands narrative and political warfare, and nobody else does.
And so that's why they keep catching everybody with their pants down.
Political warfare is the most important concept you've never heard of.
And political warfare, our foreign adversaries reported a few decades ago, I think China and Russia both, had remarked that the American ability—because we rely so much on physical warfare, we have such high technology, we have badass jets, you know, the whole thing—we don't even think about political warfare anymore.
They said it's so degraded that it might as well not exist.
And this is what we're losing right now, is political warfare.
And the radical left is trained, they're excellent at it, they think about it constantly, and they put people in these traps, these mid-level violence traps.
tim pool
We're particularly susceptible to it because this country is classically liberal.
People need to understand what that means, classically liberal.
It doesn't mean conservative or liberal in the colloquial sense.
It means believing in freedom and government for, of, by the people, things like that.
So this country is a constitutional republic with philosophically liberal values.
Liberal as a term seems to have just gradually evolved to mean, I guess, Democrat.
ian crossland
But it was like John Locke that invented that.
tim pool
Right, right.
Classical liberalism is much more similar to, like, center-right libertarianism, if anything.
And then social liberalism is the civil rights kind of era, people who believed in free speech and respect for, you know, people and things like that.
So that came about.
But those of us who occupy this, like, moderate libertarian space, kind of left, kind of right, maybe, depending on who you are, Well, we're playing fair and we believe in respecting the rights and speech of our opponents.
And the problem then is I routinely stand up and defend leftists who get censored.
They gloat and laugh when it's us getting censored.
ian crossland
That's right.
tim pool
Or I will absolutely, and I did, defend Taylor Lorenz in the wake of this criticism Of her, because this woman from the New York Times put out a tweet saying that, you know, her life was literally destroyed by harassment.
I saw a tweet, and I thought it was a silly thing to say, but I'm not going to be bothered by yelling at someone on Twitter simply because I thought something they said was silly.
Otherwise, my whole day would be nothing but that.
Well, she started getting a lot of criticism, and I just ultimately said, look, I get it.
If you want to criticize the idea and the institution, please do so.
But, you know, getting into the weeds and getting into the drama, I think, is a waste of our time.
I absolutely tweeted in her defense multiple times, made videos in her defense, because I don't like the idea of people piling on and engaging in this culture war drama.
And then not only, I won't go into details, but now there's literally a harassment campaign being promoted by large, powerful institutions, putting insane and ridiculous lies out about me, talking about where I live and my home, and absolutely engaging in a targeted harassment campaign, and they're all laughing about it.
They're all laughing about it.
So I can stand on principle and say, like, let's not do this, guys.
And then what happens then is the people on, you know, the anti, you know, woke side, the people who believe in freedom say, it's warfare and we have no choice.
They started it.
That's the problem.
You know, I believe in a principle, and if my principles are, we don't do these tactics, then I am at an extreme disadvantage, where I can only get, I can sit back and turn the other cheek when they do these things to me, to my family, to my friends.
But if we dare speak up, you know, Glenn Greenwald points this out, they will come for you and they will use the weight of all of these institutions to destroy you.
And even when I still defend them, they don't care.
They are bad people.
james lindsay
No, this is why I say that, I mean, I've written an article, I think it had a podcast, both of these things that I actually called wokeness, but it could be radical leftism in general, or even any certain totalitarian strain.
I called it radical left wokeness in particular, I called it a virus on the liberal body politic.
It takes advantage of certain liberal, cultural, and ethical mores specifically to do exactly as you just described, to absolutely neuter the host's ability to defend itself.
Your immune system's not there.
I like to actually kind of say, frankly, I've kind of gotten hard about cancel culture, and my belief there is that the asymmetry is the story.
It's no longer—it's not culture war.
There's a power grab happening.
I'm not quite as far as the right, who are like, it's war, we have to act like war.
But the asymmetry is the story.
And so for me, until we adopt an attitude, if someone wants to cancel, you cancel them first, four or five times, because it won't take that many.
There is a realization that this is a mutually assured destruction.
They win.
that this horrific thing's going to continue, but what it requires is a suspension of one's
principles as a classical liberal, which puts us in that decision dilemma yet again.
And also, by the way, I don't know if it's called GFAS. Is it GFAS? Is that the George
Floyd Autonomous Zone? Is that what that's called? But that's the same thing, though, right? Just
wanted to point out, since we don't, so we don't lose it.
That's also mid-level violence, right?
And the city has decided to show weakness by giving them, whatever, half a million dollars.
Yeah. So their other option, of course, is to send in the troops and just bulldoze this.
tim pool
They won't do it. Apparently, it's been there for like nine months. They put in half a million
dollars now as part of this settlement, and someone just died there recently,
and the police couldn't get in to help this person.
So, I'll say this now.
My opinion very much changed in the Autonomous Zones.
I'm here for it.
You know what?
Roll with it.
I left these cities.
You know, it's funny.
I'm in the Philadelphia area previously, and I was like, there's too many riots, and they crossed the bridge, and they're coming into these neighborhoods.
So, I think it's time to start considering not being in these cities, because it's not about Antifa, it's not about Black Lives Matter, it's just about opportunistic violence when things start, you know, going crazy.
And we had a year of riots.
Well, sure enough, I think it was like a week after we didn't move out officially, we started the process and came down to the new location, riots broke out, mass shootings, there was like a hostage situation, and I'm like...
There you go, man.
I mean, homicides are on the rise.
Everywhere, yeah.
And so, I think people need to realize, I think the last group of people I'm worried about in a big city is people like Antifa.
I mean, a lot of these people are like suburban privileged, scrawny, you know, angsty youths.
I really don't care.
My bigger concern?
In Philadelphia, there was a bunch of armed dudes, like repeat offender criminals, occupying buildings and shooting at cops.
And you've got that kind of crime.
You've got the homicide skyrocketing.
You've got the gun crime skyrocketing.
You've got just theft across the board, even petty theft in these crimes in a lot of these cities, partly due to the demoralization of the police, the defunding of the police.
james lindsay
Hold on, hold on.
Nobody knows why it's happening.
tim pool
That's what I learned on the media.
james lindsay
Yeah, nobody knows.
Last summer, it was because it was summer.
And in the winter, maybe it was because it was winter, but I don't know.
But nobody knows.
tim pool
Yeah, they're like, you see, in the summer, It's warm, giving more people the opportunity to go out, and more people outside means more crime will happen.
In the winter it's darker, which means more opportunity to commit crime.
And then in the springtime, as the weather starts getting nicer, people want to go back outside again, so crime just exponentially increases non-stop.
So there's nothing to do with defunding the police, nothing to do with, uh, you know, a demoralization of police, just happenstance, just magic.
james lindsay
Nothing to do with telling them to stand down, nothing to do with DAs letting people off if they get arrested, nothing to do, nothing to do, nothing to do.
tim pool
Nothing to do with the city of Minneapolis putting half a million dollars into an anti-photonomist zone.
Hey, we're at that point now where it's like the autonomous zone has official government sanction, you know, in this place.
And it's, it's, it's remarkable.
So.
Where are the conservative or right-wing autonomous zones?
ian crossland
Right here in this house.
tim pool
Not really.
No, I'm talking about... Not at all.
What I'm specifically talking about was when are we going to start seeing right-wing dudes standing in the road, the U.S.
State Highway or whatever, that leads into a small town of a few thousand people, just doing checkpoints.
They did this in the Pacific Northwest when the fires kept starting.
And this is one of the things, you know, Joe Rogan, one of the things I'm disappointed with him about is that he had said on his show, he was wrong, he made a mistake, that Antifa was going around starting these fires.
He then made an apology where he said, none of it was true, it's not happening.
The issue was that there was a guy who was like a leftist who was caught starting the fires.
And there were other people, many, who were not politically affiliated who were just crazy firebug types.
So you need to explain to people, when these photos came out showing right-wing dudes with signs saying, you know, checkpoint, and then they were explaining people are starting fires, the media made it seem like conspiracy crackpots were tracking, were scared of Antifa.
Sure, some of them were.
There was one story about a leftist who got arrested.
But a lot of irregular people, like, I don't care who they are, or what their affiliation is, they started fires.
And there was a handful of people across the west coast that did.
So, you know, Joe's apology kind of just got it wrong.
But it's, you know, it's fine.
I don't think it was intentional.
But there are a lot of people on the left that absolutely engage in ongoing and sustained violence.
And over the past year, it's only worked.
james lindsay
So my point is... And they're opportunistic to that stuff.
tim pool
Right.
When are we going to see, in response to these autonomous zones, Right-wing groups just setting up in their communities.
There was a viral video where, you know, an Antifa group went into a neighborhood in Colorado, and a bunch of regular guys just chased them out.
And it did not go well for those guys, because actual working-class, like, union boys, they're not scrawny, suburbanite, privileged white kids.
No, they're men who went out and were basically like, welcome to my neighborhood.
And the Antifa people ran off.
So I'm wondering, if the city's gonna give half a million dollars to benefit the George Floyd memorial site at 30th and Chicago, which has become an autonomous zone lockdown where black-clad individuals threaten journalists and refuse to let police in, and the police haven't been in in months apparently, when do we see conservatives have a peaceful autonomous zone where they set up checkpoints?
james lindsay
I mean, you know the answer to that question.
tim pool
Never?
james lindsay
And the answer is because the left owns the political warfare, like I just said.
It's the most important concept you've never heard of.
And why?
What's going to happen?
Well, you know what the media is going to do immediately.
It could be as peaceful as peaceful.
It could be literally doing nothing but growing flowers, feeding the hungry, you know, bringing out whatever the most pro-social thing you can possibly imagine is.
And it's going to be a crazy right-wing militia group of KKK, blah, blah, blah, is what they're going to say about it.
It's going to be white supremacists, white supremacists, white supremacists.
And because those words, those ideas, it's not just that they have power, because that's one thing.
It's actually that they stick.
Like, the word conservative, as somebody who, like, is never identified as one, has been tainted almost to the point of, like, absolute, I guess, taint.
It's just completely poisoned.
And so, conservatives don't seem to understand this.
I put this on Twitter a while back, and I said that the meme is mightier than the AR-15.
And a bunch of gun guys were like, They'll show you mine, and I'm like, shut up.
unidentified
I don't care.
james lindsay
It's like, shut up.
It's not true.
The only AR-15 rounds that were fired, I don't know how many actually fired, but three hit people from Kyle Rittenhouse.
tim pool
Right, yeah, he had two to three rounds.
james lindsay
Yeah, so the only rounds that came out of an AR-15 were like those, like all summer.
Thereabouts, you know, approximately.
And why?
Because every law-abiding gun-owning citizen knew that the second somebody opened fire, guns are gone.
Or the bid to take guns is going to start.
The meme of gun-toting right-wingers.
And look what happened to Kyle.
That was brutal.
unidentified
Yep.
james lindsay
The meme was actually more powerful.
An AR-15 that you can't fire because you know it's going to get turned against you in the narrative war, and you're going to lose that political war over it.
That meme is more powerful than the gun.
ian crossland
It's an ancient thought.
The pen is mightier than the sword.
james lindsay
Yeah, that's what I was, I mean, I was riffing.
ian crossland
But it's an ancient idea.
unidentified
Listen, listen.
james lindsay
I didn't quite think of that one myself.
tim pool
I'll tell you what the real divide is, right?
So you've always, you've always been like a fairly liberal person.
james lindsay
Yeah.
tim pool
I have as well.
james lindsay
Yeah.
tim pool
And Ian, I think you are pretty like... I used to be super liberal.
I mean, super liberal.
ian crossland
Like, free everyone, we don't need weapons, everything can be fine, just pie in the sky.
Let everyone in, we can help everyone.
All the time.
Crazy.
tim pool
When I was younger, I was an anarcho-punk skateboarder.
I could play Baby I'm an Anarchist on the guitar, and I still can from Against Me, and I know a lot of the Against Me songs.
I love that band.
And, you know, these days it's all changed quite a bit, but the one thing that I think defines the actual war, the culture war, is those who read beyond the headlines and those who don't.
That's it.
There's really good examples of this if you go online, and you can actually see it.
So I'm actually interested in maybe hiring a researcher to start tracking this as a data point, to go to the subreddits of prominent progressive YouTube personalities, and read the comments, and then actually mark them for, like, Who read Beyond the Headline and who didn't?
And then go to conservative ones and do it.
Because what I've noticed recently is that as I've been browsing the subreddits of several prominent progressive YouTubers, they don't actually read the articles.
They'll comment on the headlines.
And while it's true for most people, when I go to conservative, you know, sites, not so much.
And this is also exemplified in left-wing memes about conservatives.
So there was one that I saw On Reddit, where they were mocking the conservative subreddit because the conservative subreddit made a point about not allowing billionaires the ability to manipulate and control our elections and big tech and things like that.
And they were mocking conservatives as if the conservatives were the ones who did it to themselves.
And it's like, I don't understand.
If you actually read what they're talking about, they're agreeing with you.
Like, you've convinced them.
Or do you not agree with him anymore?
The issue was, the caricature of the conservative from the headline does not accurately represent the real world.
And that's true for libertarians, be it left or right, or centrists, or whatever.
And so what I've found is, why is it that the people who would follow you, James, or would watch this show are more likely to be informed?
Is it because of this show?
No, I don't think so.
It's because of the nature of the individuals who would watch this show.
james lindsay
Yeah, I agree.
tim pool
The people who go and turn on CNN and hear Wolf Blitzer say, a bunch of white, you know, white supremacists stormed the Capitol, they go, wow, and they walk away.
And then you have the headline that appears on Twitter and it says, far-right white supremacists storm, you know, you know, let's do a better example.
You'll turn on CNN and they'll say, the white supremacist group, the Proud Boys, you know, their leader was arrested and they'll go, wow.
And you'll see the headline, White Supremacist Leader of Proud Boys Arrested.
And people will see the headline and go, wow.
And then people who are more inclined to watch shows like this will say, okay, click it and see a picture of a black man as the leader of the Proud Boys and go, wait, what?
Something doesn't make sense here.
And that's like the red pill moment.
james lindsay
No, that's exactly right.
tim pool
You actually start reading the news.
james lindsay
That's Red Pill Level 1 right there.
That's where you see the news, the headline especially, is lying to you.
And then you start finding the buried leads, and you start finding the inconsistencies in the stories, you start noticing that the reporting doesn't match reality, and then all of a sudden you're like, wait a minute.
And what it's all been framed up to be is, like, now you're a conservative.
unidentified
Right.
james lindsay
Because you've read, right?
But you're not a conservative.
You're actually somebody who engages information, like, fully or at least more than almost zero.
tim pool
I'll tell you what else is really interesting, too, in this whole debacle.
There's another level to this.
Those who are algorithmically fed red-pilled type information countering the narrative, and those who are actually engaged with the content in general.
What happens is, there are a lot of people, so I was talking to some guy I know today, and he said, he's like, listen man, you used to be really good at everything, and now all you do is just basically, you're like a hardcore Trump supporter, and it's all you do is just always, always, always protecting Trump, And I was like, do you watch my show?
And I was like, because we do defend him, we do criticize him.
He's like, I only ever see from you defending Trump.
And I said, have you considered that Facebook and YouTube are only giving you the videos I produce out of the, you know, three and a half hours per day that I produce?
They're only showing you the Trump article, you know, the Trump defense ones, and they're ignoring The times we've talked about him when we were critical of him on war and John Bolton and things like that.
I think we said John Bolton 5,000 times and criticized Trump for hiring a bunch of dumb people.
Certainly we defended him and I did vote for him.
That's true.
But there's a lot of people who were Trump supporters who only ever got from YouTube the videos that were like, Trump isn't that bad.
And then the times when I was like, here's what I don't like about Trump and here's what I'm mad about, it doesn't go to them because they're less likely to click it.
So YouTube isn't incentivized to share those videos.
Then you'll get people on the left who are only fed that content because it's more likely to be watched by Trump supporters.
And then they're like, this is all he produces.
But then the people who actually engage with the content, who would watch every episode, I see them commenting online and they're like, what are you talking about?
He criticizes them all the time, especially Ian.
And he's like, when Luke and Dave Smith were on the show, it was like two hours of just nothing but ragging on Trump.
ian crossland
Awesome.
tim pool
But people don't get that because the algorithm doesn't give it to them.
ian crossland
Trump has a lot to be ragged, not to take it too far away from what you're saying, but all these people have enough to be critical about, I think.
james lindsay
I mean, sure.
And this was actually one of the points that I raised as one of the main reasons I voted for Trump was because the media is like relentlessly, like totally, actually unfairly critical of Trump constantly.
And they were at the time covering up the Hunter Biden laptop story.
It's like, There's no evidence they're going to be critical of Biden.
They're actually covering up a story that's critical of Biden right now.
And I was like, if the media, I mean, the media's function, the point of a free press is to be able to criticize power in a free country.
ian crossland
Yep.
james lindsay
And if that's not happening by whatever set of, you know, for whatever set of reasons, then you have to become skeptical of the side that benefits from that.
reason that I wanted to vote for Trump.
ian crossland
Seems like a symbiotic reason, like the clicks, like you were saying, it's a
clickbait thing, so they're making money off of it, and it's also politically
infusive for this liberal economic order, basically.
james lindsay
Well, right.
Plus, I think Tim was describing that there's an echo chamber aspect to the
algorithm. The algorithm gets better and better and better.
It's driven by machine learning.
So it gets better and better and better at predicting what kinds of things you will click on and therefore play the first five seconds of an ad of, that they make some fraction of a penny off of, unless you accidentally click on the ad and then they make some slightly more fraction of a penny.
tim pool
Accidentally click on it?
james lindsay
I mean, has anybody ever actually clicked on one of those things on purpose?
unidentified
Not lately.
tim pool
Unless I missed the skip it button.
I click on ads on Instagram all the time.
lydia smith
Yeah, Instagram's dangerous.
tim pool
Dude, there's cool stuff.
There was one where it was like a mini lightsaber.
james lindsay
All I can tell you then.
tim pool
It was a torch, but it was on like a, like a, like it was awesome.
james lindsay
All I can tell you then is that your algorithms are getting to know you very well.
tim pool
Dude, they showed me this solar torch thing.
It's called whatever.
And it's got like a jet, like super long.
And he like melts through a tin can.
And I was like, I have to buy that.
james lindsay
That is sort of a seriously man toy that every man does need.
Like, could you send me that ad?
ian crossland
There is one here.
tim pool
But literally, I was just like, I can get a torch faster.
So I just went and bought a torch.
And I was like, cool.
And then we have fires in the back sometimes.
So I was like, I'll just use a torch.
james lindsay
No, that's fun.
But no, the truth is, though, that the whole point is that the algorithm is supposed to learn what you'll click on because it drives their ad revenues.
There doesn't have to be a nefarious plot.
You don't have to have whoever the directors of YouTube in these shadowy rooms saying, oh, we're going to turn this all left, all left, all left.
It doesn't have to be that.
These algorithms are going to feed people echo chambers.
And that's how you end up getting like conspiracy theories, like whether it's QAnon or BlueAnon or whatever Anon or WhaleAnon I made up on Twitter.
tim pool
WhaleAnon?
james lindsay
Oh, that was when Twitter, you know, they made that was a bird bird watcher thing, you know, and they put that they put a fake tweet.
I don't know if it still exists, but they made that like fake news is everywhere on Twitter and they put, you know, a sample fake tweet and it said whales.
Whales are not real.
They're robots paid for by the government to control you.
And I was like, this is whaling on.
And so I'm like making memes, like they look like a queue and there's a whale though with a tail.
tim pool
So here's what happens.
There was a study a few years ago where they tracked various networks on Twitter and then created a visualization.
james lindsay
I saw that.
tim pool
They found that digital marketing overlaps with the resistance, the establishment democratic position.
That means the... What is that?
Hashtag?
james lindsay
Hashtag the resistance.
Yeah.
tim pool
Right, right, right.
james lindsay
Yeah.
tim pool
So what happens is Pepsi and Coke and Oreo and whatever big brands, Nabisco, their ad campaigns live in the same universe as anti-Trump Democrats.
So their advertisings are crafted around this core group of individuals, which means if they see a video where someone's sitting there like with their eyes half closed and they go, I like Donald Trump, they go, get our ad!
Hats off that video!
And then Google says, okay, okay, okay.
And then Google goes, we just lost a $50 million contract.
What happened?
The guy said he likes Trump.
Okay, well ban it, ban it.
We're losing $50 million.
There it is.
There it is.
james lindsay
I mean, I can tell you something a little scarier than that.
I happen to know some people who work in, you know, AI development and all of this.
And so this guy called me a while back and he's like kind of big into all this.
He's like a PhD in it or whatever.
And he's like, yeah, I don't know if you know that they're actually, you know, you have machine learning or whatever, the algorithms and how they work.
They actually, the people who are behind that, this, you know, you have to, with a machine learning algorithm, it's like the machine makes a guess and then humans are training it by saying, yeah, it was a good guess or a bad guess, right?
In many, not always, but in a lot of cases.
They're literally using intersectionality as the guide to decide what the right and wrong answers are.
And so it's like, you know, oh, was this white supremacy?
You know, it's intersectionality is how they're using to decide that kind of stuff.
And that's what's getting baked into those algorithms.
Meanwhile, they publish articles with the Iron Law of Quote Projection saying white supremacy is on all of the algorithms.
We have to put more intersectionality into the algorithms.
tim pool
A few years ago, I was hanging out with you and Helen Pluck Rose and Peter Boghossian.
And I got into an argument with Peter.
james lindsay
That's a nice surprise.
tim pool
And it was because I was saying that the media was creating this.
It was social media and the algorithms, and he was adamant that it was coming from the universities.
I think both are true.
james lindsay
Both are true.
tim pool
But the point I made was this.
I literally watched this happen.
I experienced this.
I started working in digital media spaces end of 2011.
I officially started working for Vice in 2013.
I went to Disney.
I watched how they implemented these things, why they wanted to do it.
They explained it to me, and I explained to them why they were wrong.
But what happened was, it's very, very simple.
It's a simple algorithmic equation.
When Facebook started rising in prominence in attention and generating ad revenue, they started to notice that police brutality videos were skyrocketing in viewership.
Something about it was just getting more shares and more attention, and there's like a viral song, this is what happens when you call the cops.
There were websites dedicated to nothing but police brutality videos in the Alexa Top 500.
Absolutely crazy.
All they would do is just aggregate police brutality videos.
Now, sidetrack, I'm sure a lot of young people who are swimming in that are now activists saying defund the police because their whole brains were mashed by it.
But something else happened.
If you made a post and said, police brutality, the algorithm recognized people love this stuff.
Send it to them more.
But then something else happened.
There were also videos about social justice, racism, sexism.
The algorithm also said, man, people love these videos.
Send it to everyone.
And then something magical happened.
Racism skyrocketing, police brutality skyrocketing, and then all of a sudden someone made racist police brutality.
And then if a racism video would get X views and a police brutality video would get Y views, a police brutality and racism segment would get XY views.
Well, I should say x plus y, because I don't want to assume it's exponential.
ian crossland
Or xy minus 20%, or some algorithm of increase.
tim pool
It would be an increase.
And so this created a space.
When digital news outlets started getting tons of venture capital funding, they started to realize this is how you make money.
A good example is there's an expo on mike.com.
Are you familiar with mike.com?
james lindsay
Yeah.
It still exists.
tim pool
Right.
When they started, they were libertarian.
They were Ron Paul libertarian, apparently.
So it's been reported.
And it was because Ron Paul was very popular online.
The Ron Paul Love Revolution.
So they were like, OK, let's write these articles.
Then they started to play that game.
At least it's been reported this.
I'm going to avoid litigation.
So this is what I read, and I could be wrong.
But my understanding is that they started Putting out articles on social justice and then creating formulas where it was like, you know, X has a Y problem and then all of a sudden combining these different things was getting more and more views and traffic because if you had a community of people who watched police brutality and a community of people who watched social justice, you mixed those communities together and you maximized your viewership.
This pushed intersectionality as the perfect ideology.
All of a sudden, there's this one article from Vice, I can't remember the exact title, but it was like, trans women of color being beaten by police proves why we need Black Lives Matter.
And it was just like every possible keyword mashed into a headline to get as much traffic as possible to maximize revenue.
And so long as advertisers don't mind being on these psychotic, I mean, this is like, When you read these articles, like there was a joke meme where a guy is like sitting in a room and he's trying to write a name for a Vice article.
He's trying to come up with a Vice article.
So he pulls an adult toy out of a box and throws it at the wall and it just sticks.
And then he's like transgender ketamine dealers of Columbia or something, just random.
That's basically what was happening.
And then the advertisers are like, I'm okay with this.
And so as long as that system functioned and advertisers didn't care, it was fine.
And then they found their boogeyman with Trump.
We saw Gamergate happen.
This was, I mean, the start of the culture war, it's a very interesting thing.
And I'm not, I can't get into history, mostly because it's very complicated.
You know, I think the Gamergate was the first battle.
But what I think happened was these video game websites.
What do you write about?
You have a job.
Your job is to write five articles per day.
Or three articles per day.
You've already wrote every walkthrough for, you know, the new Zelda game.
What do you write?
No new game coming out until the holiday season.
Speedrunner did a speedrun?
Alright.
unidentified
Oh!
tim pool
Video games.
Racist.
Ooh, yeah.
And sexist.
And anti-gay.
KKK go away.
Put it all in the headline and we got a hit article.
And then every day they had to do that.
And then all of a sudden that's what gaming became.
james lindsay
You say the sexist thing too and you put like a picture of like a bikini anime chick or something like that.
And then like you're also just getting guys that are like, oh yeah, look at the chick in bikini.
Because even though it's a cartoon, click.
unidentified
Whoops.
ian crossland
You'd have, like, a sexist article, a racist article, an anti-gay article, and then you'd make the sexist, racist, anti-gay article, and then those writers would go to other companies and write an anti-gay article over there that would enable them to, you know, reference it.
tim pool
Game of Telephone.
Game of Telephone.
ian crossland
So, it happened fast, too.
james lindsay
Yeah, big time.
That's true.
tim pool
Because people were so hungry, and they desperately want this confirmation bias, and they love tribalism, but what happened is You'd get one article, you know, where this outlet would write some nonsensical drama about completely not just total BS.
Video gamer accused of, you know, oh, they're stealing $100 from their ex.
And then.
People would click on it, and they'd be like, I can't believe he really did that!
And the story nowhere in it would actually say it actually happened.
But then another outlet would pick it up and be like, I can't believe so-and-so was accused of doing this.
Then the next article would say, multiple reports now, you know, citing that this happened.
And then it loops all the way back around, and they create a circular feedback loop of sourceless garbage.
And the whole thing is just algorithmically trying to generate revenue.
Here's the best part, though.
They've created this feedback loop where they're basically parasites, right?
You know, I think the conversations we have are imperfect.
We're not the best.
We engage in culture war stuff too, and nobody is perfect.
But I think we try to have legitimate conversations, really break down these ideas to the best of our abilities.
What they do is they just leech and parasite.
So recently we had this journalist from Axios got a job at Teen Vogue as the editor-in-chief.
Well, the people who work there wrote a letter trying to get that editor-in-chief cancelled for 10-year-old tweets.
In response, a seven-figure ad deal was pulled, frozen.
The article said they lost it, and then it said it was frozen because of the controversy.
So this company Teen Vogue, which is supposed to be a fashion magazine, and now it's like writing about Marx and social justice and critical theory, hires on people who are good at writing about intersectionality because it gets a lot of clicks, and then those people attack their own company, costing their own company seven figures.
So, perhaps there's some optimism in all of this, in that these people are just consuming themselves and will eventually just be a withered husk in the corner of nothing.
james lindsay
Yeah, I mean, that is actually the hope, and that's sort of the mentality behind the people that are so-called accelerationists.
They want to kind of encourage this to happen faster or to get people to see it.
I'll just take the story that you told just to kind of complete, since we mentioned scholarship and that's what I do, I can plug the scholarship into your story, because the majority of those people, you know, you said they work for a video game magazine or whatever.
Some of them did.
A lot of them are freelancers.
In both cases, these people probably studied something like media studies, especially the freelancers.
What was the joke?
You know, we're talking GamerGate was 2014, right?
tim pool
Yeah.
james lindsay
So what was the joke?
The joke was, you know, you get a degree in something like gender studies or media studies or something and you're going to be a barista.
No, well, probably you might be, but you're also going to be a freelancer because you think you're a great writer and you have great insights.
So what are they going to start writing these sexist, racist, homophobic, blah, blah, blah, you know, keyword articles about?
Well, they're going to start infusing that theory.
And then various touch points happen in society that then mainstream it.
But what's happening is these bloggers or freelance journalists, I should say, are essentially starting to infuse that theory into pop culture.
And that theory has been cranking for 50 years saying, you know, by the way, guys, Society actually is secretly fascist, it's secretly racist, it's secretly sexist.
Critical race theory's kind of central thesis could be boiled down to racism never gets better, it just hides itself better.
And then you have these little cutesy, you know, graduates in these stupid degrees become freelance writers and then it's keyword city, right?
It's buzzword city, racist video game, racist movie, racist Dr. Seuss, racist your mom, whatever it happens to be.
And one thing after another, and then these are the people who are poised to write these little fluff piece.
Well, they're like, it's like the hit version of a fluff piece, right?
No content.
It's like, it's like a, it's like a bundle of thorns or something instead of a fluff.
But these are the people who are going to write these things and they start injecting the ideas of systemic racism and systemic sexism and all of these kind of critical theory
ideas into the pop culture through those mediums. And that if you go way back, I mean, that was
actually Gramsci's plan, not to get heavy in theory, but Antonio Gramsci, the I'm supposed to
always say Albanian Italian, I said that he was Italian, which is true. And these Italian
people who wrote me these emails are like, call him Albanian Italian, please don't stick him. Don't
make it. He was brilliant. Actually.
The guy was probably one of the sharpest minds of the 20th century.
Unfortunately, he was also a communist, and he was the one who realized that you have to undermine the pillars of culture in order to take over a society, and he identified those as being in religion, family, media, education, and law.
So that media pillar That's what the goal was he said what you have to do is you have to get inside if you want to take a pillar of culture down you get inside of it and you create a counter hegemony within the existing hegemony and start making it grow and basically when you say parasite that's what you're talking about it's get latch on and then grow the strength of that thing like like a Sith or something I don't know I'm not a Star Wars you're the one with the torches but
But I mean, that's the idea, right, is to get in there and to start infusing these critical ideas.
This is a plan that's been like cooking up scholarly for 100 years that had actually no real way to work until all of a sudden we cooked up this.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, the last, I don't know, three months.
Social media and then, I don't know what to call it, but like, just kind of like grubby media.
You know, like, you know, little grubby articles like these different... Gawker was like just a propaganda place or whatever.
It got taken down.
tim pool
Games of telephone articles that regurgitate the same thing written by somebody else.
james lindsay
Grub media.
tim pool
It's called churnalism.
james lindsay
Churnalism, yeah.
ian crossland
Or urinalism, according to Jeremy Hanby, the quartering today.
tim pool
Urinalism!
ian crossland
You said that the Sith were parasitic.
I like that, because the Sith Apprentice, parasite off the Master, grows strong and then kills the Master.
james lindsay
I mean, right there.
I mean, it's like the whole quarterstips plan.
tim pool
It's basically, you know, Emperor Palpatine taking over, becoming the Chancellor, and everyone cheers for it.
james lindsay
I mean, there you go.
tim pool
But I'm convinced more and more regular people hate all of this.
james lindsay
Oh, totally.
I would bet.
I was talking to somebody the other day about it, and the guy said, I think that we're in the majority.
And I was like, we're not just in a majority.
We're not even in a super majority.
I bet it's north of 90%.
Yeah.
North of 90% of people, at best, to the degree that they're aware of it or annoyed by it or insulted by it or think it's ridiculous.
tim pool
And cowardly.
james lindsay
But that's the problem.
ian crossland
I'll get to a point where I'll have a clear mind.
I'll wake up in the morning and I'll put on like Facebook or something.
unidentified
That's a mistake.
ian crossland
I'll feel like I'm being twisted and destroyed into some dark tunnel and I'll have to stop and put it away and leave.
james lindsay
I mean, it's a formal term that comes out of Jacques Derrida on Postmodern Philosophy, but I used to call Twitter a deconstruction machine.
It deconstructs anything you put.
You put, for myself, a video of myself using a sword.
Immediately people add Benny Hill music and try to make a joke out of it.
You can't make a joke out of something I think is awesome.
It's just not going to work.
Like, I know I look awesome, just shut up, you know?
Somebody changed it into an eggplant, a giant eggplant instead of a giant sword.
I'm like, I just downloaded that and that's like a meme I share now.
tim pool
Yeah, that's fun.
james lindsay
But no, anything you put on the internet is going, on Twitter, on social media I should say, not the internet, is going to get, I'm so stuck on the German now, it's going to get Alf Gehoven almost immediately.
It's going to get deconstructed.
It's going to get taken apart.
It's going to get turned into this dialectical soup, where it gets chewed up and spit back at you into broken pieces, like you said, that eventually become the grist that goes into that closed circle of garbage media.
And this is actually the process.
Because that crap on Twitter becomes the article that becomes your Wikipedia page.
Right, yeah.
tim pool
I actually made some food like this once.
I have a meat processor.
And I put in a nice, fine steak.
And then I put in some fish and some chicken and it became a goop.
And then I fed all the goop right back in.
And then I fed all the goop right back in and it became a grayish paste.
And that's basically what it is.
Totally, I have no idea what it is, but apparently you're supposed to eat it.
james lindsay
It's chicken nuggets.
tim pool
Chicken nuggets.
Well, I mean, it was just meat medley, meat punch.
The Wikipedia thing though, you're absolutely right.
james lindsay
Dude, do you know what was on my Wikipedia for a while?
It's fairly new.
I've only had a Wikipedia entry for a few months, and right off the bat, somebody said, like on my Wikipedia, it said, you know, James Lindsay portrays himself as a serious commentator.
He wrote a book, How to Have Impossible Conversations, and yet he goes on Twitter and makes your mom jokes.
That was on my Wikipedia.
And then that got taken off.
And then somebody else, I don't know who put it, I'm assuming a fan of mine, went on and put that James Lindsay has gigantic balls of brass.
That was on my Wikipedia for a while.
unidentified
Wikipedia is the meat goop.
tim pool
This is probably bad in the bigger picture, but I'm here for it.
Do you know the Zeppelin story?
For like seven years, my Wikipedia claimed that I invented a Zeppelin.
at some kind of autonomous flying camera on a Zeppelin and It was because I guess there was some writer who overheard
just like We were having like a hackerspace kind of conversation
about crazy ideas And then somehow they wrote that I actually invented a Zeppelin
and then it that's it It's fact and no matter how many times I was like, bro, I
didn't invent a Zeppelin man It's like we're talking about I bought a consumer drone and
me and my buddy hacked the drone to broadcast live footage footage during Occupy Wall Street.
It was like one of the first times, I think maybe the first time, there was a live news broadcast via drone.
We weren't looking for a big corporation, so it was just online, but it was amazing.
I was like flying a drone over this Occupy protest, and then it couldn't fly that long.
We talked about a bunch of crazy ideas and apparently an article came out that was total BS that wouldn't correct it and didn't want to correct it because it was a fun story.
And then Wikipedia was like, Tim Pool invented a drone.
And I was like, I didn't.
And they're like, too bad.
You're not reliable.
So you know what?
I'm here for it.
unidentified
I think.
james lindsay
That was the Tim Pool blimp is what that was, right?
Or the good Tim blimp.
tim pool
It said Zeppelin.
It literally said Zeppelin modification or something.
james lindsay
Tim Zeppelin.
tim pool
I want to preserve the important cultural institutions that have helped bring about civil rights, real social justice.
But at this point, I think the entire system, it's already falling apart.
The Jenga Tower is in free fall.
james lindsay
That's the perfect metaphor.
It's these guys are just knocking pegs out and it's only a matter of time until the thing falls down.
ian crossland
So you think accelerationism is where it's at?
tim pool
Maybe a little bit, but not necessarily.
james lindsay
It's very targeted.
I think I know where you're going.
tim pool
Well, here's what I'm going to say.
Wikipedia is fundamentally broken and it's extremely susceptible to attack right now.
But there is a I wouldn't call it accelerationism, but an opportunity to prove the paradox.
james lindsay
Ridicupedia.
tim pool
Well, so here's what happened, right?
I tweeted, impeach the Queen.
We talked about it the other night.
And a News Guard certified website wrote an article saying Tim Pool calls for the impeachment of Queen Elizabeth.
People supported him saying, let's convene Congress.
Like this person who wrote it was one of the worst journalists imaginable.
Didn't understand you can't impeach the Queen.
That Congress has no power, even if you could, to interfere with another country's monarch.
Wrote the article!
And then here's the best part.
On Wikipedia, they're actually arguing over whether or not it should be included.
And for a while, somebody put it in, and they tried to take, like, Tim Poole has called, you know, in 2021, Tim Poole called for the impeachment of Queen Elizabeth, and then people are like, we have to put it in, and people are like, you can't put it in, and then someone actually linked the video where I was laughing, saying, I made the whole thing up!
I know how this system works, and I can make a joke, and then Wikipedia must treat it as fact.
So you have one faction saying, we know he's basically screwing around, and it was a joke tweet.
There's a wink meme on it.
And then someone saying, we don't have the right to choose what we determine is true or false.
That's original research, and it's banned on Wikipedia.
You have to go by the sources, and NewsGuard has certified the source.
The whole thing is broken.
james lindsay
That's totally broken.
Ridicipedia, that's the name of this project.
There's a lot of journalists who will write whatever you tweet as law.
name your project, Ridicupedia, turn it ridiculous. You talk about how Twitter and everything. This is
a deconstruction. It's like a counter deconstruction. Like they want to build a counter hegemony,
I want to do a counter deconstruction. So there's a lot of journalists who will write whatever you
tim pool
tweet as law. And so if you engage on Twitter seriously and say things that you actually mean,
they'll write articles about what you say, or they'll take things out of context to make it
worse. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm all for Biden, baby.
100%.
unidentified
100%.
tim pool
Biden 2024!
Joe Biden.
I'm tweeting things like, you know, I believe in you, Joe.
I tweeted when I was like, if we all cheer for Joe, maybe he'll send us the next $600.
I believe in you.
And so at a certain point.
james lindsay
You have to do jazz hands for Joe.
tim pool
Well, here's the important thing.
All of my tweets are 100% serious.
That's it.
That's all I care about.
Um, I think I've crafted a strategy that creates a paradox that cannot be countered in any reasonable capacity.
I'm sure there will be attempts, but the ultimate issue is this.
I tweeted, abolish the ATF.
I tweeted, abolish the IRS.
Which one of those, if any, are my actual opinions?
I also tweeted, you know, there was a study saying that, you know, Fauci says something like COVID lockdowns, or they said something like, we don't know if there's ever going to be an end to the pandemic.
And so then I said, okay, then release all the restrictions.
There's actual opinions in there.
Which one's the real one?
Maybe you can come to one of my, you know, podcasts and try and figure out how I really feel about things.
Do I really want to abolish the ATF?
I said abolishing the police is wrong.
What's my real opinion?
Go ahead and figure it out, journalists.
You won't be able to, which means any tweet ever used by any publication from me will be them publishing complete bunk BS because you will not be able to determine which one of my tweets is real.
james lindsay
Yeah, I do this, only I change my name when I do it.
You know, I often change my name on Twitter.
So, this doesn't inspire me, by the way.
I gotta change my name on Twitter back to King of Your Mom, so that some journalist puts that in my Wikipedia.
But he really does think he's the king of your mom.
Because I am.
But no, I changed my name, though, to Lames Ginzy.
Lames Ginzy is my troublemaking, like, if I'm gonna say, you know, very smart opinions, if I'm a very, let's see, James Lindsay is a deplorable or something now.
And so Lames Ginzy is my very smart person persona.
He has all the correct opinions.
tim pool
But by doing that, you're making sure they know which one is the real and which one is the... Well, no, no, no.
james lindsay
The problem here is that when you change your name, it changes your name on all your tweets.
So I do it and I make the tweets and like an hour later, it doesn't make any sense.
So then I have the same paradox.
I just throw a wink and a nod to my peeps that actually pay close attention to me.
tim pool
I'm also going to tweet a lot of nice things about lefties.
ian crossland
Good.
tim pool
Just to be nice.
james lindsay
My favorite thing to tweet about lefties is what the president said.
I don't know which president.
A president.
Some president said that you can't hate the haters and losers.
You gotta love them because they can't help that they were born effed up.
ian crossland
It's true, love your enemy.
I mean, it does help, even to win a war, if you love the enemy, you'll be better served at destroying them, you know, if you were fighting them.
tim pool
I look at it this way, you know, I was approaching everything wrong.
For the longest time, I knew that my word was meaningless for Wikipedia and for these journalists.
There was, you know, like the Zeppelin thing should have been a really strong wake-up call for me.
No matter how many times I kept screaming I didn't make a Zeppelin, people were like, the guardian, I think it was the guardian that wrote it.
So like, shut up, you're not allowed.
And so it's like, okay, why don't I just give ridiculous quotes to journalists and let them write things and then have that be... Could you imagine the historical record?
james lindsay
I did that to Zach Beauchamp whenever he interviewed me about the Grievance Studies Affair.
He called me and it was like the most leading conversation ever.
He was like, wow, that's very interesting.
I learned something new.
I had no idea that was true.
Could you tell me a lot more about that?
And I was like, I'm just going to plant quotes and see what he publishes.
And he wrote the best article ever.
I love it.
I mean, it's awful to me, but it's so funny because I know what I said and I know what I wanted.
tim pool
It's like nonsensical.
james lindsay
He published things I wanted him to publish.
unidentified
Right.
james lindsay
So I owned him and he doesn't even, to this day, he has no idea that I absolutely owned him on that article.
tim pool
I think there's two things people can do they don't realize.
Become active on Wikipedia.
And then the interesting thing was watching people on Wikipedia who are like, they have legitimate accounts and they're longstanding editors arguing over the philosophy and merits and the rules of Wikipedia.
And it just becomes absolute, it's bedlam.
Like, you can't use original research, but Tim Poole admitted it, I don't care if he admitted it, and they're just fighting.
james lindsay
Yeah, this is beautiful.
unidentified
What are you gonna do?
james lindsay
Because, I mean, it reduces Wikipedia to absurdum.
Like, it's not even like it's an unreliable source, like all your college professors might have told you, or your high school teachers, or whoever.
It's like, it's actually, it's actually just reduced to absurdity.
tim pool
Yep.
One of my favorite things is that, like, I haven't taken Twitter seriously in a really long time.
james lindsay
Oh no, that's key.
You can't take Twitter seriously.
You're doing it wrong.
All these people are mad at me.
They're like, what are you doing on Twitter?
I'm like, having fun.
ian crossland
It's like a sewer pipe.
Like, as fun as a sewer pipe.
I mean, it's not like... That's what I used to say.
It just sends information out, which is in the form of whatever you want to send through it.
james lindsay
You said it was a sewer that followed you back in the day, but my other buddy said, no, it's more like a dumpster fire you pack up in a backpack and take with you.
unidentified
And I thought that was the best way to ever pocket.
tim pool
Accelerationism, I think, is the wrong idea.
Typically, people use it to refer to physical chaos and violent stuff.
But I think screwing with the press to prove the failures and the paradox of these systems, I wouldn't call that accelerationism.
I would call that...
It's almost like sabotage.
ian crossland
Well, it is.
Sabotage can be a form of acceleration.
Like if a dam is cracking and you're like, dude, that dam's going to break and kill millions of people.
So you go and you smash the dam.
You accelerate what's going to happen anyway, because you're like, let's just get it over with.
But then you're the one that's blamed for destroying the dam.
tim pool
I'm not talking about acceleration.
What I'm talking about is, so long as the media goes unchecked, it will not be a dam that's about to break.
It will last forever and it will grow and then make lots of money.
ian crossland
I think it has to break.
I don't think the truth always lasts.
unidentified
not okay so until they drive people to kill each other see my usual answer with
james lindsay
that is the truth is always gonna win in the end right so it will break but the
Soviet Union lasted 70 years I don't think that's a long time of so I don't
ian crossland
think the truth is last I think the winner of the war writes the history I
james lindsay
mean reality is still gonna bat last you could The lie only maintains so long.
And whether you know what actually happened or not is a different question.
But the dam, which I'm thinking of it as the ability to continue maintaining the lie, that will give, and eventually the truth will out.
But the problem is that, A, like I said, the Soviet Union lasted 70 years of not that good, to put it mildly, and China is still going.
tim pool
Yep.
james lindsay
It's been a long time.
It's still not great.
And simultaneously, you know, when you're talking about something like a cultural revolution, which is frankly what we're in the midst of, accelerationism can push people like you're talking about a dam breaking and millions of people dying.
Yes.
Tens of millions of people died in the cultural revolution.
You are correct.
And accelerating toward that rather than trying to figure out a way to divert the course of the river is probably not the best strategy.
tim pool
I have an analogy.
It's like you're in a car, right?
And you're, like, on an abandoned train track, and you can see that up ahead, the bridge is out.
And if you try and slow down, you might just go off the cliff.
But if you slam that gas, baby, you could jump the gorge and then...
Or, or reach, what, 88 miles an hour?
james lindsay
That's what I'm going to say.
You got to hit 88 miles per hour.
ian crossland
Back in time when the bridge was still there.
Yeah.
unidentified
No, no.
ian crossland
Forward in time.
tim pool
When the bridge was completed.
ian crossland
Even better.
tim pool
But you need to have like a pink... Actually, that's a really interesting... In Back to the Future, the bridge wasn't there yet.
And they hit 88 and then hit the future where the bridge did exist.
ian crossland
And it wasn't about going super fast.
It was just the right speed.
tim pool
So nobody died.
There was no destruction.
james lindsay
So perhaps if we... Oh no, the train went off though and blew up.
tim pool
You're right.
james lindsay
There was some destruction.
But the train was blowing up anyway because that crazy chemist put those pink logs in there that were blowing its gaskets and stuff, right?
Great Scott!
So here's the analogy.
1.21 gigawatts.
tim pool
We're all in the woke train and if we don't get it to the right speed, The DeLorean won't make it to the future where the bridge is complete and we can all live peacefully, but the woke train is gonna go off no matter what.
james lindsay
That's correct, actually.
I think that's a good way.
tim pool
Pop culture reference!
james lindsay
I was like, this is going right off the gorge.
No, and then it landed.
You landed that, Tim.
tim pool
There's a lot of progressive pundits who get really triggered by pop culture references.
james lindsay
Yeah.
tim pool
I'm like, you know, like you don't have to like it. I don't care. Probably a lot of people might not like it one point
21 gigawatts regular people Understand pop culture and it's interesting to me
Who are these progressives who like don't watch movies and don't watch TV shows and like are not part of culture
Maybe that's why there's in this weird space where they believe these weird things
james lindsay
I don't know.
They're sad.
They're sad.
tim pool
How fun is it to talk about Back to the Future?
ian crossland
It's way better.
tim pool
It's a great movie.
james lindsay
It was fun.
tim pool
That was three, right?
james lindsay
That was three.
tim pool
Three was great.
ian crossland
I loved it.
james lindsay
Christopher Lloyd.
ian crossland
He's incredible.
james lindsay
He's good.
ian crossland
Okay, so we're talking about...
Accelerationism, the culture war.
Do you think that it's like a Chinese or a communist intentional plot to subvert the political structure?
One of many that this guy, what was the guy's name?
The Albanian guy?
james lindsay
Oh, Antonio Gramsci.
ian crossland
This communist conceptual artist, Antonio Gramsci.
james lindsay
Gramsci.
ian crossland
Do you think they're using that philosophy now to try and undercut American society?
james lindsay
Yes and no, more yes than no.
The infiltration of the institutions and the establishment of a counter-hegemony and a counter-state, which the peeps on the right call a deep state, is certainly something that's been an objective, that's been explicit by the radical left intelligentsia.
It was definitely adopted by big players like Herbert Marcuse in the 1960s.
And you're like, who?
He was a rock star.
He had huge followings.
You're talking 1960s and he could, like, he could pack a house at 300,000, you know, sales of his book in the first, like, couple years it came out or something in the 60s.
So this is a, he was a rock star on the left.
He was mentor to Angela Davis.
We're talking about BLM and the prison stuff.
He was, he was her PhD mentor at UCSD.
And so it's like, he's not a fringe figure.
And he deliberately said in the 1960s that it's time for the leftist intelligentsia in
the universities to start teaming up with the cultural outsiders and the racial minorities,
specifically, to form kind of a block that would operate in kind of unison by the racial
minorities.
He didn't, of course, mean racial minorities.
What he meant was the radicalizable black liberationists who are operating within his
paradigm, which was the paradigm that was identified by the Communist Party in the 20s
and 30s as the wedge issue that would open America.
So there is an element to where it's very deliberate.
Now, your typical woke person has never heard of any of this, has no idea.
They're just trying to be a good person.
They put their black square on their Instagram.
They're like, but I do care about racism, and they have no idea about any of it.
Your typical professor of gender studies probably has a dim idea at best, maybe hasn't even ever heard of Gramsci.
So, probably has no idea that this actually was a communist plot, although they're going to still say, you know, down with capitalism, down with capitalism.
On my flight in here, I was actually reading Herbert Marcuse's essay on liberation, which was written in 1969.
And he's just like, all through it, he's like, You know, what we have to do is abolish capitalism in order to make room for socialism.
So this was certainly something that was in that line of thought all the way back, you know, in the 60s, and was deliberately implanted into the scholarly literature in the universities very intentionally then.
So there is an intentional aspect to it.
It's also modeled after what we are experiencing as a cultural revolution.
You know, you brought up China.
The Chinese had a cultural revolution in the 60s, through 76, or 65, through 75, or something like that.
The wave for that was paved—I know Mao is his own special kind of character—but the wave for that was paved with the same rhetoric as we see in critical race theory applied to the Han race instead of the white race.
We talked about Han supremacy starting in the 1920s in China.
We started talking about how some people were good Hans and some people were Han supremacists.
Like separating all the rhetoric mirrors really closely exactly what's going on, and they started to create basically racial disharmony throughout China, and then that was kind of part of the grounds upon which that instability that Mao was able to step in.
Who, when you say, though, is your typical critical race theorist a Marxist?
Well, some of them are.
I mean, you had the founders of Black Lives Matter come out and say, you know, we're trained Marxists.
They got caught on video saying that.
Was that Patricia Cullen?
tim pool
I don't think they were caught on saying it.
I think they were probably saying it.
james lindsay
Well, I know they probably were saying it.
tim pool
It was like a public thing.
james lindsay
Yeah, I mean, and if you read their website before they scrubbed it, it was like comrades this, comrades that.
tim pool
The Black Lives Matter fist is actually just the communist fist.
james lindsay
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
tim pool
It's not even the Black Lives Matter fist, but people call it that.
james lindsay
Right.
I mean, that's exactly right.
It is just a communist fist.
So there's something very deliberate there.
But again, your average critical race theorist may not know very much of this, because they're just caught up in the theory, just going along with the theory.
So there's like this lack of intentionality.
But then you say, who's funding this?
Of course, the universities are giving it space, but who's funding this?
And you start looking at the various, you know, huge organizations that are funding this, throwing billions of dollars into it.
You have, for example, Kimberly Crenshaw is one of the—she is the creator of intersectionality.
She was one of the creators of critical race theory.
She was a—she cites Angela Davis, who we just mentioned is a student of Marcuse.
Well, she runs this thing called the African American Policy Forum that's almost completely funded by the Open Society Foundation.
This is one of these big billionaire philanthropists that's basically dumping money into this.
tim pool
That's George Soros.
james lindsay
That's Soros, yeah.
What's the agenda there?
Was he a communist?
Well, I don't know.
I have no idea.
tim pool
Mackenzie Bezos also put $2 billion into critical theory.
james lindsay
Yeah, I mean, tons of them.
I mean, the Oregon Ethnic Studies Ethnic Math Program that just made headlines everywhere, where they were, like, focusing on the right answers, white supremacy culture.
tim pool
Two plus two is five.
james lindsay
Two plus two is five.
Well, that one's not in there, but it's in the wheelhouse.
Yeah, but Ethnomathematics for the state of Oregon, which just got pushed through by law, I think, into their schools, that's funded by Bill and Melinda Gates.
The whole program was funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
And so it's like, are they communists?
I mean, it's like, I don't know.
I don't think so.
unidentified
Maybe.
james lindsay
I don't know.
tim pool
What's a good word for people like that?
You know, like megalomaniac?
james lindsay
I mean, megalomaniac is usually kind of the thing, right?
It's people who think that they have the capacity to just step in and do good.
Like the bad guy in the movie.
Do they know how to work?
Yeah.
I'm glad you brought that up.
Isn't that film just a bit on the nose?
tim pool
Yeah!
james lindsay
Like, they even make the My Fair Lady reference.
tim pool
What's that?
james lindsay
Okay, so you know the story of My Fair Lady, right?
tim pool
It was like a woman was like a tramp or something?
james lindsay
Yeah, yeah, Eliza Doolittle.
And so this is written by George Bernard Shaw.
It was actually originally titled Pygmalion and modeled after the Pygmalion myth, but we don't have to go into Pygmalion.
So Eliza Doolittle is this tramp, basically.
And these two rich guys find her and they're like, I have a bet, you know, and they're gonna bring her in and teach her her manners well enough to fake it and if she can get to the end of this, you know, fancy dinner at the end of a certain amount of time and convince everybody that she's not basically a flower girl, which I think is what it actually is.
she's selling flowers or something, and that's of course a symbol for something.
Then, you know, one or the other wins the bet and it's all this gentleman's bet or
whatever. And so that's what My Fair Lady is about. So that was written though by
George Bernard Shaw, who was a leader of the Fabian socialists, which had the
crest of a wolf in sheep's clothing, and it had the explicit agenda. If you can
look up there, they have a stained glass window that's very famous called the
Fabian glass or the Fabian window, and it actually says something like, it shows
the world heated up on a forge, set on an anvil, and they're hitting it with
hammers. And one of the people hitting it is George Bernard Shaw, and it's like
heated up and remolded to the heart's desire or something like that.
So they're trying to reshape the world, and they were socialists, and the goal was incremental sneaking in of socialism, wolf in sheep's clothing, so that people don't realize what you're doing.
tim pool
It says, remold it nearer to the heart's desire.
james lindsay
Yeah, that's what it says, that's right.
tim pool
Pray devoutly, hammer stoutly.
james lindsay
Wow.
Yeah, so this is actually a really famous piece of glass.
The Fabian Society is not well known now.
It, I think, still exists.
It spun off the Labour Party in the UK and probably the other Labour parties.
It also spun off the London School of Economics, which is probably its main operating base of think tanks now.
And the reference, like, at the very beginning of Kingsman, you know, you have, again, this kind of, like, roughneck Essex Cockney kid, right?
And he's just, like, all kinds of in trouble because he grew up without his dad.
His dad died in the thing.
And he has a special, like, Kingsman thing if he ever gets in trouble.
And he's always going around and horsing around getting in trouble.
And he has a foul mouth.
It's really kind of funny the way he talks, you know.
Eggsy is his name.
And then he ends up getting in trouble and he calls and it's like these gentlemen appear and now they're gonna make him into a gentleman warrior.
tim pool
Yeah.
james lindsay
Secret service agent.
tim pool
Gentleman spy.
james lindsay
And you know the movie's hilarious.
It's really worth watching.
It's like a semi... I don't know.
It's not even semi-serious.
It's a spoof off of like James Bond type stuff.
tim pool
It's pretty serious.
james lindsay
But it's pretty serious too.
tim pool
Yeah, but like it kind of it plays into the silliness of the gentleman spy.
james lindsay
Right, and so the theme of the first, there's two of the two films, and the theme of the first film though, you have, is it Samuel L. Jackson?
tim pool
Yeah.
james lindsay
Is playing this megalomaniac, cell phone company, big tech mogul, Vincent Valentine or something, something Valentine, I forgot his first name.
And he basically has decided that we are the virus and the planet is going to die from global warming.
And so he devises this technology that can make people go insane and kill each other if they hear a noise.
And so what he offers is everybody in the world gets free cell phones, free SIM cards, free internet forever or whatever.
So everybody goes to get their free SIM cards and then he plays the sound when everybody has them.
And everybody starts killing each other everywhere they are to bring down the global population.
tim pool
But the tramp in this movie stops him and saves all the people.
james lindsay
Well, that's right.
That's exactly right.
tim pool
So is that kind of defying Shaw's story?
james lindsay
I mean, I watch this and I'm just... I mean, with the point, of course, I just brought up Shaw because they reference the movie, right?
And so they reference the play, I should say, My Fair Lady.
tim pool
What I mean is, in the movie, the bad guy is the guy who wants to kill all the people to stop global warming.
Correct.
james lindsay
Using a high-tech media device that makes people crazy, which is super on the nose.
tim pool
Exactly.
And the good guy is the regular person who didn't want to be involved and got dragged in and found an opportunity and then says, I'm going to stop these people and save the ones that I love.
james lindsay
Oh, right.
A regular guy who along the way learns manners maketh man.
tim pool
Yeah.
james lindsay
Right.
So that's like their like little line of the gentleman warrior or spy or whatever.
But yeah.
So the question I watch this and I'm like, Did the people who wrote this film know?
Like, they made the My Fair Lady reference.
Did they know about the Fabian Socialists?
The plan of the Fabian Socialists?
They know where this is, like, what could be going on here?
Are they tapped into the idea that we're using media devices, like, in our pocket?
It's not noises, it's social media, to drive ourselves nuts and hate each other?
tim pool
Have you seen, um, what's that, uh, what's that TV show?
The, the, uh, the virus one?
lydia smith
Oh, Utopia?
tim pool
Utopia!
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
Have you seen Utopia?
james lindsay
I have not, but what a name.
tim pool
They cancelled it.
Do you want to know why they cancelled it?
james lindsay
Two on the nose?
Yep.
tim pool
Yep.
unidentified
Whoa.
tim pool
The show is about a, uh, there's these people and, spoiler alert, it's an old show but they
remade it on Amazon.
The Amazon remake apparently got cancelled because it was Two on the Nose.
Let me explain that, but, you know, let me explain.
There's a comic book, and in the comic there's clues to what's really going on.
To put it simply, a piece of visual entertainment gives a group of people foreknowledge as to what's really going on and what's really going to happen.
As it turns out, this tech mogul guy who thinks that we're overpopulated and the planet is destroying itself stages a pandemic and then offers up everybody a vaccine which sterilizes them.
And they canceled it because they were like, yeah, no.
And so the point was conspiracy theorists were saying a piece of visual entertainment that we can watch is talking about a virus that's being staged, you know, that's where a tech mogul is pushing a vaccine.
Little on the nose with what's going on right now.
And so, you have a show, they're reading a comic, learning the future, or what the plan is, the code names, Tech Mogul.
Well, we got a Bill Gates, we got a COVID-19, we got a vaccine program, and we got it free for everybody.
And so they were like, you know, stop the show.
james lindsay
Yeah, wow.
tim pool
And the original version of it actually was back in like, I think 2011 or something in the UK.
unidentified
Oof.
tim pool
Yeah.
I mean, so, I mean... Life imitates art, I guess?
ian crossland
Do you ever see that video game Plague Inc.?
unidentified
No.
ian crossland
Plague Incorporated?
It was like, the object... It's still super popular.
Yeah, well it got banned in China right after COVID.
Yeah, I remember that.
They banned it.
But the point of the game is you're playing as a virus or a pathogen of some sort and you want to infect all of humanity and destroy them.
And so after China banned the game, some time went by, they were like, we feel really bad about this.
They just released their expansion, The Cure.
So now you play as a doctor trying to vaccinate and stop the plague.
It's free for everyone until COVID's done, by the way.
Yeah.
So good, bad, I don't know, but super keyed into the manipulation of media.
That's for sure.
james lindsay
You know, there's a gender studies paper that's titled Women's Studies as a Virus, right?
tim pool
Is that yours?
james lindsay
No, no, no.
This one's real.
It's by Michael Karger and Buran Fahs.
And they actually argue that the virus makes the ideal metaphor for feminist and women's studies and gender studies pedagogy.
And they say that what it should be is that people are being infected in their disciplines and by maybe minoring in the subject or whatever, then going off into graduate school to infect other disciplines.
And then they compare themselves.
I kid you not.
They compare themselves favorably to All of HIV, Ebola, and cancer.
unidentified
Wow.
james lindsay
They compare their own discipline favorably.
They say HIV is immune suppressing and so you have to take up steps that make you immune suppressing because it's a very effective virus.
Ebola is extraordinarily powerful and dangerous and contagious.
I'm not joking.
They talk about viruses entering cells, maybe like the HPV or whatever, and changing the DNA in the cell, and then that leads to cancer.
They said that represents permanent transformational change of disciplines and other departments and other walks of life and affinities.
ian crossland
Cancer?
tim pool
That's how they want to permanently change systems?
james lindsay
They literally call themselves Cancer, HIV, and Ebola.
tim pool
I wish the grand conspiracies were real sometimes, because life's kind of boring.
I mean, it's like... And it's probably just you look for patterns.
ian crossland
I think they are sometimes.
That's the crazy part.
tim pool
Yeah, like Gulf of Tonka, and we know that.
ian crossland
Yeah, we do know that.
For a fact.
I mean, for admission, anyway.
tim pool
Mostly.
I think there is still some, you know, pushback.
ian crossland
But sometimes these crazy conspiracies are real, which makes life worth living.
I mean, it's just so interesting.
It also makes life very dangerous, if you look into certain things, like State Street, BlackRock, and, uh, what's that other big investment firm?
There's like three investment firms that run the earth, basically.
It's the real government.
Yeah, yeah.
tim pool
At some point, and this is true, a lot of people realize because I've actually talked to politicians who've said this.
james lindsay
It's called Vanguard?
ian crossland
Vanguard, BlackRock, and Statesman.
Vanguard.
Biggest investment firm in the world.
tim pool
I've actually met politicians who say it's sometimes better to have the power in the shadows than it is to be the public face.
And so a lot of politicians are straight-up performative.
They're there to entertain and keep stability in the sense that, like, It's almost like, you know, with the Colosseum of Rome.
People were suffering, they were hungry, there was chaos, there was corruption, so give them fights and throw bread at them.
Bread and circuses, right?
Well, now they're effectively doing that in Congress.
You'd see, for the longest time, these politicians yelling, like, you know, my colleague over there across the aisle just hates everybody and I am sick of it!
And then once it's over, like, you see the cameras, like, you know, the actual news network would pull away, but actually in the The C-SPAN never turns off, but nobody's watching it.
You'd watch them shake hands and grab a drink together and be hanging out and laughing, and it was like all a performance.
Because they keep the people in this country divided to a certain degree.
Maybe it's on purpose, maybe it's not, but it's actually what the machine does.
Whether these politicians intentionally do it, I'm sure a lot of people would say they would, the machine does it regardless.
unidentified
Right.
tim pool
The city people and the rural people are divided.
Even in red states, blue, like small towns are blue.
It's the weirdest thing.
I was in rural West Virginia and I drove through a tiny town and it was all critical race theory.
And I was like, wait, I just drove like a mile away and it was all Trump signs.
But in a small town where you had proximity, more density, it was like Black Lives Matter flags and stuff.
ian crossland
So you think they're playing performance, these politicians, because it's too dangerous to go deep on, like, the real issues?
The real companies, like Vanguard and stuff?
tim pool
No, I think the problem is they don't care and they don't pay attention.
ian crossland
That might be true.
tim pool
So it's an easy opportunity for those with massive power to just keep gaining power and no one will stop them.
ian crossland
I mean, Kennedy got killed.
I don't know if it was a political coup or not, but the dude was speaking out against the military-industrial complex and got killed.
That sucked.
So, and not since have any president ever come out against the military.
Yeah, he did a little bit.
tim pool
Actually, not really.
ian crossland
No, he didn't really.
tim pool
Yeah.
ian crossland
I mean, a little bit.
tim pool
Weapons deals.
ian crossland
He acknowledged it, but he didn't like do anything.
He wasn't saying, I'm going to break it up.
tim pool
He was all in favor of the weapons deals because of the money, but he was not in favor of the war because he promised to end it.
And so it wasn't, perhaps the, uh, if you believe in the conspiracies, it wasn't a kill worthy thing.
It was like, he's still selling our weapons.
We're getting money.
ian crossland
Using drone bombers.
tim pool
How do we sell more if he's not using them?
You know what I mean?
So they didn't like that.
They wanted more war.
ian crossland
But he wasn't, like, overtly like, I'm gonna break up the military-industrial complex, like Kennedy said.
He was very overt about it.
unidentified
Wow.
ian crossland
Fearless.
tim pool
So, back to the China question.
james lindsay
Uh-oh.
tim pool
Well, so, we had China Uncensored on the show.
I asked him about this, and I'm wondering, are you familiar with Thucydides' trap?
james lindsay
Yeah, vaguely.
tim pool
Basically, like, we're facing a potential war with China based on historical precedent.
I'm wondering if we're already... Well, actually, we're already in it.
You know, a lot of people might not want to acknowledge this, but cyber war between the US and China has been pretty intense for a long time.
james lindsay
Let me just draw back to that word, political war.
unidentified
Right.
james lindsay
Political warfare has been happening.
The biggest sign that I ever saw of that was the Chinese have a term to make fun of the woke, which is Baizhou.
unidentified
Baizhou, yes.
james lindsay
Baizhou, yeah.
It means white left.
unidentified
Yeah, white left.
tim pool
It does, yeah.
james lindsay
And then all of a sudden, like, the Wumao accounts on Twitter... Yeah, Twitter stopped making fun of them.
It's like all of a sudden it stopped making fun of them and then the accounts were like, America has a big systemic racism problem.
And it's like all of a sudden they realized that this is a weapon.
Because they used to make fun of the white left.
tim pool
Now they can see that it's destroying the country and they should embolden it.
ian crossland
Was Mao's revolution a form of political war in the beginning?
james lindsay
I mean, yeah, they were engaging in political warfare for sure.
The goal with the Cultural Revolution was kind of to cover up for the failure of the Great Leap Forward so that Mao could reclaim power.
ian crossland
So the Great Leap Forward was when he took all the farmers out of the farms.
james lindsay
Yeah, and he took all the farmers and said, you guys are going to all make steel, because steel is the one big measurement.
tim pool
Pig iron.
james lindsay
Yeah, and they all ended up making crappy pig iron, and nobody was growing food.
tim pool
Command economy, baby!
james lindsay
It was the Great Leap into the dumpster, is what it worked out to be.
The Great Leap into 50 million dead people, pretty much.
tim pool
Okay, now that's not funny.
james lindsay
Not so funny.
Yeah, so that was a huge failure and they actually kind of chased Mao out of power.
I'm not real sharp on the Chinese history with remembering who all the names are in the Gang of Four and all of this stuff.
But then Mao came back with basically with his little red book indoctrinating students and young people and universities and schools.
and unleashed what he called the Red Guard and the Cultural Revolution to destroy the
four olds of society.
And you know, old habits, old ideas, old customs, old ways of thinking.
What do you think is happening right now?
It's like, you know, Dr. Seuss was a man of his time.
We have to destroy that.
His time was terrible.
Thomas Jefferson was a man of his time.
Throw a statue in the lake.
Man of his time.
Take the name off the school in San Francisco.
Throw his statue in the lake, too.
You know, write like the Antifa A or whatever it is on his face with spray paint.
tim pool
Anarchy A. Which apparently they don't understand what that means.
I love this.
Yeah, exactly.
That's a better one.
Authoritarianism.
james lindsay
By the way, in that essay, not to dive into this, but in that essay on liberation I was reading, you repeatedly have Marcuse refer to the need to raise the red and the black flag.
That's what he's always referring to throughout that, in case you wonder who he's connected to.
unidentified
Yeah.
ian crossland
What's that, the fascist and the communist flag together?
tim pool
No, no, red and black is left anarchy.
It's a symbol of, what is it, black is labor, and red is...
james lindsay
Yeah, it's socialism and anarchy is what it is.
tim pool
And then there's black and yellow.
That's why Luke really likes black and yellow.
That's capitalism.
james lindsay
That's the fancy symbol of Antifa, has a black and a red flag.
That's what it is.
And so he's referring to that in 1969.
It's like empowering the black and the red.
He even says the black and the red flag must be empowered behind this.
And it's like, huh?
Anti-fascist Acton or however it's said in German.
My German pronunciation is not very good.
tim pool
Do you know what the Berlin Wall's real name was?
james lindsay
No.
tim pool
The Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart.
That was the actual name of the Berlin Wall.
We just call it the Berlin Wall because that's the colloquial name.
That's the common name.
But I think it's important we remember what the true name was.
james lindsay
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, this is the thing.
So I was reading Bella Dodd's testimony again.
I read it in December or November last year, and I was reading it again a little bit today and a little bit last week.
And Bella Dodd was a member of the Communist Party USA who confessed and she actually left the party defected.
And in 1953, she confessed everything basically about the Communist Party's ideas to the House Committee on American Activities, now known as the House Judiciary Committee.
And, well, not quite.
It assumed all of that former committee's roles and duties, which are technically not dissolved.
But she's confessing, and she says, you will always find—I put this on Twitter just yesterday, or the day before—you will always find that the communist plan is to dress up its activities in high-minded terms.
So you'll find the communists saying that we are the anti-fascists.
Right.
And so if you oppose communism, you must be pro-fascist.
She was saying this in the 1950s about how this would happen.
tim pool
I'm an anti-Republican.
james lindsay
Good.
I mean, I have those memes about becoming an anti-Republican.
tim pool
Yeah, yeah.
See, I'm an anti-Republican.
That means I believe in free speech.
It means I believe in the right of the individual to assemble, the Constitution.
And if you oppose me, you're pro-Republican.
james lindsay
Yeah, that's the problem.
unidentified
Yeah.
james lindsay
Yeah, exactly.
I'm glad you understand the logic.
ian crossland
The communists would say, um, rightists.
They hunted down the rightists.
james lindsay
They did.
Rightist intent, rightist beliefs.
This was big with Mao.
Also, of course, bourgeois, but, um, but they did go right after rightist.
It's too naked.
But I mean, Marcuse put that, his essay, Repressive Tolerance from 1965.
The thesis statement is literally almost word for word.
Movements from the left must be tolerated under all circumstances and movements from the right must not be tolerated.
ian crossland
What terrifies me is when I find myself saying people on the left, I feel like I've been indoctrinated and subconsciously being used as a pawn to segregate this culture war.
james lindsay
No, that's true.
What needs to be done is that the willful actors who are participating in this need their own identifiable name that actually sticks.
Woke is a thing, but it's slangy.
Critical social justice is a term that shows up in their literature, but it's scholarly.
You know, we could get really technical, and it's a critical constructivist.
That's what they do.
tim pool
The Fighting Mongooses.
That's a good team name.
james lindsay
Yeah, I know, right?
It's not too bad.
Flying Eagles.
But I don't know, you know, what exactly to call them.
The Repressive Left would work, but people have tried variations.
It was Regressive Left for a long time.
Repressive is actually more... Let's call them Identitarians.
Identitarians is good, yeah.
Identity Marxists fits.
tim pool
I think Identitarian works because it's the core ideology for a lot of what they push.
And Google search what Identitarian means and then, you know.
ian crossland
Authoritarian, I like a lot too.
tim pool
But it's Identitarian.
These are people who want law based on race.
They want law and policy based on identity.
ian crossland
That's better.
Because if we think of it as left, then they'll use that to hunt people down.
james lindsay
And it's easy to be opposed to racism in all its forms, right?
tim pool
Yeah.
james lindsay
Racism's wrong in all its forms.
There's a very powerful, simple statement that also has the concept of, or Robert Lifton would have called, thought-stopping technique, which is what they use on you all the time.
When they call you a racist, they're using thought-stopping techniques.
Lifton was, by the way, describing how Mao was able to use the Red Guard to take over when he talked about cults being built, and he was specifically analyzing the Maoist one.
tim pool
They're going to put half a million dollars into this autonomous zone, apparently.
I don't know what that means.
ian crossland
Did they say what it was for?
james lindsay
No, it's GFAS.
tim pool
Yeah, that's cool.
ian crossland
I'm not going to lie.
Stepping out of the system for a minute.
GFAS sounds cool.
tim pool
Don't you want to go down and hang out at the GFAS?
unidentified
I don't know.
tim pool
Yes, but they'll shoot me, so I'm not going to.
ian crossland
Oh, never mind.
tim pool
Yeah, journalists showed up and they were like, something bad's about to happen right now.
He's like, OK, we're leaving.
james lindsay
Yeah, that's true.
ian crossland
What a loser.
lydia smith
Yeah.
tim pool
If a journalist shows up, he's like, what do you mean?
I'm outside.
And they're like, you better leave.
I'd be like, shut your mouth, kid.
Go home.
james lindsay
Bring it.
tim pool
Make it happen.
james lindsay
That's a decision dilemma too.
They're going to put in a decision dilemma.
Yep.
And they lost.
tim pool
And people are cowards.
ian crossland
Wait, what do you mean?
What's the decision dilemma?
james lindsay
You have to either show weakness or you have to overreact.
ian crossland
Interesting.
When they get up in your face and they're like, you better get out of here.
james lindsay
Well, I was actually talking about the, uh, just the establishment of an autonomous zone at all.
They're basically playing chicken with the city.
If the city overreacts, they're going to be like, help fascists.
tim pool
This is why we need Klumblok.
james lindsay
Clown blog.
tim pool
Yeah.
james lindsay
Is that like bat anti-shark spray?
tim pool
A hundred people dressing clowns just dancing and playing music and like banging drums and like, you know, just because there's there's no aggression.
There's no attack.
There's no affiliation.
It's bizarre.
And it occupies space and sullies their ideology.
james lindsay
That's very Butlerian.
tim pool
Listen.
If you send in a group of Proud Boys, it's horrifying white supremacists attacking poor Black Lives Matter protesters.
james lindsay
So my friend told me that the Proud Boys should all put on, like, they should march socially distanced on purpose.
They should all wear rainbow masks.
They should have, like, you know, like, the feminist power fist, like, in the circle with the plus, on their, like, emblazoned on their chest or whatever.
And they should go in singing, like, John Lennon's Imagine.
And then just see what happens, because that puts them in a decision dilemma.
tim pool
But sure, but the story would then be, Yeah, maybe.
far right white supremacists troll black protesters? Maybe.
What happens if a bunch of unnamed, unidentifiable clowns show up playing music and banging
drums and giving out funnel cake and cotton candy? Four hundred articles about the Joker.
They'll just say a bunch of clowns showed up and are occupying the space and playing music and
unidentified
when they're asked about what they're doing they just go, and then who are the clowns?
james lindsay
The people that occupy the Autonomous Zone, of course.
tim pool
Exactly.
They're all clowns.
The Autonomous Zone is just occupied by a large group of clowns.
That's it.
Each and every clown is unidentifiable.
They're not a political faction.
They have no political ideology.
Their faces are painted and they're wearing wigs.
They're unidentifiable.
They don't bring weapons.
They don't fight anybody.
Literally just clowns having fun riding little tricycles and laughing and hugging and dancing.
And what would happen if a parade of clowns with balloons got brutally beaten by Antifa?
ian crossland
It would be art that was watched for millennia.
People would reference those videos of the clowns being taken away in handcuffs.
By who?
unidentified
Cops?
ian crossland
Cops can't go in.
unidentified
It would be terrifying.
ian crossland
It would be hilariously horrifying.
It's a decision dilemma.
tim pool
What can these groups do if clowns occupy their space?
Peaceful, happy, go lucky, friendly family, friendly people, there just to bring a smile to people's faces who may be sad.
james lindsay
You are creating the decision dilemma back for them.
Right.
Which is actually what you have to do.
tim pool
No public announcements, no organization, just a hundred clowns showing up on a certain date just to bring joy to people.
james lindsay
Joy and peace and love and funnel cake, of course.
tim pool
Anti-violence.
And if you oppose the anti-violence, then you're pro-violence.
james lindsay
That's right.
ian crossland
You'd have to sustain it to really have an impact.
Like, seven weeks of clowns.
And they could always be the same clowns, but different people could come in.
tim pool
But you could do this everywhere.
You could do it everywhere.
Because When you look at the black block when what the activists do
and they all wear black you can't figure out who these people
Are you don't necessarily know what their ideology is or they want and it's they do this on purpose
So they can't get caught when they commit crimes. Yeah, exactly. How are you gonna smear a bunch of clowns?
ian crossland
Just bunch of clowns Touché, dude.
I'm in it.
james lindsay
No, this is good.
It creates the necessary dynamic that you have to do.
People ask me all the time, like, what's basically the strategy?
What kind of thing do you have to do?
They're trying to put you in a decision dilemma.
You have to put them back in a decision dilemma.
And mid-level violence, beating them with mid-level violence, that's how you do it.
tim pool
One of these leftists would dress like a clown and throw a molotov.
james lindsay
Oh, yeah, that's true.
That's the other thing, because, like, I was talking to a guy who wants a, like, I can't build technologies, and maybe you guys can.
He was saying it would be really helpful if you had, like, this app where, even if it's just anonymous, that you know, you know, you could type in your school board or whatever, like, Brown School Board or whatever.
and you could find it or school district and you could find out like parents can go in and opt in anonymously or whatever maybe there's a community function maybe it's not but you could actually just know there's like 90 other parents in the school's school district who oppose critical race theory yeah so you feel more emboldened to be able to speak up and if you could connect with one another even if it's anonymous at first or whatever but i was like it's just going to get like activists are just going to make fake accounts and descend on that like crazy right um maybe if it's like you know just the yes there are people here You can make it anonymous, like, you know.
Yeah.
tim pool
No one can see your name, so you can say whatever you want.
james lindsay
Right.
I mean, that would have to be the case, because the second they find out who you are, you know, there's trouble.
tim pool
I don't think so.
I think the only reason there's trouble is because there's 100 people, 10 of them are pointing, you know, the baseball bat, and the other 90 are like, but no one will have my back.
james lindsay
Yeah, well, the odds aren't that good for them, actually.
I've heard so many stories now, because I get preferential stories of this sort sent to me.
I've heard so many stories where you have a school district, for example, that serves maybe 5-10,000 families total in a community.
And the people do some digging and find out that it's a dozen activists.
Twelve against thousands.
Right.
And I've had cases where there's been small cities in the U.S.
where people on either like the city council or whatever have contacted me and said, you know, we did some digging, you know, we're getting constant relentless harassment and tons of comments on all the message boards, blah, blah, blah, from different accounts.
Well, they're all fake.
Turns out there's like 20 people.
Only one of them is a constituent because you have to have one to be able to file stuff.
And what tipped him off is like, why does the same person file everything, right?
You know, that requires a constituent to file?
But it's like, it looks like there's 400 people.
This happens to me on Twitter all the time.
So I tweet something about Hegel's philosophy, like anybody cares, right?
And, uh, all of a sudden, you know, I start getting dunked on, which is strange enough.
It must be touching some wire.
And then, I'm having, like, cartoon characters with, like, 60 followers reply tweet to my tweet, getting 300, 400 likes within an hour or two.
Like, you can't tell me that's organic.
Like, that's not normal.
I just don't check notifications.
Twitter behavior in any universe.
tim pool
So just don't check notifications.
james lindsay
But no, the point is that what you actually have with a lot of these activists is you
have a perception that there are lots of them.
But what there actually are very small numbers of them, usually with lots of accounts that
are swarming in artificial fake ways to make it look like there's lots and lots and lots
unidentified
of people.
ian crossland
That's a military tactic where you'll you'll make it seem like there's more of you surrounding
the enemy to confuse them, set off explosives over there and noise over there.
james lindsay
Yeah, I think these people feel like they're insurgents They are insurgents then they know they're insurgents the ones who are not just like your average like dopey foot soldier wokey They know what they're doing.
They're very informed They know that they're just trying to claim power.
They know what the tactics are.
They have books like Beautiful Trouble that are activist handbooks that tell them how to do this.
ian crossland
I'm at a bit of a loss.
Maybe you could help.
Now, I'm a big advocate of turn the other cheek.
I believe if someone wrongs you, the best thing you can do is just allow it, understand, see their humanity.
But I also see they crucified Jesus after he told people to do that.
One time a friend of mine would smack my leg a lot and I was like, ah, it really hurt.
And I was like, stop, please stop hitting me.
But she, she just was doing it.
It was just programmed to do it.
And one day I said, if you do it again, I'm going to hit you as hard as you're hitting me.
So she did it again.
And I hit her, smacked her super hard.
And she was screamed out and never hit me again.
This situation was solved.
james lindsay
Yeah, you hear this with parents and children who bite a lot, is that they finally just, you know, bite the kid back, and it's like, that's what it feels like.
The kid never bites again.
And it's like, there is a point there.
And this is where I was saying earlier, you know, cancel that.
If someone comes to cancel, you cancel them first.
It's kind of like a, it's semi-humorous, you know, thing, but I don't think until—I keep saying the asymmetry is the story.
The asymmetry is the goal.
The goal of repressive tolerance from 1965 was to create this asymmetry—left good, right bad.
Marcuse, in that essay, by the way, if you want to see how close to what is happening now it is, he says that the problem isn't even that right-wing movements exist and do things and that they would be violent.
They have to be stopped at the point where the thought enters their head.
Therefore, it requires not even just censorship, but pre-censorship of movements from the right.
And that asymmetry is what's being attempted.
That's what cancel culture is meant to do.
Cancel culture is meant to create pre-censorship.
In other words, the idea is not even out there anymore.
People are afraid, even if they hold the idea to say it, because if they say it, they're going to get cancelled.
They're going to get shot down off of their platform.
They're going to lose whatever it is that's their living, or whatever it happens to be.
The kids are going to get harassed at school.
So pre-censorship, to prevent people from even feeling like they can say the thing, is really their objective.
Until the symmetry is restored, it's just going to be L after L after L after L stacking up.
tim pool
Until people grow spines and just say, shut up, I don't care.
james lindsay
Well, I mean, historically speaking, from what I've been told, but I'm not a scholar of this, I can't talk about it deeply, is until the children of the actual elites start having an impact, or the parents, I should say, of the children see an impact in their children's lives.
tim pool
But it's already happening.
unidentified
Sort of.
tim pool
And they're playing into it.
james lindsay
Sort of.
I mean, that's the problem, is a lot of people at that level have bought into the ideology.
I hear from parents all the time that say, like, the one thing I wish more desperately than any is that I could talk to other parents at my kid's school and say, don't you just think this is all bogus?
Don't you think it's a terrible idea that they're bringing in trans strippers to dance?
tim pool
Those people need to have someone throw a large ice-cold water balloon in their face.
james lindsay
Well, they said what's happening is they know that if, especially, and this is true in private schools, elite private schools, that if they say that to the wrong parent, their kid's going to get pushed out of the school.
unidentified
Good!
tim pool
Why is your kid in that school in the first place?
james lindsay
I mean, that's kind of the feeling that I have.
I've been kind of pissed off at people for a long time, which it's like, you know, people are like, I'm scared I'm going to lose my job.
It's like, everybody's going to lose their job if this goes badly.
tim pool
Why do you want to work for a company that's funding this?
You know, look, I've stopped caring a lot about these autonomous zones to a certain degree in that Portland voted for the rioters.
They literally voted for the rioters.
And a lot of people are like, dude, I can't leave.
I'm stuck.
I sympathize.
I empathize.
If you're stuck and you can't afford to leave, I understand.
But maybe at a certain point to realize that we live in trying times and the world is not perfect.
See, for me, maybe it's easier.
I don't have children.
I've been homeless before.
I'm not scared of it.
If I had to just walk into the woods, I'd be like, okay.
But too many people are scared.
They've lived in comfort for too long, and they're scared of losing that luxury because they don't understand what it's like to actually have to survive on the streets.
And you know what?
Surviving on the streets?
Infinitely easier than surviving in the woods.
And you don't even have to do that.
No one's talking about, you know, making you a homeless person living under a bridge.
We're just saying, they might take your kid out of the school, and then you gotta figure out something for your kid.
james lindsay
Yeah.
tim pool
Homeschool them.
james lindsay
This is the truth, is that the thing that you said, that we live in trying times now, and people have to start living as though... I mean, this is something I get mad about at the very smart people a lot, is, you know, my opinion is, I would agree with you if the world was the same way it was five years ago.
I haven't even said that.
I got asked a question, I gave a talk recently at a major university, a very famous major university, and I got asked a question that was very much to that, you know, they were like, well, don't you think you turn people off by some of the way that you behave on Twitter and the way that you behave?
And I was like, first of all, I don't care at all.
Good.
Bye.
But second of all, most importantly, is like, I can't first, why bye?
Because I can't put a chain around my neck and constrain the way that I need to feel like I need to talk to say what I need to say, because it might upset somebody who follows me on Twitter.
I don't care.
But secondly, and much more importantly, if the world was the way it was five years ago, or the way we thought it was five years ago, I probably would believe you or agree with you.
But it's not.
We're in a bad situation right now.
And if you don't act like we're in a bad situation right now and start living like what time it actually is, then this just keeps getting worse.
And it gets harder.
I told people this at the beginning of the riots last summer.
This won't blow over.
The longer you wait to stand up, the harder it gets.
tim pool
Well, I'll put it this way.
We're all in a boat, and that boat is taking on water.
And you've got people like me and James Lindsay and Ian and other people we have on the show who are looking you in the face right now and say, start bailing.
And they're going, but, you know, I I don't know if I should because I mean, you know, that
ways toward the lifeboats. We tried bailing water.
It's like bro. The whole thing's gonna split in half. It's gonna go under and I'll tell you this. We're all making our
top of the Titanic and go to the back, it's not sinking over there. It's actually going up. I think that'll be fine.
people are gonna get they're gonna find out that I know the ship is sinking and then I'd rather look if I climb to the
Maybe we're past that point.
Now we're at the point where those of us who have been paying attention, and many of you who are watching, have already started getting ready for what those lifeboats figuratively are.
And a lot of people who think they can sit back and shut up and keep their head down are going to be in for a very, very rude awakening.
I will tell you, there's a meme where death goes knocking on every door.
And every door has like a trail of blood coming out.
And the meme will show like video game companies or movies or whatever.
And then he's knocking on the next door.
People seem to think, I will sit in my house and as these psychopaths go door-to-door threatening people, if I put up the flag, they'll walk past me and then, oh no, one day they don't.
They knock on your door and they say, well, are you going to give us money now?
Like they did to the businesses in Louisville.
You know that story?
Yeah.
Black Lives Matter went around to all the local businesses downtown and said, tithe or else.
And when one Cuban immigrant said no, they shattered a pot and said tithe or else.
And then they set up barricades and called him racist and shut down his business.
That's what happens.
Tithe or else.
They demanded a percentage of the income from these businesses.
Sit back at your own peril, fine.
But don't come crawling to me when you keep saying, but I'm scared to talk to the other parents.
Okay, well then you reap what you've sown.
You are the one watering the flowers of destruction, and then you're gonna come and complain about it later?
Dude, the rest of us are getting into the weeds and pulling out the trash and getting rid of the grubs, while you're sitting back saying, I don't want to get my hands dirty.
ian crossland
Okay, I'll say.
Yes.
Bail.
Pick up a pail and bail the water.
unidentified
Love it.
ian crossland
Also, get the lifeboats ready.
But, I think we can salvage the hull.
So, if you're interested in the structure of the system and you want to repair it, that is also possible.
But we need to get the lifeboats ready and we need to bail.
That is by speaking your mind online.
You make a video, you let people know.
tim pool
It's by talking to other parents and saying, that's ridiculous. No, I'm sorry, that makes no sense.
And then if they get mad and they huff and puff, be like, you keep your cool and you be polite and you be nice and
you let them freak out.
You want them to show their true colors when they have the tribalist panic attack.
And this is why I always try to be very nice on Twitter.
Because I want people to look at the interactions between these lunatics and see someone saying, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you, and them saying, F you, you slimeball, I hate your guts.
And then when a regular person who's uninitiated sees that, they go, I don't want to hang out with the mean person.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
james lindsay
You can't let the lie come through you.
I said earlier the Soviet Union lasted 70 years of pretty crap, to put it mildly.
Do you know what led the Soviet Union, when it started to actually collapse?
I mean, there's lots of economic factors and some other stuff and whatever, but it's when the people, the citizens, actually started to laugh at it.
It's like everybody knew for a long time it was a lie and they just kind of did it.
At some point they started to laugh at it.
And so when Tim said, you know, it's one parent talking to another and saying, that's ridiculous.
Like, I mean, it's stupid, I guess, but think about Harry Potter, right?
So you had your, your literature reference.
I can have my dorky literature reference.
tim pool
Harry Potter.
Come on.
unidentified
Harry Potter three with the, with the werewolf.
james lindsay
Come on.
unidentified
Good one.
james lindsay
And which one does he teach?
Right?
You have this, yeah, the shape-changing boggarts, the thing that you're afraid of.
It is what it turns into the thing you are the most afraid of.
It's going to take away the thing you're most worried about.
It's a shape-shifting thing.
You don't know what it is and what is the magic spell that breaks it, that destroys it.
Ridiculous.
You call the thing ridiculous.
You just laugh at it.
And that this is actually a very useful parable.
Because the truth is this ideology, as horrible and dangerous as it is, is also ridiculous.
It is patently ridiculous.
The things that it says, the things that it claims, are laughably dumb.
tim pool
Like, you know what you do?
It's really, really simple.
Get your friends, if you're a parent, and your anti-woke, And then invite an unsuspecting woke person to a barbecue.
And then when they're sitting there, start chanting, gooble gobble, one of us, gooble gobble, one of us, and that will absolutely convince them to change their minds.
Or runaway screaming, you know, like in the movie.
ian crossland
You could do a drum circle too.
Yeah, it's more subliminal.
james lindsay
Well, you gotta be careful not to appropriate anything there.
ian crossland
Yeah, that's right.
Snare drums.
tim pool
Alright, let's go to Super Chats, my friends.
If you haven't already, smash the like button and subscribe.
Hit the notification bell if you're listening on iTunes or Spotify.
Give us a good review because, well, if you think we deserve it, it really does help.
Let's see what we got here.
james lindsay
Tim deserves it, by the way.
tim pool
We deserve all of the five stars.
Five stars and thumbs up.
Why aren't you all liking the like button?
Smashing.
Tapping.
Like.
ian crossland
All of the above.
tim pool
Liking all of the like buttons.
james lindsay
I won't say banging.
unidentified
Banging.
lydia smith
Yeah.
tim pool
Bang that like button.
I didn't say it.
james lindsay
People are saying.
People are saying like the like button or bang the like button.
tim pool
Alright.
Acme says, it's been incredible reading your new discourses essays and then seeing the same ideas months later in articles written by serious journalists.
Dare to name any names?
You're always on the cutting edge of this ideology.
james lindsay
Aren't I?
What are some of the essays that have sparked Well, I mean, you know, I might have did a four-part podcast series explaining Herbert Marcuse's repressive tolerance, and Matt Taibbi might have written an article right after that that got a ton of attention.
tim pool
That's cool, though.
lydia smith
Right on.
james lindsay
No, see, I'm not actually jelly, because I want the ideas to get out there.
That's the goal, right?
And I understand the Country Club mentality, and that's fine.
The goal is to get the ideas out there.
I see that Claire Lehman of Quillette fame is now talking about critical theory, where for like a year she told me it was too obscure.
tim pool
It's normal, man.
unidentified
It's good.
tim pool
You know, it was a really weird moment for me when I started seeing some of my ideas be repeated by other people.
james lindsay
I mean, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?
There was just a great article.
I mean, it's truly great.
tim pool
But I'll say this.
I don't think it's imitation.
I think it's a good idea.
And then people who hear that and say it's a good idea come to believe that idea and come to share it in the same way you did when you came up with it.
james lindsay
That's correct.
Yeah, there's another great article, and I don't even remember for sure who it's by, Bhatia Ungar Sargon or something.
Sargon Ungar.
I don't remember exactly what her name is.
I'm not familiar with her.
She's new to me.
hyphenated last name which makes things complicated for me.
If one of you can find it, that's cool.
But she wrote a beautiful article.
I even, it's really funny because I predicted on Twitter the day before it came
out that somebody would probably be writing an article about Hegel which I kept getting made fun
of on Twitter about, that the Hegelian philosophy has relevance to what's going on.
And she writes this beautiful article about the Hegelian relevance to the woke movement.
I mean, that's part of it.
I literally tweeted about that yesterday.
ian crossland
There you go.
It's like you're developing the theory or the scholarly presentation and then other
people are making it more like mainstream palatable.
james lindsay
I mean that's part of it.
I do understand that I write dork stuff that's hard to read.
I need to figure out if more people are talking about the psychopathy aspect.
I actually think the most important article I've written in a long time I published it on Christmas in case because COVID because like we didn't have a Christmas this year because my mom had a COVID scare at work.
My brother is absolutely not hanging out like he's totally COVIDed out.
And then my kids are scattered to the winds for the moment, and COVID makes everything weird.
I had just gone on a trip, and so it was like, eh, let's just all do Christmas at home this year.
So I was like, well, there are a lot of people who are doing Christmas at home alone, so I'll put an article out that I was going to save until a little bit after, and it's called something like, Psychopathy and the Origins of Totalitarianism.
And it's super important to understand that a lot of the origins of what's going on here are people who are failing to cope with the world as it is and create what I called in there, borrowing from, what's his name?
It's terrible to forget a guy's name right in the middle of something important, but Joseph Piper.
Pseudorealities.
They create false realities and then they push those through with a false morality and a false logical form called a parology and a paramorality.
And I lay out this whole article that basically they're coping with the inability to cope with the world by trying to force everybody else to live in their delusions.
There you go.
And I haven't seen the psychopathy article, or argument, making it out far yet.
I really want to though.
tim pool
Let's, uh, we'll read some more of these.
The Crazy One says, Hey Tim, look up the dates the U.S.
declared war on the Confederate States.
unidentified
Huh.
tim pool
Someone want to pop that up real quick?
All right, let's see.
Ian Hall says, isn't all rap pretty much anti-woke?
Like, even Nicki Minaj is alphabet.
I don't know what that means.
What does that mean?
james lindsay
Don't know.
Is there any woke rap?
Is it any good?
I mean, like... Probably not.
I mean, there's no such thing really as woke art.
It's like, it's technically kind of anti-art, because it's propaganda.
tim pool
All right, here we go.
Dr. Roller Gator says, hi James, hope you made friends today and that everyone on the internet was nice.
james lindsay
Is he in all caps?
tim pool
No.
james lindsay
Oh, what?
unidentified
What the heck?
james lindsay
What?
Caps!
lydia smith
I love him.
tim pool
Deplorable Pirate Captain Gunbeard says, my advice to everyone left of Marx, quit being a consumer, embrace self-reliance, making, and right to repair.
Corporate cop sellouts will hate and fear a culture built around that.
Yeah, I think so.
Paul Jimikowski says, Thank you for being a light in the dark, James.
Keep up the fight.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
james lindsay
Do not let the lie come through you.
Solzhenitsyn.
tim pool
Softshell Crab says, So I have two questions.
What can a person from a small town do to influence policies that help small towns and not big cities?
Do any of y'all play Warhammer 40k or know the lore?
I do not.
ian crossland
I used to.
I played Space Wolves for a while.
Space Marines.
I love Tyranids.
I don't really love them, but I appreciate their psychic ways.
They're giant ant creatures that have enslaved other races.
But what was the other question exactly?
tim pool
How do you influence policies that will help small towns and not big cities?
ian crossland
The first thing I thought is make internet videos, because that affects everyone.
And give your personal experience.
tim pool
Build culture.
james lindsay
That's true.
That's right.
Don't be afraid to actually write to your representatives, especially if you have some video stuff that you've put out.
Send it to them.
Share them.
Yeah.
Um, I also have not played this game.
The last game I ever played, I actually, it's not quite true it's the last game I ever played, but I was playing World of Warcraft in like 2005 or something.
Oh yeah.
And I'm like launching fireballs at something or another, pirates or something.
And I just realized, I was like, I'm putting a lot of effort into making this avatar of myself awesome.
When I could be putting effort into making myself awesome.
tim pool
Sounds like you were barely in the game.
Sounds like Deadmines.
I mean, like level 15 or something.
james lindsay
Come on bro.
I was like 57 or something.
tim pool
Fighting pirates?
james lindsay
Big pirates.
tim pool
I guess, yeah, maybe it's been a while.
james lindsay
I forget where it was.
tim pool
Maybe like Tanaris or something.
james lindsay
Yeah, I don't remember.
I played Warcraft for a long time.
unidentified
It was 2005.
james lindsay
Me too.
And it might not even have been pirates.
I might be making that part up.
It might have been like, you know, raptors and dinosaurs.
I'm just making that up.
ian crossland
Stranglethorn Vale?
tim pool
Yeah, it could have been Stranglethorn, Booty Bay.
james lindsay
It was Booty Bay, I think.
40-something.
Yeah.
And so anyways, I realized I could be making myself awesome with that time.
And like 30 minutes later, I just kept playing.
It's just the thought crossed my mind.
And like 30 minutes later, I was like, I'm done.
And I've never been able to get into a video game again.
I've tried a few times.
I just literally can't.
ian crossland
Well, I feel similar to what happened to me.
I kind of seeded back into Warcraft 3 in that 2009, but between 2006 and 2009, I just had, I took my Warcraft disc, smashed it, threw it into the sewer.
I was like, I'm done.
I have YouTube and I just went deep on YouTube videos.
tim pool
I've got, uh, I just, I just bought Genshin Impact.
It's actually a really good game, but I just can't get into it because I'm like, I'm just not inspired to level up these abilities.
You know, it's an open world RPG and I'm like, I'd rather just, you know, build Chicken City.
You know what I mean?
ian crossland
Like a real life.
lydia smith
Real life.
unidentified
Yeah.
james lindsay
I actually like- Like chickens are hilarious, dude.
I started turning the circle and training my martial art and meditating in place of video games.
And it was like, wow, I turned off World of Warcraft and I have like so many extra hours a day that I don't even know how to fill them all.
tim pool
All right, we got, um, McChewy says, Diamond hands, my fellow apes.
AMC and GME to the moon.
What's up, Tim and friends?
Keep up the good work, y'all.
My friends, you may notice that we have some merchandise pinned to the chat.
If you go to timcast.com and click shop or click the pinned merchandise above the chat, You can get your very own Diamond Hands gorilla t-shirt.
It is the traditional I am a gorilla shirt, except now he's wearing a suit, holding wads of cash, smoking, got sunglasses on, and he's particularly happy because, you see, he had diamond hands.
He held his stonks until he maxed out his tendies, and now he is reaping the reward, so he's having a good day.
There were a lot of people that were... I can't believe it.
You know the GameStop thing?
People sold at like 50 bucks.
I'm not giving anyone advice.
I'm just giving you my opinion on what happened.
And then it hit like 350.
I don't know what happened today, but it's just been insane.
And I know some people who bought them and they're laughing like it's doubled their money.
This, this, it's a crazy scenario.
unidentified
It's crazy.
james lindsay
I literally, I was on a flight a few weeks ago and I sat next to a literal hedge fund manager and it got upgraded.
I was in first class and I sat next to a literal like hedge fund manager and I was like, what'd you think of that GameStop?
And he's like, I didn't even know about that.
I was like, what in the world?
tim pool
Memes, man.
Meme is mightier than the sword.
Alright, The Civic Nationalist says, James, I use the work you've done to make my arguments against the racist and sexist.
You have done amazing work, but they don't care.
So good idea is greater than bad ideas.
God save the Queen.
Long live Britain.
The sun has not yet set.
james lindsay
No, we're impeaching the Queen now.
tim pool
Impeach the Queen!
That's right.
People are doing it.
People are posting a hashtag.
Hashtag Impeach the Queen, I guess.
It's like a reference to like... The more absurd stories come out, I can just like... I wonder at what point there will be a crisis of historical record on me when they don't know which stories are real stories.
So like, there's a bunch of stories about me.
Which ones are the real ones?
james lindsay
I tried to do that with academic papers.
tim pool
Right, exactly.
ian crossland
Oh yeah, you talked about that in Rogren, you said you published like ten, how many papers?
james lindsay
Seven of them got in, there were twenty that we wrote.
tim pool
Turning Mein Kampf into feminist literature and getting it accepted.
james lindsay
I almost, you know, so Tim's like a journalist or whatever and he was actually at Peter Bogosian's house while we were writing them.
And we had a couple of events in Portland and so we got together in Portland and we were working together and at one point, I mean the famous video when we put out where we're all celebrating and laughing in what appears to be a nice house and Pete's wearing like a suit jacket or whatever.
Like Tim's downstairs and we're like completely forgot he was there and we're celebrating.
But at one point, and I bet you don't remember this, but you might remember this.
We were in Pete's kitchen.
and I had an idea for a paper hit me and that's like I completely forgot that you weren't in on it and I just turned to everybody and like it's like the whole room went weird and I was like oh my god guys gentrified cornbread you were like what and everybody was like You know, stop, stop, stop.
tim pool
Well, you know, I, I take, uh, sources seriously though.
So I wouldn't just like publish private details of somebody.
james lindsay
No, of course, of course.
ian crossland
You infiltrated.
tim pool
You were, we were, uh, we were doing a, uh, what we're doing, we're doing an interview on critical race theory stuff.
james lindsay
Yeah, I couldn't remember if you were there.
This was when James Damore was there, so I couldn't remember if you were connected to that event, or... Yeah.
tim pool
I don't think at the exact same time, but we stuck around.
We drove back and forth, I guess.
james lindsay
That's right, that's right.
tim pool
Yeah, we went to the James Damore thing in Portland.
james lindsay
Yeah.
tim pool
I think it was Portland, right?
james lindsay
Yeah, we hung out a little bit at Pete's house.
tim pool
And then we all argued about universities versus media and stuff.
james lindsay
And turns out we were both right, and of course we were.
tim pool
All right, let's see.
Brandon Beck says, have you seen George Alexopoulos' comic of you, Tim?
It's you feeding your chickens and you get abducted by aliens.
It's really funny.
I love the show.
I do.
It's amazing.
And we completed Chicken City today.
We have two little chicken houses, then two little chicken, like, bungalows.
Yeah, and then one chicken town hall, and we're gonna put addresses on them.
unidentified
Yes!
tim pool
So then, you know, it's like an actual city.
ian crossland
We gave Bucko a little tour.
Let him sniff it out.
tim pool
He was stoked.
He was running around.
james lindsay
Is there gonna be like a squirrel autonomous zone in the middle?
tim pool
Okay.
ian crossland
We'll find out.
unidentified
That sounds great.
tim pool
Maybe.
ian crossland
They can get through the wiring, I think.
unidentified
No.
tim pool
No, I don't think so.
ian crossland
I hope not.
A squirrel might be able to slip through.
tim pool
We have to take it seriously, though, because we're in the middle of nowhere.
There's predators and stuff.
james lindsay
No, that's true.
I mean, yeah, you'll see an uptick in your foxes and hawks.
tim pool
I think it's fine.
I think it's fine.
They have little houses, and we surrounded the whole thing.
It's caged in.
ian crossland
But I don't think the squirrels would attack chickens if they dig down there.
james lindsay
Chickens might attack squirrels.
tim pool
Yeah, the chickens would eat the squirrels.
james lindsay
No, my neighbor has chickens.
They're cool.
lydia smith
Unsettling.
james lindsay
They're cool.
tim pool
So, uh, another question.
Jordan Nick says, great, uh, guys, great work.
Love the show.
Quick question for Ian.
Who's your go-to army for 40k?
You seem like a Tau or Eldar player.
ian crossland
Oh, I love the Eldar man, but Josh picked him first.
I mean, the Harlequin Kiss was so deadly in the early days.
If you, the Distortion Cannon, if it hit any tank, it would just completely, the tank would disappear.
It was so overpowered.
So I always wanted to play Eldar, but since Josh already had my Space Wolves.
I think, I like Tyranids.
I like the psychic worm creature that can control armies of gene stealers.
tim pool
Now I know what it's like for everybody when we mention Magic the Gatherer.
ian crossland
Yeah, you're gonna love 40K.
james lindsay
Tap your swamp.
tim pool
Alright, this one's important for you.
Brian Kluver?
Do you know who that is?
james lindsay
I do.
tim pool
Hey look, it's Jimmy Lindsey.
He and his sibling were raised in the old neighborhood where they were my younger sibling's friends.
He was just a kid down the road.
Hopefully will be known as a modern-day hero.
Keep going, James.
james lindsay
Right on, thanks Brian.
Thanks Brian.
Good to hear from you, man.
tim pool
That's cool, huh?
james lindsay
Yeah.
tim pool
All right, let's see.
Amalashok says, Tim, you hung the picture.
Now I have to fix the leaky toilet.
Told my wife I'd do it when you did.
ian crossland
Thanks.
tim pool
A Pisces and nine of spades.
So yeah, we changed the image behind James because it was the Donald Trump Joe Rogan one.
But now that it's just Biden, I was like, we have two images of Biden eating children, you know?
ian crossland
Oh, okay.
tim pool
Yeah, so behind you it's these eating boom... okay, boomer girl.
lydia smith
That's normal.
tim pool
Not a child.
But then behind James we have Joe Biden just literally being handed a little girl who he eats.
ian crossland
Biden is all over this room.
tim pool
I don't know what George Alexopoulos was thinking when he made the one of Joe Biden just eating the little girl and everyone cheering and giving thumbs up as he does it, but it is one of the greatest pieces of modern art I have ever seen.
james lindsay
Have you seen the meme where they took pictures of him, like, creeping on people's hair and stuff?
unidentified
Uh-huh.
james lindsay
Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, yeah.
lydia smith
Pew over it.
james lindsay
We'll bring him back.
tim pool
Yeah, memes.
ian crossland
I love it.
tim pool
Let's see.
Tim Pauls says, Hey Tim, I always enjoy your show.
I just did a metal cover of Will of the People.
I would be honored if you would check it out.
My channel is just my name.
Tim Pauls.
It almost sounds like the exact same name.
I will look into it.
james lindsay
That sounds nice.
tim pool
Michael Leone says, Been watching since Fukushima.
You do great stuff.
You often mentioned making culture to impact the world.
So Minecraft playthrough when?
Probably never, but Chicken City.
Yeah, did you hear the song that I wrote, Willow People?
unidentified
No, I didn't.
tim pool
I'll have to show it to you later.
Everybody else, you can check it out.
It's an original song, and you'll love it.
It's very, very, very political.
In fact, I think people who are into politics would probably like it more than your average music fan, but I think it's a good song.
I mean, I wrote it.
I have to be proud of myself, I suppose.
ian crossland
You know what would be cool is if we had a Minecraft world of this house.
It might be a security Funk breach type thing where we don't want people knowing the layout of the house necessarily But if people could like walk around your house and they'd be like, oh I get to see what it sees What we'll do is we'll put an iPad on one of those like a big Segway or something and then you can log in and control it.
tim pool
Mm-hmm There used to be they still probably still have these but there was this thing that my brother's friends had where it was a little robot and That could be remote controlled by anyone you give access
unidentified
to.
tim pool
And so this guy gave his friends access to drive the robot around his house.
And it has a camera on it, so you're driving around and you can yell things at people.
And it's just really funny to be this little robot in your friend's house.
And you go like, the dog is running, you're chasing the dog.
Yeah, it's fun. It was a fun little toy.
Alright, let's see.
Woody says, lived in SF and worked for a huge tech company.
Quit after seeing the Critical Race Theory stuff.
JL had been warning about, and now thanks to him and Timcat's crew, I finally moved out of crazy California and never voting Dem or lazy Republican again.
Here's to you all.
Hey, there you go.
lydia smith
Awesome.
tim pool
Oh, hello.
Pablo Martina says, look at the post-millennial article of Sarah Silverman.
She's now claiming to be politically homeless, and that's a former Hollywood elite to respect.
Never been a big fan of Sarah Silverman's kind of humor, shock humor, where she has like really offensive things, but I love the ability that she, I love she has the ability to do it.
And so I absolutely welcome Sarah Silverman in with open arms to whatever group we are in terms of not like politically tribed, but still anti-censorship.
james lindsay
Believing in truth and weird stuff like that.
tim pool
Look, Sarah should be allowed to say all the stupid, crazy jokes that she wants.
james lindsay
I agree.
ian crossland
I got a really good vibe from her in 2007 and just saw, like, she could see through it a little better than a lot of people.
james lindsay
She looks like somebody I actually know in real life, so I get kind of confused.
unidentified
There you go.
tim pool
All right, here you go.
Alan Ortega says, Thomas Sowell was once a Marxist.
When asked what caused him to change, he simply said, replied, facts.
There you go.
james lindsay
I mean, that's how it works.
It's a pseudo reality.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
Ethos Tattoo says, I seen someone post about how much Fox makes of service providers for their channel.
Off service providers?
But I'd love to see how much MSNBC and CNN make of ad revenue when a black man is shot by police.
It's probably high.
They probably get a lot of big boost in ratings.
You can actually Google search the ad rates for all of these cable channels, all these shows.
Brandon Toms says, James Lindsay, the Woke Jedi, the Woke Jedi, excuse me, will bring balance to the Force.
unidentified
Yes.
james lindsay
That's the goal.
tim pool
There you go.
james lindsay
It's like, watch out, you know.
ian crossland
You kind of seem like Qui-Gon.
james lindsay
I didn't know if, like, that was going somewhere weird.
ian crossland
No, he's just a Jedi Master.
tim pool
Well, he said, he adds, thanks for harrowing Woke Hell for the sake of all mankind.
james lindsay
I'll show you all my, my Punggen later.
I showed Lydia my pungent earlier.
lydia smith
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
james lindsay
It was very thick.
unidentified
Oh.
tim pool
Kevin Pilgrim says, this guy is freaking awesome.
Also, I wish Sour Patch Lid sang Yes played every time I accomplished something.
There you go.
lydia smith
It's an achievement sound.
tim pool
We got a lot of really great superchats from people just giving superchats, so I really appreciate those superchats.
james lindsay
I love it.
tim pool
Oh, I know.
I know about the Protosaber.
I think, yeah.
by an intersectional centipede. Also, Tim, you should look up Protosaber." Oh, I know
about the Protosaber. And there was one guy, was it the Hacksmith?
Is that his name? He made a Protosaber. So do you know about Protosabers in Star
Wars? I don't know the technicalities of them. It was like they wore backpacks because they didn't
unidentified
have the power source for the ... For the little handheld?
tim pool
Yeah, exactly.
And so what this dude did was he made a gas-powered plasma... It's, like, it's crazy.
It's... It looks like a lightsaber.
unidentified
Whoa.
tim pool
But it's just, like, a plasma jet, so it, like, cuts through stuff.
james lindsay
Is that the thing that you saw as an ad on in your Instagram?
tim pool
No, it was... That one's just a little torch.
It's a little torch lighter.
It's got, like, a good beam.
It's, like, you can melt metal.
That's cool.
Alright, let's see.
David Hogan says, biggest super chat yet.
Broke warehouse worker from the Chicago Burbs.
Been watching you guys for two years.
You're the best.
Love you guys.
Thoughts on the change to propaganda laws snuck into the NDAA back in Obama's era.
I think that was more about foreign propaganda.
I'm not entirely sure.
I have to reread it.
james lindsay
Yeah, I don't know the law.
tim pool
I think it was something about stuff that was made for American propaganda out overseas could now be allowed to be played here in the U.S.
unidentified
Hmm.
tim pool
Yeah.
I'm not entirely sure.
That's been a while.
james lindsay
I mean, we're definitely inundated in propaganda, and there's some books about propaganda that you should definitely read.
You should also read Edward Bernays' Manufacturing Consent, which is an important essay.
It's like eight pages long.
ian crossland
He's the father of modern propaganda, right, Bernays?
james lindsay
That's correct.
I mean, we're supposed to say public relations, but that's a piece of propaganda in and of itself.
ian crossland
Whoa, it's meta.
james lindsay
Yeah.
tim pool
Infohole says Richard Dawkins developed the concept of a meme out of his contempt for Christianity, but the idea of a meme as a virus that spreads rapidly between minds is oddly useful for leftism.
unidentified
There you go.
james lindsay
Yeah, memes, I mean, the evolution of conceptual or symbolic conceptual things totally makes sense.
And what happens with what we call memes, like taking Joe Biden being a creeper and sticking Pepe Le Pew's face on it?
tim pool
It really fixes like that's genetic material mimetic material combining with one another D Mills says haven't watched the show yet, but just wanted to say Lindsay is an absolute boss I've shared the new discourses podcast on Antonio Gramsci with everyone I know so good a lot of people like that one.
james lindsay
You should check it out Yeah, I laid out Gramsci.
We talked about Gramsci laid out Gramsci And where he came from what he was thinking what his plan was and how it's relevant to today.
It's on new discourses You can check it out All right.
tim pool
Corey Steinfield says, I really love the show and I appreciate the center center left viewpoint.
You guys are awesome.
I'm getting into crypto and I was wondering what your methods of buying and storing crypto were.
Keep up the great work.
Um, I don't think it's probably appropriate to talk about the ways in which we store.
ian crossland
Oh, like what websites?
There's multiple ones you can use.
You can use Coinbase, BlockFi.com is another interesting one.
You can use Binance.
tim pool
You're not storing your crypto if you do that.
ian crossland
Well, someone's storing it.
It's on the blockchain.
You're just using that to get to it.
tim pool
Basically, if you go to any one of these crypto distributors or whatever, and you buy Bitcoin on their website, and just have an account with them, they have the Bitcoin.
Okay?
You just agreed that they owe it to you.
So, if something bad happens, like what happened with Mt.
Gox back in the day, you have no Bitcoin.
ian crossland
Yeah, it's risky, but super convenient to move it around if you leave it on the internet.
tim pool
For the layman, you know, if you're not... Cold storage is more difficult.
ian crossland
If you have a huge amount, get a gorgeous cold storage thing like the Nano X. I have one of those.
And then you can store it locally.
It's still on a blockchain, but you get to it through local keys.
james lindsay
What you need to do is really just make memes.
tim pool
Memes?
james lindsay
Like you put a laser on your crotch and make that your Twitter profile.
You tweet HODL a lot.
You know, you tell everybody that James Lindsay's going to the moon.
I'll take Tim Pool with me.
I think it's the other way around, but we're going to the moon later tonight.
Everybody buy Conceptual Coin.
It doesn't exist, but buy it anyway.
tim pool
We can make it very, very easily.
james lindsay
Manspreading.
tim pool
It is extremely easy to make an ERC20 token.
Ted 2 says the military is implementing a mandatory extremism in the ranks stand down per Secretary of Defense to address extremism in the wake of January 6.
We are being required to watch a two-plus hour speech about white supremacy and its influence.
Look into it on Timcast, please.
I think I did talk about it back when that happened before.
ian crossland
I wonder if that's a new thing.
james lindsay
No, there's a lot going on.
The military has been woke-ifying pretty steadily for a while.
I hear from people at a lot of levels you know from officer to brass to to enlisted and it's like people are they're wokefying the damn thing it's not good it is not good so if that's you you know you got to know the facts for yourself and don't lose your head when you're getting you're not gonna like reject this you're not gonna reject the structure of the military if you're in it so you have to keep your head
tim pool
What's with all the 40k?
ian crossland
Warhammer 40,000.
tim pool
People love that game.
ian crossland
It's such a popular game.
tim pool
Let me read this.
james lindsay
People love games, as I was about to say.
tim pool
So, 20-something Drifter says, Tim, we need a clown block.
We need a death core of Krieg block.
Worst comes to worst, we expose the normies to 40k.
The Emperor wills it, and you shall obey.
ian crossland
Honestly, I bet there's a lot of metaphor between the... There's the Empire, the Imperials, and the Psychic Emperor, who's basically, they have him, like, in a... His body's, like, wasted away after thousands of years, but his psychic energy persists.
Then there's Space Marines, which are, like, genetically altered humans.
I could go on and on.
I don't know too much about it, though.
james lindsay
Tap your swamp.
ian crossland
Yeah, you can always just tap the swamp.
tim pool
There you go.
Tap your swamp.
And then cast Dark Ritual to get three black mana.
And then, you know, cast Phyraxian Negator and get your turn 1, 5, 5.
james lindsay
And then you win.
7, 7, Flying Trample.
ian crossland
That's all I remember.
unidentified
Block with what?
Turn 1, 5, 5?
ian crossland
Lord of the Pit?
james lindsay
Lord of the Pit.
You knew which card I was talking about.
7, 7, Flying Trample is the only thing I remember from Magic.
ian crossland
Biggest baddest card in the early days.
james lindsay
Yeah, like way back.
tim pool
all right uh siri uh siren uh mcgowan probably pronouncing it wrong says i'm a 37 year old skateboarder we look at life from a different perspective than the rest of the world we need little my wife and i pulled our young kids out of school march 2020 we've seen this coming Yes, and if you would like to watch me skateboard, you can search on YouTube for Tim Pool, Nollie Hardflip Rewind, and Hang 10 Hardflip, and my good friend Brett Novak filmed and produced those videos, and they're like some of the best tricks ever on flat ground, trust me.
james lindsay
If you want to see me skateboard, you can download the same video and get one of those deepfake apps and put my face on Tim.
unidentified
Boom!
james lindsay
That's all I got.
tim pool
Alright, let's see.
Aurora Diaz says, any thoughts on unrestricted warfare written by CCP members that calls for the weaponization of everything to destroy the West?
Is there a chance this is just a new kind of warfare utilizing useful idiots in another country to destroy it from within?
james lindsay
It's an old kind of warfare using new tools.
It's political warfare.
It's not new.
We just forgot what it is in the West.
Like I said, the communists assessed this 40 years ago and said that literally the Americans' ability to detect political warfare is so degraded as it may as well not exist.
So, it's an old form of warfare.
It's the political warfare.
It is the most important concept you've never heard of.
It is what we're in the middle of right now.
tim pool
Well, I can say for myself, I have no AMC or GameStop stonks.
I do not.
Do you guys?
I don't.
Not looking for financial advice, but how many people on the show are invested in AMC or GME just out of curiosity?
Well, I can say for myself. I have no AMC or GameStop stonks.
I do not I don't know. Nope. Sorry. We're just not diamond hands
ian crossland
enough I'm so deep in crypto.
james lindsay
I think that that was an important event though.
tim pool
I didn't want to buy those because as like covering the story I didn't want to be a contributor to any like rise or gains and then have a stake in it.
But I do have Nokia because I actually like Nokia.
I used to do a lot of tech work with and I have I would have like every single cell phone and we did some mobile apps and I was doing mobile live streaming.
So when I heard there was a report that came out that Nokia was doing well it is one of the meme stocks but I guess it's not doing well like nobody really cared.
I just like the idea of, you know, having some stock in a tech company and then like reports are saying that Nokia is going to do well, so I own some, but I'm not giving anyone advice.
That was just my opinion on why I did.
james lindsay
Yeah, I don't have any advice at all, except that I think that it's like you, it's like, you know, I comment on this.
I think the GameStop thing was super, super actually symbolically important.
tim pool
Yeah.
Sonny James says they probably can't fund the police in those areas anyway.
Half of the cost I would charge to risk my life for those coward politicians.
CDC issued warning about zombie virus.
When all of them peeps pour out of those starved cities, me thinks.
ian crossland
Did you guys hear about the zombie, the CDC zombie virus?
tim pool
That's like a joke thing they've always had.
ian crossland
Yeah, but I was thinking today, we were talking about earlier, me and Adam were on his show, about how Hitler framed the Jewish population as rats.
And if we get to a situation where people are so homeless and destitute that they start to roam the streets in desperation and start eating other humans' dead bodies, like cannibalizing.
Dude, this is like some of the best left-wing crud that I still have.
Like, nobody believes me.
are desensitized to it because of propaganda like that.
james lindsay
Dude, this is like some of the best left-wing crowd that I still have.
Nobody believes me.
I used to see, like I never really watched TV, but my friends were all into The Walking
Dead and I was like, this is a bad metaphor.
Every right-winger is into killing zombies big time and seeing them everywhere.
This is not good.
I was a little afraid that The Walking Dead was propaganda for right-wingers to start thinking of leftists and zombies.
No dehumanization is good.
Don't do it.
tim pool
I agree.
All right, we'll do a couple more Super Chats.
We got one from Jason Hopper.
He says, Diamond Hands Gorilla in pillow form and Harumph.
I'll buy both.
All right, I will get those graphics transferred over to pillows and make them available for everybody.
james lindsay
It is our Gorillo.
tim pool
So that's the mock-up, our pillow, the graphic.
But then you see the burlap sack over there?
james lindsay
Yeah.
tim pool
That's the official prototype.
james lindsay
Oh, that's the real one.
tim pool
Yeah, we're doing a commercial where we're legit gonna buy airtime on TV.
james lindsay
Oh, no kidding.
tim pool
It depends on if we can get it timed properly.
So we're working on it, we are.
And we want to do it at a specific strategic political moment.
I'll just leave it at that.
And I've already talked to Fox about it.
james lindsay
I told him on Twitter that if he doesn't make one the size of those beanbags, like huge beanbags that you can use as a bed, and call it the Hogzilla, that it's not real.
Like he's not committed until that happens.
tim pool
Alright, Luminescent says, Hi Tim, good podcast.
Any news when Laowai and Serpentsa will appear here?
lydia smith
They are concerned about COVID.
That's their main hold up right now, but we are going to make it happen.
tim pool
But, but, but everything's reopened.
lydia smith
Not everything.
unidentified
Yeah.
lydia smith
I mean, I'll follow up with them.
unidentified
Okay.
james lindsay
Lao Lai is really good though.
Yeah.
tim pool
That'd be cool.
james lindsay
He's really good.
tim pool
Alright, let's see.
I think maybe we can grab one more.
L says, great show.
James, you are brave and please know you are in my family's nightly prayers.
How do you see this critical race theory thing ending?
I've seen you mention bullets.
james lindsay
Scary stuff.
I don't have, I mean, like, it matters a lot on if I'm black billed at the moment you ask me that question.
If people will actually do, like we've just said on the show repeatedly, which is start saying it's ridiculous, start speaking plainly and truthfully about it, start showing up and using what's left of the institutional mechanisms, because a lot of the institutions are not dead.
A lot of the institutions are filled with people, and I know because I just spoke with some in the last two days, that just don't know what it is.
I have no idea.
I'm talking about legislative bodies.
I'm talking about school boards.
They have no idea that this is what's actually happening.
If you start informing these people, this is like the Hail Mary, then there's a way out of this where, in fact, it all can almost evaporate, as I think Helen put in Cynical Theories, as like a puff of its own contradictions or something like that.
But if it continues to take over more and more and more institutions, the ways out are very slim, and I don't advocate bullets.
It's a terrible thing.
That is the worst thing ever.
When I say that, what I'm actually thinking is that the United States is not a country that is likely to go the route of peasant societies like China was in the 60s, or like Russia was in 1917.
They're not likely to just kind of go along with this and fall into it, or Germany was in the 1930s.
it's likely that there will be fighting back, and that's a worst-case scenario short of just
outright losing, in my opinion. So start speaking up and speaking honestly, and the way out of this
works out by just speaking the truth and pointing out this is not what it purports to be. It is
reinventing racism. Nobody wants this. And start telling other people that in plain, easy language,
and you can actually convert people into understanding this.
And then it's like, we're not beholden to just sleepwalk off a cliff here. That's
so important.
tim pool
Right on.
All right, everybody.
Thank y'all so much for hanging out.
Smash the like button, because it really does help.
And if you're listening on iTunes, Spotify, or other podcast platforms, leave us a good review.
Give us all those stars, because it helps.
It really does.
And if you really love the show and you're a big fan, you gotta share it.
That's really the only way these shows grow.
You know, I guess marketing campaigns don't really work.
You got to just have good word of mouth.
So we appreciate it.
You can follow me on all social media platforms at Timcast.
If you follow me on Twitter, you'll probably be confused half the time because it's meant to be a chaotic garbled nonsense mess for fun.
And I wonder how long until no one takes anything I post on Twitter seriously, which is kind of the point.
But my other YouTube channels are YouTube.com slash Timcast, YouTube.com slash Timcast News.
This show is live Monday through Friday at 8 p.m.
So we'll be back on Monday.
But I mean it this time.
We are going to have a special exclusive episode.
It's not going to be a podcast.
It's going to be the Chicken City.
Okay.
Okay.
Now the Chicken City is built, but it's an issue of whether or not we can actually get the chickens because a lot of places are saying it's not quite chicken time yet.
But if you want younger chickens, you can have them, and I think maybe we'll just get some, you know, we'll figure it out.
I want to make sure we do it properly for the sake of the chickens and their well-being, and I want to be able to film it when we do, so we might, I'm hoping that we'll be able to actually procure some chickens tomorrow and film the process and show you our little chicken village.
It's not very big.
And that will be bonus content available at timcast.com.
So we're really hoping with TimCast.com to do more than just podcast shows.
So if you're a member, there will eventually start being more stuff.
There will be, you know, training videos on the range.
Maybe Luke can do some, you know, drills, or he can talk about Airsoft and other things like that.
And we could just have some experts talk about some fun stuff.
But that's all available over there, so greatly appreciated when you sign up.
James, you want to shout out anything?
james lindsay
I mean, you can follow me on pretty much all social media at ConceptualJames, or you can follow my outlet, New Discourses, at New Discourses.
It's on most, if not all, of the platforms.
YouTube channel has all the podcasts.
It's also on the other podcasting stuff.
You want to check that out.
That's the main thing I'm kind of doing.
If you subscribe, even at like low levels, if you subscribe at all to any of the subscriber things that I have through New Discourses, then you have access to a second podcast I do for subscribers only that I call James Lindsay Only Subs.
I usually don't script those.
I just try to talk like man-to-mic, man-to-you, and connect.
So different, shorter form, more personal content.
So I'm going to try to, in fact, get into some advice-giving and personal content on there, too.
So go sign up at New Discourses on any of the platforms that you like and get into that.
tim pool
Cool.
ian crossland
You guys can also follow me at iancrossland.net if you want to check out my social stuff.
James, really cool to meet you, man.
james lindsay
Good talk.
Heck yeah.
ian crossland
I was on Adam Krigler's show earlier, AdamCast, so if you want to go to youtube.com slash AdamCastIRL and check out that episode, I would highly recommend.
And thanks for having me, everybody.
lydia smith
Very cool.
And I am Sour Patch Lids on Twitter and Vines, and I am Real Sour Patch Lids on Gab and Instagram if you guys want to follow me there.
I'm so excited for the chickens.
I cannot wait.
Hopefully we get little ones that are still fluffy.
tim pool
Fingers crossed because we keep saying we're going to have some weekend content.
We're going to have some weekend content.
We're going to go to the range and then some, you know, something just falls through.
But I think tomorrow we're going to film getting these chickens and then we will have a special Chicken City episode at TimCast.com.
Thanks for hanging out, everybody.
We'll see y'all then, I suppose.
lydia smith
Yep.
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